« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1213 - Azazel Jacobs

2021-03-29 | 🔗

Writer-director Azazel Jacobs was born into the world of experimental film. But it was a combination of comic books, old radio shows, Mad Magazine and The Clash that helped him develop the sensibility he would later put on screen. Aza tells Marc how his parents passed along a love of art and a compulsion to create, why he believes the name they chose for him limited his professional options, and how he found out a world existed between Hollywood and the kind of films his father made. They also talk about Aza’s latest film, French Exit.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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particularly nice what the fuck sticks a fuck stick is our great thing. What the fuck tubekins I've been doing this for over a decade way, what do I do to you? What is this I twelve years? What is it like? Fifteen wasn't like nineteen years how by doing this, forty five yours what's happening today on the show us Zau Jacobs, Arza as a Jacobs. He's a director in a screen. Writer who made films like Terry would Chauncey Riley. The lovers would Deborah Winger and Tracy. Let's and his new movie is french exit with Michel five who actually got a golden globe nomination for it, and I love that movie. The interesting thing about about Gaza is that I met him years ago. He was somehow connected to my experts different. Sarah and we talked a bit
I knew he grew up in New York. I knew his parents were artists, but I did learn about his parents sort of more in depth. Waiter can inflow Jacobs who were and still are, experimental film makers but what we learned in this conversation, that is, that odds, is Reich firmly sort of steel. In that world. It's a small world and its an interesting world and it was a that had an impact when the entire world with smaller. Before the big internet, whereas little pockets. Humanity and art could really sort of serve an entire community or be special and must have global way and had a sword and to a certain traction and integrity a sort of you meekness, but now it's just blow. Open man. I can be annexed. Filmmaker ivy. Experiment filmmaker, have you ever met an experimental felt now, but I got a phone I think gonna be a novelist heavy written
anything now, but I got I can't. I've got a computer. I think I'm gonna be a comedian. Have ever done stand up now, but I knew I watch you can do it he's gotta get. I have This place near me where, if you bring ten friends you can be a comedian and now I call myself a meeting is brought seven friends at this age, a fuck, an entitlement How are we not all preoccupied with just ourselves too? Jesus Christ, man some days, I'm just for fear other days of smoke and fish I'm playing with a kitten building shelves I'm still sorting out what was in the old garage. I brought some stuff to be framed. I'm get my house together. I guess I'm planning on staying for a little while Obviously this is probably going to be the last house I live in Sweden Think of that shit. What by doing it all for right,
I think I'm starting to appreciate why we do things maybe meditation as something that may be just age may be just the fact that my Father nothing and here no interest in doing anything and hasn't for years, but he does. Complain about having nothing to do. He doesn't want to do anything he's not just in anything. He's board any complains about having nothing to do. I don't wanna, be that guy hate maybe you're ready to turn your great idea into a new website, or maybe you already have a website, and you want freshen it up. That's where we're I would deputy Ipod that common. Thankfully we, U squares, pay. So giving it some new touches the breeze, whether your son, running from scratch or building on what you already have do it with square space. It's also simple start with the design can put in drag and drop tools to make the site your own, all web,
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Pieces of fan, art pictures, books trying to make an office in my house, and it just odd to go through a lifetime's work as shit, I'm not that nostalgic, I'm really not, but there's a few things a few key elements from my life that understand, about, and they have direct connection to this undertaking to this. I guess, there's a painting I put upon the wall, in the house in the office of it was fan. Piece of fan. Art come to visit the studios when we were doing our America whenever Erica radio is at the old w ally, be studios. There was a door into the studio. There is a little sort of saying that was tape to right next to the door, not by a little kind of aforementioned that was put their before we even got their w ally be was a African America in station. Some people from that station worked on AIR America. My partner mark rightly did but just above the lock on
you to do something today, which the world may talk of hereafter and now just beside the door was in on the air sign that went up and someone very cleverly, I can't remember the woman's name I have to find it did a painting of just those two things. It's a great little painting and I put that up in the wall in the office and I'd had been sitting on it for awhile wasn't up anywhere for long time, but now it means something it means Beginning me, walking through that door was the beginning of me figuring out how to be on this microphone, and then there is another, a painting that just brought into be framed by another fan whose name is. I believe it's Dmitri three a off. I believe he is aid. Are the writer Chicago but I love his art and he somehow, from a picture of the inside the picture of a photograph of the inside of the garage. He did this painting that almost whoops looks abstract
If you look out of her, why you realize it is of the old garage of the interior of it, and I love it. So that's getting framed. But the point is on a day, the day basis, because I dont have children. And I dont have you know much of a connection with my parents in in. A kind of debt patched way where I am, I don't. I can't really quite explain it that I dont always know what life is for. I don't always know you know what, I'm supposed to be doing, but because of this year off that we all took, we all took a year off to be a terrifying. I'd and down existential, devastated and finance. We compromise many people. I was a great. You're off for many and its ongoing. It's it's were still in it.
