« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1017 - Anna Konkle & Maya Erskine

2019-05-09 | 🔗

Anna Konkle and Maya Erskine, co-creators and stars of the middle school-based comedy PEN15, met and bonded in college. But they knew their most authentic collaboration would come from playing themselves as adolescents, which started them on a six-year journey to put together their show. Maya and Anna talk with Marc about playing their 13-year-old selves again, what it was like to redo traumatic moments of their youth, and why all the other actors are age-appropriate teens. Also, Anna explains what she learned from Marc when she worked with him and Maya details the process that led to the casting of her real mom as her TV mom. This episode is sponsored by ZipRecruiter and SiriusXM.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey folks. It's me mark I'm going to do this before we start the show just for people who still don't know where I'm playing or might want to come see me. These are the shows that are not sold out for my upcoming tour I'll, be at Helium Comedy Club in Saint Louis June. 13Th through, The fifteenth I'll be a good comedy club in Raleigh North Carolina August first through Gary is Third Revolution Hall in Portland August, ninth sold out August tenth at revolution. All in Portland there are still tickets, all beat the Majestic theater in Dallas August 22nd in Austin August 23rd, third theater center in Houston August 24th, the Vogue Theatre in Vancouver Canada September six more theater in Seattle, Washington September, seventh, the VIC in Chicago September, 20th, masonic Temple in Troy September, twenty one at Penn in Minneapolis September, twenty two
Theater in Philly October, ten, the Kennedy Center in Washington Dc October 11th, Shubert Theatre, Boston, Massachusetts, two shows October twelfth and the shooting of my new special those tickets available. If you want to come to that James Cape look Theater, Nashville October 18th and the Tabernacle in Atlanta October, nineteen, and the Masonic in San Francisco October, 26th. Sixth, that's what's available and you should probably get take. If you can plan that far ahead, I can't I didn't know any of those dates before I just read them to you. I can't if the future is difficult for me. It's never looks good to me so I try to stay in the present. All do the show
all right. Let's do this. How are you with the what the buddies, what the proctors it's Mark- Merrin how's it going. This is my podcast wtf. Welcome to it. I'm at home- I am I'll- probably be home. I'll be on the way home when you listen to this, but I'm not at home. Now I've been in New York City for a few days. As some of you know, maybe you know I don't know I checked in on Instagram, which is a rare event for me. I don't really like the pressure of thinking about either tweeting or doing instagram posts and I've successfully detached from both of them. To the point where I'm like, oh yeah, I should do that occasionally to check in with the phone
State would like to hear from me and I'm not that I'm not that proficient at it but anyway, so some you saw the check and I'll I'll try to do more. Of that. I have been here for a few days and has been pretty fun, I'm trying to just sort of it's what I don't know that this Let me know when you're self employed, you never really know when work is done, so you kind of always work in most of what you do is work related and obviously those of you who've been following. The show know that I'm yeah a little added shorts in a little sort of existentially challenge with my own ability to in gauge with life in, in a way that maybe I could find some joy you're funny in it as opposed to just relief but the I I don't know if
it's it's touching go but but I'm trying and I've been here and I've been- I just had. I came here to New York because I knew surely there was some go promotional event that got moved, but I'd scheduled some interviews to it, because I can that there are certain people. I can't do it that way because they just don't come to la that much. I don't see them and I decided just to come and just do the interviews. The few interviews I had to do by the way my skin and and a console are on the show. Today I their show Penn fifteen is one of the most it's a it's a funny show it's it's a it's a deep show in in I found a very moving, and I don't know if you've watched it. I think it's a it's on Hulu at the first
season. You can stream it on who it's at least two actresses. These two women who I I talked to you know who are actually playing. I believe seventh, seventh graders are eighth graders, seventh graders they're playing them with other seventh graders, so they're they're, they're they're, pretty portraying seventh graders yeah, and there are you know in their thirties, but it's incredible how quickly the device doesn't affect you and how how beautiful what happens and how funny and how sort of human it all see. It's it's really an interesting and funny show, and I and when I watch it, I I'd worked within a comical on Merrin she's on the last season. Ameren she plays a woman who has my baby
and dash, and I and I will like to then I thought she was great as an actress, but they created this. This really unique find but but moving show at ten fifteen, so they're here, they're in or I mean they're, not here, but there I'm gonna talk to them. Look. If you ever had to hire someone, you know how hard it can be. You got you got to find the right candidate to get overwhelmed with.
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I have sold out of hiring and go to ziprecruiter dot com. Slash Merrin today, zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. So I am doing a few interviews here in New York and it's weird, I think, I've kind of worn out my yeah back. When I beginning this saying when I used to do interviews on the road it was because I can, it was hard to get people on the show sometimes are they did now with the show was: are there only in New York and there was an urgency to a like. I got a you know. We gotta get this person and I still, have that to a degree, but I find now when I do these things, that, on the that a MIKE, it's so much better in my house. It's so much better. My studio, you know, there's a comp. Factor I have I'm not worried about other things, a minute, an environment that is conducive and add to it to what I do and I you know I saw I just I had an interview yesterday where I had some technical problems and I'm here the guy that you know you all know and
in the room and we're doing the thing and then the the the recorder office and I notice it's not recording- and I gotta stop myself from completely spinning out with that. With the a big gap, your Yahoo sitting there and I'm like fuck, I mean, if you've heard me spin out and you know then I got to kind of manage that, and you know he was a good sport but it, but it made me feel like a fucking doofus. So I don't I really don't- need any new reasons to feel like a doofus it worked out, but but like a I I I I'm just expressing this view, because it was a feeling I was working through. So after that you know I'd kind of after I felt like it do face and have manage his situation and it all worked out, but it was, it was sort of trying and then, with that kind of tumbled down into some sort of chasm of self about. You know my life and obviously look I'm not complaining everything's going good, but there was just something about that moment that triggered a bunch of other.
