« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

Episode 19-SLOW DEATH-Jim Fielder

2010-05-20 | 🔗
Beside New Mexico's Elephant Butte Lake stood a windowless trailer which owner David Parker Ray, 59, and his girlfriend Cynthia Hendy, 39, called The Toybox. A $100,000 homemade torture chamber, it was equipped with whips, chains, pulleys, straps, clamps, leg spreader bars, and surgical blades and saws. A camcorder stood next to the leather-padded torture table-set up to make 'snuff' videos-while a ceiling-mounted video monitor allowed female victims to see every excruciating detail of the agonies inflicted on them by their captors."Never trust a chained captive", was one of the rules David Ray kept posted as a reminder to himself and his followers. It's truth was proven on March 22, 1999 when, after surviving a three-day torture orgy, Cyndi Vigil, 22, stabbed Hendy with an ice pick and escaped, clad only in a slave collar and padlocked chains. She told police that she'd been kidnapped, raped and tortured by Ray and Hendy. A second victim, Angie Montano, 27, came forward to describe how she'd survived a similar ordeal less than a month before.Satanist Ray was the center of a web of satanism, sex slavery and murder. His disciple, drifter Roy Yancy, confessed to strangling to death Marie Parker, 22, while Ray took photos. Ray's daughter Jesse, 31, was convicted of helping her father kidnap and torture Kelli Van Cleve, 22. Cynthia Hendy told authorities that Ray had killed 14 women. Police believe that he may have slain more than 60. SLOW DEATH-Jim Fielder
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hi, it's Jamie Progressives number. One two employee leave a message at the Hey Jamie. It's been Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Acapella group, Matt Harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean you're, the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name, your price tool. It should be you given me the pep talk now get out there hit that high note and take mad harmony, all the way to nationals this yeah. Sorry, progressive casualty, insurance company and affiliates pricing coverage match limited by state law, and now I found from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah these be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but the far less appealing blood fish
come on. To add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent, or more on motorcycle insurance law, oh baby,. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killer, who crime history through murder, with your host journalists and other than asking.
Did you know this? Is your host damsel task for the programme to murder the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors written about them? Besides New Mexico's elephant, but Lake stood a windowless trailer which owner David Parker Ray fifty nine hey its flow with a super. Weird word nightgown. If you ask me it sounds less like clothes you wear to bed and more, like things you say to your clothes, can I Capri pants sleep tight, sweaters nightgown we've got a big day tomorrow. Now, a weird word: I just made up flow tection. It sounds like great protection for your new home through me and progressive, and that's because it is, I said, Goodnight Capri pants go to sleep, so I have an average of seventeen percent on car insurance when you bundle home and auto through progressive, progressive casualty, insurance company, affiliates and other insurers discount available in all states or situations in this girl for us girlfriend. Cynthia and the thirty nine called the Toy Box one hundred thousand dollars home made torture chamber, it was equipped with whips chains, pulleys, straps, clamps,
big spreader bars and surgical, blades and saws a camcorder. The next to the leather padded torture table set up to make not videos. While a ceiling mounted video monitor allowed female victims to see every excruciating detail of the agonies inflicted on them by their captors. Never ass. The chain captive was one of them. David re cap listed as a reminder to himself and his followers. It's true. It was proven on March 22nd, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, when, after surviving a three day, torture orgy Cindy vigil twenty two stabbed handy with a nice big and escaped only in this way collar and padlock change. She tore police she'd, been kidnapped, raped and tortured by Ray in a second victim, Angie Montano. Twenty seven came forward describe how she survived a similar deal less than a month before Satan astray. It was the center of a web of Satanism, slavery and murder. His disciple, a drifter Roy Yazzi, confessed strangling today
Marie Parker twenty two. While rate photos raised butter Jesse thirty one was convicted of helping her father, kidnap and torture. Kelly Van cleave, twenty two Cynthia Hendy took told authorities that Ray had killed fourteen women. We believe that he may have slain more than sixty. My special guess this evening is the author of slow death author. I feel there thank you very much for agreeing to this interview and welcome to the programme. Jim Filter obscured the bigger. Thank you very much Jim for agreeing to this interview. Now, first off. I'm very interested what made you want to write. This is very first true crime books. So what made you want to write a book about this case? How did you come to write, slow death? Well, I've been plugging away is a writer for seventeen years,
in about a year and a half before this happened. I interviewed Mary Letourneau, the child rapist, a teacher from the Seattle area, come wooden, colour, a rapist, but where I spent six months interviewing her in jail and there's a little overconfident, maybe after seventeen years I deserve to be but thought I get a book deal here to write about her and she was pretty infamous back and ninety seven and then he will that that, in turn out to be the case, I get turned down a couple of times in and they told me the same thing and maybe some the listeners can identify with this. They they ask. You know what that what was my last book and I didn't have a last book and did hire somebody from their stable writers to write about the subject. So anyway, I was just sitting around for a year waiting for things to happen. My wife and I were pretty axis
I'd written a magazine article and I've gone on good morning. America, which has a viewership of about ten million people share. So so I got some exposure on the L'Eternel case and I have to thank Mary. She was real open and gave me a lot of. Interesting information about her life, but it didn't go anywhere so, a year later, I was plugging away working for the tabloids. I was writing articles for the globe in the star to tabloids here in America. I had an editor that I really liked. He really was one of the best editors I've ever met in my life and.
