« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

GITCHIE GIRL-Phil Hamman

2016-04-06 | 🔗
A terrified voice cried out in the night."Who are you? What do you want?The sound of snapping twigs closed in on the five teenagers enjoying an evening around a glowing campfire at Gitchie Manitou State Park. The night of music and laughter had taken a dark turn. Evil loomed just beyond the tree line, and before the night was over, one of the Midwest’s most horrific mass murders had left its bloodstains spewed across the campsite. One managed to survive and would come to be known as the “Gitchie Girl.” Harrowing memories of the terrifying crime sent her spiraling out of control, and she grasped at every avenue to rebuild her life. Can one man, a rescue dog, and a glimmer of faith salvage a broken soul? This true story will touch your heart and leave you cheering that good can prevail over the depravity of mankind.Through extensive research, interviews, and personal insight, the authors bring a riveting look at the heinous crime that shook the Midwest in the early 1970s. Written from rare, inside interviews with the lone survivor, who broke nearly four decades of silence, this shocking yet moving story will not soon be forgotten. THE GITCHIE GIRL-The Survivor's Inside Story of the Mass Murders That Shocked the Heartland-Phil Hamman
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening, The sound of snagging snapping twigs closed in. On the five teenagers enjoy an evening around the glowing campfire at Kitschy, Manitou State Park, the
music and laughter had taken a dark turn. Evil loom just beyond the tree line and before the night was over, one of the Midwest. Most horrific mass murders had left its bloodstained spewed across the campsite. One managed to survive and would come to be known as the Gucci girl. Harrowing memories of the testifying crime, center, spiraling out of control- and she grasped at every avenue to rebuild her life. Can one man a rescue dog and a glimmer of faith salvage of console this true story. Will touch your heart and leave you cheering that is good can veil over the depravity of mankind? Through extension, extensively search, interviews and personal insight? The authors bring, a riveting look at the heinous crime that shook the midwest in the early 1970s
and from rare inside interviews with the lone survivor who broke really nearly four decades of sign. This shocking. Yet moving story will not soon be forgotten. The book to refute this evening is the get girl, the survivors in side story of the mass murders that shocked the heartland. With my special gas journalist and author Phil welcome to the program and thank you for agreeing this interview. Phil come how you doing Dan very good. Thank you for joining me on the Graham tonight, and I hope I didn't miss pronounce your last name. Phil Hamon kind like the Hammond Organ Hammond. There we go so Thank you very much for clarifying that. How Matt Hammond, Hammond. You got it! Thank you. Let's start off with set setting the stage for where this incredible
time occurs, and this is Sioux Falls SD, so tell us where Sioux Falls, SD isn't proximi! Do we talk about Iowa in this in this case in this story predominately. So let's talk about, Sioux falls South Dakota first, what's it like where it? Where is it located? Well Sioux falls. South Dakota is the largest city in the state of South Dakota Dan and it's low, even the very eastern southern part of South Dakota in it, but Sioux falls but right up, you know just a few miles away from the Iowa border- okay and get man. Two is a state park. Well, it's a state preserve. Now it's been, turn into a wildlife preserve, but at the time it was a state park and it's located about twelve miles. E of Sioux falls SD and Gitchi Manitou. I in fact when I was a kid, one up. I'm from Sioux falls South, I
start. Get you managed to you know all what the whole park was in the state of Iowa, but I found out during the research for this book that a small portion of it does land soft core so that's how close it is. Now this is also the land of, and they should not be Indians and and plays a of a quite a bit of predominant part in this story, as well. Tell us a little bit about the history of an initial Nabi Indy, send the reserve and that area Well, you know there are some indian burial mounds out there get you Manitou actually means great spirit. So are uh? this area in the Midwest. You know you have a lot of native american names and get you Manitou is native American for great Spirit and burial mount out. There is actually a very beautiful park, lot of pink I'll cry Dropping rocks. You know a lot of trails big Sioux River wind through there. What kind of a beautiful park, but you know now it's Citrus sinister background that
It's got a very heinous rep, cation. Now now, let's go back to now this crime version early, seven thousand and seventy three, but let's go back to Sandra Cheskey and describe her life with siblings. And it's very important, some of the things that do happen in her life and so will have to talk about that, because it really makes a big difference on the night. Question as well. So let's go back well like yeah this guy. He's a huge survivor throughout. So many different things were life the you know she. She does have a little native American in her. You know you know her mom and dad end up. The end stayed together. She was raised a pretty much in a single mom home three older brother she's is the youngest she actually. She would
born in the backseat of a car. I was trying to get to the hospital they had. A mixed driver when her one of the Labor and Sandra made her arrival in the back seat of a car and it's kind of an interesting story. In fact, out after the book came out, we didn't know that this bed, one of the lady contact her and said Sandra. I was actually in the backseat. I delivered you, I would say: girl, my my mother, was the driver and we got to. The rural hospital Utah been born. I wrapped in a towel and took you in by the time we get back home. You know, you know with the seats We looked like effort after giving birth back there, they were bloody. They took the seat out of the back seat of the car. They set it up and the barn in a nosey neighbor thought somebody had been murdered, so they call the sheriff who came and investigated and Xander. So Sandra made her arrival in the back seat of a car
Yes, some other things that happened her dance to it. There was a man in her mom's life that it really want the kids around who shipped off to a foster family. It real bad experience there, then we she did, come home. She was shipped off to a mission, a native american Boarding School and back in the days. It was a pretty harsh environment, you know, and she was considered two white by a lot of the native american kids, so she was discriminated again Justin bullied in uh, so she had pretty hard life and you know, and then, of course they get you Manitou Incident takes place in her life, so this all has had to overcome a lot, not just not to explain that to clarify the is not like her mother doesn't want her. It's we talk about the man in her life not really wanting her and that's how she ended up in foster home and that's how she ended up in this boarding houses. In school as well, but the thing was a g always implored to her mother and appeal to her mother and her mother would try to get her back
home, so eventually, is reunited with her mother Lola. Isn't she Yes and again, her mother was a good gal. You know how I can go and you know the always calling the shots in you know her Mother did always come back and take care of her and then but then, of course, she was a single mom, not making very much money, trying trying to raise four children and so was gone working a lot too, but Sandra always had a good relationship with her mother speaks the other mother and they're just circumstances of life. You know Dan's, as you know how it can go now What type of girl was she were talking about now will get closer to the this summer, for the incident in one thousand nine hundred and seventy three but Descr Xander in terms of for with her other playmates and other people at school, she is survived again, some
adverse situations already in her life and she's back with her mother and has a brother. Is a good relationship in her family. The Tell us where she's at in terms of sort of relationships with other people and sort of what time. Is it in her life that summer we know, she's she's, a very she makes friends, very easily she's, a very bubbly person, very upbeat, very mature, young lady. She had a lot of friends. Okay case very outgoing. She was very naive, young girl. You know when a lot of this stuff, comes down you'll find out that allowed lot of her experiences came from watching the Brady bunch on tv or mute Omaha's wild kingdom? You know pretty, you know, naive about a lot of things in the world and but she was a good kid You know she had a lot of friends. She was very outgoing, very bubbly, very happy. She She hung out with her brothers, who are older, some her friends were a few years older when Sandra this incident again
he took place when Sandra was thirteen. Know I've known this girl. Personally, since we've been teenagers, you know she would very beautiful young lady. She didn't look like she was thirteen. Thirteen. Looking like she was seventeen, but she was still thirteen at the time this took place and we're talking about Not only talk, we talk, I'm on an innocent time, we're talking about a pretty innocent young girl, All's well not very experienced in terms of it's really The odd reading it because now we're talking about that many years. Forty years is a big time Spence in terms of how people view things, but she was a pretty innocent, well in in a pretty innocent time in a small town. Wasn't she Yeah- and you know she- she lived in a small town, just outside of Sioux falls. Now Sioux falls SD at that time. What about eighty thousand people but it was a midwest than it was. We were sheltered environment. I mean it not a lot of crime took place. It was like it would like us
multiple setting, even though falls, was the largest town in the state of South Dakota, but she was good. Yet naive. But you would bubbly happy outgoing person at this time to talk about. Not to give anything away, but I just want to to elaborate on that point, we're talking about a sheriff and the one deputy. Only yes! Well, yes, 'cause the murder, took place. Actually in Iowa Lyon, county just outside of Rock Rapids Iowa, which is a very small community, and so the Juristic and fell under the local If there are his one deputy okay, so yeah is in that for Jurisdiction of this murder took place. So they were involved in this investigation. Now Sandra is normal. You know normal. Young, lady and she's thirteen years old in this summer.
