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Tripoli, thanks you for being there with loyalty, rewards like when you get savings on triple a auto insurance, just for being a triple a member, and when you switch to triple a auto insurance, you could save more based on how long you've been a triple a member and how long you've had your current insurance insurance. Not just insurance, learn more about triple a auto insurance and loyalty, rewards click now or visit Tripoli, dot com, slash insurance. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about them: DC, Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer, true crime, history, room murder with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening.

Critically acclaimed author Catherine Casey delivers a riveting account of the brutal murders of young women in the I've. Forty Texas killing fields over three a decade spanned more than twenty women men teenagers died mysteriously in the small towns bordering Interstate forty five Fifty mile stretch of highway running from Houston to Galveston. The victim was strangled shot or savagely beaten, sing, met their demise in pairs. They had one thing in common being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The day she vanished, Collette Wilson waited for her mother after band practice. Best friend Debbie, Ackerman and Maria Johnson love to surf and were last seen, hitchhiking, Laura Eight Smith dreamed of becoming a ballerina and disip You're just weeks before her 13th birthday,

in this harrowing true crime, Exposition award, winning journalist, Catherine Casey Track These tragic cases in the gates, the evidence interviews the suspects and pulls back Cloak of secrecy in sir of elusive answers. Book that we are featuring this evening is deliver us three decade. Is of murder an redemption. The infamous I forty five Texas killing fields with my sp Special gas journalist and author Kathy from Casey Welcome back to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview. Catherine, Casey Thank you for inviting me Dan. I'm happy to be here. Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to have you on the program and you're one of the audience favorites I've got to say, and but that's just based on some fantastic books over the last few years, since this program has begun let's get to this infamous

Texas, killing fields and tell us about I, forty five and the area that we're talk. In about encompassing this three decade: long story to tell us about the Texas killing fields. Where is this area that they're referring to tell us a little bit about this interstate forty five I forty five runs all the way from Dallas down into down to Galveston and the area where I'm looking at in the book is south of Houston, urban area going on to Galveston Island, it's about a fifty mile stretch and over a period of three decades. Actually it extends longer than that. But in the book I looked at three decades: the 70s, the eighty in the 90s. There were many girls who disappeared in and around that area who were murdered and I back in the 1990s, the Houston Chronicle and the gal

Justin Daily NEWS started running pictures of the girls I live in a Houston area and I started seeing them and as a journey, List I was just intrigued. I wanted to know what happened with them, so I started doing some investigating but This area transition area question island. There are a lot of vacationers there's a lot of partying there's the beach is their spring break, the area, farther up going a little bit n there. A lot of small communities there about eleven different law enforcement agencies in this area between all the different cities, with their police department's three different county sheriff's offices and then gps and other branches of law enforcement. So it's uh. Kind of a hack, Each of small towns over the years as Houston's grown they've grown, but back in the 70s when this book began. When the case is in this book began the fur

once this was rather quiet area filled with a lot of small towns now you basically start the incredible story, tragedy. April 27th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy one. Sixteen year old girl, sunbathing on EAST Beach, plus about this first incident one thousand nine hundred and seventy one well. This was just I mention I found in the Galveston newspaper and a girl was attacked on the beach that day she escaped, but but after that it seemed as if things started to build as if there was a momentum as if this attack were kind of a foreboding event in what was to It wasn't long after that that collect Wilson disappeared that was on June 17th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy one. She was

in Alvin TX on the mainland, a little farther up, and she was waiting for a mother after band practice? It was at one. Unusual back in the 70s. You know Dan nowadays, if we don't let our children do many of the things that kids did back in the 70s and the 80s and 90s we're more pretty there we know more about these things, but back then in small town Texas, small town, USA, small towns around the world, lot I didn't really understand that there were dangers out there, so when Claire both and let collects fan on the side of the road for five minutes. She didn't foresee the there was any danger involved in that. Not like you say it was a different time the they had a big house sold. She had literally left her. It was a time period of six minutes. Even back in those days when they were what we can sitter careless today, six minutes

and her father Tom. So what is what is do at this time when they they but Leave that their daughter is missing. Well, they rip corded Colette missing almost immediately and the police just didn't receive, one very well, which would become kind of universal in a lot of these stories. They they and immediately assumed to the police immediately assumed that collect was a runaway or I collected, wandered off with a friend and would be back so they did very little. They clear remembers them. Standing out on the highway were collided, disappeared. Talking as if they were waiting for the person who take and collect to bring her back? So, cool is done by law enforcement, so Tom started his own search as well as the neighbors in the area. A lot of them came to the aid of the Wilson, who are very popular

very well loved in the Albany area, Tom was a local dentist, uh unfortunately, they found they didn't find any clues, but Tom never stopped looking. He kept looking for Colette now, a month later in July, one thousand nine hundred and seventy one talk about a crew on on a scaffolding pain. Being near Pelican Island Bridge, discovered nothing so tell us what they discovered. They saw something bobbing in the water and the waves on the distance, and they watched it float in an when it got closer to the bridge. They realized that it was a body that called police and the body of Brenda Jones Fourteen was pulled out of the out of the water she Been reported missing the evening before by her family Brenda had gone,

to visit her aunt at the hospital and had not returned home. Now with the continuing with with Claire and and Tom What is the? How does The show the incredible grief that Tom and Claire are experiencing what what this time go to look for his daughter? Well, he he gets to a certain point and he decides the police aren't looking So when the leads coming in Louisiana in different areas, Tom goes an he at knighted. The family gathers around the bed and they pray for Colleton may ask Saint Michael to bring her home and the whole family is just eating up by what's happening, but they feel helpless as most parents would. It seems that there's just so little day, do they do come up with a reward? There was also

Our reward put up to Brenda Jones by people in the Galveston, but you know and no real leads came in. How is Brenda found. We just passed over that that it's very it's very important. How was Brenda found in terms of her hands in her inner inner ankles? had been. She was nude from waist down and hurt to take and she had she was wearing. What was there popular in those days. They were kind of these roman sandals with long straps. That lays Prosser up to Ernie and and tied in the front right, I had Tornos off of her shoes and use them to bind your hands and her ankles. So how to police? Please do admit that there's a kidnapping likely with. Collette Wilson, so how

police proceed with this investigation and the branch The Jones, obviously there's no connection made at this early. Your point but tell us out. Please proceed well You know they didn't connect him for a variety of reasons. One was that collect was white and Brenda was black Brenda was on Galveston Island Collette was up in the mainland and Alvin. So now didn't tie them together for quite awhile and police tried. Send out flyers. They did start the reward, but the fan summaries, really felt that there wasn't the effort may that they wanted to see especially Brenda's family. They felt that since they you know lower income and and lived in the projects in Galveston that that Brenda's disappearance didn't get the attention it should. Now you talk about you, introduce

Of course, we have a host of characters that you introduce and you talk about a character named Johnny Wicks. Tell us about this gentleman and his relation to this K. So far,. Well, Johnny was actually a a woman and she was married to SAM and they had the ski shop in Galveston, where kids would go and they would water ski. They had an old boat off the back of the house and they would take them skiing enough. It's by you and the next two girls who disappeared, sharing, Shaw and Rhonda. Renee Johnson were last seen at the Wicks ski shop. That day they had gone in and they had been there, not frequently but off and on over the over that summer, and they They went wanting to water ski, but the water was too rough and Mitch Lyrics told them that no, they couldn't go out and.

