In March 2009, Michael Jackson stood before the world press and announced that he would be doing a series of live concerts at London's Grand Concourse stadium, beginning in July. The shows would be called "This Is It," and he referred to them as his "final curtain call.". But Michael would never make any of the dates. In June "The King of Pop" died at his Los Angeles home.In 2004, a San Diego jury convicted Richard Tuite of fatally stabbing a 12-year-old Escondido girl named Stephanie Crowe. He was originally charged with murder in the case, but jurors rejected that and lowered the conviction to voluntary manslaughter when they decided he didn't act with malice, a necessary ingredient for a murder count. He was given a new trial and prosecuted for voluntary manslaughter, due to double jeopardy attached to the murder charge. Tuite was acquitted by a second San Diego jury.Dr. Cyril H. Wecht is an expert in Forensic Medicine. His expertise has been utilized in high profile cases involving the assassinations of both President John F. Kennedy and Senator Robert F. Kennedy, the death of Elvis Presley, the O.J. Simpson case, and the JonBenet Ramsey case.Dawna Kaufmann is an investigative journalist and co-author of 3 books with Dr. Wecht. A Question of Murder (2009) which includes chapters about the deaths of Anna Nicole Smith and the trials of Richard Tuite and From Crime Scene to Courtroom (2011) examining the deaths of Michael Jackson, Caylee Anthony and Rolling Stone Brian Jones. FROM CRIME SCENE TO COURTROOM and A QUESTION OF MURDER-Dawna Kaufmann and Dr. Cyril Wecht
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hi, I'm Jay Farner CEO of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange. At one point, two five percent be receive the discount rate, all the concentration in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and one hundred thirty hi, I'm Jay Farner CEO of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange. At one point, two five percent be receive the discount rate, all the concentration in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and with over thirty thirty law,
You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening This episode of true murder is brought to you by audible. The world leading name in digital audio books in
Two thousand and nine Michael Jackson stood before in your fixed income, stand the test of time markets change, but the role of fixed income should that's why, for more than forty years and a fast to stay true to our traditional approach, we call it essential, fixed income find out more and the fast dot com, slash fixed income or the World Press and announced that he would be doing a series of live concert at London's Grand Concourse stadium. Beginning in July. The shows will be called this. Is it and refer to them as his final curtain call, but Michael would never make any dates in June. The king of pop died at his LOS Angeles home in two is an four San, Diego jury convicted Richard to it of fatal E sing a twelve year old Esconde, a girl named Stephanie Crowe only charged with murder in the case, but jurors rejected that and lowered the conviction to voluntary manslaughter when they decided he didn't act with malice
The Syrian for a murder count is give no new trial and prosecuted for balance don't turn manslaughter due to double jeopardy. Attaches the murder charge two it was can did, however, buy a second San, Diego jury, Doctor Cyril, H, wecht is an expert in forensic medicine. His expertise as been utilized in high profile cases involving the assassinations of both president Kennedy and Senator Robert Kennedy, the death of Elvis Presley, and the Oj Simpson case and the Jon Benet Ramsey case Donna, Kaufman, Is an investigative journalist and co author of three books with doctor wecht, a question of murder, which includes chapters about the deaths of Anna Nicole Smith and the trials of Richard to it. Anne from crime scene to court room two thousand and eleven examining the death of Michael Jackson. Caylee, Anthony and Rolling Stone Brian Jones. The books were going to discuss
this evening, our crime scene to courtroom and a question of murder and, as I just spoke to Donna Kaufman, an update on final exams. Please welcome my special guest Wanna, Coffman and Doctor Cyril Wecht. Welcome back to the program, Donna, Kaufman and Doctor Cyril Wecht. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to you and thank you for inviting us. Yes thank Thank you very much now, as you. We just I just alluded to: let's talk about final exams. Before we get into this incredible, you know we only have an hour or an hour and a half here. So we're going to be able to try to cover incredible information that you have jam packed in all of these books, but we're going to do crime scene to courtroom annex mission of murder and discuss particular cases that appear in both those books, but, as you said, maybe you can go ahead or whoever wants to go ahead. Give us the update on the latest
When I interviewed you in the fall final exams tell us with this latest update is Okay, may I do that cereal? Please. We touched on this in our initial interview with you, Dan and we have a chapter in final exam, called the willing victims, and it's about a guru of self help Guru name Jeffrey locker who lived in the tony par of Manhattan and fifty two year old guy who White God, who drove to the black part Town Uptown in Manhattan called Harlem. And he he the man he had never seen before named Jeff Tennis, minor thirty six year, the old guy and convey this guy to kill him in the
I said: well, there's a bridge, wait right there! Would you jump off the bridge? No, no! That wouldn't do because the guy's finances were hitting the skids and he needed to make it look like murder. So he gave us this thirty six year old man, black man, a bunch of money, and I said here you know you could have anything in the car. Just here's. Here's here's something to choke me with tie my hands behind my back and Try to strangle me. Will the cord broke and then he said, okay in the Glove box right There's a knife now hold that knife against the steering and I will plunge myself into it and the guy of course there's. This is over several hours of time, the guys going Huaihua I do this and he says, because you know I'm going to find some other guy to do it. I
I'm going out tonight and that's it. My family is cool with this and they all know I'm worth more dead than alive. So it's not use it's someone else, so they can assist okay, fine! So we put the nice against the steering wheel and the Jeffrey locker impales himself. Six times on it and they they pick up this guy. The cops pick up this guy really quickly and arrest him and he tells him the story and they go yeah sure we've never heard of such a thing. Yeah aren't you the Harlem Kevorkian, ha ha ha and then in the course are going to trial the problem Peter is called by someone who says hey. You know that that you have on trial. Well, I gotta tell you this
group came to me and said the same thing I would I would. I took his money and split. I said I was going to get a gun, but this guy was definitely shopping. For someone to murder him, so that kind of changed everything now they started. Uh Are you in the defense attorney a wonderful attorney named Daniel Gotland started saying this is not murder. This is, if anything, assisted suicide. Now the guy who committed the crime was a drug addict and he was cope people for doing you, know, first class stupidity for sure, and he knows he has to go to jail, but he doesn't he we ended up getting a twenty five years to life sentence on, for degree, murder and I'm going to let you doctor West talk about what it what he testified to and what specifically the judge, who was a judge who basically had a
habit of telling defendants. I know that this is all you're supposed to get sentence, but I'm going to add time to your sentence. So this is a real hard nosed judge. So what she did not allow doctor wet to present to the jury has resulted in this man. This defendant soon to get new trial and will know in April there's new grand jury, they're quarreling about what are the new sentence is sentence possibilities, but you know doctor work, please explain in the wounds. So I wanted to add something first, the guy you alluded to it, but I'm not sure it's clear to d'ange listeners that reason: locker was going to kill himself. Because of his financial problems, which were going to be then taken care of by
about what was it? Thirteen million dollars of life insurance, exactly which he had taken out a double indemnity, eat for homicide and it became and quite clear, as Donna has mentioned, that the family knew about this. The two dk It went to the house that did tell this to wife and her two teenage kids. That has and father had been murdered it, which is what they firmly believe that that time they got about his much reaction as if they had said by the way your your husband has a flat tire down to block it, and he need you come down in the driving home at with the reaction that they got on these,
and they want to trial, and all these emails came out where it seemed very, very clear, so they can resolve that was not going on. There's no question be cause, then a couple of policies which have been paid have been rescinded, and money, I believe, has not been paid back and most of the policies which had not been paid have all been withdrawn. And to my knowledge there is no attempt there would not be any attempt by the widow because she's lucky- and this is not the purpose of writing about this or talking about it, but she is darn lucky not to have been charged. Criminal conspiracy, fraudulent conspiracy which she could well have been charged with and that's a significant problem, so she's not going to be doing anything. I still back now at two. In this scenario you hold the night- and I play this out for the National television program. With my assistant, And I was
