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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them. Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, night, stalker, BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalists and offer Dan asking good evening. This is the Brook ram true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors have written about them with your whole stands of asking the affluent suburb of Chess Connecticut seem like the perfect place for doc.

William, the House, a row journeys far and wide to bring you exceptional quality kitchen about fixed, is in all of this you'll see the details of your own story, a story of a life. Well, crafted welcome to the House of Rome at it, and his wife, Jennifer HOT, headed to razor two lovely daughters until July twenty third, two thousand and seven, when, according to police to ex con later the pet at home, hoping to embark on a routine robbery, one that would ultimately prove deadly. One unfolded at three hundred sorghum mill drive with a tragic and horrifying sequence of events that shocked at community and made headlines across the nation before that. The morning was over. Mrs Haug headed and one of the daughters would be sexually assaulted and the entire house would go up in flames and only doktor petted his head bloodied. His legs bound would manage to escape with his life with the help of neighbours and local police. The two success with

suspects were soon found, captured now: Josh Joshua, commissaries, Jeske and Steven Hayes away trial for murder. The book this evening that we are featuring is in the middle of the night, with my host journalist and author Brian Mix Ronald. Thank you for intervening to this green to this interview, Brian and welcome to the program. Brian Mcdonald, Hey Dan. How are you tonight very well and thank you for agreeing to this interview a great book by the way, no problem. Thank you now, first But let me ask the question: I usually ask the guess: 'cause, I'm always interested in and usually leads to an interesting answer. What made you decide to write a book about this particular case? Well, I mean I mean, first of all, because how shocking it was I'll. Give you I'll give you a little bit of the background. I didn't, I didn't know open the paper now. This was front page news. I live in New York City. This was front page New York Times NEWS this murder in Connecticut.

For a while after it happened and it wasn't like. I opened the paper and say jeez. I want to write about this didn't unfold. That way at all. I had written book from my publisher, a true crime book, a call safe harbor. It was about a woman that was murdered on Nantucket, and so I had a little bit of a track record with Saint Martin, Sir true crime and them my agent and my editor from the first but your crime. But I did conspired and called me and asked me if I would be interest in in writing about the Cheshire murders so I didn't jump into it right away. It was such a heinous crime. It was, you know, I mean involved children, sexual abuse, all things that can keep you up at night. You know- and so I, but after reading about it and doing some initial,

You know investigating into it. I decided that it was the story and it was a story that resonated so so clearly with in cold blood you know the granddaddy of all true crimes that it was an opportunity that I thought I couldn't. I couldn't pass up. So I did it now. Let's go back and set the scene for where this crime takes place. The community to doctor William Petit and his wife and the daughter lived, give us that background. Give us what the life of doktor pet it would be in his family. What were they like? Typically, what was a community like a big as a committee, whereas a geographically to a bigger city where we might recognize? Ok, it's it's a bedroom community, Cheshire, Connecticut, it's a beautiful call! It a new England town. It's like the town should see him in movies about about New England. This,

informing elements still there, but it's been built up through. You know several waves of affluence and it's a bedroom community to Hartford, not Hartford, where the insurance companies, you know the big insurance companies had their headquarters, but also to yell yell University in a lot of people that work at at and for the university live in Cheshire, Connecticut, now Doktor pet, it would say in the endocrinologist his wife was a nurse. I worked in a a local, private School Cheshire Academy, very well known

in the area of private school when she was the school nurse back to pet. It had a private practice and also where work that of a hospital up there. He was very well known in the community very well respected in the community. They have had two daughters Hayley who was about to enter Dartmouth. She was going to follow her fathers. What steps he had graduated from Dartmouth? She was going to study pre law I and my camera. Who is eleven at the time and Mikhail Precocious young lady, who was a year a fan of Rachel Ray and wanted to be a phobia chef, flushed celebration. What have they were? Really the idyllic family. I mean it was a perfect little blue. They lived on sorghum mill drive is a you know as a block replicated thousands at times throughout North America. It

the kind of black you wanna, live on. You wanna be raise a family on its something like this happening on a street like that is so incongruous. It's it's it's absolutely shocking. So it was like the perfect setting for a family for a further doktor petted family. Now, let's go to the main characters in their serve tragic tail: Joshua, commissar, Comazar, Chicama, Sergeev, ski. It's amount of policies, comma, sorry, Jeske! Ok, we got it that name. First of all day. Let me just give you a little background. I mean the name itself is: was

you know it's a famous russian name. His Joshua was adopted into the family, but I mean you're not alone tripping over that may everybody troops over all the journalists do all it by law enforcement people throughout his life at everybody associated can't get this name out, but the name. You know its russian nets that snow shock, but it serve a very famous his grandfather, his adoptive grandfather, Joshua's, the thought that was a a russian director very well known, direct russian director in the but in the ball. Schizoid theatre, that famous Bolshoi ballet, the Bolshoi Theatre moved to immigrated to the United States and- and you know well I'll, tell you a little bit about how how Joshuas family came out but go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt what was your question? Oh? No! No! I just Joshuas life

but you have already alluded to that is adopted. So tell us, go just back a little bit too how we came to be adopted into this. No wealthy affluent family. Ok, he was some a you know. He was adopted at birth. He didn't his birth parents, his uh. He found a little bit out about them later on, and his mother was only sixteen. His biological mother was only sixteen. His father was just a little bit older, maybe one thousand nine hundred and twenty, and there was the indications that there was. You know that that might have been drugs involved in the biological parents and that's why they put Joshu up for adoption, but that didn't do anything to give him a bad life because he traded he traded up by being adopted whose adopted the commissar jet skis his parents, his adoptive parents,

Ben and Jude Calmer sagacity were, by all indications, lovely lovely, lovely couple. There were questions, they were fervent Christians, Sayer Joshua, belong to a series of of I want. I don't want to say fundamentalist churches, but in that vein a very, very my religious people and- and they were also the surroundings- did just amazing- were just amazing. His his grandfather met. The russian grandfather causes grandmother, grandma married, it gets a little convoluted here, but his grandmother married, the russian grandfather, died as grandmothers married a man by the name of Chamberlain, who

