Fred Rosen follows a killer’s trail back in time 2 decades to discover how a monster slipped through the legal systemWhen police in Tampa, Florida, arrested Larry Singleton in 1997 for brutally murdering prostitute Roxanne Hayes, they soon realized it wasn’t the man’s first violent attack. Back in 1978 he had gained notoriety as “the Mad Chopper” for raping and cutting off the arms of 15-year-old Mary Vincent on a patch of desolate, sun-scorched land 5 miles off the highway near Modesto, California.When Singleton was let out of prison on supervised parole after serving only 8 years for his crimes, no community in California would accept him. He eventually moved back to his home in Florida, where he killed Hayes nearly 20 years after his original crime. But his first victim, Vincent, had survived, walking nearly a mile to get help after the assault, and testified against him at his trial for murdering Hayes. THE MAD CHOPPER: How the Justice System Let a Mutilator Free, This Time to Kill-Fred Rosen
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer crime, history, room murder with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening. Fred Rosen follows a Killers trail back in time two decades to discover how a monster slip through the legal system when police in Tampa FL arrested, Larry Singleton in nineteen. Ninety seven,
brutally murdering prostitute Roxanne Hayes They soon realized it wasn't the man's first violent attack back in nineteen. Seventy eight. He had gained notoriety as the mad chopper for rape, and cutting off the arms of fifteen year old Mary Vincent on a patch of desolate Sunscorch land five miles off the highway near Modesto. California wow. Singleton was let out of prison on supervised parole after serving only eight years for his crimes know commute, the in California would accept him? He eventually moved back to his home in Florida, where he killed Hayes. Nearly twenty years after his original crime, but his first victim Vincent had survive. Walking nearly a mile to get help after the assault and testified against him at trial for murdering Hayes the book cover featuring this eve.
Is the mad chopper how the justice system, let a mutilator free this time to kill with my special guest, Fred Rosen welcome to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, Fred Rosen good evening, Fred, good evening, Fred Rosen good evening, hello, hello, Fred, good evening, good evening Dan? How are you fine? Thank you we have another caller. So I guess, if someone just listen,
in so welcome to the program. Will move back Fred well, but it's my pleasure. I cannot. I know what was happening while it was a problem. That's that's the NSA making troubled, and you know I mean ok sure. Well, that's good! More listeners, the better hey! well. You know I never thought about that. They could be listening. Washington. Sure that right. Uh well, yeah we're not supposed to get political. I suppose right know how you Dan, how are you, Fine, thank you Fred. How are you busy? As usual? I see yes, sir. Yes, sir, I am an, It was funny because I reread the you know the man chopper today and you know because, unlike some people who do
But you do you actually read the book, an ask credibly intelligent questions. An I gotta tell you when I got to the end of it- and I know I wrote it- I have tears in my eyes because of Mary Vincent absolutely. I mean it was really something- and you know I haven't looked- are up lately and will you know obviously we're going to talk about it? But you know it's very, very interesting. You know how these things play out and how the justice system works regardless of the country and I'm very.
Where is that? Thank God you have listeners all over the world, and so it's not just a question of what happens in the United States. It's Canada, it's Australia! It's it's! It's! It's England! It's Germany! You know we're all in this together. Now, let's get to the the question, I always ask as I'm curious what exactly brought you this opportunity to do the book to match up or how did you come to this book? Well, this is the end of the day in reading again and reading the book. Again it reminded me this is pretty unique. What happened Lars it's twenty years ago? Okay, and what happened was
my daughter had just been born, and I was in Valparaiso in waiting people upstairs to the NEO Natal unit, two two colder meter, you know: and before we went upstairs. I had a local paper and I'm reading the local paper, and then I see the picture of this dude Larry Singleton staring up at me from page three. I remember what paper it was, but it doesn't make any difference. Can I start eating an. It says that the that this guy had been captured in until four county Florida, which is the Tampa area four. For murdering a prostitute, an I had written a book. Whole lobster boy there about crime there Ann Yeah I I went she this is, you know, you know, I know these people and stuff.
And you know I know all the cops and the prosecutors and so forth and what happened was Dan. It was serendipity. I got a phone call from my editor pulled Dennis who that time was the editor in Chief of Kensington Books, and this fella pulled Dennis is largely responsible for the way that true crime It became a popular genre and pull shit to me, Fred. I was just reading the feel of the New York of the Daily NEWS, a New York newspaper and he said, there's a front page story about a guy called the man chopper. I should write your so the same picture. You said that your next book I said what- and I told him what my daughter just open porn Ann, I said well, this seems a little bit violent even for me, and he goes Fred you just
became a father. You need work and that's how this book came about amazing. Now, let's get to let's get the Berkeley ca where you set the speech is this one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight University of California a very unique university in incredible time, one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight, and this is versus California say across the bay from San Francisco Ann and yet she sets, though this fifty year old girl, Mary Vinson Fifteen years old she had As you've set the background, she had a companion named Diego Montea and I RA MIKE Lee very bizarre Lee he was accused. Raping a different fifteen year old girl, but she was dedicated to him- and so she decided to help him out anche- he was going to see her lawyer in
Marin County, civic center Ann. She called her grandfathers didn't have any money. Ricker Vincent in LOS Angeles, and she said she was going to visit him- ask him to get some money, so She was hitchhiking and she had hitchhiked and she got to what they call hitchhikers corner so take from there, what happened at hitchhiker's corner and who she meets. Well. What happens is then she she's a hitchhiker's corner which is a place on the University of California Berkeley's campus, where kids would go to pay checks and a dude pulls up pulls up in a van and uh. And he says where you going and she says I'm going to LOS Angeles, blah blah blah, and this guy is a guy with uh. I love this word bulbous, nose and
he's he's in his old he's in his early 50s Ann And uh is you know, but he speed that all guys very well built and uh. A seem pretty innocent enough Anne she gay. It's in the car with him and next thing. You know you know they're driving through you know they. They leave Berkeley, which is of course, which is east of San Francisco and he's really supposed to go south. You know to get to LOS Angeles, but he keeps calling each and she gets very suspicious, like what's this about, and he gives us some bs story and eventually he takes her to a house. Uh we're his house. That
He has any what he does is, he said. Listen, he says if you help me load some stuff into the van I'll give you some money and I'll take yourself a list Angelus Okay, so they go to the house, she load the stuff into the van, and a lot of it is dogs believe it or not. They get back in the in the Van and he starts imbibing from a gallon jug and I didn't know people do this sort of stuff because it turns out that in the gallon jug he Two hundred percent Alcohol Dan, which he cut with water and the next thing you know he's drinking. You know he winds up, you know they're driving and they keep going EAST and she's going what's going on here. We
this guy winds up raping this poor girl and then it gets worse. Should I keep going or You want it. Just ask the questions yeah! No! So so, there's a point where you talk about she has again. There's some red flags come up because he acts bad at first. Then he, Paula Gys is then he takes her for a little dinner, everything seems to be ok again. This is not. This is just a eighteen year old girl that you know and time that was ejected and was well normally mansions. Yes, I think that's an excellent point to make that in the late seventies, in California, this was the end of the hippie era. This was not an uncut moment situation for for kids to hitchhike. This was before worried about serial killers and so forth.
