John Crutchley seemed to be living the American Dream. Good-looking and blessed with a genius level IQ, he had a prestigious, white-collar job at a prominent government defense contractor, where he held top secret security clearance and handled projects for NASA and the Pentagon. To all outward appearances, he was a hard-working, successful family man with a lavish new house, a devoted wife, and a healthy young son.But, he concealed a hidden side of his personality, a dark secret tied to a hunger for blood and the overriding need to kill. As one of the most prolific serial killers in American history, Crutchley committed at least twelve murders, and possibly nearly three dozen. His IQ elipsed that of Ted Bundy, and his body count may have as well. While he stalked the streets hunting his unsuspecting victims, the residents of a quiet Florida town slept soundly, oblivious to the dark creature in their midst, unaware of the vampire next door. THE VAMPIRE NEXT DOOR-The True story of the Vampire Rapist-J.T. Hunter and Detective Robert Leatherow
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night Stalker Dck every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers crime, history through murder, with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening. This episode of true murder is brought to you by audible, the world's leading name and digital audio books, audible, podcast, dot, com, slash true murder, John Crutchley,
seem to be living the american dream good, looking and blessed with a genius level iq. He had a prestigious white collar job at a prominent government, defense contractor where he held top security, top secret security clearance and handle projects for NASA and the Pentagon, all I appearances, he was a hard working, successful family man with a lavish new house, a devoted wife and a healthy young son, but he can still the hidden side of his personality. A dark secret tie to a hunger for blood and the overriding need to kill as one of the most prolific serial killers in american history, Crutchley committed at least twelve murders, and possibly nearly three dozen is IQ eclipsed ellipse, that of TED Bundy and his body count may have as well while he stalked the streets hunting his unsuspecting victims, the residents of a quiet Florida
found slept soundly oblivious to the dark creature in their midst, unaware of the vampire next door. The book there were featuring this evening is the vampire next door, the true story of the vampire rapist, with my special guest journalist and author Jt Hunter and Detective Robert Leather. All welcome to the program. Jt Hunter and active Robert leather out, thanks Dan and happy to be here, and let me say, a quick happy early thanksgiving to the folks back here at home, thanks very much of gentleman for agreeing to this interview. Congratulations on fantastic book JT and congratulations on Robert Leather, the for being a dedicated police officer who had the guts to be able.
Paul. This thing all the way through amazing, incredible story, and let's get right to that. Robert leather. Please tell us your your history as a homicide, detective or as a detective and and and not without, without giving anything away. Just give us your background and and so that we can. Maybe possibly understand a little bit more of your involvement. In this case already, I was a police officer altogether, but the the eight years, I have a passion degree in safety administration. I'm a graduate the FBI National Academy in Quantico Virginia and I work close to a. I guess rough. Fifty murders are better in my career well
now JT. How did you come to write this book? What was tell us how you came to want and feel compelled to write this incredible story: the vampire next door well live and my my father actually lived in the area where John Crutchley had moved to in Florida and he he had heard the story of of of gradually, and he he told me story, one time and give me the the rough details about it and When I heard it, I thought to myself. You know this is really. This is really an interesting story and I really wanted to follow up with it. So I started digging into it some more and found some old articles on it and uh. Was able to get in touch with with Bob who had worked the case extensively? He had
and you know the main the case agent on on the on the case, and so he was intimately familiar with what had occured in the case and was able to talk with him extensively his experience and the more I learned about of the more fascinating the story came in really a lot of a lot of twist to the story that really make it telling tale. Now that's an understatement. Now, let's just get to, I love the way you guys of the way you laid out this book, and I read- I really like it because it's important because there's various ways of people finding out information, but it's nice to find out the information just at the right time and and that's what this is twists and turns, but really very surprising, very, very, very surprising and shocking.
And very unique. Let's get to nineteen year old, Christina Alma tell us a little bit about her and what she was doing in this. You know, November of nineteen. Eighty five tell us about Christina Alma Okay, well, she. She was from California and She had met a guy who had come over there to California and had developed some romantic attachment to And he ended up going back to Florida, not too long after that, and she ended up deciding she wanted to come over and visit him. And uh he. His name was Carl VON Bane and he lived in. The palm harbor Florida area, which is what brought her over to Florida and she she was nineteen and.
You know, you're still, young girl and came over and dumb stay, with Carl One being in his mother in there. They had a a trailer in a mobile I'm in a the community there and She she stayed about a week and near the end of her time there a doubt a day or so before she was going to return to California. Actually is when she unfortunately happen to cross paths with with John gradually now John Crutchley, before we get into this altercation. Give us the background on John Crutchley. Well, John, is Zz like to be called from a.
You know. Certainly, a middle class upper middle class family background in the in West Virginia is his father. Was a executive ended up being an executive for a gas company that he worked for as much as entire career and his mother was a stay at home mom essentially, but Jb's family had some about circumstances of he had an older sister who died under some very strange circumstances before debut as
actually born and to his mother, never really recovered from that, and she always wanted another daughter to replace the daughter that she had had lost and actually for the beginning of of JB's life. He was. He was treated as a girl. He was, he was dressed in girl's clothes. The first four or five years of his life and is mother, repeat we reinforced to him that she had wanted a girl, and you know she she's actually wish that he was a girl and I think that that impacted in quite a bit psychologically growing up, as you might imagine, and and he was a bright kid. He had some some troubles focusing in school because.
