« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2016-01-13 | 🔗
Investigative reporter, and author of Nobody's Women, Steve Miller makes a thoroughly researched inquiry into a murder that rocked the privileged world of Grosse Pointe, Michigan.Bob Bashara: husband, father, Rotary Club president and community leader.Bob Bashara: slumlord, philanderer and BDSM enthusiast.Did he also hire a hit on his wife?Jane Bashara lived in Grosse Pointe Park, one of Metro Detroit’s wealthiest communities, when she was strangled to death in her own garage by local handyman Joe Gentz. When Joe turned himself in, he told the cops everything— including how he was hired for a hit by Jane’s husband. His payment: $2,000 and a used Cadillac.Born into one of Michigan’s elite families, Bob was sweeping out the back alley of a property he owned when his wife was being killed. He made sure the bartenders at the Hard Luck Lounge saw him there at the time of her murder. He’d often brought girlfriends by the same bar, and for the last year had been seen with one Rachel Gillett—riding around town in her convertible, even showing up at BDSM events in the suburbs of Detroit. .When Joe Gentz confessed, his 67 IQ and barfly reputation made him less than credible. Bob successfully denied any part in his wife’s murder. But he couldn’t deny his attempt to have Joe killed in prison. MURDER IN GROSSE POINTE PARK-Privilege, Adultery and the Killing of Jane Bashara-Steve Miller
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dtk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening, investigative reporter and author of nobody's with,
Steve Miller, makes the thoroughly researched inquiry into a murder that rocked the privilege world of Grosse Pointe Michigan Bob Bashara, husband, father, rotary club president and community leader, Bob Bashara Slumlord Philanderer Ann Bdsm enthusiast, do we also hire a hit on his wife. Jane Bashara lived in Grosse Pointe Park when a Metro, Detroit's wealthiest communities when she was. Angle, to death in our own garage by local handyman, Joe Gans, when Joe turn himself in he told the cops everything. Including how he was hired for a hit by Jane's husband, his payment, two thousand dollars in a used cadillac. Born into one of Michigan's elite families. Bob was sweeping out the back alley. A property he owned when his wife, being killed. He
Make sure the bartenders at the hard luck Lounge saw him there at the time of her murder, he'd often bought brought girlfriends by the same bar and for the last year has been seen with one rate. Gillette riding around town in her convertible, even showing up at bdsm events in the suburbs of Detroit when Joe against confessed. His sick, Fifty seven iq and barfly reputation made him less than credible Bob successfully denied any part in his wife's murder, but he couldn't deny his attempt to have Joe killed in prison. The book ever featuring this evening is murder in Grosse Pointe Park, privilege, adultery and the filling of Jane Bashara, with my special guest journalist and author Steve Miller, welcome back to program and thank you for green, this interview, Steve Miller, thanks for having me
Thank you very much another wild tale, as we were talking before that just before the program. Incredible, let's get to the question that's used to ask all the time and I'll ask you this time. How did you come to be the author of this story. What compelled you to want to write this story? What brought you to this story in particular, will is actually revealing going, I was in the tray quite a bit. I live about seven miles from Detroit. I found myself in the city quite a bit at a certain. And In the story kept popping up when I go- and I was something completely- you I was doing a rock and roll book about Detroit. I called Detroit Rock City's revealing for that doing interviews, and so it was two thousand and twelve who's in the city of Lawton every place? I want anybody. I would talk to you.
Say well, have you been following this uh this Bishara case? You know, and I said no, no, you know pretty busy and it will pretty soon. I started peripherally reading things you know when I talk to mention it conversation with somebody, and so it just kind of crept into my head. You know it just it. It kept. Stick, out this weird in the bdsm stuff was coming out and A friend of mine had a radio show their Caroline. It interviewed some people are getting more more lurid and I just started picking up what it's all and it eventually, I found myself in a position. You know where somebody said they are true crime book that some and, being my publisher and said, I said sure I got something for you and it was one of those things were kind of just said. Well, this is what I got. This is an idea and they said that it's a great idea. Let's work on that. So that's where that's uh! That's right came about now. This book is called murder in Grosse Pointe Park. So obviously that's an important part
of of the story, so explained for our listeners a little just a little bit about Detroit, which people might know about, but Grosse Pointe Park. And what is the difference and just before? don't without giving too much away. What's the significance of murder in Grosse Pointe Park Well, the idea is it's it's interesting because of course you know to let nobody tried, but the the point is they called several small villages that make up the what are called the points and that's traditionally been the exclusive kind of an exclusive on quiet Detroit. It's the place where historically, money went and beautiful homes. The shares, for example, lived on a beautiful street, huge house, and so it's the idea of murder there is is, is very unique
there hasn't been a murder for a few years, and- and you know before that, there hadn't been very diverse either so he's you know this was a. This came came out of the blue those you know, there's an odd thing to have happen, then, to compound that You know you had a actually you had the son of a prominent appellate judge. You know was a former coach at Houston deceased, but yet this the Son of Privilege who was accused, you know his wife was murdered. He was accused of murder. Initially they said well, you know it's always the husband right. So the points are a very ritzy enclave of Detroit. Let's talk about Bob Bashara, you just mentioned that, of course he comes from a family, that's very privileged, but also very respected family in in terms of judicial system
and and Bob has a good rep asian as well at the time of the murder? So let's give us give us a background on Bob share of what is really like. What is he done in his life up to this point, because we're talking about around fifty years of age when we were talking about him in this story. So tell us a little bit about Bob Bush era. Well I mean by this was this: is the Son of George Sir Sure Junior was about say that initially appointed as state appellate and and then he was subsequently elected and is very successful went on to become corporate counsel for a federal mogul, which is a an auto connected to a company, and you know he was in Baba share served as head of the local rotary club is a deacon at it. Piss couple church she was a member of the local country club uses. Golfer is a landlord, yet you know, rather than
show in commercial properties, and he was just kind of a man about now you know everybody knew him is big. Bob day God said his license. Is mom got him a plate, vanity plate, big bob? and he was he was living. Is a big guy? Big presents big boys talking all the time, and uh. You know you see a big personality and some people like them. Some people did, but that was his deal. You know and you could say he was a user born in, to a born into money and he and he stayed with it well tell us about Jane Beshear, she's she's a little bit older than him in age and before we talk about his daughter Jessica
tell us a little bit about how we met James Sherron when they got together. Jane was the Jane was Bob's second wife by the good, married young and and so on. So and so this was a second wife and he met not long after they might not. You know not not too long Divorced by Jane had never been married before and she you know she had graduated from university and she was good students to the business business too. She went on to get a really pretty good job. They met around one thousand nine hundred and eighty three and uh they met at a party and bill. Eighty five they got married and again, Jane Jane came from a fairly middle class. Family Bob came from and uh fluent upper
that family at you know he was, he was a churchgoer family, ordered it ambitious that kind of stuff and and It was a somewhat reserved, if not dignified woman or the grave, So when they married in eighty five is a pretty good, is pretty good marriage. Now they they have uh. Child shortly after Jessica. But you talk about what he described his relationship as to his friends and people that he might. Right in that relationship in that time. The way she described the relationship which was vastly different. Well, but by the time. But then we got to the you know they had two kids: they had two children, one son in one thousand, nine hundred and eighty eight nine daughter in nineteen. Ninety two and I
