We ve all seen the terrible images coming out of Afghanistan by AIR Base abandoned the cobble embassy evacuated Now everyone just at the airport, with TAT ban all around the rest of the country having already fallen, Biden, doesnt seem to have many answers for any of this Biden. Sex. Mary of state candy guarantee that the president knows what's going on, things have got in so bad even the media are beginning to ask questions. This verdict with tat crews Welcome back vertical TED crews, I'm Michael Knolls, so glad to be back with all of you Thank you so much if you have not liked subscribed left to five star We would really appreciate that, as we ramp up again get ready for our fall tour. All while we ve got this crazy news from wash

Didn t see from cobble its seems as though the American for policy is just collapsing around Us Senator, what's goin on wealth and absolute mess, it is heartbreaking to see the disaster that's unfolding in Afghanistan. No matter how low of expectations you had for the Bide administration, what has unfolded in the last two weeks, I think, has has been even worse than than than anyone anticipated. It's a really dangerous combination of radical ideology and manifest and competence, and I gotta say it: it reminds me of the border crisis. The two are really quite similar in that both are catastrophes.

under Joe Biden PAMELA, Harrison they're both catastrophes because they embrace left wing ideologies that are disconnected from reality. What they believe is wrong and they combine hat with a really stunning inability to execute with any effectiveness and an end that produce disasters it is reminiscent of Jimmy Carter in the nineteen, seventeen of naive leftist ideology and and and blatant blade competence? What so senator? I think it's important to note that these two two sides of it debating what happened in Afghanistan. What is currently happening, but there two separate questions? The strategy? Should we allowed, should we stay in some ground and between them and then also just that the basic questions of, as you say, competence. How is this being on. Could this have been done better? I dont even people, my disagreement, should have happened in Afghanistan, but I don't- any one disagrees

the way in which it happened could have been much much better to let's break down each of those pieces, because I have a lot of thoughts on what the overall strategy should be, but but let's focus on what's happening right now. First, when I talk about radical ideology couple of days ago, I was on a conference call with with the Secretary of State and the Secretariat defence, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff and they were giving an update on Afghanistan and what was happening and it was really stunning. They were laying out the steps that they believed the Taliban needs to take to be accepted, and welcomed into the community of civilized nations and Anna, was truly absurd. I was staring at my phone and disbelief that these folks are credibly naive. They don't understand that the Taliban are theocratic thugs, they are terrorists, they are murderers. They don't want to be accepted in

the community of civilized nations and the entire Biden. Foreign policy is like your ear at an Ivy League college Faculty loud and you and your sitting there musing about well, don't the Taliban and want to be like. by all the enlightened liberals like us, psych. No, they want to move Are you, but you know you used to see this centre out of the Obama administration Brok Obama. mostly, would say the reason that that they are trying to attack This is because they don't have enough iphones because didn't have enough jobs in the streets of Kabul as if nothing else, and mere financial. Innovations can actually impel. Someone to action this by the administration does not understand that our enemies are in fact enemies and in fact it was striking. The Pentagon spokesperson was ass, does the Taliban are enemy and he refused to say like at eight?

located you. Don't you fly planes in the buildings in the United States and killed three thousand Americans your enemy, and we should not be deluded otherwise, but but they combine that look. The people yeah bring in a faculty lounger pretty harmless, but the problem is these guys actually have operational responsibility. Joe Biden is, in fact the commander in chief, our military is obliged to follow his orders and what is stunning about this withdrawal? It is, it doesn't seem. Anybody asked even basic questions about how it would

go about that doesn't seem like they had any plan to evacuate the thousands of Americans that were there, it doesn't seem they had any plan to evacuate, Afghans who assisted the? U S, military doesn't seem the heading planned, a vet, those Afghans and end. It was almost like they were surprised, wait! Wait you mean the Taliban are bad guys and I'll. Tell you MIKE. I think the most indefensible decision of all the decisions in the past month or so concerning Afghanistan was the decision to abandon the bog room airfield background as a secure base. We have invested over a billion dollars into building bog round. It has a airfield, secure perimeter. I've been to borrow my visited. The troops there in Afghanistan, and

