In this explicit first-hand account, a biker who spent 46 years as a member of the Hells Angels and Satan's Choice invites bestselling author Peter Edwards into the story of life lived as we've only imagined it. A kid raised by his father's fists on the wrong side of a blue-collar town, Lorne Campbell grew up watching the local bikers ride past, making him wonder what that kind of freedom and power would feel like. He soon found out. At the age of seventeen, he became the youngest-ever member of the Satan's Choice Motorcycle Club and spent the next five decades living a life for which he does not ask forgiveness, only that his story finally be told, and that his family finally understand what drove him to live the way he did. With moments of terror and humour, great sadness and the simple pleasures of camaraderie and the open road, Unrepentant is a book like none other. UNREPENTANT-The Strange and (sometimes) Terrible Life of Lorne Campbell, Satan's Choice and Hell's Angel Biker
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Authors have written about them in this explicit first hand account a biker who spent forty six years as a member of the Hell's angels and Satan's choice invites bestselling author, Peter Edwards into the story of life lived as we've only imagined it a kid raised by his father- based on the wrong side of a blue collar town. Lauren Campbell grew up watching the local bikers ride past making him wonder what that kind of freedom and power would feel like he soon found out at the age, He became the youngest ever member of the same choice, motorcycle club and spent the next five decades living a life for which he does not ask forgiveness. Only that his story finally be told This family finally understand what drove him to live the life the way he did with moments of terror and humor great sadness.
The simple pleasures of camaraderie in the open road unrepentant is a book like none other. The book with that we're are featuring this evening is unrepentant the strange And sometimes terrible life of Lauren Campbell Scenes Choice and Hells Angel biker welcome to the program, and thank you to a green for this interview. Lauren Edwards and pardon me Peter Edwards and Lauren Campbell. Welcome to the program gentleman thanks for having us good evening good evening. One Campbell reveal I want it shows that he is very much like you are
I'll. Try here good evening, one Campbell believing morn, still says whole time. So I'm not quite sure. Anyway, welcome to the program peter- and this is congratulations on a very, very interesting, unusual, unique and fascinating book so how Lauren seems Lauren seems to have hung up, so I'm hoping he's just going to call right back in and get in the queue there seemed to be in some pro. When he was on rented him and she was up Well, we normally don't have a break, but he'll he'll call, I'm I'm certain of that, because I'm sure he'll call back,
Anyway, I wanted to ask you, I guess I'll, ask some questions of you that specifically, that really don't need the input from Lauren at this point. What compelled you to write her here here we do have one right here will see we get them back on here. Is this San. Yes good evening warns sorry about that. A technical error. I was hearing you guys, but you couldn't hear me Well, everything straightened out. Welcome to the program and, like I had said to Peter congratulations on a very interesting and fascinating book. Thank you very much. Now I was going to ask Peter Edwards and then I'll quickly ask you without you guys revealing too much of this incredible story. I'm going to ask the basic question of Peter and I'll ask the same question of you, and that is what brought why Peter Edwards Peter. Why did you
want to do this story, what you've written about organized crime. The last time I had you on with your book Bandido massacre. But specifically, why did you want to write this kind of book, which is a lot different than any book Did you written before in any kind of organized crime books that I've ever read tell us why you wanted to work with Lauren Campbell and this book about the beginnings of Saint Choice and Hells Angels here in Canada, tell us, Why you wanted to work on this book? Where do you think you know anything answered it like women? Wasn't the we learn. Talking. It wasn't something I heard before and it wasn't coming I'd read before, and so we need to do something that was was really fresh. It took it awhile. Before I was I I was convinced that you know that he actually would would be, as good as I hoped he would be here, and you know it turned out. He was actually better so, but it a lot of people have have good stories, learn how to
story, but a lot of people are afraid of telling you stories and learn wasn't afraid at all I mean he. It was very big. Doing it is with as well as we could so that no one could say that there we held back. Didn't tell the truth, you didn't give them their money's worth and see what I can really sense of commitment like I got pretty excited about it right now. I ask the same question of you learn: why of why on earth? Would you want to do this? What are what is the real most important? The biggest reason why you wanted to write this? book so you could read it then. No, the reason for, as I have been told through the years by my friends and family, you should write a book because I'd be sitting there telling stories, along with other people, and I suppose, maybe some of my stories were more interesting than anybody else's
and I I heard that through the years- and I was sitting with my friends here- that we live with video Ann Elizabeth Sanchez. We are sending her and just the three of us having a pop and they said the two years ago. You should write a book. Learn and I said: okay, that's you know I just got out of jail. I did four views years in jail just prior to that, and I thought what a good idea you know there's than other people telling me that, like I say, but they ages, the only hit yes, I should write a book and I did. I was looking for an and. In the end. I couldn't I got a better offer to write my book in Peter and anyway, Sir, that
Had made me, why did you come to? How did you come to meet Peter and I know of his work and then make the decision to say you know I I trust this author to tell them well, it was any friend of ours. Mary listen is her name, she said she's a photographer and waiter herself, and I My wife and I had I just went to my heart specialist and and on the way, home- we met her just coincidentally seen her and we went out to dinner and we're sitting on the patio at this place in bear. New market
