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the you are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker d t k every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer, true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author, then as a family the good evening.

Solomons extensive writing about TED Bundy, which has produced six books, has become a sort of magnet over the years drying out. Many people were part of the bundy story, but of otherwise kept a low profile over the decades, and these first person contacts continue to this day. As such. This is the first book in a new series of books whose aim is to bring new revelations through the public about Bundy, the victims, the murders and the almost murders that failed Bundy. For one reason another this first offering ted Bundy the yearly journal volume one contains a great deal of never before public information from a number of women who barely escaped his grasp. It also reveals Bundy's geographic hunting pattern. after his arrival in salt lake city utah on September nineteen. Seventy four, a surprising discovery the author never expected to make but did- and it all came about through the valid testimonies of the way You encountered him during this period. The book also delves into what

the author believes is perhaps an accurate, albeit conservative, estimate of how Women are young girls, bundy approach, but failed to adopt during his year. the murder. Each new volume will focus on particular aspects of the case where further investigation is warranted there. still unknown out there and, as the author has experience where unknowns exist, the possibility of discovery awaits the book there were featuring this evening is ted. Andy the yearly journal with my special gas journalists and other Kevin am sullivan. Welcome back to the programme, and thank you very much for this interview. Cabin am Sullivan. Well, thank you. We always have a good time when we'll women together on your show- and the same will be today with this seventh programme. The first book in a new theory on TED Bundy, lots of new info there, Absolutely. This is highly anticipated. As usual, everyone can't get enough of information about

only because so much more as you say so much more to uncover, as you are testament with this. As you say, seven about Bundy? Now, let's talk about right away in the very beginning you talk about that. You were fortunate enough with your very first book. Let's talk about how this seventh book came about by talking about the first book, the bundy murders a comprehensive. free- and you say you were happy- are you were fortunate enough to work with many of the people involved in the case, including the top investigators, jerry thomson from salt lake city utah, Michael J fisher, the colorado investigator russ renault and randy everett, idaho investigators, Robert decouple, the washington state investigators, an ira, beale bountiful, utah detective, who worked karel de ranch case and don patch, and the first attack before the tell has he police depend from an in the florida, Kai, omega murders and bill hag Meyer, they retired fbi agent.

From the be asked you unit who became very close to bandy during the last year. and spent as many as two hundred hours intervening bundy before his execution. It would be from these sources and in depth interviews that followed, that new and never before published information surface about several of the murders, along with new general information about the case from that decision sprang. Five additional companion volumes tell us about this. five companion volumes following the bundy murders and and when they reached the yeah sure well, you know I I considered my work on monday- would be one and done with the Monday martyr as a comprehensive history. I just I mean that's a full biography. That was the full treatment of the murders. It was a long book too. items two and a half years. The only love,

sources from from alarmed different states and she? Ah thank god. I was able to come up with a lot of new information that had never been published before in any of the other books and several of us several factors have that inspiration, I was no information about the murders that were there verifiable and told me bounded. The doctors, though I was there, was a great It turned out to be a great decision for me to do, open the monday and write a book, but that was it came out in two thousand and nine and I was done with money except for your doing. All gas whenever or maybe writing on article a blog you really want to write another book about funding, but in twenty fifteen one of my close contacts with the head asked away- and that was the rain fargo I'll, never got to interview lorraine for the bali martyrs, but we became friends afterwards when she got back to make an hour

what about lorraine in the bundy murders and in fact it was in that book. They don't like to. I don't like to speculate about things, but I had a couple of things about Bundy in the night that he abducted. Cathy parkes was a couple of things that I speculated about that might have happened and when I talked to Lorraine she contacted me a year after my book, the money murders were published. She was able to confirm that banana weight, but she passed away. I hated the superbowl and she quit. She was gone and another of my contacts. I can say it at the time it was Gerry Thompson. He had been entering into his estate the measure for a while, you know I talked to jerry I could see that, and I said I got to thinking about that thought. Well, you know if I'm ever going to write a companion volume that really I thought it would be the companion by one and then that would be done, I said. Well, maybe I should do it now and so I went out west. I retraced my steps. I went to some new places that get to what I was researching: the money, martyrs and lo and behold-

I was finding out a lot of new information about the case that sure did add to my previous book and it kind of like expanded it and that's what that's what these volumes will do, and so, anyway, that book came out in two thousand and sixteen called the trail. Ted Bundy. Well by this time. A lot of people already knew me from the Monday mars. That book has been a good, steady seller. Ever since it came out an eminem, a documentary or something the sales will really shoot up and then they'll stay We want to go back there, but it's always been a good seller. So I know people were getting my book and reading it so that, along with podcasts, I would who, along with television, please I would do that. I was. I became like a magnet for people who carry these bodies.

please but had never really talked about. It was the same thing with lorraine. She said she avoided by me. She avoided the talk about. Then I was the first person shimmer contacted would written about Bundy and she said it's time for me. I think it can be like a catharsis familiar to read it. We're going to talk about it and then later one on lorraine, friends and a woman that live inside and all will gather arms as well. She contacted me and she said I have lived with this for years. I think I want to just I've heard that you write the book in the right way sensational in your writing. You talk about the victims a lot, so I'm I'm going I read your book, she did and it helped her, but the bottom line is a lot of people started. Contacting me who had experiences with been the enron and with Bundy. Now there were people that contacted me that didn't because Bundy was then the geographical area that they were in at the time. for there were certain things that they share, that were strong red flags to me by

but on the ones that I ended up putting in my companion by biomes? They just didn't, have any red flags, and you can sure tell when somebody is telling the truth, and somebody is not some of these people that were trying to foster these bake images and run in the body. They had these elaborate stories, but others will have Well, I ran into him. He was driving this page. We got here like a really nice guy. He wanted me to go with the car is a sunny day, but I just didn't want to I never thought about again until is based are getting the news in the papers, wow. That's the guy ran into basically a nothing story, but what makes it something is that they that they really ran into him, which over time can tell you things about Bundy and as well in particular, has an even better when he got will I thought about that. A lot more cause. A lot of information came out about his onion pattern and it not only showed where bonding was that first month. He was. a new job,

if a women, but it also puts the death, in my opinion, a myth. It's been around for a long time, a myth that I didn't even mention the bundy murders, because I never really believed, but I expanded a little bit and talked about it in the trail dead money but anyway. So all these people kept coming to me and my files, you know It ended with information here and their testimonies here and there and I thought well, you know. Maybe I should write a third book, because I've got these says Mollison and I can go out and get more testimonies and find people that were there, for instance, that, like I mentioned in the buddy Monday murders but had ever interviewed, and so the third companion

