Hi, I'm Jay Farner, ceo of Quicken Loans, thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea, a better idea, maybe to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point. Ninety nine percent APR four point: eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com right. Subject, change one point: twenty five percent of receive this kind of cost information conditions, equal housing lender license in office and the number 330i it's Jamie Progressives number one. Two employee leave a message at the Hey Jamie: it's been Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Acapella group, Matt Harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean you're, the guy, always helping people find coverage options with the name, your price tool. It should be you given me the pep talk now get out there hit that high note and take mad harmony, all the way to nationals this yeah, sorry

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Murder in the mountains the Muriel Baldridge story, revisits, slaying hi, I'm Jay Farner, ceo of Quicken loans. Thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea, a better idea, maybe to take cash out of your home with a Quicken loans. Thirty year, fixed rate mortgage, the rate today in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point. Ninety nine percent APR four point: eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com right, something change, one point: twenty five percent: if you receive this kind of call for cause information conditions, equal housing, lender place in office and the number three hundred and thirty me real baldridge the seventeen their old high school cheerleader, who was found beaten to death on the morning of June eighth, one thousand nine hundred and forty nine in press Tonsberg Kentucky after a decade long investigation, that featured an amazing array of twists and turns including it since regional trial. In a controversial verdict, the case remains unsolved.

This day, materials murder is considered the most bizarre and confusing case. The annals of eastern Kentucky Crime, the book that was for this evening, is murder in the mountains. The Mariel Baldridge story with my special, I guess journalist and author Michael Crisp, welcome to the program and thank you. For this interview, Michael Crisp, great, thank you Dan. We appreciate you having me on tonight. Thank you very much for coming on. Let's start off, without giving any of the story away. If you can possibly do that Why was this a store, that you were either pick four or you chose to do. Why was this story? Give us are the audience a little bit of the background why you would want to do this book or why someone picked you specifically to do this. How did you become involved with this and why, without giving us too much of the story, but tell us about that? Please

Certainly it is a great story. I live in Kentucky and over the last few years I've been known pretty much as a documentary filmmaker, and about three or four years ago, I had the opportunity to do a documentary film about really bad school bus wreck. That happened in nineteen. Fifty eight in the town of press Tonsberg Kentucky and to this day that school bus wreck, which claimed the lives of twenty seven young people, is still tied with it. Still the number one traffic that will be in the United States regarding a school bus, and while I was making that film throughout the course of the interviews I had several people that I interviewed Tell Maine that, although there town was known for this, horrific accident in one thousand, nine hundred and fifty eight they, the town, was also known for a very bizarre unusual string.

Murder and subsequent investigation. That happened just nine years before in the same town there in forty nine. So the case really fascinated me quite a bit as I was making the school bus wreck and then about a year ago I decided to start making a documentary film about this night. Forty, nine flying an A few days into the process, the family of the murder victim, contacted me and said. We fully support your project. However, we feel it would be a little bit more tasteful if you wrote a book about it as opposed to doing memory film. The reason being was the documentary film that I did it out. The bus wreck. It won some awards, it did really well, is extremely popular at it pipe theatrically and there was probably a period of a year where you really

could go through Appalachia or go through Kentucky without seeing the film in some sort of theater, so they thought it would be a a bit more tasteful to the murder victims memory into the family, especially that still survives. If we did a book, and so that's how it decided to go ahead and approach this as a bug Right and with that cooperation you knew, then you would have something because you have to have access, especially with a crime a little bit older, but regardless It's interesting for the reader to have that access, and it's in it's pretty well essential for the journalist to need something something other than the reports. The official reports in the court transcripts is not not right, exactly from the get go. I was very privileged to have met and known a couple. Now. What is more, all I got to talk a few. I got to talk to the future in the course of the of writing a book, but the lady that rights, the

an opening opening paragraph or the opening. I guess prologue to the to the book. Her name is Lynn Preston and she is a niece by marriage of the murder victim. And she gave me so much information and was extremely helpful. She opened up a lot of doors to be to be able to have this book become a reality, so we're very thankful for her support right, now you've? You made the correction to her in her, but she really was her name was really pronounced. Despite Mario the way I mispronounced it is it really she was really known as mirror and soul. Thanks for that correction. So I don't keep making a mistake during The entire interview now like take us you say, you're from Kentucky, but tell us what Preston Burg is really like. It's uh maybe even leaving a brief history, but give us what Preston Burg in one thousand nine hundred and forty nine press tonsberg was,

was really like before we introduce the main character of this incredible tale. Oh certainly, it was just a small town in Eastern Kentucky, comprised of really just couple one thousand people, and during that time the railroad was a pretty big industry in town coal mining was pretty big, but the people were very tight, knit much as they are today. Lots of family these were related to each other. People live fairly close to each other, so you knew almost everybody in town and the pea full of that particular area, as well as throughout Appalachia in general, mainly We have irish ancestry. There are very smart, they're, very hard working, and they're very tight knit, and so in that particular time period you had a very small community that

