Welcome to, under the skin with me, Russell Brand, the we're talking to locate the price, winning off I'm on the oil price renamed therein, Mugabe and his book poverty Safari. He explored attitudes to the working classes. Activism around the tragedy of grandfather was gone and a lot of attention and his personal insights into working class life have been aluminum in appendix I Tang and help to alter attitudes and infuse activism with a kind of new of new authenticity. We talk a lot about education, addiction, grass, roots politics. Social mobility is a fascinating episode of the package,

took place last year, we recorded it in Scotland and I think it was obviously the scramble tragedy not long happened, and I feel that we talk a lot about it, both obviously practically in both as an emblem of warped social attitudes and a kind of physical ization, of the tacit condemnation and sacrifice of the poor yeah, I enjoyed it, I enjoy this episode. Everyone come see me live. You can see me in Northampton at the beginning of December, look at restaurant dot com for details on the skins trying to achieve equality with the entire life in a category. Nor successful, that's exactly right in this era, where it turns out, we were never box beneath the surface of a people with more of the ideas that the finance on the history and welcome to Russell Brand and whisky darn. She starts off thanks for coming on under the skin my pleasure. What we can wait,

could be about poverty safari? What compelled you to write a book on what you were hoping to convey well always been written about social issues today pour a pall because it was One thing I really knew because that's how I grew up so I'm gonna, be. This ocean in fourteen was a lot of social media activism going on obviously like Facebook and all had really taken off and I was publishing like blogs about class whether it was on Facebook or like what place accessing can approve independence, new media- that was a male gin like sakes like bailing Caledonia, for example national collective. And I was just immediately struck by the response- the stuff was gettin and am aware. Sometimes people respond because it's kind of confirming their beliefs.

By the same time also started feigned in an audience, it will really interested and class as something to talk about, because it was something that was articulate the experience. I saw once I got a sense of last I'd when and how they use social media. To my advantage, and they're an overtime people say you know he should write a book and my first thought was people like me to write books. That's the face Lane and the book and such away from me. Can I come ii terms with the idea that I could do something on that scale? and then and then a dead at that to say that I would like to try. At least I thought why fought not whatever I in I the meat must publish all these seemed up for the they can a green light. Tat Nineveh helped from them again am took a few months to sort of regret. We gather my coincidence

and then I got another Manila publisher. I need them, but are worth press small, independent but very reputable publisher, and they just got the idea straightaway and nicotine letter. They told me about different grants. I could go for fundamental goal forms. I know what the word go down that route, because at the, why spent a long time in my life. Trying to explain to people who hold the keys for various accessed different thing about what I'm trying to do and not just be nice must commit creation is a result of the kind of the river As is I hear people call it. You know an activist up your Jonathon Shafi uses the phrase, the ravine, that really stuck with me, as he is a ravine of of between class expediencies, where, even when you're trying to communicate something quite basic, something gets lost in translation, so then what good only funding, not then it will have to justify myself suggest I the marbles on myself that the COPE fund, their race. Twelve thousand pounds was,

did my family and I was about a security. Well, I say about the task of reason: our baby that's my partner, what can fight part time, jobs trying somehow a book that I have a chap plundered structure for I know why aren't Shakespeare's up to then been got right in blocks issue while challenging inspiration, short form and a major doesnt placed it kind of demands. The ESA sixty five thousand were book here were placed under yeah exactly and because I do my only understanding of how structure something comes from music. So am I, in terms of like mapping that structure on a book book form it doesn't, walk to an extent. But what I didn't realize was that every time I change the sequence of the book, I had to read that again or speed reader, at least to see how it floors, whereas if I change album sequence, lakes, output, Jack five to try- and this was the first time the last track. then I wasn't in the album and forty minutes and I can hear

cohesively and for a minute, but The volume of water was something that I didn't actually like a shim beforehand and then it seemed a bit stupid. Really the amount of times I red things and the volume of it. So the book ended up. an interest in structure is, it is out of my, although I don't think I've ever attempt a book again without having a very ordered chapter plan go and enter Ryan just because the war aims when really got lost and obviously await. You know why slate when you ve got a young kids whom saw but are various demands on your time on your energy and just trying to find the time to apply itself to write- and I mean all the book was written in the back of tat. He's on trains and buses on a phone. Just like any time any any chance that I could get to re or felt inspired to get a few hundred want to turn off some noise and in

again. I would get my b a couple of days and hotel or something Let me go stay in a house that they had, which was quiet men of advance, larger volumes of what's the men at it was quiet by thing actual. All of that experience is difficult as it was, especially for my family is difficult, as it was then a God, love support. You know them family mocking, then help note taken the baby provided. resources, Hale advice, but sometimes very lonely. I don't know anyone has written a book. I dont know any who has been on Johnny, neither more nor selling things like Ghana, law of emails all the time and it seems like a pretentious thing to stress a boat backs away. happening to you and you cannot manage all as quite stressful- so was quite lonely because and my social circle, no one really

guarantees our stuff, but I haven't real problems and I just felt like I can go about their solemn pressure that gone about it a lot. the speedy and definitely prepared me for em. I forgot then again in future I'll be a wee bit moroccan haste. When, before I went to the door- and I have written a book and has been well received reflect their early or hindsight on why he wanted to communicate in poverty safari and whether the reaction to the book gives you hope you have communicated took a bit about that might well. The biggest surprise for me. First of all, was how were received. It's been. Am I'm just waiting for a scottish audience and when you know what slake man like an annual community, you ve got previous where everybody you know.

The people have the right formula, paint than opinions or view based on a number of different things, and vice versa, so obvious can of and my head. I was just thinking thus books going out to the people who all the lead, my walk, so she can have for a of fifty fifty reaction. most can and conflict more than what you gotta go into instinctively, but when when donor London at the start, the reassure them. What I realize was like I was getting a can of Saint chance to make a first impression to bring. What are the lessons that of Leon through a lot of escapes, that of go enter and discussions and arguments and debates about different things in Scotland and get a very clean connection with a potential audience. As do I know who I have no expectation and are sort of carrier. Forgive me. He found his use of light. Your online voice died like fruit blogging and talking about scottish independence.

now that you're in wines of more international levels in a rioting, he took him about classed by machine that, when you were talking about independent class, was a big component. You talk to me about yeah, I mean that's how I came came an option of conflict or sections of the yes movement, because you know, like all move. Is this a disagreement and certain pockets about what the priorities on what posture we should assume generally genitally saw, is the sort of for me and alone the people on account of less than the radical left we we didn't see. Didn't really by the idea that independence first and then we'll talk about all the stuffily, every thought and hang on. Why go ill, less trouble of having dependence if with no got really certain idea of what we will do in relation to taxation she'll hose in welfare, drug policy education. But let's really get anybody

feel about their stock. Is that may be the thing mobilise more people when the decimal entire communities who are you know. Usually apathetic, was politics and for good reason, So I would be broken up class, usually in relation to our because I was clean music around the themes that I thought was of a male jenner of the independence debate, and that sometimes I would comment a conflict when I would go and perform at arts events that were like felt very sort of stood in Eaton Middle Class and there's a certain expectation about, what's appropriate, you'll notice from your expedience of up as a performer, although because you're more established know, people will tend to come to are you are all issues that, when you're just meeting people for the first time and you're, using a vernacular and a lexicon and and and and things it might be perceived as vulgar or aggressive there,