I say I am actually pretty well known. Writer was a columnist for road, several big magazines and also a book review for the New York Times and ban. He owned a sixty five acre estate in Cheshire and it was surrounded by horse form. It was pure, it's beautiful, it's wooded streams, babbling Brooks you name, it is just a beautiful place and that's where Josh would grow up. He his his parents had a small house. They called it the homestead. It makes it sound like it's a bigger place than it. Actually was you know when it was kind of ramshackle when one I went up and but the I mean he had. He had everything every advantage now early on here started to show some MA am he started to show some behavioral problems and and and they had to take em out of public schools and his mom whole homes golden, but that that didn't inhibit

any any education? At all I mean he, his mother was a librarian. His grand father who lived on the estate with right his grandmother was a ballet dancer. I mean they had all of this influence of arts and and letters and his father was Ben Calmer suggestion was a carpenter and that an electrician, so we had in a tube tutelage and in in Vienna working with his hands and everything I mean at a wonderful childhood. It was just it was just but but around the age of twelve he he started. He had any. No I'll tell you a little bit. I actually spoke to him on a number of occasions, and and uh correspondence with them via letter letters for four for many months, leading up to the trial, but I'll tell you later.

So that's how I have all this information comes first and it comes from him when he was around twelve, he broke into a house, he was coming home. He used to ease to leave the house like a hit. Wait till his parents went to sleep there about the top fucking night. One hundred o'clock in the morning it get out of the house, had go out his bedroom window and jump on the garage and then go into the woods. You know and spend the night in the woods and it always make it back in time before six hundred o'clock and his father would wake up. So his father never knew he was he was, he was out of the house, but he was. He was doing these night night voyages or whatever through the woods by himself. You know and the say he got he e ventured farther than than he thought and the sun was coming up and he knew he was going to get quite so he broke into a house he's twelve years

we broke into a house stole a set of keys for car and took the car out the driveway and drove it home. So he could beat his father getting up, so he wouldn't get caught and that's how his life of crime started, and it was pretty big if it's a prefer twelve year old the pretty big entrance interval, I sure I'd still in a car but someone he realized how it ends according to him, and you know how much of it is. You know Joshua has a tendency to exaggerate a little bit. I think it doesn't sure but his but his I mean the crimes that he would commit over the next fourteen years, leading up to murders in Cheshire, were just enormous. I mean, even if only fifty percent of them were true, it was spent normal life of crime in an amazing life of crime. Hee hee

turns out. He said to me how easy it was to break into the house, so he started breaking into houses when he was twelve. He get on his bicycle, had had it go out the window of his bedroom like, like I said he get on get on his bicycle. He had a camouflage outfit that he sent away. Wife, You know like a male mail order, camouflage outfit. He had a dark skull. Cap later on. He bought night vision goggles you know from the back of a magazine like that. You know I mean I'm laughin, but I'm not it's not it's not funny it all. I don't. I don't mean I don't mean to diminish what what would happen, but did you can imagine this kid at twelve thinking that he was. You know the burglar, you know par excellence and he was he started breaking into houses by the dozens when he was twelve. He broke into houses all over this town of Cheshire and middle and Central Connecticut. He broke him to houses around the Pettit.

Neighborhood, where you know the murders would happen. Many years later, he by his own count broken to at least two hundred houses during his teens. Sometimes he wouldn't take anything he would go sit in the house. He said he in rota. This whole letter of explaining how it was being in a house with the people sleeping upstairs and them not knowing it was there and the feelings that he had had listened to the sounds of the house, the pipes, the house, settling the wind in the eaves, I'm innovation, really really creepy. He had this in a law. Long long explanation. Sometimes he wouldn't like. I said he wouldn't take anything. Sometimes it just take picture off the wall, just like screw with the people's minds a little bed. You know I mean it was something I mean obvious. There was a something was something was amiss here. Something was wrong

with his. You know with his psyche early on, but he didn't get caught. He wouldn't get caught. He. Finally, when he was about, I want to say sixteen years old, he started a fire in an abandoned car dealership in Cheshire and he got caught for that. An. Because he got caught for that. Some of the prior crimes came out either he gave it up himself or I'm not really sure how it happened, but he faced the first of a series of judges in his late teens that would, He had like a young, he had this. He has this

way about him. Now when I interviewed him, I saw a lot. You know it's that he comes across so likeable so polite so saw spoken. So you know that people wanted to believe throughout his life that there was something in there worth saving. You know there was something he has these were way of looking at you that that they have and innocence about it. You know and the and and he started to get brakes, get breaks. One judge after another gave him. You know you know put a in like the parents, the first time the first arrest rest apparent talk to judge into letting them I'm in a crutch, Christian Camp and he went into a christian camp and up up in New Hampshire and he spent some time up there and then he got caught for something else. In the judge said to him, you know why

you need some psychological help, so they put him in the cycle I deserve. It was mental hospital, but it was in the hospital for trouble, teens place for trouble, teens, but was in jail and then the third judge he got caught for something. The third judge said to him. You know either go in the army or now is nineteen either go in the army or will put you in jail, so he joined the army would ultimately go. Awol from the Army army reserves about a year less than a year later by me with so many missed opportunities early on where and in the meantime, a mass like an enormous number of burglaries in an end, the utopia we were looking the other way people kept thinking that there's something about this guy. That's that's not. You know the you know he's too nice of a boy to be worried about you know, but he was

you know he had already started to formulate a personality that wasn't it wasn't. A nice boy at all was in a nice way at all, so one of the things that you didn't talk about it. We could talk about a little bit later, but I think it's fair that at least fair to his character, not that I put that much weight on it. But but the fact is that again, all a lot of this stuff is coming from his perspective. He's telling you this so you have no way to really verify, but in the same instance, be fair. He says it at six years old that there was two more adopted children and there was an the boy yeah there's a right yeah. He rises not as molestation so enemies in it. He said right flat out rape and with torturers

for him, for I don't know how much time, maybe you can tell us a little bit about that because I mean, if there is anything if there's anything about his background, that seems amiss. This is really this really is it and it ended. It can be considered fairly well very serious, right. His idyllic background, considering considering what would happen on sorghum mill drive, which will talk about you know in a little bit, but considering what? send in the house that night yeah you're absolutely right. Then I mean it has a huge, huge and- and no doubt Joshua goes to trial next next year or early next year and a no doubt that's going to play a large part in the defence of him