So she was just doing what a lot of kids did, because she wanted to go to LOS Angeles to talk. Her granddaddy was going to help her out, financially and so forth and in the I take her to dinner and but again Eventually what happens is she's drinking and like some alcoholics Larry Singleton, which is the name of the bad guy he becomes. A diff aren't human being under the influence of alcohol, and he winds up raping Mary Vincent and then it gets worse from there believe. You know which is hard to believe, ladies and gentlemen, but it does, it gets much worse from there. Now you talk about her being raped and he is not taking her anywhere near LOS Angeles at all.
Takes her into the Del Puerto Canyon. Are desert, isolated place, and. There's a point where he says you know I got to take a leak and she says me too so can we say that on radio, so he's talking about he's raping brutally, but now he's got his hands around her neck. So it's a little different than the previous rape and He decides he looks around and he sees this drainage pipe. So what does he do? Well yeah? We need to explain this. That's an excellent point. What happens, is and I went out there when I wrote the book. I can't write about something. Unless I see it and breathe, it
So that the reader understands what it's about. You know what I mean so and I just so that people understand what talking about. I don't know how many miles e it is, but maybe it's twenty five miles e of Modesto CA and what happens is he says he needs to eat, needs to take a leak and the girl says the same thing. And he's in this really isolated place. I mean we're talking, you know it's a movie set. You know people have in this stuff in the movies, you know an isolated like high desert. I think they call it. The high desert I'd have to look at my geography, but. It's a very deserted area and a lot of rocks and so forth and e parks be Van mirror.
Culvert and they get it out and the next thing you know he is Assaulting her again, but you want me to say what happened yeah. I guess I should alright I'll just say. Ladies and gentlemen, this is probably the I I think in Mycareer it is the most horrific physical assault. I know of ok when are kiss talking rape. What happens is Larry Singleton realize. That he needs, since she is raped her gift. He survives. She can testify against him.
So the idea is: what do you do to prevent? I sent ification. And we're not dealing with a guy who's got all of his oars in the water and what he decides to do Zero are down on the ground and he's got and he takes a hatchet any cuts source, her arms below the elbow, so that there is the there won't be any fingerprints and then he takes her body and she thinks she's dead and stocks are in the cultures, and it's idiot then takes the severed limbs and puts them in his back in the sand and school, see.
And Mary. It was with her Sir Vice and what happens? Is she winds up in it and she's conscious? Ladies and gentleman when he does, but God was with her because what happens is there's a lotta mods show that the the the arc her the stops that she has now are in the mud and that stops the hemorrhaging and the bleeding She will subsequently wake up and when she does, this girl has so much survival in her. She will walk
one thousand still still a good Samaritan help, sir. What and what happens is singleton. The bad guy goes back w and he's driving over the Oakland Bay Bridge, which many of us have driven over, and you know what he does Dan he opens up driver side door any tosses, the limbs out into the water. Which turned out to be a very, very big mistake, and this is why you know people like me get. Then you get to write about people like this, because there not the brightest apples in the bunch. They just figure that nobody's going to know about it. But that's not what happened to hear you talk about him, attempting to
tell her because basically that's what he thought he was doing was murdering her an cutting off her hands so that she could not be identified if the body was found and he tried at least a good job of hiding the body for the time period and then believe take the hands and throw them away, as he did. The image that I get from the way you've written this book is that in this image is still in my head and has been in my head since I start reading this book. Oh wow, her wandering down the highway naked delirious eighty or ninety degree weather first car, that Caesar after she's managed to walk, am my alert more he's so a frightened. He turns around and takes off the other way. It takes her She doesn't even know how many hours before someone else comes. And saves her. A man comes and takes her into his car draw.
Is to an airport and calls nine hundred and eleven amazing that image of this woman with just bloodied, stumps naked walking down the road asking for how Chretien, you know it's so what's so interesting about what you're saying is. That is that you would have thought given the name. So what you're saying the images and you're right the image? Is it it? It's just it's in a kredible image. You would have thought that in some way, somehow would have done Mo W movie of the week or a movie, but that never happened, and I suspect it's because it's so horrific, but I think what's very interesting here, is that she.
You know you're right I mean she's walking in this now it's eighty or ninety degrees and she's naked, because that's you know he stripped over clothing and the first dude that's easier, walking along in the shimmering desert heat just keeps going. Well, I I don't know who that person is, but if he's listening Uh, I don't have anything to say, but the second individual Caesar is is a terrific human being and he puts her into the car and they go to the to a local airstrip and.
That's really where I feel that the Police- really you know, there's so much attention. I was thinking about this today, Dan. There is so much to attention today about police officers not doing their job and so forth. Well, these police officers in Stanislaus County. California was fantastic and they were able to not only rush her to the hospital two Save her life, but the detective on the case his name was burshears was able to not only interview her, but he used hypnosis.
