« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers

True Murder-Episode 7-Moira Martingale-Cannibal Killers

2010-02-24 | 🔗
These are no ordinary killers. They are monsters who murder, mutilate and carry out the most gruesome, unimaginable act of all....eating the flesh of their victims. CANNIBAL KILLERS - Includes the world's most evil psychopaths JEFFREY DAHMER. ED GEIN AND ANDREI CHIKATILO. A chilling look at history's most repugnant criminals. CANNIBAL KILLERS is a horrifying story too shocking to believe-except that it's true! CANNIBAL KILLERS-Moira Martingale
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about him: Gacy Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker Gaiety K every week. Another fascinating offer talking about the most shocking, an infamous killer, who crime history through murder, with your host journalist and other Dan asking. Hello, this is your host as a capacity for the program, true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the there's that have written about them. My special yesterday is a more Martin Gale. She has written
I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah lisbie, be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but but far less appealing blood fish come on. To add insult to injury, you could have used those fifteen blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance book called cap more killers. These are no ordinary killers, their money, those who murder mutilate and carry out the most gruesome imagine will act of all in the flesh of their victims. Cannibal killers includes the world's most either psychopath Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Gein, Andrei Chick, a kilo with eight pages of hair photograph. More am and Gill,
I'm not sure if we have a connection with more a Martin Gale as of yet I think we may have a problem, but let's see if we have more Martin Gale hello, Maura. Anyway, we may have a problem: miscommunication Maura is in great Britain, and I've changed the time on my programme from eight a m. Eight p m and eat to nine am m to accommodate this interview, but there may have been some communication, exactly what who she was supposed to call at that time. So until she does get my email and the number, I will go through her book for her until we get her on the line. Anyway, the book is called cannibal killers and more Martin. Gale is the author, and this book came out.
One thousand nine hundred and ninety three first in great Britain, and then I was going to ask you the question about the further publishing, but the copy I have is Saint Martins Press. So that's it's distributor in America anyway, Facebook has been a best seller for years. I've seen it on the shelves for many years. I wouldn't say that's odd, and then I teach, but I seen it for many years and incredible book it does. The publisher is trying to get people interested in the book by discussing the world's most evil, psychopaths Jeffrey Dahmer, again and Andrea Chicken Pillow and budgets discusses other cases in and with her, background in clinical psychology. Let me actually get her background for you here.
She is particularly interested abnormal in and clinical psychology and when she did her psychology when she actually did her psychology degree. She also had an interest in gothic literature and did a fair amount of research. The interest in evolutionary psychology and anthropology and all these things came together to be able to have her put assemble. This incredible book call camel killers. Let's see if we have run here right now, huh Maura either. How are you I'm fine? Thank you well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for agreeing to our interview today. What I did in the interim while we got you connected, was to have me produced the book a little bit. So I will thank you very much for four greener interview and welcome to the programme
and uh we're going to be talking about. Cannibal killers are incredible book now, whatever just going through just a little bit for our audience was your background that enables you to be able to write this incredible book, the perspective, you chose was quite different from many well almost the true cried box it I have read of Thou Chandra. Let me
I ask you: what is your educational background that enables you to write this book and why were you interested in writing this book? What issues did you want to explore? Well, educational background: I did a degree in psychology and degree degree in psychology and English actually my first degree, and I did not a lot in the psychology part with abnormal and clinical psychology. Then I went on to do a master's degree in English and ideas off locks on gothic, literature, calculus and 19th century. You got it listed here and then I went on to do a Phd in gothic literature. So I suppose the literature aspects which option also overlaps on evolution,
psychology and anthropological interests. Suppose I would, I would call it it's about conserving expert anthropology, but I suppose it is all those things that came together because the literary parts of writing that jocular and various other vampire novels. You have an awful lot of the bloodlust aspects of sexual aspects of book circular and, if anyone's ever any unranked those sources, the sexuality that's attached to blood drinking, which has its roots in lots of other things like religion and so on and our own primitive past. So
