« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1189 - Mandy Patinkin

2021-01-04 | 🔗

Mandy Patinkin is a renowned star of stage and screen, beloved for his roles in The Princess Bride and Homeland, admired for his mellifluous voice and impressive vocal range. But Mandy and Marc barely talk about any of that. Instead, they get deep into a discussion about life, death, love, religion, the Holocaust, depression, suicide, self-doubt, insecurity, and the meaning of this whole thing we’re all going through. And believe it or not, they find some answers! It’s the perfect talk for a new year as we head into the unknown.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Cancun is here today. You know him from his movies and tv shows. The princess bride homeland is Broadway shows like a veto and son in the park with George his albums his concerts and we talk about almost none of that How do we just in go that way. We got on the horn, we got on the video horn. My guide to disguise by? decade older than me. That's one older jus talking to an older jus than him. Unlike, let's see an aging jewish man with a depressed if so, ash manic personality, I'm wired, to have this conversation. This might as well be family. It It was great yeah, Mandy, Potemkin, come up
What have you been doing? What have we been doing? I'm trying to get organised, trying to get my room, organise and trying to get my books together? I had all the books from my old garage, which was resisted pact, sort of collage of life of mine, my life, a museum of me and fan art, but books, now, just start going through our poor, mild books are the basement. Their moments run like what I need of these books for, and I've been carrying out of him around for years, but to sit with them occasionally now that I'm reorganising them like oh yeah, this one- and even if you pick up a book you been carrying around for twenty years and look at three paragraphs and reinvigorate your interested dumb, something new into your head- that you can add the stuff that's already there and- and and turn it around a bitter make you see it differently or blow your mind even for a fuckin second or to God bless right or whatever, or better books are for that's what hundreds of books are for, at all the Wilhelm write books. I don't know why I was fascinated with the guy. The guy was this fuckin renegade- this outlier, this outcasts
I go analytical prodigy Freud In- any comes here and he just cut fuckin turns it. Out man Papa S, brain an open blows, his own mind, maybe a little by power. Maybe a little nuts decided that unites me. I guess he was coming one day, and he was like this all here, man, all the powers. Amid from my balls the powers emitting from the Volvo from the quitters? All the power is coming out of the orgasm all this power. The organ is the quantity is the photon of the biological energy that surrounds everything and all of us in his racing through everything and all of us all the time and you can tap into who had right in your pants. the guy was a wizard, the European Institute main organ. therapy writing therapy got a little out there, though man, you gotta. What about that? We set up a big cannon to shoot the.
Or going into the sky and change the weather, so that seem to a far fetched, but he was pursuing it and they ran him down like an outlawed dog. He built the organ boxes. I guess that's how I got into it. First, maybe boroughs was talking about the organ boxwood Jesus Box can dropped it of organic matter? You sit in it, collects organ energy recharge, but they busted to the point where they burned, always books shut him down through in jail in the way fifties. He died in jail. The FDA, shut him down and actuating a little bit and I dont know the true history of it. But I was fascinated with the guy: Basically, what he was dealing with, I think Was the idea that in most of our problems, come from sexual repression or or sexuality repressed on purpose, in order to control people, so it seems The core of his idea was to unleash the cock, unleash the badge unleash the organ energy, no, shame about the sex
sex economy. He called it. And that's where love and everybody could come together. A rat. Kate, the shame around orgasm sex- built an entire science out of it and burned is fuckin books. Then later in the sixties, people rest wretched him. It was like this is the time for this. for the Oregon, nonetheless fascinating character. Now, here's but the story goes so just poking around in the book and I know I think I don't know the history of him. I don't know what he is transgressions these committed. I know he thought of his a lunatic, but there is stuff here? I just open this book. Apparently a couple of books about psychology that were very near that still hold character, analysis in the mass psychology of fascism, but this one carve ether, God in Devil, and It's two bucks and cosmic superposition. My turn
If the page, sixteen hundred browsing and browsing I find we observe that I'm quoting right here. We observe that human Thought systems show tolerance as long as they adhere to reality. The more the thought process is removed from reality. The more intolerance and cruelty are now. to guarantee its continued existence holy she was at the opening of a new show. Is that you should that be on the front page? age, of what we're living through right. Now I will I feel I should to me then I found out, I quote from Reich fascism is the frenzy of sexual cripples. Fascism is a frenzy of sexual cripples the army on flexible hate nerds among others, sex joy. Crippled does not mean that you don't come sexually crippled
mean that your paralyzed by porn sexually, cripple this broad. What does it mean? What does that repression mean? What does at shaming? What does itself hate me? What are you looking for love? Are you looking for love? you afraid to surrender. Are you enabled to open your heart? Are you broken? Are you broke in by your creators. Fascism, the frenzied sexual cripples So this takes me to another place, for me to email doktor up the writer hold on hold on. I'm not losing it, I'm not losing it. her five, but I'm not losing it now. The new year can be a good, I am for mental health check in right? I think I'm doing that now and be as with yourself, when you do that check in, I know a lot of his think: hey whatever is going on right now I can handle it, I can handle it but think about
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I'll go w p. I get started today at better HD lp, dot com, so W E, F, there's, no shame in, for help. Doktor? Oh here's, the on going through my books. I this book. called Wilhelm, Reich in the USA and its rather trial of Well Marine, and oddly, it's got a diagram for how to build an organ box in the back. That was the pretext. They nailed my interstate commerce cell in the boxes, a man. It might have been hustle, but a hustle judge. It gave her husband organ boxes, Well, then, I've got an organ box. I want to tell you, but have this book now the reason is tricky. they tried to shut a genius down. They shot a genius down there put a mass of mind, a provocative and in boosting possess thinker that threaten the established order with his thinking
it could have spread and fed the fire of socialism. Free love. liberation. It was a threat to capitalism. Aside from how can the organ boxes but they put him in jail, died in jail. not saying he was saying: don't at about him d, the story obsessed with and I've, given you some the tidbits, but I have this. book will come right in the USA, which belong to email doctrine, the writer of ragtime and many other books. people lovey of doktor. How did tat happen, Marin? Well, it's got the owl doctors notes in it and new doodles, not really you tell em things he marked as important. Maybe I'll doktor was thinking about writing a novel that involved. Ike or he wrote historical novels, maybe character right, but we mark. Why do you have your vouchers book?
first deal I had in show business I believe, was an embassy And when you get a deal you meet a bunch of writers, nay assign you a rider. Were you choose a writer who they have under contract to cry? data sitcom with now which was. I was this aggravated neurotic chef who is working in a basically a corporate kitchen but I had a vision, man. It was basically me instead of a comic I'm a chef. and the guy I was writing with who I was told, selling point was he was on single guy. This guy was on single, get richer doctoral. This yes of eel doktor up one. We met in New York at his father's apartment and his father was teaching rest in peace the staging it and why you we met at an apartment in the Washington mused, which is beautiful girl, community from the eighteen hundreds right in the middle Fuckin downtown manhattan- and I saw this
looking at the time I was sort of getting into trying to understand, Reich Where can I borrow this book and I did I took it right off of veal doctors shelf ever got back to him, not only that, the pilot went nowhere. I dont think Richard Doctoral liked me at all. I can get since I was just this code up sweaty neurotic jus with this idea and I never shut up. We wrote a script, it went nowhere and then I do not ever see him again and that, as I was sitting there, the other day in a mountain of fuckin books reading his father's property, I said what happened that guy defined him any it just like his show. Business career goes away by in a way nineties, no sign, nuthin duel deeper Google search, looking at pictures trying to find him. They turn now, I'm afraid down. One maybe he's hiding I found him in an article as The curator of an exhibit.
but the sag harbour wailing museum, yeah, I dont, like I literally, haven't even thought about this guy. In decades,. and I tracked down and that three tat- and I like look man. I respect any body. Who makes a decision to get the fuck out a show business. Are I get out get out and find another wife for yourself. You know but why. he said the wailing museum I found this book. In his father's library about the FDA, the: U S, government harpooner being a bit, it thinker a wail of a fuckin thinker and take I'm down lock him up let them die in jail, Willem Reich wailing, tat, horrible age, old business of killing big cosmic monsters, the beer.
