Streaming only on Peacock John Wayne Gacy build thirty two straight them killers met, they want you who believed in my alone, timidity murders, new gripping six part documentary, Sir John Wayne, Gayle Devil disguise or episode streaming. Now. Only on Peacock Peacock used your true cloud of session with exclusive new originals John, we case double in disguise. Clause can get away with murder and I've seen shut Delay MAX machine heritage. Every Fdi secrets less doubles principle, five theories

snap sign up now: Peacock tv dot com. You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski good evening,. South Florida in the seventies One of the nation's most dangerous locations behind the image of sun and serve Young women were the victims of a brutal killer.

Made seventies over a dozen young women were murdered and founding canals these kids. This became known as the flat tire motors now motors, one case was ever saw. More than four decades had passed. These crimes are, no arrests were ever made. This is the first book to accept for these murders in depth, as well as a bizarre series of murders occurring in the years earlier known as the gold sock Strang links as with the detectives it originally work to solve. These cases, provide an intimate view of the attempt to capture the killer the terror. I sell Florida in a dish. The case cases themselves. The book explore several suspect. Including the infamous serial killer, TED Bundy detail. Of South Florida illustrate the complex canal system that became the victim graveyard. The bookstore featuring this evening is the

flat tire murders. Answer of crimes of a south Florida, serial killer, partial guest of journalists and other Michael Pieper, welcome to the programme, and thank you very much for this interview. Michael P, burns take again to real pleasure to be here Thank you so much very, very interesting case and the corresponding book. Let's get right too, where you grew up and your connection the story I grew up in Miami in here in the nineteen eighteen and nineteen nineties. I really didn't have a connection to the server this particular series of motors until fairly recently, as I talk about in the book. One of the pivotal events in my childhood was the young. The execution in there surrounding chaos regarding TED Bundy, Nike, nine, so that struck

Emily Shaka nerve and any kind of brought to my attention that there already yours, people out there in hand in a bad things happen. But other than that in Miami it was little crime. Italy's where I was, and a very enjoyable I had their so wasn't until recently written became. Aware of What's going on there in the nineteen seventies, you said so you waited to your interest in the in these cases, the canal, because, in the flat tire motors converge with the arrest of the golden state killer, tell us why I've been following your true crying for, years now and the but he's failure lay person the goals they killer, worries monetarism. Became aware of him around twenty you yourselves was before and arrest was made, and I thought

pieces were extremely interesting com. There were very little very little in terms of a physical descriptions. It was just the sort of ghost that was a floating around California, manichean seventies and early making eighties, I guess it became aware of this cases. Became aware of this but the interest in this case it sort of took on a life of its own, and I twenty six Tina California Department of Justice sort of brought this case to the public attention and simply looking for this guy we in up thirty plus years later, we have not forgotten. This is enough. If gaze neighbourly caught my attention as well, so a kind of converged with fear with law enforcement pushing through last, as well as the public interest in the case, and I thought you know what there was an arrest. It really was a awakening for me that cases from forty years ago

and still be solved. Now what was, as you write? What is the purpose, writing this book primarily other than this. To tell this story that I'm told them and people for most part unknown, but what is what you hope to gain from running this more, I hope everything that happened with sir, these very reticent gold, secular, due to bring public attention to these cases in autumn, We need to have some sort of resolution in terms of solving the cases it Osborne, I do realise the limitations of of law enforcement, but the fact that these cases just sort have been forgotten really struck a nerve with me, and so I definitely want the public to know that these cases happened at these victims are not forgotten right now, in this book of these,

South Florida canals. Are you right as abundance, palm trees and swimming pools? Tell us about these self Florida now. What is their purpose, and why They saw a prominent yeah here. The canals and intel fodder are ubiquitous, sure, you'll drive a few miles and you'll see several in all along the way they basically drain. The marshy land of suffered out the Atlantic Ocean. They also provide defence. Its potential flooding due to hurricanes, which you know you have a severe hurricane like the one in the making twenties it. They killed thousands of people they were designed to drain south Florida make it habitable land which it did and when there are twenty six hundred miles of canals, crisscrossing cellphone Like her, I agree the arteries and the

