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you are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening and disturbing memoir innocence, coercion, survival and Healing Diane Lake chronicles her years with Charles Manson, revealing for the first time

time how she became the youngest member of his family and offering new insights into one of the twentieth century's most notorious criminals in life. As one of Charlie's girls. At age, fourteen Diane Lake is little more than a note in her pocket from our hippie parents. Granting her permission to leave them became one of Charlie's girls, a devoted acolyte of cult leader, Charles Manson, over the course of two years. The impressionable teenager, injured, manipulation, psychological control and physical abuse as the harsh realities and looming darkness of Charles Manson's. True nature revealed itself from spawn ranch in the group acid trips to the Beatles White, Album and Manson's dangerous Messiah, Complex Diane tells the

living story of the group's descent into madness. As she lived it, though, she never participated in any of the groups, gruesome crimes and was purposely insulated from them. Diane was arrested with the rest, the Manson family and eventually learned enough to join the prosecution's case against them. With the help of good Samaritans, including the cop who first arrested or later later adopted her the Keurig. This young woman eventually found redemption and grew up to lead an ordinary life. While much has been written about Charles Mann, this riveting account from an actual family member is a chilling portrait that recreates in vivid detail one of the most horrifying and fascinating chapters in modern american history. The book tour featuring this evening is member of the family, my story of Charles Manson Life inside his cult and the darkness that ended.

60s with my special guest author Diane Lake, welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, Diane Lake. Thank you, I'm happy to be here Thank you very much incredible fantastic wow is all say about this book. Let's start right from the very beginning, as you do in this incredible book, your father's name to Clarence and your mother, surely, and you were born in nineteen fifty three. The first child in Minnesota tell us a little bit about your life growing up with your father and your mother, and then your two siblings tell us a little bit about your early life in Minneapolis.

I had a pretty normal childhood, we went, we went to church, I went to school. I grew up in the Midwest so and my dad was a veteran, my mom, a homemaker, and then my dad got turned on to the counter culture in the 60s, and we ended up in Santa Monica living out of a br truck few years later. It was a real shock for me. I I wanted to live a normal life now with this counter culture, for those people that are going to tune in that. That is, is something in the history book. We we have to talk about the personality of your father, which really dictated what happened with your family and also some of the things that you experience when you were young made you or influenced you or made you

valable, for situations that arose later so tell us a little bit about what this this philosophy of counterculture, what things your father and then your mother adopt did and which led to your eventual. As we alluded, this separation from your parents at a very young age, my father, my father, was started reading in when we still lived in Minnesota, Jackie, Black and I'm not sure he was reading Timothy Leary then. But you know KEN Kizi, the kind of the beatnik generation that was happy in California and he wanted to go there and he talk my mom into giving up our house and moving into a trailer back then to make to make it to Berkeley and that didn't

that didn't workout. So he he stayed in Minneapolis. And we lived in a like a travel trailer for awhile. Now with this. This idea that You talk about in the book that you had a house, you had all this normal, seemingly normal life with deer, next door, neighbors, Jen and Joan, and you had this seemingly normal life and you enjoyed the structure of school and then your your dad had the idea that the mortgage was a hassle and part of the staff. Bush Minton a noose around somebody's neck per say, and then they traded their home for a house trailer. Didn't they correct that was back in Minnesota. You know my neighbors, Jan and Joan are my best friends, Jana John. That didn't happen until in Santa Monica. But yes, he he did trade

our house for a trailer and then the car wouldn't pull the trailer and So you know he was kind of frustrated, I think, but we made we made the best of it and you know went on. He was an artist also did help painting and at some point in our life around fourth grade my Father his studio burned down and he got depressed and he he left my mom and us and went to California and two years later we got back together with him in Santa Monica and that's when the counter culture started to really kind of creep. In and

no, probably isn't sixty seven early, sixty seven late, sixty six, he was done. He was listening to Timothy Leary and who was you know advocating that everyone should take acid. Or lsd. My mom dot turned on brought home to my dad and my dad in you know, in reaching out to the art community reached out to the Oracle of LOS Angeles and. Met up with the Oracle com unit was not only I

underground, you know newspaper, but it was also a commune. So he did, he did do some artwork and his his name is listed in the credits under artist in quite a few of the magazines or the newspapers you talk about, I mean sorry go ahead and that's where he got the idea that we should turn on tune in and drop out, which was a you know, a Satan back them What was incredible in this book to his is the the dynamic of your family and how you were raised in this family, especially at this young age being fourteen years of age. You talk about Marijuana use you talk about LSD, use, you talk about your father,

turn on the music. So tell us that, like the circumstances that just to demonstrate this unusual family that you had your father offers you L as the and marijuana and some of the ideas that they're discussing with you at that age. My father was, you know the one that suggested I you know. Well I mean you didn't make me, but he suggested I try Alice Teen, provided it, and I took it with my best friend when we read that the really the Baton book of the dead, and that was different, but this is the 60s and I won't be oldest very you know, intelligent independent and what fourteen year.

Older what thirteen year old doesn't think they know it all. You know, they are capable of doing it all. I don't need my parents anymore kind of attitude and it was just the culture around me. You know my friend thought it was awesome. You know that I was you know. My parents were ok with me taking lsd and smoking marijuana and um, and then, when they talked about dropping out, my friends were like wow and you don't have to go to school anymore. You had reservations, though, about this entire thing, because you had that two years away from your father and this what you considered relative, even though that was not the kind of affluence or the kind of luxury that you had before with the stability.

