Hey folks, how's it going. I thought I'd take this moment. Or this time here before the show to give you might word dates. I will be in Manchester suffered England tonight that Sold out Saturday I'll be at the Royal Festival Hall here in London in their eyes tickets it that the Rep Theatre April eighth, in Birmingham. I will I'll be and there are some tickets wept for that. Then Vicar street April eleventh that's in Dublin. I think there's a few tickets for that. Then I've got it's coming up in San Diego in Madison the Vermont Burlington I've got dates and Saint Louis coming up. I've got It's an North Carolina coming up. You can go to w T, have pod dot com, slash tour and get those dates. I know it's where'd, it sounds word because I'm not in the garage

I'm in a very weird room in a different country. Ok, I'll tell you about. Second, let's do the show all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck's there's what's happening? I am mark Mare- and this is my podcast, as you can tell- I am not in the garage- I think you can tell, or maybe I'm getting more sensitive to sound as I get older. Obviously you can tell because it sounds different. I would think This is one of the weirdest hotel rooms. I've ever been in how's it going everything all right with you. These MIKE's her sensitive, I'm my body doesn't know what time it is. That's a doubt is the fact thing about travelling internationally is that there is a kind of when I go to bed it's kind of aid here. I've got a lot of press to do coming up. I dont know if I'll be able to see

I don't have a wake up at three in the morning with my body thinking. It's breakfast I'm her dinner time or I'll fuck No man dimension that t bumper a show that he is T born Burnett this when those guys that you know he too shows up everywhere. He's like this. Grand american music archivist producer musician in he's his career has spent decades. It does seem like one of those. Other one is sort of like I would call a dark wizard, but he certainly a wizard if something of american music and production in history of music, I I was thrilled where I could talk to but like when I did some research about Emma. I thought man at how much cover this, but we had a really really good. Conversation was very exciting. And he's got a new album coming out. It's his first album in eleven years. It's called them

visible light acoustic space. It comes out next Friday April, twelfth. But dad but yeah he's here and I mistaken we thought he was related to the rocket Billy Barnett's. The rocky Burnett is that the guy's name from back in the day they're, not do not related it also. That was that, Go anywhere that trajectory of possible conversation ended with Oh you're, not related to him yeah good times, not thorough research thought I'd. If I go out of the box a little bit make Something and their earnings feller names the same, that's the kind of show. I do look. I assure you doing so look folk before I get to a loss. Myself, loathing and what I ate earlier on the plane and just downstairs in this weird hotel, truly weird hotel. I would a little more than a week away from record store day. You don't know about record Saudi it's on Saturday April thirteenth and it's an act. We'll event were fans and artists,

celebrate the culture of independently owned record stores. Well, this Here we worked with the good people, Newbury Comics, to put together a very limited edition, vinyl album on the official record stored day label. It's called in the garage live music from W e F, with Mark have that's the show. That's listening to right now to right great artist, to agree to be on the record, so you'll get can acoustic performances which a mask is Melissa. Etheridge E from Eels Karen Kilgour. Ben Harper and Charlie muscle White Niccolo, Margo price Jason is born. Amy Man and gave Alvin we're donating our proceeds to that already musicians on call who bring music to patients in healthcare facilities to add some joy to their day as music will If you want more info about the album more about records, ordain General go to record stored data com. You can search on this,

I fear local record store and make sure you find out when they open, because a lot of exclusive record stored day album sell out like immediately a big thanks to new, very makes for collaborating with us into fingerprints music in long Beach who kicked ass with the artistic design on the album, the cover is really something else. It's it's worth it for the cover for I mean something I mean, if you can do the vital thing appreciate the cover up again records They twenty nineteen is on April thirteenth, so go find participating, stores it records for day dot com and get your copy of in the garage before they sell out folks. So this hotels very hard thing at a hotel, But do you know the scenes in two thousand and one the movie that take place in that room where he sees himself as an old guy and just like a white room with some fairly kind of of Victoria in is furnished you're, my recollection, this room looks like it was kind of based. I it sparse its way out,

Oddly, I d, I do not see an old man version and myself sitting on the chair wait a minute. I am him. I am the old man version of myself sitting on the chair, where's, the younger me sitting across the room or the infant me where's, the star child, but yeah this this this whole tell it's like it. Sort of a refund coup, brick like out in the hall oh there's, like I don't know, what's going on out there, but it's a long gray hall. That's not to Cuba, Turkey, by. But there's a guy painting the walls at their it's. It's it is a widow was shining like, but not shining as shining as the elevator lobby and the mainland He is very minimal. It's uh, it's trippy man, I'm in a tricky place and that it echoes. So I'm sorry about that, but wiser guy out their painting at ten but he night there's a gentleman in the hallway just patiently, painting

the dark grey was at ten thirty at night. I believe he's real. I dont know I do not see a pair of twins or yeah or a river of blood, rushing ivy elevator, but there is one, assuming to be a real person painting out there at ten thirty at night, I will go. There will check again If I see him again, maybe maybe what oh unfold here is: maybe I'll never leave this hotel. Maybe that's what's happening, fuck man, I am sleep deprived, but if I go downstairs tomorrow, Ass Wiser guy painting the walls at ten thirty at night, and they go what guy. I don't know if you're gonna talk to me again or the shows can give very interesting because I've enter Another dimension, am I even alive God dammit? I don't open unviable sleep tonight. And because I am aware tweet in a well falling

daddy and because I was slowly slipping My regiment had got me down to these felt weight of a hundred and sixty five sixty seven pounds had been thing with exercise and diet, which I enjoy great deal. I am already discouraged about the possibility of going to the gym here, because the pound to kill a gram thing. I fucked me up with the weights and die. I need consistency. That's what happens. I think that's what it is. Folks is I wanna go abroad. My sense of consistency seems to get a will. Tweet I went down to the restaurant downstairs. I think I made a half a loaf of bread, fresh bread with the crispy crust, never eat the bread and just a maybe about a quarter cup of butter with the large rock salt sprinkled on it does so slathered the crust of the bread with general

spoonfuls of butter and ate it, I'm realising that may have been a suicide attempt, but talking about it and it was amazing, real slow one. It's one, this slow suicide attempts, but I do have a bit of course draw. I do think I did. I think that butter probably stopped in my heart and a double up on the standards that my big plan. I will eat this half a loaf of bread and slatter with salted butter, so I can feel cosy inside followed by maybe eight to seventy two hours of Self Loathing Tiger plan. I can schedule it. I got a plan, keep myself

of any sort of a slow population of shame self judgment and a bit of self contempt, and that's how I prepared to do shows abroad the up hastily I used to do that in the states too, but that seems to have gone away there, buddy I'm Goin old School, just the fuck man. What's this can be, like god dammit. An asshole. What the fuck did. I do and now Mark Marin, as our vote do in yeah we'll Tipp protein for you. If you want to work from that place, it's worked for me on and off most do ya. But we are doing I to figure out where you you know you got push yourself down in the pit every few years, just to pull yourself

make note of what you are nearer, how you gonna change and yet do it do this is turning into something that becoming emotionally abstract. I think we should move along. I did get a funny email cuz. You guys know how much I talk about that movie. Clayton disregard subject line Michael Clayton Mark. I also of the film and felt obligated to share this quick story. I saw Michael Clayton in Manhattan think it was kept. Anyway the end of the film he walked out of the fifty second and sixth Avenue Hilton and immediately Hell's a cab and what looks like rush hour. So in the theater shouts allowed no way You get a cab on sixth avenue that fucking quick. It was hysterical New York moment the crowded, updating, laughter anyway, thinking that makes me laugh, love the pod. Thank you friend MIKE. Thank you for that very good.