that everybody pretty much knew each other, but the time period was also interesting as well, because world WAR two had just wrapped at four years. Prior there was a sense of relief thanks and Anna restoration of innocence in that community and people were happy and they were looking forward to the future ahead and little did they so that such a traumatic event would change their lives forever right, now? What was the sort of the? Industry and what was how was the town really? Basically, how does this little thrive. What was it known for? Was it's a little bit of it history and background yeah? I'm in many blaze. It was like the small towns of today the main street area was the popular you had florists and restaurants and different things that you would see

and pretty much most small towns today, but one of the largest industries and the biggest industry in town was the co railroad and there was a depot station that saw lots of activity send your trains will come through on the railroad and they would stop off. At the depot station, there was a restaurant nearby that house, near by hundreds of people, would come in and out of town each day and coal was a big industry there too, and so the code It would come in and out on these railway cars and that's the railway plays a big role in the in the story, because, first off a lot of the people that are connected in the story, a lot of the main, People were there because of the railroad and if they do work for the railroad. They had some sort of indirection direct connection to it as well, and then the very famous bridge which still stands today

that moral was killed underneath that bridge was constructed basically by the railroad, because at that time the railroad was a private company. It was very big, it was making quite a bit of money and they need did a bridge to connect the two different sides of the town across the river so the railroad was huge during that time. Yeah, so it ends up being a major landmark and grim reminder for, for the city for the town itself. So yes, now tell us about Meryl Baldridge tell us a little bit about her parents about her back around what was her life like in this press, Tonsberg what was she like? She was as the photos. I will tell the audience that she's, a very striking woman, very beautiful

but very striking woman too. So tell us about Meryl Baldridge, her sibling. Her parents. What were they like? What was her background like what was her life really like yeah and she was the youngest of seven children. She had three brothers and three sisters, Anne at that uh, time of her murder. She was seventeen years old. She would is a cheerleader for the presence, Berg High School and she was just. She was somebody that we used to use this phrase before that everybody that's ever been in high school has always had a classmate or a friend like Merle Baldridge, who happens to be considered the prettiest girl in school, the most vivacious somebody who's, not only smart and funny and has a good sense of humor. But somebody that's pop

color with pretty much everybody in high school and that's who moral was and her family was wonderful. Her brothers and sisters were very supportive of her and looked over her quite a bit, especially her sisters, uh Her mom, I believe, was pretty much a stay at home. Mom's most of the women were at the time and heard read. His name was George Balderich and George worked for Seattle, railroad and in this particular spot of geography and press tonsberg Co Railroad Depot station was just across the street, feet from where Myrtle lived, just probably maybe fifty yards away, and then the infamous bridge wear underneath that that the murder took place was just perhaps one hundred and fifty to two hundred it's a way. An all of this was in an area called W press tonsberg, which was essentially press Tonsberg an that really sets. The tone

in the setting for where all of this occured, but she was one- beautiful, young, lady and it shame that her life got cut short. So I said we one thing that we you know we do when you do stuff that you can really call this historical crime to cry because, especially with which Prominent in this story is that in nineteen, forty nine for those listeners that are twenty years old or younger, or even thirty years old, nine one thousand eight hundred and forty nine, not that I witnessed it myself and nineteen Forty nine was an innocent time in terms of not lock. In the doors and the windows, but an innocent time in terms of serial killers and psychopathic Others in the knowledge of what some people work, capable of, and so people they weren't as as afraid and we're more trusting 'cause. I think this is important because.

When this happens it it in this day and age. We were with our cell phones and how connected we are. This might not have happened. Same way, so we have to account. Audience it's one thousand nine hundred and forty nine and sold the response to things that we would sing think might be sassy just to raise suspicions, didn't do so in nineteen. Forty, nine right, yeah, you're you're exactly Right Dan and to also paint a picture of the community. In that time period so many people that I talked to kept referencing. The television show happy days which took place primarily in the 50s, and even though this was Usm call, Eastern Kentucky town, they were all very privy to all the music and movies and television and everything that the rest of the country had and when picture? The tv show Happy Days Ann

regarding how innocent it seems and how you know you just couldn't imagine anything this monstrous occuring. That makes it even that much more surreal, but something like this could have happened in such a small community during that time period, Delta set the stage to we have to fast forward because we have such a like so many twists and turns in this case, it's incredible now Tell us about Neural Baldridge is life? Was she dating? Was she. Seriously in a relationship with anyone. She's seventeen years old, you said, she's a cheerleader she's, very popular, her family life is good listen ship with her or siblings is fine. Tell us what's happening, just she gets out of school. What is happening in her life in June of nineteen, forty, nine, yes and she's a junior who's going to become a senior in high school. So she's going into her senior year, she

is running around with a group of girls that, like her, are very fun, but also very respectful and very nice she's dating quite a bit, but she does have one boy from another town that she's dating much more seriously and they also over the last few weeks leading up to the murder, had also become secretly engaged, and so. She was really living just a great life for what an american teenager would be living at the time and on the evening of the murder I believe it was a Monday night in June of nineteen, forty nine. She in her girlfriends decided to go out and do a handful of activities before she would return home that evening and of those activities. One of them included going to see a movie at the local theater,

they're on main street. She also with with her girlfriends, went to see us all game that was being played down sort of near their school, but the most infamous thing that they did Anne and no one thought it would be infamous at the time, was that she and her girlfriends attended a kind of all that was traveling through town, so during the Carnaval they spent probably about an hour or an hour and a half down there and they didn't really any unusual or strange at counters, while they're at the Carnaval, but that was the last place that they went to before. They are she decided that she needed to go home, so she was walking back home with three of her girlfriends and. Merle lived across the water on on this on the big Sandy River, and spanning that river was the W Preston's Berg Bridge the infamous bridge, where this all occur.

