Long and is now a page from the diary of flow dear diary. There's something about protecting people's homes to progressive that inspires me because I just had an idea for a book. Well, it was originally an idea for a movie based on a play inspired by a podcast, but the idea is how you can see when you bundle home and auto may not.

Be the best idea for a book sleep in average of seventeen percent on car insurance. When you bundle home and auto through progressive, maybe a radio, commercial guess, we'll, never know progressive casualty. Insurance company in affiliates discounts not available in all states are situations. Let's say you just bought a house. Bad news is you're one step closer to becoming your parents, which means you're going to start telling your kids to clean up before the cleaning lady comes doesn't make sense, but you're the parents in there the kids you're gonna start telling them that not too good news. Is it's easy to bottle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance and there's your opening to remind him who pays the bills around here. Progressive casualty, insurance company, affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all states are situations. Radio

You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Btk every week. Another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening. This real life tragedy began on a stormy night with a knock at the front door. A friend needed help with his car. What happened to

CALL Lisa, Gregory and Felicia. That night is worse than any fictional horror story. You've ever read or seen on the big screen. Little girls should never have to live in a barrel award winning journalist and Best selling author George Jerrod takes readers on agree. Ng and chilling journey with his latest true crime book the creek side, bones realities more horrifying than fiction. The book details how the Elliot family in Dalton Arkansas lived in constant fear in the summer nineteen ninety eight how they met their fates is ghastly. Jerret cover two murder trials in connection with the case and his own theories as to how and why the Elliott family was murdered. Four other murder cases are also detailed in the book. Sidney Nicole Randall was a beauty pageant queen

about to enter high school when a monster stole her away in the dark. Bridget sellers was a mother of three who vanished without a trace while on a walk down Peace Valley, RD her fate is incomprehensible. Bob Castleman was a respected attorney in Vietnam WAR Vet until the drug murder alive. Copperhead snake native american artifact fraud consumed his life. The book also includes an update on the unsolved Rebecca Gould case. Twenty two year old college student was murdered September 20th, two thousand and four in Melbourne, Arkansas there suspects in the case, but to this day no one has been jailed for her brutal death. The book they were featuring this evening is the creekside bones. Reality is more horrifying than fiction with my special guest journalist and author George Jerret welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. George Jerrod. Thank you

for. Thank you very much again. Another series of cases. I had no idea about, and yes much much worse than fiction more horrifying. Let's jump right into this. This especially you start off with this incredible story, as we mentioned of the Elliotts LISA and Carl Carl Elliotts, it's thirty years old, and you talk about the two kids Felicia's, eight and Greg, He is seven years old and the father and stepmom live very close, and this is in Dalton Arkansas and you talk about hardy, Arkansas too so set the stage for you talk about them, living very close to her parents in a trailer so set that stage. What was the living accommodations and tell us a little bit? but LISA and Carl. What was going on at that time and what, as you disc,

ride the area and what it's known for, tell us a little bit about this set the stage. July, twenty one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight Alden is a small town in northern Arkansas. It's a have unique and interesting places. The only county in the United States, where five navigable rivers are located is very rural. It's actually really beautiful place, a lot of rolling hills, cattle farms and, in fact, the two oldest structure still on the original foundation West of the Mississippi River, are in Dalton the rights of shot. How no we haven't made that ten million dollars restoring these two structures. So it's a very historic and beautiful plays an but there's also another, part of it. You know it is there's, there's a spark population there and it's just the kind of place

really convenient if you're in the drug trade. It's a it's a good place to live at the heart and it's hard for law enforcement to get in there. Everybody knows everybody out in place like Galton, Karl and LISA. They lived in a house. It was a family house and lisas dad and step I live in a trailer, I jake to their house and the Father of believe he had some I think he had some hearing problems and he had some mental issues, as did the stepmother, so they will not when this whole thing went down there more like reliable witnesses, I guess is the best way to put it. You know they were elderly and it incapable of giving any really good information. Karl with a carpenter and a mechanic like you said before they had two kids

they had Felicia, who is eight and Gregory? Who is six? What happened in the summer of nineteen? Ninety eight is, they were Carl was involved in some like minor drug stuff with the green family, the greens were really just a violent group of people who live move up in Randolph County, their patriarch Billy Green. He was a big time. Drug trafficker, just the drug stuff alone would have kept in prison for the rest of his life. Once was finally I'm charged convicted on those. In those cases, Billy have a son is old send Chad and they were just about inseparable. He was really he was really brutal to his son, but they were in the drug trade together and Carl was friends with Chad and something happened in the summer of nineteen. Ninety eight with the dynamic between the greens and Carl. There were rumors that he stole

number of marijuana plants from home. There are other rumors that he took cash a couple weeks before the murders LISA was she asked the guy if he would loan them ten thousand dollars to pay off the debt. So there was all this stuff with swirling other family members who came to visit the Elliott to sleep at night, with baseball bats in their beds, for fear that somebody would show up at their door, and this all culminated on July, 29th one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight Carlos family. They were getting ready to go to bed and it was an arc at the door. Chad Green, he had a truck and had broken down about a mile from their house along the eleven point River, so Carl gets up, but the shoes on But then she was Thunderbird in Chad back to his truck pouring down rain

and no one knows what happened at that same bar. All they know is with a few minutes Carl was shot twice in his body has been swung into the eleven point River. The Thunderbird returns, the door opened the little boy come running up to the door. Not I just, as you know, from saying crossing photo that more than likely happened. The kids saw the Thunderbird pull up, thought. It was a death. We just ran a dork, greeted head who won the door opened? The killer came, decide crushed the kids head like an eggshell,

with that. But but higher school and then jam to the the pointed end of it for the kids throw any bled out all over the floor, and then the mother came in to try to save her son and the killer hit her twenty seven times with this too, but this tire tool and there was blood everywhere. I talked to one detective about this case and he said it in he was a veteran get covered. Many murder cases are investigated, many murder cases. He said he had never seen the crime thing like that. This entire lack said it not Rick about here's, and so what's the killer is done with the mother. The killer goes into Felicia's room and there's a picture of the tired still dropped amongst all their stuffed animals that were in pots, she's hiding under bed killer takes her rats are and blanket and put her in the trunk of the thumb. Well, as a killer or killers ready to leave, they noticed something in the yard, something

moving an what it was. It was LISA she had woken up, they thought she was dead. She woke up. She climbed out. The window, of the and she was crawling across the yard to get to her parents house and when she gets there, she literally gets the door. Your hand, is on the door, there's actually bloody handprint that you can see The killer or killers run up behind her slash her throat all the way across that she believed out on their. They didn't know she was there till the next morning and because I couldn't open the door and they didn't know what was jamming the door. And so little girls taken there's a lot. They don't. They don't know definitively what happened to her there's lots of stories, but they do know that her her bones were found in a creek a couple years later about a half a mile,