It is nice that if someone's gonna, yellow yell at the screen is nicely happens at the end, during the credits in any delivers gets good, laugh, solid, because ninety nine point nine percent of time doesn't get a good laugh and a person's asshole, and if not the end of the movie soap, I'm glad you're that experience grudges shared it or I got to bomb Burnett and second put. There is something I need to talk to you about. Hiring is challenging right, but there's one place you can go where hiring a simple, fast and smart a place were growing. Businesses connect to qualified candidates that places zip, recruiter, dotcom, slash, merit zip recruiter, send your job to more than one hundred the webs leading job boards, but they don't stop their folks with their pets. For matching technology, zip, recruiter, scans, thousands of resignation to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job as applicant.

Command, zip, recruiter, analyzes each one and spotlights the top ten candidates. So you never miss a great match. Look running a business is tough, There are a lot of things you have to worry about. What hiring be one of those things went, zip recruiter, help you in the most efficient way possible, in fact zip recruiters so effective that eighty percent of employers. Post on zip recruiter, getting quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now, my listeners contrive zip recruiter for free at this exclusive web. Address zip, recruiter, Dotcom, Slash Marin that dipper cruder, dotcom flash. Bearing zip recruiter the smarter way to hire me. I was a little daunting folks, little daunting, to know that I was going to have to keep Burnett on the show. I've always been impressive. Work. I remember some the solo stuff from back in the days of that, but he was always there. Either you see that was producing a lot of the traditional

American music likely, oh brother, where art thou soundtrack in day out alive. Events, but he's just one these guys. We really kind of pop into check what he's dying and what he's doing and it never stops and it was with great dignity. A kind of this was one those conversations that really blew my mind about Is it in a way it was engaged? an exciting and dumb. I'm glad I had him and his new items very, very interesting. It's very good! First armies. Eleven years. The invisible light acoustics base comes out next Friday April, twelve in get it will, wherever you get your music- and this is me talking to Tyburn bone Burnett back in the garage and I'm going to why you is going to go outside in the hall and see if I'm hallucinating sewing

why the fuck were you. Do these long for situations much doing much of anything right a few years now, really you just how up and right yeah sort of holed up in right. I quit producing records. I still did I did. I worked with a couple of people there and the tv show. The true detective in the last year met you, I mean I just watch you you did. The latest one did all of a mere musics grates awake you now that life is at with I'm trying to remember so their soundtrack. Then there's original songs, but it was there. It? Was there any kind of archival

if the EU dinner was at all. It was mostly mostly score this third season right, if a few one piece I did with Andrew Bird right, he thought of the genus right he's amazing what I There is good, he did my friend Lens last movie, ditty yeah, he s very. Yeah I mean I like this last season, so you got to see it before anyone else So when you do something. I true detective, where that you did all three seasons in your scoring it you sit down with someone like Nick. You, you know you he says, watch this feel the tone n n n n apply your wizardry well in a way tat. I M not film scorer by profession, you ve done nothing I do it and I love what point you call yourself that man, I know I've. I dont think Ella recalled myself that put, but I bet love. Do I love to put imaging and music together

and I just always stay inside the character. I come from completely in the care of yellow. In this case, it was a character whose degenerate, whose men State was degenerating June. Writing we started off. We started off with the idea that this was a dangerous place right. His brain know the place of the Ark and how you little Arkansas Vietnam, where here all of that yeah, but the planet, earth Azure dangerous voice, getting getting their burden as as we go into it with. We started not quite as discordant places we get to as his mind to judge and a great and so universe we went along things, got more distorted, more discordant. Ah, ok, more free right and that any or matching sound too that here, how would you know? I don't I don't if the music is supposed to lead the viewer through

right. The emotions right, I believe it's the music is- is supposed to stay with a character, our interests. In a way that something that you conceived or or is that something that was passed down to you by some other some elder now. You know I will say it Danny often taught me a tremendous amount about film score. Ah and he is a master and he ass. He is a film score Rio, why, among other things so in if you dont, consider yourself a film, score necessarily your somebody that does sound tracks ye. I do. I sort of just help with the music. Job. Here you ve known Burnett helps with mused that's your business card, but I mean at talking about darkness and talking about I mean I did I listened to, yet the new record a couple of times Betty the light acoustic space It seems a dark. Well, that's that

It is a dark meditation on the culture were living it. Yes, it is that's, but I do feel there is a great deal of light in it put its invisible. I think that's what do I do? I kind of got what you were saying because I mean it's it's it's. It seems different in in mute We, then, then, out of your records, There is more space and there is a sort of. Moreover, almost mystical continuity. That's it there's! No! It's not about hooks most it like most of the songs are, are spoken poetry, almost and that day beat poetry. Yeah. You know like that. It comes it comes and goes throughout all your stuff. This is usually a tune or to or you just talk and deal, I think of myself ass, a beat generation purse do yeah yeah, I mean They were still generation world. Everybody says cool now who unit cool? was aware. It was of term that came about in Africa, Africans.

Initiated hurry. I waded is a way of not to get shot in the street doing nothing, we call Beacon Oil marina in he said to be coolly out your address, and so it came from the world and you know but the time it was. It was only the initiates, understood. Azure everybody uses the eye yeah, you know the beach generation they redefined the way. We look at everything, really sex politics. It started during the Second World WAR when all the the Men were away the dancers the dances stopped happening here. So the musicians she sat down and said: ok, we're artist, we're not gonna play for you to dance redeploy feel listen. I don't need to be in a big band, yes, listen yet, and you know that planning the cabarets which were in the Bay Whence Apartment house is basically so

there were no drums initially, because the that would make too much noise in the people snapped because they couldn't clap, because that would make too much nor yet- and so I just got it got but in that were also that was it really know drums to begin with. There were a lot of them, then, by saying the dancing stop that that means that a lot of them were like you were out of work. From their gig and the Big bang yeah, that's right and and then they were all you know they were spawning to the war and to what happened the end of the war, the certainly Jackson Pie, ex paintings or like right being in the middle of an atom bomb. Explosion. Is all the molecules fly apart rife they were, they were codifying these things and trying to find some order, and all of this all of us lunacy yea, and then it was also serve at that time. Were the the booze really story, move northward, that's right and started to expand

incrementally that's right. So here then you are, you have now sort of at the intensity and depth of this. Cargo blue seen starting to happen alongside over this pre be Bob. No wrong jazz business investments, right, that's right! It was a high up and where's country music. At that time, I guess I allow the that the drunk Our laws are starting to get big hits yet will here tank Williams, you in your lefty yeah, they were young Egg Williams, CO writer rose What was his name? I forget the guy's first name, not Wesley, but Wesley's dead. He was temporarily songwriter high, and they were trying to write broad heads too. They right they were trying to be kind treatment, surely there is trying to be there trying to report? Is Jimmy Roger assume, skull the father of country, music, singing

big manlier. He learned to play from an african American Hank Williams, learn to play from an African. We really did ya YA effect, theirs There is a serious we did. I dare withdrew. Christy called drawn and recorded in the great story about Jim Rogers, about some missionaries going to Central Africa, the twenties and taking her to Earth thirty's. Maybe it can. A german Rogers record here and over time Jimmy Rogers got mythology eyes in the Agus, try, as a half men have antelope and they have a song. They called him should be Rocher, and I had a song about that. So I understand the beat start. We were talking about, but the poetry of the beatniks really started with I'll know, which way I guess some people attributed to Berlin Getty, who will begins organs, Margare Getty, and then there is a caraway two hundred some courses that that was something but there's a ring. Two, it Lord Buckley.

