« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2013-12-04 | 🔗
Growing up, Susan Berman's childhood was idyllic. She was Las Vegas Mob royalty, the daughter of a Mob boss who ran the Flamingo and furnished his only child with anything money could buy. But halfway through her childhood, dream exploded. Susan's father died without warning during a routine surgery. Next, Susie Berman's mother died by her own hand the next year when she overdosing on drugs. Susie was whisked away from the only home she'd ever known, parentless and living with an uncle and his family and sent away to boarding school. Fast forward to college where Susan met her soul mate, Robert Durst. They became best friends and each other's confidants. Durst went to work for his wealthy father at the Durst Organization in Manhattan while Susan became a journalist, writing about women's cultural issues for newspapers and magazines. She followed Durst to New York, where he married the beautiful Kathie McCormack. Then, Kathie disappeared and Susan stood by her best friend Robert, despite suspicions that Durst had caused the demise of his wife. Twenty years later, as police closed in on Durst and reopened the case, seeking to interview his best friends, Susan was murdered. Few clues were found. Who did it and why? Was it the Mob? A trusted friend? Murder in Beverly Hills (an updated, revised edition of Murder of a Mafia Daughter) answers those questions. Exclusive information about the investigation is included in this edition, as well as new interviews of police detectives, Susan's friends, family and colleagues, and new information about Robert Durst is revealed. MURDER IN BEVERLY HILLS-The Mob-style Execution of Susan Berman, Her Crime Boss Father, and The Deadly Secret She Took to Her Grave-Cathy Scot
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Btk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening this is your host Dan is of asking for the program to murder the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors of the written about them growing up to Susan
Berman's. I don't get the flavors of computer back in a big way, we're talking, pumpkin doughnuts, pumpkin, muffins, pumpkin, munchkins, donut holes, ovoid, pumpkin, coffee, pumpkin, iced, coffee, pumpkin, frozen copy, pumpkin, latte, scanned the exciting new cinnamon sugar pumpkin signature latte, which has got sugar and spice and everything nice. It's pumpkin flavored everything at Dunkin America runs on Dunkin and Pumpkin K Cup pod still limited time. Offer participation can kick it used under license. Childhood was idyllic. She was LAS Vegas MOB Royalty, the daughter of a mob boss who ran the flamingo and furnished his only child with anything money could buy. But halfway through her childhood M exploded, Susan's father died without warning during a routine search. Next Susie Berman's mother died by her own hand. The next year, when she overdosed on drugs, Susie was whisked away from the
only home she's, ever known, parentless living the uncle and his family and sent away to boarding school now fast forward to college, where Susan met her soul mate Robert Durst, they became best friends in each other's confidence. First went to work for his wealthy father, the Durst Organization in Manhattan. While Susan became a journalist writing about women's cultural issues for newspapers and magazines, she followed Durst in New York, where he married the beautiful Kathy Mccormick. Then Kathy disappeared.
Susan stood by her best friend Robert, despite suspicions, the Durst had because of the miles of his wife. Many years later, as police closed in understand reopen the case seeking interviews best friend, Susan was murdered, few clues were found, who did it and why was it the mob? A trusted friend, murder in Beverly Hills, an updated, revised edition of murder of a mafia daughter answers those questions. Exclusive interview, information about the investigation is included in this edition, as well as new, Interviews of police, detective, Suesens, friends, family and colleagues and new information about Robert Durst is revealed the book that we are book. We have profiling this evening is murder in Beverly Hills, the mob spell execution assuming Susan Berman, her crime, boss, father and the deadly secret. She took to her grave with my special guest journalist and author Kathy Scott welcome back to the
Programming, thank you for agreeing to this interview Kathy Scott. Oh you're welcome Dan. Thank you very much for a warm welcome. Thank you. This is This is a great update of an already previously great books. So let's get dive right into this for those of us that don't know who Susan Berman is and Davy Berman and the whole connection with what Susan Berman later, the you claim in the book that she called it. The royal family of LAS Vegas, Frank, this novel Bugsy, Siegel, David Berman and LAS Vegas. When was sixteen thousand people, so tell us a little bit about who Susan Berman was first by telling us who her father was and given us a little bit of historical background at that time, call them a casino hotel or hotel casino
Call pioneer so tell us a little bit about Davie Berman and before we talk about Susan Berman in her life growing up well, her dad Davie Berman was a monster. I mean he was with the jewish mob, absolute actually with, Maya Lanski and that group, and did it in Sioux falls Iowa a lot of rackets. There. Then he went to Cincinnati and from there he and then some he was work. Indian casinos doing what I don't know Waht in minutes net net Susan's mother Gladys. His real name was Betty, but her stage name. She was a dancer and her stage name was Gladys
with her and their newborn baby, married or in with sorry to Vegas. They came by train and that was in the forties and Susan grew up as basically, royalty and was spoiled little girl and I'm happy and her dad took her to work a lot and she had the run of the casino and all the casino workers to please Davie her dad they would give anything she wanted and she got a hotel room and watch tv and order. You know room service and every now she swam a lot her mom in. Flamingo swimming pool used to go out there with her, with some of the other mothers and and then her mother, Father died when she was twelve years old on during surgery and
It was a pool up or something in his intestines and they center away to boarding school her mother was, it had had nervous breakdown. Off and on, and she was sort of absent that last year she who is in LA and assisted living or whatever they used to do back then and for nervous breakdown, so whatever they called them and then Susan with their part of the time but going to boarding. Cool and then her mother died, Susan was convinced that she was murdered and and her cousin Susan's cousin her mother's first cousin is absolutely convinced and he worked for Davie Berman at the time and she died and Susan was, you know, sent away.
