It’s been 20 years since Marc demanded that someone “lock the gates” on Billy Crudup and the rest of the band in Almost Famous. Now that both of them are older and wiser, Billy and Marc discuss the simultaneous drudgery and privilege of acting. They also talk about why Billy often opted for roles in the theater over roles in movies, why he thinks he wasn’t destined to be a Hollywood leading man, and how he’s settled into a career as a character actor by virtue of only taking the parts he finds interesting.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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all right. Let's do this: how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck Nix what's happening
our mare, and this is my podcast, w e f
how's it going. Are you guys all right, I'm not home,
try. It sounds like this. I got out how to get out
it was scary. Get now, but I got out. I definitely got out
I admit: I'm am I'm recording right now in a casino
behind the house outside of Taos Village in New Mexico, where I grew up,
not in town. I grew up in New Mexico. I felt I need
do something monkey was gone. He was sort of keeping me tethered to the house, so I could care form
lay obviously is gone, and also I wanted to point out that today
Am I to do this now circulating
I need to do it today would have been less Shelton. Fifty fifth birthday, happy birthday when you are missed, dearly,
Sprightly, sadly, in all ways, Mr Andor, to assist a fuckin, it's ridiculous. What a goddamn
rip off tat, everybody alive tat, woman is not here really
so much more life could have been had
with or without me, but in Britain
Happy birthday. I do want to say that there is something that has been set up in her honor. A buyer.
Father and her her husband, her
husband, it's too it's a fire
at the school where their son went where my went
is the it's a school for people who have hearing impairment, you can go donate
It would be a nice thing to do. If you go to
North West school dot com, so donate your.
See right there at the top, the Shelton Seal family Fund,
and it was set up in honour of of wind,
and her son my wound in the school that help them so much northwest.
Cool dot com, Swash donate these Shelton Seal
family fund is something you can do this proactive and very specific and helps very specific people in a very
Big way. Are you very, Mr Wynn also
What is more, Lynn NEWS, if you go with it,
Two lynn and her television work for
American Cinema Tech last night or the night before
we're last live.
It was a panel,
It was me and John Hammond Reese Witherspoon, Mikhail Watkins Eddie.
Weighing carry Washington. It was great whose great
You can go to American Cinema attack that Cinema tee
it's a cue. You ye american Cinema, tech, dot com and
go to their virtues.
Programming. So it's swell
virtual dash programming. They got.
It's odd thing tonight. It looks like her last night, but there
is when Shelton tribute Virtual,
Q and a it's also on Youtube. That'll, get you to the Youtube, I believe
I think we got a radical stuff on there. Free plug a free blog for
American Cinema Tech. They deserve it. They got a couple outwits. It aren't operate.
You mean couple theatres,
that being said, oh by the
did- I mentioned Billy Crude up is here on the show
Billy Crude up, is on the
today in this is the first time
I've ever pronounced it crude up instead of credit, which is wrong so its crude up and these here I talk
M back in the house on the on the computer and was pretty great it's. It was pretty great conversation
so look. I couldn't leave my house because
Monkey was ill and I
I kind of made a promise to myself that when monkey past or when I passed him with when I helped him out indeed a final, the final frontier
here the big leap that I would try to get away because I've been I've been.
Home, like many of you for from
and saw end. However long it's been since March Middle
Archie and a march pretty much
oh mix for a drive to me?
I will be with men one day but home
eating at home, cooking at home, granted some take
how did been happening. People were sending me food, but everything has been done in the home in the house were much
he was sick were lined, was sick. Where
I don't have your mind,
she's, not haunted with grief, but I am haunted with grief and I know
It was possible. Was it possible? Is it possible to to go out, and
being the world. Here's what I did.
I got it in my head. I needed to go somewhere. I couldn't fly anywhere really in and feel ok cause. You know me, I'm getting fuckin covered test every
weeks or so just because
unites, I'm being safe, but I am just a mortal nuts will paranoid but Amy Ike
I don't know that I'm getting less so, but I
I decided I should come home I should go to that- would
round me that with your grandma
art thou ground my mind, I would
up into northern New Mexico. Maybe I could go to town specifically and just
up into the hills into the mountains into
air into those into the interior,
sky into the big frequency that I talked about and the tap into the big frequency.
So what I did was I joined
Airbus and which had not been on, I never went to urban, be ever I'd always,
but hotels. I dont know I was air being be adverse for years.
But for some reason, just like fuck it on a joint, and I made the reservation and the woman who owns a house got back to me and said: I don't know why they let you do this, I don't usually etc,
innovations from from people who have not been on the planet.
Form before for new bees. I guess I would be
Put any bio info. You there's no picture. I don't know anything about you
I'm sorry, I'm not I'm not sure. I'm comfortable with this reservation, my holy fuck, where I do
so I wrote her message drew back. I said: look, I'm not fifty and fifty six.
Is all don't drink. I don't smoke. I have just gone through some new,
tragic loss in my life, I'm in the entertainment business M Comic writer, podcast host producer guy
I mean you, I'm ok. I grew up in New Mexico is looking for forwarding.
Coming home, and maybe you re group,
what kind and second rambles on within sent that after an
Your cup hours later she writes back what actual too much information. I really just needed. A bio like you, like you, put on a social networking platform or social media platform. Whatever
ok, well or I'll? Do that? But can I can I come
She said he I am here and it's lovely. It's great.
But I had no idea just how tariffs
I'd be to leave the house to get on the road, what to bring plenty of hand, sanitizing all my different kinds of masks, hats, Maya.
My my plexiglas face. Protectors
I just had no idea what it would be like to drive out of my
five mile radius
you know, I made a reservation at the Mariette
courtyard in Flagstaff and unlike what can what's what she can a fuckin,
you, like they're in Arizona, is going to be crazy. Our people can it be like
not giving a shit. Is it just going to be just? Are there
Am I just going beyond the highway with new covered,
pilgrims from all over the place out spreading
the virus far and wide what's happening. It was. I was terrified to leave.
And I knew other people are doing it. I knew that I friends were driving,
a country I was like: how are they doing it? Then I realize I do just do what you do
here when you go to the supermarket, just do what you do here. You know, I told you, I think, secretly between us that these two young ladys
it and ninety five mask set. I covet they were given
me by my friend kit.
And an icon
but then my we use them. When I go into in supermarkets and stuff there, not the casual, your wife can
up the hill walking outside checking into
tell, but I'm going to spend some time and a place, a go for people
Do you not put on it and I
five and a face screen. So I'm DR and I'm fuelled up. I'm scared to stop at fucking gas stations, it's crazy and then
MIKE I dont, know what it was, but just being in the hotel room at you. I spend a lot of my wife and hotel rooms and I just felt so alien five months.
Had been in a hotel room haven't eaten anywhere, but my house, I drove I ordered- dare take out at this.
It was called red curry. Tire, red pepper, tie
whatever it was on the list of the seven restaurants. You can eat an flagstaff, but I'll just
Take out everyone's in a mask, ordered this tape. Vague in its are vague and vague
curries and some fried tofu and brought it all back
The room and I dont know whether, with fear or
or just the excitement. I dont know what what was going on, but it was like the best food aid.
Every evening, my entire fucking life. It was like the food
freedom or something I don't know. Maybe it was the best typhoid ever I dont I'd, probably not, but there was just so,
think about not eating at home being out
it was. Everything was all electrified, it was, it was great great food and I enough that could continue
but the next morning I got up, got out messed up hit the road again made
the now here's. Now here's gets sad because I'm going to my hometown, if staying at LOS poblanos for the night, they gimme a beautiful sweet,
but there's fires in northern New Mexico, Sir. This there's this orange apocalyptic haze all over,
can New Mexico to just like California and I'm holy shit. You
he can't get away. It really is over what the fuck is happening. What is happening with this happen
The plague is going to, fires are going and I can't even get away from it. In my hometown, I'm down the street from my house. I can't get away from it
was so sad- I had to see my dad-
won't you did it anyway. Spent forty five minutes in and out touched base, sat told him. I love them. Talk to his wife. Talk to him. They pray gave me covered left now.
Thousand enough and then the next day I drove to Santa FE right. When I got
and went to tear Sophia's got some actual
this green chile, chicken and toys, were green chile. For me, my buddy Devon took him up to his house and I took a couple bite.
