« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2010-10-14 | 🔗
Susan Berman was reared in the lap of Las Vegas luxury as the daughter of Davie Berman, a notorious casino mogul and mafia leader. It wasn't until college, well after her father's death that she learned what he really was and really did. She ultimately dedicated her life to learning about Vegas and it's underworld bosses, publishing 2 books on the subject Easy Street and Lady Las Vegas. Her story takes a turn for the bizarre in 1982 when Kathie Durst, the wife of college friend and heir to a New York real estate fortune, Robert Durst-mysteriously disappeared. Robert Durst was the primary suspect but no charges were laid. Shortly after the Kathie Durst case was reopened Susan Berman was found shot in the back of the head, mob execution style. No forced entry, no robbery, nothing missing. Again Robert is a suspect. Did Susan know her killer? Did she she have knowledge about Kathie Durst's death? MURDER OF A MAFIA DAUGHTER-THE LIFE AND TRAGIC DEATH OF SUSAN BERMAN-Cathy Scott
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him, Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the Knights daughter, did he came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalist, Ann Arbor Dan asking creating this YO stands of asking for the programme murder, the more shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors have written about them. Susan Berman was reared in the lap of Luck, LAS Vegas luxury as a d
order of data with the Quicksilver card from capital, one you earn unlimited one point: five percent cash back on every purchase, unlimited, unlimited, unlimited head on limited or limited anyway, you say it earning unlimited one point: five percent cash back on every purchase just sounds good capital, one. What's in your wallet, what's in your wallet, a senior while it capital one bank, USA, Na Hindi, Berman, a notorious casino mogul in Mafia leader, it wasn't until college well after her father's death that she learned what he really was. An really
did she ultimately dedicated her life to learning about Vegas in its underworld bosses publishing two books on the subject: Easy Street and Lady LAS Vegas. Her story takes a turn for the bazaar in one thousand nine hundred and eighty two, when Kathie Durst, the wife of college friend and air to a New York real estate fortune, Robert Durst mysteriously disappeared. Robertis was the prime suspect primary suspect, but no charges were laid shortly after the Kathie Durst case was reopened. Susie Berman Susan Berman was found shot in the back of the head mob execution style, no forced entry, no robbery, nothing missing,
again Robert is a suspect. Did Susan know her killer. Did she have knowledge about Kathie, Durst, death, murder of a mafia, daughter, the life and tragic death of Susie Susan Berman by my special guest Kathy Scott? I do not have Kathy Scott on the air, maybe she's just late getting to the phone to be able to call in for the program. I do you have. I guess I guess a couple of announcements to make as well. While we wait for her to contact the program. The book we are discussing tonight is murder of a mafia daughter, the life and tragic death of Susan Berman. Hi, Kathy Scott. It is really the story that you have seen in
casino and more so in the movie Bugsy starring warrant beady, where there is a primarily involves the arrangement between Meyer Lansky, Davy Berman and a Bugsy Siegel, and basically this the founders of LAS Vegas, as the story goes as members of the jewish mafia, Meyer Lansky, being the money man and Bugsy Siegel, as you see in the movie very flamboyant, an outgoing person and wanted to the believed in the LAS Vegas idea that the mob go and sort of clean up their act in LAS Vegas, make it for everyone and make up
a cash. And so a lot of people are fairly familiar with the story from the Bugsy Siegel movie, swearing, Warren Beady and from casino starring, rubber, Deniro and cast of many many a reputable mob type actors or actors playing my members. While we wait to get Cathy Scott on the line- and this is the second time she spend on the programme for the first time- was very early on and in the near the inception of the programme and her book was of the rough guy too. True crime. A com, a compilation of basically the most interesting, notorious infamous criminals involved in true crime, primarily killers, but also she featured some infamous robbery and. And thieves in her book in mafia members anyway, I'm going to tell you about next week is that hold onto your seats, because
specially for american audience. It's not as familiar with this story, Anne. In fact, I shouldn't even say that no one is familiar with this story. Basically, people have just gotten snippets from the can the impress this is another really really high profile case. Robert Willie Picton. Use the forty nine murders actually charged with twenty six, particularly grisly and bizarre and gruesome tale,
of a serial killer who fed the remains of his victims to the pigs that were on his farm. There has been a publication ban for a few years till the appeal was finally concluded. The early this year and very reputable journalist and author has decided to do books do two books about the pic in case the first one was called the Picton files, and this one is called on the farm Robert William picked and the tragic story of Vancouver, is missing women. There's a Stevie Cameron, she's known for writing. A book about Canada's Prime Minister called on the take exposing the German. I guess arms dealer salesman, his name is Schreiber an the relationship between can This prime minister, Brian Mulroney and her book was called,
take some investigative journalist not afraid to get her, get it his dirty. I guess looking into into big stories I'm not worried about rustling any feathers and she's decided to write this book on. The farm is seven hundred and fifty pages comes out in hardcover by Nov, Knopf, NAF and incredible book. I've just started this book because I've been very busy, but it's just an amazing book. It's one of the most spectacular trials in cases in true crime, history, absolutely without any exaggeration whatsoever, the details of what the police found There are some victims: it narrowly escaped death at the hands of Robert Picton. It is again at least another story of police ineptitude at a very, very high level, ignoring one of
