A marriage made in hell...Barely five feet tall, sweet and innocent looking, Charlene Gallego used all of her charms to beguile pretty teenage girls and young women into the back of a van, where her lethal husband, Gerald, lay waiting. A killer couple bound together by secrets, lies, and sex slave fantasies Married multiple times and still in his early thirties, Gerald Gallego found the perfect companion in Charlene. Over a grisly period of twenty-six months, their bloody and brutal rampage of kidnapping, rape, and murder spanned three states and claimed eleven lives. THE SEX SLAVE MURDERS: The True Story of Serial Killers Gerald and Charlene Gallego-R. Barri Flowers.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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This is your home dance. It asks for the programme to murder the more shocking killers and true crime history and the does it have written about them a marriage. Made in Hell barely five feet: tall, sweet and innocent. Looking Charlene Gallego. Are you hungry for the usual today or are you ready to spice things up with the new Nashville hot brisket from firehouse subs, where kicking up our slow smoked, beef brisket with Nashville hot seasoning? It's topped with melted pepperjack and are sweet and tangy slaw served piping hot on a toasted corn, bread, roll yeah are corn bread, roll save time order, your new Nashville hot brisket on the firehouse subs app today, firehouse subs enjoy more subs, save more lives, participating locations, limited time only used all of her charms to beguile pretty teenage girls and young women into the back of a Van where Hurley.
Poor husband Gerald, lay waiting a killer couple bound together by secrets, lies and sex slave fantasies married multiple times and still in his early 30s Gerald Gallego, found the perfect companion in Charlene over a grisly period of twenty six months. There, bloody and brutal rampage of kidnapping, rape and murder span three states and claim and eleven lives. Mother book this evening that were featured is sex slave murders by our berry flowers, welcome to the program and thank you to agreeing to this interview, berry flowers. Thank you dad, I'm happy to be here. Thank you very much action for those people who saw the description of the program. It is my huge take. It is the sex slave murders, so just get that straight for everyone. That's following us,
now. First off was one of my favorite questions because it nets me all kinds of answers very interesting. You have an extensive background as a Monologist Anna best selling author. This book is a originally came in nineteen. Ninety six, if I'm not incorrect, tell me how you came as a person. With your background, how you came this story and why you decided to write about this particular story? Ok, that's a good question! Well, I first heard about the legos in one thousand nine hundred and eighty, which would that was at the tail end of their sing three, but I happen to have just gotten out of college at that time and it just got married moved to Sacre Mental from the Midwest Ann. It was around time that technically goes where
abducting and murdering their tenth and 11th victims in the city Sacramento. So the fact that these last two victims, college, sweethearts, Mary Beths hours and another round around the same age is me and my own wifi I hit home to me just you know how well life could be snuffed out just like that. If you happen to be in wrong situation,. So that point on this story, you stuck with me over the years, and it was a story that I felt I had to tell to let other people know about this type of thing. In the end, you, your nature of this, has been why serial killer tandem. Now you, the subtitle of this, is the horrifying true story of America's first husband and wife serial killers. That's interesting
because there have been obviously there's been a few other cases we spoke to on off air Carla, Markham, Paul Bernardo and there's been a people are to male companions. I have been couples in crime like this, but you say this is the actually the first husband and wife serial killer dual in America. Yes, absolutely as far as being serial killers under the Deaf mission of serial killers are three or more murders committed by the two that makes them the first ones to actually fall under that banner right. There's another two things that you mentioned night like these to where they were married and about together in doing here, male and female matrimony emerge night. Well, let's go back very much in Europe
give covered up the victims lives. You covered, you done the best gate of work to do to find out about Gerald Galapagos upbringing background. We tell us about Gallego and his parents, talk about his family life and General environment, in which Gerald Gallego grew up. It's incredible! Ok, oh dear, I came from a very troubled dysfunctional background, to say the least, his father Jill Albert Lego, murder, to learn in Mississippi and in eighteen fifty and was sentenced to death for his crimes fact became the first person executed. Mississippi's part continue to create a new gas chamber, so that was legacy for his son. To have to deal with Gerald actually did had never met his father, but
new of him, and he certainly knew of his crimes. His mother was a prostitute. When he was growing up- and he had a number of other too involved in various types of crimes- sexual and property crimes- and so he had- you could say, the deck was stacked against him. In that regard, he was also a victim of child abuse. Physical child abuse when he was young, so he was in and out of juvenile Halden Adult Britain's as well as he again older, committing everything from sex crimes to robbery to violent other violent crimes. So he. Look what kind of legitimate I was a little bit about the we. Can you tell us a little bit about the sex crimes and in what did the violence manifests itself? Hotels, a little bit about that, but I think it is. I think it's important.