Sort of move the water westward the eastward out to the Atlantic Ocean, so How's the canals are everywhere, and I remember you know as a child, they were a lot of fun for fishing or is always a place to go and she wanted to fish But they were. They were dangerous as well. We know with what sometimes fallen, but they were just a part of life. Still remain a part of life for most people in South Florida. You talk about the Yourself Florida. Climb explosion in the seventies serve tell us a little bit about that explosion. How canals were involved as well back to the canal, just to point out the day they get dredged in We are basically when they drag him. They fight defined everything from aeroplanes to two parts to Iraq. Cars bodies

The canals are basically a dumping ground for people that, while even reduced offers, got a thing. I don't want anyone ever find so that they really are. Quite interesting wondered when their dredge you'll find pretty much everything, but in the nineties seventies. There was a huge explosion of crime in fell forward, particularly you dated Brower County. It was shocking to me, because I had a sort of bucolic view of software back then, but in terms of crime in eighteen. Seventy five flora itself had the third highest crime rate in the United States and in eighteen. Seventy five bade was the fourth frozen per capita and bowed with six than the United States. So there was definitely the huge crime explosion. I think Foreshadowed a bit by gets the over overlooked because of the nineteen eighties drug epidemic in and crime surrounding at, but, as I know,

in the book even before the nineteen eighties crime was was, was after charges afford you, you write about the illness in the sixties, new chronicle of these spectacular cases, em down victims, are before we get to the. The canal murders in the flat tire murders of nineteen, seventy five and nineteen. Seventy six so tell us why, they were dubbed the canal murders in the flat tire murders before we we start going through the victims and what in early nineteen, seventy five year did they do got the name- the canal murders, because all of the victims were found either near or in canals with with one or two exceptions, but it was, it was basically a series

Of young girls, all sort of splitting of general appearance, some his youngest as fourteen or three there were fourteen years old on that one around in or near canals in making seventy five one after the other at the name, the canal, murders by the local media. Back then the flat tire murders were a sort of a subset of of those murders and they occurred in the sum of making seventy five. When two women, Ronnie Doyle and analyse rap were basically tricked because your car tyres would fly It is a mall in the county, and other bodies were found the next day in canals and police. I think, logically concluded eyes were deflated. They were offered help until they were murdered, so those are the flat tire murders

Let's go through some of the canal murders and the risks of the killer and in some of these characteristics of the victims. Sure. Like I mentioned, the victims were were quite young three it for fourteen years old. One was seventeen two were ninety These were these were young women. They were not prosecute its or drug attics, they were pretty much suburban teenage girls, some were were engaged to be married. One was married, There were no issues in terms of you know. Abuse or, or anything like that, and then they were sounds like a said, and in canal in South Florida different different ways: they were killed, but sure to making seventy five a series of young

young women in the suburbs or murdered Drownded canals how do police begin their investigation in murders you. You mention one crime that we saw them due to them are stealing from Russia. In Indiana ERA,. Tell us what exactly Women were up. Where they were in their lives where they were in a position to be sure, approached what was approved. Sure Judith Austerlitz was making years. But she was from Indiana she kind of left left Deanna came down, afforded to look for adventure for her new life and she began working at a health spot, which was a sort of a generic term,

that was given to places it sometimes were fronts for prostitution. We don't know what she did at the place that she worked, but in January nineteen. Seventy five she was, she was found nude in a canal, Along? U S twenty seven drowned in beaten answered. That was really the first case that got the attention of law enforcement may put a lot of effort into investigations investigating and suspects, working negation and eventually paid off later, but I that was the only case that was ever solved. Then you talk about the barber Davis steed who was twenty three years old, and she was last seen February, twelfth nineteen. Seventy five hundred and. Details of her murder A barber was easier. Miami native she was

I'm married to her high school sweetheart, but they had separated and he had moved to Hollywood California on February 12th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy five. She went The gold triangle department store near your day, mall in Miami Schmid, purchase rock and roll records and she disappeared. A body wasn't found until several days you're out behind a shopping center, I was away and the autopsy determine that she had been stabbed multiple times, She was a very attractive young woman. Blood aired with routes in Miami to her father how to choose a native. She was not like to devote your lincoln sort of it had set up shop and myself were too. She was a native in in her motor. I was really heavily investigated and David. We found her body after extensive searches,

was another aspect to it as well that someone had said something that police considered, he must have been a witness, and then it was an there. As a message on a concrete wall as well tell us a little bit about that sure police were were looking into close an interview, people after they found her body, and they noticed that a magic marker had been used to write the following. Words on Wall girl was killed here and I saw it with an exclamation point after at which clearly would get law enforcement attention they put a lot of effort into finding out who possibly could have written that and eventually determined that it was a prank from a from a teenager who broke down in tears when he was finally confronted by law enforcement about that, but that just kind of shows it could be kind of

