DEATH ON THE RIVER-Diane Fanning | True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers Transcripts

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Not talk radio. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them. Gacy Bundy Dahmer the night stalker Btk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening on the river, that's selling true crime, author Diane, fanning

Ansei, arrested for his murder. I dreamed hi, I'm Jay Farner CEO of Quicken Loans, America's largest mortgage lender. Let's talk credit card debt for a minute. If you feel you're carrying too much of it, you're, not alone the average household in the. U S carries over eight thousand dollars in credit card debt, ready for some good NEWS with a cash out refinance from Quicken loans. You can quickly and easily put some of the equity in your home to good use by paying off a lot of that high interest credit card debt. A great way to take cash out is with our thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken to learn how taking cash out with a thirty year fixed mortgage might be the right solution for you and for a record nine years in a row. Jd power, his right Quicken loans highest in the nation in customer satisfaction for primary mortgage origination call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot. Com for getting our work for mission is a J part account rates of exchange. At one point, two five percent fee receive a discount rate off across information and conditions legalizing letter license in all fifty states, and one hundred thirty thirty got away a real life nightmare. It seemed like the perfect romantic afternoon a kayaking trip for two on the Hudson River, but it ended in tragedy when beautiful blonde Angelica Glass Walled called nine one one to report that her fiance, the handsome and athletic Vincent via for have fallen into the choppy frigid waters authorities assumed it was an accident when the bereft bride to be posted videos of herself doing cartwheels on social media shortly before Vincent's body was found. Suspicions of murder rose to the surface after hours of questioning Angelica made several shocking admissions. She said she felt trapped and fed up with Vincent demanding sexual lifestyle

the nightlife to strip clubs, the three ways I wanted him dead. She had said, even though she insisted that she didn't kill him. It is more lurid. Details emerged, including a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy. I kill her question, remained: did Angelica, remove the plug of her fiance's boat and knock away his paddle as he sank. The book they were featuring this evening is death on the river, my fiance's dark secrets and a kayak trip turned deadly with my special gas journalist and author Diane fanning welcome back to the program, and thank you so much for agreeing to this interview, Diane, fanning,

It is a pleasure to be here talking with you again Dan, it's an absolute pleasure to have you back on Diane, especially this book again. You've outdone yourself once again with death on the river. Let's talk about how you came to be the author of death on the river, what brought you to this story? How did you come to be the author of death on the river? Well, it seemed like something that was very different and had a lot of questions to it and being the nosey person. I am, I wanted to find answers, and so I started working on it. A trip up

She and look the river, and I tell you when you stand by the side of that river and local cross to Bannerman Island. To me, it looked like a very from getting kids to travel, and that was when the war pardon me, other part was cut off. So I said that you get when I looked across there, even though the river was called at the time. It looks like a very for betting distant. It's not something I would even think about trying. Yes, certainly well, let's get right to this, because, as you do in the book, you take us right to this incident, that April nineteenth out to the

and fifteen. So let's talk about Vincent V afforded forty six year old and his fiancee Angelica Grounds Walled be right that they set off from their home in Poughkeepsie New York on the side of the Hudson River, with the pair kayaks jealous of his planned trip, and when it was in talks more about this, as you do in the beginning of the book, this is a very beautiful spring day. It was early in the season for kayaking each one of those days that was so beautiful that it drove a lot of people into the outside. In reporting the war to end and brilliance of the sun. That day and Vincent injure angels were no exception. Hi act and headed out the stop a fast food place and that something to eat, and then they headed south and turned in to Wilderness Park kind of area along the river between the highway in the river sh. One point: good pot for setting the kayak in the water to travel across each.

They went across to Bannerman Island, which is a very small island, but it has ruins of what was an arsenal and it looks like a castle and once glorious mansion on on the island, and it was a place that on many times before she volunteered to work on the garden sarris warm weather, disable it kayaked before they went over to the island, and Angelica had along some lingerie, and she was trying it on and taking provocative pictures and all they had a nice afternoon towards the end of the third trip over there. They tried to take the car. I act around the back of the island, but we all know I would.