Charites and then I was kinda spiraling in you know in the sadness of that I'm dealing With- and you know in in my life a little bit and then and then a it in and I was just I was here in the room, doing that and that's it yeah and then he I've always realize this. But you've got to talk to your friends, man E. I mean go out and talk to your friends. I mean I work. I've told you on this show that, to a lot of times these conversations I have with people, I don't know or the deepest conversations that you know I I have in their full in their in satisfying, but then the person goes away and the and that's it if there's something good about that. But, like your friends, your goal spend time with your friends. If you have him, don't just text him and I'm not great at it. I've only got a few friends, but that
when that happened, I was kind of spinning and unite and I'd made plans with my Buddy SAM website has a few things fell into place me in Brandon. We're supposed to go to see a show there, all my sons, the Arthur Miller, revival that my buddy trace he lets his in and and that banning both of them on the show tracing. I become friends, so you know I texted him to see. If I could, what are the show and his wife set me up with some tickets 'cause? He doesn't like to know when people he knows are in the room: Ann they have Brandon had some issues with his plumbing, so he couldn't go. So I call my friend SAM who I was going to see on Wednesday night, but he said he could do Tuesday night. So I went SAM. We had went to Alex Garner Shelly's restaurant one good thing about doing the show over the years is I do. I don't use the relationships that much and I don't like to use people, but I will give people a heads up. Why have had on the show who I like like if I'm in New York and I want to eat a good dinner I'll text Alex Garner and and I'll,
say like I want to go to. I wanna go to a restaurant, you're gonna, be there I'd like to say hi and she's like no, but you can go go in there. It's not like they give me yeah. I still got to pay and everything, but it's nice to just say hi in. But when you do go to a chef's restaurant, you will get sent a few good dishes that you didn't expect for coming and that if you're me kinda when they arrive at the table, you go like the hot. How we gonna ride looks amazing. I had something that she calls veal bacon. Last night it was just a slab of daddy veal meat, deep we cooked in salted with the sauce on it, and I mean lips. I took one bite each of it and we looked at each other and almost started crying and then we ate of blocking double t bone, and I can't even all I know is it's like it's the day after that happen,
and I don't think I need to eat today, I'm packed with meat, so anyways my point being SAM and I talked we hung out. You know I kind of let go of like whatever I was spiraling about. You know it was great to see my friend and then we go see the play which was phenomenal. This is the other thing I'm talking about new things, is like I don't know, I'm not a theater nerd. I don't know. I haven't read a lot of. Arthur Miller. I know who he is. I know what he's written I've seen a couple of the big plays in one sense or another, wider on d, E n of film production or or or why, but I never saw this one all all my sons and traces in it and it's you know it's an older play and it's about you know some world war two. Two related story, but I don't know the plane. I don't know how it ends, I'm coming to it with a completely new eyes. It mines will come out yesterday. It might as well just been written. I mean I can. I could see that it was dated, but I was completely engaged to the point where we went backstage to say hi to Tracy Internet,
You know they were all sort of freaked out because there was a phone in the theater. That apparently was ringing for six minutes and I didn't even fucking notice because I was immersed in the story and that was great. Tracy was great. The cast was great, it's exciting to go to theater and we go backstage. We see them and then Tracy wants to get some need. So me, and SAM and Tracy we go out to this place. Joe Allen's for food I see Michael Showalter, there he's with a crew of people, and it like this is my. Community. This is my life, and these are my friends and we had a nice chat and I had a good time. I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you. I had a good time. I've had a good time. Ok, I'm saying it out loud. I you know there was some darkness, but there were some fun and I had and I'm at the hotel and there's all these all these fans out front of somebody just mostly teenage girls that look like
We were waiting in that realize. It's the met ball. Apparently some people are staying at this hotel, so there were people out there of all kinds, just waiting to look at people for like two days and then all the time I run into Bob sag at the hotel and a mic. I think there's a lot of people out there waiting to see you so be careful when you go outside, of course, that wasn't true. It's Bob Sagget, I think he's downstairs right now yeah, so I sat there smoked a cigar in front of the hotel, it just kind of watches a few people got into their cars for the met ball. I did not know who they were. I they they seem to be dressed as a. They were wearing theme parks. Almost I just felt like it was just like. What's happening there, an entire this person is is, dressed up as a carnival of some kind, and but it was exciting and they were excited by literally, and I'm just that old man now, where I'm like. Who is that they should? I know that person
is that is that somebody? That's that's always a great old person question is that somebody that must be somebody look at that. Their way bring a building, that it must be somebody. So if you don't know Siriusxm than listen up folks, Sirius Xm brings you the deepest variety of commercial, free music for every genre and for every mood, but it's more than just music. Sirius Xm has the biggest names in talk, entertainment and comedy it's where you get news from every source, plus sports weather traffic. It's all there. People and a lot of people think you need a car to enjoy Siriusxm, but you don't. You can listen outside the car right now. You can get your first three months of Siriusxm outside the car for just and hour just go to Siriusxm dot com, slash WTF, to see offered details and to subscribe for just a buck. You listen to Siriusxm on your phone at home and online
anywhere. You are anytime of day. You can hear your favorite songs or discover new ones. Go to serious, sir. Hi! U S, Xm, DOT, com, Slash W T, F and get your first three months of Sirius Xm outside the car for one dollar, see offer details, offer available to New Siriusxm streaming subscribers you said that, like one of those add guys Siriusxm no car required. So I might go in other play tonight, I'm not going to the more meat and I'm right now gonna share with you. This love. We talk. I had with the my skin in a comical about how the came up with the they're they're. Finding moving show that at ten fifteen, that's it you can stream on who They just got picked up for a second season and then kind of found that where they come from their their journey together. So this is me talking to my aunt Anna
back in my house. Via Stein, skin Scania, Yahoo. Centers it does it does. I don't you yeah, you I'm married, but you can imagine what I've got in my life model moro Marin moron by think they know what they're doing. I think they know they know it's not my name, Anna Konkle, so I work for you on my show you the woman who had my baby, I did yeah, and that was good. It was you are so nice to me That last day of shooting was rough. Oh, my god, member! You were sick. Oh that's right! It was terrible, my black block that out you blacked out loud. I unlocked it out. It was like such a horrible tank and there was a baby yeah. Then the first baby didn't look like we had to do a racist thing right.
What happened I'll tell you yeah, we, got it baby, because when he issue with babies. It's you gotta have two of them yeah and you know the pictures in there. This is a baby that, like I'm, jewish and they were like. You know that this baby can play. So we or the baby, and we shot one thing with the baby and I'm looking at him like you know that that babies black and they would just that is an african am and I'm you know unless we really change what you know yeah. I understand it could be an art thing where you don't. Did not do that is not the show were doing so. I had to say to show runners. What are you guys thinking? We got We have to get a new baby yeah, so we have to. She got a new baby. I should be more racist if you kept that baby and just I don't know if it was racist, I think we were. We were misled. Yes, I believe I'd like to think that that we didn't get what we thought we were getting right and then
text. Baby was alright. The next movie was nice baby yeah yeah yeah did you hold the baby, the baby, that's great how's the baby, and then we had this scene at the end. That last name came out really good, but we're not here to talk about my show or what I know, but I was very happy to be on it and- and that was the first time also seen like someone making their own work and then being in their own, and that was very, some really. I help yeah yeah yeah. So as we talked about it a lot now, you did, you know we did really yeah. She was really impressed by how you were able to and manage running the show, writing it going inside acting direct like it was just something that felt then achievable also like I like, I was watching your show and there details in the shower MIKE. What how why is this like this? It has to be real right here because, like in my show, there's definitely a lot of real stuff, not this so much as he's in urine, because that speculative, but I didn't the the deep, tell us about your parents and that kind of stuff
MIKE this is made up. How may be made up yeah I mean your dad is the real drummer he is, but it's not a loser, drunk no yeah he's. Actually in stealing I mean Dan yeah yeah, he was in steely Dan Brianne. It was his idea to do a steely Dan cover band to make it with less. Yeah, but I mean it's like very specific that you know they're playing at a pool at a hotel. So it's right If I have one sort of weird kind of like question about that, or just like, how is he not more bitter yeah, I I think we could do again morning about at some point, and we also thought it was funny having him be. Like you know, if you on to rise to my last fall, like rain, really need a call, and and for a small town in my town personally, like yeah, art was not celebrated yeah. So I thank that seem realistic that he could.