That being the case, is there may sometimes be some some hot leads and end, but be pursued, but they ve never really amounted to much, except in due to case Barbara Stevens Murder in Miami. You write about area Marie shot thinker, seventeen. She was seen in April knife had a strong. That's was known to be frequented by the outlaws motorcycle club. What what what happened here when, when she found give us the particulars, yes area, the pink was a seventeen year old married woman, She was a mother is well. She had an infant at home and then she was dropped off at the Hippopotamus restaurant in Fort Lauderdale. After spending a day there on a day at the beach she disappeared, and she was eventually found in these snake creek Canal near you

Twenty seven on April, ninth, making seventy five it was really unclear as to the cause of death. Eventually, it was determined as she drowned, and it is unclear whether there was fall foul play, but it leads to a US the real question: how did this woman with no car in the drowned in a very, very remote canal, near a? U s? Twenty seven Judith Austerlitz was also found in the snake. Creek analyses that correct that correct and that we can now be parallel to yours. Twenty seven- and I talk about U S. Twenty seven in the book and it's very isolated road. It really is a just a corridor between Central Florida down to date and brown counties his lot of agriculture around their sugar cane things like that, but

it's really not a road that you people are starving and stop for shopping or anything it's really isolated road. So we found out There- and I can always was definitely unusual. You mention now. Nancy leaflets was nineteen years old and this June them very much if only differ them area,. Area. Marie. Thank her. This problem Britain was walking home how she found and what were some of the differences, especially from area in terms of condition, Sure Nancy was was nineteen years old. She thought about a troubled relationship with her boyfriend and her sister and done June fourteenth making seventy five she disappeared, while walking at night in Fort Lauderdale.

Here she was found a few days later again in a canal near you have twenty seven near the Sagres recreational area which a sort of a public park. I have arable, rides but again a very remote area and yes, he had been hit on the head and choked serve as a different between our modern and area, thinkers where this tinker simply was drowned out in that remote canal. But in this case there was definitely signs of foul play with the whipping it on the head and choked. Right that the public is becoming aware of the round this time and then you, introduced Barbara Schreiber fourteen and the windows at a rover. Fourteen we're friends tell us what happens on June eighteenth, faithful night, the US this was the case that really indicated it there,

There was something going on, because these two girls, Barbara Shivering and airlines, that are our were fourteen friends enough before Lauderdale area in them. On June, eighteen making seventy five: they told their parents spend the night at each other's houses and a lie: they wanted to get out and can walk around and have some fun, and they take this peered in it was unclear as to whether they were trying to hitchhike, but they were found the following day again at a cannon: how long you have twenty seven both shot to death. Really no motive. Police interviewed all kinds of individuals, including their friends, and really there was nothing to go on, except for a coup that was found that turned out to be a dead end, so they were both shot in June. In

innovation. Seventy five! You read about next about Robin Leslie, lush she's, fourteen years old, she vanishes on July. Tell us what her condition is and is there any connection with these other bodies that are like you right five miles south aware Belinda's at Roar and Barbara Schreiber and that's a fox were discovered well yet, if he thought in the Bible, Shirburn Darling zero hour, were found very close together in the calendar years. Twenty seven sword it sort of seem that there was a a spot that some water or, as some people were deciding to dispose of it. How do you see in this very remote area, but Robin like good our new Schreiber work was only fourteen

She was there, she was walking on July, eight make very fine. She disappeared. She was discovered, two days later again in a canal you're: U S, twenty seven, determine that she drowned and it was uncle. Here's to whether there was any fair play so and of like Thea them. That's a very tinker, a girl. Fourteen years, all with no cars found found drowned in a very, very remote canal and far far Westerner Power County. At any rate as well, that there was suspicious because she drowned, but she was an excellent swimmer, let's the two Ronnie Sue, Garland twenty seven year old, very integral part to this, while everyone's important stoiber cheese, especially important story July. Twenty second, she disappeared. What was different about the her condition

of her body. What had happened? All Ronnie was one of the older dictum. She was twenty seven years old. She was engaged to be me I do a mayor in Albania and she was back in self water, with her family and in HOLLAND, and on June twenty second eighteen, seventy five she visited her mother in law hospital in there She was going to visit her mother. She never showed up they later found her car at the one hundred sixty Threerd Street Mall, with a flat tire shoe She was gone. They eventually found her body nude. The canal and Western they county? A few days later and connection with sea, subsequent murder of Elise RAP, which will talked about in a minute really had told the police there is.