The weather was starting to turn stormy and they couldn't because of that, I'd get back there. So instead they went back around and went back into the island, but then they saw the ominous clouds are rolling in and the daylight was fading and they decided that yeah, maybe they better head on back well, the husband is a title river, so you get a lot of waves on it when the storm churns it up and it turns very rough very readily and they started heading back and at First Vince thought it was a lot of fun. He was like riding rapids and they were going back and suddenly Vince was in for his kayak, had taken on water and was starting to think next thing. He was in the water. The spring day had been very deceiving because the water.

He was still very cold she and when he fell in that water, without a wet suit, on SH, hi to Jeremy, a storage shed and almost immediately, she and Jay were all

In the water I usually go was still under cry. Act by Vince was losing control of all of his muscles and was becoming harder and harder for him to preach and for some reason Angelika talk he or she, his kayak paddle and a fresh new to the side of her boat. At one point she said she took it away from him and then she tried to walk back out of it say you gave it whatever the case she that one half hour watching struggle and before she called nine one one sh, and that is the most damning fact in this case. In my opinion, she said she did nothing. If I were out on the water with someone I love I most certainly will

I've done anything to try and save their life. I'd even risk my own to do it angelee contingent. She just sat in my kayak and then Wash was on the phone with nine one one. She said she couldn't see him anymore and they told her to start paddling towards the yacht club. There was a boat coming out to rescue her. She started doing that, but when she saw the bone approaching, she intentionally overturned her own kayak and when asked about that later, she said. Well, I wanted to say that I had fried things is life, but when they rescue boat went out, they brought in Angelika, but they could not find any sign of fence.

He the information that you just mentioned about the twenty minutes. None of this information is known right away when she called nine one one right from the beginning of right from the very beginning when she called nine one one, and then this rescue unit comes out there. There are things that personnel notice immediately. How can you tell us some of those things that they notice immediately in terms of her demeanor behavior and then howls slowly or quickly? It unravels some of the inconsistencies that she says: two different lot of enforcement officials, one thing that what while they were still trying to rescue him achieve this block and she repeatedly said that she had dropped her callous into the rooms are all right. While she was being put on a gurney and being taken toward ambulance police officer there heard of some ringing in her bag when he tried to look in her bag, she stopped and she wouldn't let him look in her bag, and so that was one six. Why would you let the police have that much better okay, exact spot we'll get into the waters which you wouldn't? Let them know that and she continued in that behavior after she was taken to hospital. Thankfully doctor went there and he tried a couple times a look in her bag and she kept sitting up suddenly looking at him and ask him what he was doing and it was interfering with her being treated for hypothermia because of her short time in the water. She already had all the symptoms of hypothermia, so that was something that was a bit disturbing, but it didn't really are immediately point to her as having done something wrong. Everybody was giving her the benefit of the doubt at first number, one. There was a grease issue number two, it's just because so also it right away. She was truly suspicious things. Everybody wanted to treat her as if she just slow

lost a loved one and she was treated very gently initially, but when she went down of when they were doing the search for events along the river, she showed up not everyday, but a lot of the days and she was not really searching. She was treating it more like a party, a social experience and she was giving away items that belonged to Vince. Now, when you think somebody just missing, you don't start giving their stuff away, it was very alarming to the people who over heard her like ten sis sister, something wasn't right and they started out being supportive of her. But she totally chewed away at their lack of suspicion. The voice, on the other hand, one we're hearing any of these things, and-

and even when our she said, we're going to have all eight eight eight get together to all remember fit at his favorite restaurant and she invited to police. They didn't go and the people that were gray her will be starved by her behavior was around talking everybody acting happy d d x y. What is absolutely devastated, she was great and it was done. Difference was dark. I could not understand how his ex wife could be grieving so badly and Angelica, which age legal rather was walking around. Acting like it was a big event calls for her, and so the friends and family were starting to have lots of questions and did your sister even called where the investigators to express our concerns. She asked her Angelika get a call we'll in her backyard. It wasn't like. She was grieving at all. You introduce some very, very fascinating characters. Detective de Cuarto he's a state police. Investigator data got a call from my trooper bitter cold, which told him of the missing Kayak mission Kayaker, and so he had asked Freeman to talk to Angelica. So this is a first person and you talk about

