Orange Police Sergeant (Ret.) Michael W. Streed is "The SketchCop." He's a one-of-a-kind crime fighter who's frequently called into action by police departments seeking help solving their most difficult cases.For over three decades, Michael has provided signature images for the country's most notorious murders, rapes, and kidnappings, including the kidnapping and murder of five-year-old Samantha Runnion, as well as the Baton Rouge Serial Killer.The SketchCop has fought crime, coast-to-coast, from Los Angeles to Baltimore, Salt Lake City to Baton Rouge. Along the way, he has papered the walls of police squad rooms with sketches of their city's most dangerous criminals.In this collection of true crime stories, Michael shares cases from his own portfolio. He describes how he connects with, and empowers, courageous victims and eyewitnesses, from all walks of life. Using their descriptions, the author creates life-like sketches of the assailants with an accuracy that has led to quick identifications and captures.SketchCop - Drawing A Line Against Crime provides readers a glimpse at some of Michael W. Streed's career cases and the significant role he plays in the criminal justice system. SKETCHCOP: Drawing a Line Against Crime-Michael W. Streed
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening,. Orange county sergeant, retired Michael W Streed is the sketch cop is
one of a kind crime fighter who's, frequently called into action by police departments seeking help solving their most difficult cases for over three decades, Michael has provided signature: images for the country's most notorious murders, rapes and kidnapping. Kidnappings including the kidnapping and murder of five year old Samantha runnion, as well as the Baton Rouge serial killer. The sketch cop is fought crime coast to coast, from LOS Angeles, to Baltimore SALT Lakes. Need to Baton Rouge along the way he has papered the walls of police squad rooms with sketches of their cities, most dangerous criminals in collection of true crime stories Michael shares cases from his own portfolio. He describes how he connects with an impact course courageous victims and eyewitnesses from all walks of life using the,
descriptions. The author creates life like sketches of the assailants with an accuracy that is it's a quick identifications and captures sketch drop. Drawing a line against crime, provides readers a glimpse at some of Michael W Street's career cases and the significant role he plays in the criminal justice system. The book that we are profiling this evening, is sketch caught drawing a line against crime, with my special guest sergeant, journalist and author Michael W Street mix up there, but I'm glad to be on and glad and discuss the book with you and your guests or I'm sorry, your fans are absolutely now. Let's, let's start off Michael
I gave people a little bit of an idea of what what happens with this book and what this book is all about, but very, very, very little detail. So I think it's very important to the book. Why don't you give us your background yourself? You said you're you're a far, there was a police officer, but there is much more to it in your early environment. In your background, so tell us your background and how you came to want to be a police officer and how it came to be that you combined your love of art, an combined artistry and your police background and your interest in police enforcement to be able to combine these two things into what you have appropriately called sketch cop sure yeah. I grew up in a police household as long as I can remember.
Father was a police officer, eventually retires the police chief, but being is that we lived in the same town he police, then there were always police stopping by hanging out coming over for dinner or there at the holidays. So I knew all damn, I listen to their stories. I knew their backgrounds, and so I was pretty much inundated with it. But at the same time, what I like most kids, I had a variety of interests, and I was really interested in art. Is the kid and I just went through nothing really serious, going up and, as I got older accords high school graduation Kielo, I'm going to do with my life and thought about being an artist, and I realized that I would probably started us because unless you're really popular had some sort of nice type of arts,
you're going to be like everyone else, not always wanted to stand out somehow. So I went ahead and went into police work as a cadet just out of high school, because every every profile I took said you know you are helpful to people. You want to help people and you like being outside and that's a police work the ability to help people be outside, get that adrenaline rush, the first one there and the art was always there is. I went into police work an I'm not. I was often was enjoying their home watching television. I love to watch the news still there and I happen to see a composite sketch flash on the screen. I I like dropped my fork in like that that that that you could see that the look, not the thunderbolt, a lighting strike it. This is what I want to do this now. I can buy my love for art, with my desire to help people in public we're, so I started training and I still love catching bad guys and for Maine, not like the car chases. I like chasing people down alleys and study, all the cops and Roberts,
but I wanted to find a way to set myself apart from my peers, and you find another way to further help people and catch bad guys, just walking in catch some of the work people, and so when I started courses in police catching and and learn how to do the sketch the bad guys. You talk with people and in turn their words in the picture you know. I I learned that there was much more in terms of age progression, face a request. There's so many facets that I could learn that I could add to my friends at toolbox and again further. My regional off work, then. So so when people came to
you're asking? What do you do? I'm a police sketch artist, not this award, they didn't really. They could wrap her head around it. Okay, I'm I'm! I was gets caught. Okay, you, your police officers, got to that yeah, absolutely that that that little we're kind of stuck in the name stuck in have you ever tried to turn the title of the book. Your basic composite software product, my company, sells in training and such so but it's it's sketch cop is my brand and how I describe pretty much what I do in a word now I did talk, to the audience a little bit about that. It was a confluence of things that had occurred. Occured you one of the pioneers in this digital face imagery, but also you started off with with pen and paper pencil and paper, and when people do think of of of police sketches, that's what we do. Think of so that's what I did and told the audience that we would be. We discuss
sing with your book sketch cop. Would you provide a very good example and also uh how all facets of law, enforcement before D nab for some of the other forensic Sciences were discredited or or, as has happened, have been developed. So you talk about December 11th, nineteen. Eighty. D and you talk about getting learning a little bit about along the way about what not to do or how to do things. A little bit really so you were sort of thrown into the fire here with this Dwayne Mckinney, so may
tell us a little bit about this. I think this you said this was your very first, so tell us a little bit about this case and what you learned and teller audience about this case an how either Komposit drawing was an integral part of this case. Sure it was. My first I believe, is my first murder case. I always believe that, if you're starting any type of say you're, a construction or, if you're, building a house and a new building, birdhouses and dollar houses person and work. My way up the building houses, yeah and, and I
the way my mind works- and it was the same way with this. When I first learned how to become a the sketch artist, please got her house, you know cutting my teeth so to speak on smaller cases, you're misdemeanor type of cases and such so when the murder happened. I was zero six months out of the my first, please catch her at school, and you know I was just. I was trained how to interview people on crime scenes during the academy. It's a very, very different interview than you do with a friend the car thing you,
the police investigator, and so it happened when I was working on ships laden, uniform and- and you know I was the only traumatized people- and you know I was sitting at a big desk in in Uniform badge and gun and the judges like dripping with the story- and I didn't realize at the time because at the time you know is a police sketch artist. It is the name importer. There was all about the drawing all about the art. So that's why I was focusing on even though You know my my skills are fairly raw denim. You could draw a recognizable face, but not not the skill level I have now, but. But I learned along the way that it was more about the ability to communicate with people you're the ability to get them to trust. You very quick and trust you with sharing their fears and their trauma and just how they were scared to death are going to die or something that they happen to see a traumatic event like someone murdered in front of them.