Does how smart he was. It was not easy for him to to keep it at. On the matters at hand, because it was essentially little to elementary for him. So surprisingly, he didn't do great in school, even though he had a extremely high iq, but he did end up earning some degrees and became an engineer and worked for a large number of computer engineering corporations, doing computer programming compute engineering and eventually ended up working for companies that worked closely with military parts of the government, including the Pentagon and working, and
creating communications, computer communications programs and codes for the Us Navy where he let's put in contact with a lot of secret information. He he ended up acquiring as well and he was the legacy- is a very smart guy. He was one of the one of the most interesting things I found about him is how he was able to you can have it really to world. At the same time he had his is a professional aid, his white collar. Side, his his family man sort of facade side, and yet he also had this. This dark
side that no one really realized what was his behavior characterized from the people that did know him growing up people that work with was was he really noted as an odd person or what was his behavior depicted as what was? How did people regard him as terms of his behavior? during the course of his working he he tended to be little bit of a loner at times he was devoted to his work in that respect. He he he did I have a a social cool side. If you will, he was charismatic, he was viewed to have some quirks.
Some odd mannerisms. For example, one thing that was that was talked about was: a certain way of walking, but he seemed to instead of instead of walking like a normal person, might walk, he seemed almost balance in his step and almost as if he was trying to attract mention to, but he was certainly regarded as a as a smart guy and intelligent guy, only in the in the world of computer programming, which was
you know what a newer industry back in the seventies and eighties, which is when he was involved in it. It was more of a an up and coming technology at a time. You have some fantastic photos and in the book, and I got to congratulate you to it really harkens back to true crime, classics and and true crime, the best of true crime in the past, and that might seem shocking to some people, but seeing Skelton's and and other photos in your book. But for those that are looking at the book right now tell us what how you could describe run. John Crutchley in terms of this is Google appearance and his was in masculine, or was he more effeminate? Tell us what it did he really look like physically Bob might be able to give you some good get insight on that dealing feeling up close with him quite a bit
The waves of the way- I I I I was told in the things I've seen in the the footage I've seen of him, because of course he he he died before I never got around to writing a book about him although I would have been very interested to have met him and sat down with him, but he it wasn't a big guy. He was he's about average size. I think that he was. He was a fairly attractive guy and get a nice facial features, and he I think he he was- distracted by typical women, and but he was
He wasn't. He wasn't a large intimidating sort of presidents and I think that's part of what aided him in the the darker activities he was involved in as he didn't come across this someone threatening. He didn't seem like this. The monster you would imagine he came across as a a normal person, eh professional person but, as I said, Bob might be able to comment on that a little bit a little more sure. So what what we gonna go ahead. Freshen sure What was your impression when you first saw him? What was I mean again? We we talk about the knowing the really recognize a monster, but what is your first and Of what he looked like, his stature was imposing I or not. No, he was not in
using very slight built. I think that thing it brought my attention to was writing beginning when I met the victim at the hospital, the youth question going through all my know, all the stuff that we have to go through. I asked her, description and how old was he she sat there and looked at me. She said I can tell you, I don't know if he was twenty or thirty, I don't know, and I can I got. I was a little annoyed at that. I kept asking her what do you give me an idea, see twenty five was at thirty five and she would not go. Being answer? Should I don't know and when we play the arrest at night, the team, the homicide team I saw what she was saying. He was very slight built long blonde hair that was all bleached out. He died his hair. And he had, I felt a lot of very.
And features about him yeah. Okay, what I got from the photo that he was find out how you describe now the talking about some of this his darker side before we get into the? What would you and all of us would talk about the real dark side? What was his sex life characterized by and and what was his history in terms of relationships with women? Was it a good one or a bad one according to so later re, search. Well, he he became sexually active more when he went off to school and college, and he he had relationships with a lot of different women. And he ended up going down a line where he became much more?
experimental with the sexual interest, his second cool activities as he went along and predict particularly Aibel when he moved to the Washington DC area, he became involved with with the group there. I believe that really did a lot of I mean, I guess. So it's a more kinky sexual activities and in fact that's when he met one of the nurses that he dated he. He dated a lot of nurses for some reason. He himself didn't seem like he quite understood that one of these nurses was well versed in vampirism for lack of a better word. She introduced him to the practice of withdrawing
blood from another person and drinking it, and he that became incorporated into his. Sexual repertoire, so to speak, and I became something that He became heavily involved in an continued that through through his his second marriage. He married earlier in his life and his first wife mon was her name. She told investigators about how he would get violent and,
In their sexual times, together in particular, he enjoyed choking her and it was something he did repeatedly and continued throughout the rest of his wife, really until he was caught and and put behind bars, but he had a lot of more deviant practices involved in his sexual background. Now was it was the vampirism was a confined to people. He would. He would meet online outside of a relationship or did he in the relationship that he was in his? He was promiscuous guy. What was the able to the practicing vampirism in a steady relationship and these other
outside relationships as well? Well, he claims that he had been taking blood from his wife, his second wife, and had been doing that I think you said about a hundred times or hundreds of times, so they were certainly that was certainly an element of his is legitimate relationships and it it became clear that this is an element that was involved in his
His criminal activity as well, including with Christine all and we talked about a little bit before no with Christina Alma. She goes for a walk, she's, looking to see her up up to meet her boyfriend, one pain and she walking outside this mobile park. It's November, twenty first nineteen, eighty five, this is innocent woman. She still hasn't lost her virginity, see as you describe in your book. She's listening to Madonna's like a virgin, album and and she's a small young girl and she's goes out for a walk. Take it for,
in there. What who does she meet an? What does the encounter resulting well? She was walking along the road outside of the the commune she she was staying at and Crutchley John Crutchley happened to be dry. Driving home from work and during believe during his lunch hour, and
across our spotter- and this was the early. This is the way that he came across a lot of his victims. He Saddam along the roadsides, walking alone hitchhiking, and he saw her walking and offered her a ride. It was there is a little bit of rain and he offered her a ride, and you know, as I said, he didn't look like a threatening type of person. You look like a nice guy. He acted like a nice guy, and she accepted the right and that's when the.