we just gave it away about. A month ago, the Bite administration in anticipation of of lead, leaving the theatre decided to just leave and an end, it's bizarre. They did in the dead of night. They literally just one night disappeared. The Afghans woke up woke up, they look around where the Americans they just disappeared. We abandoned bog room and, of course, the Taliban comes in. So now the Taliban controls ballroom. Now the Taliban has a secure airfield close to cobble now. The Taliban has the military hardware that that that the Bite administration apparently abandoned there, and there can

lifting reports, but it appears that I've got a significant number of black up helicopters that we for reasons that defy any art, understanding or article Asian gave to the Taliban, and that was just dumb. Whatever your ideology, if you ve got to evacuate tens of thousands of Americans having a secure airfield with a secure perimeter would really help, rather than relying on a commercial airport. In the center of a big city surrounded by and controlled by the Taliban. Well, There's a report out now that the binding administration is considering launching too it strikes to destroy The very expensive military equipment, though we left at bog, room and elsewhere, raises this question again, whether or not you think should have left whether or not you think that it was always gonna kind of turn out in a tough way shouldn't you think about that before you leave,

the airfield isn't. It just happened to your point, a question of basic competency, and so What I don't understand, I don't I don't just wanted Duncan biden- I don't just wanna it just it makes sense to me that after twenty years in this it in prevention. Whenever you want to call it. For years and years of planning to leave they bungle at this bad, and I think there need to be serious congressional investigations. There needs to be a public inquiry into what happened and, and there are two alternatives, number one the end agents was horribly flawed and the military planning an execution was horribly flawed. That's one possibility. The second possibility is the intelligence accurately predicted what what's gonna happen. And the military planning laid out a reasonable approach to mitigate the the damn

including not handing back room over including getting our Blackhawks and other equipment and and weapons systems out there and the Bide administration disregarded that intelligence in that planning. They they ignored what was put forth. We don't know for sure which one it is now we have seen it's interesting, the State Department and the defence department about leaking like crazy trying to say its door number two they're trying to cover their own reference that none at all. We had this figure it out and the political hacks at the White House disregarded us. So we know, for example, that that that there was a dissenting report from a number of folks state department laying out their view that that the Taliban would take over Afghanistan incredibly quickly if we pulled out an end that we know the political operatives and in the Bible and Ministration disregarded that you know my esteem,

is the same as yours that that our military is usually very, very competent. It's not difficult to think Why are we giving away the airfield before we evacuate people? This is not subtle: national security or military strategy, nor is we'll gosh. Maybe we shouldn't leave, two million dollar helicopters with advanced where weapons systems for crazy lunatic terrorist who want to kill us, listen if we have to bomb them now to prevent them from having those weapons systems. Yes, we should do it bombing them. Is better than letting the Taliban have them and by the way, letting the Taliban allow the Russians and the Chinese to get in. There men and learn, learn all about them that that that's a bad outcome to, but how the hell did it come to this point, what Eddie it said. Well, you know luscious labour helicopters there that the that that needs to be answered, and right now right now, the by

admin doesn't seem to want to answer those questions. I join with a number of senators and in writing a letter to the administration calling for a specific item of what military hardware was left there. What was abandoned specifically and why We haven't, got an answer yet now senator what do you make of president environs excuse such as it is that any exit from asked understand was gonna, be chaotic, oh yeah sure you know, to quote a leaked reported fray, from former President Barack Obama, you never underestimate the amount of effing things up. That Joe Biden is capable of. This was during the campaign I dunno, it seems seems accurate to me, but regard of him bungling it up a little bit more. What do you make of his excuse? that like it was always gonna, be this way Trump campaigned on getting out. Biden campaigned on getting out the tea

Ban were always gonna come in, so you just got to deal with it. Well, it wasn't for ordain that it would be done and competently on the question of Afghanistan, and what should we do? I am someone who believes it makes sense for us to act in Afghanistan and for us to leave bring our troops home and in the war and in this probably good time to sort of stepped back a little bitten and think about foreign policy and approaches to foreign policy. For a long time and the Republican Party there there were, there were two poles on the one side you had. The interventionist, also called the cons, people like John Mccain Lindsey, Graham Marker Rubio, Tom cotton. Sometimes it seems that never seen a country they didn't want to invade. On the other side, you have

