You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crying history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker did he kill every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and other than ask you get evening, this psychological crime thriller. Excess inside the mind of a unique female serial killer, a prostitute who murdered seven adult men, a case with which the author was intimately involved,

The issues raised by this high profile criminal case remain unresolved. To this day. Women even prostitute earned the right to self defence in theory, but in practice the story is more complicated, this global challenge. Everything you ever thought about: prostitute serial killers and justice in America aiding worn. Is a damage- saw a genuine and outlaw a symbol of women's rage, a symbol of what can happen. The severely abuse children and of how our justice system fails. Women Jostlers involvement with a serial killer has haunted ever since she speaks an alien warn us whose voice as well as in IRAN, and delivers an incisive, original and dramatic portrait of Cognitive Lee impaired. traumatized an alcoholic woman who ensured so

Japan and her short life when she had had enough, the results were deadly. This is a point that sometimes humorous. Never before told behind the scenes. Tail worn. Also story is handled with great sensitivity, but also with realistic detachment by chancellor, as she probes the coming moment. The telling phrase was worn or suffering from post traumatic stress after a life lived on the killing fields, where she also borne evil. So many prostitutes have been torture murdered by Sir your killers, how did warn us once Bray become a predator requiem for female serial killer will also haunt you? They won't? Let you put it down

take a walk in the wild side. The ghost of alien warn us beckons. The book the were featuring a ceiling is requiem for a female serial killer, with my special gesture and less than other Philip Chancellor welcome to the programme, and thank you so much for this interview, Philip Phyllis Chestnut. It is my pleasure to be with you. Thank you. So much were joining on us to talk about you're requiem for a serial killer. Now you talk about the opening your book Florida. Ninety ninety. in a report to women are being sought. Shooting death of eight to twelve middle aged men.

Go to the Destin Florida highways, I suspect number one: a white female five foot, ten blonde hair suspect number two white female five foot, four to five foot, six heavy build and short brown, hair and they're armed and dangerous, and possibly the nation's first serial killers, and it was a warning put out two men traveling off highway, one hundred and seventy five, I seventy five. All of these men were strangers, not husband's, not intimate you soon after a lien is arrested. Three, a Carol worn out called you a few months after she was arrested. Tell us about that conversation. What was said in that short amount of time. Well, First, when I first heard the announcement, I thought it was a joke. It was impossible

then, when she was captured, eyesore well, ok and what drew me in was the hope, the vision that we could present to a jury a true of prostitution in America and globally, which is the most extreme form of violence towards women, and it's not understood that way. So, when She called me for the first time and is a back story to how I arrange that I knew only have a few seconds to get her attention. So I said Lee I read: percent of feminist government in exile. We know that you ve been captured and we'd like to help and she whispered it Falcon out, you're the women with bright. I said yes, and then she said. Tell the women out there that I'm innocent

from that men hate, oh god, I was raped and I defended myself she referred to the known, Mean Gerald Stay, no had been doing prostitutes, mainly black cocaine, attic prostitute all over forward. It was never never called for a long time. She knew, without this. The corpses. Littering the highways war. women not of men, so what she did ultimately as a first, the you said already, she was meant to be. And she became This time out, someone who killed in self defense. I really believe that thereafter something

changed? She became a predator. So that's how it began now give out in your your background, at this time and position at this time when you're talking dealing on the telephone. What is your background? You feminist activist background. Tell us about that. Well, for since the late nineteenth sixties, I've been involved in all the issues as a scholar as professor and as an activist terms and violence against women, rape of incessant, woman battering pornography prostitution, and I don't think that way, changed a lot of consciousness, but we failed also took command. Our point of or abolition is point of view it either in the media or on campuses. So

I saw her. I didn't even think Is she a serial killer? Do you really want a mixed up with a serial killer? I only saw her Someone who been re to all her life paid to be raped, eventually hall, probably had organic brain syndrome and other cognitive, neurological impairments, every day of her life from the time she was quite young like maybe nine or ten, and I wish you all a shroud, monetizing and torture is experiences that she had and she was the for forward and the more dissociated for it. So I saw and heard the opportunity to put prostitution on Trial to put male violence and contempt for women who are prostitutes or who they view is if they are prostitutes on trial? I also wanted to have a job

we hear that women should have the right to kill, in self defence, but mainly don't they, this time, that by being killed in self defence. we achieved and gone to the police. There was a war that for her arrest, she was already a criminal by definition, because she was selling sex for money. The John DOE get arrested, they are not seen as criminals. So all this a little movement in that area, but not much really so what she's gone. She had just go back to earning of our daily work. so to speak. So I didn't even contemplate If serial killer, if so, what kind- and it took me years- Your profile, the kind of you very unique