MR locker sitting behind the wheel and my assistant was Kenneth. Minor is sitting to my right in the front seat passenger front and to hold a knife with the base of, the knife again, the center of the steering wheel with the appointed, facing just straight out of and locker, who is now firm we committed to commit to suicide he lunges forward and it people say well. How can you do that? Well, I showed, and once You do it Did you have that forward, lodging motion is to serve. This thing in the world to simply do it again and uh. So, as I pointed at all of the points of entry of penetration work within a tight tight range and I
wanted to show that if you are being stabbed to death in the homicidal attack. Obviously you're going to do everything you can to to get out of the way so than iphones in such a situation would be scattered here and there a in different directions and different topographic locations on the body. These were clustered quite close together and and essentially a clear cut pattern as depicted in the in the a lot we're kept plunging directly into the knife and is not it says. None of this was allowed. You know I is doing location and workers fifty two years and there are grave, or you know this is the worst. This is the third worst, the fifth best or whatever, but I do want. Decided appointed point. The this judge was one of the most biased judges. I've ever encounter- and I hope then, as I said to Dan Gartland recently,
congratulating him. I'm getting this re trial and negotiating courageously and firmly for a low level and thirteen manslaughter, which is what it should be Suicide is not legally recognized and and that's Psylocke and you can't block away, no matter what your intentions are, so everybody realizes that, but but I said you doing garden. I sure hope that you get a different judge and I would think that It is going to be. The case is a fascinating case at once in a lifetime kind of a case. Bizarre when you first hear about it, which the detectors and were subjected to initially and then you say yeah I told another one, but they came and by the way there was no are read all about this being eight a scenario: orchestrated by locker. That was no longer in contention, but they
arguing the prosecution that this is still first degree, murder and to this day don't understand that This is, of course the zeal and the the intent mister dedication. I call it. Dollar tree and even fanaticism addresses and then one counters with prosecutors. If you're United States not not at all rare- do have encountered this one, Can you put yourself was their racial component in the judge, his mind that she just didn't like this guy Well, I don't know in the mind of this victim who went to Harlem to find poor, drugged out black man, that he thought would be the person to do this- he didn't driver young, so any other part of town yeah. What there. There may well be the thing
we really arguing. The point is that you believe that you had valid and it's launch kredible to me and based on your credibility in your reputation and your experience, that what was the what was the reason for for this, allowing you to present your evidence at trial, and then what and then I'm curious. What is the basis for the trial. Now not just twelve sentence was in a broke as well. I I I I I testified. Please understand that and I was related to discuss some of the things I talk with you this evening. Yeah but the demonstration to which I refer a little bit ago and then, like, I, showed clearly On television forty nine, that where it was, you know a lot and that you have to see. I did that with an actual. It was a an actual it. Is a rubber knife. There were no hard plastic collapsible knife.
And and I showed with my hands, are tied behind my back and my System holding the knife that you just simply lunch forward with force. I talked about in explaining things getting into question of how much would it hurt and what does it take to what kind of forces it requires a and those are the things that one missed it really and especially a juror to do to understand he. How can this be done because I believe that nine out of ten people, perhaps even listening tonight, are saying good, vs and knuckles, not believe meeting with Don- and I are saying here- but I want to make it clear and I'm repeating myself. I know that this
it is not the prosecution and wholly accepted this scenario. Then they did not say that Kenneth Minor, stabbed him and murdered him- they they accepted this, but where they were saying was that it still constituted murder. Sobel the scenario was accepted but could not be really explain. Becaus. It was not permitted to be demonstrated to the jury. And the pathologist on the other side, who actually did the initial autopsy, had to concede that if someone was just going to get away from a knife attack, the wounds would be torn and the skin shredded, and there would be physical proof of that. Just
as you're looking at at the body on the morgue on the more table. It would be very clear, but what Cyril, I had out to had was the knife wounds going in very cleanly no tearing. So you know that was a very important point. But if they still think it's it's murder by definition, then they present that to the jury as and they and they are convincing. And have a compelling argument or they are convincing, will put it that way to a jury to juries, then they say that by definition some murder, because there's planning well the last I heard dance from, from Dan Gatlin but from Dan Garland and who call Donna in May it it's already. It's already agreed that it's kind of
a manslaughter. There are different levels of manslaughter that play out in terms of the years. Incarceration, There is an offer already made to attorney that Gatlin formation but garden, obviously, is fine, because it's up to the client that the attorney has rejected it I commend him and and admire his curry there, there saying what is the lower level of of involuntary manslaughter, which would permit him to be getting out of jail. Look in a relatively short time, a couple a few years or so on. Look assisted suicide is not recognized anywhere. In this country except and couple of states? And that's Exposition physician, assisted suicide. We are not arguing that this should be forgiven or ignored.
We understand that and whatever anybody may think, that's a discussion for another day, morally, ethically etc But what we're saying is that in this case, where you have proof that is not being challenged by the prosecution that this was indeed a suicide and let you have somebody a physically assisting then You know, especially now with the case having been sent back for each row. You know just walk away with lock away from it, by the way. I can't help it that one would think that New York City is a with the attorneys office and the homicide detectives have enough serious Times to deal with, instead of making this life work, this thirty six will then thirty six year old poor african american guy and showing on who, by the way, is a very intelligent guy used. See that interview listen to him talk
he doesn't wine or he doesn't it make excuses or Sony understands what he did and so on for them to be making this into a car Soleil, is simply inexplicable. I imagine, the the judge that there was a three panel judge that heard the evidence of the new trial and a unanimously agreed. Well, that's good, is then vilified here in this. I should say we're both we did both bullets at okay misty. How can that be? Yes? So, let's get to this two it case because they, this is a fascinating case that I know that that I was not aware of, and so I'm pretty positive that
a lot of the audience won't be in. So this is a fascinating story, as I spoke with Donna beforehand, Dr Doctor, that what noted about this case was that it demonstrates. A lot of things that that are wrong with the judicial system, from malfeasance by the police, to false confessions, to an FBI, agents acting inappropriately, given the evidence that she was became aware of for for all of the elements of this. They were clearly demonstrates the sometimes miscarriage of justice that occurs in our courts. Let's get right to giving us a give me a background about the victim, Stephanie Ann Crow. Maybe you can start off with this Donna. Ok, I'd be happy to. This is from my first book of question murder. As you said, Dan Stephanie Crowe was twelve years old
lived with her family to a brother and an older brother, younger sister, her parents, their parents and and the grandma who was there getting cancer treatment in a suburb of San Diego. They were cared takers on a very rural property that was on a cul the sack and on the night of January 20th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight Stephanie was found the next morning, in her hallway of her bedroom, it's dead of stab wounds. She had been stabbed in her bed through her blanket her bed, clothes or sheets, blankets, comforter and she crawled, to the hallway for help and she died in the hallway they found her the next morning. So the police
immediately zeroed in on the brother, and he had two friends the brother. And this is reminiscent of the west. Memphis three was a kid who dressed in black and he drew dark things. He was fourteen, so they took the to the three boys and they said You know, we think you guys did this and for forty hours without the parents, knowledge without any of the permissions with at any lawyer in the room. These boys were brutally questioned until they confess two of the three confessed, and this is a case by the way that they teach in law school and so as the boys were going to try, when they were juvenile hall for a while waiting that one of the defense attorney said, wait a minute. Look at this.