there's all kinds of things that drove me and I suppose the first question is that when the the issue of Jeffrey Dahmer and and Thilo in Russia, they will. This all happens about center in silence of the lambs came out and because I did a lot of research and because the silence of the lambs seem to be creating such a lot of shock, I thought people what people are saying is worth possesses anyone to do something like this to kind of lies somebody else's body, and I suppose I set out to answer that question in more than research way than just writing a sort of verbal mystery version of the slasher movie. I didn't really want it just to be like that. I wanted it to actually have
some sense for research behind it. So that's I tried to do whether it was successful or not. Is is debatable, of course, now for these specific research done for the book? How long did it take, and maybe you can tell our audience three research sound of some of the history of cannibalism? Can you give us a little bit of that? Well, the publicly even we talk about cannibalism, you have different aspects of it. You have the aspect of people who used to it the time for us to see that the council is very much and that is in our own history, and you do get institutes like these only being case in Scotland. I can now move it fifteenth century I hope it does. The cave and apparently just as people wake up the people who run the road and that the mother remove any sexual tobacco. That time. I think it was purely
expedient if you like, because they were hungry and they'd rather they'd starts out over ten years they were hungry, but that that was what they did. They didn't do it. The whole family didn't eat other people. For so this is reasons why we were seeing all sadistic killer. Caesar is doing it, they would just prejudice and they disregarded any pray, whether they have four legs, two is being sad game and they killed. I think it was something like four thousand and fifty p. Lastly, consumed is also cases like the instances in the Andes where people's plane crashed, and that was in nineteen. Seventy, I think, and they had nothing else to eat and they turn to cannibalism to stay alive, and I mean I think we see this sort of great fear, that herbal fear that everybody has their psyches of being eaten. You see that in
but the road and books like the roads are nothing which I don't know any of your little theme. But life breaks down. Society breaks, and there are then crowded color balls that have to be avoided and- and it's the full horror of that, so that there's that aspect is incredible, with all the mythical tribal Billy Systems, which are generally habit to religion and religious direct, is much much less about vision for everything, many anything from tribal belief, systems to modern villages which lasted for censure. You were a lotta gluttony cities as well
say I had requested order of yes, yes, you ve covered quite a bit of it. I was surprised, though, to read: you like you do to make the point there that, regardless of whether the primitive primal, a proper part me a perimeter, society will say or whether it is a modern society that that hasn't it religion, there's still have these aspects of bloodletting and cannibalism in some of these things that are all intertwined, as you say, but I was surprised to read about eight in China's history regarding cannibalism. Maybe get them just a little bit about that. I thought that was very. That is really quite shocking. Isn't it that passed out? I opened the book with that, but actually it wasn't that many centuries ago that, yes, they used to hurt you slave girls aspect. It was basically kind of little all these other sadistic murders is basically using people as objects and the people have.
He is powerless and ended with slavery and our whole history, in that particular case, that, with the exception flight girls, who were very and maybe things that people do that I'll quit the welcome We want the people and the king of death would subsidies. The amount of water, the silver never been, eating them soon, because then they would say that goes away and they would they would kill them and eat them. Just like you know, he's going to restaurants and the salmon in in a in a tank and say well, actually I'd like to have that one or lobster or crab. It was the same principle at work just like as an incredible demonstration of parallel Ann I'll, get my miscarried apple families.
This carried on for about three hundred years. According to your book, it I'm talking about the most recent date when it was actually still in. Fourth, I think it was probably with for me about food. Sixteen thousand one hundred and seventeen hundred when this is still going. In certain places in the world, by two thousand and eight in but Philip. I don't think it must have been very ancient China when it was going on. I'm sorry, I think, Dates in mind, but I know it was comparatively recently quite shockingly recently really if we look back on history, we're not just talking neanderthal here. No, no, it's interesting incredible now we need to before we go into exploration of some of these worse, the evil psychopath. As your book up reports to have included in the book, we need to discuss just a few things.