He just feel resistance for Mina and then interesting questions because one of my pray, many andreasen independence was the regional accusation of culture and threaten me- the law of great radios and artists and artists from different places in the UK. Who could don't have friends in the sort of London double the disk ignored or the scene is kind of like firebrands or they get bracket it in a certain way, and so I thought independence is Bob selfishly I, for independence is a way for us to carry out our culture, and our own, and configure that in read. It makes sense to us and then the others, What self interest involved is will and hang say in this idea of being a bug, a fashion, a smaller point. You know I've been round for fifteen years. I am very, very competent otter, I'm very passionate about her

but even in Scotland idea, wrap in with my own action is like a joke for a lot of people, there are not even worse when you go down south, you know, although oh, the grime, wrappers and all the Mcs is pervaded. Protested of UK have pop this, like all of those reasons, but they were now go and discussions with people who were running these arts events- and I was wanting to talk about class or had class based disputes, work for them Then they were like we'll talk about Leslie. We talk about less after maybe try placate me Various ways officer underestimate how passion. I was about to that became a sort of a diverse his point for me on a lot of other people were for the yes movement that still remain still to this day. Have, I would say what is the nature of this dispute? What is The nature of this disparity between one picking up you describe,

ass, if more educated or to user classical convention were to move more bourgeois aspects of the left and, king class, continued here and then also under this dispute, also a nationalist food at the centre of always will so that its No, I I wouldn't characterize it as a dispute, although it does manifest as a confrontation and acrimony. I would characterize as am Things get lost in translation, so we

I really think about culture as a sort of continuum where people near the bottom, our weakness of graduates to become legitimate by virtue of their willingness to either conceal or renounce, loose, treats what under Kate, who they actually are with, whereas I see working class culture as a part of our culture and an end at their own many contradictions ex interest to ease lessons is a lot of wisdom. Little things are very distinct not being socially mobile and often and my wife, the of MAX the law across intervene. So over the years of bow up. An understanding of some of these fault lines and that that the breakdown and communication often can come from simply deference in a sense of

is your priority of the Wods that someone uses. So what what you may see is what you make at sea as passion, someone sees his aggression or personas, or what you might see as polite someone thinks. Is patronize him and it's. The combination of all of these are instances where people come away from an attempt to mango across the ravine that it just becomes natural titter of recoil back to where it's comfortable, where people agree, whereas I like to be on the line I more comfortable, the metal I come from, class background and passionate about her, but even then in my youth, the would be people to please how I spoke. What's that I use the things I was interested then available good idea about what a young man should be now resigned. He darted towns that within it team on the other side, then even just the things that I want to talk about, the way that I want to frame a stranger no cause of can have been co signed by a few words.

People now it's about like all this way, Mr Mugabe, but beforehand it was, is very much a struggle, manipulate my we until the middle class fiercely start wearing a hood, they start in a I wear, a pane of glasses instead of a baseball cap and when to talk like middle class people where a land that funding that's a sort of form of currency monies being clever, but sound and clever and and the ass a packed up. Why not that's when I became more socially more than perhaps my education with the valet, maybe make some good points to wonder things. I recently learned about the way that hedge many is constructed is with the imposition of a narrow and of a language within it and the way I learned it won't do in his course university. I said that the way

the western world or so called second awoke deals with Islam or middle eastern countries? Is with the assumption that visit a narrow if the Islam has to go through the will conform? war post nice through. I like that that create that Christine trees being through lie? A protestant examined, Catholicism and secularize Asian when, as you did, when you are describing working class culture, the entities are parallel, narrow that there is. There is a separate islamic narrow if there's a separate working class. Now, If you don't have these things, needn't, necessarily conflate, and certainly what you would call a secondary or sub narratives it can't be subsumed in their invoke com, is dominant Mary. So yeah a light. That might we said that you, after even on the line,

life. Is that the way that you accessorizing pop on a pair respects, instead of a baseball cap to be more year so of identifiable? But then, when you do that, you come into conflict with where you actually come from. You turn up gagging. Belize and people like well, I heard they heard the yank ya know and saw that actually as much as much as is, is that that has been difficult at times at the same time of kind of like have have tried to stay true, it will award one reader and really what the book was I was trying to do was engage motor pool at people from multiple back rooms. At the same time, so the book is structured in a way that appeals to people her baby, don't Rachel will let's eat,

the chapters are independent of one another. You can read the book backwards and you'd still get a little over. There are short chapters, so people will feel that are making progress, then they'll be less likely throw in the towel when they'll lose concentration, but obviously, as well am- I am true way to thank in rain, which means that use what's that, maybe wouldn't have been so natural to me, grown up and pork and Glasgow where people are very sort of like young men away touch. You have a boy usually what beautiful to escape someone here, and I saw the books true in that sense. But actually, when I, when I look at home when I look at the the sort of the breadth of response to not in terms of like how many people have read, but even if you were to take like a subset, of people, that the political diversity within the social diversity was a nice quite draken

and something I would never imagine I was capable of. But what I realise in hindsight, as that all other expedient of Gore, of talking to lots of different people and pushing b, my comfort zone to go to a place I wouldn't normally go to put myself in possession of discomfort has actually Actually, what shaped me as a right, oh nuts, what my voices so as as much as I can get drawn in a conflict that can be Lapierre can be egotistical, can be a right pain in the ass. To be quite frank, my my my the possession, I'm always sure written letters. One have been able to articulate what a reconciliation may look like over I understanding both points of view simultaneously, with the necessarily feeling the need to concede anything been able. I respectfully your someone's argument and get well We fully understand the king of the Interior over there global possession is opposed to just you know the behaviour,

all the language or whatever the dog Wes allies. For that particular viewpoint and actually Anne S kind of Es Eads, just no social media age. What social media such a profound veto for that we have all really underestimate the impact is gonna have meanness. Cambridge Anna, like a stop, is just the beginning of a strike, a collective maned around that So this is a time where, as much as we do need to fight for things, we need to define the way we think for things, and we also need people their male. True what kind of moving behind instead shop wounds wherever they can be stepped up and I'm not, that's something comes not you mean the older again, maybe because I'm gonna but soft, because I've got kids, or maybe that was always my natural possession- and it just took me that long to find the structure of myth would suggest is perfectly natural for us

life to feel somewhat episodic for things that seem so important when you're a young man tax received or soften, when we were growing up in Pollack may look obviously so now that you're not as immersed in that well just unitary urge you said Social mobility. Did you feel? Ah, let you fit in no absolutely ma am Although my taint differ and may now understood many different ways of looking at it,

and handle a broad range of interests, so I played football. I played rugby. I was interested in martial arts for away or a hung, a bow on the street known again. A present music drama am as well as a a a year or so ago, and it got an Ap Pope and my and my teens, which is where I feel most at home, am I felt most comfortable at home office after my mom left. My dad was very supportive of me being clear of I rush to get home and just go upstairs and walk an hour. I was walking on and my dad been likely have thought himself. He understood that and posts. That was one area where he really got me and that's been something fundamental that stayed with me and thus way you could entity dad was a through creativity, yeah yep that that's how he connected to me. He he me he raised three of us by himself

and and and and he didn't have an easy time as a cat- either mean the problems that come the macho to the echo generationally, which is unsurprising. But he was very many strong and seen. Don't you ever feel that you have to take a job you to order? If you want to go and walk Fein, don't lesson in the kitty as advisors to attain. in countries and be a plumber, don't lesson anyone doesn't like your music It is making fun of your tapes are wherever just Have you are either and he provided for cell is at home for me to do these things? I'm an and actually it was when fallen off. I was on my when walking on things. That's when I felt most comfortable. That's when I became distracted from a lot of the other stuff that was going on at at whether it was antennal, stuff or stuff for an external What don't like the constant threat of violence in our community?