In order to get her to recall certain details, which which would eventually help convict single- and you know if I'm reading this I'm reading this- I wrote it- you know, I'm I'm thinking, you know what what's got you know this is. This. Is the card of stories that needs to be told, because so much attention has been focused on the negativity regarding police officers. But this is a detective and this guy is wonderful, and so were these. The the detectives at at this police department and and and so Mary Vincent, is able to give lieutenant shears a description of of her assailant
and they get a fantastic police artist to do a you know, a composite which they put get over the wires and it you know- and it's like you know, is again as I was reading it today. I'm going you know this, I don't know if they still do this stuff today, Dan, I honestly don't know you know all I can tell you is these cops was fantastic and they save this girl's life. And then they were eventually able to get the bad guy hey you talk about and again this is in the last Few episodes are talked about some incredible efforts to bring in hypnosis into the mix. And yet only did this not only this fifteen year have the wherewithal to remember important details like that he was a merchant marine
that he had a first aid kit in the window that he had another house in Reno NV and then they put her under and it's amazing, what you chronicle information that they did yet. They didn't know the value of at that time, but they still again these dedicated cops were incensed over this and were outraged and so Even more so they worked with some dedication to try to solve this and Todd MAC did fantastic job, and so the neighbor a neighbor that It had lived in San Pueblo said you know, took her a couple of days to come to the decision, but she called the police and said. I think this is my labor and take it from there. What how much information they got from Mary and again traumatized as she was, was still cooperating with the police and detective bichirs. But, as you say,
in the case comes from again that good work from that description, and what did the police do with this tip? Well, what happened? You know what you know. What really gets me. You know you know in my generation Dan Sammy Davis Junior would go on tv shows. Here I go going off topic. I realized that and he always say something really terrific about the host. What gets me is that I want all of our listeners to understand how you re-
we absorb the information that you read and asking radically intelligent questions. Okay, you can, you can give me five dollars, after which, if you want to we can we can eight so anyway, okay, now here's the thing. What happens is is this this? This fellow mister MAC does eight h sketch of the bad guys and it goes out and a woman in California sees it. You is we're talking about in California, since you know that looks like Larry Single any use
to be my my my my neighbor, ok and simultaneously burshears who's been true. I mean this is unbelievable. To me I mean this is like Sherlock Holmes stuff for shears. That detective has been trained in forensic up notes that Nelson, so he hypnotizes her and what he does. I mean it's just what he does is he gets it to recall. The events in the third per percent, so she's not traumatized, and what she remembers is that when she went to Singletons House and again she doesn't know his name at this point Just knows he's a merchant marine 'cause, that's what he said was there was a first aid kit
in the window of the house, which you mentioned well, what happens? Is the police put together what marry says the victim and what Sandra the neighbor tells them about Singleton and they go for the dudes house and they go in and they I mean they did the I mean it's like they did it by the numbers. They they get themselves search warrant. You know this, isn't some stupid tv show. You know they get a sir toward that go in and now they find in the fireplace the guy some stuff was being burned in it turned out, it was Mary Vincent's clothes. So now they know who they're looking for and they keep going and they find
the guy was a merchant marine and he was making a lot of money which, by the way that was in education, I didn't know they did and the dude had another residence in Nevada, and that leads the police in Nevada to capture him and they do is single and waives extradition and they send them back to California, and now they got their stuff back I mean this was, and if this was just search for research Please sing, I don't know any other way of putting it. You know and there's one other thing we should mention earlier. I said that When he went, Singleton is driving over the Oakland Bay Bridge. He throws the arms the severed arms out the window. Guess right folks, one of 'em,
kinds of going into an estuary and washes up and they find it. I mean they a fisherman, finds it cold who is the police, and now they have the arm to match to our stump forensic Lee and it's incredible Becaus. You know, because there's two ways of looking at this one way is, of course, how awful it Is an and the trauma, but the other way of looking at this is what you said earlier, which is the police determined that they were going to get this guy because nobody had ever seen anybody do it Skype did and they said we're gonna get him and you know what ever get everybody what they did was they
they use the law. They didn't go outside the law, they use the law, they use technology. And, most importantly, they use shoe leather to get this guy and their brains and to me that like you know as needed as I'm reading. When I'm what I wrote, I'm going, she had these people so around today. You know. Now the identify that hand they make a match. They also now have enough. To bring in Larry Singleton Lawrence, Milton yes, so he so he doesn't come in with Rep Presentation he comes in, they have him speaking with any kind of lawyer, so what does he have to say? What does he say?. Two. How did they conduct this interview is very interesting. It's really interesting.