Well, I think we need to discuss why this seemingly alien behavior, this terrain, jacked uh of eating another human- is not classified his insanity and maybe when we can, maybe we can do so with that. We will talk about the cycle pathology about the psychopathic killer as well just to prepare people so that we have a basis to understand what we're talking about here right well talking about. Seventy is very interesting because, of course, we would also somebody who did something like this, especially in stating that there seem human could do the sort of things that we witnessed. These people doing. But I suppose the legal sense, what do looking for people who actually are able to plan that? Maybe they say that so the killer, organise and non social pillar. They plan They behave in a normal way from the crime vary in the very deep
that way. They don't actually kill anybody. I think they might get caught, so they they go equipped and they make detail powers such as, for instance, Jeffrey Dahmer, when he was going out to gay clubs to try and pick up young men to bring home to constitute dragon tail and eat and have sex with, he would prepare his room in advance. Then we move all the furniture. There is plenty of room and he would set the video so that he had assumed to show them wrong. He gave him a drink with drugs him, have it all extremely organized, quite openly so to criminal criminals. People kill somebody told the body away, and I do not the might even somewhere later on, it will be found. The two men now follow the case with great excitement, because they get up on the fact that the peace them everything they do and then you have the disorganized,
a social killer who they are more to be seen as sort of send less outsider, characters who alone as many wish them a lot of, although MRS Guillaume isn't exactly fall completely black and white terms here, but but by letter in a controlled way. They don't have the same method. They don't take much care. They usually get found quickly because they aren't careful fellow like to kill somebody, then at the end of the party and just escape, because they haven't actually thought it through. So they are considered to be disorganized and social. So I said I guess that those sorts of killers who do axina famously without preparation are considered and in some of the verdict, is more likely to be considered for them. Perhaps then they organized killer, because what we're looking at is the legal legal if you're looking at it
later the person without to be mind when he committed the crime, not really what they did afterwards with the body, but basically whether they were insane and in the grip of some sort of crazed disorganized when they did it. The killers that we've looked at as I looked at in the book were not they were very methodical, but that's why they managed to escape for so long. I suppose the least methodical of all of them was Richard Chase from Sacramento who he was known as the vampire killer.
He bought a gun and he practiced and very rarely do sadistic killers use guns, but but he wanted blood and he did not take the first of yeah. I suppose that fill a deer this it makes its own plane taking care, makes, unlike other positive attributes, obviously ignored and but that he did actively more crazed way. But the sum of the argument, latin history, what were they that is essentially the duck? Essentially it did, they know what they were doing did they know the difference between right and wrong when they actually committed the crime right now you were talking about Jeffrey Dahmer and he's a great case, and that's why you likely Inclu, put it in your book, because there is quite a bit to discuss them quite a bit to see with his particular case now.
Jeffrey Dahmer is fairly well known, and I remember seeing the movie silence of the lambs and finding incredible and then a few months later in Milwaukee Jeff Redeemer Dahmer, real life, cannibal Killer was arrested and his crimes were mostly people no more horrifying than any fictional book or movie could ever be now the sheep to be a fair amount of psychiatric study of Dahmer having the cooperation from his family and even himself helped authorities collect valuable information about him. Especially guards was upbringing and its effect on him and is about virtual progression, the serial killer later, and he was when we talk of organizing disorganized. They do classify classified as being mixed a trial. There really was an issue of where he was an insane where at least insane at some point, can you talk a little bit about Dahmer? You found interesting about some of the stuff that was done after the fact, given that
Palmer was willing to talk and not a tribute some of his behavior. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. I haven't been further well before here's the thing this is Jeffrey Dahmer that his father was interviewed and Jeffrey Dahmer was interviewed and Dahmer was very adamant to say that, and it was evident as well that there was no much of the typical. An invitation, reputation up and therefore, in terms of his background, in terms of his eventual progression to serial killer, he would- fit a profile because, though, across the EU to look at the background of these difficulties, and you can usually find a very troubled childhood difficulties with parental arguments. Roused violence,
neglect, I'm the wasn't ready the Dama he he had a very happy childhood really intended what his family of the family will offer. Violent when I was searching for a third of the breed, Who is the white Turner? You heard there's sort of reasons if I was heavy one, quite alone, the very jealous one year, the birth of a poor man. That's what happened but the place, and the devil appended to tell us what he was doing right: finding roadkill victims, animals on the road and pick him up when it is a very small boy, one of the meeting to be actually stimulate cutting of animals in biology, which again, is it so extreme,
but nobody would really think that they could identify with that and one of the other day of the psychological requirements of Thursday. Then people would find to say this would be like someone from their possible the possible passes. Murder. Is it not necessarily at close maternal relationship, but there a relationship with somebody, the person who makes a difference who could actually save them? If you like by having a close relationship? Well, I think Jeffrey Dahmer was pretty well adored by his grandmother, and his parents were were not bad parents is better courses, but so there were no no real
when the real reasons that he could actually put your finger on other than something in the genetic makeup somewhere that some wires that have got crossed somewhere in this child, because there's so many there were so many possible thought. Someone said it was because he was gay. It's a lot. Someone said one of the psychological reports is, he was gay, but he really hated his own homosexuality, and so therefore he would project that onto his victims and and that's why that's why he did this,
but I mean that that's, that's also wasn't really a taste for cannibalism. That was the reason why he hated with interpret wanted to kill other gay people. But then you say full stops really the rest of it very trying to drill holes in the head from tournament is on bees, removing the flashing saving the skeletons and hanging skeletons in the shower to take photographs of them and keeping heads instituting performing sex acts on them, and this is also but the Absolute's father excuses extreme behavior. That looking could be an explanation that doesn't seem to be any real exploration with Dwyer he became it was that you could find in in other murders. Does I looked at at least what is surprising to when you first read of the motivation for some of these,
your killers and some of the outrageous acts that they do, the obvious overkill. The mutilation posing a victims, all sorts of characteristics and signature of some of these serial killers. Did you find in your research that the actual added whore of cannibalism as a feature of some of these serial killers, was that also involved with the sex act as well.
