« Unlocking Us with Brené Brown

Brené on Day 2


So glad to be back! Launching our second season with a conversation on one of my favorite subjects (and least favorite experiences): Day 2! It sounds easy enough, but Day 2 is no joke. It’s the messy middle - the point of no return. Join us as we talk about navigating what's next and why it's always best to stumble through the darkness together.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to unlocking ass, I am brown and I M so glad to be back yard. I missed the podcast, I missed you, you know weird or not, but when I record the pod cast I feel like we're walking together, as they say, mean together or you're running numb walking behind you trying to catch. You are I'm in the car with you or I mean your ears on you know in the park. Our why you're doing folding laundry. I just feel like with you. So I've missed that connection at miss you and I've missed talking to you before we really dig in today to what that means. For us we'll be right back.
I have to say that it is very ironic that the first podcast of season, one was about F, F, Tease, F in first times, like you know, are, for I'm in a pandemic are first time teaching online. Time. Learning online are first time learning how to work with toddlers crawling up our backs while we're on zoom. You know what is like to be in a first time and how hard those times are, especially you don't talk about them, but if we deconstruct them. We can make them better. While this is first podcast of season two and the topic today is not f, F, tease or Athens first times that topic today is a day to for better or worse. I think we're smack dab in the middle of day to and date who is no joke hell. It's even, I think trick here than the beginning. I think it's even trickier than that first step of our cheese, but just
like how understanding the F tee and breaking it down is really helpful answer. Standing day to really helps, and it also kind normalizes what were feeling so let me tell you about day to and how it got its name. For many years we had a training programme for therapist. In helping professionals we do have it anymore, because now the majority of graduate programmes include content on shame and shame, resilience and vulnerability in their curricula which actually not the case just was not. People did not talk about shame. You know ten years ago- maybe not even five years ago, but we're talking about it more and more, and so we don't have this training programme anymore, but for years this is how we brought therapist Slurs into our work, so the trainings worth three day intensive, and let me tell you d,
two of these three day trainings saw ought I mean sacked. So not only in terms of the curriculum day to meant that we were moving into some of the really tell content like shame and an worthiness, but people were also kind of feeling raw. You know the first of anything that the first day school, the first day of training in the first two of your work, you like I get the badge and everything shiny and everything like a new undertaking and there's a sparkle, a possibility by to this is dulled and now you're kind of in this dense fog, where you don't have the shiny possibility of day one or the running tour. The finish line of day. Three securing the wall the wall of you. If you know the wall of your a runner or Athlete of any kind like if you no the wall. The wall is in too.
So here we are indeed too, and this team, these training people are tired and you know it in the groups like this is we're doing a lot. A small group work. Not only do we have the day, two of it for us personally,. Within our groups were also hitting the rocky part of have Yahoo. Of form, is storm norm and perform its firm Search her Bruce tuck in he said he's group dynamics and describe I hope that when a group or team comes together and forms that often rocky for a time all members figure out the dynamics, which is the storm at some point the group be now gets into it, grieving gets protective, that's norm and then they start making real headway which perform, and so even the storm of coming together, as a new group happens They too it occupies the middle space people find All kinds of ways to incur
whereas I will say to resist the difficulty of day to sell these trainings that we had we're always in San Antonio, at a hotel on the river walk in, so it out we would always tell people kept watch them. Rita consumption at lunch. Or can I ask you not to drink while you're in the programme, because you need to be clear, headed and clear eyed, And you need to check in to what it is that you want to know what it is that what's hard this going on for you and it's really funny, because no matter how many times we did that training there we probably did at thirty times They too, is always just painful. Till we could until we started naming it and we would it up in the morning. We all ought to sell, tears would meet for breakfast and we're like ok, come welcome today, to welcome or indeed to wear in one day to at everyone, would like
Do some yoga stretching, and you know how to healthy, breakfast and we'd be kinder and gentler with each other, because we knew it was going to be hard and it's funny, because the therapists that we train that went on to do group work. They would always tell us when they were leaving. You know what I'm mean do three: they intensive with my clients, but I will I'll get back Don't you be simply back about how you know how you can actually avoid the day Tunis of all this, and they were always it back and say: oh my God, Data sucks, there's no way just the middle: it's the middle and hears Here's the saying. Here's the sentence for us, the middle is messy, but it also work. All the magic happens, all the tension that creates goodness and learning. You know that interesting research. That says, if learning not uncomfortable. You know Really. Learning like this