You know it's not, you know we're talking, I didn't look it up, an I I'm hoping that he still around, because this guy he was good and he and his partner reach and what they did was they get him into an interrogation room and they did and- and you know it I don't know- you know it would be very interesting to find out this stuff works and other banks in other countries, but they gave him his rights. You know you have the right to bring silent, etc, etc. Anything you say, may be used against you in order flaw. You have to write to the representation of an attorney and he eat the clients and he signs off on his right and they start talking to him well long story short,
Singleton comes up with a story. He claims that air free picks up Marys instant. He picked up to hitchhikers. Someplace else, one has the name of Larry Gee, there's a coincidence and one has the name of Pedro and he he insists throughout the interrogation that these individuals with their. He insist this that marry had a stick. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm not making this up. He said that she had a sticky with threatening him with. The end that later she gets access to a nice, that's in the van and that
Pedro gets access to a gun. He kept in the van that we didn't know where he kept. It, though, Gee. It you don't, maybe somebody should call the NRA on this guy but anyway, yet this this, this gone allegedly Pedro and it is so what he tries to do is swatches to swap for any responsibility for what happens to Mary's instant, any claim he didn't do it there. Thanks to our ne, a but any keeps invoking God Dan. He keeps saying God I didn't do this under God. You know he keeps talking about God. I didn't do this blah blah block for shears keeps boring in the cop keeps going in on him Anne says you know you
et your. You know that this it's it's it's it's it's it's a textbook case of had one conduct an interrogation. Annie's is known: Mister Singleton, your life buddy, it doesn't say in those in those words, but basically that's what he said and he keeps trying to get the guy in the this is really it was so interesting. You want to know why. Why would he cut this girl's arms off? Well, not only will Singleton not admit to doing it. You won't admit to any motive, so the police then have to put their case together with the forensics the evidence and with Marys instance test
You also include that part of his story is that this big, tough merchant, marine and quite a muscular guy at that time, still in good shape, big guy was threatened by this fifteen year old with a little stick. And yeah with the threat. Go ahead, sir? No! No! No! You! No! No! You go ahead, no, no! You go ahead and then is he says that she wanted to have wanted to get stoned all the time she claimed she loved oral sex so meeting Denigrating her character, of course, talking about some mexican guy and some other guy and and and to the credit of Reese and Breshears effective Reese this let this guy go, but at the same time as he let's have given enough, as you call it rope to hang himself he's, also taking down all the inconsistencies that this guy has when just let
You go and let him talk and he's also at some point very, very challenging of this guy. Some point: it's now nice at all, in these challenging trying to get a confession, and this guy seems cool as a cucumber. Doesn't, I would say, hold we use cool as a cucumber. I mean he eat it. It's really you know now you know they were truck, what cheers and Reese were trying to do- was playing the guys conscience and by the way believe that I didn't get into it in the book. But this guy is not a sociopath, I don't see
that at all, he had a lot of problems which we would later find out and the cops hit. The time didn't know this, but what I'm getting at is that he would not um take any responsibility for what he did and this is in this- is not a situation where you know he's smart enough to say, hey get me get me a lawyer. He is having problems uh. Rationalizing his actions and they will. They will later be speculation that he had an alcoholic blackout and what's interesting about that, is under
Eric and criminal law. If that occurs, he that the defense, it mitigates the quiet, but the two cops were looking at it. From the point of view of you know self that this guy is white, they felt right. In the gecko that he was lying and what he was doing is what a lot of individuals do, who rape a woman, she's trying to essentially put her on trial for her actions and we pull up in the fifteen year old girl, he would actually claim Betty. But she was twenty one. Excuse me, you know and and- and he also you Know- here's a guy who Not only was he a big muscular guy
in good shape. At that point, the guy. Oh my god, you know, and it's funny as I was reading the book again today. 'cause I said to myself dans, can ask me actions are better know what the hell I'm talking about, and he was a veteran of the Korean WAR and he was on pork, chop, uphill, which was one of the worst battles of the korean WAR, where the communist Chinese attacked our troops and we lossed at least fifty percent of them. The point being this guy was, in you know, essentially hand to hand combat. So the idea that a fifteen year old girl could hold this individual at bay with a stick g. If you believe that one I got a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you for
five dollars all right. Then you want to bridge before even want to buy the burnout. Five dollars then you talk about you talk about this tech. Speak the employer. This ruse they employ on him and they say they're trying to get this config and then pushing as hard as they can and they think they might get one they said. Listen, We found some blood on the hatchet. How do you explain that. And so how does he respond? Oh well, he says he. It. It goes further than that. The e says Oh, I don't know how it got there. I I didn't use the hatchet. I haven't been hunting for. Long time and he also talked about out. There was a string on the hatchet, and this drain was you know on the handle and he talked and the cop
to ask him about why it was that the string was was broken. A torn rather and eat. Cum came up with some, you know is: oh ps, you know an So he doesn't have any explanation. Any of this. It has no explanation, you know it's it's it's it's. You know it's the it's the other guy, the sense you know somebody else did it. Somebody else use my stuff, it cetera etcetera and that's basically it I mean he he you know he doesn't you know he he at work. You look. Do I understand why he
say that yeah he's not going to confess, but it was a bunch of bs. Can I say that on radio sure thank you so that you know it really doesn't go any place. I mean it's just the fact that you know he, the clubs just like us as we. Is we're talking today and I'm sure the listeners around the world are thinking to themselves Why would a person commit such a horrendous crime? And you know something. I don't know you know, while logic with say he wants to get rid of the uh, the arms Becaus of identity, ok, uh and
granted it's the 70s, so there's no dna going down or anything like that. Still what we're talking about is violence. If there is such a thing over the top. And we will later find out that he would claim Singleton said he was abused growing up by his mother, and you know This was something the police didn't know at the time it comes out much much later, and you know that is certainly indicative of the problems he had through. That is life with women and I might add that he add a daughter, any physically abused, the daughter as a teenager course. He denied this guy.
I dealt, you know, lived in denial, his entire life- and you know, is we're talking about it. You know it work comes to mind in, but for the word that comes to mind is in order, for somebody like this to continue, to do what he does: abuse a child uh, for instance, enabler people enabled him throughout his life and one of the who is the police were interested in was as a merchant marine did. He do stuff and other places they weren't able to find that out, but that's for a lot of reasons number one the guy sailed all over the world. So you fortune
In in the taxpayers, money to track all this stuff down- and I suspect we're talking right now- That he raped women and or abuse them in various ways in other venues, but they didn't have the resources at that point to go after him in that respect. But one thing that we do know is that when people this abusive. We know that it tends to be a pattern and again I'm going to say the same thing. Tend to be enabled by other individuals and
you know what I mean. Damn there there is there's look. I thought I've got a relative dance who, a couple years ago, disagreed with me about in a political discussion the dude reached across the table and try to hit me. First cousin, why did she get away with it? Because people enabled him. Same situation. If you know, as people listen to what we're talking about, take a closer look at people. You know that might be relatives that might be acquaintances and I wouldn't be. The price of some of you, will find that their individual do stuff individual to do stuff like this. I'm not talking murder. What I'm talking about abuse and that's the tip of the iceberg.