which is even more frightened when you, your hyper vigilant as it is out of you, do not bring in just as constant anxiety. All the time and am my music and the things I was a boy express center. I could lose myself then that that that That gives me an opportunity when a lot of young people from my community, I dont know what are passionate about other got, no one pushing them to find what are passionate about as what gave me an immense level of privilege. Despite always lay awake, you might not consent to someone like me be privileged where I come from em, so I never really feel comfortable. Since I had kids and a few very seldom on relationship and my family back back involved Mullay. Since I started on the agenda of recovery, then I feel comfortable with my friends and family.

long time I was away from them, and I ivory Tower her keen maths about Why are we my own? Why my life is a mess and actually all that stuff, so assorted cell phone gradually over time and an actually I'm I'm? Usually to get home like a home when on get home, my partner I go home and see my boy now, I've be ghetto. Sometimes I can't be bothered with things I'm a human being, but there's no instinct and menacing, although one would relate to do a runner, You know one of you like to do a run on one. A belated he's, Goin still for a few days in the union my sense of belonging to a lot clearer. Now this idea front, communicate X, Ray experiences across Europe indeed, I think is important outlet like a tea things good on this day before the walls he talks about when he's teaching can american students how he says to them

I bet you ve got to learn how to speak. What is called standard in English. They might as well be standard. Why English was that the language, isn't, even if you think, is unfair- that you'll be marked down, because Europe, right in primarily in dialect, without even knowing that uranium dialect you're gonna to stand right English in order to make the arguments that bass unfair to this idea of communicating across the ravine, we're in an american communities is seems debate. Is that the corona we between writing class seems to be kind of a rum of total one. There is heard like when you read a lot about successful african americanized dealing with why media executives, a nice hour. We have to translate everything we say in the eyes of white person, for all God is it that the purty spew is the division that they even feel somewhat crest for Poland that prospect? But when you described in terms of closets clear to me, because I suppose

Moreover, I am identifiable, can recognize it from my own experience. So am I what we have to find is some. It is the universe or perhaps this is a a job of our and social structure in less. Where were those two things align that if we continue to reiterate our distinctions from one another, then, as you say, war is going to be the possibility for there to be x, and you know healing yeah, subsequently, yeah, so, like Howard, lay or API, with the way that there is, will you be when we view music and also with this book the the way your communication, Isn T, feel positive about Sophia back again around it yeah I mean why wasn't ready for how generous people have been as I see like when you learn a of when you things in an entrenched debates about circular ashes, and then you can become disheartened by action

like I see that clean connection, em and just to be honest man like me now make comic, I dont know how a common prosper. I've been told some things that can be quite arrogant, so no one will ever rate, which would would would suggest I'm supremely confident moment ballet, but I'm not really so when I get that information is something I've done is valuable to people, whether they agree with it or not. Actually that can quiet my ego, so it has the reverse effect that you would that you would think that actually any success, that woman has his kind of stole the law of the instinct to go. I told you so, and sometimes I'll still get about kind of I'll feel about kind of like him. Satisfied, for example, a boat. You know people who, You couldn't. There are people who criticised, and I thank her get up here. That's natural law, but it's not like my de folks here and I'm not more ready to prove

myself and and the more that people I mean all of engaging with the criticism of the book, because as much as it can be excruciating reading someone really again and detail about why you're wrong and sometimes almost to the application of that may be quite person, was, will then at the same time, I think that's where my growth Homs, not just their ability to engage with care says M, but but I am what the case as a means, but the process of putting yourself throughout the something about our relationship between growth and does come for that. Its candidature is to throw yourself and two up, but you know some of you it says on the have received about things that I've said things that have written opinions to have expressed as much as it was difficult with the team, and I might not have reacted with a great deal of dignity at the time

I always say glowing thank about tat because I respect the fact that the other person is commoner me has just is complicated and read. shall background of expediency in form and everything about what they understand about the subject to the greedy and at the end of the conversation, and it would be foolish of me to try and a cat characterized em, an animal of shorthand way adjusted make the airport we easier, dismissed and sometimes a bit people can engage with because often the Ets futile for us, both by the criticism. around the book and whenever I've seen it has been FIA has really made me think a lot. Sometimes it's just about freezing you know or emphasis, which may seem kind of. I don't know 'em like pay and scope of the book, but actually sometimes when you take real,

here too really see what you mean and leave things so properly. Then you can create more understanding and saw the criticism surely funnily enough is one of the most exemplary in an excited aspects. Over as obviously we would see the love it no law, they think I'm great, not snakes too. By the same time, a eyes. I could never have foreseen that I would have become that Pearson. You know that was looking to see what the criticism was was untraced. He done it was well and engage weather, but actually the something about me. I think that conflict focuses my mind. So it's about finding healthy space. For that and criticism of my work or engage in debate and discussion as some was when I get to express something that seems to come natural to me, sometimes a criticism, recognize that there is something

something that always on the periphery of realizing that they feel real legit. I I yeah cashew the. I should have done that other things I feel like there is the other person dealing with a stuff like this is some under a spirit of malevolent, sometimes racism, yeah, there's a lot of thought to let a few things that are happening now that I'm really interested in getting your take on. I feel like I'm you. When I hear what described right. People on the internet talking about left wingers, also feel that they didn't seem like the left wing. To me. that was when I hear that left wing people talking about of right wings, often nationalist, for example, politics. I feel like a different kind of sympathy, a sense that out categories be starting to shift and possibly even dissolve, and I think it is to do with and sank of, talked to a few people about the

If labour listen to cater to and deal honestly with working class, people is meant that there is almost become a redundant political system, dealing exclusively analysis of Europe and care about identity, politics which no doubt obviously clearly has it's place and is important. Yes, but sometimes I feel that it's been at the cost of different arguments that to do with where power wealth and resources are situated. Yeah well, first of all, the like that there are certain freezes, the really dislike, because the so Lord it lay and scope the term cyber not to describe like a twat are scottish nationalist, I think, is unhelpful or even to describe the unionist or even justices of the kind of em let em identity politics because it saw charged, am I think, every for every group, every community has its excessive I now has its problems and has to refine how it gets his men

you go them that extends to the left as well as anyone else am we're I think it has evolved over. The last couple of years has has has mainly been that I started to become aware that sometimes the path I have gone through. Unasur would be set by an interaction I would have on social media, which would then arose, as level of scepticism. The with no sees unhealthy shop, for example, M C. You she had an article online Lane about something like gender rate, which is a life topic, know every know. A lot of people have a have a better understanding of at least hotel approached the subjects even just linguistically. the terms it would you could use it would make it easier for you and navigate a conversation, What's even these issues were just beginning to surface, but were a

for who really already understood them very, very deeply and even amassed so much on them. You know, I think, of academic communities, for example em. So the recess, weird contradiction with the intersection alley where hello actually intersected with people who doesn't know anything about hadn't been accounted for me. Why would you know it seems so self evident that a person's biology, I say then societies of traditional kind of capitalist. We would be inhabited by various factors of that identity to the gender to the race. To other aspects like you, religion or disability is that they may have, or whatever that seems obvious, but but the way that its decision, and certain communities you know, like academic language jargon, not to be dismissed of then, then, like for people who don't worry,

was communities and her associate that TIM with different things like you know, and my community jargon is associated with exploitation and snobbishness, because you have definite agencies and organisations who appear be walking on your behalf, but really the concealing the true mechanisms of decision making from you. So when you have an academic resolve the left common on talking about something as important as an actually now in an academic language and they had an effect on social media. With someone from a working class community has a sense of priority is different and her moral matrix is just a wee but different. Then you're going to end up with a conflict there. That necessarily doesn't have to happen, and for me. What I found was when I try to an US when I try to engage with these issues, clumsily revealing biases revealing my lack of understanding of things finding it very difficult to reconcile my expense

