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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Btk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening Cleveland strangler's best kept secrets revealed a man fights for justice and closure for an ex girlfriend an unknown survivor. The first to report to authorities are brutal attack,

by then nameless emerging, Cleveland Strangler, sadly her case was suspended within four months. A year later, Anthony soul would begin his killing spree the imfc. Eleven women of Imperial Ave, all strangle and stashed in and around his home. Why didn't Cleveland police? Take this woman's case serious? Did the city of Cleveland failed to comply with the federal Megan's law. Was there commune the notification of a registered sex offender in the neighborhood is the county Psychiatric libel for their sexual evaluation prediction Which was low risk to reoffend six percent? it's of re offending that was September two. In five, the Cleveland strangler lured in it Pack for nice creature in June. In two thousand and six.

And the sole murders occur two thousand and seven to two thousand and nine. The book that we're featuring this evening is my sister, cheaper, the Cleveland Serial killers, untold story with my special guest journalist and author Cd Newton welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, Cd Newton, thank you for example. Government have me on your show, appreciate it. Thank you very much. Let's I normally ask what brought you to this story, how you came to write this story, but the story itself is how you came to this story. So let's jump right into this fascinating. An incredible case and story. Tell us about vernice. Sorry talk about, let's tell us about Bernice Creature and tell us a little about yourself to introduce your background before we talk about Bernie's creature,

and Anthony soul in the Cleveland Strangler, certainly uh by education and trade. My background is in architecture and engineering. But I always had a fascination with storytelling so I'm also a playwright and a writer. Bernie's question. I began relationship sometime in the spring of two thousand and four and this Eddie occur about a couple years later. With regard to the structure, it should be in the interest of full closures. She does have a problem with addiction and mental health issues Ann. Basically, those are the type of victims that Anthony cell will target it, but what's fascinating about this particular case already is crusher at that time June, eight,

a two thousand and six, she was lured and force inside of an abandoned house where she was attacked by then a happiness. So well. Ann can He knew that he had killed and her then dinner inside the house numbers in debt, but more actively fifteen hours later, when these question regained consciousness, she staggered over to a friend Where he immediately called nine hundred and eleven, she was rushed to the er and that's why I received a phone call and, from that day, forward two hundred and nineteen two one thousand and six then a interesting ordeal to get her justice and closure. Saturday number but four months after her attack her cases you mentioned it was suspended. I believe we will do the fact that, when they didn't receive a matching side of Codis, which is the national database of fun, sex offenders,.

The case was suspended and unfortunately that was a very terrible decision for the residents of Cleveland and in about two one, slash two years later after her attack about the fall of November, two thousand and nine. The bodies. He let me buy you a discovery in and around Anthony Cell was home Ann in at the Abbott at continue evidence. Get information. Similarities Many other survivors in her case. And I actually showed Wendy's Crutcher an earlier photograph of Mister, so well, an actor. Is this your attacker and within a split second, she said to me: yes, that's him.

So from that point, four we went to the sex crime unit at any evicting would we try to obtain Jackson close at four, but unfortunately, conflict of interest, bias, same difference. Those have been hurt is that we've been trying to overcome in order to get her gestures, enclosures and we've been at this better every since and now we're on our third prosecutor. They try to present this case, took this cold case to him that he does have overwhelming fact and evidence to indict Anthony so well. And that's where we are now: let's go back As you eloquently do in this book, it's incredible the access that you have obviously by being having vernice

girlfriend and you meet her whole family, Wilma, Brenda, her entire family and you bring a day. Phase two and reality to prostitution for the same or this drug addiction, so the drug addiction driving everything and affecting everything, but still again here. This is cliche people with families, people with love ones that care well. This is the most fantastic story about the reality of. People that are vulnerable and have The problems in, as you say, mental health in his issues, but as we do it as you do in this book, let's go back to the attack for people to understand again the signature. You compared this with. When you get the phone call, well after she's attacked. Tell us about what you experience going to visit. Bernie's.

And, like you save from that moment on your inextricably involved, but tell us about the attack on what she told you about the attack and what did Anthony so well due to vernice creature, Thirdly, once I went into the Americans allowed to going to the emergency room- and I had a look at her. That was a life altering moment. On the cover of the book. I try to give you or just a glimpse. This is sort of lower down, but you could see it before shot where for nieces very attracted. This is before the attack she's a very an attractive female and the after. You can see that she suffered some injuries to her head in her face Ann When I was in the emergency room, I can tell that this was a very vicious and heinous attack. She had suffered multiple lacerations beating and she-

very pronounced, visible, white ring around her throat, which I later discovered a court was used to strangle her. Or stay later found in the crime scene now that particular injury Little did, I know, will become a signature calling card for future attacks that the later victims would also suffer. Strangulation. Yutaka sorry go ahead Now, I'm just thinking back in terms of the emotions that went through me at that point in time. It's just like this most horrific thing. I've ever seen in my life I everything a woman injured. To that extent,. And actually I thought they did- that for niece was not going to survive but, as I said it

later that I find out that this actually became his signature. Uh many of the tank and their needs will fit the profile of subsequent victims, women who suffer from drug addiction. Prophetess solicitation and those who lost his hind to health issues, because these are very bond. Remember our society as you mentioned, but this is where I thought the city of Cleveland County when it comes to sex offenders. That is so active September of two thousand and five nine months before her attack was a registered sex offender. He had just sir fifteen years in prison for rape, And he moving to Impure Ave on June of two thousand and five, which is about three miles away. From where he made for nice on EAST 79Th, ST in Cleveland's on the side.

So even though he was admitted to her, he wasn't a mystery to law enforcement and, for some strange reason, the county. Thank you. Ford has you mention Indiana the introduction when they did their evaluation or MRS sold to determine his sign. Predictability is repeated his offense again. The psychologist came to the conclusion that he would be six percent chance to re offend within five years? My research reveals that the questionnaire is used for MRS Stillwell, which contains ten questions. It refers to a static. Ninety nine. One thousand nine hundred and ninety nine was a year that this sound particular instrument was introduced, but they created over a course of time roll eyes that it was inadequate, so the Introduce a static two thousand and two for sensor

the reason the city of Cleveland we're still using in two thousand and five static, ninety nine Monday was determined to be flawed and inadequate. So as far as I'm concern They did not issue the proper, in addition to the fact that in one thousand nine hundred and ninety six, then president, William from Clinton signed into law, which is called Megan, is Megan's law hi, the community Notification ACT, which requires that states, an local municipalities, inform communities when they registered. Sex offenders move into their neighborhoods an offer. That's done through postage paid postcards which contains the retrospect, defended photographs, his address and a brief description of what is offensive done. Work. Well, that was an issue for that community for the guards around the area and mount pleasant area. And so now you have this volatile cocktail mix.