and what you're talking about his mother, what it wasn't an adopted. It was a young for she brought into force to children, and one of them was Sir Joshua Mose, six or seven at the time, maybe even younger. I can't remember six six years old at the time and there was a boy and a girl of the forced, the children and the boy was sixteen and according to Joshua and it's the it's, the court records 'cause Joshua would would be arrested and when he was twenty two and in those records in testimony From that from that trial, he it came out that he had in fact been sexually assaulted. By by this, this forced to foster boy, you know and judge you write Joshua says, and I think the quote is merciless rape that he was in that it went on for months. You know,

there's no way I mean, even though it's court records this, I guess there's no way short of putting his parents, so I understand that you know I don't really know whether they were completely because it went on for so long to substantiate it coming. Lately, but there's you know- and I I think, there's there's also court records from psychiatry psychologists and what have you that interview? Josh was so it's pretty This is a pretty good chance that it actually occurred that he was right when he was five, a sex by the four by the older forced a boy. So you right in and the like. I said what what would transpire on sorghum will drive with good. Sir

only you know that that is certainly a huge huge part of his formative is formation as I as a year as as a human being, but also as an as a criminal, and, as you know, a criminal acts committed one of the most heinous crimes in Connecticut State history. Silly he right. Now the other four trader here the other character in this a man named Stephen, hey lot, more, a lot less interesting, but still for for the official record. Who is Stephen aid? Yes, even if they were like a mutton, Jeff combination I met on and they met in a half way out. Stephen haze, who is, is quite a bit older than John. What he was a lifelong criminal is first, the rest was in his early 20s

It was believe it was a drug arrest and then he would go on to have. I think, two thousand and twenty it's either twenty three of twenty six more arrests during his. Time, so he was habitual criminal. Mostly arrest had to do with them and drugs and money for dry. And what have you? He was no doubt by the time he met Joshua almost institutionalized because he had spent the large majority of us of his adult life behind behind bars. You know in a dozen or more different presence in Iraq in an arab state of Connecticut, so he would say

you know it in and endorse. His trial has already gone to trial and his trial. There was a lot came out about his childhood. It wasn't, it wasn't, leave it to Beaver it wasn't. You know the Huxtable's. By any stretch of the imagination, he had a rough childhood, his father was it. You know his father was in the wind orally apparently left the family and the mother, and you know they had it was. It was hard hard guard, dartle hard luck, life. You know that he had, but he did, and he also had two brothers who went on and the dead. Just fine, you know so it wasn't. You know that there is no excuse, therefore, the life

he chose an damn. You know like I said it was cut, it's kind of a boring story. I mean it's like it get out of jail. It's not. The work had start to smoke crack in the dead start to Stilton perpetuated, his habit and then get arrested and go back to jail, and that's that that was the life of Stephen hate. He met Joshua Halfway House, it's cool Stillman House leave and it was on one of the many times he was in the parole process being paroled out into the into the world, and I always say this that you know, however, you feel about. I mean there was so many there's so many parts about this crime that have like an evil or an element of the evil to attend the date that they met. Each other was kind

like one of those one of those things they met on June six, two thousand and six, which is six six six, and that there was a you know. It probably means nothing but at all so was gave me a chill when I saw the when I saw the date and they are there, hit it off right away. Haze was kind of a happy go lucky guy if he can be as it bears a lifelong convict and he he was the where Joshuah was kind of a quiet, quiet guy, but somehow they hit it off. They liked each other, and you know when they did end up going yeah, I mean being let out of flout the halfway house into the into the world. They they remain friends and at first they were rum. You know that would try and it looked by all appearances like they were trying

do you know, live the straight and narrow? You know clean and straight straight and clean life they both will go into cocaine anonymous meetings. They were run. They both but became Lloyd right away. They were doing some working for contractors. Joshua is putting roof son on houses, Asia. He got a job with this company. Haze was also do in other things, and so it looked for a very short time like they will. You know China. Actually, you know, there's a writer, You live their lives in a law abiding manner. So now what did they plan to do to you? He said you were working for a little bit. That was somewhat brief,

but what was their original idea? Well? Why did? Why did even hook? Up I mean Josh will like the guy and obviously pays was impressed with Joshuah. Very charismatic guy have very organized and besides Steve needed a break from Joshuah was there, thing. It itself like originally that the most it may Hayes could come up with some kind of robbery of some sort of some burglary knew that this guy could break in places. So what was? What was your research? What did you find was that at least their initial plan? Well, like I said initially, they were. They were working legitimately thing They were in a word: he's had a plant by his own. He was, he was borrowing cars. You didn't have a at borrowers, mom's car he was living with his mother in a small town, Cool Winston up, a number of Central Connecticut, not too far from Cheshire and there he had the bars

mom's, car and friends car, so we were saving up for a truck and part of his parole agreement was that he and have a place to stay and and his mom signed off on that an and Lord knows why she did because he had yet owed so many times before put her in a position where, where, where you know where he did, he didn't follow through on his promise. You know it's get high or something like that. So, but this time it looked like he was going to do the right thing. He had saved couple one thousand dollars to buy a car or or a truck, and he was paying his mom rent. I think- and you know he was he was trying to live the right thing, but then he was going to these meetings. He was going, he was staying, clean and sober, and but then he got high. I mean it was as simple as that, because all the sudden, the two or three thousand dollars that he had in the bank account was gone.