as a young man drawn up in a community where the world that is being told by being told exists by academics and activists. Then you get yourself an issue scrapes and when you get yourself, some scrapes mud get slung, then you start thinking well that action must be as a result of the politics rather than I could just be. A fluke that you have react. You'll have an interaction with people who all sorts of things could be going on for them, and so, as teams went on, then I've tried to look at my initial impulse or reaction inertia, but like my appetite am. I dont want eat these blueberries all one, nor should the m there was a cat cat there. I would eat it straight away. In a farmer bodies. Tell me a cat cap as well

compelling and overwhelming and creates a whole body of 'em a very compelling logic to why I should eat the Kitkat images. On my main to the point it's gone before, I realize that, but just wait for them to observe the impulse to eat the cat cat until it passes, then I'll probably will reach for a blueberry, and I realized actually that same kind of irrationality applies to how I certainly have behaved and social media. Something still do and it's over time of developed unaware must not to dive then, and not just because of the what again isn't scrapes could have been exhausted and social media. and on and on and on- and I certainly like- maybe that is being pursued. I wouldn't want people. I thank the antagonistic to gender equality or any other

The cool is, I'm not am, but the same time then it's difficult, sometimes when you're dealing with people of all different backgrounds, o deafened expedients ANA Medium, like social media Well, that's just a glass ceiling for our rationale could be just can't. We simply can model reality on that scale. You know it's just like it. It's like a b buying an off a window that just doesn't know. There's a window there or a dog been able to hear sound frequencies that we can't pack up or something about social media. That does, fundamental misunderstanding, and that's why I think, like more and more, they are to get in the room with someone and enough phone actual. When I do it myself,

I know situations especially people that have disagreed with nine teams or attain a natural cooperation instinct kicks in, because that's who we are as a species but on social media is different cause. There's no implication for what you say. If you can disconnected you can organize people won't allow easy understand, boxes that make it easier for your routine. Whatever your viewers So, even in the book, the chap gonna have a boat in a so called identity. Politics, that's that that was one of the earliest shop does the rule, and I do think, though, that those look there's a lot. intimate stuff and there a boat some of the activism mean. I know that we have to be very passionate. Sometimes you have to call people. Oh, we have to challenge power but when we do that through social media and sometimes the maybe, things more vinos it we don't realize, may not for example in the book of me, going after people,

when really underneath that was of personal resentment, going on clash resentments, resent that someone else has been talked about. When I wasn't being talked about, Although these things can evolve Tita, you know you ve got tat kind of like. If you really want to be robust- and you really will be asked shouldn't? You really really want a bring about change their money. Potter LEO told the understanding of the issues and the activism you gotta be chicken and mafia, sailfish veil and displaying will take now and then to what what's going on for me today. and that's that that's amazing message and resonate with a lot of baseline working class women is a necessary awareness of yours. I think that would you One would conventional refer to it as you, spiritual state is spiritual wellbeing. I think a lot Darwin about a kind of pilot. Emotional experiences that are available. That could be a cultural it in.

Various ways to do that, like you said there is always gonna, be an intersection between the two, a person One political might miss. I know she. Feelings is being. Underwrite you're feeling socially. When really is a person who experience, I think it's in what he said there about being able to develop a kind of distance between serve impulse and action It's been reactionary online already in a kick cat. I think very very seat is very significant because Latin, an the typical vehicle for that, Adam would have Baines religious or spiritual races. What takes labour as previously being a template for right, you're, human being you alive in the world you gonna die. You can experience jealousy in fear and all these things he is, I have mediate in these experiences. That's kind of been mock takes deteriorate. Its role is being challenged.

many obvious reasons there, valley than evident. But my personal feeling is lost along with that has been the a vital method that human beings require fur. go shape in our experience through life. Now, your personal sir, you in recovery from substance misuse issues most alcohol by that at that use for me, said the abattoir are you catch? You like? I said it. Like a good said, the rustle, I I mean what I found was that as much as you know said is referred, the Alcoa doesn't find much problem can have regulate in that, but when, through the alcohol and in the equation in it and Elsa was taken, would go a control, nobody, you know, wake up and and Lines are already or do stuff, that on one hand. I can recall very vividly, but have no idea why I put myself in that situation, no idea what we

much more weight and may behave you're. Not so would decorously made got up We are everywhere. I went at you know as a as a sort of lake. It is a performing artist and pubs and clubs, and all of that sum from a kickoff something the kick off and it wouldn t myself, because I was goin now with the intention to do that within the more that these things, the more of a role. mutation developed with and not very hyper masculine community someone who needed to be brought down a peg or- and you know violence and meal communities, walk then realize I was subject to the same forces is a law of that guys. I saw a movie though it was above, but actually you know when I, when I drank and when and use drug stain, am for the temper Adelaide. Will we temporary relief? I got from it a

the I wasn't able a modulate my behavior in any way shape or form, and so I've been in recovery. I've been in his recovery Jimny for about eight years, and I've had two two two two year: periods of abstinence from alcohol and and drugs. So I assume, then, that you belong or various support groups and communities, because I I know somebody recovering myself and I find that to be a necessary component, though I also enjoy the I like the philosophy as well, of the of twelve step recovery. I like their lot- and I think it's gonna say redolent as some of the stuff that you've been talking about. I

infantry, taking awareness of your past, the idea that you have gone on, but there are options of how we act in certain situations at that first impulse, that these things also have a twelve step staples. The idea that okay rom fill in his impulse- and, of course there idea that when drinking using you find yourself in situations where ways Seemingly inexplicably, you find yourself in situations of contact, a conflict where your better judgment and bear nature becomes kind of irrelevant to your skills and talents become less or fall by the wayside wakes or perpetuate negative patterns. What have you learned from being in recovery separator and

it has been surprising, good question. First of all, allow me to actually begin to imagine that the war is another way to love. So we now when I was in my twin ease, I was pretty much convinced I was gonna die young. My mother died at thirty six sorts, not surprising. The antenna lies that care of fear lest ITALY, enemy and then I remember identify any alone had a problem, because It seems so much of that and was obvious. It was Lebanon, supported, accommodation and was about to become homeless. I've got refilled telecom fly to follow a staff support workers, have the real entourage, support in all, but just wasn't in a place where I'd anyone say animal problems and their constructed a very, very bad bag, Eagle test, for I find myself from

ali- and it was only at a member- make him a decision to buy a ball of cider rather than by foot but didn't drink, assigned ass? The thing I remember going to get it does to have it in the house. What that tells me, as that was sort of there was a sense of camera that even the alcohol no loneliness. It wasn't even consumer is about just no one was there, and you know, over my alcohol and drug use accelerated are still very far. based on my museum, still very active under community law? a real sense of you know the snowball that was gathered in in terms of air in the longer at the lead, taken action in on this sort of assumption that I'm too young to do anything about that. That'll, be fine, all the classic denials that come annually and then it is, in all things, got rough amateurs

is when I knew I had a drink problem and I tried to stop and I couldn't have those find myself drinking again. I wasn't a fall about drunk, wasn't a kind of slutty speech. why wouldn't go out with a half bore all about fast, at least on me just a couple on the subway, sometimes Look. You know where sometimes I would be walking in the community I remember Runnin away and in the toilet to determine I have bought one then running back to a youth project. I was working on am- and you know these these things to that at that. I didn't see that. kind of abdication of responsible in there. I didn't see that the duty of care wasn't it wasn't only use, walk, a pleasant, an impression people are roaming, you always drinking, but they should alot of compassion towards me. But at this in time what that shows me and something I try to return to. As that and no more,