the green, the Green Clans house, Billy Green Towels, and it was out in the middle of nowhere and that's why I titled the book to Creekside bones because that's where they found Felicia, let's go back just a little bit because, right away after this brutal murder and this crime scene, that you say that even veterans still have nightmares about, The first logical suspect, because Carl and Felicia are missing. So, let's go back to how everything is discovered, but also Carl is the suspect. Initially. Is Anne, so tell us what happens next? Yes, he was a suspect. You know, will make my family friend Gregory's bodies the next morning, you know he was missing. Police was missing, so the first assumption was that he killed his wife and son and taking his daughter that figure ended on August. Second, one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight when they found his body in the river and

from that point on. They knew they were. The police knew that they were dealing with. They were going to have to find some unknown person or persons who committed this crime, and the greens were identified at semi suspects kind of early on the first couple of. The investigation they were interviewed couple times chat was, and the problem was is there was very little forensic or dna evidence of crime scene. They just had nothing to go with But as time went on, you know, like I said in a little place, like Dalton. Everybody knows everybody and story start to get out and so the police, a year or two we're starting to hear some pretty strong math. The nations that the greens were involved in the murders and and they knew that Carl and I've been involved in some drug trafficking together. So so they were for several years they would bring him in an interview in, but they never could pin anything to them. What changed

and ironically enough, it was five years to the day was July, 29th, two thousand and three Mary Green Billy's, former wife. She finally confessed the crime, the police. She told them exactly what happened when she was told by her son and some things that Billy had said, and so so five years to the day, they arrest the two. Immediately? They try to get Chad to turn on Billy, so they wanted to turn him into a witness. They gave him a sweetheart deal, they said hey. If you will test by his father, will give you thirty seven years in prison for all for capital, murder,

And he also had a at an unrelated, a sexual assault of a child our crime had been and that it was that he was having to deal with as well. They just packed it all together and they said thirty. Seven years has, I guess, your dad. He agreed to it within, and two thousand four Billy goes to trial. If convicted, he could argue all death row and that the case was basically it was over. You know everybody was happy in the as far as well. Let me back up a little bit so during

the trial, a woman got on the stand and said that she was scared of Billy and that she thought that he might have had something to do with the murder of her nephew. Well- and you know this than you know, when you're testifying in a capital, murder case or any case, you have to kind of stick yet you have to stick to the facts of that case. You can't bring up things like that, so the judge should have declared a mistrial right there. He didn't so on appeal. The conviction was thrown out. Prosecutors were in for a surprise, because obviously they were going to immediately, retry him. Well, they got a surprise when Chad said I'm not going to test faggot, my dad second, and so the at a quandary, and actually I was about to go to the Us Supreme Court, because his lawyers, naming double jeopardy. 'cause Prosser said: ok, fine, we're not going to buy. You know we're going to do we're just going to recharge you with all four accounts: capital, murder and the sexual assault and

that is our our lawyers argued that no, no, you can't do that. It's doubled that would violate the double jeopardy right. So eventually did work its way through the court system and basically the finding was that if he agreed to the plea deal, then it didn't exist, so it couldn't violate it double jeopardy laws. So Chad was charged with four counts: capital murder. This sex assault charge on the sex assault, charge alone. He got six hundred and fifty years and then, of course, they go to trial in believe it was September, two thousand and eleven and basically Chad, prosecutors were able to prove that Chad with a lot more culpable in the murders that what was initially thought initially, the police had made that had the theory that Billy that Billy was the mastermind in that Chad was just the

I'm willing, Duke who went along with his dad, and it was told well, I was headed. There was always a problem with that for Maine studying the case for one simple reason: Billy was a very sophisticated criminal. He had like radio That is how he was monitoring police traffic. All the time headed formance everywhere that he paid off to keep information forum and get information for and the one thing that surprise. About the whole incident was the little girl was taken and Billy for all of his horrible dies in life. Came across any any eight hundred. It's hard like had a feeling and shed. You know that sex assault charge that he had previously was for molesting an eight year old girl, and so it is in my mind I was going okay, whoever did this the motive.

It was a little girl because she was taken and then on their forget it during chat, trial, number one and another thing, It would probably cause this case. To go back to court anyway was defends prosecutors, didn't divulge back in two thousand and four. That chat actually confessed to the merge and that he said he did I'm all by myself that that would be all and he he he did this with like an attorney in a in a private investigator that that well, they never divulged, asked to believe defense state at that time. So right there I mean it, It was almost. It was almost bad enough that the judge in the case had to even consider if Billy was going to go to trial a second time once this was found out in twenty eleven

and that, but then he finally decide to go and like a move forward. So I in my mind I just don't think of billy- had been there at the crime scene. I don't think he would have allowed. She had to take the girl, because the girl, with the let the police right to them and and and back at his trial, but it was a really surreal moment. I had an inmate who testified that Chad brag about the killing and he said that he talked about the little girl and wanna just just a heart. Breaking crushing moment the guy gets on the stand and said that you know he wanted to enjoy her 'cause. She was going to die anyway, eh and I remember just look at the jurors- are crying, of course, and a member all I know, they're crying to me. I have a lump in my throat top many murder cases so anyway, Chad was convicted and so was Billy later his trials in two thousand and twelve. They were both given life without

role. The reason they weren't given death sentences in in the cases is because the case is circumstantial Mary, Green Chad's, mother and Billy's former wife had to testify. She was the most crucial witness. An processors were afraid that if the death penalty was on the table specially with her son that she might not be as forthcoming in her testimony, so they had to take that off the table, and so both these guys are in prison for the rest of their lives. Now, and I tell people when you read this story when you pretty

this case it is about it. There's never you've, never watched a horror movie or read a whole novel any worse than what happened in that family. I mean the brunt of the the crime scene. Photos are just a little, I mean it was literally hear the term bloodbath in this business a lot it literally that houses the washer blood, now copy photos of LISA Elliott. I've seen many many autopsy photos of her. Hers would be absolute most heartbreaking, yeah, yeah. You got to see that I've never experienced crime scene photos, and I, if I can avoid it, I will yeah what you talk about. We what's really fascinating part of this book and I I wanted to ask you to it. I don't know if you've come this conclusion, but it seems very irresponsible, it would seem even on the little mint limited amount of evidence that they had, because you uncovered a lot of stuff in the

