And now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah. These be the cheetah and learn your animal, isn't the cheetah, but the far less appealing blobfish, Come on to add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance, and now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, these be the cheetah and learn your animal, isn't the cheetah, but the far less appealing blobfish

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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening. This is your host Dan ASCII for the program. True murder, the most fucking killers and true crime, history and the authors have written about them. America,

sniper is the astonishing auto. By now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, please be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah but the far less appealing blobfish come on to add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent, or more on motorcycle insurance, biography of sealed Chief Chris Kyle, who is the record holder for most kills for a sniper in US military history call It has more than one hundred and fifty officially confirmed, kills american record, was one hundred and nine through his remote career total, has though his remarkable career total, has not been made official by the Pentagon. In this

New York Times best selling Memoir Kyle shares the true story of an extraordinary decade. Long career, including Multiple combat tours in Iraq. Operation iraqi freedom, and else from nineteen. Ninety nine to two thousand and nine Kyle's riveting first person account of how we went from Texas, rodeo cowboy to expert. Marksman and feared assassin offers fascinating view of modern day warfare and one of the most in depth and illuminating looks into the secret world the special ops ever written the book they were. Featuring this evening is american sniper the autobiography of the most lethal sniper in US military history with special guest author, Jim Defelice. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing this interview. Jim Dee Felice thanks a lot Dan. It's a pleasure to be here Oh it's my pleasure. This is a quite a unique book even for this program, where we have our share of unique books. So this is fascinating.

No more of a pretty fascinating guy. So congratulations, first off give us a little bit of your background gym because it's be interesting to know how You came to this story and Teleserye. How you came to be able to be the author of this american sniper why you wanted to do it, how you came to be involved with this. Tell us a little bit about your background and that story. How you came to write american sniper even though primarily known as a novelist. I have actually done number of non fiction books and helped helped a couple of celebrities write their memoirs until

though, it never helped a military person? Actually right, I mean more, but I was very interested in you know getting that opportunity and it happens it of the publisher. Excuse me, my publishers, Collins, was interested in had heard about Chris and Approach Chris about about doing a book, and when he indicated that he was interested, they contacted me and said: hey we that you've been looking for yeah. We know you've been looking for a really good topic, a really good subject. Would you be interested in? talking to the seal at the time. They didn't really know all that much about Chris and they knew that he had the record or was was talked about as having the record of of kills within really know all that much about him. So

they kind of they gave him. Actually, they gave his lawyer my phone number, and Chris and I had a conversation on the phone and I still, Remember it because we, I said Chris, why you know why do you? Why do you? tell your story. Why is why do you want to write a book, and he said I want to honor the people I serve. Listen and I want to help the families of the two guys who I couldn't save, and I said you know that's a that's a hell of a good reason to write a book, you have a really good reason to write a book and anything from that moment on. I was, I was hope, and I would have you know. I knew it. I knew was gonna, be great book. Now give us a little bit of the background here we're talking about Texas here in terms of where he was born and raised and and

for the record to where are you originally from and how much directions. You have the sort of this kind of of lifestyle that he or the their upbringing that he had in Texas itself, but tell us then about a little bit about where he grew up specifically in Texas? sure you know it's. It's kind of an amazing thing because I'm how much my accent gives me away, but I'm in New York have a new York City, great hello, although it I don't, we live now. We live outside the city Chris was Chris was a good old boy. Chris was Texas, born and bred and raised, and except while he was in the Navy and a seal, has had lived all his life in Texas and still had quite a lot of the Texas twang in them and went to what to

the lying? You know just kind of serve that heritage. He had two kids and when each of one of them was born, he was happened to be stationed out California, and that's where I obviously they had the. But he had his father ship him a little Box of Texas Dirt. So that when each one of his children was born, there first thing that their feet stepped on was Texas, dirt and. So he was very much very much of your texas character. He in high school, he started riding rodeo. He went through a lot of different events and eventually got pretty good at busting Brock. And what a whole bunch of a whole bunch of belts, which is you know, kind of the the price that you win when you're right now in the on the

circuit and a lot of he couldn't couldn't survive on that for a long time. But it kept him in pure money through the first couple of years in college and eventually he. When he got out of college, ecology became a cowboy, he loves? He loves the life they just loved it to death, but you can't get rich, he rich being a cowboy eventually eventually, decided he wanted to do something else, and he had all. Always wanted to be It actually always wanted to be a marine, and so he went one day to the recruiting office. And the marine recruiter happened to be out for lunch and He was still and kind of went to the door, doors, close real life, you guys out for lunch, and you made a. U turn was on his way out of the building in the he heard a voice say: hey, hey boy, son could come here, come over here,