That, even though this bite that less income you felt stable and so that you say in the book that there was always sort of this restlessness that soon as seen, things seem to be somewhat stable and maybe the way you would like to have your family that there was this restlessness, and you talk about part of this also, this communal life, this philosophy that your parents believed in there was another reality to it- that you got to see even at an early age being real attentive, and that was the Oracle the entire Oracle basically Commune had to be had to move and relocate into your home, correct yeah. They not sure which happened first. Is they moved in with Us B? they weren't able to stay where they were staying or. The oracle-

I don't really making it because I think there were only like nine issues of the Oracle, so yeah, a good part of the commune moved in to our house in Santa Monica and that's where they kind of got the idea. Oh, let's drop out, you know, let's buy these br trucks and fix them up this campers and you know we're going to go on the road, and so that's how it kind of got started. You talk about your dissatisfaction as well. That's very complicated because your parents want you to grow up. It seems like you right

faster than you might have wanted, and the assume that you can take care of yourself? And there are you talk about certain events where you just have to make your own way home from say, concerts and things like that, and they trust they're, very trusting parents in a very trusting time and use, as you write in the book that there's a all kinds of instances that could have went awry quite right, somebody that was as and, as you were now, you also will talk about right. I I was very, I was very blessed to be protected. You know by a higher power, I you know, b ' 'cause. I did pass through a lot of times that could have been you so and even though I ended up with Charles Mann one. You know that's one instance on the

was able to make it out of that as well. You know and survive his manipulation. You talk about at that time so that your parents were espousing and, along with other people, you talk about all kinds of people. It was a Messiah masonic time type of time at People were looking for a Messiah. They were looking for something else, a message, a purpose to their life, but part of this part of the philosophy that your parents were interested in and other people were espousing as well. Was this freedom this sexual Liberation, so somebody that's coming into their own at your age, there had to be some confusion. There had to be some influence, tell us a little bit about

some of the things that you are at least listening to and then, as a result, exploring as part of this philosophy. Part of this counter culture? Well, the counterculture really was not. In two thousand and didn't take into consideration a sexually active under age. Female I mean they were espousing. You know, Jackson, you know was okay. You know drugs, or at least hallucinogenics, but the reality was that you know I was too young. I was too young to make those kinds of decisions, but because of the culture that was happening then, and because of my own, you know seemingly capable intelligence,

and I can do it myself attitude and I was the first born so. And this is the new age, so they thought that I had it to. You know that I had it together, but I really didn't Sunday night. I didn't know people live. I was very trusting and it was you know not. Okay. I mean my. Gran father had you know, introduced me to you know how babies are made at a at a young age where I didn't know how they we're really made, and he he definitely took advantage me. He didn't. You know there was no penetration, but there was. He definitely

took advantage and covered it by saying he was. You know that I was old enough to know how babies were really made so and then my mom, when we were alone, without my dad anyway. She just felt like I was old enough do not need a kiss goodnight, and that was kinda hurtful and then you know I didn't. We went to the Elisian Park, love in an they. They left me. Because I didn't come back as soon as they thought. I guess I should and it really is. I remember it wasn't that late and I was just really shocked that they had actually like left me there, and these are things that you know they didn't do to hurt me, but they did

it hurt me and it just made me feel less affection. You know I mean they they do show me a lot of. I mean they just weren't. You know affection and then being kind of parents then, No, they had their own issues, and so I ended up. You know having sex with an early age, because I wanted the attention and the affection, and that's just how those me for Mets, and I was taken advantage of I I needed. I needed love and affection, not necessarily sex, but in order for the love and affection to common. This is. I think this still occurs. A lot today

with young girls is that we we don't know that you know guys are gonna. We want the love and affection, we don't necessarily want to have sex with them, but thank you right get over that whole love and affection part and goes right to you know fat applying their sexual needs. You talk about in a chapter, you called note that there are a couple named Linden. Ronald and again, you say you're vulnerable and you want attention and and people your age are seems from everything you write your much older than your years at that time, from based on the circumstances, there is a couple people that a couple Linden, Ronald

I've been living in communes and they know your parents and they have a all child, so tell us about Linden, Ronald and how it comes that you get. This note, basically permission to be able to live with them. Tell us about the situation and how this situation after your parents give the go ahead. It becomes something quite a bit different. We had moved into the bread truck born down the road and it wasn't easy living. And basically you know it's like a: U P S side, step up, ma'am right yeah, my father had converted to camper. You know my dad was very clever and you know very handy, and so you know it was. I'm really nicely laid out thing, but five people living in a bread truck is is not easy and I just wanted to help, and I was making breakfast and my mom. You know criticize me for

You know the way I was flipping the pan takes or whatever and that just that was like the last straw I walked out of the band went down to the beach. There was little boy swinging. He wanted some to push in my push them and I met Ronald and Linda introduce them to my parents. And you know they invited us to come and stay where they were saying on an acid trip. I felt that God spoke to me and said it's time for you to be home. I talked to my parents about this and they wrote me the note, and so I stayed with Ronald and Linda and we ended up having hi I sex with Ronald and then Windows joined us basically, and my parents went on on there. You know on their trip minus me

and they had given me a note that basically served permit And for me to be an emancipated minor, which was a legal document, I mean there, there existed a legal document that would say that this was not the legal document. This is just a note in my pocket and they considered to me for me to be like their love me and then it seems very innocent and loving and. At the time you talk about important, healthy two year old. No, you talk about a couple places locations that are quite important to the story, one of them being the spiral staircase house.