With sexual to these people, yes, if you are ultimate active power, isn't it the absorption of that person and computer description of that person wanting to make them part of themselves and be powerful, sadistic, stopping the mutilation and and so on? So there isn't necessarily a sex act as we would interpret except attached to that. I'm probably repeating things that you already know here, but the actual friendly is stabbing and loose rating is the sexual gratification and the seller may have it all got them doing that without actually having what we would consider to be normal facts. So if you, if you're looking at this sort of behaviour biting and the biking acts, which of course is is very much tide up with sexuality
in in psychotic sadistic little mental patients, you would find that quite commonly. I think it will just hide it together. So, yes, it would be sexually the answer right, so I rambled on a bit there. No, no! You didn't! I don't know it's now. We've talked CALL Jeffrey Dahmer and you have included just we're going to talk about some of the main people that you have featured in your book, and you can tell us why that you felt it necessary to include the man what you learned from their particular case when you do it back to giving you any insight. Obviously, some of these killers at, as is one of the killers to be talking about an Edmund Kemper and they couldn't be coming from completely different backgrounds. More so so
maybe we could start off with Ed Gein, and briefly tell us who had gain is what he was accused of. I think some people do know him. A lot of people, don't know that he engagement cannibalism. They know him from other reports that they have some information that they've gathered tell us about it gain well. He is probably most famous because he was the inspiration for several films, like psycho and the and in silence of the lambs that I think the characters and Buffalo bill was based on on again, because what he, what he ultimately did, he would he would. He started necrophilia that would go to graze and and get their bodies to do what you want to do, but also- and
I am willing to do it with him- in the wild and playing- is content with his mother, who was a very dominating woman and his brother. It is not about died. Only down a very lonely strange we're looking the command with with pain, the eyes in them, but he was very keen on hunting, but he had this destroys, but he openly and
digging up bodies and grades, and then he would take their skins and their genitals and he would fashion them into suits to wear and he would dress as a woman until he would hang the bodies up and as if they were deer and dismember them and use the skin to make chairs and sports tools and also a suit of clothes himself. So the theory was one of the theories and he was so totally dominated by his mother, but he was he felt, he's like her when he let me just like that, because I mean in normal translate start, isn't normal heart, double that people with goodwill who did not read that it
cause they like to look like a woman, then they want to be taken with a woman, but he put did all this in secrecy because he used you use parts of bodies. So the you thought that you say: ok with a complex died. I just wanted to be a woman. There is obviously the greatest signifier and he was caught when he
that would daily everybody went out hunting and with home and he went to the local village store and- and he just killed the woman. Who is there? Who is middle age woman and took about home and did all the things that he did to all his actions and cannibalizing? Yes, they found they found. They found pot system, the flesh in their house, dissected bodies and eat the hearts. It keeps the heads and the sex organs, particularly the flesh and the liver and parts, and then he'd make decorations through budget sorted house from all the other body parts they made it downtown in and put up nipples so use the bones to make a table when so. Yes, he did he's got one. Psychology is a school of token. Before I mean it's again, sort of it's too extreme
to even imagine that you can have why somebody like Norman, Bates and Psycho was based on ongoing with tee I salute the mother. I don't lose any suggestion that aquaculture tiny convene a fire. I looked it. The german name- and I put it down, but am. Yeah, I don't think there's any other this is he felt he's being given messages by his mother to do this right, but that's obviously was what Hitchcock talks when he made the film psycho. Is it that you seem normal bases being directed by his mother and controlled by his mother? Now we have a just a couple more cases briefly to talk.
Both- and we want to talk about her you're. One of the most bizarre cases is obviously this. I fear cycle LA from Japan. Ok, you see a cigar, I got it. Thank you but Let's talk about just briefly this, and this is one of the most horrible cases. Is this Andrea, Chika Tilo? Just briefly tell us, I didn't know about this killer at all, and what's interesting, is that it's just a few months after the world here call Jeffrey Dahmer in his chamber of horrors, another even more. If there can be someone at ops, the level of evil, it's this guy. So please tell us a little bit about this guy yeah, so he's Russia's worst serial killer.