came out later when Chad was put in that position against his his father to try to mount some kind of defense. So you talk about the evidence that was there that there was two killers and there was evidence from Mary about the phone call and from Chad. Text girlfriend. So they put this thing together that there certainly was a call that there certainly was a lot of evidence to say that they were both involved. So I seem to responsible to me in that first trial to be able to convict Billy completely. And and no culpability on Chad's part. It seemed talk more about the dilemma that the Mary had Billy's, wife and Chad's mother. In this, and It seemed in the least in your regard and your respect that it seemed what she was

trying to do at trial for her son and against her husband. Well, it was clearly obvious to me here's the thing you're being a journalist, and I know that you can appreciate that one of the many people don't ever step foot in a court room. The the you know like a good bye. The only time they ever call room is the day that they're on a on a on a jury, a lot of the people who testify in the capital murder cases. They don't have the totality of what would be of the what happened in the court room because they can't be in there when other people are testifying, and so, as a reporter, you kind of you, you get that that there needed to look into every single person testify you talk to the jurors. Afterwards, you talk to the family members during so you get it. You have that you have an insight that really no one else can get, and it was pretty obvious to me after covering bowl capital murder cases in saying Merry testify.

You really error trying to minimize Chad involvement. She got chats are couple times because you would say well, if you, if Chad did, it was because Billy Cold and You know it was kind of one of those deals and even you know, and obviously you get the intro you know. One of the stories about the little girl is that she was kept. She was tide up and kept in a garage in a barrel and, and they asked Mary they said, did you ever ask Chad about where the girls captain how what happened to her and she just cried and said now. I never asked, and I said why and she said because I didn't want to know so so she tried but then again she was obviously very traumatized during Billy's trial. I mean she walking corpses. She saw, I mean you, could you could see her face? I mean, the man had traumatized her a lot so she, but she was a pretty. She was credible. I thought she

It is any mother would do she try to protect her son to some degree, but at the end of the day she still gave the critical facts that they needed you know there was a phone call, the night of the murders I nearly laughed. He said he had to go, help Chad, clean up on that and so- and I always took that you know, like the prosecutors always took that comment. I'm from that night to me that he was going to help Chad killed the family. And again Billy being a sophisticated criminal. I don't know why if they were to kill him that night, I don't know why it would have been better planned out. I guess is the best way to put you know, and why would they kill the whole family when they could just kill Carl and you know, and they would probably they would let you know when you when you kill, for only for like that, I mean that that makes national news you know,

but he did kill another another guy involved in the drug trade with you there's a good chance. They won't even call back line. I mean this is just a hard fact, but it's true, and so that's how it was clumsy in my opinion, is that the call has been superficial wounds to his neck, like somebody maybe scraping with a knife, they work they work like out for us. You know from a knife, and you know dang killing of the people with a tire tool to help me you just grab whatever that just kind of those things we just grab whatever's handy to try to hit somebody with it so anyway. I I just think that that Billy I've said this before I don't think anything to do with with Carl or LISA or Gregory's death. I think it's possible. He might've killed Felicia though,

that may be found out that Chad had. There was one story that was that several people testified to in court that Chad had fallen in love with Felicia after keeping her for a couple of days and they couldn't kill her and that his dad had to do it because he knew as soon as we found out that check had kept her. He knew that she would leave the police directly to them, so he took her out to the creek in Splitter Throat and she drowned in this wet weather creek. So I think, that's possible. I talked to Julie right after the convictions and the gap went down. The judge called reset. I went up to his defense attorneys they would freely. Let him talk to me so and he looked sincere when he said I didn't do this but, like I said, there's hard feel sorry for guy. You know his his rap sheet is very very long. He's committed many many other brutal crimes, so he and, like I say,

he would be in jail for the rest of his life anyway, on all the drug charges had been convicted up. Previous all of this and these drug charges to why they really was important is because you say he was. It was much harder to convict him with the circumstantial evidence of murder, but to tie him in with a drug dealing and homicide connection or connected was much easier. And attainable, but this is a guide will important person that they think has killed before in the commission of his drug business. A yes and he had very possible lots of rumors. Never out like I said he was never convicted of any of these, but there were there

a lot of rumors. He would. He lived in southern Missouri for several years lot in Afaria connections. Up in that area he was actually shot and all but died and sell at a at a bar room, brawl one night yeah it it's. He was a. He he's a he's. A rough guide. I've been asked that question several times. You know like you like who the worst person you've ever been around, and I Without a doubt. It's Chad, green and right behind him and his dad Billy. Do you think what do you think? Because you provide that in in this book conclusions to all these cases you're right there? What was your luzhin on how this went down and why? What I believe is that Chad was out that night and he was He was out driving around his car, his truck.

Broke down by the river and it about a mile from Carl's house. I think he went back up to. He walked into the house, ask world Health and I think they, went down to the river they probably consumed drugs together. Chad had a really bad habit. When he got high at parties and stuff, he would take out his twenty two and shoot at people because he thought it was funny And I think what happened in this case is they ever got into an argument or Chad was doing the stupid thing that he always did when he got high. He pulled the gun out and I think he accidentally shot called and when he yeah he freaked out. He shot him again. He God is pocket knife out and he was going to let's throw, and then he thought, no, I'm not going to do that. You did anyway, so he threw the river and he knew that LISA had just made him a glass of tea before he left the house with Carl. So he went back up to the house and

not all family members knew that he had left with Carl and they found Carl's body in the river Chad would be the primary set. He knew that he would go to prison, so he went up there and swap about family to protect itself. He would have had a file. The little girl there's actually been some rumors that he had already started to molest her before the murders, and so I think he took her and then and that's what I think happened, but the I think Billy tried to help him cover it up after the fact. So you don't believe it was on orders to kill this family or collect this debt from Carl.

No, I believe that I believe that Billy had threatened Chad because Carl was his friend a few weeks prior to the murders. Mary was in her flower garden and she or flower beds, and she showed her conversation between Billy and Chad. Basically, ability was telling Chad you better get my stuff from Carl or you and him are going to get it, which you know there was a theory floated for years that it was over ten pot plants well again abilities the sophisticated criminal he might go and beat Carl up over some pot plants, but I really don't think he would kill him over it, because just for the simple fact that yet again, that's going to lead the police right to you and it's going to shut your drug operation down so again, is it possible? Yes, I mean, will

probably never really know what happened, but I think just from the circumstances, the clumsiness of it. That's the main thing I mean they left the tire tool at the house. There is no way Billy Green is leaving that tire tool at that house. So you know, and just the fact that they were, it was ill prepared. I mean, like I said before, if you, if you want to deal with Carl and him not paying a debt or stealing drugs from you,. You're not going to kill his whole family. I mean even it comes to a point where you decide you're going to kill him you're going you're going to find some other way to do it. Kredible horrible case. Let's go to the case of Sydney Nicole Randall, another heartbreaking case. You talk about this she's one slash five grader in walnut ridge, real rural, southern town, Northern Arkansas. Lawrence county tell us and set the stage for this, and you talk about her mother, Denise Cornell.