So what do you? What are you doing? What are you trying to sign up for and crystal in Iowa be a marine, and you know it, tell them. Why and the crew said well, you know I'm with the Navy ever hear the seals, and from that little short brief conversation. Whole career was born. Tell us a little bit about the relationship that he had with his family growing up what kind. Family life he really had and Initially he had like a lot of people in Texas, a lot of people in general. I have hunting in terms of experience when they're young, how important was hunting and how important was hunting with the family that he grew up with in Texas yeah. I think that was just as you say that we are really a formative experience for him. He And his dad

very early age, his dad took him out color to learn how to hunt showed him and his he is he's. Chris has a younger brother a few years younger, both of them. We're taught from a very early age, to respect, respect guns to also respect haunting. They would not. Basically they to eat anything that killed. So you know whether it was when they were little. A squirrel they'd have squirrel stew and more often think it got a little older hunting, deer and other other sorts of animals. He was Chris,

was a fairly decent shot from a young age, but not necessarily, you know a champion, but he he grew up around around guns and you know just the outdoor life and he really like those he liked the life and they like the skills that he developed as a young man. When was the born what year was he born boy? You know I've been I've actually off the top of my head. I can't remember, I have to look well will say roughly, so he was born roughly in the in the 70s. He was still a young man why he, when he died, see got me then. So you know I just want to have a context because we're going to be talking about Iraq, but we're also going to be talking about obviously

Well, the question I want to ask was growing up and, with his family's back ground. Was there any military background and. In terms of a teenager, having an attitude and, and certainly Chris had one What was is what This is earliest opinion of a war. I think that you know, I think that here this wasn't particularly philosophical about a lot of things he's very patriotic. He you very much believed in America. And he he. Also one thing that was very important for him: growing up was to stand up for other people. He he was He was the epitome of the older brother. His younger brother was, I think, three or four years younger than him and

There's a lot of stories yell among not only Chris but among Chriss brothers, friends about you know how Chris you know, it's still had stood up for younger kids and small, kids were being picked on the really had kind of that protective gene almost in in when it when he was a kid. I think when he got into the the reason that he got into the military was a combination of patriotism, also and also adventure. I think, like a lot of young men yeah, he wanted. He I only want to serve his country, but he also wanted to kind of put himself

It is often kind of an action type. You know situation and deal custom self in different ways, and you know, being a seal was in a lot of ways the ultimate the ultimate test, for you know for young man, specially one that is not only patriotic but is kind of thinks of themselves, as of is kind of a tough fight later, and that are that kind of person. Right right now tell us where tea fits in here in terms of time Timeline in terms of when did he need to, and is that the way turn on the tea or yeah absolutely tears his wife, and Actually they met? They met in the 90s when shortly after Chris had had qualified to become,

Maciel and was still still, though, is training. Seals have a we seal! Someone who you know has passed the basic requirements and bugs and and gone through the regular courses and and now they're becoming seal will to this. To the seals, that's just kind of the first of the first wrong. You now have to go through all this training improve yourself before the other people in the tea on the teams will really accept you as a as a seal. And Chris was in that stage where he had passed through kind of the preliminary. All preliminaries and the world calls in the sealed still trying to prove himself to the you know to the team's soar to this to feel some self and they were in. This was in San, Diego and tae up there one night,

came down with a friend and met him or with he. Hang out in the bar and basically, depending on which one of them is telling the story either she picked him up or he picked her up and they started joking and drinking and joking To queen at the end of the night she had drunk some much, unfortunately, she threw up and well still called through the next. I think it was the next day we still cold there. She knew that it must be true, love, sure, yeah, interesting, yeah, so she was. She was obviously understanding how passionate he was about the Terry and and especially or specifically, the seals as well, and did she understand and or he explained, or did she somehow have uh.