But because of that, and because of what I went through over this last year, every confronted with the idea of like what Is that what is life? What is the big pay off? Is it to do so? engaged and keep working. Is it about achieving things you're what shit about me. I dont have children to look at and say look what I did. I guess I have a above. Body of work. Then I'm proud of buddy, I am trying on a day to day basis to have a certain amount of acceptance, but also do like enjoy life a little bit me. Ok with that. Or to always have some sense of what its for them when I'm I'm doing all this stuff in my house, everyday, every action. I take that bring me some joy- is counter acted with this idea of what fucking difference does it make? It they operate together in me that, yeah. I love that who gives a shit
This is amazing, but doesn't matter got guy I love doing this by mid, doesn't mean anything. If I could somehow get rid of that. Second part. That second voice said that that counterweight to everything, at least for a little while be nice, I think they met. Patients have helping having the kitten helps. I'm also I feel like. Maybe I should be of service more. I think I rationalize that. Because it seems that this podcast you're my presence in the world on Instagram again for those of you who care. Or would listen to this. I think I'm, I think it's helpful I hear from a lot of people. It helps that I'm glad to help I don't know that I can say like well I can really do my part. Am I I guess what is point of this its pass over
Jus time you not spell, to be in the bread. I dont celebrate any of it. Happy pass over, Maybe my tone is good. I hope you are enjoying family the best you can. I hope that some of you are able to spend time with your family. I hope that the yeah you're being is jewish as you possibly can as a Jew and those people who don't understand what pass over resorts, not their holiday Once you try being a little jewish too look if we learned anything in the past year at that time is precious folks and taking trips to the post office is probably not. How you want to see your time right now. That's why I recommend mailing and shipping online at stamps. Dotcom stamps dotcom allows you to mail and ship anytime anywhere right from your computer
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regarding the post office again right, don't do it I don't know. Man. I guess I just want to be at peace with who I am and what's around me, but that it becomes very difficult from that requires some engagement, some service, some vigilance and Probably a little bit of righteousness in the sense of principles but other days and dislike fuck man. I mean I bought a set of shelves full a company that I know is not good. That I know John its money to the wrong place, but they had the shelves I wanted to add the shelves. I needed that the exact things I wanted some like my two hundred dollars. Really create the next dictator my help But do my shells were good yeah
Do they hold everything I want them to hold you up they come out exactly at exactly what you want either make me happy. What is that is that too bigger price to pay for the next fashion, dictator, for putting a few bucks towards that. Why do the shows your girl get but Eve you shouldn't support. I know I know but I mean the shelves like our eye, but just now you know when you're being taken away from that, I would, though, shoves room, I pay for those shoes that guys wearing those boots that he's got it your throat and put the shelves man. I mean you know it's like right. I mean I don't know. So, as a Jacobs, interesting talk, I find that
there's so much art and are so much music and there's so much. I don't know I don't understand and haven't been exposed to, and I think myself as an open minded, educated and expand who's the guy but it never stops. You can always put new stuff in to the mind Ah, I see a movie, the new movies french exit, starring, Michel, five, Lucas Hedges it opens in theatres across the country this Friday April. Second, I enjoy the movie, I enjoyed talking nausea, I'm ready for the art. Are you ready for Arza Harry com Ah that, unlike our very good, nice to see you. Thanks are doing this. You have to California
You know what happened. Is about, I think about four years ago we had a fire in our place in Highland Park, not like Iqs fire, but a big guy fire that we had to move out of that place and put all of our stuff in storage, and then we've been I'm just my wife, Diaz and I've been kind of just going to wherever work is, I've been going, and especially because my folks are still here and southern going here line corresponding time here and less in New York City in LOS Angeles, but then, when this whole thing has been obvious point my hair out over there really, while the plague the plague, like wasn't you'd know, got hurt and none, and I was a dry of fire, so it was, it was a real one like it was a few fire chocks. I was not the idea of his home did you and the house. Now now, I was gonna perfect time further. You know
the landlord to get a stock. Is the neighbourhood with changing so much and the home for a lot so at all, gonna worked out her, so she for her and now just back in New York here, your folks house now, I'm gonna nearby, though so were at council level beside Still in Lebanon, where I grew up, man, I miss it meant now. I think about it. We live and down there on the in the snow and have done Second, between a and b and yeah, it's can imagine New York it so sad and empty now right, it's amazing. I mean it's just come it's right up on your face. Every day I walk out, I see another store, that's gone and you just those people there. Nothing wrong, Deston suffering suffering. I get it. Then places that I remember well and have had history again only contributed to making the city what it was designed for. So long
and so it's it's it's very different than being in LOS Angeles, where I was easier for me to discover avoid, but at this in time. The the the life that still going on that's persevering, these guidelines, The weeks that keeps happening, Amelia conversations that you here behind people, like that's happening still the streets. Do the mask. I came here and all these amazing stories that you just wanna keep walking back I'm somebody in seeing what's going on life here. Can I talk to Patty Smith a few months ago he's down there and she Posada Instagram Latin and it's a sort of like that feels captain to me when I see her talking Patty Smith in her your house yeah, it's in and I go down to my folks. We walk around the block in just seeing the city from Baghdad neighbourhood is exactly pretty much how it was growing up now. It's that anti again in a laboratory longer we're here
where was culture back? I was just there, Sir a place that I could play in the middle, the streets. It was just an empty empty, those just just artist. Therein was like industrial lofts right its total into industrial and also a lot of abandon, late, not abandon, lost their it turns out. There are landlords that had these laws our boarded up so They are waiting for the market to change and I never made sense to me that so many buildings that were just empty. And I didn't will remember, appears to explain to me while they're holding onto it in case the neighbourhood goes up and dynamic. There is the chance of this neighbourhood to go up and I was it in your mind. Online. But clearly I know nothing. I wasn't so just like it almost felt abandoned down there. Like a lightweight so like here. I don't know if you edit your Wikipedia page, but you there's like not much on there.
