« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2011-10-12 | 🔗
It was a time of innocence, a time of hippies, flower children and the Age of Aquarius. A time when young people felt free to roam the countryside hitchhiking without fear. A time when law enforcement was trusted by the people they were sworn to protect and serve. That time was shattered by one of law enforcements own. His name was Gerard Schaefer. He was a former Florida Police officer who lied his way into the office of the Martin County Florida Sheriff’s Office. He used his lie to continue to perpetrate his crimes of torture and murder of young women who hitchhiked along Florida’s roads.  Schaefer not only destroyed the lives of as many as 34 young women, he kept trophies of his kills, and he lived the crimes over and over again. He believed he was doing the world and his victims a justice by ridding the world of the “whores” who hitchhiked. Gerard Schaefer was a narcissistic psychopath who wanted his fifteen minutes of fame. He believed he had earned it. SILENT SCREAM-Yvonne Mason
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Love. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him. Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker BT came every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killers into crime history through murder, with your host journalist and offer Dan happy good evening. This is your host Dan Zoo Pesky for the programme to murder the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors written about them. It was a time of innocence, a time of hippies flower children.
And the age of Aquarius. The housing industry is changing along quickly. That's why we made the Freddy MAC Multivariate Podcast, we're bringing together industry leaders to talk about market trends and the financing behind them subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast a time when junkie I felt free to roam the countryside hitchhiking without fear a time when law enforcement was trusted by the people that were sworn to protect and serve, that time was shattered by one of law enforcement own his name Gerard Schaefer, he was a former floor. The police officer who lied his way into the office of the Martin County Florida Sheriff's office, uses try to continue to perpetuate his crimes of torture and murder of young win. New hitchhiked along floored is roads Schaefer not only destroyed the lives of as many as thirty were young women. He kept trophies of his kills and he lay of the crimes over and over again. He believe
it is doing the world in his victims of justice. By reading the world of the whores, who hitchhike Gerard she for was a narcissistic psychopath who wanted his fifteen minutes of fame. He believed he had earned it. My special guest this evening is your VON Mason, and the book will be discussing is silent, scream welcome to the program and thank you agreeing green to be on true murder. You on Mason Keidan, for having me this book is very close to my heart. We could. I could all that by reading it- and I sure the audience will recognize that as we go on with this. This is one of the most incredible stories that I hadn't heard. Anything well before I read this book, so I also have to think I should have had the guest apart me, one of the listeners to the program is the person that recommended and I had sent you the email with that gentleman's name, but he had highly recommended that I contact you, so I've gotta give props to that.
Person for turning me on to you in this book. An now for our audience has the benefit of this incredible story, now, first off silent, scream It's a story that older it happened in the south these crimes. Please tell us how you came so this case. It's health and why you decided to write about this case. Tell us about that. When I moved to Florida to be with my now husband, he had retired from the state attorneys office. Is there chief investigator and their administrative person? He took me on a tour Of our fair city and part of the tool with S Hutchinson Island and as we were going down a1a, he said he
right over. There is where a serial killer committed his crimes and kept his teeth is trophies well because of my background, which is criminal justice in, and I am a bounty hunter, my degree as criminal justice with a sad in serial killers, which is my passion, because their such an anomaly that you set up all the creative juices and because I had access to my husband and through the law enforcement agencies at work, the crime and to all of the evidence. It was used to bring him to Thailand, conviction, Destroy begged, to be written and once the victims head name. They got him ahead and would not leave. They had to be heard and the more red and the more I found out the sick or I got and the more that I knew that I had to write this story for their benefit, because they were forgotten how many bodies have never been found, and it was important that the young women, through no fault of their own, have a voice because safer stone that boy so much
start at the beginning, with Gerard Schaefer and let's our John Gerard Schaefer, actually full name. So let's go back and as much as I know that you would you wrote your book is that his family? They grew up his devout Catholics and I think that the big poured a part of the story take us back to the Schaefer and her husband and or John pardon me shapers Father tell us about his delete family life. So we can have some idea on what shape this person to become the monster that he did become well apparently, and I never could prove there's that everything that that our red and everything they say per se it apparently his parents had to get married because they will. She was pregnant with him, though. He always said that he was a by product of an unhappy marriage.
And his father, they lived in Atlanta. His father was a traveling salesman for Kimberly Clark, so who's gonna gone a lot. And apparently his father was very abusive when he was home 'cause. He was an alcoholic and his mother was a control freak. Well, when his father would leave home that left Schaefer in his mother and though I was told that Schaefer slept with his mom until he was sixteen years old. I left that as an open, ended question in the boat, because I did not put anything in the book that I could not back up with fat, but there was a psych eval and in that psych eval it was stated that he did sleep with his mom until he was sixteen years old and one of the agents that were in the crime gave me that information well, if a child, especially boy sleeps, with his mother up until he's sixteen years old, that's problem sure and of course, when his father would come home.