To boarding school another different boarding school and then to Idaho to live with her uncle an nobody ever talked about her dad or anything, and she I'm Noah and I'm that's from a cousin who lives with her and no one to never was like it never happened now part of the life and all of the sudden she was planted elsewhere and she never go. Over. It was almost like her feet were firmly planted in LAS Vegas she went on to college and all of that, so that's who she was and her dad took over this for so he was working there as a co. He was part owner, Bugsy, Siegel was murdered and Davie Berman took over fifteen minutes after Bugsy was murdered. And ran. It ran the flamingo until he died,
and that was a long division. You you read in the book, though, that she had this idea like life, what he he it's C, ST almost matter of factly, that the mother was receding shock treatments three times a week, so her mother was really not so involved with her upbringing. She adored her father and yeah it it really did melt no go ahead. No go ahead. Sorry! Well, I heard first Cousin Tom. I heard there her first cousin once removed her heard. Mothers first cousin on Patton who happens to live in LAS Vegas he's in his 90s. Very you know doing very well and I met with him and his son several times and he worked for davion, so he used to drive with Susan to work and He told me she's to get mad at him and kick him because she want
go somewhere and he'd say no and to start kicking him while he was driving, but because she was kind of very spoiled and and just a kid, but her mother was Jackson. I asked the cousin. How was how was you know? Her mom toward her when she affectionate and then another and who grew up with her and lived in the neighborhood and spent a lot of time. Her only friend, really in the neighborhood was allowed to go to her house, but but they wouldn't let Susie go to his house. His name was pat and because the parents were afraid that something.
Happen is Susan. Was there you know mob and rast, and that sort of thing he said you know her and her childhood friend, Pat told me and, and Tom did tears that glad it's him mother, wise it real affection at sea. She would always offer and cookies when he come over and that sort of thing that always dressed up and and he thought she was kind of affected. I it sounds to me like she was a little disc but I think her dad made up for that because he was very affectionate with her and he would come even leave work so early, so he could occur in and then he would go back to work. So I think she got her effects. And in that nurturing mostly from her father, who's more broken up over his death and she was her mothers and she was you know, thirteen years old and she was an orphan. It's very sad, you know never got over it.
Never got over leaving you know the idyllic. You know hurt his idyllic and you have to see what the book Easy Street he had taken Better season was riding it. You know, sort of with her memoirs sort. With. My rose colored glasses from a child's perspective into never got past that for the twelve thirteen year old mentality, at least when it came to her talent, yeah talk about sort of is this innocent. She didn't realize what her father did tell that there was a service certain Mob hit and achieved, saw overlooked someone over the shoulder and saw that the headlines and the photos and the stories so gradually it seemed especially after her parents were dead she started to slowly realize who our father, was, and his importance and sort the scary world that he inhabited
and should be, he was a killer, he actually yeah, you got accused of killing and they He did some time. He was in sing sing and she you know, and when the book came out in one thousand nine hundred and eighty one she went on Jane Pauley. I think these today show back then, and she just sort of- and it's still view it. If you search art online, you can find the interview and she very matter of factly and almost proudly does you know my dad was the killer? Who can kill, kill a man with one arm? You know, she went to she did. A lot of research went, went to the library found any book. You know with her dad's name in it. She didn't think it was mentioned enough and she was trying to make him famous. But you know that was typical of the LAS Vegas mobsters, and you know the jewish mob was here before the italian MOB and in LAS Vegas
and it was typical of them to try to legitimize themselves and they were very respected here in LAS Vegas and you know there was a rule here that if you're going to kill, you can do it. You have to do it over the state line. Don't. Don't do any murders in LAS Vegas and they didn't none that we know of. No her parents, Tilea Study, kept a low profile and she she she she. She idolized him and kind of put him up on a pedestal and sort of I don't know I mean: did you get the feeling when you read it that she thought it was ok that he was a mobster and he was notorious than a kilogram, all of that to the almost proud of it. What she came. I think she came around to accepting it and like neighbors like a neighbor, it said and you capture in the book as well, that a lot of friends, but she was you, know the life of the party and she was quite a
rageous and sort of hilarious and very dramatic so with with her ability to be a writer, and you know you know you write about what you know. I think often that there's a certain amount of dramatics is a minute, but then again she certainly loved her father. So I think I think later when she came to the realization of who we actually was in the some of the crimes he was accused of, and so I think she came to the realization. Obviously, before thirteen she didn't know anything, and then there was that you capture in the book that uncomfortable period of time where her innocence was shattered, basically end, and so I think, with the idea that she became
I'm a writer she wanted to be a journalist and she was successful. I think that she came around to accepting his wasn't investing in journalism yeah. Maybe for give enough yeah. I I would think that that her missing him so much in all missing that life, that she was surprised that she came to at least a justify it under whatever pretense you want. You know, that's that that's the way things were, but your father did love her and she did have a what she considered a wonderful life at a time before her father died when she was thirteen, so seven said, Elvis Presley sing, happy birthday on the leader Randy you know gave her birthday presents and