detective, the quarrel and his approach to Angelica and the questioning tell us what her reasoning or the reason for Vincent, not having not only a body suit in that at the end and that time of the year, but also he like fast. What's your explanation, she said they only brought one with SAM and since insisted she wear it which does sound like something since would do you, but still it's all lies. There was only one alright, an experienced hijacker. He knew he should have a a like fast. What happened to that other lifespan? That's a question that will probably never be answered because we can't ask them quiz show all she. She insists that it was all because of events that he didn't have a life jacket. All you had was that little flotation device that double as a seat cover in the cardiac you talk about that did extensive search, incredible search with professionals and volunteers and friends and family. At some point.

Helicopters, different county police departments in working in cooperation with each other, but the Hudson River is problematic in them, predicting where his body might turn up and, as a result, the search continued for quite a while the net it continued for weeks, and they it was our because the Hudson is a tidal rivers. So that means it sort of changes direction, and- and so, when you like, with a lot of bodies of water, you can right correction, a body like globally and be because you can shorten it well. The Hudson can't be charted so well because he could have gone either way, and so they had to keep broadening in Grozny it and they have helicopters. They had people walking along the shoreline they had. Besides getting so raw, are ordered throat again we're doing everything they could to try to find your body well part of the problem that we had with the water which effectively so called sh, and that also provided a problem for this search because it isn't what the Hudson River, all wouldn't you wouldn't get so cold bodies go down to the bottom and they grow up com up until the weather gets a little warmer. You talk about include in this book that and Jellico her former name Angelica Lips got you provide for us that she was born in Riga, Latvia. Can you tell a little bit of the history of its relation with Germany, Germany? So let's talk about a little bit about her upbringing and especially the very, very interesting and, of course, relevant former marriage and relationship background on Angelica. Yes, she was raised in pretty of big situation of poverty. Our date, her family, didn't have much money and not needing to know good just because they were behind the iron curtain. When Angelika was born show day, all they were just surviving. Basically, when the iron curtain was lifted, things did get a little bit better and far as the hopefulness return to the people, and it was when that happened Angelika was able to start having dreams that she could police might come through. She and her big dream was to go to the United States before the curtain lifted when she was around ten. Nobody could count on ever doing that and once it was up, she could drink back and when he got old enough, she immediately went and applied for a visa to go to the United States start looking for a job manning and she got one with family in New Jersey, and so she went over to the United States with that job. She had been there really long when this guy came in to repair the furnace and Angel Leica and he hit it off right away and before you know it, she was getting married and and Sean was taking her away from our old drummer nanny job that marriage didn't last very long at all. It was a tumultuous from the very beginning to sudden and they didn't really know each other as

That relationship ended. She let a man who had Ridgecrest well to that very prosperous, concrete business and nod with decorative concrete products available, and she was married to him and when she got a job at the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Museum Digitalized thing a lot of the records they had stored there. She she was growing up, use all the Presidential museum and did you been working on making digital stuff that could go on line each and right? She girl into the air, and she would stay during the week and then the whole house that on the weekend well, by being there, she ended up going to a lot of the different bars in the area on her evening sauce, and it was due in doing

After she met another guy that she really liked, and she suddenly decided to leave her husband and she sent a message to the sky and say: hey I'm leaving my husband. While he was kind of odd that she she would inform him of this.