Four cosmic monsters, the whales. The geniuses of the Ocean Reich the genius of the orgasm I don't know man sometimes wife is like a novel. do you know what I mean Sometimes, if you just connect the dots, the stories go beyond that go beyond, in twenty twenty we are in the internet is even more awesome than we thought. People groceries, online movies, online meals, online and, of course, going to the post office with Stamps dotcom stamps dotcom allow businesses to do all their malian shipping right from their computer and is saved. Small business is all over the country, thousands of ours and tons of money. We ve been using stamps dot com for a decade since
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there's one those talks, Mandy Potemkin, where He had nothing to really promote. I was just like. Maybe he did originally back when we're gonna. Do it originally just never happened? I know what happened, but we just wound up talking about whatever, just and I did it and it turn into a pretty deep talk about life. and what it all means, and and its think basically, it's a good way to the new year as we head into the unknown. this is me talking to me. They Potemkin how's, it going how's it going well as can be expected, the day is good. So are the dog did a business under my wife is is there not totally furious with make that's good? took the dog out when you walk every day. Are we
work several times, because right now, she's being treated for heart worm Oh a part of it is to give her proposal, which makes you pay a lot the day her very last represent pills over eight weeks. Usually runs freewill about in the country ass over a week sphere to be on a leash, which we thought would be a quieter shocking thing but it's actually worked out, great and she's a dear heart and and were very happy in two weeks, you'll be able to be off elation. How are they The dog I love, this dog canning, put it into words. She we got her on March Thirteenth, right after New York shut the fuck up We and we didn't get her as a covert god. The kids kept saying that you need a dog needed reality Why did they tell me that they were worried about me What was going on please I was, I was alive,
we're gonna get their dog. I condemn and spoke out tonight started talking about it when we we ve been talk. About it, and the problem always was my life united Travelin right, crazy. What he would be put the dog right? Will you do and the? But I wanted to take six months when I finish, I finished, do a lot of work. I finish like ten years, I was Origin series- and I finished thirty citizen- a concert turn and I said I mean: the stop? I was gonna stop for six months to here and just see what life was like and both are useless. I used to say to everyone: you know what about all the things that I didn't consider when I was a kid you like life like anything everything else that I I didn't
everything else of life that you didn't do sixty years ago. You don't like the way you helped build model planes exactly planes out of paper so so anyway, but but its very little, because I had a lot of friends and were retiring assuming they would also united busier than I ever was right. You know, do I thought all ok Souci, but but you can't see that's when the whole world retires with you, you know by true, but you know why, though you know what I realize Mandy when that happened like I realise that there is nobody to resent for doing. something you're not so there is a peace to it. You did that You know it's like well what that guy doing nothing, no one's doing anything. What that's relaxing that's that's run the yeah, yeah or or exactly right, my end and dumb and- and
you're you're, never testing yourself. If something tempting comes along whatever it might know, there's nothing! There's! No I've been coming people by one year, you to use your voice for something or do one of these things and then that's all you need is at its height locked of my life figuring out how to get you can call your room pressure, you I don't mean to pressure you, but I've fucked it up when all its it's. Alright, it's already been great, so but there's no! What you have you? Didn't you there's? No, you can't call your aging go. What the fuck is happening. What I m right, I didn't really want to retire nuthin you. Gotta learn how to enjoy your family in your dog. Well You know it's really been interesting. Might my son was on? the way working. And and he was my younger one, my order, under way with this then fiance now wife, because they were gonna, have a wedding in October and now it became a covered wedding. So they actually Edward you have already on a mountain, by themselves, which I always which I
but you know a lot of people all over the world, have those kinds of unions, yonder and in some ways I thought, my god it's so pure. It is no commercialism, involve not only a blue eyes or leave me. I you know, and you know it things don't work out. You don't disappoint. Two hundred and fifty people by your presence s right and you can. parties, you know come and when the time is right, and rightly so, But my younger one was worried about us, and so he wanted to get here to take care of us and not go. We shouldn't go dropping, like you know, like we're right. Let's get in his mind, and once you got here, he come down and we had a way of Euro were living with safety in distance and yet always and so, but the joy has been having him here. What's nice yeah yeah, how old is he he is thirty, four, the younger one and so he's busy working in over stop the reserve on our so he's in you know in the endeavour in the room MECCA, Whatever he's gonna do when he gets the green light to be free again, we have,
like. It seems like everybody around you. It seems like you come from artistic family well, did you go up like that word you grow up. No, no. I mean when you when you said that I immediately thought of my family's outside of Chicago and no artistic good nature there. But I did hear that my grandfather's work, actors and moisten and shocked, seen off composure. Drug really say they were actually yeah. You come from, the Jews were engaged with the community on that lie, come from tailors, yeah, yeah yeah. We were actually I We were shoemakers because in pole The name per tinker means women's slipper, hot, so not one. I think I think, therefore we probably had something to do with the making sure. So you got Poland is that where it is yeah. I actually found that will also connected to Belarus. Recently two's yeah. Eastern european pale of settlement yeah yeah
So I found this out because I did the young, the PBS show finding your route me too. There's been aired yeah you're mine was an arrogant so you know Henry was incredible but they were covered, was just earthshaking. I don't want to share what it was this point, because I don't wanna say what you know their show no spoilers for the for the Potemkin genealogy line. Yes, those workers for the protection and condition to not saying anything about safety and the big finnish. You don't want to ruin that for anybody there may be other I spoke to them for about five hours. God knows what they'll at a down payment. You know get a very nice book and big! You get a book in a poster. You got that but it was my son Gideon. He said they had I'd love it. If you would call these guys, because I think they do it with you and I to have it for the family to pass on. You know-
to everyone, and they do amazing work and an answer. I did it for him, but he called them and and they're gonna- send us all five hours, so he'll have that for his archives and whatever he wants to do with it. He'll have the slow build too Then how have you been Marco? How have you been doing, though? couple days have been difficult. I don't know why it comes and goes you know. You know a guy. I was full of dread and anxiety before you know, and then I had dared tragic loss of a loved one, and then you have this a thing in but For some reason, there are moments where I wake up and, unlike you know what the fuck happened now and death. I'm sorry, I'm sorry for your loss. I I I found out about it this morning. I listened to the hope, I'd cast of of you in
producing, though the one you met her yeah yeah, what went when you met Libya, listen to two that agenda. and what happens now I mean for whatever it's worth. I, if we're lucky enough to live long enough. We're all gonna go through this, but I now want to go through it with love ones that are in the prime of their life and write again, and you can't I don't know how the process than I've been through a too many times really and and I have no understanding of it right you know of all the place. I always tell friends my fate red line and all of literature was written by Oscar Hammerstein from all things, but a musical called carousel right and the line that I love. But I say to myself and all friends is as long as there's one person on earth who remembers you it isn't over,
and I love it and the other thing that I do because of that line, every day in my meditations or my prayers or walk in the dark whatever sometimes to three times a day before I go on stage before I go in front of a microphone, I say this meditation and inclusive and that, as I say, the names everyone. I knew who's who have passed on and I do it for comfort. and for the possibility that if, if Einstein in theory of relativity was right and energy doesn't die, no matter what energy inhabited before its new form right then, maybe I can talk to of Moses or Jesus you're, Buedir, Abe, Lincoln or my dad or sure or or my best friend Bob there are still there are still around in some form I so it's you know I I I live in my imagination, but then I will That's a very long as it's a moral universe at Sir. I think that's what we shall do so
