Hi just think here, creator of welcome tonight fail and Alice isn't dead and I created a third podcast. This is my first nonfiction podcast. It's called. I only listen to the mountain goats. It's for anyone interested in the constantly shifting line between fan and artist. I wanted to are you the first episode now? If you enjoy it, please do subscribe and also please rate and review as that helps make it more visible to other folks thanks they

say you shouldn't meet your heroes time, I'm Joseph I'm a novelist and the creator of the fiction. Podcast welcomes night failed and Alice isn't death, and this is I only listen to the mountain goes to show where I meet my hero, hang out with him in his basement and have conversations about songwriting, art and life. I've loved the ban, the mountain votes for years, the music of John D, Arneil, singer and songwriter. If the group has been with me through some of my toughest times and happiest moments- and this is a show where I sit down with him- to talk through his work song by song- it's a show for families of the mouth goes or fans of night fail and my other work, but it's also for anyone interested in what it means to be an artist poor fan poor. As many of us are both at once this season, we will be covering the two thousand to album all hail, Wes Texas, certainly the only number one billboard charting album to ever be recorded entirely on the built in microphone of a blue box for every episode. We will also have a cover of the song. We are talking about each one by a different artist and recorded just for this show. Let's go now my conversation with John, in which we will talk about the first song of the album, the best effort death metal banned in debt

So it's really weird and a lot of ways to to be. Finally doing this part cask is, I think, a told you this before this is an idea I had here. Citgo and I'm honestly turn remember how many earth, probably at least three or four years ago, but was D purple, but with deep purple. It was a completely different show, a lot of ways. It was also just it was like a script. Accommodation is called smoke on, the water has caught smoke in the water. We sound both a little tired and a little relieved to be talking going. I had flown down to Durham North Carolina were John. It's late. The night before we were the post to record starting that morning and Johns Office of professional situation in chairs, but we had spent most of that day dealing with technical problems and forever if reasons we ended up talking on a mattress in the basement of his home, surrounded by old touring, guitars and boxes of the master tapes of his albums, you

Occasionally your basement noises water rushing through pipes, his kids running around upstairs it's a basement, not a studio, this idea of the earth. A version of the show was that we would collect all of Sun You'd ever officially released right, assign them all a number and then use random number generator. She just sign one of them tell well, and they won't be to choose or no beforehand J would just be like yours, you, son artists, with love that are all very open to that kind of proposal, very easy going, especially musicians than ever. They never say. Oh, I wasn't thinking about doing that. One and then but it said I decided to go through one album of yours in order, because I think in a lot of ways, it's an interesting outcome to start with, for a show like this sort, I've been going through the album all hell, less taxes which cause every means we get to start with. I would say, arguably the most popular

one of your most popular songs, which you say it's a five. Certainly among the people like it, we do then is is a big one. Are we go much further? Let's listen to the original album version of the best. Death metal banned in Denton,

the best ever a guy great wondrous, sirens practice twice. The best ever ever settled in ten weeks were saying these pillars and not ass Mental Cyrus Harding lines. Origin may spread their ties with silence godsends. Why right ran a plan d get when you ring is not the best really saying

because I dont think I pleaded hardly at all on the, and there was really an official or here was Texas tour I didn't have to us at that time. I just went on to her It was time to go into her, but I dont think I played it much for a long time because it was tuning that I hadn't preserved so nicely Rob de burning. I think that's right. Thank you very much. Lily tree has brought an ice coffee you're the best. Thank you so much we're gonna just leave all of that and when, so we don't believe in fixing imposed. Even though, getting right next to the rules under which I was Texas was transferred at tiny telephone by Alex Newport, and there was in fact a lot of equal work done. It's not exactly what was on their cassettes on the cassettes needed queuing, this kind of trying to think about this

on a musical level, which are a, I know how to deal to a certain extent. My father was a musician and music from a young age, but I was never great at music theory. So what is all turnings, isn't that unites play guitar I've played Qatar for years. I've never gotten to a point where I feel super knowledgeable about the instrument and alternate turnings is always like the line that feels like. I don't know enough to understand, even where what is like the advantage, What's that understanding standing is actually about taking your understanding and skewing it? Alot of that are independent of your David Cross, is a profoundly accomplished guitarist, whose ability to where's harmony and whose understanding the service at this extremely deep level right, so what he does not returning he's got reasons like why he wants to be playing on a certain area, the fret bordering yours. It is no satisfies only needs methodically, but for a lot of us, including me. It means I don't know what I'm doing then, and that can be really good right,