Because it is hard to even concerned she was just an occasional liaison and then much to his surprise. He comes and knocks on the door and say she's moving in well. He was kind of a really laid back guy, so you got okay great. You can move and no big deal. That's what happened and it was very strange because she kind of thought she should be a kept woman and he objected to the head and he said: she's got to get a job either one supports the buyer, a car, so she could get to work. So we did that, but then they went to the Beatles Convention and he had to to drink and because of that he could perform sexually. So as far as angel weaker was concerned, because he couldn't do that on that one time he was a grown man and she moved in separate bedrooms then met this other guy. Who was a photographer and next thing. You know she's, leaving the House

Irving in with this guy that sister and he would you send all- kicked out of his sister's house because they didn't want him bringing other people in. I really enjoy like we're living by the river and where and all formerly Van decided he bought this car anyone car back. He doesn't want her driving it. He returned it, but then Angelika wanted a cat. They hatch, and he said you can't- live in a tent and she and to the point of breaking down in the drive way and refusing to leave, go to work and how he agreed to let her have the cat. So she took the cat that didn't last long either she ended up bringing the cat practice yeah limited, can't not a good place tried to deal with the cat. So then, after him I am. I never could figure out exactly when he stated that Adam being.

But she went to take photographs at a fundraiser event that Vince was tending to sue and that's where they met and the two of them all kinda hit it off. He had a good job, so that was very promising to her and she thought she had. Somebody else to might take care of her and advance was smitten. With this exotic perky woman, who spoke

and durable access and before you knew it, he had gotten an apartment that you could move into it and his friends who were shot because it wasn't that long that his second marriage ended and they thought that he was going to stay single for a long time. That's what he said he was going to do. She just wasn't going to settle down for awhile, should the Kerry weld on settling down and before long he was proposing to Angelika and they were going to get married and what really shocked some of his friends was when he said I want to have a child with her. She because he knew that was something he'd always said. You didn't want to do so. They figured. You must really be in love.

There's also another thing that would be disturbing later: hello, one people found out, and but there was according to Vincent a reason for it, even though they weren't married, he decided to put her and neighbors a beneficiary on those insurance policies and would help yet and eight yeah, and he is at his work when you're not married and you want to get live in partner. Put on your medical insurance. All you have to do a certain number of things to crew the commitment of the relationship, and one of them was to put her on his life insurance policy, and he did that all because he it bothered him that she didn't have any healthcare coverage. He wanted her to it. So that's what you get and it you know it hi give theory, it's it's almost like set! Okay. If you get somebody on your life insurance policy, don't let them know about it. You know it's like a like a little red flag, because that, but is believed, was part of her motivation, for wanting did call on never.

What was she also complained about what go ahead? Sorry. She also complained about the fact that she went to strip clubs and the fact of the matter. Once there were others, you knew that she had gone to strip clubs with girlfriends before so it's not like that was something that looked alien to your car. Although she tried to make it sound like you walk sh, and then she talked about three well, there was never any real car here message from her get your three some actually happened. So that leaves a big question worth three. Some distance chairman seeking forms in any like all about you can

seem likely ever actually went through it sh and if so, just having a fantasy, it's not like you're doing anybody wrong. So I you know each lot of what she said can make two killers. Sad as as you tax use, make you on jet, which, as you read the book convinced has a sort of all bumpy pastor will say a history. That's not without incident. What tell us a little bit about Vincent's past and the characteristics of of that. But overall, what is the impression from family and friends of Vincent. Get too much. I really really nice guy one of his problems once that he was generous to a fault he would give people stuff he would buy

I drinks for people at bars. He would let him borrow his car. He he was a bit of a spendthrift, but a lot of it was for others not not for himself, and you can't get into financial trouble and have to file for bankruptcy because of the way he did not watch his money very well. So you know that that that was problematic, but it seems like he learned his lesson because in early April two thousand and fifteen he gave Angelika.

Mhm, eventually Kerr had planned wedding where they go over to lax your merry on the beach there with your family around and then they would come back to the United States and have a big party in a boat on the Hudson River celebrating their marriage, and so that's an expensive proposition and the Angelika hadn't been working for a long time now and Jim said, you've got to get a job. You've got to work.