it's what I feel very certain of what's going on very certain of what I think where I am even whether I'm safe or not whether I know what reality is, then, if I lose through my life, I see exam whose of me not having a clear now have no fuss club that being kind of relative to my sense of sugar. about. What's going on me more reluctant to truly combat any idea. That is attractive to me, because my past tells me that sometimes my attraction to these ideas, as about four or five still for something else, and you know maybe that's me sitting on the fence. Maybe that survey they kind of complicate it overly complicated, convoluted way of of saying I don't no, where what I believe anymore am. But you know these last few years,

by the way, I'm I'm I'm not seen, and the cavity like I'm shout recovery. Ne am I'm share the disciplines, I'm sure it shaded am, and I am sure I am sure I've been there for other people am, I'm out can be there for other people all day, but in recovery and share been there for people and that the thing, though, that that the thing that I've got the most overt so far and then we'll have so long or whether as it my default settings have of changed. So an envelope came through the dollar than what you are just drunk muddy. Folks, no. I sought an envelope, so I've been cave upgraded in a certain sense, have a b slaying functionality that wasn't there before and it wasn't there even before I started drinking. and an even know what I mean, maybe maybe I'm being

I meant it myself in terms of of recovery. Part of my defects, perhaps but at the same time am I mean, can slept and self absorption very easily, especially when people talk to me but me all the time by the same time, offering myself you know my mind occupied by what's going on. Well, people or something and just like thrown myself and someone else's stuff because I understand that as well as that may be of benefit to them. Teach me out of me when I get back cloudy and I at a distance from what legal terms it to be something usually quite insignificant. So recovery has, as has changed the whole repertoire in terms of how I could believe her manager, but where I have struggled and will continue to struggle to get in any sense of momentum was workin these principles at my life on a daily basis,

the one this ball and Vinci. You know what I mean, I I don't ring it down and I'll do some mantras or sit any stuff on my mind as I'm on the go, but I won't get down on the floor under and I can feel the resistance is so strong Russell. That's how I know that's. Why should the because the substances You know you need to do that, get down and I can feel even know recall enough feeling or somethin about me. That's all I I Y C rebellious is after something cool about bases. The goal is just it's like. No that's what worked for me when I hang that's how it speaks to everybody. I think it's to do with having a lot of negative primary experiences of authority that the idea of loving or for a becomes anathema so resistance, rebellion and conflict, because

default. The idea of benevolent loving authority, Adam Kirsch, the document J case he's been Indian around the phrase lot anywhere you picked up in whose law service is perfect, freedom wishes which lay like a religious idea. In God in whose loving service there is perfect freedom of them, not China, put forward an answer Stu K it, or at least antiquated idea of more, Furthermore, any theology, but when you talk too timidly about in a bottle of cider justice summer failure many loneliness this as well seems to me that this of them ongoing or an ongoing narrow, either running throughout the story is this need, for some sublime divine connection or at least transcendent connection, a connection and an adult may necessary transcendent in some sort of mystical, sir stars, and wonder why

but beyond self beyond self are in my recovery are continually surprised but then comforted by a how, in my use in there were attributes that can be alchemist in a positives when I'm clean, like in a dedication, devotion, determine yes to this is the path I'm going to pursue wanting to get out of myself on a crack, my head, open and annihilate a awakening. What, if something unbearable about material I've got to destroy. I've got withdrawing myself a kind of years of death libido. A kind of I want to be dead like that. I feel like the process of recovery, which I think he's just a technique for having a spiritual experience as my my taken, it will find a resource about that is it works, spiritual, a lack of a bigger

Do you see I do get to works is like if you do you get so light that technique will work for you and if you don't worry you not do it properly recovery recently away like that. If you can follow these principles, you can trend visa. Many of these Nicky, even though many of these flaws, these defects we would can alter and also that down at least evenings like that go cause for me personally, the wound hasn't gone are still like. I've been doing it fifteen years, one that time- and I still have days of times of feeling worse fearful, so self send ETA is suffocating, but what I have got to say yesterday when I was like I'd argument on the train with my wife right was we come up here, Scotland, on the train, with a baby

it is the bit where baby baby fell over and bang the Red and Lamb not used to being apparent. Yet, obviously, maybe you never get used to the big bang. Lotta brews come upon rate in the hopes of bewildered by it, but I knew that had to stay. Cool off belts are very blaming and irritated by my wife immediately and just before that had been a woman on the train- is coming up and down the owls, like only peep mad people on trains do similar What's that all of me I could see down, let's face it again, is a perfect analogy. I think sometimes, that life is a train and you can even sit nicely in your c and behave or you can run on Friday. I bought wrapping sooner or later you're going to get to the station and be discouraged into whatever is after life. I know it is woman's of what well Mommy's by so she recognized me and said something that indicated that she knew me

This is a map person, she's pregnant and offer rape con. You, like those two things already a prime indicators of lunatic anyway live ass of some of those are angry, so full of right, but but within the symphony of madness, I could just background haven't awareness of do not act on these failings. Do not act on it. Live in a nice is not drink or take drugs. Don't get too even this point, nor that has become that has become prolong the primary aspect of my strategy, where a lot of thanks and hope- at home and work, or at least known when they act. Like me,. just haven't not moment of awareness where yellower can a menu system to a milch diesel. it drama and all who wants to be a millionaire. Something like a lucky responds. Did you see?

you're right, honey. You know what that does sulk for five hours. Am or whatever and saw, but like it's a scale as nothing. You know when just even talking about your parents it and the whole the the whole dynamic of that? That's that's really, where you re really need to bring your a game. Isn't that what I mean get what's going on. We walk or forget. What's going on, of that, like your cat. Looking is as as instinctively look into it to see how she should respond, So you're awareness not to freak out because she's banged ahead there than that that form of You know the big talks a lot about how the extent of what a child lambs the extent of the degrees of adverse in a expedients,

may be adverse dependent on what you're not is for other people, then the expediency extreme violence still experience the constant threat of violence, which amendments can be more form than a violent act. Them because it is well, is key. expectations and a child that the world is horse day of the people, reliable. The people can be trusted. harm, is eminent dinner also has a strong physiological impact. You know in terms of a you know, as a child develops at that exposure is those those toxic forms of stress, Newman, Australia. The natural reaction is one of the reasons why we have evolved and survived, prepares us for conflict. We become a generalized or whole. A inventory of possible responses to things gets well done, fight or flight, and that makes us very real.

