Hey folks. Today's episode is sponsored by square space from web. it's an online stores to marketing tools and analytics scores base is, if the all, in one platform, for you to build a beautiful online presence for whatever you can dream up their know. How These are price hikes in all web. That's your optimized for mobile, and it's so simple start with a design, template and use, drag and drop tools to make it your own head discourteous based, I com, Swash, w idea for a free trial and when you are ready to launch used the offer code, w e f to save ten percent off your first purchase, aright Ok done deal done deal all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the mechanics, what the fuck's theirs

what's happening. I marked Mare- and this is my podcast are you here, David. You company is on the show today. Ok, he's you know, from the exiles in California occasion but is also a musician and he's an author and he's got a new novel out. It's called truly like lightning It's an amazing conversation. If you listen regularly you'll find in I know, there's just because I'm doing it that a lot of the interviews during the plague have been euro and good and connected in a way that is surprised and an actually in some cases deep more and better than it had. I done them person a person live here in the in the garage which is below give me when we chose to start doing zoom, because we had no choice like everybody else or figure. We had some platform to make this work. It was big deal because we have really, good by this

person interview thing since the beginning of the show it a big transition and Brandon and I were nervous But oddly, what's happened is We ve got a lot of guests that we probably wouldn't have gotten before and I couldn't quite figure out? Why so many things were going so well or that they were more trusting and connecting deeper in a way is. There is a lot of things that are happening. There's a lot of defences already down. There's a couple of things happening. When you don't, when you don't have a celebrity or an actor were an artist. Who has its roots in the middle of a day, driving around doing tv hits doing radio spots. Some of them travelling with hair stylus or try figure out how to get here or just dealing with traffic all that stuff. you know what has to shed when they get in here on the MIKE and see whose houses, what's going on in its grip,

it's real. It happens in a moment, but these things the new ones, happened in the moment to, but what I started to notice differently was at- and I sort of thought about this- Is it not that they're coming in from the other room of their house or wherever their staying they're, just the other setting up in their living room or they're, just walking down their hall, so they may not even be wearing pants. I dont know But what I am saying is that all the sort of build up of shields defences and just dealing with it, day of work, not there So that's one part of it. The comfort factor that therein a place if they're, already comfortable I'd, have to make them comfortable. and the other thing is, I think a lot of people are starved for connection. I dont,

like some people have a better relationship with the parents. I dont dumb face time with my mother, face time of my brother. I dont zoom with anybody. There's no family zooms going on the always zooming I'm doing is from my pocket. and there's a few people I still see in person, but I think a lot of people, even if their seeing people on Zuma in their orbit family, Most people are not having the casual conversations that they use to her or just having the comfort of regular life, so I think a lot of times like would do Coveney, because we are amazing conversation and I think it was just cause he's. Our guy? I think a lot of people talk to him like we talked or that he assumes they will. I think I'm smart, but I can keep up baby, a lot of people just our having conversations in general, so the I've combination of them already being comfortable where they are and the fact that the people, are talking to people as much as you do not out in the world much there. There will start

for connection The combination of those two leads to you know what I've been some fairly amazing conversations on this show and you come Please no different it It's really good, one that you're gonna. since you shortly. Why do people are not having a great time during this play it. Obviously, none of us are having a great time we're adapting, but if you're, having trouble like a meeting. Your goals are difficult, with relationships or trouble, sleeping or or or fear your feelings dressed or depressed, better help is available? Better help? for secure online professional councillors who can listen and help it simply just fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and better helpful match you with your own licensed professional therapist, then start you negating an under forty eight hours login to your account any time and send unlimited messages to your council. You can schedule weekly video or phone sessions

We can you share as confidential. This is a more affordable option than traditional offline counselling and why financial aid is available. I can tell you experience? It really helps to talk to someone, there's no shame in it and it really can improve your health. W Tia, Mark Mariners is sponsored by better help in our listeners, get ten percent off their first month of online and therapy when they visit better health dot com. So w E F visit, better hd, lp dot com, so Ash W e f enjoying the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of experienced better help professional, an issue that is true I gotta be Icewave These conversations does not with a therapist. I'm not a therapist, I'm just kind of shifting gears here, too subway. But I gotta tell you just talking to other people, even if the aid if its people, I don't know, my guy interviewed who died of? U S weak SAM, Neil or even,

The company conversation that you're about here just a canoe actual somebody just to unload a little bit, relax get into their life. What's going on with you, how you doing tell me about your wife, my Buddy SAM lips, I'd every night. Ask him about his kids. You know it we want were built to do and you should keep doing it goes Sometimes a matter my fucking mind, and I don't know what the fuck is going to happen or how am I will give him or home even be able to talk to somebody else or what about her? What are they like or what the fuck is going to happen, and God dammit? Why am I even doing this to begin with and then if a conversation with em within five minutes. Of talking to somebody a stranger. I feel better. That's what people do man, This is not the time just get lost in rabbit holes of buying things you don't need, although it is fun and our economy relies on I'll. Take that back, please by a lot of stuff. You don't need but help people

give the charity do it yet you do whatever you gotta do to make it, you'll engage argued doing something, but that I guess my point is talk to people You can do that better health thing, but also talk to your friends. Try to talk to your family always forget because there's some. then about. I've learned that I like to isolate. I didn't realize it, but I'm ok by myself. In some days it sort of I'd rather sit at home and fuels for myself. For no reason then engage you feel like somehow my life, you know guide deal. They held everyone's life got derailed, and everything is amplified now when we have. This time in this plague is upon us and fear and an intention and anxiety politically. In financial. You that every little thing- that if it would have just happened in ordinary life, would have been hunting, but it would have- folded into the flow of ordinary life. Now everything is

provide, and you can fully process everything. all the bad should all the good ship it happens to you. You can run fuckin taken in it really lands tragedy. Joyce appreciation, horror, man, you can take a few days with any of that really If I can turn on it and I'm sure I have to stay in the light people try. To stay in the light. No one wants to keep their home and family safe, whether it's from a break in a fire, flooding or medical emergency. Simply safe home security delivers award, winning twenty four seven protection with simply safe. You don't just get an arsenal of cameras and sensors. You get the best professional monitors in the business they ve at your back day and night, ready to send emergency responders. When you need a most straight to your door and the thing we live