His mother, got wind of that. His mother found out about that and she gave him an ultimatum haven't been through this so many times before with him that he had to get out of the house. So now he was going to violate it all of his mother, throw him out of his house. That meant the violation of his parole. He was going to go back to jail, so that was his impetus to Poland. Now Joshua. On the other hand, had you know I told pays about his exploits? You know about how what kind of a burglary was- and we haven't talked about that, but he was it was. It was incredible, burglar and he was it. He was dead. You know where they used to call him cat burglars, but he could break into. Ah, he could break into anything. He knew how to disarm. Alarm system see new had again into the most fortified houses he did

he broke into businesses, he broke. He says that he was a hired to burglarize places, lawyers offices and stuff, like that he was just so. No doubt he was telling AIDS all of this, the stores when they were in half way out so I think it so the way, although this has didn't come out in the trial, but they're, probably command Joshua's trial. The way I see it, at least, is that the haze approach approached your Joshuah with the with the idea. Now he said he said to a man. You know why? Don't we do? Why? Don't we do a job together now by this time, Joshua who also had a history of drugs and a pretty pretty extensive history of drugs? I don't know whether Joshuah was using by this time by the time Hayes approached him with this. With this idea to pull a job together, but he must have been

I know that soon after he was at a party where he was drinking and that's an indication that maybe was not too far. If, if wasn't already back on drugs. So Joshua said yes, you know he said all right. What will pull a job together, but they. You know they had this idea. Joshuah it, I guess, says, put a dollar amount on it. He said he needed a big score. You know we had to get an apartment, he had to get it car or he was going to be sent back to jail. He was going to have to violate his parole. Were you know? Apparently they were. They were gonna do something that was Adam, even Joshuas, ordinary. You know they. They came up with an idea whether it was Joshuah and I'd. I'd have to believe it was Joshuah because he was infinitely smarter than Azan. What have you eat? He came up with an idea to take a family hostage. It was gonna break in

ass. It is going to be neutralize whatever had to be neutralized and he was going to Ty, whoever was up in the house and he was gonna, spend their time to ransacked the house for money and there. And what have you now? That's how it started. However, Joshua's motive for this crime wasn't just about money. If about

money at all. I think that he was more or less given. You know humoring Hayes about the about the idea to get you know to make that they would find this kind of money in a house, but I don't think that was Josh was motive at all and I'll talk about that. If you'd like yeah, well tell us Josh one of the person that winds up spotting the victim or picking the potential victim for his job idea, so there's a lot of credibility or a lot of credence to the idea that he's the guy that came up with it now tell us how we picked out the potential victims for this robbery idea. An tell us about who you think was the target

wasn't just about robbery and tell us why and and who this person was. Ok, the young, the crime at banana and treasure, and the murders and treasure happened on Sunday night Monday morning in a well actually was Monday morning. By the time they broken tonight's. The night before Hazan and Joshua had gone out looking to rob ass and they actually broke into two houses in Cheshire and end up, from the way. Joshua explains that the way it the court court ever information that came out through the trial has his trial. It was more a dry run, they were like Gay Joshua was the burglar Hayes. Was he wanted to see how Hayes would react going into the houses and stuff like that? He wanted to put him through his paces a little bit and that's what they did. They rob two houses the night, be I'm not saying that it wasn t, listen to people like those houses that they burglarize believe me. Them

breathing a slot sigh of relief that what happened on sorghum mill drive didn't happen to them. I'm not diminishing that at all, but but but could from Joshua's perspective. It was more, let's say: yeah, you know, like a dry run, he wanted to see how he would react under the pressure of robbing house etc such so they robbed two houses and they get. They got nothing that they stole a couple credit cards. They stole over some cash lying around some odds and ends not a lot of stuff. You know they did, however, take pictures from the house. You know them

the pictures of the house in the end and, I believe, a nice. They stole a knife out of one house, it was scary stuff, but it wasn't. Luckily it wasn't in or even close to what would happen. The following night, the following night: he Joshua had plans to meet haste to go out again, looking for a place to rob and that day either that afternoon maybe was the afternoon before Joshua to stop and shop or run a young, sporting goods store. He bought a pallet gun hand held a pistol pellet pistol. He bought rope closely rope. He bore zip ties, he boy other things to do that

then he would use. I saw the mill dry weather a couple masks as well. They made the masks, add of furs, ski ski, had net hacker but eyes, and that in order to cut eyes and in the end also didn't didn't actually by the mass, but they board, you know he bought other stuff, and he was Sir Joshua has a five year old daughter. She was five back then, when the crime happened so she's older now, and he is here Scott and custody of her now he was only out of jail. I mean haze was days was out of jail about a month. I think Joshua was out of jail out of the halfway house even less time, so these guys weren't weren't, oh no, no actual, Joshua

a little bit more time. So these these you know they were there. They hadn't been out in the population or let long but Josh was somehow had gun custody of is of of his five year old daughter from from her mother who is currently having drug problems at the time was in some rehab or something so well. He had custody of his five year old. He was living at his mothers house where he grew up in his mother and father's house and and before he met Hayes the night of the murders he gave his daughter a bath here. Bible stories stories. Putting tucked bed to bed her in doktor, put her to sleep, make sure she fell asleep and all the time is texting him. Saying you know come on: let's go, you know, I'm ready, Joshua's, texting them back, hold your horses and put in the kids to bed away and

You know considering what would happen several hours later. It's just it's just I Lloyd S, mind boggling, really his mind boggling. So so, finally, he ate the kid he puts his thought. His daughter goes to sleep. He also had a Joshua had a girlfriend who, when again Move to Arkansas and her father. You know why I partly I thank her for her father move the family, although I guess it wasn't. There had to be more than this, but to get away from him she was sixteen years old. Joshua had a series that the girl let the mother of his daughter was fifteen when in Preg Nated or he had a sixteen year old girlfriend. When the martyrs occurred, she had just move too often, so he was attracted to you

all my children, very, very young girls and right by this time, he's he's twenty six, so he's dating a sixteen year old, and now she moves to Arkansas, but they are she's on the computer, sending him pictures of herself and they're having cyber sex on on the phone. This is after, but he's got started to sleep and finally, he he gets dress dna and his mother said his mother said the police that, when I saw him put on the dark he had like a dog sweatshirt hooded sweatshirt. She said I know some when there was that

trouble that he was headed for trouble. You know and Josh will left the house left his daughter sleep, asleep his mother worried and got in the family fan and went to meet Hayes. Now I jumped ahead a little bit that afternoon. Before all of this happened, Joshuah was in the stop and shop parking Lot and Cheshire was about six hundred o'clock at night. He said he was waiting to get paid from contractor. You done some work for you supposed to meet him in the parking lot, while he's waiting there, the pet it family, car, Chrysler, Pacifica, pulls up right next door in the car is Missus Pett. It missus Jennifer, HAWK patent A doktor, pellets, wife, and there are eleven year old, daughter, Mikhail now. Michaela was tall for her age. Is she

She was eleven years old. I mean there's no getting away from that, but she was. She was taller than most of her peers and what have you and precocious and sound cu in the Joshua watched Michaela get out of the car and go into stop and shop? She was going to buy some groceries for dinner. That night she was cooking like I said she was a foodie, so she was cooking family dinner and he waited for them to get out of there. Do the shopping, get back into the family, Suv and Josh? We followed them to sort of mill drive. Now he saw the house. He said to me when I talk to him. He said the reason that he followed. The Pacifica was that, because the car said to him that the family had money now that's loaded.