And so tell us the circumstances where she meets a young man that she's been smitten by. Is this Roger Roger rabbit yep Yeah, I knew him well lived right by me actually For the listeners Dan, I do have personal connection to this murder? My former best friend one of the boys murdered out there. I knew all the other teenagers that were murdered and I have known Sandra Cheskey since we were teenagers how she met Roger at Thirteen Roger Sms seventeen they met at the drive movie theater, which was a big place for kids to go Sandra came into town with a friend of hers, who is three years older than her Sandra Looking like she's seventeen, she had to run in the right direction. Who is seventeen who went to Sioux falls Washington High School same high school that I attended and they, what running into each other? At the concession stand at the drive in movie theater, they spark, conversation they kind of get Bob gets her phone number and he called her up and they start dating Sandra never did,
tell him her real age. She carried just cannot avoid that topic and just said that she went to Harrisburg High School, which was outside of this. The the city of Sioux falls and, and the you know that plays itself out of the book. We talk about that. A little more. No. I talked about experience so in in terms of this thirteen year old. How experiences is she in this type of relationship, and what does she think this relationship is how serious this you take it and and in turn, as of expressing it with her friend like her best friend Debbie. Well, you now right away? Of course, she's all I mean Roger would have very good looking guy, very outgoing, not very well liked young man, I mean she was just elated bubbly I mean, and they had a date they went on dates, and but very innocent and I will say I'll tell the reader or your listeners right up front. Obviously, sexual assault that takes place on this young lady later during this crime, she was a virgin at the time they had a very
innocent relationship? You know they'd kissed held hands, it was it was it. Typical first love kind of a situation for Sandra Cheskey right. How much do and her mother, even though she was busy going to school? She got in sing degree. So she was a very busy woman tried to take care of her her children, but She was away from the home a little bit. How much did she know about her for emerging interest in boys and this Roger in particular? She know anything about that at all. Well, you know I you know, I don't believe that her mom, I think her mom knew that she, you know it went on some dates or some boys, and you know what we would it was kind of a time when I don't think her hovered over her. She was always a good kid. She responsible, you know she had her older others? Looking after her now in her Roger run dates. Beatty, which he was Rogers friend,
generally always with him because he drove Stewart had a Van and Roger didn't So there was always was kind of like dates with two hundred and thirty four people all the time they were he's off doing something with the group. Was that kind of a thing, and so our mom and again that night so people will ask what's a thirteen year old girl doing out what those boys well, it was One thousand o'clock, her mom was working when they headed out there. You know of course she had a little more liberal freedoms and some girls for age 'cause. Her mom was gone working late at night. You know her bra Were you know older So of course she went off with a boyfriend for a date that night they went out to get you Manitou State Park with a group of friends and they were going to build a fire and hang out. Two of the boys were aspiring positions. They brought a guitar along there play in, and you know, hang out for a few hours, we should get you Canada, very popular, hang out for teenagers they'd go there, build a fire and hang up these guys are pretty innocent guys, but in all
like anybody. Thirteen I totally can relate thirteen years old somebody at that point when they're are partying, is there alcohol involved as any drugs involved? They had no alcohol somebody had a marijuana joint one of the older always pulled out a marijuana joint and they had it, and you know Vietnam was still in itself out at that time. Dan. I can hardly remember going to a get together party as hot grown up during that area, where somebody somewhere didn't have a little marijuana. They were out on a backpack or they were down in a basement couple of these older. Always did have one get have some morning, I'm I'm assuming it might be one of the expiring musicians. You know and again you know they had they had a marijuana joint and so but they had no alcohol. Pardon me now when they first went to this area that they notice anything out of the usual or anything unusual, I would say an did they anything
as a result of what they had seen when you come into give the list a little visual you plan to get you Manitou Park. It was like a a dirt road. Okay and what kind of like grass, in the center of, like the two tier tire, had Warren, a groove on each side and you drove back in and after you and about a quarter of a mile. There was an old block camp shelter where you could build up their place in there. There was like a picnic table in there that for the kids first stop they were going build a fire there. When they went over there, they found the fire there was, still hot coals in the fire, and so they they just assume that maybe somebody was just there or going to come back, and so they they went down along the river a ways about another seven. Five hundred yards to another little area where there was the ability to build a fire, so they were down closer to the river up. Away from this block camp shelter and an old, rustic, pink stone, camp, shelter, kind of a neat looking thing
and then the big Sioux River kind of wind through there is kind of a it's, not stream, but it's not a real, huge river. It's just kind of a medium sized river, and so a lot of trees around there, and so that's where they went to build their fire, they were, they had picked up. The sander at about eight hundred o'clock? She thought they might be picked up earlier, but they had some sidetracks or some detours that the young man was driving said he had to have to do so. They were there. I don't know what time so, maybe can tell us around what time this was Anne, what they started to do what was the I they have a couple guitars. They start singing drink. Of course, I didn't have any alcohol yeah that what what they got down? They got good community. They got down to the campsite shelter it was about probably about, One o'clock by the time they gathered there would, you know, got it set in there got the
fire started. You know they pulled some logs up around the fire know you can kind of visual, which trees all around outcroppings of rocks, and so it's probably about one thousand o'clock at night, but the fog rolls in and out starting to get foggy. And in so here they were sitting around this glowing campfire. You know they're talking plane singing some songs, and this is when they start hearing some strange sounds often the tree line around them. You know they're snapping twigs and, like brushing sounds, come get cold against a tree. Limb crumbling of leaves in every time. The kids would go quiet to listen on the kind of the the sound to go quite sort of spooky and what happened right. And as a result, what did they? What did they do? Well, you know the first day you know they say it's getting a little worried. But then you know the older boys. They said I would probably just raccoons or just then you gotta remember their teenage kids are out for the night