Clothing from a homeless guy who was found that night and he has blood drops on it and they match Stephanie. How did that happen? So all just attention star going to a man they Richard Raymond to it, who is now forty four, so he was in his 20s. I guess then,. And he was a Charles Manson. Look like that. That grew up in that area and was somebody was seen in that cold effect at night screaming at the top of his lungs for an old girlfriend who turns out look just like Stephanie and he was breaking into people's houses. One and found him in his living room, and he said where Stephanie I want to kill her and if people kept calling the police and saying there's this weird looney, who seems to
be on drugs screaming for someone come and help us and a cop came out, saw nothing but saw the crow family, laundry room, door, clothes and then thought well. I could check it out or I could go to dinner I'll, go to dinner, so The cops knew who this guy was in, so they picked him up the next day and said what was that you and he said no? No, no. They should give us your close anyway they gave him new clothes, and so they tested those clothes found her blood on it. But the cops said: oh he's too discombobulated. He couldn't have done this he's a meth head. He's a drug addict forget it well, there was a trial of this guy. And in two thousand and four he was convicted and and then there was a lasted from the families of the three boys and doctor wet can explain what he did: in that and how he was involved in that
there was a lawsuit that ended up paying the families the crow family. Seven point: two: five million and one of the other boys four point million four million and everyone thought everything is great. You know now. Finally, justice is righted this guy's in jail, because you know what it turned out that he was. He had a long history. Of of attacking women in attacking other people with a knife and he pulled in one case he pulled. Clothing over a guys head and stabbed him through the clothing. So it was just obvious. This guy was the person who did, and and yet there was a trial this year he got through the project innocence project of California. They gave him a new trial based on. I don't understand,
and what it was ridiculous, why they gave it to him, but they overturned his conviction and then they a new trial and he was acquitted, The reason he was acquitted is because, in the original trial, which went on for months and months and had hundreds of witnesses, the jury got the full picture of who he was and what the crime was about in the new trial. They thought now who needs witnesses. Look at this guys are crazy over and get to know these crazy head, and yet they clean his defense attorney cleaned. But we look like a young preppy. He looked innocent and scared, and they not brain in any of the witnesses, including doctor wecht, and they We just short change the jury, so the jury had no choice but to let him go 'cause. The evidence was not presented, so I will shut up now. Like doctor wet talk about them.
Sure of the injuries that he saw in his part in this. Well, let me go back to the charges brought against the boys Donna has explained that they quite clearly but It features a little bit of emphasis is again I'm always thinking of the average a person on the street the five day on average it could be a Phd nuclear physicist. I have a mental insult anybody number that people would cognizant of the law and more specifically, who do not know about pressures, are pies and prejudice and police tactics. They can get away with anything. People I think. Oh, you know, there's justice and so on and the other thing that people think is that man, if I didn't, kill anybody I didn't commit. Any crime is no way in the world. You ever going to get me to miss something go forty hours with little or no sleep. You are a forty
eighteen year old boys and one of the other boys that maybe have two boys for fifteen am, but you have no lawyer, you have no parent you're being interrogated and then- and this is a matter of record and then if they were told, look as you just saw was very happy and you have no criminal record not going to be so bad. You go to jail man, you know what happens to young boys, like you, in jail the rate every single day, you're in jail, want people to think about this and so on, and they don't and the promises and where the insurances are that's the way the game is played and it is permissible. It is permissible. I I want to emphasize that people do understand how how rotten the game is. So the the second point I want to make is advantages jump into, is a trial of two it when she did not mention. Is that the sand
Diego at Sardi's district attorney police, have all refused to budge. Is it required the ends of the attorney general of the State of California to intercede and to order that the charges be dropped against the boys and then because of the excellent work done by one of the women attorneys who was appointed. My court appointed to represent one of the boys, the work that she did and I'm covering the existence of this guy to and so on. So I people, I understand that. That's how then it came to be the travel to it I was involved, later in the lawsuit to which Donna referred in families family's, suit against them to San Diego authorities, going back against them for false imprisonment, etc? That is what led to the huge amounts of.
That would paid- and I believe it quite properly so to the a couple of the boys, but the third voice for what had been done to them and and the spice yet, and one of the things are you forgot to mention too correct me if I'm on two judges at two different times formally and officially from the bench ruled and stated for the record that these boys are innocent and did not any crime that is a matter of official adjudication and by two judges and and yet the basis, or the jurors jurors, coming to a can. Illusion in this re simply concluded second trial of a couple of months, we'll go. Obviously the this was not only a have them do it, but
You know that jury think they were back there there's no way they were going to let him walk and in their mind they knew quotation, they knew. Who did it and who did it the three boys so that jury is the second jury from Hell, as I put it or from a distant planet the first one. Having been the KV, Casey Anthony case, that was the number one jury they will go down in history as a jury from a distant planted and this one goes down in my book as the second jury from a distant planet. That they sprayed all of this. Despite everything I've told you as a matter of record that this jury they and their consummate ultimate wisdom there Great sagacity. Our missions decided that too, it is mister enter and the three boys, although you know that's, not part of the verdict, of course like that. Obviously
was the basis for their reasoning, otherwise, there's no way in the world. It would have come back in with a vote of acquittal. So this is a monster K. My involvement had to do with the stab wounds, the location of the body and those kinds of specific forensic pathology aspects which year had not been properly out with and and which had to be explained two of the the jury, and that was accomplished. There's been a ref. The FBI, and you should know that one of the top FBI, agents and Donna can elucidate on this payment and lambasted the one, one FBI agent, who have gone along with the cops and who is still sticking with them at 2v scenario involving the three boys. By the way Donna was the basis for the
All the radio court in California said that the trial judge had not afforded the defense The appropriate opportunity to get into that whole business with the FBI agents. The disparity disagree between them and did not allow the testimony to come forward from the woman FBI agent. That's my understanding, but that's a technicality. The point is that the there they came to be the re trial and and the the vision that I referred to is what emanated do their from. Well right. I you know little using, which is the has. The body
We make clear in our art books all the time the body talk to someone who knows what he's looking at like doctor, where two has fifty six thousand cases. He knows what he's seen and in Stephanie's case you can look at the stab wounds and determine what the a high degree of probability, what kind of a nice was used on her well, the murder weapon was never found, but one of the boys happen to have a best defense brand knife and it did not match the wounds in Stephanie so that there's that and and then just about after I take you. I don't know in Canada, but in America there's a show on CBS called criminal minds about profiling, a division of Behavioral Analysis unit of the FBI, which is the
leader of the elite. There, the brainiacs, who look into victim model, G and who is likely to have committed such a crime. It's just a great show, it's probably in its fifth season now the person who held, who headed that you It was a woman named Mary, Ellen O'Toole, now retired she for some reason, guy involved in the civil case, and if you see criminal minds, they never touch civil cases because they're always trying to yeah put a criminal behind bars. That's why it's called that she got involved in the boys. Did this and she was going to help. This is the cream, the symbol, okay, when she testified say no, the boys did this Richard too. It was too discombobulated to do it well.