I thought know Bagwell yeah back to the victim of this crime. This Mary Vinson very again, this is the outcome of this book. For me is that I just picture her Again that images in my head, but also distance that story. We won't get ahead of ourselves here, but at this time at this time At the same time, the question in this guy and she's. Victim of crime and so potentially. She needs new arms, so she needs victim of crime compensate recent program that they have in California, which is just new and her- you say her medical costs are likely to exceed over ten thousand dollars But the only problem is she's, not from California. Yes, oh you picked up on something really good. Here, buddy yeah they had to move the laws around a little bit
to make sure to try and get her benefits. But quite frankly, I'm just going to say it: ok, California, did not do, did not do their job it. You know here's a woman who the crime is committed in in California and she's going to need. New arms and this now again we're talking. You know this is seventy eight, so we're talking. What is that how many years ago was that forty years ago, right it's almost forty years ago now, of course, the technology has changed since that. But the bottom line is nobody
came forward to really give her help. In fact, it was only you know as we're talking about it. When I was reading the book again, I I was laughing be cause, there's a section in the book. Where what happens is I mention that Jaime Sommers Flu in Jaime Sommers was. Bionic woman, which was a tv show on NBC and the Actress who played the part flew in to help her out and bionic woman, of course, had bionic limbs, and
the bottom line here, is that I don't there's no evidence that anybody in the entertainment business anybody in government there industry etc came forward two Help her get new limbs and in fact, at that point the technology was same as what had gone on a world war, to some people may remember a movie called the best years of our lives. In which Harold Russell wins, the Oscar is breath of his arm
because of an accident world war. Two is it's a soldier and he gets cooks farms well. This is basically what happened with Mary vents and not only that. What what is so sad is that they forget about the technology, the the artificial limbs that they give her. They don't last. So she's got problems with them and you don't see anybody coming forward. Two help her. Now I don't know what you know. I haven't looked it up. I guess I should have you know Mary at this point would probably be in about fifty so, but I don't know if she's ever gotten anything better than what she had and that's that's just.
It's not only sad, but it's wrong. You know what I mean: it's it's it's it's wrong and so here's this woman. I write that she's been denied a future With this guy took away from her with her future, and I mean look at what's his name, the guy in. Oh, what's his name, you know the guy in South Africa, you know the convicted murderer, the guys had artificial limbs. You know really sophisticated, but this woman didn't have that advantage, and I don't know why people, you can come forward at that time and I don't know what's happened since so I have to be very
frank about that. But I do know that by the time we get to the late 90s. And Singleton, and getting ahead here is essentially tried for another crime she's in the same situation,. Then I'm only going back that you know nineteen eighteen years so she doesn't have very sophisticated set of artificial limbs. Now she has to go to the grand jury. Grand jury doesn't take much to get an indictment for this guy tell us what the outcome of the trial is and the most interesting part of this. As we already know that the to do that he got out to do this again, so how on earth? What is he charged with and what kind of sauce? So, let's, let's get to what the
How come is that's we know what would happen, but how great condition? What are the rules? How is it that, what's he charged with first well, the grand jury which in the United States is oh individuals, they get to other their voters and they get together turn a big room and Granger. Trees in the United States, generally manipulated by the prosecutor. In other words, at the prosecutor wants wants to get an indictment is pretty easy to get on. You know it's rubber stamp. I don't know how it works in other places,.
You know, but I I just want to explain that. Okay, so now here's what happened stand they charge single parent with a four it's a variety of charges, everything from sexual assault to physical whistle and that's where it's interesting. In other words, there is no there's nothing in the law Dan, and I said I, I suspect now where he you know you charge somebody there's nothing that says you know what you say: okay, you cut of somebody's arms, blah blah blah physical assault. So the idea is that they're going to charge him and then you know in Africa
The grand jury comes in with their Indict Anne, its physical assault, sexual assault. Essentially, you know it's a number of charges, attempted murder and then it's going to go to trial. And in California history these things change over the years, but there we some limitations regarding watt, they could could convict him on and, most importantly, what the sentence would be see. That's where it gets really interesting, because you know you can't change a law just Becaus somebody does something I mean you can change it subsequently
But the fact that he could forearms doesn't mean that you can then say: okay, the card form. She should get a life. Well, I don't think most of us would say. That would be unreasonable, but you can't change the laws. So basically it's you know it's just. Amount of years behind bars an and in fact the most the guy can get apple time in the late 70s in California, Canada ITALY, folks, California, is a liberal state. The most is dude can get. Is fourteen years behind bars, that's the most. If the jury convicts unnold charges.
At the same time, you put, though, that in real terms with good behavior, despite are any of this, past record in terms of this crime in the heinous nature he can be out in eight years on good behavior, that's the maximum. He can do correct Dan. I see you know that this was an a. Ducation. For me, I mean I'm not again. I you know One day we should have a discussion how this works in Canada or Australia. Germany. Cetera England. But yes, with good behave, not only good behavior like if he does certain jobs behind Fars. He gets credits, so you can get out so, in other words, the bottom line is here's a guy who again
ladies and gentlemen, it's a late seventies. He he rapes. Thank you! A fifteen year old girl, the card so forearms he gets sentenced to fourteen years and if he's a good guy behind bars will be out in eight and that's what have He he course he is a merchant marine. One of the reasons certainly an he's used to discipline. He. Is a model prisoner and be cause he's in great shape. Nobody's going to mess with them. You know this is not a guy. That's going to you know nobody's going to mess with, and so he.
That sounds in the middle 1980s that it, when I say get out, I mean he gets parole. What happens from that point is another story. This is one of the most unique stories. I've ever read in terms of somebody getting out and being forced again tell us what he was forced to do or the government was for. Doing and why I mean it's. Again right out of some week, He knows this a modern day. Lynch potential so tell us about this sure. Then you know it's funny, as I was writing it and again, as I was reading it, it reminds me of the old West.
The guy comes up for parole and it's a big deal because the question becomes: where is he going to go out? It's a it's a celebrated case with a California and it's getting headlines across the United States, I mean, for God, sakes eight years for cutting off a young girls, arms and rape, and now he is going to let him go. They gonna. Let him go and the thing in so Question then becomes ok with she gonna go well. They start saying well, will send him back to where he came from the county in California. Next thing in that county,
Are you kidding? We don't want him an an as the state tries to find a place to place him to place him. Each venue says buddy he's not coming over here. Well, eventually, what happens is now you know want you know. There's a date can keep somebody at least then. You couldn't keep somebody in prison beyond a certain date, so now they gotta release and thin. So the next thing you know. Is there moving them around? Ladies and gentlemen,
They are moving him around on taxpayer money from town to town in northern California. And what happens? Is it one point he's in one of these towns and they keeping it quiet? I should mention it. That's the most important thing, they're, keeping it quiet You know it's understandable, the State Parole Board doesn't want to know they want people to know them at chopper is in their venue. Well,. People find out an at one point: I've never seen this. Actually, I don't I've never seen this in modern day a Lynch Mark forms.