This is just a Cheshire Connecticut, although it's not it's not them pop affluent town, you can imagine, it is very helpful and Chrysler Pacifica is that is, is it doesn't does say money in Cheshire CT? I mean you're talking about a a parking lot. That's filled with Mercedes and Bm w suvs. It's not. It doesn't say money at all, so that its attitude big holes and that in that excuse, Joshua have, but in so he had followed the he had followed the YAP Pacifica too PET at home, sorghum Mill, DR. He knew the area he had robbed houses in the area when it there, when he was just twelve years old, one thousand two hundred and fourteen years old, so later on. When he picks up pays when he meets Hazy S Joshua, do you have any ideas and Joshua says yeah? I do so

they went out and they went to a bar and they did some drink and they went. They looked for houses to rob up by this far in Bristol CT, which is about fifteen miles north of Cheshire and then about three hundred o'clock in the morning. Joshuas it come on. Let's go to a place that I wanted to go to and they drove back to Cheshire, CT and on. It was two hundred and thirty three o'clock. I don't want it on to sorghum mill DR and yet I saw the mill drive that time of the night beacon here, a pen drop by minutes, the most it's it's. You know the quintessential quiet, suburban block and they rolled up in front of the house were a couple of houses down from it. They put it. Masks on. They walked along the gravel street paved, but there was loose gravel on it. I was on the street to his loose gravel on. You know you can imagine if their feet crunching on the ground,

and then they went up alongside the house up the driveway and Josh notice. The light on in the porch is an enclosed porch and there was a man sleeping on the couch who was stock to pet. It Josh would told Hayes wait in the shadows and the trees. It is nodded away in a little bit and national went around the back and ass. They were bulkhead doors. He opened a bulkhead doors and was able to Jimmy Don Door into the basement, open he, He had a small little flashlight with him. He swept it, swept the basement with the light and sound saw a young Louisville slugger, all bad at the foot of the stairs. He climbed up the stairs, and now this guy he was as selfish.

You know I mean I read, nobody was gonna, hear him come in, come in walking on on the floor or anything like that. He was able to sneak up to the couch we back the pet. It slept. He he raised the bat and any any told me that he swung it ass hard ass. He could he hit thought depended on the head ass, hard ass. He could now is this man would play golf that afternoon, at a family dinner is two daughters and his wife, a sleeping upstairs. Not I mean it read it. It had to be like this is the system,

what movie that could have ever played in it and was so unlikely that something like this could happen to this man Joshua hidden about Joshua him about six times, five or six times ass, hard ass. He could back the pet. It has some kind of a heart disorder and he was on the stuff coumadin, which is a blood thinner. So there was blood everywhere. Joshua told me that the blood was all over the young all over the room and all over him and all of it back to panic, but that Tibet it didn't die. He was able to judge, was set em up on it on the bed and told them exactly what he was gonna dose in open, tied him up and down, send Eli Hayes into the house, and once that happened they had control over the house and then so, and he asked the doctor peta2. It was amazing that he got whacked a s six times as hard as Joshua could and then it got him up and said, listen

who is in the house who want to know what they're out or Yahoo a judge who said he was worried about that. He knew he knew the girl. The girls were asked what he thought. Maybe there was in a way they had a son said he said to me was worded. It was a thirteen year old. I mean it's eighteen year old wrestler in the house, or something like that. So he was worried about that. But then emanates walked up the stairs. You know and they first went into the elder daughters, room Hayley, walk her up in the hands of the mouth, so wouldn't scream, and you know they had the pistol. So you know doctor, but it was tide. Of course they tied him up gagged them. They had the pistol, so it looks like a real gun. You know the pellet gun looks like a real gun, somebody, somebody that doesn't know and have enabled they able to tie Hayley up with the to the bed and dad find her hands, and then they walked into the

ass, the bedroom, where Michaela had gone to sleep with her mother and they woke the mother and an Michaela up and they also tied them. They brought Mikhail him back to her bedroom and tied her to the bednar bedroom. Now they had the family held hostage just like that, just like that they had dominion over the house what they do next. Well, I mean they were in the house for six hours, and you know at some point: Joshuah got the came across across a cheque book eminent they ransacked the house. I mean not not the, but I mean pulled out drawers and look for money and stuff like that. At some point, Joshua Soria check

the count the money in it, and I guess he came up with the idea then that they were gonna, bring Missus Pett at the bank and withdraw money from it, and you know to wait till nine o clock and want it so that they got an assets that three yet six hours that they were in this house. Can you imagine the tower this family, these these girls? You know when throw away with thinking and. You know at some point Joshua Centre Haze out for a room for her to Philip. They found them a gallon when you're wiper fluids, containers in the garage and emptied the fluid out of containers, and he sent haze to a gas station. So as soon as that. As soon as they made that move, they had united, that nobody was going to live in that house. You know I mean there was a whole lot of things said in the trial that you know they were going to

Take the family out of the house and burn the house down for dna evidence and stuff like that, but that's all that's all nonsense as soon as they soon as he's went to the gas station, they had made up their minds that they were going to kill everybody in the house. You know and when Hayes was at nine o clock in the morning. Had things started to really spin spiral out of control, dissented like a hell, haze, broad, broad, MRS Pettit, to the to the bank at at nine hundred o'clock in the morning. Now it's raining pretty hard outside. Why call he's in go into the bank with MRS Petre Joshua within Mikhail his room? He struck her. He took pictures of her naked with his some with a cell phone. He had

at least he at least sexually assaulted. Her, although in the haze is trial, it came out that in fact it wasn't, it was much more than just a. Joshua told me that he masturbated on honour in Jesus trial. It came out that it was much worse than that to an eleven year old girl bound and died on her bed.