Something sinister going on? There is somebody using this package to to abduct women Now you right at this time. You are made not at this time, but you read about when he, twenty, that reserve, police officer named Charles Mussolini, or muscling believed at TED Bundy was the best suspect in running death. Is this because of the bite marks yet the bite marks, as well as the the emotion of approaching a woman in a parking lot offering to provide assistance, definitely told this detective at TED Bundy needed to be concerned. It is as a possibility. There were bite marks

Ronnie, coiling, she'd been bitten, choked and round, and most bite marks eventually work. Compared from what I can tell the Christopher Wilder and TED Bundy doesn't appear that there is more in the records that I reviewed as to whether there was a match or are they couldn't compare them? But, yes, the bite, my as was the imo indicated, that TED Bundy was definitely a viable suspect, now, one week after Ronnie Garlon is dumped in a canal. You say he struck again the killer struck again with near the same method of killing and we talked about Elsie. Wrap twenty one years old. What was the near same method are identical method in Europe. In your eyes and other peoples,

you're. A lease web was twenty one years old and she was she's from New York, and she really enjoyed southward ass though she was working down. Here is a secretary and down on July Thirtieth, making seventy five eight days after Ronnie Gore them was murdered on at least left her home and never came back, and the police eventually found her car again at the hundred sixty Threerd Street mall with a flat tire. She was found on the following day: and basically the same canal as has Ronnie girl, and she also had been hit on the head and drowned and there were there on her. That indicated, this was a sexual assaults. Are that the embryo of of flattening attire and offering assistance or somehow getting he's these women to come with come with the killer was? Was almost identical? Bodies were placed in nearly

location? Interestingly, they both have a license plates on their car, which indicated that they were rentals or leases. They were definitely similarities with the police picked up on and their conclusions to this with those two words were definitely related as was some others, but these are definitely the strongest bitter that are related. And the least had also been sexually mutilated, as well as well as one garland as well. That was one the characteristics. Wasn't it correct, release rap Four genitals were were stabbed in them, and there is definitely a you know it conclusion by them they county medical, dominated the bite marks on Lonnie Berlin in me,

the mutilation of valise, rap connected them in terms of both being sex crimes, but being a very aggressive attacks, a very sadistic attacks on these women. So yet it would definitely markers there were similar between both. You say too that the girls looked like an appearance and but for some reason maybe explaining the competence. Drawings were not released. Publicly yeah, B B, composites were never publicly released it. They did. Law enforcement did take some of the composites, especially in the two flat tire murders to people at the hundred, sixty Threerd Street Mall, the interviewed them

you get an idea of who may have been around when these when he's motors occurred, but really nothing ever release publicly came of this in terms of descriptions or possible vehicles, but there were some composites that were alluded to at least, but they were not released. Look we now the police serve are beginning. There segregation me I'm in Miami NEWS offers a reward of six thousand dollars dozens right in the sky. There are tat being followed by suspicious men and flat tyres in shopping centres enough, All of nineteen seventy five- you write brought more body, so one particular Linden Hamilton, sixteen years old. What but the particulars, if there was any difference in this crime little Linda was found a bit further north in Florida,

kind of a similar situation. Worry a young girl was, was found, murdered and dump. Eventually, job Steno, who is a flawed, a serial killer at the time who confessed layer to forty one murders. I admitted in eighteen. Eighty one that he killed, plunder- the time police were looking looking anywhere, think Maybe this cure it moved north and Florida, but Events De Mr stand out did they confessed and he was executed in coordinating ninety eight. You write by there was another body in December making when he five use. Say that by the end of nineteen, seventy five, how many young women were were connected or were murdered in that time span with one day solve with one case solved, there were at least thirteen victims.