Paper was out of his mothers in bed. So at a very early age, at twelve years, old Shafer started hanging himself for sexual pleasure. So we're talking about autoerotic asphyxiation for those that aren't so familiar with this. That is the hang themselves to magnify, buy or increase the sexual orgasm exactly. And not only did he start doing that, but he started killing. Small animals and insects, which is a classic son of a sociopath ik killer. He would go out and kill things just for the pleasure of it things. It didn't bother him like when they got to Florida. He would go out and kill the same crabs or he would pull the wings up a flies. Are he would sit and shoot birds?
the BB gun, just because he could and then dismember them. So he started at a very early age with his sociopath ik Socio, pathic tendencies and then uh Course, as he got older, he got involved. He said he got involved with a girl who like to be raped. Now I do into this believe that I believe that that was part of his narcissistic tendencies and that everything was everybody else's fault, but his I think that he enjoyed raping her because she broke up the relationship and he never understood why, because he always said she always ask for it. She want they to do it. Then he graduated to even more body. I get out erotic fantasies and warning
to do bad things, but he always justified it now. This we're talking about John Gerard Schaefer is no dummy. This guy's got tested IQ wise is well over one hundred and thirty, so I put some in the above average category from the account in your book. He said he up a devout Catholic, so we had the teachings of the roman Catholic Church to either confuse a more to enlighten him. Maybe you can tell us, because part of his of part of the lure of these and with this gentleman in particular, is his charm. Please describe his physical looks with you good. Looking person talk, call muscular color about that. He was an extremely good looking man, he was a very charming man when.
That is victims that got away were interviewed. They said he was, he was very charming. He was very nice. He was very persuasive. He had the small that would literally knock you dead. The picture that I have in the book that was taken when he was on trial. The eyes are dead, but the smile is just as charming as it can be. And that's how he managed to lower the young women into his vehicle an into trusting him, because
He knew how to talk to them in such a way that they didn't mind getting in the car with him right. In fact, he getting back to his catholic upbringing. He would watch his neighbor across the street and he he told his friends Alice know what time she got ready for bed and he told his friends that she was a whore and that she was asking to be raped and he was just going to go over there and knocking the door and going give herself because She would like it in that's what she wanted right, so he was peeping Tom early on a very early on. There is one thing I found quite into
Testing two is that maybe you can tell us when this happen approximately is that he had thoughts of becoming a priest and yeah. That was shortly. That was when he was in college. He had already washed out of teaching because he had gotten in trouble while he was in a uh, but they call a student teacher. He gotten in trouble there, so he decided he would go into the priesthood, and I think that goes back to his sense of guilt for his past behavior and also it gave him an open doorway two get rid of young women. I mean who doesn't trust a priest now what happened with his bid for the priest orders interested in being a priest? What did the perspective.
What about the clergy, but what are the? What did the people in power have to say to woman? What was is what was his fate as a pre, steady loud, never made it because they carry it. He did not me. Criteria. Apparently there was something in me and a better. The psyche, Val are one of the tasks that they gave him. They said we know, I think we can use you you're, not what we're looking for you're, not the caliber person that it takes to be a priest. The other thing was, is you had alluded to was that he I had gone through teachers college, or he wasn't teachers college and he was a teacher's assistant or, like you say, a student teacher, but he was dismissed from two different schools. Without any real explanation on why they didn't want him, as a teacher at these schools is not correct. Yes, and in hindsight I have a feeling it was because he not have messed with some children.
And that being that time period, as with the catholic church, at that, nobody wanted to say anything all right. Now the other interests that he has among many things, was One of the main A steady hand had in terms of occupations was he to be a police officer in that area? Did you go to school criminology? What did he do to that? For that pursuit? He went to the police academy and he passed the police academy. But while he was in the police academy, there were several men there that were very leery of him because of his braggadocious attitude about how he treated women and what he did with women. And when he did pass the parcel mean the man was a genius and then
got on one of the police department's down in South Florida. And he worked there for awhile and he got in trouble and when he got in trouble he decided it was best if he left so he falsified his chief signature on a letter of recommendation and got hired by the Martin County Sheriff's department. Now, where is Martin County? That's it is at Fort Lauderdale that noise Lauderdale it's about an hour north of Fort Lauderdale. It is. It is south of ST to county where I live, but it's it's between Saint Lucie is between sent LISA County Anne Broward County, which is Fort Lauderdale, which is where he was from, but he had moved when he got the job with the Martin County
Sheriff's department. He moved to Stewart which is in Martin County. Well, it was not knowing his background and not knowing that he had falsified the chiefs signature on this letter of recommendation recommendation, the sheriff at the I'm hiding. Of course remember. This was the ninety seven, these they didn't talk to each other and they hurry because of his. Great grades at the academy- and he had gotten some accolades at the police department he had been out prior, and they were in dire need of good chairs in Martin County because the county was going by bound for so they, but he didn't already in killing he was involved. The accolade you talk about was that he assisted or arisen,