How do I make this making, of course, to make us all so like by returning? You are just forcing yourself do not really know how to play the instrument again, you're taking away some really know how to play the instrument again. Everything there is some of your knowledge, which is. I think in writing and everything there is always various knowing what you're doing, but if take a little of control away from you. I took a little something away and force you to think on your feet. Right, you resent it. You may enjoy the process less, but you will probably find stuff you weren't gonna find out, and when you find that you'll be excited, because you will know I wasn't gonna get there by myself. It similar to kind of why I'm super into using random number generators guessing it's, because it forces you in two directions: ideas that you want. You want of tax otherwise, I I I do a lot of my work by random number generation. Creative forces you to make decisions. He wonders

I can only offer one experience the music of the mountains Mile, so I wanted to also bring in other artists who loved the ban as much as I do now. When it comes to famous bands of the mountain votes, they don't come much more famous than John Green. He is the best selling author of the fault in our stars and the upcoming turtles all the way down. He sold more books this past year than I will in my entire life, and he is, and the unabashed and absolute fan of the mouth gives. He also is an incredibly nice person and he and John DOE Neil both helped me significantly when my first podcast was just starting out. We talked which, on bringing about the best ever death metal band, Denton Ass, well, ass, the newest, album from the mountain goat called Goths, and the Bible passage to Corinthians, which I read, give you some context for this narration, but frankly I think, maybe I'm just to jewish to get it. I should tell you that we were speaking on a day that trumpeted something truly equally strong and know that doesn't narrow it down a great deal, but I just wanted to give you some sense of where we were all add when this recording begins.

Yeah. I mean I don't wanna that Donald Trump Control, my every thought, but he kind of does This is the thing. Is they One of the virtues of this is that, like you know, I was thinking about it you. Why am I angry today? Well, it's because I love Jesus Christ, and he tells me that you know I have of people all the same right or when not answering the call you know and and when you wake up to find somebody who's. I've done something like the exact opposite of we then I know about Jesus right dear, but who also is claiming the mantle of the very guy, who tells me not to be as he is amazing. Its is it's a burden. That's it's really yeah. I know that we will all I can say. But may I know that we will fight the amateur, What a friends who have been suffering since November fifth, and in today's vote we are different in the act of the same way.

I also I feel the same. Frustration of feeling, like my like my faith, has been hijacked but also like it has been hijacked in the most illogically indefensible way. Yeah, I'm in hijacked by the guy who read too Corinthians, it'll take Corinthians. Everybody's a guy were literally has never cracked the book open, and I mean you can you, of those things. You don't need the Bible to know that failing a bunch of people because of who they are. From the same, I believe tat. This is not a bit question. Is this what you rating? Is it your for sure if you believe the basic precepts of the guy who got in I'll do a tree number one? Is you don't deny anybody The table is like this. This is a central teaching of the deal is that everybody is invited yeah, so I welcome to I. This amount goes where we talk about Jesus Christ, Quest John High, It's so good to hear your voice. It's been a long time yet getting here,

boys do, although I have been listening to a constantly. I I've got completely I forgot. You are for it initially. You know in the usual way that I fought for mountain goat, sound, but now fallen for in a deep hard takes me back to a place that I haven't been able to visit and need to go to it's just just real special thanks. Re proud, it's it's my favorite and the new ones, always material, but you know, taking the guitar that we just just one, is talking about formal limitation. So you take something away from a musician or writer. Yes, new places open up, and when I Well you just don't even taking it out of the studio. What I just don't read it, so new stuff came in there. There's just so many little moments in those songs that, because I will the Gulf kid and ninety ninety two in land Florida wearing a trench coat and a hundred ten degree he'd. Just it's a really it's a really great gift. To I don't know