I realize that you know all the authority, the trappings of authority, what it was like putting a large barrier between me and the person well you're wearing a you- know, an offensive weapon like a gun and having a baton and stuff, and in that this further your throat people up it was. It was much different than I do now: I've I've, obviously Ivy ivy ball, and so, when I develop this sketch actually developed he's got to that night. I think that the first one thought that I didn't quite know how to help them other than the process of getting this drawing down on paper and it and it did look like doing Mckinney and it did look like Herman Jacket, the first new bench Lee figured it done the crime. You know it hit both marks so to speak, and then, of course, there are able to exonerate going Mckinney after eighteen years in prison.
But if I were a lot since then in the end- and I think that anybody who believes it's about the art they might be partially right, not really like. I tell people now the I consider on drop the pictures all day. I go to Disneyland on the boardwalk, But if it, if I, if I make drawing drawing all about me, I become so heavily invested, Eagle wise in it, then it my drawing,
it's in. So I I it's not about me it's about, so I take great care use the take that kind of build a rapport with them to get to know them quickly begins to build that bridge and again and again and get out, because people do have live their short, catching stance. You have to get on what you can get them so to speak, and you get one bite at the apple so to speak, and you want to make it a good one, and so I do a lot of things differently now, in terms of the emphasis I played on the process, the people aspect of it more so than the artistic angle of it. Do you see the you talk about the goals of the compass it as well? What is the goal? I'm sorry. The call have a make a look like the person like not to resemble the person, doesn't look exactly like them, but close enough to worry,
You keep something and jump start something in there. Yes, some of some of our recognize an aspect of that drawing and associate with someone is there certain features of that. I noticed that it seemed that what you were trying to say was that there were certain. Features that were remembered by that witness- and of course you talk about the procedure- and maybe I should let you explain that procedure as well as how you move ahead. How do you start and how do you move ahead with the witness? I think people don't know any of the process whatsoever. Sure it all starts in the hand.
You know people coming to my office and I go and and and enter the room where they're at and I shake your hand, make eye contact with them and your dues myself and my name's MIKE Michael and I get your name in in in and around and start talking to them, and I the the first thing I do is develop before I have to find some sort of common ground, some sort of commonality. So I kind knows much like in about a lot of different things. So I can so I can more easily jumpstart a conversation. Hey. Maybe somebody comes in with, like you know, if you served on the you know, some heavy metal, rock band or a mom comes in with a keychain that helps thanks to the refund in little league. Uniforms are tuning in. If I find things that you know that I can quickly associate things, I know something about. It start asking them about that, and I give you the apple involved, one of the full time sketch artists there. I had a a poster hanging in my office called the bad guys. It was a character poster of all
the different movie and tv, the Sopranos, the godfather characters and such and people would come in and they may not be able to. Remember who the first President knighted states was, but they you know they knew these, these cultural icons, the gangster so to speak, and they started asking about them and start talking about Then we will talk about the movies and stuff like that, and you can see people start to relax and after about ten minutes to talk about it, they start relaxing and then we go in and start talking about the process explaining and manage in their expectations what what I'm hoping to get from them and what they can offer to Maine and and then once they once they know the ground rules. So to speak in the expo, caitians. It's almost like you can see it's almost like an air being let available, and you can see them just instantly relaxed and then they want to try because their biggest fear when they come into police station is this composite is going to get the wrong person in trouble when in fact it won't.
So then I have them it's a sexual them up to the up to the edge so soda when the attack occurred, and I leave the I will leave them of having to tell me the gory details, everything else and then I have been described the face in as much detail as taking on, and then I show them a book of facial reference textures to reinforce what their tell only because in memory the visual part, the recognition part, the ability of people to be able to show you versus tell you is always stronger, because people have different educational level different their ability to articulate is better in some than others, but they can all take a picture and show Right once they do that, then I sketched the picture. I didn't much like building a house, you sketch the framework out, then I let them do that
refinement process. With the your chance to tell me know, you know you need to change this or that's good, and once they get all done with that. Then we render it in a couple of times. During the final running your process, I showed them the composite just to make sure I'm not going off in the wrong direction and then, when I'm done giving one last look get their feedback, thank them for taking part in the process, because I want them to walk away feeling good about what they did I want them to feel like they were able to help. They feel good about it, and then I give it the detective and giving them any information. I think, might be relevant and not going in the next case and wait for the detector. Let me know they cut. They caught the bad guy. Now we talked about the you know: there was obviously a great injustice with Dwayne Mckinney,
And you did learn some things the hard way with that case, but you advance very quickly because you have some success with the compass drawings that you do. For police enforcement. You can do this in a timely manner and also that your your you said that there is no difference. Between a child or an adult, and in fact sometimes adults are easier to deal with in terms of illicit a detailed description, it's useful for a sketch. Why is that? Actually I actually. I believe that children be better way. This is in some cases and the reason I in the reason I say that, because, as we go through life with the and then become adults- and we we pick up, a variety of
your biases along the way and and things we like things we don't like and, and the thing is the color perceptions of of the truth, sometimes and or things that we see, and so you know very young children. Don't necessarily have that You know it it's it's, you know a lot of the mouth of babes. There's a young kid will come up. Is it that's? What kind of funny? Because kids, an elderly people have a chance to just pop up and say stuff in in no one hold them responsible for, because it's very on biases, very unfiltered, it's just straight out, what it is- and I use the example of a chair you know to a child- may will tell you to get three like insurance. Okay, it's got three like the back. It's brown yeah. It's got like a a big scratch on the seat. And an adult may give you partial description, then they may go on about how they they don't like Brown. They thought the chair was too uncomfortable and they prefer fabric
Wouldn't it then they start going off on tangents and stuff, and I think sometimes the the child witness brings. Information is still pure and unfiltered that I think that they shouldn't be discounted. Is witnesses. With all that. I just kind of introduced this while we're waiting for you to connect and that the it's so much discredit. I just had a program a couple weeks ago. When the making of a murderer making a murderer really highlighted that Any Princeton that was raped on the beach and positively identified Steven Avery, which was then. Totally exonerated after eighteen years, so In light of that, I thought this is fascinating, that you were able to get in eight. You know a compass it from. I did a detailed this. Option from a six year old. In light of all the discrediting of that eyewitness testimony so
I was a little bit more about go ahead, not a very good! I'm sorry total tell me, will tell you about about what what would you explain them the role of memory and accuracy in what you do as well, so tell teller audience what exactly so you ideas are and what you've seen regarding memory and accuracy in making that compass, it's catch. Sure I can tell you first of all that is much as people. Your demon eyes in marginalized. I would. Members be available and the storable that's that's correct. The people do Get it right, and I think part of the problem is with with eyewitness memory. Is it's not so much about what people remembered? Much is how
All we are able to retrieve it how we're able to access it because really, as a police, sketch artist, that's my job is to do memory mining so to speak. You know being able to take that memory in retrieve it and make it something that's going to be useful. Now It would be very easy for me to say, you know on the cases. Why didn't get it right so to speak, that I can blame on the witness, but it's not necessarily. Why done on anybody as much as the fact that you know you have to be able to evaluate the eyewitness properly and you have to be able to find ways of accessing in retrieving that memory. Now you know we
talk about protecting memory, but it's really hard because you know once that person witnesses a crime, they are going to witness hundreds, if not thousands, of states between the time of the crime and the time that the police showed them a lineup or the time they get in front of me is the is the sketch art there? Memories are going to are already going to be to stored in varying degrees. So it's not that you know to folks like myself to to understand how to retrieve that and different techniques to use to retrieve that is is just purely as possible, and you know sometimes you know you get right in you're able to hit a home run and other times. You people, just they just there's blocks and there's Tom other things that prevent you from getting it out of them from being able to and