he his idea of the marriage, of course was he would say it say it's pretty much as things progressed and the children left and so on. Bob had a proclivity towards the bdsm community. Let's see if we get this right, bondage discipline, sadism, masochism, it's a lifestyle based in in those in those four elements and- and so he his deal was, and he always contended that his wife really didn't care. She didn't want to have anything to do with it, but let's let him do what he wants to do. Jane, on the other hand, had told her friends
nothing like that, and not that they're repeating it back to her. But you know there was definitely a difference in opinion. Views of how you know this. This proclivity was viewed in the in the relationship. Further Bob had girlfriends several of them and, as you pointed out the outset, his serious what was ritual gelak who's, a a secretary at Wayne State University, local university there to try no, we talk about this bdm lifestyle, but what I had mentioned that he had expressed the people that had an open relationship and that's what, when you, talk about how he posted on bdsm sites as well. He said, He was a widower with someone in college, and so he was misrepresenting. So it wasn't they are living any life of honesty and how he portrayed himself was that had an open relationship and what she would say to
girlfriends that he was impotent and couldn't get it up. So the the different representation of their relationship. Wasn't there yeah. There was, I mean, let's face it you, it's not you're not going to go in the bdsm sites. You know Master Bob married Father, two in the videos. Yeah yeah. I don't know, I don't know you know, that's not really it. You know, that's not pulling a lot of lot of partners, but Master Bob's. You know widowed or whatever. That sets. A little bit more sympathetic. I mean there was a lot more course, there's a lot more more it that ad yeah, but each year we witchy details. What he can do is the dominant dominant one, it cetera, etcetera he's. He sees
Quite the man is, if you're a sauce, you know if you, if you would read his, is posted online. What I found was she had had the dungeon to in a sense. What I found fascinating, we'll talk about the dungeon right now too, is that what I found fascinating was this guy. That, as you portray in the book, is not really like, but a lot of people mislead, allowed miles. Coke snorting blowhard here from for a lot. People, including the landlord and we'll talk about, what kind of landlord is too but he's on the lower level of landlords? And being appreciate it as a good landlord, but getting back to this you know Master Bob for Guy, that's important. I just found it fascinating again. I had no idea that we're talking about lifestyle where there's these women again, not too many
I think, he's that great. But there are women on this site that think he's incredible and are willing to be submissive to him. But despite that, they're just they're, not it it's their very, very charmed by this guy and he's a master. Despite being. Totally impotent. It's is very fascinating to me so very little bit. Master Bob is That is add one of his address that Master Bob complete trainer. I will will it rain and guide you in this lifestyle? If what you seek is learning to doing that, I'm here and look for you to come to me Neil and have all your desires cravings opens to you. Are you the master Bob. I will make you and enjoy a lovely mix of pain and pleasure. So I guess it is. This just goes to show that someone out there for everyone. Now it is, it is oldest child, Jessica
You also talk about Jessica, knowing what's going on in the relationship between their parents and to the point of reading his text that tell us about this exchange in the home. Yeah, and that was you know. That was really on comfort. I mean it understand to think about that that she's reading please text and so on, and and So I don't know it was you know it was kind of like you know she would see these and they they were text to his girl. And and so on, and then then, what's worse, is he explained her that he had elect? You know some sort of erectile dysfunction, thank God, and so
well yeah, you know, and and and to top that off. So she she's not like what she sees. She said something on his cell phone message, something about get down on your knees, give me head blah blah blah. So this is something that the share of Bob it sent to a woman and then I think it goes and takes the phone takes in the shows him and she's like what is this? What you still wouldn't? He just takes it and and uh delete. The message saying goes: I don't want you talking quote: It's a very weird way to act. I don't quite you know it's that's brutal! Now part of this lifestyle. He, has another twist to it, or maybe this is a common part of the Bdsm lifestyle they try to bring in a third person that is the green. To these terms as well and all three connect
and because it's online there isn't a physical, their meeting at coffee shop right away. So there's this meeting so tell us about Rachel and tell us about another person named porter. Before we talk about women because of all these characters do come into play and much more importance later on. Tell us about Rachel and tell about this. A person named porter and. Some some of the well one of the major events that happens in the book. Well, he button that says this woman named Anita Porter, yes site you know and and and the need to porter, say single moms forty. She had some sort of financial problems, you know Bob you don't talk about it, know he's I can help. You know that she even said She said that while he was looking for a submissive and that she needed food and shoes for kids, and so really
she is she she somehow be game, like you, know, part of this little family, I get Bob pass it off as he was trying to help her. You know this kind soul who was helping Banita Porter and she she went to church even with his family and and even you know, cat Bob gifts at Christmas, but actually they were having You know so we're kind of like in a kind of an odd kind of way to have in a relationship I mean. I don't know really what that the elements of it will rooted in bdsm 'cause. That was their whole deal, so I mean they've gone to church together and We also join their local rotary club because Bob said: hey, it's great to meet people, blah blah, blah and, and so one hundred day Bob has. I
It also has a you know, is hanging out with Rachel as well, and so somehow Bob in a weird thing, arranged to meet Rachel. In Banita at the same time and to them that they are mad at this this place and somehow you know who knows, you know that what is he was thinking, but but she he said it, so that to would walk in on him and Rachel having sex at this this place and because it's very strange you know an odd thing to do- it was brutally here about because. And I can't hear it you're? Looking at somebody and it's kind of an odd callus kind of thing and inhumane, but that was an odd episode. Not so you MECCA relating court. Nobody could believe they. That was just you know, but again this this whole case. Every time I,
I wrote something on this every time. I started writing things that could be ready to reading and back, and I think it just doesn't even seem plausable, but you know- and I have to go back and read my notes again or did I just imagine that search truly happened: they really somebody that does this kind of stuff. Now meanwhile, in the relationship, because when we let's talk about what at the same time is happening simultaneously. This is a fascinating part of this book that the relationship is having with relate with Rachel, which is, is bdsm partner, heart and he's also talking about other plans outside the is bdsm, mostly fantasy world, but real, concrete plans of cohabitation- and I guess height with romance, but anyway, we'll we'll we'll get you to talk about that, but at the same time, what's going on with Jane in the house, so we talked about Jessica, knowing the
her father, was beyond strange, but that Jane was moving towards a divorce. So tell us about these, simultaneous situations and how he represents to both parties. Well I mean what happens. Is what happens is that? Yes, you know, Jane is she's a she's considering that kind of thing and she's not yet at that point, she's not really ask your friend with kind of a kick she's start. Inquiring inquiring, her friends. What's it like to be single again, you know she decimals are freshly divorced friends and so on so forth, and then finally, she actually decided that she was going to try to build the whole thing back with with Bob that was her intent. That was Jane was you know, I'm getting bored of work went to wear to make this this work, and so on.
