In 1964, a band of motorcyclists mysteriously appeared in Milwaukee. Over the course of the next decade, the Outlaws Motorcycle Club (OMC) became synonymous with acts of intimidation and violence. In the ruthless world of renegade bikers, the OMC’s Milwaukee chapter became known as the “Wrecking Crew.” You Gotta Be Dirty: The Outlaws Motorcycle Club in & Around Wisconsin, examines the evolution of outlaw motorcycle clubs in the United States. From 1947 to the early 1960s, the influence of rogue riders, the one-percent of motorcyclists living outside the law — spread from the west coast and in to America’s heartland. In Wisconsin, investigators linked members of the Outlaws to at least eleven murders. Four of the innocent persons killed were women and two were elderly. Three children also lost their lives: A fifteen-year-old boy was killed by an explosive device; an infant perished in an arson fire; and a ten-year-old boy was executed vis-à-vis a gunshot to the head. During the tumultuous 1990s, the Outlaws orchestrated a guerrilla-style offensive in a quest to beat back the expansion of the world’s largest one-percent motorcycle club — the Hells Angels (HAMC). During this period, the HAMC began courting the Hell’s Henchmen Motorcycle Club, a group with chapters in Chicago, Rockford, and South Bend, Indiana. The Hells Angels’ bold move into northern Illinois touched-off a seven-year conflict that was exacerbated by beatings, bombings, and shootings. "As a former outlaw biker investigator,” wrote author and retired Milwaukee Police Department Detective Larry Powalisz, “I participated in the investigations of several of the incidents documented in this well-researched book. This history of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club shines a bright light on the one-percent motorcycle subculture." YOU GOTTA BE DIRTY:The Outlaws Motorcycle Club in and around Wisconsin-Michael Grogan
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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In one thousand, nine hundred and sixty four a band motorcyclist mysteriously appeared in Milwaukee over the course of the next decade, the outlaws. Motorcycle club became synonymous with acts of intimidation and violence in the ruthless world of Renegade bikers the Omc's Milwaukee chapter became known as the wrecking crew. You got to be dirty. The outlaws mota, Cycle club in and around Wisconsin exam, some of the evolution of outlaw motorcycle clubs in the United States from nineteen. Forty seven to the early 1960s. The in of rogue riders the one percent of this living outside the law spread from the West Coast and into America's Heartland, in Wisconsin investigators link members of the outlaws to at least eleven murders. Four of the innocent persons killed were women and two were elderly.
Three children also boss their lives. A fifteen year old boy was killed, mine explosive device. An infant perished in an arson fire in a ten. Little boy was executed visa. Be a gunshot to the head during that time, which was 1990s the outlaws Orkest waited a guerilla style offensive in a quest to beat back to expansion of the world's largest one percent motorcycle club, the Hells Angels In this period, the Hells angels began Quart in the Hell's henchman motorcycle club, a group with Chap she's in Chicago Rockford and South Bend in the Hells angel. Bold move into Northern Illinois touched off a seven year, conflict that was exacerbated by beatings, bombings and shootings. As a former lot biker investigator author and retired Milwaukee Police Department, detective Larry Powell, it's wrote I participated in the investigations of several of the incidents documented in this well researched book
history of the outlaws motorcycle club. Shines a bright light on the one percent motorcycle club subculture. The book they were free, during this afternoon is you gotta, be dirty. The outlaws motorcycle club in and around Wisconsin with my special gas journal Justin an author, Michael Grogan, welcome to the probe thank you very much for granted interview Michael Grogan, thanks for help. Yeah. I know Dan. I appreciate that talking about the book with your listeners. Thank you. Much. This is a fascinating book about a very, very in interesting organization, to say the least. What It's not use this service. Sorry go ahead. I spent about one slash two years:
The information write the book, which is that extension of my master's thesis. So that's what brought you to this book, but why did you want to do this. What was the impetus for you wanting to? Do you got to be dirty So then your masters thesis. What are you from this area? Tell us Why this was important to you and outlaws in Wisconsin was important to to write. Well, I grew up in southeastern Wisconsin Anybody who grows up in this area is familiar with the outlaws motorcycle club. We we see him at Church Festival mix at races, and so, although I saw the group around
I wasn't particularly that knowledge of what some of the things that happened in the sixties and seventies and eighties with the club. What I was looking for a topic to write a master's thesis that I was actually exploring hospital riots, racial right that have been walking in the mid to late nineteen sixties and I interviewed the sector of who's actually participated in Fort Lauderdale and during that riot, and he told me about the outlaws motorcycle club about how there's never been a comprehensive history about the club written with this group in southeastern Wisconsin. He had several boxes of information about the club and a lot of institutional knowledge, and so, as I began looking into his information other information, I thought make it excellent topic. One of the things now in history circles is Kim for groups have been under represented throughout history.
Ansol trishal history might look at diplomats in governments and politics lot of trends in the history right now. Look at groups that are called cultural histories and certainly the one percent no culture is such a group, and nobody really is historical circles, has written much both and I found other historian. Doctor Randy would be at Texas Tech, suede written something about the motorcycle game subculture, but it from Skansen in the Midwest really. No other historian is really explored. The club I'm. Now you open with this, and maybe you can tell us as you do in the book, the importance of Milwaukee for our international listeners in terms of Harley Davidson Milwaukee, one percent clubs, an wiscconsin in terms of one percent bike clubs before we talk about
as you do in the introduction where you have. We open up the with the leave, very much action, packed courthouse, Milwaukee Courthouse where we have Todd Life girl, that's on the witness stand and talking about covering cillement, so first tell us a little bit about Milwaukee as you do, and before we talk about Todd Life, girl and a witness and walkie courthouse In- and this is how you open you gotta- be dirty, Sir Paul Walkie, our walkie, probably Davis, and is made more walk. Yet all of motorcycle clubs, which are the one percent motorcyclist. I live outside the law. Their by laws require them to have in American, made motorcycle or Bmw they're not allowed to have any japanese bikes or any other foreign type of bikes. Most. The pride and joy of these clubs obviously started the Harley Davidson so culture
We will have familiar with Milwaukee Harley Davidson was started in Milwaukee in nineteen. Oh three hundred and ninety it? Is it reading this financial problems and was bailed out by President Reagan, since the 1980s, the companies really flourished and become the pride and joy of the Milwaukee area. So in one thousand nine hundred and sixty four, when the club we had Milwaukee old Milwaukee Gypsy Outlaws and they had a cold chapter in Louisville KY, all the Louisville, Gypsy out lies in August, one thousand nine hundred and sixty four. They went to Springfield IL for a race had a meeting with the. Outlaws Motorcycle club in Chicago and three groups merged to form the outlaws nations was initially three clubs and, as such, the outlaws motorcycle club get a foothold and Milwaukee, which is the Houma Harley Davidson. They talk about life, Kerr and, as I mentioned, he's a witness. You open the book with the men being a witness at a Milwaukee courthouse, and you say,
that he says on the stand. We were never killers before we joined the outlaws motorcycle club and he talked about them. Moral code of the outlaw biker he testified and so tell us what he testifies to what is he Talk about an what is he testify to about the outlaws motorcycle club explaining very much so the title of your book Todd was a really a two bit or in a criminal suspects. This person around, which was being heard, the Urbeats holders, with the prospect of probate and eventually a member of the Outlawz more so well. The RV, an Arby's moniker name, stands for really violent. Yeah and so which how did Harvey we're doing where they were selling drugs in their trafficking, stolen motorcycle parts specifically tide with more or less doing that, and one instance