He called me one day a year later, after the lesser nothing fell apart and he said Jim there's, a guy New Mexico, serial killer who's got a girlfriend from the Seattle area and he said I'm going to send you ten grand and I want you to go up to Everett and Monroe, an interview, Handies relatives or ex husband, husbands, her children, anybody that knew her. So I took off and bought some grapes, grass, and I think I bought some interviews also, but I ended up meeting some up down out interesting people
and I wrote an article for the star, but it was just like one bad luck story after another. I know this is kind of a long answer, but I think it's important. The kids at Columbine High School killed their classmates seventeen days after I finish my article about David Parker Ray, so nobody was interested in right anymore all of a sudden they real interested in these high school kids. So I took you know my information and one day I had lunch. This is kind of critical too. I had lunch with the guy who got the latern ideal, terrific, local, true crime, writer named Greg Olsen an- and I said great. What do you think I should do with all this material? I got in David Parker Ray and Cynthia Handy his girlfriend, and he said why don't you send it to Kansas
Publishing too and picture book deal can, and I was anxious to write a book, or at least proved that I could write a book, and so I did- and I was really lucky. I heard Mick Jagger on TV, the other my talk about the role that luck place in any one success and I think that's very true. He said everybody works hard lots of people work hard, but don't get lucky
and I ve been working very hard for a long time. But finally, I got lucky. There was an editor Kensington who thought my magazine piece on maternal was excellent and asked me to put a proposal together and David Parker Ray And- and I did not understand the time, what a nasty story this is gonna be at an end. I don't regret that. I think they would story is one of the most horrific things you could ever read about in true crime. If it's definitely kept people up at night agenda, we discuss publish in England under different title, the of the chamber horrors and on the cover of English book my book, it says America's were serial killer and I'm not an expert on serial killers, but I can't imagine anything being more horrible than what David did the people by torturing you for days and weeks, at a time before he probably killed them. In any case, I got a book deal today,
be a very long answer to a very interesting question in the editor at the time. This is my last will come in about my change of luck. He said this won't take more than six months to finish this book. I didn't care how long it took out. I wanted to go to Mexico. I'm kind of an outdoor guy wanted the fish, and I can do some other things and I knew New Mexico is a beautiful, but by the way and encourage everybody's listening from that area. They pronounce the name of the Lake Elephant Butte Lake, the one. But the one right next to truth or consequences. That's where David live, but anyway it is. It turned out the book took almost four years to finish But I don't, I don't read a minute of it: it's still
alive and well, ten years after I got the book deal, which was in ninety nine longer than that actually and because the internet there seems to be a hyphen interest, in this story. Yes, I think, is the true crime readers appetite. It gets more and more sensationalistic or they're looking for something more out of the ordinary. Despite all the famous and infamous real killers in their ghastly crimes, but always for something else, and this is something that I I had known about and I'm sure a lot of other people are catching up to story, I am I that's why this is destined to be a real, true, crap classic she knows, delivers the storm really delivers absolutely so, let's get to that delivering goods here. First thing I wanted to do. Is that really set up? The story takes place that you had mentioned in a place called truth or consequences, and I thought that the back
the story on this wasn't the city was originally called hot springs. Give us a little bit description of how big an area we're talking Manuel because this town, why did it change its name? Ann and what was it like? What's the make up like it is a religious places, a blue collar place? What is what is the truth are colon consequences like describe that for us before we started? I think it's probably changed over the years
it supposed to at the time. At the time David was arrested, it was drug town. In my opinion, one of the local reporters told me that half of the six thousand people were taking methamphetamines and I don't know how you prove something like that, but I think that that gives you an idea of what would you want on there had a huge drug problem? Well, I suppose people take drugs, something that's a problem, but there are a lot of people who don't work there and I think that's all changed a lot in the last ten years and I'll tell you more about
later, but back and night about nineteen. Fifty there was a radio show culture, their consequences run by gunning, Ralph Edwards and I'm old enough to remember that show in the radio knows well kid, and apparently he offered any time America Especial Deal that he come and broadcast in their town if they change their name to true their consequences, which was the name of his radio show, and the people and half springs voted to go ahead and do that they were probably looking for a little promotion. The area where the tennis located is stunningly beautiful, it's out in the desert, nor should the black range mountains on one side and the valley of death as the pits the mexican people once called it on the east side. It's it's full of beautiful sense. I think about three hundred seventy days a year I wouldn't mind living there actually find written this book. Maybe I'd move their bad, it's it's at the time this broke. There were some pretty nasty things going on in tat, nothing to compare what David wisdom that he'd been there for several years, sort
bring people in this eight by twenty five foot trailer out in front of his house, and it's still hard for me to imagine that a lot of people in town didn't have some idea of what was going on. Ok, let's start with the way you've laid out. Your book is very, very interesting and again, if you're going to have, but it really did it compels people to read that the story. This is the I think the way to do it so a lot. Of course you don't have to put in a chronological order- and I I ask you why a man you start with a prologue to your book, which isn't unusual in itself, but you includes certain certain information in the very beginning of your book. Now I want ask you what is included in the prologue an? Why did you feel it best to put it where you did.
Why you didn't that information, one, whether couple a really interesting facts that come out and prolong the? Let me just read when little session. This is the first thing you read in the book. Yes, this is a police search warrant from April thirteenth. Ninety, ninety nine and you have to remember that the description of this video that you can hear from this police warrant. I never saw a video showing any of this at all, but I did see the the the hard copy from the police. I listen to this. The black massed in storage, shed David story said that they were searching appears from the description given to be the mast or similar mask which David re has been observed, wearing and video tapes which were seized from his residence and which were viewed by officers pursuant to previous search words. Well, I have always felt that there were videos that nobody's ever see, I'm not even sure champion of the prosecutor. I saw this video, but I have always felt that the FBI
Have more material that they didn't really so a lot of law enforcement people were worried that if the public got too much information about David Ray, it would incite a lot of violent behavior. Well, so that's one thing that search which remains mysterious to me, because there's only one video of David that anybody's ever seen anybody from the outside world, like Maine or people who went to the two trials and that's a six minute, video tape and David's definitely not wearing a black mask the second part of the pro.