This is a midwest, it's pretty sheltered. You know they they get spooked, but yet they blow it if they think ok for raccoon one of 'em joked and said, maybe it's a bear? Well, there's no bears in this area, so they knew it was you know. So they just kind of laughed it off, and so they just. You know continue their singing and talking and they just went about their business. Now we know We know what happened. It was those the murderers were were sneaking up and spying on them and then backing off and talking about what they Want to do and coming back up again, that's where the sounds were coming from is what was happening. What prompts The intruders to make canopy that's what happens? What do the There's more noise in these in these woods as they approach. So what happens? Ok, so the kids are sitting around Roger stands up. Okay and. They hear some more sound and Roger stepped away from the fire. Her boyfriend Roger at some steps away from the fire
and they see some shadowy figure starting to come out them out of the trees and he yelled? Who are you? What do you want? And at that point explosion of a shotgun goes off. And then they all the chaos start. Okay, immediately there's? You know, fear or there's you know all this. Confusion. My former best friend MIKE address he's fifteen at the time, by the way he was a tremendous athlete played with him on basque ball in baseball teams, multiple presidents fizz fitness award winner he Sandra and drags her back away from the shooting into the trees and their back next to the river in the trees hiding and they can hear more shots. They can hear wailing and screaming and their back there just frightened Confu They don't know, what's going on Sandra's thirteen, my my best friend is fifteen and they hiding, ok,
now Sandra said she did see Roger crumble and fall, and she looked up and saw one of the assailants with a shotgun up to his shoulder. Ok,. And so now, they're back is freeze hiding now the screams that you're talking about Is that related to it, and they do they believe this to be still and his brother is fourteen. Rather for a fourteen year old brother Dana, it turned out to be Stewart. The one. Who drove? Who had the Van Rogers friend he You know he was severely wounded and he cute he was the one that was yelling but back the trees they office Roger yelling, they don't know if it's your baby yelling? They don't open Dana baby, Stuart younger brother, who is fourteen they're, just confused or frightened. It's just chaos, so uh in a spot where they are hidden from these potentially from these? And these assailants looking for them and in that
moment when they're together, what what's the plan? Did they say anything to each other. What do they will again again Sandra's going what's going on and make my buddy MIKE is saying I don't know, I don't know. What's going on just stayed. Once they still don't move, you know there staying hidden behind a big tree, but don't run, you know just stay hidden for Roy. Now you know they can't see their up against for river. It's dark tour in the tree line and then and these killers are not only ruthless but they're cunning. Now they start yelling we're the place where, with the police department come out with your hands up, come out right now with your hands up where the place. Now you got a thirteen year old and a fifteen year old, right away, white white. What is these cops doing? My friend MIKE says I don't know, but these I've already shot as whatever you do. Don't run. Okay come out like the set, so they they do come they pulled up down. They came out of hiding now where they dress
in police uniforms? What was it about them that look like police to them even remotely, Absolutely nothing and that's where the confusion starts in here for confusion start they now Is my friend and Sandra come walking out? They can walk out of the trees with their hands up towards the assailants okay when they start close closer. My friend said: what are you shooting at us for one of the one of the perpetrators rate is a shotgun and shoot him drops him to the ground. Android not hit herself instinctively drops next to Matt tries to play dead yet well. My friend is pretty barely Woon did gold run the arm, but he tries to play playing dead too now you're trying to play dead. They can see these Chattaway figured moving around the campsite, walking back and forth, whispering talking and then they over and kick him and make him get up, and now they start running in the kids up, never wanted.
Ok and then nothing looks like police officers are not dressed like police officers, so even though they say their police officers. They say you had some marijuana. We we saw it. We could smell it you're under arrest, whether teenagers, they think were under arrest. We did have some marijuana, but but it's confusing they're, very frightened or confused. There whispering to each other. You know, are the cops? Are they really should you know? Should we what should we do computing? These kids? Now? Where is the? Where is Dana? at this point, INA had made it into hiding himself. Just like my friend MIKE and Sandra, went off by himself. He got into the trees by himself in and he had but he came walking out with his hands up to as he was instructed by the phony police. That was such as these teens are, and children are intimidated. There's
very suspicious. Like you, you know it in the book that they're very sad These are these aren't police is this? Is not the actions of police officers the do they. You do they challenge them at all, You know my friend MIKE during the course of this thing. Now a lot of people from from Sioux Falls area. I mean they're learning a lot about this murder. A lot of people thought was a quick kill. They thought they came in and killed the boys and took the girl. Well, it's not It goes on and on, and you know, a lot more in the book. Obviously you know that, but they they marched, kids around and at one point my friend you know, who's Woon did during while he's severely wanted he's trying to talk to one of these perpetrators and asking I mean he knows Mister Jensen, who standard believes it was a police officer at the time, and we we think that MIKE would, probably trying to see. Are they really police officers? Does he know Mister Jensen and, in the murderer says. No, I don't know him just shut up. Keep your mouth shut, your under arrest answer
marching around. They they go out, they whisper. I think these perpetrators, we're trying to decide what they're going to do. I think they believed that day Tina A was a female to from a distance. At that time, we had kind along here was you early 70s and he had a acted on. He was young, he was fourteen, you obvious they could tell Sandra with a girl. I think they believe for two girls, because then they wanted, they asked question how many girls are here and there bring out ids and show them they took the perpetrators. Could over by the head lamps of all the pick up that they came to get you Manitou in and looked at the ids. So then they keep they make the kids sit out. You know they go out, they talked they convey I think these killers are deciding what they're going to do with these kids. Okay,. Now. What is Oracle thing for these kids, of course. Now? What is the answer to their question in terms
Of the police sort of pacifying them that there that their friends are not killed, but they about this. You know what they told they. They told Sandra Sandra asking where her boyfriend as and they tell her- we she would we shot with a tranquilizer gun. He'll be okay. He'll come to a little bit while again She's ninety she watched who grew up watching mutual of Omaha's wild kingdom or they darted animals and things she's naive. She wants to believe that herb different shot with a tranquilizer gun. You know it's dark. She said she didn't see the blood all over. My friend MIKE just knew that he was you know, hit and then she's, you know he's asking her to help him obviously my friend knows he's severely Woon did he's kind of trying to keep it quiet. I don't think he's trying to. You know startle or panic this young girl, but he severely wound he's asking her to help him walk as they marched these kids around through the trees and things you know he