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If that interests you it helps me out David companies but truly like lightning, out tomorrow February. Second- and I tell them might. I didn't read it, but I looked over at night. The cunning got us. and submit a little bit, but I told them You know they were. There is everything we could talk about, but you yet that, wherever you get books, a third album coming out music, as soon as already released a single from conveying on the tracks, he can check that out on Youtube and I M here to talk about a lot of stuff visit. Your talk, folks to greater This is me and gave it to cover, or you act David really here I was. I wasn't New York until Saturday. I came out here. Gonna shoot a couple things:

all over the world which is crazy, done any shooting in the plague yeah I did or issue about four or five days on a movie, and it was. It was odd. You know as you know, you want Canada a loose feeling and said, you know you just to get used to this kind of stilted masked That's gone mask off. I know I shot a movie for twelve days and it it's definitely bizarre screws, your hair. It's like back and for an active, no hair face. You know you got the mask on call time Am I right before you talk? You take it off. We able, focus yeah. I was in fact it created, moreover, special space. We asked for just that

a moment of performance on that day. I prefer it and by any stretch here, sir, certainly you know you just felt like. Ok, there's this little magic circle here, we're just gonna. Do we need to do a deal that we can do so sporting and wiping going on everywhere knows that nevertheless very white hands. Always dry. I don't like my hands, are ever gonna, be the same in all. I promise they out for for the day, I'm gonna shoot next week in its not a beard is not mass friendly. I don't know why you do now, now, there's virus can just sneak right around through the whiskers gap. this was uncomfortable. Don't you, nothing comfortable about any of the other, the smoke in place, but the flute when I flew on Saturday. Trouble. My asked quadruple masked out my guide. If we commercial, I did

I've had covered surf pogrom, I'm kind of immune right. Now I mean I have it. I had an almost Roma. because I'm told I'm pretty good for another. three weeks anyway, I really am it yeah how bad they have one word the symptoms. What happened? Well since you ass my symptoms, I will tell my symptoms attained you. I was an astonishing diarrhoea greatly while some way, I didn't feel no. You didn't big because that's not the symptom that people simply focus on you can still wreathed with diarrhea, ass. You can, and you know it didn't think I have it. I ride out. I've got food poisoning soaring, complicate, went by, and I thought okay through poisonous, usually done in a day. So then I got tested and sure enough. I had it

and then you will know that I mean was bad, but it wasn't. Certainly nothing like I've heard yet, seems like it's a unique experience for everybody who gets it and, like my uncle and my aunt to earn their seventies. They got it. He was I heard for a week and couldn't really do anything. She had a head call. Then it was over right. You I've not talk to the the diarrhoea people you're one, the diary of people, Precisely how we like to be known. The addictive covered diarrhoea clerk crew have started a support group did, but why? first breathing all that ok taste sensor, tat. S manner that went away what I had fatigue. I had had a very weird kind of muscle, powerlessness and my legs are just fell like the The way I would describe it is- and this is common

ITALY made up again. Remember I'm I'm not a doktor yeah. We're just felt like something my body had that had never seen before, and it was true, to throw all these symptoms at me. He had learned something was backed up with it. It didn't they didn't like make any sense. They they didn't think connected, so didn't feel like anything you'd had before all at once, right advertising way to look at it. So it's like your bodies right well, this is new. Let's try to fight and just giving diarrhoea was ratified. It lets. Let's alert this body here that that their downturn will understand is gone. Us we're just gonna, make odd things her for a while and sleeping get his attention Oh, you got. You got like a joint pain and stuff what you said that always listen legs. Is that weird failure not having my legs underneath me? Well? Well, it's you! lucky, it sounds like I did. I got Did you have any visions? Did you have any moment, So like fuck, this is it

I guess I was maybe a little afraid at first ass. I didn't know I didn't know what the intense he was gonna, be man I was more focused in I had seen my my kids I'd seen my daughter, I see my son. My daughter has preexisting one condition, so I was really I was just here. but I had an infected them down once that pass, which was like five or six days into mine me. I'm I was really just focusing on the map in the beginning. So by then it was over Did you re able to track it like where you got it? Not that it matters when you in you Yours go right. I'm a guy find the guy you he asked needs you fuck. Now you pay No is weird because I'm really careful I wasn't New York had, I hadn't travel so I got into Europe and yet

we again, maybe it's over now, really no hot! No like event. That's a scary thing to me as, like I've gone, I'm doing end. Ninety five mask I gotta go out with a plastic shield, a united. Now now the I've gotten this far, without getting it now. The vaccines or in truck somewhere and I I just have this horrible fear of like if I get it in the next couple months and we get you fucking kidding me so all that work. Why not just get it at the beginning? Exactly I can answer that. I gave us because I was scared and terrifying. Careful when I go to I can t I got this, but now there's a version out here. That is highly Dante every one in people get in the way they talk about it like one in three people. It's almost like we're trying to get it here. We're getting out of here? and heard immunity guy that's gonna die, don't have that would just works on a county level. Well, there's

calling the herd is the problem he had called her to get to the heart and meanwhile that that seems to be happening and that's the sad part about the whole thing so you're out. here too, to work for industry. Five days research. There is not ideal array shoot about six months ago, but I'm going to I'm going to work. before it has on an India when I'm gonna work Netflix he shall and then I'm going. I am, I gonna go to London and shooting movies, My chasing that govern hotspots is good for you, Mary. I mean they pride. No, they ve already had a debate. Let's higher it's in your agents. Like that's other pitching you now work, you might not be right for the parties already had the covert. So I'm not on an insurance level is the best choice you can make yet

is to be. You know what I'm sorry. I was that they were asked for like special skills sitting on the back of your head and I'd always lie, but like horse riding juggling fencing yet climates, no undue any that ship, but now up just put had called I'm good to go up. have a place out here. Yeah yeah, do that's nice. I love Ella. Actually, you do right, There is a view. I guess it's like a kid. This whole I mean I'm kind of delusional answers, I'm not delusion onto so detached. Now, it's hard to remember what things used to be like, I can imagine what New York is like issues like this weird ghost town right was look like ghost town. You know because I think at this point in the pandemic, people are, are there fed up and Austrian born in their they're kind of inching back into into. Their normal ways of moving around, so it's definitely quiet