That's really when her name or started. He the chatted with her pleasantly for awhile and said, hey. I need to stop by my house, because I need to pick up notebook. I left that I need for work and she said: okay, you know that's fine and stopped at the house. He got out to go to to go, find the notebook to go inside. Just before you went in the house yeah. He asked her if she wanted to come in and offered her a drink or something and she she declined. She said now you know. Basically I need to. I need to go get to where I was going. My you know. My friends are going to be worried about me and that sort of thing and he went in the House-
Listen came back out a little while later and said he couldn't find it. It must be in the car, so he walks over to the car, which she still she still sitting in the passenger seat at this point and he gets behind her in the car and just all the sudden he pushes the feet for She's sitting in with such force that she goes flying forward and hits her head in the dashboard essentially, and she he ends up with rope around her neck and jokes Now drag her into the house, the next thing she knows she wakes up she's tie down on a counter top table and
Standing next to her naked, except for a a necklace with a pendant on it and that's when That's when the really really bad stuff again. Now I want to ask you Robert at this point just in nineteen. Eighty five did John Crutchley ever come to the attention of your office or any police agency, and if so, what were those char? No, we had We weren't, even where he was in our area, nothing state of Florida, It's all, I know, is as we go along. You probably get into it, but he had a problem with Virginia authorities, and after later
That's when we contacted Virginia once we we have made the arrest and everything if that answers your question properly. But, yes, it does. Thank you now you were talking about what was next in store for Christina Alma. What is really in store which makes it unique and we talk about the vampire, what what did she discover when she woke up, and was he in that position to blood lead at that time or tell us tell us about that component of this unique torturous, behavior. Well, she was held their captive in his house for.
I would say around twenty hours or so approximately and and during that, throughout that time she was raped a number a number of occasions and as a part of that sexual fall process. He also in her blood several times throughout that time period and drink it in front of her, and he used simply use the method that he was taught by. His is nurse acquaintance from the DC area and he used you surgical needles and tubing. To drain the blood whatever different parts of her body on both of her arms and also, I believe, her legs and.
Essentially drained it into a glass container like a beaker Ann. Drink it and when she asked him what he was doing, he told her that he was drinking your blood and that he was a vampire now. What was the results in terms of her health. Immediately from taking a certain amount of blood and how much blood did he actually take at that time,.
Well during the course of the entire ordeal he ended up draining forty percent of our blog bodies, blood volume. I believe- and it was such a such a large volume of blood that had she not received medical attention when she did, she would have. She would have died very soon and. She was fortunate to get bad medical attention because she did. She did ultimately escape from the his house where he was where he was keeping her through some very fortuitous circumstances. So
he did draining large volume of her blood and it turned out that he had become quite familiar with the amount of blood that could be withdrawn from from a human. You know she getting to the point where it became life threatening, so he he knew what he was doing. He knew how much she could take or not take from a person, Did he did they have conversations in this twenty hours where she was lucid enough to understand and and had some? I guess, significant questions for him. What was the exchange like in many of those hours? What what kind of facts were gained by her? I well, you know she was, as you can imagine. She was terrified and she asked him.
What he was doing at times, and you know what why he was doing it to her and She noticed that he had a video camera setup and it is recording what was going on, and she asked him about that why he was doing that. He made some comment to the extent that you know it's not nothing you need to worry about. This is just something for my own. Personal use No, I do this for for everyone. That's in your situation, implying that he had done this with with other women as well other girls as well, and
There was there is a you know. As you go, you might imagine. There was food. There is some some superficial, old sort of banter back and forth just to try to get him to see her as much as some victim to do what he wanted to do. But you know, as a person and yeah one point said that he he wasn't supposed to do this, but he was getting attached to her. It was something he wasn't supposed to be doing Because his his mo was to treat his victims as really as objects, not as nice, people and associated with that was a lack of any sort of,
Empathy or emotional attachment to them, but apparently in this case for whatever reason he had mentioned that he felt like he was becoming attached to her now. What kind of changes are happening in that twenty hours in terms of her her health, like you, had alluded that he understood how much blood he could take out of someone, but he also knew how much blood he could take out of someone in in the purpose of that was to immobilize them. So so what happened in this regard? She's young she's healthy? What what happens is she less susceptible she stronger. What what what happens here? That's a little different yeah
as best I could tell that it was a combination of her youth and being a particularly healthy young girl that she was able to still function at a level to the able to ultimately escape. He ended up after draining her blood several times after having raped her a number of times He had put her in a bathtub in and she was handcuffed- she had shackles on. He left her there, He had to go why? Why about sub, though, why bathtub well, it seems like it would be, serve several purposes, one of which would be
easily disposable of the the body after she expired, which. Seems to be the way he went about doing this was he would have the the victim. The girl. At such a point where she was. On her way, out close to death and and would have him in the bathtub and then once they were dead, it would make disposal much easier as far as. Dismemberment of the body. The blood can drain down the down the bathtub drain, So he had her in there and she was fortunately able to get her sub get herself up out of the bathtub and get out of the bathroom through a bathroom window that
I just happen to have a malfunctioning lock on it. There were two locks on the window, just one of those type of windows where you have to push you in the the to block pieces on each end of the window at the same time, and one of them was not working mother was broken. That's how she was able to get out of out of the bathroom. Otherwise she never would've got out there because she was handcuffed and if she had to do both of those pieces at the same time, she would not have any. Able to do that with the handcuffs and she never would have got out of there. And we want to be talking about the story today, because that's the only in a story ever came to light is 'cause. She was able to escape. No. What was her state was she closed? The half clothed the half half where she stark raving mad and where did she run to and who was a rescuer now she and she was completely unclothed. She grabbed a towel in the bathroom,
On her way out, she had the force yourself through the window. It was, you know, was on a large window. She had to squeeze yourself through it and had he had grabbed a towel on the way and dropped out the window to the ground outside and stumbled through through the through the yard, at the house there and made her way up through eh a swale. Very over an overgrown swale and made her way eventually onto one of the one of the roads, one of the dirt roads near the house there and was making her way as best she could considering her her state and the fact that she was handcuffed and had shackles on her. Lady, she was making your way down the road the best she could.