Then we'll go through some more, but five definitely linked by the released by the medical examiner. As that we being related, but there were there were thirteen victims in eighteen, seventy five and early nineteen. Seventy six, Indeed, Brown county right ended its police. They didn't realize That's the same person had killed money Gordon end, at least rap Thy correct that correctly. They definitely link those two cases in the past. The police were trying to put together, put together the puzzle Looking at these other murders, all of them similar characteristics in terms of the victims, the locations at the bar? these were found, these girls basically just disappeared. There was no evidence, any kind of altercation or abduction. These were not home invasions or anything of tat sort. It really seemed

it is from my review the case. This was somebody who is decent. Looking good good talker get these women to become comfortable and come with him and before he murdered them. So if they were definitely enacting the garland unwrapped cases in putting these other killings that occur verse near in time. Altogether is as a series of martyrs right, but This is an opportunity to stop for a second there from our sponsor, which is, if recruiter according to Forbes, gems, nails, lawns, hotels, mom and pop stores and more said to go on an epoch, hiring spree in the coming months to meet the pent up man for all of these services. I was excited like everyone to be able to go to see a movie at the movie theater, I got to see stand up. I went back to my German had a son after a long time. Yet

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segregation with the body count police really one of them, what their boots off their word. Interviews me faithfully In fact, it every year registered sex offender attempted to go through the the case I wasn't fines and similarities and find some evidence that would lead them to to a possible suspect or a person of interest, but really there was there was not a lot in terms of progress in these cases, in the nineteen in nineteen. Seventy five and one thousand nine hundred and seventy six was a lot of legwork. It was a lot of interviews a lot of file review meetings, attaining the ground and and trying to find out whether there were any way This is clearly a visa abductions, so there is a lot of work done, but there was not not a lot of results for it. You talk about Judith Austerlitz, the twenty

your that was killed and thrown in the canal person confessed to the crime. Who was that tell us that incredible story? or as is as these canal murders were, were piling up. The first photos of really kind of set everything off lease was due to so sterling in January, one thousand nine hundred and seventy five and by the end of nineteen, seventy five police. If they're great credit had been In these cases, you know not putting them on the shelf, putting a lot effort into solving them. They went back to Judith Boss and your place of employment at the tiger health spot in that They county and under interrogation. They eventually got a confession. From a shoe Jane Walter, she confessed that she and her boyfriend head the had killed, Judith and dumped her body and canal. Next, to you has twenty seven as the result of a

sexual assault. The Judith attempted to resist so now you have a victim's Marlene, Anna Belly twenty six years old, you last seen October twenty six, the twenty second pardon me, and reported missing October twenty fifth: what is the state of of but before we talk about very popular Michel winters an elite mulatter memes? What are somewhere the risks of their of their killings, well Marlene was was twenty six years old and she was married but estranged from her husband in them she had purchased. A vacation package, so she came down from up north. You have a short vacation in Fort Lauderdale end.

She was missing from our hotel for several days until she was found on October. Twenty second thousand. Seventy five out my field in western bright had brown county. She had been strangled with with rope in police suspected that she might have been abducted somewhere either on the beach or or near the beach when she out there so and they found the body they found, the She was strangled, but there really were no leads in that case either. So you would you I'm about to marry, copper and the shell. Winters what was their fate and if there was any difference in some of the conditions where they were found or the conditions in which they were killed. Harry was: was only fifteen years old, Mary Cobbler, He was going to a king counselling centre

she ran away from home previously, but again nothing really to two out of the ordinary in terms of thought. In terms of her lifespan and though she had a family at home in on September. Second, making seventy five she disappeared on her way to that counselling centre and she was not found until New year's day of my concern, six. She was near now, but the location was in homestead, which is the far south of the county, so not in the same location is the other victims, but again fitting the age profile in India method of of just simply disappearing, while walking somewhere leads to the conclusion that she may have been talked into and going with someone you heard about Michel Winter, seventeen, she was last December thirtieth and her but he was far January tenth floating again in the snake. Creek canal strangled whether approached wrapped around her neck. Also

Skype around her neck, many. These women are in the water clothes, but all There is something that it speaks: the trophy keeping tell us about the jewelry of something missing. Something remains yes in the year in the flat tire murders of any girl in the least RAP Ronnie, was missing. Sandal, some other victims, we're missing hearing they were found with one hearing and condemn and the other one was missing. Small smuggler items from the victims were unaccounted for in the shells There was a ring that the best he always had. That was taken on a sort of leads to the conclusion that these were. These were definitely taken by whoever killed them as as potential trophies