not feel his arm? He has standard, lays arm up against his stomach, so he can hold onto it. You we've been shot with a shot. Twelve gauge shotgun he severely Woon did. But Andrew is believing you know she's there telling her one thing, and then she seen another thing and she wants to believe it's a tranquilizer gun. Are they they don't act like cops, is also scary and confusing the rationale that the police give to pacify these this child and and teenagers. For the motive for all of this, you would talk on it about marijuana, but tell us the whole thing that the entire motive or logic behind why these of they've been shot and why they're being arrested and kind of the conversation they give to him in terms of well we'll get to that. A little bit later about him talking to Sandra about giving her a break yeah, you know and they keep your saying, you're under arrest. This is the drug bust keeper,
shut. Do, as your told you know, walk your hands in the air sit down. Yeah to go to jail. You know this one, this one is it with this. One is going to go to the police that Vail Hospital in the rest of them are going to be going to work place if you're going to be locked up for who knows how long you're in Iowa I was harder on marijuana. You guys never should have had that marijuana you're in big trouble. You know there when this kind of thing to these kids or the boys a little older there whispering. Are they really cops? They don't they don't an act like cops, even undercover where they use this kind of force on us? You know and standards going. They are cops we and know you know we have to and what they say you know they keep duping these kits, while there large neuron deciding what they're going to do with, and you, of course we're going
talk about that. We know what ends up happening to these kids. Well, let's talk about the villains here, just before we get to the actual details. Okay: let's talk about the the the the what names that the kids are actually hear them being referred to before we get out of the right. Alan Brierley out there three brothers end up being three broad. First in Allen, Fryer James Fryer and David prayer Alan Priority Old is twenty nine years old, but they kept referring to him as the boss. He called himself the boss. Ok, so Sandra refers to him as the boss. James Fryer, the twenty four year old he's referred to as Jr now his name. Real name is James Fryer and then the other one, the youngest one is twenty one years old, David Pryor. During the During the time of this scary set, and that's going on with these kids he's referred to his hatchet face. So these kids
only here, these guys being called by nicknames. Okay, so they're trying to think is that kids are undercover. They don't want anybody to know their real names. You know well, so it's the boss, J R enacted based. While these kids are being Sloan under at gunpoint now, what happens? What's the, what what precipitates them being did Sandra being separated from the other two boys and and has dealings with the boss. Tell us about this incident, and one without anything away. Well, you know the friars have come to get you manage to state park in a pickup truck. The three brothers have been are together a pick up truck when they came out there. They heard the guitar clinic for the kids talking. That's, they parked a pick up truck and came in and and snuck up and and spied on, these kids and conversed about what they were going to do. Okay cell had to face comes right,
and up into the thickets of the trees with the pickup truck they take sander they. Why are her hands behind her back? Ok, these three brothers had gotten together and so hatchet face drives a pickup truck They put his Sanders hands by her back. They wear them with. Why are they tell her? They forgot handcuffs, so they're going to use this wire. They put her in the pickup truck, ok and the boss. James it's going to put a gunnysack overhead. Now here's where I think this girl. One of the reasons she saved herself. In a sense you know when you're in a hostage situation, they say you're always try to humanize yourself to your. You know to your perpetrator she's going to put that gunny sack on her head. She kind of twist her head away and said: no, no, don't put that over my head. No, please don't and for whatever reason he stopped and he didn't put it on her head. I think that kept her more human. At that point
okay, now the other boys were made to stay sitting down. The wounded did and and Dana now Roger up here, say right up front that Roger was killed instantly at the campfire, so you've now my friend who's Woon did you've, got damn and you've got Stewart. Severely wounded. Okay, for me to sit down while they put Sandra in the pickup truck the the Jane the boss gets in the pick up with Sandra It puts the vehicle in and drive and start slowly driving away. Sandra looks back, makes eye contact with the boys, and she said it was the most mournful thing she's ever seen. She could just see it in their eyes and the boss takes off with Sandra okay and the other the Woon did. Boys and dean are left back with Jr in hatchet face. Let's just pause for a second, I gotta
to hear a message from our sponsor and we'll get right back to this. I know we're leaving at everybody on a cliff here. Another damn car spa this month is loot, crate and create is a monthly subscription box service for epic. We can gamer items and pop culture gear now for less than two Eight dollars a month, you get six to eight items that include license gear, apparel, collectables and Unique what kind items and more sure you had to www dot, lootcrate dot com slash true murder and Your coach, who murdered to save an additional three dollars on any new subscription right now, they're they're is spring and spring is springing so grab a map, your bag of holding and some friends and aprils theme is quest there forming
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We have exclusive ones as well: STAR Wars, limited edition, crates and as well that call of duty meditation edition with nine exclusive of eleven items, some incredible stuff so check that out at www dot, lootcrate, dot, com, slash, true murder,. Okay, Phil! Thank you very much for that. Let's get back to as Sandra drove away with the boss. What happened next? Well, The boss takes off with Sandra, they drive up into the dark, they leave the boys, the other two perpetrators. They go get Stewart's band they've. Bring it up. They make the boys stand on the side of the road, they put turn the vehicle round, but they had lights on him and the boys are executed. Their finished off. We shotgun blast. And I think, one of the
the things these these brothers had been out to that part to try to poach a deer, so those twelve gauge shotguns at least one of was loaded with double lot buckshot. Anybody that knows anything about shotguns guns: what they were using those it's not small beeps. You know almost like small ball, ball bearings, you know so that'll, kill a deer, so it was pretty horrific crime. So we're talking about some of the boys we're shot, but you say in the shoulder of the arm, but there was some: There was some shotgun blast to the face of one or two of the boys. Wasn't there, well, yeah I mean they were. They were shot up pretty good. You know there was outstanding. You got two guys with shotguns executing them. You know she I'm going to spread out an again dub buckshot at least one of those shot guns. You know I did quite a number, so it's a pretty heinous crime and you know,
like Leroy Greasy, the deputy who is although they share from the deputy, he told us, you know, I just hope, those on top the photographs are, nobody ever sees just give him nightmares, and you never forget him. You know, of course they were used at the trials. You know to show the the jury just what these these guys do it, but nobody ever needs to see those autopsy photos, and that was his. That was from deputy greasy. Who is a part of the investigation and part of that law enforcement team. Well, let's get back to the the main person in the story and that Sandra she does not hear the gunshots does. She she does. She does not know the fate of her friend whatsoever and she's with the boss. Now we alluded to it. What is the boss supposed to do with Sandra and what's their ride like, and what do they talk about?
