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Love. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalist and offer Dan of good evening. Girl bear definitely is a legendary figure in true crime riding in broadcasting. Co. The very first true Crime, podcast ass, true crime, uncensored, hidden,

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there are nine truly important through crime books in two thousand murder in the family, was published in two thousand and four broken doll in two thousand and eight mom said kill in two thousand and eleven fatal beauty into thousand and twelve body count and also Headshot were published. Man overboard in two thousand and fourteen and with co, author, Fr exceed Gerardo Junior, a taste for murder was published in two thousand and sixteen, as was betrayal in blue a short story, the Alaska male bomb conspiracy was also published in two thousand, and sixteen in this world Retrospective, we will discuss. How is true crime writing career began his very first caisson book, the murder cases that shaped his career.

Dear and his incredible personal experiences with psychopath and serial killers writing these now nine through crime classics. The episode tonight is brutal. Bear retrospectively my special, investigative journalist and Arthur, implied, castor extraordinaire. The legendary borough Bear Welcome to the programme, and thank you very much for granted this programme. There is always a pleasure and honour to be on your programme and there is always a pleasure to have your minds. Why did we get along fine, it's, ways about an honour and a pleasure to have you on this programme to murder and this first retrospective. I think it's fitting to have somebody of your stature. I'm your importance in the one shoes by stage I would point out your chronology. Anna Scott, a couple understood Annabelle errors in it. Yes,

it should actually Kate was the first book out the murder in the family, the data you It's me I can't see to release with the snares. You knew cover toys died by banks and the well that you go much. I forget now go at birth, murder in the family. Nineteen. Eighty seven Anchorage Alaska, murderous, sociopath EC twenty three. Gold nephew slaughters is at an two of her children out. This is your first book, as I mentioned. Murder in the family tell us why but you were doing at that time. How do you come how'd? You manage it the author of murder and family. Tell us how this happens. How does it come to be? ok, I have just published. Rightly I didn't, I didn't, publish it myself,

but I had the book man overboard the counterfeit resurrection of those champagne published by Northwest publishing company. I back addition, which is a true crime book, and was nominated, which showed rather nice desert. Book a year did wind but was dominated As you probably know, it's a humorous, your crime book police disposed me. Numerous was to my theory, was investigating the true. I'm discover all the rules are very very harsh rules at that time. In the true Guadalajara answer. I decided I break them all. I beg I taught at break the fourth wall. I talked to the care, I talked to the audience the reader, I do everything you're not supposed to do, but at the same time Well, I guess the agreed time ago, contract

very strong, provisional underpinnings. You there was professional journalist, What kind literary experiment is certainly did reviews and critical acclaim much better than I ever imagined. It did not do in sales as good, as I hope, but in terms of respective got me a great deal that spicy from the great also, who is probably the best glamour I ever got it, and you saw me out. Cable talked me told me how much you like a book where we ponder friendship over that would show a lasting impact on it, so that the UN. What we call the ABA, the American Bookstores Association Arab, has their annual conference and the Pope. Roberto reported the display for the book. The woman walked up to me ass, my God, because I am a new agency I'm sure, dial breeze and I said well pleasure to meet. You may remember

Then she had contacts we observe Kensington Publishing is looking for an author to write. A book were true crime case Alaska. I have one question I said: is there a Czech attached yes, there is Well, I am obviously the man for the job well turned out of a fellow who brought the case to Kansas. Was a rich pleased, former anguish police officers, so he had caught his eye tracker was there was a wider. They want the writer. She knew him and do me Here's your guy! Well, I guess they agreed Sign me to a contract. The book I hadn't done one before they told me it had to be

A hundred thousand words exactly and had to be, Delivered in Nepal on exactly this particular date well, coming from a background they tell you your Elvis Presley special has to be fifty nine minutes thirty seconds, and it goes on the Wednesday, the twelve it can't be delayed until. Thursday? I can't be forty minutes long everything that and so that six down that date due date, they received by better express a man, exactly a hundred thousand words to the letter law. I get to stop. From the fabulous Ray had their current ass. She says this is the first time I might have ever received. The grip on the exact. Do David was exactly those words: Vulture Grammar

these align it it's perfect of, but the gypsy apple for everybody to that, the book is either. I try to use a lot of action in its work ever and a lot of words to give up forward motion and I think, of the nose of the beginning of the book dashboard kicks off in oversold zone. The nightmare began on section. Can I use a lot of forward movie words to try to drag you kicking and screaming through the first part of the book, I guess the trial you gonna slog your way through that well you're, not gonna skip it. I've noticed I've lived the life programme, fans don't like trials, You got that I find them fascinating. In fact, too fascinating

but would get in there. We talk about the head. Which is actually book a book about that. Yes, headshot! You write that this alcoholic Paul Saint Pierre had an urge to kill, along with his brother Chris and a friend Andrew Web, And- Kyocera, terrorize, acquired neighbourhood, near Tacoma, Washington, with a brutal murder of innocent victims, and that's as an understatement. How did you come too? why had shot again is a pinnacle release. Tell us how you came to about HIV. Get it in the guy. Can't talk you permanently image, let myself the vase. Ok, can figures pinnacle through quite membrane, so I may do to contract, saw you I m, not a book to do and ok part of this work Meyer editor care, and I said well give me some suggestions.

And I was working on. The private eye novel at that time. Then I would write or those in and make myself the euro because as you, rebels realise no one else is going to make the euro the private eye. So there was going to be the case. I had a way of myself: I move that one is a block which also like a shop with authority given both from under from publisher, we're I'm outta here this private. I know well I am writing novel. I am friends. We owe a great journalist, brilliant found Travers web who appears in the book as vehicles are real people, and the book is work of fiction with real people, and we give this book, and I got great reviews and low say all this is typical, measured by material awe and then We're says it all. My are my uncle