He will be a small town, celebrity yeah. Of course you can be touring, but it's usually like I like I like that he's a decent guy, because usually the turing sort of low level musician. That's assorted store. It is it's not that's true, but this guy seems like a well adjusted guys happy with his work and they're, pretty good, dad he's not coming home like hungover and fucked up and not wanting to talk to anybody's season two. I think we go into the reality of that, because I think it's funny to have this. We talked about. I have better yeah and it's sort of comes or maybe we didn't end up shooting that. But we wanted to shoot like a scene where he kind of exit out on me and sort of reveals that he's
it is here where his career, but he was hard on you, but not you think that comes from having a bit of a chip on your shoulder to you know what I mean you can play it all out right now we didn't go, do it 'cause, you do keep it around the kids and I think that the idea, like when somebody told me that I saw the billboards for it. Do you call it pensive because my my girlfriend's calling a penis great time, but call yeah technically FED fifteen, don't like at all the way it was that something you wrote in high school. I mean what I know: yeah MIKE Pence. Things are thing yeah really in middle school. You know the cool kids you like her trying club, ten, fifteen and you'd be like yeah. Of course all then they take a sharpie and write pen, fifteen on your hand and then you'd have penis on your hand. You have to explain that to your parents, you know it's pen, fifteen part of a club, you guys well, that was
thing is like. I see the billboards and I was like what the is that right. Yeah show I am now we. We cannot clear that many years ago as like an ode to the rejects and then it's the show kind of it's taken six years to make it. So it's it's. So it's like change, then yeah, six years, six years, yeah and the premise the conceit is that you're in seventh grade. Yes, but your you're surrounded by real seventh graders yeah, you guys are just you you're in your thirties, right, yes, yeah and it's like at first I was how's. That going to work for like within five minutes. You like nuts just sometimes the wrinkles you're just like they don't know what that stuff doesn't matter, because I, like the challenge of playing the emotions of those of that age, it must be pretty satisfying the in the actor way because, like you, my is character. Well, I'm. I'm literally makes me uncomfortable right,
the point, I'm I'm sorry that he knows look to the side, not at my ass, in a good way, because I think that you sort of the does your challenges are different years are primarily parental and her like this, like this, like this weird sexual drive and right problems like the with do plays play this sort of anger pow. It is the confusion about it, so you really sort of go there and it's sort of it must have been if it was awkward for me, it must have been a little awkward for you. I think it was awkward at first because we filmed the masturbation scenes.
Two weeks so we we shot out of order, and here I am in rubbing it out in front of like ten crew, guys just like what the is in a bowl cut and a mustache yeah. They had no idea, you know, and I'm rubbing, like my flat nipples with my little ponies. It was just a an absurd thing to do and to go there, but it is actually x, incredibly cathartic and easy to go to those emotions, because I didn't realize that those are still sober offer me like from that really time yeah. So this is you're actually working through some real trauma in a way yeah yeah I called it a trauma which, which we love really yeah. Well, I mean, but at the same did you? What was your your parents situation? Was it like that yeah? But but that's more the vanilla? To be honest, I don't know
where the vanilla version of that mother characters not that been Noah. I mean yeah, okay, she's on she's, right, she's Miller does a good job but she's. When I left on my mom all doctors, she's, like great she's, amazing, she's, great she's- I don't know like. Why did she agree? I remember seeing him being like how do we get her? Well, no, no eyes is like where she been because I know they always work, but she said she evasive. Taking great actress, I I I always like seeing her and you're always right white. Why isn't she and everything right yeah, I know she's very intense in this verse, she's, so good, she's, really yeah. You do a good impression of her how you doing it's just sort of like hey guys. How do you want? So how should I do this? So wait so it's not quite like your mom she's different. My mom was more kind of it. We're I think, we'd go there. If we got another season by a more into crystals and Ricky
and really really and meditating and what I think so funny about her her as a person was like she was the most you know, rest out? Meditator, like I didn't know anyone more insane and I love her deeply and she is desperate for some sort of spiritual row, yeah and and and an honest in Authentic. With that wasn't ball said it was like. She really is one of the most spiritually yeah people that I know yeah and she and that's, I think, that's kind of common and she like was short circuiting all you know she worked a lot of jobs. She was. She was busy. She had a lot going. She wasn't happy in the relationship with my dad, but they were married for twenty years and they tried to, but it was like it was he on that he probably was on the couch like half of sleeping on the couch, so that's a real thing: yeah so you had to wake up and your dad was sleeping on the couch yeah. I remember my friends coming over an like being like, and I've told you this million times like. Oh, my god, I gotta get the sheets, I could pull the sheets and then, like I remember like
organizing the family photos so that people didn't suspect. Now really very crit yeah. Well. Well, that's Like I said, I mean, I think, that's a real thing and it must be yeah. Some of the the benefit of doing the show is to to sort of really look at their situations and understand kind of in your heart, the pressure, that, were put on you at that age. Yeah 'cause, it's like how is it not dramatic on some level and how does it not really dictate the rest of your life right? that you're just trying to manage chaos at home or you're. Trying to manage not being able to talk about things, and then you look at the life you're living now, and you like, oh my god that's. Why I do that right, yeah totally- and I think you know like I've, been to so much therapy and how much that come. That time comes up, and that was something that my and I really Oh yeah and the you were one of the first people, all women. That would talk about masturbating like at
Party as like funny and like right and what you were shamed of it. This is how I might wait a process there, and it was the same for Anna. She would talk about divorce and make jokes about it right. That was the way to like cut through the dark pain, just making fun of it right, but so there's so many times in which I think is good about the. If you guys having the this show, is that you're still sort of the weirdos in a way, because if you that kind of person that deals with it like that, where you just bring it up and then you got a room for kids going like what like, I think so much about the show that makes it work because you guys are specifically connected and slightly off from the rest of the the standard junior high hierarchy. But everybody like I'll tell you and the kids are great
yeah. I mean I know that guy the Sax player Brenda Lady Allen is the actor is gem he really like. He holds the scene like when he's sitting on the couch you like is in charge. That's exactly what we want from him he's in charge when he nods confidently after Anna Crazy goes off to after he hooks up with Anna he's, like yeah it's like, because he so like you're physically, and he was definitely know the type of guy that he was at that age. He was sort of like like a kind of proud, nerd you not. You know what I mean like cocky, nerd right, right, yeah and also make a man like a fifty year old Year old man, year olds body, and he he he kind of. He was a little different from his character, but he would drink like the large red bull every morning and he was only allowed one and we should
the real guy, the real kid and he would like level out. You know just be so calm during the shooting, after the red, boulder pounding a red ball riddle in effect right exactly but where'd, you grow Massachusetts and Vermont, mostly math, white town situate. My best friend yeah. I know sexually. Why? Alright? I had a troubled friend from Scituate. Well, the dump fees Arthur dump. Oh wow, that no all my third grade teacher was a dumpy. That's the thing! There's generations that know people, don't people don't leave yeah. I spent a lot of time in New England. Like I know for him No, because I went to College in Boston, I went back and started my comedy career there, so I toured all over doing one nighters. All! That's right. I remember you in that weird area, so like how old are you on your parents got divorced? I was fourteen when they told me, and then they lived in the same house for
like split up the house for two years, while they were going to court. Basically, we loved it. How many kids just me are really well, I have a half brother, but he grew up at his dad's house he's eleven years older. So when I was old enough to you know, he was in a different state yeah, which dad how'd that work? The danger on your mom had another husband had another husband or you're dead before my dad, so she's a searcher she's a search, are what does that mean she's searching for love? She is, I mean the spiritual question that there's couple of husbands or if you think the thing that I respect about her and she's given to me which now I go to therapy for is: like always questioning
yeah! Yeah! Always why be confident or secure when you're not right? Is it right, yeah exactly right right, then then always trying to find your rightness yeah great thanks, mom but the but the nice part about it is she's. So courageous in her quest for she like lives, her life you know: she's, not bored, she's interested in mid 70s she's. Always she just told me the other day she's like I have a writing partner. Yeah yeah! Oh no, now she's going to make a show about my God, you're going to be producing a show, I'm up for it or she would be fucking crazy. I would love it love it, but so ok and where did you grow up? I grew up here in LA really yeah. I know the whole time the whole time and I lived in New York for school, but then we met any men in New York, but I grew here and your mom's Japanese, my mom's Japanese,
I've done a drummer from Jersey, that's his ethnicity, exactly drummer real mom in the show yeah. That's my real mom! Really, yes, that's crazy, and see how she acted before now, put her in my student films when I would, you know direct little videos, but she was not an actress and why did you decide to do that? It seems like a big risk. I know is easy. Did it and people do it, but like it's like? Is it worked out risk I mean well, we first filmed a presentation with lonely Island that was like fifteen yeah and we had. Maybe five people come in to audition for the mom and none of them were from Japan and it was really important to me to have someone who was from Japan not put on an accent and she was like well, let's just try it mom and so I'd filmed now an audition tape with her like twenty five tapes. Later you know and one of them and everyone was like she's great.