Stumbling down the road essentially and she had the towel draped around her, and that was really it and one truck approached her and kept going. Apparently had to two women in it and they kind of looked at her and just kept on going may whatever reason. And eventually another truck came and just had trying it. I lived in the area not too far away the few houses down and at first he wasn't going to stop either. He thought that she was just some kid playing some sort of strange game or maybe doing some kind of prank. So he was in a stop at first either, but something about her made him stop something something in her face. The look on her face made him stop and he stopped, and you know, after all, we know what's going on he's playing around and she told
oh no, she told him that she had been held captive in it. What was going on, and so he help her in the in the truck and took her to his house and called call the authority. And on the way to his house, when she was in the car as he started driving she pointed at at the house, she, managed to escape from and said remember that house remember that house and and that's how that's how he was found ultimately found. No, detective Robert Leather, so tell us. Take it from here in terms of the contact with police. And when did you actually came in contact with with this woman and this case and tell us your and just tell us, take the of the police information from here? What how did the police respond and the search warrant and John Crutchley in the home and see from here? Please, okay,.
Well. It started the. I was out all night on another case and I just left the hospital, and I got back home and my pager went off to respond back to the hospital and my supervisor that time informed me that this display of lost a lot of blood and You need me to respond to the hospital. I responded Holmes Hospital Anna Appan, getting there I was surrounded by the nurses and one of the doctors doctor Stern, We had to see me. I walked in and wasn't sure what was going on and they told me about this basic real, quick. The girls almost going to die from loss of blood from exposure and I had to put into a private room. They girl there for a lady. What dragon from Kasa
And she want to hold our department. Are people got their first and the victim. She really didn't want to say anything. She was kind of nervous upset and the lady against rape, cuts there and demanded that, send somebody there and that's what I got sent in there I started the interview, the girl and hospital staff had cut the the shackles and handcuffs off there in the towel they were that was laying in the corner, I think within fifteen minutes. I put my tape quarter on and start talking to her swore her in and within ten minutes. I stop the tape, but I knew what was going on I excuse myself for momentarily. I called my supervisors and advise them and from there we sent people to the house to watch the house. People went to the party and pick them up's house, the interview, Mister Harper,
I spent a few hours at the hospital interviewing the victim and then the doctors to see what what the it's worth at. At that time they weren't sure she was going to make it through the night. They were concerned such a great loss of blood that she might expire, on night and from there within about four or five hours. So I responded to our precinct and I wrote a search warrant and the affidavit for a search warrant. We assisted with you of attorney came down to assist me with my affidavit and that evening I responded to a Johnson's house, probably about midnight to search warrant, signed an approximately two the seven on the 23rd third psalm, so team would are, road patrol so round the house and made the arrest of mister quickly at that time, and then we
from then on we sat down in his kitchen and we took a. We did an interview with him And he was very outgoing with us. You to explain everything to us. So what was going on and he could understand he kept saying that this girl was a willing participant in the whole thing, which we know was not correct, but we took statements from him. Sworn statements And we moved our our crime scene. People took a lot of inside the house and we remove him from his it's probably. The following morning and he was take indoor county jail in that place. Their wrist by myself in a team. And what were the they what were you? What were all the charges involved? Kidnapping abduction tell us the various charges he was. He had relating in K
but we had a kidnapping sexual battery in sexual battery. We When did charge him with the taking of the human blood, set the blood and and we found some different product in the house. We charge them with that defect. The blood, of course, was done away with later on, before he played guilty to all the charges now for JT. How does the media respond to this The knowledge about this bloodletting, this vampire and or how does the media portrayed this story and are they interested in it? Oh you It was certainly took on a life its own in the media? The came to be known, as is the vampire rapist and the the blood taking became a big popular topic in the media. It was
who is picked up, not just local, even statewide, when National ended up in even in national coverage and was was was followed very very closely and crutchley. Like like is not uncommon. With these sort of criminals
Became very enamored with his own fame in the media. He he followed the stories about himself and he he enjoyed it and it was. It was something that that he and he he likes. He even jokingly, referred to himself as Hell Malabar. He lived in Malabar Flores, who called himself county all of our, and he he really. He really enjoyed it. The media coverage, it was the son, are specific side of himself coming out with and is something that a tree he shared with some some of the more famous serial killers like like, like Bundy, now we're getting a little head so we'll get back to Robert Leather and and how please proceed when they, when they have him, and they have the description of this crime Robert. What did the police doing
terms of the possibility. They may have be tide to other rapes, and so what? How does that investigation go in terms of past crimes potential? Well, as I said you know, we took numerous amount of evidence out of the house a lot of uh different Female drivers licenses are id cards a lot of necklaces and chains and then that November. Now, in January. He was indicted by a grand jury and at that, I could not write a search warrant for the Harris Corporation where he worked and in January uh once the invite came down. I was allowed how to go into the building. With my partner with security. And we went into his office and that's when we came up on a lot of stuff. The security people were emptied at his desk and everything 'cause. He was being.
