« True Murder: The Most Shocking Killers


2014-07-09 | 🔗
Violent crimes in America have become an epidemic within the past decade or so, with more juvenile offenders taking to the streets, homicide and murder rates have skyrocketed, as science does their best to study the minds of America's most horrific killers. Amanda Seaton would like to invite you to delve into the world of crime and forensics, as she provides an analysis of those violent crimes committed by juvenile offenders, mothers, husbands, room-mates, ex-football players, and one of the most famous sadistic serial killers of the 1970's. The book explores the substantial problem the United States of America is facing with violent crimes, not just committed by adults, but juvenile offenders as well. VIOLENT CRIMES IN AMERICA: And The Forensic Disciplines Used To Solve Them-Amanda Seaton
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers and true crime history and the authors that have written about Gacy, Bundy Dahmer, the night stalker Dgk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killer crime, room murder with your host journalist and author Dan. This is Nancy good evening. Violent crimes in America have become an epidemic within the past decade or so with more juice. Dial offenders taking to the streets come and murder rates have skyrocketed as science does their best to study.
The minds of America's most horrific killers, Amanda Seating. Would like to invite you to delve into the world of crime and forensics provides an analysis of those violent crimes committed by juvenile offenders, mother's husband's roommates, ex football players and one of the most famous sadistic serial killers of the 1970s. The book explores the substantial problem. The United States States of America is facing with violent crimes not just committed by adults, but juveniles there's as well the book they were profile, on this evening is violent crimes in America and the forensic disciplines used to solve them. With my special guest journalist and author Amanda Seating, welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing to this interview, Amanda seating. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you very much very provocative book and let's get right to that without giving
What your way, maybe maybe it's probably because of Background, but I don't want to put words in your mouth- tell us exactly why what compelled you to write this book at this time, what brought you to the writing of violent crimes in America? When I first enrolled into my bachelor's degree, I had a strong interest in homeland security and throughout my studies I A little bit into the area forensics that they had used in order to track down terrorists and or solve the terrorist crimes that have taken place, not just in America but across the world,
and where delving into the world of forensics, it became rather interesting with all the unsolved murders and cases that have been going on more specifically in the past decade or so, and so I decided That would be interesting to obtain a masters in forensics and where is the starting, the master three four and six. I realize that forensics is a very interesting category of science that you're very young, and a lot of it is very on no one misconception is often occur, and so I felt that by writing a book I would be able to trade. Some of the misconceptions in the reality behind forensics make it easier for people to understand.
Oh great, okay! Well, that's a great segue! So let's, let's get into exactly what forensic! What you mean by what's the definition of in your mind with a forensic disciplines are and then tell us about just go through a couple of the myths that people really do believe that about forensics itself. We believe that forensic discipline is the application of science and opinion put together in order to create the outcome of various different actions that they would use in court. Some of the common misconceptions that are used are the CSI effect where victims and family members often believe that the police can solve
Prime, in an hour where, realistically it can take weeks weeks months and years, and sometimes I never solved at all. And the other one is the biggest one that I had Was that they are not able to get DNA, auto fire victims or victims that have been submerged in water, so I felt that it was important to you bring to the forefront that they are able to extract dna from those types of Now is there some hindrance? Is there some. Issue I mean I I have heard about the that water would destroy droid, dna or because of decomposition. So tell us tell us really what the truth is regarding dna and being submerged in water for like the time.
Well the problem with the victim being submerged in water. Is you have the fear of fish and other sea creatures eating away Xosoft issue that would be needed in order to abstract that dna, but they have found with finding victims and water that they're able to abstract it out of the bones themselves. Instead of needing the typical soft tissue that one would Typically find I see, and what about what was the, why did people believe I guess the serial killer? Might that might be a myth among serial killers as well that they you just burn the body. But what I had read was that this it's too low a attempt sure to destroy the body. So again, just what you said as long as there's bones, then there's possibility of dna, regardless of fire.
Exactly they had. There was our case on California of what they believe was cause. By group of gang members, but they had cut the phone off of. Major with a machete and they had burns in the backyard and when police had located the spot they had, they were actually able to. Your letter from the charred remains, which ultimately led to them being able. To identify the teenager. Well, of course, everyone's heard of the in a and and you're in DNA is God sent to a police and prosecutors, and and officials in in line secure, In every country, but what are some of the other.