Drug deals with FBI agent in a decision by the FBI, which I personally thought was really a bad one, a woman named well, I won't. I won't really describe her by name. Her families probably suffered nothing that people read the book, they'll get it anyway, but a thirty six year old woman was hired by the FBI, one of their agents to go into Davids torture chamber which had one hundred thousand dollars worth of equipment, and it had a kind of logical table that he strapped women down to it. Had television sets that force them to watch their bodies being tortured by David, there was a eighteen inch dildo with a motor with a high low and medium speed, indescribable stuff. You know some of that. He made simple, but he bought in legal stores. But the FBI decided
to send a woman into make drawings of what this place look like, and maybe I'm just an old fashion, macho guy, but I wouldn't send a woman in to view this stuff at all, even though a lot of women read this book, there's a big difference between reading about this stuff and seeing it sure and I've, seen a lot of the pictures that look like inside. So I know quite a bit about that. I've also seen David's drawings, which are really monstrous torture, drawings. But what happened was Russ went in and she did her job for several days and then she drove to Albuquerque. I guess I did mention her by name, but she drove to Albuquerque and reported to her boss and then went back to El Paso
and shot and killed herself yeah. It's incredible struck me is really interesting when the story was all over that, if David hadn't been captured, she might have still been alive. True crime has a lot of really strange twist and that might not have been one that people would have thought about before and I didn't think about it for a long time either. But I always felt real bad that that happened to her and her family. Certainly in it it realism, estimated. You know, we see all kinds of programmes where these these police or are eager they'll. They love their job. Where that you know it, it affects them. But this is. This is the real story or somebody so affected. They kill themselves those those memories are haunting them. They can't handle this job that they certainly took. Knowing what possibly could
they could see on the job? What they could experience in, yet you're sort of true crime is like throwing a rock in a lake, the Ripple, Cisco off forever in all directions in, in fact, so many peoples lives. This story is still having negative impact on a lot of people almost certainly now we have a one of the main characters in this harrowing story is Cindy vigil. Twenty two: you introduce real serious work. Ok, thanks now you introduce her in chapter one. What are the circumstances in which we, the reader, yet to meet Cindy V Hill? Well,.
Cindy Hill when she was in her early 20s. I think it's fair for me to say this, because I've spent a lot of time talking to her, but she made some bad decisions about her life and she was working as a hooker out on Central Ave in Albuquerque, and she got lured by David, Miss Girlfriend one day into the back of their little mobile home trailer, an all of a sudden v, Hilda Girlfriend pulled a gun on her and they blindfolded during Gagnon changes to the Wall and Rover S. One hundred and twenty miles south
To truth or consequences and kept her for three days and tortured, so you know that she's a prostitute and that made the book challenging to write because a lot of people don't think prostitutes are sympathetic. But in my opinion, if everybody in life was honest about what they did sexually between the ages of twenty and thirty, there might be a lot of scandalous stories out there and I've seen how she's turned her life around since this happened, she's married and has three kids she's doing a beautiful job raising and she's turned into a wonderful person. It could be that this experience really altered her in some positive ways, even though her three days was was pretty monstrous right. Now, let's get to know, you mean described somewhat. The torture chamber and but we'd have not met David. Parker Ray and we have not met his his partner. Let's go back
Give us a little bit of background on David Parker Ray and then we can go on and and talk about his his part there are crime, and then we can go on to the whole group and satanism and talk about so many of these other things tell us about the main subject of this book. The very. Charismatic, I would say, but the the subject of this book David Parker Ray, tell us a little bit about him. I think a lot of us have met people like David. He was.
All shy and kept himself one home. He was an ace mechanic palm some people that worked within said he was the best car mechanic. They never met, so he was good with his hands and he was good with details. He grew up way out in the country, far away from every major city, a pretty lonely kid in lotta respects in fact away he got his name is pretty interesting. He had two uncles went one whose name was David and long before he was born, come his uncle David was shot and killed by his brother in an accidental shooting in his grandma decided, that's where his name would come from and he wasn't real fond of his grandma was not from when he told me anyway. Can he said by the time I was twelve thirteen years old? I was. I had explosives, I was blown up Samson and he claims in his journals in his own writings, that by the time he was fifteen or sixteen he had broken beer bottles that he was using torture, girls with so he he was ended his stuff for a long time and what must criminals get caught after ten or fifteen years? David was a criminal for at least forty years. He opened up to the FBI, did a three hundred page interview with the FBI, but I dont know if they forgot to tell him that I had the right to an attorney or not, but unfortunately that that's terrific interview which I read about half of was not allowed in court because he wasn't over. His rights were, but he.