Ok, well, he before he was even in his became an adult he was involved in sex offences is a juvenile molestation and he this metamorphosised into incest of his own chow. Once he he came a young adult Gerald and so his the seeds were planted for his later sex offenses by his sexual misconduct is a chow ah and his mother in his own daughter, without it out now Gerald deserve. Despite these these problems, a dysfunctional lie. At the very assorted. Why, then, surely he wasn't the most happy go lucky guy, but despite that, you paint a picture of Gerald being quite an
outgoing and charming person at least two good looking guy. So basically he did ok in terms of romance will say that is true. He was married. Actually five times before he ever laid eyes Charlie, so he certainly had it charm about him, which is able to entice females into. Being with him consensually, but the dark side of Gerald Personality wanted more than that. So we still like the idea of sex relations by fourth, and he
Was able to use his same charm that he used to marry his previous slides? He was able to capture Charlene fancy to marry and set the stage for the things that were to come for the two of them together. Not let's go back just a little bit with these. Otherwise, some of these marriages are very, very brief and some are not as brief, but still certainly brief, because you're talking about five marriage is before he's thirty one years of age so so, there's there not long lasting marriages. Now far you knew you could find out. There seems to be obviously escalation, and that says no surprise, but what would each one of them? Women say where there was progressively his behavior changing from one marriage to the other or of those five women
was there some shared characteristic that they noted in general about his behavior Especially in the sexual deviance category, I think there was some shared behavioral traits exhibited with all of them and that started with physical abuse from things that I've heard and actually talk to one of them. They have been victims of domestic violence, with Gerald being a perpetrator, an that was tide into some of his sexual perversity. I think that he like the idea of forcing himself even then some of his wives? Why not all of them often induced by substance abuse? So he even though he was able to charm these women initially, I think
one reason is merited didn't last, very long with that the two sides of his nature came out with each wife in they wanted nothing. Do it TIM so was he was he a controlling person, or was he just prone to violence once he was intoxicated and you talked about substance abuse were talking about primarily alcohol and cocaine for the most part, alcohol, cocaine, marijuana and some other drugs as well, I believe dabbling in especially when he became Bob shoving, but I think that he was definitely a controlling freak Zack. I could say that it was definitely a control freak and he was domineering, and you fear to control his wife, whether his daughter.
Now, which, with which one of the wise, when did it occur, that he graduated to insist, ah with his own daughter and which which of the marriages, is this at what point to prior to meeting Charlene the disk all occur? It was the time frame. I believe this was his third wife that he had the child drift and he began molesting her when she was five or six years old up by right up into her teens. So he just crossed over into the time in which new for net Charlene that he was still abusing his daughter and what did the? What is his third wife have to say she wishes she oblivious to all this abuse at the hands of her daughter. We learned about the abuse as well as his own mother Gerald and the authorities were notified. I mean she didn't know. Initially, I don't believe, but.
In the earlier years, but when she found out, he was reported and that's when Gerald went on the run. That was the sort of set the stage for his. Ultimately changing identity became known as even fail during his time with Johnny. And it was primarily to try to die it's the law regarding incest, charges that were filed against him. Now Now, when when does he meet Charlene and what year is this and under what circumstances do they meet. Uh they met in nineteen ninety one thousand nine hundred and seventy seven, I'm sorry when they met at a club shining who.
Came from a well to do family. I had a high iq, tractive young woman, but she still long for more adventure. She wanted to get away from suburbia and that type of life and just wanted to. Find some action, something that stimulated her intelligence, perhaps and so, and she met zeroed at this. Were the two of them hit it off right away so cylinder, attractive lady, she saw him someone who, with tough so the type of guy, that a bad boy image capture her fancy. He was a big guy. Wasn't it yeah she's about five foot tall, so he's
He's he's a bigger guy taller guy, yes yeah, she was barely over five feet, so they they work. She was captivated by him physically and his character, which was charming, but at the same time tough in path, Maura Matthew. Then then, some of the people she had been with previous these out appeal to her is being a take charge, type guy. Now what for people that are trying to imagine what the Gerald looks like, because we got to see that this guy's, a charming guy, can t a bunch women want to marry this guy. He has no problem with women whatsoever. He is he's, like you say, charming. Guy. Maybe describe the jail for our audience, so
get a sort of an idea where Charlene is in terms of with Gerald, maybe even describe both of them physically, so that we have soared. A picture of what goes on, I think, will be important to later in the story. Ok He was around six feet, maybe a little over a sort of a husky build. Dark here, I I guess you could say was so did brutish looking, even though he had his appeal for women, but he really had a more hard and group type look about him that still was able to, along with this character, captivate women and Charlene case she was petite blonde blue eyed attract
to go next door type female that any man you know would have found a building, and there was certainly the case with Euro were delayed. On her. She had been married a couple times as well herself, one ok, maybe a two year old, I, like you say she comes from her. Dad was a grocery Jane executive and the fact that he had been married twice them Nobody. Yet he had been married twice before Meeting Gerald one merit barely a month, I believe. But yes, she was married twice. Now it would, what I'm trying to establish to is that there must have been some kind of like what what you're saying issues come from suburbia she's raised around money. He comes from a totally dysfunction, a family, but he does have- and I think this is important I'll explain later- he does have a sort of a menacing look and she
very, very innocent, look, really gets so eyes. I think it's a this combination is a very interesting and makes for part of the story later they do meet meet and what is one of sexual sexual characteristics? That Gerald introduces what? What is one of the things he talks about? A meaning isn't full blown escalated here. But what does he talk about initially to Charlene and what end and grew to do and or what's the fantasy talk discusses with Charlene immediately, oh well. Initially, he talked about her being girl was heart, as he referred to was in his mouth, find someone who, with.