Some military history herself and within your family, how did she come to accept? everything that she felt she needed to accept in Bring up with Chris Kyle is a really a process in a long process. I don't think that. First of all, I don't think that anyone completely understands what it means to deploy into a combat situation. If you for a the soldier of that you know. That's going there before you've, actually done it or be the you know, the spouse or the kids. You know of the of the family. It's one thing to read a book about, added or see a movie about it or even hear somebody- that's been there and quite another thing to actually emotionally experience it and at the point when they met not only had had neither Chris nor Tea Head head deployment or been through a deployment

And I think that Chris was still learning what it meant to be a seal and and pay. It was at that point anyway, learning what it meant to me how to be in love with the feel, and I think it was like a little. You know. A long process that was in this mood within the soul is smooth road. We talk a little bit about actually thought a lot about about, because some of the trials and tribulations that they went through through it in the book now with this. What is the again? What is the timeline in terms of the Iraq, war and the spring of two. One thousand and three. And the initiative by the United States and tea, and their first So we can get a of an idea. Yeah Chris Chris and Taya Meet in their relationship starts

sing, hot and heavy right before nine hundred and eleven as a matter of fact, on the morning of nine hundred and eleven, they they wake up and they find that the towers that have been struck and Chris we have a funny story in the book of Chris basically Places to his base to report to the base gets pulled over by by one of the local policemen who and Chris being Chris was always. No matter what the situation was no matter how much stress he was. He was always respectful, ease cops as a police officer came up and Chris said, Also, I know you got to give me a ticket. Go hey, give me the ticket, but I got to get to the base in the the cop. Looked in the back in so give source gear and realized he was his military, and so the cop said. Well, you know what your unit and Chris said he was

the cops at all right up. Follow me on my copy. It meant escort not quite as fast as Chris have been going up to the base, but we're pretty fast as it happened. Chris was not actually needed to the uh to go to Afghanistan. After nine hundred and eleven, But he started training up to go to to Iraq as the build up for Iraq happened Chris and married in that same time period and they actually have their as a worked out both of their children right before deployments. That Chris Chris went. Which I'm sure was extremely stressful for for both of them, but Specially for tea, she was left the first time. You know she was a first time mother with you know

a newborn and her husband. Suddenly you know her husband was there one day and then the next day was off on the uh side of the world being shot at so it was an extremely extremely stressful experience. Experience should should note that you know the wives at ones of service people, literally hundreds of thousands of service people have gone through. It's just that. We don't. You know, we don't necessarily think about. You know about that side of the equation. Sometimes now you talk about the the sun being just as he's being deployed to Iraq is that correct or Afghanistan, no. Actually it's a rack that all the to all the plans of the book or Iraq. Okay, now with with his deployment. Now, how will be

We kind of skipped over some real important stuff number one we're not I we don't know, but our audience certainly doesn't know about what really are seal means in terms of what is there, purpose in the military. You know, secretive, but tell us a little bit about the seals and how does he rise to the. Into the level that he is one of these again assassin's these a sniper. How does, that happened. You said he was really a marksman when he was young. How does he get to this point and and and how is the weather? They picked him sure. Let's look, let's just lysis hit on like kind of a common. This misconception. First, a lot of people when, when we use the word sniper a lot of people think of you know kind of a person stalking a high value targets, so to speak for for days and days and days, and while that certainly is

occasionally done in contemporary military, the The role slippers on the battlefield has you know, as as everything else is involved and in american military and actually in every pretty much most western I'll, make a blanket statement say every other western military. I may I may possibly be missing somebody, but most militaries use with snipers or really good marks. Two in situations where they need to be able to not kill civilians and they need, decision. They want to have precision. Shots where there's potentially people around, who may get hurt and

until the ability and the equipment to be able to to strike a combatant or an enemy at a thousand yards comes kind of a premium in a war, especially in a place like Iraq, we're all of the time you had. You had civilians all over the place. So it is kind of a misconception, and I think that you know that I saw shared it before you the before, and not not really knowing you know anything about the contemporary tactics and strategy Is- and the word sniper you know sounds sounds really cool, but the the odd thing is that it come out of a whole whole movement to reduce collateral damage and injuries. What have with Chris, the seals in american american military? The seals are

are elite special operations unit that are there trained to operate on the sea. In the air and on the land, which is where there, the all that nickname seals comes from the there are. A number of teams there signed in you know from different places, and you can think of them is the kind of the Navy equipment to. Equivalent excuse me to other special operations units like the the American Express

forces or rangers or the year commandos each have a slightly different, slightly different mission and and somewhat different training, but they're all kind of the lead. You know lead units in Iraq, the seals reduced initially for in the initial invasion, and Chris was part of the to seize the oil fields that they were afraid that Saddam would blow up and pollute the golf with, as he had done in the First Gulf WAR, so Chris and the seal team- and he was part of- were signed just at the very start of the ground war to go in and take over a an oil to

and basically protect it from you know, from an ecological disaster, and that was really his first initiation. He was a young man and your kind of the young man on the the low guy on the totem pole for for want of a better word metaphor, and even though he was in an elite unit is a proven himself. You know one of the best. Soldiers around. He still had to prove himself to to that. To that team he was a quote unquote new guy and that was kind of his first introduction into combat there. He served he served