that's the world, I'm comfortable in the end. It's a game, no doubt on it, but it's a game. I like, I think it's all a game. I think religion is a great game invented by him credible butter. What how were you brought up? conservative a Jew and Chicago, which I always say as is an orthodox you, if you're from Allay Anna reformed you if you're from New York right, I was brought up. Conservative do in New Mexico, come from New Jersey, Jews show so basically utter. What did you find like when I will back on it. As I get older and and spirituality becomes a question or you, I've never been that much of a seeker of divinity. a bite but I mean I found the day as a Jew. I was taught nothing about building a relationship with God I know we read the books, we went to the hebrew school, but I never was taught how to use God a guide. I was told he was there, but there was no practical way I could do it every day. I'm not gonna do to felon,
connect you, I'm not going to dive in every day, so as a conservative. class. Do you know we just do it. The idea of God was never put into function. For me me too, I'm you know all religion, people say to me: we're your parents, Republicans are Democrats and they were only men's club sisterhood. The cynic was the center of the life. I want to Hebrew School every day after three o clock public rang- and I was I tell you no five, thirty or six when you go home for dinner and the butt never believed in God, and I here I am, now my ultra orthodox holocaust, survivor, friends, etc. Would would refer or to its necessary for you to breathe the fear of God into the fetus, whilst in the mother's womb. Ok. So if That's what does it gives you the belief of God? God bless you and, and and- and I hope you have a good, wonderful, peaceful, that didn't For me, nor has it ever gonna happen
When I met my wife Two years ago I I had a feeling that I couldn't explain, we didn't want to get engaged or mere she didn't want to get married. She was very sixties, feminist person and I didn't know what TAT meant, and you do. What are you now I I just I I I I guess I'd better, not talk about that. I have a whole list of things that I should pronounced put on. The walls and my children have said there don't talk about that. Talk about that girl mentioned in this document because it saw it sir, and now there are no escape see even became, go away for a few days, but we, married because I wanted to do something that was beyond my understanding of what I felt and that definition of. What's more than I understand, the word religious religion, and I don't even know what it means, but is
I got older and I'd say, probably within the past ten years near you certainly when children came along, and I wanted to ask for other help, make sure they're. Ok, right and but but but it's point, I think, within the past ten years my alter orthodox friends would constantly four two hundred m. Instead of God or G hyphen d- and I started a sham and and I started using this word when I say my prayers every day, and so or even I dont believe in a literal god, I believe, an energy like- I said from Einstein right everything lives on in that way. But I I'm I'm nothing but a hypocrite. Like most you the easier and- and I speak to this- I've labelled how sham that I heard the name from others and amber and I literally say help me- help you in any way. I can in any way imaginable
Right I mean I I've I've re engaged with the prayer and I say prayers. I pray to the big nothing. And You know I. I think there is something about the act of it that put you into a a groove that has been carved for centuries that there is at a frequency there that you can tap into that is grounded. I started to meditate recently. I wish I never did before, and I can see how that that helps out a bit. But it's interesting to me speak of these ultra orthodox friends. How many Alger orthodoxy we hang out with, while there was mainly Mr Sidney, who the landlord I apartment in New York and he was a survivor of of the Holocaust from Olle Schmidt's, and we became your friends and I became dear friends with his family matters, and I remember he told me about making Martha in Auschwitz, Sir, with just some little flower that he fanatical from the guards.
on a rock on a hot rock. That event and one day I was in Colorado and we were in a pass over. So we were looking for monster to make a sailor and everybody was say where, but by what the hell, let's market, whether has an end, it was a jewish cracker. We recommend We couldn't find it, and so I made Mr Sidney's Mazzolata raw or water. on a rock outside that I put a firearm real and it was. It was really meaningful because I guess At the end of the day, the eight ball game for me is about connecting connecting to the unknown my friend you said me. When I went, I sing Hopefully the yiddish concerts is what I am a form did in my ass as a literal, imaginary friend, When I look into the darkness, when I'm on stage are you? Can
please put whoever you want out there, but, but I one point I just put all the survivors of all the Holocaust, not just Jews, but native Americans in Africa Africans, who were killed on ships and people were continually suffering to this day and and all those people, I put them all in the seats in the audience right and and therefore I'm I'm, I'm very cool four did not alone, and I know it's cool is it, but I don't give a shit and it's not great. deejay. You know it's being of service its connecting to hear this universal idea that you have in its also honouring the memory, like you said initially that if there is one person out there that remembers you, you know that honouring the memory of of of the lost is is the important thing I mean that the most important thing. That's I mean that goes back to the carousel idea. Is that the biggest threat to to civilization is is the trivial innovation or forgetting the past. I think so I
I don't, but I am not a believer that you know count. Let's go over what happened in life and it will. It will free me and unlocked me and let me be peaceful. I don't think I'll, have you tried, don't give it doesn't? Do it, because you like it's very difficult. Can you get into that dynamic where you get into that sort of thing? petitions victim mode where you're not really doing. Anything but circling around a thing forever, yeah you know I I you you can play game and say what is your mother says your father? This is the dna of Yea offering of your people, etc. You no great. If that's what brought about it I don't buy it ironic that says my life. This is your life, it's my job to do whatever I mean to do to get through the next five minutes cut yeah I think it's a cognitive exercise. You make choices, I think so I think. But
five minutes a year if you're on a five minute clock. Sometimes highlights the eye of a clock in front of me and it's a chess clock and- and I I see how long you boys you how long I wrote the impact maybe we'll do meet every five. Admittedly, a five minute clock on your well being so when when did you start singing I started singing in the choir seven years old, requiring nights, wired, jewish choir the centre got the boy. The squire and uncertainty morning in the synagogue and on Friday night, with the family choir, at seven years old in the, and that's where I heard is, if I heard all the old guy singing and shuffling and and been the cry voice you know under and that's where I heard it and that's where I just became home with it, but he really hatch. it all in Hebrew hot, so you ve really see you so that
There is the easy you, those primitive maladies. Those also me I do that a guy just sent me be some sort of a twenty minute peace Havana, Gila, which I am not very interested in these things of people's me on my phone Vienna watch them I why did much. If you have you have enough people, your phone, it's like a full time job. So, but But this one I wanted to be able to say something: nice bad. So I looked at in the forest for five minutes. Who goes you about prayer in about prayer in the window, root words to Hava Gilad. It was useless creation the origins of the melody, etc and then the guy It says that in Judaism weather It is true or not I like that, and he said Judaism. You know the prayer and they come from the town in and and and this unity. Various areas. We ask that the most holy prayer of all. Holy sound of all is music and I love that Finally, I feel I feel tuna
personal magic. I feel it connects us in ways that we can't even expressed. I have yet you know I I can't help but be so affected by Learning about your loss, and the and feeling connected to all of us. Who are dealing with loss in such insane numbers, but none of that, whether its historical, immediate, oh, what's America in our lives across the world or personal they do you or what's happened to me, went when it happens to you directly. You have to leave it and and and and and it is it is. It It is a mystery to me that in certain at this point. I know everybody deals with it. I know everybody comes to that end, whether you're awake or not, conscious or not, but I am certain at this point-
I will never understand it when I lost my best friend, you know who we grew up with an end of February and I went then been sat with them and would horrible thing happening. Kissing his head and and and every day, I'm just log. and another dearest friend of mine who died a number of years ago, named Debbie Friedman, did you know that name Debit, Debbie Friedman? was of out of our generation, probably for most reform, jewish. Composure of reform, music reward, jewish liturgy, but her gay wasn't. She just took the words from liturgy but she would say to me: I dont know where the blood these come from, I I don't know where they come from. the end we used to have a common because of our just our com? struggle of dealing with them depression and an engine I'm just trying to be