I'll tell you a bit about who who would frequent this place to tell us a little bit more about the spiral staircase house for actually lived with Ronald and Linda. We moved into the spiral staircase how and lived there for a time, and then my parents came back around and asked me if I'd like to go to big sur with them. So I went to big sur with them. Less left, Ronald and Linda went on mixer went as one I met somebody in at another. You know young young man in his early 20s, but maybe two old for me to be. You know sexually involved with, but anyway I ended up going to San Francisco with him, and

that didn't work out very well ended up getting really sick and take me back to big sur and left Lee with some of his friends, and I was able to get well and then I hitchhiked back to last Louis and found that my parents were now living at the Hog Farm and Ronald and Linda were also living there. So I was not. I didn't, feel welcome there I mean my parents didn't my parents have given me my freedoms. So in their eyes I was just you know and uh yeah with their daughter, but they didn't really and me, like. You know anyway, so.

I didn't feel welcome the the leaders of that Connie and had made to feel unwelcome by saying that I was jail bait and if I want to live there, I need to sleep in the attic and so then a couple of friends of the people of the call farm who weren't living at the hot form, but they came by and They invited me to come, live with them and there was nothing untoward about that. I mean you know it. We weren't having sex, they just took me under their wing and they introduced me to Charlie. But hey, we want you to meet somebody groovy. They took me to the spiral staircase house and it was like. Oh I just to live here. You know I lived here with Ronald and Linda, and

walk in the girls run up to me Cc Diane's here uh, oh, it was it. You know I wanted. It was like it was like magic I mean it was so special. How did these people I didn't know how these people knew me, but they knew me they recognize me. Oh we've been looking for you. Well, it turned out that back then Charlie was known as black bus, Charlie and he'd made a couple of trips up to the hog farm and had become you know, friends with my mom and dad, and I wouldn't at that point I was in San Francisco and he was going to go to San Francisco so what they, apparently they gave him like picture. You know if you're you know if you're going to San Francisco. This is a picture of our daughter. You know, look for her, so when I walked in and I uh did, not know that this is taking place when I walked into the spiral staircase out,

they knew me and they made me feel really special, and I did join right away, but kind of bounced. There and the hog farm and you're trying to make a decision, and they were going to take a trip to New Mexico, and you know it was I I kind of felt like if I felt like I belonged with them, You know, especially in comparison to how I felt when I was at the hog farm and so when they were going to leave for this trip, it's like yeah. Now I want to go so that's basically, when I joined tell us more about this first meeting, because it's very it's fascinating because you talk about that. You had red hair Alynette had red hair. Another couple: girls had red hair.

Then you know how to manage our demand yeah, what reddish chairman, Charlie Manson's, the mother of Charlie Manson, apparently had red hair so, but tell us a little bit more about how Charlie Manson reacted to you and again that's how you felt almost instantly as you right here that you belong at least you didn't feel like you belong your own family belonged here, but tell us just a little bit more about that first meeting, how he met you and how he greeted you gave me a big hug. You know he called me little darlin or something you know. Some endearment shares his root beer with me, which I You know it was a big honor which I didn't realize it at the time, but he just made me feel really special on the girls all surrounded me, and then he played

guitar and sing song. And then later that evening he said me and I'm very loving and very gentle um, so he just showered me with affection and Charlie had this ability to into it immediately what people needed. What weaknesses were you know what their? How? What where they're hot button? You know what the vulnerabilities and then he could feel that he could be calm. The person that you needed to fill those voids it was a real. It was amazing, and so he made me feel really special. You talk about him playing guitar and I don't know if everybody knows

that he wasn't. I don't know he had some definite creative ability as a songwriter, as you write in it in this book as well that that he I already had when he got out of prison issue right, that about eighty songs and he had met somebody from the music business. But at the time you meet him tell us what how important music is and what is the role of music and tell us what your participation is in that music soon after joining well, that was kind of the focus. You know. That was something that we you know besides,. Survival, you know making food, you know bathing having clean play, you know making making our environment nice. Was sitting around and listening to Charlie sing, his songs

and sing along? That was, you know that was really the substance of our life. Did you say you? His songs really is into an extension of of sharing his full of could be his ideology. You know and his you know. His knowledge, you know of life, you know and trying to be. I think he part of his Khan was you know, being a guru. And at that point you know everybody was looking for a guru, what is the following? Most of the commune were led by you know, occur Prismatic, rue, who you know a spouse to know.

All the ones about you know universal law, for why you write in the book that a little bit about Charlie Manson's time in prison and he had been in prison several times, and he was fascinated by the higher key in prison where you say the real, talented, con men and pens. I have that status in that hierarchy and he was very interesting. The pimps and the last time you went to prison he vowed to because he had tried in vain to be Tim penny's found that that the women weren't loyal, and so when he went in, I spoke to someone. You call him a wise pimp but out old, wise pimp, and he gave him the three secrets that he needed to keep women loyal to him, which be fair, and to

station and also perfecting this making love to this woman like no one had made law to them and and then also filling that void, like you say, of that loves that these women were looking for, and he could recognize pretty quickly to be able to do that. So you talk about Mary Brunner, be in on the bus Brunner being on the bus and so tell us, besides the singing and besides the sex and the l s d and this mentality in the philosophy disease espousing now in retrospect, of course, you could see things more clearly, but what are some of the things that you start to see? They were indicative of his ability to manipulate. He just has this uncanny ability to be calm, you know any any and everybody you know from the Don heck. You know ranch hand. Do you know

an executive, I mean he really and he could. He could talk about anything and make it sound. Like It was making sense, even though you know it really didn't an if you've seen interview interviews, you get a good idea of how he just can talk circles. Think that he had a special ability as special auditory of recall ability, because I don't think that he was an accomplished leader.