Some of the other things that are involved in forensics of some of the other disciplines themselves, not disciplined, but some of the other will say, skills that are involved in forensics well with friends XP in such a wide area of science, it really comes down to the special skills that these scientists and experts hold themselves such as you have. A has knowledge. Is you have a biologist? You have psychology. And they are just simply a path. Ology is a biologist and a psychologist until it comes down to a crime, the last four the forensic actually comes into play, that's where they use their expertise in order to basically say that the likelihood of this happening is great, so biologist void or a botanist. What study for as a psychologist would but in the mind of a criminal, see the like?
Of them actually being able to commit a crime, no do we have issues in terms of again, you say about the CSI effect. Everybody thinks in an hour that something gets solved and and that I've, inevitably, everything will get solved because they have these wonder kinds of science and these incredible labs. My question is: is with the budget constraints,
Is every jurisdiction equipped with the kind of forensic abilities, basically the the budget, to be able to conduct forensic testing very much, but very much like CSI, but is that the sort of considerate are on these kinds of budgets for be able to have fully forensic tense testing? That's necessary for all kinds of crimes that might warrant it? Money is definitely an issue, especially when it comes to smaller towns.
Such as the small town in Utah with a mother who had killed her seven children. The state did not have the money nor the technology in order to test the dna and the remains of the child are found in the garage and they had to stand. There remains to the federal lab at the FBI in order to obtain DNA, to try to figure out the hot in the manner of death, which is a huge problem with smaller. Crime, labs, smaller cities, cities that have a lower budget, so really that can cause cases to go cold cases to the unsolved Ann and
ultimately, criminals walking three, because they do not have the time Enerji Bunny in the manpower that it takes. Two put the science behind these crimes and solve them. So it's so science and forensic testing and laboratories and those kinds of budgets are even more than just personnel would normally be in equipment exactly. Now you tell us about some of the cases that you decided to write about in your book and and tell us I am, I think the audience is interested in the this most sadistic serial killer of the nineteen seventies who it is, and why did you write about this particular serial killer. What was it about? Their
signature, their characteristic about their crime itself, the murder itself? What was it that you wanted to convey? What? Why did you pick this particular killer. So America has seen hundreds of sadistic serial killers over the past four thousand and fifty years, but I felt that one of the most interesting the study would be TED Bundy and it's not mainly because he was a serial killer was the manner in which he can.
Edit his crimes and the excuses, ed or reasoning behind his crimes that he had used and that he was so forthcoming to explain during his interviews before his execution and and researching Bundy did interested me because he had stated that from a young age he had been addicted to violent, pornographic images and he had an issue with his mother. Are rejecting him throughout life he was rejected. He was a failure in school, and so he really wants to act on that violent pornographic material in order to gain some control back in his life, which ultimately want to. I am telling dozens of women across America.
So this is an issue where has come up in because there's been endless conversation about TED Bundy and how forthcoming he actually was and why he was not forced. Originally and a lot of people know about TED Bundy. This program, we've done Kevin, Kevin Sullivan, examined TED Bundy, First interviewed Ann rule, who worked, of course at the crisis hotline next door to next to TED Bundy, and it's great that the revelations that he did have. But I What I did not issue, but some people have issue with the drawing too much emphasis from that, Certainly he did view violent pornography and certainly a lot of serial killers, which would say that same sort of thing, but at the same time, if you
look at TED Bundy and the life that he was dealt. He at a time when he was enjoying great success, almost Sabotage himself and considering the things that you know his mother telling is adopt all these things and finding out the truth. Does it. We still explain TED, Bundy and sorry, getting away from you with TED Bundy, but Did you really? What could you can really conclude from ten bud? Ten Bundy, looking at the research that you did for this book? Well, research, Ryan, TED, Bundy, obviously there was a lot of it. A lot of people have their basic opinions on him, including expert, The bottom line is we. Do not know for sure they're not violent, pornographic,
real and or videos were truly the cause of his violent crimes, which could also be said about the drug and alcohol addiction that he claimed that he had he had, but we can say that it definitely did have you play in his behavior and it may very well have been the cause of him committing his first prime. But after committing that first crime he could very well have just gained control back into himself. And We needed to keep feeding into that in order to keep feeling like he's in control, since a good portion of his life. He had not been. Yeah I mean there's always the argument, though, that people watch violent movies and and aren't violent or if they would be hard pressed to blame their. Violent behavior. Their murderous, behavior on watching murderous movies, 'cause other