Number one girl, then you would do whatever he wanted her to do, and so this quickly she quickly became so enthralled with the undead. He was able to play his cards out on the table so to speak and what he was looking for in as far as sexual He basically wanted her to be willing to do everything and anything of any type of experimentation he had in mind and frequent sexual relations, and so she was happy to oblige because they also start using drugs early on in their relationship, an alcohol then so she was. Willing to hold up her end. What he wanted at the time so worked up to get the data we talk and significant
argues as well, especially Maynard spoken marijuana, but I mean this is their both heavily into cocaine, use where they getting where it where's the money. Coming from for this. By the way I have a feeling a little drugs to get some drugs are over here about a job every now and then to get some of this money, but also charming with the only child. She was daddy's girls and so. Basically any money that she needed. She could always go to her mother and father to help her out and they were happy to do so. And so at some point, Have a conversation he asked her to lure underage girls, he gets he talks about the underage girls in his fantasy. Tell
about that conversation and if you know exactly how far into the relationship was it before they had this fateful conversation about his fat. Ass. Ok! Well, he began I'm talking about Gerald these sexual fantasies less than a year into their relationship. He had fantasies in which they talked about it quite a bit actually before they began to put into practice, but basically he wanted to have sex slaves. Who would do his sexual bidding anytime? He wanted Ann. If not do it willingly which they wouldn't, then he
would force them to as sexual slaves. Anyone it Charlie need to be an active participant in it in any way that he wanted her to list instance. It was mainly to be the one that brought them to him so and Charlene's case. I think that she with perhaps growing a bit weary of trying to satisfy his perverse sexual needs, and so initially I think that she went along with it. Thinking that you know they would be able to take up the slack if you will for his sexual demands and then she would be able to take it easy a bit. But I don't believe that she at the beginning realize just how far he plans to go once he had a duck
these sex slaves. She may have thought that he let them go and you know they go on with their lives, but he wasn't about to do that because he was at least smart enough to know that if you could be identified, then you could be code. Please cause he go back to prison. So she didn't do a lot of thinking about this thing, because otherwise she would have realized that the murder was part of this whole thing. Well right, it would be letting people go now. Tell us about the actual event. The first September 11th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven and the abduction of the two victims, tell us about the entire event and Charlene's participation and her react. Tell us about the whole thing: go into the details of it's just such an incredible beginning
to this terror rampage. Ok! Well! That was kept him eleven that you said Mister Knightley. Seventy eight actually hard made one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight and they had their one thousand nine hundred and seventy three Dodge Recreation Van and driving around here Johnny. I was when Euro told her. I M ready. I want a girl now and- he thought shouting did he may have been joking? No did he wasn't? Did he pointed someone Well known as you'd go going to help him to do so, so they ended up at a shopping center in Sacramento caused the Country Club Plaza and there are shouting inside in under general guidance- looked around
once you find someone that fit the bill that what he was looking for, a young I attractive like her and his daughter, and he and she found two young ladies, are Rhonda Schaffler. Keep you bought both seventeen shoving disabled to get them out of the show. These indian, under the pretense of getting high and important. The two young lady, just Taking the idea of going out smoking some marijuana and shoving, Seemed innocent enough, so they never gave it. A second thought: we're happy to participate Wednesday get outside led to the van innocently enough Gerald is waiting there with a twenty five caliber pistol and at that point, force them into the van.
And took off to very isolated area. Farming area in sixty assaulted, both girls blogging them, then shot them to death. What are they doing on the right out? There were what was their initial reaction, and how did what did he say to them to get their compliance completely? I told them that you were just going out and find with them. If they cooperate it, he let them go and vague beyond their weight, so the girls were certainly frightened ass. Any one would be under those circumstances, but one thing
do that I would say, with the common denominator, with all the victims of the Galagos was the fear of being killed. He had to guns at every point, and so these first two victims, along with the others. They were hopeful that, if they just did what he asked, he would let them go just as he told him he would and unfortunately, the further they got away from society and potential witnesses. The more their fate was seal. Now he you say bludgeon them, then then he shot the first. He raped them. Charlene doing at this time. This is the first murder. You have said already that you think that she was
I too should it. You didn't think she'd thought that this would go as far as it did. What was her reaction? What did she do? What did she? How did she protest? Did she protest? What did she say? Did she screamed? The chief was area yeah, oh, where her reaction was. She just wanted to pretend as if it was not happening. She he left here in the then after found a secluded area that he felt he could finish the job, so she actually waited in the Van well. He shot these two teenagers to death and just happy view that you know. If I just pretend it didn't happen, maybe it you know I can live with that.
Am I believe it crossed your mind that at that point, no turning back for her, that if she to do anything or try anything did if you could do that to them, you could just as easily do it to her. So I think it was more of a sense of resignation on her part once it happened, she realized just what does he was willing to go to to fulfill his sexual fantasies while also staying out of jail. Now the thing is: is that there are, you know the prosecutor would disagree with some of that. We won't. We jump ahead at all, but for those even that have read this book, including myself,. It seems almost inconceivable that this woman would
the act the way you report in the book that she reacted. Despite the information you're giving me, it seems still, the most horrifying is that we just knew what was going on happen. What was going on, I knew how responsible she was in yet we can take your you know. I mean you're the written a book on this, but it still is it's hard to fathom that this woman could do what she did and it can. Itself. Well, girl. You know. The sad truth of the matter is that There are a lot of killers like her and Gerald who define logic in how they act. And react and in her case he was.
I mean if she had been the normal person, she would have run for the hills. You know the moment he began talking about these sexual fantasies and slaves and abducting girls, but she did it. So he didn't react, as one might do with you know they use their common sense, normal behavior, so for her behavior was abnormal. His pager was abnormal in death, but kept the two together through all of these victims. Sure he was. You know they hi ahead of time, so that help lower the innovations and he was just.