Relief from the working there and at that time, I found a lot of evidence of females in heavy bondage Ropes and chains, three or four file course about seventy of them with the. Ladies females names and addresses their sexual preferences, their stores and in the desk. We have found an opaque envelope that security, It was a picture of one of my victims in a couple of her children, Patty Lanski, and we have never found her body yet to this day,. And at that time we found a calling card from the Fairfax County, detective, detective, Fred, five and being in police work for so long. It's unusual get ahold of somebody right away. I asked use a phone, they put me to another room and I called Fairfax County
detective Aspart homicide squad as for Detective Fife, and I got on the phone with detect the five. Told what I had and what I was doing and he knew John Crutchley right away. He was a suspect in a a homicide up in Fairfax, VA with a secretary I work for John. She was found about a year later. Asculta remained out of the wooded area and detect the flight. When I converse back and forth He food out with another detective from Fairfax Virginia to work for, came down your crime scene vice vice versa. We went up there and, as I said, they have no victim up there. It was a few other ones that were possible when John was living there, but one was was his Secretary at work and the they were dating or going out together, and he was the la person to see her. She disappeared. He was at home when the detectives went to the house when her grandmother reported her missing and a few
Days later, John showed back up at his trailer Fairfax County There interview him and he Yeah denied everything. An unknown to him that he had asked him to take a polygraph test at that time. He said yes, and then he got real nervous about taking it, but he did take it eventually. A couple weeks later, and he wasn't aware of it, but he failed the polygraph test, recording the debits, John, so we had a connection with Fairfax County and there was a lot of other females in that area that were missing and the only one we could put him together was with Debbie Piss John 'cause. She had worked with him right. I hope that answers your question. Yes, it does now with the with the impending trial, with Christina Alma. How does that proceed in terms of.
Does he is? He have the means to get a really good lawyer, or is it a public defender and how does it? What's there sort of defense tell us a little bit about the at least the beginning of the trial. You're asking me that or you want to yes, no Robert yeah. Ok, he hired an attorney. They had the means they an attorney from our area here that represent him and the beginning. The trial been last too long. Robert. Play from the FBI. It was who I was goodbye with our trial, assisted us, and I had gone to behavioral science to show in this case file and they were assisting us on the case, and with trial first started. He had his attorney and our disk attorney norm. Wolfinger handle the case and the first couple hours of the case and they came. You came uh
deeply play John, the to plead guilty and he was sentenced to twenty five years in prison and he got out in ten years with good behavior yeah, I could, if I really kinda it can add on there yeah the kind of the reason- four. Why gradually decided to plead guilty? He was. He was confronted with the evidence that the US, the gator said, had put together on him. There is a number of bodies that have been to go. Full remains that had been recovered and in the Brevard County area, and he was confronted with with evidence the these crimes, and also the the the case with Christina all obviously, and he decided that
We might be in jeopardy, and so he wanted to avoid ac. A definite, so he wanted to plead guilty to try to avoid
Some of those other crimes being further investigated, further developed in further links to him. So I think that's a big reason why you decided to to plead guilty in that Christine on the case. What I found fascinating about the book to GT is: is that and and Robert let the rows. Involvement with Robert K, wrestler, the famous property wrestler that wrestler had a really strategies, really did work hand in hand with him to to come up with a strategy, and so tell us a little bit about the the bones in a box and the and the names on the the the man at the cabinet and the whole thing with the the low lighting that was staged. If you like Robert WAR G see. Could you tell us about that scenario that was advised by wrestler and what did he suggest and tell us a little bit about that scene? Popular? Do you want you want me
Ok I'll, go my best shot. As I said, I had gone through the FBI, National Academy and Rob rest was hey. This one of our instructors at the class and and over to him himself became very involved the sand. When we got Under the case, in our training there was, we talked about interview suspects and when they case came up and when Robert Ressler came down through justice on the case did that we? But I've done this. Other murder cases. We bring him into a very nondescript room file, cabinets with the names of the victims on it, boxes with the crime scene, bones in them and uh I wasn't there. I was in Quantico at the time when this came on. We brought him over the other just brought him over from the jail
to the homicide, office and using with the low lighting you get them in a room like that they get very, very nervous when I see it well, the fight will be in information sitting there and the as JT said the want to avoid the death penalty, which they all do and he got real nervous and he would even go into the room. He starts screaming yelling that the room evil and he didn't want to be in there whatsoever and they had to take him back, but that was part of the training. I've done another murder cases, we bring people into nondescript room and sit there, and file, cabinets in maps and pin maps were the bodies or and it it works. I hope that answers your question, sir. Yes, it was, it is in the book, it's it's and I'm from the information you've given is that is
The trail of that scene and what it does to crutchley and and and and wrestler coming in and saying, listen why? I think we should do it and do it this way and say these things to him. So it's brilliant and it's and mazing that the access that you have give us this unique window to be able to see this. Now, maybe you can tell us Robert to and then I thought this was the most disappointing situation in this entire book: the ability to find out information about love ones that were other victims that were killed.