Were taken trips, interest together and you know having fun and she you know than they actually toward the end of the for Jane was murdered. They were actually having things were. Ok, and meanwhile, though Bob is, looking at houses and promising ritual, it's going to be divorced soon and Actually she thought he was divorced and and that you know they're going to move in together and live happily over here, they're, actually Looking at houses, it's in Grosse Pointe, you know, as a cup. And they're, also going out on a actually like a couple and in like again in the same small, relatively small area with,
any encounters is amazing in the book too they're looking at a home and they encounter the friends of Jane and Bob and again he's a smooth talker in house is kind of talk. His way out of that one as well, so he's very glib he's very good. This guy, isn't it yeah he's just out, and I think that was part of his things as well. Did everything I mean we just. I guess you know it's. Alright. She must know about a car ever said mid shop. Like you know, like Kroger in the end yeah right there and not enough of it rather far from our house. Let's talk about finances to what was Bob to be in terms of his wealth to someone like Rachel and what was the real situation. How well it was he doing financially or not? Well, he he would say that he was each
He was doing all right said he. You know he got plenty of money. Fact is he was overly leverage she had here at these properties. You know they will actually here in richer, we're. Looking at this house, it was worth over three and you Actually what happened is his mom had was helping him all financially periodically. Not not hey there kind of run out he's gonna run that that out and Jane was the breadwinner she's making. You know, she's, making six figures, and, and so they definitely had enough money to to survive. This is Bob was doing his thing with this now as Laura properties and and someone making a couple, little pain pretty well, but in general he was
Porn his weight in terms of finances, but again he was overly leveraged if he would've cashed in Phillips on this property, probably with seeds in body but but yeah Jane was the breadwinner. She had the money and kebabs. You know one by would talk about. Generally, you talk to friends, he's talking to friends It is divorced and he said it's just going to be so expensive. I could divorce what he really meant. Was I'm not going to have any more money yeah now, let's talk about Bob and his properties now he's this guy. That seems to give guys, as you talk about in the book, a couple guys he's given a break to which end up interesting in the story. Guys have been known to be ex cons to give him a break, get some an apartment
an example is another guy that needs a break. This Jill Gantz tell us about go against with AZ at the end and tell us what kind of predicament he's in an bob comes to his aid. Tell us about that was your gas is just kind of a roustabout the guy. He say you know, how do you say it's just kind of this guy who was it had just kind of a rough life he's, as I say in the book, it says he was kind of a he didn't. He was low iq. He had anger issues he was not a bad guy. This is not a guy who was everybody said. Oh man he's just crazy, yeah he's a user killer. We did have some violent tendencies, but they don't want
Frustration, I don't think they were born of aggression. He grew up in a working class community. He was a big guy. This huge huge dye is, is so Foot four, maybe even bigger than that broad shouldered just huge just so you know, it became as out of school. He became cameras of a kind of a. Travel around. He was a yeah. You worked on a ship. You know he worked on a something called the Overseas Philadelphia shipping tanker and he picked up They picked up a easy union. Labor there are the deck down on the deck for about five years and Davis Park. In hard and so on. He had some sort of injury claim and he took took a little bit of cash from that. He drifted over to DC sister and then he went over. Then he ended up back to
Michigan and he got married had it kid had a daughter, and that was a big deal to him. He had a daughter, they mother, they got divorced and they lost the kid and and so on and at the time he was, he met. Bob is introduced in Bob is a guy who could do some work for him yeah. I had a man. Five meters handyman always did and at the time job against was trying to get custody of his daughter trying. Where is daughter and he needed the money real bad. So so that's where he was he's kind of a desperate guy. We met it's kind of a desperate guy when he met Bob. You need a place to live, he's being evicted from his apartment and Now he had yeah. I think he had a little disability and you know payment, that's about it, and you talk about in the book that just two for the rec
which incredible is between September and January, was four hundred and seventy phone so they were inextricably involved. These guys weren't there there. But they were talking a lot Bob told me and by the way, fire this alot of this book and includes conversations because I talked to Bob to share a quite a bit, and that was one other thing we go back to the beginning. Salem major direct. This book is the access to Bob. The sheriff,
He- and I say this- he's always insisted he did not have anything to do with the murder of James share. Even after he's convicted. He said I had nothing to do with this murder. Historians say the same. The story stayed the same from the time I talked to him initially to the time to just recently when he was in court on the stand saying he had nothing to do with this murder. But Bob talk to me throughout this whole thing: we exchanged emails and talked on the phone quite a bit. So all this information. I get is a lot of distance, just this from Bob telling me telling me it's kind of these kinds of things just about exactly what happened so after I did that just now went off on that tangent. I forgot the question so here we what fascinating it is fast. Eating addition to the book to that you have those email, and then you said that it.