you know he would, and he didn't have a lot of friends her dad would invite all of that casino executives and their children to go, and they would have this incredible birthday party at the casino, and you know if you had our own slot machine at the casino, so it it it for her. Right. You know she could swim anytime. She wanted in the pool. She could do anything she wanted there and then they they wrote in the call Dorado parade. It's very big d deal here year after year, the Helldorado Parade and he on a float every year, so she truly was you know, treated differently and knew it and an lost that an. I think she was trying to get it back in some ways. It's sad because she had a great deal of wealth
and lost. It got some back and then lost it again, and she wasn't good with money. It's like she wasn't prepared, it wasn't prepared for life. Are, I don't think now tell us A little bit about, obviously we we skipped over this, this her yearning to become a journalist. She becomes a journalist who becomes a good writer. She gets a lot of attention, so tell us a little bit about some of the books that she's written in terms of content in terms of what did she write about, even though you know again
you know, publishers and the Tories for a bill being a little overly dramatic to you know inside the mob, and meanwhile is it inside on of the mob. What did Susan Berman Knoll, but, of course her cachet is, is that she was connected to the mob, the mob princesses. They call the Rio, what were her books really about and what really was the content, despite all the hoopla? What was the content about and how? How did she write? Tell us a little bit about that? We these street was a good, but she was a feature writer. She she was straight out of college. I had interviewed her. Her dean he's now passed, but she went straight from college masters degree in journalism to the sense, Disco Examiner and she was working in the women's section which you know back then in the 60s. That's what
I would tell you know she was an ambitious and in that respect, seem things seem to come easy to our school seem to come easy and should like work in it. The examiner, but she made in name for herself there, because she wrote she wrote an article in a in a weekly newspaper that was actually owned by Francis Ford Coppola. And it was how how to get laid in San Francisco, and in that this became, I mean it just, went off the top and became viral as viral will be back there and she was the talk of the town and she decided then to move to New York and after she moved to New York, he landed a book deal with style press for easy street. It was her life and our parents and it it is in our
excellent, read and she there was a movie deal and she got something like three Eighty five thousand dollars is something which was a lot of money back then former The deal that ten. Good on writing. The screenplay she was difficult to work with sometimes right and insisted on doing the screenplay and they right now and the deal got killed and she didn't have to return that money. So is he, but she hung out with all these papa Let's see, you know Lorraine Newman from from Saturday night live in a bunch of a bunch of riders, including Robert Durst, who she met. UCLA. You know he's the son of Big Big
real estate mogul in New York, and he was her best friend and she followed him out there. So she, his friends, became her friends to see hung out with rich people lived on Beekman place, which is real. Tony and and then her she's gone after after college he window in between college and high school for a summer. Her uncle center with you know mob money because he was given a stipend for Susan. Quite at that she went the is Israel for a summer and She came back and after she wrote EZ streets, he wrote two novels in one was driver if a soldier a ride, and it was a love story in Israel based in Israel and she kind of got back to her under and use it as her dad was from Russia. Mink rush, I believe her
grand father was a rabbi rabbi in Russia, and so she kind of was going back to her russian roots. Her dad didn't take her to the synagogue very often, but he did take her in LAS Vegas and up well, she died. She was going to the synagogue in Hollywood, so it she wrote that book and there is another novel. I forget the name it didn't do very well Easy street did very very well. As it's been long long out of print. Someone should put it back in print and then a high note he should have lows and then I know it is. Is she wrote Lady, LAS Vegas. If company it was, it was release at the time that and a lease, that's all three party, any special, which really is the best really the best piece of that's ever been done on LAS Vegas and Sue.
Then was our producer on that and a writer in instrumental and Lance landing being How did the interviews for it, but as a historian, here in town told me a state his join. When I interviewed him, the the Lady LAS Vegas was such a disappointment because Easy Street was so good. Maybe Who is the added, and I don't know that she just almost like she was trying to be re sort. Be adult Susan riding, easy street. You know to come May the release of the any specials- and it just Didn'T- come offen didn't do very well, and that was a big disappointment to her. They got an award all the producers, including Susan, for the any special, and It was in ninety six. So that was four years before she died right.
Now so there was not a lot of money involved in in any special, but a lot of notoriety absolutely now there was nothing in these books, though, Susan knew or told that to tell all or embarrassing, humiliating or out of bounds for mobsters, present or past so There was nothing like that at all. Was there now? In fact, if cops, you know when she died in her bed Lee Hills home you know is just very sparse, sparsely for newsstand the cops logged in, and it was the first mistake and many that they made in the murder case. LAPD, they didn't call homicide. It was new. It was Christmas Eve morning early afternoon, and they were greeted as they open the door and went into the house, and she was. She was in a side room with a poster, a wanted,
poster of her dad wanted for murder. She probably had on above her fireplace and so they're. There deal was so she was shot in the back of the head. It must be a mob head so but no The joke was, I mean even Oscar Goodman Uniform Amab attorney here in LAS Vegas and and was Amare at one time. Even he said you know they all of those monsters from that air back, then most of them are dead or senile, and there's nothing going on that Susan would have known, although she did. She did confide in a couple of friends, said that she had some information that she was going to blow the lid off of some things, but that same friend said that her she had a real flair for over dramatizing things. So didn't take that particular statement, which other contacts would be wall while wow.