In a state of denial, I say yes to everything that was happening and, if as hard as they may be to fathom that's the case, a lot of these killers who are gathered, the partners of children who are aware of what is going on, they still try to distance himself from it, if only in their minds. By now, where does he he dumps these? How does he do both of these female victims doesn't bury them? He just don't them in the woods why he dumped in the desert farming areas or in the woods anywhere. He only one or two instances. We actually have buried them, but he wasn't very concerned about them once he gets
just some area outside of civilization that he felt they probably not to be. Disposed to buy animals out there or no one would happen to come up on him, so he wasn't very concerned well making sure that they were period never found for the most part. Now what happens next, with Charlene and Gerald? How long is it till their next, because we talked about this rampage been in it fairly close period of time, twenty six months or so so the next victims. Another of those circumstances there next time to push the sexual fantasies up to this murderous novel was on fire.
Thursday June 24th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine Brenda Manget Fourteen and Sandra Kaikhali thirteen were abducted from the show County fair in Reno NV. This time shouting once again acting as debate, she convinced him to come out the path handbills around put them on cars. So these two young teenagers. Impressed that they would be singled out by the innocent. Looking Charlene went with her and once again Gerald was waiting in his van, and
This time, with a forty four caliber over and under Derringer, you had a host of weapons that he like to use interchangeably so they were sexually assaulted, again bludgeoned, before being murdered with the forty four caliber now in terms of in terms of the d notice, what on the criminal law is the news stories? If the couple the first two female victims actually were lured into the van to smoke, marijuana there less less regarded as victims, because somehow, rather they brought some of this misfortune upon themselves. Now, with I recall in Brenda Judd, these really were even more innocent girls weren't they they're trying to make couple dollars handing out these handles right well in a manner of speaking, but for the first time around the shuffling chippy vote. Yes
they were going out under the guise of getting high. But you know that was a normal thing then, and probably is known to us all. Don't don't get me wrong, I mean. Are you saying it over five hundred days? I that's all it's. I mean it deserves the media's. I ended Even the rules is getting even more. I did try to cap for even more innocent. Victor, I mean they're all innocent there's, no such thing as a guilty victim, but I'm saying it's just you just paint the picture of how sweet and in that these victims really are. They are not hard and people at all, yeah and being blurred to their death. Right well for bringing in Sandra Kali Heavy one of them had a problem with running away at one point so, which is you know the the far cry between debt in going
in being abducted, bison cycle tat. But initially it was. Oh no priorities, we suspect as to whether or not these two teenagers had you run off somewhere or were taken to oil, and it was just the fact that this happened in a different state from the first to attack him and murders authorities when able to tie the pieces together at that point, and that was a big part of the success to Coregos had and staying on the land
for as long as they did cause Friday. They were doing this in three separate states. Moving back and forth, and authorities were investigating the separately, but not is something that was connected right, not at all lawyer. Ok, so after after the Sandra recalling Brenda Judd were killed and disposed of again, probably pretty. Similarly, who are the next victims and how long before the next murders. So the next murders were ten months later to the day April, 24th, one thousand nine hundred and eighty Karen Chipman twigs and stays Ryanne Redd Igon. Both seventeen were abducted from the sunrise mall in Citrus heights, suburb of Sacramento.
And they two were lured once again to smoke. Marijuana seems like they were rotating there bait victims and once again, Gerald was waiting. Sheldon did her part to perfection. Jail was waiting with the pistol Ann, as he had learned from his previous victims. The victims we're compliant in the face of a good, so. This was no really, this is breaking for him, and so this motivate him to keep doing it whenever the urge struck him, because. Yeah I had any persistence resistance once they saw getting, they were told the obedient.
And then you know once you get them in the Van Tide, him up and everything it was no, no turning back, unfortunately, for them they were raped, bludgeoned to death with a hammer In Limerick, county near love, like Nevada and whatever their bodies dump are, they were dumped in the desert. So still after the now six murders. Still, there's no police have not made any connections, however, if they don't believe they have a serious, they don't know they have a serial killer or serial killer couple on their hands at all right wow. Yes, they are unfortunately clue this at this point just isolated cases and in none of the cases you know had they really made much progress. They looked at a few people, but basically they didn't have anything solid.
When any one, so the cases were pretty much just in the air there was, while other things were happening. In the crime, world and illegal continue to. Move around and finding victims to go after now. The next murder is, is different. And so maybe tell us what's going on in Gerald and Charlene's life, if there are any changes that are happening, I mean we. We know that Gerald's on the run jerry is living, is murderous fantasy with his dream, wife, Charlene or what's going on in the background at some point, If I'm jumping ahead, part is Charlene is gets pregnant. If I'm jumping ahead go back to where the d his em
changes, worries, walking up the people himself is the rule that has worked so well for so long, somehow he's abandoning it or he's emboldened or he's is modifying his mo anyway, and so tell us about what turn of events creates. This change for them? Ok! Well, the Galagos were rotating between. Being called Gerald and shoving. Illegal and Steven fell and Charlene fell if they actually married under the second name second set of named so did they were married twice because Gerald was trying to escape this mother taking charge with the fake,
identity, and so no one with the wiser about his murderers activities, and so that was one thing did captain looking over their shoulders, but they also were had stepped up on there. Substance, abuse and we're becoming frankly a little reckless. At this point it got more reckless as time went on, but this was really when they began to Turn the corner in their pattern of behavior
shelving was pregnant at this time, when the next murder occured June, the seventh one thousand nine hundred and eighty they were near gold, Beach or Ann. Unlike the previous times, this time zero, he wasn't willing to just wait until. His fantasy young women, teenagers type came along instead. Just saw someone which happened, even the regular twenty one in pregnant. She was just walking down the street in here
just tell shoving. I won't hurt jogging Hobbes did then they argue that was pregnant jogging with pregnancy. You know, could have some sort of relate to dad I'm degree, but not enough to say well. Can we you're going to someone, Gerald. Did she just he said we wanted in? She was ok, that's that's what you want. That's what will do so they are
then the right, under the guise of riding she trusting chubby, whose debate once again he agreed to take a year she could get where she was going quicker in their ban, wouldn't want when the party was. It was obvious to lend Aguilar that our Shirley was also pregnant at a time. I don't think they actually came up
so while they were still in the van this time, they just drove up there. Put the window down and Charlene. Ask her if you like a lip type thing, so it wasn't till she actually was in the van, then I'm sure she realized she was pregnant too, but zero actually assaulted her in the Van rape, bludgeoned strangle and then eventually buried in the on the beach. An autopsy revealed that she had still been alive. While she was.