and I was looking for a writer and she said well, I I know that I know the guy. I know the date is the little one, a rate for you, and it was Peter and Peter covered our case, my last case and and it was criminal organization case by case in the actually the longest in trial in canadian history, and he covered it. Coincidentally and yeah. She introduces the that the internet and it went from there it was it was peter- was a God sent. You know like the to write my book. He he just was the man after I got to know him and I had already read the bandit massacre, and that is what made me pick Peter Peter, never with the characters
You know what I wanted my book to be about full characters. Not just this person did that that person did this. I didn't want that, and Peter was the man. I read that and I seen how he was with you know: pretty bad characters: okay, pretty pretty rough and bad characters. Involving the battle massacre. You know he never run anybody down and Like all my life- and I didn't want that- I didn't want him like a wonderful characters. If you understand what I mean, did I wanted for characters and We need the deal I wasn't gonna lie. I was going to tell the truth and you know what the interesting people
and it worked out between may appear Peter. I know now Peter what we spoke. I've just before we went on air was that I had asked you you know. Basically I congratulate on the book and I said you know this is not really like a memoir and I'm glad you didn't call it that, because people have the sort of what that is, and in your response was that I have to. I have a certain responsibility. As a journalist, you've got ten non books, you've got, twenty five years under your belt as a serious journalist, so tell us what you have to do once you did meet Lauren once you find hey this, this guy's a real deal. What did you say have to do as a journalist as it as your duty to make sure that you roll an unflinching but yet truthful. We had really clear about our roles like Lauren. Could. Could comment on anything could double check the the facts but
but on the other hand, I'd be I'd, be checking what he what he said and I go. I wanted his some prison record, some heat, those prison psychiatric record so that I could check in a great deal with them. He also got his father's military records. Higher got a double check. What he was saying, because you know you, Someone can be likable, but you don't know what they're going to be like under pressure, and there is pressure during a book and so was due checking amend them. I am you know where he was was turning out to be true and from there. Sometimes, when I have a couple couple things and need add something else that would would. It, but it wouldn't make wouldn't make him better, but it would make the story more understandable, more understandable it make. He wasn't triable. Going into his motivation and he didn't. He doesn't mind them criticising himself. He doesn't mind them, you don't have to them. Thirty, two
go around and pretend everything's great. You can be his own harsh critic on a lot of things right, We don't have all the time that we really would have to have to really examined this, but I really like how you you included Europe ringing and so of course, how did how you were shaped? Tell you that your character, which shape so tell us, learn how it was growing up where you grew up and the sort of life that you that shaped who you became as a teenager. That's not a difficult question, but it's a good question. I grew up where I grew up in the call the ghetto in OSHA down the south, then I A lot as a kid anything. That I did wrong? I was beaten. I got sent to the training school when I was thirteen years old and I owe you.
You know the story about the in the box. I thought everybody was was like. I was. I truly thought that you know I gotta I became in the training school thirteen and fourteen years I turned fourteen went Colbert training School then to school. I turn fourteen. I was sir, of the school when I left, that's just a name that they give a guided, the toughest guy in the and in the joint committee I used to see motorcycles. Going by my front window. I window downtown in look. That's where I was born and raised was we had a lot of Boston and clubs I thought all my life and you know that's that's ok with me,
I was told my by my dad when I was eight years old there, eight any he fifteen year old kid in the in the boxing club. We could beat my son, okay, but I I I watch the play clubs say well, I would watch them go by and it was just beautiful to me. That's what I wanted. You know the life I wanted. I seen the brotherhood, I seen them fight and I all my life and for what They believe in and I wanted to be long. I didn't have really much of a my parents loved but I didn't have much of a family life they all like. Me, my my dad had thirteen kids, I mean my grandchildren, my grand had thirteen kids on my dad's side and I think five on my mother's side me all up, but I
You know it wasn't. Really, though I was beaten alive. I might add. Not my mother and my mother would do that better, and you know I thought every kid GO grew up like that. I seen the bikers I fight with the bikers. I stuck them. I was only a teenager and then, when I was seventeen years old I was I went to the president's home and a guy Today, twenty years later, it's in the book, I don't want to reveal what's in the book in order to deal with. Tell us more tell us tell us a little bit more about the event. You say you gonna fight. It tell us about that event and then what was offered to you, which You was a come prize for you. Poor told that my friends and I grew up since I was a young kids- did I went to school with- was beat up by three.
So I was going around this dance hall and I'm looking for these guys and I come out the front and here's the president and the choice and to others. The two other guys actually started. Choice and in were started these guys so I hear one of them say they want to fight. They want to go to Bernie Clinton's hosted site because his basement was set up like a like a a boxing ring. So I I I went over to Bernie and I didn't know I might do a couple of other guys through my family or not, but I said, listen, Do you mind if I come over, because these three guys just beat the shit out of my friend John and they didn't I so later they didn't, but nevertheless, Bernie said yeah. Okay, so we went.