There? Is another FBI agent who retired from that unit? Name: Gregg Mccrary he's just a wonderful guy and has twenty six years of experience and he looked into this and said: well, wait a minute. How can you ignore this guy's previous? How can you fact that he has a habit of doing this kind of stabbing in this kind of demented victimology plus he was looking. He looked through Stephanie's window as she was going to bed it it. He thought that was the girl he was looking for and threatening to kill, plus two days after the event, he was on a bus and sought a twelve thirteen year old girl and said, are you Stephanie? Are you excuse me Tracy his girlfriend 'cause? I want to kill you and plus he's so canny, this guy that when he was awaiting trial, he the to it not the FBI agent. He he slipped out of his
handcuffs by putting mayonnaise from the sandwich on his hand on his wrist slipped out of his handcuffs hopped on the bus and was- town for several hours before they found him. So he turns on the crazy when he has to, but it's not there all him he's. He is a drug addict and he has mental issues, but he Also knows how you know I had a: we had a game, the system, so the what you would think they. This became a battle between the two. Two FBI, profilers Ann our way and they were going to re try. I called this did to the attorney who was going to prosecute in Sacramento, which is our state,
capital and, I said hey. I want you to know about our book. Let me send you our book and show you the work that doctor elected on this and he is willing to come back and testify for you he's in he's on the other coast to see you how to fly a man, but he won't charge you because he feels so strongly about this case. And Gregg Mccrary, who also felt strongly about it, also called and said, I'm available to testify. I won't charge you you just pay for my airfare, because I want to see that this guy stays behind J, prison, and they didn't call either of them, and they basically told me, How well do we know what we're doing with this case, and I said you know I This is obvious, but do you have you found the guy that he stabbed before that he put in the hospital that
you know several years ago, and they said well, you know it's it's a homeless guy. We don't know where he is, I said, but he went to the hospital. There was a police report. You know who is family is how can you not this guy and say this is the same and there the attorney basically told me Don't worry. Lady will take care of our prosecution. Well, now the killer is walking the streets or he soon will be when he gets out of parole today, and not only that he can sue the state of California for wrongful imprisonment and make up to three one thousand dollars in doing so incredible. Let me ask one question here: because you've that you pointed this out and to me a lot of that evidence that you provided is not going to be that compelling compared to the argument that you make that O'Toole. Ignored the blood evidence, meaning Stephanie crows blood,
on his clothing. Now I don't know how you get around explaining that that's a pretty possible an incredible explanation. They are the way they said there is is excellent point however, question obviously ad picture. It was then that it just got contaminated. That somehow it two words too shirt. What is being photographed at the crime lab or whatever somehow somehow blood from Stephanie Crowe, which is then, according to the the the theory and remember keep in mind that just do it wasn't there to it, had nothing to do with it. How is definitely crows blood gets onto to it
shirt to contamination? I can understand contamination. We all. Can you make it be a criminalist to understand that if you got people working in the same people in the laboratory how crows blood gets onto too, it's t shirt, that's an answer and address yeah, I'm sure well, so so I I can't give you an answer because I can also his pocket, so they photographed the contents of his pockets before they took them before they said. Ok, you can take good stuff back, they didn't fingerprint the contents, but they were knickknacks taken from the crow home. Yes and other things that are consistent with what she would have in her home, a particular type of specific type of gum. I believe in a in a
Taco BAR sold some some really good circumstantial evidence that corroborates a lot of other evidence so yeah, certainly now now the thing is now you think. The thing is, is that you put this blame on Now I still don't understand why, in appeal, the courts felt that, because the defense didn't have the right to, I don't understand- and I think the audience won't understand this, so maybe you can further explain how it came to be the right of the perpetrator the killer, to have the cross examination of the FBI agents, and that was important. At least it seemed in the decision, so explain a little bit more about how that worked. In terms of you say, the disparity between the conclusions between the two FBI Agents- and you said, O'Toole
had concluded. That was an insider job and of course it had been excluded to it because he said Disorganized discombobulated, but then. As an alternative said but yeah. But this is an inside job which clearly pointed to the three boys- more about the issue, she I wrote that into a report that she filed in court, Greg Mccrary, read that report and hit the the ceiling saying this is a civil case. What is she doing here and he wrote a letter to his call Briggs and there, with some kind. Have a social ation of former profilers, an FBI agent. So he wrote a letter and said I'm I want you to know what happened here and she found
out about the letter, and she was furious that he wrote a nasty letter about her and her opinion and that it was on that basis that they got the retrial so that they could call them both again and let the jury I hear both sides and you know who they called neither of them The whole reason for doing the retrial was ignored above way down. You know I forgot to mention something else. That is absolutely if it weren't such a. It would be something I'm smiling, as I say this, the two uh other boys. Friends of Stephanie's brother lived, you ready for this miles away near one of them drives or drove a car in order to get there in that limited time period in the middle of the night. They would have
that to have walked miles down to the crow home run in committed a murder. What back and the next morning- and this is testified to not by the boys but by the teachers at the school. The teacher the boys at a significant examination and the first sing in the morning and both of them got a like a perfect score. And they or whatever they creamed of the test. So they He did all of this In the middle of the night watch down there at committing the murder walking back studying for the teacher said: there's no way that they could have a perform, and as they did on that test without some serious studying. This is testimony on the record from one of the teachers not present the trial, but as part of the overall background, so I just wanted to throw the
and also how the police reached out for these three boys now the The injustice here is that the killer walks free, but also that of the three kids, were subjected and the one Michael believe or maybe was Aaron or Joshuah, I'm not sure which, which one of them you said that it suffered a nervous breakdown in this forty hours. A couple of them. You know just really broke down in the questioning yeah, how Big women's new jury in lieu of giving them witness, is like doctor, wet and uh, and the FBI, agents and other forensic. What the jury had to do was watched. The hours of a taped confessions, so that the jury watched and you know they saw it brutality and- and the jurors has said that just awful. I can't believe they did that, but who else did? Who else you blame a defense attorney
to say MIKE. I didn't do it because someone else did it. We know who that was. But the thing is that you know that what you should do demonstrate in and again I'm going to get this so that the audience understands this is how I mean false confessions- not everyone understands and when you hear all you know I'm recanting MIKE. Fashion. There's a lot of people to do that serial killers. Do it a lot of people have done this, but we can see an impressionable you and then again with no legal representation, not their parents, they're, not any legal counsel there and then planting id yes, you do a good job of telling how they actually do this by saying, listen, you're going to get raped, but we can put you in special city. Now, as long as this information- and you must have done it- be as we give you this test in this test is infallible in failed, so you know but then they also like to then they also lie. They tell this is
another game that is played in in done in the United States with with two or more people involved. They are permitted to do this by the way they are permitted league to do this to say to at a that is b as already test and he's dumping it on all Mister eight, and so you better tell us that sorry to save your neck baby or we're going up in Mister B's walking out of here free or maybe one year. Ok, so just you know, I just want people to understand what do you think that site Palazhi of all? That is you think these are noble courageous, it people you know and most of these people. Are usually well they're, not to brilliant people. And they're, not mature adults, as in this case, quite often such is so anybody is having a difficult time, understanding it going talk to a forensic psychologist or psychiatrist
He or she will explain it to you mighty fast as to how the human mind works and how the emotions and and concerns begin to take over You will confess to anything baby, just let me get out of here. Let me get home and it'll all be over, and I use only the only thing I wanna go to sleep I want to. I just to get into my bed. I want get something to eat, and so it will be over and done with it, it It's not hard to to achieve this. But when you have these kinds of tactics at play, let me ask to quash because I'm confused on this, and I think it's important to explain the story. You say that Treadwell and the other boy, live miles away was in implausible that they could have come and assisted him. What was the basis again evidence they needed to have some evidence, but What kind of evidence did they have other than the fourteen year?