is the seat of discomfort is in day too. You know so again for all of us who were facilitating these three day intensive. We harnessed our superpowers, we learned how to manage it and it's fun because it's very similar to the process that I share my very first podcast about how do you through Athens first times. How do you yet through. That really weird first exercise class or that really weird first effort to do something that you ve never done before, follows the same pattern, which is just a pattern. I think that we can pick up in our lives in general name it. Normalize, it put it in perspective. Then, reality check expectations. You know if we act Did everyone to have the same? You know excel meant level and buzz is they did on day? Wine are the same and test patient- and you know
We never complement. They did on day three. We would get into this cycle of thinking. Oh my God were failing at this training and something's wrong with them, and you know we would probably Europe our energy, which would make people even more day to a like you know so again name it normalize. It put it in perspective and reality check expectations around it. It's funny his day to or whatever that middle spaces for your own process is win were in the dark, the doors closed behind. Us were too far end to turn around and not close enough to the indices. Delight in my work, the military and veterans they talk about this kind of dark middle peace as the point of no return it's an aviation term coined by pilots for the point in the flight where you have, too little fuel to turn turn around and returned to the originating airfield. So you have to go forward
it strangely universal, and it goes all the way back. This kind of saying about the point of no return actually track, all the way back to Julius Caesar S famous the die his cast, which was spoke, in forty nine b c as he and his troops made the river cross, that started a huge war, and I think that this is. I think this is crossing the Rubicon. I think that's the Rubicon River, I think in ITALY, actually I've heard people were fur to the point of no return, as also we ve crossed the Rubicon now and really funny. Has the saying I can't pronounce it I'll give it my shot in Acta ACT. Asked the die is cast. When are you up until I heard the every for decades. I thought Die has been cast like. Like when you're dying, a piece of fabric bud
It's a die as in the single is the singular version of dice, like one cube and thrown ed and its rolling- but it doesn't matter now because it's been cast like it's me- The future is that now, because that stuff is already in motion, it's, you know whether is an ancient bowel strategy or the creative process, or you know a pandemic at some point: we are we're in the dark there's no turning back. The only way is forward and all the time you know most of the time we can't see what that what is otherwise it wouldn't be anxiety producing to be in the middle. They too, were indeed you of the pandemic were Andy too of the long overdue racial reckoning. You know, will start the pandemic? Theirs Turning around there's does only going forward, have no idea how long or how far we're going to need to go, and my prediction
that September October and November are going to be hard as Hell Here's. Why September Believe it or not. Is our new year, as much as we like to think that January is the restart for us. It is not in publishing they call January during the new year new you and that's where they slot new year new, you books or magazine, say its new, your new you, let's run all the staff. That's about you know new There's resolutions and expectations or your leave us in shame, shit storms, but that's all that ass is driven by this. This idea that January's the new year new you, but we. Lee for most of us, the Tuesday after Labour Day is launch. Go to. I'm like that is just in our wiring to be like time to go back you, the kids
in school, they got their shiny, notebooks they're. All sat there still excited, there's too much homework cat, we're back work after the summer schedule. Weirdness we slip into this rhythm, and this rhythm is like as much a part of as as I don't know that the this or rhythm, that you know an internal process that regulates are sleeping, waking cycle that repeats. You know every twenty four hours We're wired for September Like I'm wired to stand and Neil at Catholic Church, like you know, I just down communion pass piece. You know, like I'm, a liturgical girl, We are wired for it. That way, my god, and I hope I am wrong- is that our desire to get back to normal that yearning. That is just why aired in us.
Override what probably makes sense for us to do in terms of containing the virus and continuing to distance and mask you know this was in a crisis, a couple of months ago and our leaders so low, slow. Finally got serious about masks and social distancing and containment. Now is within our reach in the state which you know it was renders here and mostly honestly, due to the politicizing of covered safety measures, but I'm not sure we can stay and containment like we are now I mean if we could. We could safely figure out how to go back to school. We can safely figure out how to move around and I do- We need to think and act, work seriously, to get schools back and in an kids back in connection, but not at the peril of virus.