Ok, let's try this game and she did great, but it was surprising. Is she having a good time she loves it? She does yeah she's she's, really into how different issue from the character, she's she's, pretty different, feel like she's, a milder version of herself and the angry side. Yeah like I think she was scarier, sometimes to me, but then she was also really tender, but there's moments where I'm like whoa. That is you mom. That's you know the part where she's cutting my hair and talking to me, you know like it's. Ok, so that bad felt like did you I'm on. Is that a real thing? The haircut and she's cut my hair? before but never place to bowl onto my head. I would never let that, but you had a haircut that looked similarly like I look like a boy yeah. I was called a boy all that, like young sir, I've said this, But I think it's also interesting that there, like the cultural difference,
between how a japanese household works, and you know and then, like your kids, being fundamentally kind of like just a mare can teenagers, but your mother sensibility is very specific and national in a way yeah and in that, like, I think, that's I've not seen that before yeah and I haven't seen that either really hadn't seen my childhood reflected in a way that I'm like, because I have this really J. Japanese, mom and then an american dad. But he was on tour a lot. So I was very influenced by the japanese culture, but then wanting to glom on to America so your dad was like. Is he jewish? He is not, but I lied and said I was jewish in middle school 'cause I went to a primarily jewish school and I really vector over people. Believe me 'cause. I just said my dad is jewish, so I reply and say I'm half jewish, but he's not there he's agnostic and but nobody was brought up in a hearing. Wasn't a neither was my mom, I mean Buddhist, I guess yeah yeah yeah. I mean that the whole episode with the we're trying to your grandfather- I mean when it when,
but is that a real thing? That is that's like culture I mean in every japanese home you'd, see a shrine of ancestors really and every time you go into someone's home you they like incense and you just pray to them and really yeah. It's just it's become just a cultural and your dad was in steely Dan or there I mean they're, not really a band, but he played on some of their records. He played yeah. He played and toured with them he's been in weather report. He's rejection, he's a he's, a jazz musician wait which albums Dooley Damn records. 'cause I've had some sort of weird a catharsis with steely Dan. I was very against them for all my life but now I mean now I'd love to know. There's no denying you know the skill and the songs, but it always felt barrel to me and there was something annoying about the perfection which is exactly what people like about them. You know like what everyone likes about him like yeah, but I don't feel any soul. Where is the right,
but for some reason I went to a play and we're using steely Dan songs. I just heard something in a different way and I have all the records downstairs. I try every so often engaged, that's so interesting and then guys I got. I finally got it. I realize like when I was on a depth here, and some of these guys are really playing, and you know like I don't I don't know what my version with, but then you have careful 'cause. It will infect your entire brain like if you listen to a lot of steely Dan, like that's all you can if you guys gonna start eating the all music in your head, so funny that you said that, because when I was a four year old, I I don't know how old I was, but there's a video of me on a whole
hell bent and I'm listening to body sofa and I'm like having it's like midnight and I'm just bouncing on the ban going south forty seven, I'm in this religious, you know hole in it a my brain, so I definitely understand what you mean I went there. Did you know you were with them. We went on the road like once or twice yeah. We I mean what years with that, because they didn't tour a lot, nine, all right, yeah as of mid, so you never talked about this with you and I yeah. I know everybody's gone on tour. You wanted our bus in it. Now like. There were hotels, you fly so you need you now you hung out with Becker and Fagen. I hang out with the kids like, I would hang, where is some of them yeah? But there were issues, but I'm not gonna go into it because I'm sure all reveal some Craig said my dad. Are you still that with the kids? No,
well. We were playing in the parking lot and now they're, not we're not. We don't have things I think thread. It was like once a support group yeah, so he was really on a lot of their records in. I cannot tell you, I'm so I know it. I can't tell you how many people that I talk to. They have no idea what their fathers to really has grown up. So I know every detail of my dad being a seven eleven human resource manager yeah. Now that's impressive, a little more interesting than steely Dan right right. No! No, it really is. I thought Vancouver was that it's not that I know about it: seven hundred and eleven human resource, what manager so what well yeah. So he wasn't the director of human resources of the whole EAST coast, although that was a goal,
she state he was a manager and just like managed and train people of like how to be a proper employee at seven, eleven, seven hundred and eleven. So he was in the corporate world there and but then we would get free, slurpees and hot dogs and stuff where they sort ice sore ice, slash sore for PS, seven hundred and eleven bread trying to remember this. Like I grew up in the middle, I grew up in the southwest and there was there was I CS. Remember I see Ian they had the polar bear, bowling yeah. What was here was gassy issue. I thought had a polar bear now now, there's some no differences. Sometimes I I hardly like I was thinking about seven eleven, the other day when I see the sign, I'm comforted somehow everywhere, well that they're still around there, I don't think there, many as they to be but when you see him you sort of like now there's a seven hundred and eleven. I should make note of that just in case, why? Why would I would
they're everywhere comforting because there ever again like I went to Japan and there were seven elevens there in Taiwan right? But did you go to the seven hundred and eleven yeah yeah? and they when you go in Asia, it's I mean high quality for the seven eleven There are, I think, a fresh fish yeah actually takes now yeah, but like raw fish too right yeah, they have sushi. They have I mean it's, I think it's owned by China, a company in China. What is Entre exactly talk to me about it, but now there's raw fish here, like I don't do you eat pokey at Strip Mall pokey places, I'm not going to do it step, mom that no I mean what what is your. I doesn't well, I've done I've done it, but I don't plan on it again, yeah good, so, okay, so your real mom share in, but I, but also that that, like I'm sort of fashion with the culture, even just food. Yeah. Writing like there's all these nuances, in the show that dealing with the struggles of teen of teenage girls who are coming into themselves, but also there's a lot of cultural
you know to that kind of, like that. I found interesting when you eat at their house and you're like what it. What is this that the eight oh yeah like that uses yeah I've? I remember like, even if not even a cultural difference, but the first time you go to a friend's house to eat when you're that age and your use eating whatever garbage your parents pulled together and you're like yeah, yeah makes mashed potatoes right right from real potatoes right. Yet the box yeah yeah. We talked about that yeah. I would have the opposite experience where I would see gushers and all these snacks that we didn't have in our house, and I go ape shit just like tear through so many bags of free can I ask you, remember like a friend of yours coming, over and be like you. Yes, oh really, yeah yeah 'cause, it would smell, I mean there'd be fish and they built this weird, japanese porn, yeah yeah an you know, and also I think, that's gotta be so it also if we had Rahman like if there were fun. Japa
does noodles yeah yeah yeah, but like the fish would kind of fish with throw people off the big head, and then you would also tell me to the whole thing of like opening the fridge ray and I'm coming all right. Opening the my mom asking, which I love, that you did, that yeah hey she. I would have these friends from crossroads where they were. You know pretty, and all that I went across right, but I left because I hated it our show about middle school, but then they would just come in and first thing they would do is open the fridge without asking start rifling through and my mom would watch from a corner. Yes, shame them with hi is a how dare they just opened fridge yeah, I was such a cultural, it's sort of like insane what pair have to deal with and how much they have to kind of just go with the flow. Sometimes you know 'cause when he really think about your parents like what did they fucking know
the a guy. Actually I mean, like my parents, were so young when they have been it's just sort of like when I think about the age that they were when I was like ten and I'm in in a and they were like in their thirties. Might right just to have like these strong willed beings running around fucking up their shit, yeah masturbating in their rooms, yeah, I'm saying they're taking a nap, it was well. How did you like sort of why forward? The show in terms of like you know? How did you outline to deal because these are all specific issues that happened in this time zone and their stuff? That, like I remember, but I was older, but you guys are younger than me that that when a well first start, what was just happening in the dial up, modem and all that stuff? You know, I think it is important episode to show, because that has become literally cultural cancer. That's destroy, saying you know all young minds, yeah, also good for them, but like the first sort of