So the girls took Bob and they were seen walking towards 61st first street, which is one of the main streets. It goes down to the Gulf. They they were talking about going down to the beach to meet some friends and they just disappeared. Now one of their parents So what was their response to this? To the two girls missing the two separate families responses to the girls missing, will sharing and Rhonda had talked off and on about, running away to Malibu they they would the girl what kind of on the edge a little bit they getting into getting into a a little bit. The the 1970s counterculture that was going on so they were a little bit on the wild side and they were having a pretty pretty fun summer. They were both fourteen years old Ann.

And so when they disappeared, the parents were really concerned, but the friends thought that they had probably leave at Broadway and sharing which has gone off to Malibu. Is it always said they would they were there surfing somewhere? So there was no really big search mounted, except by Sharons mom, he spent quite a bit of time, driving one of their friends around looking at the places the girls frequented trying find her daughter. But where to no avail. There were no clues. And came up again. It was at the girl. It was as if the girls it just disappeared. Now is there it? White Van spotted at that time by by witnesses, or is this the next to grow set that have the witness testify that there was a white van, people in the area. That's the next to girl.

A girl named Gloria Gonzalez and nineteen year old, grocery store bookkeeper. She worked at a Kroger store, disappeared on Oct in October, one thousand nine hundred and seventy one she was the next to disappear. So at that point over From June to October, there are five girls who I'm missing in and around the Galveston, his South Houston area, then in November, transaction and get the man I had left the house that Debbie was staying over at Maria's house and they were, They went to a Baskin and Robbins ICE Cream shop in Galveston Island Debbie had low little suitcase with her, because she's been at Maria's house the night before and they had a brief conversation with a girl, they knew worked in the shop and that girl saw them outside hitchhiking afterward and the girls saw her salt. The true girls, Debbie and Maria get into

a white van with a peace sign on the back, interesting That would please do with that information and Was there a komposit done, for the was a witness be able to make a copy of the driver of that bad at all. Fortunately no damage. The driver was and seen it all by the witness. Just the van and there were some conflicting report, immediately there worth it. Some things came in that weren't, true In a girl, a few weeks earlier had been accosted by a driver of a green pickup truck and so our report went out for a green pickup truck and and no one really put two and two together. They they started. Looking.

For Debbie and Maria the following day, their their their parents started. That night actually started making phone calls, but they were reported missing by both families the next day and in this instance police. Yes, said that it. You know it could possibly be that the girls had run away, but they did start to look right. It wasn't that until a few days later, though, that things became pretty serious and that's when the girls bodies were found floating in a by you north of the area where they disappeared,. Now tell us who they found in what was the condition and what was the likely or the Evidente murder method when those bodies that were found. The girls were sounds Maria and Debbie were found in a place called Turner by you. It's a lonely area? It's kind of oil land there's lease out there there's a well and they were

found in a uh. Didn't buy you which had water in it and they were underneath the bridge We found Maria's body first and she was right at the foot of the bridge he still had on her jewelry. She was still wearing this, the top that she had on the day before but she was nude from the waist down and her hands and ankles were tied. Just is Brenda Jones. Is it been months earlier. When she was found floating near the Pelican Island Bridge, then they mounted a search, after Maria was identified. They mounted a search and they found Debbie Ackerman's body, just a short distance away on the bank of the by you, and she was in similar condition. She her body was also bound at the legs at the ankles and at the rest, Both growth had been shot now. Tell us a little bit about Debbie.

Ackerman's funeral well, Debbie had been born on the island. They call it I on on in Galveston and so the and the family had a lot of friends, so She had a very large funeral, a lot of the kids showed up by then we've got seven missing, kids or girls in you know, have disappeared and or been murdered in the area so who were really on edge the families the parents were not letting their kids out. There was a lot of talk of somebody. They called the purple passion killer because both mirror, beyond Debbie had been wearing kind of maroon or burgundy sweaters when they disappeared and collect Wilson had on purple shorts. The girls themselves, image. Girls who showed up kind of took refuge are trucks

dollars in what they saw as the girls being in situations they shouldn't have been in Maria Debbie, who are hitchhiking at the time, so you know, there's an uneasiness when something like this is going on. No one knows quite what's happening why it's happening who's doing it. They don't know who will be next, but you know they, They try to tell themselves it won't be them. You know that they're safe. You introduce an interesting character that inadvertently becomes really involved in the case that sheriff Buster Kern and he's interested in this case tell us about what he uncovers and again before we talk about this relentless sir, under by by TIM Wilson. Well, the share of went out

in January the following year, so it's about two months after the Ackerman and Johnson girls bodies were found and uh their body was found this time it was remains, it was skeletal remains, and it was in another by near Taylor Lake, which is farther north near Seacrest, not far from shoreline. The beach is going in the golf hey and it was identified as the, but as the remains of sharing Shaw and and they were up there looking for the remains of Renee Johnson and he helped he helped find those remains. Now, these again, it's it's interesting how you, the the police delta at first that these girls, are runaways aways. The families are adamant that the the these girls

would not have run away for any reason whatsoever. And they have these, relentless searches, tell us about this ongoing search that where police, initially search. Wilson believes that that they should be searched again in his effort to get that done. Well After after Debbie after the girls disappeared, collect Dad Tom Wilson keeps looking For Chal at an end, goes off into the woods, often with the neighbors in the area. Looking but really not you, know, finding any evidence until later her body is found near the Addicks Reservoir outside Houston along with the body of glory in Gonzalas, the Kroger bookkeeper.