This means that I'd really lost touch with so called Saint Nicholas Huge here thanks, so Thank you so much for joining us, John. Oh, it's a boy there d be here and to talk about the first mountain goat song I ever heard is mostly just one year. I wear white: where did you hear it won't tell us that tells the story I was in a hotel room. It was in New York City. It was this period weird period of my life after I dropped out of divinity school, but before I, you know, I got a book deal or anything and swells and assist in that a magazine and blogging stuff, and I had a blogger friend who I went and visited in New York City and she said, have you for within the mountain goat and I said no, and she said you should really listen to songs you play with the song. Like a very gonna cliche romantic way with one year, but in my ear and the other ear, but in her ear and I was the first song that I Listen to the just like made me cry, it was so

If a romantic occasion with this person, I was with an array They ruined it, by bursting the tears, sob and rode on people's romantic stuff. For you, I made to prepare a sheep played you. The best ever death metal bear like it's not the most. You know more of songs its cause. It's it's possible. I was misreading. The situation is to begin with but yes, oh, I remember she plainly that song in areas like who are these guys, and then she told me that that is called a mountain goat step out and was all hell West access we're back to Chicago. The album, and that was the beginning of it for me, is trying to Think if I remember the first song I heard, I think it was probably the name of the first track on the sunset tree, Are you your memory? Yes, I think probably I was like someone was like. You should listen to this album, and so I did so in the

When it starts, I stepped into a bargain, pursue absolute later, that's a great song is a very good sign. This focus is going to be weird for me because, like I'm, not I'm proud of, I do, but I always try to change the subject of people. Tell me that myself is good extends. I wear the people's we're just gonna, be eliciting songs and then saying that it is really awkward, though, to basically be the co host of a mountain goat fan pie. When you are yourself a mountain goat, its will inevitably wondering about it, because I totally do you obviously has a good said: yeah. Nobody, saw Christine fellows rest. She was amazing, hey it's a free podcast, you know what that means. That's ripe ads. They help art happen and put food on artists tables and define the kind of advertisers you're going to want to hear from, and that will help us keep making the show. We just need to learn a little about who you are. We have a quick anonymous survey. Pod survey, dot com

slash goats. This will a long way to helping advertisers, see how great all of you are an by completing the server. You can win a one hundred dollar Amazon gift card. So again, this is genuinely a huge help in an easy way to support the show, don't wait just head over and take one minute at pod survey: dot, com, slash, goats, John, and I are so grateful for your support If you're like be, you are often too busy to shop for clothes and definitely too busy to take stock of your style and think about what might look better on you. Well Bomb fell, is an easier way for men to find the right close for them. It's as simple, as can be you complete a questionnaire. I think it took me all of thirty seconds and then eight. Indicated personal stylus hand picks pieces specifically for you, you take a look the selection and have forty eight hours to make changes or cancel altogether you're in total control the whole time and only pay for the close you keep you have

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I went back to Chicago and I still had all these divinity school friends you know like, and I was always trying to explain why I had dropped out of divinity school and why wasn't gonna pursue the ministry I've been on cut on the track to becoming a fiscal minister and several times over the next few months. Like a friend would be over my apartment, and I would be like I wanna play. You him that I have recently. That is like the Ask him. I've ever heard, and I would play that song and I would be like I think that is like a proper we good here. Even though it ends with like Hale Satan, Hale Satan, and they did the field difference that I had, I think with with mighty. Ultimately, was that I still think that that song is a great him, even though it entails aid inhale Satan years. Why? My first religious songs is the thing is a good one that I remember tracking this song. I remember

that was a very productive weak. For me, my wife was it hockey camp in Canada, and I was alone in the house. I feel like internet was fifty six kay. At times so sitting on. The computer for nine hours was not recently did unless you are very hard Corso. I wasn't I was like I was working my day. Job knows writing songs. In my spare time I didn't have friends, because do I are our friends and her I was right- only songs while she was away for a week- and I got this idea. It was after work, it would have been like IRAN dinner time. I didn't have an ending for the song and I was recording it to see how it sounded and see where it was going. And the hail Satan wasn't written down it was it was. It was a spontaneous eruption, but it fell. Like a religious confession. We now Obviously, you know the dark principle that people talk. They are the Satan, John Milton Satan. You know, what that means. It means

it was of two people being true to themselves he's heard, say it's a celebration of that that later satanic principle of of of self knowledge, which isn't really Satan at all, it's actually godlike I've. I've found the the hell Satan really interesting, because I think the song The whole isn't lot of way. An angry one, but to me that Satan always feels- and maybe this is the context that you experience, but it feels very joyous to me was in it. Option is it is it? Is it transgression, there's always a little joy and transgressing. You know, there's always a good feeling to break free from something here you supposed to especially with something complex thing to say here: Satan is no it's like of course you don't, even if the Satan The popular imagination is real, the no one really worships him because would be a person who will torment you his whole. He will find the thing that makes you unhappy and make you unhappy, but there