You have women who are prone to drug addiction, but you also have the civic failures and so for a period of time between two thousand and five in two thousand and nine. Those they were vulnerable and, unfortunately, the reality is this. If you don't want to take responsibility for it,. And I think that also comes into play the trees, that the reason why her case is not swiftly, then, given justice and closed, because I don't like some of the other survivors for at least actually reported gave a physical description and here's another factored into it to this, because in the expect her to survivors and she did- she went forward

find the physical description and right on the front cover of my book. I had a digital lineup that created the drivers are suspect. It appeared in our cities largest newspaper on June 30th, two thousand and six, so that needs close to one million people actually solved Anthony so uh description. He's a registered sex offender nine less previously, but no one would bother to connect the dots. Any unfortunate reason is because The data is that were primarily attack came from a disenfranchised community. Where had there been a more effective at the gates, and they did rely solely on DNA at the in a hit and a more thorough investigation. The chances are, they would have apprehended him and as eleven women would still be alive today, let's get back to the personal end of this which is

a very very important component of this book and the most profound- I would say in terms of impact on the reader- and that's we do and talk about you talked about the lacerations to Vernice is face, but tell us what he does. In terms that will name her physically and psychologically for life well, certainly being a female. Beauty is very important to any woman. I mean: that's, that's their presentation, that's their strength, after a power that their God given gift. Well, actually, so I actually took that from earth and sadly- and this is a bit of a Black spoiler the injuries resulting there loss of her right eye so now, she's. Basically mutilated. Without a right I now, if you have to look at the world through gesture left eye, and now she has these permanent scars and lacerations,

so psychologically, the active man we've been having a hard time dealing with that and EVA so the wounds they began to heal. Surprise me rather quickly, within a few months, the emotional scars last a lifetime and to add more insult to injury, the fact that She's been victimized by the criminal justice system in law enforcement. Were there reluctant to give her hurt constitutional justice and closure. So- that's certainly has had a devastating impact on her. Hi, I met with a mostly get ready to offer separate from chronic depression, but the fact that other survivors who had not reported their case at the time that the occurs but were sketched Whitley given indictments, that's also weighed

They have the upon her her psyche as well. So it's been a very traumatic ordeal for her and It would certainly give her justice and closure to be in that courtroom to express her outrage to him and at the same time holds system and its missteps accountable. It would completely change the narrative, and I think that one of the reasons why the party's office in the city is he left in about doing it, but be that as it may, the law is a law. And so rule of law has to prevail instead of buyers or conflict of interest in fact, in her life an dramatically physically, mentally and emotionally, and that human will not take place until she has her day in court. May I was there those initial months of the horrible

nightmares of her re liberty attack. You know for some reason for any twenty two price so in her recuperation with Maine so open up my home to work alarm. They have a bathroom, I think, the sofa for months I would apply. The necessary treatment to her wounds chain IRAN bloody gauze is with fresh I'm gone since before I went off to work an that that transition p Ok! Well, I can remember it vividly. It was very difficult for her. And those are real healing will take place as you would. Any rape survivor is when it can look. Sell it in the eye and express what he did to her, how he changed her life and simultaneously. Let the system know when you make missteps.

You also have to take responsibility. You have to be accountable as well, there's no such thing as a disposable human being. What, with the person that it is a franchise of limited means, a blind or wallach or anything with the liberty, every person it will give the victim is entitled to the proper healing process they're entitled to justice. Let's discuss something that I imagine if somebody was criticizing this, they would come up with this one issue, and so, let's deal with this contentious issue, as you explain originally Vernice does a description, accomplices drawing an is happy with it. To a sir, extent should obviously traumatized and wants to get out of there. So she had enough too much but she said that she was pretty

the weather, but it had far too much hair and then, Who discover three year investigation? What could have happened when she looked at a photo, and because of when that photo was taken. Tell us about the photo controversy. As you do explain in the book. Very good there I can get you ready. Well, yes, initially, indeed, in the on the front page of the October 31st, two thousand and nine plain dealer, the city

can, I get the nation for the first time sees a photograph of Anthony so long, he said, suspect he's a wanted. Man that folder describe Anthony Selwa fix feet are one hundred and fifty five pounds when I first to show grannys Crusher Sky photograph, she stared at it for about three minutes dead silence. I could tell I can see the gears in her mind. Turning but after she stared at this insider put for awhile, she said to me: no, that's not him! Now why you I've been reading every piece of data. I can get my hands on about this gentleman and I, marked up. It's got to be. You know, based upon what I knew if I would ever attacked two they have years earlier. So I think MIKE that they've got to be something wrong, I'm here so I think the internet, a little more research found it earlier photographing him

of course, that provide on the front cover of the book. The two look after the writers actually photographs the one on the far right. I show that to her sometime later. Actually it's about February, two thousand and ten and within a split second, she said to me: that's him! That's my attacker really excited with the same man I showed to you and they playing tell her. She said well, why do you look so different. Well, what I put here thank you very way to protect him a two thousand and five. I realized why he looked so differently from the front page of the plain dealer find a photograph that I found the earlier photographic found for the internet, Anthony Silua Flight,

it is victims. He was also a crack addict, as well as he drank heavily himself, so between the time that he was released in June in two thousand and five to the time, this catcher anti so actually logs nearly forty pounds, the psych evaluation described him as being six feet tall. One hundred and ninety five pounds, but he was down to one hundred and fifty five pounds at the time this capture, what man loses forty pounds in a span of four year. Well, that was the reason why, and that explains why she couldn't place him from the front page photographs. You quite a plain dealer, as opposed to the one that I retrieve from the internet. Forget it being all the p? To the park we came together next, where I also realized. Not only did she not place them because my instincts were telling me this has to be the man, But then I realized the day that I was searching for it within hours of her disappearance,

Anthony so well, and I crossed paths well 'cause I told her I set the photograph that I'm showing you. This is the man that briefly joined me at the bus shelter. The evening I was looking for you Because I really serve her neighborhood about seven hundred and thirty in the evening, and I saved about two hundred to precisely one hundred and thirty in the morning. I could not pull myself to leave the area, because I knew some is wrong because we had just talked by phone about an hour and a half or so before I restore neighbors. That- and she didn't since he was going anywhere and most of these locals that I took that. I am talk to. And asking him had they seen her. They always telling me the same. Ok, well, yeah she's around here somewhere. And when I left at one hundred and thirty in the morning, that's when I got the call rough about nine thousand, nine hundred and thirty from