to tell her you don't work, please we're going to go to an abandoned farm awaiting think drugs are stored. We we know why she's being taken to the abandoned farm, you he sexually assaulted and she's, going to be finished off. Okay, well, he's ten, I heard that they have to stop. You have to meet up with. You know his partners at this abandoned farm where they think drugs are stored. They have some other police business to do and So he starts heading to a pre pre Turman spot were after they killed the boys back to park. The other brothers are going to take, Search Van and they're, going to meet up with actual what they did was they took Stewart Van and they drove it in Sioux Falls, South Dakota dropped it off and picked up a small car. That was one of the perpetrators cars and then proceeded to this abandoned farm and met up The boss and Sandra out there so the
they did have some kind of maybe it wasn't a great plan, but they thought they had some kind of plan to elude. Please send for the police tonight yeah. Well, you know it. Dysfunctional for plant is they had a plan. There was a mission. They were on a mission. Obviously. And so they they all met up. Yeah go ahead. Go ahead! Sorry, sorry. Well, I'm just saying, and they all meet up at the farm at this abandoned farm in this is the sexual assault of Sandra takes place. Okay,. Who sexually assaults Sandra and tell us the tell us the conditions. Well, you know here she is she's, said in the in the pickup truck that the boss, James Fryer, took her away in and the the three per traders have now met up there standing out in front of the pickup truck and it's Jr James Fryer, that all
and come over to pick up gets in and rapes are in on the on the seat of the pickup gave the other you do not rape her gate, one of them raped her, and so you know, we've always found that kind of strange. We wonder what that all is all about. You know, there's obviously, there's gonna be more details and things in the book. You know one. You know when everything away, but you know the leaders would have to like, like me, and a lot of people you're, trying to figure this whole thing out and just like the detectives here, the next day we're going to talk about that. You know we're trying to figure this all out, but one of them rapes her. What she up to that point, whether she is skeptical or not,. She is believing that this guy is a police. Officer and that She is going to arrive home safely and It be all over with our friends are safe and this night, there will be over. So what's
Reaction and what does she conclude after this sexual assault? Suddenly well, you know she's demoralised, but in Mandrian talking to Sandra. Now again, you know she kept a lot of this stuff in for so many years. But to her and that's what authorities did you know? She have a good experience with some of the authorities at that native work on boarding school. She was shipped off to when she was younger. She thought these were adults that were abusing their power. She wanted to believe they were a cop, and this is what she was going to have to live through to reporter put a locked up, put put a detention center, this guy's going to just get by with what he wants to do with me. You, she just tomorrow, she's confused, she's, degraded in in her mind, she still trying to process this whole thing now. The bosses, Job Allen's job, is to kill her. So what does he do? Ok, so hatchet face in Jrp.
Your listeners will find this interesting and we talk a little more about it in the book. J or the rapist was actually locked up in the Sioux Falls County jail when he pulled this rape and murder. The jail had a had a check out program that perpetrators based on whatever crime they were locked up for and James Pryor was locked up for stolen goods and transporting stolen goods. He could check out or sign out of the jail go work job site and then come back and check back into jail. Okay, so hatchet face David Pryor after the rape they he drives James Fryer back to the Sioux falls jail. So he can. And back in and lock up, but there many hours James Fryer was a tow truck driver. That was his job Which gave him liberal hours, you know he could sign out at night to trucks operate twenty four hours a day,
Chateau Du Lac, somebody at the jail was not checking. Why was there this big several hour lag in between when you punched out of your job as a tow truck driver? And you don't with the jail. Until you know three o'clock in the morning to see what I'm saying to it black in the morning? Whatever time he checks back in ok, there was a lot backlash in that in that community when the community found out about this, so the two brothers. Take off. They leave Sandra with the boss, James Prior, who is supposed to finish her off tape or excuse me, Alan Fire is supposed to finish her off back at the abandoned farm and the other two head to Sioux falls Hatchet face drop James off, he goes under the jail check himself back in and David goes to wherever he goes so now we Then we've got the boss, Alan Fryer and Sandra back at the abandoned farm, and
happened to you alluded to this that your survival instincts kick in. So why do you believe that he didn't kill her again? She continues to talk to him. She continues conversing with him. You know are you going to let me go like you said you know, I don't want to get in any more trouble. You know. You know he has a low iq to you know he scored pretty low on his intelligence scale, Dan, ok and so I don't think this guy is functioning as high as you possibly should she humanized Self to him she takes up to the abandoned farm. He pulls out a wooden axe, handle out of the back of his pickup and he takes her up there. Says that they're going to go inside, see if there's any critters to kill inside that her instincts are saying: no, this isn't good when they get up the band of pharmacy staff back. She goes no, I'm not going in there. It's too spooky and creepy, and then it's like
he doesn't know how to respond. Ok, he looks at her and she starts back. Glances, I'm not going in that abandoned house and she starts walking towards the pickup well at this point. You know you're wondering you know why isn't he doing his job? Why isn't he finish in grow up, maybe some She's humanize yourself to him been a little forceful he's. Not function at it with a real high iq? You know, but he doesn't he let her go, walk back and get in a pickup truck. He walks back and gets in then he just starts dry, and then he tells her. Where do you live and I'm going to take you home and so long beha? He drives her to the small town of outside of Sioux Falls called T South Dakota, where she with her mom and brothers, and he drops her off very close to her house. Let's her go, what is he tell he told her yeah
culture that I'm still cop. You don't tell me buddy who we are. You know we could get in trouble for what we did tonight, but we don't listen for Copd would only go to jail prison for a little while, then we come back and get you and you, By the way I a little black book that I keep everybody's name, give me your phone number and I want to keep track of everybody that we've been dealing with it with his police matter. I need your phone number, I'm going to drop you off at home and he goes by well I'll give you a call sometime when I'm in the area. So did you get a weird obsession with this girl too? You know you read the whole book. You start getting these different ideas. It's just you know somebody so bizarre twist, the same Dan. You know- and so it's like this gets what phone number yeah this lack of, logic to really again adds another twist to this story. Tell us what happens when she gets dropped off. What does she do?
She immediately goes in is in the house now. Her mom is now it's about four hundred or after in the morning, she's she's confused. You know I was out there were kind of in trouble. I've been raped, she she doesn't know what she should do. She doesn't want to tell her mom right away. So she goes up wakes up, one of her older brother and start spewing out this story to him and he they do not sound like real cops. Real got. You've got you need to go to the police but what, if they are, I gave them my phone or they know where we live, and he says Sandra I I don't know but yeah they don't sound like real cops, you're going to have to just think about this, we something's got gotta happen. This is just think, So she goes to her room to think about this. What what is she I want to do. Is she still so confused traumatized? What's going on and so I think she kind of slightly dodos off she's kind of in a stupor. It
then she realizes it's like eight hundred and thirty. In the morning she gets up. She goes in her mom had already left for work, so she gets on the phone and tries to call her her boyfriend Roger have been hit with a tranquilizer gun sheathing. CZ home. No, she keep calm he's not home? Her mom says you must have spent the night at one of his friends house he's not here. So she desperate to try to find you know, find her boyfriend. She calls a friend tells her friend to come over the phone. Does come over. They don't know what to do. If you want to talk to Roger one of the boys, so they go to the interstate and she's going to hitchhike back out to get you Manitou Park, to see if the boys are out there then, on the way through Sioux falls they're taking out to get you man tool, they stopped at a pay phone call her boy. Different Roger Sms House. One more time, and by this time the family have been informed. That Roger is dead.