On Bernie, put gloves on with there was two Crowdy guys and one golden gloves. Boxer and Bernie was ended up to be north American British Commonwealth champion You know that service actually my longest running friend, vertical and he started the choice, so he had to fight with the first guy and knocked him about my fight was, the second fight. The only rules were now keep in mind. I'm seventeen years old a pretty tough character, but I never been involved in more sale closer before so all. Like God, it's it's all alien to me too and romantic. So my fight was next day I said, Bernie said you have to wear running shoes. If some
he goes down. As the other guy goes down, you can't kick get and that's my rules anyway. I'm a pretty fair fire, so it didn't last any more than two seconds. And one of the Hamilton guys I got on the ground, I didn't kick him, but the guy who thirty five thought I was going to so up behind me and he grabs me by the shoulder and swings me around after I've already dropped this other guy. Seen what was happened. He swung him around and knocked him out cold again and I swear to God. I thought he was dead. I thought this character was dead his eyes. There was only the whites of his eyes that I seen and I thought holy fuck him pardon my language, but I'm sorry, where the guy, the guy's did, and he wasn't
Then later on that night we sat and had a few parts like the guys from Hamilton and us you know, I'm not a member or anything, and I was asked that night to join savings choice. They didn't know. I was seventeen years old, but that night, because and that's in a nutshell, what happened. I did. I said yeah. And I told the guys later years and years later, I you know they all straight for six months or health angel. She were you, hang around for a year on year prospect for a year and I would show clearly stated the guy's boy I struck her and it was the worst three three weeks in my life.
So that was the other elements for that we throw at each other. Is that is your question? Yes, it does yes heater now you've been involved the with these types of books in these types of cases. As of as a journalist and a non fiction author, Organized crime, and which includes criminal organizations, which were at least tell angels angel the criminal organization, how interesting or tell us about, Sort of the moment that you did you understand that Lauren Campbell you're getting essentially- and I don't know how much of that history you new essentially but the origins of sane choice with burning did you just as you just mentioned, and then they held angels absorbing clubs like the scene,
choice later on in the history of outlaw biker clubs in Canada tell us about, but what that meant to you in terms of valuable information, interesting information and information admit you may not have known before and court valuable as you are, that type of journalist writing about these types of cases, knowledge you were a cross section. There was, I mean not did not everything that criminal, in them and when with Lauren that was kind of funny was it. He said at one point that Satan's choice was a lot of. It was crime, but it wasn't really organized crime like he kind of disputed. The word organized so a lot of it is just sort of the personalities. I think that, sometimes you're trying to figure out something from the outside and you don't have a clue and then when, when someone explains personalities to makes it makes sense, I think sometimes people look at this stuff. Like a
he's, fine movie, it's it's a big master plan to take up, the world and then, when you hear what going on it's a lot more em a lot more human, like a lot more you can under you're, not from a business point of view, as much as from a human point of view why people are doing things having one day in the book book got strung up and he didn't die, but he got strung up and it was for not bringing a beer which which can you know with your comparison and it undercuts people, and it all makes sense when you get into the mindset of the people at the party but from the outside and it looks like it looks pretty insane to string up over a drink, but when you think how the guy was embarrassing them publicly and the consequences of being embarrassed. Then you can start start. Into know understanding why this happened. So that's a sort of right can when you talking to some news actually on the inside and outside Europe. Are you might see the guy dangling,
the tree, but wouldn't have a clue why he got up there right and you know it's interesting too. Is that there's not that much documentation? I know I've seen a couple of documentaries about you know the origins of savings choice and was interesting. You include in your book about a film director named Shabi information. I didn't know exactly who this guy was tell us about Bernie Glendon. How did he become the leader of the same choice? Tell us a little bit about the history of that Lauren about the the other other Baker clubs that he drew from and his and the rivalry with Johnny Sombrero tell us tell us about the origin of the saints choice and burning winded and how that all began. Yes to me, it's interesting, I hope to other people. It would be just as interesting. Bernie was was a golden hawk writer.
The black diamond writers were invited to Pebble Stone Park. I think it was called just outside of OSHA and on be known to the the cold- that the black writer, Sir they we're, cutting down trees and tree stumps for weapons and beeps, not out of out of the golden. In the cold, how weren't ready for it. So after that Bernie and Red Chalk and Carmen deal there was three members started the phantom writers. They left the golden hawks. Bernie was one of the guys that stood up to the black ever writers. They were tough course in all. You can say it about them to they were tough, tough crew.