grown and chastising them and actually demoting him, because one of their own had suggested that there was a serial killer at work in the Vancouver area. In British Columbia, Canada and no one live into this gentleman and sure enough. That's what they add operating in the bank who are just outside it Vancouver area for many years. There is part of the book and she will talk about it on the program. I'm sure 'cause I'll be asking this question. There is now talk, that's his leaked out from various stories and again the press has been very hesitant to report very much, there's a publication ban, but also there's great outcry in Canada, over graphic detail than Bernardo Homolka case or any type of case, where there
graphic testimony evidence rue some details. Canadians, unlike Americans, don't want to know. We live somewhat sheltered life and- and I think we have said it before Canadians escalating- we believe that were very much different than Americans. We believe, honestly, that Americans much more violent than we are as Canadians as from what we see an end. Your higher murder rates are just, I guess, part of that evidence for them. However, when we do see the kind of shock, shocking and gruesome and bizarre and horrific crimes like, were you
used to hearing somewhat routinely in America in the bigger cities and sometimes not in bigger cities? That Canadians are then believer in denial that we are very very similar to Americans and if we were to have the kind of social situations or social problems that that America has and combine with axe test. Two handguns and- and I can at a very much like United States- is experiences, a lot of murder and violence as a result of current drug laws. You call it prohibition but the current drug laws, and it won't get into any kind of debate regarding that. But the fact The matters there's lot of gang related, an organized crime related murders not constantly, but certain to a certain degree. Anyway, thank God. We've got
Kathy Scott on the line. So I'm going to put a right on and we'll get going with this program thanks very much for being comfortable with this and Kathy. Are you online? I just got back from San Diego. Thank you for your patience. Thank you very much, Cathy. Thank you for joining the programme. I was boring the audience there. While we waited for you, I'm sorry. I apologize no problem. Thank you very much for agreeing to this program. So let me start off with one of my stock questions that I normally ask of guess, because I'm very curious what made you come to the decision to write a book about Susan Berman, the daughter of infamous Vegas mobster, Davie Berman? Well,
what what struck family. I remember exactly where I was when I when I heard the news I was out on an on Malta, Dave Bicycle. Right actually and we had a win written call Dan. We had the tv on in the room everybody just kind of preparing for the next day and and the news came on- and you know I always Vegas You know because I live in Vegas and I'm there's always a Vegas related story. That's interesting to me I like to write about underdogs and- and they just couldn't seem the I followed the case and they couldn't seem to find the killer, and so I gravitate toward that sort of thing to try to you know I don't know. If I can say we try to help, but you know trying to get to the bottom of it and kind of investigate at myself, and I just think it's a sad case. I think it's sad that that whoever killed her has
it brought to justice in our son. I feel, like I know Susan. I came close to meeting her, but I never did and I think he's starting needed to be dull. Ok, let's go back now a little bit to give people a background of Davie Berman We need to know a little bit about in what I thought was interesting, living in Winnipeg here for the past sixteen years is that the Davie Berman volunteered, for the army up in Canada. The fight in a circle of war tell us about why he joined. Canadian Army and how did he fair in the military, tell us a little bit about that stories. I think it's very interesting America wanna take him how to get a record and they won, and I ve always obvious I may be with you know he was in the gambling amino in Minnesota and Stephanie in everybody knew you hung out with their not hung out but he was one of the monster he was coming up in the ranks and in the Mafia and
I'm really the jewish mafia back then, and what was that nineteen think they moved to Vegas around forty five tat. My right, I think the same. Nothing Susan was six months old ones. She moved here, so is long before he met her mother and his brothers chicky. You know who stayed by his side. You know his whole life. He joined up to, and here I am it be- and I don't have the book in front of me that he ended up being decorated. You know with he did, did actual actually an exemplary job and he wanted to fight and be part of them. You know hello Then he uhm, and so the Canadians welcomed him with open arms right yes in a lot of people wanted to join up in the military back. Then the guys were dying to get in and out her go now
So he was honorably discharged from the military and then you had to put to it a little bit. He does have a criminal background for robbery and did some time about seven years before any of this LAS Vegas situation, but something a little bit more about Davy Berman, the character I found it very interesting say he wanted to volunteer for the military did an exemplary job. He was decorated. The thing is, was they tell us a little bit about his character? Was he a hard drinking womanizing guy gamblers tell us about. In Davie Berman was it's 'cause. It seems to be very interesting aspect of the contrast, Davy Byrne, the guy, and what are you? Actually? It is the meaner and what not? He was rather quiet, charming, but quiet in a certainly was ended. Tony's blotter are anything like down in these regional men get if you can call them,
gentlemen mafia? You know, and it was it was the jewish mob and in Ireland by airlines he came here and in a Bugsy Siegel of course took over the flamingo, and you know hooked up Sunday, our hooked up together and they brought in in people to help run and and Davy was brought in from within minutes out. At that time I think he was brought in to run the Fleming go down, and here they are many went the synagogue every Saturday like he told you, then you know you go by the synagogue and tell her. You know I built that for you. He did it, of course, because I verify that people their 80s. Who said no, the boys down the street may have donated some money and he may have been one of them, but he did it build it, but he was just here in LAS Vegas. They'd almost come here to legitimize himself because they become philanthropist.