Right and she in Gonzalas is found strangled as opposed to the other girls that have then found shot. That crown Hi Colette Wilson is that they, they believe, said that she was hit in the head they found when they founders skull. They found that that part of her skull was crushed with Gloria in Gonzalas. They believe that, yes, she was strangled. The body was Dick app hated when they found it, but they believed it was from decomposition not from anyone doing that not from the killer. You know decapitating or after her death, so yeah it. The girls were not all killed in the same way, but they were killed over a very brief period of time. I mean you're looking from just in nineteen. Seventy one there are seven girls in the area who who die right They talk about the public reaction

and then you also talk about the media reaction with iconic Journalists, like Walter, Cronkite, interviewing sure, Kern tell us a the public reaction and the media reaction to these missing women being found. Well, you know the the fear build throughout the entire area, not just in Galveston, county or South Houston, but throughout the Gulf Coast. People started to worry about your daughters So there was a lot of pressure being put on local law enforcement. And it wasn't long before people started to notice. I mean, as I said, you have these seven girls who disappear in nineteen, seventy one and they're all around the same age is the oldest one is glorianne guns, alas, but the other girls were all one thousand four hundred and fifteen or sixteen year olds, and

it was so they got together and all the law enforcement agencies started to get together to talk about the cases and pretty soon national media picked it up and it ended up on the evening news with Sheriff Kern saying fainted? He believe he'd found a man that they were going to make an arrest. Well, would turn out to badly does as many as all the leads that they came up. He was chasing. A lot of shadows. He you know, looking in the shadows, chasing go should not getting anywhere. You talk Both fifteen suspects were given lie, detector test during this time, and- and you had good suspects. There was various suspects. Are you name? The sosp The police named name that at that time, Harry Lanham Anthony Am Junior. Tell us a little bit about couple of the suspects and why they were suspects. Well,

Lantham and Napa were picked up for another murder of a woman that they they were tow truck drivers and they, given a woman, a lift after her car broke down at a convenience store. And they ended up killing her and while he was in prison after he was convicted, Lantham started talking about having committed some of the other crimes, saying that he was responsible for the other girls dad law enforcement went in and talked to him and walked out, didn't believe him. They didn't believe that he was actually guilty and then Colette's dad. Wilson went over there and talk to talk to him to sat down. And he came home that night and he told his wife. He told Claire that the man in prison was not the one who killed her daughter.

Yeah. Those that's an incredible point in your book, it's very incredible story, Anne what's interesting too, is four years later Harper talking Tom Wilson, as they say, died at forty two years of age. He had never stopped. Looking any died of a heart attack After that his wife believes he died of a broken heart and I wouldn't be surprised, This is so hard on these families. Then I mean it just rips them apart and I you know it's uh no one. No one ever wants to join it's just it's just heartbreaking. What they go through. So tell us about Glenda and Renee Johnson and Share Shaw. Tell us a little bit more about how the case progress. This is with police in the investigation. What I want

Girls bodies are fan, windshear and Renee's bodies are found up in Taylor. Lake up around Taylor by you, Glenda had been there. Good friend is called in to look at the jewelry. Well, the fam. The friends were so convinced that the girls had run away to Malibu and that they were surfing in it probably ended up up and hate ashberry up in San Francisco 'cause. This was the time of the whole hippie movement. Everything That out, when she looked at the jewelry, she looked at it and said: oh yeah, that's Thursday were my. My friends and the our officer had to tailor Repeatedly that they were dad and it still took a long time for it to sink, and she had a hard time believing it the family, at that point Renee's Rhonda Renee Johnson. Her fan,

He was very well positioned in the small town of Webster and her grand Father was the city councilman up there, and he was instrumental in pushing to get a new police chief in the area. In order to try to find out what happened to his granddaughter. And who is that new police chief that he pushed for well. He hired a dps. Trooper Ann and he was somebody who pray. Probably who had a little bit of a reputation in the areas being difficult with suspects. And he came in and there were two of them at that point that within no length of time at all focus their attention on a guy who worked at a local gas station, he was. This is back in the days before self serve gas were p

had where there were attendance at the gas stations, an myself with an attendant at a local gas station. He was uh little slow. You know he was he had minor brain injury, when he was a kid and was just a little slow and he was a little bit of a law enforcement hanger on who, like hang around at the police office, and he and the new police chief had gotten head words in the past and suddenly MIKE Cell phone suspect number one in the murders of Renee Johnson Insurance, Shaw. What was the reason why the he did become even a possible suspect. For the police. He had this run in with the police chief, the new police chief before, and he had a brief.

History where he'd been picked up as a peeping Tom, so that was one of the things that they dad at the time, but he was brought in for questioning and the testing one arm throughout the morning and before long he had signed confession saying that he had murdered the two girls. Now he is that first, confession just to the show or tell our audience how things proceeded did he ask for a lawyer, was he advised about a lawyer and talking about. There was one confession: according to that confession in review when they reviewed it. How close did it correspond with the physical evidence and you can then tell us about the second confession: whoa

well, there were problems with that. First confession: it didn't really correspond very well with the evidence. There were a lot of things in it that didn't couldn't have happened. The way the physical evidence said that that things happened MIKE was a poo wanted right after he was arraigned, he was appointed an attorney named Dewey Meadows and We called the police department and told them not to talk to MIKE but by the time do we got to the police station I had already signed at first confession, so the- when they got it alone in the room with Dewey and MIKE and MIKE's mom MIKE started, saying that he did he didn't, kill the girls and Dewey said well. Why did you sign the confession? And he said because that that police chief is crazy and I was afraid he was going to kill me. He pulled up his shirt and he

He showed a red spot on his abdomen where he said that he'd been struck with Billy Club, and then he started saying that the police chief, it played russian roulette with him in order to get him to sign the confession. Yes, very interesting to now there's a second confession in that second confession: how does it look compared to the first one when I ask what days, I notice that the confession didn't match the evidence. The first one so MIKE was brought back in for more questioning and he signed a second can fashion this time again, Julie Meadows was not told it is that is that his client was being questioned and but They did the new confession more closely matched the physical evidence MIKE. Is then taken down or taken up rather taken n too

Taylor Lake in Terra Taylor, by you, where he pointed out where he said he left the girls bodies, the the problem with that, Is the third being a hurricane had been actually two hurricanes in the area to years the year before the fall before after the girls disappeared at the end of the summer, and it seemed as if the bodies had probably floated into the position where they were found, but MIKE pointed at the at the position, where the share and shot his body skeleton found on the shore, so it was, chill dubious, but it more closely match the evidence. Historic. Interestingly, historically, at that time the death penalty was one thousand nine hundred and seventy three was deemed uncool institutional

Anne good thing for myself and that stood until one thousand nine hundred and seventy six and factors into this case so Now we had a life sentence, so tell just about now. The people that, interviewed self and got this elicited this. Open word on Morrison Tommy deal so tell us in nineteen, seventy, three or and seventy one thousand nine hundred and seventy five. What happened with Don Morrison Tommy deal to cast out on maybe their interrogation techniques well, it was a really interesting turn of events down I mean you could you could not have? If I put this in a novel, people wouldn't believe it within yeah, with it a little more than a year after MIKE Self Interest, the prison on a life sentence. The

two men who put him there. The only ones he said that they took that they took his confession, were arrested for robbing banks in Texas. They were picked up an prosecuted, an ended up in federal prison as bank robbers. So. You would think that, given those sir cumstances. Those events that That MIKE Selfs, confession and conviction might be more easily overturned, so tell us about what happens with that well, you sure would think so, wouldn't you and and they did pursue appeals for MIKE there were two or three different attorneys over the years, he tried to get MIKE out of prison, but the courts world at one point it was actually magistrate head, ruled that there there not enough evidence and that the confessions were