didn't show the level of remorse as the other Members of the family went due to the murder, given the murder itself. What included these boys other than the one like swords and knives, but how do they how do they make this money like the swords and knives had this best defense? not aware that that's a that's a commercial name, explain that best these right, that's the brand. They are just as as a brand name right, you know, but how does that leave the bodies in Goldsboro Debt and have, under his under his mattress dandelions asking gonna dance asking: how did the police come to these two other boys initially in the first place. Well because they they found a. I guess he was saying I was talking my friends on the phone, and so they they got search where they say
found under one of the boys. Mattress is that knife and they went out hard, the murder weapon. They took the knife to the lab. They took it apart. They found no blood, no dna, nothing from Stephanie on it and you'd, think that well, that's the end of that, but no that was the again yeah another part of the answer them to your question is yes. I forgot this God. I believe I'm write a check when I you read recently, I was reminded Dan what the police concluded, they and their investigators. The and you wanted- was that based upon the way in which the overlying clothes or blankets. I had been penetrate repeatedly, etc. And the woman is infected so on the the girl that it would have required two people
one would have had to have whole one one would have had to have held that the blanket or quilt in place, while the other did the stabbing. So that's how they reached alright for a nice looking person and then the third person was considered to be a look out to make sure that this is a note Attention was brought to the to the pair in the adjacent to bedroom and so on, so that that still does, with their scenario if all right, incredible now now. The other thing that I don't understand fully- and I think the audience might be questioning this too- we have this defense attorney that notices blood on the on the clothing of someone that has been looked at during now, during this murder investigation but, of course, is not has been excluded as a suspect because they say he couldn't have done this. How does one two hours that,
yeah. I don't know how the defense attorney depends. The the the explain to us the process where the defense attorney sees something that someone else doesn't see or well. Well, I don't understand how I? Would blood drops on a red shirt, so they don't even bother testing it. They didn't see it all that I think, would dance asking how do they come to to it and how do they? my recollection- is that the defense attorney and she was a darn good attorney with her extensive investigation, came to LA about this man who was going around, as Donna has explained in the neighborhood and so on. She then attract him. He had been picked up for something totally unrelated she Van pursued it and got into the the analysis, examination investigation of
this guy. She not knowing anything about him at that point, but began to here's this guy, that was in neighborhood doing. Madonna, explained and so on, and then she, he goes and she follows through and in her follow up. She learns about his clothing and she learns about blood ST this shirt. She has a shirt submitted to her on the an eight specialist who identifies Stephanie crows blood on the shirt that was done by an outside dna specialist. So the police didn't see is a blood or they didn't really saw the blood, but they never tested it wow. They never doubted it. Yeah and their motive and in the loose motive, is that Michael was jealous of his sis you're right, yeah
yeah, how on earth these other boys got involved wow. Well, that's why the families have eleven million dollars today, but I'm sure they, would all rather have that Stephanie back. You know she was truly the one lost in the shuffle what is the killer behind bars yeah right, right and uh at least you're right down. That's a good way, at least the killer behind bars. Can you just am tried to imagine how that family feels the girl is gone. This love beautiful twelve year old girl and the killer is out free and the blame, although no longer officially anything to uh worry about, but the blame is out there among friends, acquaintances
community wherever they may be, that you know what those boys really did it and got away with it. Can you imagine it's a it's a a triple whammy that they have to live with for the rest of their lives. You can take money and throw it into the ocean money. Money does not take care of those things. Well, absolutely an it's just a miscarriage justice in a fine example of of of the story as well. Is that very fact: how can they get a false confession and how zealous are prosecutors? And then some you say didn't present the case at all in the in the in the next trial? There were over confident for, for no reason is given that the miscarriage of justice in these innocent people and their their trauma, traumatic of experiences in the court system? They still didn't feel compelled to you know, grab justice by the The horns here in your eyes is right: I'm really because you're not because it was new,
or a an excellent to every part of the Asian? Like yes, Greg Mccurry, I mean it could have been there, the Jones and Smith Service in a in could this, but you have a forensic pathologist and a top FBI agents who have work, the case who have examined it, who are prepared to testify at no cost thousands of there airfare, whatever the hell it would be and so on, and you don't call upon to experts like that in this kind of a case is it? Is it matter legal malpractice is what it is, is Yandle our product just like a doctor committing medical malpractice. This was legal malpractice that resulted in this abomination. And you it'll give to the taxpayer in in this budget crunch kind of society that an economy that was that
The clown will certainly have the right to be able to sue the state and be able to recover. Three hundred thousand dollars is beyond the slap in the face to family, especially but every taxpayer that invest so much in this judicial system to see this miss care, of justice from bottom on up The the paradox the iron He is talking about the taxpayers that very likely a key reason that the prosecution did not reach out and handle this case. Was because they were concerned about money, their budget. I. I don't know that, but I would be willing to say: I don't think they want. This guy to go free, nobody's thinking or suggesting that now as stupid and ignorant. So you say well. Why? Why? Because one is not a pointed, they were cocky and complacent
and you know what the hell is- slam dunk and two were not going to spend any time, effort and money and let's get it over with, and this is the result well incredible story Richard to it. Now we are running out of time, but we, if you can hang around a little bit, let's explore the other book from courtroom. From one another one you'll have enrolled I'll have to leave in a short while, because I have an incoming call from attorneys interesting Lee from California to on a big deposition I'm doing tomorrow on a police, related death, case mate, will talk about another time about police and choke old tasers in the whole the damage, so I apologize, but I, promise them that I would be available, but I'm Donna with the would be loved it, and I
I do apologize to you then I want to make it wants you to know that. I believe me if I could change it, but I can't because it's all booked, but I want to thank you if I may, just take. My last minute here is so much for your courtesy and graciousness in having this on and permitting us to talk or know that Donna, and I loquacious and put it in a benign general fashion. I can think of other other descriptive words that might be more to have, but thank you then thank you very much so I'll show say goodnight to you and on and to all your listeners, and I'm sure Donna will regale you with some other wonderful up stories in cases that that we've written about and so on so fat. You very much your daughter, nice being with you again. Thank you. Thank you thank
doctor wecht, and it was been my pleasure in it like usual, it is my pleasure to have you on the program size. I was four years ago. I look forward to the next time. Thanks thanks. Thank you very much one. And then there was one yes, yes so thank you for remaining on the line here, so we can go a little bit longer and because we haven't touched on Michael Jackson and well. I really didn't know much about this story. I didn't follow. It too much other than what Everybody else thinks they know about the doctor and his involvement, but we do no know the story of dark. Dr Cyril Wecht involvement in this and your involvement in this as well. In terms of just doing the in. The gate work so from crime scene to court room. This is the book that this occurs in Michael Jackson, chapter if I'm correct.