She's a cancer survivor and Sydney, has a stepfather John Cornell, big guy, two hundred fifty pounds mid 30s, Tell us a little bit about their family situation there and walnut Ridge. What's going on March, two thousand thirteen well actually Sydney with the she was in the fifth grade. When my wife first encounter my wife's a fifth grade science teacher, he was what Sydney was one of her students in the first class that she ever taught Lawrence County is a farming community or not large kind of excuse in boulder ridge is a farming unity in Lawrence County it it sits on the near the Black River, which kind of bifurcate the Ozark Mountain region and that this delta region. So when you come in Walnut ridge coming into the first bigger Delta town

I'm coming out. The Ozark Foothills lots of soybeans, peanuts or corn is the largest agricultural area, and what happened was. Did he was in the eighth grade? She was a beauty pageant queen. She the flag line team for the the by newer she, my daughter, play softball. She would she was friends with several girls and my daughter play softball with it. So she come watch him play I I will go on my wife's classroom occasionally and I would see Sydney in there no. She she was pretty and respectful girl. She, everybody loves, which is a great kid, and so what happened is on March tenth, two thousand thirteen. Her

Her and her stepfather vanish and what happened was Denise was a spell asleep. That night she had a bush had back surgery, and she had taken a xanax or something like that that it kind of knocked her out, and so when she woke up it was like three hundred o'clock in the morning. She knows John with him in bed with her, and she went around the house checking on her on her three kids and she notice that Sydney was missing, and so she started calling around and none of her friends, new issues that you know at first. I thought, maybe she just snuck out. You know she's an eighth grader, I mean kids do stuff like that,

and and maybe John went out to look for. You know that was kind of what she was thinking. Well, none of her friends had any idea, so she called the hospital and see if maybe there was an accident or something happened, and then she calls the police because John's wallet and his cell phone, all that was still at the house so right around the time to waiting outside. This is like three hundred and thirty four o'clock in the morning and there's always been a little confusion about this about the date just for that, I'm just because of the simple fact that time change that right, so it was just kind of a weird thing, so she's waiting well Johns truck pulls into the driveway and she said is Sidney with you and he said no and she said well she's missing and he said that's bs and he said he's going to the police to follow report. So he leaves well the police officer rise. Few minutes later and Denise is like the husband and father pushed for me. Please

she says no, and so anyway, so all the next day looking for I'd heard something I caught like the tail end of a missing girl in Walnut Ridge story, I was watching news. I didn't catch the name, but you know this, it's not it's not uncommon for a stepfather to you know be blessing, his I'm a step child and then you know they take off together and they're found in some other. I mean it's not a it's unfortunate, but it's not an uncommon tail. So my wife called me is one Sunday. On Monday morning my wife called me at my office and she's panic. She said Sydney's missing and I was like I said well, they'll find her. You know, don't worry about it. You know, but then, at three hundred o'clock that afternoon

they found John's body on a gravel road just outside of walnut Ridge and get shot himself, and so at that point we hear it was bad and it's a really weird thing like the Ogden Journal. For a long time. It's a really weird thing writing about someone you knew and it was. It was heartbreaking. I had a lot of inside Ach access to family just because they knew my wife, she was their kids teacher. I knew my kids knew. I mean everybody newer, so I was able to get like a lot of times when the family wouldn't octane by they'd, still talk to Maine, and so I was able to write stories about But you know the days and weeks when, on the never found that hadn't founder and, of course it's springtime

comes along, you know, spoilage starts to grow, the landscape starts to change, and so now what kind of an assumption that they didn't find her? You know before spring started that they may never call, and so- but that all changed on May eighteenth. Two thousand thirteen guy was out fishing with his family. They were, they were checking some some drop line, all the black River and I looked over and it was in their twenties. I grew up through the the the river bed and I looked over and I noticed what looked like a manic first and day you went over their course of the father, be Lee knew that it was a body going to see what it got a little closer so that he got the rest of the younger kids address and numbers down river and then him and his oldest son went back. They called the police. I was actually at the park playing basketball with my kids, I'm going to

Word came. It's amazing. How remember when I first started as a reporter, you know you go down on police station. You know you gotta, you gotta, try to find went to get them to give you information nowadays with Facebook. Well. I think I knew within seven right minutes of the call going into the nine hundred and eleven center. They found her. It was simply because people share that up on social media. Now you know and So anyway they confirmed it with her a day or two later, and it was just a really it's a heartbreaking case. It err err. It's just hurt your soul. To know that that little girl and and I'll say this- I got autopsy reports- and they found her dna on his penis. So they know that he raped and killed her before they that she was raped before she was killed and they yeah.

That and I feel like again I'm in the book I talk about this. I think probably what happened was that he was having violent sexual they're, not thinking herder, and then he know what to do. He freaked out and hit her over the head. She from blunt force trauma to the head and she ground, so he hit her in the head they through through the river and so anyway, and it you know it a case like this. It's really tough because I actually had to deal with his some of his family members, and you know they don't want to believe that he, this horrible rapists murder monster, but the problem is: is that he he was. He didn't. And you know we might recording, I didn't say anything about where they what her dna. I just said they found her dna on him and then I had to one of the family members that you know hey. They actually found it off. Penis, there's! No doubt her. Dna should not be there and, if you

We've gotten back into that house and I've. Always I've contemplated this. If he had gotten back in the house at night, let's just say: Denise doesn't wake up these slips back into bed and then there's no proof at all that he had anything to do with her murder, yeah, that's terrifying idea or thought yeah and there was bend the younger son's or the sun. Pardon me. He had also said yeah. He had confirmed that John Cornell was abusing his daughter, stepdaughter, yes, what happened was. Is he that he started gifting Sydney by several months before this? He was by a bar, a laptop your buyer had to dress. Let me he took her pageant, dress, shopping. And you know right there, that's I mean that's just that is bizarre. Behavior anybody can

can see that and he he would never have a boyfriend he he would take her cell phone away from where all the time he didn't want boys around and you know intimate you know she and in the police report you talked about. You know their sex life changing pretty dramatically because of the surgery she had it and she began to suspect that you know that you might be molesting her nearly in a pretty small house, it wasn't like you mean by mad and they all they all knew. What was going on. That's incredible. Let's use this as an opportunity, George to stop for a second to talk about our sponsored today. Worby Parker WAR B, Parker start as a collaboration between four close friends.