does wheat have a I mean it would be nevermind epidemic of all the people that are playing violent, video games and watching violent movies. I mean it's it's in a sort of american pastime. There's almost now the murder comedy, you know a light. Hearted murder. Mystery, or so it's I think, there's something to be said that the desensitized being desensitized and being conditioned If somebody were to look at violent child point at a young age, at least they believe that there's other people to think like they do. Is it break from reality today. Did they think that this actually occurs, but still does not really explain TED Bundy? I mean over and beyond one external thing being the creator of that. Can I hate to argue about one thing creating this, but I've looked at a lot of serial killers as well and- and it's I think everyone can say safely- that
given that they share certain characteristics. Despite that. There's no real, explaining how people have the capability to kill ten or twelve or a or people in this kind of manner. Would you agree? I do agree with you. I think that's the same thing could be said about you know: Darn Casey, the Son of SAM all the way down to the Green River Taylor. They could sit there all day and say that they had addiction problems, but millions. Americans and people all over the world suffer from addiction problems and they don't go on mass murder. Sprees right, that's my point: yeah yeah, there's something unique about and I think that's why people are so fascinated by people that not only serial killers, I mean you, don't have to kill a bunch of people to be. Do you know to terrorize people? You say there are terrorists, there are people have traumatized people and their never
the same for the rest of their lives, and your book is not just talking about murder and serial killing. Talking about violent crime and the trends that are there, so why. Did you: what did you see in terms of the most disturbing trend? You talked about murder rates. Skyrocket from everything. I've read: they seem to be downplaying that violent Murder is down from traditionally say one thousand nine hundred and ninety, or so tell us what you did find the most disturbing trends in your research for this book, but it gets trend that seems to be skyrocketing. A crossed. America is violent crimes where juvenile offenders are
for one being blamed for it, juveniles or taking away from the the typical vandalism and stealing and their committing horrific crimes such as rape, murder, all the way down to killing their own parents and their children?. And what's the trend in terms of the perpetrators getting younger of the crimes, more savage, Is it more a pack mentality, ganging mentality of those in those trends as well? I don't really quite think the gang mentality is to quite plan for this. It is true, the gang is still do as good, and they are quite bad. In this case, I I do believe they're getting younger children to be in
Use of murder all the way down to the age, those dates an example. You have two hundred and twelve year olds in Waukesha WI, who have just recently been arrested and charged with attempted murder for stabbing there from nineteen times, because they were addicted to some cult behavior. But again, I do not believe that this is gang related. I just believe that parents are not involved in their children's lives as much as they used to be there. Not There for their translate, he used to be an juvenile to getting a common sense that committing these crimes are almost a way of showing who they are, what they are capable of and they're, not really taking into consideration the consequences of their actions.
Yeah you talk about how you're talking about that. Even als? Also, you have did extensive research regarding juveniles and talked about the Jew, then I'll spends more time than the adult that there's been changes in the judicial system as well that have not helped the the juvenile as well tell us a little bit more about all of the things or some more of the things that you found terms of what you went in here. You you, we wouldn't of us, assumed any of this, so tell us what you did really find regarding the differences now as as previously with regarding juveniles. Well we're the juvenile court system being
As long as it really is, it's only roughly about one hundred and fourteen years old, the differences in the penalty phrase of the crimes they had committed has changed drastically, since they went from reform homes to play seeing juveniles in juvenile detention centers. The problem that has been found with this is the juveniles, do spend
more time on average in a correctional facility than their adult counterparts such as a fourteen year old, gets in trouble for raping a fellow high school students and they get placed in the juvenile detention center until the age of twenty one where they had then moved to an adult prison where they will sit on average. Another four to six years before they were are released on probation. Their adult counterparts can sit anywhere from no jail time at all, with probation or supervision all the way up to him, a max of twenty five years to life, depending on the aggravating factor. But six times out of ten the juvenile is going to spend.