She didn't think it was well. She did think awhile down. I want all Susan she's just being dramatic again, and so, let's go back just a little bit here. She's living in a place, she's renting the place and she's renting the place from a woman named D Baskin and despite her appetite for opulence and wealth and and the good life this place is not the greatest place. Among the athlete of surrounding her. Is it and tell us, you know it's an ionic, a nice neighborhood I went there, but she was. Susan was down on a luck. She had a show time series that was being accepted.
By about women, the wives and mothers and the casino owners and the women of LAS Vegas, and because of who are dad. She had entree to all of those people and access and she had landed. It was about to happen, and so she's been struggling and was down on money and had to borrow it as you know, and and she wasn't paying her rent. So she was behind three months. Rent and be Baskin was very, very upset with her and actually threatened. Susan said it. You know in a note, threatened to kill her dog and kill her if she didn't pay the rent, so it was actually was in the note, but she police selected her and is who is eighty something I think, and he was a person of interest for a very short time,
What complicated, though you you put in your book to add a little at least intrigued anyway, it was that she sent around this threatening very specific I'll, kill you letter and then right after the Susan was found. She went on vacation and was driving a rented vehicle after vehicle are Yes, I find it very interesting, and at that point the I can tell you the homicide unit didn't get on the case for about two one slash two to three weeks, and so you know and her manager quasi manager because he was just a guy. She met in an apartment she lived in previously an
and he would handle some things for her said she called her manager. Has he broke into the house and that's amount of record people? The police interviewed him got a search warrant for his house search warrant for his office, but they didn't get it for several months as he broke into a house because she owed him money and he wanted. He said wanted to look at her bank statements didn't volunteer. This some neighbors saw after the please left the scene of the crime several hours later he waited and once they were gone many he broke into a window and went through some things. He said he removed what he returned. What was removed but we'll never know for sure Nile Brenner's cell and I can see his name because he was named person of interest for a while they let that go. He was very angry with sue that he was angry at the funeral friend said he was very upset, so there you go, you've got two and then they
I think he had an alibi. I don't remember what it was and they missed a lot of opportunities because they didn't get to the crime scene can tell you the as far as the murder scene goes. They did it even do a fiber, no fiber analysis, no picking up of anything off the floor other than a single bullet, nine millimeter, shell casing they did do, they did do some finger printing, but there is a palm print that nobody knows if they ever got that you know, but they do Do any fiber analysis or picking anything up, which I think was a major mistake. There was no hair and fiber. There was no scraping of fingernail, would be an ideal, but whoever else you said there was no rape kit, but then again I I don't know. I would just question that if there was no evidence indicating a warranting, the
that that's not so unusual, however, but they didn't do it dinner legs were legs were apart. She was wearing sweats, but her body was turned over. She. She died I mean she, they know how she died in house. He found his who shot in the back of the head and her body was turned over, and so I ended in. I've got a copy of the death certificate and I've gone through the whole thing, and and all that the coroner's report which I wasn't given, but I sat in the coroner's office and a public information officer read it to me a line by line as I took notes because he couldn't give it to me. So it's just some odd circumstances. It was a poor. It was a poor investigation but, like I said, they even outwardly said the mod. Probably did it an is Christmas everyday,
they wanted to go home, and that was that they only stayed for a few hours plus as her friends were learning about it, one by one, because she didn't show up at a party and they all started, calling each other. They showed up at crime scene they're allowed go inside the house, so it was like the Oj Simpson in LA and Nicole Brown crime scene, almost or just everybody in there brother was walking all over the crime scene, terrible yeah and they weren't. They didn't take fingerprints with they weren't. They did was using all the all the no yeah, so all that yeah there yeah they used to. Yes, it wasn't it didn't it wasn't. It certainly wasn't a thorough investigation as we'll find out as we proceed in the book and another you unit of the police LAPD take over the case and start looking at things. That's a little bit
little bit later on now you say that the police don't say it's a mob hit, but they Everyone looks at it as a professional hit, but what is their assessment of the crime scene, even though they didn't do too much crime scene analysis? I think you say that he didn't even send a specific cs. Die person there. But what is there? They were. They followed it up later incentives. They didn't even have the CSI team there now, but they did follow it up later, but it was, I mean, like the cousins said he was actually at the house. And and the younger cousin, the son of his of the first cousin of her mother, and he said that there were tips, paint chips on in the door jam that were on the floor. Her body was an was so flabbergasted that they hadn't pick those up I mean why were there paint tips? You know also the doorknob the front door, because obviously this is the big
bing. She knew. Whoever came into our house because there was no forced entry should gone to the show that night see best of show. With a. I think it was the screenwriter or somebody in the movie business, and that was about nine hundred o'clock when she got home. So we know it was based upon how Her body had been there from the corners report. It happened sometime probably be twenty nine and midnight, and then then, if it were alerted the next morning, this is on the 22nd. They were alerted the next morning on the 23rd fire dogs running around the neighborhood and barking. Somebody who Whoever did it went out the back door and left the door open, but nobody did anything until December 24th the next morning, one one neighbor woke up and the dogs are still running around and decided to go investigate and then
another neighbor on the other side had one of her dogs in their house and called police yeah. There was some floppiness with the investigation right from the start. Keystone cops. Ok now who she has a neighbor. I believe Ruth Barton off and right after this Ruth was a friend of hers, not a neighbor they went synagogue together, she's a dear dear person and she's, a friend of mine on Facebook, actually she's like ninety two. I think. And we're young, what was she told that the relationship was? What did she think the relationship was with Niles Brenner. See she only met him once and it was at a book signing here in Ruthy had lots of contact with Susan.