In and you're handsome devil seen devenant along time he's a dear friend and we go way back
and I love the guy-
by an oh yeah, he just sort of your right, had just taken a bite of my group,
to Ensure- and I just the two
it's just consume me not because of the food just because everything
and I had cried like that- you're since the first week with my brother s after when passed away
I kind of stifled it, but it happened for a minute, but it was like it was so dramatic and so gutter,
so out of nowhere. Thou. Almost
the bite. My green Chile enchilada, which I did not want to do
but it was. It was heavy man it up a huge yeah he's a good guy too, to be there for that, but we
We talked and hung out a bed. We and I hate and then,
appear and checked into this
isn't it so sweet is beautiful will place up in the in the foothills of Taos? Not not.
The scariest cyber on the other side. You know it was great, I'm just trying to clear my head and, I think,
Lynn, young. I don't believe this stuff, for why not has taken all kinds of pictures.
So excited to be up and out and alone on the usual terrified.
Eaten by animals are falling into a ditch and, having do you know,
cut. My my own arm off with with her with a shoe. You know you, I just
but I just yet our Domini fear these glass couple days just one up, and I just did it and I thought about her thought about me. I thought about the future. I thought about you're what I
he'd do for myself what I need to do for other people. I need to do for my country. What's going on
But just the sadness, the sadness, the grief was,
was there, but it was like part of the frequency. It's part of the big continuity as part of the visa fee, the momentum of humanity, the grief. It's weird, though, what I do not feel feelings
whether to listen to music or just sit around and think about all the horrible should have done in my life. There's there's. That seems to be might my
body my brains, way of dealing with her
in my brain, it's like you can
Have those and be sad or you can just yeah- maybe beat the shit out of yourselves for things you did before? How would that be for a while that that could go on you for
ad infinitum pal yeah, you
yeah? You ve changed your you
Yahoo yard, but like let's go over the books. Mckenna just feel the grief our aye aye, but
You let me know when you want to crack these bad boys like
I've made my Menzies come on. Come on with
when the upper air, but did
breathing and I saw the views, and I took the pictures and it's been just great. It really has I'm reading a book on meditation. Why read the first few pages I brought a guitar, I haven't played it yet, but you know no pressure, I'm alright!
I stopped in at Arroyo Psychotherapy. I think it's will little to shine
The ski area bought some parts.
But some ceramics from my house
I might have to be moving in a hurry. Who knows right factor
I was in one of the pottery stores and the guy said: yeah there's a whole family have not
he's just came in here and for uniform? Unlike what? What are you talking about he's liked? What
you're wearing some kind of uniform. I think it was of white supremacist uniform Make, are you sure
it just came in, like you don't like nothing was happening. Yeah now take thinking, get the fuck out of my store white supremacist and, like a family he's like yeah, that's fucking, nuts he's like these. Might
he'll be out there look around I'm looking it there's nobody in this town, this twelve people, some tourists tacos across,
ST people wandering around masks? Will tourists thousand five ten stores in taco place in its up in the mountains, my wouldn't fuck em white supremacist doing full uniformed a family? They were
still there for some reason I had to ask might well when they were
did they were their masks like yeah. They they owe more them
ask them, they were there actually are very nice and my that's how it's going to happen. That's what it's gonna be like you
he's going to know you're, not going to say anything, you're going to be scared and they're going to be very nice and follow the rules and do you know we have to follow their rules. Jesus Christ
and by the way the air is actually a clear here and it rains appear in town every day can of cleans d, the poet of the of the big frequency, I'm ok, you guys, okay, so Billy crude up
not cried up. He, of course you know him from almost famous it's our big reunion. I haven't Ivan
I spent any time with Russell Sense since, since my equipment fuckin shocked him back in the day,
so here you know from that movie, almost famous watchmen. His many shows on Broadway the morning show which is nominated for
outstanding, supporting actor Emmy this year.
That's happening, that's. Why he's on the show? Also, I my eye
I want to tell you that there he hid easel punch
you ve been up all night knees. I think he seemed pre calf unaided,
and and we got to talk and then we got to some serious talking. So
again is nominated for playing Corey Alison on their morning show in the category of outstanding, supporting actor and drama series.
You can watch all if she's in one of the morning show an apple tv plus and
This is me and Billy crude up coming up.
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While I see a man than awhile has that's. Why?
It has been a while that scottish true Wendy
When did we make that movie? Billy is hardly remember. I know somebody some people seem to suggest is twenty years on, that's right there
again over three that I was invited to a twenty year. You are, you are invited you just one available man. You got this thing on and keep us
where is not dead. It is not true. I could come in.
Recaptured. My amazing two minutes.
On green. I have
his memory. I don't love it's invented in or not, but of watching. You know I do that fight from inside the Boston, painful gaming parts of that extra.
He D made us doing like ten times. I know I remember Noah's voice getting shot to and it was right for like a week and have my
he made us to eat. There were several versions of word. Noah comes out. He brought every time. I think he was on the bus telling
no, I did do shit. Fuck me up so like
in time he came out, broke a guitar,
The time he showed his ass ever they showed his ass. Far I'd forgotten about that. Has the memory
it's crazy. Yet I was that was fun those a long time ago, and everybody was so deep in it. I remember that I mean I come on for one day and you guys are acting
a real band yeah. It felt it was totally immersive experience a day that, from the second we we all said yes, Cameron had us in Dan Camp
was the the mine Meld was like instituted immediately where we had wanted to make sure that all of us not well for me in particular, because not a ban guide, the other three work that we are all part of the same thing in it
fuck it up, they d, all all the other guys had been in bans, yeah Johnson, to mere mark.
When I know him, I can read house painters and are a drummer jumped words the session drummer. For him
regional and then Jane Riley? You know, I don't know if you ever had a formal banned, but he played the guitar. You no good saying here
he was, though he was actually the weirdest to me.
All yeah and their character or the person.
I couldn't tell you nigh United, projected a lot into it. You know I I felt distinctly like he was a shutting me out and I thought
or maybe I'm one of those negative people that Scientologists you're afraid of shy. I thought that might be it in. I am personally I like it very much we get along perfectly well and the antagonistic relationship that developed was really enjoy
Well, the black, but it wasn't real now and oh no, not at all. I I can't do anything for real. It's all! It's all fake man. It's like!
I don't know how to play. Guitar I mean this. As you can see, this is real
this the whole acting part of it. You know some people they get
I use the word. Immersive, ah, yes, for me, that's all about the content. The story you,
immersed in the story telling of it not actually personally immersed in the experience of its intense there are in residual effect,
Did you check my body long enough? It fires the chemicals exposed to fire in them
you'll emotionally on over the next day. A real effect of you know like going through some of the dramatic art supplying character. Some of the connections you know without
sure thing. So you don't really now I can t go back to Jason, like I think that his reaction to me was appropriate for the character at thy. Everybody handled me
for my little part there, which is usually us, get the fuck out of our way. Why that
Just the I was a promoter and I'm in the band is not really the power the promoter, but but me
Mark Marin with justice insecurity it who were there for a day's work and
wandering around saying I to people in
are you satisfied for me was that I had a shoot liking. I felt like part of the crew,
true there for a while part of the team, yeah yeah Cameron, even eight with me and my wife at the time
and then like when I had a chaste, the Van the bus in the cart
everybody left. It was just me and
secondary crew. Bt. Just me
right up and down that ramp by myself in the mid.
Put. The fuck night in this is show business.
It happened every by now we were there in Spirit man.
I know how it works now answer. I am off camera gimme, the fuck out of here and backed by herself. Why would anyone stay? I decided to suck suck up that debt, but actually that openness is a pet peep of moment, sometimes producers day, there's a bait and switch where
no tell you you're not needed, and then the next they show up and the actors like. So we don't do off camera and
Why didn't you fuckin talking about, but either there is this? What this would have
there is this is it this would have been, is a scenario where I would say we're on the box. The windows were closed. Yeah I mean if mark needs me on the bus,
That's how I connect man. You d know that all that emotion is still in their eyes right away again, you can. I get. You clearly be able to send my seething
oceans inside the bus, but that, but that's interesting that well I mean I know that's the thing on all do I will always do off camera. To I mean I guess sometimes you know not not that I do a lot of acting, but I do more now, but I you know it. It seems like the right thing to do in less. You know it's really nothing. It almost always seems like the right thing to do not the least at which we,
as a whole. I feel, like the whole Paden switch of doing a movie or player tv show. Whatever is you know?
convincing the audience that everything is happening for the first time when is highly choreographed, and
You ve collaborated on the narrative together and you're, just simply executing it s, craftspeople, an average related to that way,
I want to be in on it, so I to influence your performance. I want you to influence my performance of you
so you don't need me for off camera like out of the four. I don't I don't know what I'm doing here right right. Why me do I
I was talking to Rob Reiner James Brooks. I don't know who about Jack Nicholson on the set of a few good men, young Seymour he's in that witness box right, and he goes on
even when he was off camera. He did it all the way right all the way and I go
I think it was Ryan or cuz. I think Reiner directed it's a white. Why do you why you do it? Why do you keep doing it all the way because cuz I cuz? I love to ask me. I couldn't agree more, it's it's! It's such a privilege and when it and when you're firing, when you're like I'm in that scene, obviously became iconic for him to.