majorly involved in a drug bust. Yes, ok now, let's get to when is on the Martin County police force. This is first. Incident that we see- and we are you- introduce Nancy Trotter IMPACT Sue Wells describe what happened when John Gerard Schaefer Nancy, Trotter Palace, who wells and under what conditions. Please explain that incredible story. Those two young ladys head
made their way to Florida from their home state. They had stopped in Buloxi, Mississippi to visit one of the one of the sisters and had hitch tight, two Jensen, Beach Jensen Beach is in Martin County. They were apparently making their way to the beach. That day, when Shaver pulled up in his patrol car, ask him what they were doing, and I told him that we're going to the beach and he said well, why don't ask him where they would he ask him where they were staying and they tell them? And so he said tomorrow I will be off. Why don't I come and pick you up and I'll? Take you to another beach, a better beach. So the next day his wife
had a dentist appointment and down in Fort Lauderdale, so Schaefer in his civilian clothes goes and picks up these two goals, but instead of taking them to a beach, he told him he and the self it show them an old fort. What there's no votes and the support it in this part of the especially on that island? There's no point at all so he takes them to a remote area on Hutchinson. Island in Hutchinson. Island is an island. It's a long island that is situated between they Indian River and the Atlantic Ocean and then 1970s. There was nothing on A1A, but man grows and road is very remote,
so it takes him to an area. Is that is get a lot of men grows with a heavy rates on them. He proceeds to Barnum, to gag them and to hang them and they bound him with handcuffs. He forgot whatever it was that he needed one of his tools of the trade and he told them that he was teaching them a lesson because that they could get picked up by slave traders and he was going to teach him a lesson, so he leaves them in. He goes back to his house and as he comes when he comes back, the girls are gone. So it goes back to his house again and he calls
sheriff Crowder so without front cutting his grass, and he tells Crowder that he's done a bad thing and Crowder ask him what he's done, and he tells him that he's done this to these two girls in the other gone. Well Crowder tells him to come down to the station. In the meantime, Crowder gets in his patrol car and starts n on a Wednesday becomes upon a car with a gentleman that stand in the saddle, Car and one of the things he has one of the girls- and what has happened is the girl, forgotten Lou. They gotten out of the news, one of a pen how buggy down a cell phone. I, when they crowded, pull that they put her in the car, then she take him back to the place where the other girl had been left in she's on there. They find her in the Indian River. Trying to get away, they bring both the girls back to the sheriff's department and they tell their story.
In the meantime, somebody's interrogating safer. When it was all done, Bob Cracker had the good to arrest safer on two counts: a kidnapping into counts of assault, because crowd had the nerve to do that when he ran for share of the next time he lost, because you didn't do that. You did not cross the blue line while so he lost his job as a sheriff. When shaper went in front of the judge, the judge gave him six months. They got all the charges, but one assault toward the judge gave him six months in jail. Schaefer said well. Can I take some time to get my affairs in order? This is like in September. Can I get time to get my affairs in order, because I
need to get my wife down to Fort Lauderdale, to stay with my mother and daughter, yadda yadda, so the judge not knowing the history because, like that huh they said they didn't even know what a serial killer was. He thought it was something you ate for breakfast and they did not, all these other girls had disappeared. It is ok. You have to repay word on January the 15th to do your six months from September. Until January, the a safer killed six more young women, while so to the judges, credit build a game. Six monthly drop a bunch of charges, but
you didn't buy into his story that he was just trying to scare these women to not hitchhiking. They didn't buy that they didn't buy into it, but they didn't take it far enough because they didn't know any better. Now he gets the six months he goes to jail. Is there any events? It was an eventful. His time in prison. Tell us about his time in prison. He was due to get out in April MID April, on April. The first two gentlemen found two bodies on South Hutchinson Island applying blind creek, which was down from or north of the power plant and when
my husband and the other law enforcement agents, got there and started working the crime scene it dawned on them that this was the same Evo. That shaver was serving time, for the stories were just what it looked like to them match with the two girls had told that got away, so that gave them probable cause for a search warrant. They got a search warrant for Schaefer support but in Stuart, and they got a search warrant for Schaefer's mother's house in Fort Lauderdale when they got there. They had to bring in the Broward County Sheriff's department, because the Cross church
diction alone, so they had to bring them in when they brought them in and they executed the search warrant. They found a treasure trove of trophies, and not only did they find trophies, they found photographs. They found a book that Schaefer was writing. And he said, was fiction, but when they read it, it made him all very, very ill, because it was confessions of the crimes he had committed, or at least it seemed like it. It seem like so the brought him up on charges of murdering the two girls: they they convicted him of it and he got life because at that time,. In nineteen, seventy two Florida Supreme Court, an all of its infinite wisdom, struck down the capital punishment right
He couldn't kill anybody for capital crime. You could only give him life while the two girls were killed in September of seventy two and when they brought him to trial, even though they brought him to trial and seventy three, they could only give him why they could not ask for the death penalty now at the list going back. Let's, let's talk about the trial a little bit, he really didn't the police, despite everything they had what they did find at his mothers house at Dorothy Schaefer's house. When you talk about trophies the trophies were things like a purse, the personal effects correctly, and so what they did find was they found personal effects of people that they didn't know where missing yet or certain didn't know anything about. But at the same time,