Is that dealing with an imminent threat, but when a child is exposed to an unnatural level over, they become mal adapted to normal. He answers It has been my experience where, as the threat of dissipated as the as eyes some sort of stability on the horizon and life of phone that that those have been most challenging moment because of being unable to take at face value. Because I've got any such power but of a human The worst is going to happen and when you, when you scaled up and community ease the densely populated, were adverse experiences have more often where to keep more problems and more cycles of adversity, and you put a new social and economic and political context, What you have is an engine room for all

the overlapping social problems that we experience in Britain or their experience and societies like ours. But I feel like the role that stress please, as is that emphasized and not well enough understood by a lovely people who might Managing poverty making decisions about poverty? The good thing about now, as that stresses the issue of stresses up again, for people. Stress under remains a person's about, for example, make informed decisions around diet, for example rate. So we'll know what it's like to wake up and be like. Today, I'm going to put an action or less clear thank enough had recently around eaten. So I'm going to start off like a glass of water or get myself going slice of bread

boiled egg off we go, then the next thing like you're in a working class community you're, going to go to the doctors is teeming with people is two hours late. Every two weeks for an appointment and suddenly you become stressed out and if a flight comes in and and your your your whole clear thanking- is reduced to this binary of each cat cat, don't eat the cat cat you could replace the cat got way: alcohol drugs. Whatever you wake, I'm not saying it's as simple as s, but so we each eye in L, a straight for people who sometimes go about baffled as to why some people, when war class mean, ease attempt seem seem to sabotage the leaves are simply not live in accordance with how people, and we therefore think that we should

there is universal. Why wouldn't everyone could cause, for example, then, as because it's because stress on the things that people do manage stress to come for themselves and movements of stress, then, when the stress disappears, what the left as what the life, whether these self insistent gradually feeling common strategies manager and those become the problems for people and a near and an imperial, Inter communal ease and activists, wherever it to be angry about the social conditions which contribute to the m. Now I believe that concern, but the seem too the problem I have? when I got my only fuel source, as is the anger that has me reaching out for the coping strategy. It's the anger, Norway things into mine and get that short, was my life and make me on more unhealthy and it's not a kind of

the book analyzing the definite compositions of different types of anger and is about getting the balance right When you have a legitimate me maybe I'm great I'm home, a Marshall where I got in pursuit of some kind of cool what, whether it be a level of your own family, a well, let it be no broader social issues and we actually have to find another way to take yourself and another, we re Jamaica, thanking thinking because not oh I'm gone legitimate or nor is healthy and an issue in Nagoya. I go any detail or not in the book. That's that's where you know some people in your life, quite understandably, will say. Am this is a corpo in, whereas the corpo or or in angers? What brings change about?

on an that's true to some extent, but I think it's it's enter. Mutton anger was meaningful. Purposeful action grown justice, endless M, expelling of anger and seen everything through. Lanes of anger where you have but faith assumptions about people disagree with you makes more angry ease of what your cell phone that kind of like a Nicole, most certainly that, sadly, that special and others drinking I wanted society bundle like I want is all that I used to have doomsday fantasies know I used to think that we should tell vessel down violently Ray and just begun again and actually at lake I realized. No, there is more I believe, and radical change in a number of areas from the economic system, too heavy engage people in politics to social housing, drunk policy. At the same time, I don't know

just like thrown about born both through all at once, is going to do anything for the people who are most vulnerable because Yolanda become more vulnerable. When the people who are in possession to take the power when it up in the year in order to slow rate, would swim for the boy dropped again giving off ok, I know what I saw a white today, a book that people can use when the Finnish beaten up. So I can't write a book lake there. Martinez who rocky and freedom, which is a brilliant analysis of the mouth of choice in the matter of free Will That way we can Tessier extent em. You know, make decisions, choices are much narrower than me think. At the same time, you can't take that book and a community like pork am and say. Let you go, there's your answer, because the things that people deal muffin

all deference to the analysis on the left of poverty. I see as a sort of similar to how you know scientists in physicists talk about you get the material world subject to the force of gravity and different laws. Of course alley, I'm on. We all understand that and we use those rows to make life more predictable toward into ourselves were finer, and then you have the the world of Quantum mechanics and subatomic particles where things behave differently. and the whole deferent conversation going on about what tat means and this realm and all that stuff. So I see the port. The discussion about poverty, like that, you have the overarching issues- the overarching debate around Economics politics and neoliberalism, for example, and then you have the minutiae of people's daily lives, and how do we think about and discuss the impacts? Are choices have

lay style on how that not only like affects eyes, but the cumulative effect on that of kind of eleven adrenaline to the heart of the system that we want to dismantle me how many activists journal arose going to pull back from the river wish in any mean No, like I start caresses, I'm like I'll, be in Mcdonald's after by diatribe on Facebook by you know, corporatocracy and all of that and ear and and and so the these, these things need can set up, nor that, as a sort of that there is an aspect of self efficacy, and did I see it personal responsibility in conjunction with support, obviously, and and and that's that this stuff. The here under emphasised on your left, a lot, your analogy about physics and quantum Physics there, because I think it about that and is that there is an identifiable other realm of physics, error, identifiable trends and stories that can be observed and account.

it. For, as you look more deeply, you say that there are complex system. Not a buying our rules or the rules, as they of my superficially appear to be. This makes me think of two things: one when you took a rapid area of experiences in polar Kazaa persons possesses mental health issue, substance abuse issues for violence. Was I authentic, in particular, voice to illustrate specifically it's happening in that area and possibly, if you're living in London and Europe to interested in transgender, ass usual your transgender person, then you need to understand that particular experience. Em, like you said earlier,

well my mother, often when you get into a room with someone that you might previous live at a dispute with you find a co operative solution. It makes me feel the ugly social media hasn't is not providing fluid communication base, compounding prejudice and isolationism and possibly what's required now is a sought actual representative democracy, where we acknowledge that there are so many particular experiences, even in a small group of islands like this The EU can no longer have parliamentary democracy as we understand it. We start to see categories fall apart was diagnosis of in a woven narratives. Now that a full, contradiction that has long. I like that. I feel are nevertheless think him and you to grant of so frustration of

dealing, for example, that of service and the easy access Billy. I could even see the kick cap machine in that way. In light there, the the walk, really is, in my view, quite lilies that this is not in. It were an engineered experience. Yes, an engineer experience because it creates a kind of impasse and is quite difficult. I think tat in some moves towards and you are arrived at the idea of personal responsibility, and I I but my my experience is that that's where we have to arrive at as men or women However, we identify rather will arrive at point of our I'm gonna. Have something for you, I'm gonna. Have an inner resource community if I'm gonna beat belong to community or communities by some level. I need to

who's. The man or a victim hood, but part of achieving that mature ration will be having been men ought by people to identify with their further down the path yeah absolutely capital equipment will not live already broken up. Alcatel face I'll, keep things going this one. There is one there. If you want more privacy laws, then I'll just keep on what I might do is just a yeah. That's right! What did he really? must never be bursting for away in a in an interview. Darren is very bad, for people is Russell brand. I'm actually taking this opportunity to just gently blew parisian talked to Janice. I worry about about an hour on me for that Donna we need to do and we could wrapped up there, but we should give our only option in June if we can leave with him. Do you want? Is there any questions or anything you'd like to see covered, given that you're much more of FE the marriage work in May

the story of a you must never apologize for that candidate is such a charming wine, and it's given an opportunity to have a look at these notes which I've worked between us. We ve contrived to come. core expert team out or not the personal responsibility thing is cool. If you don't pretend to care about, person, responds religious fox off to the laboratory, no question about it, and this is a perfect opportunity for us to to what I'm saying as segue to listen. Might this is a question I You say in your musics, primarily I aimed at young men from disadvantaged areas. Do you say that and when I try to communicate them well, No New Zealand, our target name. It was just that that was the community that was most enter the music. I mean, I think, new ideas broadening know what our friend should happen in August and the two hundred capacity? Vain, you afraid, your Paypal nor french

our French are much more interesting than national that gnawed at the front of the maritime, so it will be at and now it'll be bringing together different elements a as well, where's the rap music elements of comedy enormously above rhetoric, but that's new obedient twenty four shoes in an economic damage and actually those other, an arenas where the young men probably wouldn't venture to They take a lesson amuse, you can add, doesn't environments like so did the audience is broadened in but I'm always try to carry a message about war people in we come through an really what I find as I use different fell. and Lindsay's to free and cheaper in certain ways, so that I can be as effective as possible, the stand- and you know it means making com