Metro er, they see, have been involved in a very prudent a thought and she's asking for me to come to on the emergency room. And that's where all the pieces of the puzzle came together, that that men with actually leaving the crime scene and because he didn't own the car he took the number 14th of which I was up and down kinsman and from e 79th to his home. I looked it up is less than ten minutes, It goes right past in pure Ave, and I never knew that until two I have three years later, and then I realized. This is the same end. Now I provided under oath sworn affidavit to the cream Police Department, sex crime unit to the chief of police to the prosecutors office to the Police Review Board

and he's completely ignored it. The review board, for some strange reasons, is simply rubber, stamped it as insufficient evidence like. Are you kidding me However, the other survivors who did not report their attacks in some cases so years later after the bodies were discovered, they receive swift indictments. Why is that? They simply answer is because there's no police liability there, whereas over these case she did report it and here's another thing fast into it to this story. I don't know if I'm getting it in myself or if he had intended raise this question, but one active so with signature, moves with practically all of its victims. In addition to that, what part of this regulation he would say, take off your clothes back, I knew that I really got my interest in a second signature. Action went to take their jury yeah. I'm thinking, ok! Well, he knows he's going to kill her knees, Lee

your body behind her course behind it, sending abandoned house, take her personal face, take her valuables and perhaps sell them or pond. Little did I know that will become his trophies of his actions, exactly and in another office by the neighbor Robert to burn it. He published a book in October, two thousand and twelve. I believe on. The Cleveland translate is shocking. True story: the treatment. Could the cleaners trainers clean spring there an inside his publication? He has a photograph taken by the corner of some of the jury they retrieve them. Anthony cell was home from his bedroom doors to be exact, an long behold. This had to be another miracle blessing long behold for these clusters. Two thousand and six jury. Her watch in her ring in this particular photograph is right among

The pier ave dead victims, photograph. The pier Ave thickens there tide line is from June of two thousand and seven to the fall of two thousand and nine there's only one explanation as to why for nieces, gray, white and her ring is inside that Photograph Anthony so well, the emerging Kleeman stranger was the one that Lord and Forster in and that abandoned house- and he took her jury and when he and I crossed paths- and I looked at and I received it very bad by then image you from him. That would explain to me why he's caring Find him ideas that I bought her offer her a year earlier, he's caring on his person, he's taking it home with him and her jury, probably with the first at least it.

His bottom drawer and he started to add more jury to it at see in attack more victims. And with heart rate outfits, I'm no. Yeah, I was gonna, say what's really on heart, wrenching and disappointing this, all those overwhelming facts and evidence in the photograph her wearing the watch before it was taken? This is Vince admitted typical reason: police department to this task, I'm in it and press their own menu. All new beads they're supposed to follow up on it. Furthermore, according to Ohio Constitution is Bill of rights. Section. Ten eight is a section called the rights of victims of crime. It clearly says that the basic uh,

right well supposed to have access to any information that would help solve their crying. That's the law, the constitution there forcing them in office, says no US citizen, Shelby, deprived of their property or be denied due process. Well, I've approached the corners numerous times. Do: email phone communication But the sex crimes unit is trying to have discredit everything. I've said so. Instead, Upholding rule of law honoring protected her right, they're, not cooperating, so we're trying to go on to other legal means to get hurt. You have to think well you because at the mention The other survivors simply provided eyewitness testimony very No DNA, as a matter fact Ohio versus sell. Well,

There was no dna on any of the eleven remains. It was simply circumstantial evidence and Bernie's cross. Case as I just I'm enumerated the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence that implicate Anthony so after attacker and he shipped by law, be indicted for attacker on June 18th. Two thousand and six. What happens in your book, as you write, is that there are many, as you fight for, to put this all together to be able to put photo in front of her needs to get vernice in a in. In the certain kind of physical and psychological shape as you let her heal at your home, and you encourage her to address this addiction that is gripping her I finished, put her in this almost got her killed and

well. It has a grip on her. You do get some cooperate and from some people, you do get empathy and seems like understanding from some people an I could say. I understand, and I applaud you, that you went everywhere. You possibly could implored peep will everywhere and you include is that the media, the media contacts that seemed to be? You talked about the plain dealer being very good about this story, and your version and cooperating with you and Bernice and telling that story so tell us some of the things that seem to be optimistic, an were in your favor and then the things that seem to be that this were dashed hopes after promises of progress and even promises of taking this to the grand jury.

There was a plaintiff reported that did in MM. We have to keep in mind that at this point this uh for two thousand and eleven, oh hi, Ours is so well that trial was a big buds in a suit. Cleveland and nationally. So I had republished a preview copy and apparently it must have caught the attention of. I reported the client dealer and he did request it in it. Yet and Download book and he fascinated by some of this content. Ann. Be detected. As I recall who had charge of a case, he was promoted to sergeant in two thousand and eight. So his assistance took over the case, and so as I was pretty much doing my own investigation playing Sherlock Holmes.

I begin to connect the dots and then I also realize that I'm an eyewitness because he across that and he he surgery. If any corners you know have a physical connection is so and only that the sketch at this point in time during one slash two years have passed so pretty much. Everybody is with gardening boxes sketch, but like I did a digital lineup and you can clearly see there's a resemblance between this sketch anatomy cell was folded photograph with the except the artist drawing too much here, but that's ok, the forensic artist son has never seen. I miss you so well, and will be him African American, maybe just assumed that he wore and after I don't know, but the physical features are there. They resumed this is there the circumstantial evidence is there they have a cord that would use a strangle. Her. The very first of the eleven Impure Ave victims

as I shared with the detective I said, do you know that the very first one was Crystal Dozier she disappeared? I we are active, are nice and she was found two one slash two years later in Anthony Solace Backyard, but it's. Do you know where she lived. There is a very interesting think between her, the very first one ever any scratcher. I said that I think it their band. How safe are. These questions was lured to within a six thousand nine hundred. It's an active Jeff. If you, the doctor away, is where crystal though she lived, and I said to you I think that's a random coincidence course not Anthony so well came down to the Garden Valley Estates area as dress rehearsal. This is the fact that most people don't know that was dress rehearsal. Before or he start luring the eleven women to his home and killing him national parties, the inside his home or any

in the backyard it started, backyard, I believe, with five and six bodies. But after so ran out of room, so we start stashing it inside his home. Going back to your question, the rail. I think we thought we had after. I got the new station involved, they questioned her and he said: do it seems like Mister Newton British Archer has credible evidence that her case could have prevented that tragedy Ann. The detector had talked it over with it, then director of the Special Bureau of Investigation, and he gave the detective instru for her to bring her knees in for a line up, and she said which I have, I believe, chapter twelve of the book. Our conversation word for word, there's a transcript and she said that I'm on furlough, but