he'll kill her that she is. When did you get to when the decision come to be able to try to defend her with this rapes of the fence? How much information did you have before you, endeavoured to take upon this project. Well, I had already written I had written about three. This is in America from them. eighteen, seventy seven, which women mainly men of color killed in self defence because they were raped or in one instance to avoid being raped, and there case law that I wanted Florida public defenders to consider because I thought it might apply, now. Of course he didn't get. a fair, a fish shake not in a life and not at all

first trial and not when she made First confession, because the video that confession, when her only goal was to rescue her lover. Who was the one? betrayed by taking a stand against her and the cops We said that up and I right about what they do. What it wants to show the fact that Lee that's what people call her the fact: kept referring to she killed in self defense. Sixteen times in that confession, the jury didn't get to hear that because somebody edited it out of the video The jury was shown. So that's just one of many many examples of too little justice for her. On the other hand,

and say well the public defenders through the case, because she was a hard clients. she curse like a sale as she cursed like all the men who were Johns in her life. form she ate it. for they will have friends or her boyfriend's, but some of them gave her advice, carry a gun. You know, in effect it you know, working honey you're in a war, so she said Carrying a gun which, did save her life that first time- and this is something that I talk to her at length, she would never ever reveal the details of each murder, I had to imagine it through her eyes, based on what I stood about what I had learned from top, to her and corresponding with her

and reading every piece of paper, legal and otherwise that I could find- and she was a very quick study, because he suddenly here she's hearing from a feminist who has other feminist, backing Arab, who want of Portugal regime like a dream team for her she started. Looking like a feminist, I was, I'm impressed and amazed. So I think that women who are prostituted Pretty much no had it say what they think. The customer wants to hear- and you to get to know what they're really thinking. so she was quite good at that and I will member at a certain point it I asked her, could you please he's right down. For me how many times you ve been raped and she did and then you she read it to me on the phone.

well. Our definition of rape was not my definition, and I've studied rate trauma syndrome and anyone whose way, He knows that some women they get raped once and change is a crush, is a bit of the soul for awhile, if not forever, even if they continue on with your life, so she had definition was when bunch of guys, probably on the young side tie you down, tie you up gang rape, you rob you threatened to kill. You beat you are, but then you live so she was giving me examples of this, and then she had another definition of being weight, which was, if you, sell the sex which is like getting, money for being raped, but the guy doesn't pay you that's another definition of rare

to her an avenue she got through. ten or fifteen, I said: are you stop now because its way off the church, although it totally go of any prostitutes, wife and you just now, I can well, when it's ok, it doesn't bother me, I'm thinking, oh my god, but it bothers me, you know extreme found violence and she tufted outcomes and drank you, have to drink or take drugs and get to socio. Did an auditor make your way through this war zone. Let's talk about her background because I know people have like either. I said to you in the beginning, before the programme, I read all kinds of things about her parent is happening, but there are things in this

book that you chronicle that I dont think people are aware of, like that. She had experience death and seen a corpse, but let's go back to the everything that you found out about her background and and also her for re, I guess, to selling sex at a young age there allowing well she her violence you father, hung himself in jail. He was known, ass the file and wage Peter a buyer logical mother, why track down in Texas am always afraid to visit our even on death row? rate of her daughter who had a bad bad temper, no, no compassion possible. Unfortunately, her grandparents, who both alcoholics

ran her biological mother out of town and then they told Lee and her brother Keith that they were real parents. Whether they perform the legal adoption or not. I am not sure I can check and her grandfather was was on. the finnish origin in Michigan, try boy and Rochester Michigan Word gets pretty cold in the winter and was probably difficult and rebellious and she was hard of hearing and visually impaired and the grandmother coolly claim did really love her, never corrected these impairments. I'm not sure why not She managed to get yourself in two different kind if trouble, but her grandfather beat her, savagely.

for minor infractions as well as for major interactions and then- she began. She was Proud that she didn't take drugs and she didn't consider the beer. Did she drank a drug? I do Could she drank a lot of it? But you know in and the day she tried psychedelic She tried grass, she had. Obtained them somehow when she was eight or nine or ten, so she started getting them by having sex with neighbouring boys, and whose voluntary she said this was voluntary, Then, when she was about thirteen going on fourteen she is? She was raped, Fred needed, presumably by a friend or someone who wear? gentlemen shop. As a friend of her father grandfather,. And can you imagine what

family felt here. She's someone who doesn't clean up after herself was Bare Tampa whose allowed doesn't it tension in school can't see can hear very well at the trial. I think this way. True as well, she's pregnant So she goes to the Florence quickened com for unwed mothers in an ear when it was seen as shameful, and there was no question ever about keeping your baby. You have to sign on scene babies, whisked awake and by the way, that's the kind of torture and its catastrophic and dramatic just that that mail serial killers cannot go through in many, ways or in some ways she was like male serial killers bullied and isolated, and if he did two fires with her brother, but then her grandparent parent throughout, and she lived in a