It became easier to have phone calls and then you have those transcribing and put in the book for the most part, two I I know for the most part, but some some really interesting stuff and read. Relations and conversations that are included in this book as well. Let's get back to again, I don't know anything really about the bdsm lifestyle and it's not like I'm interested in the lurid details. Are that I'm interested in the seriousness of murder, and these other things might be interesting. But if this is important to the story and also again one of these things I didn't know about, and I find again that you know hauntingly involved in this. Is this and you can explain what this is this breath play through parts of the bdsm lifestyle? It's which kind of shocking to me this breath play and what's involved in that, and also this Addition of another character is very important to the story in her name is Limon
again other person, but as a third but was contacted again, this is online. So they don't live in the same area. So tell us about this Lehmann person and also just a couple of the things that, Are characterized by this bdm less lifestyle that I don't know seem to be part of the story? If we're talking about strangulation, Well, bdsm bondage is really I we can go off the record fully of four letter acronym, it's bondage discipline, submission stated a it's going to us. A sexual version of dungeons and there's a huge element of fantasy and on crypt predictability, supposedly fulfills, without harming anyone which leads to breath play which is choking someone out to the point
unconsciousness and then allowing them. They come back, and I supposed to heighten sexual awareness and so on. Oddly, this is serial killers. Engage in this and breath play. Take a victim kidnapping, victim and choke him to the point of o'clock of death and, and let them come back. It's kind of interesting that the connections between breath play between both Google Bdsm and in the World the murder? So so that's that's what the bdsm thing entails. In a nutshell, JANET Limon was a was a woman in Oregon. She live little town in bend or and she,
it into the lifestyle and on website and what they. What violent Rachel adds. Fantasized about is having a at three ways, especially a relationship, a household kabobs, the master and he serve two women and somehow it's. This is supposed to be great for everyone involved, and so you know JANET Lemon talked with talk with them on the phone- and it was agreed that Bob we go out and later, and so he fooled to Oregon and JANET extensively for the for the book, and she in this was a nightmare. The Bible is was routed, gray yes, if and put everyone off, including her and they had sex in it with a nightmare and the whole thing she couldn't wait to get rid of. Given her dogs in like it.
Yeah have a visceral reaction. Yes sure, right now, by the time that Lehmann is in the picture, though things have changed, and why did she have? Why was she so smitten with them in the first place in in? Why, specifically what she again, then afraid of them? Actually you mean JANET yes yeah, because he was well. He was straight. I mean really strange for one thing, but I mean she she wanted to she she actually after he left. He kept clients you, he kept trying to get back with her and you get. The evidence is a point where he was almost stalking, her you're calling
for all the time and so on and just trying to trying to trying to get her to get it get into this whole whole relationship thing and she was really yeah. She was really upset by this whole the whole thing, because she had almost been strangled to death by this guy, and so you know the triage thing was not going to workout and, and so that was that was Janis. Take on this whole thing, but. Now. Let's talk about just the events leading up to the day in question, with Jane we share and Joe Gantz and tell us all the surrounding events that preclude the event the murderous event itself. Well, I mean
when you think about it? The murder really came out came out of, I but of course nobody really expected it. You know I mean, as they got tored the day of that he was kind of he was kind of cracking a little bit he was is, is obsession with Rachel was, is sexy? What is bdsm less though he was so obsessed with all this stuff. He fell behind on his country, club dues, you he took out at one point he had taken like ten thousand dollars from wanted. James retirements account retirement accounts, without asking her. He was watching. He was obsessed with internet pornography, and so it was all this all these things were starting to kind of. I don't know just trying to return to come to a head eh.
At the end of December or early January. I believe it was in end of December. He went to North Carolina to a wedding with Rachel rituals are actually was getting. I was getting married and Bob Box went down there with their and just like he was the guy. You know in the in the relationship and and so on, so and Rachel is just totally in love with Bob, and so they went down there to this is kind of thing and so on and so forth, and everything was you know, but but he was also talking to no. He was talking to Joe guess obsessively almost because they were, they were planning the service murder. Children want to do it till would tell his friends use posing what else, even the people that he that he knew. Then what if somebody asked you to kill somebody for this amount of money, Replace said: well, that's crazy! That's crazy and.
And so, as we lead up to it, you had a frenzied activity as far as so how cell records it cell phone calls and Yeah, so it was really- and you know, of course you know Jane had no idea. This was, of course, had no idea, so Mister husband, after all,. How is he portraying? How was Bob Bashara portraying the need of the necessity to kill his wife and what other car, intimidation was other than he was in dire straits eventually, but what kind of intimidation, process or and tactics did Baba share, employ over this dimwitted, sixty seven IQ guy in desperate situation, Oh, he was just he was trying to tell him. You know these. You know he was trying to use turn a bully him essentially into just saying you know.
In the same way, you know you don't know what you know there was. There were kind of things like Joel it'll. Take this back chill Jenn said always been like this guy, who was call. What do I wanna say he was kind of he like to take dares. He would do anything to get attention. He just wanted wanted people to like him and that kind of thing- and so you know he was you really just don't wanna. You know he you brings on a dare in this case he was yeah. He was kind of. I don't know. I was just kind of really mean really really pushing him. He really said. I really want to do this. I really want You know I really want you to do this and he kept he kept pushing him. He said you know, and it turns out that you set him up to come, no set it up to come on over to the house. You and Jane would be home and against you know
He was telling me you want this money, I'm going to pay. This money did And initially it said it was going to be six thousand, then it got down to two thousand, but but gets really needed, really really needed. The money. The price we mentioned in the opening was around. Two thousand dollars for close to two thousand dollars and a used Cadillac correct. An ulcer at lax right at one point had talked about six thousand against it by Penn telling people he was going to get is going to come into six thousand dollars in a car you know who knows he had. He had a confused, but but no no matter what and he said against later later study the sheriff told me said: I want you to knock my wife. I want to kill her you look like an accident and then in the share started by against the department. So why haven't you taken care of it
You know Bob, you know it might not be for me is that I need you to take care of it and yeah Eileen did it. He played up on that Joe against, Is interested in maintaining his relationship with his foster daughter. And so that was initial in that he saw that insecurity. Wasn't it that he knew he needed money. For that I don't overlap. He he knew that yeah. He was you know, dangling that in front of you, really you don't, but at the same time this year was more of a just a little graph for in that he just said. I need you to do this yeah, you got to do this. That was it, and I was really worry, was that was.