But I think he has I'm a very good ability to recall in every everything that he had heard, so she was very well versed in you know only to me at fourteen or fifteen. You know the Bible. Scientology Hindu, whatever he seemed to know a lot about everything and when he was in the jail you know he had that's where he got the idea about this race war Apparently he'd been hearing this from other people. You know the other, the black man in the jail for years,

that they were going to rise up, and you know overtake Whitey and. Kill the kill them all off I mean that was. The impression that he gave to us is that this was a real sing. You know now whether that was the fear and intimidation he did make us all feel extremely special, and I think that as I've gotten older and listen to some of the other girls talk about their relationship is that he really did make each one of us feel like we were his best loved and he was you know he was a very gentle and charismatic lover leader things that he would. He would just talk to

it's about. Okay, we need this or we need. You know whatever we needed food clothes, money and- and he would have us- be thinking positively about getting these things, and it's amazing how many times that what we needed would show up now whether this was. A manipulation, you know he traded, favors and- and he just wanted to make it seem that he had this special power. You know to have you know to produce things that we needed. It was probably part of the con. But at the time it seemed really that he had a special power now getting back to some of the things he learned in prison, though, and this would be keeping in with this

seduction as well- is that you do not see any. You do not see this fear and intimidation right away, especially involving yourself, but then you have situations like you say that, where he traded sexual favors and promised people things for other things, so things came to me. He asked the but he also manipulated people. You can automotive a profound to profound moment in this book where he wants to give you to. Someone else is part of a deal and you're, not so keen on it. Tell us about this, as you do in the book about you disagreeing with Charlie Manson about being with another man, courted his orders. Well, I think I think, there's no incidences where that happened. One time it was in Vegas and another time it was with hold true so both of those kind,

and I really know because of his ideology and and what he's been talking about in my naivete. I did not realize at the time that really I was being pimped out or you know I was being prostituted, I didn't understand and that it was just like. Oh it's, you know it's, free love, and if you know what I mean that it's you you know. Get rid of your inhibitions. You know it was kind of like a test, so I didn't really realize at that time that I was being used. But it wasn't comfortable and I didn't want to do it and I let him know that you know but he convinced me that this was the you know,

Houston right thing to do, but you talk about the the image that you had. First of Charlie again, this gentle lover, this person and love you this family member, this almost father figure this leader and yet he can reverse the sort of violence you can, just as your father somewhat your mother. It's ironic that your mother could read your father's moods and not approach him. That day after work till he was in a better mood to be approached. You learn that about Charles Manson as well. Don't you yes, yeah there. Definitely an if I couldn't read the clues. I looked the other girls. I look to you know Lynette or you know Mary Brunner, for those cues.

Now part of the story- and this is about the only bright spot. I guess really especially considering the horror of this- is that all through this, you are basically witness to some of the most incredible musical events in history. Monterey. Pop festival you went to there is all of these things going on at this time. Sixty seven sixty eight in California in the US in the music business period, and we also talk about of course, and then people have heard about this well as well is Dennis Wilson. So let's talk about a little a little bit about how important music was and how important music was to Charlie. Well, we alluded to the helter skelter, but at the time, nature with Charlie him being this musician, it it works for him and

so many ways to do so. Many things and you were all involved, you said everybody had mysteriously a good singing voice- and you learn all these words, and that was part of the thing. It was a big component of what you were all about this little family, so tell us about the circumstances in which some of the family members couple of girls meet Dennis Wilson, and why happens. As a result, couple of the girls were hitchhiking Dennis pick them up, and you know, of course, At that point you know they're all hyped up on. You know the wonders of Charlie may. Johnson and talk to Denison about him? And he wants to meet him, so they took him to spawn

mansion. He met Charlie and Charlie. You know was instantly, you know instantly befriending Dennis who wouldn't I mean in a lot of ways, and they were both kind of wild men just had fame and money. But other than that, I think that they, I think they had a lot of similarities anyway. Charlie got Dennis under his spell and was teaching him how to play the guitar, and so we, a few of us actually went with Dennis to his Emily, is pick or weekends at Parker on the Colorado River, and I think that

Dennis really, you know delighted in having a couple of these kind of hippie hip young hippie girls. You know on his arm, so I think that he'd like to. I think he like the kind of shake up his family, but they they eventually came around and you know let us with them, and you know we got into the boats and you know it. It was a fun time and then, when we shortly thereafter, when we came back a few of us moved in with Dennis and Charlie sent the rest of the family up to men to see no. So it was really just a very small, I would say it's. You know three or four of us, girls that stayed at Dennis's. You talk about how this lack of things and lack of space and.

Scrounging around sometimes for your next meal and then suddenly you're in this lap of luxury at Dennis Wilson's place, former actor will Rogers on this place. So was you say beautiful play, and then you had a beautiful lifestyle, yeah wow, you talk about. Go ahead, ran garbage runs, you know in Dennis Rolls Royce sure. So you know it's not like. Dennis was just. You know providing this lap of luxury. For us I mean we were. We were feeding him. We were feeding him, I mean he

He was happy when he was amazed really of what kind of meals we could pull together. Essentia Lee from a garbage dump, and that was one of Charlie Song Garbage dump well and he was proud to introduce, at least from my vantage point my perspective. It looked to me like Jenn I was proud to introduce Charlie to his musician friends. You know there were bands that came over and they jammed together and then Dennis took us to his brothers house and we're. Brian had a recording studio and I think they were not try to lay down some tracks there with. Charlie, and I don't know something happened. I was swimming in, the pool. Charlie came out, get you know, get

close girls were leaving and and others other people that have reported. You know various views of what happened, but I really think that they try to mold Charlie into something that he didn't want to be. You know they didn't. He didn't want anybody to change his lyrics or you know the names of the songs or the way he looked or the way he dressed. He was his own. You know he was his own man and he didn't. He didn't want them to change that, and I think that I think in the long run that's kind of how they kind of separated and then Dennis didn't own that house. He was just leasing it so his lease