I don T, I added it completely off good, there's nothing. I don't like how will the forty eight ok. So I'm ok, I'm fifty seven! So you go back. You remember the seventies down their yeah yeah. I do I mean expressly big because that's were avi like other film, bakers and arrests. War aside, W remembered the neighbourhood come going, a few blocks to this way or there was a theatre, the I gave a living cinema that was on White Street, like those were all kind of happening in then what you re born. Seventy two interesting. So your dad, both your parents, are artists, yeah, monogamous painter, but she's, really been collaborator with. My father has been making films since the late fifties, but it was like It's it's a very specific type of lifestyle, because it's not. These are not big pictures
Now and then so the whole ADI, their audience was in the neighborhood them in that was it a resist them, and so the screenings were happening in all those laughs. You know like you would walk into these places and people had screwing set up an aid. I was cleaning therein, Those are my earliest memories for sure. Just what why please films that cut it made sense to me, especially at that age. You know like one year for five you're, not seeing any difference between those films and Superman cartoons. They all kind of feel like movies or even films, we romanticize at era of art. You know in New York and in general right. So I guess what do you think your father was doing hike in terms of film, like you know, when you grew old enough to sort of wrath. Your brain around that this was, nature of his art. But was clearly not the movies you would see in a movie theater. You know who
where his contemporaries, what was the movement? Well, I think that it was a matter survival for him. I think differently. Wanna hear talk about the fifties, especially is the kind of dearth of films and what, how far away the art world see. He was very much grew up. Poor one in class and to the I am addressing you who what what he told me that he has given The school card to them to meet the monarch was a little kid and then he would go down there and just the kind of past time. He would adopting these films is foreign, found the kid and is that had this huge impressing, he would just be there all the time, and so, by the time he came out of the coastguard? He had idea of something about art, but it was really kind of falling
through that honest learning about on its own and then windup, studying with its painted, enhance happen that introduced that. Wasn't no chance of a commercial life. It was just a really a matter of expressing kind of so much of the despair and so much of the path to politics. It is feeling of a way to communicate. In a way is especially to himself. But what wonder? happening. Is this and again? This is where my sites will make us. I was a little it's only now, looking back and thinking about this than amazing time you about these, It was always the same people there at their screenings. He knows the other fellow filmmakers like what are we going like ten people, twenty it would now guy, I think, maybe twenty people Play is what I remember and home zip could be somewhere between ten and twenty, and I remember their beauty, screenings and then everybody's conversations that would go on later and later and then my sister needs you and I would fall.
But the other little kids and I said point. These would turn into big shouting matches. Overfill was because this was this the pay at the end of the day, like the conversation, the camera, that's that that's all there was there wasn't anything there is no such thing of like Anything more than that was anybody. Writing on the films were on that community of people. Yeah Jonas makers was at that time ready for the New York Times and he was really shining alive and there's other writers for sure that were doing that and say that there's something important going on here by it. Very, very obviously far away from what Warhol was doing, which was by Canada closest gonna commercial version of that word there was a there is an intersection, but then to tensions very very different and the words are very different light there. The whole.
Models and jobs and all that stuff. Could it be farther away from what my Father in the treaty I think I, like my father, was interested and he just was expected seeing that have a money using that's over money wasted was so insulting to them. For him, it was really a choice between June everything you can to not get a. My job and just arrived doing the work that he felt like was essential for him. Well, how did They do that. Well, ultimately to raise my sister and I he became a thought film, is being obtained, and that was gonna bottom only could have happened. He could only have been hired in late sixties because he had no college. Occasionally barely graduate Highschool, so there was about once deliver in society where you can hire somebody to star environment,
and then other not always just very, very cheap living on. I can't tell you how cheap New York City was a totally different. Things are the it wasn't. I'm gonna pay this random in red and our place. Epic was thirty five bucks a month when I moved in giving a year- oh yeah, yeah yeah, that's what that whole neighborhood was it wasn't? You need walk into his huge places in you. Never think yourself like why should a pang for this right. Yes, that was normal, there's like just above squatting or was a comfortable. When my mom at my dad he had they done. They had no windows like no no wonder they were the goes as planned again I mean there, he seeks a civilised, empty degree, but that was so unimportant too. I'm an idle and not very important to her until I think yell kids. Happening, and then you start kind of looking ahead. What kind of pay
did she do abstraction yeah. And believe it or not. My mom went Wednesday, and I you start painting abject paintings, while she was there and the teachers. Found. They should be doing much more commercial works, they call their parents in and they told told there told them listen if your daughter is in stark painting, more commercial, worse, we're gonna, take her out and her parents were completely excited by the idea that uses it. Yes, kicker our rapid ass, if they were totally didn't, have honoured anyway, so they did, they can It really does want if anything went farther into that direction and that's how mechanics met till my dad was just painting on the beach in Prophetstown, and she saw him and I think that the fact that he was supposed to be like selling. These paintings were so crazy,
because nobody would ever by them, but he loved them immediately in that's kind of help. Their romance began tar braiding. Somehow you it's beautiful there's something painful above the commitment. To art. For commerce and art over. There is almost like an intact gin to that, like you know, we don't want that kind of, potential Definitely there was a whole side of that that the commercial service that were so repulsive and so are there and so outside of who they want to become and who did what they want to contribute, while they're here and there stayed in the coming days? Waking use eighty seven now, I'm in my mom and they're, just that's what they do and I would say First and foremost, my garden existence for my mom, you know she's the eyes and he trusts in that process.
So yeah there's something there is something not derive any one else see them at this point. They do They do and if anything is a pilot, a bigger audience, a lot of ways, because you know the EU, the young kids that are I mean these in saying, I think kind of. Maybe it's ok, controllers there, they are finding them, and I've been working with keener, wanna, like a big box there. That will come out soon. A really our finding them and do you know how to say the other thing that Bobby screens because its completion, like so many screenings as a kid. I don't remember the theatre being emptied out like special for going to Outside of that world Trade like Germany at the moment Does that sound of chairs going far flap that one after another? You know I'm out we're just see the place, but there would always be besides
the people that already were there and into that work. There be one or two people left over at the end of the screening that will go up to my dad and look at him like, oh, I thought I was completely alone until this moment, and I remembered that and that's that's stayed with me. Like that was something that I think when they cannot solitude and the pain of that which is apparent like it's definitely not an easy life to choose that is something that always stay with me the one guy that really connected that goes up and go. Oh, I didn't know that. Possible- and I saw that over and over like, as am I imagine like growing up with that liking like these like I did. I just saw the title STAR spangled to death and, like you, I kind of like I could In short, a rat, my brain around the
the period in what it probably was about, but it was a big epic movie right, yeah I spent, and that was one that he actually in one that He started before My sister and I were born and then finished to act he retired like get it started, teach for thirty years computers had to happen, so you get out finish it very cheaply cause he didn't have the money to how long away like a toy is in an epoch it's about six and a half hours amnesia shades. It really is a mean It's his view of this country and its the view of definitely were this country is now I mean he started back ban by I'm a legally understood. We were heading and those that the main where we are now something that he's been above them and talking about since I have been a little kid like this has been a clear. This hall
this whole insanity has been really clearly where things have been going for my whole lifetime, then, and there So the conversations I have other film makers- and that was you know what you're trying to to show the world what they were reacting to by being committed to it russian overcomers varies that, but also like I had done, like the art of it was really important. Can is there another way of seeing in I've got to study. Withstand bracket is another very big shot. Carry weight in the world where he teach and by our own borders. I went up there just for a summer course. He took her to just got hit you you would think. Like you know, like did brackish know your old man. He must have either a super close, so you and I you and study with your your dad's power the other guy amazing, how this class that was kind of infinite cossacks, death and cinema, a high and low guy- and I was already studying film
it was an amazing. I may end the whole thing that I can take away. Families. What stands bigger? directive was was, to go back to that place when you're a kid before you get. Let you know before your told that grass is green and the sky is blue, like what is happening in the grass. What is actually making up those colors like how to go back before we get so close minded and just dismiss things beautiful amazing things are happening, and so the art side of what they are trying to do and how to kind of take things, found, not only like financial place, we have an interest in internal. Connection was ethic. The essential as the politics that is political right just to be sure that was okay, so that those are really the two schools you're talking back as like Imbracus age. My
experience when I had the experience when I was open minded enough to stand. You know I was happening in the legacy of breakage. Where you know you're watching- cinematic experience that could just be you know colors. It could just be just poetic, you no kind of framing of of things that you can even identify necessary like there's an experienced watching the way, those things flow together. That is not It's? Not verbal necessarily is not narrative, certainly in itself. It is something about using the movement of the medium to to express something up prime or poetic, whereas the other side of art movies, not art movies, but film as art in the purest sense. I guess you know, would be more of an intellectual exercise.