They talked about the invite to the house where Jane was there and then how they maneuvered her into the garage or how it happened that she was in the garage and what was said in because, obviously, like you say, Bob is maintained. His innocence, so would it really is obviously there's only one witness, and what did he say was said to him. Tell us take us to that murder scene itself. Well, they got as it comes on. This is according to Joe Jensen, this is his. You know it was a for sure had told density. Some some help moving some boxes at the house and it's around six hundred and thirty and and against got there and Jane was home and Bob told him. There was some boxes in the garage and the
We're in the garage talking and Jane came out to the garage and there's stuff everywhere you see a picture to the garage is jam packed and she was angry with Bob Bob had done. You know had crap everywhere it some golf clubs and boxing and supporting against golden gun and held, and I against and said you gotta do this now you gotta do this now and, and that was it and against dropped, are with a punch and crushed her throat with this work, boot yeah couple times, yeah.
Then what they do put her in the back of her Mercedes Suv, gender in there and against drove it to this part of Detroit really bad part. It really really bad party tray ' 'cause. I did door knocks over there just to find out if there's anybody around and saw anything or do anything talk to anybody and it was bad artist right and they just dump the car there Is done is done, I mean really. This is a block where you know. Maybe you have three boarded up houses and then one actually working and then you left be more boarded up and the one that's working and- and it's just totally trashed- I mean
alley. In fact, with the allergy partners right off the street, you could see it, which is why the tow truck driver, which opens the scene I talked to the guy who found the car just like this is just sitting there. You find dump cars all the time. You don't find a Mercedes, and so he saw that you know it's not the car and you do something something's going on and but it just let it run and they just took off and then against against park. It took. Our walk, they had a little thing was guess was walking and you want to win Donald Sony cameras. You know they follow the video camera in that going lined up perfectly with the times now. The police know that this is a crime scene and likely nobody disturbs it to much, but we won't get into
too much because it just seems to be a reoccuring theme. A lot of times is that uh, not exemplary evidence gathering was employed by the police department. You talk about the new, be sort of rookie. Grosse, Pointe Park, police, small force, zero experience and then Detroit Police is police. Department's involvement just tell us a little bit about. Maybe what was not really handled so well in terms of talking.
Clothing yeah yeah? Well, what you've done is with you, but you had it. The the the body was dropped in a jurisdiction Detroit to be handled by the Troy Police Department, which is a pretty good department. I mean if people handle crimes all the time and they don't they're that there there they have the same problems. Any big bureaucracy doesn't Detroit that's manifested times ten because Detroit, but they do, they can do some crime, some crime, the crime investigation, but one of the german that Jane was murdered elsewhere and was traced back to Grosse Pointe Park. That becomes the department handles murder problem. Is these guys were terrible? They didn't have any experience in it, an not only that, but they were just just really really bad at it.
And and not only that, but I guess the worst part was they will they were, they were really bad at it, they hadn't had a murder there, since she was one thousand nine hundred and ninety two and. And not only were they bad at it, but they didn't even take direction very well because in a case like this, the the county is Wayne County. And what the county prosecutor's office has jurisdiction to prosecute? in the eventuality at the murder, is found, and so on and so forth, but they couldn't even take direction from the Wayne County prop. Speakers, often saying hey, you need to do this. You need to do that. They just shined all this stuff. They just they wouldn't even do it. They won't even do some interviews. In fact, there were leading even get change clothes. They failed to get to retrieve the clothes
from the funeral home and the Jane was wearing when she was murdered and she was it oh and they lost those. They didn't get the There was a security camera in the alley or Bob used as his alibi and I was in this alley. Cleaning up with this murder happened. It could never been part of this. They did. You know they never even got the the video to you, see what went on in that alley and see if they could get prove it to Bob's theory was correct and I got. The video in time was taped over by the time. They wouldn't think to get that, so they made all kinds of mistake and again they were kind of arrogant about it too. So you know you got stupid, combined with Eric and she got a real. No, tell us about how police do proceed Anne. How do they come to find out here? Was it tips? How did they find out to hear a little bit more about you know despite his going to,
church in the rotary club president that there was a much different side to Bob Bush, Well, this is even better against goal, isn't turning himself in about six weeks later, bye weeks later, he turned himself and tried to turn himself in at the Grosse Pointe Park Police and they say they don't they don't keep all this guys crazy. So the later. I you know when the soul, but essentially they they everybody reconsiders, and they said what do you guys? Not you? You know they look check it out followed up the rest in a little while later guest says sure, maybe do it. Tastes tells the whole story, and but he confesses, so I did it. You know, but the publisher of set me up to do this and
and so on, and so it's pretty easy then, but before anything, Can happen Bob the shared besides 'cause Joes confessed he's in jail already waiting sentencing, but decides that he probably should put out a hit on job. Yes, because sure we axes in a lab well, Bob's reasoning. Is
the guy to kill my wife, everybody else's reasoning as children, so gonna spill, the beans on Bob, so Bob decides he better set up a hit on the job which allows it and Bob goes to a local used appliance salesman, which I guess where everybody goes we get set up ahead, your house yet and local clients salesman, say sure I can help. You then goes the f B. I wears a wire at the phone. Bob is arrested for soliciting murder against now. The what's interesting is that we skip through a lot of great juicy stuff in there as well, because you you talk about the of used appliance guy, but really a sort of a don Wanna, be if I can use that, you know, he's Elisa
Don Wanna be and what what? As you again, I like the sarcastic tone that you have in there, because the story is kind of ridiculous in some ways it's and nobody would write fics journal stuff that this humorous he's running right away. This Don wannabe guide to the fbi- and it's not just altruistic intentions either. Is it no well Steve. Guys name is Steve and yeah he was the he was. I think it's just an interesting. This is the character, is a you know, you know the odd part, but it is what it is. How is he going to murder? You know they're talking about how does he get a murder, and this is all heard in court how's it going to kill Geoghan well I'll tell you what we could poison the food glass and the salt shaker here now this kind of thing-
a grenade launcher. I who knows, and somehow he just he just you know. Somehow Bob Share believes this. You know. So and then not only that, but Bob asked a couple other people and then by you know Bob? You know he was asking around. You know how do you? How do you do this and that kind of thing, but the Thibodaux um? Well obviously, Cabanela Timit was not the guy from set up the murder, because she he took the yeah. He went right to the FBI. Now he has to get something really worthwhile and obviously the police know the kind of content they need to be able to put this guy away. Bashir is serious. Enough of this: the go, give him the two thousand dollars down payment on the twenty thousand dollars and like a state
even though has to really elicit a worthwhile confession. So tell us about that exchange that he tries to get any does get between the two. Well, let me try to think about this and this girl. He said he was he was What are you doing is complaining talking about you know they. All these conversations talking about You know the Lane County prosecutors office is coming by and yes he, it was a twenty thousand dollars, price tag with gave a few thousand dollars down. If the job didn't get done this year will get his money back. This is all on tape, so you know, and so and but it is also- I will say this on the tape. Also, a share is continually saying: he'd, never hired
go to kill his wife he's telling. He said this on the tape that was really kind of you know again, there's some weird consistency. There, like it used to insist that there's never never happened, but finally about killing killing Joe. He finally says: ok, let's do this, the sooner the better. And pretty much you know, and they talk about the money Monday I'll, be there and- and so you know, essentially he you know he got. You know money bogus invoice clients, two thousand dollars down payment to at twenty thousand dollars with the fuck, what the fuck, where those appliances and That was it. It was ready to go. Which also laughable almost fictional sopranos is. Is that Bob sure is a is a suspicious creature and figures. His buddy might be wired, so he's patting him down old old.