Yes, I love Berkeley right near by daylight, but too familiar mode of talking. You know when you want to convey your poetic impact. That's right Can you do with throughout this recording into did is how you saw the background. Did you see because the music is not itself? truths of its woven in any things like this is really showcasing. What year you're saying well the music grew out of the work. We were doing untrue and true detective really, which became very abstract the dark kind of like I am I We keep saying dark as I like dogs or when I say dark. I I'm not saying like you, I'm done enough issued its not dance of all alike. Dark as it does the man, the exactly the music I floats the music I think of it? It's beautiful drew. The drum was the first folk instrument. The Thea in this

being played in this village. The village over there are new not to come around widening. I noticed that about a lotta. Your stuff is that year you do use even we're not talking. We you use indigenous amiss can drum beats, that's right away. Times Nigeria. There do not like the energy that booze beats are not shuffles there there, their american, Indian, yeah rhythms, Ezra, that's right! but you know back in those days everybody listen to every body back in the twenties beckoned early times. There is a lot. If you listen to from The Cairo Indians were rough from where you, from from forward taxes for worth less so

so those the indian sizeable like hey you, it's just like bluegrass you, I know you I am so everybody was checking out every by Jimmy Rogers was Listenin to Louis Armstrong. When I get that, but I it's hard for me sometimes due to find the integration of of hearken Indian into certain things. Until I there's a movie on called rumble documentary about link ray and some of them for the pint rock more that's a good. It is we'll be right now, and I mean you're who didn't known that if that was usually carried down genetically through actual individuals were they picked up the group You know, but I never you associate them is being Ino singular. I e a part of that. The great makes that evolved, modern, music, but they're kind of their worth. There are other crucial and important part of this. The music of the United States right sure sure

you know here's one other interesting thing just off aside for yet a guy named Mccormick, whose fry the greatest blues archive a small time died recently, and I was there I was down in Houston couple weeks, go look at whose archives and one of the things I learned. Why was I just call you, and you are the guys like you- might want to go through this night? They did they did they called his family called and said. Come look at this stuff Keziah. They were wondering where, to put it more to do with awe cause. He was, he was bipolar and he didn't want anybody who siesta but you know Robert Johns. His name was dusty Spencer. His real name robber Johnson was a stage day, while Jesse's Panthers when a better, nay, I thought so too. They called him little dusty is dead. Was big! Dusty now can. But the things I learned is in any Scott Pictures of Robert Johnson. No one's ever seen. He's got pictures of blind, Lemme, Jefferson, no one's ever say really it's amazing archive, but one. The thing seed uncovered was about

Let me just another Sancho. The blues came from Texas Loping the mule and it was his theory that the blues actually did come from Texas, because the blues came from all the five and drum players back in the south in the very early days and the pipe the pipers. When the Germans came in to Texas, the pipers picked up the harmonica, which the Germans brought with them and MAC Mccormick's it That was the actual beginning of the blues, through that our Monica here, no kidding you buy it. I do by it actually shitty headphones. No, no! I just have one or two that happened whenever you are other headphone. I never we're headphones doing it here today. Thank you. It's a big is a big step. Telephone Burnett with the programme

producer and musical artist is never worn, headphone the I try not to be. I know you won't keep it real. You'll want to mediate. Anything, that's your food, so I get it won't like I'll I'll go with that southern harmonica travel from Germany through taxes into the delta, but yeah Did you write? The other thing is there were all is France. You know the mob gotcha musicians and Mexico were french wedding cake. If came from Mirage, you know from they pay. The french wording, that was the music of the french website horns, but their pockets groove from the German, the Germans in that's, like you know, that's the notice of the happiest music. I can listen to the east of our stance vanish man, but I grew up in New Mexico and there's all

station. I'm sure there's one here that we just said that music, all that bet but bad I print Palmprint, but but but you know you stole lukashka anything, but it's big it in Spanish, and I like that, I didn't understand a career I might around. It form Israel s ready. Will you saying that with the drums and the new record, what you have said so this is music is part folk, music because it's very there too. There are only two things: happening there drums and then there's electronic music. So that's the guy mobile poured over the electronic news. That's that's. Are you trying to bring the kids in you? I know the Kurds yeah. I hope they come in. There certainly welcome they used to say when I would go out and talk about technology in the fifteen, years ago, hey you're, just an old man saying get off our yards, kids and I would say no I'm saying you're welcome.

The plan my yard, there's grass in their of trees and the birds, it's out. It's not your welcome here. You know, sir. I don't bring the machine yeah yeah! Don't bring that you don't don't grind the bird Then how did you transition to a more open minded approach to electronic well you know. I've worked. I started when I was seventeen in fort worth. I bought a recording studio started recorded in it Chinese put a MIKE in front of an instrument whether its of acoustic guitar, or a violin area hoard? It becomes an electric instrument as you do that so I've been, I been doing electronic music especially in the early days when the pretty broad definition I mean it. I'm sure that at the time you are starting doing that you're a sort of way which MIKE is going to be the most you do you do.

Used old mites to begin. We will use the bikes they had, which are great MIKE, since people are still used of Norman You, forty seven, oh yeah, you know so it was all of it was of great class, a high five equipment bobo by white. In in this record there there seems to be a synthesize sound that has a continuous sort of harm to it. That's almost an eastern sounding, that's too to their site. That gives it a meditative quality. That's true! country, an eastern muse, yeah yeah. I know what that's right. They did, Do you recognize that going in here he earned the right. So now I guess when I say electronic music have your did. Do the Wazir period because there are even listening to stop that you did with the alpha band and listening to your seller, stuff, that There is a commitment to very clean sounding instruments and not there's not a big synthesizer, sound

You know we're using analogue synthesizers. I will say where you get applied things area, so you know mugs and things and in some of the old, the else into well When I started when I was seventeen, you use dialogue on this record yeah. This is all yeah, that's bodies of a survey. It's all analogue regularity, but honest right yeah. I guess so using analogues emphasise mostly were used in everything at this point. We know, because we certainly Certainly in film and television pro tools, young, the areas you came to surrender to that yeah you're, not gonna, be like now just tape, you I couldn't you that's nice. No, I'm not I'm gettin ready just do a project on tape. Then this month, but but I have to say, digital sound has come a long way since nineteen. Eighty seven we offer snorted releasing beetles records that sounded like somebody scratching their fingers. Chalkboard you

when we were just in my house, he said TAT. I showed you might my small record collection of ashore in relation to yours that debt, that seventy eight sir, the best way to do the best sound. In records, that's right, the best sounding storage, medium for sure, if the best anti transcriptions someone went in crazy when we say vinyl better. No, it's actually know you know did There is a translation that takes place between an analog signal, an vitals enough in a digital signal actually degrades it right. An end The problem is, you know, through sound dissolved travels in waves, yeah a hundred site. Bill tone takes pride, ten or twelve feet her too, to fully realise yeah. So when you take a hundred cycle tone in you, break it up into samples here, your create your going from a wave into these square for rice squares, their picks. It pits pixelate yeah. So and the problem is the more the higher

sampling rate, you use the Morse. The more corners your creating urea they They try to create. They try to emulate away with squares right right right never really happened. It's the same thing when that happens with J pigs with pictures. Yeah you in our use of its right to come a party are the same thing happens with sound. So it's not. You know it's not just that a long time. They sit analogue selves warmer and that was We should write a site that you have more depth, yeah the item, what I noticed the mouse, yet you have more the imaging as yet ass. Clearly ass, you have much more residence because the because those those captures are able to really recognize All of the that are happening like when, when you any note on a piano. Every other note on the piano is happening at some volume in that no so

so really, but yeah religious rings and the strings yeah it's just, but it's just there right. Ok in some volume, most of the time, very, very low volume is but when you hit two or three notes together, overtones series is created, and so those notes, literate love. I must get repeated here they come out in higher volumes. Indifferent rhythms happen, indifferent yeah differ accords different tones happen that I'll get flattened down blocked, get squared it just get your gets removed, actually harness India because it just doesn't see at yet. Here it is like you know how you no higher than what they call in video. They call it a soap opera effect, When you see an old film maker, that's transferred can write high definition there yeah. Suddenly it looks like every everybody's inner. The depth is weird, You see the space between the people, and I would not real here and the thing about this

the thing Joel COIN and I've talked about quite a bit the thing about is its already too high definition. That's why they put smokin filter, that's how they are filters varlets. Yet there are trying to create some sort of gloom. Between was between the differ, give it to make it possible to make it work softer, make it feel real to my all, interested in you can feel like you were looking at something. Oh, I see so jaw coin in you have discussed this idea that that the detail of film actually works against your creating something that is convincing yeah! That's right! That's right to it, because you can see the f, too much. You see the process I, rather than being listening to a story, that's interesting because they're so meticulous