but I want to talk about is the trial. Is that, despite not have overwhelming evidence, they had a lot of circumstantial evidence, and yet they still got a conviction and gave him a life sentence, but tell us a little bit about the kind of evidence that they did Coble together to be able to convict them of of these two women. They found a brown suede bag that belong to Susan Place, the found a military bloc Bob Box that belonged to Georgia, Jessup and when the when they were putting all of these things that they would bring em at the house when they were doing an inventory, a long there was an,
officer sitting? There writing it into the inventory line and he asked Door Schaefer. If she recognized these two articles and she said no, she had never seen them before ever but when it came to trial the family circle, the wagons and perjured themselves on the stand and said that the jury box belong to Grandpa Schaefer and that the brown suede bag belonged to Shafer. That he had bought it to put his bullets in right and I never could sway them. That then did not belong to the people. They said they did, but the victims parents identified both of those items as belonging to their children. Right now, what was the behavior in the demeanor of John Gerard Schaefer. When he's looking at life in prison uh
what was his demeanor and what was his behavior like at the trial? It was very relaxed. He was very nonchalant. He was, he really believed he would get off and he threatened to kill. The prosecuting attorneys both feel Shala ran Bob Stone. He threatened to kill their families, he threatened to kill my husband. He threatened to kill all of the law enforcement that was involved, Rick Mcelwain, everyone that was involved, Steve Williams, everyone that was involved in the case. He told him that he was going to kill him. In fact, when they. We're sitting in court one day before the judge came in, they were very small courtroom and he leaned over to Bob Stone. I feel Shala ran, he said seal, and so your wife and daughter at the park yesterday they should it look nice
Yes, so he's taunting authorities in the victims, families and anyone else can't the other thing I found. Quite interesting to is that his he was married at the time to a woman named Teresa Dean Teresa Schaefer. Does his wife stick with him through the straw his mother testify and on his behalf? What about his wife, his wife's set within the entire time credible and say there is, something that was left out of the book and I left it out in ten point, because Teresa Bit was as much of a victim as the victims were right when he and again this was second hand, so it did not put it in the book, but the source that I
Despite the very credible and the source told me that later Teresa made the statement that for he would allow her in the bed at night. He would make her lay down on the tile floor in the bathroom until her body was cold interesting now, what about the media at the trial and and how? If and how does John Gerard Schaefer and is being a narcissist and and also being a person looking for attention? What happens with the media? How do they, how seriously they consider this story and then how does he interact with the media. The media ate it up and Schaefer laid them like a piano,
he was charming. He was oh, this is going to be fine, I'm going to get ouf, I'm not guilty. I didn't do this bob, stone is a liar and the media because it was such a unique crying and if it hadn't never happened before the media, it was like a feeding frenzy was like sharks in the water. People could not get enough of Schaefer and they were everywhere and every time they showed up. Schaefer had to tell his side of this and he lived for it as long as I played his game, his way, one of his sword? That's all I had one of the story is the report A4 was just to just to muddy the waters. Was he said that the reason that he was in prison or that he was charged was because he was about to reveal
information about a police drug dealing. Story and they were. This was a way of the police internally, silencing him, and he did get. I don't know about mileage, but the media did print a lot of the allegations from Schaefer and he had a few allegations like you say that Robert Stone, the prosecutor was this, and so there was A fair amount of attention by the media and they must have seen him as a good and in thing interview. So. Well, you don't want shaper play disturbed unless you know that bad news sells papers, sure and people they live off of it, but at the same time it was frightening, because Stewart was like a back road country town. There was no
sing their port Saint Lucie, where I live. Roads went nowhere. There were no houses, so this whole area was pretty remote that people felt safe because they believed in their police officer, will Schaefer destroyed it. So that's old papers to hear you have a cop. This out killing women. How many more cops are out there killing women now now C Trotter and PAMELA Sue Wells. The first almost victims of Gerard Schaefer did they testify at the trial. They did and willingly, in fact, my heart Jack wanted to do a re enactment so that they could show it at the trial and they flew the guy
Goes back down here and the girls were more than willing to go back to the scene of the crime. Be hung, be bound and be gagged so that they can shoot the footage. For the trial and when they got on the stand, my husband said they were impeccable right. Now the lawyer for the defense, you talked about the prosecutor being Robert E Stone and will talk about a little bit about him a little bit later, but an interesting care. There is the defence lawyer Elton Swartz not was a little bit about out of sorts and just the fact that it used at reality talked about endless motion. So talk a little bit of add ons Schwartz before
or we give the audience another surprise. Well. Elton Swartz was with the public defenders office and he was the best public defender at that time. He knew how to defend, but I think in the back of his mind that he really believed that Schaefer was guilty and his second chair was Bruce Colten, who had just gotten out of law school right. And Bruce had a pregnant wife and needed a job, so he literally was baptized by fire, because this was his first capital crime case.