ran out and he moved in with somebody else, and we moved out move back to spawn ranch. You talk about that altercation or incident at Brian Wilson. Again, Brian Wilson was is one of the biggest, if not the biggest singer, songwriter producer, guys in America and the world of music, and they it did sound like that. They try to produce some and he was, you know, not ope. To that any kind of changing of anything which again is not right, one comp, but just Charles Manson. It wouldn't like that. It's especially when you have you, you think your independent. So the thing is that you do talk about, and this was something I'd never read before to well get you to talk about. This is that after that section one of the songs was that Manson had done for that demo or for that

initial recording attempt. You say that he found out that that song was changed, that that session was used or that song that Charlie introduced to Dennis and Brian was changed under a different title and no credit is Charles Manson at all, and I thought, if you're going to have some kind of trigger, not not to explain why he killed people, but certainly his anger. And the the I change in Charles Manson. Is you write? It seems that occurred after this event. So tell us a little bit more about what you write about the song Being changed in Charles, not having any credit Charlie, not have any credit for this long. How much? How angry was, as a result of that, I don't know how angry he was, but he was.

You know he was upset and he really didn't show anger towards other people. In my recollection, he didn't show so that very often you know he he really. He really kept. Whatever true feelings he had to himself, I don't think he really confided I don't think he had anybody really to confide, I think my mother told me that one time. He told her and she felt like it was a time where he really likes. Let his hair down and told her. Do you know how hard it is to control these people? I was like, oh my gosh, so he you know he was trying to control things either,

for you know his own preservation or for his own. You, you talk about the after this time that things, the moon, it changes with, Charlie and and eventually the conversation, some of the things that we talked about, the love and everything about love and we're all love and communal communal and and that it had a more dark phone, an you at least start hearing again a different tone coming from Charles Manson. Can you tell us about that? Well, at we we had met Kathy Gillis, I'm not sure how she was introduced, but she was introduced. Uh, Charlie,

is talking about this race war and lo and behold she has grandparents that have a place very remote in death Valley sounds like hey: let's go check, now right. So we go up there. It's really remote, I mean even the even goler wash to get to the bottom of golem Wash is a long long journey. You know with very few gas stations along though I mean if any gas stations along the way and so getting up Goler Wash was quite the track and we get up there and her grandparents place is just as beautiful oasis in the middle of desolation. Well, then, right next door. So we stay there for a while. Then right next door is Barker Ranch. You know Maybe I don't know half a mile three

personal mile away and so and it's vacant, so it's Charlie, finds out who the owners are and goes and apparently gives Ma Barker eh beach boy, gold record, and so she says yes, you know you can stay at my bill and so that became You know our our focal point and we you know everything from then on, looks like focused on moving to the desert. You know like and then as as a place to hide out while this race war takes place. So we we several trips, but at one point he leaves me there with a couple of other people that I'm not particularly close. Do they have been in the family very long, and you know I spend my

I'm you know getting the place, you know decorating the place with rocks and bottles, you know broken bottle parts and the wagon wheels or whatever you know. I start like arranging the stuff to make it. You know, look, one. You know creative so but then, after a few weeks or a month, you know I feel kind of abandoned and Bobby Beausoleil shows up and he's looking for somebody to help him Panhandle money. I jump on the back of his motorcycle and he takes me away and the whole way soon as I left the desert. It's like. Oh, no, I'm going everything. Everything is screaming out to me that I made a mistake. I'm going the wrong way that I should not

it doesn't. But I there's nothing I can do, but it's not like hate Bobby. Take me back to the desert. You know I'm doing the wrong thing and when I come back into the valley there now they're, not at Spahn Ranch anymore there at this Gresham Street House and in like a neighborhood, I walk in the door. Charlie is like what I think I walked into the through the door and through the living room into the kitchen and Charlie's in the kitchen. He says: what are you doing here? I told you to stay in the desert, so I disobeyed in its design, taking so as punishment or whatever you taking me back to my parents. Why didn't wear my parents were, but somehow he figured out where they were found them? Took me back wasn't, I was too far and far gone too far program too crazy. You know too much drugs whatever and

I just didn't it just made me even feel crazier. I think it was probably the the reality check and my parents really didn't. Infold me. I went back to Charlie and. He took me, then, the Gary him and I spent some time with Gary Henman from there back to spawn ranch where the family he was no longer living, and eventually I ended up back with Charlie. I didn't want to. I didn't want to go to the please. I didn't want to go into a foster home yeah. I want to go into juvenile hall, and so I kind of ran out of options. So I went back and and and now he he takes me back, I mean maybe

what else to do with me. I don't know, but you know my I get back in to the family and then from there it so bad. That's when the White Album female There's more, you know he made me: I had to go to the bathroom, the baby, you pee in front of every ready on the rug, because it wouldn't let me leave so humiliation, and then you know beatings and just did not. You know. He was totally intent on the White Album that the Beatles were sending him this message and that's when this race war, Bk

name known as to US helter skelter, because that's what the Beatles were telling him that this race war was going to be helter skelter, I mean he played it backwards. He was obsessed. He was obsessed that these that he was the Messiah that the Beatles were sending him a message. You know that there really was to be this black. You know White Race WAR and we needed to go to the bar in a to the desert. Look for this bottomless pit, and so he was really he was really for.

That whole energy, more dune buggy showed up. You know motorcycle guys. I mean it just the whole. It was intense. You know that whole energy was intent. We different and negative. No it didn't. It didn't feel good. You talk about on August, fifth, Bobby bull cell will Soleil sorry for mispronouncing that he was arrested or something to do with stolen cars, and you say soon after Charlie went into a tirade. So tell us what happens after. He realizes that, or at least he's thinks, he's aware that the police are closing in, Right, I think that you know Bobby was driving Gary Humans car, and this is you know Gary Henman have been key.