unreliable and could not be used an Then he ruled that if they wanted to try myself again, they could but they needed to release him. And then retry him, and they couldn't use the confessions in the new trial. Well without the convention concessions, they had no evidence against myself, so they I'm sorry. I've got a little bit of a cold so they continue to. You know the state continued to push the case. Higher court reversed that decision sent it back down, and like self, never did end up getting out of prison. He ended up dying in prison. Many years later he could have one of the interesting things is, he probably could have gotten out on parole if he'd been well. To say that he was sorry for killing the girls. That here that he regretted taking Sherron Sean Renee Johnson's life, but when

give me meadows. His first attorney. Pointed that out to him one day MIKE just answered, but I didn't kill those girls. Yeah, I thought that was the most of the most pointed part Of your book, this wrongfully convicted man, while serial killers or so Real killer is running around for decades. Incredible at MIKE's cell dies in prison. After the others that it could have been released but uh. It just wouldn't admit that he did kill the people He was accused of doing of killing compounds the tragedy of the girls killings? Don't you think? Yes, I think it does, and really anybody that can argue the death penalty. After this case, I like to hear it Well, you know, and the other thing is that, while MIKE was in while he was in jail awaiting trial, while he was,

the trial was going on. And in the following years, when he was already in prison, girls continued die up and down. I forty five, the kill a Yes, and now, with the admission that you've just made and put you know in your dramatically in your book, you talk about: Kimberly Ray Pitchford. Sixteen years old have disappeared. After driver's ed. Now. That being said what's up. What was the police? at that time with his I forty five Texas, killing fields as it was being described, tell us what connections they did make. What did I think they had and what kind of number victims they had which could be attributed to a serial killer, tell us what they are conclusions were at that time.

Well, at the end, in nineteen, seventy one z, the other launches enforcement agencies- had gone into interview myself about their cases but came away not believing that he was responsible for any of the other killings. So they had the two girls cases, Sharon and Rhonda's murders that were allegedly solved, and then I five other girls had been murdered during one thousand nine hundred and seventy one that they were still in bed. To getting an Kim Pitchford walks out of drivers, Ed and disappears. Well, this is it. A little bit of a different area? It's around the same area, but it's it's a little bit farther north closer into Houston and again, in her family reports her missing that night. Her dad told me that they called the police right away that evening and really not much was done until sometime. The next day she was

you know a little bit older at sixteen and again, the initial response from police officers was it. She must have been a runaway. Now there in close succession or soon after their are two other girl, found as well. I'll or we'll. Pardon me yes tell us, tell us who's found next, two girls name Brooks Bracewell and Georgia gear Disappear, Brooksville twelve years old and Georgia was fourteen and they were they skipped school in September in nineteen. Seventy four They were last seen at a convenience store and they just disappeared again and they, like the others, like the other. They just seem to have vanished

At that time you also mentioned historically that the term serial killer has been coined and. Everyone's attention is on the serial killer, enigmatic, serial killer, TED Bundy so tell us why he's included and and the effect that time with the Release of the information about TED Bundy. Well, you people didn't really realize that there were serial killers in the United States dates and Bundy really woke up a lot of people and they started to understand that this wasn't just jack the ripper back in the olden times. In the UK that this was happening here in the new world in the United States and that there were people dying and so they started, there was a big debate going on about these cases. There were some people in lawn Forsman who believed that

They were related that it was one killer. There were other ones who thought that these for crimes of opportunity and Aurora multiple killers, but certainly the majority of people had started to believe a lot of it, based on the fact that they now understood that there were guys, like TED Bundy in the world, that there was a great pie. Ability that there was some type of that there was a serial killer haunting. This part of Texas. Now you talk about in April, seventy six. They find the skulls of Brooks, Bracewell an Georgia gear. Uh there was floods in the area, complicated the searches but through clothing, found teeth and bones found. Uh. This was blunt force. Trauma was to their heads so this is two years afterwards, are finally found and then

may one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven. You talk about. Suzanne Suzy, Bowers, going missing so tell us about the discovery and then talk tell us about Suzi Bowers. Well, the Bracewell end, an gears bodies were around, and they were really not that far away from Oracle at Wilson and Gloria Gonzalas is bodies had been found. There remains, it then found, which is in another area with water. A lot of these bodies were found in and around water in the Addicks Reservoir outside of outside of Houston, Ann Suzi Bowers was twelve. She was living on Galveston Island. She was supposed to show go to the beach. That day it was memorial Day weekend, if I remember correctly and- and she was planning to spend the day at one of the popular beaches in Galveston with her friend,

she left her grandmother's house and was heading home to pick up a bathing suit to go down to the to the beach and she never arrived at. The She never made it home to get that bathing suit. By that evening, her entire family was looking for and her friends were starting to get worried. She was reported missing saying but- and I know this is difficult to believe because at this we've got eleven girls have who disappeared in this area over period of six years, but the police initially told the parents and grandparents that they believed Susie and run away. The grandmother, pointed out that she left behind the money that she'd been saving. Today on a choir trip and that he hadn't taken any of her clothes or anything from her room and that she was a good kid.

She'd, never been in any trouble. There was no strife in the family. There was no reason for her to run away, but the people in law enforcement didn't look for initially because they thought that she was in runaway It's interesting to from anybody to that's true I fan knows that the name Henry Lee Lucas Henry Lee, Lucas, made a claim about Suzi Bowers tell us briefly what happened there and the result of that. At one point when they were bringing Henry Lee Lucas around Texas and he was claiming a lot of killing. They brought him down to the Galveston County and he said that he thought he remembered that he'd picked up Susie Bowers and that he had killed her years later. He recanted that and there really was never any evidence tying him to Susie's death. The average

then said he did give police the account of what happened in match the evidence of that they did have about her disappearance. So it's just one of those things at that point they were. Actually you know Lucas had a laundry list to killings. He was he was claiming and one of Suzy's friends actually wrote to Lucas in prison and said: did you kill Susie and he said no, I didn't there's a quote from That letter in the box- and he talks about how he was confessing to these crimes, just to get privileges like cigarettes and be able to watch tv and not in prison for a little while, while they took him around yeah, No, not another Fascinating development in this book is Alfred. Fred, page Ackerman's, mother d out

insisted or called agent and begged him to investigate. And so we're talking about uh, another character, Carla Costello, so tell us about Edward Harold, Bell, Ann offered Fred Page and D Ackerman Anne, how this story unfolds well: This is really an interesting tale in the book. I call it the cop and the killer. Fred page is dog'd police. After Gator in the Galveston area and back then he was a detective and he was he was called it. As you mentioned, he got a personal plea. To go out and investigate the murders of Maria John KEN and Debbie Ackerman. So he goes to Texas City and if it's Carla, Costello who's a very

wonderful woman who was working there at the time and she had taken Appan herself after they've been a task force. Two compile all of the evidence in files from these different cases. So he goes there to get Johnson, Ackerman files and starts talking to Costello, and he says to Carla so Did you ever have anybody you liked these cases and she says yeah. There was this guy Ed Bell. She said he wrote a letter. It turned out that Edward now Bell? Had It was a grad student at Texas Tech University when he was found when he was sent to the hospital, a psychiatric hospital in Galveston for exposing himself

to young girls, and he was in prison for the murder of a guy named Larry Dickens after he had exposed himself in front of the children and Larry had tried to stop. Him had twice written letters once to the district attorney in Galveston County and one to the district attorney in Harris County confessing and saying that he had murdered all eleven of the girls in Galveston Island. Well, Fred Pages interest is immediately piqued and he starts to look into it and he takes the evidence. He takes the letters that Bell is written. And he compares it and lo and behold he discovers that Ed Bell has described the angle of the shots going into the body and some of the other things that happened, that you know accurately in the motors of Ackerman Johnson, so Fred begins and investigation.