And one of Rogers older brother said Sandra stay. Are I'm coming to get you right now and he goes down to pick her up at the pay phone, her friend, Take some downtown to the Sioux Falls police station. The detective girl, how were the bodies discovered so that By the time she called back to Rogers home that they had been informed. Tell us a little note that little story there was there was a. There was a couple that were test driving a car that morning a car that they were going to buy. Maybe from a private party. They test driving a car and they just happened to you try to drive through get you Manitou could was pretty. They thought they try to look at the fall. Colors number November 17th at these murders took place. They were going to drive through the park, He they saw the dead bodies laying along off just off the road. Of course, a raised I can call the authorities right away. That's how the body discover the boys had money and identification right on them, so it didn't take the
very long to it to get ahold of the family. Now, like you say by the time she called Sandra Calls, Rogers fan only they've been notified and that Rogers is killed. So what happens in terms of the police and how do they proceed with the investigation and the questioning of Sandra. Well, so so Rodgers brother takes this girl down to the police department and takes true, detective and right away. The detect He says young later, there's been a homicide. You know what that is. She did You know what how much I'd met. She don't want to act stupid. She never heard the word homicide. She thought it had something to. With them having marijuana, she thought it was a legal term. She said Yes and he said, come with he read her her rights? He finger her and right away. She was suspect. Okay, they didn't believe her
Now, let's put ourselves in the shoes of the detectives, and this is what they're thinking was Why are you the only one of five teenagers to live young lady and what murderer aq you and drops you off by your house. When he's done, murdering everybody, you know who this is worth you're in on it or you know who did it with a jealous ex boyfriend who came out? There was mad at me at it. You know for those of you being with all boys who did that she's desperately trying to tell them the story and it's true false up to code, a in the early seventies, a shelter barman they're, not believe in this don't come on. This is stranger murder. This is too bizarre. This doesn't happen like this three perpetrators. I don't know anybody just walks in and do it does So you can. You can understand from the detective standpoint why they might not leave her at first. What is her demeanor, though in in
she's questions. You know she's thirteen years old, so some people would be just a b and that's about all they could they could do for themselves. So what was her demeanor she? basically still she's, basically still in shock, she writes a twelve page. She's been up almost all night she's been you know, she's, not thinking real, clear she's been up all night she's been sexually assaulted, she'd been confused, she's been frightened, she ski You know sure mind is not thinking real, clear, Although she remembers a lot of details, she wrote a twelve page, handwritten witness statement, starting from when the boys picked her up to go out to get you. We have that part of our investigation. We have a photocopy of that very detailed, and many of much of it goes right through what what I'm telling you right now for your listeners in you tonight. And in her mind, she wants to believe that the boys are not dead. You know, and she knows
search Ocheesee Third Bennell this trauma, you. She saw she witnesses his shooting she. You know she was frank. She was traumatized, but to still believe that they were alive? They were hit with a tranquilizer gun and the and what her mother's Lolo showed up at the police Department Sheriff Craig Vincent who becomes a main player in this thing. Member he's the sheriff of Lion count and deputy Leroy Greasy or the two jurisdiction law enforcement agents for Gitchi Manitou to sharpen showed up down there when she brings her mom in and sheriff instant, tells a mom she's written a detailed thing. We hope we can find these murders of the old boys and then Sanders at murderers murder. Is that what homicide, meat and banshee complete really breaks down. Now she realizes the magnitude of what has happened and, in Vincennes being very perceptive rely
is, is that the demeanor that she expressed when she did that twelve page report very detailed was as a result of not knowing what homicide meant. Ten night yeah Krag Vinson was just we passed away by the way Dan. He was the old time gut instinct lawmen. He was one of the few people at that time that believe this girl, when a lot of the detective from the Sioux falls Police Department, where you know they'd, get off to the side and they say come on this- is that drive in this girl knows more than she's telling you Craig Benson developed a relationship, it's a lot of respect for share of Craig Benson, he believed her. He kept reassuring her. He gave her more confidence and now this course get into more of that relationship in the book, but this relationship between Vincent and Sand, he starts to flourish and in the course of this investigation- and it's you
very unusual way that they use this kernel to try to apprehend these killers. Now she he believes in her so much that they gave her the giver give a rape kit exam, and also that they rely on her for for a sketch from the sketch artist, and and they did also put her in protective custody or Not protected, but they were trying to keep her safe, wasn't weren't they yeah yeah. They shoot put on a safe house for their family. We have three perpetrators. She gives a composite sketches of what these guys look like and, I believe, you've? Read the book right dance. You see how accurate that thirteen year old girl, you know you know, describe those people for the sketch artist we've got
the composite sketches right below their actual mug shots, and it's pretty pretty good, pretty good. Like likeness of those people, they put her in a save power for their family? There's a man hunt going off these guide. But yet there still a faction of detectives Golden there's more to this than meets the eye. This girls not telling the truth, but then believes in this girl. Vincent believes in her so much that they also are going to look for that. The abandoned house that she describes it they were in and also that she has seems to be Securely that she has so many details that she can remember about the vehicle, like even like a registration sticker on the and the color and lots of details that she did so they also went on journeys to try to see if she could record act or remember where this abandoned house might be
yeah now you know for your listeners or then you get a member here at thirteen year old girl who was taken by by the boss and driven in the dark and driven several miles away from get you Manitou, ok, and so she doesn't recognize the road sure exactly what direction they were. They turned this way. They turned that way. They were on gravel roads and they were on tar roads, so sure of Craig Benson decides to get this girl and a detective in the vehicle each morning and start driving the grid, A circular grid around Sioux falls getting wider and wider going past. Every farmhouse they can think of. Tell Sandra maybe we'll see something that you would recognize by that abandoned farm. If anything is a cheese, then she's and there and they're driving one day. She's also taken a polygraph test and passed yeah, so he's even more confident. This Vinson now is
you're driving one time they there was another detail. Weather was a red gas tank that she said was that this farmhouse so tell us what happens one day when Vinson and her driving an what did they discover? Well, do you want me to do You want me to be the story spoiler there, Dan, which we make him by the butcher. They'll still buy the book. He says they'll still be the bug. Ok, well, here's what happens there, also looking for a farm that abandoned? That has a red gas tank? Okay, we didn't we didn't we didn't get to this part when, when Alan Fryer first left get you two, when the when the boys were left back there to be executed Do a farmer he had some keys and there's a big red gas tank sitting next to a barn and he gassed up his pickup truck with
that key the key to the padlock that he had any any gas to vehicle up, then he took off and left again and drove her to the band apart. Well, it turns out out that Alan Fryer was a hired hand on that farm, so he did have. Access and keys to that gas tank, so they were not only looking for the abandoned farm. They were looking for operational farm that had the big red gas tank setting next to the barn but they're dry. Been day after day. We goes into weeks or just driving and driving, and getting frustrated and sure Vincent's trying to trying to keep spirits up. Look at and then LO and behold, one day there driving down the road and coming at them as a pickup truck and Sandra starts screaming there. He deserves the boss right there and it was Alan Where are the boss coming down the road he had just pulled out when they, when they draw after they detected that was riding share of Benson dropped
drop in the ditch with him turned around and went after Allan Fryer when they got him handcuffed. He had just come out of the farm for the big red gas tank was so in this strange twists is young girl was also involved in apprehending one of the murders. Right a lot of they go at it too. Absolutely we won't get into all the the twist because, but we will go into this one thing, so I guess maybe to leave everybody hanging on a cliff which would be that. When they put these gentlemen in prison? That's not the end of. The story, so tell us what happens in prison with these. Criminal, let you know David Fryer before they went to trial the youngest one pleaded guilty