Andrew web is in prison for murder as all really His way up and be right with prison, while all Washington Lilies washes imprisonment. And that's really strange story: my mom is every article and all of us on that issue. She did and I looked at this door. I went this is really crazy. I mean this is insane story and then what I started. Looking at the trials and the legal stop there were on. It was every bit of insane as the people and the crimes and just now door. I ve never seen one job. I looked round him up. I find plenty of price

to toil misconduct, but the price tutorial misconduct. His case was so severe. You judges standing up from buying their Gascon, their robes and screaming This case is given the exceptional headache over eight hundred and fifty three, and I can't take it anymore. The court room I really could give up so is like Three trial solely what to mistrial repeals does States Supreme Court. Sensing documents were missing after the book was written. I was contacted by Christopher, say, peers attorney. Saying that Christian roots Sherwood Alpine by then was still in prison, Why is he still in should have been in a couple years ago? He said well, he was sentenced to serve his sins

consider. We called concurrently, currently their prisons, trying to say as observers consecutively. Would you be good? the problem is it no? No! No! No! No. He told you of the sentence in documents, as it were, was covered by the press big front page article. The paper is so secret. What assembly was who, whereas the actual sensing document stamp by the states signed by the judge, you moved because we can't find it and I had a copy of absolutely everything- will be the case. Data Washington had never seen anyone get as much material from them, as I did in writing. That book. Good Leave it out, I had read of ban to take all the stuff from the sea its Supreme Court labourer. We up warehouse whatever it is so much material and no one could find the sense in dog

and I want to Know- is missing from here missing from everywhere, and that's not a coincidence that intentional. And so that it already, we also find it like watching. The news four articles, but they wouldn't, except that I tried to get the video tapes. The tv station had videotaped sensing, a new company about the tv station and that tape was raised, and so they will die what this guy out of prison, despite the even brought the judge and the current report, I can well room and have them testify as to what the original sense, who was at the Department of corrections, would not accept that either and they kept. The guy at present, the only recently when a man is, he gonna blow multiple sclerosis and we went about, because he was so ill.

He was the one fellow it has had the least then they climb he's the one who went to the police said my. Brother and Andrew Web killed TAT. These people. I can't do you like if I gave you my mouth shut about any end. The prosecutor in one of his great brilliant moves, said to the press, the first one through that door gets the deal while the first one through the door was Andrew Web, the most guilty of them all, and he made a deal with the brain. In return for there not be a death penalty in return for their for him, a getting the bully to be parole.

Did you like about role? We go life with possible the pool he would testify against Christopher Saint Pierre Report, Saint Pierre and implicate them in the murder of these. Two people got upon the stand, you didn't do it. He said no. Actually they didn't I'm totally responsible. I take forward. The boy, I'm the one. Who was that the throat of Damon Wells and that's what I was about their particular He says they had nothing to do with it. They were there. They were shocked, debated, Dodd Cubic. You know I was gonna, kill him. Well, they cause approach was outraged because it already signed the deal. It was already a done deal, and so we took the prosecutor Eddie. I told the truth when he got upon the stand and the truth was the other two guys as others,

the murder of game and wells. He was the only one responsible but even acquitted beer was vulgarly where there was overturned pretty well. Bulgaria, the second murder images of mass total man. It was a difficult book to ride law work with that one and the people who their it the horrifying to read it I'll. Take the pictures is shocking and I didn't usually appeared before where the book I sent them all in and said So I was glad to a letter what was going on with me at the time, but I hope that wasn't available to be helpful map and the regular persons is wasn't there and so there pictures. You never saw disturbing,

So I gotta warn you tell me, you see pictures of decomposed body of David Wells and is really horrible, so more than I would want to see He was left a story, allow one about the books give saved. I, which is the true crime book about everywhere, but in the same two years and have log which is Private eye novel would be as the euro and picture will go, Travis Web or a book about the same time. Some people, including myself off and get the titles of the two boys, could reduce. Although heads shot, so much better than headlong. Although have luck is available new edition with a fancy to cover from wild blue press? Let's talk about broken doll. I

Oh that when I started my true crime journey, I mean I'm only. Involved? Not even twenty years in reading true crime, but one of the very first people that I saw on and was girl bear and the book that I saw the very first book I saw it from you was broken doll. In nineteen ninety five in every Washington a seven year old, send doll was abducted, raped and murdered by Richard Matthew. Clark, a trusted family friend. This is an incredibly disturbing an unforgettable store, broken. Darth was really or a me with a cover because it says appearance, worst nightmare and then my name truly powers as the only waited, but do not aware what they're doing so conscious thing. Once you may consciously aware it breaks the site

a break you about? The whole thing is not only the rape and murder of rocks and all a terrible tragedy. The light The guy who did it is a terrible tragedy. There is. Have we moment in the life of this entire book, I'm just heartbreaking and the figures it is awful as the crime is this Richard Matthew, Clark. Jeannette Classification, what they pop situational child molesters. And they are accorded all research. The easiest people to trick. He never received eighty three but never received any. Cancelling after the first time ever gets doubling, was questionable. All they did was locked up in itself.

Almost county jail for twelve months and then what about. And Eddie. I'm our talk, their situation, illustration experts and they all said the same thing and I was a we could fix a guy in those twelve months. We re at their appeal to those of the easiest people treated is not about that sexual obsession. You know they're mine. It is a pity extreme powerlessness, and they pick up someone who has no power sharing a boy except extreme whose people have been extremely ever had done to them pretty much what they can do so We ask you to a role reversal and when it please powers as the only waited but do not aware what they're doing so conscious thing once

They consciously aware it breaks the cycle for somebody here, I'm not a doktor ambulances. Psychology, psychiatry, whispered. These people are the ones people are supposed to show a book pedophile who acts on a better view. Most reviled never do act on a better future, you go, get help poor because it's a bad reputation. So your days, you dont get help little get better, but please don't do anything bad. The situation or child molesters can be treated which would the great black society. Does it wouldn't do things I wish you'd better neglected and once you get you the shepherd boy than them everybody suffers. And he suffered all of his life and then the family for example, have to suffer so it is where'd, you go away rub the family lived very close to me. I will

local Washington was right by everyone and, in fact, her father who actually lived marries a few blocks for me: to various stop buying share with him and he's got his daughters, phase tattooed on his chest, his armor, it yourself And the detective Herndon the guy's got us all the time the youngest follow, every become led, detective and ever Washington and solve the case and was almost immediately devoted back to a driver beat up car. For no reason to hear everything else. If others will you right through crimes, worn by a girl she king

but we were too were, but simply up would be about your God. One now after better word, came out, though, just about to do modern family. Anyone who goes regarding we were doing, While I told them, is as well that peace advice, wheelbarrows has prepared a quiet life, He says it's gonna be very emotionally trainees issue. You want to be hard cynical whatever basis, both of us right or types of few words. He gave steadily whether a mostly sensitive he says so be prepared to cry with the family. Haunted by the images you see here, I can see the wood Member of the family, I kept pictures of Nancy,

those two kids school pictures of scotch tape to my computer? no just desktop computer. Why wrote? I never forgot what was right about now. You have a fascinating story, I mean all of these books include fastening stories, but this one is again. When they just sticks out a little bit more. This mom said kill just for the heinous nature of this. This, plan what Jerry Hymen in two thousand and one terminal cancer. He had hired Barbara Marie Opel as a health care provider and housekeeper and she hatches applied, two teams enter on three children to kill hymen NEA again, you say you say you can't be detached from these stories