remind them of what they did so Michel Adam had a missing ring. She had gotten from her father. She never never took it off and it was. It was miss, so yeah there's definitely evidence of somebody taking items from the victims. Armani leaves them and it seems that the with with many of these victims there were differences in this and some of the people that were able to describe this perpetrator, you site cases along in this investigation, where what matters involved. You know, so there is different. Descriptions of perpetrators and some many cases again involving the canal. You also have cases where disabling vehicles in different ways, so it is seems incredible to me and is, as you go along in the book, then you start talking about

possible suspects in this, which include the very famous TED Bundy, but all people like stand idle and Christopher, other another infamous serial killers. That certainly possibly operated as at the same time in the same area. So what the things that are police are faced that Again this you talk about that after nineteen, so seventy six that basically this this thing distinguished call right that there was a lot of effort put into these cases in eighteen, seventy five and in that drop down in eighteen. Seventy six, the effort that was able to be put into these cases- and I think, when you look back at the crime explosion in software and then eighteen seventies, it was simple. Overwhelming, so there was only so much so many resources that could be put towards these cases in the day

they went from hot to warm to cooling off and then and then eventually corridors as they are today. So I'm police were not able to the vote this time and resources as the new cases rolling in constantly so by the end of making seventy six. These cases Sort of remained a curiosity. What happened why? Why did all this happened in eighteen? Seventy five? and they were no closer to getting to getting their their suspect than they worth beginning such an do. Those drawings case. Now, as ass time went on, there were suspects in this case the new chronicle all of the viable suspects that police considered, but tell us about the case of the turkey case. As you in nineteen, seventy five Sadly, I'm a cop had gone to this

of a woman named cookies, mutilated body in the canal and borders tell us about this incredible suspect endless. Of this young woman, Verona Canal. Yes. Judith Kersey was murdered in that in making seventy seven and dumb exceeding united the eight she was found also in canal near? U S twenty seven! She was a bit older shoes, thirty two, but there were there signs that she was sexually mutilated and definitely a sex crime in nineteen. Eighty five to form a police officer, name Sally on wiser was showing photographs, Miss curses body to various women on english guy, I'm in trouble, but it turns out and in making seventy eight. He went to the sea of Miss crises, the recovery of her body it had some photograph. So it was a very

bizarre incident as to why he would be displaying these these photographs, nothing. Never came of it. He was never charged with anything related to any homicides, but it was just a very bizarre Since it is one of several in terms of suspects in this case because said these would get a sort of a whiff of somebody being involved, but it never never turned in anything concrete like many people when we talked about these dairy rapists, golden stay killer case that advanced Dna near the turn of the century interested police enough to this to say that possibly some of these this is to be opened up again with the latest dna technology. Tat was little bit about that hope and what dna

may find in this particular case. Well, yeah deal the Gordons they killer case when it was when the Angela was arrested, and twenty eighteen really shocked me that that something that all could be solved and, in these cases upon reviewing the medical geometers reports. It appears that there could be biological evidence that was taken when it's been preserved properly or what the condition of it. I still don't know at this point, but there is a definite an indication that these and retreated aspects crimes and they went through the standard sex crime, evidence gathering techniques in the nineteen. Seventy assuming that those those samples are still preserved. I would think and hope that that something can be done with DNA, perhaps similar to what what eventually cause just the Angelo

Let's uses Albertini stop for a second for these messages, streaming only on Peacock John Wayne Gacy build thirty two straight than killers map. They want you who believed, in my alone, timidity murders, new gripping six part documentary, Sir John Wayne, Gaze Devil, disguise or episode streaming now only on peacock, besides incredible amount of victims and the differences between the victims in the different areas where these victims were attacked. In some cases he also had a suspicion that this killer, traveled somewhere else and and many crimes and other areas and those that are crimes, that similarities to the flat Irma in the canal, murders, in that you look at- and we mentioned earlier about the infamous TED Bundy being considered A couple of these murders are many of these murders, but also

other infamous serial killers were considered, including joy. Schaefer I'll stay. No Christopher Wilder tell us about. Some of these people and why they were considered and in what way- yeah Christopher Wilder and in tat, but You were the two to name but came up in the air and the medical examiners notes in the flat tire case. Christopher Wilder was it was a serial killer who began his car. Spray and nineteen. Eighty four which, It was his with issue a cyber. He killed a number of girls across the country and eat. He was somewhat funding, and that he would be very presentable, I'm and will present himself as a talent, agent or modeling agent, and was able to talk women into coming with him, and he worked in I've been in power county in the seventies,