Build and body was involved, Mary Bruner involved, Charlie, was involved with increased Davis was involved, and so I don't know if you know the ensuing events were a cover up for the Hinman murder. I wanted ok, it's like okay, we have to start Helter skelter. I mean I don't remember an it's all. You know at first and I don't remember what happened it's just that it got really crazy. The girl- and he is you- know. He had been sending some of the girls out on these creepy crawly missions. Where they dressed in black and they went think snuck into peoples homes. And I don't think they necessarily.

Stole things they might have, but that wasn't the it was it some kind of a training. And I know that Leslie went out on those, so it escalated and just Melcher and Charlie, We wanted to find supplying gas, food and supplies for the desert, and I think you know melter came around and we actually had like a recording. He listened to us at the ranch, Charlie, singing and us playing or singing and playing the guitar in a singing along.

And we went to a recording studio and we recorded there, and I think Charlie was really count on. You know. Making a record, or at least something happening that would provide, there's, some bigger money to fund our escape. You know our retreat, whatever you want to call it to the desert. But that didn't happen and Charlie wasn't Charlie, was very disappointed. You know he might have even been really angry, because I have the ceiling that Terry MELT

Made him feel like: oh, this was a done deal and especially since we actually went into the recording, studio and record it. So you know I mean these are just like. I don't have proof, you know, because I wasn't privy to any specific conversations, but just you know look there's, definitely some kind of correlation between that because text. And Charlie had both been too that's. Yellow drive house so and Terry Melcher had lived there whether they thought he still is there. I don't know you know. All I know is that there's that is definitely a connection and the labiancas were next door to Harold. True were held true

lived and where we had gone an had. You know a couple of parties at a herald. Labiancas live next door. You know, that's not just cool in the way I the way I look at it now. So I think there's definitely you know, there's definitely a connection. What we're? What was your role when you came back after disobeying him and Charlie Manson, looking up your pair and sending you back to your parents, but now you're back with Charlie Manson, considering your age and that you disobeyed him many times so obviously you're not the most compliant person that he has with him. What was your role around this time? Yeah other girls were on creepy crawly missions. What were you doing? What were you taking care of the babies. You know preparing food washing clothes

helping take care of George um yeah? I didn't really have you know. I didn't have a signal, any any kind of significant role, but I was just happy that you know. I was back with this fat. These people that I had you know accepted as a family where I you know. I was always trying to like belong again. Well, I didn't know where else to go: let's a talk about Leslie Van Houten and the fateful night that they talk to you and they're burning a person the fire tell us about who is involved what they said on this very, very important night to becomes very important in your life. Well, the burning of the person. All that happen

at one ranch, and I I didn't know what that related to it all. But somebody came to the door and Leslie was like all hired me and you know she put out the fire and climbed under the blankets, and so don't let that person see me and when the door- and he said- oh- I just gave you know so and so the think even but I just gave somebody arrive from Griffith Park and you know I looking for or whatever, and so I and I don't know what you're you know, you're talking he left and then less that continue to burn these things and she gave me a bag of coin, and that was really you know the n of that and then I got taken out too olancha and text was there, which was not unusual, because that was kind of

meeting place before we went out to the desert, so that we were waiting for the rest of the family members you know to some good all go to the desert. You know together because you need help, you know moving rocks and you know to get the vehicles up and over rocks and stuff. But you know it's not like you you, could just drive up there. You know it was an ordeal and in the meantime. I that this is when text told me I been arrested and, going to jail for a day and then been released and taken back and when I went back to the encampment text had a couple of newspapers and he slapped the headlines which were you know, Labianca murders, and he said I did this. You know Charlie told me to and so like, oh

I mean now. I'm scared. I don't know you know I this guy has is the self professed murderer? I don't want to stay, but I don't want. I I don't feel like you can go because he's just. Confessed to me. You know, is he going to kill me if I try to get away so I I'm just flattered, I'm like a deer in the headlights, I'm just fly, I'm just devastated and the rest of the family. Comes we go up to the desert? I don't you know I feel like I don't have any choice. At that point I mean I'm just up devastated. You know I mean my whole world is being pulled out from under me- Went up to the desert and we're.

Running around the desert, you know doing Charlie's doing making lookouts, but it's still all you know. Basically, under the guise of you know this helter skelter, but it's they had just. I think there was even some talk about all they had to start it, So one night, you know the girls are that were involved. Tell me, and there kind of I mean what I remember not specifically what they said, but the tone in which they said it. What kind of eighteen almost like breaking you were kind of giddy about it. I mean it it. They were definitely in the mindset that this was Part of helter skelter, you know it was all part of a prophesied, you know, so it was just

It was just weird that the way they told me in the the things that they the way they told me and the things that they described as they did, I mean Susan Atkins talked about how she considered. You know like cutting the baby out and saving it, and I was like oh oh, my god I mean I just was just was beyond belief beyond belief. And from then on I was. I was really just scared. Those constantly scared- and and I didn't know you know extricate myself from the situation at all, and and yet there was still that read. It was still that thread of belief. Is this real? You know it is. Are we supposed to be

you know, is he the Messiah you know. Are we supposed to? Are we going to find this bottomless pit and you know live there till helter skelter is over. This is like, my gosh? I was just really crazy, really crazy and all right, and then we got a rest, and that was you know and got taken to jail. I didn't tell him how old I was for like two months it until they took us to the grand jury or took us to LOS Angeles, and you know they wanted our testimony for the grand jury and it wasn't until just before. I went in to testify the grand jury that the bail fast being my name and my age, and I said, I'm dying lake, I'm sixteen

and I want my mommy and I really did you know I've been in jail with these girls in the same cell for a couple of months. Eating good, do you know eating better than we eaten wow, because we were living on brown, rice and ketchup and powdered milk orqu. Awhile, and then that was the first time that I had felt sane enough and safe enough and brave enough to say I want out. Basically I want this is my name, my age You know- and I want my mommy- I I want out of the situation, and so they separated me from the other girls. When we went back to in your county in a I was able to then gradually talked to the various detectives and.