You know I mean they name the pillars of the community and there was an understanding that they could come here and do business, but they couldn't kill within the borders, You wanna do anything like that. You go outside the border, Nevada and across the state line, and it's fine, so they they actually legitimize themselves here and there allowed to do the rackets and everybody knew there was skimming. You know for the then and that's what he did and he said he was a nice man. He was Susan was in love with her father in her she was ass. She was that daddy's girl and he was a nice man. But a shaky was allowed a hand and not a leader, but Davy was the leader but very quiet and kept tat. He kept a low profile. No bliss go back
little bit to tell us a little bit about Susan's mother Gladys. What was she really like and what was her life as a a wife of a mobster? How how things work with Gladys? But it actually scared to death, and she you know she didn't know, of course, that he was in the mafia when she married him and- and he brought her in Susie to LAS Vegas to run You know he was going to have a high position in the one made the hotel and, of course, you know, jump forward a little bit then of course learned should allow and ass. You can call eighty arm what he did at least that's what she said Anne you know one of her. I know that the Vienna her mother had a couple of nervous breakdown, because the pressure- and you know they when they built their house, they had a cute little english tutor on out I'm downtown on us its avenue. I believe it was six or seven and killed.
Now, a little little teeny, tiny law office that the back window and you can go buy it see it on the alley back window real really high in her bedroom and they raised. That said there can be a drive by shooting and so glad knew what he did and there and when their la la about rising, he would send to allay our he'd go with them They go hang out and instead the Bell ERA, the Beverly Hills, hotel and an shop and that sort of thing integrity. Sometimes they go to New York, but most part they just go to LOS Angeles to get away, and then one things settle down there. They come back and accounts Gladys that it take it. Well, and on she went away when she left when Susan was still in grade school, do they put her in what they
I don't know assisted living whatever it was back, then you know arrest Tom to jet shock treatment. That's our mother. It was sat with his sad existence for a mother Fisher. Wasn't the typical! You know my boy, still enjoy going to parties and stuff like that. It wasn't like that right they kept a profile had meetings at the house, the other, the big guys, and there was a bodyguard who basically lives with them and took Sudan everywhere, we go to play with them. So was up. It was a pretty protected existence for Susan and was very separate from what we might think as a model. Distance or a mob lifestyle. She was very isolated phenomena. She asked you want. I mean that the interesting thing is you can go, The library- and I did I went to to one of the main main libraries and you can pick up the old. You can go. Look at the old telephone boat center,
but in the book that you go to in you some through the telephone books and you can look up up down Seventh Ave six avenue. Fourth Ave, all the moth guys went there is welcome. Yeah the names are on the phone book, and that was part of that. It was on the site, a guys. You know it, it was, they were just regular Joe and they were accepted and never question. You ask anybody. I did a story lobby fur on, but I think that the israeli light or something which, a few years ago, the interviewed a lot of fun children who went to called during that time and they felt safe and end a couple of second hand. Nothing ever happen when we have the mob run in the town rapidly safer play, sent people de la their doors in they innovating give anybody in town any trouble. You know that did whatever they did, but you know nobody talked about. It didn't make the papers much sure. Now,
a name everyone will recognise is that of a Bugsy Siegel on played by warrant in Bugsy. Please explain you eve. Eve alluded to it, Please explain the actual arrangement, it existed, involving Siegel baby boy. In my earlier in regards to the flamingo go and then as sort of an additional question. What happened after buggy was killed. So maybe you can tell us about its talked about in the We I don T, know you did the reactor so out of a how accurate it every every aspect of it is. But a talk to us about me. I've got the and got them most of it down that it gave you been tab. Person who randy you know. I mean he help around the casino when he came in, and you know that Siegel
I was you know he practically begged it come into into Vegas. Instead he could do it and you know they didn't really have a high end casino at that time and it was considered. The fling flamingo was considered way s on this trip. You know as far s as you go, and it was just nothing but desert all around and he had all these lofty ideals in it Tom. He bought it from a guy named Missus Wilkins, the funding from a guy who went, went belly up. He tried to try to build a hotel and couldn't it finished building it can get it off the ground. Couldn't get enough backers info fancy talk the mind into buying it in there they banquet hall them and he would run it and you know, but he was in. It came off a few people in the mud and in Indiana, whatever her way ever reason in our date they ask em and waiting
the casino at that moment and they got a phone call diner. It's over or whatever, and that from the moment he was shot and they got word. They instantly hadn't even made the news. Yet imports back man was in the papers for another day and they take the moment he was dead. They took over the flamingo and that's when Davy started on. He was it tat. He was a guy and they re often damp, and then you will see you know that the joint Bob allowed the Italians and you know so its size and offered him dinner now intertwined itself that that Tina whether that was by design or not. You know, to bring him in for better appearance is not being italian or something I don't know, but it seems to. Very well back. Then that's that's how you took over and he was there anointed one went back, he died.