During the holiday Inn. You know Chanukah and that sort of thing and she had a book signing at Venice Beach, For I think one of her novels and Lucy went and so did Nile, and it was when she met him. He's kind of office. Susan talked about him too rude, but not the other people there were other other friends of hers didn't even know about him what he would do with driver around Susan was deathly afraid of bridges. Anything that resembled the breads. Even if It was a little area on the right that dropped. You know in a car. She was definitely afraid of that and she didn't like the drivers so now with drivers to doctor appointments, set appointments, lunch appointment and to kind of use him as a as a driver. I bet he, it was at one point thought they were in.
Volved in Aston Susan said: oh, no, no, no, they never were and they weren't Susan I haven't had a boyfriend since some her live in boyfriend and his kids lived with her, and then she raised those two kids after one of them. After they separated as her own daughter and she lived alone with her for about five years. Another witness. We've got other right now we wouldn't we have these. These spoke of now Brenner breaking into the home, and he and he's saying to friends. I don't think you said the police, but I believe you said the friends that he was looking for evidence of money because he she owed him money and he said comments like at the funeral, like she suck me dry and no idea what I'm very tired, ever yeah young, on may I talked him on a sunny hung up on me twice yeah I seen well.
It seems like man, and I never want to talk about her again, that sort of thing. Well, I which is odd. It was it's in line with the dialogue. Beauty is in the books will same kind of sort of attitude. He he talks about was interesting. Is he talks about? He knew about any mention to friends about us, the fifty thousand dollars that Robert Durst had loaned Susan birthdays and days or or or pardon me, yeah. Okay. So let's, let's talk? Let's, let's talk about that money, then let's talk about that money. Okay, it was Susan needed her her car when she got her advance for the book she bought herself, a converted and as soon after she moved after scripted advance after the movie deal fell through she moved from new. The LA wanted to become a screenwriter. She was at the top of her game. She was riding for New York magazine with
Nicholas Pileggi or however, you say is it played play g She was one of the writers with at at New York magazine and top of her game and she owned. She bought a place on Beekman Beekman place. He bought a condo, but she up and move wanted to become a screenwriter in Hollywood, they're always down well after that, and she took the money she had plus set some trust fund. Over a period of years. She was given five point, four mil in dollars is something that's from one of her cousins who lived with her stayed in touch with her and was very good friends. It's Dave Berman, the Rr call Chiqui son and she actually moved in with them and was there during holidays NM when school wasn't end, she would be at their house, that's where she lived and he he said she had all this money, so she would get payment for last.
It was when she was thirty years old and that was done all the money from the mob at her father's interest in hotels and stuff and that that he bought a place in, but once he had a house in Brentwood, she took the last of the money when she was with Paul Kaufman's. He lived with him with his children and put that into a play that he wanted to develop and put on the stage and there was a lot of money going into that. That was the end of her money and one day, separated and and moved out and and Mella. The daughter came with her. She actually moved into an apartment, owned by a friend. It's how she met Nile, he lives down the street and they met while they were walking their dogs and she lived there that friend. Well, you can live there till you get back on your feet. Five
years later. Susan was still in that apartment and she had the vector- and it was a very bad ending with that friend. Is she was a singer. I forget her name it's in the book Anne, but I think that indicates that Susan sort of felt entitles. You know she did that for free stayed there for free, So still at that point she was very very down on her luck and then she wanted she had moved in. She had lived in in the house. He. She died in years earlier. So when she was kicked out of that that apartment by the friend who he kind, overstayed. Her welcome Susan Dead called the landlady, the Baskin and move back into the Beverly Hills House that she died in she's, always trying to get back to me. She had a good time there
it was. She was not high on your game when she first moved into that house and an and then move then bought a Brentwood House instead moved out. So it's almost like. She always tried to get something back. You know, so she called the lady and move back into that house, but it was all downhill from there. So Bobby Durst, We he needed a car and she got all the body there's you know our friend from college and he gave her two separate payments to twenty five thousand dollars each, and that was what Nile was looking for So if she had any of that money last to repay him and whatever it was. He said she owed him now when it Bobby Durst according to-
the police interview him and have the interview him. Did they bring a man to talk to him how the knot in a hundred years old and they never interviewed and they tried in Israel, never interviewed Bob either Susan Susan told her because in doubt, Bobby was going to come down from censuses school 'cause, you had a couple of houses, he lived in New York, but he had a couple of houses in San Francisco and at the time those Susan didn't couldn't find them because he was not in San Francisco is not in New York will talk about where he was right, but she couldn't find him said she contacted the Durst organization. He got ahold of him and he immediately Center attack said this. This is not alone, this is a and she went and bought a car paid,
The quarter Land lady took her to court that she worked out a deal she was going to have to make this is November, or so she was killed in December. She was going to be able to live there until March and. The court allowed her to do that because she paid back rent said to pay up, so the money Bobby gave her was to pay back rent and play the next three months and when she was going to have to move this was just a gift gift and someday. It would be gift because, when their swipes disappeared, Susan was his spokesperson and everybody said she knew more about the disappearance of theirs wife, Kathy, there's then