in in the New York Raw and other evidence. At that point, just like when somebody says well, you know this this composite wrongly convicted somebody- and I say no, it's not the composite wrongly the composite, just a tool, it's more of a limitation tool that identification to one second log It identifies the person. I don't want to say that the artist is off the hook at that point, but really it's up to the detective to take that identification and gather ever the corroborated or exonerate that person in sometimes under the best circumstances. The officers go through all the steps
and later they find out that they are one step. Shorter information came out much later that they had no control up or they got lazy or sloppy and felt the pressure to have a conviction, arresting and, in short, cuts. The end of the wrong person get connected right. Now. You talk about a case in in in the book. Where you, a sketch that you made, is taken door to door eventually the original father in this in this case, and denies any involvement and then in the house a boy yells that, with his uncle Tommy's involved, so tell us about this case and what this demonstrates and your role
in this case sure it was a. It was a holidays in sexual assault case, and this is like I tell you, kids have got no filter, I mean they come up and say: oh hey, they say the darndest thing in this case, middle e, fluent trainer 40s, was home. During the day young and doctor door forces when you're home fires a shot gun shot through the ceiling to to get orders to gain compliance and in sexually assaulted, her in solar car, and so I went to her home. He- and I said I talked to her and at the conclusion of the sketch. This is terrified understandably, and she thought got to start trembling and pushed it away from Maine and jumped up and ran another room, and I heard her vomiting I mean she was she got Nada just got sick, I mean that's the visceral reaction, she had
so powerful that I knew that we were you on the right track. It's like on television is new people always tell ahead. They cried tears, are good team. Ok. Well in my business, if people have abyssal response like tag, ok we're on to something so the detectives took it door door. They found the car in the area just s of the city where I do the sketch and so they found the car. So they determine a certain radius and are going door to door sharing the sketch. So then talk to Dori young man came to the door. He you know the Texas says: here's the sketch and we're looking for this person. You do you know who this person might be. And he said no, no, no, I don't have no idea who could be and as it turns out, it was his brother and he was covering for his brother and of course, is you know. Kids are curious. Little kid comes by pushes through, but they won't know like. What's going on, hey that's uncle Tommy and so Uncle Tom,
turns out to be the person at the doors, brother and they're, able to identify him and arrest him and he's a very close match for the sketch. And how do you and how to police proceed once they do? Have that that it looks very much like that sketch what they do is they oftentimes will obtain a mugs not booking photo and or driver's license photo if they've never been arrested before and they put it in what they call a photo array of six pack or a photographic lineup, depending upon what region or jurisdiction you're. In essentially, they take six photos, one of the suspects, five of other people who look similar to and they present it to the eyewitness and then once the eyewitness. So it makes a positive identification often times that will give probable cause for officers to go out
an arrest, the person without a warrant an then interview them ran Dism interview them, collect whatever if they can legally without a search warrant, and sometimes that things that they they find during the rest will provide probable cause for a search warrant to obtain is rekar or home, or even things like dna samples or hair samples and things like that to further strengthen the identification, and I think that's where we've gotten in trouble with a lot of cases before DNA, because they based. Please arrest and conviction solely on eyewitness identification when in reality now they may be even then there's more and more evidence that they can use to strengthen that identification or, in some cases, exonerate the person right there before it even goes to trial. Now tell us a little bit before we get into some other. You know dramatic examples in
cases that you were involved with, that are high profile and very very interesting cases when did Facial digital facial imagery come into play. How did it come into play and what was its development and what much of a role did you have in some of that development as well? For years and years ago I mean when, when they first started, you're doing sketches of the suspect you know freehand artist, you know companies were trying to develop a commercial product that they could sell to police department. Not only to be, you know, help older adults product. There has been significant social contribution, but also to make money to make profit, and you know so. They started making these mechanical chips they had
Cellophane overlay, the different facial features on them, and you know people would come in they would. They would pick out the nose of the eyes and such and they would do the related to work on the fault of puzzle rooms like putting together a puzzle. And then they would. You know paper clip paper. Clip them together, make a xerox copy for a wanted poster or if the person of mustache, we use a grease printed. Drawing mustaches is very crude, but and then there were other mechanical assembly kit in England as well so England, United States where they were going to development. The first one was the identikit and the the fit over in England and so in the early 90s Late 80s early 90s, when you first start seeing computer software development new, take those feature and automate them,
so. I got in early started working for companies as a consultant in the 1990s, because I'd seen these product developed And I knew that it was inevitable that they were going to develop as a technology got better an impact, our industry and they would, you know, they'd, be putting they would be giving giving the ability to create spaces maybe taking it away from the artist and giving it to the line officers. The detectives, the support person who ever considered talk to somebody in figure out the technology would now become a composite artist, so to speak, or please sketch artists by proxy, and so my experience with the companies
that. They were well interest in making a profit, but they didn't know anything about the Arctic yourself or the the police, industry and or office of the interview. What was their whole pitch was with our software. You can develop a sketch in minutes mechanically, you cut, but the process itself they weren't respecting in terms of interviewing people. They were. They were just not even acknowledging any sort of training aspect, so I thought well if this is going to check my industry. I want to get in on it. I want to be the person driving wanted, the conductor in the train and not the person in the caboose, so to speak. So I started working as a consultant and I started training different agencies using the software,
sure, and there was a real. We had a certain point where there is a lack of development, and so I thought well, there is a point I said you know I'm going to do it myself. Then I'm going to go ahead and create a product that create sketch got face, set pixel composite system software. So I could properly discuss the training and have some influence in terms of how department's use this, how they perceived facial composites in their investigative protocols in their roles. Detectives- and I just figured. The more faces that are out there, the more people that can do it means more bad guys are going to jail. You know some artists, maybe really invested, say: look, you know my pencil is better. I can do better than than what the computer can do, but with the software tools we've developed in the partnerships with other
upward, you can really do what a sketch artist does with the with the click of a mouse, and that and eight to sixteen hour course that we put on, and so that's what I'm doing today, yeah and I'm I'm working on a on a on a new book. It'll it'll instruct officers won't work and personal and friendly fire students agreed how to use these tools. Hard work rules of software to create digital faces. In some instances you don't have to be an artist in other instances where you are an artist other software tool, compare tools and stuff you can use to quickly develop your own library quickly, use the stylist in the tools with the software to create sketches that look very lifelike, that you can more quickly disseminate good to law enforcement and the public right interesting. Now, let's talk about a specific,
the case that you include in the book- and you talk about uh- that there was interesting. Did you say the most dangerous offenders? Are these young offenders and I'll? Ask you why you say that an probably will be demonstrated with this story about the pimp style. Hustler in Marino Valley, California formed one thousand. Nine hundred and ninety three so tell us a little bit about uh. What's different about this, and why you think these young affair Here'S- are the most dangerous threat and explain this story for our audience. Well. You know there were a digital age and even back then it was all about video games and even back remember, my kid playing, grand theft, auto and mortal Kombat and some of the real violent games, and I understood that kids were attracted to the whole tops and robbers good guy versus bad guy in there. In these games are very violent and my only proviso was never going to play the game. That's fine! It's a game. As long as you don't act, it out work. Fine, you can.