You can see why maybe something it say what you have to be detached. You have to be an emotional, but to delve as deep as you have to do in this investigation that you undertake to write these books near the furthest thing from detached. This is your eyes. It is about everywhere the books ruin. The stories of others is really a strange what he called her all strange. Ah, so much true crime. Around his died away in real life and people realised through innovative, more. Going on there is too is it all you gotta do is watch idea and see how many times the same crime comes up on the different programmes. Quite enough. Who crime over no borders, that is, after. Bigger show out, do you want me if I would programming it requires channel

I would want the same thing. They want to talk too much. I want stories. I've got something strange to him. You know what twist of the tail does the smoking gun? our governments you Joe and does it matter power, our tv show, you gotta have a investigation that have something strange to it and now in this particular story, when mom said kill the twisted, the tail is it it was hard to solve, because it was easy to solve. That wasn't, a problem was strange is the fact that the border took place in the first place? Don't even happened what I found fascinating was the relationship between Barbara Opel and her daughter, Heather Heather did whatever mom said. That's why

bomb, mom, said, kill, mom, says, kill you go kill you do whatever mom says that was really the dynamic of the relationship. Unfortunately, the mother. Was no more intellectually or maturity advance. Then her daughter, she was. Firstly, one of the tools except a very bossy one, jewels the alpine child, shall we say. All she had her own tourism. Mental limitations. Oh Mister grey eyes, he was crazy. I mean she did actually ever goes home limitations Among the main in planning, This crime, which you worked on this dance He really was obsessed with killing employers who is really a nice guy

MR nicely kids, why why'd you wanna come up. He had forty thousand dollars. Come again. His bank account If you want to get the money to pay it, if she killed them to get the money to steal the money, she did not think or plan past the moment when his body is the ground, if you're a good plan, a murder which is not a bright thing to do But if you were, hopefully you if you want to get away with it, what planet where you do after you killed the person is the opening of the book a case for me frank, and I talk about all the different ways to kill somebody way you're every time you know it just doesn't work will we get away with it to do but think about trying to get away with it. Did you thought about doing it? So you got a dead body on the floor.

It never occurred to her. What do I do now. She didn't run away just book two blocks away down the motel. Nobody, even through the snow, What do I do now thought given to the whole bridles? Is gonna, kill him now have the money, so I was really the catch you that's. The whole thing is, I now makes retrain them the mom and dad The kid there's a little, the youngest kid keeping to clean up the blood, no brains in the world outside for her. She was after the book came out. She would go on to the grocery store nearby where she lived, and why- book is plastered, has just come out in the number one position there and its bomb said, kill with, though her mouth picture. You know right down the front,

then go free, drab, so the store. Much to my room, I bought the storage of vermin kept the book on the shelf knowledge of the book there. Now the Bijou till they get don't walk over the book to women. The desert stray strange store, but you have another story and contain and fatal beauty with wealthy Jimmy just long time, lover, Rhonda Glover claimed after fifteen years it just was violent and and threatened her and she had a killer the self defense, though I will again there, but in the court view we heard stories anew, reported on them, a devil, worship and sexual perversion, and. No special provision is a lot of sexual participants. Stag like cordwood

the goal of vital perversion or not, but the girl Blogger? Radio? Isn't it so coffee kids the terrible drove Rwanda, Glover she's back she's, crazy, nuttier fruitcake? something is over. There was an interesting thing about this case, when I got all Rhonda, unlike most people the year is out. He's got bolivar by writing. Roger I want you to be able to comment on everything in this book on a plate or eagle. You gonna, give you free rein. You could say whatever you why you ve been quite David's contradicted everybody. I want you to help for rain on this issue. This is welcome, I've never been in a mental institution. Ever had the mental problems. He will try to save a crazy. Can you get my medical records? I can't get them? Can you get them? oh, I got all right.

She had a bell institutions: Oliver Life poor thing, they never had really real, comprehensive, ongoing treatment. If she had met, she didn't take em and cheaper, and when she had been diagnosed with use. The book is where they they know that she's got a severe mental problem. Psychosis absorber done otherwise specify losing The giver holder still long enough look out long enough to do the thorough enough croquet, who examination of exactly what kind psychosis. She. What was triggering it on top of that she was so medicating with massive amounts of work, methamphetamine and cocaine which was exactly open, metal state. To a paranoia. She don't you even to the walls,

what delusion. Was it her. New Iraqi wasn't her husbands were calibre. Common law has been a long time. Boyfriend Jimmy Father were child he and George W Bush we're having homosexual sex with clones the cave under her house right now. You Take the data disqualified from stand being fit to stand trial, but they made her to stand trial by giving a road seroquel or something to calm her down, and then it took her sides to listen right. If you can't mention the cave where the clones were the devil, because it's too dangerous, if you talk about that, is too dangerous and stated that to me You talk about these demons. You're gonna come kill your kid kill you or kill your mother, and so because it was too dangerous.