I was eating means in that context. Right it gets its different I can really add also. I think it also means that community. You know the community people who love death metal and make it together and how that community can kind of hold you up and and in so some of it to me at least, is a celebration of that which is very real. A powerful and wholly that's one. Things I've always loved about that Song Joseph. Ever been at a concert where that song is played, and then the crowd takes over and keeps like. Chanting Hale Satan, Hale Satan after the song is over. I have not that arms. Amazing, though this does not happen that

so I tend to leave the stage after the little rave up into the band plays on for a while. So I dont I I didn't hear that's amazing, to think I'm trying to think of how to phrase this in a way that is loaded in terms of forcing you to answer certain workers day. There there's a lot of ways that- could be true, but I mean do you feel like encountering music like this affected? Your writing Oh yeah. No, I mean the mountain goats huge part of every book that I write gets really dealing years ago. Listen to all I write mountain its fans who read my books, find little Easter egg. In in them from this that I was. I was listening to a little phrases that that all used from the song so yeah, it's a huge part of my arm. My writing but I mean honestly think about awkward a I know way here so like a little awkward to talk about this. But to be honest with you, it's the most mine

art in my life, for my whole adulthood, its guided the way, I think about being a person I think about being a person in community how to Imagine the lives of people who are distant from mine or feel distant from my and also you know there is there- is a thing that music does really really well, which is that when you are alone and you're scared- and you feel and heard or on here a bull great muse take the right music, for you can make you feel less alone and can make you understand that on that that you're, a you know whatever going through is not unprecedented and it is not without people who feel compassion They told you even if the very far away, and and even if they, maybe I don't know you that aid that they still that their love for you. Genuine can like reach across space and that something

always feel. No. When I listen to the mountain goat, I always feel like I've heard, I guess the huge yes thank you. You know I'm always saying When I was a child reading the authors I loved and listen to the music I loved you know thing I got from that is what you're describing that that feeling of being understood, somehow you know by a stranger in that weird connection. You know it's like where's, not the poorest, it's not. The stranger is the thing they have made. That opens the space for self reflection. For being able to see yourself through now I assume that a huge gift to you that thanks there's that mine, I don't wanna misquoted. How is misquote your we're? Ok, I can totally I didn't get to be a teacher, so I can one hundred percent correct neck. I'm just gonna! Look it up its quota correctly. You have the internet a bit over there, there's that

is that heartbreaking line and hast thou considered the terrified. Where were you write, hoping you don't break my stereo, because it's the one thing that I couldn't live without so then I think about that, and then I sort of black out music reed is that for a lot of people, you know and and I know I know it but cut off, an overwhelming responsibility to be one of those bands for a lot of people, but you are It is a blessing, though, is a sort of its genome and theirs. Responsibilities or are gifts there. If you have your own, then you know, that's it That, for me, is a is a hedge against the dark places. No. When I have a responsibility, I can be us it myself, you know- and I think that's that's all What we have is about is like is like being able to make some connection where you have some, bigger than you take care of that right. That again is a huge blessing to me.