I think there are trying to do in open up and tell them as much as possible, and he he basically manipulated almost everybody he ever came in contact with, which means that he was highly intelligent one one of the age and told me that they consider David RE, one of the five most intelligent criminals. They had studied in many two years of being in the business, but he hung out with his friends. He had a little satanic group of about forty five people that we know of in town who who helped him torture. People one of the fascinating parts of this story, is that they ve never found the body and if you ever go to suddenly Mexico, it's it's covered with old mines. Its covered with caves. There are thousands of places where he could lower dead body standing underground. Jimmy ionized talk about had, it must have been at last. Supper seem like the one in the Bible underground with women's bodies propped up around a table. A David was a splinter in a lot of. People may not know that word, but he had a licence from California that where they had taught him had crawled animal caves, repelled then the case with ropes, so he could have easily lowered some of those bodies in the case, but so far as of two thousand ten I haven't found
sorry, I think I think, someday down the road long after many of us are gone, they'll they'll find somebody's, but he was convicted on several other atrocities other than murder. Now his partner, it was Cynthia Hendy, now tell us a little bit about her her background and tell us bout how David Ray and Cynthia Handy actually met before we get into the rest of it. Well, First of all, a lot of people in this story were abused. Real badly is children, sexually abused, physically abused, emotionally abused, and that's not an excuse, because a lot of people who grow up with that kind of environment. Louis Armstrong is a good example
His mother was Sweetwater, but a lot of people who grew up in difficult situations manage to make good choices themselves, but boil die after after the research that I did. You know that the whole book could be a testament to the evils. The child of these visits, I'm on those individual people and society in general. The hill grew up in a pretty horrendous home. Deceive you an example, one little example when she was eleven, she told her mind than her. Stepfather was sexually molest singer and commanded believer in kicked out of the house and in I could tell you stories about a lot of people. In this case you no good guys in bad guys who grew up in real difficult homes, home, but veal was married several times and was real sexually active. She was small but really strong, went one of her friends said that that at a hundred and ten pounds you could be an opportunity. Twenty pan women in a bar. So she was a tough cookie and she and her boyfriend got involved in some fat problems. Some drug problems up by Monroe and they escape washing state escaped the authorities. I think it was about nineteen only seven. Two years before David was arrested and he met her one day. He was working for the Parsee wrist and he met her out of work release. I think, and they struck up a relation.
Ship right away he's been living there along time, he's been married three times and he'd, been by himself for quite awhile and he's been doing a lot of kidnapping during that period we have. We have records that he kept from those three years prior to ninety seven and he was real, real active at that time, but Hindi. She said something that I'll never forget. One of her friends indicated that she had come over and talk to him about some of the girls. They were kidnapping. An handy told this guy in town one time she said I'd like to take the breath out of one- and I thought that was a very chilling thing to say about murder, but she was definitely part of it. She was sentenced to thirty six years
in New Mexico, you only do half the time so she's done about ten. So far she has eight more to go and she wrote me a letter last year. She apparently is interested in writing a book and and asked me if I'd be willing to help her, which which I'm not willing to do, but if she would ever tell the truth, the whole truth instead of just part of the truth, her story would be very interesting. She claims that David told her that he killed at least fourteen people in that he described to her how he sank, some of them in the lake and buried some other mountain. The dead Now we talk about sending veal twenty two in chapter one, like I ask you: what are the circumstances where we do meet her and so tell us what happens on that fateful day and is it? How does it then led to the arrest of David Ray and
Cynthia had beheld tell us about this one incredible day that I talked about where she was run, in the trailer court. It was. It was March 22nd, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine and David went to work that day he put on his little rancher uniform that he had to wear and went to work, repairing vehicles for Elephant Butte State Park, which was a few miles down the road and they had had v hill in captivity. Now for almost three days,
Have they been torture? They had her chamber the wall that they had a pet bull dog collar round her neck she's, a small woman, maybe five point five to and they had about a five. What chain chaining her naked body to the wall, the living room and on that afternoon, David was at work eyes. Girlfriend is third there, too, Cindy's you're so does yellow confusing and his colleague veal in handy veal, being the victim, the girl from Albuquerque that they kidnapped in handy being the girl friend, and he was in the kitchen supposedly making sandwiches and potato salad for a picnic, but they wouldn't have that afternoon and during that period of time the victim saw. A ring of keys, like you see on a television, show Lange on a table about four or five years away, and she stuck her foot out and pull the table over next to her dislike. Any smart person would do, but there were probably twenty five keys, at least on this ring and she started trying to unlock herself from the wall and she couldn't find the right key and she made a little commotion. Little noise and Hindi heard it from the kitchen and came out to living room of the double wide trailer in all the suddenly squirrels gotten his big cat fight and somehow the hill managed to find the key during the fight and unlock herself from the wall, and you know, candy hit her over the head with a green glass lamp. I have pictures of of that lamps Mass and on the floor, but somehow in I guess when you're fighting for your life- and certainly they were red on the verge of taking her out to the toy box, which
but David called is torture chamber an probably they were going to murder her, it's hard to say, but she felt like if she didn't escape that afternoon. At that moment it was all over for her and looking back on it now. Her act of bravery is unsurpassed really without her there's a good chance that it would still be out there with his friends, torturing people anyway, she V Hill bolted loose from this fight as soon as she unlocked her cell
from the wall. Although let me tell you how I forgot, one really important element, a vital element. In fact, what freed her up more than anything was a small box that fell off the shelf in and hit the far right in front of her during the fight and when the box open, there was an ice pick inside of it. Him love people believe in an act of God. This was an act of God, beginner Novogrod that I speak in Stab Hindi in the back of the neck, just enough to to really stop handy
for a moment just for a couple of seconds and boom, always sudden of eels out the door ran down this road bass, road Toby naked. She sees a car coming down the road. She went up to the car, the woman in the cars, terrified rules, upper windows and drives off, and I think later felt pretty bad about that. But the heel kept going down in the corner Turk took a right down towards the lake Elephant cute like and ran down this paved road and managed to spot just the right white double wide trailer to run into, and then there was a woman.