We like it very mean in the whole world with he. I think he claims with killed about sixty people, but actually was only charged with fifty three murders. He it was gone in a period in russian history when there was great poverty and come in and he told a story, he claimed that he was driven to this day already became on it because when he was a child, his mother had told him, but he covered over the brother who had one begun: varnishes on walking in the forest and had vanished because he's been taken away and even eaten like in a fairy story. So it's like all parents tell their children, don't go off with strange men, because these terrible things that happened there telling stories of Hansel and Gretel in six years case he claimed. This is the thing that actually started him off, because he couldn't stop thinking about his little brother who's. Taking eaten. There's no-
and I suppose you could think mother might tell some story about what would happen to look at boys ago. It's often advised, but he was obviously disturbed child. He had a very sort of tool and gamely sort of boy, and he had he had a problem with bed wetting to quote the old age and cause he was killed at some other this and he grew up with intelligent, intelligent personally went to do a degree and and became an english teacher uh and he got married and his wife phone that he was a very doting husband, except they did have a lot of sexual problems because he was instantly had a problem with instance, which is always had some teenagers which again helped make him feel like an outsider. But
toward a marriage with the teacher was happy but pay them started to children and the little girl and and friends. He killed her and with a nice and Victor Pass, enjoy the blood and and x in drunk and discovered that this was a thing, but that made him Kentucky side, but we haven't been sexually satisfied in any other area. So having found maps, he then went on to kill more and more people as a great some brief level commit more and more atrocities on their bodies when you kill them, wasn't really, particularly first, whether they were male female. I don't suppose any
we're going to adult males, because I suppose they would be able to fight that more more readily right, but he just escalates his desires because of all these fantasies that these, such as men have the reality is never as good as a fantasy. So they have to keep nothing nothing extreme they go to in order to try and achieve the same level of satisfaction, which is. Why did the crimes of one person get more and more restaurant sadistic because they they don't? But I find it's not enough to do what they did the last time. So they have to make it more extreme, and so he committed all these crimes over a long period and the case had the police were totally useless because they re very confused four star, because
victims were with this similar. Normally, if you were looking for a serial killer, would they would normally carry it in their own sexual preference and as with Jeffrey Dahmer, he was dating his brother, gay men with Jeffrey? Yes, I can just drive it for a moment. I think there are the five murders while he was while he was there in the army that word for the tanuki murders that they thought they might have actually been attributable him, but the fact that they were winning among fist that shit is messed up and several name plus he didn't actually kill that people tend to kill within their own sexual area. Preference to feel didn't do that. He sort of goes everybody like perm sexual, and he was he was sexually.
I don't know he would, even though the railway railroad killer, because he used to write the railway trains and select victims, and he was extremely personable and agreeable and topic of chap. He would go and chat to a woman. Quite often there with big sisters or prostitutes, homeless people, but he was gone chapter villain talk to them about the weather and about whether the machines and the boy and people like him convince him to go with him and then he would just certainly probably tell them apart, but the police. Eventually they actually invested various people there, so the the crimes and but they refused to let the press never appears to publicize this, which would have been their their best weapons. Really so even very misplaced or lost off it got time, but thirty people who died
that they have no idea with no nearer to touching the person had done it. They didn't want to release it to the press because, I suppose, probably the russian fear of secret. You know things not being secret and a law firm. They are causing putting right. Nobody really knew little venture, they did oh and then they did at justice apprehended at one point and they they got a victim and they did. They got a semen sample from the victim, but they got chicks either and they did a blood test on him and the blood type and semen type were different. So they didn't pursue that anymore because it he seemed at that time in the 1980s, but they're always the same, but it was completely normal for any possibility that would have different blood and semen parts. So
lesson three, but it was only later, but there to discover discover happened. Chichila himself, believe that made him unique and different and very special with that. But that he's looking same type didn't matter. So no other way of your question. The whole story of the chicken to logo were one of the features, so you were talking about some of the serial killer profile features, and one of those is many of these when, admittedly serial killers, contact authorities or the media or when they are finally caught, the rule push the idea of giving all the details of their murders. What was about Jacek Othello? That was unusual compared to some of these other people he was with particularly hated MA. You would be if it was fifty other that file. Yes, maybe that's because
Well, when you in court, he denied it still denied anything at first and they were badly psychologist talking to convince them that bad only somebody who is taking Fain could have done this sort of crimes that that he refused off and so sort of download the possibility that he might actually not be executed, but might be put in a psychiatric hospital at which sixty low admitted everything he admit. Made it to the murders that the piece of got details of an avid involved and gave them facts that nobody else could know. He then admitted to another twenty mirrors and then took the police to places. Where but he's a buried in court. He then decided to potential pretend to be in.