I mean I feel the same way it with my work like that, it's a gift extra and you know that by by them Trusting me or or truck trusting my work. It also makes we get up in the morning and want to do. It makes me you stand that I that I have to do it and knowing that is really really good for me, because otherwise there there would probably months or years when I wouldn't probably get out of bed. So I agree it is blessing but but it is also you know it's it's a lot to hold its a lot but I have a therapist happy too. I don't know it's like I can see when I depressed years. You know within it feels like, and those are the, but even now I know, if I may, space than I don't If the dress you my friend and play, I do what I do, but I trend tell them right, they contact a little bit so that you know if you're not head space but but but for me you know it

that's one of the things that I have been constructed somehow to do is due to be able to stand in that space at its right. For me, it is because it's giving back, because I can't anal I can't even begin to list the musicians who were those people for me. You know who, whose music Amy grants so you're senators over there I'll never get tell her. You know what her music mentally. Two thousand and eight or nine, but I never forget it. You know. Is it so to be able to stand on the brink of the abyss? As for somebody is an honour for me, yet it is an interesting thing. I think that anyone who become, said artist that has any following at all has to confront, which is that people feel about you? The way you felt, bout, others, it's weird suddenly being on the other side of that equation and it's an interesting thing to process. I think, to try and understand it. Also. I

maybe makes you think about the people making the art that was very important to you differently. Because we suddenly realized they were just me. They were just people like that. The work important, but there is this moment we realise that, there's no this untouchable barrier between you and the people making the things that meant a lot to ideas? A nice moment when you were you realize that that that those are also this human beings and also as a musician, you learn to listen, also to the drama. You know the base, I was an immigrant records. Alot of people, listen anybody who performed under a single name, because o David Bowe we did. The lawyer, whoever right, but but it's not just them such as me. That's why we're the mountain goat, is like it is not John D reaching out touching you, even if I'm the only guy on the record, is in total of a bunch of other stuff that I brought to the table. When I sat down to write, you know it's not, it is not. Wizard in a tower with his last copy of the book of spells. You know,

spelled only, he can do it's a communal exercise, even if it takes place in solitude, which is I think there's a lot of that in my business people who are by themselves reaching out to some, place beyond, yeah. No, I mean that. I think that so true, I think that's so powerfully true there there's this quote about Shelly that someone said that have never been able to track down since college, so I might have made it up and if I made it up, I apologize. Somebody said of of of Shelly: now there was a cry Acta vessel, shown a lot of light, how the idea that part part of it is you who, but part of it, is just but if you can do it through the cracks, within you. If the I can shine out and be helpful to people. That's the work and that's not. Really in the end like Does it really have anything to do with individual genius? It mostly has to do with the cracks we and others. There's that that's the I went through my

of horror about that in therapy. You know about thinking. You know whether, if you could make yourself perfect life you know or restore the gaps between the new transmitters that that that cause you do too. All into was a bore his palm about this time, always quoting he observes that the good thief I'm trying to this wasn't without crying the heart of the good. He's the one who is crucified to the right of Jesus, who won one guy says to Jesus. You know what is wrong with you curse. God who is obviously failed? You hear sitting here dying bleeding and your bones are broken. You life is terrible right now, so admit that this It is a loser and the other thief. On the other cross says you be quiet, insisted Jesus? I'm Jesus do this this is remember me when you come into your kingdom. And she's a sure. Absolutely bore his points out.

The same thing that made this guy a thief at the same thing, that dragged him into pits. Inequity and they made him up in person at the person, a lot of people's lives right made him a person to avoid right, but this M tendency is the one that allowed him to seek and gain paradise right there it is broken. This eventually leads him to freedom at the death. Most of you did, you know the Leonard Cohen learn condors aversion. That line is the ones who ve cracked the light shines through there that idea so powerful, because one of the hard things for me is that I want to make it about me right, especially, My books, you know like I want to make them about me, and I want to put myself in them, and I have to fight against that fight against that fight against that and one of the ways to fight against that is to remember that lake, when it's at its best. It's not you it's inclusive of uv ass. Now

it's not driven by that's our thing to communicate to other people, especially if you're a musician standing on a stage that elevated to secure a bribe grave in this here offend. Stance either. But it's not it's its communal. Music, especially has always been communal, like recorded music, is a very strange blip. You no prior the invention of recording. Nobody ever would have thought. I'm gonna go home and listen to something by myself. Nay was under. You did together. I am I have a very strong love and memory of a lot live chosen and me I kind of blends music and theatre in that way and that its less about what's happened. On the stage and more that at a really good show, whether it's it's a play or a concert and another this feeling that it's not so much about the work that was intended stage so much as the work has created this moment in which we are all people in this room experiencing