So it must have been incredibly fine to play, but when you're firing with people there's no greater joint, most most actors flag to get any work it
All you know much less something they enjoy much less? Something that they feel is important to be a part of me night. All those things are
there's so many layers tat this profession that you know I'm sure the people that you speak too are all occupying a certain echelon that, like those those words, are long gone
but for me you know I went to acting school with you, no eighteen, twenty people,
who were really good young actors and the air?
many of them now don't work at all, and so many of the ones that do work working there.
Satisfying. There are, you know handful they get good opportunities are not given.
They exclude them and move on and have greater. You know, but the abundance of good fortune that I've had on is absolutely apparent to me at every stage, and you have gratitude and
The stories of gratitude yeah, I don't know- I don't know- I don't know how people do it. I don't know how you guys do it, because you,
now how you go on doing it without getting a break.
For without getting opportunities, because you you're showing up your your auditioning to do somebody else's bidding and you're, hoping that their bidding is good at least well written to some,
agree an end. If it isn't, you gotta sucked, add up and make the best of it, and, and sometimes it's your ear,
the one thing I noticed about acting when I start to do more, for the tv show MIKE with tv acting, you know you, you do a thing and its right to
seconds you get out, you know, you're on cameras like hey, wait, I cut. Let's turn the cameras around. In fact, what the fuck is that
I was a moment where I was like this fuckin ridiculous
I'm just sitting around watching the sopranos on my
own for four hours, but but have grown to be all the more grateful, but none, but
guess what I'm leading towards is that it sounds to me that year that Europe, yours you're processes, not all immersive to the point where you're going to-
convince yourself that you ve become a character, and I imagine that doing theatre a kind of Knox Thea. The kind of pragmatic working element that this sort of, like I'm a working actor guy like getting theatre, really is what must define what feels good about acting well, I I have had that experience. It's true and it was.
Was. The philosophy was instilled in me before that, and the reason for that gratitude is in no small part because of the abundance of opportunity.
I urge you in my career actually felt bad about. I felt bad about telling someone might fears about. Like the great job said I was getting and like you, I was six months out of school and I was
playing one of the leads in a calm stopper play on Broadway directed by Trevor Dine at Lincoln Centre and the like. I was originating the american part of it. Nobody gets to fucking. Do that. I would have wanted to hide my head in the sand with me, not to mention the fact that I was shitting myself in in everybody's company trying to accomplish that, but the we were taught about it and the reason I went to graduate school originally. You know I thought I might. I teach because I didn't know
Who is a professional actor? I get there, then the great thing about actors is that, like you, can tell your friends about this amazing opportunity and because directors, you know they're not gonna, be bitter or resentful a view, which is one of the great things about that community here. Well, I have to say I do have some anomalous experiences, because me and my friends are incredibly supported with each other, and I think this goes back to your point.
Data, but I also think it has to do with New York. So many, the actors that I came up with awe, SAM Rockwell, Josh, Hamilton, Ethan, HAWK and then jolt elephant. They giant comic
how can these guys from school? We all are still intact and support
about each other. We actually went through that version at each of us at different,
with one another. Where you know we we went just talk about. How should it was that some people had explain these opportunities?
and how to build. They were that other with others of us we're having other opportunities and ate. Like really would it. It is different in LOS Angeles right why they had also sounds like that's a handful of guys and seems like the the bitter nasty ones, probably just more friends with grief,
he's gotta, be a few good, only put up with them for so long and me we surely heard over the years, possibly not just like it just filtered out that way. Well, it did it. It is a pretty broad grouping, no one,
Think of it now like how many there's gotta be a good twenty people that I'm still in touch with him. Noise
What about you know? That's great! No! Ninety eight, you know- maybe I'm just thinking comics or maybe I'm just thinking about me. I didn't you ever think of comic sack is but not of course, you're thinking about actors and every time somebody gets a part that I really wanted on. Turning down the volume on envy. You now is
really difficult and over? What was the one time that you can remember where that was really
likewise it somebody you mean like today I mean this shit has all the time. I d like to your point before about the never
Ending series of potential like crevasses
You're gonna fall into it starts with. Can you get the audition next? Ok, if you get there
addition. Are you going to nail it in the audition? Are even gonna nail, the call back are you? Are you ok,
the meeting with the director. All those like our replete with things that you do not like Europe, oh no, I still audition. I still audition, ok
Ok, but I mean you do walk in there, not like who's this guy that some performer like this to happen. That's great men and worthwhile. You don't care for the theatre go fuck yourself, but but been after you get the part. Then there is the question of exit. Shooting are right as I've been fired from a job too much you executed,
that's a question whether or not you're in the film, then, if you're in the room, it's a question of whether or not the critics liked it. Then, if the critics like it's a question whether anybody goes and sees it, I mean every one of those things that I can play with you,
and some self consciousness right, but a lot of them are out your control. I met a aren't getting to the point where you recognise that is really hard, because you want to have unless you're somebody who can right. I can't I'm completely interpretive artist and need somebody
give me material, they need to tell me what the story is going to be the need to give you some perspective on how I can help them tell the story before I have any kind of creative agents here and say like Britain, so for people like me who are waiting for people that they respect the come to them, it can sometimes be along.
Frustrating wait soldier saying that it's out of your control is one thing but being able to internalize.
In a way that you're not a marvel to mobilise heartbroken yeah. That's it.
That's where the community of fact confederates comes in handy sure. You know
we all lean on each other at different times Nguyen and after a certain point that group of actors
all been cut out the things you ve
I'm great things. It were never seen. You
but you ve all made mistakes and things that you took the eye out there. So so you have with a
It comes a certain amount of of humility that that must aid in the ability to go, I plug it. They have had to work out no question about that. In fact, I think that, as we get older and discover that would we know we know and have no less and less. The sense of humour seems to be on rising to the to the top in our attitude has to readjust fucking implode, yeah, you don't, let's, let's get by
back to that the process of like cuz. I don't talk to that. You try to talk to actors about you, how they do it, how they let you know what they're cracked is R. I used to do it a lot when I was starting to act more, so I could get free acting lessons, but you know what it what it comes down to is like what is the most effective way that these individuals, on top of their natural talent to do it, are able to pretend to be somebody else, so you had a,
engage that, but it seems like your kind of practical about it, but there's two different things: you're, tired matter. I was thinking about one or two like I am for the collective enterprise to create a cathartic event for people,
right. That's what ultimately you're doing you're having somebody pay thirteen dollars the same
play when you're doing comedy show I'm going to charge you twenty bucks, and I hope this ten minutes gives you a giggle or charge you for tea, and I hope you laugh your ass off. You know like
it's the same thing for our going to charge you seventy five and thank you for subscribing this season. We hope you enjoy the play
at the hearing AIDS there's down version too, we ve got the theatre alive for you so enjoy your neck. I've been in.
And plenty of those productions and by the way, giving people good nap?
and I realize you're out at that- is sometimes ice lobby nap. Yes, sometimes we need map at what the eye
so that cathartic enterprises are not bad. Is it that's a comprehensible journey to me?
You know like I like being in a group of people, doing it there's the other version of it, which is some people are really really good and the event is watching. The peacock event is watching somebody display these skills and a radical way that I like tat you out of yourself and right. You know the debts that happens
athletics. I'm sure there are people in a comedy as well who just have an explosive kind of get that here.
Sometimes even, but that doesn't preclude the ensemble element, get you're, just the examples in support of the peacock and he got away with that fucking weirdness.