I am came out. I swear people laugh about this after really ally. Do each time I put a companion, buy him out, like the third one was the Bundy Cyprus. In that book I presented a lot of I had these new testimonies, but also presented certain parts of the record that I have always found so interesting with commentary and like backstory for me, so that came out and everytime. I put out a campaign by him. I thought were good. This is going to be. This is going to be the last one right, and so it just went on and on and then of course you know, then the fourth book was ted, Bundy's, murder mysteries and again people had contacted me what these really interesting stores and funny, because when I just every time a book is published, I like to think about a week off and don't do it. If they accept to buy gas or whatever or maybe radio interviews I go. I just the books were released. I watch ads too and I just to relax a little bit, and so as soon as dead bodies, murders, mysteries came out. I think that was in two thousand.

Seventeen eta contact me facebook friend by Michael, ran, his name is Michael Lionheart and Michael Salem said: have you ever thought about doing and encyclopedia, media like the one the morris, I said. No, I never have, but he realized that just two days ago they just released a book of mile on Monday and he said yeah. I said I can't get into that right now. I said y'all know it kind of sounds kind of good, but at the same time I can't even think about that. He said: well, let's put it on the shelf for now he said I would do it myself, but I am doing similar things with pertaining to the american civil war, and I said he said I just don't have time for it. So after a couple of days I contacted my publisher. I ran across them while they might say well we're really not interested in that and say, okay, fine, but they said no way. it's a great idea. You should do it, so I did it and it was a fine experience, because I've got to talk to some.

Estate reporters and dig out information on them. Who are writing about these women that were disappearing? Then it was an interesting book to write and was it was published. I thought wow, it was a great idea, then I ended it with the enigma of ted Bundy and I thought, after writing about, I think, the exact total number of pages as one thousand four hundred and eighty five pages after that many pages on a case. That really should be it I'm really set all I wanted to say and then just a couple weeks after The book was released. I had three people contact me they all three might have been valid, but one lady had gotten the information from her deceased aunt and she didn't have enough. So I said well, thank you very much, but there's not a lot. I can do with that right. The other two women turned to be real added subjecting and we talked, and I asked him very explosive turned out to be really really really good people witnesses there had. Actually I contact with himself

to myself. Well you! What am I gonna do with these? These are really good and they need to get out there on the printed page, so they'll be there for future researchers, because you know these people that were involved in the case are a lot of them are passing away now, there's a jury trial. Dawn on homes is gone. allows born alluring bottles and god knows who else is god Then I don't even know about so and beyond, was getting any younger. So I thought to myself. You know what I'll ask my publisher. You may not be on board with this, but maybe I could write a yearly journal of these new testimonies that come in and, of course, since this book's been published, I've already got one from a retired circuit court judge who had a run in with someone who was likely Bundy and I'll. Add that to the next journal, but I just said the publisher: I get these stories, I think they're bellowed I'll write about them and then maybe in the journal of durban too. Maybe some aspects of the case that need further, maybe study. I can do that and dumb and I said: do you think that something that you'd like

The immense tom had already been writing about just writing about anyway, so they said yes and I You know it's not going to be as long as a normal book would be anywhere from two hundred and two hundred and fifty to three hundred pages. It's not going to be that it might be since I'm doing it nearly maybe one hundred and fifty page or something like that, and they said yeah I mean yeah, that's fine, so they came up with a title ted Bundy, the yearly journal. I think it's good to look at it like that, because it's something that, as as long as these tests on his becoming an I'll, do it and if it's every year or every year and a half or whatever it doesn't matter, I'll, keep putting it out there, and you know katherine ramzan- is a friend of mine and I'm you know she even invited me to speak as a serial killer conference at duquesne university. So we've been friends for years, she's, really a great person actually she's, really great and she's so knowledgeable. She always blurbs my book she's.

always been kind enough to do it. I can't they grandma, but she said something in the blurring of this latest book and is absolutely true. love how she words that I didn't come up with anything like this, but she said we can still chip away at his secrets, meaning monday secrets and man is exactly what happened with this book the yearly journal is because of this. The thing will talk about a more later, but the very fact that it just appeared out of nowhere because of the testimony of people because of one testimony susan, when I was alive. The last book I wrote, the enigma of ted Bundy were true: Bundy was hunting near his apartment. The first month he had got there late into the month or possibly very, very early october, like maybe the first but likely in late september. and then the new testimony about food aid

the other lady lived in that apartment and Bundy came to their door and we'll talk about that more classic bundy the language he used. He was looking for another woman that lived there were no. I was never searching for any of this and yet because of certain things, starting to feel like a pattern in a puzzle this this one dropped and this one dropped and another one dropped, and then that started rolling out this other pole. Sorry- and it was just amazing to see this come about, and it's like katherine said, we're chipping away at some of his secrets that he took the only bundy knew that he was hunting close to his apartment, which, if you're going to be a psychopath and try to abduct women, I would think cause he a normal. I would thank you need to go on the other side of salt lake somewhere. for if you do something stupid blowin somebody says you they won't be in your area, but not now. Finally, started hunting in his were real backing.