like for actually burglarized the police headquarters where evidence was stored, steal the evidence that crime you committed from the evidence locker another instance holders and pull life occur that later was trafficking, drugs old, another man. Ten thousand dollars an powers offered to have the outlaws committed hit against the guide. Killam that was too much for Tati, said I'd rather deal with the guy. But that indicated the meetings in the court was that how we all laws would take care of their friends. They would cover form and concealed the evidence in the criminal justice system for them. Now you talk about it. Also in nineteen. Ninety six nineteen party me, nineteen sixty six original founder of the out, allows Motorcycle Club Milwaukee chapter Job John Business,
explain the rule of the club to the press as you got to be dirty and you also talk about two really important matters at that time. The governments response to the outlaws and and their appearance in Southwestern Wisconsin so tell us what the initial response was by everyone, including law enforcement, to the outlaws coming into Wisconsin having a presence well. In order to look at this, you need to put things in context in the 1960s, which was the year of Vietnam,
the Euro, the new left rising up in the United States. It's still a walkie police department, in conjunction with the FBI and the FBI, did program called Co Intel Pro, which, with their color intelligence program in the Milwaukee Police Department, had a group called the special assignment squad which wasn't effect. Milwaukee police department's version of Co Intel Pro. It basically kept an eye on some person, groups or groups that were close to notes with groups like that. So when the outlaws came onto the scene in the early 1960s, the head of the special assignment slide didn't really view. The outlaws is fitting into the category that Meredith surveillance Based on the guidelines of special assignments, what if you'd be out was more or less this to school here, the public disorder. They were kind of you just told military, veteran body type groups in the legal
best way to keep it. I am, and they have a tactical squad. It was being formed the time, keep tabs in the club and suppressed their criminal activities and that's more from Milwaukee Police Department's perspective. That's time, the way they monitored the club from their inception in nineteen sixty four. Until about one thousand nine hundred and seventy four and then things changed now you say. One event in particular: really changed the game or game changer in terms of a paper boy was killed by an explosive device. For an outlaw rival, when was that and tell us a little bit more about what happened in this incident. Well, in the in the early nineteen seventies, the outlaws were process consolidating their power with other one percent clubs in the state. The words because
in the States- Trivia, one percent motorcycle club and in essence they had their way and the saints in the savage seven. They pretty much dropped her patch and some members were joined the outlaws, otherwise that clubs would be this and it, but one motorcycle group in particular that happens, devils refused to cave in now. If you look at the culture of the outlaw motorcycle, clubs, similar to street gangs. They have colors and the outlaws colors are black and white the colors of the outlet's major rival, the Hells angels are red and white. Will the Heavens Devils wore a red and white patched if you look at their name? Obviously, it's in typical for that to hells angels, so the outlaws rather skeptical that the Heavens Deviled might be really four letter for the Hell's angels movements in Wisconsin in the 1970s. The outlaws continued. The targets- Heavens Devils to Heavens Devils refused to after patch? It's? Finally, one day the outlaws did a home invasion
robbery on four heavens devils numbers and took their club colors and rob them of small amount of money. Well, the one percent sub quotes you're, never supposed to go to police to solve issues. Those issues are still asleep involved between members of the clubs, but they had his devil president. They can't Milwaukee Police Department, members of the all wise arrested for invasion robbery,
indeed, from other trials were probably waiting to hurt you all three counted against Heavens Devils or night affair boxing. Some guys window is shotgun blast. Another man's window in this four or five levels were targeted and still doubles remains they weren't willing to drop their past and the case proceeded to trial and then, in September, two members also found guilty in priest businesses, prison sentences. Two months later, I November fifth, one thousand nine hundred and seventy four pip boy. Loader entities are fifteen years old boy went to Wilbur Wright senior high school use, we just thought about six hundred o'clock in the morning. 83Rd She come walkies your westside, the nice blue collar areas, not yeah that he's walking this route. He sees a package wrapped as a Christmas gift on top of the Oldsmobile,
initially thinks that I'm, you know somebody might have forgot the package on top of that the homeowner an walked into the home. So apparently he was going to pick up the package to put it on the steps when you picked it up and exploded. The box was filled with TNT, Anstalt spent welding rods, and it was a devastating blast from the detectives that I talked to there are at the scene. They said that these were hardcore detectives. Krusty law enforcement people investigate its most serious crimes, Milwaukee, and they said it was the worst crime scene they've ever seen that when they got there from the blast and blowing a socket out of his eye and see his face to quite will still burning when they arrived in the crime state, he was killed instantaneously over two hundred wounds to his body,
and you know this is a really gruesome see. You can imagine that this scene covered a couple blocks. One of the detectives interviewed interviewed. His name is Roger Hinton schooler. He said he and his partner were doing the canvas of a whole block to the e from the blast and he noticed something strange sitting. Atop a bush hedge. This partner stepped up steps to get a look. It was one of the paper voice. Fingers flew over a block away from the blast. This last changed everything, because not from that point on the Milwaukee Police Department's command staff no longer looked like looked at. The outlaws is simply facilitators of public disorder, deleted them as organized crime, and they were very violent, threaten the safety of all more options. You can imagine this, like the mafia, the mafia is more like blood in blood out the post Nordstrom. They don't typically bother you unless they have an issue with you. When a little kid,
Boy gets blown up by a bomb. Entire city obviously, is fearful that this type of violence now there's going to be a lot of collateral damage during this feud in the Milwaukee police from really ratcheted up the pressure. At that time, Can I change the whole dynamic between the police department and the club. Now you talk about this Is that this grisly murder made law enforcement apply more pressure, and's members of law enforcement found themselves subject to threats, an act of violence and and you say some of the rank and file police say sometimes operated outside the law. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, all the police response with responsibilities with the outlaws were doing. I talked to one police officer who said that he would use a high profile detective. You just made detective that was in the mid 80s. He talked to one of the tenants we investigated the outlaws. He said it was fearful that the outlawed
gonna start killing police officers, and he pulled with instance, were at three hundred o'clock in the morning one morning since I don't live in an area by the airport It was on a side street thirty flight residential area. This door rings three hundred am doorbell rings. He's off duty goes through the door, it's a member of the Alt LOS. You said that you simply Lawson was looking for directions. Another instance detectives of the violent crimes, division of Criminal Investigation, Bureau, Milwaukee Police Department, they're having a picnic in awhile. Don't park in Milwaukee? They notice that he ought laws were there taking on their license plates and conducting surveillance of them and their families, so these officers felt that y'all allows for obvious trying to intimidate them, so that was one Insta but in other instances they always were getting very brazen at one point and in the mid 70s nineteen, seventy five more after the more