when I get back, I'm gonna have her knees. Do a line up with horse with include mister, so walk, and she was confident that furnace will pick out so well and that the case will go before a grand jury now, Sir, Eunice this after at that point, I think it's about five years. At that point we were excited. We felt itself. Things will go well, but somewhere else, while this exactly who now had charge the case was away, say something completely different to the media. He told the media that Miss Crutcher was mistaken. That science has cleared mister so well from the two thousand and six case And that uh. When we basically came in later that month, there was no line up and it was pretty much telling in this culture that until we had dna it, I think it's kind of strange within and save knowing full well that the trial was not about DNA

it was about aggravating circumstances that get after the silver convicted, not dna. So Someone took it in a different direction and she actually said to me someone of a higher pay grade. It stands up in different than me and that other that that someone could only be the original lead detective over these case, he's now has received a couple promotions within the unit. Certainly it would be a conflict of interest if it was known, he made a critical mistake and number one national member in his car trick a registered recently registered sex offender. At that point, it was just nine months in. And he lived less than three miles away: pussy fisted description of the sketchy provided and had they went to his home, they would have.

I heard you were there. The case would have been solved in June of two thousand and six plus I woulda came forward and say yes, I crossed paths with him. I mean eyewitness keyboard. The number four feet. Eastbound buys Asta meant, you had a jury and, furthermore, the lacerations here's another thing: that's fine. Thing about that trial. Patrolman Charles Lucky arrested so well with the back pain inside that that backpack one of the items were a box cutter that explains the source of the lacerations eraser sharp cuts over nieces had in fact They would have had had this case busted wide open, had there been more thorough investigation, and this is another

why I really want to get this case out, so they police officers detectives when they haven't in cases. I know DNA specially comes to trial. They pretty much slam dunk But any event, if you don't have dna, then there has to be a thorough investigation, especially If the community at large lines are at stake, I get the distinct impression when They roll the dice and it didn't get a match in Codis and they simply told us an unknown profile, not encoded it's if it be held in advance until I hit in Codis what the exact works. Well, that doesn't sound like an investigation and, furthermore you're pretty much enabling this done

This time zone attack to give him a pass to continue the at large until the next person gets attacked, and unfortunately, this particular Hanis attacker repeated his attack over and over and over again to the tune up eleven. Bodies found in and outside of town, and I really believe that we need to provide with the reason why Avenue so would change its strategy. He would not be killed here. I mean think about had it with you with that fifteen hours of sixty. Here every gain consciousness the next morning at nine pm, so he changed his strategy. Instead of learners and abandoned house, she lured to his home killbear them in his backyard. That way, you make sure they don't regain consciousness and wander off. We are going to talk about another.

Fascinating aspect of this another person: did you end up going from the same area, which is Mag Daliah roulette heard her name lucky but first I'm going to talk about blue apron Lou, paper is the number one fresh ingredient and recipe delivery service in the country and Blue apron's mission is to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone. Ah in blue apron achieves this by supporting a more sustainable food system setting the highest standards for ingredients and building a community of home chefs. Blue apron's established partnerships with over one hundred and fifty local farms, fisheries and ranchers across the United States and as a result, seafood is more sustainably beef, chicken and pork come responsibly raised animals and all produce is sourced from farms that practice regenerative farming.

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You will love how good it feels and tastes to create incredible home, cooked meals with blue apron. So don't wait. That's blueapron dot com, slash, murder, blue apron, a better way to cook. Now I just introduced to our audience another. Fascinating aspect of this story. Tell us about lucky. Roulette Magdalia roulette And tell us how you were involved in this part of the. Vesti Gation as well, and just tell us about this incredible aspect. Sure actually nightly are lucky lucky with your nickname glad she was a mutual acquaintance of Britney tonight. I actually meant negatively on a few weeks before I met Bernice,

But at that member needs, I really we begin this truck up, crank up a romantic on involvement and so maybe LE away- and I just became casual friends. However August of two thousand and five, every was reported that She her body was found. Her new body was found on the train tracks, which was nearly hit by a train operator off of E 79th ST and yet, if you recognize that street again, that's the same street different, her attacker. Oh he 79th street. Now, unfortunately, her new body was also beaten and had lacerations and two weeks later. Bernice kidneys are lucky to contour injuries so that she she died but with interesting, is she survived for two weeks? So certainly she was able to talk.

To her family and the authorities and provide provide a description of her attacker, but to this day her cases unsolved- and I do know because I said my personal acquaintance with her- she pretty much had the same profile as for these cruncher, I drug addicted email prone to arm elicitation in order to support that habit, but we're not here to pass judgment law enforcement at the assault cases and prevent a harm or threat to the community any and all also offer help in a very conventional way to victims, but, what's fascinating is This is August. Two thousand and five Anthony so well moved into Impure Ave, Junior, two thousand and five just a couple months earlier, There had been no attacks on the

in the area and Sally again that case- and I said ten months later, here. We are going to fit in a street. She meets her attacker and didn't he wore her to an abandoned house. Now what I find banter between Maglia and ready to work here, I'm at the mention with their injuries the injuries all about the head. In the face and again you have lacerations and then again the victim I nude, so as effect on the back cover before from two thousand and five to two thousand and six, you have two Coke when we started emerging in the other attempted murder and then a after are the eleven murders between two thousand and seven and two thousand and nine I'm thoroughly convinced. Had there been a more

do an engaged investigation with these two cold cases. The eleven murders would have never occured. And I'm pretty confident, I'm willing to bet the farm, the description that lucky gate in August, two thousand and five before she passed away. I will, it did farm that it matches Anthony soldiers, description well. You talk about the missing women, and you mentioned their names and we should- and we talked about Crystal Dozier, to show in a Culver in June, two Machado Long August, Michelle Mason, two thousand and eight Tonya Carmichael November, two thousand and eight Kim Smith January two thousand and nine Nancy Cobb April, two thousand and nine Amelda Hunter April, two thousand and nine Janice web two

June, two thousand and nine Salacia Fortson June, two thousand and nine Dan Turner September. Two thousand and nine. You talk about the trial it's been told before, but you have a different perspective. Tell us about some of this. What you write about about the trial itself? Uh! Well, certainly it it was an emotional trout to have that many families who lost loved ones and is we any? We can't begin to put into words the they had to range in that courtroom and the great

it actually so well when the door, the impact, they might think. I so what we're after him, not even willing to look at the victim's family and given that a fraction of express in the air there are heartbreaking how much he shattered in the store their lives. I, thirty. My heart goes out to them because I now know put the amount of research that I've done and, of course, being acquainted with her nieces cases. Inside and out that that human LAS could have been prevented. Have there been any more, I say, engaged and compassion to the fact that how do you suspend this case you know looking at the extended release- injuries, this particular cell- that is still out there. He still at large.