And now they had spent over and so has it that he couldn't have been doing this other thing which will talk about later. But this is what drives me all that, like right now, I've just started a major book on the killings that the nazis did in world war, two And it's gonna take me a year. You have the right. She'll do the journal and as long as people still give it me information as long as I think, berber aspects of the base data be written about as long as we can still chip away at bundy secrets. I am committed to doing that. So anyway I can embrace you avoided. Yes, thank you. Let's get to actually right did when you talk about bit. Bundy's failed abductions. But you also talk to people like Michael holmes, led the criminologists yes and you talk about the formation at Bundy gave about himself. Of course, in the third person yes said, I talk about his knee it or a need to repeat the killings,

again and again, and the killer serial killer loans to stock weight and kill, and we as killing, gets better at stopping the weighting in the killing and Bundy spoke of the force. Yes to become so strong. And he talks about a case where you mention a case where the force wasn't that strong and he was in his redemption phase or even the least try not to not to re offend, not to kill again right. You talk about also the failed abductions and many of the people are so aware of of bundy's, because body didn't want it. talk about the teen victims, but you say that he did he attacked to twelve year old, and so you talk about it. But a half dozen other won't even so tell us about also the idea that for all the women that he may appeal, which you estimate and others? as the major thirty plus you say, maybe even as many as forty. Yes,

but in order to be able to approach those people successfully and then adopt them. You say that there have to be mathematic many many approaches and any new show examples of that is so tell us of examples of that to show the magnitude of the amount of approaches that ted would have to do the s too while he was on his hunt. Where you know I've been thinking about this case from the last sixteen years I mean, is it just a daily it's every day and after all, the various things that have to add up In one these life things that you didn't talk about it, everybody wants to know how many people and they killed nobody bilbil Hagar at the end he said I was now in the movie DC norman God bill pressing him on that, isn't it by the goals that are getting an egg market the out that again- and you know that

say, occur wouldn't be in there. She- and he said I don't know how many he said they just all get confusing adults now, so you know some people say. Can I say it's almost got to be around the law. for these. But it could go fifty or are we don't know? Even he doesn't know, but nobody Usually, nobody really is, as ever, the alarm pose the question at least publicly rembrandt as to how many close calls were out there. I know the wind Bundy went to ogre. Tello idaho on may fear they drove up is astray, shot out of salt lake hundred eighty miles and got up. There was cold there's something I found out. I was writing the buggy words. He d, never gonna call it that they are in all day he got room at the there, the holiday and which is to the right of apathy,

and you get into the city of pocatello and it's not in the downtown part. But it's like a suburban part and he got off there and then he went across underneath of our fifteen after he got his room and everything and he went to the university there in pocatello any other any hundred all day. Anyhow, the end of the night and when they ask him about with anybody else, I have noticed. Who else? Maybe could you have attempted? the dog is well a lot of the abductions failed before they went anywhere and the women will have no knowledge of that for we know knowledge that so he did it then he was caught up in a women only Dormitory arise at eight was borne by stories anyway, it was call up, thereby a male security guard. And he shouldn't even be in there. So he asked what are you doing in years along? He just made up some lame excuse. They said well I'd like to see some identification

I said I want everything on me since you have to leave the building right now insulate. We pull him out now. When I found out, for the money mars cause. I've got a file on, they cover one of the twelve year old sea murdered the next day on the six wet I all day and into the night, and he can't god only knows how many people we approach and one of the reasons why he really couldn't get any women. He wasn't as familiar with the area, but that's not really what was storing him I view it was, may body was colder than normal. Winter was still unwilling, a completely relinquishes grass ended. It would not go in there Snow showers on both days and he was there, it can be sally, but there was still some snow showers coming in and stuff like that, and it was cold in this colder than normal. So you know he just didn't get anybody. God knows how many people was at ten, no

began. There would be two law he's gonna hours and hours trying to obtain a better. I would say that easily in bogota fellow he was probably for me: Thirdly, the forty and ass easy I'll. Do it you're asking women here and there to help you? It's already been proven that when he was on the day I'll skip over to care and gamble, where he got her on the evening of january, twelfth nineteen, seventy five at the wild boar, then he had already admitted hey mind other people that he had been hunting there. I bet you told me, I didn't is the money murders, but my treasure said and then later in the hard, bald headed it too. Am I conveyed by arms but bundy atolls fisher. He said I was using credit is like a briefcase in the city of ass earlier in the day and dropping it. And to get women. Doubt me any add one by one and with one particular woman that I've got the thing on. But she's

You wouldn't go with him so it before you got we'll give us down an aspirin itself hunting. But then he said- and this was my words- is that I went up among lodges and if you go there today, there's a lot of city life is there and they want. what in is kind of like all the way up the hill at the tip end of it, and if I can be locked, if not looking carefully you're going to miss it, in another wide self howie there. I don't know about that. where he went. But here already- and this was- I guess got gamble around all I'd, say around seven thirty p m and he was hunting at around them. Cool area, the outdoor pool area, the wild would bring this out in the Monday murders. Second edition actually how he got gamble and- and so he was trying to get the attention of another woman so and then turn camel,

I saw him from the balcony and you gotta remember that, as I said, the bundy murders the steam coming off. The pool is because its so called it is an outdated pool, that'll carlinville people and they will come up spread out. You'll, see people and whatever but care was able to spot him, he looked like he was needed, help and being a nerve. She offered a rapid, and that was a fatal mistake. and so they went out to the sideboard that's one. The assault gotta reduce, beat idea, but how many people did he had once he went to my people? Women did he trotted get to go with him after he failed in aspen some hang on grudges, celebrate case before hearing campbell offered God knows so, there's lots of people in every other s. Funny I dont hitchhikers No, because Bundy was a planner, a martyr for the most part, he was so calm and he stopped growing a lot more than people realize, but he also was