and in car in the snow now. This is unheard of because where were the social workers, where was the police department? Where were the other dont neighbours? Why I was she not looked after all rescued or helped in some way. Of course, she wasn't and I'm not saying she was an easy ride, but you the child. She was a child, so ass, her she was raped, impregnated and forced to give up all probably wanted to give up a baby for adoption That's when she told her aunt sister lorry that men aid us they really hate us. I don't know where that sentence came from in her head, but at that point you the road- and she was young and good looking and blonde and scandinavian and the wise

talking on the road now crews on the road truck is they could be big enough. And good time guys likewise, and she is by then at fifteen. Sixteen drinking a lot of beer, and had a child sense of money so far example. Her brother Keith died and left her ten. Thousand dollars already kind of person would say. Maybe I could make down payment on a house or funds from education. Not she blew in three months on a car which was repossessed, and On beer, music and food, so I only gradually began to comprehend and maybe even though she was slipping smart, and drew beautiful drawings, that's he have had a low. I q is well not a high one enemy,

The way she was thinking child things. If you have enough money from the sex. For a motel room for couple Niger and for beer and food? You, ok, so a bill? need a plan. A hedge was non existent and, unlike many high profile male serial killers. She gentle. clues everywhere. She wasn't a strategic in in her killings, so You can t you have a child in America if a child of Michigan who was just allowed to disappear, and make her own little way in this wide wide world and in Requiem, for male serial killer? I do Some of her descriptions with your heart, rendering of what it means when guys get rough with you exactly what it means-

I'm not going to read them on the air, but you know this was her life and she tufted out and when she was in jail in citrus county. With a male jail- and everybody was like, taunting her the male prisoners. And she started telling me that it makes it on my god. How can you be? arrange got I'm talking taken. It doesn't bother me. Let me talk, you know She was from another world, not my world? I am privileged to lead a life of ideas and an activist life. She didn't have that chance and in fact it was funny because here I came and others The Swiss me who wore a revolutionary in our vision and we wanted to overturn this bad stuff. She

He wanted a piece of the pie. She just wanted to know fair and square on meals in her her money for her work. Different ass. She was a petty bourgeois. Capitalist did not understand, could not believe why anyone beginning with myself and others like me, why do something for no money? He didn't get. It so. I was a fool also not just she, both users and opportunities for a second to for these messages. Now, though, we were talking about just your background, she gets married when she's twenty years old tell us about this very brief marriage. Oh she married Louis fell, who should be

she beat him and he got an order of protection against star and she very proud that he had a lot of money, but she wasn't going to stay with him for the money she had a very Trusting relationship to money He could on the one hand she professor, I don't care about it. One important me: on the other hand, once she was caught and she became notorious or famous or she put it. I've made history. Then she was really obsessed with money, and I understand that many Serial killers are likewise so she had

two very different kinds of relationships to money. Now tell us about this relationship that really is more than a contributing factor to these murders, but just the high point of aliens life and tell us where they met and then how this relationship, what what was the dynamics of this relationship restart and what its ill Eileen tried to do for her new love Kyra. Well, I wish I truly understood, as I also track Tiree it down and interviewed her where she was living a mocking to say where bought. It also them agree that Lee was not really a lesbian. I don't know that means exactly because she said she loved her and she confessed to save her, and she was her one and only her only living person,

in her life. She didn't have family. She didn't have friends so had Tiree, so maybe you weren't sexual many prostitutes or not, How can they be given what they we do and what they must fake, so pray, stay would bondage. Ah job, When did the hip, but it wasn't necessarily primarily sexual, so was a matter of having someone there, a living being a body in the cave. So to speak. So diarrhoea said she didn't like we hooking and that she would have worked to jobs cleaning, motels or doing minimal wage work to keep Lee off the road

we said, no Teresa want in cigarettes and beer, and I had to keep giving her money and I had a work to support her. No, I could not decide where the truth lay between the two of them, oh and led by the way did not. Eight men does not hate men or or at least that's what she said on the one hand, manhatto gotcha, but on the other hand, nay my best friends these guys. You know I do boy, friends or an issue like it Child she would do some things that process you do not do. She would cuddle. She would kiss heard of in the world of prostitution, so again signalling to me that was a primitive child. Try gin, this grown up body, and she had many boyfriends before

lesbian, love affair. She had before area many boyfriend and she could not understand why They always screwed her hid her and left her issue. So I I do see a lot of it through her eyes because she really didn't understand why she kept getting in trouble. Genuine- we didn't get a good. She saw myself is trying hard and being more to say on nobody gave me a break ever was her line, so complicated relationship as most prostitutes do to sexuality it gets wrecked for them rank. Now. How did you conduct herself thousands, the two there was. She thought it was quite a novel approach to doing it. In conspicuous. She said you described as how did she approached prostitution and ended she target