He'll, be the one who ran the place. Now was Susan's father, Davy Berman died in nineteenth he seven I and was there any question is how asked how he had died and why Why are you had a head surgery and on an end Henderson? You know nearby Henderson on at a hospital bed. He I believe it was gallbladder surgery or one of those type and surgeries and on Tuesday was twelve years old and I guess he was going in for surgery- and he I you know all the research I did. You know what I and was then like left a sponge inside there's something I got an interaction and die from which, as we know, these things happen that their it it was questioned. It came up and the old
newspaper articles when he died. I pulled all the stories when you know the review journal on the last big, his son, and a couple of I think there was another one, LAS Vegas in dependent, or something like that and saying that some question at that there was nothing too that he you know he died in surgery. I don't know that he had in But there is any motive to kill him. You know, but then they Susan's mother, when he died, was in you know in the system, are in place and allay Sunday moved on. They move Susan from LAS Vegas, too allay to be near her mother, but she lived in a separate apartment away from her. I believe in and the body guard went with her and then her mother died. The next here am I jumping in my jumping too soon. No, no, no that's sir. She died the following year, the urine. How did she die and was there any speculation as to what happened?
Sure and Susan later this Susan later questioned it both? You know you have to understand, sues and miss you, a question quest later, the inner Susan it's like, nationally. She, you know when her parents died, especially her father 'cause. She was so close to him at her. Whole world changed. You know and Andrew she. She basically was stuck stuck in LAS Vegas planted there firmly at aged. Well, an emotionally didn't really, I mean intellectually. Of course she grew up in emotionally. She she was firmly planted in LAS Vegas. And here do you remember things is a little girl and in our not all of them in opened out you're out of here a book about it, easy street, but her other died and to support the may die. I mean I think she died of a broken heart, but she supposedly died of
overdose, or you know she wouldn't. She was young and our mother was young that wasn't really. She kind of checks out for motherhood You know in her father was raising her and then the bodyguard, of course Lou, who she loved an and then you know as soon as as soon as she died, because Susan said she was killed. Her mother was killed because of the money, but they still have to pay Susan. I'm got a lot of money over the years in her shadow, spotless turn twenty one in our Jackie actual lived out part of her uncle. She won. He be with her away to Oregon, then put her in Chadwick in a private school and went to school with Liza in, and people like that and and who's taking the money. And then, when she turned, you know we put in college and twenty you see I am, and I he was living, often found
if she got a lot of money over the years, so that motivation of money to kill the mother doesn't make sense, because you know he on his own part, is riviera part of the flamingo, some apartment buildings and things like that, and so the proceeds Susan, let you know had for years, so that it doesn't make sense because it wasn't like they didn't pay anybody that why they paid her they take the mother. It doesn't make any difference, but where is never evidence you know nobody ever investigated is on the side. Right now you talk about Susan. She chose to pursue a writing career. How did she fair? with that. You already mentioned that she wrote one book, but what did she write about in the very beginning? Well, she is You won't say I interviewed the dean of students because she went to arm offers on Cyprus, you, whether you feel ay and that's why she met Bobby, but she went to
it would be our life long friend an lady around suspect in a murder, but she met him there and then she transferred to Uc, Berkeley, University, California Berkeley and went to their journalism school or, as we say, J School and I interviewed the dean of the J School and she was. It was interesting. I interviewed a couple of people who attended oh what their and one you went on to work at the LOS Angeles times in and she could it be. She was bored with school and she didn't try hard and things seem to come easy tour and, on the dean, tell me that she never eat him. He likes her and his wife were really good friends with her and stayed friends with her. You know up until her death, but he he said he was very dis, pointed when the San Francisco examiner offered her a job because he thought it was too easy. It came too easy, too
easily. If you're as so many things tat, she was spoiled and says she started felt entitled. There's a my daughter and she would tell everybody that you, you know that father was a monster, and I bet you did last long at the Chronicle art examiner, rather because she didn't get along with sing along with people, and she didn't you know. Didn't want to work hard and while she was in San Francisco, she heard is it herb? Can her Can she I e en yeah he's a dare call understands. You now that this grill and she was in his column all the time. So she can't became a big big deal. You know she's his best years were San Francisco, and you know after that. Of course you went to New York, her best years were there when she went to la everything, went downhill for a very long time right when and exactly how it 'cause. It's very interesting. Part of your book did Susan Discover, who are father really was in terms
of his mafia criminal background, and what did she do as a result? How did she react so it was. It was someone she knew. I think someone she knew from college and someone told Calderon at the time she was living an think. At that time she had moved to New York and she's still in college, tell people but in high, so I talked to people. She grew up with all by the way, if I can backtrack to her child, I could name TAT daily life energy at a lot and several times, and he actually went her fathers wake and on and its true about that she threw herself. He was there to herself and her fathers coffin during the fuel she was always very dramatic- can never got over it, but he said that his parents, while he could play at her house, he was allowed to play at her house or take the limo down to parties and stuff who he was one of her few friends in school.