Why it. But what happened was is a lot of kids these days and even back, then they didn't understand a between reality and the game so to speak, and so with all the violence that these kids are exposed to both and on television in their homes. In the video games and such they were so desensitized to violence. The. Once they. You know once they're out there. It was like the world of the video game and they realize that once you pull the trigger on a gun, you can't call the bolt back. You can't point to reset, but like you get a video gamer startled, and so what is the? What happens is I think the kids are prized most dangerous predators of all because they don't they lacked. In addition, the results have because in certain generations of adult you know there was talk
classes for misdeeds at home and when you're out in the street in these days, I could go on a long diatribe about the effectiveness of the criminal justice system, the, but the bottom line is that the kids are being held responsible and there's no consequences for what they do is what makes them very dangerous because they're, the thinker vessel, nothing, can happen that often times nothing does. What was different about the camp style. Hardware was, you know not unlike most games, there's a charismatic leader and in this case this this adult this charismatic leaders, priests Marty. He he set up again like a multi level corporation and then kids, how to do certain things, Turner Strike so to speak in make more money and they were talking about. You know, having iras and then taking the money from the crimes and investing it and put it in the bank accounts and such so it was. It was very different. It's very forward thinking for a gang even back then, but if you look gay,
models of stuff. It means a lot of motorcycle gangs. Back then were already investing in clubs and in water, their money and and honest businesses. So he was just he was just taking what he we've seen out there on Wall Street in different Legal and illegal gangs and stuff like that and in putting it to in whiling. These kids in the letting them think hey you crimes you're gonna make a lot of money. We're going to invest in your going to make even more money and uh that, with being bored and unsupervised and just craving excitement such it was a bubbling cauldron that just exploded in Marino Valley, and it resulted in the death of this young mother. Now, how was your komposit integral to this case? Well, you know,
they they use one the mechanical jets and they just you, know, weren't happy with it, and I think the person did a very good job again, planning out lack of training, lack of understanding, lack of knowing the process in such gotten pro and got them a product they weren't happy with. So you know they knew that I was in the area I didn't live far away and that was the loft works off a certain. They already worked similar with my work, so they called me and said: hey look. You know, we've got like twenty investigators working on this thing and we need to catch these people because you know the community demands that they're afraid these kids have already committed a bunch of other series of robberies and attempted carjacking such an so they said you know, take a crack at and see what you can do. So I interviewed the witness and she did such a great job. I mean she's very observant. She saw the shooting she saw the aftermath. She wouldn't call the police
the way she was from a police family herself. So you know she sat around the dinner table hearing the stories, and so she wasn't so and she was upset by what she saw, but it wasn't like the whole police procedure our second what's happening. Investigation was intimidating to her, so it made it very easy to connect with her in a format relationship into in the form of partnership to work through this sketch and as soon as the sketch hit the media and hit the news, they were getting some tips and they showed the sketcher on some use and they identified this person in the sketch is a thirty year old kid name, Chris Lions. It was eventually arrested and convicted for it, but I mean I've had
were they where I've had a composite gone. They've identified the person in less than a minute. Like thirty seconds, I had cases go on, okay, isn't going for a year before result comes up, so I think the combination of a good eye, witness the end of in the police, using the composite properly in terms of making sure got wide distribution, was with with great for having could quickly, I did and you talk about. Sometimes it doesn't happen right away. It doesn't happened within a few minutes. He talk about October, one thousand nine hundred and eighty six with a sexual predator, loose and fifteen different sketches were made with Kenneth George Wade, which was forty years old. Now. Why did he remain such an elusive, predator for so many years. Tell us a little bit about what you learned in
but you can include it in about Kenneth George Wade, sure he was smart. I mean he was. I mean these predators serial killer serial rapist there, smart people, I mean this whole. This whole notion of a quota dumb crook. I don't think there is such a thing. I think, there's careless crooks. I think cocky crooked, but that Kenneth Wade was smart. He had an idea of where he wanted to go. What he wanted to do. He favored large apartment complexes near freeways where he could Walker The targets fixes anonymously and then be on the freeway fairly quickly and and in another county quickly, and police, and when back then in the 80s, and we didn't have the crime analysis tool we have. Now
we didn't have people dedicated to you, know going to your crime scene and collating information and disseminating it to patrol officers and detectives like we do now. I'm also we didn't have the social media and in the internet. So if you put a composite out in Orange County, if the person lived in reverse, I can account short wait, did no one would know because he owned a business into Macula in Riverside County he did business in Orange County, but largely lived out there. So he got in he got out, he got away and No one was the wiser and of course he went to jail. You know between. So there are some cooling off periods between his attacks. It was just the fact that law force it just didn't make the length, because it was then that generational off work at where there we would re teletype. We would rely on going to meetings this.
Sharing information, you know a lot of people fell through the cracks then- and in this case it was girl, fashion, police, work that was a street cop that started taking the information and saying ok, I know that this guy has a tendency to get in one place and at some point- circle background come back in the same area again and that's what he did. He he patiently waited and George Way would be, and she was he was like he was like you know. Testosterone is like this. Had this an insatiable sexual appetite, he would he would go on sexual binges, and so he wanted this one sexual band and with all the information there will have this detect for the patrol lieutenant. Now I'm. Department, still Reese. He just they had an attack in Anaheim. He knew that he be.