Iraq, for I forget exactly how long the deployment is several he's there actually only in combat for a few months and then when he came back, he had proven himself to the point where he was recommended for sniper school and from there he was trained. You know to be a sniper. Marksman ship is certainly at absolutely critical and important and Chris I have to tell you chris- was a hell of a shot, although he he always claimed that he was, and he always said he is just a good shot. I've shot with him he's. It was incredible shot believe me, but I guess I take his word for it that there were guys over that were better, but he. He was, besides being a really really good shot on the rifle. He was extremely patient and he had this,

sort of skills that are necessary for snipers today and that includes being able to go out the field to be able to scout different areas, but also to you dissipate where you know where an enemy would be baking an attack. Again, you know, as I was saying before, you know, we think of snipers as people in the Michaels well in Iraq. Much of the action, probably ninety percent of the action the sniper saw were in urban situations and the snipers who were in Iraq had to you know, learn to interpret, feel kind of urban areas and we're you know we're the He would be coming from now. You say you're, not quite a few months is a typical deployment

well son is born Son is born and he doesn't get a chance to bond with his son. Obviously, despite photos- and I guess knowing get in contact with his wife constantly with tea, tell us what his uh it was like when it come back from the deployment crisis. Is you know it's pretty tough? It is tough. The I think the we're one of the weirdest things about modern combat is that you were in a calm, that situation one on Thursday, People are shooting at you and on Saturday, you're driving down the street of you know. Wherever it is, you live San, Diego or wherever your going home and got that

got to be a heck of a I've, never had to make that transition myself, but it? I would imagine that it's very, very strange Chris would typically spend a couple weeks really kind of just try to decompressing and and for him that basically meant staying in the house. And just kind of you know, just not seeing anybody or or seeing very few people and just kind of just getting used do not being enough being shot at the seals. Everybody that was in Iraq obviously was to some degree or another in danger, as a seals mission typically was to go out and find the people who are play, bombs, planting ie DS, who are carrying out assassinations generally against Iraqis and

you know, so they were always there always in danger. So I think if it was, you know, like kind of jumping off of a freight train, that's moving into one hundred and ten miles an hour and and now you know now- you have to learn to walk again. How is his it's faring from well- you know one itself and then the adjustment itself yeah. Well, you know what's up and down it's a lot of. It was a huge. Huge amount of stress having a kid is. A lot of you know is a huge amount of stress period, but for a war in there, you and everything else, and it's incredible they went up and down at at times times in their words, you know, is blissful and then at other times you know there. I think both both of them were ready to throw in the towel. We talk about.

We we were the most emotional things for me, working on the book with very early on when we were working Chris I remember we we conducted. A lot of the interviews. We did a lot of you know a lot of interviews in person. Obviously we spend a lot lot of time together Chris and take came up and stayed with with myself and my family up here and I went down and stayed with them and one of the one I think first time that we really spent a lot of time together. We actually were at a ranch- and it was a friend of Chris is now friend of mine and I just remember- I think it was the first breakfast we had were sitting around in tea- who is a great cook by the way had made us bro.

And we just started talking and they start talking about their marriage, and they were talking for some reason about. You know some hard times they had It was just an incredibly emotional experience the to hear these people just pouring you don't just your saying. You know how difficult it had been for them to keep to stay together and we are just hey it's talking about. You know the struggles that she had and you know and and Chris talking about how how difficult it had been for him to go to adjust to coming back to to America and the. One time that that stands out. We go into a lot of detail about this in the in the book Interamerican sniper, but one time that stands out for me, I'm their son had been was growing. It's a it just came to the conclusion that

He was really going to need yeah. You need a strong male figure. You know growing up in, and she told Chris is that, because his isn't listed, It was coming up that if he was going to reenlist, she wasn't going to leave the marriage soon was going to walk out, but she's going to move from their home in San Diego up to go to be with her parents to be closer to her parents, because this way at least that her son, her son, would have their grand father's

It was a male figure, and I think that was a really important moment for Chris. I think the Chris realized that the other he had he had to make a decision, the walls he wasn't necessarily going to lose his wife and and family. I think that inside he realized that he had to decide. You know between the job that he had always wanted and and loved and the families he had always wanted and loved. And you know you chose love features. His kids and his wife, and you know I think about it some days you know, I'm not sure if I had the same choice, what I choose between my career and the all my family- I don't know you know it's a it's a tough choice for all of us. I think right now, the