Those collins say they are indeed about framing and about dialogue in, like everything is meticulous everything he notes. Furnace sit behind the screen when their shooting in there just pointing to different port points in the screen what's happening there, why some during a shot yeah? Well, when you find her hair, no shit here, they are meticulous to an end, and yet it seems so free flowing they do one or two takes want too. Replied, seems to me from people have talked you that have worked with him. I'm not talk to them yet that day, exactly what they want, yeah yeah every day, every act, gets sides with his lines with the with the frame above them? So he knows exactly where the cameras gonna be when he says this line. So you know he gets and adjust flows, the right. That's why they're able to do what they do. Is they do it economically yeah? So by going back

the idea of you. I think we started with the other that the progress that has been made in now GI in terms of honouring. What I assume you are saying is a more authentic sound enables you to be a little less hard on yourself about using certain technologies, will ya it's It's come a long way and end. We ve learned. We ve spent a lot of time learning how to smoke into the into the digital realm right to filter it so that it feels it feels like something's actually happening on the untried. With that Palmer player. That's wrong. Did you, I guess yeah I did. I mean it wasn't a big enough idea in the face of this avalanche that we ve been of disposable garbage. Yes, well, that's the thing that I when I started getting into records again was that deal with sudden music that I grew up with which it unites fifty five, so

yeah to my radio when I had records when I was a kid, but I am yet another. My system would have enabled me to be sensitive to, but I was listening to stuff that I knew well on record, maybe for the first time, through a good system Since I was in high school and I didn't hear how was forced to sound at all? I listen to it like. I got a pretty good system in there, but it's real about the death. Then it's about the mix. The mix flattens out, whether its through an ATM speakers or even through a mild we even to have a fairly good. Par stereo. It still flattens answer. So when you hear records through a decent system for the first time you I did. What's wrong with this saw Gillian will of Soda Gillian will show that it she said she was looking listening to ask for weeks and eight. She said they have two systems, a digital system upstairs and analogue asked him downstairs, and she was listened ass for weeks on the digital system and then she downstairs and put it on and she

suddenly there was. She was able to hear everything she needed to know for replay that kind of music in the analogue. So that's it. Description of it. That's a good description of it. It's a hard thing to turn. And put it into a word like its warmer. You know the right, that's right! Anything! It's more about depth in and Clare in agenda inside in honouring the mix yeah, that's right, I'm yeah. That's what really gets flattened out is right. The decisions at a producer or an artist made in in what should be up front. What should be back and watch you know, because everything kind of gets smashed. Every everything's the same volume yeah. Essentially when you start You grew up in taxes all time nor Texas gas. Essentially and we re playing in high school. What was it you and when did it start started play my mom brought me back and Acoustic Qatar forget string guitar from Mexico, which is the story

Just about every Turkey S guitar player, I now they were the Gulf stream classical guitar. I yet for Mexico Protocol Five dollars was over, but it may this crazy, sound, and so I started playing with the agenda also the other one interesting thing since we're back there, The first thing I learned to play was: why would flower may bill Carter PAL? I would flower and that that turns out is just about every rock n roll guitar player learned to play guitar from maybe I'll cut. Mother may Bell. Really. I don't. I don't know that one because I am of different generation may be bought. It even know who she is well. She was the she was the on her. She was one of the cardinal ok. I got it so yeah I get the extended Carter family. He AP pop artery eyes. His wife was Sarah and then I think may Bell was received she, the mothers. I think she was in target mother now the issue

called mother, maybe also third country folk here- why Appalachian trip there? That's right and in that way our first year. Justice. What everybody learned ass there was like that. Who had laid the original grew? That was the first tracking recorded in your brain. She groove like a mother, and yet is so ok Are you doing that with your gut guitar and What year we talk and wended Rock n roll run your brain inasmuch as I think, the first rocket, The record I bought was Ricky else and Sancho Waitin in school, and I think that's where I like a first connected with rock and roll was on the ASEAN Harriet show a really because at the end of every show, Ricky Nelson word come on in size, wrong and he killed even James Burden was the guitar plutoria monster, get

repair, and so, but before that, what was being played in the house? What was wet enchanted you well downstairs. My parents had seventy eight collection that had been retired to end but there was a seventy eight player and and shelves of seventy eight hours listening to going to the rice are strong and coal porter and a, Ella Fitzgerald. We have that in your brain that sophisticated melody. Yet and also just the idea, the thing that the thing that I love the most about a little music there was a song or covered naughty lady of shady lane. I was about three three month old baby in their way you could play with the world's and there was a Sancho begin to begin. Our that's great at the great I think I heard the already shall do. They are called toward her cold porter to an idea, but its inner Allison taken with how you could create a whole world, whole environment, with song, with a piece of music right. Oh, I would put their own and close my eyes.

Be in some world of tropical splendor, as rhetoric said right right with these people dancing the gain whatever their way out. But it was it was it took you out, yeah deal psychedelic yeah. Earlier yeah. That's why you're not so we're thing when you really think about the way you're talking about music, that we and what music isn't psychedelic. If it's not psychedelic gets right, not doing its job, polio, music, noise or else it just a pop song pop song through a different thing. I think a pop song is designed to satisfy quickly and I think I can having thing, though pretty deep, obviously, but I think to really we'll get into a song to get into it as a a play, environment. You got it it's a different part of the brain. That's right so so used our point that got guitar, but then the r? U compelled towards rock music. Yet well,

the time you Elvis Costello says if you know there was rock and roll, and then it became rock music and as soon as it became rocket, took on all the qualities of Iraq, it was hard- and an inert behind, but I look this way thither two kinds of music, their sex, music and and war, music and rock music, more of war, music, it's Marshall, stone, really and rock and roll is sex. Visa could swing music, ok, that's a different station rock and rock and roll. Yes, I would say there swing music in and yet you gang organic waste guy, good, drummer, yeah! That's right! So you of river dancer those things- that's Marshall, Muse, avatar dance! You can see oh yeah, yeah right rightly like so where, where do you put the well. What's your take on the first rocks, is it rocket eighty eight Iraq around the clock or is it boosts way, choose what he thinks of earth? Rock n roll saw

well, first right, you know a lot of people say rocket. Eighty eight I now serve you know, but I don't know I hear it goes back to Milton Brown in the brownies, ensure Jimmy Roger certainly played Rock n roll ranks if Rock n roll part one mission rock and roll it's the blending of. Black and white culture. You know now, so you know Jimmy Rogers would certainly be Hank. Williams would be an early version of the reaction of you would have it on over that certainly a rock and roll, oh yeah. So when he started when you get this studio at seventeen having what so, what's your agenda, what what compels the are you in a band at the time now I am at the time I wanted to be a bird back rack. I thought he had the ideal life. He wrote, songs or movies wrote great saw, did arrangements produced records the up to work with D on war. We got to work with a memory. One right right bear had married an she Dickinson Yad.