The marriage is off. He didn't want to get into all that dead. Again. He didn't want to go down that road, but Angel Eagle with a little bit resentful of the fact that he expected her to work. Let's use this as an opportunity Diane just to stop for a second to talk about our sponsor, which is Shutter AMC networks. Shutter is a premium streaming. Video service super serving fans of all degrees, with the best selection of horror and thrillers shutters, irrepressible and thriving community rebels in all things, provocative,

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free for thirty days, go to charter dot com and use promo code. Slash true s: h: U D, D, e r shudder Now then, when we last left off, we were talking about Vincent and the situation that had changed where she believed Angelica believe that she was going to get married. Now they go on this trip and now the police, U Quarto is questioning her. You would let's get back to this masterful attempts to try to get this woman to come and tell the truth about what really happened that day in April, two thousand fifteen. What happens next in this incredible search and case? Well, it was Saturday and the police went out.

You are the island and they were searching around the island going around the edges, making sure the body hadn't ended up there on the island and and just getting a feel for the place. Angelique also came there that day the broader reach to put on the water in dentures memory. She when she arrived, the police were talking to her and all there were three of them. There, three investigators and they were all talking to her and then a little ways into it. It became clear that she was getting uncomfortable because some of the information she wanted to talk about seem to be personal, so they let her go off with two quark tend to talk to him alone and he was her choice for the one to talk to a live show, and she told him that she had removed the plug in a kayak that she had taken. The ring off here, hi to all which held the two halves of it together and that you know she was very unhappy with the relationship and wanted to be free. Well, you do Quarteto realized significance of what she was saying and wanted to take her back to the barracks and she agreed to go back for further questioning. She went and told the other officers and they all got on to the boat and Angelika didn't protest. She wasn't handcuffed nothing. She went right on the boat with them sh and as they pulled away from the dock, she laid back in the wind and shouted I'm free, I'm free, which was a kind of wanting to say considering the circumstances, but she drove back to the to the police barracks within the state investigators and went into an interrogation the situation she was at asked about her Miranda rights. The whole thing was right to where she sighed them away in agree to talk to them and she went on and on about her relationship with ranch and how she felt it was too controlling it. You want to be free. Thank you for your call on and.

It was just dawning to the police. It was a confession that she had deliberately quality interest that to her attorney later. It was not a confession and he said when she asked who's Maranda. That meant she did not understand the Miranda Warning, but actually, if you listen to it in context, she was merely asking a historical questions like why is it named after more rain to what does that mean? So they didn't give defense lawyers really clever and trying to make it look like she had limited understanding of English, what she'd been working in the public and you're working as a waitress working as a hostess working as a bartender, and she never had any communicate your problems with any of those people at sites that she had gone to community college and graduated with honors in English. So obviously language proficiency wasn't really a problem alright and he the whole frame that was contrary to the defense attorney as an accident. But what she said to the lease did not make it sound like an accident at all. It sounds like she very opportunistic Lee took advantage of a the weather situation and did not come to the aid of, and she actually said, he's gone he's dead and I'm glad you have an incredible amount. Exchanges in here amount of exchanges between the cargo and other interrogators when there are, and then they're shark is and there's the quarter with different approaches, and she responds to the actual these detectors differently. But it's incredible game on a time that is used utilized to hammer home to try to get to the specifics, because it's

circumstantial cases certain agreed to try to get her to admit. Like you said in the right she's once she says she wanted to be free, she was tired of the demands run gave up upon her. She eventually get her to agree. I admit that she was mad, that that the engagement that you wanted to have children. She wanted to get married and looks like the marriage was not going to happen. So that's what the police in in that interrogation room over a period of days we're trying to do the label. We got our lines that securely that they have enough information to be able to present to the prosecutor and that prosecutor finally filed charges for second degree murder and for manslaughter. Interestingly, yes- and I think it was in some state your own, while trying to include lesser charges in New York state is one of those

show that in that for the purpose, if he, if he does, the jury, has difficulty seeing second degree murder, there's a lot to charge. You can fall back. One sure What did you think? The big regal convocation in this whole case was not a trial, it was the hearing.