Now, both in our state attorney but Elton, would lead his witnesses, especially door shape. Her aunt, Theresa by the hand through the proceedings with kid gloves,. It is very kind to them and he was very easy with them. The thing is with Elton Schwarz at the beginning of the trial. Again, he filed new where's motions, basically trying every think he could in his in his vigorous defence, but one other thing is that he tried and wasn't successful, but he really tried very hard was do have some psychiatry designate job Gerard Schaefer as being insane
to that avail to that avail. What was it exactly that they were trying to say? Was his illness and tell us a little bit about the battle of the psychiatrists? Well Elton trying to get this attaches to say that that Schaefer was not real possible for his actions that he did not know what he had done and that he did not know the difference from right or wrong and that he had a personality disorder will when the psychiatrist. Yes,. With evaluation. Hey determine safer exactly what he was doing in that that Schaefer was indeed not insane and that what they did is they took him up to Chattahoochee, which is the local nut house for thirty evaluation and the psychiatrist plainly said that he was a narcissistic sociopath with homocidal tendencies, so they could not use that defense and what Swartz was trying to do
Was delay the trial for as long as possible so that people would forget about it and maybe he would get him off didn't work right. So we sentence to life when all is said and done, and what do we find out somewhat later, but during this whole process at some point, Teresa Schaefer files for divorce, but why does she file for divorce. And who is she now with the way the safer found for the boy in November after safer sentence in September?. And she turns around several later and married Elton towards the defence attorney. And apparently it sometime during the course of the trial.
She and Elton got very close, and you know it was like. I see it as a psychiatrist in patient relationship. Ok, he was her Savior from and I really believe that Schaefer abused her on many different levels, because she was very young when they got married and he had had he been out doing his. Killings for many years. Prior to that, and I really believe that that she bought his bill of goods and didn't know how to get out of it. Because again, that was a time in history where women were not protected like they are now and I'm sure she was afraid of it and I'm sure in his, He did no wrong, so one Elton came along Elton was like her knight in shining armor, and I got married several days after her. Divorce was final and Schafer use that in his one of his thirty four appeals.
That he did not have adequate defense, because the defense attorney screwing around with his wife. My now, this story is just got so many twists and turns so he's in prison, but at some point right away. What he's doing to is trying to get out of prison? So what does he do? He is a turns into a jail. How snitch try again information on other murderers and he's in you say, he's a minimum security present. So he he has the ability be in the freedom to do some things, and what does he do with that freedom? Tell us a little bit about his behavior in prison before he gets shipped to Starke prison. Tell us about what he does out when he was at Avon Park, which is a minimum security. It's like
we can now. He would invite reporters to come visit him. You would have them record him while he read excerpts of his book. He would also. This is also at time when he would write the threatening letters to law enforcement, to Bob Stone to fill shaler to my husband to read Macklewain into other people there were involved and even to Teresa to Elton and to Bruce he would write letters saying that he was going to kill them and he was going to do this and he was going to do that, and he got while he was at Avon Park. He got involved with Thunder London again. He had been involved with Sandra when they were in high school and had broken up after about a year and after he became convicted of this crime.
One hundred hooked back up with him because she wanted to become another Ann rule. She wanted to write true crime and she wanted to get her fifteen minutes of fame, so she hooked back up with Schaefer. While it was a run park and tell him that she would be more than happy to tell his story will his story was his book that he was Britain called killer fiction, which he said was his imagination, Which in actuality, it was confessions of his crime, which he never admitted to when Sandra didn't play to his tune. He started threatening, her and her daughter. In the meantime, she gets him all these enter in interviews and corn affair and get seizure.
Where to go in and he right, you re down his books to him and he make statements. Why did I do it? You tell me a story real or not. And he was always playing the mind game and he could get away with it. In fact, he even when he was there got involved in a game where then his father was involved and as well as a filipino bride, and it was a prostitution ring and he was making money and he was all waiting writing two different people under these different names and he was writing them erotica and it was getting paid for it. Well, let's, let's be clear what this is.