Doing so. We started behaving like a complete madman, rattling the bars in cities pushing a cage not so much to protect him and protect over the output, protect him from the crowd, because the scene, the court, were just full of his relatives, who are screaming for his blood and demanding that he should be given to them, and so he was he would take it. Charles is often display inductor everybody and said that he had breast. For me, he was going to give milk to people but
set up. This is been a communist plot an and he and he just played mad, because I think he realized at that point that he might look actually escaped being executed after all, and you do that. But of course, when he went back to Excel is perfectly normal and and fine they had to protect him in prison by the way, because the relative relative of one of the victims was award our ward at the prison, so he had they and the special protection as well, because people were so anxiously to kill him if you still life at home now then he was execution in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four one thousand nine hundred and ninety four, but there's nothing
he said you know when he admitted he then started claiming that he was a special person that this special on this blood. In semen thing you can do special. He came that people he was killing, that is doing public service because they were just ruthless elements. He called them drifters who is cleaning up the streets which, actually, coincidentally, is what british killer the Yorkshire Ripper and when he in the 1970s, that would be late 70s when he was killing many Leeds Yorkshire, they're all prostitutes, but he was saying that he compelled to do this by God to clean up the streets. Well, sixty to said the same social thing, really he he was The thing is it's so amazing about sixty low is that is that taking wife after this is very similar to be your trip of case as well.
It was was amazed because she thought that he couldn't even kill one person, never mind fifty odd, because he you're such a kind and caring, loving husband and father um, but that's even more instant, interesting that these people can lead a normal life and then it is very much a Jekyll and Hyde situations, and it was this as if they have got something inside them, but it's just released in and they turn in two months, well to explain that. Certainly that's what we talk about antisocial behavior, which was formally referred to his psychopathic behavior, the psychopathic killer, and when people say well, they're not insane when there has to be some categorization, and I think at thy socially, they were found the wheel nicer or a little more normal. Then then pulling people suffer passively started, calling a sociopath we're this fact that doesn't make it better. I don't know
what sounds more harmless. Admittedly, people would be caused by the public and it would be equally people who have committed crimes, but I think, what's been discovered in the last twenty five years. Very is it that we could all appear psychopathic scale? If you must have continuum, let me could put all of those on there somewhere being psychopathic to some degree or another or sociopath ticket to some degree or another, and not all people are psychopaths or sociopaths are killers. They just and a lot of people will be there, for both of us are very, very successful in what they do and big business and the sort of qualities despite the cost, would have they would the extremely tell him a little clip people wiped them. They pay
previously made we got everybody out of their own purpose, because I think the sentry there's, no sense, it deals with shame or no conscience. So those sort of skills, particularly if they're able to charm people in peace like them other use, em and say, don't necessarily have to kill people to do this, and presumably desiring to slaughter in conjunction with any thought, but rather than just being fucked up it goes so so you have another element working there, but I think, probably so probably is very much at the heart of all the killers. Are we talking about because he won't couldn't these things will go overboard.