In our view, the others no surmount activity or anything like that, but people out there are people out people tat out out here and in our aid seems like people give zero fox Femmina you go places like the there's traffic again Adena, whatever one's doing you know, oh hiking out here and try to dodge the mask was Armenians. Let's not single out and ethnic. Remember, I'm sorry, The mass of people in my neighborhood, which has the high armenian population. I thank them. It's just human nature. It's been as well ass the year I says yeah yeah yeah people people are ready to die there ready to die a fortune thanks, but people can't be vigilant. This law is not in our nature, stay on guard. For that long, I think were built to be on guard for short spurts. Yeah and we enjoy entertainment needing out. I mean that's the problem, so we now I've got the book.

I worked at the book. I couldn't. I can read the whole book. That is how I am no longer know. I read some things yeah like truly like lightning. Now, when you start a novel cause, our know how many people know use a novice and know how People now you has as a musician, and I have five bye bye. now. People know you, as the guy on the x files, most and income for an occasion? And what are you know, but this your fourth novel yeah, three, I mean you're busy guy, you don't stop doing shit, no, no and when write a book about a guy who's in like what was the beginning of this book. The guys are Mormon, so we just your life where you obsessed with Mormonism and then decided. I want to learn more about that and I'm going to set my guy they're, not at all the beginnings of this story are from like

twenty years ago. Actually, what I was doing the x files you, I had written air that episode that what kind of based on a Ganem not base. but have used this Gonna Mark Hoffman as an inspiration to Mark argument was a mormon forger. And end the murderer and end of Amr actually ended up being his imprisonment and he key forged a Joseph Smith's letters. I gotta remember this one much here I can lay night, is gonna, get right right, so I was kind of captivated by this story because Hoffman well of the make the brilliant thing he did was he There are rumours writings of Joseph Smith as you can imagine not a lot survives, but there are rumours of of of of like writings that deal with fringe beliefs in shirt,

so what happened did was when he was forging these Joseph Smith writings he would forged like the most controversial most non. Now fundamentalist, Mormon strains yeah into these things. Knowing that the church she wasn't trying to sell it to collectors right, you want to sell to the Church who would buy to suppress it, who advised to keep quiet clever. So here, this amazing scam, going on very specific, thick and very, very small audience for the scant henrietta probably big money. The elders, where is it gives a good angle yeah. So I kind of translate that into an ex far where I I wrote about a m, a sixties, radical who it who had started forging Jesus Christ. It's kind of lost gospel, right in which Jesus took a wife and had sex with women, as you know, was more of a human than he is

in traditional, isn't that the last temptation of Christ yeah. Well, you know I am guilty of. Forgery, maybe maybe just influence night like that the book that I love in a movie that I was certainly were and so I wrote, this exe file that was gonna based on this guy, who believed he became the first thing about Hoffman is when he wrote answer Joseph Smith, He believed that he was, but he was dead. the Smith, so he didn't think there actually forgeries and the end and in so, if you think about the credibility of Joseph Smith, I mean we, you know whoever decides to believe what he wrote about the golden plates him. Where the bad, whatever those that are, I mean it seems like there's a it seems I Joseph Smith of all people be flattered. That Hoffman took it upon himself to death. It creates a more bullshit and his name right. So so

had. I had always strains in my mind from that time: I'd never dress the Mormon aspect of it, but I have addressed it through a Jesus Christ aspect of it and there was also this this sentiment, or even out of you, know anything about history Mormonism, but in order to joy, Statehood Unita, which was Mormon in late? Eighteen, hundreds had to not denounce, but set aside polygamy and this thing called blood atonement, otherwise you know every day. American union wouldn't allow them and so long behold, Brigham Young said I you know we don't really practice that stuff anymore and they join the union so It was like a man. It was blotted Tom had much time while ass. That's the thing this is how I started getting into the story or the story started taking shape. In my mind, blunt

is this idea that there are sense that a man can commit that are beyond the atoning blood of Christ? Now the beauty of the christian sacrifices that if, choose forget its all inclusive was where I thought, but why not not in this this bloody Tom, it says and I'm sure it's some kind of a man usually with the murderers state of mind and play intent. So there certain kinds of murder that you have to be kept. in return for this isn't in the mornin religion or in Christianity. The Mormons is aimed at a fringe Mormon believe, are housed capital punishment, so as I go well blogger com, it is an excellent driver of a story in obligatory as an excellent. section VI either either administering it or running from it both you know I or decided or deciding in my case is father and son, the Father is looking at his son thinking. Do I

in order to save my son. So do I have to kill him Oh, I was like wow. This is kind of stuff. I really like thinking about like writing about, and I thought if I could write a tent. Oh, where novel them does you're, not a religious now but all but but around around these issues and used were found, I need a picture of the middle of the book is, is kind of comedic because you have these three kids who have been raised and I gotTa Devita, which is what they call. A compound in the desert haven't seen any other humans, their whole life. They basically lived in this bubble and they get taken out and put an end to put an end to Rancho Cook among Highschool, so the middle was very fish out of water culture in a cultural innocence trying to survive. the Weirdo Mormon KIDS yeah exactly right, sir, I don't know that answers your question, but but it's like I do my

it is then Mormonism was then driven by my knowledge of these strain. Is within it? I really like the idea that you know that they had pushed aside these. You know and not anti american, but on You know things that America couldn't handle. I polygamy or blood atonement in order to join the union and then aids It was a golden hair Abloom at Yale, whereas a gradual guy ha brilliant. I mean just the most brilliant mind. I've ever been around what we are being book, the anxiety about flows, how'd, you read, bring him in your mind. He had written about Jesus met. Then he called them in an American JANUS like what full justice is one of the great hucksters. Well, yes, but I read bloom on Joseph Smith and in for my bark and net bloom talks, about Smith S.