Sentence that you didn't get a hidden coldest to that? Tells you that ok and he's an interesting twist for nieces break it. She told her. She had consensual sex just hours before So those profiles don't belong. I will have no relevance to the attack, but somehow the set time unit, which, as far as I'm concerned to hide their missteps in their failures, has gone so far as to say well, your attacker, uh is still at large. Which is ridiculous, given the fact that it's been over ten years. Well, you look they hated nature. Her attack, you can tell this person, has an appetite for violence. He had to just disappeared off the face of the earth. Any evidence of that is the Imperial Ave tragedy. Now I looked at that trial just to see if I could really make some correlation between those two thousand and seven to two thousand and nine attacks, and

The evidence is there particularly patrolman Charles signs Lucky often Charles Lucky, as I mentioned earlier, the box cutter. Here you have a strangler, but then he's caring, a box cutter that has to be the source of the last of racing with scratcher, but then it with another witness for the state that lived with happy so well. His live in girlfriend Lewis Frasier, who is actually the mayor's nice Ann. She testified that there were times when Mister soul will come home, we're very suspicious looking wounds yeah. I remember specifically, the Dennis system prosecuted ask Lori Fraser on the witness stand about what time about. When did you begin to notice these signs wounds on Mister so well

and what she said sent chills up my spine. I had that in the book as well And all at my website cdnew dot com. She clearly specified that CS begin, We notice those wounds and two thousand and six well. The discrepancy is the Imperial Ave, try We started with Lori Frazier occured in June of two thousand and seven goes, which was so Anthony. Sowell said that he got those comes from somebody inside their band in house who grabbed him right away that that sufficient evidence to you. In a grand jury, properties, purchase signed cold case. When he told Lori Frazier what not to worry. I killed your ass. The person who grew

without an abandoned house that right there has the red correlation to release two thousand and six Attacked inside him abandoned house, it has no relevance whatsoever to the impure avenues, murders. And I brought that up to the processing prosecutor as well the sex crimes unit, any officer, professional standard and again they've represented this insufficient evidence. But have to say the earlier: the jury did research decision now, space to find dna, but according to the tree, that's the core trance squared aggravating circumstances, and I quote far outweigh the mitigating factors beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, there's a overwhelming abundance of aggravating circumstances ever in these case. And I can say you could actually look at that Ohio versus what's wrong and in the case of

the office directing officer an Lori phrases, statements that has a direct connection restart this case and that the inferior ave murders and that needs go before a grand jury and it was complete we change the narative for what the city and the world knows about the cleaning strangler and I believe that's the thing- that's what the sex crime unit will find that the conflict of interest, but the last along she is entitled to yes, isn't closure, an these facts and evidence that I'm sharing with you in your listeners need to go before a grand jury and that's what we're pushing for it because, after all, there's been a lot of time, gosh it in a national discourse about police reform and a grin a deficit as long as their cases like mine out and I'm sure it probably out of them out there,

that are been silenced. Having the given the light of day, it undermines our confidence in our trust. In the system. You can't just have press conferences and at work we're doing the best we can and things are looking better and things are doing well when citizens and residents actually knows the truth. These are just pr spends. This is just feel good messages that you're feeding to the public, whereas in reality we know the status quo prevails and when their cases that are still a conflict of interests or biased toward protecting officers misconduct, then no. We can't have competence, interest, we're going to respect. I'm sorry, hello, you still there! Yes, absolutely now! So for

just have confidence interest. All we're asking for is accountability and integrity. The fact that the evidence that there she's entitled to Jesses enclosure an in addition to the circumstances around her case that officer as well. There's Lori Frazier statements, which now is public record in their core trance, cared sitting court transcripts, have a great bearing on her case that person that, after the silver said that well, I killed their ass. That attack the inside of an abandoned house, definite other than Bernie structure. Yet not another victim and another abandoned house. That cuz case is just a forgotten cold case. You make a good case for them, trying to avoid liability. We've seen that and a few cases, especially recently when you look at the price, should you said that the

This investigation was seven hundred thousand dollars to the county and the probably not everything included. If you think, maybe it's that did she wasn't included on eleven of initially that the photo her initially not being at the flying Anthony's was there. A time when she MIS identified a photo of Anthony so well. Well. As far as the investigation goes, she provided a sketch to the forensic artist As I said earlier, I did show her at Japanese, with they discovered the parties at his home. With a wanted man, but this is two one slash: two years later, the attack occured in June in two thousand and six.

He was a wanted man as of October 31st, two thousand and nine in the two and a half years later. So she can place him from the the photograph that they had in the front page of the plain dealer. But if we back up as of September, two thousand and five, the court psychiatric clinic, Even though the evaluation was way off the mark, when he said it was a sixty six percent chance to re offend at evaluation with playoff mark. They still had his photograph his address on record because, after all, he's now a racist sex offender, and that can be so well knows that so the sex crimes unit. They also had to know that- and I to this day, do not understand why they did not- and let me repeat, they did not show Verneys Karcher Anthony, so walls registered sex offender photographs from September two

Seventy five right I found in earlier photograph before he lost the weight before he lost forty pounds and right away. She made the connection and it my understanding from reading the two to other authors that did they. Story on the Anthony so well, they also. Describe how the opposite also had the same problem between the photograph, they had on record and the man standing before them, because he had lost a substantial amount of weight anyone with forty pounds. They're gonna look physically different, but once again I read it back to twenty. Eight. All of his information is in a database. They had access to it, which often means that that photograph. If this is a matter of record, this is the tax crime unit. Why do you why they did not show her a photograph?

with a serious, critical misstep and given the fact that he's new to the area, that's one thing for any scratches sit now she's nearly a twenty year resident of Garden Valley, and this is where good detective work comes in, so that is practically after living in that area for nearly twenty years even though practically everyone in the area all the locals. She reported I've never seen this guy before that, should have tipped him off he's new to the area. She also said he's on foot, so he would he within walking distance of zero to five mile radius and the fact that this was a sexual assault, I see the left and right away, let's check our razor sex offenders with in three to five miles and who fest the discretion of african american male with a mustache and small facial beard, ' That would have lead in the acting itself, who had just moved in June of two

One five in the area six feet tall must add facial beard, britches, sex offender, strangler, carries a box cutter, an he may have a jury which, after they at issue a warning went to his house. He would have found it rated that route only her jury and not the later eleven women of impure avenues during absolutely. Now, throughout this over, you mentioning state grant throughout this, you stay, solidly behind vernice creature, and you say that then really the trials and tribulations that she goes through. Trying to kick this addiction. She had some hurdles as well. As you talk about is some incarceration in there, even though she is is, is progressing in her treatment.