She was very clever how does it guys was to pass the normal she was far from normal, but she wore cut off shore or Genes and sweat sure do very plain no make up. away toward him up, and she was clean too, because many studies, prostitutes in general and definitely in Florida. You know open, running sore. Is they have disease the men have given to them, they have fee visit to stop the John like that, which is something I do not understand and, and they are also dressed up to look like a book is not. she was just dress like an ordinary housewife and her line was all my car broke down, and I have to pick up my kids. Can you give me a lift pretty clever

so, and she also imagine she had a car, and I think the main reason why there is no way that debate He could not afford a car, but she could not get a licence and she was want? There was a war against fire arrest and she had already done time in jail for something that really, she would say, was not her fault that happen to were so she's working like Ben the along the highways in the blazing son or sometimes taking vote trend, bus line so she's the creature from way back? in the past, and everyone else is speeding by uncle in cars. I would imagine that that alone could cause a prayer resentment and a burden on a low boil that got hotter so that was her em all

simple, and it was smart. You talk about the treatment, we were already talk about this: the treatment of prostitutes in general. I am sure that people dont Know- and this is what some of the promise of this book is- their fill people in on the reality of what happens, because many people still myself. They blame the prostitute for lowering the man instead of men looking for women and and then, but just the treatment of prostitutes and and also islands treatment in the past. Before we talk about Richard Mallory or the subsequent other victims? While you know Warner Shelf has very good line in its the opening page of Requiem. she said if men would keep their money in their pockets and their penises in their pants, there would be no prostitution.

And this is true- it is demand that drives it not supply and prostitutes. with a very rare half of one percent exception are not making a free choice of force, choice in order to eat and the majority of prostitutes in the world and certainly in the United States. Are from highly dysfunctional impoverished backgrounds, their view you often women of color, but not only and They are raped, beaten, prostituted at home, this woman who's about to be federally executed, LISA, Montgomery, her her mother, prostituted her to a series of men and home from China, to add on and or from early teenage years on so very typically, prostitutes

March runaways hoping to get this awful stuff behind but of course there then latched onto by pimps and they have to eat they have a homeless homelessness is a big problem. don't have the children there ten twelve thirteen fourteen and the Johns want the young. children, their pedophiles psychologically even when a woman is over eighteen, she has to pretend to look hunger or say she's younger, to be more and more it'll show. Most prostitutes are not there, because it's there that, because I had a choice Jim becoming the president of a large corporations, the president of a university or dean St Hooker ORD, Escort Service hooker watch

into the broader wall traffic and by the way trafficking is. the same is prostitution, it someone being trafficked for the purpose of prostitution. This is a huge global industry, its bigger there guns and its biggest drugs in it? It's female and sometimes male children, male sexual slavery. This is the biggest slave trade that we have, but it is simply not seen that way, which is unbelievable. and the prosecutor Montana, who prosecuted we and who himself had been TED Bundy spiritual with? Is he God, on record he's written some articles in Florida, newspapers describing postage. just while as evil as causing out wonderful family men not

causing them to go astray, but giving them diseases when it's quite the other way around so you write the general you of prostitution. Is she loves it? It's gonna end, well for her. All of the film pretty woman she's bringing men down not than men, Are demanding it, but she demanding of them their money, why because women are not equal economically anywhere in the world, and yes, we have fabulous exceptions, but that's the rule, so something like war zones genocidal war zones poverty. This or and sell their girls. Hence tree them by saying com to America or to wherever

and you have a wonderful job in your meat, a great man to marry you and everything will be terrific and they fall for this from Eastern Europe from Russia from you grain from Thailand from and then no exit from Hell and Our gang rape in them and break this spirit and then they rejected, drugs which they cannot do without. Then most of the money that they earn goes to the pan envy brothel keep and the landlord etc. So you don't get rich from this, so called profession, which I guess I repeat its, not work like sex work, and here I am group like a large number of US part Company with. The feminist, who believe that women have the right to sell anything babies from their womb at any of the orphan

for someone else's sexual pleasure for money. I see it slavery and as a force choice and is extremely violent as a wars chewing killing and not is like, you don't see. The dog is often a very, very well A civilised families choosing to be prostitutes. Some do, but that's not true, is out there. This is an opportunity to stop for the messages from our sponsor witches ritual to really know. What's in your multivitamin my way, less about eight months ago decided to take a look at ritual dot com to read about their unique approach to creating a woman's multivitamin. She was especially interest in their focus on observer billowy of the vitamins or

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it was offering my listeners, ten percent off during your first three months, visit ritual dot com, slash, murder, to start your ritual today now fill us. We were getting along track, because what people have always looked at and of course that's why she was convicted and dumb as that we have to get to the reality the idea that people will accept the idea that a prostitute has shot seven or more men in self defense is beyond an appeal climb. Despite the cases that you site and you bring to the the fence team, let's talk, Richard Mallory and talk about where Aileen and entire, wherein the relationship when Richard Mallory came in into their lives