You know his whole anxiety about once blame is about being belated like here. We are you and me we have come in the twenty first century. Is a lot of genius behind us yams, not a lot of stuff. We can say or do that's new. We have that anxiety of influence. We can't we can't be better than are better than the people came before it's very difficult, but so does that's that's a condition, not a fact. That's a condition: psychological condemned rain litter. Very condition for blue right legendary. slash cycle right, and so Oh what he says about John Smith. Is you know it? it's a man there latter day, Saints Smith Smith is taking this backwards. Looking region. Christianity, which has been based on something would happen, two thousand years ago. Ryanair. and he sang ownership still happening right now. We can see

it's very american. It's like now, you know you're a goddamn, oh god we're all gods were saints. Miracles are still happening. We can move Jesus to the states. He's he's our guy. It's an American. No, I like the idea of being an american phenomenon, but I think what your dressing then, is that the notion that, even though Brigham Young said where you were on board with the boy, part of the union, but you see worry. We ve got our own code. And we ve, got our own laws. and we're gonna, let you know interesting circles. There are other of its historical back, but there's been heavy rumours that. The Smith or Brigham Young that had tried to negotiate with a foreign country while they were remove the charge there like Eeyore yeah, I don't know just doing negotiations, not allowing the american government right right. You know it is salt. Lake City is one of the only you no kind of functioning theocracies in in end in this

I would say the only one in this country but it is that I mean you go to that town you're like they were in it. This is how this is here That was my fear when I, when I had when I have like the Bay Cloud of this novel idea, my own about a year ago, I go fuck. You don't have to gotta. You turn up, I guess you'd others like. If I wonder if I want to know what it looks like it feels like it sounds like yeah go there for some months really get the lay of the land and am it's nice there, I'm sure it's beautiful, but I'm uneasy. I, like my home and allay, sounds like I set out like the first First, the fields of research- and I am very, very lazy and dont like research, but I know it's necessary sigh I contacted the sky was working with me for me and I said that just find me pockets of Mormonism throughout the country. And let me know where they are and

how valuable the land is where they are buying that is a land grab book to there's a capitalist land grab happening underneath did you got a new Mexico? I think a lot of them are down and silver city. Aren't they yeah. I got this this document back. There was fascinating, so there was still a pocket: six real pockets Mormonism all over the country, but they fucking. Founded San Bernardino, Mormons founded said, dinner's like smile. I write my only by God. too lazy to go to Utah, which is our plane ride. But now just drive December Nadine. Well that's interesting. So, like I get the feeling, now that this was D. This was the this was the gulf that this what you wanted to do, which right o,

Yeah, I don't really have a go. I mean I was. That was the house. The idea would you grow out of New York City? and was your data academical? now my dad was here in parliament. Jewish Germany. The agency are really that yeah, you more capacity I don't really know I'm in here like a ninety five job. I believe I believe he was in public relations. They call it what it. What did that What did the american jewish community? Where do they do? I met my note I member seeing the agency as a Jew. I know I know the day a J C. I know those letters, but what what is there What is their add? Go I wish I could. our exactly gets you my dad dahlia, but there is, His is no longer with us, but I don't really know I was young. I can only have an office in Midtown eighty, it's funny about that, when their dad it's I go. The office and I can play with the staple, but I don't know

that's all. I remember, and he wrote he wrote letters features. I know that he wrote He was a writer he's gonna work. We brought up jus issue. He was a total cultural, Jus I'd say not a religious to see your lightly. and your mom's jewish or know my mother, my mother's, a small fishing village in Scotland. How did tat happen? It was an unholy an unholy match, but how did they find? each other yeah in Europe after the war, my dad was in Rome and personnel. Both teaching bullets anguish that really in their teaching. English is a second language to be is the first woman, probably first per some in her family to ever attend college. She got out of there. I mean God bless her she's, a strong, strong person. She value, education and left and was

I know what she's doing you're up. She was out there alone not around and she met my dad and there they came. many a charming Jew, yeah any he brought her back to New York, saying basically I gotta say goodbye to my parents. You know we're gonna move to London. I think he wanted to raise kids in London, but you didn't know. Is well enough to know that he was never leave his mouth garter So does that mean that you have family in Scotland and do you go there? Then it's got a few times I have killed. I have my own tartan to have now tartan killed So your official without that means that you kid I give you, go you ready to a yeah. You can hang out with the fellas I guess I don't know, but I feel very much that max though I feel very much a mix of of. As I said, cultural

rural Lutheran, like that, my sweet spot so you grew up in New York were worried that you did you act as if carried inactivity, learn about. I played sports at an act, and I read, and I wrote my dad my dad. You asked my dad actually supplemented his income from the agency by writing. Little political books are really. Markov satires- wake up the wisdom of Asperity Agnew. like any from actually were published yeah this Ballantine Paper There is little like you get familiar back pocket in their funny a funny? Yes, you satirist, he wrote you a cop covering books. You wrote the psychiatrist covering both the Nikita Khrushchev covering But- and this is

all kind of a supplement, the income. Is he also like to pay poker here like different ways of lake he play poker at the house. Did you have a group, a guy's? It will come over and smoke when you're gonna love of ass. He put out any up usually one. He was a good programme where you can like a hundred bucks, which is a big deal, my dad didn't any wrote a play that was on Broadway nineteen sixty seven called a trial of Lee Harvey Oswald at it. It was not a comedy, as you can probably tell from so he wrote after Oswald was shot. Obviously, and and four years after so hid, the the hypothesis was if Oswald had been shot. This is the trial interesting, so you, if you like it, heard that plays a possible new clothes before closing like three days really Why to hear him tell it he would see would say the people just were ready to see shots of Kennedys head blown up in rags,