Her apparent his parents would not allow her into their home rather interesting their land though there, but they want to hurt. You know I mean everything that wait. He and she went met this guy at a bar on that day in our plan meeting and he wanted to tell her something she went. And pulled out a mug shy, there's something I wanted. I think it was a wanted poster that she actually hung on our wall. Sorry, I'm in a minute. But the allowance actually outside sorry about that Have you told her, you know this is your father? Wasn't he opened up a book? An entity found a page in it. Said who Chicky was, and it said who her father was, and so then she she didn't believe them. And then she went to a bookstore Ann looked up every book she could find and she went to the library
and found every reference. And then she found that her dad. But there wasn't that much written about him, but she confirm so she did. I am afraid I must inform you an act put before you We call on you paper, the FBI and right that she said, and paperwork and arm. She got her fathers file and it was several boxes and went through it and from bad you know she never plan to. You know ride I'll Nonfiction book Ino, you know she's been riding, she started some. You know fiction about which he did well with those and from that came easy street. The buggy easy street with their they're going to turn into a movie too, but right now, what was it about? What was it about? Aid is very goodbye way. Yes, it is a highly acclaimed. Everyone talks about what are you know, what a great brute Booker wasn't and her follow up. Lady LAS Vegas, not so much there was not one is not. What is a book about?
specifically. Was it completely true and how was it accepted by critics and how did members of the mafia react? Mafia didn't seem to care, you know about the books, he says I mean Susan, didn't know anything and then So this was how many years later you know, what's fifteen years later or something but our ten. Whatever was then she, because of who she was she had. You know entree into you, know, Vegas, You know the people who run Vegas Steve when, in his wife s lane they helped her on any social. She was on later. She helped produce that help right it and and also in her later. You know, Lady LAS Vegas. She had you know entree into into that whole whole group of people that other people can't penetrate, and so actually it helped her and they didn't care because she didn't know anything
and nothing new what's happening and that it is. She was on it Jane, Polly interviewer. I think she was on CBS or something and she shadow on the shore and arm Nobody owns the rights to that book right now. Few people are trying to get it, but Dial press. I think nobody knows who owns it. So the book is out of print and has been for a long time, a lot of people trying to grab it up and can't but yeah it's it's, but the interesting hang on that is she had a book. She had a movie, they'll come true and Susan collected people and she collected people who could be useful to her and her career people in the music industry, publishing industry and shape. New guy at a record company answer. He kind of act. It is causing an agent and she was paid.
Oh, I I don't remember it was one hundred and eighty seven thousand or something isn't it as a movie option. You know, and then she was so difficult to work with that they killed the movie deal right. She never she never got over. Then she didn't have to pay the money back, but she never got over that and she grew more and more eccentric as she got older. What was the easy street? Was? It was a memoir ask what was easy. However, their young am, I ask a level get us through. The rose rose, color glasses of a twelve year old, buying a dog amazing style, as it is just such a nice Alan. I quote from it in the book back she there. If they like, like saying you know my dad my dad built the first synagogue
LAS Vegas Fund. Only then it you know they may have attended it, but no, no, they didn't. You know that shalom and things that she kind. Don't forget. You know she like she said she was kidnapped. I could find no, you know. Court court records are criminal records on it, but she said she was kidnapped out front. The issues it Fifth Avenue heist. I've found these schools where she attended school. It was just two blocks from her house, too short locks and some and open the door and grab during tour in the back seat, and there are bunch of comic books on the back seat with her and as he started to drive, If you drove away and stopped at the stop light and she, kicked in the door and and she's eight years old and got out and aimed at first sight the story we don't know, but things like that she has in it and it's just some interesting about mom and her dad and she
no she kind of downplays the in some respects. She down plays the role of her father because she knew that he was you know he was he at one point had been a hitman apparently, but she downplays that sort of thing about him. It's kind of this very rose, colored, glasses, but a good read and you learn a lot. If anybody wants to get it, you can buy it off of goodbye. It used offered Amazon. It's expensive, but you can buy it interesting, yeah, going back with the FBI to what I thought was interesting. Is that one of the things that was said to her either through the FBI or the reporter that a blabbed, his mouth about the Father or the person prisoner, told her about her father's background was that they said matter of factly yeah. He was a trained killer. So actually gonna kill a man with one arm behind his back and the other yeah, and that's a famous line that his chief scattered on the James so Show said it on
radio show later. You know this american life. I think she was on with a couple of other mob kids or you know, relatives of monsters, and she always would quote that line, because it was in a book that he was uh he was, he went, he wasn't a hard and they didn't have that hard and look- or you know he didn't have If you didn't know, if you saw my mistreat, you wanted to have thought that he didn't have. You know the Vegas look, you know this foot back here, kind of. I mean just sort of the thug look and he in the type of suits and stuff. It was quite a sharp dresser too apparently You didn't have that any didn't. He wasn't a tough guy and people who work for love them either damn bill Miller. Who was a couple of years. I think he was a couple years younger than the eyes again Susan and he became actually governor and his father went to prison, for I forget what that he was kind of hooked up with the mob a little bit
and- and I bought an hour and Bob Miller was the lifeguard. You know at the before me now and it would always be invited to citizens parties that IP kid that workers who were involved. It's your party's kids, she didn't know very well, and he- and he said you know everybody love baby- that that he was a gentleman and treated treated employees with respect. So he You know he didn't push his weight around or anything like that. He was like a gentle gentleman monster. And Susan had no problem. I guess you could call it exploiting exploiting that relationship. She had with that ever nation she had and those behind the scenes, people in Vegas and romantic using the entire mafia. As well as on the mob and in Vegas, which included her father. So she had no problem doing that nursery
and nobody, nobody yeah, that's what she did and nobody seemed to care. I like she bragged about Elvis Center Birthday Party and Liberace Birthday parties and Jimmy Durante, giving their deaths- and you know she was susan- was a name dropper, and it's interesting that she she tried to hook up the people. She stayed friends with were famous or anthemousa. You know I mean she was something: was it useful to her for the most part she did it keep them his friends with interesting kind of what she is definitely had an effect on her growing up in that environment. As really Ahmad Princess issued spoiled. You know, spoiled spoil girl, yes and then the rest of her life. She felt entitled sure now you do talk about the robber Bobby Durst and that in the college,