peaceful. We would have a conversation where we would I'll say to each other at times the sorry my wife's gone out the door We must say to each other. Just you know that our best you get these notes, as I'm sure you ve gotten from people say. Thank you so much. I'm or your work. Their music got me through this time, got me through my father, my mother, my area, that an end your very grateful for this. You know unknown connection that you know what we do because we're sitting with everybody when, when I worked is the being received. I'm dumb and used to say to each other that issue gender Beth. She feels like this whole goes through her and just comes out be a kind of clean and uncorrupted, and I I say to her: do you know maybe I understand it so well only it's the wrong kind of whole if he doesn't have those little holes in it like that garden holds that so none of its seep send me it is a good day of comes through and then there's not too much man be going out, sir. I clean and available for you, but
I wish it had holes so that would get- and I understand that I understand it so so you know that a so the ideas that you give an and there's a reward to that moment of giving you know you walk away depleted instead of full. I wouldn't say totally depleted, I would just say may be. Life would be better if some leaks would have occurred. I get it. I get a while the greek thing like I don't like it's an insurmountable and I can identify with what you're saying because, like you just yesterday. I really try to limit your she got, kick in the house here and an end, you know in they took her away and I never saw her again many areas. And I didn't I didn't know- I didn't know what we know we didn't know. You know so impossible to understand. How can that be talking to you right now in one of us might not be here, in him. In an hour I am or whatever- and the friends of we ve lost their way than I I'm not
you know all the people that have experiences are what's going on now it, Sir I just want to share. You know cause I just want to share something to just say that you know don't feel funny or battered like give a problem. Maybe because every day you open up your phone and an you read about numbers that are insane about whose die here all over the world and so you're, just in Indiana, overwhelm or you're having dreams that people are coming Yet you are it's over whenever whatever is going on, but I find myself just involves, in Sobs weeping profusely and thank God for Catherine, my wife, because she would literally oh just sits on the couch with me and holds me, and sometimes I can't stop crying for an hour, and I can't tell you the trigger of the tear or or ambition or what brought it on. I just
get overwhelmed wound, and she just holds me and the other day was so clear to me, and I just want to say this. I knew what I am about to say to you. You probably thought said to others are heard yourself, but I'm listening to Debbie Friedman, music and Ngos. Are you would think within it and and access? rising this music and all of a sudden, the floodgates scope, I'm goin for I have, for you know. I can't stop because I missed her so bright were an end who took me six years to have dreams about my foot till I had the first theme about my father when he died. When I was eighteen and I was exe, gotta go in that dream, career and every time we where you know we're out
my father in a dream or I'll be overwhelmed. That he's miss. The kids are where I miss Debbie from hearing your music or I take a walk with the dog and where's. My buddy Bob, and I just as is sometimes kind, sometimes have just fuckin lost in the woods. I am ecstatic that I'm having those thoughts year, bigger I'm with them. in in a sad way, but better than nothing. Oh yeah, I have dreams about her and I wake up and in the end, in all that, every time I have a dream about her, it's really nothing more than that she's here that that were here We have worked together and I'm like all my god. It was so you ok and then you wake up and it's terrible Boy but limb, but let me just let me offer this and call me Craig see. If you want, I don't care what we I see you wanna zoom screen. You see me, I'm look the room. I see my dog. This is all supposed to be what you call the reality. I have a dream where I see my father, you see Lindner or or
my buddy Bob. This is me and then dream! That's yours, conscious, fuck! You is what I say: That's my brain. Having these thoughts. These images, these memories, don't tell me that there are any real or or or not It is meaningful, as looking at a full the graph or having this conversation, that's reality and the others just addicts, it's not for me. They're. Both real hear me yeah. Why not and then, whatever in my brain works, I'm good with the? Why not? Why not look at it like that? Why not you know what I mean that to you you're being visited your spending time. I mean you know, this is what life is, and that thing you're saying is true. Is that the horrible thing about grief and about everybody having to deal with it is it's as common as birth as eating dying is common. Is anything else we do as people shit eating being born or whatever it is. But you know that
that were conscious of our own mortality and a sort of weight of it and the feeling of loss in missing than your own mortality, and it's like it ate it. It's like the way I feel like it was the final kind of a right of passage to being. You know alive and grounded and end and in touch with the world. Was this loss, you know and I'd never experienced before its dates. Every stating like I watch the video. I try not to do it by I watched, a video of her yesterday and like you just the sort of check in Eurasia. these weird pieces of film with her yes singing or dancing whatever in any, which is I can't I just it's terrible it it the losses. Just it is terrible, and in those and I'm so happy that you are able to were to stay in the crying. I can't stay in a very long ya, know I am I stop myself. You know
You spoke a lot. I read what you had to say about this period. I read about you're trying to stay with the brief and I want the chat with your moment, because I listened a long time ago when my friend Robin Williams, died, and you have done an interview with men. You play that role and I went to school together, yeah I loved Robin Beer and dumb, and I knew him before he was Robert Williams, where you Julie idea, and he was the kindest in place that was cut throat in no other way. People can be in those places. You know I want the part what the attention I want. I want any left or right. He didn't finish right now. He didn't finish. But Robin you, you would be insulate you'd, be like twenty twenty five kids in your group, so you would do that better. You could go see the other groups work right, yeah, deep, linear, Robin would come in and he was just such a cheer leader and
it was just so support him, and it was only unusual because no one else did that. No one else did and then we would go to for our part and beyond the prominent near seventy. Second, he put on his Panama gear and he'd walk round following people like you did the San Francisco and and then and then we would see each other at the thing was called language on Columbus that sushi russian bumpy Joe. the sushi bar every hand them? And then I is doing a concert. Years later, I was doing to play at Berkeley when I went back safe because he was going to do a benefit there and I want to say hi yeah and he was terrified just I thought had on his colorful. it was that he was gonna put on and we were backstage. We which gonna go on and he was just so frightened. And I'd run into him a couple times like Letterman or whatever backstage it, and I would just say, I'm frightened. He worked, and and and one day we we,
However, a dinner with my kids when there were little on my son Isaac ahead, apprised, you know the good morning Vietnam Monologue at the beginning. That was not to come out of the mouths of all of Us of a seven year old buddy, but Robin sitting at the table and eyes unloads the entire speech on an Robin rear. and the Rams masses drop, any would be very quiet if you knew Robin yeah area via messy, unless it was on and. And when I was in PIG town, South Africa and I the coroner on my way home from work. and I heard the news on the radio. I could To understand how that happened, I could understand how Rob and whose talent and gifts were meteoric, and let left me not even in the dust I didn't even exist compared to what robins abilities. Nature were, and yet we
He had somewhat of a similar life. We both performed he and comedy me with music. We both were actors and plays and films in television via an end, so we'd be on the road, and you finish your performance and people would lead to their feet and say thank you and before you get off stage and the lights go back the black. You are in a it's over you're gone, then you use they go back to the hotel where the ogre gave you the Fuckin presidential, suite you're, all alone right and you're, just gonna get get to the morning when you get back on the plate element in candy from the many bar that's rank, and I'm my teacher that I met, in two thousand six work hard with me. I worked when when that news came a robin I and but the work
but he's done with me, since two thousand section has changed. My life is is is to stay with our discomfort. Period. Whenever it is, I try I like to cut out when I'm in discomfort. Not only do I stay with it, I make it worse. Generally, yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah of fuel the field of times, but but but I believe deeply Video is a a global epidemic of people not knowing how to do it, and by that I mean this, and I use the term, samples of one who was an acquaintance, Philip Seymour Hoffman and one who is somebody that I was connected to us we're an end yet Those are just famous people. This happens, people every day because I couldn't understand how, in those moments when he was trying to set up a chair and an ability to take his life all this seconds ago in between that that balancing act How do you not have that one second catch yourself that we?