I remember our seven as a first theatre experience I ever had aside from. Maybe you're a good man, Charlie Brown Right, which was a little a little lighter fair yeah, you don't hear they they dont show Charlie's had being thrown open. I hear you it's like when when when Lucy, trips him any fix up on his back. had doesn't blow open, you're a mother, Fucker Charlie Brow, the exquisite, so so that kind of bull your mind. Well, my first experience of her I've got a performance and it's pretty radical. What year is that, so that was sixty seven sixty eight seven years old, and my dad asked me what I thought after an then in the play, which was very, very long, Erica Oswald is sitting in a chair. The courtroom saying sitting in the chair, he doesn't say anything for the whole first act before intermissions

like he's like an hour saying that chairs as the prosecution and fences talking and my dad asked me what what? What did you think after the play- and I said, How do you know how to go to the bathroom, but that was my perceptive about acting from Arab, she had a globally. What do you do if you have to go and you sit in? What do you do with your Oswald and still gotta pay stuck on stage? two p so, but it seems like You ended up at Yale so you know you your family or you obviously put a premium on education. You must have been a pretty good student it didn't. Seem you, don't you? like you are necessarily connected so yeah to do the work not connected at all all scholarships stuff. I went to very fancy New York, high school and scholarship, and then I I I had a scholarship at Princeton based on need. I got a melon fellowship category is also a premature. My stuff was paid for my mom.

to take out some loans to help pay for school. I took out student knows, but we did it help here. Would you study undergrad at Princeton? surgeon, general liberal arts. What was your focus? Did you have a focus on the literature? I probably modern. Like my junior year, I rode on Virginia offer my senior thesis at Princeton. You have a choice of choosing you gonna take for courses or you can take three and write your senior thesis so it a year along book, but you gotta come up about it. That's what I didn't. I run, I'm back it back its novels of Baltic Sea You were in it. Man you're, like on their professor track, exactly that was my track. So united Uniting and write about Beckett's plays you like what there's not enough attention being paid to back. It's not what was that there were you give it?

yeah you're giving it a much nicer slant than the one I had, which was there, so many brilliant people, the retina backup plays but nobody's ran about. Bang is not alright I'll do ok, I get it. Unexplored territory. I just got it. I just gotta, make sense, and I don't have to do much. Research again go back and look at the end. I so what was the angle on the novels whither theme? you're, like a like. I was caught up in this way, this french stuff, What like, like the coroner like a year for co and like the posts modernists yeah I was the name. I can't remember what I wrote about the name of their ways: skates affronted critique, pure reason. That's what it was gone an end,

Jackie, thousand cargo from the grave is about how dare you there and I dont really remember what I was writing about- what my idea was, but it was basically in a nutshell. It would be- and this is to make a decree and everything, but you know the only say in response to an insane were: listen sanity brackish, it was basically got it. And so then you go to Yale for four masters in English. each day, but I didn't finish say I was admitted into the Phd programme, but I I did my classroom we're gonna Sammy orally, that I pass those and then I was supposedly onto my dissertation when I started acting really If you mean start acting to get out of your dissertation, that's one way to enter

Reddit yeah. Probably you know, I would say my soul didn't have my mind, didn't make that decision, but my soul, it's like walking around, like you can't do this your whole life, you just get. What was the dissertation that that that drove you to acting that, that one out another name of that one that was, magic and technology and contemporary american fiction and poetry. That seems a little broad, but probably you know you just pick a few though, at it exactly what you didn't work, you pick a feeble, they go out. That's life is sovereign the outgoing right on the pension James Marrow poet, Robertson, Davies, the canadian other Ishmael Red american author Norman normal. So those five that I was right about and them

basically that the idea behind that one was that throughout throughout human history there. Then this notion of magic, but magic has always been like black as in white massacre in others, news the sense in which there's some magic that you shouldn't do right, like fell fast, asleep sure very heavy strain, Don't don't get conjure up, the devil will end and at him for a favor, these I could get magic. Also is a primitive technology, its way and stories. The way people made should work like they're, fine, right now we have technology that does magical things right, but we don't discuss technology in terms of bad and good turns immoral and immoral, so say that these writers are kind of in viewing technological fields with magical thoughts at their side, just because we can do it tat saying at their authors, but just because we can do something right. Does that mean that we should

that those conversations are definitely happening now. I know that was right. That was many years ago. I was, I think it right now, dammit. If you don't, we finished it. You could be a professor now edges. be a kind of weird tenured broke out for aye, sir, having this conversation with a student and sitting in your office wondering why you never want to pursue, acting I sure about it. I saw what boy what was the moment were white? Why bail on your dissertation act out of that? What was the opportunity round that? How did you he's not a sudden switch switcher tracks. Did you were you taking classes? Did you get part at unaware the questions and kind observing around the truth. I think that I was try. I knew that I wanted a right, which is what you ask them true. I knew that

that's what I wanted to do and I also knew that I'd been poetry up until that point most, I hadn't really Britain prose Guy got used to do that. I was the english major roads and poetry. Again. How do you feel about that? I get the aid. It seems like that, see the easier rout. You know that easy, it's not that it's easy it just like who's. Gonna tell you it's no good, you others! two ways to go with it like either? That's like people who don't worry, we poetry I guess what I'm saying is that, in order for poetry to be judged properly, it's a very small world of sure I mean that some, I've heard it said that torture is wonderful, because you can't make any money at you know. That's why that's? Why poetry, I still enjoy reading a few points poems here, and there and Yoke is having gone through my books, but, like you, read, poetry, and yet what makes it land what makes it not land? Is you got a wide array, a wide berth there. Do you know what I'm saying is that if you are the guy that doesn't I doing research, it seems to me

it would make sense that, like wine, knock out upon. You. Could just gonna work upon my math equation near enough to spend your entire life writing four hundred pages. Watson incidents related world that you're doing a palm. You know it We'll give me the terms in which it wants to be read. Write each part: do you get dealer back at your poetry, in your ok with it or do you sort of nine is decent. Like the poetry itself is ok, my mind was young rather the things that I'm feeling and thanking her ear. So you get that like. If only that kid knew, what do you get knew exactly he's got away with words, but he's got nothing to say yeah. Ok, so then Europe, your poet and I was thinking I was thinking. Well, that's super lonely and and and prose well that

That seems even more alarming because you really gonna see your ass down and work through that stuff. So I thought okay, The only way that I can in I'll be out in the world, which is what I was interested in being- was the right place, sidebar, I'll be going in theatre in all right all right plays in them. I thought. Well, if I'm going right place, then I should probably learn something about acne. If I'm going to write words for actress to say, I should probably think you guys probably know something about what that is interesting, so you took a class I did take class is also same time when I was told I need to make like three thousand dollars to two for the summer. For my graduate life by my fancy graduate livestock and buddy. Who was an actress? I? U make three grand do in a commercial and has like I'll. Do that these are we gonna, be my agent. I met the Asian, she said