Sitting in her kitchen having a smoke in a cup of coffee, her husband was out in the backyard an all of a sudden. This girl dashes through the door and she's covered with blood and mud and feces and screaming help me help me at the top of her lungs Ann Darlene. Who really is another hero there, a bunch of heroes in this story, just very coolly grabs. Your phone hits nine one, one an probably fifty six minutes later the police come out an pick up. The hill. Take her to the hospital and she survived that ordeal and then probably a half an hour later to other police are closing down the road and then there's David driving around with his girlfriend. You know handy looking for the snake, a girl,
Course I got her, it was gonna be all over, but they didn't they got arrested and two and a half years later, David get two hundred and twenty four years about a year and a half later his girlfriend got thirty six years. It was a long term convoluted chase to nail into the wall, but the big advantage for me, as an author and for the authorities was, he was unable to destroy anything in his house during his toy box, and so I had access through this great prosecutor that sort of number one here of my book stimulants. This grizzly bear of a man who was patient enough to try this case. I had access to all sorts of things that really helped me especially FBI, audiotape, that David made hum so that with the scene at afternoon you know, David's off at work is girlfriends at home, making the data, salad and all the seven a captive escapes and girlfriend calls David may get together immediately and sir driving down the roads. Looking for this girl.
And fortunately she she ran into a home where somebody was there, I mean she could have tried five or six trailers where everybody was gone. It was a beautiful day, but Darlene was there and did all the right things to credible story. This woman, you just get sucked in this drama. It's something right out of a fictional movie, now running down this his trailer court, where the padlock around a chain- and I M a dog collar naked, like you say, covered in blood running in a trailer screaming for life, while her captors are looking for in a small little trailer court anyway. What I wanted also ask you with another important person in subject in this kid in the story, is an Angelique Montana, who wish one might have on you. I think a very powerful again. Thank you for that. Well, I don't know I didn't pronounced them all right. My first answer either yeah and who is she and how is she involving the story? Well-
it was a woman who used to have a lot of problems with drugs up in Albuquerque and moved with her son to truth or consequences and still had problems with drugs. I think, and she was kind of a confused person as little as I know about her. She she appeared to have some emotional problems. She got kicked out of her apartment for nonpayment of ran at one point before she was kidnapped by David. He loaned her a pup tent and she was living with her son, who was five or six years old down the beaches of Elephant Butte Lake in a pup tent. She had some friends there that told me she was just a woman who had never quite been able to put her emotional life together, but she got kidnapped by David about say a month before V Hill did
and she was in the torture chamber for awhile, in fact, the globe did a big article with her. She she had lost. She had lost one of her brown eyes in a drug related acts and unfortunately, maybe because she didn't have very much money. You got replaced with a blue eyes, so she had one brown and one blue eye and the tabloid people promise to get her matching eyes. She did this story which never happened actually, but in my book you can read what she says in her globe article about her time with David, but what she did was she got some sympathy from V Hill and she talk David into letting her go and I think the hill are, I think, skews me Hindi. I'm sorry handy had something
Do that to sorry, you think, after all these years, I have all these names down permit. This is not a story, you think about everyday, your life. If you, if you had to go about it for four years, In any case, I think that handy had a little bit to do with her being released, but David after several days of torture took Angie out on a road and let her go to hitchhike back to town, but he knew that a reputation was so shaking in town that probably nobody would believe her. In fact, she supposedly according to what I was able to get as she told the policeman who picked her up here, checking the story and he didn't tell anybody about it because it just didn't see incredible to him. But after David was arrested, all of a sudden everything fell into place in the interview Angie and she told him her story and she would have been the next person up for a trial after the Kelly Van Cleave trial. But unfortunately,.
DR died of a drug overdose and some related problems with pneumonia. I think I am Albuquerque about a year later. She was only twenty seven years old and she had she had a real tragic life. Also her her brother was a killer. She turned him in turn: men in the police for murder and her mother blamed her said of her brother and never never really forgave him. For doing that, I feel like a lot of abused human beings. I think they make a lot of efforts to resurrect their lives, but when you have to start work in that hard at it when you Ten, twelve fourteen years old, sometimes it's pretty tough to get away from trouble. Yeah, it's a hard overcome that amount of adversity. Sure! Yes, yes, it is. It really is yeah, it's a tragic story. This is like you say, this is very ripple effect how many people were fatally affected here.
I was lucky there's any even bright spot in the book. Here. It's such a devastating story. I will believe that some people believe that David was evil in a biblical kind of sensing that he still has control over our lives. I don't happen to believe that I mean I can tell you some real bad luck stories, a lot of us run into since we met David, but I don't think it has anything to do with him. I think itself. Bad luck, no curse! Now this book talks about Satanism in a lot of Vienna. You could see programmed and you ve taught at there has been box where there is talk of Satanism, but I think this is one of the few books that I've ever read, including the some story that there really seems to be some real, credible Satanism going on here. He had this little group and I mean the evil that contained here that some of the stuff, that's in guys mind and on these tapes. Certainly, is that
tell us a little bit about the Satanism and if you, if you don't mind, if you can do this, can you read some of this transcriber describes what is in these excerpts from transcribe video tape? the author and find one. Second, just a quick little warning, my Phone is pretty old. I'm not a big technology person in I've had my phone for about. Oh, I don't know ten twelve years, but there's a small beeping sand that I can probably here my end and you can't hear at year end in I've heard it before in usually does there's not a problem with that, but it for some reason. My my phone bombs out on you at looks like we ve got about fifteen or twenty minutes ago. Yet I'm gonna try to get as much information.