And people- and I was quickly you know committed for observation, yeah, four, eight mental health hospital and they saved my life. I mean they were the big. They protected me. I went back to school and learn how to play the flute which carried me through many many many many years. I learn how to crochet. I had all these awesome, nurses and technicians and psychiatrists and psychologists that all help bring me back. Interi quality. You know Inn program, you whatever and then the arresting officer took me as a foster child. So I know I have that protection and that love, because he saw something in me that he thought was worth saving. So he took me into his home and and

What a wonderful feeling that is, after coming out of this horrendous situation and kind of Waking up to the reality that you know I've been under the influence of Hina Khan man, basically to be taken care of. By this, you know officer who he didn't have to. He didn't have to take me under his wing, but he Ed and I was able to get through the trial and looked Charlie in the ally. You know really that that was the end of the spell and after that, it just kind of to them to the back corner of my closet. I moved on you know, and I I I only have God to thank for. Providing me with that safety net.

The clarity- and you know I think the hardest part is really has been keeping it a secret because. It's a shame. I didn't want to be associated with this evil and now that I've written this book, I just feel so. I've reconciled that Fourteen through seventeen year olds, with my adult self, I'm sixty four now you know that was fifty years ago, but I feel like so much more of a whole person,

Anyway, what would I get right over there? No, not at all, not at all what was the reconciliation we we talked about. You talked about being a foster child of Jack and Carol the arresting officer and then taken in your family. Tell us just briefly once your family knew and once the authorities knew what your family had done. Your parents had done that sort of confrontation, nor that situation. We must have been incredible, but you also talk about the the Patton State Hospital in and all that time that you spent to essentially be deprogrammed from this cult that you were in

and then we're prepared to be able to testify against Charles Manson. Look him in the eye and look those people that were former family members in the IOT trial. Right I mean it was you know it's only by the grace of God that you know I was provided with that support and that that separation, my parents, by the time my parents were contact, because at that point then they were like living in Oregon. So I was already had already been made aware the court, so they were by the time they showed up. It was too late, but I think you know as much as I can. I love my parents and my my father's go now, but I love my parents, you know forgive them. They are or drive we. You know we moved on from that, and I

it was a good thing because if I'd been with them, I think the members of the Manson Family- and I think are still members of the Manson family and there's certainly a lot of wannabes. Unfortunately, that maybe would have found me either to like reclaiming the well. I don't know I I really don't know, but you know I was kept space. I was kept safe and I was allowed to heal and you know, go back to school and really find another place and telling the truth and being brave enough in- and I was you know, threatened with her

because I applied you know at the grand jury. I was threatened with perjury but telling the truth was more important to me. It's amazing to you, you you talk about the life that you built, the new life you built in the family that you finally, detain, built with your own hands, as you say, and yeah late husband, but you were married for thirty five years and you have two children and again one of the most profound moment great well, yeah. We got one of 'em yeah, I mean they're. All super precious my husband and I did an awesome job. You know raising them to be. You know useful unit of society and you know loving. There

grandmother died like almost two years ago now and you know they were the only heirs and I've been the trustee. It's just been a lot of times when there's a death and you know and the state to be divided. You know there's a lot of contention. My kids have been absolutely awesome. They they are awesome and I feel there I'm very proud of them and people that I lived in the same community for over thirty years, and you are just now finding out about my past. And it's been very positive, it's been very positive and I pray

god for that I mean most people you know to get their jaw dropped would go all my gosh. I I always thought of you as the troops, lady or the choir yeah. So if you know, but it's the it's so freeing to be able to share- and I I really hope that I yeah- I am being brave- I'm real, You know this public exposure is not really what I want to do, but I think that I hope, but I can bring some light. The peoples lives. I I can bring some hope some. You know redemption from forgiveness. I hope people can forgive and share. I mean there's so many look at the look of the gals that were harassed.

You know raped Minutelli by this Harvey Weinstein. You know they kept it. A secret secrets are toxic sequencer hurtful and if they had come out Sooner, maybe he wouldn't have been able to have this power over so many people, and I mean- and that's just a small example- I mean you know and and people that don't have that love that they they join gangs they join whatever. Organizations because they want to feel like they belong somewhere.

So I heard talk, hello reaches a lot of people, absolutely you talk about, and this is very profound to about the secrets and I'll talk to if they can be and how accepting your husband of thirty five years was Todd in this, but the hardest one of the hardest things to do was to tell your children. Wasn't it tell us about that? Yeah? It was really hard, but I feel like I didn't, have choice because I'd gotten this phone call is my book starts out. You know this Paul Dougherty calls me and he's got a cadaver dog and he's allergic to human remains up at Barker Ranch and he's got permits. The dragon if he, if they do

yep. Some human remains it's all going to open up again because they said that the whole purpose of even looking up there is because they think that I told Jack Gardner that there were other bodies up there. I mean this. Is this supposition? I do not remember ever telling Jack that there were other bodies up right. I might have said there could be because you know there's plenty of minors and various people that would drift through it at various times and and then disappear. So you know where they just passing through or did something happen to my I don't know I really you know. I don't know that anybody was he killed and buried up there. So, but that's what he said you know, and so it's like. Oh my gosh, I don't want my kids. I don't want my kids to find out.