but you tell us a little bit more about when and how they met. You said it back college, but how did they meet? Was a relationship intimate or what kind of relationship was it now they were on their own, which I referred here may serve as a brother. She never had an they met. At the eyes ears a year or two older than her? I think that day he only attended UCLA for a year and he was there for a graduate degree, but she didn't finish Susan was therefore undergraduate and abandon the quad. You know outdoors, and you know the city in areas where the kids to students and may not out there and that their common Trysts were that their mothers had died. He actually witness his mother committing suicide by jumping off the family. And he was on the ground when she landed every
again and that every Vienna profile within down on him and said that that effective, so right, then they had issue is she was you know her mother died well and when she was young and said they had that that commonality and just sort of intellectually he was, you know he came from now. Will you know the dearth corporation and use real estate owners and developers in Manhattan and which came in handy for drinks later when his wife is missing and that never romantic shoes an interested in hand, and vice versa, that day they were on each other. She basically followed him to New York 'cause, that's where he lived. So she after working is the examiner. She freelanced at city lights, rode on a broader and article how to get right and San Francisco and back. Then it was a big deal and then
I made a famous fancy. She use active sign into New York and get with a New York magazine. I order self cheaper and cheaper than she thought Bobby Alot they go to lanes and a whole group of people would go and wearing new men. Some settings that live was one of their friends and they just had this whole following that people now was Abdur is the real eccentric character at that time, and also you didn't mention that you mentioned that she was a mob princess and felt she was entitled, but she felt entitled, and she, like you say she knew people that were powerful and or famous and or wealthy. So Bobby Durst gave her money, but but there's other people that gave her money as well. So that wouldn't be so unusual, but tell us about tell us a little bit about that and and tell us, because you don't talk too much about it, but about the behavior of Bobby Durst at that time was the
eccentric guy, because later his behaviour is quite different. Now he went on with quiet enough. Sometimes you have to watch out for the quiet. Before you now still water and deepen embodied earth case. That was that they met me many happy jurist in in New York and she was very sweet and normal and one You got a minute. What was attending medical school and eighty came, there are people Well, you know I interviewed for the book who said that you know a parties when Kathy would go in. Susan would be there too, and she was Kathy's friend, but she was Bobby's friend first, that Bobby was controlling over her about you know where she go. And who she talked you and that sort of thing you is never that way with Susan. That arm then Bobby's Vienna. They had a fight and Bobby's wife ends of missing and. And someone called the medical school to say that she wanted be attending. It was a woman and everybody, but
you said I believe it to that. Susan was his alibi and was the because she you know she I forget with the alibi, was that she she confirmed something and then was the one they believe who called in seeing that I find it. The attending school is so and that's a deep, deep sacred to hold for someone in our view, and she felt that the media requests for him, which was a big deal after I, Cathy Dirt, it was a huge story in Manhattan after she was missing and you know, she's never been found and her body hasn't been and they declared her dad. You know years later that Susan filled indeed, all the energy for Bobby Does Europe around a meteorite yeah, so she was very supportive, but when the police didn't find out immediately, though, that the,
that the actual time of death- or they didn't put together that someone had made a call, and it certainly wasn't Kathy and it must have been some other woman. So this is this does happened right away. Bobby Durst has the ability to avoid charges. Initially, I wonder if he didn't report, you didn't report that his life is missing, for I dont know three four or five days, some feeling that you won't be locked in the Manhattan. It was not living in Manhattan, but they had an apartment in Manhattan and they lived Alex Cute. Yeah I'd. I can't remember where they lived, but it wasn't in the city, but they had an apartment there and she would say there's sometimes when Kathy would, when she'd have to attend class,
and so you didn't report it right away and I went to the Manhattan Station- an interviewed, you know a couple of people there the cops and asks why you know why wasn't this investigated? They did not investigate it as a homicide, they didn't, they took his word for it. It do any searches for a while and then it ever really look at it as a homicide. It was just a missing person. They said she ran off, which now it is, they had a terrible five. She was visiting a friend that night at a party, and you know that their captain Johnny, who is very good friends with whom I worked on catheters and Belize, and her heart of hearts that that Bobby, jurors Fisher Keller, people try to connect that you, Susan murder, later you now that she was gonna, spell the deed
it's a body after because of it now explain that you did Bobby and for the logic of that Bobby, has a relationship with with Susan he's, the prime suspecting them. In the day, of his murder in the murder of his wife and Susan. You talk about in the book, Susan told at least one person, if not more, that he had admitted that he had killed his wife. So that the out of a larger Europe yard she taught yeah, she talk and either she kept secret a day. You know if it's here she kept a secret for a very long time and she was Susan, wasn't good with money she would come in. Two lots of money. She never told her friends that you know one point three given like what was at one point: three million dollars or something she's getting in an increment wine, which you know her uncle border it. You know,
college Vondra, a convertible, Mercedes, Benz and yeah. You know is middle of Vietnam. Eritrea is kind of out of place, it you see Berkeley and she did twenty one. She got a lot of money to pay for education to under support and then twenty five she got it chunk and thirty, I think, was when either twenty five or thirty when she got some one point: three million. I think she got large amounts in the later. There was some property that sold that her dad actually owned, and she got a payment from that too, and she always complained that she didn't get anymore we from the mob and it wasn't true, I pulled up all the financial records are filed with the state and Davies. Amazon and then her name is on it too. You know I've been there, but she went to buy
She didn't have any money, she couldn't get work when she was in LA and she went to Bobby for money. She needed a car and she needed support. You'd been it out of the place. She lived in the house, let them and on Bobby made that when he was missing in Texas, but she didn't know it guy living jumping the gun. But what is a woman woman, and he sent her two separate checks for twenty five thousand dollars. Each and people say well that was, Hale, but that was Bobby. We I don't know when he gave her over the years he could have given her other large checks set
he never told anybody about. You know right now. The thing is what I don't know, if is clear, but is that the murder case was reopened. The Kathie Durst murder case was reopened and then and then there was a balance to they wanted to interview Suzon. Yes, that's an integral part of the story. Yeah so go be able to know. Johnny said that there was a leak by police and she blamed police because Bobby Durst, she claimed. The Bobby Durst then knew that that Susan was going to be questioned about the Kathie Durst case and and obviously there was information and it was known to police or they believe that someone had made a call in which was a woman, and so that makes a lot more sense for a motive for Bobby Durst. To have this murder.