And I would say, if anything were my father's workers cannot return much more to painting used. In his paintings. Using an actual damages and learning how to an end shine like death even but to day emaciated. So he's the workers extremely abstract, now it's not like shooting lay in the beginning was deafening, shooting friends doing things in Africa, He found the now washing with computers, husbands so much about really bringing paintings to life in the way that he feels them and sees them and so had been connected in that way. You know the idea that was the other thing about them like I, just the conversations was pretty much every day between them on the phone you know like they were standing, we call on all the time I wrote. Yeah. This is like again like this. The pay
China is right. This life, the life of an hour. This because, like you know, there's nothing more disturbing than the art world really and in terms of of the business of art. Could you know which I knew nothing about you? and I gave it a painter, and I was like. Oh my god. This is like a scene. I'd. I don't know that world, but I know that, like with my dad liked it him and my mom started this theater here in the feast for the It's got a millennium. What's gone now from there and my darling sometimes show wore a core horse films whose fancy cared about and eat one of sitting over budget he's a budget whose projecting them- and he He told me about TAT It's a war or about the profound he was shining. And that he was so touched them my dad. Why should because? Every way that would come to his screening but stay in the hallway, like nearly- would actually sit in the theatre he always did.
This is just a party outside in the lobby, but nobody would venture, and now she take vanquished, onto the work itself, yeah you know, and so that was like the closest that he got to. That side of things and by complimenting Warhol and showing warehouse movie that gittin well just seeing how empty what there. You know that compared the relationship between that's Hyperboreans right. Work was in the right point, show When do you decide that you're going to approach film, I may I it seems like you know, who is inevitable on some while you were either going to be an hour, historic or run far from it. You know they gave me this name so that all the business no chances of going into politics, scientists and they got here- and I was like definitely their idea between
behind us Adele? Was they may there always like you know you can do whatever you want, but a kind of immediately limit. What is, as I mean, other cells fallen angels, name nothin, parents idea they'll fell for good reasons, because he disobey God, but it sir it's either. They have very, very strong feelings hence religion, and I mean the amazing thing with others that I do not fully understand. Until I got older was like, if you mean israeli and you say, bet you met her eyes out. They won't believe it cause. I just like they say, go to how they should go to others there, all the time it that's the curse. Word pike, yeah you try that are, and they would say now you never met like a baby.
Is it possible that from a bad name, their child there, it's not like were set down, and actually I had it whenever they twice something I had it go to. I went to Israel once in my life for like a thing with them tv that I was working on and even when I got to the airport, they just did not want to. Let me on the plane fix this couldn't get over. They looked at my back for and they're like this is now your name. They can. This can't be and I d give calling people over I get burned with a lady I myself, as those you me did you get it something. I know your parents gave you yes the approach of jewish, yes, as those not your name were like over and over and over and over and over again and then I get over there. You know and I gum, the same thing and escape introducing myself and the kids. Luckily, you know the angry whirling love they thought I was on. Some tat met all the year round. Webdriver was sore
the demon name. Yet is it it is, but yesterday, we would definitely like Well, there's your prayers, but at the same time they gave him his name, but I never felt like ours. Art was what was agreed. But I thought cartooning, who is where I really loved underground, comic books speed or malware guys, yeah every child burns, all those people I burns, how great is burns amazing? Romania was ass, a student, my father assigned new and I knew tat. He had no spare. You dad had no speaker, Yes, he was here. He stole my dad and I ve been very, very very tight, still smoking, those camels he's unease, cigarettes, womb now, art and I ve been writing something when I We are collaborating reeling yeah, we ve been working women, as you do writings the joint debate on these points
His hair out because of this what's going on the world is well writing. This is a big every nightmare data I think we have another mind for years, so everybody's. Based arriving is marrying and it's been a great deal to do to work with him so cool Firstly, what are you working on? It? it's a tea. The thing is something that we ve been developed. We have been developing with no game in for a while now Your game into that's interesting, you Speak German and Neil yeah yeah. I think it's gonna really coming talking about when I was. There was a threat when art historian, in the real threat to documentary series or its is that Israel, Yonder Leonardo, but it's really contest the car it's gonna, far out there, it's very very
it's wild, the brave what to do, and I think we'll be something special when art was a threat. What do you? What do you think was the last piece of art that was a threat. When do you see that that time? What was that time? look, I mean for for sure, every think about comic books, burnings and we think about Little Richard little. Richard do you know we are Tutti, Frutti and grimy like there's. They constantly, these examples there out right, where we think of like this is actually something that people down there. Figured out how to market, yet right and reassured the culture, and then it was appropriated exactly this smells like team spirit situation. So you wanted to get into graphic art I don't know how thoroughly I thought about this, but I definitely was, you know I was in a good student I mean I was like I was pretty good, I'm ahead in its own way. I was there as AIDS and ass in the air to high school.