And anyway, so things were different back then, but they started. The phantom riders Motorcycle Club in OSHA then should be They wanted to make a just national film Board thing on motorcycle clubs Right so they went to the the and the Paradise writers one of them didn't have enough members, the other one didn't want to do it. I can't remember which was which, but they come the burning and he said yeah, let's do it. So he went to Sir. Let me see your trial twister's, the plague archie source for clubs, from tiles me think no others
two clubs from Toronto- road runners and canadian lancers, they said okay and they decided to put on the Satan's choice patch to make this document right so after the documentary was made, it was only it was like seventeen or eighteen hours of, but they cut it down to half an hour and whose national, film In fact, I've got it here somewhere and they made that Bernie talk the other clubs into leaving the choice patch on their backs and it was like fuck. You too was a black eye writers, you can't
You can't hurt us anymore, that's what it was, so they kept the patch, and that was the first four chapters and it grew from you group. I think Bernie, is in the but Saint choice was an earlier. There was an earlier version with some young guys. They had been started a patch but Bernie like that. He was looking for a name and he liked you like the look of it in the name right. Yes, Yeah you know about it. Don't you dare? Yes, that's absolutely three day like the name he went to. Don Norris, who was the first choice that got wiped out by the black thy writers dawn, was the first Satan's choice. And he asked on. Would you mind if we use the same choice, name and the patch? It was exactly the same. Just different Madeira and Don said. Yes, yes,
The rest is history. We became all the chapters from then on Now Peter, what was your your biggest task with this as opposed to every all, the other writing that you normally do covering trials and then all the non fiction books in the research was there anything different here in and if it was, what was the bulk of what you really have to do here to be success?. Your in your mind with this book trick way. I mean I mean it would have been easier to raise an eight hundred page book because there's a ton of stuff, but we want to scare people away with just too much her too many pages like that. The trick was boiling down. You know there were a lot of a lot of really interesting stories that if they found sounded kind of the same you'd have to the best one or you have to take stuff from different years to have it flow?
the usual. Sometimes when you're doing a book. You have this. This panic, after you sign the deal that you may not have the information this one. It was more just tons of information we could have gone on for four years and years working on this thing. To learn every week for eight hours and go up to his place with about forty questions, and know, always by the end of it. The forty would be answered in a bunch of every bunch of new stuff in the night I have enough to to write twenty thirty pages a week. So getting the material wasn't a problem. It was more I'm just trying to figure what themes to cover. You know his family versus the club, his childhood versus what is like in prison. All these different things you had had the cover was was a great great feeling to know that there's always material? I that I didn't have to argue with him were her
the trend for nothing other than he was? He was working like he Lord, Margo. You knew what we were doing them what our job was and he went out like a partner. Usually I have to try and price stuff other people right right right. So what did you did. You come away, even though you've written about bikers before and organized crime. Did you come away with a bet understanding a more comprehensive understanding of what it takes to be a biker and why anybody would want to be a biker. Some of us. Let me do you look at it less as an organization and as a collection of people and there's a lot of things you start to to to wonder like makes you wonder what kind of a father was because he could see the influence of
further and he wanted me to think you know what was I like him with my kids? It wouldn't you you were trying to put you in that there, but go for the there, but for the grace of God go I sort of thing which is here but people who it's from, he heard stories them. You know who you had a pretty rough one. Their young and how they coped with also with them it its term impress me how to learn, skip to sense of humor. When he's had a lot of incredibly rough things happened in or around them, so that it just it just for you coping to you, don't like it. When someone keep the sensor, and everything's, been taken away, and you know they've been stripped of things that they've worked for it. It does get you do. I think we're in a human level, but how people can can survive and move on. It also shows you how you can. You- can really get along with someone, even though your your life isn't that much like their life in a lot of ways, you can still be friends with somebody when you want
as you may not have much in common ass, certainly certainly now learn this. The title of this book is unrealistic. And so I've got to ask? Obviously you agreed with the title. I don't know if you came up but it certainly representative of you in this book. I certainly understand why this it's it's a an appropriate title but tell us why you were used. I thought this was an appropriate title and repent and then what does that? I mean the people that just look at it. What are they supposed to take away from that when they see unrepentant and this life that you've lived, the title, the target I love the title, because when you look at the book, I hope that people see all aspects of my personality.