Starts looking into the cases he finds. A lot of ties between Bell and the girls Bell Part owner in a surf shop a lot of the girls that the missing girls frequent? on the island during the 1970s. He owned land near where some of the bodies were found. He had a trailer, park near land where Maria Johnson and Debbie Ackermans bodies were found. There were a lot of indications of perhaps he could be the right guy There was an interesting you had the we mentioned, the Wicks ski shop that was mentioned previously, and this one was the Doug's dive and surf shop. It tell us, about the proximity of these two places. Everything's really, close down on the island, the islands of a small place, an when the ski shop.

And the surf shop were just blocks apart. So the girls are, then, the kids in the area often walked between these different areas, he I was also living in a house. He rented a room on the island along with his wife. He married to a woman. He he met in psychiatric program. And the person he leased the house from who also lived in the property was a coach for some the kids in the area. So a lot of the kids would stop over at the house. He hasn't an extensive psychiatric record, so tell us about before we get into what he says. What is the official record of his history psychiatrically. Well, he he so I've been in and out of psychiatric institution

and he was in and out and it's for what he called his problem, which was you know that he was exposing himself to young girls From a very long time, it started when he was at Texas, Am University and continued up until the time he ended up in Galveston Island and through the time he was arrested for murder, which was in nineteen seventy seven right about the time the last murder occurred. Suzi Bowers died in May of nineteen. Seventy seven, it wasn't long after that that Ed Bell was arrested for Larry Dickens murder. He surprisingly, I think, for you know murder charge like that was released from prison on fail while he was awaiting trial and he flat and he missing for a long period of time He was arrested in the early 90s.

It's interesting to he was on. I hate the term chemical castration, because it's not a castration, but he was on with just Provera and. Yeah- and it was interesting too, and he was out on this bill that they found later. Was he just sold all his boats except one and Jump Billy had about one hundred and forty thousand dollars in his pocket?. And many years on the run and extradited from Panama, finally well and and brought back to Texas to stand trial on on Larry Dickens, murder and he's tried and convicted. One of the sad things at the trial was that his brother came up to Larry Dick Dickens, sister and apologized and his brother had tears in his eyes, and he said I'm so sorry. It wasn't always like this, Was there some witness or

or indication that he also had a white van at one time? Well, when Fred Page was pulling all of this together, he found police records showing that ad was in. Louisiana not long after Maria and Debbie disappeared, and as we mention earlier. They were last seen getting into a white fan and in that police record for exposing himself your girl in Louisiana. It says that he was driving a white van at that time. Now. Were there jail house in May is that spent time with bill that had anything to say about anything he had to say you know that that didn't really forward what what happened was that Fred began pulling all of These things together and trying to piece it together and the

I ended up actually going into the prison and talking to Ed, which was quite an experience. That was something I will absolutely never forget. Yeah tell us about the. In prison. What Bell had said four justifying what he did tell us his tail. Well, I'm not too sure you know, I'm not privy to add bells medical records, but my impression is that he suffers from some sort of mental illness. Perhaps some you know multiple personality disorder or you know something that the staff mentally it's during my time with him he was very volatile he, seem to be having auditory hallucinations. He was trying to block he was telling me that you know people were

there was a mass conspiracy against them and that he can put in a program the day was born. I understand it wasn't like this when he was tried and convicted a dickens killing and the people in Galveston. Don't remember him this way. But somewhere along the line. Something went wrong for Ed Bell and he told me that he killed twelve people and when I asked him, and that was blurry dickens in the eleven girls and when I asked him why he killed the girls Dan. It was just chill saying it was as if he was transported back to that time and plays ah he started talking about all of the frustration in the anger and he had described being. You know physically abused by his parents when he was a child and everything

and it was like. He was back in that moment and he said he just blew that something had to give, and he just blew- and you know the the sad result was that the girls died. Was one of the most fascinating parts of your book is that you have Mister page talk about its conclusions as to Bell's built, and he says you know very unbiased. He says well collects purple shorts and Mickey Mouse. T shirt was what Bell remembered forty two years later than not even her mother could remember. Detail that spell remembered yeah. It was really pretty amazing. The problem is well the one problem is that Ed Bell has some type of mental illness. The other thing is that

There's no evidence remaining from these cases. That anybody's been able to find, I think, there's probably some someplace in a box in a room waiting dipper to be discovered but at this point they don't have any of the physical evidence like the girls, clothes or anything to read. Any dna testing on plus most of these girls were found, as I meant earlier in our in water, which tends to destroy evidence but yeah it's he did. The other thing is that most of the things at Del talked about ran in the newspaper at one point when the girls disappeared. Now it hard to imagine a forty years later. He remembers things like the Mickey Mouse uncle at T shirt I mean, and and as he mentioned clearer? Wilson collect mom, didn't, remember that, but it was reported at the time. So it's it's not something that only the killer could now

what's interesting in your book to is that for those Aboffs what's interesting is previous to this story, the confession by a killer could lead to some kind of conviction, but the law had been overturned and confession alone, without corroborating other evidence. Couldn't they for a conviction of murder, yeah yeah. It is really sad that my myself went to prison, with no evidence against him and hear Ed Bell is in prison, but his never been tried for these other cases. You know because of the change of the law yeah there disturbing now you talk about the 1980s in your book and we won't get to everything, but we want to get to another, fantastic and fascinating character, but now again someone that doesn't die early, TIM Miller,

and with his daughter, Laura and so tell us about Laura and the the girls high Defi Laura Lynn Miller as Jane DOE, Shelly, Sykes and JANET Doe tell us about this. Texas killing field is, it is then been referred to and the 80s and these victims, and before talk about TIM Miller. Well back the girls we've talked about thus far. They all died in the 1970s, the books divided into the three different decades in the 1980s. There is a fee tails off Calder RD in Lake City, which is just off five hundred and forty five. It's just shouting distance to I, forty five in another one of the small towns, an four girls by these were found there. The first one was Heidi five who disappeared to the disappeared

one thousand nine hundred and eighty three then, as he said, Laura Miller, she was sixteen years old. She disappeared in September, one thousand nine hundred and eighty four and her body was found along with a Jane DOE, in February in nineteen, eighty six and then the last one is JANET Doe who's found in done in nineteen. Ninety one, the girls were all different ways, but many believe the first three were killed by the same killer, because their bodies were positioned underneath trees in very similar ways. It's believed that JANET do The fourth girl may have been left there by another killer this again is a very remote area. It's an area that floods during you know tropical storms and hurricanes and and Bodies laid there for a long period of time before they were found. Now you incredible. Access to this, this character. Tim Miller,

starter lower, like you say, is, was disappear in September. Eighty four so just give us a little bit of a again this set, Add background of what happened to Laura that day in in change the Miller family forever, Well, when Laura disappeared, TIM began looking for within within a short period of time and couldn't find her TIM Miller is just anime I think I had at the time he was running a construction company here in Houston, and he Bradley admits he was not the best father in the world. He hadn't been terribly involved and didn't pay a lot of attention and and then lower Disip here as well. It tore him apart.