Incredibly and then you show the very success and the chain and the the difference that your help and and her conviction to try to get kick. This addiction, finally, is at least is pays off. And you describe that when she goes to the police. You finally set up that meeting. That seems optimistic youth that there is going to this may lead to the grand jury that and you- They tell her that the DNA is not important or partly is the important thing like you say this fight them not having any of that at the trial, and this is a Super emotional set back for vernice at that time. I know we're going backwards, but that was a big set back for nice. She comes up there, crying she's, hysterical, that's a big set back and it's a set back for you as well, be 'cause they've lead you along, it seems for affair,

the time with this seven day. Yes, they have yes, certainly for her hi man with her. She thought he was going to have to close your as if it was finally within her in with within our reach and to tell someone you're going to have a lineup and we're confident you're going to pick out this aspect that you identified. And this is going to a grand jury and, of course, Grangeri means indictment. But, like I said, this is now the assistant detector who's taking over the case, the lead attacked it has going on to receive multiple promotions. So He if it doing well within a unit an he's, very ambitious moving up in the ranks? This is

last thing he wants to be known or associated with that. Actually you, your failures and missteps. Your lack of, Communication and a thorough investigation is what enabled the Cleveland strangler he doesn't. I've got to be associated with him, so she said to be point blank, and I really didn't grasp it at the time and she said it to me. Someone of a higher pay grade is saying something different to me, but if I had this information several years ago,. She will be up in XF tears in the courtroom with the other victims by season with the other survivors. Rather so now it becomes a matter of politics, I think that this is another reason why I wrote the book and why I want to get this door because it really serves as a cautionary tale. When you have miss that such as this a result in a community tragedy, and now the victim comes forward.

Now we get a real test: the real test of integrity and accountability, and trust and confidence in our law enforcement. In our criminal justice system I mean, let's be real prosecutors, assisted process. Here's an detectors in the police, they have a working relationship, their colleagues in order to build cases against defend, So now, if your colleagues who you have a close knit relationship with, if they have, if there being accused of some sort of misconduct, what do you do. Do you stand up for the victim and their rights, or do you side with this long standing colleague, you have a working relationship with that's the narrative that would have changed having these clusters case been brought into the courtroom, and it's

It can be, and until we you actually I'm sorry, go ahead, no. I was just going to say until we actually allow cases like this to receive the light of day an receive the proper justice and closure. Then we really not being genuine about police reforms and criminal justice reforms. I'm, in this case cold case really speaks to an abuse of power and authority. When I approached the assistant prosecutors. And I said to him- I've told about the facts and evidence of these case after we receive such a very heart breaking disappointment when we left the Kronstadt unit, he actually told me: well, we had to retrieve her break it and you're going to have to. Sixty days until we get the results. Now little did, I know.

He already had the two survivors- and I mentioned earlier- who reported their attack, find, MRS, so what, after the buttons will discover it and in one case like a year and a half, so that really isn't a prerequisite in order to get an indictment He knew that, but he did tell me that. So this leads me to think that well, what's the difference between furnaces of survivors and these other two that receive indictment within days and who has no break it. My neither one was raped by Anthony, sell well, but because she reported a year and a here at eight months later, certainly there's no rape kit, so he's the charge for felonious assault, attempted murder and kidnapping. They could do the same with Bernice, but the big big difference between Bernie Survivor and the other two survivors

As I say, the earlier no police liability, I find it very difficult to accept the fact that I sent in a police complaint, but the part that didn't prosecutor gives the same detective: a prestigious law enforcement of the year award. Now I committed complaint a very detailed complaint about. Pretty much obstruction of justice. A cover up properties left a sex crime unit promise. One thing I line up grand jury and she get something completely different, and that complaint, which is just virtually dismissed, But then the prosecutor turns around a short time later and they're. Saying detective received a prestigious law enforcement at a year award. How could I be.

He pretty much contradict in glowing words that she had her cases with such compassion and empathy and with, call Jenny and some of the other an outstanding and glowing words, but my complaint specifically detailed completely the opposite, based upon the experience that we had so again, You can have the community stand one thing, and yet law enforcement and their partners, the prosecutors, are sent something entirely different. You write in your book that the police told the families of the eleven reported missing women, or at least some of them that you spoke with the new. Have this report in your book. They said: don't worry Your love one she'll return in a few days after getting high, go back home, yeah

to lend some credibility to your liability in that very much like the Dahmer. Days. People wanted to know how that many people could missing, and then they did their investigation with this as well. You talk about that. The community demanded answers and things were supposed to change, and that's why sex crime unit was supposed to be in it. So at least that's what was reported. There was going to be a dramatic change in the way things the way: rape victim statements. Handled and missing persons cases were handled, it was supposed to be a change. Wasn't there hi? Yes, american And they come out, I believe, with March two thousand and eleven with a nine hundred page reforms and changes, and I do believe that going forward.

They probably have implemented a lot of those changes that all because the press has reported that they are still in progress, is done, trying to make those nets. Their changes be more sensitive to uh the family members and to take them seriously plus. We are also under the Us Department of Justice Consent decree as of May fifteen, two thousand and fifteen, which also required dramatic changes in how they approach missing persons cases. But. What's unique about her knees case. Is it called back for the if you're having a tragedy and with them years it would go on it. The card like a dedicated, spend it. So this is one of those situations where, This is coming back to haunt them and they don't want it to and as far as I'm concerned, this cold case actually put

they clearly confit decree and America mission for missing persons in the sense crimes, investigation to the test. And it's a very challenging one for them. I'll admit that like, It brings to light that these would fit the mistakes that you made before you had these revisions and reforms, but be that as it may, It did not her lawfully what she's entitled to justice and closure. Yes, it is probably painful and, like I said you have to recognize to this part Claire detected elite detected, I mean, if you look at where he is now compared to where he wasn't. Two thousand and six he's had a rapid rise, but then the police division from ordinary detectives. Now, he is over the special bureau Investigations Investigation, which includes multiple Ann.

Debate is acting up, which includes the tech crime unit. So certainly he doesn't want this time. Why do you want me with its early career right now right? Do we gotta? Do we get given to personal preference, career tension, a war or, that rule of law for them and that's what it comes down to it. That's what the narratives about about this cold case. You chronicle the entire fight that you have, and it's a long one, and you also taco the case of Vanessa gay tell us about Vanessa gave the similarities an why you thought her case sounded familiar And why she wasn't in, but in any of this, what were the circumstances that excluded Vanessa, gay from

this. Investigation have seen uh, I'm not sure get it right. Survival Vanessa gave w survivor attacked by Anthony Soul in April starting at eight right, so she she was. She was. She was before then Judge Timothy Mcginty in February, two thousand and ten for probation violation and there she sees the opportunity to express that she was attacked by Anthony Cell Wall in April of two thousand and eight now And I may, between Bin, at the gate and bring these parties, it really is yeah. It's interesting and it's also mind boggling one within days, because the Dan Judge, Timothy Mcginty recommendation to Dan Prosecutor, William anything she would be.