I do, have a sense of humor, but during the days of the days and I was pretty harsh and I collected money was a harsh person and don't have regrets case, anybody anybody, I don't have regrets for the people that got hurt while I was collecting money and because that is that's the life and I was playing the life in the life, I should say- and Other people were planned the life, so if they got hurt so be it and I have No regrets have regrets in my life, but it's not when it comes to the people that were dealing drugs or the people that I was collecting from. I have her
No regret or remorse? That's just the fact that. Right. My live a different life. Now I've always loved my family. I've always been true and I've. All my family and friends have always protected them, and have not had any fear towards myself. I've been shot and stabbed more than anybody. I know and I never never had any any fear or rejects up for the ones that I'd love for close at my family or the people that I love and and it's just the the way it is now I just where the different life higher you know what I'm with my family. Now I cherish my family more than ever and it's a different life. Now you say what I did in the introduction. As we spoke about that
this book is also to explain some things to your own family and I guess close friends and and critics. I guess people to think again, I use the Word criminal organization because that's the language sometimes is organization and- and- Like every other cycle club is fought against that that stereotype right yes, can. I just explained that, for anybody, that's listening I I don't really explain my life. I don't feel that I have to do that, but in two thousand and seven I got arrested, I spent fifty months. Jail along with three other people in the end, and we thought criminal organization charges and they threw everything at us, it was the law longest running the trial in canadian history
I can't tell you enough how much they tried to through that criminal organization the at this and we won. We won hands down. I said rate from the first. I told my guys we're all hells angels. I I told them will fight this. In front of a curing of our peers. This may sound goofy. They saying this ten that may sound a little bit goofy. You know, but we did fight it. You know a lot of guys wanted to to plead to this simply but in the end us fought it and they threw everything at us and we won. You know I'm very proud of that. When I say we want, I don't I don't say it through bitterness,
from now on. It's in my rearview mirror, so you have to. Anybody listening to understand, but we we won the case, and it was three months plima and nine months of every day going to church going to court a trial and one when they talk about criminal organization. We won that, no matter what anybody says about Hells angels. They are not a criminal organization, so you know- maybe I do here again but know we it and we want it hard. We want sir we to hurt the judge was fear. The jury was fair and there you know like it there I could swear, but I won't
the day? This question? You know you include in the book about the famous movie, while the wild one with the Brando and Lee and you like to leave Marvin character in the idea of freedom and used to see club members going by and their bikes and you- and you said you thought that as you with vision, that is of freedom and and power Has been worth it all the years in prison and is it is. I know you don't really say with a book, but I mean I'm asking you in your life. Was this fight for freedom, personal freedom, all the prison, all the tribulation is awarded. I explain the prison part I used to I've done years in prison? You know, that's just a fact: I've done years in prison when I've been know the person I sat there with friends and friends children's their children
and we used to laugh and joke about all the good times we had in prison and the funny things we had in prison, and you have to catch what I'm saying please, but I would notice after a few years. I would notice that these kids teens or or even less lesson that they would be listening to us And they would be looking at us like were heroes, the we would never talk about the hardships in prison. I've been locked up for months at a time and that's twenty four hour lock up and I thought can I see these children looking at me, so I stopped doing that. I stopped talking how much fun we had at certain times in prison because
and a lot of these kids ended up going to jail. So I stopped doing that and you know I'm not in special, I'm, not a morality. Guy, like you know, my morals are the same, I was born with. I have very good morals, but I just seen these kids watching it and I started. Doing that so when you say like talk about me in prison, I done my time and I done my time. Well, Nobody nobody screwed with me you know I I won't let even at my age now anybody screw with warm. You know, like I said after this last bit, that I did nobody screwed with this Hells angel, but you know
like after saying that I don't like kids looking at life behind bars, as a romantic or romanticism it's it's not! You know like I I've. I I've met a lot of tough people in jail and they've cried over their children. A so I don't know whether that answers your question, but you know that I wish people from this book. People say well, what's the what's the thing behind this book? Well, that's one of the that's one of the you know. I don't think that you're you're going to go to prison and everything's gonna be all to to say know: I've watched people, the people being shanked. I've are actually stabbing shot more people that have stabbed and shot me.
You, but don't think it's that easy and don't think it's the life, it's not the life yeah! Well, that's why it's! Only one percent of the people can Game membership in a club- and, like you say in the book you talk about about the book you and Peter that there's a lot of guys that don't last too long in the club, so the turnovers yeah there's pretty frequent. Yeah yeah they're always has been. There always has been done, but it's it's change like the the the biker life is changed through the years. Whether like you can look at it like a change to the good or change the to that that I think it should. Change. I think just life changes like through the years. I was one thousand nine hundred and sixty six. I was a member at seventeen and
You know I I left the club two years ago and and the brotherhood still to check the same, but it's the clubs aren't the same like it. The world changes the world changes that you know And, along with that club change now Peter you were talking about the process that you use, the seven or eight hours at a time or a week. Pardon me out was a week of correspondence that you would turn into information that didn't you then edit down and like. Say try to gather in the stories that reflect what you wanted to say, overall, what you thought, what you thought you really did want to say between you. Two as authors of this book, tell us a little bit more about the pro. Says that you did and how long was this process? How long did it take from beginning to
and from meeting to publication. How long did this whole process take for you, Peter started talking and I'm late August of twenty eleven? And then I guess you know came out in in April of this year and it would have been edited, maybe four months before that, so pretty continual process, and there is in a little break in the middle there of about six weeks where so we just sort of pulling the information together, but pretty Did you lose when you know it's going? Well is when you actually are looking forward to the meetings like. I was looking forward to the meetings, and I was wanting to you- didn't, have your your forty questions answered and then you think up another forty. It keeps her to going on. He ended when he was young was really working answering them. Then, even if I didn't quite understand an answer all the way, I could sk it again and then get a little better. You know a little better sort of take