Here in the city and now things that I was interested in like art history, I would do well and what what generation are you are you like? Were the beastie boys, your age or they my age? I think they're, my age, These two boys were there were bed all there. Like them growing up, but Who is my generation, and I had this kind of strange experience that I got two were My sister was four years old there, and because of that, I was here but to get into a lotta punkin stop quieter like I got. It might the first show was going to see the clash with her and eighty two. That was something that cannot completely changed my life and the army. The area like I came back at home, really different care in. I was nine years old and that set I whole path for the clash did
a completely media. We went again we're out and my dad was teaching that somewhere out and border withstand, they were doing like sustain him and asked him to come out, so we all were out there and we'd go out there for each somewhere, like between eighty eighty one. Eighty two in the class came through in there, was one of those things you know like. I was there. I think, you're right rocks and now ran rising. That's already mystical ray The thing was that in ours who is where I was in the car with my like my mom and my sister and they're like okay, so at least he's going to see the clash and so tickets for nine bucks. So we're going to give you nine dollars worth of quarters, so you can go to the arcade throughout this thing, like being a little snotty brother saying, oh, I can I go see. The clash in my sister reacted. So quickly was a no, no, no, no, no, we. I definitely you know, and so my gun,
have to students, Stephen Julia, that were big clash, fans, and so they want or taking me and my sister, their muscles, that's whining and we want there the day before and slept out, Siano slept. Like waiting and on the steps, and now, as I read, I can remember that so well in their lives, the first time really smelly, weedin, just wondering what daddy I am here. You remember some point like there's a conversation with were real. It were the first one, and so there was a whole lot of people sleeping on a stone stairs at some point like something put their hands over my ears and he used to study here, your legs are really listening and ill with somebody but he was offering a blow job to get in earlier, and I was like
You have is that you know, like I, sent a figure out what color I knew something that would get somebody in something early offering hullo blowjob. Yes, I think somebody next to us was often the security guy get home I get out here So then I remember like we got in your first thing. I in turn, I am and then suddenly awaiting hours and hours in the sun. For this concept, a star and so because I had brought always mad magazines with me. I wonder, kind of like really popular. You know in the way they ethics pass out and finer than the current getting past around in time. And his loving you noticed seeing this whole other world open up. Animal by the time the show started worsen, closer? I heard that was it? Was that sense that kind of a man this is again like in retrospect, but always- you like seeing this ban come out. Their looks like an army, is so impressive for, like a little boy my axe and all that it
but also just seen the love that he's coming towards this expert. He coming from the world that my dad was in was just like oh wow. This is this belgian since Pierre it is also being left. A thousand times more and emphasise that impression. You know some skin had put me on the shoulder, and so I just as a matter for away from stronger while saying- and I definitely new like something really significant happened, and then my parents were like. I came back to a different kind and now became like that. Certainly Ojeda. That set me like I'm a man in the same level with them to this day, I'm just like in Vienna the class genres and underwear size you know, like I'm crazy, Harry. How did it change? your approach to life, I mean what was it that changed first, first and foremost, it's like the energy economy,
He gave me and has continued to give me some kind of courage in terms of pursuing my own, and then always gonna getting so until it to your hearing these words in your hearing these interviews and you hearing somebody things so direct again kind of going back to this idea. I know that one of the things about the clashes describe how hypocritical contradictory they wore but to hear them talk about pursuing money, but pursuing are in pursuing a message, completely connect due to the war, that I was coming from Rome and it was a gift, type a message: it wasn't your parents message it wasn't there, our friends, arguing about art It wasn t it was more light was visceral. In a way that was probably different? It and at the same time it was like the blow back pay. They would always get enough for changing and trying all these different things and cut. The combination of influence is wasted. The thing that.
They would always get a lot of shit. For me now, they're looked back in this kind of Legend Day. That wasn't the case for so long, and that definitely has been the thing for me and my own films of China to bring in different Influences and see what I can do different from that and how do they combine work where's that clash in my own work? What kind of sparks comes out of that? So I always keep going back to different. Music of theirs to how guide me in terms of going ok. This is something This is my interest in the bushes mean these directions. Definitely an idea that I could the airy found that I make. I always try to go now the opposite direction. Reality Some I try to do something really really different and something I feel like that definite comes from the clashes influence. When did you start actively pursuing? film, I mean how old are you so I
the one an amazing things was they. I got really rich in a certain way, not financially, but there was always cameras in their armies. Think the books there so much the gravel ass. I want to pick up a camera senior european discourse to pray camera. And shooting something and I can how came out- and I wanna taking time to apply the schools Lie too soon purchase applied to a bunch of art schools inconvenient? I didn't get in but I want a being invited to the fund apartment had seen a purchase and that work, I was thinking. Ok, I'm gonna go here for one year and then we'll see about a blind Cooper union. But then immediately I'm going to purchase expression that school at that time asking What would your so good asking of you? Like? Ok, Do you have something to say? Do you have something you want to say? If not get out of here, the more than they asked of me, the more
I got into film is also the first on restoring the sea in the pan But I do, I just didn't really understand that there was a place and between Hollywood films, Father did until I got the purchase and starts How highly intromission always people in Harare, like oh wow, located a space re between in that that's the direction? I wanna go out over the conversations like with your old man when he started pursuing. You know they weren't big supportive in the way like or whatever you do we like, but I responded to the worker is doing, and even the conversations, even though films that I start making that they had issues with them they'll conversations that they took seriously. It wasn't this thing where they were gonna. Go you have you have it? Are you don't have it? Railways is like ok, this, the others something here, I've issues with this, though I mean I can't
like my parents, it didn't lie about things like how they felt about. If that is not what they so our very honest about it, but they take it seriously and I'd. I also was covering about what I was making and I started purchase. I Cyprus gaining confidence in feeling like okay, this is Whoever is giving me is feeling like worth it and fastened. Or more excitingly. Feeding a bunch of short films. First, he exactly I graduated with my senior film, which is called curtain, carry agenda I'm trying to figure out how to make a feature film and death in New York City at that was changing as well, then the financially always becoming a totally different type of city, but That was the next thing and I really haven't thought about what kind of feature films about was very much purchasing one foot in for