Exactly and then and that's all the time I mean the end, and people sometimes through have been a part of the ensemble before become the peacock.
For a moment. You gonna navigate tat moment, and I mean all of us have been through it, but for the audience I was thinking you know like. Sometimes I just a pay to go, see: mainstream movie whatever you do not know what the movie
you of course that that somebody who can fuckin work, so you want to see the work and arm
usually it's about the story. Whether or not the story works, wet weather, not that's what I want to do to cure
my evening, and that is the workmen part of it that I was taught in school, which is you take your time going over the text collaborating with the director of the other actor you
become very fastidious about how you understand your role in creating this event, and then you try to do that. You try to technically unfortunate that in a way that makes it seem like a tab right can't when you go when you watch row St Thou, can you see the work? I cannot work
It's really I mean it's upsetting. You know, as somebody who has spent a lot of time and money trying to figure figure it out. It is its disappointing and humiliating, but it is at its thrilling disease.
Somebody in the same way. You see Jordan, nor anybody you as a rare kind of gas,
I don't know how he makes his body move like that. You know in a processing information. Some people just suggested its natural time she's, both to because she went to school as well and is highly trained in theatre, end and chicken saying it. This is an end with her, but she can also collaborate. You know
people in and now in the way that I'm familiar with, but she doesn't on different. Have you worked with her now? Why not nobody's ass,
Once again, I haven't seen him. Have you been in movies together? Were you just didn't have seen together and I don't think so not enough. I'm not gonna. Take that personally, the on. I just showed my son defend in your life. You remember that
breaks moving Chirrup sure, I'm a sucker for Alber Brooks and certainly, as you know like in my family, he was. He was somebody that we all kind of I enjoyed collectively so that I was thrilled how much he he enjoyed our books as well by watching male streets capability,
even a comedy that you know it is kind of a heightened fun, comedy Asia. It's it's it's
it's very hard to do it very really you it wasn't like was amazing, my recollection of senior in that movies like she must be doing him a favour. They must be friends at what the fuck. You see this. My bet you I mean I bet, but she loves doing it. I mean you know. For the first time she didn't have to
be tormented by like the death of a child's right to hold your kid. He sixteen sixteen. While that's kind of my might buddies gotta, sixteen a fifteen year old sounds can be rough yeah. I don't know how it was for you, but when I was fifteen, I grew up on. You
Mexico, so we could drive by then, but yeah you are driving fourteen in nine months ago, earnest firm it right. I started writing.
I too am in an angry, my large part, but yeah more diagram,
This was in Dallas right, I'd, New Mexico. I guess it's the same. There is plenty of room where they can drive.
There were seven make an Irish, it there's a hardship licence and I think it was mostly for families, families and rural communities
who at somebody was working the need to drive, because the school or something and down my parents were divorced
at that point in my mom was working, and so my brother turned fifteen
and God is a hardship. Licensing was driving us around and so
You know I was here not younger than I am, and one day he decides to teach me- and I was it sticks ship
almost station wagon knife
I just remember viscerally learning how to deal with the clutch
on the other by our history. That was the only thing like when I was a kid. It was like that
you wanted to like any idiot could drive an automatic so like when I got the opportunity,
to learn. I learned on a standard number. You happy Ivan driven one in fucking years. I know that I know how the yeah I'd die,
There was a pickup truck that my dad had ones
summer, ah with the three on the tree,
yeah. I know that
harder. That's up, blocker to drive, I mean you, you feel like you ve done something if you ve made it through a day on that one right there.
Gary and the kind of luxury and really loose clutch. You know, like you know, when the gears kicking it relay uniquity like three feet: arrive: yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So what your dad
a pickup truck I happened out here, is that he was a business man. He was sound. He tried to do a lot it
different things and arm? But you know most consistent
Ah, he he was
lucky and launch shark, and I think this, this despicable was probably payment. Ah, Madame
then my brother and I will give a new stir. I drive the obviously wasn't a high level bookie based on the pickup truck. He always tried to like
find his way back into a normal way of doing business by buying products that were in the market place that had failed in the marketplace he'd by the Copy
right and then he would try to re market them like there was these arm,
umbrella. Hats. I don't know if you
member and, like the late seventies, early eighties. I then picture um, yeah and arms so that there is
They came out with the rainbows on them or whatever they ve been really work, because why? Why would anybody do that? But my dad thought I know it I'll do. I know Lou Brok, whose it was a baseball player
Saint Louis, I believe and down he was like I'm gonna, get Leubronn to endorse these and we're going sell the broccoli
dollar and sure enough
we had. You know, I know two thousand of these things in the basement, so he was always trying to. He was an entrepreneur, but- and here you know, you wanted his pet rock- that's when he that's what,
no, of course right right. If I mean
the pie. Mom is the one who is working, keeping everything together
working in advertising eggs, you take care of three kids in their teens boys, three boys so she's the euro in the story. So what
when when he was a bookie, was his own manner was he work inferred, someone else yeah, I suspect there was someone else involved there mark to your question.
And through the
your dad's got the muscle girl. He didn't work with a man named Mister O. Who was six foot
or former box, ok, so that was his guy. He had who had a bullet? Yes, and I mean he carried a fire army. Now at all, it was very charming. Like he's a bit, you is a really charming. Guy men seemed perfectly normal when there is like
No a riot shaka next to his bed. One day he was, I honour. Less just don't touch it began. Is fine,
an enemy me nervous to honour, but the you know it's a you got. You have just your suffered to arrive.
If you ever go out, shooting on none not with
I don't think I ever that I was in. I was in now the boy scouts and I went to a camp,
A wine camped on summer time zones where you know
you do rivalry and stop that's twenty two's extent, my exactly
where'd you rifle Deal on New Mexico. Why? I want you
camp as well, where we learned had allowed shot, gun shells and no shoot Skeet, and we did some twenty two staff and then my dad
guns around my friend there was a lot of guns around your. I ended up, shootin guns here and there
they never owned one recently,
thinking. Maybe I should get one, but then there's always a possibility.
That I you might have a bad day.
Seemed like a good idea to any either have decided on a back. I guess that I hope will confident enough in my ability to protect myself.
With the guy, I'm yeah. You know when I look at things statistically back to my rationalization agenda here. It doesnt seem statistically in your best enter.
Ass, to have one around for your own safety.
No! That's for fucking sure I read this article about we're, not that I'm depressive but yeah. You have your moments right player. In England, the the suicide rate went down dramatically when they change the time
of natural gas- that was available in the ovens to a less toxic type of gas there, like that, that the number of people that just didn't follow through because it didn't work.
Out, I mean it was you. I want you to a glittering. Some awful macabre, comic moments where some in a person in a desperate what the fuck is wrong with this gas. Exactly but then, then
it will through that and the next day they feel. Ok, that's the point is that if you don't,
have the gun. In that moment, your pride gonna, didn't I sleep and be all right. It's a smart! It's smart move to put his many impediments and in the way of
those kind of self.
Yeah sure way, how will do when the folks split up there?
We were living in northern long island next day. They were divorced when I was six,
ah so that we can make its every four.
And then they try to make it work again and
That's when we moved to Dallas is my dad at the business opportunities, but as you can hear from it
previous stories. Those businesses do not need more security and the predictability. So my mom there's a smart thing and let him
Note that on its own and with his umbrella hats, yet with his umbrella hats, precisely which did not fit in his new singles apart, and I can assure you tat- he had you use a category. Would storage space is everywhere, like you know, for each heading
hey need to run out to up Plano for an afternoon
Oh, I was gonna get Jakarta that the storage space I believe, I've I covered a future,
that then, of course you know, I did just gonna pick out shit. We go to the flea market figure this out there,
so he was like. I just use just like an old like not even a good hustler, really yet exactly he was a marginal hustler,
there's a flea market involved here at TED, her miss and not, if that's what you're Ayman, if your aim in there, we want you to come in and then come out happy because you know you know what you're going to make a killing omair drier. Anyway, if you don't sell it, sorry, I'm Melick in all matters, but I do up a big fat affection for her
flea markets in and people on the fringes. I think, for that reason yeah I mean it. You know. If it's part of your childhood, I mean how you're not going to like there's moments where I used to love to go to the flea market, but my dad
Like there's part of my childhood, where you know he what did he do know my dad sell at the flea market, but but I used to go to the flea market all the time cuz I was
fascinated with it. All. I remember, as there was a doctor in town
who my father knew, who is jewish we're jewish? This guy was jewish and east.