At least three to five more years in prison, then an adult that had committed the same crime and the programming that could possibly possibly rehabilitate someone that will say that could be rehabilitated based on community support, and just getting to them. I guess young right at least that's the rare cases love this anyway and that's the idea. But what about what Where is the programming go? Is it? Is it prior to our prioritized towards the youth offender, with the with the distinct
Reasoning behind that to intervene at this young age, tell us about programming. Well, through my research, I have concluded that they do have rehabilitation programs for juveniles, both within the juvenile detention center, in correctional facilities and in the community, but was a place to juveniles in the community rehabilitation programs, it's more more. The burden is put on the parents in the actual juvenile themselves, whereas in the correctional facility the juvenile has to take responsibility for those actions. And they must complete the rehabilitation program in order to be released right, you said to the judges, have lost their discretionary abilities too wet to to have discretion on which juvenile.
Would warrant in cases of murder and serious rape and robbery where they would be put up to adult court now set from. Is that from sort of a some of the mandatory minimum and restricted Of sentence ng that strict sentence NG with guidelines tell us how that comes to be. Yeah, the new truth in sentencing laws allow judges in jurisdictions. Two sentence: juveniles that have committed crimes such as rape, aggravated assault, murder and stuff. Got to be tried as an adult which then allows them to try them and send them to the MAX, as opposed to where they're charged as a juvenile
they would sit for a longer doing up this early and then they would be released back into the community where they would require undergoing treatment and had the litigation services through the community. What else do you did you find with your research each with juveniles. It was particularly disturbing. I think the the biggest thing that looks disturbingly it through researching juveniles is the manner in which they are treated? They are almost treated as an academic or a plug. That's going through the court system that needs to be dealt with, but they
don't want to deal with it on the level of dealing with the child. They just want to deal with it on the level of them committing the same crime as an adult without taking to regard the juveniles and more rehabilitative than adults ours later on in. I also think that with juvenile they have last Sunsoar track. If you will of what to do with them, because the crimes were getting more severe there, starting at a younger age and the really losing track of what punishment and or read habilitative services really work in order to prevent them from Continuing on with their mentality later in life What have you concluded at least
would you address this? What would you address first, and how would you address it? I am a big supporter of taking juveniles and looking at their circumstances and the going on a case by case basis. I am a big supporter of maximum penalties for juveniles, who have committed serious felony such as murder and rape, whereas I believe rehabilitation should really be at the forefront of juvenile punishment for lower level crimes as opposed just placing them within the correctional facility, where I feel that they are not getting the help that they really deserve and or need to prevent them from continually on the same path that they were on.
When you talk about you, talk about the disintegration of the family unit as well from previous, where two people in a household to parents and not to say that, that's you know there are families that have split up amicably and there's a they share the care of their kids. But more often than not? It's it's more of a sad story of tragedy and and broken homes and and people affected negatively by this so You say this is a contributing factor to juvenile crime as well, and if that is the case, then, we already have. The disintegrating disappearing family unit, then you have these people with these heinous crimes at a young age? how then, can those people be rehabilitated? If they have to go, then back into ideally back to our family unit back to high school back to school, back in with their their family,
if there really wasn't any anyway. So realistically, my question is: how do you The address this is it really possible. I mean how? How would you again? How would you address that, and I think that's where the case to case basis really comes into play if he is human health came from a broken home? They don't have a support system; they don't really have a family and they're not involved in the community. That is going to be next to impossible in order to rehabilitate them back into the community, but on the flip side, placing them into a
correctional facility is gonna- be almost as dangerous as part in the back in the situation that they derive from to begin with, and I think that's where the child protective services and it really comes into play because sometimes they are able to rehabilitate these juveniles into a situation where I'm into a subsequent home has actually proved to be beneficial. However, this does not happen. One hundred percent of the time, but it has does your mouth- can be reached at the did it into a new family as long as they are given the sports with them that they need not. Everybody has as much face in it as other people. But psychology and psychologists are a big part of the courts. Now. And realizing that they're bigger part in society itself and
mental illnesses, shed a little bit of its stigma and her a lot of people that are at least under some kind of doctors care? For some kind of you know, I hate to use the phrase mental illness so What about psychology? What did you find in your research? Did you find anything there look into anything about organic brain disease or some of the causation of some of this? Did you did you see any? What was the sort of some conclusions or something that you did see in terms of psychology of this and its effect in terms of rehabilitation, possibly. Psychology really does come into play when we're talking about juvenile offenders and there in the rehabilitative process. One of the biggest problems is the juveniles do not receive the amount of mental.