opportunist. So when I picked up a hitchhiker, that's a bouquet! That's going to be an easy kill, and you know the if he was in the movie keller, any almost always was there was a rare occasion when he changed his mind didn't. But there are so many people out there. So I came up with an estimate that, if Bundy even abducted on the lower et, like thirty four thirty five thirty six people you're looking at did you just say he had to talk to at least ten people for every person that he was. able to adopt you're looking at a number of three hundred and fifty people, so that that's a lot of people too. or bundy and not go with him, and they never had any idea. What a devilish situation They were looking at when they were talking to himself as a lot it before it four be over. Four hundred there's only god knows because, for example, he handed on he to four days civil wars and say college, but he didn't get

susan ran court until around ten fifteen, ten thirty unable seventeenth suddenly bought some. How many did he talk to that afternoon and all The other day were fairly got, no one, how many? What thirty forty fifty more? We don't know we don't now, so he had contact with a lot of women that he intends The girl, but they were just- will not go with them for one reason or another, and they got that one lady. There did follow bondage to his car at centre workers day college, in our lab. We always talk about in the worst but actually went to see. Debbie I see, for the second was the dream, tat money and at the time in that area, that is not a parking lots and new buildings and adult, thereby at the time when do this, they had to leave the library turn right. In the native across a little man made bridge between a little,

ground building called a blue conference centre and the library, and then they would angle often when the angle of your body, he never if anything, the transient art has been obvious on the most remote area on campus about one hundred and fifty feet from the library no buildings around. As you see today, there was only one building that was called blackhall today. If you look at black hall from the air, it's too long, buildings connected, it looks like an h shape from the air, but back then it was this one long building. There were just like right next door, the library and between the two was a little round place called the group conference center with this unusual little tin roof and he walked across as many breaks. Then they turned left, angled left off of that and and they walked into the ever increasing darkness and body parts right under me, a railroad russell, there was bounded by tallgrass

was rarely travel by students, and so we pick the perfect place. No one lady went with him when she started to deal very suspicious of ham and weapons. He did was- and I say this in a number of my box- but by lay like a lotta killers when he was when he says that he had somebody, it was our going into that altered, state a murderer and if you look at the testing, We have this one lady who survived his an encounter with the ets. it'll be a c. She said when she was talking to him. I mean his eyes were normal. He just he didn't look weird at all, but as they were walking to his car, she a more dynamic cheese and his eyes were really weird and ass, a carlyle about that in writing the money. Where else does I want to come and get it right? What happened these islands it was a lot of women. Every boarded the need that right before someone attacked them assault on them. They had this

change in their eyes and it? What is it? I think it's a neural transmitter change, but in any event it's getting into that eldred say so where do the martians budget? Now she got a police car and shoot. He asked her to get here, and she said no and winning looked in the car, and this really bothered her. She said that the passenger seat was out, and he would often do that. So we never delay of an unconscious woman in there and throw a blanket over her, but she was able to get away from him. So we know how we know how Bundy did thanks within his attempts to abduct women, but she got away from it. So how many did he really has said? Obviously, over a period of two days, I think forty to fifty would be a conservative estimate that really would run into a lot of girls by just blew him off. I'm sorry, I can't I gotta go and when any one, then he spent hours so there's a lot out there, even today that have never come forth a method

In the light of these women tell me. I never went to the place because I mean it was, and it was almost like a nothing encounter again. As I talk in the box there was a lady from Oregon state university and when I'm writing, when I'm talking there are a couple years ago, no one ever that was after what year and she didn't really knows early seventies and she she went back and maybe you could find out something and she said to me- I contacted me back and she said Nineteen, seventy three but my mind- can play tricks on me. She might have said nineteen. Seventy five and I said to her then and listened to so sweet. She said, as she started the conversation I am absolutely in mrs Bonnie cause. I got a good look at him. I talked to him. We exchanged words and I remember what he found that, like I remember his face now as air was and she's, not I'm just I just know it was him and as for the gala, was here's what the gunnar was she's like reading

something to steps out in those three he's moved slowly through the camp of the almost bombs in it speed up here. Aesop's, while those window the bastard side, talk sore, they exchange pleasantries in all its guises. I'm sorry! Whatever and is overlooked. That you must have said something like is new on campus, but I'm pretty sure it was some kind of excuse. I can't remember exactly what he said other than the fact that he was very nice. She got a great look, and she remembered one salad like and she identified his vehicle and he got his little bit and seventy three. But when she told me it was like seventy three or seventy five cause. I didn't really write it there. I thought. Well, I said no, it can't be him because he was there in nineteen. Seventy four and I had forgotten about. I had completely forgotten about that. Bundy admitted to killing two in oregon and because he was such a creature of habit, he obviously went back there. It could have been in seventy three because he got his volkswagen that his little beige long sleeve wagon, just like that and so

he said to me. She said: oh well, I guess I'm ok yeah! I don't have her name and I don't hold you responsible because expect to defeat she. She saw the contacted me in the first place, so I said to myself that I will never ever under any circumstances, not write down everything that is told to me. Whether as a company or so that's what I've adopted since then, but anyway, he just he there's lots of women out there. Still that had encounters- and like I say I just got contacted Oh and over months ago, from us, a retired circuit court judge an organ and she and experienced with words he believes is binding and he was but this was nineteen. Seventy four, seventy one body borrowed a lotta be off. He always did that's one thing that surplus over the last sixty years, and research borrow vehicles, search, search for victims, more than most people realise and

it was a beige vw as to why he didn't get his base GW into this and have her was at seventy one. Seventy two and she did make a police report about it While I found out I'm going to do more investigation on this, because the story's going to go into the next journal, but she said I can't I don't want to get into everything that happens while she was in the car with him, but she was go away. But I found out that all these good friend boardman had only bays revolving around the same time, and I know that he you borrowed vehicles from a war runs on other occasions when they didn't have, that beige mean obvious I'll, have it, but that's what I have heard someone anyone by suggesting that they get a borrowed it and it could be somebody else's, but was Nobody can't say for sure she can't save the sure, but it's interesting enough to put it in there and wouldn't surprised me at all. If it wasn't body and that's based on something