A virus containment. Otherwise we just go back into lockdown again. It gets worse. I think what probably- and this is just I'm embarrassed to say this out loud. But I want to say it, but I think at least my state, which you know as Mali Ivan sad. I love Texas dearly, but I only discuss it among consenting adults. Feel the same way a lot, I'm a texan fifth generation. I think start making really decisions around football is so think what will see is containment easing Again, and in the ability and the law. Lack of willpower to stay. And so I think we're gonna get, just around a lot like, like in other rollercoaster, that you ride there in the dark the hardest thing about them is that you can't anticipate the terms of the falls, and so you know you're just like in total lock from head to toe, I think we're
get whipped around a lot around going to school, coming back being able to do some more staff that being taken away, and I that's going to be hard when you integrate out with September, let's go back and launch inner cycle. I bet were also can be trying to figure out work and child care and job searches and whipping around is going to lead to probably some law, great anxiety and depression from disconnection were indeed too. We now we just can't turn around now we ve gotta go forward, but we can't see where we're going is the analogy were the space mountain right. This is the perfect analogy. It's like you, I cannot anticipate the turns and the drops and climes and work part, we're like the voice, comes on your ADI strapped in its moving forward and
even though you wanna scream had changed my mind to eight, like you're on the ride, were on the ride, In terms of the fight for racial justice, mercifully There's no turning back We have to move forward and no one knows exactly what that means. What it's gonna take what it's gonna look like. We just know that it is. So long overdue. It is there right thing to do and it's gonna happen and I think there are a lot of us. You know I put myself in that group like there's no turning back now. You know I am only sorry that it took took the so many Americans so much time to reach as the pain and trauma and injustice now that we ve seen it and we ve known at the kind of: let's go back to normal, this is consuming too much of my bandwidth
is no better. No. I love. One of the people that I am reviewed for at this season. Of the podcast is a poet writer activists, Sonia Renee Taylor you'll, get to hear podcasting a couple weeks and she wrote something that so beautiful she right. We will not go back to normal normal, never was a precaution. Existence was not normal other than we normalized greed. Inequity, exhaustion, depletion, extraction, disconnection. Fusion rage, hoarding hate and lack We should not long to return. My friends, are being given the opportunity to stitch a new garment one that fits all. All of humanity and nature like that's where we are.
But we don't know what that's going to look like an chasse. By definition, that's anxiety, producing beautiful, true hard and unknown day too, So what do we do about this? challenging convergence of day were, this for me, where Pixar and Joseph Campbell come into play So several years ago I spent the day at Pixar. I did it hot for all the Pixar employees. I worked with a Small group of people around a specific film and then Have lunch with Ed CAP Mall who, at the time, headed at both Pixar end Disney animation- and of the leaders at Pixar, mostly producers, directors, animators writers, you to understand that this action
it was like a dream. Come true for me, I'm such a Pixar fan, I'm such a Disney fan I just when they to ask if I be interested in in going I all I can think of his. Oh, my god. I shall wear my Jesse cowgirl you outset. That would be so fine. She was like. No, no. I don't think you should MIKE I could go as story just keep swimming keep something like just now and add cap mall his book, creativity, thank was life altering for me. It was chess, profound and I've sensitive our relationship with ad and we're friends and he's been towards me on really important aspects of our story telling took this picture experience with huge for me at lunch this day, our conversation was really focused on this unavoidable uncertainty and vulnerability of the creative process.
And these filmmakers were explaining, how frustrating it is that absolutely no amount of experience or six? ass, gives you pass from this daunting level of doubt. That is a part of filmmaking. And as they were talking, I was thinking to seventy two. This is, I think, you're talking about it to disengage you and all the sudden. I just looked at and said: oh my god, totally related ass. I get this. You can't skip day too. An ad immediately new. I bet I got it. That's what I was talking about and we were completely connected and he smiled and in a way that was like right. You can't skip the middle as we ouch up our lunch conversation Pixar one other writers in the room shared an observation about our discussion, and this is me explain day too, and he said you know day too is like the second act and a three acts story. It's always the
office for our teams, it's where we trouble with our characters and our narrative arc Everyone in the room was like, oh my god. Yes, it was just like a day to act to so tough I got back to Houston. I got this great email from add that said man, you know just that data conversations sent a jolt through, Our room and through Pixar and I couldn't stop thinking about the connection between day too and act to an inn storytelling. So I e mail, Darlin Anderson, a producer that I admit it Pixar Behind you know some of my favorite films toy story, three monsters, Inga bugs live cars and, oh, my my all time, favorite Pixar found by far cocoa and I asked her if she could help me understand how they think about ethics? Are the traditional three act structure, storytelling
and I thought you know. Maybe, if I learn about storytelling, I can crack day to misery and No, I I have read a lot about storytelling everything from the neurosciences storytelling and screen writing. Just I knew there was an answer in here. So darlin explains that act. One thing about this is are the protagonists, the main character is called to an adventure or called Enshiu. A journey accepts the adventure and the rules of the world are established, So when I say the rules of the world are established, it means that we understand kind of the landscape of things. We understand what the rules are. We understand. Ok, I'm black Panther will conduct hidden away, oh, but they ve got material source that people are at you're so there's something valuable and with the Why doesn't know not? We start to understand. How have we the rules are act, one is
also the inciting at the very end of act. One d inciting incident, that's when, should hit the fan. Something really hard happens so listen to what act to us, which I think is so interesting. Act too, is the protagonists looks for every com, trouble way, to solve the problem every the easy way to solve the problem. Ever the way to solve the problem. That does not require the he was vulnerability how can I solve it without being vulnerable? and it's not until the lowest of the low moment happens where protagonist. Our hero realises. I can't solve the problem without vulnerability. We go to act three, which is where the protagonists.