School style. The way looking for wires, it would appear if you were wired twenty years before so very, call Clark Street yeah. He said Bob says feeling he says, Well, if you're wearing a wire kill me now past experience with I'm gonna wearing wires. Yes, like I don't know where I mean is true, it's like this is a dialogue, and if it is, it spoke like they. Both will watch way too much way too much scraps. Yes, very funny. So now so now how to police proceed with this again, we talked about not the best sort of process to be able to prosecute these people of course, Joe gets, gives him the huge gift. And again it's almost comical. We skipped over that a little bit too, because when he does go into the police station, the guy told them. Listen, there's no detective on today. Right now, once you come back around eight which, yes can you can't write
that stuff it's pretty funny and then, even when he came back, they tried to talk him out of giving a statement in and it wasn't just you against. It was is very credible guy that went with them which you implore, the police, that hey listen. Do you don't understand see this case? That's huge! This guys got. This is the confession so they're very reluctant to even respond to that, which is again, comical yeah, it is it is it is it strange. This is. This is for his friend trusted this guy and dance kept on, and you know, use just yet rebel and that and so on and finally yeah this guy Stever GonNA when in one of them and and said you. This guy gives us he's running. In persona is a little better spoke right,
And so, and he's known is known against for a long time, but it took him into the police department itself and, and get up early, it is like you know, they are right. You'll get a credible that the offer Joe against again, it's incredible to me. Come from Canada. When I hear these american deals, it's like sixteen to twenty eight years as the deal if he testifies against them and and first they have to see if he's fit to stand trial which he clears that hurdle yep? Now Jill dances are pretty sympathetic, there. Are a lot of people have helped the mode over the years 'cause they think he's a pretty likable guy the police are pretty sympathetic and believe they got a pretty good witness. That's not the only witness they have, but there the counting on Joe gets to a great degree. Aren't they with this he's going to be the key witness and
go to say anything on that they gave him a deal. Second degree murder. This is clearly first degree. I mean this is a great a pot be for murder. This call may first degree murder charge and they let let him plead on into the early game. Second degree, murder and seventeen to twenty eight, and but there was the agreement that Joe gets for testify as to everything he had told the cops and the trial came around and show against sudden not going to the reason is a bunch of people when the jailhouse got into his head and said you should be getting a better deal than this? You know, I don't know you know, I'm pretty sure prisons are filled with get out regal geniuses, but some of not bad. You know but clearly had some bad advice and he was going to be
seventeen to twenty eight years there he wanted out and Joe is not getting along in prison at all Either is having a hard time we had a lot of, but a lot of writeups, but so essentially he was out in terms of testifying made the prosecution job very difficult. Hum, make for a long trial and made for the lengthy group of witnesses, because you had to make up for the lack of gets you so had very capable attorney that came on board, not read at the beginning, but eventually David, Graham, if that's the way you pronounce his name, came on board and he did his best to do that. You know the pre trial, felicity and make sure that he tried to do damage control for his clients name and was another interesting part of your book is how much the the the the tactic of the police and the prosecution together to leak.