Do you harm and whether or not statements to the police? Three all submitted, as as evidence in a trial in this sense, was fighting against that tooth and nail, and there were five days of of of testimony on that question, and that was really the candle question or if they want to a trial. I I don't see how the prosecution could have gone forward if they were to not hide needing that Kate from the interrogation room to the trial. So it was very, very important and it was five hm questioning. In the end, the judge agreed that it could be submitted at trial, and now you had eight, you said he wasn't sure they would win and you had a prosecution. You had a largely circumstantial case, hey kind of rolling concession, because both why we're not confident in the wind it was there and that plea bargaining bargaining starting. I would, I would say,

what what I saw in this. What I read in this as well is that he didn't have a public defender and a very, very interesting Lee. There was a kind of question- and I guess just just a shocker audience further in debt, that this insurance claim under New York State LAW. If there were a murder or manslaughter, it wasn't clear cut that the the person like like someone like Angelica would not be available bills. I pay out in insurance would not be available to or not clear cut and this and we, this is an important issue later when we find out jet. One point Angelica said that she would not be are petitioning we're trying to get any of the proceeds from those insurance policies, but that changed tell us about state law in terms of whether it's even possible for someone like Angelica to collect on those insurance policy quite well. It was real clear that you could not use their wallets. Alan. The conviction and Jack became of concern to the attorney,

because the defense attorney had documents mirror where she signed over anything. She got from the insurance would automatically go to the defense attorney and he was saying that it was about. One million dollars is what it what charges were accrued in in presenting her case so.

Sorry more than Angelika had a vested interest in doing that. License Torrance, and so he very carefully went to

why this had to end in a plea agreement and what was that plea agreement you play agreement was reach to be called zero of g on certain key under construction prosecutors. Do you not want to let someone totally walk, free and with the jury? That is always a risk, and all okay, more on certain xray can get a conviction on either the second degree, murder or manslaughter sh, and because of that uncertainty they worked with the defense. You have a plea agreement that would get her at least some time in person and they came up with a lesser homicide, charge negligee.

And negligent homicide, and unfortunately, with that it had never born or to see if the laws that prevent someone from inheriting insurance money would all holed up in a in a charge. At a lesser charge like that, she and it was thought that it would, but that apparently were to miss. Steak and thought, because she ended up benefiting indirectly from getting life, insurance, money and didn't go to her attorney, but it did not all go to the family. They got some of it, but so did Angelica. I found it interesting and again I hate to beat up on attorneys, because everybody will saves all they're just doing their job, but this one was extraordinary in that

Least was allowed for Angelica to make it make people believe, including the family of Vinson's family, that she wouldn't go after that money.

And then conveniently that we don't know as you right, we don't know exactly how much he received, but all of that money went to the lawyers any like you say it was one million dollars where the defense and what I read in this, as opposed to say, duty counsel representation in this kind of case, regardless of how experience that lawyer is that this lawyer for money in effect for money, basically accomplish something that I think the reader would find incredible and unbelievable. There was no proof of the course confession. There was no proof that she couldn't under understand English. In fact, she was very fluent in English. There was no proof that, but these are the best charges that they could lay on. Here was his criminal negligence causing the death of this person, but everybody in that court from every impact statement and even the statements from the judge. Clearly, this woman was

even killed either but she's getting protesting. Her love for him and- and it kind of reminds me of that song by amy- can be years back that he says, killing doesn't make it go away. Yeah. You write also again is not a quest for justice, but people are looking for some kind of recourse. Mccourt's October, twenty seventh, two thousand seventeen Vince's family files, a wrongful death suit against Angelica and State Supreme Court Judges county. As of now. What does the status of that? I think that it's all been wrapped up and it was wrapped up in some sort of greatness. While insurer's money can be divided and- and I think your entry- he have family realized, he was kind of feudal, because none of the insurance money was ever going to go to actually get anyway. So she couldn't give it back. Yeah, yes, for this book, you as usual- and this is the fourteenth or the fifteenth, true crime book that you've read fifteen yes, yes, fifteen graduations, who are the some of the people that you had access to that. I think I can answer this question, but I'm asking you what what is the some of the people, some of the characters that were essential if you have access to to really be able to write this book? One van because he was a lifelong friend was extremely helpful. To me and giving me are, are a lot of information and and a lot of two stories about it and and another person who is very helpful, was his mother and I got very die K. There's you probably think it's helpful Paul in Ames discovering exactly to Vince March, and you know he was really a great guy. You know he would be perfect, but he good to his friends. He had so many friends. It was just unbelievable from elementary school on forward everywhere. He went he made for it. He was crazy and irreverent and he'd be damned funny dance moves. Then he brightened everybody up and he gave his current coded fight it down and talk to them, art to heart she and tried to help.