officers at a tavern kind of agree, part of Milwaukee. Apparently some members of the outlaws are there: they exchanged insults and, as the officer leaves the outlaw's follow him. Eight bump the back this far when the officer gets out Yahoo's feet the officer so bad that break his jaw and break his eye socket on the officer, gets back in the car files. The outlaws in it right outside one of the Rockies police districts of the Southside. You the author forces, the outlaws band off the road and one of the on duty officers that station comes over to assist the police officer. That effect the rest of the all odds. Please I'm walking the time his name was Harold Briar Herald Briar at Milwaukee. Either you love him or hate up. If you love law and order, your love, Terrelle, Pryor, If you're, a member of the counter calls you didn't like well prior, was smart enough to new, but this time with the outlaws are up to is after the ants dead body, so we actually assigned an officer watch the home of the officer who was beat make sure that all
spin retaliate and her name was Susan or it'll. Just a twenty three year old, relatively new police officer. Now she was darting Bartletts House jobs who is beaten by the outlaws in the S, a man came by shop or squad car twice almost killed her. She exit the squad, I pursued the man who shot her, but the man got into a vehicle instead off in the interim another alarm force master rosabelle lieutenant in the suburban department had information that they always are planning on. Blowing outlaws are planning on blowing up a police station, and so all this all this stuff was heating up as the police ratchet up the pressure to investigate the ants that murder you. All laws are also ratcheting up the pressure
and then in about a year and a half a year later, you can see all these problems coming to the forefront the outlaws were at a strip. Club walk is West side in a confrontation with the other bad in a large contingent of police officers responded, including the tax will force the unit was you did that kept tabs on the outlook? and when they got there, they arrested. Three members of the Outlawz. One of his name is Roger lions. Roger Lyons was involved in a relatively minor scuffle needed to fight with the police. Some witnesses said he saw police officer swing in her batons, use later conveyed out
show wagon and taken to a district station where he appeared Non responsive and was rushed to the hospital and died in police custody more or less, and so you can see how all these effects the causal effect of them racking up. The pressure and the outlaws refusal to give in and in fact wanting to intimidate the investigators to back off starting danced investigation, cause the police to kind of operate in the periphery, and you could argue with outlaws, will argue that actually told Roger. But they held. There was a struggle before the We've got there and the input Jury determined that it could not have. Then, if I who actually killed lions and but the da said that if it was a citizen who killed them, citizen committed homicide if it was a police officer killed in the police, use excessive force. But to the states never improve it, but he did die of head trauma. Now you say at the same time, though, that- and this is a this-
cities in the 70s and continued for quite awhile, was that at the same time that the police were being threatened and. Maybe resorting to the same kind of tactics says the outlaws in fear that there was lenient sentence is low bales and we're talking lenient sentence is so what was the judicial response? While the police had one response, what was it was a judicial response different, and why do you think that was well? We always had a really good. Attorney's name was AL Eisenberg and Alan Eisenberg a lot of people in the Milwaukee County courthouse, but considering gadfly. He
SIRI, flashy or Fidora very uncivil. The people live, it was cross examined, I'm almost shouting at them at the meeting them in the set, but I own Eisenberg was very successful in defending the outlaws. Here's the story about Eisenberg. Before I get into the details and one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight Isenberg was working with his father Sidney and whatever reason they didn't like a judge, it was sitting on Waukee County traffic court then was John Krueger. Apparently they were intimidating figure and at one time it's alleged that Heisenberg went to Kroger and said he had private investigators. Following the judge, the judge would be off the bench within sixty or ninety days, well, Krieger under the dress, Weisenburg I went into a courthouse bathroom little revolver, his multi killed himself in 1970s in Wiskott Freeport suspended Eisenberg and his father, what they called the intimated axe to cause them to push himself
over the edge. What Eisenberg with a good attitude or the outlook, the new one, the game, the system, the outlaws course we try to ensure that it is the witnesses they could coming forward and the da is in the system recognize that and as such you're willing to cut deals with Eisenberg, because they knew that the witnesses were he has in the testify in these trials need very expensive because almost off and they'd be going into witness protection programs, so the attorney really knew how to game. The system really happen is one of the Sentinel reporter was We kind of following the outlaws and reporting of cases it didn't seem to make much difference to him and then in the late 70s, two members of the Milwaukee Sentinel Stafford Partita saloon called the new boot, the Heavens Devils, where there, having their Christmas party, two in a member of a couple of members of the outlaws walked in and one began to spray the bar room with gunfire and shot two members, the Milwaukee Sentinel
chilled one member of the habits devils. That kind of, I guess when you start shooting the media and their present kind of changes, the perception of the club by the media and then the media began reporting call Linnea. Some of these deals were getting where they were committed: homicide, soul, edge, homicides, alleged sexual assault, bales were five thousand dollars. Somebody outlaws would go out and re offend one of one of the outlaws dot plot. Stealing the heart Harley Davidson actually tighten the two steps in one night and then went to Louisville KY and it's up to the past. Fifty thousand dollars worth of forty US currency and came back to Milwaukee bail remain the same. Send some concurrently to the federale time that he was serving for the color fits. You got absolutely no time for the Harley David, that's whatsoever it was really a judicial system. Back in walking in the state of Wisconsin in Milwaukee and the seven 60s and 70s, probably the first half of the day.
The disease was very lenient, even for homicides. If you were sentenced to, a homicide you did send it to thirty years, did between twenty five percent. Thirty percent of the sets for a release, who sings tend to change in the 1980s and the uh, Well, it's really took advantage in the system. I now, let's talk about the the death of John Werner and also so with that, of course, of Victoria Hornick and Gary Hornick. So talk about this just to again further Illus trade, or demonstrate how the outlaws work well in the early 90s, the 70s yacht also trying to expand our reach outside Milwaukee, proper, outside metroball off Sheboygan, a city, it's probably about sixty five miles north of Milwaukee
and it should work in calling the wrist. What minutes walk lined with a group called the Untouchables Motorcycle club. The president's name was Gary Hart ACT at the time you want to go over. The talks will get about a hundred thirty six members. What do you want to make the group more last like the outlaws. So we do this began getting rid of what he called all the leakers from the club and turn the club down to about. Forty members, you, like better young touchables, set up beautiful clubhouse, is not uh on the Sheboygan Masla Clienti outlaws realize that they can incorporate this club into their into their system because expanding our reach into that part of the state so
she believed Gary Horak. He really has no reason to lie about this. They outlaws went to in a touch party at the Intouchables clubhouse and apparently the outlaws had a plan at the time to murder John Warner with the prospects for their club. He was, it adds with the outlaws. Some of them believe that you may have give information to police, blotter prior sexual salt and the outlaws plan to kill Warner at this party. They know if it killed methods, partly, I believe that the Intouchables become involved in the cover up and and uh, since you outlaws, would then be able to take over the club and that's what happened. Warner was at the party using courage to fight another member of former member of the outlaws. Where I got the best of the other member, then he was getting ahead with a wine bottle and feed a little bit. You went to clean up in a river eventually came into the clubhouse