He's working with the the polish Grom or the NCO in in in iraq- and it was interesting too, is that you also talk about well. He oxygen in the memoir an and, of course, you. Make it come alive in that? What happens is that they are also providing cover for advancement and clearing of building. So there's a lot of that sort of activity. Right the seals as well as dinner right, yeah well. First of all I gotta say so. I have to give the Grama real plugs, sir they're great guys and They owe me some drinks too, so hopefully their own vodka. Well, I'm not going to drink any of us, because it's a three because they there their stuff is just crazy. These with those guys, I'm not going to the Chris, couldn't keep up with them drinking, so I'm not going to even try, but they were actually Chris.

Today I went over, I could couldn't make it to Chris and Taya went over when the book came out, we've been translated into many different languages and the pole- the ground especially, were exceptional host, and I work very closely with the the polish translator, who was out at really an excellent guy, and so I can't say enough about about help hospitable those people they were yes, the the job that the the Graham we are. We should explain the ground or is the whole issue kind of kind of the polish equivalent of seals, their yachts in a live very elite. Special forces

And like the seals, what they were often assigned to do would be to find a weather is the bomb maker or some other someone who is suspected of being a terrorist leader. They would go to and they would go to his house and make the arrest- and you know, break him in. Sometimes it went off without a hitch that would come there in the middle of the night, knock on the door and door would open and they say you know, are you so options are actually interpreted would say, are you such and such and say? Yes, ok! Well, you have to come with us blah blah blah and there would be no problem more.

Austin would be locked, and you know- and you didn't really know what what was going to happen you know inside and that was Chris. Chris went on quite a number of those missions, basically because he had been trained besides training as a sniper. He is a trained as a navigator and was able to handle the special equipment that the the crime needed to use to get around it wherever they were at no. He goes for this is for deployments, but it's interesting. What happens between the third and the fourth deployment in terms of I think I believe it's the other child and and tell us a lot a bit about the leukemia scare. Well, Chris, is daughter, was born. She the

Is there a number of ailments and without going into all the technicalities, unfortunately, the She had to be hospitalized and the initial sets of reports look very, very bad. So much so that I think that you know without getting going to go into deep into their kind of personal lives here, but I think that tea probably thought that she was with good reason that her daughter was going to die and look like she had leukemia and other complications. At the same time, Chris had been under quite a lot of stress and strain, and you know, and then on the job, and I think he

God, when he learns, that is, that is daughter, was still suffering with leukemia and that the doctors at that point were saying. The other prognosis did not look very good. He went to see- and you know it says basically explain what was going on and see Otis Credit just arrange very quickly for with the help. I think I believe the Red Cross to just get Chris home and he was he was home with it and deal with them. Well he's on his way within hours. I forget, but it took two thousand four hundred and thirty six hours for him to get there. Fortunately in, thank God the she. Her condition was was difficult, but it was not anywhere near as dire as some of the tests had initially showed and

were able to. I don't know, all the the medications and stuff they were able to to to deal with the problem and turned out. She didn't have leukemia that that tests had been incorrect and fortunately, and so she yeah, thank God today, is really really healthy and great little kid, no you mentioned God. Then this is another part. That's interesting too. As a you know, the complexity of Chris Kyle is that he was what he would call Kerry categorized as a devout Christian to listen. Little bit how he came to terms with what some people might see a conflict shooting people and a strong christian background? How did he. How did he come to terms with that sure? explain. That rational is that. I think that. Well, I think the first thing to

understand about that with Chris is to understand that for Chris. What his job as a as a soldier was was to protect his people and to predict by his p, Bull is protecting not only the people on his team, the his fellow seals, but in his case specifically, he was protecting iraqi civilians and I he didn't see he did not see a a conflict in the only killing the enemy she the things that he lamented that the the deep sorrow he had after the war were for the people that he couldn't protect. The two men who served you know next to him who died will wonder

in the war and one from loans later on, and you know in different different Americans who you know who not through any literal fault of his, but you know, died in you know, died in combat or died because of you know it so that were placed her or what have you Chris did have. Chris incidently did have the muslim friends this summer, for them, I've just finished a book on one of the men who was a really good friend Chris, who is a Muslim soon, the muscle, but in in terms of religion. Chris consider himself, as you say, a devout christian. He had been brought up, as you know, as a as a Christian is five.