So that he met a person name Eric Ross. They became partners he's a photographer and they threw the father. He set up conference calls for Eric Ross photograph. Children with animals got a legitimate organization, called dot. Byrnes agency. And they actually convinced seven adults he did to pose naked for this. Dog refer and anyone over them are in prison and got the children to pose naked. Incredible incredible The man could do anything and when it not only donned on the law enforcement, what was going on and what they would do is Schaeffer would call his father. Then they would three way to the clients. Well, when it got when it all came out, they move Schaefer, then too stark so,
which is also known as riford, which is a maximum security prison, which is where the electric terriers enter for certain amount of famous serial kill, like our body. Well, will know TED Bundy, Ottis Toole yet being summer to them most notorious serial killers, especially they shared the same characteristic. They loved media they loved either exaggerating or telling the truth or a combination of both and they loved Braga. There were braggadocio sure, and if you believe what safer said he in Burundi head this. I want to call it love hate relationship because Bundy according to Schaefer, said that he read about Schaefer and that's why he did what he did and he wanted to know how many safely kill, because he killed thirty, four and Schaefer said well. I did one more and then he told Bundy, there's two types of serial killers is an organized in a disorganized shape
the very organized killer, Bundy was not and he told Bundy. He said what you do. Is this wrong. You don't know how to kill you like to big of a mess yeah incredible Now one of the stories with which involve TED Bundy noticed two orders to is sort of a not so intelligent cereal. Nobody had the smarts, I guess the cause enough trouble and named he had killed all these people, including America, most wanted host John Walsh, John Walshes son, Adam Walsh, was killed and oldest tool and. John Gerard Schaefer hooked up to try to act, sort money from John walls. Fifty thousand dollars for the remains of Adam, safer, tell downward said,
three thousand dollars, he would tell him more. Adams head was well. I know that that they close the case in accredited that to Otis too, but I studied Otis too, and they gathered he killed with. Two was not smart enough to do that on his own out of tune with a follower, but I know that the war twenty closure, so they said, ok, we're going to give it all but tool of them. The brain do that out there but say, or was smart enough, because at that time that that particular crime was with while should sign was everywhere, and it happened in Viro Beach, which is north of me, and they wanted to know that you know want one enclosure, so he figured that he would use that to get a notoriety and they favouritism said it. Maybe some of his time
I might get knocked off or he might get some extra points in prison, some extra freedoms- and that was not the first time that he had done that he pretend to be the jailhouse lawyer to gain information to use against the prisoners that he was pretending to represent right right now, back to this his bragging, he does say to uh some inmate that he has killed three thousand four hundred and thirty or three thousand and thirty four young women now in terms of law enforcement after he is sentenced to life, unlike maybe some other jurisdictions or some other time in history. The law enforcement said. Listen, I think we better invested,
get this guy for other murders and see if the MO matches, and so that's what went on so in terms of those thirty four, the claim that he had killed thirty four women. What line for, I believe and how did they proceed? They believed that he killed at least nine and the reason they believe. That is because, in the evidence that they found it, Doris Schaefer's house was a passport. A drivers license and I birth certificate. And they belong to two girls that were later found over. It ok as soon as they found that evidence. They went back to South Hutchinson Island looking for those two girls, but they did not
find him until later overt outcome. In part, that was quite good enough and Wilcox Barbarian Wilcox. They also found a bone little phone book. They belong to common Halleck. Her bodies never been found either. They found a jumble of other evidence that they never could have done. If I who it belong to it one time they were going to try to take him back to court and convict him for common Halleck and Lehan lies because they found her necklace, but they decided not to because they will say this took him back to court and retried him on the outstanding death that he get off on all of 'em. So they decided not to go there and just leave him where he was.
Has he was making all these appeals in the meantime and the judge was no amount of John amount to out till after the fourth one when he said I've had enough. Don't do anymore pills, you're, not going to get in front of me again that Bob Stone made the statement that it was better that he be convicted for the two then go free for none of 'em. Now, let's get back to Sondra London, and it was as far as uh I believe in your book. You talk about him, it being a second, girlfriend and they broke up. They both went to different schools, so there was not in trauma there, but this Sondra London. When you talk about, Wanted to become the next Anne rule 'cause. She had read stranger beside me, which is an rules classic look her first work where she has a relationship with TED Bundy.
That does not belong to her at that time that this is a serial killer, that she has just been signed on as a book contract to write about in the event that he gets arrested, so incredible, incredible story. Now what I found interesting was of all the odds, her boyfriend becomes a serial killer and she becomes involved with the publishing business. She was already involved when she said: ok, listen. I think this is the story that I'd like to deal with Andy, and he has book was, as you mentioned, killer action I wanted. We do have a little bit of time left in the program and I was wondering if you would read of, or at least tell us about- if not it actually read the words that are coming in and killer touch, because the sea, the the monster, the beast that he is is really evident.
You read some of the material that, of course he said, was fictional, but as law enforcement yourself myself and probably anybody who reads it knows that this is the ranting of a psychopathic killer morning. When I was writing about Carmen and I was reading what he wrote, I looked at my husband and I said this is a confession. This is Carmen and he's I know what you know. I read what I found particularly interesting. If you do can references the most. Horrifying thing that I did read is what he said about. While one woman watched he did something to the other woman. At a level that other woman died swallowing own drowning in her own vomit, do you remember what page that was noise,
but what I can say is that, while you reference something to read, is that what he had said was that he disemboweled one woman, while her friend watched, I found that incredibly decided it. That's exactly what he did that. That is exactly what he did. Let me give, I think it's a book. And I have I have killed, I like to never found killer fission killer fiction is now out of print, it is yeah and. If you can find it, it will cost you a fortune from sure. Let's say see what I can find there. We go.