Is he here and there? In the end he doesn't, he doesn't have an alibi which are revealing. The book in ours is attorney debt to guarantee you Bobby Jurists attorney. Who is a very good one in a wanted TOP one hundred he's been named in the defense attorneys in the country yeah. She was shortly before Susan's death by a noose for article came outside? In that case, the catheters disappearance case was being reopened, and Susan was a person of interest that they were to get a hold up to interview and then Susan held a couple of her friends that the stuff was going to hit the fan that there was some information she had and then they assumed then it's just another mob story. You know nobody cares anymore, more that part of them. This so old that in retrospect they looked at it and said she was probably talking about Bobby. You know,
Susan have done. I mean she was loyal to at that's one thing: she learned from her father there is you know you, don't you don't? You know archon people you, you know you keep secrets, I mean she. If it's true, she kept a secret for a very long time for Bobby's. So what would motivate? We just gave her money. What would motivate to you now turn left out? Hammer become a witness for this state. I'm here I don't. I don't. Maybe you weren't she would but who ever came to arouse tat night. She leaped pepper finance and she had also another another clue to funding Bobby Dirt. Next to the murder. Is he on she felt and friends that Bobby was gonna come his visitor? He was in San Francisco. There's going to be interpreted too could be out of place
ere, I condo I'm in the city and he was gonna go to allay visitor and he was gonna. Take her back to San Francisco. What she told France. Now what you haven't explained- and I'm just very curious- is that you just alluded. You just talk about his cross dressing and and and posing as a mute woman. Did he just all of a sudden start crossdressing did he start cross dressing because he needed a disguise is just part of you read any higher. What what is going on is, I think, a little bit about it. He I mean they. The guy was definitely is you got older, was eccentric, bringing our fellow citizens. I think that was part of the appeal with each other. Is they both for eccentric and and I think there were damaged she was damaged by the loss of her parents. He was damaged by the suicide of it in front of emanate seven, so they both were damaged but ya, hear anyone
Galveston Bay too, because I think he went there and disguise because the Kathie Durst Investigation was closing in on, and so he goes to Galveston Bay to a little crummy, area of town and new near the water near Galveston Bay and ran this little motel kind of a? You know weekly rental or whatever. They are a little just in a little beach place and his neighbor s arm more and more black hand at all the guy and baby friend each other and are currently pissed off body and on. He said that uh there is a gun and, and it was drawn, but he didn't mean to he didn't mean to pull
the trigger and that he accidentally killed one Morris black and so render them. He got a saw chain. Scientist thought him up in me in the rational and put him in bags in drop. TIM in Galveston Bay and then a fishermens in his twelve year old son were out fishing and came across body parts. I think we had head first, and can you imagine that and then he went on that. He went on the lam after after dropped us, you know, drop the body parts into the day. He then you know, went on the Lamb and he was caught shoplifting shoplifting the sandwich and a poodle Pardon me out upon the map and the Lamb go so he's on the Lamb Fur Donald, time for a little while until they finally finally got him. So while she was in between you know, I talked
it's a gear, and it was interesting in ya. I love it when things like this happen in writing. Our stories, if I can get to him, are you now that I was interviewing, get began again and said. You know I'm here Bobby was never interviewed by them by the police forces, murder, sell the LAPD economy, dropped the ball and a couple of ways you'd never interviewed. Dick was an so I asked I asked MR the Guarantee Fund Bobby had an alibi because he's got an alibi. He was in San Francisco. He was in the air headed from San Francisco to New York when she was killed or that wasn't accurate. He was in the air when her body was found that she's been dead for twenty four hours, which one more map or tax. That's an hour flight from subsisted ally as a four hour drive five hour drive for anyhow and on I've done it, and I so
we actually had plenty of time there's what was he doing the day before you know Friday night. They are now and whoever whoever laughed a body with also one of the things they have in common huge animal lover and he appeared. He had an afghan dog and chew. Was she had on three cod air carriers and hyper little dogs and who ever killed her left the back door open? So those dogs could come and go. And that's how they found out her body was in there, because your dogs were running in the front yard on candidate Canyon, road, Right already out, I mean at all points to him the day they say they don't have enough evidence on my God. Listen to lash evidence in the OJ case. What would you do it this way? No to that someone I'm at it at least theorized tonight I see I see examples of this where you already
have amount of first degree murder charge doing life without parole. It takes a lot of effort to mount a case in a lot of money, and you have to have a lot of evidence so yeah with them, UNESCO can statue evidence today can be taken. You circumstantial miss entered, they didn't really pursue, they didn't they should have immediately. It's like her. You know, and then you've got another person of interest at the time they say is no longer person of interest, but her manager- and you know you want to call on the manager. He was a friend, unanimous apartment, complex when she lived off at sunset, with four free by the way for five years and Anon Actresses ass, singers apartment you who offered her when she, you know file bankruptcy. He she offered that Susan can live in our apartment. With her boyfriend's daughter,