Warby Parker was conceived as an alternative to the over priced and bland. I, where available today, Warby Parker, is vintage. Inspired with a contemporary twist, every pair is a custom fit with anti reflective polycarbonate prescription lenses. They have a free home, try on program order, five pairs of glasses and try them on for five days. There's no obligation to buy the ship free and include a pre create return. Shipping label had to worby Parker dot com, slash true, murdered order. Your free home try ons today, glasses start at ninety five dollars, including prescription lenses lenses include anti glare and anti scratch coatings for every pair. Are you by also a pair is distributed to someone in need the glasses look fantastic by the way and the trial?

The program is really really easy, and I like getting other peoples opinions about the glasses before I even purchased them. Do you have an Iphone x make sure to download WAR B. Parker's app where you can use their brain new feature, find your fit find your fit uses. The Iphone x is true depth. Camera to map and measure key face, features using these measurements, find your fit recommends. Approximately twelve war B, Parker Frames that are likely the best fit for your face. The process is seamless and takes only a few seconds after that you had to warm

Parker dot com, slash true murder and place your home. Try on orders make sure to download the war B Parker APP from Itunes APP store. They built this great app in which allows you to take photos wearing all of the frames. You can stitch it into a video, and then you can share it with your friends. And your family basically pick the winner, the ones that you really like so go to Parker dot com, true murder, and order your home try on today, that's Worby Parker, DOT, com, slash true murder. Now, George in your chapter three, you talk about another missing persons case. You start off with this that you're shy.

Being in notice a missing persons poster a young mother named Bridget sellers, and it made an impression Now you talk about a year later, your work- in your first serious newspaper, reporting job an error. A wide media in Salem Arkansa tell us about how this very impressive missing poster is made a very big impression on you. What happened with Bridget sellers and story. Well, I you know I just graduated from college and I went on a trip to Europe. I've been gone for about a month and I get the first night. I came back, I was just a local store shopping walk through the doors it was. You know how I guess really nice warm spring now to look over on the wall, and I see this picture of this woman and it left an impression on me because she

kind of looked like my wife in the picture, so I just kind of noticed it for whatever reason and who knows why? I just it just never left me. I wasn't working at a newspaper at that that a year year and a half later, I started working in newspaper and you know as a reporter. You keep lists of stories that you want. Work on you know and when there's no breaking news or not covering a meeting or or whatnot, you just have a list of if you want to work on one day I was walking on my list and I thought I wonder if they ever did any stories about this missing woman. So I go into my editors office again in David Cox, who is one of the best editors I've ever had walked in? I said David. Did you guys ever do any stories about a missing mother? And I had no idea what I was talking about, so I started doing some digging around. And the I found out that this mother of three had gone for a walk on a road called Peace Valley RD ironically enough, and it connects two towns horseshoe Bay

then his retirement community in ash flat. It's just a rule, thoroughfare. You know people, it's not heavily traveled, there's no space, at houses and farms along this play, there's a sense, Terry and church. You know all this kind of thing. Well, I got the name of the aunt who put the poster stuff but in there had been a number phone number that was it with her, and I called the number was disconnected, I think I got an address? Maybe I tried to go, I'm little really the kind of reporter. I will go to someone's house. I've done it before. So, I went to the house, they want when there are no more nobody knew where they were at so I kinda just gave up on it. Well, my sister was at the same store a couple years later, buying a sprinkler for my kids to play with and she brought it home.

Sprinkler just totally sucks, so we decided we were going to go to horseshoe, then there's a lake there and we thought we just go swimming at the lake. Well, we're driving down peace, valley, Road and my sis tell me a story about how she met a woman in line at the store and the woman was the dog breeder, She had a saint Bernard puppy that my sisters friend might be interested in. So the woman gave her a card. Well, of course, there was being and so I immediately called her right there on the road I called in and I'm like hey. I want to do a story about your missing nice and she said great. She goes. She was mad. The police weren't looking for you know, know he was doing anything to try to find this kernel. So I go when I do the story. She actually lived on: Peace Valley, Road and the dynamic. Is that

she lived in peace, valley, road and so did an uncle on bridges dad side. He also lived on Peace Valley, road and I asked her if she had any idea, might have done this. Who could have taken her? She didn't give me any names, but it's pretty obvious to me that she was pretty scared of the other uncle on Bridget's dad side, so the police. Finally, there was a jurisdiction issue, there's two counties that meat right there, sharpen Izzard counties, and so the police had some your stiction issues. They didn't know if it was their case because she was walking on the road. You know who which agency should take care of this. So finally, they search his property and they don't find anything, but he was pretty clearly the suspect and and just back up a little bit when I went to the aunt's house, I mean it was unbelievable, healthy. I mean I've literally gone drug,

range. Where I saw, I saw an officer lose half his hand. One time I felt safer there than I was at this house and they were pitbulls everywhere rottweilers they were they've, been breeding or will they really? It was a crazy scene and, of course, bridges fun was living with him he's a little guy is about two or three, and I took a picture of him on a swing set an so anyway. The police search the property. They don't find anything well a few months ago by actually took a different newspaper job along. I get tips that they're going to go there going to go check this guys house again and this time they're going to clean out his sewer tank and they do that and they find summer her she had a she had kind of a a bone deformity that affected her fingers. I found you think about the matter and they were tested for, and I had to

bone deformity that she had so they knew that her body had been there. What was really bizarre is that none of her bigger bones were found and like her skull or torso, and what they think happened. Is he actually, after the first search the Jerry Stevens? I think that he they think that he went back into that septic tank and actually fished her big bones out. Nobody knows what he did with them so and the day after they find these bones they're going to charge him with capital murder. He actually end up dying from cancer, so he forgot his victim neck and neck K. And you look into his background. You talk about previous violence will say I was a blue but above that, what you found in terms of his past violent record at: u, he had. He had shot and killed. I believe

Father back in the 70s. I think they ended up ruling it a justified homicide and then and he also had also had been charged and convicted of some sexual misconduct with Bridget when she was a child and there's no When Bridget went for a walk that down the road she got go fight with grant because their aunt wanted her. You know she had. She had been doing some. And one of the minor drug stuff, and she had been in a responsible mother. I mean, I think you could probably safely say that, and so the at least two of the kids were living with that and at the time, and I guess she got mad- that's why she went for a walk and when her killer came up on her, I don't know if he killed her because of the minor. The minor sexual misconduct charge that he had leveled against of years

or or there's other you know other rumors that he she is, he may have been involved, become drug stuff and she was involved with them. But for whatever reason he came upon her that day and he killed her. I mean he chopped her up in a separate subject. You talk about, The incredible search- and I found this very interesting to they- had everything from cadaver dogs and they had so. They had gone by that septic tank, say there was he theorized or other people theorize that he went and took like the skull out of that, or so obviously they would have been there if they would have searched, so he they speculate that he took them out, but these cadaver dogs tell us why they couldn't detect anything, even though they had this in.