Might, as you see it in there like, for example, in the book, I talk about an incident and a present where a young guy got slashed over and disagreement about a piece of tossed and what I'm trying akin to. What I was trying to say was that and these community violence is a form of lying. We do right, so it's not moral binary at nor your pacifist argue violent I wouldn't say nice communities can be at you. Don't like Lake language at depends on context to really understand that properly the rover, and also it can have different accents. It can be vulgar, it can be cos. It can be disgusting and repulsive AM and also sometimes it can be quite poetic and so blame depending on the situation. I think I'll be brother punching me at Christmas once cause it was just common and drunk every Christmas. We are by mouth a mobile, a Buckfast, not realizing that he was heartened because I'd been gone for so long

and actually a punch in the most was a thing that cat alight one of many things catalyzed me start can said that an how my drinking was unpacked and other people rather than a victim Mov act. Them all agree about. Two o Britain he'd had distilled it down my father, buck fast, is that the shrink itself into a single vis, a punch in the fangs, a warning shot at work, a woman shot across the bows I didn't fuel it was going get and their fate at then thank them. That's what you ve seen to me, I'm so obviously quite humbling But when I went away until about there I realize I. So this is quite good thing. It's hummed, so the and not context as violence being used as a form of community. No language when the present the person ends up slashing someone over a piece of tourists. We're doing along bed. Who knows for what sort of the sea that someone is trying to weighing them.

in front of people usually is. Are we sort of move themselves up within the hierarchy to ward off the threat of violence? Can everyone is trying to see, don't be violent towards me and a number of definitely is one way has to be the crazy guy figured you shouldn't fought, were so the guy who's last someone over a piece of tourist. What he could be tried as Maggie or minimize. The threat of violence towards some and future not even consciously, but that this is has This is the language that he's land and the community's very fluid and very sophisticated and its really that barbaric. When you think about game feeding, you think but how nations behave and you think about how countries behave. This is an aspect of human behavior. This is something that we do strategically to keep ourselves safe as project. I sort of a project of a readiness for conflict

profession, C4 conflict, because that means other people prayed. The odds are less likely to change, exploit vulnerabilities and saw such you know the violence that the language of violence is something that I get across and bit, but you you have to talk about, I should say on me for a middle class or the instigator if see violence. Foreign language that'll be the kind of thing that people what you know, some people believe some forget it some things: something's inner violence is just wrong violence as such and such that boy, who used a knife and slashed someone glad he's in prison. He deserves to be there and make video B, but because stolen the stand there. tv out of? What's going on that more weeks, the behaviour lightness the idea of violence. Excuse me as a language on like, however, you scale. It is a matter of fact, because it is a form of communication. He said of persuasive form of communication.

I thought in the early stages of learning language. She's recognise the excuse me again. Coffin gets a response, are she's incorporate it offing, Inter communal and lack of american, the sound of sneezing, it's on a brilliant academic, Brad Evans, about violence at international level, the threat of violence that said the growing up in an environment where the threat of violence is a continue. These continue for life. For me that the type of violence is used, the way the violence is described and our interpretation of violence is very significant in the sense that violation occur at the level of language. Violence could obviously is occurring continually when is prohibiting people's rights. Excluding people from conversation and innocence is a marrow taste whether or not slashing someone over slice atolls. These worsen, other forms of prohibit violence, prevent people gain educated, so

Eliza idea, I nothing that's interesting as well that sometimes the people can conceal what really whether the people can conceal. invoking a power, dynamic eyes, sort of all of us working off. I don't know a stronger moral sense. So, for example, someone will see vial This is wrong, but they made because they may be. We have. They may be the franchise they may have more agency and a dynamic, so they can all. Exists there we'll see, over someone else who doesn't have the agency and an and really will what map muscle this more solution is nor manifesto. When people ask me to quit, about how do we redress this deficit between what working class people watch speedy and general understanding, the richness of that the poetry of the understanding, the complexity of the unknown, funding even some of the mad mortal logic behind violence in gang culture, for example. How do we

I can say at the level of the people there the same in me a key or commission culture, but as a sort of lost in translation and its because social mobility dictates that people who grew up don't hear there that the there there also fighting against the gravitational force of the poverty, so how the for them ass, saying than possessions where they could influence how people think about and actually solve temporary solution to a most in this is a policy of a solution cool it by any stretch of the imagination, but even just two key conditions for a healthier dialogue to call for mutual understanding across. politicians of different ideas and an understanding as well of the other you'll see although other up close act, the longer. The other realize that so many instances, whether it be my dealings with like police, for example, when I walked with a violent production unit or whether that be you know, middle class people. Middle class people

am not really given me the time and giving me space to be me and not intervening mullay, but like Ghana's macho, these I'm getting over them, and not me, you see seen them about differently, so so that I would invite that you know if we have cause for. Understandably, we have come. for people up on along lines of identity, even is wanted. BBC and usually does have a. I can't even remember a name now, but when the visit to be about the gender pay gap- and that was all quite rightly going on- she, then chapped and a few days later she was like yeah, but this is also ass actually at play here, never lose about less sort of like really go about less protection, not go about alleged traction Saudi on an and as what WA Others have been seen in the love expedients, because class so nebulous at Swift All these other issues can veil jollies issues of identity in Vienna,

action while analysis sometimes class is not proven enough, although obviously because rightly issues of reach. engender sexuality are increasingly in primacy, which is why I think, should time, but we have also got to think about clue. asked what the body Azhar on some, specificity around what it's like to come from a lower class by Rosa, said my about social mobility. Easy inherent within that interpretation is As you move out of the environment, you eat a necessary to move out environment, as we have discussed. Is that adopt and of a new lexicon learning new rules, you're no longer part of that community, Also, the reason I think it still remains to bow is because I am I Hence is european should a gay rights? Yes, he said like in,

and people will always yield on civil rights issues, and I think I like I'm not wishing to diminish the struggles, certainly not of bloody Malcolm X. lions civil rights, Egypt, but not when it comes to power and finance and obviously ladys in an industry isn't there like eventually rice and it will become about power but like class, is distinctly about economics and absolutely about economics and poverty. So you're a man immediately. That's why I would say that you are more immediately buttressed when you start approach those issues where does it laid at least their redistribute? the sharing of wealth, a Les says breaking down structures and systems that are in place to to to maintain intransigent year when we are on the left, when we think about class, it's about really proximity to opportunity, a relationship to labor

and one try doing the book as key a can of emotional map of the social context, and watch. Surely that's other stop is gonna couch, general so explores but example them why people doing engage and constantly. since a why the cynical about them and look at the grand photo and Sudan night, you had the grand fail action blog, what she'd been rain familiar decade before that fire harmed and never regarded with contempt by a local authority which I too have eat them threatened them. This is a blog that forecasts did it with tee a cast off loss of life before anybody would look and how that boat in me, managed meannesses. This is actually discussed and you can see where my anger is as much I can see that comes from. It is not just because of that tragic incident because by that dismissal of local can sounds expressed, a walk away because

what glamorous? Because people aren't powerful so no one's covered in it? No journalists are there. Until the bodies have been pulled out the Boldin, then it then then what happens as people. They don't become apathetic because they don't care, they don't become apathetic to politics, because the clever ass because they nor Fain will. There is absolutely no fucking point, because the consultations are cause Matic. The decisions already made the cloud and going on it, doesn't matter what you think, the more ways in bout. It doesn't matter if it's your poc. This is go, go, look nice for the people driving in from the suburbs, who will go Frankie and Benny's every weekend, and if you don't like this constellation of a bowling alleys and casinos and cinema complexes on your doorstep extract control. From your community in offering you precarious low paid what an return. Then you just don't understand the big picture, you just