Sell nazi paraphernalia at the free market, and I could never quite guy connected browser, found it kind of fascinating
Well, I mean immediately, I jumped to the notion that, like if you can make a few bucks off these fuckers, that's it
that's a thorn back in the old days. It was the old days and it will examine stuff. It was a real like you is it wasn't kind of new there. Now it's not like
They were there they're, making the stuff new
for the new idea integration, while I'm you may not at you made of a may, not have thought through thoroughly who he was selling to like them. I really want to collect this kind. They stop that strategy,
but my daddy's there like there was a period there were he he was into showing two dogs.
So there's part of my life that there is theirs dog shows involve so I have sort of a soft spot for, but I I don't go to them best in shows
not for me to go yet not that's exactly what it's like so
you're moving around, so you like, where did you end up like going to high school Dallas? Well, I went to alight
the different schools. You know India,
I said the time there was
ah passing, and so
Ah I was at a.
Elementary School in one area, and then I went to a middle school. We were bus to a middle school for seventh and eighth grade and I went die.
School for one year on Hillcrest high school and then we moved down to South Florida
Oh, my God is my mom got remarried and we went. I wasn't guy and we went to everyone to Saint Thomas Aquinas High School and it was a catholic school arm. Ah, but I had an excellent
time there. I really did. I felt a bit there, most notable for their athletics programme and down
Ah, like Michael Urban, went there, he was there when I was there and down Brian pick alone
Brian and backers ever ah,
they all went there. They all went there and I was I was not. I mean, as you might be able to tell by my size, us still
actually, but arm. I tried to do soccer a rifle. Ok, I wasn't fast enough. I, in fact I love playing soccer when I was younger, but when I look at my fur freshman year Hillcrest they tried out for the team and I just started to grow. I was always the shortest kid in class and Mean Richard Wingfield. We would complete
for shorter scared just about every year, but now that guy, I know it is up to these great, actually
he's a lawyer in Dallas and does really well that's not good at yet having better headaches.
I think you want, but these lawyer in Dallas package is a bigger now, just like me
weighted average eyes, but I just started to grow and became meanwhile the uncoordinated and was so slow that they call me flash and that's what I thought. Ok, I'm done with this shit random. I wrestled but the one year I was not great at wrestling. I was kind of you know. I was there for the exercise and I did like the sport but
one year I didn't Russell. We want state on what gives it gives you some idea of my ability and the ability of getting Dragon Downer diagnosed romania- and I wasn't there- are your folks still around my dad's, not known
as the way in two thousand five use. Sixty three
but my mom ah is around and like shit, she's
she's, really the genesis of how I got into acting. She loved taken us to the theater and going abroad when stuff grown up so really bad.
So I just wait you're in Florida,
we're on long island. My dad was selling yarn yarn yarn COS.
It was from a small town in North Carolina that had a yarn mill, and so he was
selling. That yarn here in the city out like this,
We worked out an angle with the yarn mill where he was before the angling, so what happened was when they came up to?
New York. I mean this I'm kind of putting this together. I don't know if this is true or not, but becomes up to New York to sell
no legitimate business. You know like it established vice president remarking their God. You know I got a job, they are selling the yard
here in the city. He was worries, I got our maps district and then he
he was in the garment dressed. This got introduced this a people the that he found them more colorful than the fabric he was selling, and I thank you
he was a by their life, you know what I mean.
Ah whistler. Why are we had a mob funeral?
as in the other. There there's lot lot on there, but she loved the arts love the earlier
so, even after we moved that two dollars in Miami philosophy is still bring us back to New York. This he plays and down. You know something phenomenal produce,
genes- and she was also like one of my primary support. Ah engines when I was younger about performing, did you? When did you first start doing the performance? I would say
I don't know if you remember my first grade interpretation.
Of Uncle SAM during the fourth of July. Festivities knives
about it. I read down with the many critical pieces on that: the ATLAS small until next big thing, I think it was called. That's that's that's when the what what I discovered was my way. You know a fitting in what they're going to these different schools was being the class clown. So I don't have any problem. Humiliating myself in front of people, which is one of the crucial
things about being an actor its nose. You know, there's not dignity in the act of doing it. It's my last December
I said in my view it is no dignity.
Dignity evaluate getting over embarrassment at anything of what its why you say that, because that is what people end up doing. You know there's not a specific class about it, but nearly everybody at some point or another makes themselves as vulnerable as possible. Often it's in the form of
like being completely nude, everybody has to get completely new at some point in Acme's roused up their their truth, unites, exhausting our gesture or that the person that cries too much at all
I'm like no matter whether he now but it wasn't me, then you were the new guy hours it yet the new guy actor. I wasn't nude until my fur
stop paying job in the city nor yet
usually works. I was new for two hundred twelve dollars a week.
And I'll get welcome could take it out. Super excited about it until maybe two weeks into it when I'm standing backstage in a pretty cold theatre
making what the fuck am. I doing right now, which gig with this it was it was. It was a kind of esoteric thank piece on January's and charming. Caps on
and lay on the Tokyo? That was worth it right. Those worth it acts illusory. Wasn't I'll! Tell you why? Ok, this a great Britain transition, I mean see this one common, but it was at the vineyard, theater and then
the theatre on Union square effect can cast a theatre. They hired me a couple years ago to do a solo performance of this guy David Calles play. I was a one man show and I saw played a bunch of different characters. It was now fifteen minutes long, but Jan Andersson and one for producing foreigners came and saw that and when they saw that she was like. I want you to be a part of the morning
We just have to figure out what capacity so may do not turn into a dollar java week. That has brought me. Do you know one of my paper rules that I've had the same theatre, the same view
I did in the same theatre yeah. There is pretty it s pretty cool, but gamble
here, your mom like so you started for you
we're always doing stuff on stage throughout junior high? There wasn't enacting programme it at Saint Thomas, as you know, the most of their money and
to the athletic line arm in arm. But when I was there, I went to you and see Chapel hill and then and when are they sound? I love chapel old man. That's a good!
You work there before yeah yeah, it's it's really great out, but ah I started out just like a business major cause. I don't know
suppose that's what you're supposed to do at school and then with a with it. Such an impressive father has a little models of what's possible. No can do- and I haven't thought about this in a while, but his mom passed away the day that I grab.
Waded from high school and he had always bowed to her that cause. He didn't finish the job,
He had like nine hours left or something you know like you to take three four classes told her. He was gonna finish sheep passed away. When I graduated
and he went back this summer school in Dallas, so he could graduating get his degree just before I started there. So
I can only- and he was very proud that he was a stranger who stood a backpack, that he gave me that I beg you
You know when I was there yet there were there is there was some charter by? Maybe that's why I got into businesses that doesn't it. That was my first majors. I thought with some of us needs to know why you're here he got it.
You did he graduated? Yes, oh you thought like it. I'm just getting like you know, heating, quite master it, but I'm gonna be egg. I let's give at least this generation is second go, but you know my first best where it was clear that I was not going to succeed well
as a business major side just started, taking as many different kinds of classes is. I couldn't I took this one class called oral interpretation prose and poetry that was taught by Paul Ferguson
ah, and he became like an immediate mentor to me, and I knew that these were my people, like they didn't know what this, what it was that we were doing with this art form. Nobody was going to really pay to see this. We did a production of James Joyce's, short story clay. I think it was called that you know that it's not up
not a place. He had spent half your time figuring out how to make it a plague, and then you used in the narration as a part of your life first person speaking it's weird. Stop you
but without allows you to do. Is they think creatively about what kind of thing you're engaging in this?
I just about like all. Let me I've been dying to play any add by the way I'm dying
planning and I'm not settle for Daddy WAR Box it, but you know I made aids, and so I could be you know a good student there, while taking these performance classes, and I became a communications major because I thought
well who's going to go into acting, and I can use the communication major as my way into the workplace ere I pretty soon. I had taken all the former classes in there.
And I started going to the drama department in classes there and then the drama teachers, their Susanna Rhine, argued equipment,
They like convinced me that I could take some of the major classes there. So by the time I had finished, I'd taken every performance class at chapel they offer many were doing. Productions is wiser and productions to yet. I think that I let's hear
did your good man, Charlie Brown, I did
burn this. I did now allows its for Turkey, which I would lay
I do and I played Arturo in that production. I'll have you know,
but I would later do it without Albert GINO playing Arturo, we off Broadway, sir. It was a nice bolster circle. Multiple new did theatre without patina. I did that cask and I take it steeply, semi Charles
burning, ah John Good men Randall
how'd you mighty. When
raising yeah, I'm forgetting people sterling brow.