So the four girls are walking down one of the main streets there, impressions bird and it's time for her to cross the bridge in the darkness. It smell about ten fifteen p m and time for her to cross and go back home to her to her house and some of the girl friends offer and say. Would you like us to walk across the bridge with you and she tells them? No thanks. I've done this a thousand times. You don't have to come with me, I'm ok, so they keep walking they like her cross by yourself and that's the last she's ever seen alive again and a few minutes later and some of the neighbours in that particular neighbourhood here some screams, but they don't think anything of it. There's a hospital bed nearby and at that time it was kind of routine, as patients will being brought into the hospital that they might be moaning or they might be screaming

there is also some dogs in the neighbourhood of some of the neighbors passed off. The screams is perhaps a neighborhood dog and then night comes and goes and then in the morning on the river bank around six, I am a truck driver driving across the bridge, looks down and spot a clump of clothing that look suspicious to him. He puts his vehicle, goes down to the river bank and turns out it's her body, and the net sets off a chain of events that that is just so incredible it's just hard to even describe now. Why did she's not coming home set off some alarms for her parents. Well, that's an excellent question in it

one that we don't even really get in too much in the book. But I believe that at the time it was not uncommon to wear if a girl was supposed to come home and if it got late and the parents were already turning in as long as they were with another girlfriend. It would be sort of assumed that that girl, might be having sort of very last minute sleepover at another girlfriend's house and These were the parents knew that she was that evening. Spending time with a handful of other. Very spectable young women, and if, if something that occurred, where she could have stayed over with one of them for whatever reason, that would have been accepted. So I believe that's what happened in that case. Yeah. That's why I wanted to make that other point, because it just. I know that that

a little bit of not really an explanation, because you can't get one. But the only real explanation is that that's all small that commute It is- and I I know of communities not in nineteen four, you know that we're trusting, like that as well 'cause. Everybody does really believe that they know everyone else, literally so very trusting now what happened after the discovery to take a sorry for the interruption. But what happens after the discovery by this person? Well, what happens from there is? a crowd of on workers, decide to descend on the area once word has spread that a body has been found there on the river bank and then from their law enforcement starts to begin to arrive at the The crime scene is really sort of. We could just save it in today's society, with today's law enforcement techniques, the crime scene would have been sick,

your Dan? There would have probably been a much better chance of being able to find the killer, but at this time we had a whole lot of onlookers arriving first before any law enforcement arrived It had rained a little bit the night before so the area was already kind of muddy, and so now do you have all these townsfolk coming down to see what going on as the law enforcement are arriving. But some of the initial clues that the law enforcement find an one of the first people on the scene from the from the law enforcement side of things is a. Is the county coroner

His name is Brady Shepard and mister. Shepherd finds a handful of things that are definitely of interest. There is a fifteen inch led type, that's a few feet away from her body, and so that's immediately believed to be the murder weapon. There is an uprooted peachtree that is there on the river bank. There are signs of struggle where the peach tree is. It looks as if Merle was involved in an altercation with her attack, and uprooted the peach tree by hand as he was trying to throw her body into the river to so. Apparently, he killed her there on the river bank and then tried to get her out into the river, but was probably scared off porch lights being turned on in the area, and that and may some area when she screamed that might have scared some people as well and a few feet

play also was an empty whiskey bottle. And that also would lead to an interesting direction that the case went to after as well as there was a strand of pearls and also on the peach tree that was began. That was believed her belonged to her too, and so that was pretty much how the crime scene look that morning and dead and and from their things you ve got stranger. Now you talk about the pearls in the pros were given to her by her aunt, I believe for some some relative anyway, just the evening before, because they thought it went well with the dress that she was wearing. Yeah that's correct and the polls were a gift from an aunt that was visiting from out of state and at time Merle had three brothers and three sisters, but all of her siblings had already moved out of the house. Most were Mary,

and living fairly nearby, and so during the time over the summer when she was killed. She was living with her mother and her father, and they had also had a couple Other younger relatives come in to stay because one of their parents and was going through a divorce, and I believe one of their parents was one of Merle sisters, so it was a pretty small household the time, but this visiting it came in and when Merle put on a dress for going out that evening brought out a strand of pearls and said, this would just be perfect for the dress and I'd rather rather than me, have them tonight. I'd like to give them as a gift to you and have but a man, and so she did in the end, I wanna clay does with the problems that the founding the uprooted peach tree that night now be,