Tell us about what happened to this potential police agreement that even his lawyer, Joe Mitchell. The question is where Joe Mitchell was trying to facilitate, on behalf apparently, according to him offer John Crutchley to be able to make the twelve murders tell us about this plea agreement. What what happened to kibosh this thing? Well, sir, it's a very touchy question wow, If I answer it, the probably won't go over right JT. You want to handle that, please sure yeah. Then what had happened with that is there was. There was an schedule in charge of the homicide unit there, and he was. He had a certain way. He likes you handle cases and he
wasn't big on the green deals in the sort of circumstances, and he decided He would rather have his men. Have his detectives worked. The case work the case up, find the evidence themselves and then be able to go after Crutchley. However, they wanted to, you, know, give them in the the forks into the log ring the full extent of what appear on them. If you will, and so it was, this individual decided that they would not deal with him that they would not accept any sort of plea and he voice that strong, only to the state attorney and it was decided that they would not enter into this deal,
with Crutchley, even though he was willing to give up a large number of his victims, including leading investigators to the burial, right, which would have provided a lot of closure for a lot of the families of the victims. But it was decided at the time that that was not the way to go, that they would build up a case on their own, and that was the decision that was made and whether it was the right decision or not hindsight. You know you can play money money. Monday morning, quarterback of course, but it certainly if the deal had
made. There would have been a lot more, a lot more closure for a lot more people, Robert in cases like this often well. Maybe I is it is it often prosecutors will go to the city to some of this, the family and or or or consult some victims on this kind of agreement being done or not done. Yes, that happens a lot. Don't forget I'm trying to avoid something here, Dan, The whole thing was was a real hot thing right then, and there and a lot of the people of the supervisors it very hot item right now in our county. Here we uncovered about four bodies. Prior to MR questions, arrest, scale, the remains in a wooded area. So this was pretty hot in our press here, the
news media was on it. We'll have you not heavy heavy and things were just handle wrong, I'm trying to avoid tell you just how I feel sure I get what you say. I get what you're saying. No no problem I understand now what's interesting too, is that I I come from. Super liberal Canada, where nobody does life sentence in there is no. Each thing in reality, but a twenty five year sentence other really get down to ten years and and realizing that he gets the ten he he's out in ten years. It's very interesting to see the concerted effort to try to keep them in prison and a sense of, and that's of a very important part of this story to tell us how on earth you can get some twenty five years to ten years without a parole. Is that how that works,
back. Then our laws were a lot differently back in eighty five compared to what they are now and yeah. He live. Over ten years that he got there. Just don't know how that'll work. I was taken back on it, but it for the best, I guess was meant to be he As you know, in the book very come out, he was out one day and you failed the urine test for smoking marijuana. He admitted to it And we went back to court on that. He went back to prison. I hope your question sure JT
elaborate on that, because this is a fascinating incredible and I mean really movie. Ask tell us about this. He's going to get parole and see were skimming over a fair amount of this to John Crutchley is what kind of criminal are part of me. What kind of inmate in prison he's going to get his released after ten years and then will again JT I'll get you to give us the evidence of the Fellow inmates that testify at and so those will that's fascinating, parole, violation or a parole, breach, approve a preacher, parole hearing, but first tell us about a little bit about John Crutchley in prison for that ten years, Well, he was a close to a model in he didn't get into a lot of trouble in prison had very few instances.
Of any sort of administrative punishment, He was use days again in May. He was put in charge of some of the programs in the prisons there for the other inmates, and he he help with the the computer systems. Is you might imagine based on his background there in the in the prisons, and so he had a he had a the you know, if close to an exemplary record in prison, I guess you could say and he did, he came up for. His parole earned a lot of game time, name, the laws, backers and in at that time were were struck. Shard to enable that to happen frankly, because the prisons are overcrowded, so the system needed to be able to. Make room for other prisoners that need to be there
online. So he gained a lot. He got a lot of game time which reduced his sentence significantly and was able to get out and in about ten years time, instead of the twenty five that he was sentenced to, and he did come up for his his release and the night before his release and keep in mind. This is uh he's had a very good history in the prison there. The night before his release, somehow or another he ends up being exposed to, to marijuana smoke. Whether it was of all SIRI or involuntary exposure. It's a little bit murky, but he did end up ingesting this marijuana smoke and tested for it after being released He was taken to a facility in
Orlando area and is, as Bob mentioned, he was given the standard test. There and it showed up, and so it was. It was discovered that he had just Justin this marijuana, and he was promptly. Did for violating the terms of his parole, based on that and it was a very interesting circumstances, as you alluded to there, because of so much pressure. The the fact that he was coming up that the dreaded vampire was Coming up for release from prison, it made a lot of people in communities in Florida up in arms. There was a a big uproar about it and there was a lot of pressure brought to bear. The form of media coverage and in the form of. Political pressure to do something about that
nobody wanted him to be released In their area, nobody wanted him in their community and lo and behold, he he he via lights the terms of his probation, even though he certainly had to know that he was about to be set free. So you would think you would be on pretty good behavior there, but but yeah he did. He did get get this vial. In a probation charge and that in the put him back in prison for life, so he went from being. He went from. Free man for a day to be back in prison for life. I gotta to say that it it's like anybody that reads: it's just got to shake their head versus twenty five. It turns into ten he he's. It's amazing that even got twenty five, because the sentencing guidelines were about eighteen, so thank God, he got twenty five, otherwise have been out and about six.