Richard Mallory was a whore monger and pornography attic Who, amazingly for a white man did? many years in jail, for attempting attempting to rape problem the wrong man's wife and this is while he was married and happily married. He just couldn't get these visions out of his head, so he was not an upstanding guy. The jury never got to hear about his life style and his past imprisonment for sex addiction, because quote the day. Man is never on trial, so Mallory had just been partying with two other prostitutes who were one of whom was picked up. For his murder, but was ultimately like girl, because the

if they were like borne out cause, they too were prostitutes, and so they were made from his murder. Now I believe. Louise very credible description of that night, which would have been, in nineteen eighty, nine, the end of November. At the very beginning of December, even though she herself recanted, I didn't believe the recantations, an eye Been trained as a clinical psychologists, and I was a professor of psychology etc. So you know I had in my bones. I believe her. the first trial. found her moving incredible. She was the only defence witness her nobody else was called none of our pro bono potential dream team were called and.

they were she picked and by and by they decided that yeah they'd have sex. We gave him a prices, he before He tighter up and began to brutally torment her and do terrible thing star. He is, Why doesn't really have the money so that already she's, gonna, write me. It's gonna write me without pay, me that way out of line to her and she told him that, but he he tied her to the steering wheel and add his terrible way with her and when he ITALY was very we rigid carbon free- and I give some examples of this in the book like she would get on the bus and she tell you have to stop right. with the bus driver always start, but no, the bus driver had a new mandate and he couldn't and she went crazy because it had a big on the line.

Imagine if a guy John want something that was way at aligned to her or took it without her consent should get pretty enraged. Member really, Very enraged said not normally enraged, so now we was in that category and shit finally, most miraculously decided to save our life. Could she figured? He was not only kill her, but she said he's gonna, descent may or some weird stuff. so she managed in a split second to get to shopping bag on which he kept a garden, and she said shooting and he didn't stop coming at her and she kept shooting. Unlike a males real killer. She, but his body upset it, wouldn't be pecked at by birds and she didn't want to run over him, so she then drove

car, took, the trophies or money he had in the car lie. Rio and said. Well, you know, friend of mine, you, let me the car, to keep out of sight. His wife will get jealousy whatever story she made up and for a while. She didn't go right back to work. She was spooked. What happened spoke to her and, as I said before, she couldn't gotta the please sausages a whole lot and continued on with life is, she knew it to be so, Mallory boys big guy and as in his treatment of women and men Ex Girlfriend Jackie Davis, who was willing to testify to this, but, of course, quoted Man is not on trial so in so many different ways that the trial was not just or fair

you compare it to the trials of male serial killers off this. No comparison because they who killed mainly prostitutes between seventeen two hundred women. They will get life sentences, not necessarily execution legal acts you should add. It takes the jury's awhile to make these decisions, like in TED Bundy case also in Florida but more knows case, they decided very quickly de unanimously in one hour and a half and death sentence. And another hour and a half year so being perceived after the defence for a change of then you they were not granted that TED Bundy was granted a change of then to Miami from where he was for on trial and

What had been reading all about everything what she had done and the depiction I was told by feminists in Florida who work with rape, victims and battered women. You know they get a friar, every woman that- the national Organization of women in Florida. She's gonna pay the price, because she's, not just a problem two June was being prostitute. Unheard of in this area. In these areas. These counties of Florida, which are not cosmopolitan my army, everybody's, gay everything is happy. Everything goes these are much more traditional areas and my judging That doesn't mean it's bad at all. She said it would view. Someone like are as a swede. creature from Hell, and she the real sell me Louise before the movie opened, she was there doing this.

for all the films that have since been cheered arm with women assassins battered wives who kill. Finally, there was a a huge number of films? now made it into the common culture and she proceeded most of them, which is kind of interesting, resuming Hollywood fantasy world. But what's my career because really fun, it's not fair to compare I'm in accepting a couple ways with women the the trial Monday didn't have a Tiree Moore more the three. You kidding, he had so many fans and married somebody who bore his child on both my alone

Tell me what I mean is that what I mean is that you have you: have this incredible thing to overcome in terms of a rape defence where he, even if it were proven to Richard Mallory, were it was self defense? In that case, there was based on her confession. Now what I'm saying

this case Wheatley complicated by having Teresa in there and then the approach by police and, of course, the phone calls in the convention and the reason for the compassion that Lee says in amidst that. That was the reason for her compassion. So what I'm saying is it's it's much different when you have the pressure on diarrhoea after she is told, and we dimension is, she is told by Lee that she has killed Richard Mallory. You talk about the right, let's stifles relationship with Korea and Lee after Richard Mallory and then what happens in terms of behaviour and conduct from Lee before we leave before we find out where them, where the police finally catch up with these people based on campus withdraw.