Did she said he did while she was in the car, but I'm going to go into that and let his assassin? opportunity given to stop for a second to hear from our sponsor, which is best fiends. Who is a typical night? Listen I had dinner. Talked a little bit about her work. Then suddenly I disappeared no worries. I was just spending some quality time playing best fiends you may people wondering about yours, sudden, disappearances, but I totally understand you enjoy playing as much as I do. What I like the most about best means is that it's totally destroyed I'm completely immersed in, I lose myself in playing every time. I just pick up and play a few levels anytime. I have a few minutes feels. great to beat another level or get in the zone hard to believe now, but I'm almost at the level one thousand men only thousands ago best fiends is free to a load mobile puzzle, game featuring, always knew

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Include- and you have alluded to it already- you mentioned- is incredible story that backs up a lot of the information that you have already written about, but new information in this journal of the deal at the yearly journal. You spoke with a person name. Frida Aid- and this is regarding Debbie Christensen and her daughter, and they were friends- were friends, predate and Debbie. Kristensen were friends who had moved from florida to salt lake and in July, she's. Seventy four at the Annie lorry apartments, and you got the story from jody jones, which is, I guess, Debbie's daughter, and so they were. Living in salt lake and one night a man knocked on the door. You write about their experience. What did they experience? Why did you include this? Why were they so certain? counter about Bundy. Well, this is a one hundred percent proven, their body, came to the door and years will have it yet. They were good friends, for you will say that

She's got a memory like a steel trap. She remembers everything and I didn't get to talk to joey's mother, but she told me the story and it almost mash perfectly with what freedom hold me what happened so they were living in a brown storm that, if you go from belize apartment at first sixties First, I believe that what is now the avenues and if you go far blocks wisdom that heading towards downtown. Then you turn at the light, got three blocks: south laurie an enormous and its end there, these brownstones and while I was there in two thousand and six in two thousand and fifteen. I was all over this area, but I had no idea and wooden wouldn't hear this testimony in two years later, but ass. I had passed the place on numerous occasions, but they got a knock on the door one afternoon and they open it up. And then they both came to the door, and there was this man the day

later identified as burundi and the first thing animals mouth is I don't I mean to bother you and in the journal. I talk about how things like this classic bundle he was constantly saying. Excuse me miss or I'm sorry to bother you or this or that he'd have all these pleasantries where he greet them and here's what he said. He said I'm looking for a woman that lives in your apartment. He couldn't remember her name so somewhere in in her complex. He said he described her and she had on dark hair part of the metal, whatever he does other they knew of orbiting nor nay. He said I'm a law student at the university of neutral and she's in my class and above or notes and I'd like to return them to I just didn't know what form and she lives in and they said, and I wrote you a free, said well

We know who you're talking about, but we don't know her name. We don't know our apartment, but she's a telephone operator and then, when we're getting off work and we're coming off she's leaving for work a lot of times we'll pass each other not like sale or whatever, and she said. If you want me to we see her quite a bit. I can if she comes out later to go to work if she's work like today, whatever I'll, give her the nose- and he said no- that's okay I'll see her in class tomorrow and I can give her. The notes then- and I remember freed, has said she's such a an an extrovert. She said it's a wonder. I didn't invite him in for dinner, because he was just very polite things like that. and she said later she said you know. Obviously they they were on the first floor, so they could obviously see his car and she said no. We saw his car around the neighborhood quite a bit, and so that is classic monday and what he would do. He would stalk women. So apparently he was going down and again free to send this will. I have to say this. I said when was this: she said

before the murders of october and as a case for grass, Please look back. Of course it was nancy, walk, hawksley disappear thought to have been a while away later when these one one sided disappear. They started to consider homicide victim right, and so the council clasping her like that that you might be linked with all the other women jerry thomson, what most of these cases- and so it was before october, well. When I was talking to jody, she said well mom, and this is what freedom said. Well, she just can't remember she was thinking it happened like before he got arrested just like weeks before he got arrested. She said Frida told me now she said it was really well what the murders in october- and she said- that's when it happens. Ouch

wasn't until you know the following october, when he was actually hit the news and arrested his paper is based on the papers, but she said yeah I've searched the area and seen his vehicle. We remember seeing this people is his vehicle parked in various air. He is around the naval by and causes a little this. His farm is place jolly. We just crowded part there and look for victims again. This is all happening. The first month he was there in september, was with them busy month for Monday he didn't even arrive in the city he left on the second, it was one of the nice things I was able to discover for the bundy murders. Some people say he left on the third other people say early september, but I was able traces, gas receipts and he left actually on labor day september. Second of seventy four.

and again in bergamo, all cage ichor later and then after some time after maybe I'll close, will a clock, he murdered the hitchhiker, the article which back and then he didn't arrive and jelly early morning hours of September there and you know he is busy setting up his apartment and then he goes all replies all in the middle of the park gets a truck that he has loaded with furniture and has Glendora back with him, and I dunno how long glenn said, but he drove back when they even helped him get his furniture upstairs and stuff like that They were on the next day, drew back home and then was he had role in school a little over there and make a presentation that he was indeed there was ready to start classes, bobby everyday in all that was. It was going so much starting in october. As I said that he wasn't there

very much- maybe not not any more than three jobs- that person as the body was very busy and so again this honey pattern emerge and the reason why the barge frida aid and the other lady with sword came through jody win determined when needed a when this was. I immediately thought back to susan Milner, whose testimony is in the last book of the six books, the enigma ted Bundy, and what happened there. She was even closer to buy these apartments and she had had a little argument with her husband and just left to go for a walk and she stopped she told me Susan. They lived in above the pharmacy on the corner and there, like, I think, she's like a couple blocks from Monday's place, She walked down and the like in the afternoon if he walked down like a block or so and then to like a stool yard, ass, a fence,

you win where the opening was ass. She sat in a way that you want down swains and she was just swinging and body. it's all about. Is the gambia park got out and came and leaned on the fence and put you know how people put both their arms on the fence just levi, and he said- doing whatever he said. Listen. Would you like to take a ride with me? and I remember she said look I was mad at my husband, but I just married, you know, and she was she she was. She was pregnant, although it wasn't showing you some certainly we're not married. By going on around with a guy, jolly now. Will you ask for again? She said no one with that. She said he elbow. Maybe the storage any she said he tat distressed a couple tabs on the top of its ok and then what I've got to see that the environment is another example of an almost oh nothing story, but at the same time it is a story because she again I find them after its surface.