Commissioner, if I can ok, let me me grab the book here and I'm: U. Satanism is hard for a lot of people to buy a journal. They just aren't into it, but David had that he had been the case in the robes in and in the worship ceremonies that he put people through. You know that he made seven of these I was told there were six, but I think there were seven seven in the audiotapes where he actually created a tape recording that he could play for victims and all they were tight up on the couch. And you know all of a sudden. Instead of him telling you what he was going to do to you. He turned on his tape recorder and you listen to him and when you hear a guy with an Oklahoma Texas, accents
hello there bitch in the first tape those three words alone are really shocking and then he goes on to describe what he's going to do and there's one tape where he talks about how he's going to bring into german shepherds he's going to rub: musk oil on the Womans for China and bring in horny dogs and let the dogs screw the women. Those are his terms and I'm sure he did that. You know there are descriptions of that from at least one of the three victims, but he talks about how he's going to time up an basically torturing lots of ways and I'm going to give you a couple of specific examples. There's one tape where you can hear a woman crying in the background, and you can hear other people talking in the other room. So I imagine they were torturing a young woman and he goes into quiet him down to quiet his followers down. You know he tells the tape recorder the next audience I gotta go in there and shut the
guys up, and then he comes back and he laughed and he describes what they're doing to this woman and what they're doing is they're putting out their cigarette butts on her breast. So you know the when I got my hands on the tapes
I read all one hundred and seventy five pages of the FBI: audiotapes Single Spaced. You know incredible stuff and I didn't want the book to just be a study in horror. It operates on a lot of different levels, but I felt like the tapes really got. People in David's head, so they'd know a little bit more about what he was all about, and so I picked out five hundred am and probably out of one hundred and seventy five pages interspersed the tapes in five different places and probably didn't cover more than maybe fifteen or sixteen pages out of one hundred and seventy five. But let me just see if I can. I don't have my book open to an exact spot, but I think I can probably find one quick enough hang on for a second, oh here we
Are you still always pages memorized, tremble? Okay, this is from the video paper was found. It found in the toy box itself, yeah yeah. There was one six minute, video tape and that's all they got. Thirty minutes of that video tape is blanked out the cameras. Looking at the ceiling, so it makes you feel, like David erased, a hell of a lot of stuff. Ok, I'm gonna! I'm still coming through here a little bit. I've gotten to the section of the FBI.
Ok, I want to read too much, but all this really a little bit here. This is the middle of a second oh yeah. Oh god, I'm! So that's the part about handy me, some back or here we go. He saw him about a hooker that he kidnapped and tortured. She was a hooker because she had a hundred dollars because she had one hundred dollars a day drug habit. But she had already told me that that was why she agreed to. Let me spank her for one hundred dollars: that's how he first got her and then he and then he I think he used a gun inside her up and took over. She go get her drugs, so she didn't have to work for the rest of the night. I didn't colour them that she wasn't going to be working again for quite a while she so didn't get the one hundred dollars bill
already taken that out of her talk using hang on to sit up a little threat, by that time. I was horny as hell. I climbed on the table and put this little bit of vaseline right around the head of my dick and stuck it in her asshole. Apparently she didn't get that too much. It was nice and tight. After that. I gave her a damn good, ass fucking and what he's done she was a big breasted hooker and he goes into great detail here to describe her body. Uh. You know he talks about her being tide down. The little whore was bouncing your ass all over the table. When I finished wrapping your down, I buckled table scraps around her upper chest. Sore rib cage Labelling, anyway, just goes on alone. So what he would do as he would warn them with this audio of
in eminent torture. His lack of regard for these people. This is evil persona expressed in these audio tapes and then he would for days, torture these women. What I wanted to be a sexual sadist, it's about watching the fear in the girls eyes, that's what he gets off on. That's what he basically emotionally and physically and mentally jacks off on is the fear in, and he builds up that fear with these audio tapes and then, of course, what he does to them is. Really, terrific: now, why? Why are you so confident before we knew we ve got about sixty minutes, but why are you so confident wire the authority so confident that he's there's not deviate that he's just doesn't enjoy it is a man, s, aunt em and pour it in bondage and it's gone too far. Clearly,
but why how our authority so certain that he's a killer offers of all the testimony of all three girls lined up. You know the things that they talked about in none of
had heard the audio tapes or refuse me one had heard, not you take the other to it. Not the girl went to court and testified against. Him was also very brave girl Van Cleve, Kelly Van Cleve. You know her description of what happened to her lined up perfectly with what David talked about me, audiotape and she was kidnapped in ninety ninety six. She made the audio teach in eighteen. Ninety three, you know, I think, that the blood, the pictures on his wall inside of the torture chamber, where pictures of women banning gagged in incredible distress- and you know in his drawings it I can't describe the drawings. I've got about seventy of my thing, but he keys. He was really artistic in and he drew all these torture devices that he built in palm in true how women would be strap down. I think it was too not give you two long of an answer and I feel like maybe some lancers Adela lengthy, but now, if you, if you add up all the stuff, that the audio pits the drawings, what David told the FBI and the three hundred page interview, he told him. He was real worry with him start torturing, ten year old girls, and I think he was worried about it. I think they had plans. We know they had plans to kidnap one little girl in town and her mother when she found out about it moved at ten immediately left her their consequences in twenty four hours. You know his daughter was also very involved within others. A young woman who disappeared from a tavern in Albuquerque in the last person she was seen with, was Jesse RE, but we know that Jesse basically kidnapped Kelly Van Cleve at a bar one night and took over the dead ass for torture. The only reason that David daughter didn't do more time was because I think the prosecutor getting tired of dealing with occasionally wanted David to plead guilty, and he said I'll do that. If you let me in utter off in the letter out after three years, she probably should
got a hell of a lot more time than that for what she did. But this moment in Albuquerque disappeared, I mean the last person they saw it with Jesse Ray it was a gay bar Jesse used to write her big goldwing around and there's a fair amount of evidence that she helped her dad a number of times, but I think it's just the overwhelming just you get staggered what he does when you inhale all this information. He does intimate, though, on these tapes that. He's not at first the killing, he says, oh yeah right about? He talks about taking a woman's life. He warned through this. You know you might die, cannot behave then he certainly talks about it. He says quite incredible, quote like if killed all the women that I tortured torture. You know they would fill up.