Early analysis from the police, now we have to also explain to the audience that you know: we've all had a steady diet of csi and forensic Evan Dna type evidence this. One thousand eight hundred and forty nine, like you say what we would call it now is that the crime scene was definitely compromised or contaminated. What did the police have other than the pipe which may or may not have had blood according to your book that there weren't quite sure, but you look like that, might be the thing that the murder weapon they had the pearl that were laying on a twig or tree or something right there. So it really wasn't robbery. What was person nation from and what kind of evidence given its one thousand nine hundred and forty nine and there's no real technology. What did they have an? What was their first, nation conclusion. If there was any at all from the

that initial crime. Scene investigation? Yes, well one of the first things that everybody thought of was the motive for the murder. Definitely just like you stated could not have been robbery. She was a very beautiful seventeen young woman and the attack was probably believed to be by a man, and who had bad intentions sexually with her so a lot of that immediately, first started as they looking at the evidence there wasn't really a direct correlation between most of the evidence and who that they would go after? As far as initial stuff stags, one of the first suspects right from the get go just a few weeks into the investigation, was a male friend of hers that his name was Donald Horne and most people into

around noon by the nickname doutney, and he on the afternoon of her murder. Took a bus to Texas and after learning that she had been murdered, just about a day or two later he told the local authorities in Texas that he was wanted in connection for questioning with her murder. So in Kentucky there was a big fervor, especially there in press tonsberg that he was perhaps the perpetrator. And He was confessing and so the governor at the time extradited in from Texas and brought him back out here. And so for a while. It looked like that. We at the murderer, and everything would be fine. But once he got up here, it turns out he saved his best ticket bus stub for the ticket down there to Texas

and it exonerated him, and so a lot of people in town we're pretty upset, especially because he it kind of used the murder to part say, a free ride, home back to Kentucky he didn't truly confessed to it that he sort of left it open ended to where he could get a ride bag. So after that, then the focus began on the carnival workers, because at the time, impressions Berg in one thousand nine hundred and forty nine, it was so tight met. Many people were thinking, there is no way a member of our community could have committed this crime right to be a stranger and the strangers in town are from the Carnaval, so the focus went immediately to

carnival workers and then for a while. It looked like that was going to be a pretty hot lead, a lot of activity. A lot of interesting things occur to the carnival workers during the summer of forty nine that were the target of the investigation. Now they went through. Obviously they probably went and checked the backgrounds. Were they able to check the backgrounds in nineteen, forty, nine of the people that did work at the carnival and then did a target, those individuals. How did it workout that they had some suspects? If we can All that from the carnival initially tell us how that turned events happened. What was their able initially just check with backgrounds and go from there or what was their strategy yeah even back, then they didn't have a really good background, search or any kind of database for being able to find out red

play which members, if any of the traveling carnival had extensive criminal background, really what they could do at that time was if they received some testimony that implicated someone at that time, then they could focus in on that person and then pull their background records. But they didn't have that kind of widespread capability like they do nowadays. So out of the carnival workers, there were two people that were very interesting to police. At the time there was a the man who is twenty four years old named bill Gamble and his young friend, who is fifteen years old. Name, Dolan, Collins and turns out Olin Collins, the fifteen year old after a few days of the investigation, decided to tell the authorities that he will test. Twenty four year old bill gamble, kill Myrtle Baldridge

while they were, I believe, driving across the bridge, and he witnessed her being dragged down to the to the River bank and that he saw Bill gamble. Do this So, within a day or two, the town is in an uproar they believe they have their guy bill. Gamble is brought up to Cincinnati for questioning and even signs a confession. But now it's official here, it's just a couple months into the invest, gay shun, it looks like we've got our guy and everything is all set. And then some really strange things happen Bill gay, a day or two later says his confession that he signed in Cincinnati was coerced by threatening police officer, so he decided to recant the confession. And in a day or two after that Young Olin Collins says I Get all of that up- and I was just you know- just you know- expounding on the story and just wanted to make all of this up. So it was really suspicious

during the investigation turns out the older gentleman bill gamble was in. He was working for the carnival, just like Owen Collins that he was under suspicion for kidnapping a husband and wife fairly recently just a few weeks prior to this crime that I believe pull in Virginia and the car that Bill Gamble had was tide to that couple. It looked as if that couple owned it. The couple still had not turned up. They were still missing. And Bill Gamble was a big, tough guy that had quite a bit of a criminal record. He initially sounds like the type of person that would do something this bad to the young girl and he's also somewhat in her age range, with her being seventeen and being twenty.