Google search for Bridget, you know I. I wondered about that. The police officers that I talk to about this because they had several never dog out on the property and they never hit on septic I think the just the overwhelming mix of smells in the septic tank probably give you the dog or, if they can't on the. Septic tank. They may not have like it might be common for dogs to hit on septic tanks just because of the smell. So I never could get a clear answer on that. I will say this:

you know I'm good at this for a long time. I read a lot about different murder cases. I've never heard of anybody stopping a body in a septic tank like that. So you know, may maybe that's just a place. You can hide, you know one, and it is just make it that much harder for the dogs to hit. I think so yeah and you say that may be Becky Jones. What was the speculation that she may have known? that Jerry Stevens killed Bridget yeah. I think I I think she probably at least suspected. She didn't tell me that, but one when his name was brought up here. She she really didn't want to talk about him. So she obviously I knew he was a dangerous guy. Shelton knew there was a connection between him and Bridget, so it. She I mean I I could tell there was definitely something there. I don't think she want to speculate, but you know if you

your niece goes missing. You know, there's a guy who possibly has have a motive that lives literally as the crow flies. You know just a few hundred words from you like that it's a rural area. If she went for a walk, you know the chances of. I'm coming up on her pretty good, so I think she probably had some suspicion, but you know she was pretty she she suspected he killed her. She was definitely correct herself with me anyway,. You take us to another story where a farm service store where they would sell products related to farms in Walnut Ridge Arkansas again, and this this, the

since name war working there about seventeen years and he sees this Bob Castleman Sixty Year old guy. This is a April two thousand and eleven and he's got this canister of Coleman Camp fuel. Tell us a little bit about more and the cooperation with police an why this canister of Coleman Camp fuel is cause for suspicion. Tell us this story that you start off with well the reason and it's suspicious is in Arkansas and a lot of southern state, poor state then just an epidemic of methamphetamine use, there's a people who make methamphetamine it's cheap to make is highly addictive and this Bob Castleman guy he had gone into the Farm service store there and in Walnut Ridge, and he was buying from components and two being campfire, feel it there's just certain earmarks for,

of making methamphetamine in those products. You know any any kind of. When you see people who are addicted to Matt you, you immediately know who they are. I walk into a court room. You know dirt on on on the court day, and you know you can you can see out in the crowd. You can look, you know who's addicted to meth and who's. Not me, it's obvious and so he saw he saw Bob councilman. He saw him try to buy some components, he knew that he was trying to buy these to make meth, and so he calls the police and sure enough. They find a bunch of this stuff will bob it's an interesting story. The he was uh expense in time he was, he was interning. He had spent some, some of the judge. He graduated from law school, He was a Vietnam vet. In fact, his brother was one of the prosecutors on the billion Chad, green murder, trial. So we came

family lawyers, and he just devolved into this this criminal. It all started No one I mean I'm sure someone knows, but he had. He had pretty highly successful law practice there in a town called Pocahontas, which is the county seat in Randolph, county and no, he made a lot of money. He was connected to a lot of people and very well liked by the way, a lot of people like Bob Castleman, and he had a son and the son had gotten into a dispute with one of their neighbors and he the dispute escalated to the point where the sun actually one over two. The neighbor's house and had destroyed part of their yard, like he drove his suv into their yard and he donuts or whatever you would do destroyed the yard. Well, when

He was coming back home later that night, as he passing by the neighbor's house, the neighbor was outside with a gun and actually shot into his suv. A number of times and almost killed him one ball. It landed just a bit just literally inches from it had and so Bob you know obviously wanted the neighbor to be charged with you know aggravated assault. You know go to prison when well the police. Finally, after about a year told him they said hey, this is back in two thousand and one told him that he's only getting charged with like a misdemeanor assault charge because they credibly thought that the guy was fearing for his life. When the sun was coming back down there, and so Bob decides to mail a live copperhead,

to this family and the woman is he he drove a drop in the post office they're in town they're, so wonderful, too, but this live copperhead in it. Well, they actor email. One day in this tube is in there. They open at the woman opens the tube they're sitting in a truck. Her husband driving sitting in the middle and I've got a friend who's sitting on the other side of her in the backseat. They got another person and two kids. I think one of more than a second baby. I like your car seat and she opens the two, the snake pops out right in your face. She said the dismay got within a couple: inches ever had well, she throws the box the whole thing on to the guys at the next to her that he talked with

out the window, the box landed in a way that it trap the snake, and so the police were able to come and they shot the snake. It into a very long to figure out who sent it and why and so he's chart course. Here's the thing when you mail, something like that it can become a federal crime and, of course the story made international news. I mean it's just so bizarre. You know somebody mainly alive snake to a neighbor, and so he got charged in federal court. He losses blah license. You know It would present several years so that it's not and they got back out. It find something to do and he got mixed up in draws making math his family owned. A large far out in room part of Randolph County, and so they

go there and I would recommend you know, and so he would he he got. He got busted a couple times, for I can you know some other drugs stuff and then finally, the cold. It's good that we're talking about arm service store went down not too long after that they busted a major drug and it, and it was like eight or nine people involved. More of was the police chief in Pocahontas twice. There was some other pretty prominent yeah, it was. It was a big time is a big deal and- and it was a federal drug probe. Well- and you know this dan- it's when you get a lot of people in a conspiracy. The first thing you do is you try to get some of the you get you get old, you get a littler fish to try to to to go after the big fish, so you give them clean. The alternate testify and was pretty obvious, that your federal, the US attorney's work.