And for the last thirty years since Laura's disappearance TIM has been fighting to keep these cases alive and to find out who murdered the girls who were found in the in the Texas killing field. And what to what efforts he's done? He's created this equal search or equal search, an you talk about, one thousand three hundred cases, one hundred and seventy bodies, including Kaylee, Anthony and Natalie Holloway. So tell us about how he goes from this GR leaving parent to this again. Somebody energetic advocate victim advocate. Well, can was so torn up by Laura's death. I think at one point, if he hadn't done something it would have just eat him up a lot

Five and he never would have come out the other side and he started trying to make sense. I think about it, happen and he spent a lot of time out the field at night, all alone in the dark, and just you know grieving for his daughter. Well, one hundred and ninety he turned his back and say Laura. I have to leave I've got go. I can't keep this up. You have to let your dad go. And as he was walking away, he heard her say: don't don't give up, don't give up and he ended up swearing that he would never let another family go through. What he and his wife and his other daughter had gone through for those seventeen months when they were looking for Laura they didn't know what had happened to her. So Founded over the years, Texas Equusearch, which is just a number, is group of volunteers, they've gone all over the world, looking for missing people and he had

It worked on the Cayley Anthony case, the Natalee Holloway case lot of the big cases that happened in the last decade or two and he's done a lot of good for a lot of families. He's here on the Gulf Coast. He's he's in the news all day time we just last week they were pulling a body at one of the lakes here in Houston and in the, Houston area and TIM was there, along with the equity, rich volunteers, they use all kinds of advanced scientific methods now, and this is all been done because of what happened to his daughter and his love for his daughter and his grief and he's in the title of the book talks about Murder and redemption, and there are other parents in the book- have come around and have done amazing things. But one of the reason these redemptions in the title is because of TIM Miller. Now part of the redemption is also

again. You talk about turning his grief and an alcohol and drowning his sorrows to doing something for good and there's uh. Person that comes into as a sub is Robert Abel. Bird NASA engineer. Uh But we seem to have some kind of interest in the case, so tell us how he becomes a viable suspect and how does Tim find this out and she do as a result. Robber table had a horse ranch that backed right up to the Texas killing field off Calder Road, where the bodies were found. And it came to terms attention that the police were looking at him and there was a search warrant that was written and there was a lot of very incriminating things put in there, based on an FBI profile, saying that Robert ABLE, who is actually a very brilliant man, an engineer with the space program, which is headquartered,

down in this area, this part of Texas, that that it matched- that the profile matched robber table so TIM started just harassing robber table. He waited format pose at the mailbox at night. Skews me, I'm sorry. He did his best to make Robert uncomfortable, hoping that he would confess. And so with that sorry, which Robert with Robert ABLE um

what was the reaction from police and obviously he he didn't enjoy being harassed. So did he go to police and what was their reaction? The place did become involved in an TIM, try to hang back over the years, but then never really did just control it kept going after him. In the end, one at one point TIM says that he actually threatened able with a gun an at that point. Im checked himself into a hospital, and his minister came to talk to him and it was after that the ten became so involved. With the search for the missing it's interesting to the TIM receives receives a letter with the six hundred and sixty six on it and says I am the serial killer more Our bodies and more bones You know that was after Robert to Abel's death Robert

Drawing of a eye like a golf cart type vehicle down on the grill. Tracks wheat. No one really knows if it was suicide or an accident, but he died and right before that he and timit kind of made peace, and so then they they went out not long after Robert's death came gets. This letter, which is made up of all These letters that cut out of magazines- and as you said it says you know that Robert Abel was not to Satan and that he overwrote. It said that he was still alive and he was an if there were more bodies. Another character that that's in your book as well as of Shelly Sykes, is again another girl that goes missing and then Eddie Sykes goes on. This

mission to to to search the road and to he found her vehicle. And tell us a little bit about this Eddie Sykes and his search for his daughter. Well, Eddie Izzard, you know, Eddie was another dead. Who is just put in the position of trying to do what law enforcement wasn't doing what he didn't believe that they were doing he started. He called and talk to John After Shelly was reported missing after Shelly, disappeared, Shelly was driving home from her job as a waitress on the island going actually to visit her boyfriend and was run off the side of the road Everybody knew immediately, something was wrong. There was blood on the side of the car. There was blood inside and so

Eddie had contacted John Walsh, and so what do I do and John said, I'll, get it in the news and keep it there. What he said is keep the police officers out. For the donut shop and working put on public pressure. So That's what a did and Eddie mounted a campaign. He he and his Ex wife, Shelly's mom and his current at that time were all over the media, a and they were trying to Find their daughter- and they continue to put on pressure continued to put on pressure. Shelly was missing for about a year. And then they ran it for the one year anniversary, they did another big push an. It was after that that they found a suspect, a guide who was down in I'm really sorry, my throats not do

too well here a guy named John Robert King, who was down on the on the Texas border and had tried to commit suicide because he he felt as if he was being hunted by all of the pressure that the Sykes family was put. It's interesting that that pressure- you know I think that it doesn't matter. The story staying in the press really does matter in its dramatic example of what does happen, this psych will pathic heinous killer, John Rhe Burger King right see suicide notes, implicating his friend Gerald Peters worst. King testifies that he and his and Gerald were smoking pot laced with cp and, of course in the initial statement, is blaming. I'm putting the blame on his partner, but tell us