The other- and I was also coming out in this- the stern era of New York City films, that everything fell past That's so distant different, so far away from anything about a war their money are arriving making my I felt so far away from here say that that that wasn't being taught yet the business of films, Now there is nothing about business that found there was no no, and who murder you kind of working towards. You know He started like what were the defining movies, for you like we're coming out during that particular tiny time. I mean, like you, you know, is I got it watching a lot of movie, slightly that I've never seen before. You know- and I know people talk a lot about the seventies or this or that but but, there's devilry movies Edward, definitely
not on my radar at all, and I am profoundly moved by them, as even as I get older, it's like it's like music there's. Never there's no end to do now, movies out there. Then you are so many people land on the same dozen movies in terms of being influential just but there's definitely. You must have movies, you not like the clash, that you saw in your eye holy fuck. Oh yeah, I worked at this hour movie theater, who I was projectionist in popcorn maker and everything on Vandams. She Karla cinematic graph right. It was with me and Jonah Kaplan, my roommate, who you know could see made stocks, guilt syndrome. Oh my god, Jonah CAP, when made their stock or guilt syndrome that I start, and I dont know how he got me. I guess he was a fan of my comedy yea and when I saw it I was I others. There's the guy from Sidewalk CAFE in Nicaragua, village Jonah that guy I know a guy doing
I think he's well. I hope we go out me. We don't see each other that much, but you know you work sitting vice and then vice news is one of bunch of enemies and I think he's today. That's crazy! Rodya! It worked We found a way he did, and I and we worked together one summer at this movie. Theater that way the independent movie, theater tat. We happiness retrospective of possibilities and each week somebody, It would come in to introduce the sound and it was always think it's been desired. One week dancing sound dinner. You know like every week, and I did not know these movies. I did not didn't, know them, and we had the keys to it, so we get Projectoscopes after everybody was gone and to sit there and so John and I and other people from my class approaches with and watches from late into the night and ass with my mother.
Then obviously I know this is like it clearly and understood genius. But for me the first time seeing those films and especially that time I mean I can't even underestimate the mark- I had to see that level of truth in film here I just I just really watched them. Women under the influence like few weeks ago, it just stay alive. These films all stay stay alive. That's a good way to describe it. They stay alive, Yeah I mean, and again I think how asked me for me is somebody that I always go back to how yeah and an old man is. Somebody like these are people that whose films playing a loop had another all farmers later you know I've been since a little maybe suggests I saw I saw a comedy in the theater it came out, but that's it found that I go back to all
time. Every couple years ago, houses found possible the same Sawyer Indices, magic yeah so that there are films that definitely have had life, changing influences. In that I keep thinking about and never trying to go. Ok. Can I make a film like that, but definitely have it I want to be in conversation with them, but that movies that I make. I want those films, the answer and alleys. Thank them for giving me what I feel like I've given to me my life beyond is obsessed with Mc Cavan, Missus Miller for two decades. There was. Some of these films have seen impossible, but only for me pop by is the one that I go back to her by all the time. It seems like the two that type of commitment to that world You take a back seat this Lee and that play for I like that that juxtaposition, again going back to class like that mixture from music
Everything that I want him in the funds they make interesting that's the one Popeye because of the commitment to the conceit of it. It's. It's so fantastic go and it's so much about what this world is it. So I got it I recognise that world, even though it's completely not ours, That some do with your connection, with with comics well I think so I mean I think I've, been thinking about like a one of the things that I would say, has also been a huge influence to me on the has been radio like I would go to bed listening to all radio shows, since, after all, ok. So that was a huge connection that goes gonna strayed into comic books, because that's kind of some humming somebody, those artists, those kind of golden age of the easy artists were working from inspired by and bring
images even number. How and those those radio shows are so so wild and so severe here in their own ways right any lends itself striving to so much of the radio that I still listen to you that, I think, is just as much of the influence that Joe Franker right arm. Jean shepherd like that. That man magazine feel too things on Does the other thing that that was the other template for your brain magazine. That way seeing the world, and that really is back. Nonsense. There is uncertainty about the clash. Gonna keep a man magazine. View of the world is very much, I think goes, Int, astronomers view he had loved it, loved it mad magazine. If you're mad magazine Katy was just like that it was like the secret world it was liking. It was our entry into the way, grownups think yeah. Made everything that was popular Jason.
Cool at all like you're, looking a cool kids men and I called you anywhere like anything, that's that singly It was this thing that you we're still want of. Suddenly you had eyes and how we take this and how silly yet planted the seeds of rebellion absolutely. But when you like pop, I that actually, like you know where you're right now, we should talk about the last couple movies in the evolution of your particular point of view but like like I want, take a white tv movie recently the hunt for thee, welder people and yet Sensibilities kind of amazing like, and yet he directed the thought movie. Would you do a comic book movie? If I did make part of the story like Thea. Thirdly, invent
this increase is yet completely fucked and on credit. It like a backpack could be part of the story. Navy like I'd, want that to be part of our guy. Don't know, I'm not. I don't know anything really about those films, the thought of they gravitate towards. I do you know a lot about where that world comes from and those stories of like the pain and the immigrant story of some of those artists and does the bitter Jews at the at that might have them exactly that's interest tell me and I'd want that to be somehow it dressed like. I don't know how you can now tell, stories without seeing the kind of fact up past that, were there based on no one talks about that amazing having these these people were trying two were, fight Hitler with their work. With these superheroes in their own way in their coming found, just complete
today and there was a chance of becoming which was impossible as all that This is a say like now like their superior. I just don't really know enough. I did get to see Thor because I saw something about the advertising made me think of this. The person that likes Madame magazine, That's true, like I found I found that phone really wonderful like and I found a very play for Thor Ragnarok yeah. I don't think it's something that I could do, but I I found it a lot. I got anarchy that it had. I can he clearly was able to make them on personal, and it shows that Europe has a strong point. Have you throughout his answer, King filmmakers funny But I dont know like that's not I can say that I would know enough and also, I think, with those superhero films. I feel like you better, incorrect and serve their fans. Ngos fans know that world better than anybody and sand are paying a lot of money to be there. So why? Wouldn't you completely satisfied?