Me behavioral health does they require, whether it be because their parents do not notice their behavior. They do not want to get involved for this year, but I'll just hides the behavior from those involved in the lies and because they don't receive the behavioral health that they require. Their behavior typically gets worse and as they go on, they're not really sure how to handle it, and so they take it out in a very negative way and the behavior health problems they can oftentimes suffer from. Is ADHD Archer from Ask Burgers Honda
Reporters schizophrenic out borderline personality disorder, and they can also suffer from post, traumatic stress disorder and a wide array of other widely on diagnose. You have an old they're all disorders, such as bipolar. And what's the solution? There I mean medication, I mean really. Can I mean there's hardly enough psychologist to speak one on one with everyone, let alone the troubled use right exactly in the
at this point. There really is no solution. The only thing that we can do as and members of the community is. We can make others aware of the growing mental health issues and juveniles, and we could. We can help with recognizing the red flag for the warning signs that the issue of it out often times get out and help them so that they are able to obtain it, the never a health services that they need in a timely manner to prevent her from getting worse. I find it quite interesting too. You don't hear this word too often maladaptive behavior. You could tell us what that really means. I kind of have an idea, but also I wanted to ask about how you was in
see what you say about. It almost seems like a division between the certain kids that are that have that strong family unit in direction, and it really succumbing to a lot of the other things and haven't been subjected to a lot of the other thing. Things like divorce and violence and drug abuse, alcohol abuse and worse and sexual and physical abuse that you're. Almost it is almost sort of a cautionary tale in terms of that they will. You say that kids will, Sir only encounter some kind of maladaptive. Behavior tell us a little bit about what how you talk about in the book. About sort of This cautionary thing about what kids can expect out there. Well, first, it's important to understand. Watch
our gasket behavior really is, and it's actually it is the functional non productive behavior that one well engage in for number of reasons. Such is exciting and other types, such as depression now doesn't here is typically anything that is not socially normal. This can include attempting suicide sexual from unless you allergy it can. Also, include. Kerman, basically other forms of behavior that one would typically not see in children that come from well adjusted homes. And then so was I right in perceiving you sort of see of division between those people that have had this
maiden generations of this sort of behave? You're sort of accepted, to a certain extent and the other people who have not even. Don't even aware of it. Actually yeah It is important also to remember the children that do come from well adjusted homes that haven't dealt with divorce and crime, abuse and stuff like that, can engage in after behaviors. While it is not surely see And individuals who come from dysfunctional and broken homes? No No, no, certainly not, but it's just the the odds against you just become the it stack up a little bit more. That's all exactly. Yeah, that's the thing about true crime, people are really part of a horrifying aspect of it is the is. It is the boy next door. It is the bill that great family and and that kid you thought, really loved his parents, or vice versa, or
a loving husband and wife and So one never knows that's: what's the really shocking part of violent crime, isn't it exactly now we Didn't talk so much about forensic disciplines, but what do you see on the horizon is truly one of the more it seems that DNA is progressing again with, used to be able to not have be able to take dna from sources like the today they're using smaller and smaller samples and be able to get dna from? sources, twenty five or thirty years or long past, where they thought they might get something from that but other than the DNA develop There are some developments in DNA that did. You did find let our audience know.
But what are these sort of the more interesting bright spot in sort of forensic these days, some of the most interesting advancements in bricks that have recently been developed through the use of three d alt, three d: autopsies, which allows scientists to autopsy the body via kind of like a big MRI machines without risking the the sample or decomposing the sample by having their typically cut into them. So they're able to save or print.
Serve the the body for further testing or further use by use of the 3d autopsies, and how common is that? that they used it successfully in the prosecution of cases or as it stood up to the kind of scrutiny is what I'm saying I can't see where we come from, but just give it a defense lawyer a few minutes, as is it past that litmus test so far at this point, three autopsies has not been used in America. At this point it was developed by a group of scientist in another country. I believe it was Switzerland and at this point it's still in the building stages, but they have shown where it would be much more productive. It would save
our cost and it would also provide scientists and or members of the court, a way of showing the members of the four and the jury um the autopsy in person. Instead of having to rely on results on a sheet of paper. Yes, are there any because what I there is another sort of myth. Is that the rent sickly was my observation? I'm not fingerprinting because it there's been a few advancements in terms of taking fingerprints off of difficult sources gun powder gun powder residue, but the the for the other one was the I witness testimony has been luckily for the DNA has come to the rescue.