Essentially, what these two do dastardly heinous psycho pass did in regarding this murder. Well, they they picked up. Shelly shelling they notice. Shelly Shelly was very cute. She is tiny little thing and they notice during our car that evening she had pulled through at a Mcdonald's to get a hamburger on her way to her boyfriends house. And they began flirting with her. One of them began flirting with her. She didn't respond. The way that they and they were all, as you said, drugged up and everything and drunken and they started running her off the side of the road after they brighten right near the causeway going into Galveston. And then John King RAP to tickets? First I am broke the window and dragged her out of the car. She had a small car and,

put her in the pickup truck that they had on in on the floor of the pickup truck people saw this. They pulled over and he shouted at him and acted like he had a gun and said that it was a domestic dispute and they took off and sad. Only none of nobody had cell phones remember we're back in the 1980s, but they didn't go to the police station. They didn't report it. Nobody reported anything until after it was reported that Shelly was missing and it started hitting them The next day where they took Shelly that night, nobody knows, but king made references to perhaps the fact that they had buried her and perhaps the fact that maybe she was still a five when they did it and that they had hit her with a he said he

heard mumbling and saying things about about her moving in him and that he had hit her with a shovel. So but the thing is they were both tried and they were both convicted. But there actually were tried for kidnapping not for murder, because they didn't have the body. They never thought Shelley's body and the prosecutors wanted to keep open the picture. I'm for a murder charge. If Shelley's body is ever found. But all these years later now you're looking at this, this happened in May of nineteen. Eighty six and all These years later, Eddie Sykes is still looking for his daughter's body. He had. As a shovel in his trunk, and he told me he still sometimes will think about. He'll see a place in Hell. Think well, I haven't looked there

and he'll get out of the car and walk around and start digging. They did look for Shelly's body. For many years they tried to work out an agreement with Swartz and king to find out where she was buried, but to this to this point in time that they haven't been able to find her. There's that thing you know Dan about wanting to bring your child home and barrier absolutely well. It's it's not much, but I think if if that's what parents, cling to that little semblance of dignity, then that's, certainly if that's important to them. That certainly seems to ring true through all the books that I have read that that's seem to be one of the most important things in

In having spent not to say closure, that's that's just some sort of cliche, but I don't think that ever happened, but yeah idea that it's the last thing. I think that they can do for their child. You know that their child is gone, their child is dead, and this is the last thing they can do. So it's it's very difficult for the families when the well, it's always difficult for the families, but the fact that the body is and found ads another level. You know it's another, it's another source of grief. Now, we'll just we don't have enough time to cover everything, but I just want to cover one last thing in this incredible book, because it does tie in up people have been listening so far with Robert able and a gentleman named Stallings. So so, so? Basically, let's go just a little bit back to their

obviously, were some more murders and we're talking about the Texas Moon, bar and Clyde, Hedrick and Ellen Beeson together, tell us a little bit about this case. Well, Kim, actually instrumental in getting them to read. Look at the murder of Ellen Beeson, which should happened the same year that his daughter, Laura Miller, disappeared and the case at time Ellen was Ellen's body was found. And Clyde was the last person with her. He claimed at the time That she had drowned the autopsy, back, is undetermined, and so he was he was right at the time back in the 1980s, for abuse of a corpse and served a short sentence and was let go but based on evidence

they came forward when they exhumed Ellen's bodies. Clyde was retried. On Ellen Beeson, Skilling tried with murder for Ellen Beeson and he was convicted in about two years ago of any man fly and he is in prison now and TIM that and TIM believes that Clyde Heydrich is a really viable suspect in the murders of the first three girls and the killing field, Heidi FI, TIM's daughter, Laura and the Jane DOE that was found there when Laura was found. They all knew. Each other Laura was as Kim investigated as he. Continue to look into these cases. He's discovered that the bar that Clyde Frequent at the Texas Moon

Club was the same one that Heidi went to and Laura Laura TIM has some evidence or some eyewitnesses who say that Laura had gone to Clyde's house along with friends who were there to buy pot at different times, so there's some indication that perhaps he's a good suspect in these cases. What's fascinating. To is when you talk about. We talked about this track. Magic wrongful conviction of MIKE Self. We also have you know just the the players that are in here that despite overcoming overwhelming evidence. You talk about Doctor Korndorfer, and his relentless. The disagree with the other corner right up his death will tell us about. Recorder for and how He is very important to this story and why he was the

he was the medical examiner in Galveston County in the 1980s, when these girls were disappearing when the ones in the killing never found- and he did an autopsy on Ellen Deason and at the time he came up with the undetermined, which was the reason that Clyde was not prosecuted for murder at that time and when he when the trial happened, when Clyde was eventually We try it on Ellen's case he came, then, and still maintain that he had cleaned Ellen Skull and had no. Seen any evidence of the fracture to her skull, but there were two doctors to bone specialist bone men from different universities in the area and that's all they do just look at it, and one of them actually testified that when he had gotten the skull after Korndorfer it looked at it. It was

still covered it. It had not been cleaned, and that was the reason the doctor Korndorfer did not fun did not see the the fracture in Ellen Beason's skull So it was a fascinating trial and Clyde Hatrix. It was really you know. It was really the the three doctors battling it out on the stand. It was just fascinating. Now to tie in all of this. Before we go, you have mark role in Stallings. He was a hired hand on Robber table who we now talk about who had passed away, but was a suspect but worked on Robert Tables Ranch and while in prison he confesses to other killings in about in the killing fields. So but no charges so tell us he to be a prime suspect with that JANET Dole, the last victim and maybe a couple other killing so tell us about Stallings and how we met able and what you able to find out about this team.

Stallings, enable mark, says a mark, Stallings told that he tell JANET go along with a couple of other women and he said that he placed the body behind on the killing fields behind Abel's ranch because he was angry table for firing him Stallings work form is kind of a ranch hand for a period of years couple years around the time of these killings and they had been heaping bringing prostitutes back to the ranch

and he claims that Robert ABLE killed one of the prostitutes and that he killed another and left the bodies out in out in the woods behind branch strolling through yeah. I've been told by police that his account to match the physical evidence and there's at least two police departments, the one in Lake City and the LAN Fort Bend County, who told me that they believe that he is, in fact a c serial killer and they they believe that he is committed. Multiple murders in the area by interviews with him were very chilling, as I go into in the book that they were very frightening. He had absolutely no remorse. I asked him at one point: if you know

if it bothered him at all, if anything that he had done bothered him in. He just looked at me with a kind of a cold stare and said now that the women deserved what they got. And why is that? Well, he said that they were prostitutes and if they didn't respect their bodies than they had no right to tell him what to do to them and he could do anything he wanted. Using it's. These are chilling stories. I guess we're not going to get into the 1990s. Well, we can. We can. If you're broken handle. If you could throw, can have a little bit of 90s, because we again, I mean this such a sad story. But there are a couple again there's just bright spots of this. When you talk Sherri, Sherry, Wilcox and, the work out heroic he sherry, Wilcox and also sue the. So again