And he was a good guy. What's interesting to you talk about, he is such a good guy enters and in your book is really, I think I think, anybody's involved with this and would be happy with the depiction of them. But what's interesting and disturbing really is that the media were able to attend this this hearing, and yet you get a February two thousand and eighteen, twenty twenty updated show about Angelica's case and Richard Foretell was interviewed, the defense attorney and he talked about the missing gone.

So here we are only to harp on this, but Jennifer after the fact he still is still trying to cast doubt on his client's guilt, but using such a, I don't know defenseless ploy. Yes, thank you tend to go on with. The answer is very simple: the missing garden was deal with your sex life and it still wasn't really missing it. Just wasn't in the house in here and all you know he he say in that. You know that's why G reach researching yeah now what what David Ortiz dabbling, where that gun was before they ever went out on the island and I'll. Tell you right now from talking to the investigators the end of it. It's really clear that if they had ever thought that a gun had been used, the death of the stand Jane would have been out to that island. Lickety split SH! Thank you right back there, basically grasping for straws. If they could find on that island answer the questions they had a gun was involved. That would be the first place. They went.

As a seemingly psychopathic as this person Angelica is, it is also interesting when you look at everything in the end results that if she were to be a little bit more careful a little a little smarter about things, we would know even the three quarters of the truth that we know today with with yeah. In fact gay and if she had port of, I am going to show you one grief. She acted like it mattered to her death. When did you may think that it mattered to her regions when she said that ed? If she can just don't wanna bet, no one would have ever for all thought that there was a problem that he was anything but an accident. What was her behavior and the things she said, the police,

that that brought the the eyes of justice down upon her. She brought that on because she was carrying the guilt. She knew she done wrong by him and she couldn't even fake it. It was interesting to she got a photographer 'cause. Of course he was interested in photography and have so she met some of these people through some of her interest, singing playing guitar, and so anyway, with this she was. I saying she definitely was interested in the attention that she got an Anna's result. She said things and did things and the cartwheel in the backyard was one thing, but she took another photo of a cartwheel. Again, you say cartwheels are expressing some kind of joy and kind of the opposite of what you should be feeling, but she also posted a strange full

sure. You know it. It is just speak so much of the danger and that she would put that up at that time really was disturbing and she just you know I I I don't understand a lot of what she did and, to be honest, it's trying to understand the motivation of sociopath is difficult, trying to understand how how someone can be so consumed by narcissistic ceilings is hard to understand. So I guess it's it's good that I don't understand it or maybe that would say something ugly about me, but you know it's still. You know it's hard to wrap your mind or ray

around how a sociopath mind works, and it's it's very disturbing and and very tragic. You know, then, should. She'll be around. You should still be with us. He should still

Given his mother all go on mother's day and the fact, ninety years, it's just tragic, yes, well, we certainly do get a very vivid glimpse into the into a sociopathic killer's mind. I want to thank you very much Dan for coming on and talking about death on the river, a fine. She also used dark secrets in a kayak trip turns deadly for those people that might want to look at other work. We talked about this being your fifteenth street crime book for twenty six books overall or twenty seven zero website facebook page they might take a look at your website- is Diane fanning dot com and I am Facebook, dot com, slash diet. I have my regular age and I also I'm a true crime book page. They look up absolutely. Thank you very much Dan. It has been an absolute pleasure talking about death on the river. You have a great evening, and I know we'll be talking to you again real soon. Thank you

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