The the isolationist most notably ran, paw, ah, who are extremely reluctant to engage with our military abroad. I actually think most Americans did, agree with both of those views. I certainly do an end. I have long describe my views as a third point on the triangle. The way I I d my views is, is that I am a non interventionist hawk. What that means is the following. I think the vital the touchstone for any military action in the touchstone for our foreign policy should be protecting and defending the vital national security and

the United States that we should not be engaged nation building. We should not be trying to transform distant lands and democratic utopias. We should be protecting America. What does that mean in practice, because that's all theoretical, so let's break it down in practice, and let me give a couple of examples from the past and then, let's fast forward to Afghanistan in the past, Barack Obama was president, then, and Obama proposed attacking Syria because they crossed the red line of using chemical weapons. He drawn a red line, Bashar, Al Assad used chemical I believe that all right, let's launch an attack, I initially Michael kept. It open minded that- and I said ok, let me hear the commander in chief articulate how this is in our national security interests, articulate how it makes America safer, and had there been a clear defied mission that that was defending our national security interest. I might have supported that. One ended up happening as the Obama administration was utterly incoherent,

one point John Kerry, said we're going to launch an unbelievably small attack and disciple or cable. Then, what's the point of it? Like light like? What? What exactly are you I do accomplished was basically a battle, show you Bashar you,

barely even notice and it's gonna, be so small? That was their defensive? It an endless, and I will readily concede Bashar sought as a monster whose murdered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. But the question I asked is okay: if you topple is regime, had he has stopped the chemical weapons from falling into the hands of radical islamic terrorist like Al Qaeda ISIS and our new straw, and that would be a much worse outcome that would make America less safe than it was before and and the above ministries and had no coherent answer to that question. So I opposed military action in Syria because it wasn't further our national security and in that way ran Paul, and I were both agreed on that, although for very, very different reasons, on the other hand, when it concerns a ran, the eye of telecom, any is a theocratic zealot who wants to kill us and

believe we should do everything necessary to stop a ran from acquiring nuclear weapons that mean sanctions. That means diplomatic pressure. That means cutting them off on cash and it means if they are on the verge of getting a nuke using military force to take out those facilities, it doesn't mean invade Iraq. try to turn into Switzerland. It means bomb the hell out of them to stop them from getting but they could use to murder. Millions of Americans now in that regard, I agreed with with some of the more interventionist folks, but it was. He too are we protecting our national Security Donald Trump views. If you look at the foreign policy of the Trump Administration I think we're very, very consistent with my views as a non intervention is talk, which is he wanted us out of endless wars, but he was also willing to act vigorously, for example, taking out general, so

money. The leading state sponsor of terrorist in the world an end. If you go back before Tromp Ronald Reagan, when he talked about peace through strength in eight years, the biggest country Reagan ever invaded was Grenada, but he was strong enough that our enemies didn't mess with. So what does that mean for Afghanistan for Afghanistan? I think twenty years was long enough. I think we should not be engaged in a permanent war there. We shouldn't be trying to turn it into a beautiful athenian democracy. We should focus on keeping american safe. That means

We don't have the naive view. The bite administration that the Taliban are nice, guys who love us. We understand their crazy terrorists who want to kill us. That means we understand that when we leave, we need to evacuate the Americans. That means we understand that our enemies will try to stop us from evacuating the Americans. That means we need to have a plan with a secure perimeter that uses Barbara Mare for Space AIR base that that that that protects, our are our black opposite. Our equipment in that and tissue paper. It's a dangerous world. what Biden did is their naive. I got I d ology was married with this utter incompetence and failure to two to ask when we leave what happens and how do we get out in a way that that that we'd out effectively blower selves up right well and so that this actually does clarify? Thinking is certainly for me, I'm not

he ran Dhahran Paul Non Prevention is desolation, is I'm not a job Mccain Bomb, any country that looks at us the wrong way so that there has to be some kind of third option, but it has it. I think it right. In a very serious debate throughout the country. firstly, on the right, Are we a nation model after James Madison, saying that, continual where warfare is the greatest threat to liberty? Washing Jefferson sang to avoid entangling alliances Are we an empire much as we were in the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries? We're we're they go into countries and Working therefore decade upon decade and we're gonna rebuild Korea. in Japan and Germany and were just we're gonna, be everywhere all the time. In some places we are still there so what do you make for the for the hawkish people tat? You know the interventionist types, the mediocre who are today saying, look Afghanistan, we we didn't have a whole lot of soldiers there we were.