To talk about it in the court room. It was never brought up, it would happen And brought up some miles anyway. What's she doing these devices are within that's the outer competent to stand trial. She wasn't really combat Sandra. My business was commented to sit while a low stand trial. I went to fear in prison. Now. Look strange experience. I use they dont go see the the murderers reviews psychopaths imposing enough cycle paths walk round the streets in LOS Angeles, Adam Nickel, seamen, prison, awe and she's on her said the plexiglas and fortunately I had quite a lot of experience to block psychedelic spent in the sixties, where the adventures banner goldfish look, there's a catch. All looked as a capital there's going to be no stronger. If I pissed rob

to put it in a good mood merely by going all run a trail boy. You were to say such a says, right away her face with light up with them. Boys smile and she just you guys you pop up like a blow fish. He knows I could It is worth manipulate, but I go is blue. Spencer Mood, you buy something better matching. You could see it instantly and I was gonna scary, but I guess you know changed a channel. By what I said to us, how she would modified things Was it the news? Lately? Oh, yes, Jimmy was in that. If it were something bad, you know she although he was in league with the devil that his face was other twenty dollar bill, except on its way

dollar bill his face. He was wearing a leather gag mask now as an stuff was you wasn't, of course. So there was rolled peculiar talking to her and. Two people were very concerned about her metal stake, but it wasn't that always easy to get some more than wild flowers. You get them help it. When she was first read they didn't register for modern western firearms violations. We wonder about real guns, here hear this woman who is been. I remember seduces. Mental health is always all her life with diagnosis, having psychosis, We always put the single weapon. Is your down there? The firing practicing on killing this guy she's? Even at the structure? Ok, let's say I'm up, who's going to cover up the stairs to see we,

you know what I'm in this room. How do I shoot him the residue and firearms violation, because when she filled up the paperwork. She didn't tell the truth, you don't do a check, they don't people's forms. To save your honesty, which is a great boon the mentally ill Emmy desires, sheep were done both address, she put down a pauper, history and she wide honour firearm registration, that's a crime, that's what she was arrested for. They didn't want to hurry up and into the murder charges to be oriented cursory similar to curbing Anthony whenever she could be amply upper Alaska. The numerous homicide red supermarket. Arrested him. There was a cigarette ashtray.

That's why they arrested him. If I could place back to that, would just for a moment in addition to curbing Anthony having killed Betsy nominated too little kids, he also murdered some other people, you murdered Walter. Happy was a transsexual anchorage because it is, The water was Walter, I am to Walter before moral sex audio and there then, when he The water was a guy. A girly murdered him. Wheelbarrow dumped him in an alley and of the copse mention. To that he murdered these two little kids didn't phase of any Merv occurs.

They mention Walter Kirby would shift get furious because it was upsetting. Nobody killed anybody, but is upsetting. It then he'd had sex with Walter. Waller was a guy. They kill a little kids, but having sex with wire always curious about their it. Also Burma. You'll grow, allegedly back in Idaho, as well to Alaska get away from that they are problems. Credible, tail incredible tale that became on became best seller. To that that was very beautiful boy. Were we surprised about that that back I expect a paper matched by the paper bag through crime book in my purse. Before these serious wider banner was yours. My pursuers were member. If one were Kensington was going to be a new Yorkers baths.

I would never Bolivia and work course. They believe the boy, but do they were prepared for bureaucracy, times. Bestseller list with the same week we ran out of books, begins Also many, so bad. They didn't have any more books to sell. So it was. This way up the next week or would have been the top ten best sellers just on it. You have made the lives, but but even higher if it had more books to fill it back down And I dont know: why do you guys, but seller must have been the title? people will know what a book everywhere Toronto after they buy it and read it so it must have been a company for the title and description on the back. I guess we're Cubans people Reddit fate,

recommended that people, gotta lotta gray, reviews and may look at Amazon people are how much are bothered to read a book there be rendered anyway. Sorry. Why are you doing here, initial doing their show that I didn't interview about murder. The family too. Much later So, just a few years ago I read modern family, so I had the perspective of reading it and now, when you say this is my very first book, they were impressed because you're writing. One depressive in Jack Wilson, giving you the accolades that he did like you say, Jack Olsen when I first talk about betrayal in Blue, to where we were on the sub. While the other through the Alps. The stories to a and new inherited that same ability through pinnacle and through just where you wore geographically at the time.

In the end, because of the author that you were, you were able to get stories that resonate. That are just just by the description on some of these books. You are compel to pick up that book. I want to read that one iota It gives it as you don't through crime is a female river genre majority, a butcher bob women. Are you really marketing the women which is somewhat problematic on some of the books, because, like betrayal in blue, and I think, maybe I'm almost tempted to change the title of change. The cover on that and put his wife's picture with their by my husband, Corrupt Copley as to the enemy beady sober we will see. A reduction in that book was only a little while later, but I run the topic we say,

Innovation is a cop stories, So I wanted to start here. You know the guys can tell your dates and times and places cadavers. But the women of the emotional barometer- the school, and so we start the book store as with the ten year old, wife. Home alone, will give the dog, and always these policemen. I did the bushes. Requires, you know arousing towards her, should I Ruggles you don't know what else war on railways we started from our perspective. And we're on the shoulder to another one. The most downloaded shows grab it. My husband that church who I love for my part, I would whether load girl, Cubs Nypd. Anyway, I am going to talk about betrayal in blue

do while we are on the subject. We might will talk about that, because after Pinnacle decided not to pursued through crime. The way they were, they were there. They were of the premier independent, especially true crime book destination in in America, and were wide Canada of all kinds of international player, as they were really the the true crime book. I want prowling about the way in Berkeley. We would not want month. We're embracing a lot of the stories that I think the true crime Y know. The true crime audience was looking for, as we saw when the true I bought gas explosion, happen. People weren't so adverse the hearing about Gore, whether it's a female audience. They primarily reads true crime books. They were not so hesitant to re details, that's what now I think Pinnacle was tapping into

there, was the same stories that you and I wouldn't would read these. Women were reading and and enjoying an end, not bad, an eye at all. The details even a lot of work or not about leave the murder. You are you put better the diver basically givers to be lightened very lightly, the lovers relationship, murderers, like murder in the family. And you will get more relationship to none of the guys are for the most part. And saw them there were no were the element of their use in news, I'm sure they do in Canada, the United States through typical? Where does all those kids have something to make? You feel better about reports of somebody else. You'll have not as screwed up his person. And almost all new daily news. Guess, where war whoop tribute of that and something to be afraid of

every story about animal. Format, and so you re these stories about how does it feel them Why wasn't all their husbands and the real sick was like lovers who kill their own brothers and sisters area, weird step. May get off on a DORA God, Without one did our very flowers it above the couple. The traveller rattler them picking up sex slaves in killing him now. The second was murdered You wouldn't believe, as I always people come from well. I don't know Well, when I started doing my plight, gas requirements answered with further greater those essentials. Have the nutrients most of us don't get enough from food. All Although radio, which is heavy, every heavy mayo, I would like for men, eighteen to twenty