and yet one of the outlaws number sorry chill son of a and where was taken outside his colors taken off. Will a knife was passed, one member of the Outlawz to another and the outlaws stab and. Order eventually was taken to a hospital for in the back of a station wagon taken to a hospital and passed away in a homicide investigation, but they always had there and then, within about two weeks ago, Touchables Motorcycle Club no longer existed and, in essence, is folded into the outlaws and became the outlaws Motorcycle Club Sheboygan Chapter, and that gave you all as they wanted their foothold in that part of the state. But you also talk about Victoria Hornick. Had in some involvement of this and. And her shallow grave. So right, Victoria Hornak was wife of
she was not present at this. When war was killed, but Warner Axe, close friend, Cheryl close, he was she's the woman, a conveyed order to the hospital, and so you can. You can speculate your this popular jealousy going on machine head information about that homicide arose robs you told us something about it, but you also have to About but they had checked checked that was forged, and so, as the relationship got more rocky, Gary Horneck suspected his wife Victoria was going to the police of this information and he developed a plan to kill her with two other members in the club, eventually she's lured to a farm by two members of the club and
at this farm, one of the other members. His name is Richard Lewis and he supposed to shoot Victoria and Gary push it over, but he isn't the guts to do these fires around offer these fires in the ground. He doesn't have the guts Victoria Horn at that time, Victoria retreats the Woods Seatbacks backpedals, and this wooded area, Gary followers or other people here, three to four shots and then Gary emerges and tells the other members that he shot Victoria. If they want to take the money they were pockets. Before they bury. Are that information, though that case eventually the two other members of the outlaws when law enforcement pressure on the turn state's witness and the district attorney in Cheboygan County was able to impanel. A John DOE hearing, which is similar to the FED, grand jury. Eventually, we obtain the information they needed to try and convict Gary Hornak Cheater. The case is that, while your next conviction and made the outlaws chapter in Sheboygan go away without a foreign act
chapter was gonna, be successful, but, more importantly down the road or not realized being prison for a long time. So we decided to turn state's witness and that's when police finally determined that the information that make the prosecution against the suspect who killed John Warner and also learned the outlaws, we were involved in the apps that Bobby now you talk about the nineteen seventy six, the catcher, break in the Warner. Murder, investigation and horn agrees to turn state evidence
and a contact special agent tomaselli. As you read in this book, there's this brick by brick the get to some of these people and and sure enough, despite their one percent model and their pledge to not snitch on their fellow bikers. They certainly do so tell us a little bit what they get from Gary Hornick and from this investigation, what he tells him will Garian which is serving a prison sentence that with palm, which is the largest correctional facility in Wisconsin, it's meant for hardcore offenders and a tie there's very tough. So as he sitting there for a year, half are so he finally called
special agent Lewis, Thomas Ellie from the Wisconsin Department of Criminal investigation and whoring, says that, although he wasn't present and didn't see anything first hand regarding to Anstead murder, the other all LOS told him that the all laws did it, but he was there when he said Cragg long, Hopper killed Job Warner and he said the investigators piece by piece information like how the homicide occured and why he believes the outlaws setup that homicides per in Sheboygan laid the whole case sell for then in the interim, Popper is charged with killing John Warner, but ice and burgers isn't version that Ernie one of the witnesses to the case is a member of the club, but in the end of the last he says he passed a nice to the ought to hopper. Thank you all work. He also said that lives in jail. Eisenberg. Can this number and all
was wearing a wire from Tomaselli and Eisenberg was trying to convey simple. I in Astana, super suborn perjury I told him- that Where it was having affair with number member of the old lots, not true, this gets reported in court, but still the jury listen to all the evidence and they find hop or not guilty. They believe it was some type of self defense claim that or miss identification of the possible stabbing stabbing suspect, copper, beech threat hornak in the interim, it's really hard to get which is against the all of this stuff. She someone who's been higher up. The key becomes controversial figure because he killed his wife with the time was six months pregnant and he's getting these really really kind of tree with kid gloves by authorities in Cheboygan County there's, disassemble jail cell next to his, where you can make leather products that he was selling the members of the county
it take him up the roof of the Porthouse learn Sundays. On the courthouse at one time, it took him up to up a resort one of the homes of the door county which serve one of our resort communities for a weekend, so we can relax. So the media focused on that you figure out why the year was cutting just a good deal with Hornak, who himself was a killer. That sought tough, is get good performance against these guys with the horn at chase. Talk taught the outlaws, though, is that, like the Hells angels, have a slogan, Freeman can keep a secret. If two are dead, most laws people were still alive and the police could put the squeeze to him. It would turn state's witness, but it couldn't do that they were dead, and so that's what they always preceded to do to all the witnesses and the ants that case and some of their crimes. Preceded: did you go about killing people that could become potential states witnesses? Now you talk about Joseph Collar and John Bushman,
and rape and beaten a woman beer. Model inserted in her tell us about this incident, and because this is important to this, ongoing investigation. As will find, what do they find as a result of this investigation that starts off with this rape? and they believe this. Maybe this woman won't go to police. What happens as with John Bushman John Bushman was is, is the primary suspect in the Larian Step bombing case investigators, all know it that bushman was involved because they had a snitch. His name was Billy the kid Wadsworth that came forward and said that he and bushman,
all rights to worry. With that she- and she was taken from the bushmen and another partner for batch. They ran a chop shop on a farm, and so bushman obvious you always a primary such that the case in getting indicted federally for running firearms lists that were stolen from a warehouse walkie. While he was out on bail, bushman end up going to a party that was held, the clubhouse walk so close with eleven Brook Street in the city, your cell site, the people there was Joseph Kohler, what happened. Was that a woman who apparently was a stripper? She came to the party at the imitation one of the outlaws when you walked in the clubhouse for apparently a vending machine. If you wanted to be read to pay to get put money into the vending machine to get the beer out and she actually got a beautiful, a vending machine. Joseph polar his nickname is junkyard picture up through over shoulder and fury up of small ladder. Full loft were polar Bushman,
another member of the outlines for sea doo sexually assault are numerous times in numerous different ways: the woman then after she's assaulted, the outlaws took no clothes She came downstairs and there's large party going on any outlaw bushman told her full ring up in the barn dance for the people present to time she alleges polar put up your vagina, which Pushman Flash device president the outlaws chapter that I'm Judy Moody and he told so you told the bikers. Look, I don't think she's gonna do anything this letter ago, so she leaves the party with another outlaw was that all laws house spend the night and then in the morning, when she wakes up, she contacts the police. My sexual assault investigations on the way the police have doing a search warrant at the clubhouse and they find the Womans teach.