she let was led led people to believe and so people that police in New York wanted to read interviews Susan and about the Duggars case, because that Kathy Durst case because they re open the investigation and some say it's the body- and that he was giving her the money to kind of pay her off for her silence. And they didn't get the interviewer, but they very publicly announce it in in the New York magazine that they were real to mean at an looking to interview season and had been in contact with her in a couple of weeks later she was dead. Well, that's very interested in in the thing is, is that I just called circumstantial evidence, but the thing is: according to friends, Susan spoke about dirt,
And his culpability in that disappearance Disney yeah feeling more than one to restart it. Yes, she was starting to talk about it that there was more to it in that some say that she was going to blow the lid off of something she was upset with Bobby Durst because he had married someone and he family of Kathie Durst had her pronounced dead years later she died. He's missing since eighty one, but they she was declared dead. No, nobody know nothing not heard from since so that freed up Bobby there. To get married and he married this woman had known for years and years. Susan was he wasn't calling her and talking to her. She,
anymore. She was no longer his confident and some say that she's very disappointed in that and was upset with him and was talking about this information. She knew about the disappearance of Kathie Durst, which is never been charged with murder, but he certainly been is suspect in her disappearance. Now we police, they really have these three suspects. Like you write in the book, they really don't investigate. Well, ok, persons of into yeah? Because they said they have? No, they have no viable suspect, but they really don't. Do much of an investigation given all of the information? You really do have three people of interest that you can't possibly have done it because indeed, I'm indeed me they. You know they never interviewed her again. They talked her on the phone
I don't know for age had something to do with it, but the landlady who actually wrote you going to kill her and then there was that cadaver note then, well who hello, whoever killed her because it was postmarked before her body was found because the body was in town for two days. So what was postmarked on on the you know the next day, which was a Saturday it was postmarked on this Saturday. The day before her body was found that there's a cadaver at so and so addressed her address, and it was mailed to the Beverly Hills police. Spelt incorrectly Beverly, yeah Beverly, and so that, but but LAPD I don't know what the border is. Butt hurt that stretch of, even though it's within the Beverly Hills, city,
they do have a Td Lapd had the jurisdiction of that canyon, then it at canyon. It was an LAPD case, not Beverly Hills, that it was mailed to police that was handed over to homicide, and this cadaver of it is rather all in capital letters, and they even wanted to check typewriters at at at now Brenner's house, to see or printers to see. You know what not stand and handwriting they want it was. It was handwritten as well and they wanted handwriting samples from from Robert Durst, with his attorney refused him to do. So they so they got Niles handwriting from the guest book at the funeral and they're hoping there's food, Now when they were going to get his handwriting as well, because now was acting oddly, they were looking at him at the same time that durst was an immediate and immediate system because he didn't go to. There were three memorial funeral,
two memorials and is at the writers Guild where she was a member. One was the service at the mall. Julianne Moore her body is, is in. Montel Williams and place and then there was the funeral at the synagogue. He didn't go to any of them, but he offered to pay for them and Oracle one of her cousins. I declined and didn't let him do it so odd, odd stuff? No you! You were talking about jurisdiction and initially yeah. They would have taken this to robbery, homicide and so little Robbie homicide how to pick up the pieces afterwards yeah right. So what did they do? What are they attempt to do and what are the things
They do that. The other well didn't do in in terms of investigation that they sent a CSI team out to the house, which is just to walk around in this. Is that you know some friends clean the floor did already clean the forward. I hope blood was they, I guess black fingerprint, powder all over because that's how they used to do it. Then, instead of like the tape and stuff, they do now and dust the way they do differently and they interviewed, Nile tip took them awhile to get him, they interviewed him at length, got a got a search warrant and in order You get search for it. You've got to have some probable cause durst, they went through his attorney and Texas and
this figure and he's a very nice man? I know him from a trial here in LAS Vegas and and he had easy access to him and he told me Bobby had an alibi, but he didn't give them access to Bobby in her body was going to call him. He was going to do what they did Procter and they called him from the sir this. Instead, where are you and he said, I'm not coming so they talked to him, but they didn't interview him. So my question is and the alibi was that, and I would talk to Dick Deguerin on the phone it was almost like, like Nancy Grace Bombshell, he said Bobby has an alibi. He was in the air on a plane from San Francisco to New York. When Susan was killed. No, he was actually- and I said what day and he said,
Sunday morning. I said: oh, no, that wasn't the day she was killed. That was the day her body was found, rather from Friday night to Sunday morning. So he clearly place by the end San Francisco area. I did and a half before murdering his and as you know, I'm in San Francisco is like a four hour driver so to LOS Angelus and an hour flight. What you talking about you talk about alibi. One thing that we skipped over is that Susan Berman was a little more crucial. Then early telling her friends that Bobbi Durst told her that he did it, but also that she said that she was his alibi. Well with this was the it has. His wife was a medical student and they lived on and in New York, not and in the city,