Information purposely quickly and to bolster their prosecution and in depicting Bob share as this deviant and the lifestyle and playing it up, and then you also talk about how reviled Bashira becomes in even places that he is a landlord for. So talk a little bit about that. Please well, first of all, the Detroit, the prosecution Wayne County in the Detroit Police Department did a great job of demonized I'm Bob the sheriff through his reviews. You said through leaks and uh and so on in the book like Chronicle a lot of these leaks and how they they place these at good times, and they were they at the same time they were taking all of Bob's resources, every resource they could get. He had any. Of course none of James Money could go to him. She had something like eight hundred thousand dollars,
distribution, Wolber, Ireland, 401K's and he couldn't get access to that the so they took the house and took the proceeds from the house. And then so he had really no resources and they did a great job of demonising. I love this team and I think that the share, so public sentiment was cool really against him. No matter what and up. And and yes I've got a uh when he could pay for alert. You got a very, very good defense learning David Grimm, and this is at the outset of the case, and this is before before, but she was arrested for soliciting in a murder and and finally, a gram. They ran out of money. I think the ground backed off the case that the neighbor fired by the family- your number now, but yes, so it was. It was a masterful job
of of the cops in in terms of how they approach the prosecution in nature that we had very little resources because the wealthy defendant who's going to give you a lot of problems now with the Bobbi Shearer in we, we talked about Joe Gantz than that falls Tell us about Barbara Scherer after Dave, Graham and the solicitation. Again. What was interesting is that both of these people have spoken to so many people, Joe against to people before he ever did anything that he was going to get a couple of one thousand dollars in a cadillac. He told the woman
And Bob a share of webmaster bunch of people or numerous people about certain things involving this and made certain statements. So how do police proceed to try to deal with Bob Shearer In this case, in this truck or what they did, was they rounded up a bunch of people that the share it talk to you later on the one? because the one guy where he talked about how you know this guy, you know they. He said Bob told him right in the car that that, essentially you don't that he did it. He was he murdered yeah. You know that he had killed and. And and then here they got his cellmate, who asked he's talking about. I you talking about you, know, yeah. I was talking. You know these about the beach
GSM and so on and so forth. Hey just talked about uh. Now he was. They what they did was they rounded up everybody that Bob talked about case and in some cases he said I had put out a hit on my wife. I had my wife killed. Other people said he had talked before this whole thing went down about a divorce, how it's way too expensive to get it of and an happy was and so on and so forth. There everybody out through it in the courtroom. They all get up on the stand and testify and it works, convinced the jury and the but I gotta say I was there, it was. It was very, very convincing. What was Barbara, Sher's demeanor in coordinates, behavior? If any, you this year, which is part of share it,
as you know he had couple medical problems. Understandably during trial stress he was. He was animated, it be doing things like he wants the one where the guys the prelim their exam. He like touching he's touching his heart Rachel had get had to get up on the stand to testify end date, Bob this touching his heart and who knows what that means. I don't know, but the judge says You know the judges quit quit doing that and Bob says. Well, I have a rash on chest. You know just he's just weird. Now another point to have? Some sort of eye surgery or something into his eyes. He comes into the courtroom with these big, huge glasses and he's just just use it with you know, of course this is like the you know, he's on trial for his life and so anybody is going to be a little strange in those circumstances that
the demeanor, was used by this year, almost like the guy that you would the guy they were talking about understand. He was a strange strange guy. Now initially his mother was bankrolling lawyers for him, as if I under and the book correctly and yet was support of of her son, and so was his daughter Jessica. You don't talk too much about the sun as much, but when did that change and why, thanks for well hey it wasn't it that this woman going you know it was not alone say this in turn. Thank God put this. There was a gun and bomb it always to it, and I this is a big deal. There was a gun. I
that five head Bob Twenty never had a gun, and this is kind of convoluted now make it as simple as possible, but a gun was found. Bob had somehow put a gun. In a safe deposit box. The gun was found and that changed the whole thing for the family really when they found this gun on the safe deposit Box, nobody knew where it came from, it wasn't theirs and uh. I got the impression and that I think they God stays at that point. They kind of said. You know he might have done something bad now. That was, I think that was the main thing. And they found that when they found that gun um it was just you know, he told Barbour, told reporters. He said the only gun he had was a BB gun.
And in may- and that was that- and I think that was about the time the money ran out, but was now going to be back on his own because that's when he started getting court appointed. What was the. Exchange and the testimony of Rachel like, and well, I'm sure you looked over at at Bob to see. The reaction. But what The dynamic like tell us about that. It was. There was nothing to it, in some way that I'll say Groeschel did let's say he. They didn't, may they made really very little contact the actually
spoke about him having his heart. That was when Rachel is not stand, and but but no, but there was really nothing. You know but there is no contact Bob, even Bob POP said to me something I can't forget what it was currently live- Now you have a preliminary exam before you go before a judge ordered it to trial. Where you have a prayer witnesses testifying against the judge, decides if it's got enough merit to go,
trial well during the preliminary exam, Rachel came in and testify, and I talked to Bob later on. He said: oh yeah, you know Jesus too bad Rachel's kind of put on weight and I feel bad for stuff. Like that point. That is nothing to say. You know why you say that kind of stuff, but that's when he was patting his heart thinking. Instead, I have a rash, but no Rachel did a great job. Never looked at Bob at all, only do identify your correspondence is very interesting in this What can you conclude it and you, as you stated previously, that he denied denied denied? So what did you get? What pearl of wisdom did you get that you didn't know through all this research and everything that you sat through terms of evidence. What did you gleam from it? What did you get from it from the whole? The whole case, the overall
away from the kings. Well, I'm not from the interview with him specifically for the Okay, I think I'm still struck. I think the one thing that always strikes me is consistency. Consistency is such an invasive thing. It's always you know, especially in a crime you're telling the same story over and over? I don't know anybody could come back. Do that. I don't know how you do that, but I still am kind of struck how he just has the same still sorry every time this is what happened. This is. I had nothing to do with this at the same time. The evidence is overwhelming. The lies are profiled lies that he tells her profound that, if he's just like it seems like he's made to lie about the house. He's got a weird excuse about everything. You know I'll tell you something. When I first started doing this book, I talked to a guy, I kind of know. I prefer and then the Detroit Music Community- and he told me,
he was the guy who is manager of the hard look lounge, which is a bar. That was in a property that Bible and he said that one time he met Bobbitt Bachelor Party and Bob, went into the men's room at the Strip joint and pulls out some cocaine, and the guy if he wants to do a line, and the guy says no. No no share was a weird character that and then we get into this further into this case, and I think oh that's weird, it is a guy. Is the son of a judge he's like this? Suburban, it's kind of get ahold. Father of two is is really straight guy then we here in testimony that bothers buying, like huge amounts of cocaine disconnect, but this is you know one day I said to Bob, I said Bob: did you buy that cocaine? He said I never bought any cookie. I'm fucking, you know it would have been at the guy on the stand, steady block, cookies gone, it was going, way back to. When I talk to this initial witness