Nelson Truck commercial auditions. But if you want to go on tv, theatrical a movie audition, so you have to get in the class. I was like I'm not doing anything. Our work or my dissertation, so do you You get a commercial, I got my last day of summer. I saw that you, but though summer work in any now the wheel, commercial wars of war, it was for bra beer with that would instilled a love for acting in. You was the I remember I kind of showed I'm sorry, I didn't have the play. I dont have a good day worker. I wasn't. I wasn't they fear that pressure them anyway. class teach you was it a good class? Did you take it at Yale and entirely unknown? I was gonna, get a frantic at that point because I was teaching outside to teach our gratitude, and so I welcome it

New York and go to class. I kept that going out ride my bicycle to the train station in New Haven. Get my bike on the train. Take it to Penn Station right around the yard. Get back on NGO. I was kind of a new school graduate student carbide. I found this amazing class. I say amazing because it was Strasbourg technique which is known as noticed method. I guess you're calling and it was very. They are nothing to do with the words I am eyes conception. What acting was when I first thought about her or began was like. Oh, I gotta figure out like smart ways to say these things right but this was all about. You know what are you feeling and what's behind the words unawares, no matter the at all, who taught it wouldn't marcia? How afraid she was wonderful, and You know these classical just gone forever. Your people would we put on same here. Mars would stop them in the middle and she'd making relax do like incense memories

ass. He watches day, and that was a five minute saying, but it will be two hours watching these people struggles with the I've been in those where people they're gonna, crying involved here yeah blaming of the father. Yes, let me add that what that is the year, that is the complaint of civilization. At this point, the patriarchy fucked it all up In fact it all happened here, spend it's been dad's fault, since the beginning of time, that's upon I'm workin on so so its apparently that class, but it sunk in you got it. You understand what makes acting acting in an end. Did you write the place once the kind of got a sad one way era one play up: I've, written screenplays, topers things like that sense, but I just but one play Wowzer you I did and never put it on and it was stockard now and I say this in all coming from my back,

ground in literature and, unlike the the the halls of a blue, very criticism. Academe these kinds of things. I was not uniting read for plot, you know, but but movies and still stories that we found our plan. I had to stay in for flight. I was like you know what I want to talk about a buck. I'm not going to talk about what happens. What do you talk about? you talk about it It may even talk about. You know the structural aspect that I talk about the political aspect of right rail. Meaning or the main aim of the other than even the right to be heard. Tat point, blindness and insight. You know you ride around exactly what you're blind to end the critic, whose empowered how to find out? through your blindness to your own stuff, what exactly you were actually trying to say so that it is his bloom influence? Oh that's not, that's Paul man and people came out

bloom, is much more humanists authorities. as these other guys part the man. I don't know shit. What's his name, Dieter while people I look on file, don't back to nature, just or you can think recent rethinking Derrida, yes of secondary DA. Thank you boom, to understand a word to say good word to say: I have no idea what it means just drop at the act buried so also. I would say this: everyone is animals like becoming an actor, especially good, thing the x files, which You know it's an action shall structure. That really I needed to be exposed to that as a writer. Actually, I needed

as an actor I needed to see that what happens is withdraws people s great cause. You got to see a two hundred and ten times and a couple of movies worth Lenny Light for you to understand, but that Wasn'T- first role that I'm gonna kicked around a little bit in yeah yeah yeah Twenty excited in what we call the rapture MIKE the healthy, and talking about that as I love that fuckin movie, I, like Michael Token, movies, a lot and I miss him. I've seen a Michael token. Moving a long time I wrote be the many serious about started last year oh yeah, that's right! Those great yeah you're, the one with their Benito in there and the cat items item at that age or MIKE. I know, there's an it's an hour cat and I know I interviewed her,

but but Michael's gray, right or rather the player. I know the mayor, I love that, but that that rapture with what's a guy's name, the bongo played the sheriff the cop in them. yet we are will patent will pass see together, we can get yeah. I always right back, I too, but there was an intense movie because it dealt with such a big idea it literally dealt with the rapture the out, yet the christian Rapture it's such a small movie. and you're, really talking about the end of the world and and the end of that movie, where it's just that sound and you ve by it is the poetry, the thing was very it worked in. I was I love that movie. They had an impact on well me too, when Why not when I was finished with this book? we like lightning. I I realise that I have been influenced by them. after long up, because I was

I was dealing with similar things in this and actually called Michaela, or I emailed them he said, had just finished this novel. Would you care to read it? I really think that that you know the rapture color, marinated in me all these years, and when I was Writing it. I had no, not even one conscious thought about the rapture, but realize now I say to my colleague actually blurred it from his eyes blurb from out about how she held it up. He must be Alger. Guy now yeah, he's, got a gun, he's gonna haven't seen him by his emails, are sharp, that's good and then right so twin peaks. You did a few episodes that I did He called Ruby, which was geography movie. I played the J D Tippit, the officer who Oswald shot or what shot and ass. The same same days cannon

then we shall see that would have been the perfect moment to you from the recognition from that. You should have put up your death play Those are like, Why, my god said to me was- and he said you didn't you returned my dad's before her fucking patriarchy, but he said, I'm giving you the greatest gift. A father could ever give his son, I'm not very successful. You can win That's true! That's got, there's a wisdom to that right. You're, not gonna, fight that fight I don't think I ever did. Why mean it seems, like you know, from the way talk about him, yeah, specifically the fact that he was the outside of not understanding is work. You understood that he was a creative guy in a funny guy and a guy that had a political.