All right, we will need an isolated area. Assembled accessible by car and a short hike away from any police patrols are parking lovers. The execution site must carefully be right. For a speedy execution once the victim has arrived. Ideally would be too so horses with a two by four, preferably the car. A grave must be prepared in advance away from the place of execute, The victim was the any one of the many women who fought to Miami and Fort Lauderdale during the winter months. Even two victims would not be difficult to dispose of, since women are less wary when traveling in pairs. In any case, it may be more preferable to bind and gag the victim before transport
him to the place of execution, then again, depending on what torture Ardaf ominous plan for them. Other items may be useful bars of soap and water. These are be useful. If you would want to watch a woman before her execution and do search a euro, They D been washed. Her so provides an excellent lubricant for anal intercourse. Beer is useful to induce urination and make the victim groggy more cooperative can also be forced into the right them to induce desiccation about possible you may want to desert cases. People generally have a desire to do this when they are scared. A douche bag may be helpful and degrading her father and is also useful, and I felt that Anima, which would be a great indignity, especially one victim, was made to urinate or defecate on the other. This would be a gross indignity now on stockings are useful to tell the hands and feet of the victim.
The victim should be made to strip, at least to her underwear is stripped completely nude. An attempt can be made to excite her sexually. This effect would be especially interesting at the victim had her neck in the news and hands tide behind her back. A white pill. Ok should be placed over her head in her mouth gagged. Her panties should be pulled down enough to expose the gentle gentles ed clitoral stimulation applied during the height of her excitement that support Would they pulled away and she would dangle by her neck? She may be revived before death if desirable and subject catid to further indecency after death has occured. The corpse should be violated if not violated already. The body should then be possibly mutilated in care.
Get to the grave and buried all identity papers should be destroyed in the place of the execution, dismantle and that's exactly what he did incredible incredible now,. John Gerard Schaefer is in solitary confinement, is considered a rat he's doing everything he can he's pretending he's a jailhouse lawyer and being very helpful to other inmates. Meanwhile, is gathering information. In fact, one in made that he got in farming from ended up on death row now tell us what the fate of John Gerard Schaefer was in the start prison and what was when was that backs Toy Schaefer added the goodness of his heart, and I say that in parentheses, instituted getting a water cooler in the pod,
The water cooler allowed the man to be able to get warm water for their super coffee or whatever from they got it out of a can. Take well because he thought that since he had inst to do this, he was allowed to get two cups. They could only get one cup, but he decided he was going to get two cups of water. He went to his room or to his cell. And one thousand nine hundred and ninety three on Mr Rodriguez, who was crazier than Schaefer, followed him into his sale and took a shank and poked out both eyes and sliced him
From Mount from his ear to the other ear across his mouth and that sent the message- and the message was this- you no longer see, and you can no longer talk. He said that man so many times if they couldn't even hardly clean up the blood because he bled out from all. I think there were over thirty two stab loans and, most ever more in his face and in his eyes, convertible and even the psychiatrist said that the guy that committed the execution he was even afraid of him. So it took somebody who was. More evil than Schaefer. If that were possible to finally dispense justice now you say that the investigation he wasn't up, he didn't actually get formally charge for the other murders. But
Maybe we have, if you can reference this, maybe we can name a few of these nameless people, these nameless victims. I think I have. I may have a vocal yes, and I did do that at the end of my book hold on just a minute this this. This is the part of the book that I've have hard time getting getting through, because when I do speeches these people are with me all the time for eight months when I, but this book I didn't sleep because there were always in my head, but the girls or Georgia Jessup Susan Place, call it Goodnough Barber in Willcox Nancy, Lechner,.
Amnesia Nancy totter em all well common Halleck. They have on the Linda Hudson. Those are the nine that way know about those goals, Nancy Lechner and PAN data. Whenever found they they were. His first till kills were killed, killed in nineteen sixty six calendar Ocala National Forest. They were never found in two thousand and seven. When I first started researching this book, they close by. Case, because Rick Mcelwain had a file and in that file with a letter that an inmate had sent him. That said that Schaeffer confessed to him that he had killed these two goals. I see Nancy Trodden Palma are the two that got away. Common Halak has never been found. She left a baby girl.