Because now we know a lot more about eyewitness testimony and how people respond. Sometimes trying to recall who might be their perpetrator so tell us about any one of the forensics, because I know that you touch on one where we have an idea that that is a accurate, but over the years that is proven to not be an acceptable or reliable forensic tool? Yeah forensic psychology. Just have actually showing that a good portion of witnesses that have testified to crime are not able to accurately and fully.
Reiterate these statements that they had made, which leads to false identification, and it said that approximately about one percent of death row inmates are falsely executed and more falsely convicted of a crime and a good portion of the time. It is because of misidentification for when the Now when you looked at motivation, violent crime. We on this program, I have discussed the cycle path person without a conscience, somehow that never really developed that empathy, jet Jeffrey Dahmer, was one of those people. So don't blame my parents. I just want to do this.
It's one to do it. So what did you any conclusions that you could find in all of this research in terms of a central motivation for people that would do the heinous violent crime over and over again? I firmly believe that individuals that are capable of committing these crimes really black a lot of self control within their own.
Lives and that they do tend to psycho. Pass themselves tend to stay away from blaming other people. They do blame themselves for their own actions, and that may not be because they actually believe that they committed the crime and may just be because they want to be the forefront of their own attention. They don't want the attention plastered to their parents like Dahmer. He got verbally angry when they tried to blame his parents for his behavior, and that's because Dahmer wanted the attention on himself. He didn't want the attention to be sprayed towards his parents, friends, work childhood the way he grew up. He wanted the attention on himself. Well, what are you with that? Because they are you know incredibly narcissistic and ego.
There is an ego in terms of- and I mean you know- maybe Dahmer- isn't the best example, but there's many of his contemporaries that are great examples of guys, just reveled in their crimes. Afterwards, at the love, the lime light the spotlight, they really enjoyed the court cases they really perform so yeah, enough to agree with you there? What did you find in terms of money? Is such a complex character? You, well compared to some of the guys like Gacy and Dahmer, he seems downright more sophisticated. What did you find in terms of Bundy's center little motivation because he could have got away his escaped escape a couple times, he maybe could have hidden.
People noted it as a compulsion. But what did you see in looking at Monday? What was Gandhi? He was extremely intelligent. He tried to go through college for psychology and for law. He did end up working out, but it was not because he wasn't smart enough to do the work. It was more because he had self doubts on himself with Bundy. He could have absolutely have gotten away. He escape home turban he managed to stay away, for I believe it was two year period before he was picked up. I do believe it, the compulsion took over and he had to keep going. He had to keep
you are what he was going to feel control and was self you adults a life of being rejected, no matter which way you want whether it's with parents girlfriend school, he was always rejected the longer. He stayed away the longer that compulsion, the pop star and the more he had to commit crimes and do what he had do you I feel like he was like control, because you can handle being out of control because he won. Right back to the whole rejection process? Did you find in looking at Bundy and then looking at less serious, violent criminals such as rapists? And then, looking at the far less serious will say: violet, criminal juvenile. Is there some common link in behavior between.
Do they share something, those those things that are capable of the most serious of crimes.