everything and right leg, I got something made a firm on the clash in out I'll just look at what everything was wrong in our little know that research in this area, the clash, superhero movie what I mean. You know me like that they should be open to on the level that they are at an that, wouldn't be something I can even begin to dream of doing these already live in bringing these comic books that you want to piss Emma they're they're gonna get his dear, but I I can say that it's like that thing that I know much about right now. Ok. So the last few movies like when you talk about the evolution of cause Ike outward just like carry is that the that that's for the personal story about their kid and then the levers is something. Though, the levers is sort of some sort of I don't know, statistically. It is very interesting,
contained tension of of a strange evolution of a romance here with these affairs Nike AIR Buddy, it's he's right there is. There, is a real human story in there, but that there seems to be parameters to it, that it were very specific that you were working within the United Mean we will contain, I was really I was. I was using whatever limitations and wanted to use the limitations of a guy who's. Your choice, This is also a way that I knew I can make that found that I wrote something to be small with fewer. Sure. That's where I wanted to be an it's. What I felt like what I needed to tell them, it's a great movie and his Grammy. I love those those actors I died and seen Debra Winger in a long time and Tracy, and I have become friends. I texted him yesterday about this movie cuz he's in it yeah say you did a great job, but it but What the french exit I really liked, but it is, I guess,
I guess what I'm looking for his aching. I am we're talking about these, our films and paintings and about all the things talking about is that you have again this range collection that seems to get bigger and bigger of humans and there The concede to the movies is sort of like a it's. It's almost like an and an upper class fable, in a way, and it's not like it necessarily not that I've seen this story played out, but the universe, but but it seems familiar to me, but you have to image help Pfeiffer, who is spectacular, and I haven't seen her in a long time and she's doing something she's never done before, and you got that Canada Hedges, what's his first name Lucas, whose the kind of a brilliant guy, brilliant actor, but like I guess my question is around it. And how a kind of unfolds
Is the white why this particular movie go from the levers like what white What was the evolution from the levers to this? What are you trying to challenge yourself with will? Definitely I like tat. It was took place. Instead of creating the world in like let's eat in the lovers, was inside this all this middle class home right. This was creating a world outside of the home. Is that people are leaving their home and its expanding at its? It was it was something that was intimidating, and it was a place that I wanted to go deeper, like a red and at all over think I read Patchett towards novel french exiting in and immediately was on instinct. Ok. This is why the word where I want to go on any kind of asked these questions are what it requires is personal to me. What is this an action as you're going along, but I think In retrospect,
There's so much that I like about the colonel Blake, take it or leave it arches you attitude that France's has that I would like to have my own own life. I wanted to be around which was like, and I like, the idea of telling a story like not a court of law but important story tat. I got a life and death star its life. Eventually death and and that I relate to. I guess not an underdog story. It's not, it's not somebody overcoming great obstacles in their life, but it is, I think, so, thing of many warm funny world and interesting serious and sombre all these different towns that I want to be around and I felt like it could also bring me to get to work with the people that I wonder working with that the people that actors that would be attracted to doing this are ignored
after that type of actors that I really would like to to get a chance to work with and Began weird, like Michel, you know they bet that whole experience of them going, the gas going to Michel Tracy Lucas an image in like suddenly. This is the thing I dream of doing in answer that I think, I saw that the possibility with a story did their interest enable you to do the movie, how completely like you know is working both ways us work on getting the finance it together in the financing, be together in terms of the coup de cast London being but then There is definitely no chance of making the film I ran out, there's no chance, but became very, very clear, like this was the path of making this film and this is the right path Because the money came from differ
places and came from abroad. Rights are committing Irish co production. I was able to have fun caught on the phone, and so that was a thing that was on top of everything was ok. How do I make sure that this isn't it but I want to make this- is a really different, very kind of on the surface, I think of the of the book. There you gotta made that film, like a x, if which was given to fine, found myself the foam. I wanted to see you something maybe more had enough. The call whatever but less strange. I really like the stone Business of this people in this world to enter and one embrace that from my own way, beyond but that was sort of the amazing thing about it. I guess the the guy who wrote the book The screenplay now did you have we part of that process yeah so back to Hero Terry.