And then the pressure on diarrhoea changes. Everything does I think that I really didn't believe her. She thought she was the biggest liar animal. Should artists are excellent. That's what I re told me eventually she began think it might be true, because we would come back to their motel room, the lodging and she'd have another car and she a lot of cash and she never ring- maybe big size male ring. So I think over time, We actually got scared. She wasn't right away again, but she eventually got scared and she back to her family had a very large family and Lee was totally broken up about this and then the hot found

Rita and basically threatened her with a rest cop conspiracy, she knew about it and she didn't come forward. She's gonna be tried for murder and to get out of it. She had a stop calling Lee which she did and they did they take the call There was a wire tat from the jail we kept saying, waiting wait, a minute is just being taped. Are you really in trouble and career reading her lines at the police gave her set all baby in all their coming after me, they're coming out my family, I didn't do anything. This is not right and eventually we, Don't worry I'll, take care of it. So I call that chapter for let me she confessed for love and Irene not only helped entrapper to save her own skin, but me My real wishes she did

she was seen driving wildly and one of the cars and then they had an accident. She was witnessed, so she was culpable and she was legitimately frightens. Anne was well to turn on to to get the heat of her, and she did not commit is presumably anyway. So what made me crazy was not carry his betrayal. What made up crazy was that the cops allegedly will cutting deals for a movie before they came to her. Then type You was in on it, so please presiding obsession thereafter was the cookie cops someday she'd say what you wrote. This law review article whenever I wrote about her case was very good, but you gotta get the car. You gotta get the cops you now and Does that mean. That means the authority figures, the police officers who, in her past

what should listen. I'm a cop and you're gonna get me said, or I'm minnow rest you and I'm not going to pay. You might say She saw her in general and authority figures in general as corrupt and wanted to get them, and this was one of her. main obsessions after she was captured. So. hi Ria. She I'm she got scared and the cops had her and the cops used her and worked. Let's talk about this dream team you are attempting to do and how you were trying to do that with these expert witnesses, but also that some, the Alice. Let's talk about that, that's what you attempted to do and in the team that you assemble to be able to do that. What our hope was with that. If a jury could understand

violent prostitution is and how, if they could understand what one rape could do woman imagine being raped every day a quarter of a million times in your life or more you? Can nobody mind you could, no anymore where you or you could I finally fight back all of these people. a jury. Uneducated would never get that ever more and they didn't Oh was we already so drunk. She didn't know what she was doing well to some extent year. You could say that wash show permanently traumatized an angry and supervision. mean retirees said that we would never let anyone If anything over on Her- and that was a very important saddens me- because

When I profiled her of the kind of serial killers. She is. She, unlike male serial killers, didn't go for vulnerable youngest, smaller people like girls and women. No, no! She hid she punched up at unheard of fear. She pointed out and that means she went for men who would taller and heavier and to some extent older, but not always a lot older than she was and she took him down. this unheard of so so she was always angry and always arguing and she picked fight with everyone. I reset, but was too embarrassing to be in public with her so when they went out to a bar together to was totally which silent said nothing talk to no one and we would often embarrassed them. So what is this What about about Lee warn us tell

tells us that she's got a borderline personality, which is the diagnosis for an intense victim. It tells us that she's got a ah, not Missus early, a sociopath personality put a borderline personality and a social personality disorder. She didn't know the rules at all of strained life. Nothing. She couldn't conduct herself about similarly She didn't know the rules, when she made her concession, and I watched it. read it a number of times with video she for these cops wire Johns like her friends. They offered a coffee, they offered her cigarettes and she was just now beginning to dig deep from alcohol lifetimes worth and She was so soft spoken and husky voice. and she really was act. She thought these I will gonna help her. She didn't know why

we need a lawyer, you could, let me tell you the truth, What do I need a boy of foreign day did not provide one until very late in that confession. So let me tell you. Maybe I shouldn't say all of it, but she's therein, of women who or as abused as Eileen, warn us watch They will become serial killers, you may go down softly and slowly or fast, but they don't kill anyone. She did and theirs many women who are serial killer. She's, not the first one, she's a unique one, but not the first No one is black widows. I'm sure you know this they will kill hushed and after husband or aging after aging patient for insurance policy, money or real property, and they will all. so kill girl.

They wore into prostitution if they try to run away, sometimes fade out. So women kill it's not as if We was the first ever but unlike male serial killers. She didn't do this sexual reasons. and she didn't pick on men, because you wanted to mute wait them imposed women, obscene positions, she's the one that covered their bodies didn't want to run over them by accident. So she may have been really angry Then, in the way that mail serial killers are permanently angry at women who they think are private, to turn they ate being dependent on women and want to triumph over female sexuality and birth, giving capacities, but

didn't, organise her kills, and I had a theory of what may have happened after the first one with Richard Mallory. So what she did was unique these are the only woman going around or prostitutes may have killed a temporary John. some historical examples I give but it rare and it's not, as you pointed out seven, and the men who fully killed. the three with John, the others may not have been the others may have committed, cardinal era of sheet needed their money she needed to eat. She had to pay the rent right. but they didn't want sex with want to give up their money. That could have been.