Because of some media outlet. You know talking about this, so you know my husband and I decided that we really need it to tell the kids at least the older two Ann, and we told my oldest son, the phone he was going to college and he doesn't remember he doesn't remember telling me that, but he he. I remember him telling me that he slept with a baseball bat under his bed. For a couple of months you don't freak them out is freaking out now my daughter, she thanked my husband, her dad thank you for love, mommy. You know I mean and she's at this point she's the only one. That's read the book.

I'm not encourage ing my sons to read the book. It's like you know, read that read the prologue read the epilogue. If you don't want to read the rest, fine, don't read it, you know or if you choose to read it, and Gets too graphic skip it? You know move on to the next, because you know there's stuff in there. That No mother wants her son to read about her. You know what happened to me. I don't want them to see me as a victim. I was a victim, but I don't know. Necessarily want them to see me as a bit.

But your daughter read the you say your daughter read the book. I don't think your daughter could get that reaction from this book. I mean I'm, not your daughter welcome be in her position, but you did a great job at not being a victim in this book because you weren't in the end. It's really just by writing this book that I realized that I, what the victim, and maybe that helped me how come you know an um survive and prevail, I mean. Not only did I survive, I thrived and I prevailed, and maybe that's because I did take some responsibility for what happened to me, And I didn't, I didn't wallow in being a victim. I didn't. I didn't feel like a victim.

Now. This is a I feel like no, I was he was a con. He was, he was a con doctor, Phil called at love bombing. Apparently this is a new term where manipulators. Bomb, the heck out of there, you know subjects with love and adoration Ann so then they get them. You know under their skin.

And then the manipulation van, you know the fear and intimidation start with that person. Hang on to that initial love bombing. I thought that was I. I never heard that term until I went on Dr Phil And- and he talked about it- and I never heard that term before so, but I think it's fair. Thank you for that. In keeping with that, I have this question that I'm curious about. Why did you want to do it

now? What were the circumstances now? How did you were you convinced to do this now? What were those circumstances that made it possible now? Well, my husband of thirty five years was diagnosed and died of a rare and aggressive form of cancer. Once he was gone, I needed to find myself and then the pro finding myself and looking form. You know the reason to wait, not that I was going to commit suicide, but the reason to to move forward and live. I didn't want to just. You know been binge watching. You know wreaking wind down. You know loving my grandchildren, which is not a bad life, but I

I just felt a deeper need, and I I wanted to share this caution. Retail with as many people as and I wanted to share the fact that I you know my faith. I hold dearly an I give. I wanted to give the glory of my survival and my you know my prevailing and thriving and having a wonderful family in spite of the darkness that I lived through God. I really can't it's just been an amazing. It's been an amazing life, but I've had this deep dark seek that I really didn't share with anybody except my pastors and a few close friends, and I was tired of of of doing that. I mean I do

do anything wrong. I was a victim and so I think that that whole process this was really important in. I was in therapy for the beef of losing my husband, and so why not add this into it, and I had gone to like a hi performance motivation, academy and and and been taken through. You know three days of you know trying to find that higher self at higher purpose, and I had this epiphany that now was the right time to write the book and everything just fell into. Place after that I mean I found a life coach who helped me right and then once I written my memories, you know I got an agent and the agent led to you, know. Collaborator and the collaborator was had in a trial attorney and Deb Herman had been a.

While attorney- and she had a degree in journalism specializing in true crime and memoirs- I mean was that a perfect fit or what so sure. Just then She was the perfect and she was a right. She was already a writer. It was just the perfect fit yeah. It's an incredible collaboration between the two of you. I mean this book is incredible. It is I'm nine, it's cliche cliched to say it's. You can't put it down, but this is the book that will be Forever in my memory, almost every single bit of this- it's just so vivid, and it is such questions that you really you thought we read it I'm impressed. Well, you can't you can't do anything, but

it's just such of incredible. I mean delicious slab of american history. It's just the best way to learn about the fascinating history, the California, the counter culture, the end of the 60s music, everything the Manson murders that ended the sixties. I mean that was like the icing on the cake, all

Look what LSD in marijuana will do you know, and so a lot of thirty year olds in their 30s have really thanked me for writing this book, because you know they did not understand what what was the 60s all about. I mean it was a special little slice of history, not necessarily healthy yeah. It was it was. There was definitely a movement. I mean this was. Something that seemed good and and right, but it wasn't, you know, and they certainly didn't take into consideration. You know a young adult like me. You know my age in

consideration. All and most of the people in in the con. Millions were either older or they were younger. They were either of age, they were, they had young children, they didn't have teenagers. Now I mean, I don't remember any kids, my age who were in these they were either little or they were of age. There wasn't anybody like in between, like I was yes

anyway. I think we've gone over our hour. Yes, I'm going to have to bid you Ado for sure. I want to thank you very much Diane for coming on the talking about this incredible book, member of the family, my story of Charles Manson Life inside his cult and the darkness. Certainly that ended the 60s. Thank you very much. Diane is, do you have a facebook page or a website for people that might want to look into this a little bit more find out more about it. I I don't not yet, but I I think I will be putting one together. That sounds great and I think it'll be like Diane Lake dot com. It doesn't exist yet the url r exit well, the book is out and it's it's fascinating. It's incredible

and I can't do anything more than just a urge people to experience. Member of the family. I want to thank you very much Dan for coming on and talking about this. It has been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you have a great night. Thank you. Ok, thank you. Goodbye goodnight steeped in luxury, driven by innovation. It's how we do business at Genesis of Willow Grove. It's our mantra, the phrase we can't help, but repeat it's our promise that a genesis of Willow Grove will serve every customer as exquisitely as Genesis, DAS, steeped, in luxury, driven by innovation. Its genesis of Willow, Grove on Eastern Road in Willow, Grove and online at Genesis of Willow Grove dot com hurry in for an offer as exceptional as our vehicles.

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