together? I can really remember strongly the knights that did that for me and now, when we do these night fail live shows. That's always my goal is I just want to create that moment, for their people. I wanna have a night where people feel like we were all in this room together and we we experience something that such a great feeling. This is such a good. You always. I was there about something that maybe no evil does even hears about. This was in cooler before everybody was taping everything right that you can say well, there's no, is that that happened, except in all of us the other? Something very, I think attractive to the idea of art had disappeared. The moment you created, but then you wanna, do you wanna? Keep that our direct? Oh? let me tell you a story about all: Hail West Texas, it's kind of it. These reels that were looking at these two reel to reel tapes, the two one slash two inch wheels to which the album was sequenced. Went to re master it for the merger release of it. I got the original tapes and I took them into the Maastricht,

and he sequenced them all and do what he could and there we a beat it with the city, the original the emperor Jones version and the new one didn't sound is good and he said you know these tapes have gotten old and particles have dropped off any. We can't really make it sound as good as it did, and I I went well, you know, there's also these reels and he said oh you shouldn't show me those first answer, but it was almost if, if I hadn't remembered that I had these these two reels, actual original source would have lost, it would have been you have. They said it was. It was issued in that it now I have to do something about that like when that happened. I was sort of momentarily pleased that, like the tape themselves, what was on them is gone. The first cover of our season is by Laura Jane praise of the band against me, and it was a thrill to be able to work with her. I think what

really interesting about her cover and why I like that, it's the first one is that it is an absolutely faithful cover almost every other cover we are going to hear through the course of the show, really changes. The nature of the song to fit the artists vision and some of them and places that are quite far from the original recordings and some really cool ways, but Laura doesn't do that. She plays it ass. She heard it, but with a feeling that comes entirely from her

the best ever met a band of dancing, other guys been friends, sprays one was named Cyrus and the other with a practice. Try something and just bedroom the best ever mental ban, better dancing, never send alarming. Reports are centres and the risks of debate the same. This Bangor Jailers hospital Bomber, Japan, Cyrus, believed in their hearts. They were headed for states. I'd Samir Geagea Board so that they may prove any use of opponents of brown and sober drumhead. Fingered sides have been names, investors have Cyrus nonsense was with me ever been wide chat, diner seen writes in his bread and some labelling. By ending it, even when you punish a person for driving their dream, don't expect Bang rubber gave you the best ever metal ban that dance at one time, but that you think said sayings and said I fancy

Thank you for joining us for the first episode of I only listen to the mountain goats, let's quickly plug some stuff from the folks you heard today, if you like the cover by Laura Jane Grace- you can buy it wherever digital music is sold. Links in the shown us buying the track supports both the artist and the show and is a very cool thing to do. Indeed, and you can pre order, I only listen to the mountain goats. Oh hell, Wes, Texas, right now in the merger store. This is a sure double vinyl release which will contain every cover from this season on to EL peace. One pink and one blue all pre orders include, and I only listen to the mountain goats patch check out the new problem from the mountain goats Goths, which is out now. You ve, been listening to instrumental versions of songs. In the background of this episode and the mountain goats are probably playing live in a theater near you because they are hardworking. Folks, John, Your second novel universal harvester, came out this year and is the horse

hush mystery, Slash family drama, slash, slice of ILO life that you have been looking for. My own fiction, Comcast Welcome tonight, fail and analysis dead are running now, both absolutely free wherever you listened, a pot casts and India. A few weeks on October. Seventeenth. They knew welcome the night feel novel. It devours comes out. Don't need to know anything about the podcast to enjoy this thriller about romance and San monsters hey. Let's do some credit, I only listen to them. Goats- is a production of night fell, presents with merge records. It is produced by Christie, Grossman, editing by grant steward mixing by Vincent Caution. All music courtesy of the mountain, goats and merge records. Thank you, too, Christine around Ryan Madison that Arneil family for letting me intrude on their lives. John Green.

Origin grace the staff of night fell, presents an Christie grasp meant for taking a weird idea. I had and turning it into a show check out. Night fail, presents dot com for more information about this show all of our other, shows that our each incredible in their own way and remember when you pay sure person for dreaming his dream. Don't expect him to thank her. Forgive you thanks for listening, inhale, Satan.