For whatever reason like Terry brought us very close, but then in the past Twenty years now he somebody that we speak every day. Hey like we're just check in that's just the bullshit about random stuff, but here sometimes it's more heavy but women for whatever reason we really do kind of call each other every day, some causing Jackson and get to hear a little bit of what he's working on my talk about what I'm working on, but it does mean that I get a red sun I was before books are completely finished, as I read this in a manuscript form and call them up, said, like I'd like to make this the development of our conversation of how can we turn this into a script happening before the book was finished, and then he would come over to New York wherever I was and we worked together and they send him off on his way and then that can work on the scope kept on going on, Michel came on and Lucas like one week, we had the
We were embraced the book as much as we could as we go through the book said things our messengers and things that we thought could have been clarified and more we go back to Patrick and see if we can involve shift now it happened. Nothing some even sometimes during the shooting, sir, you you a movie where it's going to exist, not unlike you're you're, others movies, where you know they. They are these sing, there were things, and you know whether they please everybody is not really the issue, but do they? stand on their own as as as a piece of of the finnish piece of work, but there is some, that's an ex up on you about this movie like yours. These questions were you. Why are they all staying this apartment? you and I don't know and I dont know why. But you know some point: you made a decision, Patrick may decision that nobody leaves the apartment everyone's going to be sweeping at this apartment. At some point, why I dont know, do you, I
I own mind again that this is my answer, but I think that they find something It's a most interesting place to be. I think, tat what I think of these people. Interesting about all these characters. Is that they are, are walking their own paths, and I think that these- the only ones and then they find each other and their rights, and this is the place that I want to be, and it just seems like you just assumed to be there on that That makes sense to me in a logical way. It also seems like a very basic like yeah, but you're I bet you had the conversation yeah, had a conversation, but also wasn't question so much of going. Why it was also creating a situation where you'd would these characters would want to be? There was a place like it was: very activity was going elsewhere,
The connection was the I understand that in hand. I you know- and I you know it's not your job, to ask why just the way this is yeah and then the questions are asked by others later yet, with China Balance, these kind of things that are saying I I'm saying is what, we're doing all day long now lives. They things they just don't make sense, and how do we put this until one place right? You are Sir Graham, and we got all that time about that happen. That's amazing! There's a cap visibly go back and forth and all becomes one and we just bottles jump into the place, we make sense of that right I feel like that's the same thing with these films from merely citys. They They have a logic to me until they have a logic of over all as a full thing were sometimes within a scene next, where she feel this way with french exit. There's things that happen all throughout the film
that's not necessarily connected to the very next thing. You're gonna see, but wonder film was fit this is a whole. If you, if it's your type, a few. Nina Vaca with you. Why you're going to see it as a full piece- and I know it's not for everybody like I'm dying of thirst and that when I'm making these phones up your that's, not the id. It's a guy! I wanted to find its audience by also it's a really particular story and right. You know. Like a film, I get your car half in the room, all the time, you're looking at story, all the time you, oh, how great take the same. How could this be mine? How can I do not fully There too, the way that one you working with an actor, and you see them. Surrounded by all these people in these clothes You know I'm whatever time and they become completely present its was impossible. Things like magic. Its is amazed.
To me how I had I forced me to become completely presents the only time when I'm making a film were I'm not thinking about emails there, any oh yeah, when you go on when you say action days mad if the whole that the changes time it does, but not all the time like, and it doesn't happen sometimes right, you're watching with films are your answer and things are just dead and gone. How can I get prizes and how can I be there and when it does happen and when you see, especially with like that, is that I want to work with french exit and it just happened every day. All the time were suddenly action and they are there in that moment and then I'm in the other room and I'm seeing all these choices that there's no way I could have seen that there are making and there all in tune with themselves and with each other The great mama ray it's the it's dead, that's what it is
out from its that's it. It seems that's what you feel like a gay whither without me, this fine, we'll walk on its own and yet and had been so long since we'd seen Michel what what were what were those initial conversations about she nervous? She says you were As I was very nervous, I mean look, she added. The complete a different way of working. Then I had worked before and remember like Tracy Latin, a lover comfort. He called me on it right where he got hit asked me. Question. Answer him with a question for you. I know what you're doing like you, you, you Put a question to all my questions and I was like yeah, you know cuz, then, together we would work on figure out the answer and that would become his not there seem like a technique. It seems like my technique,
Michel was implying without it out like. I would condemn she'd asking a question, and I would ask your question think weblike now like what do you think I am and I realize that she wasn't asking me what do I think so tat she could think it. But what do I think about this and makes you expect me to have thought of and of some? about it and a force me go back to my home, and so right out. A question that I could think of an ant for myself. I always thought this is like a precious thing that you can tat. You can come up with his answers. You re supposed to be alive rights, as I do that, for me was just me being kind of power. Like I like tat these things to the ask myself addressing so it was a sort of like your idea What that was was a cop out Ultimately, I think that it was a cohesive. It was his lazy
right, but it was also a way to protect yourself from sense of failure in a way that, like it if you just like a girl yeah. I guess these questions. And then, if you re happens, you're Ike amazing. But if you got the question the answer you can't manifest, then you like that fuck you're, right, do you know any one. I want to if I whimsical acting class in I was going to have to buy in pay terrible act like I know I do They know that I'm not an actor, but I was doing the same, and then I ask that the director, there is something and they still bullshitting me- and I was I oh shit actors You can see this vantage point you can really see bulshit so clear like I have to remember to say I don't know from here on cuz. That's what I meant so much more to me than somebody just trying to wing it and pay. That was like the way that would go like I don't have that answer.
Your question, but above all the scope of this, but didn't me, but ultimately that wander me can I not preparing in a way that I've light I like that. I can without touching this thing, that I stopped, was a precious right, the more Tracy cause, pixie dust in a leg? which is not real, whose idea- and I remember him saying that about the his fashion with demo linger here, you know, in the lovers pennies I guess not pixie places like it's. What we do its work like that were acting is another. You took me a bit to learn he's what those guys man hi, guys easy either he's gotta work ethic. I guess is that this is the craft we ve been doing it all our lives and We turn it on and off. We ve been prepared and we work and their voice you are doing is the voice. I hear my head.
Still, and so when I read trading overriding yeah, I when I saw it, that's why he was not frantic. I read- and I heard this voice of this guy- that kind of had a very is the way that I'm doing things and all I could hear was his voice. So there was an easy come off. The girl had changed the hay. When he voiced baby? I can't hear your voice is already playing on my head. I thought you did a great job man in seeing you again here of the hope. One of these days person? Here we can hang out again in, like even healthy. Did you get the covert or no? No, I didn't and I'm trying Not too I was able to get my pants their first shot. Ago and there that's your back sl I mean don't become for their second pretty soon so yeah system on plugin allies, chime well, it's great to see a man it and I love the movie and his.
This means a lot to me. I write by our citizens yeah, ok that was nice. Interesting film. Our talk causes movie are the french exit. Storing Michel Viper Lucas Hedges opens in food. There is a cross this country, this Friday April. Second good movie, Great Pfeiffer, movie great, Now, let's play some guitar.
Transcript generated on 2021-03-30.