Took her. She had a jump she took with her, but she couldn't find her panties for pennies were found over o'clock draped over clock in the clubhouse, ironically, that the next day in unrelated matter why the bushman is is under investigation for sexual assault. Investigators finally serve a search warrant at the property, farm, where Bush from the mansion had to chop shop and they find she and she used to make the explosives when the ants that case in the rafters of the barn in the shop shop is so. This is not a good week for John Bush, eventually the pushing is charging polar charged with sexual assault case that goes to trial Eisenberg. Is there again defending him and even though
DA believes case is kind of weak. He believes the woman's sexual proclivities that, after she left the party with the outlaw member spent the night at his house. Apparently his wife left. She had consensual sex with a member of the outlawed, so DA really thought is going to be a kind of a crapshoot in this case, but he tries the case and Eisenberg tries to intimidate the witness. The long story short is the jury believes the woman they find Bushman Kohler guilty the sexual salt, and so this is the girl who was sexually salted. She was put in with its action that cylinder different state by this point in time now, police and prosecutors are on the same page how to make these witnesses testify and given the proper protection to testify against the all lost. Absolutely we're going to use this as an opportunity to stop for a moment to talk about our sponsor for today. Zip recruiter. Are you hiring? Do you know where to post your job, to find the best candidates
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time to try for free, go to ziprecruiter dot com, slash murder,. We were talking about the noose. As you write in the book, slowly tightening around members of the outlaw motorcycle club and police and prosecutors be again to really understand how and who then to target, to get more information to further head up there matter and solve these murders and and other crimes. For our audience explain what the concept of predicate acts is in its meaning and its importance in this story. A predicate act is a crime that would meet the definition of racketeering in the US statutes. Now. First, approximately eighteen, federal, offenses and uh
the other state offenses that would be applicable, murder, mayhem, arson, car theft, if you commit the person, would commit three predicate acts within a certain period of time, generally is between six and ten years, depending on the with an organization reservation that becomes an act racketeering and you get a maximum sentence of twenty five years to life: racketeering, soul, when it when a federal agency goes in and date, somebody for racketeering, they have a lot of lot of. Pressure is placed on the defendants, because the prosecutors have a lot of leeway in how to charge in the case and Azar's. Well. If they can really get members of the club or organized crime group,
most most of the Outlawz, whatever come for as witnesses to avoid life sentences. Now you talk about the match in the chop: shop guy and now you talk about Joe stole Lou and B and Clifford Makin gone missing and you talk about a man named Vaughn, so tell us about this arson fire an when we talked about in the introduction of the mother and her infant perishing in this fire. Tell us about this incredible incident. Ok, but I don't think I covered stolen Irby so that before I get to the arson but chill stole partner, John Bushman, and he also he wasn't in all all, but he's an associate in the outlaws that worked at the chop shop. His girlfriend was
We went beach is a twenty year old, striptease dancer from International falls Minnesota. She only been in Lafayette about two weeks when she met stole and they became a couple well, they were both presidents stole herby and Bush spent at the chop shop when Billy the kid watch work where the person actually give information, a police went there and saw bushman making the presence of the having the devil was the bomb that killed and stepped is putting together at the chop shop within the span. After Bush, we got indicted for the firearm chase. Stole was one of his partners. Bushman stole it taken some guns down to Illinois and trade them for a member of the Outlawz Libertyville. Well, obviously, they didn't know what, but the Outlawz member Illinois was an informant for the h yeah, so the eight
she had followed bushman stole back by airplane and eventually indicted both them for the firearms trafficking and soon afterwards, because obviously stole move made the device, so derby stolen early, just vanished off the face of the earth. I still miss Clifford Mansion reason. Mansion is important that he owned the farm on the chop. Shop was. Eventually when Bush renewed. He was going to go away from the sexual assault. He officers had served a search warrant at mansions Farm invited mansion to meet him at a farm in Waukesha. One of the investigators in the case, Roger Hitler, says that man she was lured there he's told to bring ten thousand dollars with them. That pushing with Precure motorcycle forum and Sponsor become a member of the all lives. But you know mention must not have been the sharpest tool in the shed because he knew Places just been rated any new that push. It was going to be a prime suspect that he went to the farm
walk so anyway he went there, he was murdered and he was a body was thrown into a shallow grip on and then placed underneath the shed. So now you have those three in the Those missing which would have actually goes to prison. The sexual salt and outlaws now under a lot of pressure still from Anthony other offenses, and they need to have my grade Ulta Milwaukee and into a suburb called SALT Milwaukee. It's Uh in Milwaukee County, probably about four five miles: salt in the city proper and they start visiting taverns. There's a very blue collar, the timeslot industry, dirty Cyrus used to be there a lot of big companies and they all you can visiting these patterns. They begin analyzing, Cameron, steel, I don't have tavern finally, will be open circuit, called brandy, higher
Woman there in Virginia Phillips will not let them inside she told him. I don't want you inside your animals, I lost sleep or four hundred o'clock in the morning that morning too bad there's no description really just choose which the tavern, which is now closed and they crazy door with gasoline and light it on fire. Either they didn't know it or they did know, but upstairs the tavern was apartments and a young mother infant child were killed in the fire from smoke inhalation. At the time now, I'm still walking loose a typical blue collar longer title. The small police department, the Russians became soul While they openly told reporters that are formed, vigilante bootable after the outlaws doesn't much really ashamed of sandy group blogs continuing also for awhile before you, please schedule wise, even started free partnerships, this off walking
please, but these were charged enough for anything. Could fire bellows minutes? Keep that one such as one of the cases? It's full birthday in a skaters are locked up just returning, you might look and see heat information linking the outlaws arson fire in the disadvantage, step which he had not information, bring chargers near. You talk about the summer of one thousand. Nine hundred and eighty David Hoover from the DA calls out Lhasa, highly sophisticated, well organized criminal enterprise, uh, and, You say that also that they talked about the changing of the guard in Milwaukee's, biker community. Some went to prison faded away. Ann and so what does the eighties are you're in in terms of any change in headway towards stemming the tide of the outlaws it
is there. Any new developments in the 80s you talked about the summer of one thousand nine hundred and eighty one Canadian BC documentary tell us a little bit about what changes in the 80s and what are those changes. Eight thousand and sixty dollars before mom. Suppose, member for getting older, movie nine different things way from the club prison. Some members, this drop out of a new ones, come in with a ninety percent. We also were having lunch with friends should face or customers phone numbers were in prison. Somebody older very well number right members, new blood in the organization, level of disarray we're. No longer there how's, it remains their job is croup. Young converse mention how to become put out lies, and so,
What is creating you gonna see that that the transition from the chief, the first original part of the club, the club that would that would be there from all the early 1980s believe tightness in nineteen. Ninety seven yeah last this time, there's a melon across Wisconsin Saturday did Marshall. He was linked national enforcer and it was believed that he was. He transformed. That entity, a movie channel killed by the Hell's angels. Then she goes back to it's got to be catches, a gun case with Scott, and this comes out. The court records that he actually was. A national forces from the club you see now the organized crime pattern. Moving play from the earliest outlaws are ruffian tormentors. The deadly
Decatur's, now becoming more of a racketeering based organization in the 1980s. Now you talk about ten years after Clifford Matkins matchings the disappearance. This is the progress that law enforcement prosecutors are having they talk about Guy named Willie Kreska and talk about an interview where they talk about Bushman's participation in those. Orders so tell us what they get in, how they get that information and how things are progressing in cold cases that they are still on the books. Well, visually mansion. After the the search was served at his farm mansion, hired attorney agreed to cooperate with prosecutors uh
I just re. Then she went on to the Milwaukee County courthouse. They met with investigators in assistant, attorney inventions, attorney, told Dj Magic, provide information about instant bombing as well as guns that Bush had transferred to american indian Movement. So what happens for an bushman first could be faster matches. A tree really come back in couple weeks, finer details. This is what kind of along for some blunders at that family. Probably shirts, look mansion placements will witness protection probe