Five with a good chance, do twenty five to thirty. We spoke with drink, we interrupted slogan, no further budget bozos, and I would like to do is ever going to do it's in the Meadowlands Bro Angelo Silva, just before mine. We want to do so. I just had a true crime books come out. Due to climb showed all last out over the dismal journey to do with the day was a regular match your do Maybe we get managers in true crime of we do a skewed where's the male audience. Joking around the room. Now we will look at your gun what about all these guys are. Nobody took my blood gas where people are responsible professionals, people say so vague, irresponsible. The two are matters now was to try to get guys

into Peggy. We start a Virgil joking around gradually the sure programme. As a rule? It becomes more serious because his crimes, Asturias, but you always ever gonna. Joking guy sit around a bar approach. They fell. The show began, That's why the show actually goes take place in a bar Madame Backyard Syllable line uploads exactly like the eighteen. Seventy six develop styled meal bar Complete swinging indoors and real outcome, I would also thank God and an fat assed again abuse. Let's use this as an opportunity brought it to break for a second to talk about our sponsor which is ritual, we all want to do the right thing to keep our bodies healthy in the long run, but it either

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innovation for your body, visit ritual dot com, slash, murder, to start your ritual today. That's ten percent off during your first three months at ritual dot, com, slash, murder, now girl we ate in every authors Greer, especially in true crime. An author has the opportunity we won't say misfortune, but opportunity to experience a serial killer in body count and spoken Washington. First, thirteen by fifteen women, murder, and Robert more than probable you near. Probably Yeah about values, twenty five or thirty altogether, we take other countries into account. This was

respected father of five and a helicopter pilot who served in desert storm? So this was a complete surprise, but this is the psychopathic serial killer, that robber Legit Yeats, Junior was and you're incredible story body count. The book about rubber leads each junior. The book, how do you know the price writing review. You read no one of my favorite posters. Every true global shall we get murders fulfil familiar with that did. You know what it's like to write a book and it's not easy. We may get it right but each one has its own emotional personality. When you're writing it is never the same. Everyone has his own god.

You gotta run, and sometimes it difficult, relevant I've. Everyone Why do I moved to presented a better Kensington empirical through crime? Call me up what already Dad was want Glover, fatal beauty, little beauty, yeah and I was having a horrible time with that. Why I thought that was going to be the easiest one to write. It was the most difficult she said, you're grounded in his manners granted. I am. And she told me what the mistake was: the war, what I what I done wrong read the reviews on Amazon, my other books. Show me not to do that. Cuz, don't read the reviews. I read the reviews. Joys Over the bed was a bad one, was it don't like my books or the one

awaited by the item, but the other ones. You don't like trials, didn't like me, your browser and the only way that stupid thing all you do is put in the budget while transcripts was no other, does that it shows up ignorant they are the hardest things for took her mother to do is to take something from its wild friend, add modified use. It and structures can actually be used as a book. Is those diseases seeking filed France gifts and put you in the book for filler pisses me off when I say that it so I was perfectly avoiding anything, and I had to do with the legal procedures because I have so many complain, Some people, like my books, about that she said, there's a remember

You write books for people who, like your books, not those who don't go ok, all right, people like my books and then helps with body. Now there was no legal stop. It really was sealed no legal supper. They where the disease grievance through the report between spoke, English he was guilty. I guess this guy is there. Deal originally the bigger the death penalty off the table. Reveal where the bodies were buried. The sort of thing and then the peers carry over the deal the deal and death. But

the judge rightly rule you'd already been sentenced to five hundred some years in prison, so after reserve, the five hundred some years baby kill em so that work out well, he is a model. Pressure because, on his very good, the military, so they never have. Any problems with the model preserves is fine and we'll work. I get an update both for the audition. You mention two other savvy cover a purple cover the girls standing by a reversion, Bessie, updated Edition. Oh there is an updated, the evil tradition to fear. They thought originally realities. Giant billboards of his victims will turn out. The first

three or four people on that. Billboard word his victims at all. They are the victims another serial killer, the of the riverside killer and their own. But the boy was killed and other bodies were doubled up with the title, Rob, believes they. Finally, we caught the suspect. DNA. Improved dna testing improve the idea that person you know a cursory weapons violation except it was a woman who used to be a guy. The guy had gone. Don't I wanted. The Philippines is ablaze had gender reassignment surgery came back, who spoke here

the woman and got killed anybody sense. I think that the fence use what I did do, what he did. We has happened to the same body. I guess. Let's go strange, but the I knew some of the victims who spoke a serial killer. My daughter went to school with his kids, we lived in the same town. More than once over the wall, while awash Washington, rather than cause blaze little suburb work the prison interesting. The illustrations. Are. You worked watch apron attentively as the corrections officer and though they take pictures of the employees the same place to take pictures of the prisoners and their ways you see a picture of a robber leads Croatia's officer. Next, to that I put the picture Robert leads prisoner. He used to be a glitch.

Just opposite. The penitentiary now is a prisoner. You gonna tell me. The first people murdered were friends of my family and I were vertical operative doing about the hours and go and then I knew well model. Murmured, the dial up, This is vital and dollar dollar one another murder met her several times of my friend, Arthur and Register is also strange. I was I mean no one would ever suspect wobbly aids obese real and at the same time, people who that gave a serial killer I daughter and her friend were standing in to see interview with a vampire standing alone. The by numbers agree were killer boy, good, guys, croupier bodies.