Apparently, he took pictures of fairly to the eighteen year old girl. When Missus Pett came back from the bank, even haze raped and strangled her. She was the first murder them that morning and then they took the gasoline and spread it all overly up the main floor of the house. All the way up the stairs around the beds with the girls were the girls watched them. You know the girl saw them poor gasoline around. I met this whole time doctor, but had it is still according to his testimony,

go in and out of consciousness, they had moved amid the seller and tied him to a post in the cellar. So he wasn't, he was, he didn't, have an eye view. First person. You know a clear view of what was going on. He heard things up in the house, but he he really didn't know and them then either pay so dry and now in the meantime, oh, I forgot that this is the passport. The year Missus Pett it well she's taken fifteen thousand dollars out of the bank rights on the back of the of the witch oral slipped, my family he held hostage in my house and that that

she is able to tell the teller that they're not gonna harm my family, if you don't call the police and of course, the bank manager right away, notifies the police, the Cheshire police come on. You know the cavalry comes to the house in the end. They they their response was criticized in, and I- and I believe rightly so- I mean they spent so much time trying to get just the right equipment. You noticed swipe team, you talkin about it I don't know what twenty men police force and Cheshire CT and they put helicopters in the air and everything and as securing the perimeter. In the mean time, the people lead trying to save, is still alive but wouldn't be for very long. You know

so they had a house surrounded and either Joshua, always let the match and dropped them action both in him ran out, allows there were caught. They have a young. The house went up in flames in inferno. You know you can imagine you know, I mean it was passed with gasoline. You drop the match the House one up like a like a tinder box and Hazan Joshua Report. There was a roadblock at the end. The sword saw the mill drive, they tried them run right through they told the corner. There were in the past it added Suv trying to make their escape, and that

and you know they were they were apprehended. You know one hundred and fifty yards from the house, so you know they didn't get far. But by that time the house was just an infernal, and you know they said that they heard the girls scream and neighbors heard the girl screaming, and you can only imagine the horror that would happen. Doctor Pettit was able to escape. He was able to get out of the house, he crawled through the basement, bulkhead doors hopped the two way than neighbour's house next door. He said, actually he testified at the trial. Now hey this is the this trial was just just culminated. Just finished in Hays was sentenced to

yeah, yeah, yeah haze was sentenced to death, the first the death sentence, and you know of probably fifteen years. There was an execution in two thousand and five, but that fellow, was that the criminal ascends ten years before Sinhala it's the first sentence in a long time and dash was trial, occurs in early February or MID February actually begins. So, and you know this probably a very good chance that he's going to be sentenced to death also, so you might have a double execution in Connecticut. First time ever maybe right right. Well, this incredible tale

Now, we've only got a few minutes, but you know if, if you can, we can go a little bit longer, because I, what I found really fascinating was from the interview that you pointed me too, was that I've seen this myself and there have been a few other authors. I talk to Nick Prawn from the lethal marriage, both Bernardo Homolka case. She and he said the same thing happened to him where people were really critical. That surprised him, but he said he had quite a few people. Collingham exploitive, maybe tell us about your experience. Uh I thought was interesting. The response from doctor had it too, as well yeah I mean the book came out and the book was big, because I- and now I had three ended we're. Not only did I carry on this letter of correspondence with back and forth for over over three months I had two hundred a handwritten pages that that he sent me so I had an enormous amount of access to his life and what happened that night in the crime in and then

not only that he invited me to come up and and and interview, and this is much years before his trial. You know I mean, and the Department of Corrections did ask me what I was doing. Who I was, and I put my name on a visitors. Listen and next thing. You know I'm interviewing Joshuah Commissar Jeske an eye for an eye. Had three face to face interviews with them in in in the maximum security prisoners being held, so I had all of this information and it was an caused quite a stir in Connecticut, because the book came out before the trial and they thought it was going to it was going to you know, because so much of it Joshua story that it said it said that it was like you know, was going to help the defense. You know what that is, that that that it was going to show what's impaled him in a sympathetic light. Sure, do actually nothing could be further from the truth. I just call it the way it was. I meant it wasn't an added. I don't, I don't believe it, but it just tells his lifestyle.

In fact he had every advantage. You know I'd like I said before, that we didn't didn't come from a bad background that all you know so so when the book came out, I got it was just a firestorm action, mostly from people, and you know in in the neighborhood, in the area of Cheshire Connecticut, but it was violent, it was vitriolic. I had phone calls and letters and emails and calling me everything under the sun saying that I was worse than the criminals that I deserve worse than what they get and it was pretty. It was really personal. It was a very personal thing and you know they question my motives and my you know call me you know I thought I'd like you said an opportunist, and you know all of this stuff in, and none of that was anything of it was a new story to me I was I was covering it as a new story. You know it was.

It was a horrible crime and it was a terrible thing that happened, but it's a new story and it deserves to be written about it. That deserves to be covered in just because I got in to deal with a guide. I was my fault. What was I going to turn it down those? No! No! I'm not going to interview him. You know I'm not going to interview the one of the only two people. Surviving that had a first hand view of what happened I mean doctor petty to but doctor better, but it was in the basement, but there's only two people alive. That could tell you what happened inside that house and I talked to one of them. You know what I'm going to say: I'm not going to use that, of course, I'm going to use it, so So I mean you could go on Amazon dot com and see that you see today that this, like, I don't know how many reviews that Robert, that is quite a substantial amount of reviews and in like ninety five percent of them, are the worst possible review

really what but ninety percent of them are. They didn't read the book they did in the Balkans. More than ever in their critique in there and there were reveal what a buck. How dare this person do that and have their own do them in you know I mean you know you can understand in it. They needed to be mad at somebody. You know this was that this was ripped the whole in this community up. It was just such a bad bad crime in all and they needed somebody they manner than I came along and I was the target, no doubt about an and doktor pet it. You know I have nothing but respect and an enormous amount of empathy for the man I mean. Can you imagine what you can imagine what he went, but he was vocal about the book he made. No, no secret have been won over his points. Now I mean what specifically, what what what did he say?