Susan stayed for five years. Can you imagine she just had a way of people? People did things. Are you now is how many people are people who newer and they loved her, but they were also exasperated by her. You know I mean she offers her some place to live temporarily and she five years now, and they have produced quite complaining because she had three dogs in there, and I guess I guess we ve been in their year said the boy I guess the place where the math, but that's why she met her manager and walking her dog down the street in he was walking his and he just cut it took over managing ervic. She never gave him and on he was upset with her because showed him money and he actually broke into the house the day Susan's body with
around and on he broke into the house, looking for her bank record so on, but they didn't searches, house or office for two months, so they think they dropped the ball in some respects because they they didn't get Bobby. There is never any video, just his attorney and inner never check fur in EL fingerprints, So whatever you know matching whatever they could omnium and will you know one his when he was ultimately arrested further more black murder, he on which you got off the addictive and got him acquainted on self defence and on he in his the talk of his car word your guns and one with a nine millimeter Susan was start with a nine millimeter and the ballistics on that issue. Then we shall once in the back, they had come on out of her arm clean out
going into her eyes spare room and I'm out like somebody. Following her into the room. You know, but it was someone she knew and they ballistics on on that and the bullet at her house were inconclusive very ago interesting. So what's what's the latest, the update on this whole case Bobby Durst? What's with latest rap up on this on this thing here? Well, I don't you know, I don't know that they ever going to you know. Do anything I'm going to talk to to the you know investigator on the case. Then there you know they get leads periodically, but nothing major and they admit that mistakes were made. But even if
these earth that you told me folk alter. Even if operators came in and said I did it, they still have to have evidence that he did so J. Don't have the evidence to they say I mean I've seen circumstantial case come in with glass jury decider you let the grand jury decide whether they want to indict him, but they never put this thing forward. I mean he got it passed from Manhattan because of who his father was. You know Seymour Durst, you Jimmy around half the Manhattan air. And he seems to have gotten the past ever since I had one of the best criminal defense attorneys in the country You can't blame them really. You know I mean the guys not been convicted of murder. You know and he's connected these types of. Murders and you'll never never been connected thought now. You know, I think it's that I think, is one of two people and in the case that there are some, I dont know shorter finding.
The smoking gun. I don't know that this case will ever be solved. Yes, What's your point, the Bobby Durst overlooks makes men yeah, the manager a little. He was acting strange and you know you know so I don't use his name, but he he just had kind of some things that just don't add up with him, but yeah Bobby it looks like Bobby. Did it, but it I mean it would be the biggest will cross that this century. If he, if he did do that, I mean the way I look at it. You know just because you killed someone else doesn't mean, held her. You know what I mean day. It's hard to say case wasn't, handle you as it could have been so we'll, never know certain certain points, but fascinating
I think her, and I think I found I think it's sad that no one has some you know come to justice in her case Julia that their weapon. She knew she was in its it. It's a fascinating till because of all the historical background, information that you providing. It is almost why graphical about a mod princess and person trying to write. So it's very interesting too. Her whole life, like you, say, Liberace and Elvis come into a birthday party. It is a real glimpse into the real story. Not the Hollywood version So it's a it's a great thank you and it's a whole different. It's a whole different error. That's gone now is not the Vega said today you know, and so it is that it is the real snapshot into what it was like back then yeah, it's about the the only part of the mob that they could be romanticized, because there was some aspect of a little bit of charm in a little bit of class, despite being thugs, you know so definitely
definitely the good old days of crime underwent crime was a little more civilized unbelievably, if it could be. But the boys on the boys on the street. I love the way that one woman said yeah the boys down the street. Those are the guy at the mob on this trip, but anyway You're welcome I'm happy to be here, and I appreciate you giving me that I'm well. Thank you very much for agree. Interview and uh about a great book, people have been listening to murder of a mafia, daughter, the life and tragic death to Susan Berman with my guest Kathy Scott. Thank you very much Kathy have yourself a good evening. Thank you Dan. You too goodnight Even listening to the program. True murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors have written about them with your host Dan Pesky a join me next week, goodnight
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.