kind of wandering into chat rooms that your age and your parents don't know what the hell you're doing right and you know it, it turns out to be a sweet story, but it sort of starts this con lot. Darker, that's a very contemporary sort of memory that I don't have as a teenager, but but has a lot of impact, and how did you size chart out the issues that you were going to deal with? Well, the first thing we thought of his we might never get to do this again. So if we only had one season, you know what are all the things that are really important. That happened to us. We would want to explore. So just like put a bunch of you know, we would tell stories for years really start working on this project for six years: oh yeah yeah yeah, let's go back first like so how did weight and also wake this? How long as you go to crossroads, I went from kindergarten to ninth and I translate Moxa 'cause. It was a public art
size because, like I don't know much about it, I know it's like for for rich kids. I know they're sort of yeah missive environment in that it's a kind of like as a kind of a hippie era, stock she's, quite exactly progressive progress, rich people, but there are also some non rich people and I was one of those they. They accept some kids, whoever eldrin, why the celebrity chill there's a lot of celebrity children, a lot of producers, kids right, a lot of wealth on another level like it's just an la industry. Well, that is like in growing up with that, like I, like I'm a grown ass person and when I go this somebody's house, that is, of that yeah, it's sort of like what is this life. I mean. How do you like? I mean
that's the thing is in an elementary school. You didn't really see the class differences or didn't it didn't come up, but once you hit middle school and people started to yeah, buy bags says verses like Prada bag, that you know these are twelve year old cards and then spot mitzvahs barn bought mitzvah as it were. They were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on wedding, like they were massive parties every weekend, and so that was when wealth became huge issue for me and I felt very adequate, and I still do to this day like that. That's something that I hold on to whenever I go to parties and see those people, I'm like. Oh I'm, thirteen and not good enough. Like it. Just goes right back to that. I do too, but you know, as you get older, you realize exactly exactly and they all still hang out with each other, so you going to hang out with, you get to a certain level of wealth. I mean, like you know. Who else are you going to hang out with their right? So some of the cheapest people I know that's how they,
but I'm just saying: that's all they say rich. You know it went into so much credit card debt just to like be in a birthday party in like pay for that person's birthday. That's great in so many memories of the richer people. Think like I can't. I only got it. Remember yeah! So then how did you guys like meat? Originally we met at Nyu and we're doing we're in the tip. Acting program you're, both in the acting part, yeah yeah, but then we were doing like experimental theater, which was very much making your own work, which I feel really kind of she sang on an all black outfit with a turtleneck on, but we were. It was like a lot of rolling on the floor at Nyu at and my we have a that's part of the acting experience: yeah yeah yeah, because a lot here, yeah there was a massage class c class, yeah, really actually yeah yeah you're paying a lot of money. That way so you, when all four years yes
yeah and then we met our junior year of College and then we became best friends and we kind of united in a moment of feeling brilliant, secure and then went I'm we were like creating work for this pro Graham that there was maybe twenty people and we're all making our own stuff and presenting it, and everybody was wing it, and then I was in the bathroom with diarrhea and you were to essentially right yeah diarrhea, yeah cool cool cool. Did you both eat the same thing? No, we just now how bad anxiety, anxiety, anxiety of not we were just talking about this in the cars yeah and it just not being like in something I still deal with, and you were just saying this area diarrhea. If I need get anxious, yeah I don't really anymore? I sweat is happening now I used to swear really. How did you change that?
I don't know. I had talks. No, no, I mean the more so I am where you are of it. The more like I when I was in middle school, yes, I was like my biggest horror when I was dating head with. It's stain need to all and I went through so much all different deodorants and my dad was a doctor MIKE. Is there a surgery I could get to like not? I was so freaked out about their surgery, sure they could remove sweat glands. I guess, but it's a little much and then you know after a certain point, I was just like fuck it and like Now I just I don't even wear deodorant or nothing and you don't smell or so what happened? I don't smell bad yeah, you don't smell right now. Why were Pachu Lee and I have for decades so like that? But this That thing was so embarrassing for some reason I don't the same thing it would be. Winter would be freezing and I would have
which stands in my little limited to looking shirt on and I was trying to be feminine and you know it just felt like the opposite and then I talked to my doctor and and which was horrifying, which we maybe should use and and- and she prescribed me like medical grade to the owner and he all right, and it worked yes and I email my doctor recently because you can email your doctors now yeah for the same thing and she said it's too dangerous yeah. It scares me that scared for you yeah. I remember I tried that stuff and I don't know when it stopped, but, like I don't have the problem anymore. I don't why it went away, but my stress it does diff things so like over. My life, like I've had back. You know stressed action had tightness of chest. Stress headache stress that tight neck, like it's coughing, I'll cough alot. I'll go through my thought. I had lung cancer, but it was really just really anxiety. I think how did you find out because I was taking like
herbal medicine and trying to change my diet because they thought it was acid reflux or they thought it. I am a c f or so they thought it was from some writing, but I didn't quit and- and it just went away when the stress sort of no clearly transferred somewhere else. I'm glad that I never I never vomiting or diarrhea thing you're, so really yeah. I do like you know like with stage fright or doing what I do the stand up. Even at the beginning, when I was terrified I did, I did not yeah there's people that just can't they have to run to the ballot about constipation doesn't manifest in a different way. Sorry, so they no, I usually would manifest in sweat. Like I had a lot of like tingling me, I get that too. I get everything you just said. You have quite a show yeah. I really have the real thing when I I I'll start breathing shallowly and then all of a sudden my hands go into clause in the like. You can't get him out now
number one, not till the end of the audition. It's happened in audition, there's a medical name for it. It's a real pidal spasms, relieve yeah I I've had the tingling limb thing is a big one like I just live Anna yeah. I do yeah everywhere, but it's just like I mean after a certain point, you're like this is just this just life yeah yeah tingling right now. I am too really yeah, probably just learned his on it out yeah constant tingling, like in your it's like pins and needles, kind of yelling, more sparkly yeah and it like sometimes sometimes it's both hands and sometimes and it just sort of like. I guess this- is it going away when you have these symptoms, how many times when you go to the doctor and they're like what yeah? I know it is nerve, right, nerve, it's nerve and know that they're gonna say that, like I'm, gonna walk in there and say, like my back, hurts I'm having some tingling, I'm I'm not reading right. Could you tell me what I have in there like you're? I find it's got well that
drinking so much coffee right. It's right. I know I I have I'm a big advocate for for advocating for yourself in medical yeah. You should go to the doctor if you're really sick, but right no wait a minute. You right way to write a minute, my mom yeah and then see how you feel I don't that's. A really tough to learn is sort of like already feel this right. Now, let's give it a day or two and see what happens. 'cause like yeah, especially with when he had the health coverage with after or whatever it's just go over to Bob Hope Center and deal with what I, like, the Bob Hope Center. Fine. Do you trust them trust I don't know I don't try. I mean I have a hard time, trusting doctors just in general, 'cause, I'm a I'm a hypochondriac mean. Do you still like this? I checked my pulse. Wants me to eat you. Do you have flutters? Sometimes your hearts right did skip it slips yeah. My time like, okay, just wanted to my throat what happened?
still running Ociety. Alright, let's calm down, I used to be horrible hypochondriac tonight I just got better. How do you fix it by taking some sort of pause, as you like it like wait a day or two like whatever you're Experi, Ng M yeah if you're walking and Your your visions relatively clear right if you're not falling down or you coughing up blood you from, in my path right, yeah, yeah yeah? I can do that. I think it's I've stopped. Looking on Webmd, that's a major improvement for me. I don't know I know, but I was doing that everyday for awhile, yeah, she's, also, you've gotten a full, I haven't, got a full scan. I would you know, got a scam or I went to Japan and they do in Japan for eight hundred dollars. You can get like an mri of the colonoscopy all at once in one day. Why did that? For my heart, but, like you get older things actually do happen right right. You get blood testing right now. What what but I gotta do what yeah.