And then nobody wants some and but here's the thing he really does have a hearing that he provides some evidence. He gets a lawyer's mom. It's this great lawyer and he's got a pretty good cases, got witnesses not to do that credible, but he really has a story. That's credible, but in the end, just like they when they took that sentencing guidelines that none now this guy would kill this woman. And so I applaud them that they, you know they weren't constrained by that so much and they call it the way. It really was this guys, a a unique villainous creature. So that little bit of marijuana. It was interesting at this hearing that he has the witness say: oh yeah, he was a non smoker. He had probably lung problems or something, but he was placed into this smoking cell and then these big black guys came into his
on Bluetooth, marijuana smoke into his lungs and they go well too bad too bad. Given the rest of your life in prison,. There. You go that's now, that's a little bit of a happy ending if nothing else. Yeah it's. It worked out for the best there alternately, but yeah. It was interesting because he had been for most of his confinement. He had been in a you know: a non smoking building, essentially, But uh shortly before his release date came up. He was. Put in this building where it was notorious for being a smoking. Smoking area, where a lot of the inmates who did marijuana and other drugs were were house there, but he was that the timing of it was. It was interesting to say the least, yeah. Just just another, truly astonishing aspect of this story. If you think you can cut out of this book early yet
away there's stuff going on every every single page is amazing. The photos are incredible, and just the axis information thanks to people like Robert Weather out, we have this incredible incredible story, Robert. What was the tell us about the demise of John Crutchley and any? What happened to John Crow Actually, when did when did that happen? Well, he, as you said he his demise, was in prison. He was found in a very stranger procedure, autoerotic death, doing what that is. There sure sure the bag. Yes, very good, your bag over said in some other little things in the he
is a pleasure himself and his fail safe system very unusual for his age. At that time it was fighting forty, nine or almost fifty. I want to write a happens with the younger males in the teenage years, but the he died from water, erotic, death. Unusual. Sing a fitting ending it. I would think It was another aspect that I really thought was very fascinated to Robert is is the is the idea of how much you employed jailhouse snitches, to try to gain information and how forthcoming these guys? Some of these guys were for you. So if you tell us of this a little bit about your involvement in in in any of that and and your thoughts
Well will, when John was in you know in our joint at the time. Correct me if start getting carried away here now John was a bisexual and he became Bria familiar with a lot of the different guys were in prison with him in jail with him and interviewing all them Waltham, a lot of time to interview them and learn about John quickly and what he was planning and at one point It is when the inmates to go down and take care of his wife. She for he fell in love with somebody else, and he and one of his inmate friends to go down and take care of his wife and raise his child for him. I don't know you bread that part in the book. I assume you did yeah
Cnn and more and what one one one of them captured until we came very close to Critchley all use in the jail there and and done tell kept a very detailed diary during his time in the and there's a there's. A lot of very interesting entries in their Witcher sided cited pretty extensively in the and revealed a lot of a lot of information. There really mixture, your your hair stand up on the back of your neck. When you read it absolutely they did they would. He did have a one once a credibility, but a lot of the stuff could be proven truthful anyway, in terms of the information that he did provide Don't tell right yeah he
was, he was all lined up to testify, but he skipped town and they they they were able to get into actually testify at trial, again scratch the because a lot of his this money would been very, very damning and, and he he ended up dying, not too long after that. So is this. Testimony is lost forever, but fortunately he kept this very detailed diary, which which I was able to access with Bob's help and, as I said, there's a lot of very, very interesting information about crutches background and the the things he had been doing before he ever even moved to Florida, he'd only been in Florida a couple years before he was arrested, but he had been. He had a history of of these
these. These encounters go. All the way back to his college days and, of course, the Virginia them that he was so closely tied to UW fits John, whose story is covered in extensively in the book. Thanks to the information Bob got from Fred Pfeiffer, the search server x, county police department, as well as as a lot of information that I got speaking directly with the private investigator that maybe fits Johns family had hired to look into her disappearance? James wilt, he was very accommodating, gave me access to all of his materials that he had on the case and talk to me extensively about his investigation as well. Now rob
Set with the police- it's it's always I mean if you don't have to have all the evidence, but they speculated that he had killed in in other places other than Florida. What was the really reasonable tally on how many victims he likely had and and how many states he had killed in and finally, you know just tell us really what they thought he had done with those victims in terms of disposal. I guess well, my figures come up that heat one Virginia that we can put to him. As I told you earlier, Ann and I believe I had four or five year and in Florida I believe he did six, that I can put to him and not assume something but as you're well aware of, but we never got close enough computer? We never really got into a computer.
We made a mistake and apprehending or that a branding taking in evidence computer, the night of the arrest. That would have been a real plus for us, and I believe it the skeletal remains of just prior the John's arrest about a year or two we started meaning skelter remains down here in Florida. In a general vicinity to buy the Harris Corporation, another plant that do we have What the US one! We found a couple skeletal remains out there and next kind of coincided, as I see it with Virginia Debbie. This John skill to remain was found about a year later out in the dirt bike path by power lines, In our skeletal remains down here, we're basically found in water the power lines, dirt bike paths where motorcyclists would through, but everybody was so skeletal remains, and I my
sleep is it John. I could put him to six, possibly yeah. Bob Bob is talking about directly haven't, haven't clear evidence to to bring it on this against them news at the time that Critchley was willing to plea. This plea deal that he offered he was. He was willing to plead at twelve. He was gonna, he was gonna, give up twelve of the victims and that that was to discuss. Tions with one of the one of the members of the department or the sheriff's office, and through is his attorney there and in Brevard County. He was willing to give up twelve
For the victims- and it's believed really by a lot of the people involved- that he has- he had a the history of victims account of victims. That would go into the dozens, but of course they could never hi him definitively to any of those. A lot of that was just you know, a reasonable surmising, based on his where his whereabouts and victim people that had gone missing different places. He had been during those time periods and that sort of thing, Robert, how frustrating I can almost feel the frustration kind of vague,
looting from you in this that you were just there's so much circumstantial evidence without being able to actually actually charging for some. These were like the the little motorcycle. He drives a motorcycle in there along long these telephone lines, and I mean it's just great detective work. Great police work, how frustrated where you with this case, I'm I'm sure you is not the only time you ever been frustrated, but how was frustration. The big thing, in this case Yes, definitely is Stephanie right now talking with you, I, it kind of wound up about it and it really bothers me. I put six eight years of my life into this case and we three time we investigated three times the original thing did that for almost a year together and then back in eighty eight, we we
did the whole case over and then in ninety four. I think it was a ninety five. We did the case over again and you get so close, but yet so far and you could tell by my voice, so I get kind of worked up on a. I was almost there. I want to see him in the electric chair, that's where I want it, and I was back. We had electric chair back in Florida, then sure. Stuff, I could see myself getting wound up just talking you tonight about it. What was it like to give you a little bit of relief? What was it like to to to hear that he had spit, because obviously, there's there's got to be this and incredible experience where this clown is released after ten years, and you can't do anything about it, and people are trying like yourself to do something about that. Just they can't do anything about it and then the news that he's back
in on a violation. What was that like huh an overwhelming at first he went to uh. He got out. He went down to the halfway house there in Orlando. I went to city, council meeting in Malabar. The people are open. Arms. He was going to have to come back into their community. And I went there and apologize to the people there in the tv stations. I felt I failed my job not putting prison forever or at the electric chair? I was very upset with that in the next day, when we the notification that he had failed. The two
over here and we are bringing back aboard, was like a a birthday present. My family yeah, but Bob was Bob, was harden himself in relation to the case I mean he'd he'd become close to the the family of of one of the victims, had even Lansky there and subscribe in the book little bit the relationship that he had he and he had promised. The family that he would. He would find Patty Volansky's body for them to get them some sort of closure, but unfortunately was never able to do that, and you know it's something I think that's still still eat that I'm a little bit Yes, it does. I just talked to a Vaskey's mother, just let week. She called me about the book and I had thought that Alta Prod had passed away. She
hospice with cancer right now and transit of on that day in that you're also proud on the phone trying to walk me, I failed well, I think the system fails, you know it is. You know it does fail. I mean that the person that did everybody can see in in these true crime books when it's- and it is in many cases like this, where it's a dedicated cop. It's the the take the case home that have to go. Look at a.