where he was coming from. I thought that was know fan opportunity really and then, when I kept checking what he was saying to make sure it was true. But I do the you it always true lucky. He was more explaining why? did what he did and how it felt. He wasn't disputing know, saying no didn't didn't anything anything like that. It was more here's. Why and here's how it felt in and here's what it's like to be in this situation, so it it's it's pretty exciting, really like in in my job, you spend spending running time chasing around people around and trying to get them to you say a little about. Something when someone's really making an honest effort to to explain what happened, know sort of thing that keeps you the job and it makes it fun right, Did you and a half
a new in the course of this happen to meet any of the characters in the book that one would have introduce you to yeah. Other was interesting to you know like that. Was there people like Bernie Grindin that you ve heard about them at that was there was neither was some. You gave us interesting when you could actually sit down, I'm going to talk to someone about something and the you know, people just just sort of trying to put it in context of what it felt like. I think. Sometimes, when people do do books, the sort of thing they forget that they're still writing but human beings. They turn it into a world war to and try and make it all tactical this and money that they they forget that people are actually involved. You know that a lot of these are human stories know there's there's a human reason why people do things and then
and then there's things you wonder, like you know coping in prison. How do you keep your head together in the it it's great when someone actually tries to you here makes a real sincere effort to explain it to you that You don't get that chance every day and then also a lot of people, even if they try not bright enough to tell her reason, learn to break guy forty kept them thanks, you think of things from a lot of different angles, and he could he could say yeah. This is absurd, but this is what I did and wooden term, you wouldn't train your sugar coated. It's a lot of lot books from the sort of stuff it. Someone thing of the devil made me do it. You know, I didn't really mean to do it all the bad people made me. Do it and learn what to say yeah, I did it. You know, and it's something we're honest about that. Then people keep doing something that crying and then pretending that there's a bunch of bad apples that dragged them down, is a question, ask both of you and you can you can answer it first, Peter, because I think you,
a different answer and obviously a different perspective. You've covered a lot of tiles in in in a royal star and whether it's a Toronto star or the National post or it's a Winnipeg Free Press or it's Anywhere in Canada, it's not like the Satan's choice and hells angels have gotten easy ride in in print at trials and their depiction of the newspapers depiction of these motorcycle. Clubs, have you I saw you on Canada AM, and certainly that was there was no flak on there. Have you gotten any resistance at all, given that kind of coverage historically in Canada, for this book, and especially that of this book book. I think a lot of people old all sides of it like it lot. Alongside the really don't like it. I mean. I know that you have I'm friends with measure
the reporter. Who is back so I know I know bad things happen like I'm, not some, not naive, but then them it. There was a small group of people that did that every every angel. So I think him convert pretty you know in in a way were working away on the book and you have to bring code with the other. People are gonna. Think because you trying to make the book almost it's own id cards, kind of corny, but like a living thing, and you don't if people don't like it, they don't like it, but did you know? I think we were here today, it's a real, honest effort and I think it's fair to extremely on this book and I don't think we tried to make it this way or that way we just tried to make it. You know understand entertaining and if you don't like it go read another book is hurting my feelings No? Would I'm not I'm not saying pray you like it or not? Do you
that you do so you thought beforehand, I'm talking about resistance, because you do you're doing really well the question I already know it. This book is doing really well as well accepted, but I was asking the question: is there been any resistance? Is there been any surprises, as their van in terms of you know this? This, like I say I I'm surprised that there would be no reason distance, but it it it. There been any resistance at all, or there had been to do an interview, some people, free to go to the book launch party? I was telling jokes about no colors and then some people, I condone and going to the party with this other thing to be sent on Princeton Massacre something so he you know like it's sort of funny, but the there it gets interesting to tell people read it like one thing that really hit me was how many women, like it, usually when you're working on a book like this, you assume it's mostly for
know from for men and this one a huge amount of the contact it had on the internet or people. Who've been approached me about it wanting to about it or woman in the term that that's kind of them. I found that fascinating. I think him smarter police like it because they like to, into the heads of people they deal with people. People want everything black and white. You know, then they won't like it. I mean one thing: I think: when people talk about drug trafficking, think. Anyone who buys a drug is part of the crime, not just the person selling it, and so it is enough For everybody there know a lot things that are really see is the fighter that side and forget get upset with you when you them we want the world nice and simple. You know good guys and bad guys and we're victims and they're making us do things. I just don't see the world that way well
but you know, that's good. Obviously, you wouldn't be able to write this book if you did, but what I'm saying is like canadian media is not very open. Minded about that. When I say when you're in a trial and supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and you've got these labels, labels depictions and then charges like a criminal. Organization I mean you know so people you know just may tend to. You know, think. On highly of motorcycle cop, that's all I'm saying so, I'm I'm other people will write about them without in journalism you're supposed to try and approach both sides. You know, why did you do this or what did you think? It seems like one area where you don't really have to approach both sides. You can just make up what you want. Put in what you want you know they can. I mean some pretty terrible. Things happened in Quebec and I can understand that you know that people are her upset. You know, and that's you have certainly but jump in there more than upset, and I
I disagree with any of that. I disagree with what's the name for it,. When you shoot somebody from the outside of a house right, both router right dry buys I disagree with all that, but I have to jump in there and say say what the Peter said what the hell was that you guys were just talking about when the criminal world I can't remember what it was now. I just sorry, I lost my thought. Well, let me ask you a question. While you gather your thoughts, Peter thank you has been the impression of your friends and especially former club members and existing club.