No more that damn it and then you have to just. Then you have to change yeah, that's when it really gets real. That's one hypochondria starts to settle down. A little bit is sort of like oh, there are actual real things right and I don't have most of them when you're young, you don't right now so by panic about it before is actually coming. I try to figure out what the what it came from, because my my dad doctor anyways a bit detached, so one way you can communicate with them as I'm dying well right, yeah. I think a lot of it has to do with wanting to feel comforted. But a lot of times you go to the doctor and they're like? Well, we don't know, let's do some tests like what do you mean right yeah? What kind of tests 'cause it's funny 'cause? I? all all have symptoms, but then I won't quit the things that are actually bad for me like smoking. So I we were ever cyclical. You quit. I did, but I'm on nicotine lozenges. I have been for like a decade while they're great that's great yeah
I can, then you go to sleep with them. Liking do anywhere, so you just have Nikada on jobs, a long article outside half nauseous all the time. It's not the nicotine. For me, it's the it's. The it's happened, yeah. I know yeah, but try going without the nicotine has echo right. Yeah, maybe try lost power, pile awesomeness. I had to give blood tests for like IO, check my cholesterol yeah. It can become. I go to the Bob hope they do the test and there's some other account. There. White cell counts like fucked up, and I'm like why not and she's like. I don't know this wasn't happening before MIKE. What does that mean so that go to a blood doctor and he doesn't test and you by the time the boy blood doctor said the white ones are okay, but you have a platelets problem like what does that mean to them. Looking at like it's like some of that shit. Just like,
some days are better than others right. Maybe you ate some rain. I had a cut on my finger that was probably escalate. Yeah knows you shouldn't have a blood test once a year. We should have blood tests every day because it does change every day. You are going to say we we shouldn't do it every year. We should do like a once a day. I'm saying I'm contracts like we should get it at that. I'm just saying not every day, but if we could, I mean I was the whole thing with their nose. I just watch that document yeah so but but like if you could just see it the a pattern with the blood, I would be wearing either yeah as a or you let go anywhere you go, which I don't do guys bonded around diarrhea and our and I every and I have a country as like a nice. You know what was nothing more had to do. What did we say it? I don't know we have to so it was studying. Brechtian fairy tales
The free yeah, I'm already anxious right now right, so we had to tell a personal story through a frame like a frame that removes yourself from it. So there's distance and me and Anna were just kept. I kept telling stories that weren't working, so I couldn't even get through the first is a vet, and everyone has already created these amazing free teams in you, and I, on the day of the show, were just we had been working all night on our own things and what which was like four p watching, I mean it wasn't like a huge thing. It was in uh like classroom, but it was an intensive theater program. So it was very what's a brechtian frame so it was through. I mean I couldn't tell you Maya. It was like so say I was telling a personal, sorry about like masturbating and I'd have to put it through a frame of like ok. This is a cooking
Joann, I somehow connect that through a cooking show of I'm telling this story, but it's in it's like what we do with one thousand and fifteen. So it's the device yeah yeah. Now, ok so you guys meet there and and, and you start being together there we had fish, we made a dance together, that program and then just best friend yeah, and then we kept talk think about making our own work out of school, when, when we were auditioning for theater in New York and stuff and then and then we didn't and then my actually move to LA back home back home. Where do you live in the city? Dorms dorms orbit, and then I was in Brooklyn for a little bit and an apartment in e village. Me too Lori side, yeah, there's anywhere yeah. Second, between ab me to get outta here. Second, between Amb, where the murder was no was Amazon Orchard.
We try a second between a and b and then I went to third between b and see how the markets we second name, be. It's so specific. I swear on my life secondary name, be I loved it yeah. I was there in like the late eighties. It was a change that show yeah same address. I mean don't remember my was one fifty nine east. I could be making that up the second street. That might be right, something like that. Was it the big bill like a lot of apartments. No mine was very thin building was then it was right next to where they did all the can recycling. It was probably closer to be yeah me too, and it was on the north side of the street. Yeah was it next to where they were always doing something with recycling cans Is there like a garage right next to it? Now I don't remember that I have to like. I don't remember my dress. My window was facing like the street yeah me too,
hey guys we lived, we lived in the same place where we live in the same apartment or you renting it from somebody like a landlord like a lady Did somebody own the thing, and I can't remember I did it with a friend our two bedroom apart? Was it two bedroom? No ok, so we were in it for building. I was definitely one room with a kitchen that was the hallway to the bathroom. Hey Cortana is like a room. There is a slight indention and then like the rest of the room, then there was a kitchen that you had to walk through. The back a railroad apartment. We got your part well, I had a toilet in a closet in the snow and I was able to have that and then I had my also my shower was in because it like it was literally a high old closet and you close the door and then you just it was real. Weird might a lot of women I was dating, had a shower. That was actually a kitchen counter that you had to lift it out, get out of their hotel blind. He said those are you vacation. Well, that's cool yeah! I guess it's
the the the the way we had to adapt to the space in New York? It was still in your life, excited yeah and you're like thank you so much. I think there was more cuddling or had a shower in the middle of her apartment. She was on the show yeah. I know I've known her forever she's a great okay. We do comedy together for like a million years ago I mean I I've known her for ever and she had the idea. Why? Obviously, I've been to that apartment in the eighties that they see, as I recall when he sought, talked or ask your if there was a shower in the middle of her apartment, but is that the one of the counter that you just so that's just a shower this? This is a shower in the middle of the apartment. I'm pretty sure I think I might have swept in her house once for some reason, not that ok, alright, so ok, so you meet their your New York. An is this where you start talking about doing this show
no. I think we were talking about making theater and you never did it and then my doing like strange downtown, better than mine, but not with this cool off off off off off. He had do that it was required. As artists, only job you could get. We wanted it yeah job I mean working for free. This was the interesting thing to me is like I talk to a lot of people that do the make shows and do stuff, but you're, not you're, not in this community. Now, like neither of you, went through Ucb, you weren't, you have part of an improv crew, probably 'cause of anxiety but it's weird that, like you guys, were straight up actors doing that thing, but all this stuff, that really a lot of people in comedy come from was meaning, I mean you see, Be- was happening right for you guys if you guys didn't even deal with that world. That's why it was sort of like when I saw that shows like one of them must be from that right, but you're not
right is that's a rare thing I think. Well, I will fell like under a rock in the dark. With all of that, like I didn't, I never really knew about a lot of that stuff to be totally honest, which I know sounds ridiculous yeah. What was working restaurant thought it was really big. I'm just trying to like do your your. If you did not you, you weren't, seeking to become a knight. No, I was the rabbi that way were actors in theater. Why not right that's who fell at times? I don't wanna speak for you Billy out of place, because and that's why you found the experimental world was because you could, because comedy and sadness for a lot of it was together as I can play weird characters, and that was fine. My first like didn't meeting I said to her, you know I can play men, I can play women, I can play all age and she was like by you know: 'cause, that's not traditional and I don't know what to do with, you know that doesn't make sense yeah it's too much and that there was room for the an experimental theater. You could do all that you know
so we made that and she's so funny, and so I was like. I want to make something with you. That's funny, because we connected on with our humor yeah, but that, but like this I kind of kind of like informing as I'm sitting here? What makes the show different from so many vehicles created by sketch perform. Is that your instinct is really never to go broad right so you're not doing as for the laugh in the same way, a sketch performer who is trained an improvising characters in it would do it like day, which makes it more authentic, which has can do because you guys are a real actors to a degree the way approach, these roles and why sort of seamless is because you're acting the emotions and you're not trying