Whoever killed me right, while but surely you don't get bad? You know like the last pursued everything go. The case with you, you hooked up with Frank, Gerardo frankly. He Gerardo Junior tell us a little bit about this collaboration this oh authoring and taste for murder. Oh yeah, great fun item in the case of great value to the guidelines are being dead, but working with frank people ask how does that process workers by betrayal of blue. Where the three of us can you around Frank in my shop. Ah where there is real and told the story I used to live in the Pacific, Northwest Airlines contacts up there. If I wanted,

know about this. That I get to where I get to talk to the sky. Laploshka resolve certain talk of his copper yoga. They live their zone by glow Homeboy. I can't go to the southern California opposition anymore. You know anybody and I don't have those forgot about relationships, but I have to say so I'm afraid you are too well. My show talking about his book about the faint Rockefeller guy And how could I really impressed guided brilliant Journalists were lots of awards, gray personality and everybody. You'd been get it over the past year, the STAR news guys connected and The guy knows are right, great writer, and so I have read or write another book gone well

I am afraid. I am well aware that you remember, of course, knew I was ever you want. Your book goes, yeah sure So we'll we get started up together and even similar separately. It was really that's very good. Like ashore little quick duties, we get the ah Reagan, I'm upset some by. We get a quick and dirty little book on the May Wing Williams Murder wish you well in your eyes, bird kids. She chops above the samurai saw deserted A suicidal by their real. What sort of fully book in Israel short now

for you. Wanna put people on the city was other sea before the Copsewood Frank was We want that up and we made more money immense itself like a buck? Rikers, Israel, booklet? We need more money out of that of an entire year, those of any other to grumble my catalogue Another good reviews some good. We made our money variable range. But because it was on the reserves, memory was dead. Which I was on an old burger cabin argue about of our friends, the great guy, a written I was gonna,

the book to do, and I will do and I didn't go to go through a book Don't worry turn into a tv series made today. Every on a real government career. So let's go frank. I found that case. It would be for a case priorities and, on the other, contact with it is it the way he explains how we work. I felt very clever. We didn't know vanity, Pasadena Library, people showed up a result. Some books should also questions and you have also been musician place. Guitar I been a ban is, as it were, doing album

physical, like he's a rhythm, sexually lays down the basin roms like a man, and I do we get all right and we ve done to Poland Books together, we ve never written in the same room. We ve ever been the at the same time. All right. What I write Then you have in your big trouble, no suggestions that bad and will do the same, we'll go by before Wilson. Right together, we just gotta He his stuff by right, mind why radio we did mine. I make a couple knows we made the couple Odin felt we do it. Well, I feel the elaboration well know, reveals every city life we and pretend to type and that I watch him began the type you know me we read he's got it now: the overall policy,

an opera abolishes rapid work such as by plus we made a decision that was smart thing to do here when I was with Kensington, The reason why I pursued manner with a lot of rules- the true cried one of US here, the coming two thousand words. His story only took sixty two, Mathilda regulate every historic of overloaded those words right, almost all the facts: good, the idea of the audience. You know you could never get like your Friday, justified MA am while we decided with it. If we were a city with our friends well said, would dance of asking who told the story. The weather was leaning back in a chair and sit on the edge of the seat. He likes even true crime stories. Gonna tell him one until a month

seven man Jane, I agree to do anything else. Tell the way we tell if someone else may tell of different. Were retailer, and we just assuming Then why does he like stories? We like our like telling stories and that's how we approached it all the compliments. We got on the book that the biggest problem with the way as written the style We wrote it just as if we were sitting here with you tell you the story. Empty, while very heated there. And we will lose one more word when it took to tell the story we have tell the story the way we tell the story of method and have exactly what we get while your books too. They do explore things in there other others to talk about this, but there they are rare, but people are not

their says there has to be more to this story again. The facts certainly and again It's not an editorial excuse. We saw a reason to just two: at a but their obvious is something to be right from One of these stories rolling added a pity. It is true. Crime bore the Gaza Gideon the house again, Google, why, and what do we do about? It is pornography. Pornography doesn't mean sexual for Gaza removes appealing to the law is based on common denominator. Here it saw it in every one of my books But he says we went overboard, you pretty Orpheus up there, the authors commentary at the end. We delve into the. How do how do we deal with this? resolve these problems. Are you know what is

why, in the for this we do by based on it Greece is whether the sty should things about the case for murder. Was the story of the woman who did the murder Once again, however, we insist ah- and her sister had said to me- your grandpa was having sex with all of us, but he stopped with the road was about that. We usually stop that sort of thing. While I was shocked to hear that, I didn't know that The time usually stop having sex with your rank is ideal, the time when you started, I mean letters blue mutton, but I went and looked up to our scholarly research about budget regional says. Yes, there is a typical time that starts with a tip

good, I'm gonna do it three years after three years of having settled, Frank is usually stop the one who knew grand carriage but grandpa stop with her Grandpa up all the way till she was eighteen and she had to abortion from? regular, grandpas kids, when she was in high school, but we do want a research and some of them. Research. You learn things when you do research like this tat, when you It seems so obvious wonder why did that ever crossed my mind before, for example, if a kid a little kid essentially molest you feel real, sorry for, say the kid section Alessias, thirteen fourteen fifteen

or sheer he the one but once about sixty videos, you stop you stop doing so for and the real problem is he the sacks feels good. Which speak psychologically or maybe maybe going no, no, no! No! But your boy he's going. Yes, yes, yes, yes and was a the biggest problems is victims of sexual abuse face is that is bad as it was the enjoyed physically And the guilt and shame that they have for feeling what is perfectly Therefore, the feel of physical situation is horrifying, really screwed up there Why there are only- and I know you will get all the time left out. There were two responses to ah.

Sexual violation or brother sister, we or Father daughter answers to ramp child insist. What you become as as we do in language and sexless war. You become what appears to be incredibly promiscuous and have this time the sex with all sorts of people, and they will want that. How strange? Why would that be didn't occur to me either until I read the research is very simple: I doctors, one woman who? Surely everybody Family was broken. The poor girl her

Ruggles recovers every by she says being a sex workers. She says she gets to decide who does what nobody else she's the one who says yes or no, nobody else. She is in control of her body, her sexual life, not anybody else so that every time she says yes, is her decision, not somebody else's and has arrived. Claiming of her own body and her own. Sexuality not being controlled by somebody else had occurred to me you'll. Maybe Everybody else that I caused by my mind, but all the researchers yeah. That's what that's about.