Four and so it looked as if everyone had their guy, but then, when the confessions, and the testimony were recanted. Grangeri at the end of the summer, decided not to seek any type indictment or or formal charges against either gentleman. So by the end of the summer, three to four months after the crime had been committed, it was completely cold. Tell us how the grand jury did they took it to the grand jury and there wasn't enough, for the grand jury to indict set it to trial. Tell us a little bit more about that process, how they could possibly not be able to get this to trial. Certainly the Grainger he was having to hear lots of different cases. I believe there was also

so another less glorified murder investigation going on involving some strangers total separate investigation that at the time, was taking up quite a bit of the grand juries time as well, and they wanted to make sure that they got that indictment right. As well as the moral Baldridge indictment, but aside from that, they had a lot of other different cases from things as including the ancient art of bootlegging, which which happen quite a bed and the time in, and that they had lots of things I had to deal with. But one of the things they probably confuse the grand jury, most was in Olin Collins story about seeing Bill gamble commit the murder. He insisted that the Merde

was that the murder weapon was a hammer that was kept in the car underneath Bill Gamble feet an I think, such a focus on finding the hammer sort of discounted a lead pipe as official evidence and sort of made. A lot of people wonder you know how much doubt and credibility these two witnesses were providing and at the time there wasn't much credence or strength being given to a lot of the physical evidence during the grand jury hearings, and they were really focusing more on the witness testimony by gambling Collins and that turned out to just not be credible enough to get an actual indictment.

Sadly, in many instances, even today, witness testimony without any really good concrete physical evidence. Just sometimes just isn't that strong when it comes to trying cases While I ask you a little bit later of Wyatt, because I think they're the most perplexing for sure these two guys and now so what happens after this now the two months? They think they have their men they have confessions from both. That must have been very you know encouraging. Now they have This re canning, the grand jury, won't indict. So what's their next move, what do they do? Next? What do police do? Next, yeah, an things go buy it for several weeks with the police and, as things are getting quiet with them, the town is still in an app, or there are reward funds being put together at the bank. Private investigators are being brought in the pinkertons or being brought in to investigate and

such a over well overwhelming feeling fear has engulfed the town, teenagers. Well, no longer have the freedom to go outside, even if they want to and walk the streets, because the perpetrator has not been caught. There's a lot of and, as you mentioned earlier, car doors are now being lot. Houses are, being locked, more lights are staying on at night because as they feel a murderer is in their missed. There's no guarantee that this guy is in a serial killer. Maybe he's You know lurking around and it's scaring everyone so Jane Three rolls around and then to everyone's surprise after the case seems dormant for weeks and minds. A couple of arrests are made and they are made with a couple gentleman who are older than the typical suspect that you might expect in this type of case

and the two men that are charged include a sixty year old gentleman named lawn moles. An lime is a prominent school board member and at the time time, if you were a school board. Member and Eastern Kentucky it was just like being on the city council. It was a very power. Position you had a lot of weight in town. It was a really good position to have and Lon. Also, coincidentally, worked at the depots station across from Earl cells, and he was George Baldridge is Foss, George being Merles dad, so he knew the family really well and worked across from the house there at the depot station at the co, railroad and one of lawns. Best friends was a gentleman named Ek Dotson, who had a house close to the railroad and he was also in,

because they believe that he had something to do with the murder as well. So then, that set off an interesting chain of events involving just more Does our investigation situations and another different things leading up to a sensational trial that spring and there were probably two main reasons, why line was thought to be such a strong suspect in the case, lawn was quite the drinker and he was one of the few people in town that drank a particular brand of whiskey called for roses and the bottle of whiskey. That was found near merles body. And granted it was maybe thirty to fifty feet away from her body at the time she was found was an M a bottle of four roses. So a lot of people thought hey. This lawn moles may have something to do with it. Even

We did kind of appear where the bottle was that it could have easily been just thrown off the bridge a few days before or an or something like that, but it was still relatively close to a body at the second thing was was even though he was sixty Anna respected member, the community that still little bit of a drinker. He had a reputation of someone that would layer at young ladies and be very fascinated with young girls, especially pretty young girls, and he had a bit of a reputation in town, especially there also at the railroad station that he had kind of a crush on Merle even though she was so young, it was rumored that he had frequently looked forward to times when her and her girlfriends would come home school early from school. He had a clear view.

Who is window at the office at the Depot station of seeing them and many times she would come over to use the telephone there. At the deep, station and she knew lawn through her dad and she would sometimes get up on his desk and maybe flirt with I'm just a little bit in a very innocent way that grows at that age will sometimes do, or at least he interpreted it as flirting, and she would the telephone on occasion- and that was a moment Apparently he really looked forward to whenever he could be that near near to her. So those were a couple bits of I guess: circumstantial, events that helped lead a lot of people, especially merles family, into believing that he was one of the main perpetrators. In the case now the ck dot and it is a long walls friend One of the other reasons is that please,

is on that, if I'm not correct police interpreted that the crime scene, because they had dragged the mirror down the embankment towards this river that this was not the work of somebody that was not familiar with this area like say the Carnaval workers so tell us a little bit more about EK. Dotson disease is a friend of long walls. White tell us a little bit more about what police thought. His connection was, as I was mentioning is sure he got an equally happened on. He was a neighbour of moral, bald, Regis family. He also lived very close. He with his back yard, was on the river bank and he lived very closely the depot station as well. And one of the main physical things that seemed to probably tie EK to this crime more than the thing was. As you said, it appeared that these that the purpose

or perpetrators Do the area extremely well because it was dark. I don't recall if there was a full moon that night whether there was or not, it was dark and on this river bank, there were a lot of twists and turns, and alleys and areas on the hillside to where you are. Only had to know the area to be able to efficiently escape or even bring someone down there to try can do harm to and in his backyard, Is where some footprints that lead from the crime scene, when at between his house and his back hard and one of the other neighbor houses. So it look like that if he had committed the crime he decided to flee in general direction at by his house, which you would sort of make sense that would sort of make sense if you get into a killer's mind