To this book. So far it's been released, like you say in April, so little ways away so club members that I've got feedback from that. Don't like the book because they don't like what I say, But I haven't really my opinion. I haven't really something bad about the about any of them. I wouldn't have been around for forty six years. If I didn't love the life that I was leading and I actually love the life that I was leaving. My house is not that good now and that's why I left the club and but I that that that wasn't so, I would have still been with the club. You know whether what is birdie, what is birdie grindin, think about this book,
Bernie Glen is my longest baker friend ever and he loves it go here. He loves the idea that the law and him, along with the other club members that are still in the club, I love the idea- is this I've written a true account. Take this as a Nobody can pass the fact that there's been criminals I was one of them then, and I was pretty. Strong character when it comes to back and things up, I was very, very violent. All my life. I don't apologize for that because that's just the way I was and I fit right into the Satan's choice when I started with I was sir, I'm an extremist,
extremely loyal, and that's me, but most the guy, that I met through the years. Contrary to popular belief, are not criminals, the the the the the toss. Individuals like this you know most the most. The one percent clubs are tough guys, the tough case they back up with the what they say, but they're, not criminals. Think about the criminal organization is laughable to Satan Choice and Hell's angels. It's one! a we have to laugh at it. You know the government has depicted them guys as criminals because or criminal organization, because there's criminals in their very tough guys there's been deaths. There's been you know, violence, but uh. That's sticking up for what you believe in
You know frontier justice or whatever you want to call it, but The thing is that a lot of people agree with you. I think they say: hey, listen if you're not dealing with them, if you're not involved with drugs or big, you. Maybe drugs should be legal, anyways prohibitions. Alot of people can get around that. You know I've seen it personally. The people don't have this disrespect, nobody spitting on any bikers they right by and motorcycles or you know shunning them. So, despite some people might have a certain attitude towards them, but it certainly kind of keep it quiet but What I'm saying is that some people think it some people make because based on Montreal based on and straight people, more criminal than the bakers should I seen so. It's made guys like me, proud of we are, I don't trust, be more of a criminal. During my criminal life, I've not tried
the more criminal because of what I've seen, but it made me so proud of who I am seeing criminal be either within the police force, at all argue with anybody I will argue with anybody when it comes to that topic. Well, let me ask you this. One is a question that doesn't make me a better word: doesn't make them better the police force or you know, store so called street people, but I've seen so much. Criminal criminal stuff from the police force that I I've been involved with, and any more or any less than the bikers, so
I'm happy being. Who I, who I am the thing, is what people really are fascinated about? That's how we get to a book and people with the with and book a program. A this like this murder is murder. Some people look at the murders of whether it's not so much innocence this other? Well, yes, in a serious, and so a lot of you know that I thought that the there has been innocents killed during the you know, the Baker them or or even police forces there's been since killed him. I saw me myself, but anyway myself. I disagree with any of that. You know if there's when bombings. Or shootings drive by shootings and innocents have been killed. I disagree with that.
You have to get with me and sit down for a couple hours dollars what I did, but I don't run down anybody, I'm not trying to say I'd better than anybody could have done a lot of things in my life. I've heard a lot of people and you know so be it. But I just disagree with all that shit can I say, shit sure this is certainly all right now tell us the fellas, Peter and then I'll get. You just also answer this question too. What exactly did you want to be able to convey to an audience with this book? What is all in looted in their seats. I know we. We talked about the history, the origins of sage, choice and burning wind in and Johnny, some Ferrero, very amazing stuff, and then, of course, later on in the book. Is the health angels in the same choice again
imagine the being absorbed. All of that is covered in their overall with the book, not a moral message. But what did you because it's not real more message. What did you really want to convey? that you didn't find in any other book and really wanted to convey in this book Peter? What did you really want wanted expressed I think what I wanted was an honest from the inside book about them. Where does it feel like and my favorite sizes, like a rolling stone by Bob Dylan worry things and how does it feel and a lot of things? You'll know what happened, but you still don't really know what it's about, and you want to know where he can see all the but you don't really understand it before. I wanted something that you would tell me how it felt Does it feel like when you do this? What does it feel like when you're locked up? What is it like when extreme things are happening, just sort of water,
the emotions, you know what pushes someone to to do certain things, and so I wanted the factual you know. Obviously we had to have it in there, but I didn't want a dry history book about know in nineteen sixty five, happened in their x amount of members, and that's all there is. I wanted to know. Why did people feel the need to come together, Why do people feel the you know the push to do this and do that because a lot of times we forget that these are actual human beings, like it's not cartoon characters a lot of times it's it's portrayed for trade cartoony, really where you