It is no middle ground who think of your a bit of racial religious prejudice or be will pick up. You were being canadian because only only to only two possible responses, either you're going to become just like people who pick on you rejected prejudice against others or you're, going to be a champion of acceptance and inclusion. Noble. Well- and there is no real you gonna- be justice, prejudices they were, or you gotta be a champion of inclusion and TAT S the way it is and for everyone by bridges quickly to the channel of how important it is in any country with Canada. The United States country in terms of its civilization as punctuality, functionality, tab

a well informed population. A well educated, well informed population and a well informed electric. Do it one of the great tools to destroy civilization, manipulated If they have any ill informed or misinformed the uninformed population. What they call the a low information people, direct subsidies for produce and there's always put a general plan face, was rather shocking. Consider down here, he was always send those atomic every other back port of America. A well informed electorate is the backbone of a democracy. Well, what I ever,

put into not having a well informed electric because Well, I'm form routers are real problems. It is your way through your be it. What do you do so? A lot of the marking of the well, The kid all those ivory tower intellectuals. All, although put down the well educated marking them I can remember, we gotta go were proposed by the United States. Are years ago. Headlights Stevenson kid at the time. But I remember what people comply. And about him was. He was to spark who was too well educated again could go further categories with with the blood. The sooner the reason they books absolutely you know betrayal in Blue, which was released in two thousand sixteen,

the shocking, that more of the scandal that rock the Nypd in the story of Cops Dowd and Kenny URL. You worked with Gerardo and this Kenny, rather this bad cop from the seventh? If we think this is an incredible collaboration twin you about. It also demonstrates the ability for you to get a journalist and author of Frank, Gerardo Stature to co author, but also due to be able to get, and I think this is important part of all the books. Are you happy Is it the respect you have as a journalist- and this is evident when you get to talk to this Kenny Euro and. It gives you the information its sights on Netflix, but the book that you have betrayal in Blue really gets to ah the character of this Kenny, well and to tell the truth about the Nypd. I think this is where you are which crime uncensored had stuff

Nobody else had stuff like this bad cops. Finally, opening their mouth and telling the truth. This is a powerful book, betrayal of blue, but it also again in kids and demonstrates the ability for you to have that respect for people to say. Yes, I will tell borough bear I will what were you letters three, a strange thing added. It is true. I have a letter from retired secret services while workmen like a recommendation. And the letter was written probably twenty years ago. He says for some reason, people Don't talk to boy there and they will tell him openly tell We will make sure with everybody else.

The report is also the attorneys, but for some reason they will tell Robert and thank God they do and those of other people that, whatever Susan Movable Otto had the same. Every place for the safety of people would talk to her. I don't know why it is very unhappy about it. Will you have a background that really is not over yet either. You have a background as an elite. You weren't spend all your time in school. You were you have a run in radio and sales and marketing in music. So you obviously were by the time that you were true crime you had already established, are the ways to communicate with people and all kinds of people and which Was the real benefit earlier on this?

who was I joke about, as if it were really a double life? I have no life at all and head a boy live with you. She always marked I wanna meet anymore you're friends with every bit of these people that I know the tariff wadded shock. Good. I appeal to all all social strata, some of my wooden bring home some of them. I will gladly bring home We bring all the culture shock, but I couldn't in addition between all level levels and that all both in both of those of american culture very fairly easily, although I may appear out of place, I could play a strange story. I wound up one night in a particular location of people that you would not necessarily

was uncomfortable around. Ah, the tv was on and it was who wants to be a millionaire, and I'm watching that body Other things going on allows. So the woman she's gonna watch the two, and I just happened to be by sheer coincidence. It'll answered every pressure vast everywhere they go. Do you see whatever law, this bizarre, colonel babies taken place and we Everyone will look suspicious. What the hell are you doing here. Has anyone who just would have you believe it are you be a millionaire now? What the hell you doing sitting in his room for criminals turns a good question carefully, but every eye was perfectly couple they had been

had been so willing to play the game. There was on tv, they Bollywood been so suspicious of me. I would like at least he was in a room. You Your books are imbued with your personality, but also its important. I think further the swear to understand is that if your books didn't have this tone tone of that law enforcement would approve you are on the right side of the law. Despite your understanding and com, prevention of criminals like dimension. You understand when someone is insane rather than psychopathic killer, regardless of what the court has determined and prosecution wants to put Forward at a trial, but are you alone that lot reserve and it looks good law enforcement officers, vigour catch the bad guys,

good luck and be able to elect the good things like a criminal, and that is one of the first things I What is the people who do not understand how criminals think make all sorts of assumption Just absurd is like listen to chauvinism, let me talk about each other, neither one nor the other target about big you offers of subsidies it just to products and services. Bazaar of agitation assumptions know that sort of people they ignore that that water up to you know, but I got There- criminal really easy, I'm right You have a criminal mind and.

I'm going out to catch anybody and I could keep a secret as well. The next criminal is one reason: people, though they safe with me and was his murder or child molesting, has a different story before visit got brains out, tell me they ve killed. Somebody knows tat. To limitations are there, but anything about that. We were right approach a longer time. What are you doing for seven years ago and beyond laws is not murder. You tell me anything. Whereby the boy But I'll tell you what to do. Talk about their own from law enforcement itself, though, in that you have the respect from law enforcement that you're not gonna, put out something, that's a response It's a bull factually whatsoever and you also have the reputation of having the tone. The beyond the right side of the fence. Here

but having undue again just presenting the facts, but your opinion, The end result of your books. The tone is appreciated by law enforcement. The challenge- only rarely eight when I went to spoken, I was preceded them By Jove, what's his name, he wrote a book about the same case: the guy in the OJ trial, vermin mark vermin. Urban from him and he had pierced the cops up there so bad there when I Europe is already didn't like me, because he read the true cried book. And it was so wrong. So Phila, with errors and just absurd mistakes, and beyond the beyond. And they were afraid that I'd be just as an accurate just as ridiculous offensive.