but they had an apartment in Manhattan, so she was going to go and spend the night in Manhattan and where she would stay for several days during the week while she went to school, but she disappeared that night from a friends house and was never seen again and Bobby had called all angry with Kathy for not coming home, and so she, immediately to go home and was going to catch a train to Manhattan. So Susan, everybody believes made a phone call to the school to the dean of the school to call in sick well, when you're in college calls instead and even the dean at the school said at the time. It was so odd because college students don't call in sick and especially to obtain it was almost like they were trying to place Kathy in Manhattan. The next day, rather than the night before so Susan gave
That was the alibi really because she was seen that morning supposedly and had made a phone call that morning. So she was alive and Durst was out there South Salem home. So how could he have done it Susan had told and people it always question that was probably Susan and please thought that to New York. Please thought it so they wanted to re interview or about it. And who knows it, Susan told them, but it clearly was publicized in the media that they were looking to talk to her again and we
very you know, blowing the lead on that and spilling the beans that they wanted to talk to. Her was really you know. If he's the one who did it, that was the fatal mistake on the part of the police department 'cause, it got hit killed. Yet yes, if he you know, if you just wanted this scenarios possibilities, there was talk of his lawyer presenting offering handwritten sample, and then there was an analysis that it seemed to be. The verdict was inconclusive. Uh now the police are slowly investigating, but not really making any headway. But after about ten months after this something happens involving Bobby Durst and that heightens police interest in him tell us what happens yeah soon,
then couldn't get ahold of him when she was looking for him to borrow money. Little did she know he was living as a in disguised as a mute woman couldn't speak in Galveston very in CD, three hundred dollars apartment and and with his name Never was a man by the name of Morris Black and he had and uh, Do you meant with Morris flag, said Morris came into his apartment, started, branded being a gun and that Bobby took it from and in the body and the Bobby, with a thought up and and and some sort of a nice saw handsaw, both chainsaw and hacks. I believe chopped him up. Put him in paper in plastic bags and dump his remains in Galveston Bay and a man in his son, twelve year old son found the torso floating up
how horrible for that little boy, an Bobby Durst apartment was just. Loaded with blood. In the meantime, he flat he was gone like a bat out of Hell for Susan, didn't know that's where he was when she couldn't find him so he's on he's on salute Lamb at that point, so lap He is like great. You know, will now that he's in custody want one season in custody. Because there was a warrant for his arrest and they got him in pencil. Senior finally stealing a sandwich. He had thirty five thousand dollars in cash or something with him, and he stole a sandwich from a drugstore guess. What was in the trunk of his car? Nine millimeter handgun and same Oliver is Susan, was killed and Galveston Bay with soon as the tv, tiny town, I don't think,
Forensics is are all that grade. They did some testing and said it was inconclusive and I think LAPD should have send it to Qua Niko or something for the FBI to test that they didn't retest, that gun in the bullet to see if they matched. I. I think that was the critical and that could still be done I think that was critical, so body will became an immediate suspect because now he became an immediate suspect because he was a kid the murder, and then he went to trial. He said it was self defense and he was acquitted of murder. Well, the automated. Yes now in terms of have him being investigated for the connection with Susan.
Two police make any headway at all. Well right now, the fbi- and this is just you- know what it is that you have months old, the FBI, because there is a woman in a teenager, one thousand eight hundred and seventeen year old girl missing in San Francisco and so Eureka Semper. The police and then a of former Eureka cop who went to work for the San Francisco PD got a search warrant because there was a they call, it Mister pet potato head that there is not a prostitute who who saw the girl get in a car with an older man drive require that Bobby Durst had been seen in, and I did him. Minnesota lineup, that's the man I saw and in call, drawing mister potato head, and she said it was
Robert Durst, and they showed pictures of Bobby Durst along with some others- and I see picked him out. So they got a search warrant for Robert Durst Bank records and there are receipts from him being in LOS Angelus at the time of Susan's murder, so but that receipts aren't told by two sources up in the LAPD. I'm sorry San Francisco area and one is named in the book. The officer that the receipts that they got from a search warrant from leaders bank records, which I don't know why the LAPD didn't get that and they
handed them over to the LAPD. So it's now a kidnapping case, because the girl up there is in kidnapping. Therefore, it's a federal case there. Now this beds FBI Aids, in LOS Angeles is working with the LAPD and this season Berman case based upon the fact that they can place Thursday in LA and they're working in the case in San Francisco as well. The things take time you know so who knows what will come from it, because it's kind of a task force right now, but did they? I was told that the investigation is of Robert Durst, not just of the cases, but it's an investigation of operators. So whatever else says they've got, I don't know fascinated
Can you write? Yes, you write in the book, though, that when they had him for the murder of his neighbor seventy year old, seventy one year old, black yeah that they had the syndrome of well now that we have am for a major murder and he's going to be locked away anyway. Placing please explain what you were told by now: he pulled out by uh yeah, bye, bye an insider as well as a detective on the case, told me that Yes, as long as they have him in two introduced as long as they have them. You know for murder. Where then he's gone, you know so, whether it's specifically for seasons and then LO and behold he got acquitted and he did