You do not get a year later, I so again, and that was an end again. She I got married on september, chant than there was just she thinks a couple weeks after that source game which often late september, and so I'm figuring out inasmuch as it were gathered around one said: we're still able to chip away at a second. so he knew where he had been hobby that first month before he started, actually kill it. So he again is failing, is failing his chat, be not able to get what he wants. So we don't know how many that first month, but he was just You just landed a huge and is already starting to hot as z. As September was he still had time until women, so that came the surface and at the same time as we can go into it later that and in my view, that only kills the smith

that ted Bundy new, more araby just didn't happen. It just happened as Bundy, just think of this lizards Oh and I liked him, I wish he would have been alive when I was right, the baltimore. I really wanted to talk there, but richard lord. I love his book, the deliberate stranger, but he had passed away of that so regretted not being able to talk with him, but anyway, he has something about that in the book and there were some people that believe this connection see these people came to them afterwards, one of the guys died in the nineteen eighties. But there's this other woman and see her name, but she said the bundy you know came and made, This was done in september is now she was over the summer. Much till he wasn't there, but the top was the smith wise is that some people believed that this day, I didn't want it in the money matters that the net was. Is that money ever get? If you look at what the rapporteur says and what they said,

is that bali was coming down there like in before september, about all that area should do their and making friends going down the tiny. We are huge all at the time it has, with the five thousand people there and apparently, as the myth goes, went down. There made friends with some other guys got to meet. Lore av spend time with her now he's busy back. here on women going, home in the middle of the month, not arriving until the third having to set of things with school. we're not gonna be there much he's busy and on top of that is already in is proverbial back yard the thought that he come to you all and zip down the tiny, tiny miniscule lehigh huge, all and standing all this day after day making

friends with these guys and laura and Amy, and a place called brown cafe, which was really the name. Isn't the nickname or this place? It just didn't happen. It didn't happen now. I didn't know all this. I didn't know it's only fair for that month which could disprove this other thing I didn't. Oh honey. Better, but when I wrote about because I did in the Monday mars when I about this in the trail of ted, Bundy came out twenty. Sixteen, I said this:

It's not something I use it didn't feel good to me, then it doesn't feel good to me now. In other words, I wouldn't use it again. If I rewrote the volume artists, I said I'm not saying it can't be true. It's because it's powerful could be true, but there's just too many things that don't act like that. Don't add up for me, but here's. The story can I claim? Yes, let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a second for the hazardous this summer. Get road trip ready with a brake experts at night s with up to one hundred dollars back on to axle brake service. When you use your midas credit card, so you can make sure every stop on your red trip is one you want to make request your appointment today at midas dot com. You were talking about this story. That again, you talk about in this journal is that many of the myths about bondi are dispelled about that. He would operate in broad daylight, like lake sammamish were abducted to

one day. But you say that soon after because of the corpus drawing because people had witnessed him, so many people had seen him and even heard his name tat. He says he resorted back to night time. Hunting yeah you today that, and you say you talk about that in all your research. You realise that the night researcher part made that his night hunting is where he started. Tell us about that. Yes, you know, everybody knows he started at night, but nobody has ever come ever commented on will I believe, the the events of lake sammamish affected affected were immediately back in the night time? No one had ever talked about that, but I thought about this for a long time and I first announced it publicly cause I'm gonna write about it in an enigma, but that at the serial killer

conference until I've just had known this for a long time, but I'm going to tell you here cause I knew it was going to be soon in the southern book and so in twenty said they were quite active. I was down the scammer said to gain university and I said: if you look at what he did, he went. He encountered some problems. it makes a mammoth. He started in chile in the middle of the night. He started with the attack on current sparks. He then what to the early morning attack like probably between two and three a m or to a woman. No later than actual he got off when the end healy and whisker away from her home. If you share with the other poets and everything was light up until April seventeen nineteen, seventy four- for he was holding a little bit in the afternoon. she was out of daylight and any other all night that night and then the other tommy was its data, be as they were I am already brim undine advice, but he stayed with the light of all the way through

Brenda mall. It was already dark when he hunted down a man said at every day college. It was about there are thirty at an enigma. When, suddenly, I was all these, you could see saudi just basically advice, then he ages himself in the daylight and then about July of seventy four. He is holding in broad daylight, but because it used is willing to, because one woman called him to his car and identified it as like a beige vw. He you know he he kind of spooked him. He never talked about it, to my knowledge to anybody, but he Italy goes in the night time, anita, and so after that you look at all the women that he started to adopt and murdering utah every one of them, is under the cover of darkness and left her son The answer that we don't know that he killed. He would remain getting people in darkness, whether it be

we're evening, or you know well cause like when he got January twelve. Suddenly bob kerrey amble around seven thirty. I think sunday was like before five pm, so he so he was in darkness any, income back out into the light that we know of from the record until he abducted up. Then these all are missing, and I think that was off April six of nineteen seventy five, so he retreated back into the darkness. No one had ever written about that. No one had ever spoken about that and these are the kind of things to come up with me after spending so many years. Looking at the case, another thing the laboratory in one of my abandon volumes, and first announced this I knew I was not write about it in the book. First announced this on facebook. My facebook page on Monday said I can't remember which, but I said you know plenty- he was so broke all the time that you know you absolutely have to know that he took the money deals

judge from victims than he murdered, one that money on them. There's no reason wouldn't have he needed mine too bad. Like sure everybody said I never thought of that, but that's gotta be right. Couple of people said no probably then, after a while, they would say that, because Bundy was a thief, he would still he would never very money. Will he wouldn't do any take the might in fact I'll never be able to through it, but he was so broke that went after he killed genocide and in these bans on having adopted the molten, like some amish, sure they had some money on them. At least one of them get probably janis, but she had brought her purse and some geneva left her purse Of course she write enabling money. Honourable Emma Jane is dead and when he took lose out edina out too you hamburgers lies in that night is a good chance to use money that it came from art, but these women kind of things you think about, as you study the case and they just kind of pop up. But I dunno when an aftermath of wait a minute, there's a pattern here. He starts off.