Attacking again eventually come back running, just waited and his patience paid off you waited and all of a sudden is kind of storage. Weight again chase is on is able to capture him and after that, all the pieces fell together and ok, it's now for that to Anaheim or the police said, could be consulted with the F b I's a behavioral science unit, and they had called this guy or a ritualistic offender deny They did, and that was actually consulted with the LOS Angeles County Sheriff's department sergeant is trained by the FBI, is the behavioral And that behavioral analyst during my research in the book, I was able to reach yeah yeah former FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood, who pretty much wrote the book on sexual predator for the FBI,
He was one of the founding members of the FBI's famed behavioral science unit. You know the whole files, the lamp with John Douglas. A couple other other guys. He you he said that you normally have more. He normally required more information, but based on what I gave them yeah, you said you burn ritualistic offender. And in the ritual came in from, you know how he treated his victims and how he treated them as if they were girlfriends, and he went through this whole process, and you know telling and what to say and how to treat him, how to act and so forth, and even to the point where. He committed a rape in EAST Anaheim in Anaheim. The big cities give you assist context. It's a city about two hundred and forty thousand
people in in the center once county. It is over sixty square Mile, so it it's it's stretches of this project sites any self. She moved from the east side of the West side just to get away for several miles. I mean did too so one night you're a part of the left side. He recognizes during the encounter with her. It is worth to her. Was you know what to do? You know the drill. The drill was. The ritualistic behavior the whole girlfriend experience. So you telling me you know how good I am in bed and how handsome man, how you know how large my you know, a large. I am in in the this that the other I mean this year for his genitalia and stuff, like that. He wanted to kill popped up, appealing to me, and then you just be that guy, and that was part of the ritual. He also talk about that. He had three: it rape attempts in one day because
is, he really was if he was discouraged, he would run away if he had resistance, major resistance. He would run away, but you also talk about How- and this is important- is the escalation in the aggression and the violence, and even the daring Yeah I mean think about it here: here's a guy that is prone to walking around naked in broad daylight and is nothing wearing nothing, but a hat and a pair of tennis shoes you walk in front opening windows between apartment buildings is daring. People to sin and in in one case, is very passive aggressive. He would you know he'd be fighting away easily in in in during one attack yeah actually pulled a knife out and led the victim around her apartment at night. Point and didn't realize until later, but he stabbed her and I mean seeing realized later that you she suffered a small stab, a slight stab wounds, and this is
for the dichotomy came in with him. Is you know it really upset him? He hurt this person because you know he wasn't about that. I mean here was a guy that Hera or did you know that you would that night would look in the mirror at himself be discussed and starts screaming and stop the stop raping is very passive, aggressive, the detective, the the detective. In this case you know she sent passed away and you know she does have a plea for a trusted her with taking on this investigation and and and leaving it in. The best interviewing him and she did a phenomenal job, and you know they normally police department only. They want a swarm detective. Not a civilian investigator who doesn't carry badge and a gun and she did a phenomenal job.
In interviewing him and getting him to admit all this, and you know, had he not been caught. Who knows what might have happened because he was escalating yes and speaking of escalation. You you put in your book of about a case in April, one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven with a ten year old, named Anthony Martinez, and you worked with a couple of youngsters to make sketches so to make a sketch for this. So tell us more about this story and the heartbreaking story of the key witness and how you got that information to be able to make this sketch tell us more about this case.
Well. This is this is like every case. It's it's it's heartbreaking case. This lesson involves children, and I I had the privilege of the meeting Anthony's mother on a couple of occasions and- and I remember her telling me I was at it and about what national center for missing exploited children, John Walsh of America's most wanted, and I had a chance to meet with palestinian bikes. Is that answer He is in his auntie is ten years old. Eight year old brother, in ten year old cousin, she said they were playing literally twenty feet outside our front door. Kids are playing, we are adults inside the house, it was an offence portion of the yard in this serial sexual predator, child murder,
Joseph Edward Duncan, the third he rolled up in his car and in like most kids, a lot of these predators will use the whole key help me find my documents on my cat, like give you a dollar. He did that with the kids and Anthony was really weary. He was really good head on his shoulders. File accounts, great kid great, intelligent, any kind of wave the guy off and he came back around again and this time he peaked that uh, All their interests and got him outside the protected area found, and he pulled a knife out in the in in the suspect you don't go to bed with Duncan the third. He actually tried to have Doctor Anthony Day your brother. He actually was focused on him in after the jump between the suspect and his brother to save his brother's wife, though the predator grabbed him. Instead, IRAN, all
through in the car and it took off with him and to hear those kids. I mean I interviewed them when I was called and I I I think of the day after the deduction and I walked into this Wall- call room and there were police officers from. Every agency in that, in that, in that area there they were lining the walls they were. They were there to help and there was news media you know circus going on the parking lot and you know they had a couple. A sing with me was talking to the kids and I was on the floor. We're drawing it talking developing report every two minutes. It seemed like there was he's, say: hey you know when you get done with the news media wants at the news. Media Watson in I said, look want know what I'm not working on. Their time client for their new show. I mean I want to be compliant and cooperate because they're very important process. The news me
he is a very, very important part of the law enforcement team when it comes investigations like this, and so I said just let me do the process, and so it was very valuable in the fact that you know there's some information that came out to the detectors needed. But you know just all the kids get I just want my brother back. I mean every two days. I just want my brother back and it just can't help, but just rip your heart out and then, of course, in a lot of these cases, like the Samantha Runnion case, Dancing Martinez case You know any case where there's nothing more than I witness in a sketch art gets called in these cases where I've been called Are you almost feel like all eyes, the rumor on you like, okay, do something because at that point, they've got nothing. They've got nothing at all the work with the other than the eyewitness in
you and you, and you want to make sure you everything right. So you come over the good sketch, so the investigation remains. You know, keep that momentum and going in the right direction, and I don't wanna be the person to just you know just spins it off where it doesn't need to be now your sketch it. If I, what you said is it generated about thirty thousand leads, which is very it's amazing, but there also was a decision to make another decision to make another compass drawing and again tell us why, and what was the?
one. I I will. What I found interesting too, is that you talk about how the witness said they had piercing blue eyes. Why is color not such a good idea with a compass, a drunk? What color is not a good idea, because I I think that people have enough trouble, remembering facial features versus texture and color, and it used to be that when you reproduce color several times, it degraded the color. Of course. Now that we've got you know these digital programs and color printers and such that's not much of a problem. That's not even a factor anymore, but again, people picking the right skin tone again can throw the throw the investigation off. I mean people sometimes they'll illustrates say. For example, the illustrates blonde hair using the color yellow.