Berry but she suffocated from the sand well, so that was that brought it to a whole new level. He now had two murders dear together, one person and your unborn gout and the next woman is Virginia Mocha, local, thirty, four she's, thirty four years of age and Mother- tell tell us about this, because this is of course very, very important to the story. What happens with Virginia yes on July, the 17th one thousand nine hundred and eighty virgin the motto of West Sacramento bartender was different.
The gray goes, you were in the bar at the time seem like just a knife couple friendly. We can take their eyes of one another, and so she gained a false sense of security Virginia with these two and so when they left in others, eventually laptop cavern sheep, with the one who closed down the place- and he did TAT, went out to her car unbeknown to herd legos were waiting in their ban girl, integrated. And higher decided while they wait in the parking lot that they wanted her. He wanted her so once Virginia got their car
Heard knock on the window, driver side and thought was jerro an you know. He smells she's mousie assumed he, you know maybe have some carp
problem with something and she wrote down our window. Unfortunately, that's when he stuck his three hundred and fifty seven Magnum revolver in her face and for three out of the car, and in her case you know, being thirty four, a mother of two she had to endure being raped there in his Van Ann. The situation was so unsettling for her that she actually wanted to die. She just just situation where she was just so traumatized by it all hello,
Gerald, was only too happy to oblige and he shot her to death, and it was a month later before her body was found in place. Called Clarks. Berg in south then the other county in a swamp area. So this was another tragedy that happened because of the good goes, but once again they were able to die. To put it so to speak himself. I've been night without there being a close call. After Virginia local death, the authority we trying to question everyone that had been in the cabin that night in they were told about this young couple. There were
here that the seemingly having a good time and they were able to track down Charlene and actually had a detect, go to talk to her and when he did, she told him that calmly that she was there. She called him was with they were just drinking. I just come back from fishing at night and I didn't know anything about. The bartender what may have happened and since she had become seasoned and being uh charming conniving, he was able to convince the detected that she did know nothing about Virginia local murder and, from that point on two of them were in the free and clear once again. For the time being now, the tenth,
the eleventh murder, Craig Miller and Mary Elizabeth Sour is the end of other reign of horror, and you can tell us how that worked out there, and it was somebody that already police to them, because of course, we haven't ass the squire and asked this question, but were already up nine murders and the police have made no connection, they have no suspects and there these people are not even on the radar. They know that what you said about this I mean normally, when there's a serial killer, please able to can the dark pretty quickly. They may not know who the killer is, but they have a good building that serial killers on the loose but be cause. These two moved around use, different
guns and different methods of killing bludgeoning strangulation, shooting they just weren't able to connect the dots up to this point, the authorities, but their final two victims, Craigmillar twenty one and Mary Elizabeth showers. Twenty one college sweethearts, it California State University Sacramento. They were abducted on November, the second one thousand nine hundred and eighty they were at a fraternity. Then dinner, dance. Craig being a member of Trinity and they were leaving the return, the dinner dancer Strip, mall. I had around the same time that the Galagos were driving around.
In their car this time they had put aside there Van for an Oldsmobile an so just by pure chance, zero just told Charlene who was driving, pull up into this light, which was a lot of the Strip Mall and the restaurant, where the for turns you dinner, dance with securing, and so they just drove around like didn't see anyone in particular and then around going down to the second time. That's when they happen to spot Craig, Anotherin Mary, sour walking towards their car, and so do. I had become pretty requisite this plan. As you said, the drug
alcohol in combination hit picked up so and he had a sense of invincibility. I believe, after having successfully murdered nine people and never happened to face the police themselves even once so you have the sense of invincibility there, and so he got out of the car this time himself to meet them, create Miller and Mary's hours, that their car Ann pulled out his gun, twenty five caliber and till then there coming with him and he tried to make it seem like it would just be some sort of robbery or something, but he still wanted to go with him, which you know with red flag right there
sure so, but the gun, as had been the case with every single victim. Up to this point, these two victims they start again play at them in the thought, was depth right here. If we don't comply, so we had to go with him and Danielle, hopefully they'll that have go down to nine, so they got into the Oldsmobile and a fraternity. Brother of Craigmillar also happened to just come into the light at this time and saw his friends getting into this vehicle that wasn't their own. So he walked up to the vehicle with shouting before shelling could get back into the carpet. She had gotten out too, but she was this time the silent
partner as far as luring the victims. This time, it was just blunt- can tell you that dumb get into the car will help, but once this fraternity, brother walked up to the car to ask you know, what's going on here. It was shouting who told him to get the heck out of their mind, your own business and actually slapped him crazy. This big, you know fraternity brother. He was taken aback by that, but he still looking to the car. You know United friends and great told him also that you know you should leave. No not wanting him to end up being a victim if they were going to be so.