during that time there were rape accusations, there's a kidnapping case that was brought against him kidnapping. Such a sixteen year old and a seventeen year old, so at least by night, in eighty wilder was: was moving towards them more serious crime, so he was there and in eighteen. Seventy seven indefinitely deserve some attention in a they give him attention from what I've seen in that and reports. What about TED Bundy you talk about an officer. There was asking for specific from TED, Bundy and TED Bundy then said to them. I say to this point if I get convict the leech case- bleach murder. I will tell you what happened, from that agreement, what was gained if anything from that Ted Bundy is a very interesting suspect. A lot of people dont know that he

you ve been in Miami in nineteen sixty eight when he was twenty two years old, as well as a delegate for Nelson Rockefellers nominee mission republican nomination, so he had been to Miami emanating Sixtys when the when he was tried in Miami in nineteen. Seventy nine, a detective who investigated the flat tire murders, went to go speak with with Bundy at his jail cell in in in Dade County and based on the detectives recollection of the event seem. Like Monday, I had some understanding and ended a nerve with him regarding flat. Higher murders, and he said yes, all up I'll speak with you about bad if unconvicted, but but nothing ever came of it afterwards, and we all know that that Bundy, especially on during his time in prison like to play games with police, so whether you

does any philosophy behind. That statement will probably never know, but there is definitely interest in Burundi. In the flat tire murders, also because the bite that were found on Ronnie Garlon. There were more than the one police officer, though they believed that Bundy was responsible just other than the bite mark Was there any other reason why they were the two detectives you're still still alive, both to this day, I believe that had Monday was shifted profile to a t These people believe that the same modus operandi Bundy used in his western United States murders was almost identical to what

to release rapid Ronnie Golan when you're cause were disabled, being able to talk a woman in the coming with them. Definitely shit, Bundy's approach violence from them medical examiner reports. They did look at Monday based upon those bite marks on whether that indicated that he was involved or not. He always denied to the end there is there is nothing in Miami that he was guilty of so, but these detectives believes it has stated that it was likely him You include, and we didn't talk about this- was in the beginning of the book. You talk about the gold sock strangling and the Miami strangler why for we talked about the canal murders in the flat tire murders did you include these crimes in this war? sure it is really set. The scene arm ass,

Twice the crime explosion in in her suffered emanating seventies. Further, the canal murders and in the flat tire murders there was a series of six tramplings which involved a sock being strangled being height around a woman's neck? To there victims and that that occurred in making seventy three. Proceeding that was, there was an incident known as the Miami strangler from nineteen sixty four to making seventy. There were about tat ten victims and in those cases, they all were identified as being similar and be connected, but never conclusively- and I think that's a limitation based the forensic evidence gathering tools that were available in the nineteen seventies, but definitely patterns of murders over think period of time or identified even before that, the flat tire canal. Murders occurred you right

both the flat tire murders in you, include, interestingly, in the books disdain tension, then that there were many other. When all centre that are caught and better arrested debt are suspected that are that get of that escape, but you I was if that, with some of these perpetrator, showing say a police badge. So when you about the flat tire murders and at the same moment, of these vehicles, comes to mind the house, strangler ends and so that sort of ammo is. Do you think that the police ruse, might have been part of these abductions kidnapping. Definitely, definitely I think that the possibility I think you're? A good illustration is, is TAT Bundy's arrest in making seventy five

when you talk when he attempted to adopt it. The girl to launch what he did was walked up to, and I told her I was having broken induce you to come with him, could use an undercover cop and we're gonna Falada report. He venture he asked him what you got a little suspicious kid. You have any identification and flash the badger and his course was a fake badge then she continued to go with him. So I think in in this cases and fell forward. It is definitely the possibility that these young girls at work in some of them fourteen years old fifteen. I would respond to somebody in a better position of have authority or pretending to be in a position of authority to get them to go with them. Right about the latter, murders and the canal murders. You say that They may be entirely unrelated.

Why not tell us about this? Conundrum? Yes, That's really does the puzzle of of this obvious cases which, which victims are connected. How they can. Medical examiner believe, based medical evidence that five of them were were connected. The two strongest there were connected were Elise, Rapid, Ronnie, Gorlin Those were nearly identical crimes on both cars at the hundred sixty Third mall flat tyres and found a eight days apart, so, regardless of how many cases are connected and how strong? I definitely believe that there is somebody in south for at this time with us, with the incentive of abducting Murmuring women. You know when I look at all the similarities between some of these serial killers.