Where would they be wanting to go initially? Maybe maybe try and go home if they're thinking clearly and he live so close to that area. There was so much more circumstantial evidence against lawn moles, more so than Kay Darts and that even though they were thought as as being in Cahoots and could have done this together, more focus was shifted on moles and, and that's the situation that was going on during that spring of nineteen. Fifty now in this as well. When you talk about the four roses, whiskey tell us about the police are able to uncover in terms of that whiskey and some real, damaging evidence. At least you would think yeah and one of the really big pieces of damning evidence with some testimony,

by a husband and wife that did some bootlegging there in town and the bootleggers, the last name was God T and you had Clyde got C and his wife Julia Godsey and turns out that a few days after Lana and or arrested, Mister and MRS Godsey come forward and They decide to tell the tale of what they remember that evening. An one of the things that they remember was that lawn moles, along with EK, Dotson, made at least three and possibly four trips to their place of business, to purchas alcohol and on most of the trips they were purchasing for roses whiskey. So on the first trip or two, I believe one of the first trips occurred around ten p pm M and they did purchase some, some of that brand of whiskey and then

later on that evening, I believe around two hundred or two hundred, and thirty am turns out that MRS Gods here members that he had changed clothes for some strange reason, so that was kind of unusual while on moles would have change clothes in that particular time frame, and then finally, they made another trip later on in the morning and during that trip they decided not to buy any whiskey, but lawn moles was there just asking the bootleggers has anyone else here tonight bought any of this particular brand of whiskey which raise their suspicion that once the authorities were coming by and looking at somebody who might be Tide it's four roses. Whiskey, that's kind of unusual that they would come in just to ask that question. So it raised quite a bit of suspicion at the time

and the thing was it wasn't the most popular whiskey. You have to have a little bit more money to be able to wasn't. It was a little bit more of a special whiskey. Wasn't it yeah, it sure was, it was a little bit more expensive at the time than the others, and because it was so unusual that definitely raised a lot of eyebrows in the town on. Why that empty bottle would be nearby and when you think of it Modern Day times, if there's a particular brand, is cigarette or alcohol or something that's very unique to you. And then, if that particular thing is found at a crime scene, then sure if you're guilty that something that's going to really help. Probably in

to Gators lead sleep some folks here, but if you're in a sense it's an extremely rough situation. Should you have to try and explain yourself out of that. So in many ways it's kind of pays to be popular in situations with the brands that you choose in situations like this now tell us about what other witnesses that they found they could attest to evidence. It was again damaging to moles at trial like Any kind of any did anyone witness seeing blood on the clothing. Tell us about that in any other. Witness that came forward and what evidence they provided yeah and the joy God see the female bootlegger during the first trip, recalled seeing so

mud or blood on long molds's clothing. But on the second trip, when he showed up to purchase more whiskey, he had changed clothes and she thought that was kind of suspicious. But there was also another witness that came forward that claimed, just perhaps maybe two or three days after the murder that lawn moles came to him to have him change. The seat covers in his vehicle, and so the guy did the work on lawns car change. The seat covers remembers an unusual stain in the headrest of one of the in one of the seeds. I believe it was a back seat and in retrospect he wondered if that could have been

blood, but it was a really unusual, stain and soul on heading changed. The seat covers well a few days. Afterward investigators taught to the gentleman. He starts mentioning the story, and then word gets back to lawn moles that this guy is talking about that, and so then line goes to that guy directly, at least once or twice and says you know that did happen, but I leave you're mistaken about the date you change. The seat covers for me about two or three days before the day of the murder and that guy, is saying no lawn. It was for three days after I remember vividly so line again, is being pretty suspicious about trying to alter witness testimony and find out quite a bit about the murder, from some of the other witnesses and from some of the other investigators

Now. The thing that we most people know about is the alibi. What is what is lawn, moles alibi with Dk Dotson's alibi or what is their counter? What is their defense to this murder charge? Yeah well, Lon has lives with his wife at the time in her name is Elizabeth, and she's Essentia Lee an invalid and is pretty much bedridden, most. All of the time line says that that evening. He attended, I believe, a football game that was taking place near the school by that softball game, and then he claims that he can I'm home at about nine hundred or nine hundred and thirty pm, tuned in a radio station for his wife at about nine hundred and thirty p dot m, and then he retired, along with her right after he turned tuned in the radio station. And she verified it, and not only did she say that he was home at nine hundred and thirty and basically never left and the murder

is committed at about one thousand and fifteen, so long said that he was in bed asleep when that was going on She also had one of her sisters and another neighbor over there right around that time right around nine hundred and thirty and those neighbors verified that they didn't see his car route after that, after nine hundred and thirty pm, and they even one, if not both of 'em interacted and spoke with him in that nine hundred to nine hundred and thirty period when he was home. So if he had been able to commit murder, he would have probably had to sneak out of bed while she was sleeping and go back out at about one thousand o'clock, which is conceivable, he could have done that, but one the things that really assisted him was his wife and sister in law during the trial, came forward and said that he was tentatively. They are at home and there was no way he could have done that.