get. The big picture was introduced in Abu ALA. These developments that are ceety does innovation, the sacred US progress and mock him in, for example, the bike hungry monster that was erected on the Moor re Junction that everyone protested next and the graveyard of the school. They got book boudoir the everyone protested. Auditors goes up the road that everyone protested air every area, the community actually should its voice, and we ve got people in our community, occupying community, sandals, occupying swimming pools and people just but ignored, and then ten years later, a male jeez, that's beautiful And taste in american style shopping mall. This designed specifically to arose all those fields of wonderment all those feelings of euphoria. All those things that actively and puts it

and Agua Neil now that Anna heater on the thing about these that so interesting as that you go any time will have been bout, right? Try and find me one that has kept the name of the community, what its Bowen. The one in la scheme is called silver bondage, affectional shop in village and is being created to edit Paul look out of its own economic success story. So no we have two blocks along the mori that no one wanted that was boat and spate of protests every weekend of people trying to get Depaul and they don't know they're going to Polk. They don't know that one port- they don't know that and that community they have no sense of it. There's a little exhibition outside the toilet. That shows what the parks are used to look like and there's no mention of the protests. There's no mention of Colin Macleod,

the EAC environmental activists who left in a tree for over a year, stop it from being cut down, there's no mention of it and and and and the tales or community. It was no point in engaging your community center is no this place where, if you don't spend money in the next half an hour, security guards is going to approach you and ask you why the fuck you're here and you know for me, then that's! That's it that's why people become disengaged, because that's a natural response to apathy is not the natural response, but they just think that as no point, because there is no point to sound extent and that the political class are going to have to wise up that as sooner rather than later, because it's

in summary, ruptures in a society that nor even at people at Peter Mandelson, could have predicted? You know like people was wisest Peter Mandelson, her you know, Stoll wants everything to go back to the way that he thought it should be. I'm not saying everything about centrism is bad. I, like centralism and the ext, it was more tolerance and the medal for a broader section of ideas. You can express views that people, maybe on the radical left with faint and not shocking, You know you would be accused of being a sailor. You would be accused of some form of betrayal em. You don't want for falling. Attain and ideas for foreseen. For example, you know much. She stood disagree with Tony Blair on the Iraq war. There was some other aspects where they seem to talk quite sensibly about things a lot when it an m p p. Ups with yeah, I can that good you do to keep upside

you see what I mean no place at the end of the day. I M, so I think worrisome is not bereft of if a exactly at the same time the people are not. Those are the people who called the keys, those The called the shorts and the and politics should be get wise to the fact that what's happening and also say something they can contain anymore, I'm ended. To be whether it said. Well, it s just one big weave of radical. without that scheme at home, but we need radical ideas, any ideas, areas of social housing you. Why can't we train when president about our seas and then when they get out of my job straightaway building houses because we need our seas and we need people who really ability to present, and so why? Don't you just take the people? Why don't we just take the land and just then it goes way so difficult, but that will meet her recent sets a rhetorical question, and I am I am like what you say near me: about the that shopping center. Was it gold silver

looks over silver burn out, was lakeside. Blue war over the way in cancer of the law? she slowly anonymous utopian terms abstracted from the community, precisely because colony Sanctions needn't be an international endeavour, but color as continue in the night, since the inspired the men, of course, perhaps most, if in our own consciousness, that story of them a mess, Relations, castration the people when their voices are heard. Their voices are ignored, very powerful, and I agree with you there and people. None of us know what consequences are likely to be bought. since this one piecing together a little bit, the

whenever the arab spring. This item Curs explain this to me, is that, like enough people were excited It's social media seem to be this tool that could create a movement by any, but when the power of a vacuum occurred after subsequent revolutionary movements, it was people with a pre. Existing idea like there are a Zammit. Bravo, people, I've gotta. We got an idea. We go assistant mere let where's occupy had some slogans and good intentions in a war beautiful moment it but no subsequent strategy that could be deployed and the like, it is evident resurgence of f, no nationalism and kind EVA willing that bit the thing that seems the most MIRA or express the inner experience he's gonna be the most resident? Is gonna be the most attractive any for your feelings, rage, then rhetoric that tends towards

guy, it's going to seem kind of appropriate is gonna is gonna chime her, and this is what Trump understands well, and this is what Farage understands well and to some extent, as what any politician understands well cause of a politician again after triangulate size end of section in the working class vote to use a battering ram. Before the then renege on all the promises and tail it up more to sort of politically franchised at sort of them middle class audience with the the the what I have found as that political behavior and pockets of deprivation is not always more. They eat by the same things, that more of the other wars. Those are retribution aspect to pose an aspect of wanting to get back at the people you feel of it,

Woody Joe, so there's an aspect of at people voting trump because of FED up with a being lectured and patronized or been excluded and and when you are living in conditions of stress and you're, you're you're consumed by the day to day survival of life and and and and your walk in your stagnant wages and your boss, treating you like shit and and and and a culture that doesn't appropriately a fair reflection. Experience where you feel stereotyped caricature nuances must the cumulative effect of all of that, as this assumption

those people just over mayor somewhere, they had to say in all the shack and they need to have you done chase a hot and the those people are very by the attack. You re not even detect in that field and people on pops far eyes met Metropole and liberal elites up pop trump looking to drain the swamp. You know and Anne and so on, those in unless a notch rate, but I'm seeing a lot of people sometimes mean when you it breaks at, for example, of a world of people are honest. Our people are honest and express regret about how level it after the war by mild because they have been born or the late and then make a blind. But a desolate I'm in the enforcement of the actually boy has consequences lot shit. I'm sorry, I didn't actually realise what was done in the fossil.

It goes like a wall. A guardian subscribe was calling them all sorts of names dislike and they're. Just you know it's they're trying to get back. That's how I'm going to stick it to these. You know like these people that are excluding these people that I think are in control. I'm not saying that accounts for everything and and working class communities. Then you know, I said people have a very strong sense, whether it's distorted or not. You know, even in violent communities, people very strong sense of what's right, what's wrong, even in the Lord's eye, for an eye and- and I think that that does sometimes translate to how people will behave politically and because, obviously I find that hard to see how brexit, as I not interests

in deprived communities me so many of the projects. I know that have brought all of 'em. You know for aesthetically, pleasing stuff to communities, have a rundown on needed, regenerate or sources of employment in or the VA got funded by the your blacks on them or has done in Wales for walk a couple of times and just seemed like everything is he everything and wheels. If you take the money I will suggest I can imagine what it would look like no there's something else. It combines. He gave that money was Saint overly and then it was sent back. that, as some sort of you tell about the EU rate them in the food packaging, for example, that help me now I understand the lobby I'll know the difference between blueberries cats with me, seem obvious de la people am, but I do think that we need close it in The composition of the anger, around breaks,

and although the San LAN Ethno nationals contingent to mean in Amerika, you got people avoid for Barack Obama twice in any voice. maybe a little bit more complicated than simply just that that the ethnic analysis near her agree with Hey we ve been talking out ass. A thing he's been amazing conversation, I'm sorry well to you, except when you get people won't have gone by Gordon. Since most of the people watching, I still have a fuck. Don't have a clue the time so that's opportunity. Me is amazing and it has been lovely talk to a yet immature button, more so than air in length. Just forgive me the opportunity to speak to a bigger audience and they're grateful for that. Thanks, I'm very grateful for you coming on May and to quote one of the great architects of a medium she work. If you don't know now, you know Vice for Emma Jane might have brought him