Well, I did he criticize it well, I got a call from the victims advocate right before the book came Now I'm there was literally like a week before the book came out and the victims advocate asked me to hold off on publishing the book until after the trial- and I said you know, I don't think I can. First of all, I'm the author, you know how it is. You know this is a whole machinery goes into a fact. You know these books get printed and you know it's like it's like once the writer. Said that in its attitude I Angelo southern publisher. Yet that which is what I told him to talk to the publisher

I think she did she. You know when I am, I said, listen I'll call my editor I'll. Do what you know, because I didn't have you no, I mean yes, I knew it was gonna, be sensational, n, N, n n in the context of Connecticut. Wasn't a big story, I'm in a book, then so much better selling books out therein, but in Connecticut this was the biggest story for for a month. My book, you know what I mean it was front page Hartford, current news for weeks. You know, so it was big big stuff in Connecticut, and I knew that was going to get that reaction, but I didn't care I would have held off on it. I would've said alright, you know I'll wait till after the trial. You know I'll wait, but my polish polish should solve differently. They said no, no way we're going to capitalize on this, so the book came out

and the euro at their head. He did. It did inhabited upset the trial process because they were going to try Joshua Conversor Jeske first and because the book is so laden with information about him, they decided to try his first. So in that sense it did cause a problem, but it was also day. They also said it was gonna taint. The jury. People hate the Jericho. Can you imagine I mean that the fact that the matter is that that they insisted that I guess Doktor Putnam pointed to the prosecutor insisted on going for the death penalty here so that both haze and commerce suggestion will gonna plead guilty to life without parole. They won't gotta content.

I'm gonna go to jail for the rest of their lives, but the prosecution said. No. We want these guys. We want we want. We want a sense that that so because it out they have a trial that gets covered coverage. World wide coverage, absolute world, I've got the pet it's gonna be on operate tomorrow afternoon I mean the the the key interest in this than the coverage of this thing was just insane and in every more detail about what happened to the eleven Euro, Mikhail sister, Hayley and Jennifer HAWK, and it was played all over the newspapers all over everywhere. I mean it was just a you. Couldn't you couldn't you couldn't look at this, the testimony in evidence that was presented at this time and that because of the decision by the prosecutor- and I would imagine doktor pet it to go for the death penalty, so the fact that a matter that my book was gonna hate it

people can you imagine that then try to get a jury for the next trial for Joshua trial? Now it's gonna be mean who's, not gonna in Connecticut. It's not gonna, know about this case and know about all of the in also so you know, I guess that was that was doktor pedants thought about it. You know it You know him here too. I think he needed somebody to be mad at you know, and you know, if that's, if that's the way, it is that's fine with me. You know, because No, I just like I said I don't you know. I never wanted to hurt this man and I thought I portrayed his family with dignity and respect in my book. No. I did I went out of my way to do. I mean it was nothing wrong. There was not a bad there to do it anyhow, but I was not a buddy. I did not sensationalize and I tried to be is as high as in October to put them in the light

they deserved a night, and I think I did so well. You know what you know, what I'm gonna. Do it, sir? you know said so that That's how that played out- and let me let me ask you a couple questions here about this specifically. As you know it because I was involved in it are cases are similar. This is some parallels anyway. I provided evidence. I had a correspondence with the killer for a year and this was well before the trial well well before trial. But in my particular case he had said he had passed out, didn't remember any anything of the commission of the crime, but as despite that, even there was other evidence. Documentary evidence was given to me. So I in turn contacted police. Now was any part of the criticism and was there was about that that you potentially could have had some

evidence. I mean you're talking about the only living witnesses. So when Joshua talks about haze, Hayes talks, actual Joshua was there any things like that and did you have any responsibility to go to authorities and it was there any criticism because you didn't and you acted like a journalist and just held back the information. Tell me if there was anything like that. In your particular you're absolutely right, then I mean there was I mean Joshua did focus some of the blame on Hayes and Hayes with turned around in his trial and blame Joshua for it. You know what I mean. There was a lot a lot of it about you, don't miss had it now. There was dna evidence that that absolutely aids are raped me and then he admitted the killer in court. So you know there wasn't a lot of stuff, but but where my hands the tide was, there was a gag order on this own honor

and everybody involved. So the police couldn't talk to me. The lawyers couldn't talk to me. Hayes didn't wasn't going to talk to me, so there was nobody I could go to who to corroborate Joshua story. You know there was nobody. I could go to to say well, what's what your side, because they could not they would they would they wouldn't they couldn't they couldn't talk to me so you're so, but but that said, you know I gotta watch the weight Joshua, the narrative of the crime plays almost to the to the note the way the prosecution portrayed the clock

right, but the prosecutions narrative in there in the portrayal of the crime and court was like they were written. My book I sweat work. There was lying just there was just like a few points where it very you know, but all add things about Joshua Doktor petted about to tighten up the girls about going out for the gasoline. I'll get about. You know. Josh was rolling the house being being naive. The alpha of this of this duo all of this stuff that that I already information I got from Joshuah substantial, substantiated by the prosecution. You know so you know he would he was. He proved to be a credit card, a credible le source. He was a credible source Joshua. Now he never copped. He never admitted to killing anybody. He said that he didn't

He didn't want anybody to die in the house and stuff like that, and that's where his story starts. Lose those its validity, because there is no doubt that that you know he was he was. It was his plan d Everybody in the house. I have no doubt I don't. I don't doubt that for a second, why does he not z? How does he argue against the gas clean around the beds? Where did you get that information and how does he? How does he argue against that? I mean can't hit the inn, and I asked him about it now now, I'm in I'm in when I'm when I'm interviewing it's not like I'm interview, I am on a phone or over you know it's over coffee. At Starbucks I mean he's in a maximum security prison, it's being taped. He knows it's being taped. I know it's very. It's like, I can't I can't be at

blunt in my or nor can I guess I could be as blunt as I want, but he's not calliope as as forthcoming in his answers as as as he might have might have been, because, even though he said to me, I don't care, he said. I know they're going to execute me and I don't care. I want to die and hey said the same thing you know Hayes has said the same thing, but they both they both criminals and they're, both liars by nature. You know so so you know. I think that he got to the point where it where he could have said: yeah you're right, I dropped the match and I die what if fire go up around the girls and I ran out of the house, but he never said he wouldn't say that to me, but it was it was. You know it was it was her, but I mean it's pretty certain that that that happened in any doubt played the rate motive to you. You had said to that it seemed all you gotta do slide,