I do believe the mass murderers serial killers, rapists and even sex offenders they do tend to hold a common trait is but most of system and they're in his physical way of thinking, really comes into play that prevents them from emphasizing a lowly working out. People like there there are human beings. One is that they're just the same way as they are? The nurses with them only comes out, and it really takes over there where thinking and they really find that they have to commit these crimes in order to show that they're in control that the have the control over other people and that well, basically, it it just comes out
aren't you a control thing. You know what sex offenders they have to be in control of their victims or brief is they have to be in control of their victims? Serial killers are in control of your victims and even with mouse, Murs Wilder not really out killing people, they kill people all in one all at one time, without taking a break there. Still in control of the situation and attention is another aspect that they crave an with being a controlled. Obviously they receive the A10 they're. Looking for how are you, I agree with you, and, and many of the experts will as well, but when you get the Bundy going back to the graves to visit the graves and commit necrophilia, is it your limit? You know I mean just in terms of I understand, and I just think that it almost seems like some people are beyond our pre of what could happen
under any circumstances. I understand control, you know, I didn't really want to be known as a necrophile, but this compulsion was to go back and have sex with the dead it could. You know he said he could have delved into world necrophilia simply because he felt that he needed to help control then fictive even in death. Just like Dahmer had stated that the reason why he ate some of his victims is because he felt like he then had control of the victim and that he would forever have control of the victim. Is he had ingested, the body parts yeah Dennis Nilsen wanted the company and Dahmer wanted the people to stay and yeah incredible and Gacy had him under his
floorboards the base, and I think he has a very interesting example of that is, while mainly because he had to wear his victims, yeah yeah, that's the absolutely so Through this all this research, I how hard was it? I guess you know what asking But that's interested in this. If it was, you know, affected them, but was there anything that These are still optimism that the human that you can under stand this sort of behavior and that there is some.
There is some hope that this kind of behaviour can reverse somehow or no, but then my honest opinion, I'm not I'm not positive. I think, as a race or as a society, we we can only do so much and until I mean it really it really just comes down to until we see one another as being equals and we look at each other. Like we're human beings, the violence is just going to. Continue. Violence has been a part of the human race since the beginning of time, and if you look throughout history, one thing remains the same: silence, is getting worse. The crimes are getting worse, human beings are, being humanized before one ever reason, and it all. It all comes down to the fact that everybody wants to be number one,
In your research you're based in the United States, am I correct yeah in America. I know some statistics and I looked up for this interview as well America. What the! they say. Is that it's hard to compare, compare violent crime in America because of the some of the the charges the if show criminal charges, designations and say, for example, in Canada. What? be aggravated. Assault might be three different, separate potential charges in Canada. So they're hard to be a so when they do compare violent crime which uses, a more
a reliable factor and that factor or statistic is murder, and so America has three times the murder rate of Canada and sometimes up to five times the murder rate of. Countries like France and Ireland and England, ITALY yeah? Then you know, and countries with a fair relation to I mean America's much bigger and unless you going to say that a big country means that means murder has to increase two or three or fourfold. Um What do you attribute as the number? One reason why America seems to be not seems to be factually is two or three or. Four times more violent than any other
country in the world except South Africa, which is incredible and but really it it really is much. More violent than almost any other country in the world? Why would that be? I can you come out to the sentencing guidelines that legislation that legislators part in the play the amount of prison time that violent criminals? Well, you see, is in the United States is drastically to Finally, as the crime get worse, the amount of individuals spending life in prison or receiving the death penalty are drastically declining, whereas a number of years ago they would receive an automatic life sentence for committing murder, but now you can walk away from murder charge with simple probation.
And that's were it not for it really why they need to up the ante on the sentencing guidelines and they really need to put into place punishment for the crimes that are committed because basically Americans are no longer afraid of the justice system. Is there any Are you going to put any weight at all, because I mean it's? We talk about this in Canada, because one of the issues, one of them The conversations in Canada is that you know is a violent place in America's under control because of their guns, and they have no gun, control and easy access to guns six times, as many handguns will say, for example, as Canadians three times as many rifles, but the kind of weaponry can find the US is maybe not unique or exclusive to the US, but like a country like Canada,
there again. Canada is sort of the same murder rate as France in iron. Having a little bit, maybe a little bit higher, but I what's a sensitive issue by I'm sitting here on the other side of the border are guns. Party. Your reason that you gotta rethink some of this I mean I don't want to get into. Big debate on the constitution- or you know, have a gun, and if I would've had a gun, then then another guy with a gun. I would have killed that guy with a gun or protected myself from the guy with the gun, but is there? Is it a stretch to say that guns might be part of this reason for such a violent, seemingly violent society? I think guns have uh a good portion of the reason why Americans are so violent
mainly because guns are so easy to get lost country, whether you're a child adult a felon. It doesn't matter if the criminal wants a gun they're going to get a gun, like I reside in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin has some of the most lenient gun laws in the country you can purchase a gun at a gun, show no license. No, nothing and it's completely legal and with log,
like that it becomes very dangerous because anybody in there brother can receive a gun from another person, and it's not even being tracked so authorities don't even know that these dangerous individuals have weapons. Weapons were being smuggled into the country and in an alarming rate such as drugs and the government doesn't step in, doesn't do anything to stop the growing gun problem within our country, because Americans really put their foot down and they hold to their card. Pollution and their amendment rights in order to bear arms to protect themselves, and that's really where the problem lies. So, yes, I do believe that the guy oh and garden problem in our country does contribute to a lot of the growing crime in our country as well.