In this case. They were going to go after Bob. He was the one they wanted and his son, so they they start cutting deals with all these people. You know how you're going, and so it got to a point where they were getting closer closer Bob. There was a guy named Travis Perk who he was the main, the main guy far as making meth with the sun. He he hearing after the operation and he The one person who could tie this all together for police well for prosecutors. Excuse me well three days before he was gonna test hi. In fact, in federal court he's been dead, the part and all, of course, as you can imagine, the primary so

aspect was Bob Innoson primary suspects. Well, eventually they don't have any evidence of. He was shot single men and here's the thing to this day. I don't think at the FBI investigated. They haven't released any information about the murder. The only reason I do anything about the murder was actually talked to the guy who found Travis and so anyway. Eventually it got to a culminating point where prosecutors were basically they were going to go after Jerrod really hard and Bob is always really worried that better son being in obviously so uhm. Finally, they cut the deal where Jerry is actually not touch. Targets is back and see. Here's the thing

Bob had never was never charged with Travis's murder, but the drug. If, if you can prove that a homicide was connected to a federal drug case, the enhancements would basically put him in jail for the rest of his life, so through kind of a quark and the law, they got Jerrod on the stand and he testified that his father killed Travis to keep him quiet and so because because they were able to success basically prove that a homicide was attached to this drug ring. Then everything was enhanced, so he's you know, he's gonna be in jail for forty five or fifty years now and he's already sixty. So I mean he's essentially got a life sentence so and then Jerry got a much lesser sentence, the fun you know for his involvement in all this. So

it's just a really. I would say this by way going back just a little bit before he actually got arrested the drug pro he he loved to collect name, american artifacts and obviously there's a there's, a deep and rich native american history. Up in that part of Arkansa uh the town is named Pocahontas I mean so. You know, there's a lot of native Americans that lived there for eight nine thousand years ago I mean it's, they used to hunt and fish along the black River there, and so he collected all this stuff. Well, he needed money for his defense. You know expenses so He he had insurance on on this elaborate native american indian collection and he quite

and then it got stolen. Well, the FBI went to a friends house about twenty five miles away and found all the stuff in the living room. So he got charged with that mail fraud, basically because he had sent the communication to the insurance company, also applying that he had lost this stuff had been stolen, so he I felt peoples all this time. His story is one of the most interesting criminal cases that you will find just because of the family history, his position in life and how it just all just went off the rails for him. Absolutely now you talk about, and we talk about in the opening about the update on the unsolved Rebecca Gould case. Tell us a little bit more about the Rebecca Gould case. Rebecca Gould is a very deeply personal case to Maine

the first murder case. I I was actually out there that they found her body again very rare to see that as a journalist to actually get out with third party- and you know actually find the body when they're out looking for it, and so basically what happened is hi. I I you know I I would call the sheriff's apartments. You know every week, the police, you know you know the routine. You call him up, try to see what's going on. Well, this girl, this twenty year old college student, she banished from friends house on number twenty, two thousand and four in Melbourne Arkansas, and it was just it was kind of a weird case. You drop her friend off at work. She was supposed to go pick up a sister and head back to Northwest Arkansas, where she was

college student and she was intent to the number just visiting friends over the weekend, and so she goes back to a friend's house, collector stuff, and I think that probably take a nap just by the died in just because she felt like a brecht. The same put in a microwave and so in literally was still sitting in there when the police. Finally, you know I went through the house. Well, something happened to her. She vanished her car keys. Were there her purse is there everything was left, but she was gone, and so I you know, I catch wind of this her disappearance and I got to during that week- I I kind of got to know him a little bit her dad is a real, prominent dentist and and nice guy and

and then she got a bunch of systems, and you know they were all of the micro robots, ladies and they were out looking for, and so that means that a week later passport, two weeks later, I'm in Melbourne at the courthouse. I hear some ladies talking about searchers out out into area off the road ask him where they tell me. I go out there and founder, and I saw forget it just again got wrenching, and so I go back to the sheriff's office. Will a rumor started circulate the date bound body and her dad came up to Maine and said: hey? Did they find my dog

and I said I said Larry his name is Laree Guldasta Blair. You really need to talk to the sheriff. He kind of grabbed hold me and he said it again and I was like yes, they did an in my first book that I wrote, which is in West Memphis. I was a little reticent to discuss. Drive her body because I didn't even tell her family that I was writing a chapter about this, and so I kind of just I didn't describe it. I just couldn't 'cause, I didn't know what they knew, what they don't want: people, knowing those kind. Details because it was personal yeah. I'm I met on so in the second book. The Creekside bones

You know I I acted as a kind of an interesting story, side story, so her her case is never been solved. It's basically a cold case. Now she was hit in the head, possibly with a piano leg of all things, and so I that was the last time I saw her dad was during the hold on that day that that her body was found. So I'm doing a book signing at a library into the House April, two thousand sixteen- and that is my first one- was about the West Memphis three case on. You know written like a hundred stories about that case and news stories, and so, but included a chapter about Rebecca, because I in hopes of you- and you know this yeah- all it takes- is for one person to crack this case wide open as it in many cases you know like when Mary Green walked in police station and told the truth that day that broke that case open. So I always think. Ok, if we

get enough stories out there. If we generate enough buzz about eventually, somebody would crack in this case will get solved so and every book signing when I would pitch the book to anybody. I would always at the end, go back to that to this story, and so I'm at this book signing- and I ask this guy- so do you want to buy book, and he says no. This is all about. One thousand am and I'm like okay, so I grabbed ten books and there was a barber for their from a magazine doing a spread on the on my book and I told her heart, but I whispered your. I said whatever I told him I need to tell everybody you know, and so this guy I pulled over the book I got. Who do I need to sign this too and he reaches in his pocket and he pulls out a ribbon with a face on it and it's Rebecca's face and he sets it on the book.

And as soon as he did, I knew who he was when, when I had seen laree you know years before, he was obviously uncapped wearing a hat, not shaving. You know looked a shadow and obvious robbies reasons could find his daughter, and so He, of course I got up a game start crying. You know how that goes, and so to this day, that was about a year and a half ago I see, am I go and see him periodically. I've written story,

is about and giving giving them away for free to newspapers and other publications. Just so they will. That word will still that her. The memory of what happened her doesn't die. It hopefully somebody will come forward this incredible information that can that can solve the case. Absolutely now you talk about this because it is a little misleading that the which is of West Memphis is just about the West Memphis three meaning Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley a convicted in one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. But you include those other stories so Tell- it's a little bit about just the stories that aren't involved with Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin and Misskelley that you've included in which is in West,

office in that book? I I I I I concluded the river. The the the prologue is about Rebecca Gould, what we just talked about and then I included another murder case in there involving eleven year old, named Jessica Williams, and the reason I included that in that book and I'm sure a lot of people who are a lot of your list There's are familiar with the West Memphis three case You know that that case boiled down to a false confession by Jessie Misskelley Junior. If you believe the confession, then you think they're guilty. If you don't believe the confession, then you pick their innocent and so in that it's real interesting case so Jessica. When there's almost the w have proven released from prison on Aug, nine it's two thousand and eleven will almost two years to the day. This little eleven year old girl, Jessica Williams, was play hang in her yard in a lil