There had been, I believe it Deacon and the church how Lady get and you believed in the Bible he would Chris would have been the first to tell you that he he committed a lot of sins in there and

but he did not see. You know he didn't see up big of the conflict with war and I think you're historically, that has been. You know something that you know: religions, especially the christian religion, when you're, catholic or protestant have you dealt with over and over. You know again over the ages. You know what the what is the just war where when should someone, you know defend other people? When should you know he four or she fight and Chris wasn't particularly philosophical, and I don't think I think it was a fairly. I was fairly black and white question for him. He you know his values were God, country and family.

And you know if his country needed him to chill to to go to war that he was ready to go to war. There is a story, those that really shows how action. And he was as opposed to one not of to them to the say compared to even follow seal members. If I ever have this guy's name right, Dick couch for former Vietnam Guy now there was a So just illustrate part of the part of the book I found very fascinating was this little conversation that he has why, Dick is great guy, great guy. You know Chris, don't take to stick Dick As you as you point out, Cecile and veteran, and a very good writer,

it happened that there was he was working on. He was working on a book and I had a discussion. I guess got into a discussion with some other seals and Chris thought. The Chris sat at different different opinion, I think than than take on things and kind of let him know about it, but I don't think either. I also got a man that was necessarily a really big moment their lives. Well, it was just that he's very passionate about the into somebody. This you know Dick was criticizing what they were doing. King in Iraq as opposed to not to disobey. In Vietnam, but he was saying that they were wrong, headed in this and, I think, respected, very personal yeah. I think, to to to step back just a little

I think a lot of the older. I think this the older generation seals, especially but a lot of Vietnam Veterans is have kind of a certain idea of how how's the seals be deployed and what sort of mission they should be on and where they should be used and urban warfare and the way that the seals were being used in different places. It doesn't fit,

that model the in the battle Seleucia, for instance, the seals we used the as long distance, snipers in in urban warfare, which is absolutely not a traditional special operations role, and I see that a lot of the the younger guys or say this is the use us, because you know we've been trained, we're we're good. We can do this yeah. Maybe this isn't the mission that you know you had played, and thirty years ago or twenty years ago, but it's something we can excel at and they have the record to back it up, The older guys see a lot of the pitfalls of that strategy, and you know, and they have a different, take.

In the case that we're talking about specifically at the battle of Ramadi the at that at the time, the a philosophy that was being used was kind of Then a for sale. I would end up taking sides by by talking about here, but the philosophy that was was being used. Was this kind of they'll give them candy approach and yell make nice and and then you can you it will build. The country and Chris didn't Kristen believe in that Chris Chris is Chris. This point of view, the only reason that the that the terrace lost in ramadi- and they did was because not just the largest seals for the american forces.

When, after the bad guys and Hield the end beat them in? You know in you know, in a very, very fierce, still fierce battles and the discussion that specifically you're referencing there has to do with you know with that approach in which which approach you should know you should take- and I think you know it's chris- was. Pretty forceful in his opinions, as he always was. So how is there a certain amount of the left? People read the I guess read the book, so they can make their own judgments yeah. He did. He did say. Something to the effect to. That was certain factors that only could appreciate that kind of approach. The there's no again being nice with approach they really only because there was certain factions that we could go either way. They were looking for not terms of leadership losing to come out on top.

Yeah exactly and obviously I have an opinion here. In my opinion, you know shades a lot. If there's two extremes you and Chris, is on one side and yeah. I don't necessarily know that I know I read Dick spoke Dick. Go in the battle of Ramadi is excellent. I would highly recommend it to anyone and say you know it's a must read. I think, My conception, though, of how why that battle was was one, is a heck of a lot closer to to is you know, then at least what the you know, what some of the people in the x books. But you know, of course, your history. Really it's it's really for history to your details. In years. By for years to come rather fusing now the. Cnn and Chris,

their marriage survives, have two children tell us about the last deployment. And then the return back from duty yeah, the last deployment- was it it's funny 'cause in some ways. By that time, Chris had had little we become a legend and the some of his some of his buddies. It's are using that as a nickname is his fame started growing, but but really by the by is forced to climb in Iraq, for the fourth deployment that we talked about, he was truly a legend and be had we say he had over a hundred fifty kills by that we mean confirmed, kills that were recorded and and done on the gun, the reality is that he had actually, if you through another one hundred on top of that number, you still would be under how many he had an

people knew he was good. He was highly respected and you know UN in looked up to and and and the person, the guy that you wanted. On the other hand, it. She was also starting to get under a lot of pressure. He be what they call the the the temple of the operations had increased some so dramatically as they were fighting, And they started getting into situations where, There were where they were getting shot at quite a lot every night and pressure just started. I think just started building up and at the same time, Unfortunately, sometimes when you're in you know, when your a situation like that, don't necessarily take the best care of your body. You don't necessarily eat right. If you have habits