And you want to just it up the coincidence, but is there the possibilities, it They read the news like everyone else, and there are even more avid fans of true crime reporting. Would they be influenced? Would they take, clues what they want to be included when they try to throw the be sent off themselves by, having similarities to these known killers that are being hunted. Is there any that in this. I think that that I think he put it very well and remind me of them The Angelo who was a police officer- and he knew what jurisdictions to go any new, that the procedures for crop criminal thus the geisha any use that as Advantageth advantage to do. He did and innovate capture. I think I think something or may have occurred in these This is where, like you said that somebody was was very aware of white clues,

being gathered. Who is being interviewed, and, I think, also another factor is? Perhaps there is a knowledge that the pudding body? Water is a good way to get rid of some forensic evidence so yeah There is definitely somebody that was very soon. She hated it. Wasn't it wasn't a psychopath, it wasn't a deranged per. In which some of the media. Could I'm kind of tried to play this up, as it was really a whole calculating person like a like a Bundy or some other other serial killers? Did that plan things out and are very careful about what they're doing you talk about? dna technology possibilities. Do you know the status of that There is enough, as you write and biological, by biological evidence to be able to conduct dna

then you know the status of that testing. Well, that's it! That's a great question and in I've I've Doug plenty in terms of work were trying to get the medical earlier evidence from the police and when I was doing this, it was during the covert epidemic how things really suffered down quite quite dramatically, so there was, limit on what was available, but I definitely think that some of these some of these cases have evidence that can still be tested. Tat reflected also and the young some of the case like change rose, who was recently confessed to earn linking seventy five voter in twenty, eight based upon DNA, so they're doing law enforcement is is looking at this. Dna route as a way to solve these cases.

You say that even of dna technology cannot capture this killer and, of course, we get back to the purpose of your brook and very fascinating in depth, analysis what else happen in your mind. You talk about that. Maybe something Someone's adding that they might not have considered before tell us what might happen in your mind from this What might happen is is somebody who knows something me may be triggered. And remember event, a person in item. That may be significant that maybe they forgot about or discarded. No in years past and they may come forward even if there is no dna evidence that at least have these cases in the public discourse in having people look at them. I think, is an imp

similar to what happened with with the Joseph, the Angelo, where there were people. There were pressing this case and saying that You know we're not giving up on this and will do what we can. Whether were sort of launching detectives or or just the general public to do to solve these cases. Are there not forgotten. It was very interesting in real time to be able to interview detail if they were involved in these very rate, this case right from the very beginning interview, them again when it looks like something was happening with the FBI in terms of actually solving this case, which was seemed incredible scene, almost unbelievable and then speaking to those people involved, those detectives after he was captured. It was just amazing really that that way,

to be able to do something so incredibly enables seemed almost unbelievable. I think the people in the true crime genre certainly and law, while yet in the day and twenty eighteen when when he was arrested, my my joy at the floor- and I was I Stunned and scrambled the fine but I could online and just term just it blooming, way because it was it was from so long ago. Forty four, Plus years and the message that they used to. The tracking down we'll just to just incredibly fascinating, and I think it goes to show that law enforcement is working behind the scenes and a lot of what we don't know You know there. Maybe things that are going on were not aware of it, but I think that the public eye on things is always a good idea. I think you write to the tea the case itself did so

for law enforcement, morale and the FBI's reputation and just he's so much hope to cry solving and and the promise of dna, which has been remarkable. Really. Our comparative of all the other forensics of em teachers available to think it. So there are some He dedicated people that can't let these cases go Amber like yourself, where you even vested in this, investigation, and you would like to see some dramatic results. And so I hope, the very best for you, Thank you very much like overcoming on and talking about, the flat tire murders, unsolved crimes of the South Florida. The real killer for people that might want take a look at the rub. Amazon page Facebook page tell us how they might take a look at this more sure the book is available on Amazon is also he books version

come on twitter at the flat murders. I have read it and Facebook so people want to send the comments and I'm certainly available there, and I look forward to bring some people, and I hope this book you know is his sleeping. That's that brings he's cases to the to the public fight That's the term admirable endeavour. Thank you. Sir Much Michael P burns the flat tire murders unsolved crimes of the South Florida. Real killer in fast. Thank you. So much Michael, you have a great evening. Thank you. Thank you.

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