Our own personal demented affirmative action programme, rights, Some of them were John because their bodies were were naked or naked from the waste or in Mallory case, you wouldn't take off his clothes, but is built in his pants with twisted to decide. Certain- and she didn't do this so a unique serial killer diseases as an opportunity to stop for a second. For these messages. Are you talked about the

The trial and she'd never got a break, her whole life and she never got a break it round. She never got a break with the prosecutor. He talked about his fervent prosecution. Trish, like you said, never the deposit apart me to defence attorney, never called any of you expert witnesses whatsoever in the oil, but that means mean that she threw the case now it may mean that we was just too difficult client It may mean that Trish couldn't see through. She couldn't think out of the box mean she. is. One of the boys shoe is used representing men who rape and men who kill women, mainly an was a woman. What we should get it She gonna handle this. If she won what would happen,

this should be an I'm just guessing that this may not be true. What would a position be in among the old boys network that she's born of sky off the dye core, where's the wine, and that, and also, although I think,. There we was a credible and sympathetic wooden On her own behalf, she, as I said, doesn't stop cursing and it in my opinion, but the time they executed as she was illegally insane. I said Are you know long before this? You could you do in family defence and she was very insulted it never. I warned you know you I said thank you qualify, but she He didn't want that, and it was. She didn't want people

crying into her mind or finding fault with her mind was interesting and do I think that it would have for not sure The thought of this also only refused to do it. Do I think that any statement without my Chattahoochee in Florida, would ever have let her out. No, I don't think so, and they would drugged. Europe, but good, however, to be then on death row in isolation for so many years. It made a crazy. It makes me she both found God she found Christ and she went crazy. There were poisoning her food. You will find a grave coming into her head, the lawyers who good mean got far, they were, Instead they were part of the CIA or the FBI outer space, and

for you now, where's posted execute the insane. Am I wrong. I was asked this question. This is Spock has given a serious question. You see the again she's a public defender trish. Then she can't afford, but one expert witness for the seven trial. That I think will be a leader will be going undergoing, and so how important was that two of those victims after Richard Mallory were law enforcement and how important was it that the women were adamant that then, and some of these guys had reputations, they were successful people that they were adamant, not be smart. Those peoples reputations. How important was the first law enforcement may be involved.

important, I would say, is important but remember glee. The outlaw is the kind of outlook that Americans. Become sands of Billy the kid or it isn't untold number of coach. Follow killers. murderers of large numbers of human beings, so she represented missing please someone who is meant to die unknown, but who became famous for killing and More has a lot of fans. I was very surprised to discover this. I was not a fan. I was a feminist

I wish to want it to have certain principles, understood a lot better in our world and ask me another question: the idea that she again, I don't know she's above Euro, but I know that what I have seen- and I am not looked at this acceptance with posting about this programme, that there is a lot of sympathy that there are many people run out of the way to express that she had this horrible lie. But never had a chance right from the beginning. This is the kind of sentiment expressed about Lee warn us blood in the courtroom, not in the courts, Room and Trish you right, she had bought. did not handle any of the other cases because of how the trial ended up decided with her

interesting to make? Always the wrong decision for herself. She allowed a really creepy lawyer to take her cases over and she played. Out. She was not gonna try I could go on trial again. Could she saw that there would be no justice far, why waste time and she thought it he could then die natural. Just tell the state of forward a killer no not once they have you which up to them when not you, but you didn't know, day and that so true did have an Elizabeth, my man, a doctor, a psychologist, and she had another witness who I refer to her Emitted in primitive childlike being and to our bed in life, but it made the difference it made no difference at all that jury wasn't gonna buy into the into anything. You know they can't be true,

justice. Without some mercy she didn't get any mercy. And many prostitutes, don't male serial killers, kill them. We don't even learn their names. We Remember the names of the killers so and your team, I also refer to her heart childhood and how life it. It made no difference Anna portrayed her successfully as a quote: predatory prostitute, whose quote app I'd full lusting control had taken away. Turn, Someone who, in this is really rich, who quote had been exercising control for years over men and who quote killed for power for fallen ultimate control and of course I am quoting him. directly so this. This was why I want you to the jury to learn what prostitution

Is what prostitution does they didn't have that opportunity? What about the effect? I always wondered about this is well. She has never done any serious crime, petty crime, people convicted of crimes that were just blunders, honey works for limited funds. You know her services, I dont fetch incredible amount of money doesn't know anything in his, never lived anywhere and beliefs, I will as well- it is for her just data day at a motel which is always scraping together. Funds has no car, I could say resent that as a bicycle He's doing all these things, because you finally has a loving her life of someone that accepts Sir