The point of view, and you have something to say in some balls on that. Those are all the good things not like you know we could it could all we have been A smarter hustler made a billion dollars selling garbage clothing. You know you got lucky yeah. I knew I also know that he was frustrated and also knew that he consider himself a novelist Anne and he he did Russia's first. Nobody was seventy three two years before he died, so I and I publish my first I was fifty five, so I guess I did win, but you know at least a chronological race. You know, but both were both late and we both come up. We both kind of ran from well. I don't think he ran from it. I think he had to make you don't have to support a family It sounds like you got a lot of I've done, for you got a good work ethic and a good Grandmama? That's from my my arm? Is she still around yeah she's? Ninety,

maybe it'll be ninety one in a couple days and she's together, yeah, let's get it so now the I have to wait for you get the x files. I mean he had no idea that that would, your life for a decade. Did you oh hell- no- I mean I thought it came my way and at that point I shared the prejudice against television. That was that there was a turn during that time ass before the so called golden age of television. where we realize that you know: actors are actors and they can exist in any medium, but then it was like all of you, if your tv actor your shea actor, and we parliament x files are you know these de shows that were or Nypd Blue, especially shows that were very well acted. but that was before other right and I thought but I needed money, and I thought it was really cool pilot and I thought,

there's no way I wasn't interested now and I'm just not there's no way. How can go on for very long right, ok, maybe it'll do sex it medal we're like me, will do a season, but there's no way. I'm a really I'm really good at that stuff? I should run studio. Have a good mind for seeing I'm gonna. Do it funny because it acknowledges the agonizing. You stepped into a thing words like snow batty. yeah? Can you not reacting is that you stepped into a world that there is going to have an eternal. Well of weird colt attention. You know it's almost like being on STAR Trek. I mean for the rest of your life. You gonna do with guys coming up? Do you going? I hate you know in that episode where It's the obituary line and the YAP make these that may not, because I I can't I've look out for a while. You know, but then I realized

there's no way to outrun it because it is it is. one of the biggest shows of all times that you're not going to- You're, not gonna, make a bigger share, so tell em just feel lucky to have yet been made on that you know and then at first it was like ok, I've gotta. I gotta compete with that I've gotta somehow erase it oh, so you are conscious of the Euro, I, after two hundred episodes, but you, sir, you have a good relationship with the fans absolutely, but at the time maybe I didn't hear the time I was I dont type cast me, I can do other things. I can do other things and then I went. You know, and then I sat when I got the show I was there. I want movies and I did a few, but I really wanted to Carmody and I wasn't getting those roles and movies. And that's what I call for occasion came away in them I never thought about doing another tv show because

the season over S, father so onerous and debilitating twenty five one hour episodes running around in there in the cold, May I and out of sight now. Never again, I can't do that again and then came a camera. I await episodes thousands and why not to make. Our forecasts was really like adults comedy the kind of comedy their wanted. You remind me of like movies from the seventy. I like that as I do that in a way that was like me pushing aghast Mulder with sexless yonder, never had a woman brighter than was comedy, which I which I really am. I like the towns and what was your relationship with their channeling Emmy? We you guys friends we're just very, very good friends, because I love those episodes with him, and you know I was you know went to that memorial service. I interviewed him here. Anyways like such a. I may larger. Isn't he told me about you.

Years and years ago. That's nice! He told me about did you start with a radio show or to start with the past? I don't know. I had a radio show many years ago on AIR America, and then he does. I think you know you from Latvia and then, if we get a podcast together and we have a nice time- and you know he was he was a user, especial person special to me. The optimism daily swear to say, but- I. What one one year when I was finishing up the x files like the third year, I guess I said to my since that I didn't have the energy to go to a movie in my short hiatus, which was like six or seven weeks but I did want to do so and I live, and I didn't want to do the lesson Russia is ours. I loved it I'll get a vcr tapes sent up to Vancouver. Oh yeah,

when that music will come on, I just get excited and there The commission. Only I carry loves you you once he wants you to do it and there, sir, Emma S back and allay drove down the Radford where they shouted, and I was I came in. I was watching Gary. Do like a talk, show segment sitting really closely you any. You me walk by me clearly had no fucking had who I was very did not love me and anyway yandah. De. I did not know me and then them came to him to shoot, are foreseen and it's a scene in which, we obviously em and Emma. I guess I'm a show, but Bill Cosby has talked so much that my spot has been pushed and I pull up. Fucking has he was dead Yes, shouted showbiz story right, so we do one take in the hallway tat on the director guy

and there they cut like so many girls. How wholly I said, thirty two niggers. What took you so long? and I was like to this day- it's like it's one of those moments that I trust am I in my entire life, not just in my friendship carrier is dislike like to me. That was, such a validation. What I was trying to do my comedy whatever and has just like from him. Tat was worth everything and that's when he became friends on his show. And then he said you play basketball yeah. So I have a game. Every year Sunday, my house, once you combine play and

can buy and play a few times, and then that's when I start talking about this coming back on and talk about the man crush and all that stuff about. Where are you now? come back out a kind of a crush on, but it wasn't homosexual creches as those you're funny episodes that was a famous basketball game, you're still missing a lot of people over there. As very funny basketball game, you're, good people, yeah yeah, it's hard man, it's hard when people go, well! You know it is. It is like I said, but he's not. You know to me: it's not it's weird, because people do go. I was just thinking today you now, as I really think about Ruth Better guns were getting more and it's not been long that she's dead right and he was my friend, but she was something that I thought about someone that I thought I mean here I mean I mean. How much did you think about her when she was alive honestly well,.