They thereby he's in the daytime than he does is really egregious double abduction and broad daylight and a place for those. Forty thousand people, including the police department, has happened. A picnic there danny they're, looking for ten they're looking for lbw and that must have kind of shaken him a bit and then he retreats back into the darkness. So, yes, these are just the kind of things that I end up. Seeing and again that just kind of came to me said well, wait a minute. We have a real pattern here starts at night early morning night afternoon, around noon bam all day, I mean meals at different times during bright sunny day, like some average, then immediately back into the dark, so yeah. So, but this this thing about where his unfettered was the first ball games have huge off. I never saw that coming back in the figure it out. It would have been for the miller testimony and then two women that open the door.

How many resolved light and everything it is over. My law student- so give away the notes batch but then there was and again I like what is given randal said it is. It really is about chipping away at and super. So and that's why I said in the book, and you read it- you know where, where no these all these are very new new information come forth, discoveries await, and so you know that's how you gonna look at, especially if you're writing about it is that goes on a long time. The very fact that beer, having written seven books about monday now over close the sixteen hundred pages. I never

revision to any of this. I didn't even ambition on writing a monte morris if it wouldn't have been for Jim massey. My my good friend who's passed away. Now the formal probation officers are in Louisville and his good friendship with jerry thompson that he met the nineteen early very early nineteen eighties. I will never read this book on Bundy gotta be jerry and from there I just took off so yeah. It's been an amazing journey, but to think that I was able to come with so many new testimonies about the one with the lady that encountered Bundy. She was on my way to hank cerebrum north tacoma involved, el camino and he said he acted like he was, from around there's something you said he was looking for a particular place which turned to be a landmark restaurants and she said with private

if she tried to give him her directions. He said I can't, and this is so much like bonding. He said you could just get in the car and show me take me there. I will give you gas money to get back and she thought gas money for my friends. We gonna have some beer on and she went over to get into the car. He and she looked in cause. He was standing back from him. He was coming on the street or or- and she was on the other side of the street, and I guess she came over and talked to the guy close to him and then, when she came around when she agreed to do it, she looked in. you're, the passenger bucket seat had been removed while- and she said her friend and her friend pam had the same encounter with the same guy and the same l blackish bluish elka meal with the seat out like she. I think she said three weeks later of that check check the book when they compared notes. It was the same guy and that guy had

I been one day and she said you know I knew I wasn't really familiar with all of his problems, but when his face started like it in the papers, the news I said: well, that's the guy, These are just things happen and failed abductions, and if you look- and I told my can about a friend the match and they re surgeries. Oh yeah, I know, hangs well, is a great place and he said there were there there's a bavarian restaurant there, the location like right there, as a barbarian rest. There was a barbarian breastwork we're finally made his cousin, John cow and Anne had dinner there with him right after the Cathy park smarter and try something new that he discovered for one Is it a research thing, but it Bundy knew that area well, he was all over and if you look at the distance he was from like hanks and were top of the ocean. Restaurant was that as the name of the place, the landmark restaurants and then were on these various lived. I mean they're out there, just not that far from each other

so again is only near to where his parents were, but now he's driving his car where he got this car. I have no idea, but again before a lot of the car itself as cars out there with probably not now the prion junk for the traces about your baby, air or whatever, maybe a splotch of blood down the weather belt on the window, or whatever knows I mean it's out there, and so these testimonies think they just keep I mean for the boy, some of them don't have the ring of truth and others do, and you just talk to them and ask them more questions, and it just confirms that

It will indeed out, and they indeed had an encounter with ted Bundy. Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a second for these messages. This summer get road trip ready with a break experts at midas, with up to one hundred dollars back on two axle brake service. When you use your midas credit card, so you can make sure every stop on your road trip is one you want to make request your appointment today at midas dot com. Now, in this book, what we haven't spoken about is you just talked

mentioned cathy parks. But in this book you have an interesting transcript of the biographical memorial of cathy parks, nineteen, fifty four, the nineteen seventy four to nineteen. Seventy, her story in the ted Bundy murderous mysteries, but this is a memorial written by your grandfather, charles park senior, and we have laid in october nineteen. Seventy five, just as Bundy, was about to become a serious suspect in the case, and so her parents were chaz, junior and catherine, and so he goes through the whole thing, the abduction and but its very interesting. Some of the information that he has at that time and that he is included in this memorial, which includes the abyss action but includes also her life. What did you get from this memorial and why did you included? Why was it so interesting to include in this boy he ass yours? interesting when I was right in the binding borders, I got a tremendous amount of files from the beginning.

the organised and I started. the red that I thought, while this is really something you could imagine- and the screaming grandfather taking the time to write this stuff and, as you say, it was completed like october, nineteen, seventy five, so that was the month that Bundy was just about to be revealed, and I always thought it was just very you know it just it just had a lot to it and it came out about a file that- and I put this in the book- the journal. If anybody wants to see it themselves or have a copy, you can obtain this. I think, as bach thirty four something may be, that file thirteen, something like that, but I looked at. You know. This is really something you never see the sort of thing in a homicide, investing investigative, vile. What he had done it written this need basically written it for his family. while he wanted them to have a copy of it as well, and so they put it in