Now when you look at the fact that she called the police station in April two thousand and eighteen attacked by so at his own. They recommended- She come in and make an official police report, but he was afk way to do it because I think she had some previous a jail charges are offensive. She was afraid to come forward and she didn't until I a year and eight months later, when she was before then Judge Timothy Mcginty now what's fascinating to me is why did he believe her without any physical evidence? And why did she received at switch The indictment I get back and if so, what they did not include right, although he right there and if it earlier, fifty indictments were for a long talk, attempted murder and kidnapping,

But this is simply based on her eyewitness testimony and she served as a witness for the state now for these guys. Has an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence, but they refused to hear from her and give her the same. Jesse's enclosure- and I said the only reason things out right away, is Vanessa. Gay had not reported to the police are need. Scratcher did I see so Vanessa Gay in her situation, sure she can see it. Because I she's really fantastic that I told the authorities- I handed him Anthony so well, but now that different with Gladys wait, who was attacked December, two thousand native recalls.

She and happy. So we are both now actively station. But because it's arranged with it and with a straight release within two days, and he still was released and it really don't believe her, although she had all the physical evidence, the scratches the evidence, other bruises, and so I think so. Some some line that well. She was just some girl. With I think, having girlfriend woman, he met girlfriend they were having sex with these guys gotta hand, she stole something from him. That's the reason why he climbed out on a roof and drop drop to the ground, and so they released. But little did they know He already had five bodies in there that exact yard and he would go on it, kills six more, and so they called him, and I told her two thousand and nine.

So when you take a closer look at the survivors and that trial, you really see some serious discrepancies inconsistencies, double standards. And it discovered really undermines the process that, if prosecutors and the authorities, one is slant things or I wouldn't say slam put, perhaps too late the process. Where reduces their liability for their culpability, then they can do that. They have done that and it gives the appearance to the community. Ok, well We've done the right thing: we've got this man off the street one size, justice fits all. 'cause, I find it really. I ask that then prosecutor, we amazing, publicly said enemy in the correct there's, just no.

The way that the bodies at the appearance found on the pier admins are all the victims. There has to be some more pour out there well for a nice question is one: And if you recall in it in the book on August, twenty seventh, two thousand and twelve, I submitted a letter to prosecute a mate and in that letter I'd Imagine the challenges that I was having with a sex crime unit, even mention for nieces, detective finance. Now he is difficult few months earlier, given her that procedures flowing forth in the year award. Okay, be that as it may, but I miss it in that letter I said, and I quote, there's a possibility that Bernice crutches jewel it right of money if you're admitted victims do you know three weeks later, the middle of September.

I didn't know where prosecuted mason- I know his reservation- that even stepping down and their inter on prosecutor with typically begin The same gay who Mentioned they actually sell well attack Tehran. He believed there and he wrecked meant to her case too Dan prosecuted, we made sense it is this week with Maine a system of politics, and I don't know it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth sure what it lightly you talk about. Let me get this straight. You say none of the ligatures, not the belt electrical cords, the socks or strips of cloth. To strangle eleven women. That's true was it. This was not tested. Dna evidence.

I believe it was, but it only came back. The dna are the victims, and the thing was also true with her the core 'cause. They found the course once they located the abandoned house, they tested it. And it only yielded furnaces dna and, if anything, with with the, if you're having a great day, but although that is that that may be the case, the jury, with the open that Then, in the access of dna, the aggravating circumstances still pointed towards after insurance, and I find it also fascinating, although I communicated with the other assistant prosecutor, at that time. With Richard Bond back, he and I had an email, email communications for him to tell Maine. We have to run a dna test on they on there was you this ranger in her rape kit. Where, if you already knows, you have two survivors who serving as witness for the state. They have no dna confirmation,

We get there eyewitnesses way to say, excuse me, so why the inconsistency the one It's because these ladies didn't come forward at the time of the attack, and this wasn't a sometime later and again. This removes any pull probability, reliability. And I say this rain is generated contact. Is there any talk? I mean you do write about it in the book. But it would seem that, just with my, experience, and I think another other couple of peoples experience that they would Sia, a journalist person writing a book, someone intimately involved with vernice creature, as have a conflict of interest or having other motivations that. They would either mistrust or just try to stay far away from.

Thinking that that all media acts the same or anyone motivated with the book would act the same, despite your logical reason, for being involved with this was there any again they didn't mention it too. I didn't read in the book that they mentioned that two specific specifically, but did you feel any of that? Why in encountering these people that they were they were. Trying to to please or two Do you believe that there were cooperative in that? There might be some hope in having a you achieve what you were demanding. But it it seemed like they didn't appreciate. What they might think is your interference in this

I I think I initially well when I came forward, would be insured for Mason Webber needs. Is they detected a ticket charge of the case being the fact that she, what do you know, she's a woman? And if we see really sympathize? if it were nice and she was on board, like I said she had talked with someone outside the unit who is a director, Anne and the plan was were raised to come in to do a line up and she was confident that it go before a grand jury. But after Cleaver nineteen NEWS aired a story.

I really believe that someone else, which was probably her originally detected, who now, like I said, is received a couple of promotion. I think the captain at that time it's a complex adventures for him, so he pretty much steered it in a different direction. He pretty much discredited. The arts are account, he won't even going so far as we are concerned, to engage and slander He told another author that my Ok, no merit, and that was really special with saying, was not true. Well, So but at that time we had discovered the jury yet because those particular office had probably up until the following year- the fault in the next year, and so when I found it when I came across the Cornets Photograph and I saw her jewelry I'm on the empirical evidence. There we had it and with Bethany two is the cheap, the darji properly state me

Letter and in part he said until we actually have physical evidence linking the tour down, then the case will go before a prosecutor work that, following year, we did get that physical, the jury, which I had thought he probably had sold or gave away or something he actually collected it, and it was there. But I if it really comes down to. I believe in conflict of interest because it raises the question lead promoted. While the body count.