I believe his attorney talked him into thinking before he'd have to be sentence, but I think he I think he thought that by pleading guilty and not going to trial, he might get a better sentence. Ok. Well, it turned out. He got life without the possibility of parole, and then he turned around tried to renege and pull back. His guilty plea in the judge said no we're not playing this game, so he ship golf to prison, and now for a year and a half, the murder trials are going on and they show girl is used as a prime witness in the core first of this. Jr the rapist and Allen the boss Why are locked up in the Lyon County jail in rock Rapids Iowa, it's it's the old time. GL, this is like something out of Mayberry the sheriff and wife cook the meals. You know it was the old time jail or Barney. Five is working they had, you know sure Vincent kids would play, out in the front yard and Alan Fryer,
he would yell out to him and they'd have a dog and he would bark like a dog and try to yell, and if you know the parents were telling the kids to stay away, don't talk to him. And out the sheriff and his family lived on one side of all of all of the wall. The book block wall and, on the other side with the jail cells and the office, will just come like the old time Mayberry County, no, the so we we will leave the listener for something for them to look into in terms of purchasing this book and getting the rest of the story, because there's so much material in terms of this about half the store Because when you mention that Sandra takes isn't Very important person in this trial, she's the star witness obviously so, this woman that has injured so much. That was such an innocent young girl is now have to. Somehow mature,
rapidly to be able to handle this vicious vase, basically cross examination at court, because it's just not as easy as making getting a conviction with the obvious people being guilty and the other part of the most important part of your book is the recovery. If, if there is Anything are or how she tries to recover anyway, her, I guess ongoing recovery from this incredible crime and also the she was considered, the Gitchi cheaper, and unbelievably this is one the most. I guess some things are more unbelievable, things is the the criticism that he got in the the isolation that she encountered because of the stigma of being the gitchie girl and people
their their children weren't allowed to hang around with her despite the trial and everything else. So I thought that is it's an amazing story of survival and overcoming these incredible odds and invents and discrimination. So I could say. There's at least one slash two of the story not to be told here in this interview. Well, exact Dan, and also for your for the interest of the book. There is a jail break too, before these guys are found guilty. These guys break out. There's a lot more to this story that that we haven't talked about and then begin to grow, There is where the title of the book comes about, as you said Dan, when Sandra got done, testifying and finally put these guys away for life. She people appreciate what she did for justice and for those boys she You know she don't want a metal or anything, but she thought people would appreciate what she did. She give up school for, and a half? You know,
Gone all the time to these trials and finally wins the victory of getting these guys locked up, and you know how the defense attorneys can be. They tried to discredit this girl tripper up. You know when she was brought The end of the courtrooms it was, it was a media mob. Now you know you're a former you're a journalist. I will tell you that Sandra had a very good experience with couple of journalists and wanted particularly, and it brought her to the ability to open up a lil. But on this story after many years, but uh that time it was also a mob mentality. These journalists Wanda MOB this girl. You know she had to be snuck into the side door of the courthouse. They wanted to get a statement. They want to get pictures of her. She was a big. Celebrity to be seen by all the you know, the gawkers and the court spectators. She had to go through all that as a young girl and then, when it call don. She just thought people would appreciate it, but she turned out to be the gitchie girl that was her neck name an I remember when this happened this girl people shun her it like she had done.
Something wrong. You know there was different day back then Oprah wasn't on tv. It was like you were raped in you, sexual, a sexual assault. What did you do wrong? What were you wearing? Why did you entice the you know why were you even with those boys it was like she did something wrong. She was a tainted girl for being with the boys when they got murdered. People whisper to bother You know she was ailing at school. She went to school dances and nobody would talk to her dance with her. She said I felt like I was one hundred year go than everybody else. Buddy those know girls were able to talk about going to the dance and first dates and kisses. I was to get you girl. I didn't fit anymore, people don't want to be around me. She dropped out of school life started spiraling out of control. It's you know, it's a you know. She physically survive that night, She was a survivor that night physically, but the emotional insp virtual survivor survival for that girl. It took many different,
so we talk about and how her life went, and you know the I say she'll forever be to get you girl. Even to this day. She's doing this book has been immensely good for this girl. We've gone to. Book signing for hundreds of people have turned out. It's been amazing that book the hugs that she's going to the tears she finally opened up the girl physically look better than when we first started interviewing, for this book. She starting to her emotions are starting to serve us, she's, fine getting to release through getting They run through these book signings and through going and being with me when we do discussions and talks and go places and talk to people she's really starting to open up. Really starting to heal. Now, through this book. A party serious too part of this? feeling too, and I won't give any more away of this incredible book, but she finds it in there
in her heart in her mind to go visit the boss. She does. She has a she has a comp. Forty years later, she has sit down with. And we revealed that in the book we talk about that confrontation through victims advocate she, go to Fort Madison, prison and Allen, watch fryer who was supposed to kill her. That night letter goal agrees to meet with her and she confront him on some issues she wanted to, and you know up to that me. In two weeks before that this girl was emotionally and physically sick. She almost didn't make it. She was throwing up. She insomnia, just the courage it took to her to one of the maximum security prison and guy after how many years. And finally gets the question Dan. She gets to question
answered why he told her why he didn't kill her that night, but we're not going to tell him that but I don't think that a lot of bugs Cory this courage of this young girl, through all the things she lived through and here something else. I'll tell you about Sandra Cheskey, the Gucci girl to this day, hey Dan, she is still one of the most optimistic people she would meet you she would. She would only look at your good point stance. She only one to try to see the best in people here to girl that could be bitter and hateful for what her life would be like and how people treated her and what she lived through, but she's. You know she she gets so good. In her I mean she's amazing person and uh I'm just so proud of her, and you know proud, She opened up up and allowed my wife and I had to do the story. We thought this book would sell around the Sioux falls. We had no idea
go to number one national bestseller. We had no idea of the calls were getting. You know to go speak of the book signings I mean it's just been incredible. It's just The book has gone better than we ever thought it would. But I you know, I guess now people are telling us It's got all the right elements, self we just tell us a little bit about this book was not was co authored by your your wife sandy. So tell us, called her role with this book and and and really. When do? I know that you are in this area, but is your wife also and again so tell us a little bit more. About your personal stake in this story, we know yeah you've got listener instead of writers in the rabbit readers very difficult, very, very difficult land publishing contracts. When you write a great book like itchy girl, you know, there's great writers at you know they. I happened years right now.
More hours of my life, I had a very harsh child. Looking up, I kept it all quiet it just kind of came out as a fluke. I'm a high school teacher in English, and I wrote these memoirs and it's about overcoming a very impoverished, neighborhood federal housing units, a lot of I think violence a lot of bowling having to do a lot of fist fighting. You know you know between me and three of my buddies when I was a young man, we accumulated fifty two arrest. Felony charges two shot to stab one paralyzed made the road, I'm the only one that didn't go to prison and bail out of that group, a long term jail out of that group of friends of mine. My life that turned around, I became us high school teacher. I sidestep felony charges. My life changed immensely when those land those landed rare publishing contract. So I had a connection with a pop fishing company out of Texas Electrical Publishing in sander ran into her periodically. I gave her my memoirs to read her brother said.