Now you offered and because there was the question, why would these prominent people lie for their murderous husband and in law, and why would these people by? Because you really have these two seemingly kredible witnesses set of witnesses, you have witnesses once I witnessed on the other side with both reasonable kredible stories would think based on all the all of the evidence. What did you offer? What did you find of what was the? What was the assumption that may have happened. Why would These people lie if they did indeed lie yeah one of the big just assumptions in one of the things that we stop. Did to figure out from from the get go, was law one's wife. Anne Elizabeth was even though she was an invalid and didn't get out much. She was also prominent in the community too

and we a lot of people believe that she probably would have considered lying in order to save her reputation and her husband's reputation They also to protect her income because if he under the jail. With the crime, then that might have affected his pension and her ability to live the life that she was accustomed to as well. So that was pretty much the main motivation. We thought if he had indeed tennis or if she wasn't sure about what she was testifying about, that. That's probably what happened now. It lends less credibility? When you add a couple more people that, with less of a vested interest in this Elizabeth, vested interests, so You still are you still confident that did the other two co conspirators

Here's are have that kind of interest. Are that solid, a family and can't be shaken from the truth? You think that's reasonable. I definitely think it is reasonable, considering that one of the the other witnesses was her sister and his sister in law. So if he did have had a hand in s and it wouldn't be that surprising to have family members, even in today's day and age step, four board in order to attempt to try and save somebody by offering some faulstick false testimony. If They were related to that person and could help preserve their reputation. So the fact that his sister in law and who is her sister came forward That information in many ways raise some suspicion, because a lot of people felt that those were false testimonies brought about by people. Just wanted to keep lawn

safe and have his reputation intact. Now was the fact that would you mentioned earlier that he was considered they're prominent person based on his catcher in society very much like a city councilman, would be afforded that a privilege, now with the family, with his wife having some prominence in the community as well, and it her reputation bolstered by her sister and the in law sister in law. Do you think that the police didn't tread or treaded quite softly towards that in Invest vacation or that possibility that they might be lying there. Weren't, really, they were really dealing with these people very harshly, given the prominence that they had in the community yeah that's right and she was a member of something called the daughters of the American revolution which are still around today. But at that uh

time that was a group comprised possibly as it is today of society, women that are women of means that come from from good families, and she was very, very active in that group and to her. We had many people What's that she was the type of person that reputation and that everything her place society and in the way she and her husband looked looked at the people's eyes. She was deaf. Only a woman that really cared about public perception of her. And her family, and so Is that even kind of leads more people to believe? Ok, that gives her another very reasonable whole reason to go ahead and say something like that in order to protect him, but the police at the time. They really didn't

Alvin much to her story and they weren't able to really attack it or investigate it. That well because also It was a good story with regard to. There wasn't a whole lot of holes in it and there a lot of other witnesses that could counter react it she with her being an invalid and with her there at the house and not getting around much. A lot of people knew that she was at the house that was a given on the night of the murder, and it was basically her word against other people's words and with regard to that, give a whole lot of credence to that yeah, as opposed to the two ne'er do well bootleggers. That's it

exactly right now, the thing is: is that what's the juries verdict with this, if we audience It is over, tell us quickly what what's the verdict and then what did police decide to do after this year and the year, the cases so hot that it has to be moved out, oppressed and bird and its moved over Preston, burgers in a county called Floyd and they move it over to a neighboring county called Pike County and then Intitle, the county seat of Pike County. They have the trial and in May of nineteen. Fifty the trial last about a week and Theodore please decide to try the two men separately and because they believe they have a lot more evidence against lawn mow. Cause. They try him first and After about a week- and the case goes to the jury and less

I believe the figure in the book says fifty three minutes within fifty three minutes. A verdict is returned, so everybody is holding their breath, wondering what's going to happen and sure enough, the verdict is innocent, the say family is heartbroken and a lot of people in press tonsberg in Floyd County at just the county over where the crime committed they were heartbroken and upset. They really felt that they needed the closure of of a conviction and it appeared law moles really did have something to do with this crime. So they were flabbergasted, but just almost immediately after the verdict is return. Come a couple interesting things that occur. The sorties and whatnot decide not to pursue a trial against Ek Datsun because they feel that they had their best case against lawn moles and with him being found in

that there's no way they're going to get a guilty verdict with Ek Dotson, so both men are both men are release and oddly enough at this time- and you would never see this in today's day and age with dna technology as all of the evidence that was brought into the court, there was some clothing that belong to lawn, moles and possibly EK, DOT. But definitely lawn moles. They return the clothing to him and then The clothing and physical evidence that they that belong to the murder victim moral Baldridge. They return that to her family. And within about a day or two. Both parties decide to burn all of the things that they were given back to them by the authorities. Now, that's rather suspicious, considering