But that that that comic book blonde as far as I'm concerned, and that's that nothing to do with the hair color, so your people get really literal sometimes, so I just keep it black and white gray scales, but every so often there's going to be something that stands out I'll give an example, and when I was the sketch art in Baltimore for three years there, there would be african american eye witnesses come and say this person is black, but he had light green eyes and the african American community- that somebody's going to stand out so they were sometimes I would just go ahead and do this black and white drawing but include use Photoshop to you know include that the correct spelling of green fries same play with the Anti Martinez drawing what had happened was is going back to the thirty thousand tips Americans most wanted was, if it's popular is most popular. It is heights of popularity in terms of viewership and such
and cult following they had an artist that they work with, that they would bring it on cases to redo other peoples, work or sensationalized for the use of their show. They want it on this they wanted to bring their own artists in, and the police agency didn't necessarily want that they liked what they had, but they are getting tremendous pressure to bring this gallon because she had great success, and so the alternative was yep yeah, we just on their own artist out because they actually found another witness. Who was an adult downtown that describes me very similar they're thinking at the time was an adult. Witness is better than a child, witness which I wholly disagree with, but I
Look. You know what step away. Take your ego out of it, it's all about finding child killer. So, if that's, what they think is best netflix pending investigations, this point in time: let's just go with it, so the police were able to successfully hold out the Americans most wanted artists, but yet they couldn't hold off the FBI because there was a new witness so protocol. Why those proper to bring somebody else. Then, whether I agree or not. There were one then, when it was, the case was thrown back to the Riverside Sheriff's department, they're hotter stuff. Almost Start looking at all the evidence, all the facts. The reader read eyewitnesses and went from the FBI, drawing back to my drawing being the primary a drawing that they felt was most
bible. So they said you know we want to take another run at this, but we want to really get this out in the media. Put it on billboards, you're very keeps going back. This piercing blue eyes that this guy had so. Why do we do it in color? I said why not fine we'll do it in color, and so the idea was was to get this piercing blue eyes. In everything else. In terms of whether the skin tone was correct or not, I mean at the time the diy this is family, said: look, you know we had enough works on being our kids being exposed law courts is about to get your car ties were done. Your order can't re interview them, and this is like for five years, after the case- and I get that you know, people want to move on and they don't want that they have to protect their kids. I fully endorse their decisions, so the light that really light blue eyes. I illustrated in the skin tones and the colour that plaid shirt
wall very literal based upon a verbal description, but no eyewitness feedback thing yeah, that's that's correct. So what happened was? Is you know they put it out there, nothing happened and again, like the Like Dickens, George Wade case Joseph Edward Duncan. The third was a nomad. He was even from this area, so they put that composite all over the place because he was from the state of wash going to South Dakota. No one knew him here and if they then the people that did no I'm here we're very protective of him anyway, wouldn't have called the police, so it took the SLA sure that family in Idaho and the abduction of those children and his eventual capture In the interview with the police, where he tipped his hand it in disclosed that he was involved in the Anti Martinez induction a murder, that's the only real Yaya Han at first they were
thinking allow you know, maybe not, and they went and dug up the composite, and they saw my my color composites in notice. How much it resembling this, though we need to call the riverside sheriff department, and so what happened was when he bound Anthony with duct tape. He left a partial fingerprint on the duct tape, but because it was in the top of his son when the police roll your thumb, they don't always get the flat of your son, not always the top. So they got a search warrant. Did the tops of his thumbs compared then, to the latent prints left on the duct tape and made a positive match and now he's sitting on death row in terre haute in waiting could executed? Adjusting you talk about another case in Villa park. May one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven victim Jamie Pang, thirty three former exotic.
Answer gorgeous woman housekeeper very strange case. Could you tell us a little bit about this? What happened Villa Park Villa Park in the small city? It's it's right in the middle of the city of Warren's, where I grew up where I police for over thirty and nothing ever happens there? I mean it's. The kind of place with a corner gas station grocery store- and it's all big House the wealthy live there. You know, I think the worst thing that happens is you. People run stop signs and that's pretty much about it, and it remains that way today, and so we what happened was. Is you know? Janie Pang was the former exotic, is: SIRI beautiful young woman, mother, P, children, two children and Brussels of finance here in Oct Preneur and File council. She was living in
life tenure roses. Roller skated very striking woman stood up and they have very friendly everyone. Everyone liked her and will up there and so one day, there's a knock at the door in her housekeeper answered the door and here's a man dressed in a suit briefcase. Look professional, nice haircut, And she invite him into the home and and went upstairs to get this pang and with the same came down the stairs. He produced a gun and started chasing or keep the house. Housekeeper ran out, the door went through neighbor called the police and he chased Janey. Upstairs she tried to hide the closet. He fired one bullet who closet door and as bad luck would have it hit her right in the chest and killed her, and the Working flat, they call me I I came in and again there was. There was a huge deal and nothing I mean. I know I can remember all your working there were. There were
there were a homicide in Villa Park. I mean Kevin, Costner went to Villa Park, high school start in baseball there, and I mean nobody. It was just this bucolic just nice little place, so 50s pandemonium got the sketch very distinct hairstyle pencil, thin mustache, like Clark Gable, look like it was pasted on his face according to eyewitness, and so they found out their investigation that Janie Pang's husband was involved in some litigation and actually his law firm. You know several one thousand dollars and I was calling, but maybe it's twenty thousand dollars is so significant figure and a lawyer would do about for granted that twenty thousand that bill is paid to the firm. So when they went to the law firm with the composite the secretary looked at the composite,
Why do you have a picture of you know human conflict there? Lawyers have a picture of Randy is what they call it, and we have. We have plenty of pictures up in here, and so they got a drivers license photo again and notice how much he resembled the sketch right down to the part in the hair and the very squared off hairstyle. And so, if you do a fake mustache on the photograph of Q, Randy Mcdonald's, you would see that he very much resembled the sketch well furthering their investigation. They find out that sales and belongings home with a suicide notes, his wife and just disappeared, and take the suicide off the San Francisco Golden Gate Ledge and from there he embarked on this odyssey of hiding from the police shaving his head, taking an assumed name. You know looking in Abitur Aries to take on these identities. Your went to you
We talked for awhile. It was always one step ahead of the police whenever they thought they identified his location. He was out the door before they got. There eventually are able to tap in the social security system and found out that someone that a suspect with him was receiving social security check and they buy backtrack without there being deposited in a particular bank and they the woman was making regular deposits, so they went in the fall her actually, residents in Sherman Oaks, a suburb LOS Angeles and one in the house. We found it down in writing and resting brought him back for trial. You know, and he was acquitted and to this day, still a mystery if in fact he was the one killed. Somebody else since then, you have obviously, of course, she was murdered and then her husband.