because he was on the land in the flat. You did serve three years in prison for for either eighteen as an arrest warrant on. So you did serve time, but he's been out for a while. He was spotted in LAS Vegas two, which is a little creepy for he said the fly letter, why? What? What he was doing here he's got a place in and and highland, my house or condo, and his family gave him six billion dollar, please. I believe it was to never have anything to do with the Durst organization again, and so
just turn on his own, but with lots of money and and he and his wife. Now you talk about the the the tough times, the up and, down that day everybody at Susan Habit all also Robert Durst had at the from your research was the time that he gave the fifty thousand dollars a time of he did. He was flush with money, or does it makes little has some credence with that this was money that he felt was necessary to keep her mouth shut. After he heard reports he's tripping in money is stripping and he comes from the Durst organization. He worked for the dearth organization, I think they build half of Manhattan. He money he's filthy, rich, and then they paid him. He was living on trust and whatever else
that they give people who are in wealthy families- and I mean money was he could have whatever he wanted anytime. You want had a couple of houses in Sf Lee. How to feel in New York. Money was never an issue for Bobby, so it was like giving her five dollars give her. Fifty thousand was like giving her five. Now later, when there was a falling out with the family 'cause it at first protected him, and they I was told that the Durst Organization, when the LAPD started, calling and trying to talk to Bobby, does that the LAPD and the District attorneys office. We've research BC very stern letters from the Dirst organist,
and to basically leave him alone, and I don't know if that had anything to do with that, but I know that the one detective, the lead detective, took the case to the d A's office twice and was turned down on circumstantial evidence, and there is less evidence in the Oj Simpson trial that the LAPD are that, though LA district attorney prosecuting there was a message left the circumstantial evidence and it's definitely now hard evidence direct evidence based upon his bank records that placed him in LOS Angeles. What is it you know? So I don't know maybe they're out there. Maybe something will come of it. Well, it's still a circumstantial case. If you don't have
a lot of the other ingredients, so becomes it. It's still a difficult case with the smart criminal will say: experience yeah, especially really yeah, exactly he's got the best. I mean you know it did figure in this incredible, but they could do ballistics on that gun and and the casing yeah the bullet, but yeah they just might be, it might be hesitant going. You know against all of their own sloppy work. So you know his attorney could have a heyday with contaminated crime scene and lost opportunities, and yeah I did out on in case, were to go to yeah the assassinated, so tender. You know if, if that, if that, if that ever happens, that's you know. I think Dion Nialler sort of interesting characters. Don't you oh, absolutely
is amazing chock, full of characters that come to life and real story of affluence and again it's a sort of a roller coaster for some people again like Susan, went through the money and then was living a little low more modestly little more and save desperately, but certainly says he was a definite point: yeah yeah yeah. So it's yeah volume, one where ya from where she came from and Susan did it. You know Ruth said that he asked her once you know wanted to get a job and she said it's the only time they had a disagreement Susan was very unhappy about saying that she sort of felt entitled to either. Who me I don't need to work on Susan Berman, you know kind of thing which is is sort of you know it is the you know she was going to keep doing what she was doing, rather than try to get a full time. Writing position some more, and this is fifty five when she left she was very much working. Eight.
Well fifty five once he died rather certainly now I want to. I want to thank you for this. I want to get people to if they're interested in can't acting you. How do you? You have a website devil website, recognized, can't download Facebook, website. They do answer emails. So there welcome to come to my page on Facebook, Kathy Scott ten on face and my Kathy Scott dot com and just hit the contact me and I'm happy to answer their questions or talk to them, and and the book is available on Amazon AN and their house dot com. And it's also available on Kindle and on barnesandnoble dot com, right, a new you are. This is number what, in terms of true crime books, you've written this is five six
So simple picture could find yeah my six true crime book. It's my ninth book and just tell us a few of the other titles of true crime books for people. Listening poppers, the only true crime books on the millionaires wife, which was last year, I had for higher out of Manhattan, fascinating story, Saint Martins Press published at murder and death in the desert about the TED Binion case. I wrote the rough to true crime and the murder Biggie smalls, which is out of print. I am putting that back in print next year, so water for that one and of course my first book be killing this Tupac Shakur yeah, so you've got heavy pedigree there Kathy. Thank you very much I have five slot of rap yeah, actually seem to Trina. I spent for four months down New Orleans and Mississippi, following the hurricane and and with uh,
Agra for and rope operated about, the rescue of animals yeah. That's my check out loud heartbreaking, absolutely yeah, that's great! Well! I want to thank you very much Kathy for coming in talking about murder in Beverly Hills. Congratulations on this new, updated version. It's reads brand new book and the other book was great, and this is this is just fabulous. So I want to thank you very much for coming on talking about that and hope not going up on yours now. Thank you so much town. I appreciate it well. Thank you Kathy and hope to talk to you again real soon about another upcoming project. You have in the works no doubt and wish you the best on this and continued success. So I want to thank you and have a good evening. My pleasure, bye, bye.
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-06.