Ah ah Johnny, that to be
it's unbelievable cast while we're an absolute ball doing and unforgiving like three hundred people were in it and it, but it was directed by this guy Simum Bernie. We ran this theatre company in London. That did some of the most incredible productions have ever seen. They called the after the caprice, therefore complicity now or whatever, but so to get to work with him and to see somebody with that kind of mastery of the craft was pretty. It was going here because I think Patino can still do it when he wants to keep the he works. His ass all tat you demonstrate up, I mean he works.
Is ass off and he is invested in it. You know, like I can't see ever for everybody, but everyone
watching player like that when he did Kevorkian in that HBO move no yeah holy fuck and because
like there was a while there were you just or who, by like, when began rigour at a certain point. Nobody is giving in direction. You know they're saying that's how you like to do it short right. I'm deserve their nervous. Why, then,
yeah, of course I mean listen, if you do dog they afternoon and godfather part too in the same year, which I think he did on those two different roles that are so brilliantly executed, you know pocket. That's that Newt! That's me
As you know more than you share, ok, you going to do it, everyone, whatever you want for the resolution, but I don't think he is ever lacked in a continued commitment to working. It is odd to see that generation now becoming these old men and who kind of can still not do it. Yeah, ok with
let's go. Let's go back to three you finish Chapel held, then you go to Tisch in that's where you really lock in that our work yeah exactly, and it is a professional actor training programme that focuses you on
essentially taken the shock on approach like we're gonna teachers, many different skills. So when you enter the
workplace, whatever your offered, whether its voice over is whether its commercials weathered the
it are film fell whenever you're going to be moderately prepared to get into
and wrong it. So you know it is also in New York City, so casting directors and agents would come and see some of the productions that you're going on there, not not just because they are looking for town, but because some of the production
Is that why you was doing Julia was doing and he always doing right, I'm like big, they were doing some of Tony first
actions ass, american, perestroika on Micro, still bark do angels
America Juilliard before was out the real end that yeah I saw. You know that there was a lot of opportunity for actors in those programmes because of our proximity to being in New York. Then you also get to see.
Actors who you were there with as third your students going to the world,
you get to see them manage
their careers. So you kind of alpha an experience of being.
In the workplace and studying at the same time now, but do so because you really like more than almost anybody. I've talked to a theatre guy, I mean you you're, a theatre actor. Really.
For the most part. I mean that's what you do a when everyone here. If anyone ever says, I would have been a Billy crawled up. It's actually probably doing a play right. Well, that's almost always are almost
always the case as a choice you make yeah. I it's you know. I don't know you gonna go you gotta word. You feel right. You know where you feel I dont have wild ambition
in terms of like collecting money and things you know,
they can make a living. I do I listen I'll. Tell you what,
you want to know how I made a living. There are some things money can't buy for everything else. There's mastercard
I have heard them. Let me tell you that that gave me my agency to do as many places I wanted to for a while, because it was a guarantee
some! You know like WWW. How did you do that like a dirty thirteen years and so like? I can you, but I mean really is again out of the things to be embarrassed about. It was more a fine to me, but obviously I get that ball rolling,
as long as I could that's like, but that's like like that, you know. That's a lifetime's work, the money
but I think it's interesting that you really cause like going into this interview. There is this idea that, like I tell you made a cause, I'd read that you made the bread doing that the commercial, and so you can choose what you wanted to do.
For some reason, I automatically thought will wise anymore movies and because you chose theatre, why do
I mean I was always my plan to do as much of everything as I could and the fact the writer is. I wasn't getting great parks and movies at a certain point. I was getting great parts on stage and I went to where the great parts were because that again like, why would I refer?
is a great part. I mean you know the vineyard theatre, where I was nude first, where I did Harry Clark on my first thought. At reading this peace was no cheese. Is that so much
work. Why would anybody ever do that? That's exhausted and then in the middle of the night I wake up from many people, get the opportunity to open a one person show in New York, get off your fuckin ass and get to the theatre. You know like that. Yeah is typically my my response of the kinds of things that I got to do. Working with Martin
Donna actually Michael Stool Borg, was in their production with the Jackal Bloom in Chicago I've arnica? We did about like all about the pillow man, all right doing. Coasted utopia, which was a Tom stopper, play that you know with the three part, epic about russian philosophers at the turn of the nineteenth century. Something and it was spectacular at Lincoln Centre EM, you would come see it. You would see that
first part on Tuesday. The second part Wednesday, the third part Thursday, or you could come, see them all on Saturday.
I started a leaden, then these marathons and every one of those marathons was sold out. So I was getting opportunities.
Like that, I'm gonna Tony! For that right, I did want to tell you I should get it
bring it. I should, above all like to show you d say, should carry weight. I believe you know just as evidence
look around like that I'd give authority for but their subway just the experience of
to me, that's the kind of life I wanted to leave. So you know if I was getting those kinds of opportunities in film to work with. You know the the caliber of people that I wanted to work with. It's very likely I would have been doing more salt, but you know that. But what do you think that was about white? Why don't you think that happen to me? It seems like you were like
I mean it seems like you, you can definitely carry a movie while things come and go. You know like in you get opportunities, hurt somebody like me gotta
what opportunities early on based upon potential and selling out to you that you that first Urien that movie sleepers yeah man that, like that movie so fuckin heavy man, yeah, reverse movie? That was the first one that came out. I did it independent film before that called grind.
Adrian showing Poll Shelly Paul, shows the Amanda P arm, and then I had a small Pardner Woody Allen Movie
everyone says I love you, but yet I was. I was the first big when it came out and then I did die in funding the abbots part, O Connor, unlocking feeling
Jennifer calmly and then and then so I got opportunity Billina without limits about road runner, steep on aim
your great net, our thanks and still I still out when I jog. I still remember things you were told in that movie: that's killer, that's it! I was nigh guy guys heap refunding indelible image, whom I am in my memory, because my God love him and had the cover of sports illustrated that he was on on our countertop. When I was younger. Ah me, no, I must be five or six or something, but this haunting image of him was with me the whole time, and so when I saw his name out, it was within a robber town who wrote China town and was being shared, comrade Hall, ah Donald Sutherland and produced by Tom Cruise, and now all Wagner it. So you know
was punching above. I waited that point and if you don't deliver under those circumstances, your unlikely to get those opportunities again until you do deliverance something you know I'd it's just like from a financial point of view, if their, if their mostly interested it like even almost famous ah that that didn't do well at the box office when it came out,
so this deep reef contain movie, didn't do great now and most famous didn't do great, yeah and so you're, not that that's that's some portion of it on some portion of it is
I would say no to things because I was doing to play and people are like cheese that everyone.
Of Jesus son, yet there, but we couldn't get people to see it. It's like. Have you see the cast without its an unbelievably taking a really great cast, but we can get people to the theatre,
What's a heavy movie, I get it, there was any, is mine, it's at it beautifully unconventional.
And I love that about it- but but also to you- know like yeah
certain point if you keep saying no because you're doing a play, people did they get this offered you, I think, and I
and then also sixteen years
I had a son, so I wanted to be located in here in New York as much as possible, and you know I was before them that was before the commercials that was, it was in the middle
I had already had- I started- I think I I got that commercial probably ninety said
may I also like that. I was also the thing you have to deal with. As you know they do. The press was not too kind.
Do you around your relationships? We now? What is it
you say about that. I mean I I appreciate
trauma for their own click, click bait and far right. You know, go for it. I'm just not participate wrong, so there's there's not a whole lot to navigate there and who can say with the effect.
Of that, as you know, how is everybody now do you get along with her and the kid and ever listen? We all do the very best we can, but I try to listen one of the reasons I dont comment, but there's like three good reasons. First of all, there are other people involved and unless now talking about-
themselves, whether you know what the fuck am. I going to say armed with that israeli Hidell I've learned that the hard way yeah yeah- I remember doing
interview early on and and and I talk about my childhood and so the writer summed it up as like.