If you can handle it. So tell us a little bit about what happens in the night Yeah, the 90s, you know it's incredible, because these cases just continued throughout this area. I don't know if it's because it- it's such a transition area, I don't know, there's a lot of industry up and down Mr Bay, But- call. Jeane Baker was the first, you disappeared in the 90s and it was March in nineteen, ninety six and she walk out of her grandmother's house. They'd had a an argument, she find a grandmother to take her to a friend's house to get her high heels? She had her first pair of high heels crystal. Is thirteen and she tried to get her dad to take her mom to take her, and all of them had said no well crystal is thirteen year old can be? Was pretty darn head, strong and she just went off down the road and, as the girls did,

all of these girls in this book. She just vanished the police. Looking for no time because your grandmother had called in and said you know my granddaughter took cough and I want you to bring her home and they couldn't find her and it was sad only they didn't family didn't know what had happened to her for a matter of a of three weeks, as I remember it, but Crystal's body was actually found within hours farther north up near Anawak, Texas, an It was underneath the bridge a highway bridge that ran over the Trinity River and she had been it. She was badly bruised. It appeared that she'd been sexually assaulted and she'd been strangled. Now enter in Sherry, Wilcox, she's evidence officer, and she

the the mother. It always kept pushing and so That's the adamant parent that keeps keeping spirit of their dead child alive or the missing child alive, and so we're talking, A bit later, but. DNA. Advances and Cherry Wilcox is looking and considering this evidence and staying that she saw on crystals panties, so tell us what she does with this fixation and Their job is evidence officer. And what does she do and how far does she go to try to solve this well. She she brings crystals close to the dps lab, and they take an they take a look at the envelope and it's marked is having already been tested back in nineteen. Ninety six, my crystal disappeared in it point. They found no dna well, according to Pro

call, it wasn't eligible to be tested again unless they had a suspect, a suspect in another suspect. So the GPS clerk told Sherry to go ahead and take them back back to the Chambers County Sheriff's department put him back into the evidence room. So cherry brings him back but doesn't put the file away and keep it out and a little while later she removed the items and puts them into new envelopes and take them back to the p s as if it's a new case they put process the clothing and they find semen stains, around the neck of crystals draft. They pay full dna from it and they have a dna profile of crystals killer. This is crystal

Died in nineteen ninety six: this is about two thousand and ten, so this is fourteen years after her death, then a few months later, six months later or so Sherry gets a call and they have a match with a guy named Kevin, Edison Smith away. Elder. Who'd worked along the Gulf Coast. Traveled all through but this area for decades working in the different plants and and he'd been picked up in Louisiana. An Louisiana has a law that anybody pulled in and booked on any type of felony charge. He was actually picked up for having some prescription drugs in his car after a traffic. Stop that their dna, is processed interest. Texas doesn't have that law. If it had happened in Texas, this wouldn't have happened

and when they ran the dna they gotta match. So come two thousand and twelve Kevin Edison Smith is tried for Crystal Jean Baker's killing. Again you talk about this Quanell x. Just briefly tell how he's involved and and in this confession, in the Smith confession Quanell, is a very prominent african American Advocate in the Houston and the Gulf Coast Area and he often goes into work, for families when they believe that their family members being unjustly accused because of racial bias and Kevin Edison Smith. Family asked him to go in and talk to so Quanell ask Kevin Smith. Are you guilty of these crimes.

Of this crime and and- and I first mister Smith- denied it but point now, I said to him: well, they've got your dna, and at that point it became apparent that Kevin Edison Smith was worried about the death penalty and that his dna could be. He indicated that there was the possibility that his dna could be, found on other bodies. Sokoine EL asked him if he wanted him to talk to the prosecutors about taking the death penalty off the table in exchange for telling the truth about what had happened to Crystal and Kevin Smith agreed Anne Confess to having murdered Crystal Jane Baker,

Now we don't have much time, but I want to touch on the Susan Dietrich and and also was, cane, so tell us just a little bit about Susie, the kind of character she was and how she got herself in a position to do so. Much in this case. Well, a young girl named Laura Kate is twelve years old. She she was the wood Valerie and I jogging and disappeared. This is April. Nineteen twenty seven she just she disappeared. There was a huge, massive search throughout the the entire area for Christopher Laura, I mean it was just a it's a major case in this part of Texas. And not long after that, a young girl named Jessica Kane. It was seventeen left to cast party.

In August, in nineteen, ninety seven and her truck was found off the side of the road on I've Forty five and Jessica had just just disappeared. What main suspect, with a guy named William Lewis, three but They couldn't tie anything to Reese. And they didn't have any evidence just that he was in the area at the time. One thirty eight was brought in on another case, a woman who had jumped out of a speeding out of a truck, going down the highway after she'd, been abducted at eight defenders, say Powell case and

and during the investigation she was brought in as a hypnotist she'd been a former detective. At that time she was the police chief in Tiki Island, which is the community that Jessica Cain lived in, but she she was brought in as a as a hypnotherapist or a hypnotist to forensic hypnotist to work with Asus to work with sander, say pal and try to figure out who had abducted her off the side of the road, and I forty five after she did, that interview is Sandra, Sapaugh lawsuit, Dietrich, be can to think about the description she had of the you know the kidnapper in that case and had donned on her that the description fit that of William Louis Reese, who was the main suspect in the.

Duck Shinan murder of Laura Kate Smither the twelve year old. So she called the police department investing investigating the Saipal case and suggested that perhaps they talk to the other police department that was investigating the Laura Kate Smither case, saying that there was the possibility that you know they'd be able to help them and when they did, there was a lineup that was done and Sander say power. The woman, the woman who had survived- When he jumped out of the moving truck on, I forty five or picked William Louis Reese, out of a out of a line yeah and he was later tried for that abduction and convicted and is now in in Texas prison and he remains the main suspect in Laura Kate, abduction and murder.

Interesting, they hadn't been for hundred Dietrich, putting two and two together and suggesting that the two police department's talk. It's very likely that Bill Reese would never have been arrested. On that Sander say Paul case, and if he truly is a serial killer, which many people believe he would have been free to to continue yeah Well, it would spend a fascinating interview, Katherine Catherine, and for a incredibly fascinating book deliver us three decades of murder and redemption in the infamous I forty five Texas killing fields. I want to thank you very much for those that may want to contact you or find out more about this. If you have a web page or a facebook page, could you tell us a little bit about that before we go? I have closest my websites, Catherine Casey, dot com. It's ka

h r y n C, a s e y dot com, and I'm reachable through a contact there and I do you have a facebook page? If you, Google, me it'll, come up, I believe. Absolutely what is your next project? You have anything ten for or release soon, I'm I'm know you're very, very busy and prolific person. So, what's up next well I have two books: I'm working on I'm finishing up one on what's called a stiletto murder here into in Houston, I was the ANA Trujillo case. The victim is define Anderson, a swedish professor and medical researcher and I'm also working on the Kaufman County killings, the justice of the peace. There was convicted, late last year of murdering the district attorney, the district attorney's wife and the chief prosecutor in the office.

Credible. It is so another. Could it has other couple book offerings? You can't wait because we'll have to have you back on and talk about those fascinating books. What I want to thank you again, and for coming on and talking about your latest deliver us fascinating interview. Thank you very much, Katherine Ann. Have a great evening. Thank you. Goodnight.

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