Crime scene. I I can't even I was involved in a case, but I can't even I can't even fathom having the see a crime scene and then having to try to raise that out of your mind, let alone see that have to see these characters face to face and then have to pretend that you're not just totally disgusted by these creatures and then have to talk to the families at first and then later I mean a different kind of grief, additional grief and then later grief and lasting grief. And then so I think that's what everybody find so fascinating about this, that we get the experience of the detective. But as we're hearing, our audience is getting the the privilege of hearing how affected you still are from this case and, and you were no novice, fifty murders under your belt on the site
this is so, and this is testament to this this book. I I read a lot of books. I would cover a lot of books and this is again taking story telling up another level with having the great work that you did Bob and having that access and then convey that to GT, and it's it's captured in this book. It's an amazing amazing story, so I applaud both you, gentlemen, for this great work, and I want to thank you very which I also want you as go ahead. I just wanna say thank you. I was. Apprehensive about doing this tonight? We with you you the money, Dan right and certainly I'm very very pleased talk
What about it? I I enjoyed talking with you. Thank you for understanding. Well, thank you very much and and and for sharing, and thank you g T also want to mention before we go. That audible is brought. This find episode to our audience this evening and right now, it's all it having a thirty day free trial, digital audio books, they are the knee, came in the world of digital audio books, audible, for example, a helter skelter Vincent Boo, Lugosi and curt gentry. The number one true crime book in history: seven million copies narrated by the you know the fabulous Scott Brick And this is the true story of the Manson murders, and this is on audio book, and I don't know if, if people have experience,
digital audio books, but they're even more Vineet now there are more reasonably priced and nothing, I think, can equal the written word. The book, the paperback, the hardcover, but if you haven't experienced digital audio books from audible, it is a unique experience. It really is much different being able to listen on a mobile device or at your own convenience in your home, or wherever to listen to a great narrator narrating, a great book like helter skelter or in cold blood, Truman, Capote again, the great narrator Scott Brick Narrating. That book the audible has over seven hundred true crime titles.
And thousands of non fiction, audio book titles as well again, narrated by the finest narrators, a very, very unique experience. Another one of the books that that's very interesting to is the Damien Echols book. He was with the West Memphis three wrongfully convicted of killing three young boys. It's called life after death by Damien Echols, and he spent eighteen years on death row, falsely accused of murdering three boys. Friends were eventually exonerated in twenty eleven and the book really talks about his journey from right from the
accusation of murder to his eventual release from prison, the book is a few years old. It's incredible that the reviews that you have on the site- and the great thing is about it- is that Damien Echols narrates this book so right now at audible, podcast, dot, com, slash, true murder, that's audible, podcast, dot, com, true murder, go to audible and experience digital audio books like help there's shelter in cold blood and life after death and or any that? You choose and really experienced digital audio books, again, gentlemen. I want to thank you very much for coming on the program tonight and talking about the vampire next door. Thank you very much, Robert Leather, the and are Are you retired now, Roberts from volume? This work
yeah now, seven years, seventy seven but it doesn't matter nor family. My son my brother roll cops. My son is a police officer right now operate Thank you GT for those that would like to contact. You get a little bit more information about the book a few of our our interest in being contacted by Facebook. How do people go about contacting if they're more, if you're interested in learning a little bit more we're reaching you? personally. Well, I am on Facebook Jt Hunter. You can find my and my my my page on Facebook, and there's also a page under the vampire next door. The true story of rape, So either way the. Also email me if they like to email me directly. My my email is J T under eight one, four edgy mail dot com
and I would welcome hearing from anyone well, again. Thank you very much, gentlemen for a fantastic interview and a great book JT and hope to talk to you both again sometime soon. Thank you very much goodnight thanks a lot of the other. Thank you my pleasure, but I figure connect. When you drive uber what moves you moves us, that's why we provide drivers with the option to sign up for instant pay, so you the power to decide when an where you cash out. What moves me is my niece back home. I always try to send her something I know she'll love, that's what moves me uber What moves you moves us get started with instant pay when you sign up to drive with us at uber dot com, slash drive, is driving with uber may vary. Drivers were signed up with instant bacon cash out up to five times a day terms, apply
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-05.