so many of us have been in so many times in our life and Ryan for over thirty years and we get through it, but he did not get through but that one time and end at an end Oh? What do you want to use the word alcohol or drugs or it's an illness? None of it. Matters may really, because but I believe is the missing thing for all of our lives, and people all over the world is is one, what you gonna be uncomfortable, meaning a list. kid who falls Scrapes, her knee mommy and daddy sailor kiss it and make it go away. Don't I could go away kiss it's fine, Don't tell him it has to go away. So we, alive is trying to fix everything we it with a literal fix we fix with food. We forget it away. We quit away, we run away. We a nation, States kill it away and energy Philip see more often these and Robin wants to our greatest
contributions to, its humanity to this life that we know if they ve been. You can't have that kind of mind and not be aware, but even you're, overwhelmingly successful its can be just as uncomfortable so you ve got a nominee oh yeah right I mean I get that but, like the weird did that I think, like Look man, I mean you know. I am fortunate in that. I dont believe that I am your clinically deep. Asked I suffer from profound dread and anxiety so unit you know so when I have suicidal thoughts it's really not because things are so miserable adjusts. It's just I need. I need a break right, so I am able to, to move through that generally its anxiety based so, but I think these people, who are overly you, you know in tune and overly sensitive in can't you
to find their way out from under it I mean both with Say, Philip. It was horrible addiction but with rob- and you know it was a choice from what I understand around not wanting to live with a with data. pulling disease, but still the choice that you're talking about it. Profound one. Then he went in and it sounds like. You have talked yourself out of this before yeah? I mean I've been dark I've, but I'm certainly one person who said you know I don't. I don't want to go through this. You know and the thing You don't want to go through, as is is feeling paying. You want peace, but he rang, who does anything at all. They want is peace of mind peace. They just want peace and who doesn't want peace, so we all had a version of the agenda, and I just say to myself and and to intended that I talk to an occasion when when the subject comes and forgive me for going into territory. That may be inappropriate, No, this is how I knew you in all this this connection deriving from before,
and then and then a friend said you know about about what happened in your life recently and I just dumb I just feel its common ground that we shares is humanity in the area and I am learning curve Oh yeah, it's profoundly sad, you know, and I try to you know my choice. Disorder be public about. It was near to honour some some someth, some stuff. You're saying you know like I, don't you by comedy and my work has always been from me, engage in the life of living, so I chose to sort of you know, share it and yet in it in that enough itself, its it sort of what you're talking about when we talk about oh, you know is that you, when you when you're giving your. art or a year? Expressing your your true feelings the tremendous risk there and the risk is not so much it. You're gonna be hurt them
this gazette, you know there's no, what's the return on it and then you have ask you know why am I doing it am I looking for that? Am I doing it to two to experience. we're going like all we love you. We love you, but even that's not enough generally. So what is it Really I mean what have you come up with I mean if you not I'm, not one, those people that needs the love of an audience. That was never why I got into it, but when you say that the whole does it work inside I mean what, if what, if Their conclusions around that around your in an impetus to do this stuff it it's not. the the adulation is its own drug. That is, is poisonous as jobs that kill you. It's a bottomless pit, If you go, you go surfing you'll, never your You'll never get enough and you'll only fine things that hurt you cause. You went looking and and you'll find things. Are you so what I ve come to think is, Why I do what I do and have done what I've done is for the structure of of it for the
for what we really just experienced in these past nine months, a life without distraction, member and the test of that existence without a distraction is pretty profound, too ass yet still to our own selves and- and I think I'm not so in love with the singing or acting or what it takes. I love the crest of the research of the struck, sure of the of the taking the walks in coming up with possibilities, that of looking for connective tissue that I can connect to end. and and and how it just wasting my time, in a way that Jean Louis would say is good waste good trouble. You know and an uses up my energy and makes me feel like I've lived the day and when I have now been through nine months. Without it, I've come full circle. To those nine months ago and go I need a break I dont want to retire. I want
find a way be in a room with my friends in and make what no music we're gonna do. How do we rebirth community? putting together in the theater where people are, is the latter sitting on the list of going to an environment, you know where you can sit in a room with other people and regions and so how can I be a part of Is it a halfway house? Is that other space, people have all kinds of ways there trying to come up with this, but but that Earl gave me my life and right now it's decimated the hour nickel in Saturday's New York Times about. I think her eye, for get the young ladys name was the violinist the fifty two per cent of the arts community that isn't working at all that lost everything. She had a good. rear with a whole years, bookings gone, along with millions of other people, you know in an indifferent forms of work, and the living on food stamps, and they and the end its stunning that the right,
drawn industry have an average of fifty two percent is only twelve percent affected, twelve and a half percent fact, meaning they can still sustained the lifestyle, but they ve sort of design, but the arts is just devastated. Beatitude gotta eat people, gotta, eat and and and what can we do who were given such such gifts? By going to look in talking about this reason. I realise what does it that I'm missing and I'm missing being with my piano player and make an amusing, but that's not what I'm missing hissing, just I just need one person in the room. No absolute has just one person to laugh or you remember the music to remember and that one person makes what was a boring rehearsal into just a life. No absolutely not. How do we get those one person's I stayed there. I just did a movie. I was on a movie for for twelve days with strict protocol US masks and everything, but it felt so good like
with good to, but it was like. I chose to take it, I'm alone, I'm sad. You know I was God? They convinced me that it was going to be safe enough and once I surrender to- and I was so fucking grateful Mandy to be around people be doing the work just that in the end. I it's acting work is its relatively new to me in terms of your figuring out how to do it and making choices and in getting better so I was, you're right, you're, absolutely right. How do we get back to that country? scary everyone's a masters, not the fun kind of like collaborative community that it once was everyone's terrified button and making the shit, but like Yes, you some. When you were starting out, I mean weight How did you balances idea of like you, acting or or singing right will you always going to end in the musical theater was always that were or was it there was there a time where you are going to make a choice? You have a say,
thing. No brainer, you didn't have to do anything. You didn't have to go to Juilliard, to learn how to saying you just right, because nobody sang in the synagogue, every little killer thing. Every old man say she wasn't anything, you have to work at you right, you just gotta show and nothing to do but I wanted to become a classical actor and somehow that evolved into both go to a school. The teaches you to become a classical actor so decided that, but ironically, Julia, the famous music school in the drama department, where we were there are no thing, not a fucking note with some university. just all all the Karen people apart and put your hard on the table in some teacher, not know how to get it back your body and zip up. You know you're gonna get. What does that mean you were there? Did you went? You went through the whole program, you didn't get it but you didn't get caught, knew you you will. You were in the competition of that environment? Did it the devastating amended. Did you? Were there any positive lessons learned from that competitive nature of that place, and not the commission
of nature. The competitive nature I to this day. I feel, is unnecessary. I do not feel that school, where you you're either and scholarship or paying as a young person that you should take what real life has to offer down the road and it's got threatening get used to it. You know we're gonna, throw out of the programme. Were you know you don't make the market a boss, This is a time to be safe and cared for an end and kindness right, applied The real world comes long enough to everybody and will I'll get a taste of it, but I have and though the gift of Bill hurt William hurt use, they asked name will always be build me and the work we it together and Gerald Friedman. My teacher and Marion sell these and then also my two friends who were cut from the pro grim and one of them They each had a quality that I wanted a one eighteen years, old,
hope his mind to grown ups and I've never seen a person with youth for person speak whatever you had to say without creating and the other one? kindness that I desperately wanted an and about their ability that he just was so beautiful. and- and I left the programme after two and a half years we had twenty six kids, I think in a closet, I think there was one guy left at the end of the four year programme life six or seven women all the rest of us left in my, group in my on your own volition. I left I wanted to leave after I was there for five minutes. and I waited because I didn't want to leave until I've gotten whatever or was it went foreign I didn't know what there was and then I got to be with Gerald Friedman. Who was making a teacher of up. We did the Duchess Amalfi and he cast bill and myself as Borselen for we sat around a table and he tried to teach us what an action was and bill was
what smarter than million he could you couldn't right away and I would write you a long long paragraphs instead of a single word, and I did in J would problem up. I had a mountain of paper and the and then, later on in life, I would be it sometimes house and look on the piano and there were postcard, their postcards scraps of paper backs of envelopes, just lists of words looking for I'm going out of just find that one word the with the voters the dialogue, these, the script of your life that has ever connective tissue who connecting just I worked on it and then my brother in law, whose ASEAN Buddhist monk has phrase in his monastery. That is part of our families. Belief system, which is our actions, Are the ground we walk on yes, and so that that craft of learning to see if I can
figure out an act so yeah wait. Let me see you you say you're, The one thing that you put so much stock in your imagination and idea that it might all be imagination is, is actually the one thing that you have to constantly negotiate with a slow down. because you over think everything everything and over complicated over complicated Yahoo much man be too much Mandy too much man, that's your gift mandy! If they have to untangle your own fucking thoughts at every turn, every fuckin turn. What I mean Richard Harris, I did. I did a thing with Richard Harris years ago and- and I was so that would be with him and he said that he was no longer drinking and I'm sitting a hotel with him for hours. While he's telling you no longer drinking, has a glass one in each hand, and the cigarette needs is so great that you're not printed going more, and he says that in the midst of this you know you don't need the worked so hard.