Isn't someplace in northern California, whatever camps, not port? The point is people find out he's in he's there, all my god they show up, and you know the I was actually surprised when I read the accounts that nobody was carrying a rope. You know I'm thinking to myself. You know Play some in town aid can be whatever their lawyers would go into state court and sue. We don't want it. We're not gonna. Take him.
And they actually did have a Lynch mob in one of these towns and they got him out and you know the parole officers and they took him. Someplace else you know they kept moving this dude around and, of course this is you know this is all being done on the public dollar. Singleton is you know he's very hot happy, of course, that he's out only served eight years So now the question becomes ok. Where do we put him so that people can't get to him, and should I explain what happens? Yes, what happens is somebody somebody who smart comes up with the idea. Ok, let's put him on the grey.
Films of San Quentin Prison and the idea is they'll put in there and it will have a separate residence and again. This is on public dollars and. He's actually free to move around, but with his bodyguards, and they decide that he'll survey the length of his parole there and it's something like a year or two whatever it is, and then once he's finished with that he can go any place you wants to in the world. So that's the compromise. That's reached. They'll, put him Essentia Lee back behind prison walls for his own.
Own safety. Now I've never seen anything like this, and I, ladies and gentlemen, I doubt we'll ever see anything like this again and hopefully we don't and that. But that's what happens you know and so he's now behind stand. Mountains, prison walls any serving at his time there and every once in awhile. You know late late, 70s, you know it goes to the moon it's not late. 70S middle! Ladies, so you know he goes The movie is whatever you know. You know goes out to Mcdonald's. I I I'm. I pointed out the books that the it's you know he he is first introduced when it comes out for the, microwave oven. You know- and you know so- the guy
winds up the guy winds up serving at his parole time, deny essentially behind prison walls, and then it gets really interesting after a segway. Yes, well, So now he has to eventually get out and again the the mob that almost got him there, still this politically and practically and them media and the info. Yeah don't want to make California. So what is the end up and under what conditions you mean after what? What happens is great question after research that is parole and you know we're not you know, that's fine
He is we're talking about it right now. You know it wasn't a long period of parole. You know it's like a couple of years or something and so what happens? Is he he's got a uh in a where is he going to go any very aware: he's not a stupid guy, he's a very smart guy and the you know so weird you gonna go so that people don't keep coming after him, which they're doing a California well his home is Tampa Tampa FL. Ok, this is the part that crack me up. In the book and in reality it. So he's a lap 'cause he's looking for role now been so into the rules in California, Easy allowed to go wherever he wants. So
it's not even gonna. Why you didn't go to Alaska, it didn't go to Jamaica, it didn't go to Germany, uh and I say- Germany, because annmarie acumen, maybe listening my friend and he goes to Tampa FL because that's where it comes from and his family tries to help him and he goes back home. This where it comes from and one of his brothers buys him. She we should be so Lucky a really nice ranch You guys call Ranch House in Canada by the way sure sure is small ranch house.
And you know in other words, ladies and gentlemen, is one story and it's it's an Orient park which is not a not particularly nice area and he goes there to live any. Get smart any changes. His name to. I think it's Bill Johnson. The irony is that the name that he uses. Is the name of the one armed man in the old tv show the fugitive? She got so the one armed man, ladies and gentlemen, and so he winds of moving there and you registers with a clean
is you know, is you know he's following the Lord in you know, and but he's going downhill and you know once they we haven't touched on it's something. I've seen a lot of criminal cases. The dude had a lot of post, traumatic, stress syndrome, troop surge in combat number one. It was never dealt with. Why is it I don't know, but that's true. He was never dealt with the guy with an alcoholic. I'm not talking functioning alcoholic, I'm talking alcohol and they did not. Nobody required. He attend AA meetings or anything of that nature. Ok, and so we have an individual.
With severe emotional and physical problems and for whatever reason the system is not dealing with it, so he moves back to Tampa an old boy, all dance, all God. When I saw this when I wrote the book power busy yiddish expression. I plot he moved to Gibson's and briefly Gibson's and is where lobster boy takes place. He drank with Grady, Stiles junior lobster boy yeah. I couldn't believe it. I mean it's amazing. It's amazing You know I mean it's amazing and and then and then what happened was that was initially and then
the family, as I said they born Emma plates in Ori in pork, which I went to, and it was a very nice place. Then was very nice place, and I mean I didn't go: actually in all, but I couldn't do that, but it was a really nice place and this is where he would live and he changed his name, as I said, to build John so with neighbors know him by that name. However, they some of them, you know we reputation, but he was a very good neighbor. He was dogs which some of us are etc, etc.
So now we're talking about a dude is in his early 60s who's, a convicted sex offender, convicted of attempted murder it's Saturday and other charges and he's on his social security view like a social security. Yes, thank you. Listen. I don't know. I got to ask a question. You know I know I get off track sometimes, but by the way How to tell you, I know I'm getting off track. Sorry, but I didn't know: Justin Trudeau was a liberal. Nobody told me Dan
so anyway. Here's what happens he could. He starts acting it out again, it's very interesting. He starts acting out again, that is, he starts stealing stuff And so so here we got a guy, you know, we've talked All about what to do did. Next thing you know he still, you know he's what he called shoplifting shoplifting. You know in it's unbelievable stuff, Becaus at one point he shoplifts a couple of times. You know what happens. They give him two years.
Two years. You know, I don't understand the system. Sometimes you know what you gotta do to put the guy away for life. You know, you know he raped somebody to eat. Take so for arms, get throw goes back to his home; Shop lips couple of times. They put him in jail, blah blah blah gets two years gets out again and you know it's. You know I understand. Look I know you know this is not a science fiction. Film with with Tom Cruise. I realize that we
I don't know, what's going to happen in the future, but man when you look at what we're talking about here, you go, something is going to go down, so he gets out after two years and that sets up what's going to happen next now you talk about stop the perfect storm here confluence of events, and anyway he meets this Roxanne Roxy Hayes. After the women it was working the streets, six foot in seventy pounds. She had met him before they had it. Change they done business before she was not apprehensive about him at all, and then we have a guy name. Gene Reynolds so tell us what happens. Is we want to still talk about something else tonight that.