A lot allowed for something that I didn't know. You know I just feel like she's gone beyond. I don't feel that Bulgaria, sadly I ate. took me a long time to really euphoria, preceded him you know cause. I see him when I was a kid. I was a doormat, the comedy store in the eighties, and I see him a few times yes. But No, he didn't go there that often, but he took me a long time to really sort of appreciate the uniqueness of his voice. You know of how he get it. You know in history and certainly talking to him was one way and then Yo Yo talking to Jordan and Egypt. Obviously, in a really sort of yet I watch Base Anderson and everything, but the after he passed away and hearing to see people talking. Adam and Kevin Neil in every like, and then, after God he was so fucking funny at that memorial, I saw, I saw a recording, my god I mean yet,

but but here you know just really appreciating the way he handled life and what his, Roger was having Judd. Definitely Oh, did get a job with a document on the book he really kind of lockdown. He really loved their Gary a lot. So where do you like in terms of like I know, I listen to some music to me when he like you just like a work, a hollow wait before we get to that. Let's talk about like I'm a recovery guy, and I know You had your issues now. Did the cow Four indication did that If you become that guy or how do you know, No, not not at all. That was something I'd. Really talk about. I don't like to America's. I don't like to give a kind of currency. The idea you known shirt, but but I was trying to save my marriage right jails

yeah and you almost happened right younger saved it he's tried. I would almost say you guys. I d get you get. Are you? Are you ok with each other in terms of things with the kids in an attack us good, yakking, she's, great she's, she's? Wonderful, ok, well they're. Moving on from that? What dumb? Where do you? What's? The music thing? Do you play, an instrumental you just right, songs and get it. You got a bad fellow guitar. I planet, guitar to throw cords together? You know how I can hear maladies, which is where it is. I don't know I never could saying I never had about. I dont have like what they call an instrument, the answer, but I can hear melodies and I can you do more and more approximate them with my voice and I can certainly right lyrics. So I have a band, and you know I like come up with animals on my garage bandages play guitar under under melodies and and Lyric Salome work on end

Is it just a passion project derive any expectations. I never had an expectations for the fact that I have just three right: you can you record come and get a novel come around. You got this new record coming out Yes, that's all startling to me Especially because, like I mentioned in terms of my boy You know? I was actually someone You know they told me. I said you are you. Are you just mouthful Eric Scenery, this young, an inch in charge or whatever, but I did go out for the choir when I was there, probably eleven years old, because got paid. I went to school girl, Grace Church School Ass, a famous school and some my mom was a teacher there. Many mayors and my friend,

state they vacant the who could saying they ran acquire and they got paid out like a few dollars, right, now a few dollars a month was forget it for me, those it was all I needed. Never could imagine like what would I do with four hour. He added and I could get an album or I could save up and get those Adidas gray hair, so once again. We require again, in all events of money bad yet for the money I don't know if you know this, but when the church pays you near being a jubilee year. Another church pays you, they cut you the big chair, like a golf tournament check. It's like Oh yes, only of what hours, but the actual jet. It's the size of you here one of those big checks, so I

in addition for the choir and you have to edition in front of the whole fire on bodies and the the choir Masters at the piano and he sat down we're gonna play. No knowledge is singled out after it and I heard literally Okay, I'm going try to sing the no after another place, not not sing. That no the one that comes next, I thought I heard it said it and every like. Like a delay, Remember looking around the room, and people like on my guys like not only tone deaf but in a really weird way. That was my relationship to my singing voice. Until I said, I thought you were misunderstood exactly and would give it like a record deal. You just do it yourself, produce it yet so produce

but you know, we ve had tour, who had like three or four tours weak, I played like three thousand seat places up pretty bad. think, Jude values for me, but, like our there are a lot of people waiting for after the show. So they can ask you ask file questions. Well, you have inquired the shame of new music now, as you know, there's like their meeting greatly already sure, though there's a lot of that: the signing of the horizon excited nerds. You said- and I didn't, but how come like We ask you to so when he first are doing exiles in the stigma of one. To be a movie actor and then taking the tv gig What signal down because also fine. which easier says not just tv sigh fight troublesome

its fox, rang out even out. Look at that point. The browsers, like you, put a lot of thought into self regulation at that point, but like what about the stigma, the actor fuck him. Iraq music, what I want to do it I it's not gonna happen. forgetting my way, I mean you know if you're going to yell that at me all the time it's going to hurt my feelings, but it's not going to stop me because you, like doing I think I'm good uniting us on to say I, wouldn't I wouldn't do it if I didn't began some say right in a very so you know sure that I guess that's exactly difficult, but I think we only bad, or else we wouldn't be sitting on microphones. Talking like we're, gonna entertainer right, five people. By the way I get that from you and me, like. I unite, from knowing you from you know what things you do or your presence in the culture. I always thought. What that guy seems like he he's. Ok, with himself

Oh, I know about that. Yeah. It's like, I guess, I'm sure I just keep on trying to express something right, any sort of its two. It's a great thing to I think to relay like if you have talent to move around and take all the risks you wanna take with it. It's a rare thing, not everybody has it so why not see what you can do with it. I guess I mean it's like For me, it's just. Ideas or I have notions or have impulses and they take different forms, at this point in my life and I feel very almost lucky to Be able to pursue them tat way right, but but also its you know it's not like. I'm just sit around like having a great time he s heart. He asked her about that novel. You look out, got to pick up a wait a bit. I met its speed book, I mean business, you do I mean business like. I can t take it seriously. I do I mean

That would be out be my my weakness problem. You I'd be taken seriously I want a book to be taken seriously. If you don't want people to guide the guy from the X files wrote a book, I guess that's what they're gonna say. But the guy, given the exiles, make you may record exactly exactly outside it to get a laugh out of But may I again today that is the deal that you made with the, tat S a big check right. That is the magic. It is the first year in contract. Have that the magic and technology right there and its, and I I can't background I do nor, nor do I want to That is the way it goes, and I just need to. In my mind, I keep on doing the work and I hope and believe that eventually people will say that I mean

business. Why up so too, and in I didn't. I didn't, dare not read the book out of disrespect or no desire. I just didn't make the time, but I have it and I do- and I will thank you and it was they talk in Yemen. Legumes me too, There you go folks. Ah what an enjoyable conversation, the new book truly like lightning comes out tomorrow and you can, check out his music he's got a new. I haven't come on out. There is a single complaint on the tracks, you can check out on Youtube. You can watch all the x files. Seeing the x files The rest, your life watching there's enough for them and don't forget if you're struggling right now check out better help. It's a secure online service providing professional councillors who can listen and help you

fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and better help will match you with their own licence. Professional therapists, say more affordable option than traditional offline counselling, deputy up with Mark Mariners, sponsored by better help, an eye witness get ten percent off the first, online therapy when they this if better help that calm, Flash, media visit better, http dot com Stability and joined the over one million people were taken charge of their mental health with the better help of an experienced better help professional dig. It arrived put my gun back in my mouth play. some guitar for you.

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