If lawnmowers was innocent, why would he and he came out and get together one night and burn the closed that had been given back to them at the end of a trial, but also the most heartbreaking thing here. Is that an because the Baltic family was just so heartbroken by the verdict and by the fact that they just were not getting closure with with their daughters, murder. The fact that they We destroyed all the evidence, evidence and the torn dress that I believe also had blood stains on it that belong to Merle, this that. They would now be no way to ever. Have any kind of physical evidence examined that was very important to the case regarding victims, clothing and things that years later would be important as the advent of dna technology became president, so that

be much ended, most anyone's hope of ever really truly solving the case in less people. Would you have to rely on witness testimony or other means. Yes, it's incredible story. I thought amazing and it still Our time is almost up and then there's still some more twists and turns for an audience. That's prepared for this book. That's v, very interesting book, Michael and you've done a great job, and I want to thank very much for coming on the program and talking about this now so the case basically just remains unsolved so. We will leave a little bit more for the audience is willing to go and an purchased the boy can delve more into this case, and but it just does remain unsolved to this day. Doesn't it yeah? It does Is it sixty three years later now and the case is still unsolved and

What I found is a lot of people with the book is sold incredibly well, it's it's sold for one thousand copies over the last few months, and a lot of people that purchased the book I'd say fall into two camps either there from Eastern Kentucky or Kentucky and they've heard of the case, and there fascinated by it or its other people just across the nation? that she'll, but by reading the book they can learn a little bit more about the forties in the fifties and those type of crime investigation techniques what to do, but more and more: really not what to do in a murder investigation, but it's a fascinating story and I've had a handful of people tell me when they purchased the book that they are purchasing it because they want to read all of the detail: tells in all of the facts, no matter how minuscule, because they they themselves want to take a crack at at formulating a theory on who actually might have done this and as much as

we've talked about it tonight, there are so many, as you pointed out. Small, interesting side stories and other such bags? Other confessions other strange things that have happened in this case throughout the last sixty four years that that leaders that do purchase the book will have a chance to formulate their own opinion, and who knows, maybe even so. This case? Yes, it's very very interesting just when you think you have the suspect that really look like that. The appropriate person for this, then the k it turns sideways and we have another direction and just when we I think we've got lawn moles and then, like I say, that's why I, you about the the relatives. In the end, the wife. It just seems that you know you. You could see the getting that same kind of verdict today, as you did in nineteen. Forty, nine. It's it's sort of interesting to think that the juries were that's a fish vacated. I don't know what I thought of before this book, but that they were just as sophisticated

come to the same kind of conclusion that most people would come do today. Yeah, that's correct. An eve. Even today, if the trial had played out of lawn moles, exactly how it played out sixty three years ago chain. This is our. It still would have been an innocent verdict. An a lot of the reason by that is when you try people- and you know you're very familiar with this- with this type of stories that you cover and that you're an expert in and and in many ways we You rely so much. You know ninety five percent or more of your case is testimony you're already going to have a little bit of trouble and then, when some of the people that testify are bootleggers and t well like that. Even though those are fine, wonderful people that are surviving and doing exactly what they feel they need to do their just at I'm looked a little bit down

iponan juries just didn't really want to believe them. So when you get into those he said she said situations, that's why even today if anything had changed, they might not have even brought moles to trial, because the local attorneys may have felt that they didn't have enough to spend tax payer money and do it, well that at the time then there in Eastern Kentucky it had been a year. Since her murder- and they had to do something and they really did genuinely feel they they had their man and balls, and so I so yeah. That's that's a couple interesting correlations between the cases of today and the cases of you. After year, and the really like you say, is one of the sad where is behind this? Is everyone and suspicious to that everyone burnt the evidence

and so there is no chance of going back because we know as well as the audience knows, even go back, take the little scrap of of clothing or hair or something and get dna in and start solving things. Sixty three or more years ago, also another sad aspect of this story, but a very fascinating story. Michael- and I want to thank you very much. The audience has been listening to murder in the mountains with Michael Crisp. If you have a web right, Michael or Facebook page that people might be able to contact you and uh, maybe listen to the program or at least find out about it or find out more about book in any of the upcoming projects for yourself yeah. Definitely, if you go to death U Www, DOT, kentuckycoldcases dot com you'll find out info nation about the book, a brief description of the story, and you can also purchase the book there. At that side you can also purchased it on Amazon dot com. Just by searching for the title, which again is

Murder in the mountains, the Merle Ball rich story with moral being expelled, like nearly all em? You are I e l and I and so yeah, we definitely appreciate the support of your listeners with regard to this story. We, we're getting ready to to do a second edition, with some updates in the story. So they'll be more information about that on the website in the weeks to come, great grey well. Thank you very much, Michael and best of luck with this and and talk to you again in the near future. Thank you work great thanks. Bye Dan goodnight.

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