Very very important. So, yes, I know tell us quickly what happens? What does Dean Reynolds find out? What happens? Well, first of Gene Reynolds was a student, and but what happens here is this Larry Singleton picks up or rocks sand at at Hayes and he's already done business with her before she's she's, a prostitute, she's married. I'm sorry, no search used on merit she's living with an individual's yet couple kids, and so what happens? Is he picks it they've they've already done business before he picks her up to his house, the one we mentioned earlier and during their interaction. She asks for more money because the price of cocaine has gone up and she was an addict that leads I'll just say it leads to my
he takes it takes an ice, any it's pretty awful. He starts stabbing her with a knife and and Gene Reynolds is, is a aside from the fact is one of the crew. It is a mash, that's the reason I use the name. He. He's a neighbor and he hears the commotion and he sees looks through the window when he sees Singleton. With his on going up and down on this one and and what he doesn't realize is in his arms there's a nice, she he stamping her to death. It's very sad and at that point they call. He calls the cops and becauses a change of shift, that it takes
and at least thirty minutes to get a uh, a part response and what happens is when the car. Ladies and gentlemen, you can't make this stuff up. That's why it's true crime when the cop comes to the door and knocks on the door. Oh yeah, I single ten, shows the Singleton opens the door he's naked and where is he's got blood all over him and he's and naked and he's wearing a condom. Okay, normally, he's wearing a condom and and Singleton actually try nice to con the officer not to come into the deciles but the office. It, of course, does the right thing the goes and he finds Roxanne Hayes Dead
You know in the living room stabbed to death that will eventually lead to Singleton being tried and convicted For murder, one in Florida sentenced to to death good Florida's, a death penalty, state. Yes and incredibly, what you include and again we're going to have to leave, almost are read, or a listeners just hanging here a little bit. But this is electric chair trial. This story still is very involved and also the most appointment for found Moment is Mary Vincent with their hooks, looking at Larry Singleton in the eye at trial, it fascinating, there's still more Fascinating information we could, in part. Yeah, I want to. Thank you very much for talking about the Machop are, we
so talk before this show. You have some breaking news and you can introduce our next guest may interrupt before we get to that. I just want to tell the listeners. I look after you, dudes. And dudettes tomorrow. This book is on sale for one dollar and ninety nine cents at Amazon for Ebay. I just want to let you know this, so don't buy it tonight right if you want to pick if you want to buy it, do it tomorrow. Ok, just want to, let you know, go ahead, then yeah. It's very good! Now, there's a story that you have been working on and you're very, very passionate about involving James Brown. So why don't you just introduce a little bit about what you're working find who you're working with and introduce our next guest tonight sure is called in? Yes, what
and it was over a year ago, I got contacted through Facebook friend on Facebook. Told me about Jackie Collins are Jackie, spells her name Jacque, just like Jacqueline Kennedy and what happened was Jackie had been James, Brown's, the godfather of soul, a music producer is music producer rather and Jackie in nineteen on April. First, one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight was right by Browne very brutally and what and so she I was contacted by somebody we started chatting. We decided to do a book. Jackie became a tremendous advocate for rape, distance, which we can talk about more, but
I don't mind is while we were working on our our stories. She started telling me all these details about James Brown's death in two thousand and six and, as it turns out as it turns out, it wasn't watt the death certificates, does, which is that he died from pneumonia didn't happen folks, and wish, and we can talk, will talk about that. But bottom line is Jackie. Had big, been very influential with Mister Brown In terms of establishing the, I feel good trust for under privileged children, and the idea was that when he died.
The majority of his estate, which was one hundred million dollars, would go to that trust. Well, that's not happened, and so I got very passionate, as you say about it because Not only did that happen but be cause. Jackie became a detective essentially to try and solve Browns suspicious death sure that the trust could be reinstated because that trust was broken by Brown's family, so we got involved and that sort of, let us to the point that we're at now I Hope I summarized it: ok yeah! So thanks. So I want to introduce Jackie Hollander to the program. Are you on Jackie,
hi Dan? It's really good to get the doctor. You've heard so much about you. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much now we have only a few minutes, left we have eight or nine minutes left in the program. But what can you tell us? Because I know There- some things that you are not willing to tell us right now, but what can you tell us about the state of the case just in the last few days in terms of development? What can you tell us about any new developments on what you're doing and who you're speaking to plus what you can about the new developments in this case, ok. Well, I think you know, I think red is shared with you. That I came across a bunch of evidence and- and it's taken about a year for all of this- to come to fruition, but
I don't want to say and use the word investigation by the police, just letting them do their job right now and I don't want to break too much about it, but I can tell you that law enforcement has stepped in. And I I put it in their hands and an and also in God's hands. Now you were involved with James Brown and Fred has told us about this uh, at the same time, though, the the big part of this case, as I understand it to is this and Fred did mention it to- is that James Brown, because of his background had- certain concerns for children and had set up this fun so Tell us a little bit more about this trust fund. Thank you. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Basically, I started the trust with him. I came up with the idea for it:
the. I feel good trust and even came up with the name when I met James Brown. He really did not do a lot of charity work and that was my forte and James and I became five thousand and fifty partners, and- and we did, I have just cases full of the benefits that we did to raise money for children from Scottish Rite all the way across the board and and he had told me that when he died, everything would go into the trust that we built the. I feel good trust. I I think it's very cool fear that if you read Buddy Dallas is APA David says I am the five thousand and fifty partner. He was the lawyer for James brown for thirty years and and it, there. When we did everything so yeah, you know it. Unfortunately, greed and it is to been taken. Control of by the state.
South Carolina Anna lot of crop lawyers Ann, Is it hints not one? Child is received. One penny in ten years, wow. Not one of the ideas not and the idea that the true what we for our audience is that this trust fund is at odds with James Brown's biological, children, an and other people that he has has has had relationships with. If you could explain well mister, down how wise it really wasn't a wise who was married to another man from Pakistan. She gave birth to a child that which she claims is James Brown, but as a rape victim when I got raped by James Brown, I Mister Brown had to later show that there was no way he but it got me pregnant.