Right, and so, let's talk about also has Kate Casey Anthony in it. We mentioned that earlier and and some other cases there are like a five cases in that one and Casey Anthony is a definite you. We both had a lot to do with that case, as well, but Michael Jackson, as in my daytime job. I am a freelance investigative journalist for the american tabloids so The word Michael Jackson has been in my vocabulary since, basically, since he his haircut on fire in one thousand nine hundred and eighty four, when we first started covering him, and that was when he first started becoming addicted to drugs everyone knew it So I had worked on here with all the other colleagues there. Just everything that kind,
came up in the news I was involved with in some way in his trial for child. My station. Including the bubbles, the Chimp chapter in his sleeping in the oxygen chamber that mean the whole Jackson episode his whole life. Style which we get into in in our book. A lot. We it's not just about how we Sorry, it's lives. It's just something that a writer would fiction writer would make up. Yeah absolutely now tell us about the last when I did. Introduction was talk about this impending concert that everyone was looking forward to. In fact, there was the rehearsal concert, though eventually released into fans worldwide, and I have a copy of that and it's incredible so do
World was anticipating this magnificent concert series with Michael Jackson, tell us about his health and the kind of care city was: he was under. He was with the care of Dr Conrad Murray, but he's only been with them short period of time. So tell us about this sort of this relationship and What was Michael's state of health at that time? Well Michael, had been in failing health for a long time. And if you look at that concert footage, no, Just how, in the course of a song, his costumes change, because it's edited by a wonderful team of magicians that use a lot of footage from different rehearsals put 'em together too,
cover up when he had to stop when he had to take a breath when he couldn't go on. You know they just they frankensteined. This concert footage with little bits from here little bit from their coverage. Other musicians, so he could barely get through a song I know that, because I know some of the people who were involved in the making of didn't in capturing his performance during that time. The the the main thing to know about Michael Jackson is he was so broke? He had made a lot of money in his life, but boy did he spend that he not not just on You know lawyers to get him out of and pay off two young boys which there were a lot, but also in his lifestyle. I we you evolve that Martin Bashir thing where he goes to learn.
No worries in LAS Vegas and he goes into a story since I want wonder that one is that why painting six million so I put it on my credit card and then what you don't find out is no. His credit card was turned down. You know because he, but that was his thing, just spending spending spending. He had these three children and he would bring them to. Different parts of the world from the Bahrain to Ireland, not because he wanted to protect the children or expose them to other worlds, but because The doctors here were clamping down on how much drugs that he was able to get at any one time and he, along with Anna Nicole and many other people who died we have drug addiction, had any number of phony names that he would get prescriptions filled.
And you know even you can only play that game for so long, so he was always searching for the next place to go where he could get doctors. Who would be. Enamored with his notoriety and give him all sorts of prescription drugs wow now, what what did he need the prescription drugs for or at least that was the rationale for them. What was the basis for needing all these painkillers Well, he he had trouble sleeping. He was also in a lot of pain, because you know there were fears cool things going on with him, and people thought that he had a lupus at one point he did not, but he had. Some physical woes He wasn't that healthy, a guy, but his real problem was that he was a dick painkillers killers and when you're addicted, you just can't, say: okay, I'm going to go
cold, Turkey, I'm not going to do that. He had been his fam. We head on several occasions taken amiss right and you no credit interventions that he just wouldn't go for any of it. And if you cross someone, like him or Anna Nicole Smith. They will just act you out of their life, so the only people that really could talk to him. His mother Diane. Oprah and people who We're really really- and you know above him in the present who we really respected and when all those people try to talk to him, he still said no lie. Lisa Marie Pressley try to convince him to go straight. He dumped her, so he had very few people who would who would it not challenge him, but his last in his last several months. The problem was sleep.
And he couldn't have a deep sleep and part of that was because he was on the third floor. This may mansion in Beverly Hills he insisted on keeping it almost a hundred degrees. He insists his room his portion of the mansion. He would only be able to sleep if the television was on an music tracks were playing at the same time and He had a computer, a laptop in his bed that played cartoons. He needed this kind of audio stimulation and VIN little stimulation and he had he drank something like fifteen, red bulls a day, so course you know that's going to keep you from sleeping and he he couldn't get a good nights sleep, but his dog cuz he get. You know he had tons of plastic surgery over the years his doctors notice.
He was having plastic surgery. They would give him propofol, which put him in it's a diprivan is the name of the drug. Football is the brand name and it's an injectable say thing that you put in an ivy and it puts you into a former, like condition and as soon as it is clear from your system, which is very quick pick a little couple inch long container of it that you would put it in, put into an ivy last fifteen minutes. So you know once you're finished, with that you come right awake, so he wanted that coma like state, which is not, which is not really sleep. It's not rem, sleep, it's not healthy sleep, but he capital number of doctors into doing that. So then he
go to London because he a financial adviser advisers, say you have to do these concerts. You know this is your letter. This is your last chance. This is it an If you don't? If you do these concerts, you reverse all the problems. You'll stop the central bleeding and you only have to do ten shows. That's all so he thought well, I could do ten shows you know I'll. Do him every couple days all in the same location in london- and I can get myself up for that at. And they said well, listen as long as you're doing ten, how about fifty and then, as as you do in fifty how about it? This is kicking off a world tour and he was so so where of it he said: okay, finally signed all the papers, so this is what kicked in and then they start rehearsing with him and realize this guy can't make it through a song, let alone a night of little cone.