We got into the car and stormed off, but the fraternity brother, quick to the whip. He get the license. Plate number they're wrote it down. They notified the authorities, and that was the beginning at the end. For Can I go go eventually. This license plate identification number rub came into question because the authorities to use hypnosis to get this information from him and he was, nowadays, in the court's event, ivy he would they were enable the authority to use that part of what he saw prosecution, Joe Greg.
But in any event at that point the authority these finally had something to go on. Could they knew that this couple was missing and that this two people that paternity brother was able to describe pretty well young couple, we're the ones that were looking for that they believe were responsible for this reduction. So they actually were able to use license plate number to her trade.
What's your name, sorry, ok, I was able to chase this license plate to Charlene and they were sent to talk to her detective Ann. She was cold When came came, she said that that had had drawing on her her. That stated been fine tuned through all this. She said that she and her boyfriend was: can you that I didn't find him we just driving around the ultimate drink? Do you know anything about any college couple. You know you have the bone people drone car, so the detective
didn't have anything to hold her on the car. Wasn't even there at that point. So he told her that he come back later talk to her once he left.
Call Gerald and the two of them were on the run. Then I mean he, I think, realized at that point, that they want to them and best thing they could do was get out of dodge so to speak. The stories were able to find Craigmillar's body where it had been dumped shot multiple times in the head and for Mary Beth showers, which this is backtracking just a little bit before the authorities went to talk to Charlene, but Gerald in Shawnee took Mary's hours to their apartment that they were staying at at the time and where Gerald repeatedly raped her after he after she had witnessed her.
To get out of this alive, so she did whatever Gerald asked affair, which first was to go to the department without making a fuss that Jack need attention once he is finished with his sexual assault, while Charlene just said in another room, doing nothing allowing it happened. Then he took her out into. February and shot her to death yeah with at that point that they then came back to Charlene's place Joe dropped, her off, he went elsewhere and that's when the police detectives showed up to talk to her so once they got wind of these two victims then get Ann, some other circumstantial evidence connecting that car
to them illegal. They won't run that the state. Now where were they apprehended in what were the circumstances or they were apprehended in Omaha. November, the 18th nineteen 17th, one thousand nine hundred and eighty. They were cancelled by the FBI, while attempting to pick up money that had been prior to them by shouting, parents at a Western Union office right, so Gerald had said that he would never be taken alive if it ever came down to but he did come down to it. He gave up without anything but put his hands up. Came they were there, the fire power FBI Ion, if you give them any excuse, they were taken about, but he was
break die when all is said and done. In spite of what have you done to have another and shoving was captured in society with the union office. Geraghty waited outside is look out and she gave up without a thing were relief, prayers in anything. What I found interesting, too, is just going back a little bit and this is jumping ahead, but to show the cycle path, nature of Charlene and that's what I will call her as a psychopathic killer in there she was so calm and, despite the despite all the stress from police twice when things could've went the other way she could have cracked on normal people would have cracked. She was very cool, calm and collect, but also when the last victim mob was was taken to the home. The apart she waited for hours and her comment later was basically
how messy the sheets were going to be after a Gerald was finished, his ordeal of rape for hours and hours because he had such an insatiable need. So here her priorities were completely different than you, and I and there's no logic to it. I just wanted to point out that that that was another eerie part of your book. Where that will you get that information now now both of these are arrested and we're we're going to go a little bit longer into the hour? If you've got a couple minutes, because it's we won't go into the entire store, we got to have something for the readers to to hang onto, but was just initially what police did in terms of trying to get information from Gerald and from Charlene. What did they threatened Charlene with? What did they say to Gerald? Tell us how the police proceeded once they had them in custody. Ok!
Well, they were, as is often the case. When there are two perpetrators, they tried to pit them against one another to see if one could crack under the weight of what the other one may have said, sure I'm Gerald case he try to shave this something that the two of them are done equally and even suggested it Charlene had been the trigger person on more than one occasion. Charlie Trie too betrayed herself is a victim of sorts living with him under fear, and she was just strictly the setup person, but didn't do anything else as if that excuse her atrocious behave here so the authorities. At that point, we still only looking at.
Two murders that they were aware of Craigmillar shot with a twenty five caliber crystal. They. We're just intent on getting him to these murders, but Charlene had an ace in the hole that they weren't aware of, she was able to tell them about some other killings, quite a few others that she and Gerald Hip just paid it in Ann. She would be willing to tell them a lot more if they would cut her ordeal, and so the authorities in several counties and several states decided that when she began to spill the beans on these other killings that were open cases in several jurisdictions, they were very interested in this, and so in order to get closure
various families of these victims. They decided they would offer Charlene a deal of sixteen years and eight months in prison in Togo, if she turned states evidence against Gerald so that he would be one the day go actor with everything they had, and so she agreed that testify against german court Gerald acted ass. His own attorney in his first rally was tried in California first and then the bottle. And so they were literally pitted against one another in court, as he attempted to breaker, and she attempted to stand by her statements regarding what happened. He was convicted of murder, Murder INC,
another in Mary, Beth, sour and other murders were linked to court. We have, even though they weren't specifically named it, did you go and draw on trial for two of those he did go and drop warned about it. So he was given a death sentence. In California and two years later, one thousand nine hundred and eighty four he was given a death sentence in Nevada for two murders and he still alive to this day. I no actually he died in the early 2000s of rectal cancer in prison and he had spent you
here in the courts court's appeal after pill. He was sort of used, the California and Nevada. I mean California Nevada to his advantage, because he could feel one state and an appeal, the other, and so he was able to do this to stay alive all these years and still cancer caught up with him right. You love in one thousand, nine hundred and ninety seven Charlene was released. Having served her sixteen years and eight months Ann, she was told this you would have to register as a felon wherever she lived, but other than that she was free to do whatever she wanted. So this has been one of the things that people have told me angrily did. Did you can understand how. Shoving gonna go direct disappear
eleven murder could get off that by setting an denied. I kick can argue, that with them be cause it's hard to imagine today for sure that any person that was involved in ten murder I've been having murders good get off with developed to be light thinking. Yes, I tat, and so the authorities have defended this set of data is by saying: did they still felt that it was best to. Go after him as to main person the trigger man, the one who did all the brutalities, but the lure is just as bad as the persons. It actually does these horrible things I mean she. She made it possible for just about every instance all of the instances. In fact, even though,
there too, he was their driving around doing whatever you wanted Europe until they found a victim. So I think a life in prison without the possibility of rule would have been a good deal for her versus death sentence, but I believe that that being said, unless I'm wrong here, the authorities would have never known about those other murders or it would be unlikely they would have made, maybe a link and all those other murders. So she did do a service in terms of families looking for some again and that's not closure, but some form of some bit of closure in terms of knowing about you, know the whereabouts of their missing loved ones. Well, her good deed. If you will was chick fee for self preservation or sure oh, he he's no safer measure.