And resources out of your life that forty wanted now the aspirations that that's that's, the direction square but but we're doing a lot of experimental music. I was working with the bad weather with some guy. Is it worth that later but we were doing a lot of experimental music. I was working. I musicale we returning tapes round backwards and cutting grinds we're doing a lot of in my ears. If sixty five, our guy yeah I thought I'd say you're well ahead of the curve on there will be no the the This is already being done, but, yes, it was being done in the fifties. Even on the high seas. Yeah yeah sinnest people got tape. Started playing whether you give people something now turn it inside out letter here. So so recording your own stuff in the studio. That was the plan that was plan. You might

plan was to write, songs, get other people to sing them. So your ear already in the? U S, business mindset about it, yeah, I guess I did. I say I knew that you know you have right. This down and get someone he's got some juice to do it. That's right, yeah, building empire, yet Thea Harlan Howard said once said side you can either ten songs and the truck p system- in a bus and some musicians and publicist dinner? You know producer go around and Plato size or you can ten songs and get tin guys with ten trucks and tin passes into the basis, and I thought that's up, there's some wisdom. In there your land, any no, not really not early on I've. I start you know the first stuff I started doing. Funnily enough was blues bands ya, like who anybody there is there.

My favorite record was Banco Robert E Lee and his five careless lovers. They we recorded live in the new blue bird night Club, our to the bank the Van Dykes, I remembered that if they were not to be banned in the sixtys in and then you know there was a club in town called Panther Hall, so in more worthy added, fair worth were all the musician world. A country musicians PA and Friday and Saturday night. They would come over after work and record in the studio Sophia in your thirty. I yes Conway Twitty in early Conway to again Doug Cursor knows it's a curse on here. He lived long enough to go hippy in here he was free hippy from the git girl, yet Addison gone whenever we have no. No, he with very briefly here who else and an Perma yeah sure and the related go away, go yeah, yeah their allotted there was a therapist.

In a girl go seen in Fort worth at the time. So worked a lot with a lot of bad Svenska like the cynics their noted very idle Guinea. Anybody really did anything out of that same put there. There is a threat, fixing the t ever come across a Billy gibbons in any adoration, where I saw him of amid him much later, but I saw him at the time pleaded the seller club was it in that what they call moving, sidewalks, yeah, they had, sir. I hear they played. There were two or three sellers. There was one in Houston and one for work, and I think one in Dallas, and that was a circuit, the seller clubs. Yet the guiding Pad Kirkwood who was a character occur there all characters, a guys you on clubs, that's right, yeah their world, yeah, yeah, the king of their worlds right now. So how do you If tat that groove into like you, you know what changes for you at what age to where you

are playing more in and playing your own songs and well I ran into Bobby New. It's a funny story really. Just after Janis Joplin died near the call from Albert Grossman who are made of two Woodstock and audition, with full tilt buggy banned for What reason I don't know, but I guess Dillon liked my songs and Albert and heard the songs which songs did Dylan like there's a you know I was, I had recorded a maid eight or ten demos there I was sending around people- do to get record until in her for my name, Lindsey HOLLAND was in four Dylan at the time and was playing the songs on the bus, yet our hand. Dylan liked him, so he went the skull from railroad Grossman due to come up to Woodstock and

We stand at my friend, Stephen Brutus House. In the first night I was there or theirs is extraordinary jam session with Bobby Charles. First night I heard Tennessee blues. He had just gotten out of jail in Tennessee and came to town. With the Song Tennessee Blue. What has gone on Woodstock that everyone's goin up that will did the band was omby amby that even though they were kind of attracting everybody, They wrangling the roots of America. That's right, yes, wrote a scare it was there who had just played this great so low and midnight at the oasis. We played music all night long Drank allotted to kill their noses sky Bobby New earth. There I know his name is extraordinary cared. He was the straw that stuff is the drink, as they say in the folk music in in rejecting New York near and he was in, don't look back with Tilney, was still and say to campaign in that movie, don't look back and I woke up the next morning, not remembering going to bed at all and we're out of

when we were in these two twin beds and I looked up north was in the other bed and there was a bottle of tequila between us. And I looked at him through the tequila and he woke up any grabbed the tissue and took about three massive swore most of this thing and handed it to me, and I can't I slipped it and he said I didn't see any bubble. Now is it that was the beginning. A beautiful french canoe earth and I've been close friends since that night, mister the ideas and and when he was putting together the rolling fund review in New York, so he's it with the producer or nay in our guy. I songwriter in a painter he's he's never signed a contract in life. You re records out near. Does he wrote Lord? Won't, you buy me a Mercedes, ok, raw cane yeah he's a great song right on gag worked with Christophersen, yeah yeah. That's how I know the name worked with court with Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin at any,

you didn't take the gig with the air, the full tilt, buggy man now I know I didn't take that gig. But then, if this rolling thunder thing came up and how I was not really ready to be a performer for the full tilt, boogie been or rolling, they want to use a guitar prior ia and sing sing, subsume map. So but I took the gig for the rolling thunder tour it was my tat was the beginning of me trying to learn how to perform. Was a real circus. The railways! Here I mean It wasn't Ginsburg there too for a while. He was there the whole time. Sam Shepherd YAP like odd pair odd sorts, every area they travelled together to all the shows yeah. So would you are on that thing which take away from it too? You can enter your own music, o everything you do. I've repeated that rolling a few again and again. The royal service in black and white Knight show was a version of the rolling Thunder review Thea

There were art thou of down from the mountains. Tour and film that came after over there were Arthur was a version of the rolling thunder, so just the add that the kind of it not quite a variety shove it, a traveling community here, that's right collaboration among various artists and and being able to chalk. Jacques Levy actually really helped me and taught. I talked of Jacques Alot about how he he You remember Jacques leave off he direct ok, I'll cut off Broadway Yolksac and he wrote desire with Bob he did and he directed the rolling under review and any he had tons a lot about how you tell a story, different songs, indifferent artists over a period of time, so you can two a three or four hours show where changing the voice, every ten, ten or fifteen minutes suit. Body. It's never has the chance to become

still voice right, and then you combine those voices, indifferent, indifferent configurations right. They didn't get used to avoid, but they they get used to the contacts. Thrice. May you have created this vast? That's it on tat. You create a current tax and then you tell a story and water. What are the songs about and what part of the story, or they tell right or Youtube you that exactly what we did with our brother were art. Thou Oh yeah man. I mean it's like you, you know I I I don't know. I know that that's a lot of what people know you're right. I think the first time I got into your stuff. Was that the album the talking atoms? yeah, because I was like in college her legs, prime my last year at school, and I what the fuck is this now before. I knew anything really in any broad sense about music or what you might have been doing previous or whether we were producing or anything else, but I of that record

and in in in from there you know when you, when I e I kind of stuff- here about you here and there and then we'll oh brother, were our thou. I just pictured. You is this guy that Yo Yo would go out. And do your music, but then just now be overwhelmed by all the music in the world. I think that probably pretty clear description I'll take that sobered, but that thing is, if you like, It was so funny when I was walking round my house before you came trying to figure out where to start a conversation with you. I might for some reason I the in tat moment, I was like. I have to ask him if he believes in ghosts yeah, why not well, because when I think about you, when you put together something like that, soundtrack that group of artists to do songs at that tradition. When an older and add their specific songs that you chose from Europe. We, however, you chose them. These

to realize that that music, if you honor it, yes, Do traditional, music or old music, that that is the sort of a good ghost nets. That. You that you'd you trying to honour a ghost in and then allow them to talk again. That's right, right, yeah! That's right! I agree with her, so What was the process I mean you, I know you did a lot of solar records in India on your own banana production and and cure rating you're seems to be have taken up a lot of your time. Right will yeah. That's that's what I've spent most of my time on just recently Three years ago, Marshall Brigman call me, have you, no Marshall, put many other either screenwriter right, he's an interesting. I wanted to give you a quick description of martial brick when he was where the original folk musicians in in Washington Square Park in Greenwich Village, yeah Fifty's,