They had allowed with failed, but when the Hudson has never been found, their Burma has never been found. There are two other girls: it was eighty nine years old that were found. You later. Mary was colony was one of em. They were found years later, but they have never been attributed to safer, but we know but we shave her because they disappeared. While he was a substitute teacher down implantation and he tell it at the school that these girls went to yeah kredible coincidence So now you say that you live with this dinner and I
can totally understand from reading this book spoken. Anyone listen. This interview can tell how passionate you are about the subject and how much it is. Can wear on you to deal with such a psychopathic, an evil purse, and then all of these that damage the carnage basic, We that is left behind the twisted families, the missing children. These are all for the most part young innocent or not not, there's any guilty women, but young innocent, vibrant women. In that me, during the time of their lives, they were, they were snatched up and and for this they stick. Evil killer to have his his jollies- and I thought was very interesting to is the book that was put out killer fiction and it was another book put out
after that from this Sondra London person and then at Sondra, London again as in others ray I dealt with, I think, was carried Mitchell had written story about daddy rollings. Yet or maybe is the book I already have. I mean I'm getting a little confused, but she wrote she hooked up with Danny Rollins after after Shafer started fading into the back pages of a newspaper she dropped him like a bad habit and hooked up with Danny Rollins and that's when he started threatening to kill her because Danny Rollins also it start where Schaefer was grown. Woman he's a serial killer. The kid killed eight students at times already
University of Florida. Now they not only with the victims affected and not only where the families of the victims affected, but the two girls that were killed it of Ocala. There was a stranger who is affected, who became an alcoholic and died an alcoholic when she saw Schaefer take a body out of the trunk of his car at prairie, preserve and walk off into the preserve. You know the other thing I wanted to say just before this, that one of the the one of the most important things that happened at the trial was that I think it's Susan Place was it the other was her mother, she had said, listen, met this guy and he gave an alias in, but the mothers thought something was off LA
she went outside and took the license plate number down and that led to police. That was a big big break in this case and also her testimony and that license plate is a very interesting story for those that read the book that this was the sort of turning point here and very important to the trial that she had the presence of mind to go out there and check out that, in spite of the wise might, I D been convicted of those two man. He would not have an end that the third party ass every one of those people who involved in this case everyone of the law enforcement officers that were involved with forever changed by the carnage that Gerard Schaefer perpetrated on these girls? When I went to look, there were four boxes of evidence and when I went to look at the evidence I took my husband and my husband is seventy, six years old and
this case is over thirty years old and we started going through the evidence. He was with me and he went through the first three boxes with me. There's one box left that had the clothes that they found at the crime scene that belong to Susan Place in Georgia, Jessop, and I wanted to touch those clothes and to touch the tree trunk and two hundred to wrap myself. A row let us go, and I, when I went to go through, thereby City VON, where you been added me. If I don't go with you, he said I can. I saw my husband transported back to nineteen seventy three and I saw the look on his face and it was so sad and so devastating because it was like it happened yesterday in my hand, at my husband Cindy as he sing. What are you saying things that most people don't see in his job with this case affected
everyone of those men so much that even going back thirty, four years later, it was like yesterday, yeah that's understand. Well, this serial killer, John Gerard Schaefer is one of the most complex, fascinating and hands down. I've done the show for almost two full years. I've read countless countless books about the most famous and infamous serial killers. This guy ranks right up. There is one of the most fascinating In compelling charismatic, he really does TED Bundys a fascinating character. John Wayne Gacy have a program on next week. The defense lawyer. That defended join when case it will be on, but really this is one of those for black better term, just a hidden gem of evil. This person in a very fascinating very fast. Maybe you had to read the book
because the more I tag anymore, I had to know, and the more I had to know it was like several people had tried to write this but before we can they'd rider, he threatened to one oil and. When I started writing the book friend of mine, who is a victims advocate for the state attorneys office, she said if I, and what about the families? I said Barb, I'm writing this boat from a perspective. That no other writer has ever gone before If I'm writing this book, the way that it was so and I'm writing this book in such a way that everything that I had can be documented. It's all public record. I did not contact, not one of the victims, families when I was writing this book.
As soon as the book came out, I got an email from Susan Place is nice and she asked me about the book and why were the end? I told her. I sent her book. She emailed me and tell me thank you, because she now had peace well, she gave the book to her. Father's name is Joe on an email me and asked me if she could give her father my phone number, because he wanted to call me. He called me, and he said I. While we were talking about a grown man, he was sobbing. They said I wanted to say thank you, because my family has finally found peace.
He said you showed what a truly evil man Schaefer was in my family. Finally, has peace. Ethical. My husband want the case. That's how I got of all the information about, because I got information, nobody else could get sure and he wanted to talk to Jack, and when I talk to Jack he was crying. Jack was crying, I was, and I don't cry easy. It takes a lot to make me cry, but all three of us were sobbing and it was like he was finally able to grief and let his sister go well, that's a real testament to what you've done and the sensitivity that you've that's imbued in this book that you've taken and considered. That is your most
focus and I think that just that phone call itself must have reassured you that what you have done was worth it and how you had handled. It was the right way, and I gotta say that this incredible story and and thank you for the book and thank you for this program, so I want as we're wrapping up here. I want to thank you very much for coming on the program and talking about your book, silent scream, and maybe you can just tell us how the best way to get ahold of this book. This is self published, but tell us how But people were interested in this book. How would they go about finding this book? It's on Amazon, its own, Kindle the it's on LULU and you can order you can on my online bookstore with you. Will get a signed copy at the book attic a ecrater dot com?
Again people been listening to the program. This is silent, scream with my special guest Jovon Mason, and join her on Facebook and look up this excellent book and read it for yourself. You will not be discipline, so I want to thank you very much. You want for common on my little programme here, true murder, the great interview and I want to if you in, and you have a great evening, I need to damage. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it because, because of you, the girls, now I haven't even a greater voice. Well, thank you very much and, like I say, have yourself a great evening. Thank you. The list is a program to murder the more shocking killers in true crime, history and the opposite, a written about them. With your host Danzig ASCII, we ve been talking about silent scream with you on Mason good night.
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.