B, comic character, yeah. I think that was so. I'm probably a misconception that I had about, like you see, be an improv was now I and why it gave me anxiety to join. That was because I was like I can't deal with the with the pressure to be funny. If I feel I have to be funny, then I'm going clam up, and I know that's actually not the intention. It a lot of people who are in improv and sketch or like it's not about that. You know: go ahead No, no, no! You go, but he is like, with years of improv yeah with what what they learn is like Dell, eight and they'll say we don't play for comedy will play it straight, but they are so adept at knowing exactly how they're funny right e l, a n any become sort of a character like they they fit a certain type. Where is, I think you guys in the show, our our are playing the emotions? You know very on there. It's earnest and
in the comedy, just comes from the discomfort of of these girls. Thank you yeah. I yeah, I think the car Many that I'm always interested in is is when it's coming from a truthful place. Right about when it's from a character or is right away sure. I suppose that I am not good, because I respect people who can come up with really funny jokes. I wish I could. I can't I yes and that's not how my brain works yeah and I and I think, a lot of times to the things that we talk about this a little bit, keep doing that. We've talked about this a little bit that that I always felt like. I was laughing at the wrong times, so I could be watching a comedy and I wouldn't laughing when everybody else is laughing or I'd be laughing alone at the or I could be watching something really sad right and I could be hysterically. I mean we'd, better, not situation before where many times the discomfort lasted. For or something so sad, which is universal, which makes me think of something I don't know
it's just so, is something so insightful and tragic at the same time. For some reason, that's something that makes laughed really hard yeah and I think, I'm very serious emotional yeah. I two serious so yeah. I think a lot of 'em using comedians. Actually, that's the in with the laughter that should be crying right right is going on and as soon as my fave I yeah, I don't really care if I'm laughing and crying I love doing. I love to watch something and be like, but just destroyed lease yeah, yeah, yeah release. It makes me feel not alone and makes me feel like I'm, not a week, and everybody else is kind of fucked up too. I think that I think that is what the shows about yeah yeah because, like that, because this is where that happens every day, right, right, yeah, middle school, yeah, the I because you're like any like it to play that weird kind of like because you're still forming you know like there eat. You know like it's like this. We
third pivotal of the thing where you feel all the other kids like they're, like they're, just kind of come into this. You know adult, don't yeah, and it's so horribly awkward yeah. They have to kind of move through life with enough confidence. They they don't you know, there's insecurities are being in middle school, but you think you're cool the grown up, right, right, right, right and and you're and and then we talk about this, like you're kind of in between childhood and not even an teenager. Like yeah, I think, there's a space in between and and my and I realize this when we both like. I remembered they don't tell anybody about. I was super flat and then and then grew nipples before anything else, and then it was just this time of like a flat. Gordon Nipples and then for someone else got me too. We never talked about it's not something to talk about. I felt like the only freak with that you know and I I had to stop it It's a circuit weird! This is messed up, but I don't know. Well, I don't know say it
while we're we're all the same at one point like just thinking like how deeply flat I was I'm not far from it now, but it it's a little different and when I was a kid in how girls and boy These really similar. I don't know anyway. This is sort of wasn't Think about that, like what were you thinking about the flat yeah, just like flat, flat flat chest like all kind of the same physically from the waist up right until all of a sudden school you get these. Falls right. What it was for me, these, like unlucky, puff balls right and then and then all of them, the young they were bites of an episode in the next season may be involved, keep up, and then you try to hide them and then yeah. What did you do? Wasn't there an episode where you look at like one of the other girls boobs and they were actually not yeah right?
Those were like balloons. That was me actually, but when they throw rice filled with SAM, and girls who had you know W Jianjun. That was its own. Nightmare. Everyone is going through their own, you know, and then you start bleeding out of your vagina- and we don't talk about that enough for sure it's a time of morning. I think because you're grieving your childhood you're being forced to like that period, episodes crazy. You know you're forced to leave that behind an yet you're kind of excited to have these adult emotions, but you're not able to process them yet. So it's just a fucked up time for now, I have to assume that the giant pad moment with the yeah has got to be something women relate to like, like,
I guess we're someone tries to help out there like here you go yeah. How do I feel that I am to me yeah there's no way I mean I didn't do it for a year I wore. I know I had it for a year because I was so ashamed, and so I would make pads out of toilet paper that were about that. What, in your in light, I would say that was normal. How I like how would I was one of the first, I think, to get it out in my years, so yeah one talked about it and I just felt like a monster where's mom on that one I didn't tell her. I didn't want her to know because I thought it would make her love me less like. That was the way I understood it. If I become a woman, I'm no longer a child, I'm no longer, not because you were menaced rating, but because you are now grown up review, it wasn't you, it wasn't abnormal
No, I knew it was normal and I was like, oh my god, also the reality setting in of this is going to happen for the rest of my life like once a month. That is a crazy ass and you think about like how we relate. I think, about this, a lot but like bathroom stuff, you're not supposed to talk about it, but yet all of these women are experiencing it or girls, and then I mean if a penis bled for days every month and you have to like actually hide it 'cause, it's not cool to just like let it out right. I mean that creates the it's weird and I will say that just you and I talking about it and putting it in the show was still scary and you This is Ben something forever and it's still weird to talk about like it still makes. I don't know a lot of my best girlfriends stories about. First are very it or what it looks like or what a I mean. Usually I don't talk about it yeah I yeah.
Because it's uh yeah it is it your not taught it's hot. You know really mean it taught to be hot traffic to some extent. Yeah yeah yeah! I know you guys have boners in school that was there There are worse with your books, but the book yet, but that's not the same. It's all the same, no was also accepted in the sense, and we have like It's funny, and I get a lot of those boners- are don't come from anywhere right now. I gotta be so weird yeah, but it's not blood, you're right. It's not blood, they have to worry. Is you know leaking oil? I highly like. As a dude I mean I, I don't know that I'd seen it exported that thoroughly and I I I out like I was seeing something for the first time. The struggle it's kind of nice, yeah now if it is nice, I 'cause. I think that, like if there's anything that's happening which God is in terms of gender Sensitivity- is that you know we become,
of whatever shame happened, culturally, that we don't it's hard for to be empathetic. Is we can't be well? How do you write and and when you see something like that, you like most God, that's a funny and nightmares right, yeah and it just we just help, yeah, it's and and the and something I was so grateful to MIA for, was being willing to talk about masturbating at that age which in this show and it as an adult that scaring me too, and that making me sad that it scared me and then you being willing to do it and wanting us to put it in the show and I'll do it. Fuck outta me. I thought the great thing about that was glad you transcended the fear but that that age, where you masturbate, but you don't really know why
you're having the feelings you can attach and the things and you're just looking at sand or whatever windows and yeah. I thought that was genius is right. There is a period there where you have no sex education, but you know you can come right like it's, not really you connected to anything in the eye. What what do it turns out gets you. There is like something sort of sweet and poetic and not filthy right right. It doesn't matter, I'm just having these turn your feelings on it, and it's weird that I instinctually knew how to do it too, like how to I think I'm sure myself, I mean yeah, just animals, yeah yeah you on a bike. Something right and then to come. The first time is pretty powerful. I've been talking about it on stage likely like about that yeah there's right time.