who, by the way, never testified that he told me that it struck me is so I And you know and then that that just to me in my head is a man thought to share it just keeps lying, you know, and so it's very confusing. You got a guy telling the same story over and over and over and over, and yet you watch you You can catch him in a lie. Just in a split second is a very mixed bag. Well, isn't it pretty simple lie, though, because I mean he trotted it out to as you talk about in the when the guy was wired, to the Delaware Board of his life that hit he they had him wired, and so he was. He had him on tape, saying over and over again like he was trying to tried it out in terms of. I didn't do this this guy, did. I don't know why he did this he's a crazy guy he's a loose cannon. I'm and you know it wasn't at
version of what actually happened. It wasn't anything like that. It was somehow on on his own. This guy took something very innocent, completely wrong and then went and on his very own did something crazy. Is that how we sort of represented it on tape? sort of yeah yeah he did, although when I got out of there, was the yeah you're right and and to me And again I look at it and I think well. He you know, the main thing is he's just he just continues to say you know if you knew how he it's something like hi. If I knew how crazy he was I never would have got involved with things like that spell. Oh, ok, that makes sense and again what the sheriff told me at one point is he said well, after all, I mean who blames me for try
Will it have try to put a hit out on the guy who killed my wife? You know a lot of people do that. You know that said. Ok, that's fine and I never sit in judgment. I would always say So I wanted to listen. Is it for you mention and in the stories to that a woman gives, I think, Rachel, I believe, from not correct a book called the Social pass next door, trying to explain Bobbi Shearer and his behavior. It isn't as part of this narcissistic thing that you know this. This importance that Bob has, of course someone killed, is, wife, of course, he wanted to avenge his wife's death now to kill this guy, and so it's always about, of course. In them it's this a self centered and portents of these people, always in fact the the prosecutor's office handed
not that book sociopath next door to the families of the victims. Family been James Family and then you know, everybody that was and I don't believe they gave it to Rachel, because I care Rachel Rachel but yeah it is it this comes back to being about them and I don't have much experience with sociopath, so I don't really know but yeah. He fits the you read that book and you realize that he fits it to at that self absorbed and there's also something to this and the consist consistency. He actually probably believes everything he says you know he could. Very I mean that's why you have that consistency. He told himself this story and a sociopath can just continue to convince himself of that. This is actually the truth. I did not do that. I did not have it
one thousand felons and urban holy Crap said he did fail, though that's the yes, that's the that is, of course, not polygraph, and you know I don't know polygraphs can be beat, they can be taking your false positives. I don't put much stock in those, but yes, he did feel one, and then you know it was also weird. You know you see the footage of in the interviews after his wife was killed and he's handling it very? Strangely yeah we talked about how she's smoke pot, and so on and I think he had surmised something I don't know, but that was connected to she'd come in contact list, rated pictures you know, buying weed or something like that, but yeah, there's all very hot and but his demeanor in those those those interviews initially were very strange. Little disconnected
It's it's amazing to the access that you have with Rachel and Lehman in that this they told an and other people as well that this story was so big that it was on the news. It was dominating the news and that Rachel had this unfortunate experience of sitting there and watching this person that she was planning to move went to a house shortly did was enthralled with the man. As you mentioned, thought this guy was the cat. Pajamas. There thought it was a great guy and now hearing that thinking that he was divorced and that they were going Wheatley split now hearing about all know was my wife and was happily married. In am and so it just crushed her, and so she had a completely different idea about who this man was and the kind of lies that he was telling her, and so it's very interesting. Go ahead. Yeah she was uh.
I I don't know that other people saw her as a sympathetic character. I did because I thought she was completely take out. I mean again, I think That people don't like that, that bdsm things that people are really turned people off. For some reason, I don't understand it's just you know Ed, but but yes you I mean she was a real person and she cared. These will feelings and she was taken for a ride and she didn't she was unsure. I don't believe she never really knew. I think again he was misrepresenting the whole criminal situation to her? There was divorce. Where on the way to divorce, blah blah blah and she believed She wanted to believe so. Has the exhausted all his appeal I mean that would be a reason to keep consistent with his story as well.
Yeah in about that position. He he picked it up. Should the court you're generally your on your first to feel the ineffective counsel and Bob's a fairly smart guy, so he's been on what buttons to push and say you know I had an effective count, so and he you know it's a didn't. They didn't bring in certain things that he wanted Brooklyn and, and there was a change of venue which is very rare and and so on. All the usual usual first appeals all the usual round of post conviction, relief, so now he's just beginning and the court is considering. The court in this case would have to reverse itself essentially, and so that's not gonna happen, so he'll move up the ladder. Forget there's probably three appeals levels, their lab, see our?
and I post conviction, relief and up, and so interesting one, this was interesting because he actually took the stand in his. You know three for post conviction, relief and and talked a lot about the case and again the consistency. It was also unusual because one of his his defense is because what the defense lawyers to thank you did give effective counsel. So you know the circus continues. Yeah, it's amazing. It you know. I just wanted to add one other, saying that again is very vivid and movie esque when Steve Thibodaux, who has gone to the police. And again we talked about this don Wanna be and he's talking to the FBI and Bob Bashir or bust in and says who you talk. Series. Give me the apple phone
is that any of those all copies is look at this. It's a crop with AL you deal and I figure okay, the gigs up now I mean because we've it that way. We don't know what's going to go on TIM Ma took one of the guys he was told if you're talking to the cops- and he was super paranoid, he went to all his tenants instead of your talking to cops you have to. Let me know not, please let me know you. Let me know so. He was freaked everybody was you know, being wired and some people were so. He said who is this and so Steve Thibodeau, maybe not the guy most deaf guy on his feet. He talked his way out of it. Somehow so you figure and again, very, very soprano esque with yeah life and death situation, but Krabel. It seems to me He was caught red handed there right and yeah, but but now I mean somehow yeah, somehow
with that girl, I don't know how you let it slide hey if you still get that sh yeah distant, credible, but yeah yeah. This is the story. Yes, the fasten adding story. So again, I want to thank you for coming on and talking about this incredible For the is it might want to contact. You will find more about your other work or facebook. You tell us how people might do that. Well, let's say you can go to Www dot, avalanche50 dot com and you can I always tell people go. No one should not do this because you get it's royalty and Amazon, but you know the book. Available at Amazon. You get all four of my true crime books there. These are all published by penguins, Berkeley and print to cram in print and and let's see you can follow me on twitter at at ten vengeance.
And so in that. If anybody wants to get ahold of me, they got a great case. They think would be cool. I would like to hear that kind of stuff. Well. It's been a real pleasure, Steve talking about murder in Grosse, Pointe Park, privilege, adultery and the killing of Jane Bashara, very, very incredible and very entertaining and again quite a yarn that you pick there for a survivor enjoyment this evening. Thank you very much Steve. You have a great evening and hope to talk to you again soon. Ok, I appreciate it good talking with you. Thank you goodnight. Let. And an ad from dad all right, save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive gothic, is a what is. This is
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.