Ten nights, let alone fifty, let alone a world tour. He really isn't able he's frail he's lost his voice to a certain extent. He just doesn't have the power to dance if you think he's going to be moonwalking like he did when he was at his prime guess again, it would have been very You two to win. Britney spears opened the what was gram eight a maze that time after she had gotten out of rehab and was still there you know very, very troubled, very troubling performance where she basically stood and looked at the camera and couldn't dance yes pros on camera. It was the opening of the show, that's what that's what the audience would have seen. That's what the people who were shooting the footage saw wind, and then they went to Aeg the people who were financing. This
the whole series of emails went by and they said what are we going to so he's out of his. You know he's out of it he's well, we've already committed to the dates make it happen. Make meat have given my hamburger. So you know they were well aware that he was a problem and yet nobody said you know he he could die. Now this doctor that he had I there it was he's a cardiologist was he was he qualified to be able to prescribe what he did prescribe? well? Doctor Murray was I I write a lot about his background to he's just yet you you almost have to just read it, because it's so thick with intrigue about who this guy is, he he did and he had patients who
forward during the trial say: oh my god, I he saved my life and he's wonderful guy. He had that side of him. He was a cardiologist in three states. Nevada, Texas and California. He was born in Trinidad. So he has this kind of lilting tropical voice, interesting voice, he's a huge guy He has something like seven children or is it nine? I forget from mostly different women wasn't able to pay his child support was being sued and wages were attached and and his you know he was in trouble plus he had a an addiction himself to strippers. So when my was Michael made. Sure that part of his deal was Aeg was that they
hey a hundred grand a month to a doctor of his choosing who would travel with him and be at his side right outside. You know. When he's on stage, he could look over to the side and CD Demery there with oxygen if he needed it and Doctor Murray would be his second skin just right outside the audience view he be there and Doctor Murray said I will be there I'll, be your your best friend I'll, be there. But what Michael Jackson really wanted was propofol So Murray, said what I don't even know, what that is. He figured it out but that's very dangerous how about this? Instead, let me detox you well, Michael, is it put it up with any of that? The paperwork was signed by Aeg, but not by Michael Jackson. So Doctor Murray worked for something like
six weeks without a penny, he never did make a cent from any of this he was supposed to, but they know Michael never got around to sign the paperwork, so they never paid him Ann. He ended up ordering so much proper fold because, as I described it's in little vials about two three inches about three or four inches long. Each of them lasts fifteen minutes Michael wanted him to put in the. Ivy and sit at my bedside and Please get my eight hours, so you add up the you know. How many miles is that per night you times says the tour, so he had to get Dr Murray How had to get his hands on a boat load of propofol, which is not easy, so he, basically let people in the pharmaceutical world think that he was opening a pharmacy
And he took possession of them at his apartment, which was some near where Michael's mansion was so. He was gay, all this stuff, which was unheard of. So and there were also a lot of other drugs in Michael System, he died. He he couldn't tell you if you was women are going. His veins had all collapsed. It was very hard to find a place to inject him that wasn't collapsed from way too many injections and he was just in pathetic state. Well, now, we've heard about your involvement. What is doctor wax involvement in Michael Jackson case itself? Why Well, there were many steps, it's of this family and the family- we had a lot of Michael n
having three autopsies, the one that the LA county, the coroner did was the main one and then the family, different factions of the family wanted their own autopsy done. They wanted to take hair samples they wanted two. It became really interesting as to one of the points in the trial was who used, who had his fingerprints on the vial. Of propofol and the attorney I mean the doctor said not me. I left to make ' phone call to a stripper by the way and I was out of the room and Michael Jackson, woke up, saw that I wasn't there, so he himself that final injection, so with you know all sorts of things. Required another look at his
body. Another look at his fingerprints, another taking palm print samples, hair samples, So, if you remember there was a delay from when he died on June 25th, two thousand and nine two when he was buried and even then there were samples still in reserved that they had to go back and look at at some point. Somebody an attorney representing Joe Jackson, who is the Father uh, asked doctor where to take a look at all of this and to see, if you know they who can we sued here, can we sue AG could can we see to Doctor Murray. Is this all kosher and doctor Wecht said? Are you kidding? This is not kosher there's, nothing, that's reasonable with anything Doug. Aburi did he should lose his license in every state, and he
you go to jail? This is nothing short but meg of negligence and there's not a homicide manslaughter, so that was his involvement and- and he never did testified 'cause that case kind of got thrown out or I don't know what happened with it. It just didn't ever get to court, but you know that's kind of par for the course in that family. Sometimes saber rattle and you know hope that they can get up Michael, was paying his whole family their expenses for everything, so everybody wanted to keep that gravy train going and became clear that his state was being ham told by people who weren't going to play that game and quickly put it into the black black ink rather than red.
You know in clamp down on all the kind of crazy. Expensive expenses of taking care of. This enormous family, you know it what kind of righted itself so doctor wecht ended up, not testifying, and there was no court action for his part on it. Now. Why did you feel because you been covering the Michael Jackson case. But what did you really what as a conclusion. What to do? What did you see from that trial that was most disturbing or the lack of trial? I should say Well, there was a trial of Doctor Murray, an I thought that was very interesting because they, which was televised, I believe, I
I don't remember, I didn't go to the trial. It was one of the few that I didn't actually attend in 'cause it was just a zoo, but I watched enough coverage on television and reporters who were in the in the room- and I read everything on the case and in fact I waited until that trial was finished before I finish the book same with Casey Anthony, which was going on kind of at the same time, those writing that portion of it so it it's up to the minute. The only thing that's happened in the interim is that Murray did get sentence to four year He served our jails here, overcrowded he served. I think too and a half years he was paroled and now he he has an attorney to try to get
at at the end of peel and a re trial. If necessary, he wants his case overturned, sold that he can get back. His his medical license is a practice medicine again and because he's so has all these children to support. So I think he said going to prevail on that, and, if He had never met Michael Jackson. Would he have been an adequate doctor? The court said yes, and he probably would have he he just. He was up against someone who he could say no to an he. He was too economically tide to this purse. In to walk away. So that was a huge problem. Would whatever happened to Murray again. Well, I don't think so, but you know
Let's not make him a doctor and see yeah. Absolutely so, tell us about the other chapters in crime from crime scene to courtroom. The other child we had a drew Peterson in there well, first of all, Casey Anthony was just you know, one of those that people just can't cannot get enough of that case. Andrew Peterson was, a guy who was a Swat team member in a suburb of Chicago, a real arogant kind of cocky guy, Who's third wife was found in a bathtub and doctor work had a lot to do with this one. She was found, drowned in the bathtub and they buried her because he can be kind of control the coroner's inquest at the time. This goes back some years and they basically said that you know it's true come on. We wouldn't do anything. Yes, she had bruises, but you know she was on. She was kind of a
mess and she bumped into stuff, and- and you know it's a sad drowning and there are kids, so let drew raise those kids and and that's it, so nothing ever happened with that. Her name is Kathleen Savio and then his fourth wife went missing and she was a young, a cupcake and and she just says: she's never been seeing again and her family and law enforcement started saying wait a minute happen to her, and since we were wondering what about otherwise, because they start talking to the first two wives and say hey. This guy has trouble with women and very well he's arrogant, he's going on dating shows on the radio he's on talking to her I'll on tv and he's just using I know that his notoriety as a lady killer, accused lady killer to him
benefit to land more babes. So anyway it it covers that case and he was convicted as they exude wife number three and found yes, she had been murdered and you know this is. If anything ever happened with wife, four and they recover her bones. That'll be interesting, drew of course says that she took cough with you, know another guy and of course, there's no evidence of that, but it's kind of those you know he just shut his mouth. Probably wouldn't have been in the trouble he ended up in. And uh. You know they're they're, just all of our cases are just really in there's also in in book number two. There is a case about Brian Jones, who was the a