They hang around with each other all the time they hang out. How important was this at some point? These again, I won't dispute Richard Mallory M M herself, the fence, but at some point it at least a factor that she wants. The pleas and provide for her lover? Well, that's what we shall and that which she believed to be true, Diarrhoea told me the opposite, and I truly. I think we wouldn't have given up hooking, no matter what, because This would have for trade. This was her game. This was for survival. This was when he was used to this was these were fake relationships that may have been as close as she could come to a real relationship, and so I don't think she would have given up hooking, but I I do think that diarrhoea mandate, been telling me the truth. Saying look I didn't want to do it. I told you to stop. She wouldn't stop

the work to jobs, but the two jobs that I really would have worked wouldn't have brought in. It's much money easily could bring another. That was a huge sum, but diarrhoea, unskilled labour cleaning motel rooms maybe in your cash register, I dont know so I think both things are true when their opposite truths. What I wanted to about called following, even though I do right about X, I was shocked to discover it that Wikipedia in the entry birthplace, Troy Michigan with tar as one notable people alone. the whole of chicken out Hall of Fame Base player, Tony award, winning actor and an aid EL defence man a pitch. You know so she's become a kind of folk euro.

even though our life was sorted and tragic in. Beyond agonizing, Yes, now folk zero, when people are buying on Etsy a t shirt- with her image on aid and dirt, where her ashes was scattered under a tree in Michigan a minute it unbelievable. But what is it? What is it? What is the attention? What is the one is the focus of their admiration. You were as an outlaw, nobody was meant to die anonymously, but who instead became a somebody, a woman who gave the royal to authority who even took down cops. She was a bike style rebel, Patsy and people are going. To the last resort. The boy wish he was arrested and where she hung out and they have destination vacations at the moment-

which is now renamed that she wants lived at so that now the whole discussion that we could have, what what is it you going on there, I'm sure the monster movie with the Charles thereon help that mythology along its weight, someone click push IRAN is a brilliant actress, Angie personated body, language, very, very well, didn't get inside her and, of course the character played by Christina Ricky is nothing like the real career in this. I know it's hard to do in it's impossible to do, But you do attempt to sort of analyze this, because you say you immediately didn't think of hers. He'll kill you thought of it as a a platform to be able to express yes revolutionary ideas, but,

and she was a serial killer. What yet the analysis for you if there can be Well, like a rule, I am haunted by this fact and rule the great lady in Rural wrote about One day she was once his friend she couldn't believe we really turned out to be so. I, in my way, born looked at her as a victim wanted to use her for political purposes to help women womankind and justice and we gradually came to understand, hey cheese, serial killer, and I was, close to a serial killer, that kind of interesting mean the terrifying! A mood true crime, now I'm committed, but this is the first such book. I've I've ever written, so

I managed to block out until it was utterly necessary for me to look at what you dawn, and try to explain why and how she had done this, for me it was an adventure in figuring it all out before I let you go, tell us fascinating store of how many years it took you why it took. Nineteen years, what tell us up You have yourself well, I really wanted to make a difference in terms of her trial, and what I couldn't, and I wrote several op pieces and then all couple alone would you articles a muddle lawyer, but I did that and I put in the side. We have our response and I published some.

that is in a chapter. I call them love letters and I didn't It truly was surrounded by media, and she didn't trust anyone and she thought that I would also write something: a meal, the blow occasion, I said all fine I'll final legal document. You know that I won't do anything. You know four twenty these are until after everything is over and would have made me in and she I she didn't have me do it but I'll fix you ever trusted me and I said in I have other things to do. I wrote men many other books during time and then literally As I was renovating, my apartment, a box fell off the shelf. I opened it and in it were about five chapters that I'd written long ago, and I couldn't put it down

was wonderful. I said, oh, my god, and how timely and how burning these issues still are. and then I rest erected. My entire warn Us Archive, which meant they were on floppy I had a conversion and then until now, and then I read it. scrap it avoided. The jury. Every legal document my hands on every other book written about her. magazine articles and then the interviews I interviewed everybody and I have tried scripture, the interviews and then I realized Opie. Now I'm gonna do it and ass. I was doing it from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty, no part of the time quarantines. I understood how unique she was Assyria

killer, I didnt pay close attention before. I was writing round the clock intensely for a year. So that's why it took so long really put it out of mind out of sight. I let it go for a while. I was well worth the wait. I want to thank you so much for coming on talking about Requiem for female serial killer. To be released tomorrow. Is that not correct answer? How can you tell us about your website as well I'll get what you do, W, Phyllis, p H, why l l I asked dash Or hyphen see He S. are out There- and I've got some very, very nice endorsement for this book. Up on my home page and please don't be some reviews and I'll have that up

enough to all its a brilliant offering. I want to thank you so much for coming on a talking about Requiem for female serial killer. It's a brilliant, brilliant, offering! Thank you so much Phyllis Chancellor, it's been absolute pleasure. Thank you very much by by good night. Amazon is now hiring mere you we're looking for a team members. You know that delivering important packages is important were ready to work hard to make someone's every day ready for benefits and flexible shifts. Immediate hourly roles are available at Amazon,