he played all the instruments he played on Judy College Records on a lotta records. He was a session guy. He was the guitar restoring dueling ban, shows from deliver us. I think I'm a different guy. I guess criminal to their so he'd. He did. That for a number of years he ended up. By the time you use in his We twenty see ended up in Hollywood Workin on candid camera with Alan far right than by which time he was twenty three was head right or on the Johnny Carson tonight show how many invented the Dick Cabot show it to whatever you call it: that's where he got, have double Woody Allen through Rawlins and jockeying De Cabot end right, and then he wrote men. The road anyhow right and then started got into Broadway and he wrote you boys and some other place at recent yeah recently still go the ice, easy ways in trading nerve by its interesting, the guys at that survive because they change

you know cause I've. I've talked to a couple, a cat from that seen in New York, Ike I've talked to David Brown, bird and I've talked to and having junior- and you know it neither one of them the day after the fact I realize they, they were both sort of hobbled by drugs at different points in their careers. By tat, but they were. They were part of that in and they stayed within the confines of what happened at that time. Right, fear. They didn't move right here well, but Hammond pretty great of their both great behaviour, both killer musicians, love John Hammond Junior, best you're, so Marshall Brigman, calls and says he's writing play about the peace We played Roy Rogers and Dale Evans and most of listeners may not even know who Roy Rogers and eleven were, but Roy writers was the biggest cowboy star yachting. Cowboys were deserves a huge movie star and then in the fifties. When my generation, my friends,

the growing up here, television show right and No everybody wanted to be Roy Rogers. He was the most marketed person. They had Rogers everything sure just lunch pirates restaurant chain restaurant per year, exactly so, but the it was in it interesting idea to me, because if the people who play we all thought that Roy Rogers entail Evans were actual people, but they were actors It was a guy named Leonard Sly, who played Roy Rogers and a woman named Francis Fox who played love with his horse. Trigger sewers run is in his dog was bullet. I am good name. But but he was also native Americans. We never would shoot an indian enough and if any of us films lavish chose at any rate, I started writing this, this, the music for this play with marshal and die. And it took me a solid year went once I started once I took the job of writing a musical

and even though SAM Shepherd, I worked on several place together. I was writing music for place, but this was different. This was like a worm. Was writing lyrics. They are a part of the story right and deaf and dumb I started studying all the Great Broadway composers, Frank, lesser who act as the greatest of them all ass, a Red Sun times yeah right and hard stuff and how they are. They went about doing that and it was hunting and it took me a solid year to ride it and after but through I, so I started waking up it for the more every morning in writing for three or four hours and then, when I got through with those Twenty songs, I just kept riding rises, which is all the stuff that's turned in the involved into the invisible. Like you I mean even in like, because I really listen to talking animals and like it seems, fanatically that first song

think was a little bit of a heavy for you. The wild truth is is would fit on this wreck right. Oh I've, only written about the same thing, my whole life as you and this house. How row, I think, that's what everyone does, but I've written. Of self delusion and self deception. My life area said, I know so much about it out and I did when I was a kid so heavy. Finally, you know: do you know when you're deluding yourself at this point? The better! I catch it more quickly. What you know that there is a certain amount of of self of self doubt that you have to let go of in order to gay agenda in your creativity- and maybe you know I'm projecting, but you know that when the struggle I could see here appeal to working with other artists. Yeah. Exactly you ask me, I ain't I had enough. This is real or not

just do your thanking her. You know it helps. I am able to help them not make the same mistakes. I've made. You know that here that's been part of that the whole time, so that bring this is why have words bring us? Where are we? When did you come to LOS Angeles? I came to LOS Angeles nineteen sixty five to sell record I'd produced and then I went to New work and sixty five for the same reason, and then I moved out here, private nineteen sixty seven sixty eight, so you are here. Through all the Laurel Canyon share and you watch it all. Neo turned a garbage. Well, yeah in a word is the size of the beautiful just

Turning. The garbage Edmonson deal really heard everybody locked, the homo, who really do gave a very bad name, gave her by a bad feeling. Did you see him around no, never sign, and as soon as that thing happened, Dutch I scanned my car and laughed. I just thought this is valid. Drove back to Fort worth, combat protection for things may set yoga. Look at the flatness ia yeah. I can't imagine. Aid just seemed like AIR yeah. It was bending into some sort of young drug driven chaos out here in the late sixties. Wasn't it was Joe, you know, Johnny Mitchell was was the queen of everything else. She was so beautiful like summer, if milky summer could have sung and written the most extraordinary songs. There was this feeling of

stability and feeling of through this is gonna, go someplace in and ended up, just sort of getting turned into a commercial venture yeah, then in a drug ridden cesspool too but you are there for the liking. You know the true door, Oh that's every night, oh yeah Theo dived, coming up here we were somebody. Somebody went through the window of the true one, nine, the car. No, and inside out some met, a key member of who I don't If I had anything to do with it might have had something to do with it. I guess that's a good description of the time of the I went through the window, not sure if I was invited by we friends by carry Nelson or any the egos guys IRAN status, we, I knew run stead a little bit. I met Harry Nilsen laid a minimal later, but yet time I was maybe just a little bit younger than the grand parson now now miss that We work with Emmy Lou yeah

You know what I did see. I saw Richard prior, therefore, who Epps will. We kill in, I saw incredibly great, shows there and I'm sure I ran in dollars, skies and talk to him and everything, but nobody knew there let long and she penniless all. I think that was maybe J D saw their England, for I am like I just got one of their record that the two of them here is our right. Yes, they were, they were there. I saw it. I would talk to those guys out see Linda around, but you that's interesting, because that would sort of year that that that kind of them that I guess it that that's within the parameters sort of your world in the way that, but I think you go deeper into it at that Is this idea that we are moving forward american music you know we're melding. Contemporary rock and what we was known as country into something else. With the with the birds,

Ryan's, Dad Handmill J D in those guys we're doing something which thinks singer songwriter stuff that was taking it out of there. Nashville model, but it really it just became the Eagles really yeah that cannot happen. They saw the whole thing up right. And made a popular music in that that sort of the template, a until your for a long time for cod The music actually be out of their country. Music came around cry, appropriated in building the give those guys, as did the credit, they did. That's true. Do you like? You know it's worth move from a brother. You do so you you feel as much as everyone else felt that that was sort of a master work. Of corporation and production for you. Well, it was it was it was. Ordinary collaboration with Joel anythin who were two of the most to the smartest and funny people. I know ah deep, be funny

where you started your relationship with Chile, while she was happy for no I've started working with with Gillian and started working with Galea non producer scuffle records, I see are playing at the station in Nashville for about twelve people, and with she Gillian beautiful songs ass she something right, so you started really producing your full on in the eighties, right now Bruce. I started out as a writer. I produce a right, oh yeah, but full I knew I started, probably the nineteen eighties and you like it. It seemed very eclectic me: I've only talk to a few producers yeah I talked to her John Kale about product, which was a fact that in our view- because I at the time I talk to him

it really wasn't on the pulse of his whole career, which is astounding, yeah he's amazing, you feel is down. I'm talking about the producing Patty Smith, reneging stooges in he's like I just took the gig man. They knew. I can move the knobs. You know he made. Some great wreckers is Bobby new earth to the care we were taught which oil earlier yeah- I don't remember the name of, and they did him over in Germany. I think he produced a newer third. They collaborate, the I probably have em like. I y know I kind of scramble to get caught up on people beggar, but that whole crew of people in England, the other What we have errors in ie know, and you know that but the other ones. There is some odd, interesting, music, very much sooner There was from the time of experts. Integration, he hurried home, and this is what I'm trying to live in that ghost? On this? stuff, we're doing were right to work