I'll in. I think the troops had won the I alluded to it in a very little portion of like I think, the first page and then I elaborated on on another aspect of it in one of the other things because it depressed me so much and even though there's a few tiny minor mistakes, it's surprising that it's will accurate. It's a wherever there's like these little blobs or whatever I clear that up in a thing called author's note, the an electorate, but they have this thing put together by him, where his family had dealt a lot with the investigator harrison from oas huge from the school from which he disappeared and other investigators. They were grateful, and so he wanted to put this together because of such a loss losing her at such a young age. And you know I just thought people have asked about it. People seem to be interested in it

now, when I got to reading the personal letters, because I put letters of Kathy's in some of my previous books, including the bundy murders and attack, I think in turban is murder mysteries up with quite a bit. But for this thing he adds a lot of letters between a number of letters between cathy and her dad and other people at the desk. The things she's written and- and you know he doesn't, when he punches in it? He talks about one point. He said you know I just feel like. I never really knew my grandma and he also talked about how she had all these dreams, but his main concern was was like. Well, how are you going to support yourself, so he talks about the good things that taunts. the bad, but I thought you know most people. I never meant to see that yes, it is touching, relate to me this guy's long dead, but at last

it is clearly because it is a rare bird. I've never encountered anything so personal in an investigative file and I've looked a lot. So my guarantee as much as about bundy well. The people had never seen any kind of memorial like this ever and I just said it was very unique. So I want to do included in this book and I believe I made the right decision because it's very interesting to read because, as you read it, you you're almost feel the agony of parks, family and you just have to sympathize with them, and it's I'm sure it was a catharsis. It was cathartic for him to do it and it was important to do it and he said something at the end, and this was basically a game for the parks family. He said you know, like I'm going. To paraphrase here said we can visit her anytime. Just by calling her up in your memory. and that's true. That's one thing that you can do so I just very sat on the one hand on the other and its

heartwarming, but it's one of those things that think that we talk a lot about the case file. We show a lot of things from from the detectors and I wanted to social show something that was so incredibly important to the park's family that a grandfather completed. I just think it was worthy for the rest of the world to see it as well. It's also it. It repeats the story that you've told before that when she went missing. Of course, they had no idea that it just could be the work of a serial killer, but her father experienced a massive heart attack that same day, so the mother was instructed to not tell the father that the daughter was missing and you just have a incredible disadvantage and while not disadvantage is a horrible scene.

Confluence of disastrous confluence of events that have yeah right yard and of course they don't know for a while and the usual people are suspected the boy friend, and so it takes a while and then, as the grandfather rights they per bodies are her body is, and bones are found among the other bodies as well, so it it's, it is talking about the discovery and, as you say, tat ass, a suspect in these cases and unworthy of people missing women and young girls yeah, you know, I wrote the Monday murders I talk about. How can they, a cold morning from her sister shirt collar, that her daddy had a heart attack in sharing said dolly school will give you data on his progress and then they gone back to her later that afternoon. So he's doing better. apparently a mild heart attack, and so you know and they sheets

of course it was inevitable because she loved to take her back tunnel strolls, and your monday in lubbock, county or india, the cafeteria after eleven pm and then next to go with him, and that was it but yeah. It is very sad. You know if you look at something similar to that, You're the poor, father they're not telling him right away because they don't want the hassle of a heart attack. Dean can't was an executive with an oil company and he has suffered a serious heart attack and the first light he went out to do so. was when his daughter, Debbie invited them come see the play I saw that had just there was this first light out You know what we're am often said. This not upset this summer campaigning by us very often thing happened by chance. I favour why why they are women, get Ass his children, when I'm accompanied hearing all the way do too

which they wanted to do, but she says no one's gonna backup for she reads: the elevator molly would enable kidnapper, The Donna manson took another route or whatever these things happen by chance and and by chance that very night the play didn't get started on. The topic was supposed to end at ten ten pm, but it didn't get started on time. It ran over because Debbie's brother was at the roller rink and was told he'd be picked up at at and they called the roller rink, but they wouldn't. Let him talk to him or you know, pass off a message. For some strange reason she had to go getting there All you have seen the play I'll, do it close, then she disappeared. But all these things happened by chance and like the play, with a sort of and ended on. We would never even on the bank Debbie cap the outside is oliver. Yes, he said tat body was also had the states.

And a more, but he also was a opportunist. Yes, I want to thank you and thank you very much cabin for coming on and talking about your latest ted Bundy, the yearly journal, cabin and solomon for those it might want to take a look at it Is there an amazon page- and I know this is a wild blue press release so tell us how they might take a look more information websites were page, etc. Yeah there's two places where you could go you weren't like do a little really knowledge see you guys go outside and new york your file about there and it will have a look inside and then you can just click on that and you could read some of it and they all What we will do that with the swamp horses on on the book yeah, you can see all my books, it was you and all the while we breath you can also go there. click on my name and the animals was all about books listed, I'm right to grant blogs and you could go back at his back. I ever saw

My blogs are wasted the unerring. You can click on farm amazon on any one of these blogs, I've written and I'll. Take you over wildly press all those are the two locations where you can find out information about our thank you very much. Kevin am sullivan ted Bundy the yearly journal. Thank you so much. You have a great evening and We'll be talking to you soon, I'm sure they thanks dad we're gonna go back because she knew they had a problem. Parents gave the boy scouts the most valuable thing they had their children at home parents. You can trust us are unbelievably heartbreaking stories. This is about how to move from victim to survive. When the detective says he confess to abuse me, I no longer had to prove to the peace. I was

The powerful new investigative documentary leave no trace a hidden history of the boy scouts streaming on. Hulu this summer get road trip ready with the brake experts at midas, with up to one hundred dollars back on two axle brake service. When you use your midas credit card, so you can make sure every stop on your road trip is one you want to make request your appointment today at midas dot com,