in addition, his girlfriend with they didn't do that. For some reason I talked to investigate about it. He said he didn't know why he thought. Maybe it's meant that this translation Salinas protection when they came back, which is thinking up all the retaliation, would be a sort of done. So because we all know what happened to the other cases in which maneuver to search for have been executed at this farm, police were looking for them in regards that search warrant play. Whatever reason You can do it and push me guys managed before the police did. Nobody really knew would happen to mention for about ten years and he disappeared. They couldn't find it. Then, in nineteen eighty eight December nineteen, eighty eight two detectives were working solar cars right from the with the all the laws that will be crested slant. Stopping for a vehicle violation, and and eventually taken the jail, and he said he
Why? You should look? I can tell you is literally with this robot family, so I can tell you a chill down who can tell you kill match, because I was there when they bury his body so presently limit hold'em whole situation. I was instructed to go out to the farm and he's gonna pick up. Madison's truck traffic to chop shops will be destroyed when he got there. He saw mansion lying on the ground, features team visits on the part of a shotgun and eat it suffered last great from underneath his shit on this far sleep messengers, identifying farm Yuri exchange now because a lot of the farm for being transition at this subdivision. So the best fears about two days for that
by the farm. It work in conjunction with investigators, blocked up haunting stations, Milwaukee and eventually got consent from the owner of the farm, not painted search warrant to dig up the grave and they found the bones believed to be mansions. Ironically, enough, even though they seem like police at all. They had all the elements of the crime major thing at the time this was the dna was in its infancy was the actual identity of match. They had a forensics Vestigator, a path ologist comfortable. She said that she was sure to a medical degree of certainty that the person was mentioned that the at the time didn't want to buy. It investigators believe that the da they personally believe this to their Corda DA was afraid
realize he asked the question, apparently that they charges case need to be special security members measures taken to the courthouse, and maybe it's remembers, the DA staff and when the federal agents, so there would be kind of seemed pause about charging bushman with the death of mansion and still the case went unclear ironically, since bushman is alleged to have killed Anstead by the investigators say gotten mansion, they would've gotten answered. It still hurt too, but the case is still open kind of a side with the story on this, though, is that why was reading. The book was attempting to find out more informational, mansions involvement with the American Indian Movement Transfer of guns to do so well on the file, a freedom of Information ACT request with the FBI. In order for me to do that, I do at two things I have managed in signature, which is possible 'cause, he said,
or I have to have a death certificate that match this dead, so that there's no privacy related issues with the federal government in the FBI. When I call, all the medical when I called Waukesha County records and deeds to get the woman said there was not on file, and she heard me to the medical examiner who said that imagines bones. You've got to be positively identified, they cannot find a living. Relative was bowling supply, a comparative dna sample on a fear that y'all was retaliate. So his bones are basically sat in the shelf. For twenty eight years and his death still never been identified so long story short little research? You can find us in the conclusion of the book. The last half of the collision
They claim they couldn't find a role to avenge the did a little research with that, but six different you W Wisconsin databases. I was able to locate to relatives of mansions, I contacted one of them and a relative told me that relative would be able to provide a sample of dna and so they're a couple glitches in the case. But I was told two weeks ago data investigators making progress law enforcement to possibly through the case, how, That's incredible now part of this book two is the. We mentioned the ongoing fight with the Hells Angels for Control of Wisconsin. So you talk about that fight. Tell us about some of the incidents that that they are characterized this fight with the Hells angels in
Wisconsin, where will it in the nineteen ninety or so rumors are spreading, but the Hells angels were attempting to patch over three clubs or three chapters of one club. The hell is henchman, they had chapters and Rockford Chicago. And solved in Indiana, Illinois and Wisconsin are outlawed states I mean outlaws. Mother chapter is in Chicago, that's in their second chapter third chapter, but I look at it is in Milwaukee that helps with the Hells angels. Making a movement Illinois was a major threat to the all lives, hells Angels traditionally start on the West Coast in the country, was divided into four regions at the group. We want to kind of dominate pagans in the E post, the outlaws in the midwest. This solves Van Dino's Southwest and the Hells angels on the West Coast in it and will be in work, but the Hells angels began expanding in different parts of the
in the beginning quotes in the outlaws in the Pagans Anna Bandido. Is it cause obvious a lot of resentment between these groups, so the person who actually sponsored the hell attention become members of the Hells Angels with Pat Matter use the chapter president, the Hells Angels in Minnesota. The outlaws got wind of this in about nine late nineteen, eighty 80s early, one thousand nine hundred and ninety, and so they came up with a strategy that they needed to have a club around their southern border. Under eyes and ears attached over a club called the booze runners from their club into the outlaws state
chapter. Their leader was a guy by the name of Kevin Spike. O'neill he's probably one of the most dangerous bikers Wisconsin history, because he was praising how we go about his business. So the first act at the there are still booze letters to test your mettle and the outlaws. Had the blues learners go around the Rockford attraction, most of the voice. That looks like a fire extinguisher wires on to it and place it at the door. At the hell's henchman, Rockford, Plaza State Street The leader, the president of the Hells henchman him and his girlfriend came home from a night owl. And they're watching some movies. Upstairs they heard some ruckus town in the clubhouse
if she was on- and he grabbed the gun, went out to investigate and saw this improvised explosive device placed them against the door and notify the police police came, they called in the bomb squad theory. Was there going to take this explosive device? Ported onto Annette them from the net will be taken into the steel tube and that we take it out in the country award be detonated, an explosion would be forced up in the air out of the steel too, while the investigators were trying to put the device on the net is flipped on to that nation. Where is an exploded,
and shattered windows for about four blocks. The health henchman president was about two hundred feet away at a car wash in the last wave was so strong need a cargo open and close the door of the car through the police officers that were there on the bomb squad suffered injuries, and so that was two months later years day. One thousand nine hundred and ninety one the outlaws officially patched over the Boos letters and you can their state chapter to kind of test, your mettle she did with it the bomb Iraq for and then really the war was not between the outlaws in the hell's angels, because the hell's angels work, the coach and Illinois and Southeast will start to more or less from there. There was a another. A series of attacks were the outlaws, are trying to discourage the help section, dropping your
hatch becoming members of the hell's angels. There was a series of of beating the bombings, shooting the worker, the last bombing that occurred, probably the most this with in November of nineteen. Ninety four and we all lost had stolen car in Wisconsin is a Ford Taurus head full of up to one hundred pounds of C4. It drove the car down the Illinois and parked it outside the clubhouse Chicago Club. Most of the health management from the person that I will pull cord device for explode in sixty seconds. After parking, the car in action under car, driven by the outlaws capital Neil
They drove away school bus just passed by before the bomb detonated and it blew a four Impala steel door off the clubhouse impact. It went through two walls and in fact it in a cement wall. Six building suffered structural damage and the bomb list of four foot hole crater in the street by most standard. By most in terms of experts, explosive experts, the United States, after the Al Qaeda bombing of the first World Trade center bombing in one thousand nine hundred and ninety one Timothy Mcveigh's explosion outside Alfred P, Murrah, federal building, Oklahoma City bombing, the Chicago club. This was the third largest car bombing in US history. I
Basically, no one was killed and some of the investigators have seen calculated the odds and they said the odds are astronomical. No one be hurt seriously hurt, killed it's kind of amazing thing, but that Bob last more or less brought on so much attention that it caused the outlaws and the Hells angels. That kind of rethink. There for each other, and things seem to simmer down because of all the attention that last brought up on both clubs. You talk about law enforcement back and forth with the outlaws in the detective. Zar Lety in particular, and you mentioned that Mark Quinn had banged on his door at three hundred in the morning. So they He knew that they knew where he lived, but you talk about Mark Quinn and pray.