how cold calls and all its it's not not far from the Mississippi River AIR and her that she was out with a bike instead of puppy, name rautenbach that she kept in a you know I can little basket on the front of the bike, so she put the puppy in there and she's right around you. Just like little girls do and her debt without second time and she's gone, and they about a rural area that lived on a gravel road, and so he goes out to look for her and within a few minutes he finds her bike on the side of the road, and then he called the police. They spend all night searching Gosnell's, actually, maybe an hours drive from W West Memphis and it's in the actually in the same judicial district as W Memphis, meaning the prosecuting the less than three cases also is also that his territory as well. He prosecutes cases in that

so the next morning, a couple girls on ATV. They find the dog walking about eleven mile down a gravel road, eleven miles from her house. So searchers take the dog back spot where the dog was found and, of course the dog leads them right to her body. She was found in a like a drainage, ditch just off of a bridge and so within twenty four hours, her seventeen year old, Mentale, indigent neighbor, who rode the school bus with her. I got him Chris for sale. He confesses to her murder and even get a couple of details right well, so they give him a two million dollar bond they throw away the key. You know they put him in jail for away the key and everybody the judge put the gag order. So there's no information coming out.

Course. I I know the prosecutor really well over there, and so I talked to him and I kept asking him questions. One thing that does bother me about it was: he didn't, have a car and he was out helping her dad look for her within thirty minutes of her disappearance this Christmas out, and so I am a models that are going to. How did how did he get her out there and then how did he get back in time to help her dad look for, and they said well, this gag order. We can talk about it. You know blah blah blah blah blah well, they found one sperm cell, your body during her autopsy only found one and they DNA tested it and it didn't belong to Christopher S, It belonged to another neighborhood, come home early from work today, who had little kids that played with her, so he got charged with raping a girl

and then eventually after seven eight months. I can't member exactly how much time is spent in jail, but he finally had to release them. In the night time we had to say that he had all we can pass to the girl's murder and I could do it because a lot of people don't think that false confession happened, and I will get that all the time. I know people say I just don't believe in false confessions. I will go and speak to high school groups. I will go and speak to college curves

and one of the questions I will ask them: would you ever confess to a murder you didn't commit and- and I'm telling you right now, every single time I do it. A couple of kids will raise their hands and I'll ask him to come up and I'll say. Why would you do it in a lot of times I'll? Take a look at the police are asking this question. They must think I know something so I'm trying to help them or they say they would do it to try to help a lot or friend and it's very consistent pattern. They all say very similar thing and they all say every every group. I've ever talked to at least one or two handed child, but sometimes more than that. That is incredible. Why we mentioned your book. The which is of West Memphis is because you're back on true murder for in the new year, starting off the new year January. Third, so we're going to

talk about that. What I found interesting, very interesting is that you say you've done about a hundred articles and nobody has written more articles about the West Memphis three case true yeah, that's what I've been told dad. You know. There's been several documentaries made about the case. Documentary. Called West of Memphis when she first started that projects she contacted me, and I asked her why contact today and she said from the research you've done. I had written more stories about it than anyone else. So then I called Joe Berlinger improve Sonosky. You know the two guys who did the Paradise LAS franchise? The three documentary, about the case and Bruce told me he said he said for sure 'cause when they would come to town and they especially when they were filming Paradise, lost three purgatory. You know I would hang out with them. I would do interviews with them and we would go around, and so I knew

I'm really well they're good guys course Bruce, obviously passed away a few years ago, but actually ran into Joe he was, he was a little rock. In April, the state of Arkansas in April was going to execute eight inmates. Because they're the chemicals I used to yet to the lethal injection because they use were about to run out of date, so they catch to kind of a crazy plan to try to kill death row guys, and I ended up killing four, and I was I was there for three of the four executions. But anyway Joe was in Little Rock a Damien. Echols came back. To Arkansa to try to protest against the execution. An in Johnny Depp was with him and it was kind of a weird skeet. I was standing there at the capitol steps. You know this big, protest. Rallies going on here, there's media from all over the country, so it's pretty widely covered. I look over beside the capital steps

Johnny, Depp and Damien Echols and Damien Echols wife Lori's, in there with a couple of bodyguards, and so I just walked over and started talking to him uh of course you know I'd interviewed Eccles. Several times, including volumes on death row so but yeah from the research I've done. I don't even think it's close. As far as how many stories I would I worked at a newspaper in

Jonesboro, where all the rule, thirty seven hearings were held for and those are just post conviction, hearings to try to get new trials, and that had I mean we're talking, hundreds of hours of them being in court trying to get new trials, and I thought it was interesting. You know in your intro, you were talking about TED Bundy. The flu is a code oncologist who id TED Bundy actually testified in West Memphis three case, and I interviewed him Doctor Richard Suberin and, of course, and obviously will go into that, all that and all the other forensic experts who testified in the case, and so basically it was I happen to live. Actually read more stories about that case, the body just because I happen to be my office was you know, just a few blocks away from the court room. So I was there everyday for you know just over seven, or your period. You know they would have a whole week everyday. You know nine to five past them

and so I was the Associated Press. I would do stories for them and for our local newspaper so yeah a very controversial case, obviously, and untrue. Murder. We've handled three different authors with different viewpoints, so we're going to be looking forward to hearing your take on this, which is in West Memphis. I want to thank you very much, George, for coming on the talking about the creekside side. Bones. Do you have a facebook page website where people might look for other work or a facebook page for this book. I have my. I have an author's Facebook Pages, author George Jerit and you can go there, just send me a friend request. I talked to pee where all the time I came to a stunning

conclusion about a year and a half ago that pretty much everybody lives on social media now and so Facebook Instagram stuff, like that? Just about as effective, is having a website nowadays so but yeah they can friend me there that they can get my book. It's on Amazon or at Barnes and noble wherever they want to get him, and I am more than happy, you know, like some of cases, are controversial, specially Westside this three. I have debated many time The people who are on different sides of the issue, and I have no problem doing that you now live. You know there's no way to definitively know what happened to those three kids, but. There. It says: there's a lot of evidence that points in certain directions. It is certainly a case that captivated the imagine nation of audiences and still does to this day, and the responses from those programs have been very heated.

Then very divergent in their opinions, so really looking forward to that January, they're in a in the new year on true murder. Thank you very much. George Garrett Jared for talking about the creek size, squeak side, bones reality is more horrifying than fiction. Thank you very much. George Garrett. You have a great evening, Then you too, thank you very much. Thank you. Goodnight