It also heed clearly intimates that he's killed before he has the capacity to kill me doesn't mind killing. So right. That's why I asked it seems the authorities in everyone you itself here, including yourself, a burger convinced if this person just didn't deal with a cup two three victims. Well, if he was a smart as they say was, then he was smart enough to get rid of these bodies out in an you know, undeveloped area of the country, you know, where would be really are defined them Bergmann in we're talking about the thousands and thousands of miles wide, open, desert country. This is another note for anybody for anybody. Who's an apologist for David and I've, told a couple of people that have talked to me. I've said you know, I said you know sometime when we get together I'll bring my drawings, and I said the minute you see those drugs you'll be terrified terrified of this guy and you won't feel like it was just a kinky thing that he was into.
Because the women that he drew were deaf oil being tortured now, was that part of the trial that you just it you allude to that that somehow or other no, in fact, there was a hung jury on the first trial, which is a whole separate, interesting story. But one of the reasons the jury hung was because Yonce was not allowed to introduce any of the audio tapes. Mertz was the judge and he was running at real straight. He was really worried that it was going to be appealed if you got anything wrong and he said the tapes were made in ninety three there's: no proof that he played for Kelly Van Cleave and ninety six, and so we're not going to introduce them. Well. What happened without giving too much of the book away is that, right before the second trial, Mertz was pretty stressed out that he had to do this all over again and he at
the age of about five thousand three hundred and fifty four years old, he's taking a shower at home during jury selection. Any dies of a heart attack brought in at thirty seven year old, judge the youngest judge in New Mexico history. To do a trial like this and Swayze allowed to play one of those audio tapes that probably sealed the deal in the second trial David. Certainly and his party and its partners Cynthia these well, I think so I mean to you know she got nailed by beheld because veal
You know really had a lot of wrong information about her and finally, she turned on David, which is characteristic of a lot of women in murder, cases that they will turn on the man, not not that this is a good or a bad thing, but that happens quite often she decided to rather than getting one hundred and fifty years, she turned states evidence and she told him that up at the fourteen dead people that David talked about and she described in detail, well, how David used to sink him in the lake and she gave him a lot of other information. I don't see, I don't think she gave him everything she had, but she open some doors for the prosecutors and when they walked in, they were able to nail David more effectively because of that, and so in return. They gave her a letter sends you do talk about, though, that there was some talk that. Parker David part me, David Ray, had
said to her his his party crime. Do whatever it takes, help yourself that she had originally pleaded guilty and then wanted to change your plea: yeah, that's right, yeah and that's that's an interesting part of the story. The trouble with handy is she. She tells different stories about men all the time I mean she had a boyfriend that she got put in jail down there. He move down there with her a big tall guy that she was involved with an she claimed that he beat her up and she actually hit herself in the face. I think, with pots and pans to make it look like he did not to say they
He had beaten right before I'm sure he probably done that too. But she, you know, I've got one letter. She wrote to the judge about her boyfriend before David saying, please let him go he's a well meaning guy we've been trying to get work. I mean she had a history of flip flopping back and forth on what she said, which makes it hard to believe that she'll ever get a book deal, because I don't think anybody's ever going to believe the story that she tells him, even if it is the whole truth. There is talk into your book tube that she had actually called the FBI about her father and then retracted, a story just to give some credit. What you just said. Polly our year, making eighty six there's somebody so plots going on in the story.
Which, for me, as an author, really made it a great book to write. You know I'm not comparing myself to Stephen King, but if you could imagine Stephen King writing, mysterious damn book on the face of the planet, this would be the book. This would be a story. It's a horror. Novel is what it is. That's the way it turned out, even though it's all true, but yeah, the daughter Jesse in nineteen. Eighty six David was cheating her at a drug money. They were growing marijuana up in northwestern New Mexico and he wasn't paying his daughter off. That's what she claimed later, and so she says that she turned him in an accused him of torture and kidnapping in Mexico and all this other stuff and later she told the FBI. That was all a big lie. It was really about her, not getting paid or drug money. So so, like handy, it's easy to get the two of am confused too, but Jesse.
Right, like handy, didn't, always tell the truth, and so it makes it difficult, sometimes to know what, when they do talk to somebody what they are saying, whether it's true or not, and obviously, but by the way the FBI investigated David for a whole year on those charges, those kidnapping and torture charges in nineteen eighty six and they couldn't find anything to support what his daughter it said. There's another strong central character in here. We only have a few minutes, but I know that you included this person in the book because he felt important and her name is Sir Francis bared later France, his beard Sanchez, but Can you tell us a little bit about why she's important to this story? Well, she was. She was really a great.