His traumatic childhood front. You know I got and my mom read that as one of the first pieces- and you know called make crying and I was like a mom shit- we gotta get. You know like some understanding of this tunnel, as this is not the other
This can be a tough approach to, but that's interesting does now. When you talk about it, the tone is different and the trauma is less
it is, it doesn't come off. Is try a traumatic because you put things in perspective.
When you're older. I guess that happens and you're successful. Well, that's it that one of the things that are, in addition to being protected by the people in my life that dont have a voice. When I decided to an interview, I was really protective early on of having any kind of public persona, because my whole jam was going to try to be a character actor. So right that you know shit about me, I'm not going to be able to be two different things in two different:
Who is it? Have you figured you should never. You should like at the end of the movie, go all that was Billy crude about it. No that shit. You know that wasn't gonna be my whole. I just wasn't like great at it at the beginning,
I was giving getting some kind of like good issue performances, but they were in lots of different kinds of things, so what they were, what the industry wants you to do is cultivated personality at that point and become a star so that they can you
as you know, for their own, the fairies enough. It was, but it's interesting because in I think at that time, you're, probably a little too attractive to be regular character, actor guide too much work done to earth
That was not my fault of mine. I thought it was going to be great foresight in this. These cheek bones- or this is cartilage- might know what I'm saying- and I can't know and trust me I was
it was. You know they had owned you're, no,
at baby. I've looked rings of so many different memories. Oh my god only should it now. I wish I was in the data in them the daddy, but no I was I had you know of a very autograph book, but that the word or a group of other grounds for the graphic, that's the woman
looking for mark we're home and so people. I was really aware early on how people wanted to cast me, and I would look at some of these parts and say I dont know how to play that guy, like you need somebody who can do a hero, and that I am I need. I need a different angle like I'm, really yeah that'd, that those are the things it
the ultimate their interesting to me, but that's the way you actually turned down leads because this guy, this guy comes out on top he's, he's star in what they here's the thing with heroes, most
when their written in sub par material is they dont have any character traits. So people can projection onto them. Right, don't have any.
Inner monologue, they don't
They have is the business of their action and the ability, the muscle, through the obstacles. With our great grace and a little bit
sexiness arm- and you know I just I didn't know I didn't I back. I didn't have that characterise you know like. I had different characters me that wasn't my idea. You didn't want to pretend they do just paying you to pretend Billy Nathan, I not you gotta. Do you gotta go to where you're good at I replaced the brief contain because he was he was fucked up and he was kind of
dick at times. You know that Nigeria is a thorn in the side of the machine,
like so he was a bit of an anti here on its the same with Russell in almost famous he's an eighty year or you know he makes in fact that decision
you never know. What his angle is interesting is that interesting is that the business, the theoretically the industry, one
to make you a leading guy, because you look like a leading guy round. You hold the screen like awaiting guy, but some you have some,
something inside you wasn't.
Don't do that yeah,
I didn't like what I mean. I can be a shitty one of those. Ah, you know it. If that's it, you guys are looking for, but and then
wait. A bunch of broken leg, mildly, shitty people and those were the ones are more. I was more interested in. You know like red characters and spotlight.
Sky in the morning show arm, and yes, someone needed a place that I've done or are the ones who are wrestling with internal as well as external conflict, but I, like the guy you just played it you're
you're wasting in their Jackie movie, but spot I were oh, you were the lawyer right as a lawyer, exact greater year in and year right rights right at a really fascinating. Sir,
For that I could love them yeah. That was a great movie and Tom Mccarthy.
Can I read it on the page I was like now. I just seems like a dick. I don't quite understandably goes. Let me tell the story of this guy and it turns out that
he had been negotiating all of these deals between the victims and the church in no small part, because he was abused,
as a child, and he knew the hall of the systems were going to be.
Ah obstacles in the way I've been getting anything so he was like set upon himself. Listen, I'm gonna, get you twenty grand and sit down with the Bishop and that's the best you can do anywhere and Tom was like so unlike in a right that in any of it, but that's what's gonna be going through. You said about it. That makes him an interesting point
since on the screen. Ah, I guess there's this whole mysterious dinner Mila going on and on. In fact, he actually had sent the paper names of these people before and the paper buried it and they put that in the movie after they disk
during an interview where it was like. I hope, you're not gonna, make me there the villain in this I'll. Let me tell you that right I mean so that's interesting, because I can now you think, like it's kind of bizarre, like what effect do you think why? Because you ve done you ve done pretty well for yourselves ages. Ages worked out that way, but there's nothing. I don't know I D. Do you think that your father, your father's disposition and his mode of operating as age, you more sort of it attracted to these type of characters.
I suspect there there's a whole lot, a whole lot of different influences and that again, like back to my earlier point, I all I wanted to go for the most disparate kinds of interesting parts, so I could build up as much facility, so I could last for a long time. So is actually an time. I do what I say
had to do was work consistently and a way to do that, as I was torn school, is build an arsenal.
So you can deliver a lot of different things in the end. I didn't want to be pigeonholed, because I knew that was
I would have no arsenal. Once I got older and cheekbone started,
the droop. Ah, I was gonna be dead in the water. So ok,
so the answer you die because you want to have some security and obey exactly
right without causing from exactly which comes from being able to adapt to
Nobody Jenny using now, isn't it that the guarantees that you want to play are not there not murderers. They're, just sort of a song
We morally dubious, yandah and and work
We say that is interesting.
I feel that you just trying to get close to him after all these years. That's all! I can understand that yet it animism when they're gone,
but but like I lightly the the character that Korea Ellison Characters is surprising character. Really because, like you know you it's it's a great character, do great job with it, and I think I m, because you you don't want to I M just because of what you project
onto him and then as it as you note as they show goes on, and you realize that you, he has a certain integrity to him somehow right because of his own sort of problems which he reveals I'd. I think it makes it a very unique, too
on that guy. I do too, when I read that I had to call. I mean
I had an immediate response. That was something like what the fuck is going on with this person. How does he somebody imagine that that's an ok way to be in life, you know, so I would my curiosity was PETE about who what was happening underneath him and that's always a great place to start creatively
Where are you got a lot more questions than answers, and so I know what I'm meeting a script and I pause to like think about it. I can kind of visualize like moving around or I'm kind daydreaming about this person and trying to see if there's any kind
authentic version of me, that's in there that I can judge. I know that, like that's a character, I should go towards because typically those the ones where we get to become most creatively.
Gauged and ran rewarding you know, and so this was one where I was like man. I've seen this back in New York angler my
whole life and arm this guy. Who is just a room reader. Do you care,
you put your finger on? What is motivations are other other than the display of his incredible social calculus, like that's what he's capable doing managing chaos in real time and their people in New York, like that, I mean the everywhere. You know their rights.
And the people who will sell you, son, scream and get out of the train were not sunny day and the next day they ll be there with umbrella in other just but its bite, but this guy's got liking once it was once he trying to sort of connect with rhesus character
you know he's offering up of owner Billy. That seems Jenny
when even amongst the hustle, yet even in the hustle. While I think it's a question because
Some of the greatest hustlers can ah can project a kind of authenticity because again
and their reading people, and they know Corey New in that moment what she needed to feel safe in this transaction.
The arm. He had enough empathy for her work, as ah a woman trying to establish herself and her moral agency in this environment. On that, he could identify with a weird, though, like to highlight the idea of empathy in that type of character, even when you look at this fucking current present,
that is it empathy or is it just a a mode of manipulation? I mean, I guess he empathy there at the core, but ultimately it its goal is not to empathize. I think that's a great question, and I ask that has been that was a source of ongoing conversation with with carry
and I think we discovered a kind of moral ethic. Ah that you know maybe his own,
patient, but that really is about a more level playing field and, perversely, the
The reason it may be about a more level playing field is because he just wants to display his talent with as many people as possible, so
he doesn't want to shut anybody out just for no good reason. Just as there are women are just because there are no not like him, you want, I d best people playing the game, so he can show off how good he is in a way you know like and by the way that this is what some people argue as a meritocracy. You know that the get everybody in the mix you know that competition will promote the kind of creative productivity that will make us all thrive without me, but dad. But that's what you're talking about the beginning of what one
the things you like being part of easy, ensemble, driven catharsis of a story. Now it's like getting kind of meadow. Isn't it well, so you think about then yeah exactly like, then think so. Put that philosophy in the body of a guy who's like a stone, cold killer and like wacko do
and down you got a really interesting individual with a lot of power and a capacity to evolve shift before your eyes as one yeah. I thought I really was you know, I'm amazed by the the unfolding,
I like to show you know and my the other woman I was seeing, who is not with us any more? He or she died,
let me say, land yeah
when I wanted to pass along my condolences ma- am I had a very
official interaction with her, but I actually, after working on the morning, Shell, she and I,
we're talking about doing another show to gather that you, it was working on about a chiropractor call posture on that was being produced by Steve Golan, who ended up passing away to eat ass away last year on year, resistance in space,
she's been heartbreak after heartbreak, but I had had a lot of her affection for even in our most superficial hacked the ass. She was great
but you're watching the show. I was surprised at how, though those you know, then that the whole issue of sexual and propriety and rape, and why I was kind of amazed at how was all handled I mean it- was really written beautifully. The whole thing Harry earn and ah she's responsible fer to me the creative application of a really come
located narrative, the is we're all people, you can understand. Some motivations- and you can't understand other motivations and their complexity of trying to manage a moment of redistribution of power and justice for people who have been victimized is
not going to be easy and you're not gonna get off my chest. Villain icing everybody.