A guitarist for the rolling stones right, he drowned in. I think one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven and a swimming pool in England and the question is: was he murdered or was he was in an accident or, and in between so we get into all of that talk directly is looked at all the evidence and- and I think that's a very surprising case, what the conclusions are in that very interesting and all all the possible suspects. I get to all of those 'cause. I write the backgrounds of the stuff and then doctor Wecht Anna, places. The medical and legal issues and then also other cases. You also cover the hey Savannah, Nicole Smith, as well right and her son, he was stuck to was first brought into this
boyfriend slash lawyer who said hey that you know we're in Nassau. Can you come and look at the autopsy attend the autopsy of her son, because you you never did drugs, we don't know what happened and So the World Press was down there because Anna had given birth two three days before to her daughter and she was still in the hospital suffering and then her son comes to visit and he winds up dead and he was two years old, so doctor wecht goes to Nassau, does helps with the autopsy. And it turns out yes, and maybe you don't think your son did drugs, but you know what pharmaceuticals prescription drugs were all through that kid system and that step means he's dry
three months later, Anna Nicole herself died and Doctor Wiki consulted on that case, and had a lot to say about the official investigation and We then our book, which really looked at her medical and legal hair, ended up getting two doctors and the attorney looked at by the California boards of medicine and law and who said, maybe they shouldn't be practicing law in medicine? and they were all arrested, two graham we're, let's go in the there's some there. There was a case of a conviction that stood up on the psychiatrist and again it's these doctors who gets too close to the patients who are wealthy and fun and powerful,
bring you to great premieres and help you with your fundraising for your charities and blah blah blah, and they just get enamored they get. You know they lose their sense of of borders and propriety the chest they just do so that so that's that's a double case. Some very interesting. In our current book final exams. There's a case that everybody in America followed very closely and because should I care a lot about child sexual assaults, every one of our books has one of those kinds of cases in it and final exams has the case of Jessica Lunsford
who was a nine year old in Florida who was taken from her bed and you know killed by a predator and it covers the investigation and the aftermath about who was looked at by cops again, cops who didn't do things right and and then what happened in the media to the Father, who went from being a suffering dad? Who didn't ask to be part of this? To me? Your you know champagne and cigars and creative station that he used to fatten his own wallet and buy fancy cars and bikes? And in I mean it kind of covers
the whole gamut. There yeah incredible, and so you have three co authored three books with doctor Wecht and that's from the question. A murder from crimes the core room and now final exams and last one book soon to be a prince on demand and that one is on planet Aaron dot com po Anetannrule D, dot com and your listeners Dan of all no Ann Rule and her amazing. Team who Anne has turned out more true crime, Book anybody I'm just in her I'm among her many admirers were very we're happy to be a part of her publishing team.
And our next book will also be for them, and it's on the Kennedy case, JFK and it's called fifty years of lies and doctor W has been on that case for fifty years. Actually, it'll be fifty years in September, because He like most of America thought world she would gov. Comments not lying about this. You know it's going to what they said. Lee Harvey Oswald did this where he got. The Warren Commission report, which came out in several months after almost a year after the assassination and he some other a steamed experts started. Mostly reviewing edit saying this does not make sense. This is insane and he has one of the loudest voices for
we're explaining the evidence and exposing the lies, and it's just permeated his tire career and He just is he's an amazing when this book is out would love to come on and talk about that, things that are in this book will just blow your mind? Well we're looking forward to that do you have any sort of estimated time that this might come when when you're ready? Well, writing it. I'm a you know a little more than a half way done and you know it covers fifty years. So we we get into it's a chronology, but it also sets the stage of who present, because not everybody has spent fifty years obsessing on this like he has and like I have, but you know it's a for young people
to know what happened. Who may not know anything about Kennedy may not know issues that were going on in America that led to his death and so there's a lot of his just basic history in there too, and very you know, the research shows is just but now Well, I have to say it's really amazing yeah, it's uh double story, that it's just bands, like you say fifty years, but also the the entire history has to be taken into consideration, because that's what it is. It's the one of the big these moments in the history of mankind. So yeah changer. I mean, as I was a kid and saw that You know and his accused assassin being killed, two days later, as a harm time. Anyone in the world saw you know it's film on television.
And you know that was just one of those things that you just don't forget. It's so all the characters you have to share the framework before you understand. Who are the suspects? Who are they? What are the motivations where the avenues go. So it's it's a really big book been wonderful for to us. Yes and then it's it's a testament to that. The queen of true crime, the biggest and most important- in true crime and rule, as endorsed incredible. True crime, real life, true crime tag, team of you and direct, and we have again You know handling one of the cases that doctor work happened to be involved with right from the beginning again
based on his outrage and his interests, but his outrage, basically as being a lawyer and a forensic pathologist being in the the eye of the storm of these important cases, especially when it comes to miscarriages of justice. So it's incredible. And our audience in myself especially will look forward to fifty years of lies I wanted to mention. Two. While I have this time, it's that audible has been the the new sponsor for the program and I wanted to just let our audience know that audible is the leading name in in audio downloadable, audio books and right now they have a. Thirty day free trial, where people can pick the book of their desire for over one hundred and fifty thousand titles and growing and enjoy the experience the unique experience of audible audiobooks. For those people that you might pardon me
u dot. Yes, thank. Thank you very yes, audible, dot, com, slash, true murder and tell him Dan sent you and, like guess, they have a thirty day free trial right now, and so you can pick book that you like and experience the audio books four. If you haven't tried them already, it's an experience that goes beyond the the ebook, the paperback book hardcover book the entire experience and for a lot of people, people that are necessary or they want to maximize their entertainment time or their visually impaired or they're on the road with two hands on the wheel. And they have mobile devices. They can max Miz their time commuting or just have a great experience having The finest narrators in the world read some of your favorite authors, books, to you at your own leisure. So, an again now, that's downloadable. It's very much like to eat
look in the publish on demand. It just gives more access to great authors, and their great works. So I want to urge people. Go to audible, dot com, slash true murder, an experience digital audio books today So thank you very much, and so I want to thank you very much Donna for coming on and with doctor wecht and recount I think these amazing stories and I'm sure we'll be talking to very soon and we love doing your show Dan and that you have this incredible sponsor now. Well, I could can't think of anyone who deserves that kind of record nothing more. You been doing this a while. You know the questions to ask the author I said we really love play name the game at your high level. So thank you. We
Thank you very much. Those are very, very kind words, and I I I love having yourself and doctor Don, because you guys are the real deal, the real crime fighters, the real serious. People that are involved and if you roll up your sleeves and get to work and there's a real! It's not just entertainment anymore. You guys are very, very involved in being important players in some of these cases and uh. We will in our audience, will see that from this next book that comes up- actually fifty years of lies, you'll see the importance of this very team that you and doctor wecht are bringing you experience and your passion to the forefront. Take us with the audiences of I have I get emails all the time from all over the world, and people really are want to be a particip. In some of these things to feel really involved, not just a bystander and listening to the stories, some of the stories,
that you're talking about where the passion comes through and that your involvement is very important, and I think that and another added element to the books that you offer you and doctor work. I want Thank you very much for coming on and talking about scene, the court, the courtroom from a question to murder and, of course, final exams. Thank you. Much Donna. Thank you. Dan. All the best have a good night, and I hope to talk to you soon. Good, alright, bye, bye.
And they're going to find out who they are without a all the more reason we come to West Virginia simple things like rolling hills, love in the forest, well worn campfires and will hold on to that feeling for as long as we can find your version, seven. This fall at WV to orgasm dot com, and I found from Geico Motorcycle? It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, please be the cheetah and learn your animal, isn't the cheetah but the far less appealing blobfish.
Come on to add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-06.