Yeah all the way around. Her grandma owns one of the local newspapers in down there, three newspapers in this town, which makes it a pretty well read little community by the way, even though they do have a lot of heavy drug use down there. They have a lot of people love to read, and this is the best I think, of the three newspapers, in my opinion, an and when the story broke. Her grandma put her on the case. She was only seventeen years old Francis was, and she followed the case religiously for about a year and a half and wrote three award winning stories. They want AP awards, actually she's a great researcher and then just before the first trial, one of the prosecutors, not you know it's one of the other prosecutors set for
Finally, we should come up. I think you're gonna be a little bit gross for you. What were introducing as evidence in such a kind of starting to fly back from the story, but she did. She did her brilliant journalistic damage before she laughed and now. She's must be twenty twenty, eight twenty nine, and I'm only talk to a couple of times recently but but she's more horrified by the case, as a grown up than she was ass, a teenager. She was a fearless fearless were border and the two heroes. My book are the forty seven O prosecutor, Jim Yards, whose resurrecting his career after being pushed out. Nabob Jerky, that's whole great story to and then a seventeen year old reporter takes on one of the nastiest cases you could ever imagine and Francis wasn't abuse is a child. A lot of women who read books like this are women and trying to still untangle their own personal lies with their parents and what happened in this kid's and they read a lot of these books have meant a lot of a book signings. I met a woman, one book shining harshly, murder, asthma and got away with it because he beat her up in him and did so much harm, and she asked me how charming David was her husband with real terming too, but I think the stories about evil I mean and I'm not out of religious person, but I remember grown up and in a first for Methodist Church where they talked about this kind of stuff, and I didn't buying
Do it growing up throughout my life- and I don't know if I'm buying into it now, but I think David was way more than just a cycle path. He was pure evil in the sense of having a large dose of the devil in his personality. Now we've got about three minutes left, so we can talk about a few things. I also just wanted Have you there's another character me named Dennis Roy Jansky that got sucked into the Satanism and was also charged for murder initiative. This will just leave that for the reader who were discover for themselves and in your incredibly have worker gas. It gets out this year by the way he did his ten years and he's the only one associated with murder, he murdered a woman named Mary Parker under Davids two deleage now he claimed, but they gave him twenty years and he did his ten and he might be out right now. I don't know it'll be real interesting if he starts talking again.
What he has to say now, David Ray David Parker Ray, will never be released from prison. Now he died in prison. He died in prison yeah. He was. He was sentenced to two hundred and twenty four years about eight days after the nine slash eleven explosions. I think it was the 18th of the 19th of September and he died the following May of a massive heart attack down in Hobbs New Mexico. They just transferred him to another prison and his last attorney, Lima, and thinks that David did it to himself and you'll never gave him how hard it back. How would you have done it well, they were put out display once you said, watch me and he lowered his blood pressure by two thirds and in this way watch David, her White Oliver.
Which is willpower, leave and even had a nice route. Congestive heart failure to serve their so you can check it up the magical thinking if you want to or whatever you want call it, but anyone, the young man, a combination yeah. He was like fifty nine years old or sixty one by them. Ok, we've just got a little bit of time. This was your first true crime book. What else have you done say the hand and Just tell us about any new project, you're working on any other books that listeners that might be interested would like to go into investigating,
well, I got a job as a sixth grade teacher, which was a miracle. It was kind of an accident, but I ended up teaching, math and science to these beautiful eleven year old children for six years, and that was the flip side of David Parker Ray to be around innocence and beauty and laughter and all the things that that I had not had a chance to enjoy very, very large degree. So I did that for six years, but now I'm I'm working on a novel about a guy from Tennessee who gets his wife gets kidnapped in nineteen, forty nine and he comes to Texas, shut down the killer and he ends up shooting the wrong man. He shoots the twin brother of the real killer. Have you got a working title for that? No
just call it one thousand nine hundred and forty nine. But I think it's a good story. I think I think making a big huge mistake in your life that you can't reverse and then, of course, in this case being tracked down by the evil twin brother and the police, I don't know it'll be fun to write yeah, it sounds interesting, and so how did this sort of alluded to it? How did this in the end just around up? How did this affect you writing this book? What would say in the end the positive with a negative?
Well, you know. I, my wife, and I split up six months later in the book- definitely played a role in that I'm not saying it was the big biggest region, but her therapist told her that only a sick person could write a six story like this, which wow bs. As far as I was concerned, but then I lost that relationship with my wife and my stepdaughter, which meant a lot to me. They were both real supportive. I've spent most of my life since then, with my cat reading, good books, I'm reading a book on the little bighorn right now I love to read and I keep a journal all the time, so I have kept up as a writer, but I haven't produced anything since then. Maybe David took it all out of me. I have friends who think that's true, but I don't think the book damaged me in anyway, so I I think I was very fortunate.
I have a great editor, Michael Hamilton. My last editor Kensington, give me a lot of support in the book Kanda its old, nearly a hundred and fifty thousand copies. So I know that I wrote it. I wrote a cure. The way I wanted to write it and I think it will be around long after I am yes, I think you did a great job in this book. In a credible red, slow death, Jim Filter, the sick of cereal torture killer ever a man never mind the southwest. I agree that this is one of the citizen, real killers ever and an incredible book, incredible story, and thank you very much for me. This interview, Jim and I want to thank you again. I remember well thank you, Jim And you have a good evening and wrap up the show now. Thank you very much and have yourself a good evening. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
And listen to the programme to murder the more shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors have written about them. Join me next time. Goodnight.
Dan hi, I'm Jay Farner, ceo of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea, a better idea, maybe to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point. Ninety nine percent APR four point: eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com right. Subject, change one point: twenty five percent of receive this kind of call for cause information conditions, equal housing, lender, license and updates a number three. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly motor lawn. Ask if anybody noticed you mowed, the lawn, tell people to stay off the lawn, compare it to your neighbors lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again good news. Is it's easy to model home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance, which
of course, we'll go right into the lawn, progressive casualty, insurance company, affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states? Are situations.
Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.