Mister Brown had had a vasectomy, I they now have come across another video footage clip of an interview that eh he married this woman who claims to be the mother of this child. He's now had two vasectomies one in the 80s and one in the 90s and to vasectomies. You can't have a child plus he had diabetes and he had cancer in the gonads, and I mean you add all of that up together, there's no way they have given this woman, all kinds of Carte blanche because of the her power, her connections to people. It it's a big terms of it's, probably one of the largest coverup ever in
United States of America involving millions of dollars. Now you also talk about the children not receiving anything from James Brown in Is there any contributing factor in this from the children as well. Are you talk about his children. Are you talking job? Well, his children, his children, his children just want the money for themselves. They have recently after they have caused such a commotion for ten years? Final, They done a little settlement. It said they want their father's wishes honored. But of course it's a little honor his wishes when they ten years but that his wishes were not granted. I mean This is a man that is buried in his daughter's backyard when his wishes were to be buried by his
may, I add an That's illegal! Yes, Jackie is correct, he's not buried he's in an above ground above the ground, I don't, I don't even know if you call it soon, but the most important point here is this: when he died. Even though he'd gone to the ha initially. With a diagnosis of a drug overdose in the schedule to be released Christmas day, two thousand and six, and he was supposed to be one hundred percent. Next thing. You know the guy dies. The death certificate says it's. Pneumonia, And the family, according to the records, consisted no autopsy be
performed, know the daughter, dead, Yamma Brown insisted no autopsy on one end, and this is the most famous man in the world as far as a soul music and CNN ran his funeral for two weeks and we had Saddam Hussein and we had a Gerald Ford, die and they took a back seat to a twenty four hour service. Going on on CNN, you know, and every other station- that's really interesting. I even I didn't know that wow well, I did because, unfortunately, my phone rang off the hook. I was in the Supreme Court with James Brown when he died. You know what I I just want to mention that Jackie's case she soon Brown for rape in the United States Supreme Court and they agreed to take her case. But what
Happen was when Brown died. The case died except president with set, and so since then many individuals have used the president sue the rapist in federal court, which I think is pretty damn interesting. And I yeah I would also something else after Brown dies Jackie, which female on the line you get a lot of this part the governor's abroad, we'll call it image the do the trite fish that was convicted, of trying to sell Barackobama Senate seat and is in general, yeah hello. This, yes, this And Jackie campaign to the statute of limitations, the crime rate in the state of Illinois,
she ate it and we'll go over the edge signed that into war before he goes to jail. So there are people should that would then abuse Jackie's war, which is what it's called. To bring their rapist to justice, which I think is sort of interesting all that very across the United States of America. I mean it. One thousand and ten, it essentially was the law that caused the priest to come down. However, I talked with a lot of priest and when I did it in two thousand in ten in Illinois you saw lot of priest being exposed in peep. Coming forward on my law. And then, of course, it went across the United States, and now they're using it everywhere, I'm being they are using it on Trump, which makes it really difficult develops used Walker,
how hard very difficult she's fucking now, before I let go Jackie. No, we won't need you to do that. I think so. I just wanted to ask before we let you go just where you are at in terms of cooperation from police, how again not giving anything away but Where are you in terms of the co? Op are patient from them. Listening to your version of is. Is there any development in that area? Yes, I think that changed a little. It's been very diff called, as you know, I'm traveling and I am with the circus and I actually in a show tonight getting dressed for that show, so it
Hard when you're traveling and, of course, I've had a lot of death threats from the brown camp And which is made it difficult when you're traveling it's hard to do all of this, but Fred and I have been very vigilant in it and there- are days I'll admit where I want to quit. You know, I think you know. I'm is victim, and yet I also remember the James Brown prior to what happened to me. So I know both sides. I know the good side and the bad side of him and that still doesn't give people. I'm I'm not part, you know an open carte blanche to do away with someone's life. So I think it's important for history, important for the trust, um That you know one hundred million dollars that should going to the poor
and needy children across our country. I think it's very important that the truth does come out and that you know I'm one of these people that say let the dominoes fall. Absolutely very interesting. Of your situation and then your fight for again, what you say Ann is the truth, the absolute truth about what Happ? with James around the good and the bad and the ugly and the true right. I want to thank you very much for a very applaudable, laudable fight that you are in campaign, so the best of luck to you And the very dedicated- and thank you so stubborn Fred Rosen, so I'm sure you'll get somewhere with this with well. Well, we have our days, I mean you know this is become like a marriage and I have my days where I'm more like a witch- and you know I'm sure, Fred, cringes and then,
and then there's days where I cringe. It's a really tight knit. Working relationship that were bounce any ideas off of each other. All the time and the same Amazon music. I mean it's, it's two riders today, Durand and it's a hard. It's a hard, Lori and he undertook a really big. A really big mountain with this when it wasn't just a here's, the Evidence- and this is where it's all going to lie he sides- are really learn an he said to learn thirty years. That's a lot, but in anybody's brain in just a short time have. Absolutely I want to thank you very much Jackie Hollendorfer, coming on and talking about this and I'm sure we'll be back again in the near future. Talking about this and then when you fully realize this into a full book with Fred Rosen and be very exciting, to hear. This and know this background story. I
Thank you very much Fred for coming on and talking again about the match, chopper and the latest development in the James Brown story for those people might want to contact you. How might they do that? You have a facebook page, how we They contact you Fred. I people can contact. Actually people can contact me my facebook page and I'm going to be doing a blog, pretty stuff but bright house late, Facebook page, and I simply would like to say. I I have so much. Humility should be gone with you, Dan, and I thank you so much for your support. There's? No, I don't have any words just thank you, sir. Well, thank you very much Fred. It is always an honor and a pleasure to have you on the program and I'm excited when
Fred Rosen, is excited because I know something great is going to be turned up and turned into something very exciting, very much like the mad chopper tonight. Thank you very much, Jackie Hollander and Frank. Thank you very, text Fred rose and hope to talk to you again to both you real soon have a great evening: Yes, you Dan Audio's Muchachos revival, bye, bye,
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.