really that's. There was something else to it, other than just robbery by the targeting with Michaela, and but he denied that. So that's another thing that he denies. Even though yeah you're right and there's a body of evidence that says that it's absolutely what happened, I mean he's he's borderline he's a borderline that file I mean he. He said you know. I only mentioned two hundred and sixteen year olds, but he's got oh history of it seems like he stopped maturing in his excuse. Me is sexual appetite when he was sixteen, because he had a girlfriend who was sixteen when he was sixteen and then he stopped dating anybody older than sixteen until he was twenty six and arrested the last time. You know I want to ask you to when you were criticized. I'm just very fascinated by this. Was it who were the main criticize

Who was a member of the public like I again like that? But where did what was the police department at all? I was the district at night? Or did I get credit said? Well, I gotta tell you in any in the trial the hazel trials. Something came up on it. You know. You know why it is a little elaborate to tell a story about how much time we have, but I, but I was embarrassed, but they met they had they actually introduced as evidence in the. In the end, a penalty phase of hazy trial. He had been found guilty, and then it goes to penalty phase where, where they decide, whether put him to death in the door and the penalty phase, they used letters that Joshua had written to me because they had copied they every department, aggression, copies all the letters, so they had letters they introduced that source material into the trial

and they said things at that time that were that put me in a very bad light, as a journalist has, as a human being and and in cork came up so end in an had nothing to do with pays. Whether Hayes was should be put to death in that, and I'm absolutely certain that it was. Until the two to humiliate me, because I think that I had put the department corrections, I mean they came out. Looking you know that they let me in there to do it We have this guy three times. You know that they, let all that they. Let me carry on this correspondence with this guy. This is, without a doubt, the highest profile criminal in Connecticut in twenty years, I mean without it down nobody's even close. Second, you know and they absolute they'd. It was like visiting a relative, I mean I had such access, but his guy and and and no doubt ruffled ruffled those kind of feathers

and that the book came out before the trial. I think because Doctor Pettit was such is such influential presents up there and he really really was you know during the trial, and what have you I think, but you know I think they went out of their way to to to embarrassment. You know- and you know, I think that you know I probably I'm still. There is still an investigation going on then a supposedly an open investigation by the attorney general's office and to me and and how I got into visit Joshua you know, and yet that I misrepresented myself that there was a there was other things that came up that were discussed in trial. Like I said, if you want me to talk about it, be more than willing to it's going to take a little time to explain it, though, and you know so I don't know. What's going to happen, I might even be subpoenaed because for because Josh

it was trial because I'm the only journalist to have interviewed him, I mean I'm probably outside of his lawyer, the only person that has this kind of information that you know so well. What one last question, if we could go on for another couple hours, but I get more fascinate us then maybe the audience, but but anyway, what I wanted to ask was that the correspondence is copied by the Department of corrections. You were saying: yes, it is ok, but did they alert the authorities, the district, where those I'm sure goes right, not another? When, today, what did you come first or debate already? What is that an ongoing thing? And I find it strange they would let you have this correspondence. Meanwhile, they let you win seemingly they did not know you were yeah yeah yeah. Well I mean you know you could could very easily paint acons.

Percy theory. Out of that I mean there's no doubt about it, but I don't think it I mean my my sense of it. My the way I see you know haven't been, but you know what principle in this in this whole thing is I don't I don't. I think it was just an oversight on their part. I think they just they just dropped the ball. I don't think the moonlight, and I agree with you. I agree with you and I think they dropped the ball, but at the same time I just wanted to get that one factor that information from you develop Department of corrections, unlike in my case the department aggression, did not copy any the writ material would record, they would record visits by. So I knew that when I did so to to get around that, he sent me information via letter and they didn't copy those letters. So I thought it was interesting that you said that the Department of Corrections would record, all those letters or keep copies of those letters, but it seems like just to me that they didn't catch wind of what was going on till you came into the pic.

Sure and then came forward, and then I say all this: we better go back there like this Some people may read a letter and some people may really read a letter. If you yeah, you know Anna and I'm not one hundred percent sure that they copied all of it. You know what I mean, maybe they only copied. You know I can't because in in the in court, if it's court testimony is any indication in court. They said that I had written. Were a half a dozen or eight letters that Joshua wrote to me in, that's, that's not right did John. I wrote a book movement more than twenty letters to me. So much Maybe they didn't, maybe they didn't do their job in that regard either. Maybe they didn't call it probably caught on late, just like when they finally caught on and you were refused visit, so for that very voices, the horse was added a born. By that time I mean he had told me he had given me just about everything. First in the first half a dozen letters

I know just about the whole story, so you know I mean it was like. I said after after the fact. Yeah, it's very interesting. Well, I want to thank you bro, for this very, very fascinating interview and about a great book and a great story that still continuing as we can see, that is trials not even till next year. You said time- and I don't know if I'm a predictor of anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if they call your name up and have you been yeah. I wouldn't even even somewhat because those letters are much better in any confessional ever ever be it's. You know it's much better when the perpetrator said this and it's written the Irish, no evidence for sure, but anyway, thank you text Brian. I really appreciate it to people to listen to sort of program have been listening to Brian Mcdonald with his book in the middle of the night, the shocking true story of a family killed in cold blood,

the middle of the night. Thank you very much, Brian Mcdonald, for coming on the program and great interview. Thank you very much. Thanks Dan have a good evening. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, even listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the opposite of written about them. With your host dance good evening. Are you hungry for the usual today or are you ready to spice things up with the new Nashville hot brisket from firehouse subs? Where kicking up our slow smoked, beef brisket with Nashville hot seasoning, it's topped with melted pepperjack and are sweet and tangy slaw served piping hot on a toasted corn, bread, roll yeah are corn bread, roll save time order. Your new Nashville hot brisket on the firehouse subs app today, firehouse subs enjoy more subs, save more lives, participating locations, limited time only

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