He remarried and he eventually died under suspicious circumstances. That would finally attributed to an intentional over note and uhm. So there lies the mystery whodunit in Villa Park. Now, we've got time for but one more story- and this is a again this is a very, very strange story and talk about stranger abduction, which is not very common, but sometimes it seems like it's always in the news dominating so we're talking about Samantha, Runnion, Ann, job again another similar to the story. We talked about just a little bit,
but this story is going to be a little bit different, because I talk to the audience waiting for you. There's some law enforcement initiatives or pardon me assistance in terms of some of the software like rapid start, and so we can talk about that. So tell us a little about this heartbreaking story about Samantha, Runnion and her abduction Sure this is one of those cases that tests community resolve in law enforcement resolves and working. Today, clear yeah, your lawn Forsman agencies can be very territorial in terms of when it comes two investigations and oftentimes. It take strong leadership to make sure that people aren't stuff all over each other in that everyone is not everyone's working in sync. So to speak, and and not try to take all the credit you know in the prestige in terms of solving the case and this and that wasn't the case map running here. You see the doctor in July of I believe, was the
two thousand two is out playing with her playmate six year old models, working grandmas watching her and after and they wouldn't alleyway near their apartments and their approach by this person and who abducted Samantha again using the patented. If you see my little dog trick and I'll give you a dollar. You know these predators yourself on dup. So after she was abducted, you know the police responded and it views responses that should have been- and I didn't get to her until after midnight in by then she talked everybody under the sun, and I don't want to pry. They've got a really good description from her. Once I description came out, I'm sorry, the description was broadcast in the composite was released, the media. You know tens of thousands of leads start
The great thing about having the f b I come in and do an investigation is wall. They may be better suited to the foot work in terms of investigative, follow up on terrorism, cases and large financial fraud cases. If we were not geared toward homicides in and things like that, they have a tremendous, my of resources they can bring to bear on a case, they can give you availability of their crime, lab of all their different forensic experts. In this case, the new software called rapid stars and what rapid start would do is it would? all the other one. It was a relational database type of program where it would take all this all this tip information and collated in terms of giving it levels of importance tying it to other potential leads, and such it was a great organizational tool for long for him to David, to be able to sift through these tips and then follow them up and keep in mind whether five,
tips or fifty thousand tips, even if you catch the perpetrator in the middle of the investigation, the time you at the time you capture him or her. You've only follow up on twenty thousand tips. You still have to finish up and follow the other thirty thousand enclosed them out, because what you risk is the defense attorneys saying: hey. You never fully followed this up there. Twenty thousand tips that it could have been the real suspect and all they have to do- remember create reasonable doubt. So rapid start was a great way to to organize it.
The whole way that keep it keep everything in sync in in moving in one direction, and this case yes share. My call to time was again you, the the new sheriff, and you know he had great leadership capabilities a fortune with his judgment that got him in trouble sent to prison, but he was a great leader for that investigation. He kept he put a human face on it, hm and the human face he put on it in the personality, a force of nature that he put to it was back it up by all this technology is software and in lab work and such because the suspect in this case Hunter ABA from what the treasure trove of of information and in evidence behind,
not only did the I witnessed a great description of a partial license, plate the color of the car and was able to describe the composite, but where they found Samantha's body they've got book print tire prints. You other types of dna evidence. And then, ultimately, when they arrested him, you know with other evidence on him as well. You know scratch marks. Were she was fighting for life? What sexual assaulting her and you know, tear your tear stained. You know they found in his car with her dna on it. You know child porn of computer. The tennis shoes left shoe prints the tired left, the tire prints, the shoebox, the receipt. I mean it's just This cell phone information, you know in it was just the case, is wrapped up in five days. It was phenomenal.
It was in all the years of law enforcement. He was probably one of the biggest most massive manhunt. It was the best organized in terms of everyone coming together for a common purpose. A common goal of the family was strong. The families what with law, since everybody, did everything they had to do to bring this little girl home and unfortunately it wasn't enough. You talk about the massive response from law enforcement. You talk about, for Investigators assign three hundred sheriff deputies in one hundred FBI and then other officers from other agencies. This is national news. George Bush, ways in in it and contacts personally General Ashcroft to look into this. So this is how big a case
John and Reve Walshes Organization, the national center for missing and exploited one is involved, so you can't get anymore hyper Well bring it there. The FBI brings in Doctor Park Dietz from law and order frame to come in who had it. The Dahmer and John Hinckley Junior trying to get a grasp of this 'cause. It didn't get solve right away and, and the reward was offered a. Gran one hundred and fifty grand taking up to two hundred grand which interesting in your book, you provide comparative sketches with the perpetrators and many many are very uncanny. And this one is one of those very, very uncanny resemblance to the to the killer self uh yeah Very very amazing case in that all the people that were trying, like you say, to try to find this girl in the
the slim hope that she was still alive and then afterwards to capture these perpetrator and bring them to Justice you know- and and and that's what it's all about to me- I mean I, you know I I spent all over Around my life, I'm a law enforcement finding finding ways to catch crooks, because I I figured that the best way to protect people was to be able to find and arrest the bad guys in. This is just another way for me for me to do it, and I think that sometimes the you know victims get overlooked and I think it was you know, you don't like my book was a great way to you. Are someone of her life story into be able describe very human process several that we go through in terms of memory in terms of you know, discuss sketch artist involvement in how we interact with
All the other experts remember one time a woman asked and she said that you must get bored sitting here in your office drawing all day because, like when I was involved, I do like you know one thousand and fifteen drawings the we can just this insane amount of crime. I said you know it's not about that. It's about the people who walked in my door and their amazing stories of survival, their their tenacity, the things that they go through and they overcome and just their life story in your backgrounds themselves is just fasting. I'm just humbled to be apart of of all this, and it's it's just at the career I still involved with and dumb, sometimes I'm online the phone hearing, I witnesses and other times on their approach. I mean I find a I use anyway. I can find you know you know legally technologically to to tell help police department victims in the car. Further, my reaching into law forces to
People catch these bad guys and I'm not the only one, there's others out there doing it. I mean you see composites out there, all the time and people, people often ask you know, How do you do that? I thought you know the only way that I effectively explain it is to write a book about it sure yeah. Now you talk to you, you talk about your software company which in conjunction has a training aspect to it, because you sent it they both go together, hand in hand, and you also talked about your workload we're talking back from the eighties to do currently so tell us about the importance. Tell us about the need and tacos tell us about We just to give us an idea of the numbers, because, if you're doing that many komposit drawings. In a week the yeah that you have something that assists, makes that those komposit drawings quicker, maybe eat
here or more available to people less inclined to be artists, first and police officer and yet police officers first rather than artist. First. So tell us about this: need the importance and what kind of numbers we're talking about an a little bit about your your company in the training and preparation for this occupation. Sure first, the numbers I think value that I just kind of that the other day. Actually, in the last four years, I've produced over four hundred composite sketches on these cases, ranging from homicide, sexual fault, non fatal, shooting, agree outcome to the docks and such of the over four hundred in a four year period, averaging over a hundred a year us by that one, the busiest composite sketch artist me in the United States I was, I was pretty much do
doing the same amount of work that artists, Nypd and Houston police depart doing it as much or more on when you're on a yearly average. So I've been pretty busy. I think there's, I think, there's an important for it. I think that the outside of the dna- you know your your dna is kind of taking center stage as he should, because it's it's a very you're, very good technology were good crime fighting tool, but I think, what's happening with composites now they think, with the proliferation of cameras in terms of surveillance, cameras affect the building, and you know people cellphones, and in thanks and several of the comedians working like that. That officers are detective fielder. What we need to do composite sketches, which I don't necessarily agree with
but I think that there's instances where these bank cameras and other cameras catch a person's life very well, so there's no need to do a sketch. Sometimes the image is still blurry and taken from an angle that nobody would be able to undo them, but detectives still rely on them. So I try to encourage them to put a composite, from eyewitness description. Next, to that surveillance photo, and not only are people going to recognize the face, but they're probably going to recognize the purchase posture. I think their clothing or wearing the way they stand or whatever it's it's a very powerful combination, and I think it's like anything else that I think the every so often you have to go back and re market and and show the value of these things, because
you know: police retire. They get promoted. New people come in, they don't always pass on the information to them. So my goal again in writing the book and setting up the companies to remind detectives and people listing or people in entering forensic science careers, and if you can't draw you can still make a positive contribution by you encouraging your agency to buy a facial, composite software and hopefully mine, get Scott Base that and then engaged in some sort of training, and I think that it's important for law enforcement agencies to have this option. So if they don't have an artist on hand, they have people trying to use the software, because no one can predict when he's horrible crimes are going to happen.