M m. He was trying to give me everything he had to offer, which was just just show up you know, just maybe just got up and show up but we like but like what I'm feeling when I'm seeing as I relate to you. Is that isn't it this fundamental? I will I don't even want to say: is: jewish not only want to state specifically insecurity, but it's this idea that whatever I'm doing cannot be enough. It cannot be good enough. It cannot be right, it is not correct. Someone else knows how to do a better than me. Who's got the answer. Please give it to me now. That's right! That's right now The clearly some of the key ones, you said is not good enough. So that the mantra not good enough, not enough, not gonna. I would tell this to David Kelly when we working together and he wrote it in. Oh, he would address, but I literally was talking to my image in a window wants to say not gonna get enough that got enough. Unicef come from that comes from my mother, but I laid my mother anymore. Could she was heart? She was
good? You know, Catherine says: hurt people, my wife has this express our people, our people, how people are people sure you know but doesn't mean that doesn't mean the fucking wires were not already crossed. So I I mean I do that too. Like my parents were whatever they were in iv all turned out to be the mess. I am, then you go through years of like what what did they have? That was good. What am I grateful for where they give me one of the gifts inside the horrible things and then forgive them yeah? I forgive them, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to fucking get my brain back yeah, but I believe mark that the mess of our lives is the glory of our our existence because ok, it create the battlefield of our work. Our canvas that weaves our life trying to. humor rise connect who make make alive turn their Harkness into light, turned our guest like that.
Yet worthy the the alchemists of depression that you will you take me away, take my troubles away and who the fuck am I in some way I wouldn't trade. I want in one minute I'll say all I want is peace of mind. The other men and I say, don't take away my troubles even to put their lives, but Bandy I mean how do you do not going away there's no taking away? What do you forget? I mean it's like it's a dream, what he means hundred hundred and eighty seven. and your actual you're, absolutely right. We have these conversations and I would ask you and I have good skin, but I am one hundred and eighty evil with great four hundred eighty. Thank you. But nobody, but I mean this is his game. We play this also. I want to keep my problems Yama. I want a temper them. I want to take with them. I want to keep you I want. I'm gonna hold on to some character, defects in the language of recovery, so so like, but the The truth is that they are not negotiable. How the fuck are they gonna go what you got a brother in law whose monk I mean. What are his struggles? Yeah he's got struggles. He went in there they got, but but, but is it is come
reading when arm in the darkest place too? here a voice and if I can't hear my own memory of their voice upon my doctor, but he'll talk me for thirty seconds and he'll remind me that its because, this then- You are able to do what you do. It's cause how hard work and the other reason I worked so hard in in just the structure of it- is I'm so terrified of going on stage in front of a camera in front of a microphone and bring up. So if I bless my fuckin ass or even if I have the balls to do at Richard, Harris has, which is just don't, do anything just shut the fuck up and show up, even when no matter what I do. I do whatever I've learned in my life and I My best to do it and then I fucked up it's not my fault, whose fault? Is it not mine? mama cause. I worked my ass off. I did everything I know I
Well, I did it poorly and then I fucked up, but I didn't take it for granted right, buddy But this is interesting to me that Richard harrassing because like having just come off a shoot in and trying to figure out ever Every after talking to people like you and many other actors, You know about how they approach things. It seems that at some point that once the work is done, Mandy that you know you of all people seem to have a a you- have to have some belief in your basic talent, correct I don't I don't I'm I'm, I'm I'm probably the most insecure person. I know I like playing people that aren't on tv but I'm probably the most insecure person. I know an uncomfortable with that. this point in my life, I consider it now one of the gifts that have given me my life, but don't you drive
People crazy, absolutely absolutely and That's why I won't call you inside just want to be your friend mark after this it if you can but but but yes, I drive people greater grab. My children creation drug, my wife, crazy one of the tricks it covered is to get the fuck. Away from each other every every now and then any way we can because it has affected your work, like with in in a collaborative environment at times yes yeah, so times to a wonderful degree and sometimes to a very negative, a great degree. absolutely Asia so hard on yourself and in in in the midst of that tornado of self doubt and insecurity
you know it's hard to wrangle that stuff right, so you got it be primarily nape. Some people were well well. I I remember something that I remember, because it's it's a way of being kind myself that Jane so pine, who wrote Sunday in part with George and yeah. Did it and a good friend said to my wife years ago about when I'd be thought of as difficult. he said, let me take up about Mandy. He's only did to himself, right. Yes, other people experience in different ways. But he's only hard on himself as opposed to other people that are doing it to take advantage. Your mother bill he's just doing it to try to make the work great and age, I always hear that echo in my head to know but I'm not I'm not doing to make you look bad where the fuck you over or to hurt someone else, I'm just trying to make the scene live right, binding stand up might, but but the point I am I making from my own experience in in is that you know. A guy knows you there,
a guy. You took the time whether he wanted to or not you know, to understand how you work so but if you enter a situation where that that that is in a given, that a lot of people are gonna, take it personally in they're, gonna, get hurt in agony and then so then you gotta go through the whole apologies process in what were they fire me? They should fire me and the or I shouldn't be with them. If they're not gonna have any kind of sensitivity to who I am. I can't change who I am Hyderabad, what point does it become selfish and maybe a little abusive problem if any point did it affects anyone else that isn't positive, ok points I'm not up? I'm not the absolving myself right or or for giving myself for that Another great thing teacher said to me: I said I can't forgive myself? He said good. I used to think some, as there was a meeting of Judaism, I've so well rock modest compassion and for giving yourself and give up unforgiving myself, because here
tell me one day and I love this. I mean you know you by the teaching you want to buy the deals, but the tac, and he said who are you a deity? Who are you to forgive yourself Marjorie Human being dropped human beings make mistakes is it a nice when you find the guy that validates the worst parts of your character so boldly and I'd pay man suddenly what is not, Finally, I found a guy that justifies the worst Viking think I include myself encourages it. Yeah, I know I just get doesn't get a little exhausting but but it is exhausting, but I'm exhausting. I observe myself exhaust others, but like we been talking for nine hours and hours but but but but you know
oh, I need a guy since that's who sends out such a part of my nature, to exhaust myself, probably to exhaust myself publicly. If I need someone to say: that's. Ok, we No, it's all I get that you, but I've got a friend said something made. It took me years to understand when I call him up a dear friend of mine. HU? I can be ice with and talk about it problems, I'm of recovery geyser, I got you know sobriety bit so that he's one This guy's any when I tell him valleys, wait, you're, my these horrible things that I'm going through my mind. He would ask me like nobody yet now that is it. We know that it's a great question. What I'm getting out of that. Like a guy, I'm doing it over and over again and I'm complaining about it. So I must be getting something out of it? What is that and adjust the that? That's a provocative quite It's like you. What am I getting out of that and do I want that anymore? These are choices right, but if you're a few happened,
you'd, be a painter or or composure or another. doctor or a writer, and You choose one day too, play some one, who is incorrect? rather, I believe light? Hearted seems to laugh away. The world seems to brush off every shoulder every second, no matter what it is, and why are you that will be because you are a loaded with agony, you are, and you have found that the way to counter acted is to be this other way and what becomes the connective universal tissue to the listener? Is I have that act? I know that, but to me than the trick, and what I admire, and the guy I want to have dinner with, is the one who manages it by finding ways to have fun in spite of their nature right well, what about love? What about it
why me what about vulnerability? Whereby me? I understand, agony, I understand the relief of agony. I understand you know: you'll get your getting the laughs and and and- and and turning darkness into light. I understand that, but there is a sort of power to, to being open hearted without fear, yes, may may you live long enough, in spite of the love you ve just lost, to find a friend. another human being on earth to just nothing with we have a saying nothing with you just feel comfort from right. would you not be able to help them in their but to know that they just want to sit and and and be lost with you on the couch and their share in the car
and, and that to me is the definition of love, just comfort and company. And and being lost together here, and you know it is that this fuckin about sex- that we got when we were little and war stuff about sex and all The energy lost over sex, in energy in terms of what you could have done, literally just with that our you know right. behind a calm yourself down self medicate. All I mean, oh, my God, You know it's just insane the whole world over over this kind of stuff genius people, you know who could who could solve the world's problems politically scientifically are ostracize, because they they they. They did to calm themselves down by masturbating What does it masturbate?