trying to keep a strategic location, maybe fend off russian China, if we stay there, forever. It's no big deal what? Why would we leave yet look? I don't agree with him in and, to be honest, its most of the Republicans in the Senate fall into that camp, and so the arguments that are being made directed at Biden are very much directed at. Why did you leave? You should stay there forever in a lot of the Senate? Republicans believe that I don't I don't I. I think that makes sense. I think the american people, I've talked to too many soldiers and sailors and arrogant and Marines, including stationed in Afghanistan, when I went there to visit them, who were ready to come home and Anne and keeping them in harm's way in perpetuity. I think the threshold for sending our sons and daughters in harm's way should be very, very high, but where I differ from the isolationist, where I differ from the naive liberal,

of of of the Obama administration or the Biden Harris Administration is, I understand, our enemies are evil bastards who want to kill us and the way to avoid military conflict is strength. You know, Reagan talked about peace through strengthened its very important insight when you are strong, the bad guys want to mess with you when you're week, you end up getting in many many more fights, because they do not fear you an enemy, anyways the worst consequences, what's happening in Afghanistan, not even the aftermath of what's playing out today, but what's going to come in six months or a year, because every enemy of America's watching this she in China is watching this and one of the consequences of Biden's cluster in Afghanistan

is the chances of a chinese military invasion of Taiwan have just increase dramatically I already told us that it will. Yes, there are there. Actually, a tweet from chinese state media that that was directed, sensibly, Taiwan, but it was obviously really directed at America and it said, look look at what Americans role do they're? Not come running when we invade you and you'll give up pretty quickly because of that weakness China is in bold and because Abiden and in and Harris as weakness, Russia's embolden, because Abiden Harris's week this north Rios and Bolden because of Biden. Harris's weakness it ran is involved in, as is Hamas and Hezbollah. Every enemy of America is celebrating right now because they see the president as week and that is very, very dangerous, and it's what the left doesn't understand. Weakness is provocative. Weakness invites attacks, there's a raise

Michael that nobody goes to study and get a degree from the Neville Chamberlain School of foreign policy. Appeasement is a really bad idea. Yup, you don't have to go off the way to the other side of, let's always invade, we have lots of tools. Look at our Reagan took on the Soviet Union. He didn't she away from engaging from calling them out from calling this. union, the evil empire from Say Marxism Leninism, would end up on the ashes of history. They asked what your strategy in the old war said very simple: we win, they lose and people were horrified that the enlightened left like better you can't win the unique Detente Unita sophist. hated solution. That never does anything Reagan use the bully pulpit of America's leadership.

But he didn't send american troops in the fight, the Soviets. He didn't. Role are tanks and he stood in front of the Brandenburg Gate and said. Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall and our economic pressure are military build up. Although we didn't use our strength Our strength and our clear moral leadership cause the Soviets. In a collapse. Biden is reminiscent of Jimmy Carter, is making the same mistakes, the same weakness and- and when I look at Afghanistan I fear the most where we will. in a year whether it is China invading Taiwan or ran announcing, they have a nuclear weapon or, or some other or horrific example of our enemies being emboldened by as our president is weak. This reminds me of a line from my old professor Donald Kagan, who just just died about a week ago. Wonderful,

historian of ancient Greece, good military historian and you be reading, lucidity is the Peloponnesian war, and he said okay, here selling. No two hundred is right about this point because it would have happened in the breeze when schoolyard at this idea that, if you're strong bullies are not going to feel emboldened to attack you an actual. You will have a sort of peace through strength now is the point of moral leadership- and I guess that's the core- turn that is on everybody's mind today, because I think your take on where we ought to be. On the pole of isolationism interventionism, I think you are offering one of the few sensible takes I've heard out here. You know that that its action The more complicated we're gonna we're gonna pursue energy that is in the interest of the United States. What you see Biden is too so total absence. It seems of any kind of strategy at all. So then, the question for us is rather the cold war.