Jose like chewing, tobacco may start chewing a lot of tobacco and drinking a lot of coffee and all of a sudden, your heart rate starts getting way up there yeah. So you have all these physical things going on and stresses. And they eventually got got to the point with Chris we're his His blood pressure and his his heart rate we're, well beyond the normal and he was eventually eventually requested to or was was to go. He left he leaves he early about a week early. They were actually in combat at the time, but it's clear that you know that the stress was, he was getting to him physically, and so he goes home and

stop to so much tobacco, among other things as well. He had that habit of you when you choose, I don't know if your tobacco sure, but you know theory You know spit it out. Well, Christy Chris, never spit his children to background. So he would go through these big wads is is basically You know tons of tobacco and you're wondering why you're wondering about your blood we get the stress. Yeah? It's amazing now what point the author. That is, I thought this impressive ease off the naval special Fair sniper doctrine in which is, you say, is the first Navy Seal sniper manual. Well yeah. Well, The one thing we should should note. I guess, like from a historical point of view, is that until very recently, actually until

just before Chris became a sniper, the seals use. The marine, the sniper school exclusively. And they change that they wanted to emphasize a few things differently, but a lot of a lot of seal sniper doctrine, pretty much can be traced from the from the reason, if you talk to some of the older some the older, snipers, you know, you'll all day went shell. They all went to. They all went to Marine Scully, Craig Sawyer from from top gun. He he's he was the seal sniper, but he was trained by the Marines.

So that's why that's why there was no official, so they were using all the marine documents and Stuff Chris did that Chris put that together after he came back from from that deployment from the fourth That is basically a manual to my knowledge is the obviously the other specifics are still top secret, but to my knowledge is still, you know, use pretty much what he laid out for and I'm not sure we mentioned it already, but why mentioning any one: two silver stars: five bronze medals and one Navy and marine condemnation, commendation such not that that's he was there, for he was, you know, do you know where those panels were actually his wife, his wife put one or two,

up on the wall in a I'm, not kidding issue but honestly got shoe box at the bottom of his death, Yeah he said he wasn't really to enter tested in them and showing them off, and now you had to get a big dig through the the rubble there. Now, of course, you know you ask him about, you know some. You know some stupid poster for our support program from program from Cowboy Dallas Cowboy game, and you can find real fast, so he was a big, a big Dallas, cowboy fan and. Being aged New York Giants, and I love to read and ride him about that. Now. When did this book come out gym When was this book released uh the Hardcover Edition came out. First came

out in January two thousand and twelve, we enable came out then too, foreign in started coming out soon after we had a paper back, at the beginning of this year, and then, just a few weeks ago, we came out with with the new edition Chris, Call Memorial edition, unfortunately, tragically Chris and and good friend, to his Chad Littlefield, were tragically murdered bye by a man or for alleged that they were murdered by a man back February. It was immediately after Chris is death, and it was tremendous you know just outcry of just people who just ever

back for Chris and in the Memorial edition myself, and we talked to a lot of a lot Chris is friends to try to get some of the other side for Chris the book has a lot of the Chris as a warrior obviously, and has a lot of stuff about his marriage because is really only a small part to Chris Kyle was so. We want talk to our friends of his who who meet helped in everybody from people on you know on the football baseball team to help coach the all up to be old, too blinded to wounded veterans who's there who it helped now is this was he? able to see the book in the how much the appreciate it or enjoy the. Uc interviews is such a good. It did that happen for him.