Numbers might have preferred. They could do it over again if they knew that she would get such relatively light sentence. They might rather to have seen her follow the same path as Gerald end up on death row. The sector has, just after shoving, get up a prison. He appeared on the Tokyo in which he well, she muttered defended. Her since is being forced upon. Here is another victim of zero.
Could they go so she tried to use the abuse, excuse that she was frightened of him and he had to do what she did, so she wouldn't get killed, but family members of victims rejected that right, not too, surprisingly, sure go, and so I think that perhaps if the authorities could do it over again, they would have made that sentence differ because they really held the cards more
and she did then, once she was once they became a price of these other victims. They could have still put the heat on her and get her to give up information while still giving her a stiff sentence. Oh yes, I think yeah, I think most people when they read the book when they even hear about the case. If they looked at the trial, they would not a big stretch for them to believe that she was a willing particip. And a psychopathic killer and just as guilty as Gerald for agreeing to everything in the first place and of course everything was just for her survival. The only Good thing is that we do have again. We just know about some murders that we might not police Not a put together, and certainly girl, wasn't talking as it were, to a very great crime, documentaries based on
sex. They murdered one. The back of the channel crimes story, did one card lovely murders and then on investigating discoveries. Wicked attractions theory twisted to some episode based on the book, so those they ve been out for a couple of years now, but they show the re run. Quite a bit on tv, and you could actually get these dvd's online and as well as the trailer for them. So you recommend both of these. Yes, I do actually because I thought they both are. They both had thier perspective with slightly different and how they presented the cases, but I thought that they did a good job in giving the viewers a glimpse of the dark side of life, just how two.
Of the most brutal killers couple in history, I believe how they got started in housing went through these killings in there. Traveled inept method thought that they did a good job in depicting the things that I had in the book. That's good yeah, usually don't usually don't get others that singing praises of television versions of their story. So that's good to the disease democracy there anyway and respect for what they have done now. We just got a couple minutes very, but maybe you can tell us a little bit about. You must have a must, have a website but I also wanted to know that you were the author of about forty published books. Some infection crime thrillers but tell us something,
me a true crime books. You have, and maybe just tell us a little bit about your background, and I was also interested in your interest in Ripper Aladji. Well, I have a and masters degree in criminal justice from Michigan State University. That's how I going into this world a criminal energy, and I have several to crime book in many criminology books under my belt. I have. New true crime, anthology coming up my ex summer called masters of true crime, killing toy the murder in the car binds the editor and get quite a few of the best selling your crime writers out dear Catherine, Ramstein, Harold Shatner, Michelle
the amount of land, and many more of that. One thing I am working on two criteria be out in some of them. What is that is gonna going to be short stories or when it was first story short through crimes new true story knew the short stories are yet dead, yet Yeah. That sounds like a great idea sounds like a good idea really looking forward to that too. Yes, I will be happy to come back on, like some we'll talk about it reality. My contributors is well too come on. No, it sounds great. I mean I know the lineup. I've had quite a few of them on my program already, including yourself now so get a really looking forward to that. It's gonna be a unified actually such as a ship. Now from it used to be fictional short stories, horror stories now too, because nonfiction nothing can top like a story here.
Does it credible? This is a story that I was not aware of. Yet it's in such a fantastic, incredibly horrific story with incredible amount amount of victims, and these in credit, what personalities. So it's just the wounded fiction when you ve got nonfiction. At the level that we have so many incredibly horrifying? True stories? Yes, yes, that's! Certainly a scary tell minutes just reflecting of this violent society. We live in where. People that may appear on the outside to the. Normal law abiding citizens can be brutal killers, like Geraldine, Shelving Gallego, the sex tape. Murders can be found found in bookstores to Amazon dot com for people.