Well, yeah 'cause. I like I stuck my dick in a bath water coming out of a faucet and- and it was just sort of like what's going on, I just wait in the bath in the like. The water was coming out hard and I must been like ten or eleven and somehow I got it in there and I just left it in there and then it happened. I don't know if I was going to stop yeah. Did you feel like you had done something wrong or have you seen examples and no one's ever heard it and movies, or whatever I don't know I mean. I don't know that I felt like I did something wrong. I I I I I I knowing I cracked the code. Yes, this is something I'm glad. I had read our right and then I I grew up with that, like for some reason that we like the jewish K, kids, I don't know why everybody was pretty open about jerking off. And you know, there's always a conversation yeah and it now. I didn't feel much shame it wasn't girls. You didn't hear the girl talk about,
No, you know the thing that we yeah. I mean it's not that people know this, but I don't you talk about amongst yourselves. I don't know no, we didn't talk about it with girls right now, embedded and talk about with each other, like it was level revolutionary. For me in college, as a progressive one, and here my talk about it yeah. Let me talking about it. Then other people would start talking about and be like. Oh my god, you two ok, so I wasn't a freak or a pervert. I mean that is what is instilled in your head as a kid as a girl, too, I did a joke about it. 'cause I had how much time about it- and I know girls masturbating I've- seen them, do it yeah? in front of it hope so. Yeah convex, you know that's nice. That happen of course words by e into a joke about the uh the first time you see a masturbate in front of you
like wow that thing can take a beating. So you see, I thought it was like a delicate flower. You can really go at it. That's great! Let's see him and body I mean it's, it's durable! It is brilliant. Well, this is the intensity, the intensity of anyone's particular style. You know there there like a it. What I'm speaking tours like, I thought it had to be handled with a certain amount of Dell. Life have felt that way with yeah. Also that I like it it's a deli. I don't want to hurt. 'cause like I was so scared to hurt it. Oh my god, and I definitely scared you did hurt it yeah pulling on it. I just it didn't. I was very well that was later, but I I was very ending was later yeah. It was like rubbing sticks for fire. It worked out right. You said it was cleaning out a paper. Oh my god, ok trick. So what
I was going to say was was I going to say about hurting a yeah? The first hi. I was very, very, very scared and I had been you shamed as a younger person. Not having done anything sexual nerves, rumor that one around about me and blah blah, and I So I didn't end up going that the the until junior year of high school, which in my town is very low- and we were- is like the middle of the night in the woods next to a car unit. Dude, I mean a dude and he was my boyfriend. We've been dating for a while. He broke up with me soon after and and it was just like very dry in retrospect- and- and I just didn't- I mean if nothing happens, because it was in retrospect, it was just like I don't know, relaxing at like sandpaper on them. You know I mean I
I've I feel like I haven't. Given that many hand, jobs in my life I mean maybe were going into too many personal details, but the I had a home later, I'm just gonna be reeling of like why had sex before doing any of those things, because why was too scared to yeah? I yeah I like hand. Jobs are ok like what I'm going to be able to do better by always yeah and you don't want to like it and then, if they get involved in there trying is just like I'll. Do it do you know that guy Ray it's hard hand, jobs are difficult there difficult, hard, yeah yeah. It's. I think that there's like a fear around. It's, not your own body, sure how everybody so yeah you're going to hurt them, and you might. If you're me, I'm a master with myself. You know now yeah over a course yeah yeah yeah. Yeah by that so went. So. How does this? How is it six years.
Well, we don't know how to write yeah so that was Would the concept come from you're just sort of you talking or you did a bit, but we brainstormed with our other co creator say we will yeah and, and so we you know, came up with the idea, yeah and then decided. We wanted to write the show, but each year we would think it would happen, and it just would go nowhere, and it also was the first script we wrote was like fifty eight pages with eighty two. We didn't know what we're doing and so it it took. I don't know what a couple years before we got to a presentation or yeah. We got to make a fifteen minute kind of short film to see if it would work yeah and we thought that it dead and then so that helped, and it was definitely I mean, I don't think it would have been made without getting to make that short thing, to show that this is a concept that could make sense right and then and then it took two or three years too. I mean it kind of
right and came back to life, many many times the end of a miracle it was actually made and who they were into it they were into it. From the beginning. I mean we only pitched it to three places and 'cause at the time Fox was attached and they weren't making deals with a lot of places. I guess and but we were lucky enough- that Yahoo want to make and then yeah you you just I fully under estimated how long it to like the contract, closing and stuff like that yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I just it's yeah every year. I feel like it's going to be next year for sure I gotta keep it clear and I'd be wrong and when okay, it down. You just want from your personal stories like these are the issues, because each each episode has a few things that very specific right to the time, and then you guys such great performances out of all the kids, it's kind of crazy, so good they really liked out yeah. I mean I think that most of the episodes have
moments that really happened to us, but we, you know we wanted it to be episodic, but lately serialized that there was like a little bit of a story that you followed in an arc in the ark was kind of mean needing each. I to survive. You know you can be alone. Are you can be a reject? But by yourself you will die yeah right was somebody else. That's the difference. I think of life and death at that point, and my and I in real life both had that person. So we- and I feel like that with you and are real friendship through it- is that has the right wing polity to it of like how do I get through the day? Okay, I have my you know that that's true, and so we wanted that to be in there and a loss of innocence to be in there, but still retain enough in a sense that if we have future seasons, we could go into more mature content later still staying in seven great, I mean that the idea that I would see you know you're not going to go to eighth grade. The idea is, like limbo, forever the metaphor of how we feel as you,
see you never leave, but that we could continue to grow and change and a lot of stories and lot of experiences through that right, yeah like high school experiences, but in seventh grade it. So that's what I get conscious decision like we're, not going to go to a great ever for now yeah, because because what would happen, I mean for open a few thanks like what's going to happen, you're going to grow you're going to grow out of some awkward period and then you're going to assemble. More, probably I mean that's right, that's become more conscious of our, or at least our show is about being in that middle being stops being stuck in between yeah. I understand that and I respect that decision but like it stays pretty shitty throughout high school, some people now here Myers get home station yeah
yeah I mean we have to think on it or it seems like the hierarchy still exist and that your entering these weird, insecure, secure areas just no more by, but I think it it would be harder to maintain the innocence, yeah free time changes. I think that yeah that yeah, that you you you cross from like nine, because I the whole point in some way was like you're, not child and you're, not team, right, you're right you're in you're in this very bizarre in between stage where these body is changing or the surroundings and and and ideas of what you should know are changing, but you don't have the ability to properly cope with that. You don't know what to do and I think if we give it enough time to get older than you would learn what to do, but right who knows maybe will swallow or maybe the last season is. I mean you've got make a few seasons in seventh grade that you know no one's going to but yeah. I think maybe that's what I was thinking too, that, like we definitely have been exhausted. Seventh,
you know. So maybe if we felt like that we could continue on yeah. Well, I loved it great job thank you for having us. Ok, that was fun. I love them and I love the show Penn fifty meaning streaming on Hulu now and I guess we're going to be looking forward to a season two I think they should grow up with, did so they're going to have a real hard time with casting 'cause all those key, the user. That age, I think they should. Probably each season should be the next grade. I'm going to I'm going. Be the guy that I'm going to Dm Anna and tell her maybe should just keep growing up with the kids that you've already cast. I think I said that the tell him that, if you don't know Siriusxm, then listen up commercial free music was sports, talk, comedy and news, they have it all people and right now you can get your first three months of Siriusxm outside the car, for just one dollar
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-12.