Learned. The lesson proves that, she has learned the lesson we approve at all costs, which is premier, the vulnerability and its all about redemption arc doktor has gone on. This journey has learned about the importance of has had horrible trials and tribulations but has learned about the valley. You of strip it all down and putting self out there and being brave and vulnerable, so I read this from Darla. My first thought was like oh, my god wholly crap. This is Joseph Campbells Hugh owes journey you just Campbell American scholar, professor writer best known for his work on comparative mythology and religion and Campbell found that countless that's from different times and cultures all around the world share this fundamental stage and structure. She calls the here journey or and people caught the motto math like one one, math
And it came back to me because this this whole idea is introducing a book called the hero with thought, with a thousand bases which, every union and Joseph Campbell Book was on my mom's bookshelf in the seventies. Probably your mom's bookshelf for your bookshelf. Families bookshelf as well and now, I read all of these in my twenties re read them in my thirties, and so, unlike, oh, my god storytelling and how we handle stories. This is this can help us cause we're in the middle of a story and we can't get through the end until we're vulnerable. You know Ass, a shot, an email back to Darlin said: hey is my Joseph. Campbell comparison on target, and she said here we were Joseph Campbell and the Heroes Journey at the beginning of every film which is so cool, who knew that? That's like with that thing called in films and Easter egg. You know.
As the protagonist in the story of the pandemic. Protagonists in the story for the fight for racial justice, we can continue to try to solve the crisis in every way. We can imagine that doesn't involve being vulnerable and real. Or we can understand that there is really no way to solve day too. So we get vulnerable faster. Maybe and keep the lowest of the low from happening. Although I think it's already happening continues to happen. Sir Brian and sobriety, we call that a high bottom looking for the high body like do you really have to you? No in depth, state are in jail before you realize. There's a problem like. Can we accelerate our commitment to just being real and vulnerable and saying COD were Indy too, but were not turning back and not turning back is ok, because We have a fight to fight in front of us and in origin,
Get there we're gonna have to strip it all down and get really deeply messy human. When we look at our lives right now, our work, our family. Our faith are friends what we mean to get a little more honest and a little bit more human invulnerable right now. Would we say or ask for you know I think, Around race, the most vulnerable thing we could do collectively right now is own. The truth of our history are, brutal story of slavery and the systems that were built to support the dehumanization of people, if it were we could say, were at the point of no return, thank God. Let's just take it all off and get honest? What would happen? How much faster and how much more effectively could we say
the brutality and make change. I think what Saxon with the hardest part about day, too, is exactly what ad in the Pixar team pointed out that it's a non negotiable part of the process, whether the pandemic or an uprising or a difficult process at work, a fight with our with our partners. Experience does not give us easy passage through the Middle space that again, no what the is experiencing not give us easy passage through struggle? Sperience only grants us a little grace that whispers. This is a part of the process. Stay the course stay the course we're in day to friends again, experience doesn't even give us a little spark of light in this mass right now. It only gives us a little bit of faith that we can navigate it together
most of the time when we are in complete darkness, we wave our arms around to reach out and grab some one who can walk with us. You our bearings, to give his perspective too high onto. I think it's that time, No, the middle is nothing, but it's also where the magic happens. Believe in ourselves. If we reach out together if we leave until little blue- that grace that says we can get through this, I'm so great for the podcast, I'm grateful to be back I think we are in the messy metal- and I think We have two to unlock the path we have to unlock people in that we have to unlock ourselves This is not helpful, is what we do together with unlocking Us you for listening and again. I am so grateful to be reconnected
and I am going to say walking with you through this, but stumbling in the dark. With you reaching out for each other grateful.
Transcript generated on 2020-09-07.