night as I am I'm a proud of their daily masturbate or for years. I've just take in a break began getting older than trade down there twice a week. But you know it's important I've. I've. I've always thought that that is built in through leaving and it's a gift it. The many gifts that how sham and get an end it is great at times what about Is it an added time gives it. The defining factor is the definition of love. No. Now and in his mate you're, always somebody might by a friend of mine, said to me said: if you masturbate a lot like gaily your primary sexual partners, you, I am I read this books, appearance which one sapiens now
so it's like. You know five, eight hundred page book, I dont know what it is not right. Now you just now. I know I've, never read it by a great historian. Who does you know, does us over? those billions of years. Did you really yes into the formation mankind at some and then I'm reading this thing because I really want to see what's happening and he takes it into. The present is gone all through the timetable of existence. And how stadiums came to be what they are and what they ve done. And then the last ten chapters virtually this guy's about atheist by the way but the last ten chapters really are saying in my humble opinion, and I'm not the wisest greatest reader in the world, but is that you cannot find happiness and I hated that book from last ten chapters, and I really read that book and loved a lot of it. But I hated that lets you make that kind of effort garner your audience and you have a successful, but that's what you're,
offering us at the end that all of us who are looking for peace and happiness, you're, gonna, say and in your you know, huge mind that that's away still go fuck you see in any proves this point, see what he did. You look. What you did you because a correct No, I mean I talk to somebody recently said that most animals, you know you that you were designed to think negative. We had feared and in protection, so That's one of the things we ve had to reconfigure as conscious sentient animals. You know is yet to read. That but that's what we're talking about here that the challenge at serbian document, the whole time I mean fear, I'm so exhausted from being Tarifa, people. People will say to me, you know I have the public speaker. I gotta make a speech. What I do, can you help me, and I say to them in all shake SH
Let your leg shake your arm shake let your lips shakes. When you have you, no let prayers rolled down your eyes. Have you ever walked away from some one in that condition in front of your eyes tat. You know people will mean empty and those that don't just the great just hope they walk away quicker. Why me, I think if you're devising guy, you gonna give some sort of corporate presentation to squander cry you. Why lovely first of all, you ve got him on the palm of your hand. Secondly, they're going to want to pay, it is shut the fuck up and get to the sky help this guy. This gardens healthy, got it gather, give em a billion dollars about him, build it. So you did like the show like you, the homeland, show you did for a long time. Right approximately ten years from Hell Oda to the final goodbye, but it was eight seasons, but we joy at any moment jointly, I just loved it. I truly loved it an unarmed,
and saw me levels the people involved, first and foremost, the character of the material, the relationships with the intelligence community that we formed in terms of our research systems and the relationships that I made with those people long term. In many cases, the connective the connective nature, of of my being to a global understanding of of system open and needing attention Pedro, aiding reforms, you politically to some degree collectively it gave me a platform, unlike other part of my career, it it it's I did my relationship with the International Rescue Committee and helping refugees be listened to and should be paid to them and then, you know, because of all of that, it literally if it's all the ripple from that whole thing because of the platform we made from,
and I made the refugee thing. I never had social media, we started it for refugee, access to the International Fishing Committee, then my son, who always is taken out a cell phone. You know filming family things, you know takes a family. We have Catherine I after we have a fight on our anniversary, so as you know. This was really kind of we can I put that on your social media. I said I don't know how to do that. I have some, it doesn't forming. He says I can do it and he does and it goes well and then He starts doing that at the time when the pandemic start springing smile, the people, so we were just the hired idiot parents. We just answers questions on the instant Graham, yet we do nothing except he answering Giddings questions and he's putting the stuff out there and then you know who George Floyd is murdered, so we don't shift it's not appropriate to do that. So we shift into wellness for black lives matter and that moment, but in the back of our minds a minute, this thing started catching we thought. If we could grow this platform, we can maybe help get out the boat. You know recipe
when I- and we were a little part of that effort- and you know those Europe from in all of those things from being in a television show me yeah it's interesting, though, that that you as a progressive, thoughtful, creative jus guy. That your daddy. It feels like it took me a while to get on board with the Social activism ha. oh, no, no, not at all I've been. It was my wife a brought us on board early and social activism in terms of social media wagon. Burke active sensor, really ideal Since I began doing sallow concerts, I'm a fan of Theodora Cow, I I know him, I didn't with him. Are you my father loved him beautiful man, I'm glad I got to be on a stage with one
are you with you weren't you act as if things like they're there there is, there is some connective tissue there. The idea, I'm I'm I'm certainly one of those guys of regeneration, and Are you asking me to sinewy at his song is that we now know that now I'd worry at night. It did you. Like they did, you have to learn Yiddish. I did I mean I particularly know the words every word I sing, but I I learned to appoint through the lyrics then I went to Germany and on more than one occasion, but I go to german movie and find my way around really what's. Your favorite wages is under german base, my every year, a song, I think, is the one my dad sang the other one by dancing, never say much, but was a young, maybe amassing merrily the diverse, thus made love deepen
This made Latvia Laploshka I've been muslin them should result. In may my mission, they took in Smith Necessity do they was made circles on and it's about, Mamma Mamma? What do you want? What do you want? my daughter. What do you want? You're? Not happy. Do you want a parachute. No Mamma! You don't understand ever understand you want to know that's no Mamma! You don't understand you never understand. Do you want a boyfriend? Yes, Mamma! You understand you away. subject and my used to sing that. So when I learned all this this music. That was the one that matter to me. Yeah. I know that my dad's way so does there spoken in the house only sacred language and providing one one gram. Cecilia came over because she never learned how to write very well or speak English and she would. Please go in the basement with my father. Could she didn't want my sister myself to see how long it took her to sign the checks my grandparents used to speak when they do want is to understand what they were saying that's amazing. So when you do these things
is how many people are left of the generation that that is provocative, like that, that's it yet astounding how Yiddish has grown through, Vienna and different organizations that have the brought in with the language who was tried to have been decimated, attempting to be decimated completely back to life their camps there. They just did to my friends that folks be Did this yiddish fiddler on the roof? It was one of the most x ray Many things you know all of us have seen figure on the roof and one direction or another. This was the definition of how it should have been seen and it with unbelievably power and John Grey directed it in that had a simplicity. There was also like a high school production, but clause of the connective tissue two of the sounds of a language, and I remember when we recorded it how many of the same musicians, Africa, american musicians, asian musicians, who worked on me,
most of my other recordings in New York, pseudo musicians and the african american and asian musicians came up afterwards asset. We just Don't you know we worked on all your albums. This is the most powerful experience we ve ever had and we couldn't understand a single word and Emily I started to perform it and Catholic. It's a nuns and new, Irishman would come back and say. Thank you. Look. I learned what meaning of this was I just happened to be a Jew who connected to my heritage is language. The lesson was whatever you come from, whatever the languages of your ancestors take a walk in it. Take a bath let a wash over you Joe try to understand just just drink it, and let it wash you and theirs something about it. It's some! It's one of great things. That's unexplainable, Well yeah, it's like that. It's right, the the idea of centuries.