Yeah. I wouldn't blame the gun, but I would blame the lack of regulation. It just makes sense in terms of sanity? I I'm I'm not a big girl flagger here in Canada. We do everything right, but you just start look at the hard statistics it's not like is. He was a a things are polite when I polite were via. I'm living in the murder capital of Canada and trust me, it's not polite here, and there's murder. There's drugs, you could say: well, there's drugs in America, there's drugs here same drugs, there's a mafia mile, say: mafia Same gangs or same gang mentality, you know I'll kill you here for initiation, probably too so You can only attributed to guns themselves in terms of that lack of regulation. Loopholes at he's gun shows, and you know, in in the same. Lack of regulation in terms of a guy gets you
It gets out of a nut house after ten years and still no check no background check. No, you can't wait three days and you get this guy a gun. Now I know, there's state the state there's differences, but I would say that this is certainly has to be. A major contributing factor is Is that not to say take away guns, because in this country you have the right to have guns, lots of 'em? You the collector. You want to shoot. You want to go to long kinds of gun. You know bands of guns, hunters people that like to shoot, so So that's all I can say, and I go ahead didn't say it. It really comes down to the way people treat their weapons if they're going to use their weapons appropriately, using for self defense using for hunting, collecting and so
with that. Then there's no problem, but when they're, using as a means of control power and to ultimately take another human's life, that's when the power of gun control really needs to come into. Why won't harp on that? But I mean that I know that you know that I can't deny something like that. I know it's. A political, hot, potato big issue, I mean after the sand Sandy Hook massacre I mean incredible. I thought for sure that that would be your pivotal moment where there would be some movement, not drastic, but some that's all. I thought it would happen that there would be some movement because of that event- and you know it happened. So I thought well. I don't know what will be the catalyst for a change in the US, but.
I think that do an expensive did it come to the heading in the Ar15 in the high caliber weapons. Well, that's something that it did. It did take somebody the bigger guns out of the hands of violent criminals to an extent yeah yeah. Something happened from it as a result So the this book took you in how long was this entire research for this book and when did it come and and if people are interested in book other than Amazon. Where were they might be able to get a copy of the book, and how would they be able to contact you if they feel so inclined the.
Actual research of the entire book took me about six years, so, roughly between two thousand nine and March of two thousand fourteen it was published on April. Second, two thousand fourteen, through a light switch for us. The book can be purchased on Amazon, Barnes and noble the light switch press website and as of right now those are the only three clicks with the purchase of Do you do you do the Facebook if people are interested in contacting new commenting, give any feedback or anything like that? Yes, I actually have it. This book page called true crime with Manda Seton and that's s c, a t, o n for yeah.
The individual right about this moment, and so were you also have another book also about forensic forensic disciplines that that you published last year, minor correct. I did yes, I publish that, so I could re write it and I integrated all that information into this book. John, I see ok, I got it ok great well, I want to thank you very much for coming on and talking about violent crimes in America was very interesting conversation and very provocative book. Is this some into Sting facts about juveniles that I had no idea, and I thought I'd read quite a bit about what was going on so interesting take. That you have on some of the solutions and where we might best focus our enerji. He's at the very least if resources are limited, which they are. So. Thank you very much. Thank you again for inviting me
Thank you, Amanda listening to Amanda Seton violent crimes in America. Thank you. Man have a good night. If you own your car for a while, or maybe you got a great deal on a used vehicle that feels Newtie ill triple a has a vehicle protection plan that fits your needs and your budget, let's face it unexpected. An expensive repairs. Can pop up. That's why people. A vehicle protection plans provide comprehensive coverage for maintenance and repair to take some of the risk out of driving a classic, find out more about our vehicle protection plans at Triplea, dot, com, slash vehicle plan and now
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-05.