That was kind of a a turning point for her. She thought maybe she could help people if she shared her story, so we knew this book was going to be, even though it could have been a thousand book. Now for your for your listeners, it's not a very long book. We wanted it not to be a real, expensive, Booker people they to to send reaper three weeks. So I got my way: on board, who also also it reading and writing here in the Sioux City School district she did, thank interviews with Sandra Cheskey emails. She interviewed law enforcement people. She cross reference a lot of things on the internet. You know those murders, the prayer, brother, They would say one thing, one time and another thing another time, and then the court record I'd, say another thing so we had to in order to get his ass. It is possible and then, while and my wife now that's the computer parts and rock jazz gives the Gitchie girl my wife sandy they both have the same name. My wife, the author goes by Sandy Sandra, is to get girl
so. While my wife Sandy was doing interviews and cross referencing things, who is going to the clerk of courts digging through boxes of investigate record autopsy report, you and all that kind of stuff. Then we bring everything together laid out. What do we want to keep what we want to throw out what is going to appeal to the the mail reader, the female reader. We want a real long, so we had but that's kind of how it is and that's how it went and then, of course, we work with Sandra Cheskey, now when it was all said and done. You know on Amazon, it's got lots and lots a review of reviews. It's you know getting very good ratings and we've A few law enforcement people that were actually part of the investigation or involved in this thing have actually got on Amazon and given reviews and said this book is very accurate. I know for a fact I was involved in the investigation. The actual case file. So we did a pretty good
of the accuracy so we've got. We've got a multi level story. It reads with a little bit of flavor of of of a true crime which it is we get from investing stop, but it's got deep human interest side too, and so it's it's not lots of real lengthy detail on one side. It's a pretty balanced book. I think we try to do a pretty good job. A balancing the book out for a variety of readers. I think that's why it's been pretty popular well, I think really just you just capture a unique story. Again, that's what people were looking for different story and this one has those Nick elements to it, and and mostly in that, how this woman starts at thirteen and how she can evolve, because really she should have been damaged beyond repair from this age and what she had seen what you experience, because I just say, when she thinks that are that are friends.
Aren't killed their killed when she she's arrested, she's detained she's used to find these in May, they escape her. Family has to be put in isolation, it just seems to never end for this woman but, like you say, incredible optimism once she confronts these people at court in that trial, Well, then, goes to see them see him in in prison. This woman, how's. Everything in her I mean that I've ever heard in my life to be able to heal herself and unless, like many other books where you say well, no one really recovers if there ever is a tale of recovery. It's this woman be just because she feel it's her inherent right to be able to recover. From this. What a strong person you know and then you she never got any counseling, not back, then not ever you know,
was back in the day. You know back in the early 70s. You know it was just kind of like you don't talk about those things. You don't bring up rape, you don't bring up domestic violence, incest, Oprah, wasn't on tv, those were just taboo things that were kept quiet and even her family. Her brothers who loved or desperately wanted to help this girl, but they didn't it was, like you, don't talk about it. Don't talk about that night that night just don't open the old wounds and it'll just go away on its own, well at state, and this girl and faster than she had to find all these ways you, like you, said her inherited right to try to survive this thing, so she's cost only working on her emotional and spiritual survival with all these different meth. And that's kind of an interesting part, two how this girl come Ronan Sandra said herself that she hopes at her story will be able to give inspiration to people who have gone through hard time.
And know that they can survive and they can find ways and not to give up you know and That was one of the things and another reason why she opened up this late and I told this story is that she now has grandchildren who are bought the aged She was when this gucci situation too. Place there now old enough to become interested in this case and there's lots of on out there on the internet, about this murder. You know there was a lot of Controversy, a lot of bad talking about Sandra Ann- and there still is this girl was just bleh delete on social media like two weeks ago for telling this story well, I told Sandra when this thing comes out. Sandy you're, going to you're going you're going to have to go back, Put up your survivor, you know how it's going to be. There is going to be allowed that are going to the store, but there's always those people like your
blogtalkradio special round and they'll always be somebody that's going to knock it. There's always those people that it's about it's about them. It's not really about sander that bitch girl. It's about them and I you know I've had to talk to Sandra about this. You know she still emotionally fragile and then you get these people that will bully run social media. You know relative of one of the the boys that were murdered, that didn't want this story, told you don't just don't bring it up, and so this person, you don't mean to this girl. And so that's why I'm saying she will forever be the gift you girl, yeah incredible one last thing before I just talk to you about how people might be able to contact you Is that a very interesting part of the story is that a crucial person in this after the murders is the would be
my friend, Roger or the short lived boyfriend Roger his brother and so was a big help in in her recover. I would say to yes: he was then again that family grew up and grew, go up and got married, and you know she lost her support group there. You know this girl. The book is very interesting how this girl's life has been a roller coaster. You know until she does. Finally fine, stability and how she find it, and you know- and she don't get too into a funk- danshi you know, they'll be a certain song. That'll come on from that era. You know this girl had caught, ask survivors guilt, she had post traumatic stress, you know it just you know those terms, weren't point to a lot of those guys came back from Vietnam. Then they started realizing that people that have gone through. Matic situation. You know, they've they've got these symptoms. Real head classic: survivor's guilt. You know she, you know she didn't
I think that she should be alive when the boys were gone. You know it. Survivor's guilt, only strong girl yeah. Well, I want to thank you Phil for coming on talking about the get you girl, the survivors inside story of the mass murders that shocked the heartland for those that might want to contact you. Do you do facebook? You have a website yeah I've got I've, got an author's facebook site, Phil Hammond, or fill author at Authorgmail, dot com they can. They can private message. You know on Facebook. I try to answer everybody and sell I try to get back to everybody that if they've got a private message, it's at Build Hammond author dot com website. And so there it sounds either the facebook there's a facebook site. You know if they type in get you girl, it'll pop up they'll, be all kinds of stuff that will pop up at the top. Pop my name in there Phil Hammond it'll pop up.
You know they can get ahold of me and I'm always interested in you know doing other things for people or answering peoples. Questions I try to you know, spend a certain part of the day. Just answering you know private messages and emails, and things like that you know Well, that's great bill. Thank you very much for coming on and talking about this book, the kitschy girl. It's fast, dating story and a very unique story of again incredible recovery and a tail that the twists and turns and really keep Johnny at your seat in a credible books. All thank you very much and that I should anyone yeah one last thing we do give for book: sales and Ibooks else. We do give a percentage of that that girl who lived through that night and we give a percentage of the council and sexual assault domestic violence. So it's a We do try to take care of some people to with book sales. Salt They know that that's a fantastic addition to just a great book to as well.
A great cause. Thank you very much and again. Thank you very much bill. You have tv guide and thanks for having having me on. Thank you. Goodnight goodnight,.
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.