get that there is. There is human motivations for things and what it and more and the question to you is to this. You have talked about your entire life from going up what shape do your dad, the lifestyle that the the split up of your parents prison? But what did you want to really convey? What is the the the the jam of? What did you want to explain and convey in this book that you had in in in some telling of the story that you had? What did you really want to be able to say with this book through this book? I'm glad you asked that? Yes, the book is from the start. Was make sure you know what you want in life and there's a lot of people that want to be like me. They seen
motorcycles? Go by. You know a hundred motorcycles goodbye once and its come. Rather it and I wanted people in this type of life, not just biker, but this type of it's a rough life be sure, you want in any life, just be sure what you want you get into this. It's set for me. It really did fit for me. I was comparable all the time. I was right and I still right I still write every day I went for today a lower, so I just that's my life. I love doing it. Last people there they're rough people rough around the edges. And I enjoy riding with them I enjoy being with them because they actually are the soft
people in the world. These bikers are the softest people family, wise and stuff, like that, but they're. The toughest people I will make sure what you want. You gonna go to jail. You're, probably gonna get divorced, and all of that like Youtube, that's probably in your probably you might get shot like kids, but Jesus enjoy it while you're doing it. You don't look, don't look for trouble, but if trouble comes to me, I'm there I'm there that is the word for me. You know I used to my feet and my enemies get it to something on I won't swell data
Okay, I anyways, you know I say get it to hell on, but if it's not your life, that's what I'm for that's. I'm trying to get it across in this book, and I I wanted full characters which Peter is done like it's just there I want is, is that is it that way with four characters? Not this person did that and that's it yeah. I want this for their characters that covers a like that and give a little bit of his life. And that's what I read so many biker books. It makes me sick when I read them, because it's supposed Mimi, Mimi Mimi. And I'm not about that- I haven't got that kind of eager to do
I wanted like the characters that I met during the years and that's why what people said to me. You should write a book, not me, like I'm telling stories about my French that I met. Most of them are dead. You know, and I accept that most of them are dead. You know a lot of them were my best friends and they're dead, but portray them in this book, Peter as rounded characters, and he did that he did that. I'm just great. Yeah I want I want to commend both you guys, combined. You guys have made a unique team again. Peter is right because you've been more than forthcoming more than candid you were there, you have your to the information and again, like you said Kennedy, this is like not Like a lot of books, there's a couple french, canadian guys rattling off that written a bunch of biker books that he we will we
mobile. Those guys are and then like you. They the guys. I've been snatches, so so that it is completely different. You get me a completely up an overview and Peter has brought the ability of right from the very beginning, drawing the character right into your life? And so I don't know if that explains it, but it is offered yeah you just you just get in for the ride and it's an interesting ride and it's a fascinating story and I want to congratulate you, you, gentlemen, on a great book, repent that an I I imagine you guys are having a lot of fun doing all the interviews. I know this book is done really well on Amazon, with hot new releases, and I saw you guys just recently on Canada am so so it must be a lot of fun for you Lauren, especially yeah. It is, and at six
it was very odd and yes do nothing with Peter like to doing all this with fear and becoming friends, and it has has meant a lot to I didn't like anything. It really means a lot and I some of the situations you get in a third, a fun where I am a couple weeks ago I met the police, are retired people officer who arrested, learn, and he you know just really interesting, to hear the same story from from the other side. You know from both sides of the gun like have both both guys explaining what the minutes- was both sides of the don't get that very often you know where both sides, they're telling you and they're smiling away and doing their best to explain it. Yeah, I'm hoping that guy shows up when we're signing books on Saturday, yeah me too, so where's the next. Signing guys market new market on Saturday. New to
the five chapters chapters for great good luck with that those are always fun. I love that I love meeting people and let them know about a story that they might not about, but it's in good to see friends, so it's really nice yeah. Well, I guys know anybody interested all interested welcome absolutely well. I want to thank you, gentlemen, for first off a great read and, secondly, a really good interview and Thank you very much, and thanks learned for kind of taking some of those kind of had to post some tough questions. Years, so I know you do that anyway. I want to thank you good interview. Pardon me a good I enjoyed it. Thank you very much, gentlemen. You have a good night for those listening, you've been listening to Peter Edwards and Lauren Campbell, and there, the authors of unrepentant these two
change, and sometimes terrible life of Lauren Campbell Change and thank angels biker. Thank you very much night and connect ok, hi, I'm Jay Farner, ceo of Quicken loans. Thirty percent of Americans who are planning home improvements of five thousand dollars or more will pay for those renovations with a high interest credit card. That may not be a great idea. A better idea may be to take cash out of your home with the Quicken Loans thirty year fixed rate mortgage. The rate today, in our thirty year, fixed rate mortgage is three point: nine nine percent APR four point: zero. Eight percent call us today at eight hundred Quicken or go to rocket mortgage dot com rates of exchange. At one point, two five percent be receive the discount rate, all the concentration in conditions because, like license in all fifty states and one hundred thirty- and now I thought from Geico Motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit, animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah, please be the cheetah and learn your animal. Isn't the cheetah, but
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Transcript generated on 2021-06-10.