And as these child abductions have shown, when all you've got is eyewitness in an important heinous crime like this, you don't wanna, be digging around looking for local artist or who might be drawing or who might be retired or whatever you wanna. Have your own house person your own tool available to say: hey, you know what bus stop. The software looks, announces eyewitness and let's get a sketch out, and so that's what my company does is you know? Not only do I consult on cases myself and provide a remote drawings, I actually have somebody typing from Romania is addicting for crime. One main link up with them online computer and draw composite, which I can do. I do composites on a regular basis for police department, back e to remote, Look up and I rolled the local agencies in the southern California, but if they don't need Maine and they want software, the solution that I'm glad
The whole training online in person all of the software supporter and give them what they need to. They can turn out some really good faces and catch some really serious criminal right. A very interesting, You know the the thing is with sketch top two and then maybe it sounds like a little bit like what we went through. Is you know the process of of sketching, but mostly your book is really about these dramatic cases that you were involved with and so I think we we touched on a couple of them, but for those that we're listening, there are some fascinating stories that were again the appreciate, wasn't caught for a few years, but the the development of the sketch and then the importance of that catch, sometimes not immediately but then later on, very dramatic and expressed in these some of these stories that you have in your book so very, very interesting.
I wanted to ask just one last question in that it seems that at least just from me is that some of the witnesses, even though they were traumatized even though they were young, led to these detailed descriptions that we were able to make this compass at drawing and successfully be able to make. Can arrest or conviction as a result is part of, or my just looking at this wrong part of it in that a person can member can remember certain specific details. God knows, or you mentioned, hear, style, distinctive hair style or the. How important are those details? like eyes and mouth features and how a mustache would say was described as in your book
certain ways. So you drew it that way. How important are some of those feature. Years later, in not so much the accuracy in that the Kompass it looks exactly the same, but that those specific details like eyes and ears pronounced features that we would have, and we would see. More importantly, I would think is that part of the the value of the opposite more so than the accuracy of that Komposit. I think it tends to add to the unique. Love it and when I say that, as I always ask people at the outset, is there anything distinctive, but this person there would set them. Apart from a similar looking person on the street,
And is it also yeah the person like really like guys, you know, and that may be the starting point for so we you know, get nothing else, but the big guys correct. Then, then, that's a distinct feature. You know, maybe that the person has a really large ears, like typically people are after him. Is it I always like to laugh because it's a sixty four thousand dollar question. What is weird, look like now. I didn't really notice yet they can tell you that you know the person had you know certain style or you know some peace will tell you they were looking away and they didn't see certain things, but it's trying to get them to focus on the faith in their mind before they looked away to catch these things. But I try to I try to pick on something that's going to be. You know. Distinctive to them that they remember to capitalize on is an anchor point to build around the rest of sketch around
yes and we we get out of it. We've established a with a thousand court after a, but we had doubts according drug composite. I just can't help line really well, so you know you're in a different time zone. So I again I apologize your listeners and Yourself or for the burning up about United ten minutes of your show where you're gonna call, but the the cool thing about this is that you know from this book: you're free for your listeners out there that this we've all been taking some of those cases and expanding on them becoming their own books. So if they were really interested in that particular case, the chances are it's going to develop into its own book someday soon? Yes, yes, yes, because their standalone, their fascinating cases. That would make you know four, five books out of this book in terms of telling the in the entire story, which you obviously have access to as well. I want to thank you very search for coming on and talking about this Michael for those that might want to say contact you or fine,
more about your work. I know this is a wild blue press release, a publisher that Steve Jackson and Company an with great great other grade authors as company on this publishing company as well. So tell us a little bit about that and where people might be able to contact. You ask questions to do face but you have a website, tell us a little bit about that. Absolutely wild blue presses, my publisher and you mention Steve Jackson, he's been a great mentor and everyone is that companies in very supportive and I'm just privileged to be part of their stable of seller, Onstar, true crime, authors, and so that being said, I have an office space there and you access, my book to purchase my book on their website or you go to Amazon for Realtors access to the Kindle form and in paperback form I do have a website sketch cop dot com www dot
get out dot com and I'm also on Twitter at Scott Scott. I'm also on Facebook, Michael W three diskettes copies my public page, and you can also find me on on link. Then I'm hoping I'm hoping that I'm forty, what sorry been Instagram account. So I can start. You know posting drawings, every danger, but it's saying that you know visual painful stimuli, people, but you know keeping up three social medias like the website is the good a job until it's also, but people are free to contact me working on my email address MIKE was cash crop dot com in this global website, and you know by the. Look obviously now I'll be happy to answer any questions that people have of Maine. You follow me, I'm really good about getting back to people. That's part of this whole thing. I love the the fan, interaction
I really enjoy. You know getting messages from people and people are interested in the job at all interested in my career. The case is, you know how you got started, you know, what have you done and is it just? You know also I'll go wherever they want me to go. I just you know I won't get too personal shoe size or weight size and things like that, but you know the things that, in terms of other things that the crimes of I'm an open book, and I welcome their inquiry well I want to thank you very much MIKE for coming on and talking about sketch cop, it's a very, very uh, fascinating book and Phil Chock full of amazing cases, but also just this very, very unique perspective that you bring the law enforcement and of forced to this program to murder, just a completely different perspective, very, very fascinating, want to thank you.
Much and you have a great evening and hope to begin to talk to you real soon. Thank you. Thank you Dan. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can I. And now I found from Geico Motorcycle it took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online, be the cheetah would be the cheetah and learn your animal isn't the cheetah. But the far appealing blobfish come on to add insult to injury. You could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance lawyers. He all about being there day in day out
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.