Isn't Anne Randall Miller and talking about Ruth and Morris Gager, so tell us about this events. Well part of the member Spike O'Neill's crew. The state line they were very active in Se Wisconsin and Tool, and the members Randall bad. Bad Miller and James preacher Snyder had heard through the grapevine that an elderly couple groups and more as Dogger had thirty thousand dollars in cash stashed, atrophy farm in Northern Illinois, you can actually throw stone from the Wisconsin border and hit this farm and Illinois, and so that is beside you We will not be advised to plan to go down there and rob the only couple. This cash another farm also had a repair shop for motorcycles and that's how the family was enrolled in the motorcycling, pretty an RT also had a trailer where she sold like carpets and rugs from.
The two members of the allies arrive approximately at six hundred and thirty in the morning to go to the door to our house on the farm house and moved auger answers. At the time Miller says that he's going to talk to her husband in the shed in the work shed and then Snyder lures moved. Auger. Is this trailer where she has these carpets? You ask about the money, say you pistol what Sir she falls to the ground inserts and night nice neck slit, your throat, then leaves the trailer after locking it goes to meet Miller outside the repair shop. They enter Miller, fronts or stolen about where the thirty thousand dollars in cash is. He says he doesn't know if you're talking about hands over a small amount of cash for drawer and then Miller follows him into an adjacent room and stabs in the death. The two out was leave and they leave they had covered.
Tracks are both very hairnets things not believe in a dna and globes, and they have a actually goal to Lake Geneva WI to a restaurant and they buy breakfast with proceeds that they have strawberry a small amount of proceeds. What happens with that law enforcement gets called in, and law enforcement Amuli suspects to couple son, Gary Gilbert He lives on the farm, but in a different building on the farm and Gary was kind of a recovering alcoholic like to smoke marijuana or some people call my benevolent hippie type using organic farmer, and so law enforcement focused on Gary Gallagher, put a lot of pressure on, am I really never did confess to do in the to doing the murders, there is no physical evidence linking in there, but based on the overall circumstantial evidence. He was charged with the murders
This parents convicted under jury trial and sentenced to die by lethal injection. Fortunately, for daughter's investigators began making progress in the outlaws cases mark crash Quinn, who was one time enforces. The state line chapter was doing time in jail and fear yeah he get caught up in the roots and Bruce murders of Morris Ruth. He called up a standard development of the ATF agent. Milwaukee is kindly investigation, folder come down there and he told him that they had the wrong person and death row from Morris, color, actually Randall Miller and James struggle with the children and then case against the outlaws preceded eventually Gary Gallagher was released. Thank God. You talk about the relationship. With Kevin O'Neill, you said, one of most dangerous outlaws and and in Wisconsin's history and David Wolf
then the role of his wife in another incident we talk about many Matheus being killed and and also began. The henchman are involved in this as well. So tell us about this. What happens with Kevin O'Neill and David Wolf and his wife? Sure O'Neal is the head of the state line chapter and what happens is that all laws number, but it seem a Peter grease. Lightning. Rogers is shot Chicago the Outlaws spect, with L section at the shooting and Rogers was the regional presently all is there this, really cause a lot of animosity between the outlaws and health henchman. Now all is really on the offensive and they didn't believe they could take Kevin Rogers shot without retaliating. It's back in Union Grove WI, where the state line chapter of the LS heads clubhouse
O'Neill, summoned David Wolfe's there and David Wolf at the time was the prospects for the outlaws. He wasn't a fully patched member, they told Wolf. Look I want you, go down there and conduct surveillance Monty Mathias, with the treasure of the hell attention to you on the motorcycle shop in Rockford called MC fabrications, and he went under conduct surveillance and you get a chance to take him out O'Neill, providing with a map of locations, in walls, along with her rearview towers and number other prospect of the outlaws they travel to Rockford. I thank you for the homicide. Well, most white Tricia will surely had got wind of this house. I was going to take place. She call called Mchenry County Sheriff's Office Lake County Sheriff's office. She offered information slip, there's going to be a homicide dollar going to come down there going to kill. Somebody owns a shop number of arrive
club in Rockford. Whatever reason this information never gets passed down to the investigators for about twelve or thirteen hours, so in this room the outlaws are watching the shop and Mathias comes in the shop and they're watching enter. Eventually, Wolf agrees to go into the shop purchase, a spark, log in check out case the inside he goes in, gets a spark plug looks around he realizes Mathias is there by himself he returns in the car. The two other members of associates would be all laws and they say what's up, and you said well, Miss ICE is there by himself
and then power cells and look. We gonna do this or what and then Mathias Wolf says I'm going to do it. Let's go so Wolf returns back to the shop he wants. He says he wants to exchange. The spark plug he can tell Mathias is a little kind of hanky. The time both eyes turns around the walk towards the part from he's followed by Wolf within pulls out at forty five caliber pistol begins, shoot him in the neck. The gun jams, though after four or five shots, are fired. Messiah styes in the grout in a flight is on and Wolf uses the pistol but beat Mathias so hard that the handle of the firearm shatters believe that massages dead, Wolf gets up, he's going to leave the back door of the shops, and he goes to the back door. You can't get out it's locked, so he returns in the front of shop and he sees Mathias land. There is still gurgling you swearing
Wolf. I am with different names, so Wolf reaches for nearby screwdriver, begin to stab him several times and takes screwdriver and shoves it right through his neck, Wolf leaves the shop he gets in the car and go you bought horror Wisconsin when they begin to destroy evidence of the crime, but next day brought noontime investigators finding in the message to Patricia Wolf at the possible homicide, light happen and as the investigators seeking information is listening to the radio and information with the homicide and see fabrication came over about noon. The next day, ups delivery to ever walk the shop publicized. Yet so how that information wasn't passed, we will tell the next eight yes, agent had possession of the they were about to try to go wash select, reject
the Asian, but never had a chance. One more interesting things in this book and it's almost comedic in a book- that's not very funny at All- is that Patricia Wolf agrees to put a bug in a lamp that the authorities provide for her and puts it in their home and within weeks you say that the big tough guy O'Neal comes by any compliments around the new lamp, so the and the authorities then arrange for Patricia to get O'Neal Alam outfitted the same way to listen to his private conversations. Tell us a little bit about this and will opportunity and break they get with this bug in the lamp Trisha Wolf. The reason investigators managed to get her cooperation is that plot wind that there had been the active domestic violence perpetrated against her by David Wolf.
Install in the immediate aftermath of the battery to the Trisha investigators, went and knocked on the door and David wasn't there, because this domestic violence they go over the gainer confidence and she told him word Wolf. It's up to with the club was doing so they went in there 'cause. It was her home. They obtained the lamp and put a electronic eavesdropping device and the lamp attached investigators set up nearby with the van. And it will listen to all the conversations and, as you sit until two weeks later, O'Neill comes over his laws. Really a nice lamp. You got boy, it's really special, so she went and told the investigators and of course they went and found the same lamp and put a device
the lamp and then next time will Neil came over she said. Look I got an extra lamp I'll. Give it to you, he took it. He placed the lamp right in their clubhouse in Union Grove Scotts. Of course, the investigators, since it was O'Neill, and then they could actually get a search warrant, title three Warren to ease drop in the lamp, because it wasn't there with this consent, but they got that they were listening to all the conversations going around the clubhouse, eventually clicked map from the clubhouse and also put in this home in Racine, and so investigators were able to get a lot of information with clubs activity from this bugging in the lamp, including the conversations with David Wolfe and some of their minions. But some of the crimes are going to connect. Now, David Wolf realizes that That the word is is that their son informant and he realizes it's likely his wife and I think O'Neill.