The only thing is that sorry, what I thought was the You know, I understand exactly what you're saying and I've read all the stuff from Robert Hair in the Czech Lee Cycle, psychopath checklist. The thing is, though, is it shouldn't be some distinction between the psycho Pathic or in a psychopath. Otherwise, the sum of the character, six of the psychopath arm more inclusive lot of people are self centered lot. People exhibit no conscience if you're asking me if they exhibit no conscience, but obviously they justify it. There's a lot of business practices that could be termed cycle pathic, so you shouldn't be a real distinction. I'm not such a nice and fuzzy word like sociopath to distinguish. You know these people. Oh, I meant that we continue and I know I have a seventeen year old son and I think seventeen year olds
we also decided back in the country I know best and there but why are they do that either animals but I I think it's phased stories of a sage. Go through where everybody's gonna be there to serve their needs. So yes, that's true what you're saying is quite true and like, and I think they have actually identified, areas of the brain now where, where they can just people to have these strong psychopathic elemen with the coverlet in that area too, for they cannot treasure that very salaries in the brain that that they can say this person to a greater degree psychopathic but but yeah. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you have somebody who is psychopathic but
have lower than actual drive to torture or ill. Dominate another person actually well. That's another element has to be added into into it. I don't you can just say: oh well, that's because he did this because he decides the path. I think you could say. Well, he is a psychopath, but that's not the reason we did it because they offer psychopath, who don't that I should fire on making up. Ok, I'm really saying what I believe right, certainly tat. I am sure there will be more qualified psychiatry. So. He would be able to correctly in areas where I'm not correct, but I think I think psychopathy is. I think you would have to be
It's not the like the studies of statistic killer to imprison. They can say you can say that all the sadistic killers are in prisons as a figure like six extent of them have been abused in childhood. So, therefore, that that actually means another forty percent of them. That's right, you know, there's all these correlations that you can make, but they're not necessarily pauses, because you can find substantial exceptions and in a way that's rather like you know. Yes, all these these killers will be psychopath, undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean evidence of psychopathic scared to be a killer. Yes, let's we don't have that much time. So, let's I want to include this in because this is one of the most fascinating portions of your book. In a story
I had never heard of at all before anywhere. So in the book you discuss, the case is truly the most bizarre for the reaction of the country in which this can more killer, lived and killed. You state that the gene, open, ease more than most nationalities have always shown an appetite for the bizarre, especially if there's a macabre element of suffering or pain, to spice up the entertainment value, and you also- say that you cool, Mishima, Mishima, nothing a homosexual status to a stimulated by the sight of blood became the most successful Japanese, of all time and what he wrote about. Japanese, similarly seemingly embraced, and also greatly influenced a japanese man which is featured in your book name and you can correct me, honey position. I see a cigar. Psychological, I wouldn't floods. I believe I will take our
I'll get very without that right. It. That's probably right I'll, be ok what what did he write about and and how did it it influence cigar and in what cigar, we're going to do very, very old advice about that he was. He was quite a famous. We writer and he and you get right. I think, he's very interesting. The whole Harry Carey Aspect, if of japanese literature there, but there's a lot of I don't get a guy like that unfair, but I don't know whether you get some of the japanese programme with her eyes were invention living in the in my book. There was a series now I put in there what it's called now where people would a bit like
either celebrity get me out of here. We haven't even now. If it was just gonna make retort things like all other issues, it was very much a game show where people would go and be humiliated and have to do things that we really painful and table, and everybody in Japan put. These are under the quite losses here. I think I don't know some sales for the whole japanese people, but but I think the reaction to cigar was lurd and the way that tv immediate reacted to it. I think this is a sort of. This lightning, lady, is of response to these things, and maybe it is because of the japanese traditions of nobility and bravery that were attached to the
some fire throughout the world, but they had thought. Then what will be the thought numbered film of defending the concrete in it. I'm here I thank you for your summer at all of you, I know all the traditional budget they created monsieur le when he told himself Bible. We don't stomach, and I need fantasized about that and written about is in his literature, but I haven't read anything mister sure have to say. I just know that, because I read it myself so whether that wasn't in simple but our either, but it always of this year a strange little individual. Now about now what he did was was accepted. I mentioned the poet because it seems odd that you do talk about the japanese being,
his nationality, unlike others that has its pension benefits for for the bazaar now, the thing is is that this poet is, is a celebrated poet. Despite the nature of his poetry and the subject matter, and and then this sagwa becomes He, despite his crime of murder and cannibalism, becomes also. There was also an aspect of his father being rich, and you say that's part of the outrage of this as well that he had preferential treatment but still bottom line. The society excel looked at him and his murder and cannibalism and an elevated it to a point that that he, is entitled to do this because he was an artist and he was entitled to this special experience. It was autistic up you think so, this old man in show me able collection to attacking. He had a thing about large western women and they had
Derma Tackle Lady attack on a woman when he was younger in his 20s and she thought it off, and but he can prosecuted and his father iterations of the Paris to try and get you out of this this phase, and when it is my Paris, he met a dutch woman who is also the theme of a man and had befriended there and then proposed to be seated upon my which commanded his house and she said no, and so he kill the he shot you in the head and then dismembered Aaron kept Tickle bit parts of body, but it is all it was very. He was apprehended very quickly because he had no way of disposing of her body, and so he could have gotten treasure. Dump it in this case, and I did the boy below, lay things I ran away and