work in full autonomy right because the greatest store is made by artists working at full autonomy right and the more you know, this is why I love to. As a producer, I love to work on first records of people like I did with Juliet and low slow, both audience. I've done. I've done a lot of first records that, copyright, because not not people say when they had twenty years to write their first record and then not much time to write a second one, which is all true, but the right For twenty years they were riding in full autonomy. Yeah they had nobody, no record company, telling them what the charts right letter writer yet so I feel you get you get a real pure shot of of the artist

can you did that with widely in? Did we did you? Do you do that? Marshall crunch off? First Riker? No, I didn't ask for his those values, third record or some, but if you would like you work with the bodies every I ever every few year, every once in a while, he went by the fourth. He had a first voting records. A pretty big record did really were here and Elvis Costello you picked up later in life, but spikes, a great record you, despite United Spike in king of America, will you came America's one of my favorite records of it. And worker is Elvis of extraordinary cat. Great teacher, yeah yeah. He does. It does have the big brain he works under full autonomy. Himsel sure he's always maintain full autonomy so of the currents. Yes, there. These. Are you so assume shepherd fur? all of these guys. If this is what The things I've learned from them is how to do that, and certainly this this. Record were nobody's telling anybody anything, did you

ever work under those pressures here at this hour, or this year where companies yeah yeah Thea occasionally, but they ve. Never They never said much to them. The record companies. Actually, although they had terrible reputations because they would rob supplying, certainly, but they didn't they completely destroy artist lives like the internet, thugs right sure you know near, but by and large, they were almost patrons of the arts compared to what we have now. He accepted on that second or third record yeah. They're just wonderful on that. First record has a role in the dice they could. They could metal, but I never got anything like the kind of notes that I've seen networks, gift of writers and art, so many people, yeah yeah right. This to me that with the record companies just one asshole with tv theirs, I can and they would usually say everything.

Great, except we need a single right. It would usually be just like how we gonna sell. This gives us some to sell right right. So was the other, twelve or fifteen, or ten or however many songs. They would let you do what you want, and yet they move that thing if they would just if you would just give them the one thing, but what's interesting that the production Razumihin, that you know you seem sort of adapted really approaching our allotted different types of people on earth, people that you ve recorded ya out several times Finally, I think that last autumn and brother- I you know that was really a great big producing. I love you. I love that record. I want that. My love Gregg Nets. That's another one of my favorite records of ever. I think that with this one record right. Yes, I think me May I make one more point, although country Blue, I think you you you, you open that Porto yeah I went. I just went dead. You know that Cs Louis said: if you're doing a mathematical salmon, you come up with the wrong answer. There is no use proceed.

From there. You have to go back and fine where you made the mistake here and then that's that's workers risk and begins. Yes, sometimes programme going forward is accomplished by moving backwards. In that that's what I've and with several artists have gone back and you get to move backwards in in a vehicle of its modern. That's right, so you get to do both at once. Right, oh two directions at once and that's what we did with low country blues try to do that with Elton on some of his things on the way, I'm Russell record yeah. You definitely view them here that in and I was there at the troubadour win he came to town first idea for the week in blue everybody's mind in whose reproaches exploded major store in a week. Did you feel that you had success in doing now without him, yeah yeah? I thought so the record we made diving Borgia very much. A trio piano basin drums record, which is how he was playing at the time of course I mean his voices at least

The lower right was here. I listened in those early Elton records now too on helium react as it get banned. Now, great and he was great. Otto mean that to denigrate not allow lies in the light of what you have people get older to strip it down as vague. It makes an interesting. I may I think that your work what room into which I catch resort of astounding right, beautiful yet say that the same idea. Guy just go back to the core, yet the person is in what he loves in the first place right vote by trying to try identify the person's true love right, I mean, but you recorded a record to be king way too. I mean two thousand and eight same sort of process: Square kinda, good Back until you know see that my grave is clear. Kept clean and those little songs of his youth, yeah yeah and though

and get to work with Bobby did that you did carry Jacob through a couple ha. I did it, I wouldn't say: carry him but yeah left Jacobs of beautiful artist, noise, great yak, talked to him. That is funny. Check it out Everyone has interviews, worry it sort of like you and I like to talk about his dad, like you know, of any of these reticent to eventually a sort of like you know. What do you talk to your dad's like yeah, of course he's my dad will shake of his very funny a guy refining- and here he never reveals that better a break for some reason. He is very guarded, which

I stand I used to be very guarded to have given up on being guarded once it's like. You know, I mean he knew what he was getting into its like. If you dare Bob Dylan, you gotta be a singer. Songwriter! Well, yeah good luck, yeah! He knew what he was getting into, but there was no way for him to know what he was getting into at the same time he's a great songwriter in its own right, and you know it in and I love it I get. Did you never got to work with the heartbreaker czar? Had he knows I never did. I would really like a good match yeah. I would love to work with Tom. I did I did music direct. His of music cares Tribute MA, where he died and no love Tom. He was made on care. He threw ease those guys real. If you just sit with the catalogue, your eye whole year, Rio, one great sewing after a Neely, some amazing about that any recorded, your ex wife, a few records six or seven records- that's great here at last. She is she He is still one of my very she's, maybe my

every artist of that word with yes, yet ellipses incredible, she's, a great great songwriter. She lives right around the corner from where we're sitting I now as while now I know that she's a great songwriter in a deep sold woman, now and and then out of like wherever you do, a Cassandra Wilson record level. Truth Cassandra Lot. When yeah, we just put her, we used her to good effect in his latest Syria these of true detective. She sang the the title entitle saw her. There has, as yet I mean like I'd, keep up with her, but like the first time I heard her was like holy shit, she's she's she's, the less living jazz, her interesting, etc. I think so pro I mean like I think you could say, I ain't across a jazz sooner, but she's not she's, not I end of gesture that that Cassandra right she died.

It is a great pianist. She she was Oscar, Peterson's, protegee Iowa and she's brill musician and a great singer, she's off the Canadian you know so that in the end Passengers will have the same baggage here. That's right, doesn't know the american bag and will put you know. Cassandra says the down in Mississippi. They say the reason or so much trouble between the races. Whiskers were all related. You know yet She comes from right down there in the delta. She's got she's got all of that and you will also help the old robber plant turn his at his viper. I hope to do that again. One of these days you I like I do love Robert and I love Robert Nelson together Two of them have extraordinary chemistry and you know speaking of someone who aren't you, listen to his early stuff sounds like he's on Helium Yonah, her but Winnie. What is it? a grown man

when he lowered his voice and that softer place here that still it's more mister, it's more beautiful words what he could saying here, who can say Gregg and the two of them together they have these beautiful tones. Eight five other people I like that that their use the weird thing about about superstars aging is that you know, and I and I've talked to a lot of them, a few of them anyway. They always think they're doing their best work. Now, and then they might very well be just the ADI he's, got a little smaller and the expectations are different and there a gentleman and they may not get the there- the reverence ass they once had for what they did when they are kids, but they they could be right. You know and it's funny cause? I interviewed Macartney. You know maybe one the greatest moment of my life, because it you could every guy his age and I've talked. It says that I think you are let's talk about the new record

and a lot of time through not right, but you it's fine. You know bye bye. I said Macartney suddenly said you know a lot artists, your age think they're doing their best work now. Do you feel that way and he goes the beat of good for him is how do you put downright beetles there at the pretty high bar? There are back, you know, they're, just in another area, so funny. So I put a very good provocative question. I can I really thought I had in the bad get him on. That would know that completely self aware when getting me back, and yet I really something now in which has tackled a couple more minutes about working with Collins, that inside Leeuwen Davis. What am I fear that now another best movie. I love it here, not everybody loved her eyes,

because it was the story of my life, I thought yeah. Oh yes in Springsteen, said that's the story of my life, except with a happy ending. He added that's that's what we ought that's what we all would through that was. That was the goblet we, Your Isaac is, did an incredible job of playing authentic, Fort Museum, the fifties did you have to catch him, no hee hee. A little bit. I mean I what I did mostly wishes. Keep everything away just to let him the space to do it. He did but I'll tell you. He did it extraordinary thing which the coins wanted to shoot all the music live here, which is the best way to do Ryan. We did it without a click track. What you never do in the movies, because you can cut from shot to another if he has not done to a consistent tempo here, so I was sitting about four five feet away from him with a stopwatch timing measures right,