Are you gonna need to understand the system that create people? What goes on to state that the kind of thing and offer that an drama like this I mean they gave gas an incredible to me like tenacity,
Bridge between the oysters and carry but be carry. Is the one for me that I saw you know her writing team being able to put it's one thing to think of that, but it's another thing to put it into action. That's him
really sophisticated writing. Ah, oh yeah, I mean hard stuff, it's hard stuff to take, continue to understand these characters and fight your own. You know desire or lack of desire to empathize with them absolutely but like working with with recent. She seems like a real fucking pro families, the dates she's at pro approach. You know I would do my scenes roused chat away, do my we're character and up and then I was ready for a fuckin nap,
I was exhausted. I was sweaty need be changed. My clothes and race. Bad ass is going in inviting dailies from the last one reading scripts of step that are coming up, probably producing three other things on the side on and then coming back after lunch to manage that you know next coverage, so I have
She engendered doing something I couldn't do one million there's a fantastic, because not only did they give me this opportunity, they encouraged. As you can see, I like to talk about acting and stuff and characters and shed, and then not everybody likes the here. Most people don't
but ah they encouraged that in me they wanted me to have some insight, understanding and arm agency and that that that was incredibly generous from a personal point of view, but from my car in a cultural point of view, what they're trying to do with the show I thought when loser draw. This is an effort I can be a part of her mad. I m sure he had the guy's a bonafide weirdo bonafide, we're gonna. I definitely relate to that and they didn't here's. The other thing to is paid in denying that they loved it. And that's that's. That's not an easy decision to make. You know you you you want to try to
tat again like it's fine, if he's complicated, but can you really be a weirdo? I can. How far can I go with that weird outside you like sexually ambiguous in a way tat, exact, yeah CS, maybe predatory, all you can't tell I mean there's someone and every time I would try, because I would see in the script- and I often have this reaction I'll see something that I think is very clear. This is with us.
What this is. Obviously, what the story is going for and then we do the first table red and people like you really want to play and like that night, oh, no! No, I don't! I job is trying to do the job. Sorry, what it was I must be going on. I I just I I'd, accommodates wrangles that I've about as well
and this was one where the first table Ribeiro, like I don't know who that weird always. But let's keep rollin with that, and I was gonna like ashamed inside, because I was I was thinking. I was just trying to do what you wrote right,
to me. It was so like I did. I was. I was trying to invent something like off the page like night right ripping with my improvisation. I was word perfect.
Yeah on our territory. That was your interpretation of it. That's how you understand that I understood because how I didn't I did no one dares there's. There are three people that that influence the character and one of them. It certainly had one of the bigger brains of any man, my friends and I have encountered and when he starts to talk at when it goes into a tangent that involve some new inside that
is a right that he giggles and he goes to himself just like the isn't, my brain, while the radio, where his discovery of the discovery of it is delightful to him. You know, and I thought I would be a really disarming an interesting way for Corey talk about his ideas. Not dictatorial, but rain is crazy that the world is falling apart and it has given us this opportunity now told him reaching thinks you're like that. That right was a really interesting component to add to it, and so I was laughing from the beginning and it to me at that point and it seemed obvious, but I had a back up and tell them.
Why, after awhile, because they're like once, you have so much here and did they been they like it loved it may yet they just. There was like a quiz.
One should have an answer. If you didn't have any held, my shit about it. If you're gonna be taken swings like that, you better have an answer and its
citing that year. You know you got the nomination as exciting as well. What's gonna so what's happening, I mean it so fucked up, because
You know everything's on hold and we don't know what we're gonna get the next season of anything. You guys, you or anything
We were two weeks in the working when they shut it down, and on that note you know it's like everybody else. Yeah we're gonna start working again in June. Ok, well, dog is that we do it is member shooting it. I get the fuck in tests that we can do in the morning and no one in our yeah. I think that's as much
improved by the FDA, the saliva tested, the NBA and yell put together. I think that's that's one of those that you can.
Pretty cheap, and you can do a lot of home working. Well, it's been approved and whether or not taken
oh apply it. I don't know what kind of our resources they have or we're gonna infrastructures and placed the manufacture
terms is gonna, be a lot of tests, but I a feeling
I think apples got the bread to put into getting a testing
do they gotta have a community, though that is going to comply goes the virus doesn't give a shit. So if our
community if it continues to circulate in the camp,
I don't care how strong your fortresses com, it's
It shown a lot of evidence that it gets gonna get in there. You fucking half a country for morons. I read it,
you're, not living in New York and be going going through this here in New York and obviously the first thing you want to do is try to understand it. So you can.
Protect the people around you. You know it's my my son and tell him why our strategy is this. Why we're doing certain things and navigate? Oh yeah, it collectively with his mom. You know, you're keep your all that stuff is it so I was watching that shit all the time trying to understand it getting his many a bit and the best that I can tell you is that the simple stuff that people are telling you works
Not like change your behavior a little bit. Don't wash your hands, you pig,
wash your hands and by the way I was germ forward before they sound like you know, let let you let them like the sidewalk and build up your immunity and strike right like yeah. That's good for this stuff that we knew about before did this one is new.
What novel means its new, so we don't know how to deal with is on it. So it's happening or managing this in real time and you know masks being politicized and people like feeling infringed upon it.
Something. I can't believe you because I've been in New York and I saw what was happening in our community before people started doing the ship than I've seen what happens with the number since then, and I've seen the protests have seen. People gather I've seen people at restaurants and the fact that the number
haven't continued spike. I'm here gives me some reasonable arm. I think understanding that this should works like it. It is not. We have ensured anything but were able to do more because it's not circulating everywhere and if you keep it from circulating everywhere, you can kind of do some stuff by not matter of applicants than on that game. The believe me I'm living in LOS Angeles. It's a fucking clusterfuck. It's like I always gonna. No one's gonna take my summer away from me literally gonna. Take your future you're gonna. Take your future away. I don't want to be in my apartment anymore. You know like.
And I don't have to be now in the same way it really on its ban on tobacco over their Shipman. Nobody will see what happens and made sums yeah you want to. I look man, it's it's gettin will crazy and you know maybe we'll get through it. I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. The way you expressed it is exactly how it deals in me my best days. It is literally like my best days that I thought about calling you earlier today. I couldn't sleep last I couldn't sleep the night before the inner there's, just as so many different things going on, they say. Listen. I've heard your show a near your insightful. You like to talk Europe.
Take you- and I want to be there with United sleep much last bankers, this crazy back in time. Can we reschedule this, but then I was like you. I can't do that to him. Then that's like myself just go in there and ramble they all go and look out lucid and rambler. You were with no sleep, it's great, we got it, we got it all covered God, please credit together, like what am I know it's great like to lose my performances. It was fun talk anymore, I'm glad you did it,
a great talking to you I'll see you around. Maybe we can hang out when we get through this shit. I would love that I love you. So men keep it going.
Ray talk, we will move in and good clip to it, good clip too
once again, Billy nominated for outstanding supporting actor in a drama series at the Emmys this year you can watch all
of season one of the morning show on Apple TV plus
I have no music for you, just sort of take a deep breath in doubt out
interview knows? You're the universal can feel happy birthday. When shown. I miss you
overly lives, so the monkey and the plunder
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Transcript generated on 2020-08-27.