To them ass. He was fortunately I wasn't. There will probably be the re run, a book, we all have a year a year and a half ago the pictures were dragged their good anyway from them. When they have observed, gonna desperately wouldn't given to me his maybe weight Ro Games aware on, but I gotta go the guys that helped me out on that cuz. They were great the office I can't force, wasn't easy, but it was so mad. Vermin. For what are you way we re at a radio Shorty talk about him like the reasonable, their book was to show he he do more than they did because of the book was about about pick up as the killer. Then he called above those all tell me how you did it told the truth he could do it. I had a rope there were Domini. When I showed up and had a convincing

I wasn't him so again, the problem. If you get the police better absolutely now, these books you were published with from Pinnacle, and now, with wild blue press as of late, both very very fine publishers that that specialise. I think In the real true crime author and the dedicated sophisticated, true crime reader, can you tell us a little bit about the process with? I know, with Kensington Press how much they were involved in helping these books get to the end result that they were. As I mentioned, now to crime, classics bill, you don't know you ve gotta, be true for a glance at the dawn of time goes by they were films. You know what you classic film adult years later.

I'd be covered by pre eminent position, the true why world simply by saying alive and region, you're, saying running about books, candidate Karen horse, whoever complexes she'd retired now, who she was I've got good editors. She is beyond doubt the passenger. I've ever had world? I I'll say enough, wonderful things about it. We are like a bull combined meld, but I was bright all night until six in the morning But also because of the crimes themselves in the criminals, not yet you know not to bearing an adviser, anything with very unique in terms of now, and we have the sprit killer, we have the one off killer. We have the people there in a big rush.

It was fantastic to work with her and the process of picking it up but case to do. I just sent her my I said. I hear four different cases. I'd like to do pick the one you want and then she'd say: okay, how about this one, they get. There were Michelangelo, the semi! That's what I said. You did a lot of books about the blue collar criminals, but the market has changed the got bad economy is gonna help. So people want to read books about rich people. With a lot of drugs. Do super stuff. So that's why you did fatal beating his save. You could find some goodwill. People with a lot of money in a lot of drugs and love sex and preferably a wood cheaper. Every cried the worshipper, but you know this market research like this

should a magazine or the newspaper USA today, which is looks like a newspaper, his daughter newspaper, for ever seen it In reality, the magazine could a magazine find out where you want to read, and then they printed newspaper just prince would have the losers. Beggarly, greatly worried and go researchers at a working group with viable chivalry when he got up he's good. You are Youtube about? People were lower economic levels of long low life surges scumbags big armies bear to hear that one of those little lives you want. About rich people who were bad, pretty simple, a figure out Looking for someone to be better than like I sit on, the news is over a little clip of somebody who feel better than your lives. Better. There's your husband. Feel strategy. We are meeting that need of feeling better somebody else

Don't leave them myself. I just what I feel better than me What are you going very much like other literary forms other magazines, books. Things have gone through era. More popularity just because of the nature of the criminals and the crimes, and I guess better crime solving then the real serial killers running around for fifteen or twenty years unsolved. So we know the history of American and where the police caught up, I guess to some of these people. This is that what we need now, I guess, considered true crime classics, but also because of the crimes themselves in the criminals. Not you know not to bearing an honest eyes or anything but very unique.

Terms of now, and we have the sprit killer, we have the one off killer. We have the people there and a big rush to get famous. These other people that were daddy. I get a job is gave it up and says what the eyeballs would write a book I'll be famous. What we do with all that, but that we are just as is based The sun went down It's really yes, really! raising girl that you were in the right position at the very very right time with all the right intentions and all the skills and you put together. This collection nine truly important, looking well another? Why haven't? I got some more cover, I'm. Yet I go governor, normal food, that served by yours answer fully called as a pre boy upset America.

The very first was called feeling Manhattan and had never before Tolstoy are the greatest untold who quite destroyed american history involving the biggest mega highest over a billion dollars in diamonds, gems, precious stones and cash stolen from the damages, rigidly York and yes, they got away with it everyone was allotted the security companies, the save bend, your bags, recoveries, everybody. And the guy who planned at all got away. Everything never went to prison, he retired Europe by legal to go him incredible story is all true Got back up to now If you read revives epic story, so incredible takes three books to tell it. Ah, the gay spiders bench render itself

frank- and I are wonder, were starting that were boy you're mine. You would have been. The fact that this even took place is astonishing. You have members of the russian mafia, We're going to prison sworn in his bedroom agents, so bacon arrest people to lower their prison time and bigger g weaker, Somebody for murder now really lower our present time, and so they allegedly frame a retarded kid for murder to reduce their prison sentences. Wow Well well, and I got all the more that and but we were already got some legibly film address and asteroids a true story and breakin arduous, but to start allow one. So we got some more great stuff common. We're not done yet Saint Absolutely, not I'm not surprised at all the very prolific again, and so is frank, and so we

It will be looking forward collectively to the black Panther Other stealing men have the actual title of the first volume, stealing Manhattan. What about the above regular doing, but where doing over the valley, I put you they titles, can't figure, given that we come up with the titles. The title of the job was hidden a bucket. We going to call a volume above the authorities and any help really had there finger on the pulse. Here they thought of doing more to crime. Yeah, really they'll do is less and less authors anyway, the certainly one right. I love you. Have it.

RO. I wanna. Thank you. So much for joining me for the Bureau Bear retrospective. It's been an absolute pleasure even just touching on some of the stories that comprise the nine again classic your grand books and, as you say more become I wanna. Thank you very much. Bro come on my boy, you take this rather me tell us a little bit about your crime on Saturday. Just before I let you go Grandma sensitive live every Saturday to be a bit of time out. Radio lived com, and then you can look do it Itunes tunes Spotify about thirteen other former were delivery systems. I use while I believe, as I tunes to listen to it and I find it irritating and aggravating childish. That's ok. We have the really good get like Ganz appearance. We get people

this week. So we have a good time would accrue rebels by Giovanni himself. Will teach him a lesson in his life. Like you, I might break you have a good time. Thank you very much world good night good night,

I'm John produce the economists: U S, editor and I'm a host of Newport cast about the twenty twenty elections and the road to power in America. Together with two of my american colleagues and whole cost of economists, correspondence around the world will take you through the ideas and the social changes that are shaping politics and what promises to be an exceptional election year will look at the long view and ask the big questions. What is the Trump administration actually achieved? What the central Democrats really believe it, and what kind of country is America going to be after November, will go beyond the headlines and horse race to delve deeper into the contest for the White House? Why it matters so that checks and balances of a global view on democracy in America, subscribe on, applicable costs caused or your hokosa start listening today,.