he was caught very very quickly. But what happened was that he was actually declared to be insane when you sent to a psychiatric hospital in Paris, but his however inconvenient father is a very powerful businessman. Again did arrange to have him transferred to a psychiatric hospital in Tokyo admitted him, and so he, was transferred. I mean is only in a few months before they again those with you thought the Father intervention he was released from there, so I think he's only actually incarcerated for two years after this horrific this murder, by when you crazy. He then became during the time in hospital. He wrote about his experience and this went back to Japan and people started, declaring that he was a
a very rare, an office that he actually living as a celebrity and once he came out, he went on television and he was presented as being. Somebody extremely unusual have done something astonishing. It acted on his artistic impulses because he said he wanted to absorb this woman base. Form of love and or on the table is even though he now says he's cured and he's not accountable anymore. He still says that he would. He would still like to actually eat somebody else who agreed to it or be some himself by some beautiful western woman and the things that third serving is that we look at this with growing holler and we our mouths dropping open in amazement. And, yes, it was a a couple of years ago about in Germany, we have the cases the German, the german chat is wanted, but like somebody up about them into bed,
you remember that hey you're sending any competitive battle any found someone he found, someone enabling both they agreed to kill it even better and a piece of paper absorbing in from any any deals, and so you do think well. The internet is obviously open new doors, the people of the most extreme depravity and gave a problem to Germany, to try to establish good night and financed my wife, I'm in my wife and they do Asiang 'cause. It could be charged with murder when actually the personally agreed to be murdered right. That was advanced. Yes, it is extraordinary case, and so when we went to go
this might have a dream to be eaten myself. You think well up sleep, presumably some people who do because this is the case us, but yes, it takes shortly. 'cause he's the truth is that without any right, Buddy get em anything out problem for me they want to go home page. The magazine, no barbecue recipes, unbelievable, that's not barbecue recipes, it's just. I just find it so macabre. This would happen that set, but I suppose also the other thing is that I also did very confirming that the advent of the internet is meant lips,
for the people who would want to felt themselves to be outsiders and they would lose their fear, their interests guiltily to themselves and I'll find out so the people like like out there and in a way that makes them feel it's normal, my biggest yeah. What about the internet? While the thing is foods before the advent of the internet of the popular the internet, there was serial killers that met up with other series. It was of the same mindset and then United forces. So I to see the new development given another twenty years, but we only have a few more it's left more and I would like to talk about a completely opposite thing, completely different subject that you been involved with for quite a while. You can tell us a little bit more about this french Party house. Experience sounds very internet back up any mortal. Also, your company has been the services that you provide have
included in the top one hundred one hundred vacation means to enrich your life and so tell us a little bit about French House Party. Please, oh right. Yes, the woman to test worldwide vacations to enrich your life with him, but I'm grouting about this connected National group Geographic. Yes, we do short break holidays in a house. Beautiful out examples got eight bedrooms and swimming pool and tennis court. We do all inclusive holidays. We do creative writing had been paid little coming to do a rising seminar forward in the summer and we D books and art and pitched the movie making and we've also launched our gastro academy this year for various options for food and wine, with some top chefs from the area who very top restaurants in in Carcassonne is Mcoca, summon service firms. So, but yes, it's rather
applauded. Isn't it a lot better than what we think about my certainly now this book, the boy killers came out. Ninety three m him: it was I crack with that. Yes, ninety three. First printing, it has a lot of difficulty, including the Panama, the need for additional in America, which is just amuse me version, then tradition, England, in in type that, with my visual publishers, and then I think it's a visually available in the states yes, it's it's continued successfully do happen. I've also been told that it just appear on lot of criminology degree lists, so paper causes a dds on
well, maybe it's definitely would be used as a resource, because I know that I it's written at from a perspective. You don't see, and it's laid out very very carefully- yet very, very entertaining compelling book now now for those that are interested in your French House Party experience, maybe you can give us the website for your company. Oh thank you. It would be www dot, Frenchhouseparty, DOT, co, dot. Uk sounds great. Thanks have party the way it's written with mean it's up to each is right in the middle. You should come out. Sounds good sounds great. I get away from all this. I've been involved in some stuff myself in the last little while and the ads you need, you needs, there's a break. Definitely from that. I want to thank you. I want Thank you very much more for very, very entertaining and informative program.
For our audience, you been listening to more martingale. Her book is called cannibal killers. It's an incredible book. You can find it everywhere say Martin's press, I Thank you, Maura and have yourself a very good evening. Thank you very much once again, thank you. Suzanne Cini enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you have a good day, bye, bye. Thank you. Bye, bye, bye, bye,. Even listen to programme program, true murder, the most shocking it true crime, history and the authors have written about them good day, and now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, please be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but the far less appealing blood fish,
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-05.