we're out of the free will and Ninetys, were now passed the Bush years and War on terror would understand the Middle EAST forever. So so what determines when we enter? What determines when we stay home, who Who are the enemy? We're not fighting. The soviets anymore might well be fighting the Russians, but what is that that grand strategy that will will determine how we react to the rest of the world? Well- and I think the right answer to that is- is protecting- are vital national security interests. So the apple. I use of the Ayatollah Khomeini on the verge of acquiring a nuclear weapon, he's a theocratic zealot who chance death to America. If he had a nuclear weapon, the risks that he would use a nuclear weapon either against us or our ally. Eyes I think, are unacceptably high, and so I would emphatically support military force to take out nuclear capacity. I also supported military

was to take out general ceremony, which trump it was the most significant use of military force under President Trump. Yet all also point out at let's go back to two strength. Let's go back to the prom whose abiden in Afghanistan and in and see how they also apply to Obama in Iraq and fighting ISIS January. Twenty. Seventeen trump comes into office Obama's been fighting ISIS for years, very limited six ass trump comes in, and I remember it was spring of twenty seven times, like March or April, and I run into two general melodies now the chairman of the joint chiefs at the time he was the army chief of staff.

and and I've known generally a number years and and we're talking about Iraq and the fund, the war against ices, and he made a prediction to me. Then he said by this fall. So for five months from when we were talking, he said we will have taken every square inch from ISIS, their caliphate, we'll have fallen, they had at the time they controlled land about the size of the state of Indiana, says we're gonna take every inch of it and they will lose all of their territory and- and- and I asked him at the time- is we're just a few months into administration. I said general, what what's changed. I mean. What what why is this difference? Is it? Is it the rules of engagement? Did they change and his answer was fascinating because it actually, they had not changed the rules of engagement. What had changed is that, under a bomb decisions of engaging the enemy,

Went all the way up the chain literally to the White House, to the National Security Council. So when you and encountered the enemy, you would have some bureaucratic Vienna see deciding whether or not to engage the joke in in the Pentagon, as they called Susan Rice, the National Security Adviser General Rice, because she was deploying troops and moving them here. It was like a game of risk sitting in the White House, thousands of miles away and properly on made one very simple decision he delegated decision making. down to the war fighters to the wharf It is on the ground so that under Trump, when you encountered this terrorist you can just take em out. You don't need to wait days for for white

approval on that specific interaction. If you encountered the enemy you could take them out and within months we defeated ISIS that same principle. If you look at a contrast and by the way, once we defeated ISIS Trump, I think rightly said artless get out. That is balance that makes sense a be strong and vigorous when you are defending our nation, but don't leave our soldiers in harm's way permanently, don't lose sight of their mission and the weird thing Michael I think the over wellmere majority of Americans agree with that. I think it's a mean you're looking at seventy eighty percent of Americans and virtually no body in the. U S, Congress agrees with it, it's one of the oddest disconnects between the voters and our elected representatives and want one final point. One of the challenges of foreign policy is, when its discussed on the news, its

dust fifteen second soundbites. So everything gets sort of simple and binary you're either always invade or never invade, and this stuff. Frankly, I think these topics are much more suitable for something like a podcast where we can discuss something in a little bit more depth to understand that that you don't have to have a choice of zero or eleven that that that you could in fact be strong and at the same time judicious about when and why use your strength, you would hope that these kind of conversations that poorest the nuances that right in nice. That different situations will four different american responses recognised at all. situations, call for basic confidence. You would hope that. We can discuss them on a pod, cast that it would be too in that way at the White House State Board the Pentagon, but unfortunate in the past couple of weeks we have

really seen that and talk about the disconnect. I think the american people, one of the few things truly united everyone in the best several years- is that this was just completely bungled well, minimum someone at the Pentagon or the wide. How should I said hey? Maybe we shouldn't give a bunch of black hawk helicopters to the Taliban. You would think that would have occurred to someone on that audacious met. Her again sort of grand strategic idea. Maybe we shouldn't be given Blackhawks to terrorists. We ve got to leave it. There will be much more to talk about coming weeks, but that's all right now, I'm Michael knows this is verdict with. groups, this episode verdict with TED Crews is being brought to you by jobs, freedom and security pack, Apple

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