His vertical motions, his starting with two thousand and eight. The imperial Ave murder started in two thousand and seven Chrysler Dodge a actually a neighbor over the scratcher, who wasn't discovered that two one slash two years later, so the body count was increasing and simultaneously he was moving up the ranks within the end unit, so that presents a bit of crime authority issue for them. But again I emphasize take the politics out of it, for niece was beat within inches of her life into the death door by law and morally speed,

she's entitled at a brutally beaten, great survivor, jacket, enclosure, the other, the barbecue, given that we'll get a fraction in comparison to them on it back to evident. In her case, they were giving Jeff and close your season tied into that as well. You wrote Anthony Sowell in prison in twenty twelve. What was yet tell us about that? How productive was that? What To learn from the correspondence tell us about his reaction to. Contacting him that that was a very weird, an unusual experience. I that was an act of desperation, because I was getting nowhere with the prosecutor's office and the sex crimes unit. So I was hoping that hoping against hope that. He would have a change of mind and heart and will be

They come forward about this particular attack that he knows he was. He was never charged for And I do believe initially, he did kind of slip up an covertly give me a confessional admission to his involvement. What is June eighteen in two thousand and six attack, because he said to me when there are opening on communications by web praise the email, Mister Newton, your fishing and Eric and LISA me and you're, not very good at it. I don't need you, you need me sign death row so well have a nice day, and I find that concern that tangible evidence for graduated to consider Why is a convicted serial killer telling me or telling this man after he specifically said where,

involved with this June eighteen, two thousand and six attacks inside this abandoned house within the six thousand nine hundred bucks. Avenue and for him to hear that response he Eric Lee, said I know. What's what you're after I don't need you You need Maine and in another correspond. He said to me in so many words that uh until I hear or see something that interested me, I'm just not going to give it to you. Now I did grant you remember, I'm sure, can read between the lines and say this arogant self uh. Their self granddaughters graduation man knows he did this, but because he still has this maniac Ackles, control and manipulation he still wants to control his victims, while he's in prison on death row.

But he's letting me know in so many words? I know what you're after you need Maine, I don't need you. And in directly, as far as I concern, that is a covert confession to his involvement to his attack on. This question and then that also matches up with, as I said earlier, with Lori Fraser, she did say in that trial. He told me the wounds, which were probably defensive, wounds from uh. His big thing that he's attacking is trying to fight him off. He did say I was inside an abandoned house. I had a physical exchange with someone now

Don't worry, I killed their ass in the quote. You put all of these pieces of the puzzle together, you have Anthony so well from this sketch the jewelry thieves arrested with a box cutter, Lori Frazier statement. His comment that he made in our present email exchange, plus my eyewitness account I know 'cause. I looked at him but two to three minutes before he boarded her, but I wasn't there to test it, but I was just simply sitting there. Yeah. It was at the intersection. I was waiting for friends to resurface. I know that with him, so you take all of this in its totality. You have a case and as far as necessary, it's even stronger. It's much more airtight in solid than the other survivors.

Yes, there's no dna here, but again there was no dna on the remains of eleven in period newline victims, because their bodies are so badly decomposed and fibers. They didn't have to grab it and be there, but the jury looked at the facts and the evidence and they came to the right conclusion. I'm sure if our new prosecutor, Michael O'Malley, who gave the campaign promises that he would restore integrity, trust and any, officer, Calhoun, county prosecutors office- is the accident. His campaign promise and took an honest look at the body of evidence that he can only come to one conclusion Anthony saw what was her attacker. He should be indicted, and as a matter fact, I sent him a copy of the publication so He had it all. He had to be for him.

Now you our have tried to reach out to all kinds of people with this to the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Ohio and, like you say, you're still, continuing and still optimistic to bring. Get ready her justice. This is an incredible story. What about vernice? What's how she doing? What's her status today, Ann. It could be better if this is really taking its toll on her, because I have a seat. He had reached the box, promises that didn't pan out and he was already prone to depression. We

just with which is the reason for the self medication through substance abuse. So the fact that This is drawing out so long and is taken some horrific twist interns. It had to be good for her her psyche as well as, about her addiction. I've had to deal with the relax, getting it back into on the program uh but be that as it may, she still wants and we do not be mistaken. She still wants justice and closure. She wants to be able to stand in that courtroom and expressed to mister so well, the impact that this living nightmare has had on her life and as far as I'm concerned, this is bigger, and she and I, and we both understand that you know there's prob The other victims out there they have going through, Seymour Theoni, I mean I have to be the type of

he worked on the if you're avenue murders. But it's not a big fan who are finding it difficult trying to work within a set them to get the jacket in the closing date is our and so I'm hoping that it would also inspire others when they read the account to keep fighting. Yes, I've turn away program, practically all the procedures, civil rights attorneys in Cleveland. I do have another round agency looking into if you are crime, victims, justice Center, looking looking very promising that they're going to pursue, pursue it on her behalf. And I also keeping the option open to a pro the NAACP again now that we have new evidence right again. I really I want to see better relations between the police, and a community and one way to do. It is to make sure that there is integrity and how these cases are processed come

get out with press conferences sand as well. We have reforms and we've changed. This we've modified this. We when you consent decree in place, that's all finding good, but we need to make sure that it's implement that is given real world application so that when people, ordinary people like ourselves, come in, we should now have to have a high powered law Aren't behind x or a long standing civil rights institutions to get justice and closure. The prosecutor is the people's attorney. There needs to be consistency. If you tell these the virus ware TD, not require, then why do turn around required from her from victims and which are the law the put first and foremost over some detective foremost police officers. Detective

here? Our reputation and I think that's where the tough call is for officials once again if you really want do. They have the integrity community, confidence in the trunk in law enforcement and criminal just assistant. You have to make those tough calls. Otherwise, you have it where we are now. The relations are very strange. It is a cautionary tale and I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about my sisters, keeper that, Cleveland serial killer untold story? Thank you. How much Cd Newton? What is the website for people to look at the and other information and may be able to contact you or make comments, tell us Thank parliament, Indian. I appreciate you asking Website is cd cats, dogs, Newton in Ewto, n dot, com.

I'm also on social media, twitter and Instagram. I can be reached at Mister Cd Newton that Mr Period, Cd Newton Instagram, and whether you can follow me. There uh. Within a couple of days, I'm making make a special offer for you lip. It will be able to download a free copy that will be just for couple days. So that they can become engaged in the story and perhaps one to read. Stamina varies, accounts and take the story again. Presence of directly by alkaline encourage your listeners if you're convinced based dip on the banks in evidence that I've mentioned and, of course, after reviewing at my website in person the book, and you would like to help us in our pursuit with Jefferson Closure

You can call prosecutor Michael O'Malley at this number, twenty one quintillion six hundred and forty four quadrillion three hundred and seventy eight trillion two billion one hundred and sixty four million four hundred and thirty seven thousand eight hundred and simply say justice enclosure for release, I want to thank you very much Cd Newton, best of luck and congratulations on an incredible book and a very, very, very noble cause. I want to thank you very much. You have a great evening. Thank you, Dan goodnight. You too, thank you very much. Goodnight right.

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