The you know when the book came out. I think that you know it was kind of a wild process, for he. Yeah, went when he- and I were talking- was the first time he had really ever talked about his experiences and put them into any sort of perspective and and I think it is very emotional. And when the book came out we kind of had our do that all again and I think it got easier, as you know, as time went on, but when it first came out. There was so much who blah about about who he was calling him hero, and that was a word he's in particularly like, especially when is used for him. Whether it was deserved it, he didn't like to hear it used, but yeah. I think there was

Yeah a lot of stress form and it gradually yeah. He was coming back to a good place. You know we're, you know he was able to is able to use some very startin. He is starting to use some of his fame to could actually help people and head was in the process of setting up what became of or what will become the foundation to help wounded warriors your transition back into into society and also, hopefully, help Bob Hope, marriages of y'all servicemen who you know just to help their marriage Still continue and thrive despite the stress of war and what this day is safe from all of this I mean obviously will have to get the newest late, in addition to seize here are some of our other thoughts but

Overall, what was her impression of this? I mean she loved. This man stayed with this man. Was it all worth it for her to be able to go through? All this all is well, I think, yeah. I think we all I'm sure that we would all want to Chris back. There's no question about that. I think that yeah she's, a remarkably strong woman and she's she's done a lot of things since Chris died a number of speaking commitments that Chris had that she's fulfilled Chris had been working on. Another book that, unfortunately, I wasn't available to to originally anyway to to do the book

but Chris and another writer I'm working on american gun and, This is part actually hadn't been finished at all when he died, a and K actually to hold me, and I she and I took over what Chris would have done and we all kind of got that book out. Two is also started that foundation that that I was talking about Chris Kyle, Frog and she's. Just you know, she's just done my a couple things here, just truck carrying on his legacy and at the same time you know raising two two small kids. So just so it's pretty incredible. I would say that they were your match pretty well to two really remarkable people and really really proud to call both of them. My them really friend,

And is there anything. Found that you've learned by the end of this entire projects. Helping this. Family get this story out and of course now we just talked about him being deceased. So it's a very bittersweet. There anything for found that you learned from this from the study of this incredible man in this incredible life, an incredible career well, I think you know, I think, I'm still. To be honest, I think I'm kind of processing it in a way. I think that the others a lot of a lot of things that you can kind of you know roll out, and you know and say, and I caesar the remarkable thing as he could pay out. Chris was that you know if there's a lesson to be drawn anybody. Anybody

can actually end up doing heroic things if they a the if there, if they just Work hard at it, as I don't feel 'cause. I don't think that you say Chris, was a good shot to begin with, but he wasn't, you know the best he just worked at it. He. This wasn't necessarily you know the the greatest hill helper in the world, and yet she helped so many people just because he just did it and it just showed up and just kind of he just was. That was who he was on the day of a day of Hurricane Sandy Which you know wasn't really that all that bad specifically where I live yeah, he called me up at five.

Talk in the morning. I'm sorry texted me at five hundred in the morning and asked if I needed help and it's like go to bed You're good up here, so you know so I mean Lots of lessons like that, and it's it's hard to kind of just all one out and say you know, you know that I mean yeah, the oldest guess the biggest cliche in the world is that you know you don't know what you've got. Till gone. You know and just you value value. Those friendships. You know, while you, while you have we were We were digging around for photos in the Memorial edition, as we want to put photos in and the others no photo of Chris and I together, which is. You know it's kind of funny and ironic and it's like now. We never you know. Never. I don't believe in taking pictures of you know. We just.

Do stuff, and now I kind of wish I had a photo, but that's the way it goes yeah well he's an interesting and well fascinating character. Is it his entire attitudes just totally uncompromising. He does It is incredible: love for his country, his family, his friends, he's no saint? That's for sure he's like a little a little guy like he's a teenager that all didn't grow up sometimes but he's missing, but in the end yeah he's a hero he's a guy that wants to protect people in and has the guts and the gumption to do it any really, love the military. He, like I say, is uncompromising and unflinching and what he said he said I enjoy doing I'm doing this and don't get me, he says, there's like no nightmares. So it's It's a fascinating story of love for,

you know a person that really maybe didn't want to show it, but it is a very loving and giving and generous person real soft but a real, tough guy. And that's why he had the nickname the devil in. I no translated in Iraq that that's the kind of a guy. He was. He was feared by those people in Iraq because of what he was capable of doing. I want to thank you very much Jim for coming on and talking about american sniper. One. Thank you very much. How can people get ahold of it? They are inclined to contact you and do you have web page, Facebook. The easiest way to get me is through my website, which is Jim Defelice dot com. There's a there's, a page where you can message or email. You can email me at email me at Jim Defelice dot com is probably the easiest way.

There's. Also I have a blog there's, an Amazon page. I tweet, if you're, if you really want your retweets, follow me on twitter and is the Facebook page and all that cool stuff, great So I want to thank you very much, Jim and hope to hear from you again soon when. The fascinating program, thank you. Thank you very much. Jim tonight. And now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah these be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but The far less appealing blobfish

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