I read a book, it send gender look, Google books, you can find it it bookstores local book doors well they're out of it. They ordered for you just by asking why not? I saw that you're doing really it's really popular on Kindle right now, number five serial killer. Another number one right now in Amazon, for books on offenders. Well,. Two in criminology books, so it's really taken off. In Amazon and doing well, then Barnes and Noble well can a Knook book. So I invite noble. And yeah, I know it's today, younger audience, I think, is a new audience is getting turned on to this book again. So I think that's really good and congratulations that you're having so much success as an e book as well. I think that the covers distance
about two by the way, I think I just I just actually the seriousness of the iter her story without a lot of a lot of covers, I that could that could be better, and I really really was impressed with the cover of your book. It was amazing. We'll catch your eye so good at some, I think, cover you always says a lot about a story and if you can. Capture the interest of the reader by the covered the nets have the battle. I think oh yeah, absolutely these days for sure, certainly, and just just for just for a note, we didn't talk about you. Are you a river ologist an? What is your interest in Jack, the ripper oh jack? The ripper is perhaps the standard by which serial killers have been measured ever since one thousand eight hundred and eighty eight, when he did his thing, killing Prof
the two in London and the White Chapel area. So the fact that Jack the ripper was never identify, and yet everyone knows who jack to repress. I've always me fascinating to me because being a criminologist in writing about serial killers, he's like the one did, really put serial killers on the map, so to speak. In fact, since the gripper, that's really when these nicknames that have been attached to killers serial killers began. So you know other things that we've heard about since then. The killers that have been names, such as the Boston strangler
Yorkshire, Ripper, don't waste library said about that are really began during the jack the Ripper days. My fascinating also had to do with the prostitute angle, for here my written a number of books from prostitute. My latest one prostitution in the digital age. That just came out last month, but long before the digital age, prostitutes were still plying their trade ah and the fact that in Victorian England, you had the serial killer, there was taking him out, mutilating M ghastly, ways and somehow evading authority not even sure the killer. This is male to female. I just really with something that
caught my attention naturally, and was just something that I felt was a killer that set the stage for other killers in terms of their brutalities and other killers that have chosen prostitutes is their victims, such as the Green River killer, and then the fact that, with Jack the ripper there were so many pie, the ability to victims, I mean for our perpetrator primarily day, we're looking at people like slaughterer through a butcher's resurgence of decisions. Due to the man with the women were mutilated and then some experts so did the river with educated upper class person such as aristocrat.
Who made it take it out his frustrations on lower class women, and then there's even been so? Who is speculated that the killer may have been a midwife? We had a hatred for prostitutes and you could easily moved around Whitechapel Whitechappel being a suspect. So I think that the fact that Jack the ripper allows such a stretch of the imagination, because here's the killer, that is perhaps the most infamous killer in history- Certainly, as a serial killer in yet we really have no idea who to cope with the true culprit was, but. And this is like to the imagination- and it gives criminologist like myself the opportunity to study that crime in relation to elect criminality.
About intimidation to today's serial killers and give us a practising specific. I actually I've written a book, a novel, that's half Fixing in her effect caused the dark streets of Whitechapel, that's also out and Kim do a nook in Google E books it. This novel is when, in which I use much of what I know about the real jack the ripper. Only I have my
should there be an american jack. The ripper who please America to go to London had been captured by authorities in the United States in New York City and so in London. He goes on to follow the exact tat. Death is a historical document of the various people that Jack the Ripper killed. Like Mary Nichols any Chapman Elizabeth tried, Catherine Eddowes and Mary Jane Kelly, and so I have fun with that and also There is a brick wall. He did a brick wall to Jack the ripper yet interesting, oh yeah, yeah big, I think Jack. The ripper is fascinating, as well as the how early on you know how. Many years ago, he almost
created true crime in the media, with the newspapers created a frenzy, but also his contact with the authorities and the organ removal where either today are there I've been some crimes. I was involved with while of course follow the case where someone did it taking early ripper, ask type murder, but still the horrifying name of what he did: the contact, taunting authorities, the mutilation and display of the victims, and then escalation. He really was set the standard for serial killers. I mean he really way over achiever. That's for sure it does contain a police with these latter gearbox sausages, He pulled garden from hell letters that these there were hundreds of letters. Tat would be sent
to the authorities and newspapers at the time, but most of them went nowhere as far as having any credibility, but these stuff three letters in particular the similarity in the handwriting and knowledge that the person seemed to have convinced the authorities that they might actually had their men behind these letters. But we weren't able to unfortunately find the suspect to find someone to take it definitively point order Jack the Ripper. Yes, that's for sure. Well we're going to have to wrap up now last that we could go on forever. I mean it has been very, very enjoyable of talking to you bury for our audience. You been listening to our berry flowers with his incredible book.
Now available and evil can knock and Google books the sex slave murders, sadness also imprint as well. Where'd you get an Amazon that kind of bread again. Yes, I see that it's, it's amazing every issue of an incredible story. It's definitely warranted the sex slave murders. They are very flowers. Thank you very much for showing up. And appearing on our little program here. Berry. Thank you very much, and I hope you talk to you again real soon and back again. Sometime. Absolutely as soon as you want to be coming back on. Just let let me know maybe we'll have even on before next summer, with the new anthology of short story true crime stories, with all the biggest names in true crime. So I'm we look forward to that and I'm sure audience will to thank you much very for this interview and have yourself a ok, faint, Eu Dan Dickie. I thank you.
Even listen to the programme to murder the more shocking killers in true prime history, with your hosts, dance vassiki and we ve been discussing the sex slaves there's by arberry flowers. Look him up and see the other amazing books that this author has have yourself a good evening, goodnight, Hi folks, Dierks Bentley, here being on the go, is a big part of my life. I love seeing new places, meeting new people and performing all over the world for enerji on the go for Maine it's five hour, energy. It works fast works long and it tastes. Good was zero sugar in four calories. Try it it could work for on the go life two five hour: Energi Energi on the GO get five hour, energies at your local Wawa and
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.