Realizes that it might be Wolf's wife as well. So Wolf is aware that what Patricia is doing, and so what does David Wolf do as a result of what his wife is doing? What the information first comes to light because the outlaws orisa a man was not remember the all of these members of the association recovery motorcyclist are his name was Leslie Jack Jensen. He was in Lacrosse Wisconsin, which is the exact opposite side of state of Milwaukee, and he was in the southeastern southwestern part of the state will lock keys in the southwestern part of the state Jensen had an ATF source were a couple agents of people involved, the ATF with some reason, wanted to close the all. You can never really get the information out of the investigators not willing to share it, but they will say was an ATF source, passed information to Jensen. That said that the tube out last prospects that killed Mathias
it is a female old lady of one of 'em was providing information to police. She was going to testify again. Anne O'Neil, summons David Wolfe, the Union Grove Clubhouse is meet me outside the place is probably bug and walking around the clubhouse. He tells him look. He gives the whole story, but with Orman said lots of possible snitch in Wolfs the time realizes Spanish is my wife, but he doesn't hurt his wife more or less you, let's it slide, He knows that she's cooperating, but he's until O'Neal, because he's a fearful feet, Elsle Neil CALL, Neil, not only kill his wife will kill him because he's the one he told me that he had told no one about Mathias homicide. I'm sorry! His wife knew about the AMA stable, then We would like him O'Neal when that he lied, so he never only retaliate against his wife. At one point in the investigation, his wife calls him up, she says: look I have a yeah
pager number for a US attorney. I want to call it and at the time he knew that she was really into cooperating. This doesn't involve. Then he got so upset said no tricks, you don't do it again. Vomiting because you, then that is likely going to go away for a long time and that is vitamin cooperating the whole time providing information to studs. So it is an interesting, sorry, but how this one, woman, really uh, really caused a lot of trouble for the outlaws in that how she was more less trust to be in this inner circle, provided a lot of information to the federal government that were used really either catalyst at the indictments one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. You talk about that indictment. It started in nineteen. Ninety nine march, nineteen. Six and feds finally had the evidence to indict several club members, and you talk about what happens with this May. Nineteen. Nine thousand seven hundred and fifty one page indictment of seventeen
numbers eleven days later, at two good strong, posse of local state and federal officers had row. Look up all the fugitives accept Randy, the Yeager. And they had. He had thirty four counts, and you would also included numbers from Illinois. Illinois an Indiana, and all these guys were facing twenty five to life. So tell us what that pressure does to most of these guys and who decide to play. Guilty and who don't tell us more about this huge initiative, this fifty one page indictment. Finally, the nooses around the neck of the outlaws to some of that
Obviously, Jager Jager is one of the offices in Dayton. He just happened to be in LAS Vegas when the pass key began. Looking for people with the war in Japan, you got wind of initially fled to Mexico, but the other people. There is only really five outlaws. Really want to trial wrestling took guilty pleas, they're, looking at significant times, including James Preacher, cider, Lisbon, Randall Miller, killed boots and more stalder, and also- person who wasn't invited, but was there was quit, are Crashplan who provided testimonies you end up wearing a wire. We gotta jail to post the damage system when it was offered by either audio recording electronic reporting board members of the outlaws themselves. So the five rolled the dice they figured, they have nothing to lose besides. Go to trial trial last about six, six or seven weeks and all five were found guilty.
Really the ones that really the media and the judge and look at her. Actually the most world. Neil and the sitting judge the time G P, Step Miller used it. Yet in this time, is that the FED will judge it never seen anyone with score so high in the US sentencing guideline. Thirty five is meant to get a life sentence. O'neal scored fifty one even got more in the leader of the Milwaukee Mafia in the mid 80s Lord higher sharks, Randall Miller, the judge told that he was
virtually deserving of the death penalty and that Hillary committed crimes that you only see like in a third world country. Ironically, he was speared. Definitely not because of the judge, because Walkie, the federal prosecutor in the Eastern District Wisconsin that I'm Thomas Schneider, he was a person in Bellina death pallet. He promised not to charge anybody with any crimes that would result in death penalty inside Eastern Michigan, Wisconsin, so Miller, I'm getting life and so did full Neil are still locked up. That's incredible! Now you talk about in the last chapter, just the outlaws presently so What is the status now that they've again they've again do. You do say, there's a they never go away. There's a new.
Legion of people that want to become outlaws. So tell us what's happening with the outlaws presently sure. Well, my book really answer about two thousand is because, as a historian, we believe that in fifteen years must pass before. Usually some things considered history not a current event, but I have knowledge of the club and what happens just before the indictments came down.
Y'all lost. Is they had chapters at the state line, which is really is a state line in Janesville there really to one of the same thing: that's called into different chapters in the chapter Milwaukee. Well, just tired. The indictments coming down your laws, recognizing walkie chapters going to get three hard. They started establishing outposts around the state. Now we have all lost chapters in Green Bay, Milwaukee, Janesville, Kenosha, Stateline, Madison, lacrosse, it'll, clear. If you look at Wisconsin, it kind of makes a big you around the whole state, because Wisconsin is one of the few states where there is no Hells angels presents their cells angels in Minnesota. That sells angels
Illinois, not Wisconsin, this is more or less the outlaws last stand in Wisconsin as far as Midwest goes, so the shepherds are still there. There are still active part of the problem, though the really kind of nip the problem in the bud with the outlaws was the passage of the USA Patriot ACT for all its problems, search and seizure and kind of trampling the fourth amendment, one of the really good things the Patriot ACT was that it took a strong position on the use of explosives. Persons puts a pipe bomb outside a house down someone's injured. That's a fifteen year minimum. If someone's killed it's twenty five years to life or death, so the outlaws love, they use explosive, fellas, their signature, so they used to. Patriot act is really neutered. In that respect, the clubs are still out. There read some of the recent literature out there by the former leader of Chicago chapter. He claims that there's a lack of testosterone within the Outlaws Hells angels are
The process of taking him over in Illinois because there more tech, savvy Nude, is more trendy and that eat predictions going to either another war with the Hells Angels or the outlaws? Can he come up? Second class in Illinois will be interesting to see how that plays out, but still going on, well there on the leader of the outlaws planes that federal indictments of all these club members and how much time you got is really in a deterrent from more criminal activity. Absolutely I would.
Think I want to thank you very much Michael for coming on and talking about you gotta be dirty for those people that might want to follow this up and find out more about this. Do do a facebook page of a website tell us a little bit more about how people might contact him find out more about this sure with Facebook. Page is called predicate acts as in the predicate acts of racketeering, also have a twitter under the same moniker. Predicate acts want to look at the book. The best place to get it is either Amazon or Abebooks ad ebooks dot com, most two places other ones that generally sell the most. If you have any questions, please I take me to Facebook. I will have the answer any questions. Well, thank you very much, Michael its been fascinating. Talking about you, gotta be dirty. The history of the outlaws motorcycle club. Thank you very much for this
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-31.