Well, we sure yeah to make sure you didn't speed up or slow down any end It drilled so hard for six months that he didn't. What's he didn't he now varied tempo it's an extraordinary feet. He I do have to. Check, and so all that stuff you just did you was it. There was the process of deciding the songs for all of it. I don't know with we ve, always just kind of talked about it until there there were you in the Collins, he was its extraordinary feet. What are the ones you do know bout fatal, durski, we're lady killers and we ve done. We ve done so few communities and between right, maybe another one or two and there I can remember me out as our get along. Very much so in fact theirs a good at getting along the two of them and they were able to reach a consensus so effortlessly that they are able to can include what else in their process YO,

so I've never foreseen, a really uncomfortable moment, honours sat well arise going my favorite movies, is a serious man, because I am an American Middle Class Jew and it also familiar to me, but TAT, but I decided was seemingly a very personal movie. Again. The ending here with this with the the the rabbi listening to white rabbit the kids, don't lose bar mitzvah you're. Gonna go away, go watch, em all get here. So what's, let's a zero and one other thing- I want to talk about this because I got the record. I didn't know what the fuck it was and I still don't know where come from but music from the American Epic sessions united and I wish into it now, making a third man put it. How did I get hijacked put it and in what? What was the conceit of that

who were involved with it, they pulled out an old machine yeah. They found they found an old request there were these do back in the old days. What happened was a nineteen twenty six, the record buzz collapsed because of the poor proliferation of radio in rags cities and all the rest? words were sold in the big cities and because people can get me, for free. They didn't want to pay for any more yeah, so the record companies took these portable record Yours down south started going recording blues and country musicians with the idea. They weren't call blues and country musicians. At the time you were recording poor musicians and poor parts of the world. Because didn't have the same radio acts. They had a naked stills cell record, so they would go to a furniture store in Mississippi and say

Is there anybody around here whose good enough for it? Because the other all the records and the record players were sold in furniture store, I manufactured by falling should help is twice the up, so They would go down, they would say. Well, if you go down the road here, this road there's a guy down. There is really good miss every John heard go down there in the area, so they would take these. Receive machines that were portable, down the road and they would record no electricity, no atrocity was all done by pulleys right and in how did they work? It was like the weight would drop in a certain time frame, and that was what was digging the groove yeah and you only here. It would flask two minutes to two minutes, and twenty seconds was all the time you have had the weight hooked up to a point that was hooked up to the end, the needle that was with that was grinding to have with whose hooked up to the turntable that was digging the place that and tables moving. The needle was stationary bright put, it would move around the needle and that's where you get the original play right.

And so they would take, though they would take those recordings and they were on, they were discs and they would the men ice. They could only record in the winter for gas. It was done on wax how myself I would packet in ice and they would ship it up to New Jersey or wherever the present process as crazy and the guy the first, your store, would say: ok, If you do that I'll take a thousand record, so they would soon the disks up masters of the West in Austria in sin back a thousand records, and that would be it. So you got Those machines recorded a bunch of current We have of older artists on them. At the nice piece was really great. Yes, some of them are good. It's interesting that what was it, To me. Listening to it is that, yes, sir, of the way those record sounded was was not age. It was the equipment etc, which it sends but a lot of times you assume, like you, get some things all the best but it was amazing that the sound was there. They did what

they are still works, omits of its pretty crude MAC. An expert still works really well. Did you even jack? You must have good taxis, an analog freak here, Jack and I are visa. Like a younger rather right here, you know, he's got doing those directed disk. Their direct to to They college third man that he records Eddie records in the stage space go right under the play right. The Azra, some of them are great yeah, as I said, is still the best? The best sound best sound If every musician will tell you that, when you when you're working and taper digitally at any time, you go to a disk fee, the acetate, the ash you first record on. He had best sound you'll ever hear and that's what is I made out of a proper assessment? It's me it's. I think it's aluminum within ass, its aluminum base. Acetate on top right, but the acetate is very soft, so

Once again, the needle pressing into the groove creates he which melt the acetate right in with wax lived. You couldn't put whence you cut where those masters you couldn't play at. You just said to sent it off and get it may, while because, if they would melt so The agitators is is the first step you taken making an album vinyl Rucker IA, but if you listen to this the acetate before YAP before before you press, yeah it's the best. Soon you'll ever hear the pressing, never sound, discourtesy, acetate d, ever acetate collection. Do. Actually here I do, but they ve all been played so they're all pre scratchy, their spent now pretty much while the new records grey thank you. Man and you know I I I hope you find your audience. I think it will will see their you're happy with its autonomous. It is.

Autonomous there through their three of them. We ve just finished, recording the second one and we're gonna put him out every every few margie. Is it the Acoustics Bay Series? It's a visible light, serious look at the second one skull spells for the same work. I have to put it out in August September. There is dramatically different Yet, a little more, it's a little more DR innocent little more up. I saw you, ok, restarting in that year, starting low, but the act, but they met. Clear? It's all about the same thing. All of it is about the fact that we, the human beings have undergone over a century of electronic programming, and what that's done to us is a people you know and where that's lattice, between their condition, responses that that path of Three in eared sure yeah yeah there aren't ex into our phone, but it's also lead us to the place where we started, where you could do a lifetime's, a lifetime of work and a celebrated in three satin

is put it out into the world in some with no name in a picture of Bob new heart as an avatar sock, its honey and I'll tell you when I tell you the true story when I was from the time out fry ten or eleven till the time owes and my video price sixteen. Eighteen I had a recurring nightmare, which were I was in the end, parish of my episcopal church here, and we were all lined up against the wall and at the very far corner, where these men trust Darwin Black. I couldn't see their faces here and there were up, but they were black and they were intimidating and threatening, and they were taking off everyone's right hand and replacing it with an electronic That would be their new control mechanism and I would the cap every every night from that dream?

cold, sweat, panicked ahead, it preferring or twenty Taiwan, and it wasn't until probably fifteen years ago that I walked into a coffee shop, and I said reboot stare at their hands and I realize oh, they didn't have to cut off her hands. They just put it in our hands here right and an eye, that dream was was, was given to me actually that's what I've been writing about all of these years. Is that that dream sort of propelled me into this. Started reading to you does your dad and I started reading shock, allowing an Marshall Mcluhan here and getting into this idea of what is tat? What it? Where are we going with this technology through hafta with every technological advance. We have to stop and take take a minute to do too. German. Whether this is gonna be something that makes us more human or less human, and at the moment, this current digital technology has, sir, is certainly making us less human, and just that way, you sad that somebody

he should no one's ever heard of it has never done. One could piecework suddenly becomes an expert on what everything that's wrong, or just an asshole just that, usually just that, because Viking nine times out of ten when you respond in there, I die gadget area they want to connect. So that is that human? That's all who asked that's all too well. We'll sit here how they can act for how long, but but what really do in is disconnecting and that's not forgetting the problem. He the air, the description, a dream in any of this. Peace now have it. You know I just I did an interview and somebody asked me: why did I, How do I get into this and I started thinking about it and I realize oh that's why I got into this ass. Why ads

starting of went on this whole fear of the hand. Here don't talk to the area too late, good, talking you two men that was t bone Burnett, the new album, the invisible light acoustic space comes out next Friday April 12th, you can get it whenever you get those records. I may have been hallucinating still hanging in and I may need some sleep and have no idea what the future holds for me. If everything works out and you media future it'll be a show in Manchester tonight, butter, fucking funny so good right, butter for