Of prayer, there's like a groove there, that is a? If not this tradition. It's not legacy, it's it's almost genetic it's a language spoken centuries yes and went: tap into it. It makes you feel connected yeah. I mean it So to me the word James, I put it in Sunday in part with George, so my character. of George Surat when I thirty one or two years old. I think. Maybe I was thirty four repeated this week. Over and over again through the play, connect George Connect and it- came the word I realized of my existence and it's the only words if I have a tombstone which I am not dealing with, because I I can't deal with any of that. Saddam
I'm sure I'll check out when the time comes in its my children's problem or my forever left- and I expect the know about- I don't want to Know- I want to know I want to be put in a box. I dont want, and we know that they're gonna than a good cook me in an oven I don't Gonna be in a mud, hole. I dont want any possibility that he and so I don't wanna know but dumb. But if there is, the tombstone I wanted to say he tried to connect. You do- and I think that, like as you're saying this sat there, the heart, for you that that the the essential dread must come those Mama three feel disconnected imagine the most painful morons. Both personally there, with my children are wife, when I can't communicate, were I over communicate or I'm over emotional are over sensitive. Blow the moment or I'm on stage, and I I just missed it or did too much or or could cover,
quick enough for was too young to know how to recover. I was in great pain and still am to this day at times, particularly, with family, because I d Get that moment back yet yet with those who love you. You do get another try as soon as you knock on the door. They will. Open it you're, the one who closes it you're busy- beat the shit out of some in the room it out yourself, and I have at my two sons and my wife, Catherine for forty two years between Catherine and the boys. constantly love me, in spite of it all, is pretty overwhelming yeah? Thank God. Yeah Elsa Ion he did fuck that up good for you, I'm lucky guy if you knew more than the line was apparently I think
so, but they also knew that it's gonna take dad go to the city? dad clear, may come back, not back. You may not come back for weak it always happened around my birthday in Thanksgiving what your days apart, always it's, I can't handle something about it and I usually check out last dear, I went to got a new Orleans because I've but he said something I got upset pack, my back one till the Guardia. Got on the airplane, then the Thing happened on the airplane and at that moment I felt better, and I thought I don't need legal norms so I said the stewardess. Can I please get off the airplane? I need to get off the airplane. There was some sort of problem I gotta get off, thereby made it like a little crazy yeah. They opened the door they let me off. I got how can a cab? I went back to the country as animal, so
Are we going to refer to see in New Orleans? So so you, Finally, the depression comes at certain times. At times, yes, but it never. I can never do identify the trigger. It comes out of nowhere literal, ok, you literally have to go away for a few days yeah. I just have to know that I can escape then that I have an alternative to being confined. I can find meaning if it's with my wife that you have to beat the to my wife. that my darling, you to be around me. I don't want to suppose me tee. I dont want My kids have to be exposed to my darkness and I dunno I can get away and as one and everybody is fine. I mean Gideon my youngest one hears He had a better men running, he taught the rest of the family, so every thanks giving and and Christmas
the family members of the monk said the monastery in upstate New York. My brother lies its family died and Christmas and new year So one so one day in a bad way. We drive a family up. There were in the parking lot and everybody. Those dancing in a dark spot and Gideon. outside and he's about animal? Maybe it is sixty, maybe and made me and then he said, if you can't get it together, don't come in, and I didn't and I stood in the car for about an hour, but but he was he's the clearest on he's the only one in the family that doesn't try to fix me. Yeah, I mean I grew up with a father with depression and eighty nine. I know the the the store we have a fighting for you know. Madison Oh, I had fifteen years of five different medicines at a time. At one point, I was on stage in new york- do in my one one. My think I found time show twenty minutes the concert,
and- and I went up because of what some lyric did we added to my head, Can I stopped and ice the whole thing over again from the beginning. The end and a friend of mine said you can never do that again and I thought of my thoughts. Let me take them out. Do it again, if I need to do it again when I went home and I took them, Glass bottle of pills. I had not put him in the toilet an ice, cause. I tried to get off those pills many times over the years, and I preface by saying Some people need medication and its important, but for me, most of them all the medications put their fighting part- my brain to sleep. then I needed every cellular opportunity to, but to stay, focused and alive and battle the darkness. So I would try many times to get off it with. You know lying to the doctors. not taking it only amateurs and
and like clockwork. You know to examine what I crash call the doktor have taken again, but that night I put but then the toilet, my said never again an hour. I'd rather not be here, then feel chained. To this I can't do it anymore. And it was the moment when I was ready and I was not yeah you know, you ever prescribed the medication sure I can. The other thing that everybody probably knows is there are cycle pharmacologists out there that should be put in prison that that give you medications. They don't know that should not be giving you them yeah well yeah I as is its all speculative, it turns out, look I really I'll repeat the preface some People really need time to have certain medications, absolute job. take somewhere to some actor on a podcast you know Listening to what he said and think is right for you: what's right, free Who is what's right for you not what I say
we have to do is in a music today, just them I heard beginning of your podcast, where, with the one, oh yeah, Lynn and a little bit of music, that there was in there, that's all the music I heard who and what we do listen to music every day now I dont by kids, Gideon, if my son getting was here, he would tell you he would interrupt and go. My father doesn't like listening to music because, and I think, partly because music is, is, I love doing it my work? but it's not where I relax and where do you relax? I will Ex taking walks, and I honestly on my walk, I run a concert Oh I'll, run an hour and a half with the material of Gregson singing like images about this loudly and clearly point ones. oh yeah, a real ETA and that's what I do.
Occasionally I do I'll listen, mauler or listen to my son's recordings. Well, listen to Debbie Friedman it because it's just an ok I'm from me, but in general, There is so much noise in my head mark we are so much noise that I love quiet. And my wife loves more noise and more noise and she's, and we ve learned that I need quiet. I read a book one somebody gave me called quiet by. I forget the woman wrote it and it's about introspective people and you'd, never When people talk to me- or you see me on some fucking interview, I'd sometimes watch myself talking to something person like yourself or, and I turned in my wife and I'll go. I don't know how anyone could tolerate me. It's just that. I'm the desperate to get away from this work and televisions, I can't watch him anymore, myself, an anthem. The book is about people,
that you'd, never guess we're introvert, so it made me realize that in many ways, even though I do what I do that I am an introvert and some of the people that are described as interviews its extraordinary book for people No, I mean I mean it used to be at Harvard and stuff they used to say to you. That was course is about how you had to be an extra effort to have her existence oh yeah, what so it's like it comes back to Robin. You know who would probably like one of the most introverted people have ever met here and there he put on the thing. It's almost like a protective magic trick. You ok, thank you. I'm gonna go be quiet, but when you see when you would You would experience with Robin yeah. It was undefinable. Almost it was so huge Lee different from, one thing to the other when he turned it on oh yeah yeah. I go it others,
others on your honour would understand one SEC, You can barely look in the eye and the next year, like holy shit, all learn. An amusement park is great. Talk, anybody feel good. I do. feel good in its wonderful talking to you in the and I want to leave you and whoever's listening with with one. Why have I had a father's group when the kids were in starting in the priest beyond these for fathers and mothers became friends, and then we had life together. All the time here, holidays and one of the dance passed away from melanoma on the dear friend of mine may mark carrying ten and I loved him dear, and he kept them still alive. For the moment when Catherine and I heard that it was time and we ran back from Colorado where we were visiting people and we made it. To his room, and he asked the nurse for a cup of morphine and took the morphing struggle to get himself up in bed, and he looked at these two lunatic,
my wife and myself- and he said the most challenging words about time- have fun and many laid down and about a day later he was he left us. But he knew that that was the job at hand. He knew it the average to climb mid the same time and how you do it I'm doing better than I ve ever done in my life, and then that's why I love getting older. I'm not crazy about the knees and all the things that go with with the disease, I'm the body parts I love getting older for just the the. Time, live the in the things that provide that I now have learned to ignore the Jackie. It all goes away, nothing that important and you didn't. You can't can't get over. How will then you are ready to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and the next minute you
can't even remember why. So maybe that's that, maybe that's your version of self forgiveness, you're, forgetting and my wife will say I wish I had your memory, which is yeah, I remember nothing. It's a gift. mandates like that. Yes, I think so can I? Where are you? I wish you fun and and- and I wish you to have the your loved ones in your mind and heart all your days, you you too, and I say in a similar, says Warrens Eve on, I think once said, enjoy every sandwich, Will it will would you care what is your favorite sandwich? That's a good question. I love like I love a very moist bridge get sandwich jewish style brisket. While we're pretty close, I would of cold meat. Loaf. Sliced will master
let's thicker, iceberg, Gladys, honor, I'm no talk, that's nice like like a meal off your mom made. Some just made. Love yeah. I like I liked it the daily meets, but not that not much on it, just them that the dark mustard, oh yeah, it's too much for me the dark mustard. I know no good, I'm a French. His yellow oh really are some on the simple man we can. We can. I can live with that. I think we can work with our choices or take areas You do our best, all right! I was Mandy Patinkin, you can go see his stuff from home. When did princess bride. The records that plays you can see. I don't know, maybe it's available not sure where they Sunday george- I don't know, I don't know
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where's the monkey with love
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Transcript generated on 2021-01-07.