« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1314 - Ariana DeBose

2022-03-17 | 🔗

Ariana DeBose knows there was no way for her to prepare for what’s happening right now. There’s no instruction booklet for being a professional dancer at age 18 and suddenly becoming an Academy Award-nominated actress. Ariana and Marc talk about how getting voted off So You Think You Can Dance changed her life and how she checked herself by watching The Devil Wears Prada. Ariana also goes into the details of making West Side Story, including her collaborations with Steven Spielberg, Tony Kushner and Rita Moreno. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Our friends relish saying not much of anything or, alternatively, the dumbest thing possible bust. Down is streaming now only on peacock. Alright, let's do the show As all right. Let's do this! How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the FUCK Nics, what MARC Maron. This is my podcast wtf. Welcome. Welcome to welcome one and all welcome to all you new people have we'd, hang out: listen, alright, Listen to it! Don't taught will you can talk? You know what it's fine talk to me all you want yell at me. It doesn't matter I can hear you how's it going. okay, everybody good how's that thing to get in taking care of, has been back at work all right is a weird. Is every
back. Are you the only one? There is couple people couple people as no one with the mass education does he won't care anymore. Are people over it where you are dead when just decide its done. What's goin, I would testing with what is happening. Oh you're, going to work at home for the rest of your life. Is that good though, since you get out alright, can we talk later everyone? Good great, listen, listen to me! Listen to me. Ariana we on. is on the show today she started out as a dancer and who is in Broadway, shows like Hamilton, but now is Oscar nominated for bed. supporting actress. playing Anita in West Side story. I imagine that she's kind of surprised about it? Maybe not. I will talk to her about that I enjoyed the movie immensely. I watched both West Side stories back to back enjoy both of them she's amazing, as the sister.
the Rita Moreno part, and I you know I don't watch well, who does in this sense it, how many are there really, but was watching these two musicals and I've seen some stage musicals I enjoy them. I don't seek them out But when I go, I'm I'm happy about it. I don't know why think at some big secret or some shameful and like a musical, you know mean when I decided that are why, where do you think that come from we break it down? Where does it come from I shame of the enjoying musicals by, as many of you know, I anytime I watch him. I get choked up just watching people sing specially in the life of the live ones. In in the theater, but this was great. They were both great and was very interesting to see them next to each other. I talked to Tony Kushner about it, and now I can talk to her Arianna about it. It was I used to have a shiny young, talented performer sitting. Here I was
having a rough week and she kind of lit me up just with the energy- nothing dubious, nothing, weird just like. Oh, look at all the youth and excitement everything's ahead of her and she's on top of the fucking world. She's talented and deserves it. How does that not if you feel good. I think if it's not the right day that could make you feel resentful and jealous and old, but that that would never be me never, is a rough week. When I talk to you, I don't know why I was just hot I saw a week. I guess I should say that I am very proud of myself. in the sense that, there's something going on on stage right now. Whether anyone gives a shit or not. I do and I know what it is. like I'm doing these shows solo, so I'm doing an hour and a half, and it feels like a goddamn play. If we are it feels like there's, Arctic em, there's an emotional movement that were we're going through a lot of different levels of emotion and engagement, o them pretty funny, but different types of funny
I can feel it. I can feel the investment. I can feel the years of work, and there's just something about laying in a bed in a best Western plus in the Laconia New Hampshire, after forming for an hour and a half plus putting it. They're. Putting on a great show having having driven there. From Troy New York I'm just there lay in the bed now added, another time that could seem sort of sad. You know when you think about a performer on the road specially driving a rental car. in the middle of winter to do gigs and sweeping at a mediocre hotel? It could be sad or maybe I'm projecting- maybe you just I've been at those in those situations my life might well. This is said: Missus Ray ended up, but for some reason, I had this wrestling match with myself, where it's like you didn't end up here. This is what you wanted to do. How would it be different
There is no nice, your hotel here that gig was a good gig. There were plenty of people there, five hundred plus in the middle of nowhere. This what you wanted to do This isn't sad, you alone in a hotel room where about whether or not you're going to beat this dorm tomorrow on the way to Burlington after performing. for five or six hundred people doing an hour and forty minutes, forty five minutes, whatever it was, you chose this life and you're doing exactly what you want to do because you were alone in a hotel room, in Laconia, New Hampshire, in a best western plus, does not mean it's sad. It's it. I mean. Could it be nicer? I I know doesn't matter it's not the that's, not the point, I'm not judging it against anything else, but this is I have chosen- and this is this is doing great, laying in bed
best western plus in the cornea New Hampshire kind of just eating chocolate and wondering, should I masturbate, should I not we going to do with his life. you've chosen laying in a bed in a. It's western plus in the Kony, a new Hampshire. Are you going to do it We just can't the chocolate have an orange that you bought for the car. You can orange is that above the car and have some nuts or you can do everything you need the nuts you aren't or to have a couple pieces of chocolate and masturbate. Where you What are you going do with this life you've chosen in this? Amazing life, you've chosen alone in your hotel room, in the Coney in New Hampshire, you doing an hour and forty five minutes for five hundred plus people How do we celebrate? How do we say I'm free I'm free. This is the life I've chosen. We do
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guy, all the for tuna. Just came to him seemingly can do The thing with a certain amount of focus you know, is a. children's book writer, a director and actor in kind not quite a comedian. a while I wouldn't say I won't call him a comedian but tat writer, you know of it already. Does it all? Does it work made a lot of money, successful guy and turns out? after the podcast. If you listen to restock nice guy and we We kind of hammered it out. You like I, I cop to being- a young, older and slightly better and judgment though in and he after me or copy to that I, after that being a reality and that you have Ultimately, it was ok, not a bad guy. That being said, for months. It seems like months. There was some air pod. In my at thy, found him on the floor. These airport prose, and I can
identify one. Yes, sometimes things go. We at an I just found to my ear by protein who they I do know they were, and I don't have airports I use. The booty fino had sat with the wires and whatever is airpods in ear for months, didn't know whose they were. Finally, on my how do these even work? It's like it's like finding an alien you flip when the thing a light comes on idea, I had now idea about airports, so I the airpods to look at them. Cuz Maybe I should get some, I don't know, and they came up. My phone, as Benjamin's airpods and my crew. The fuck is Benjamin and eye I asked Brendan my producer MIKE. I just these airports that have had sit near for what seems like months, belongs named Benjamin and it'd be Bj Novak and I'm like oh shit. It must Bj Novak Oh now, I've got Bj Novak's airpods and a kind of try him, but
I'm trying to do the right thing. You know it doesn't matter, try matter not right, but side text be J Equity, exactly what a text, because I thought it was. I thought it was because I figured listen he's rich successful. You know he probably another pair right. You would think you would bought another pair right text- Adam hey, how are you it's Marin, I've had these airpods, studio for, while I didn't know who lost them into, I think them up with my phone yesterday in their beds remains airpods you right eye. Whom he replaced them and I can accept them as a gift or I can give back to you somehow. What would you like to do, sir I kind of I kind of yeah I get em too given to me and he just said: oh, that adds up I'm in Boston for a few days of checking in when I'm back- and maybe I in swing by and grab them? Thank you no prob, disappointed because I thought he
You have gone from other ones. Why not gift them? Why not gift Mark Marin? Your used airport prose pros? and a few days ago, when I was on the road, he said the possible for you to leave the airpods outside, at your door tomorrow, discreetly for me or an assistant, to pick up- and I say I gone until sunday- sorry have to be after that. He had no problem. Weight didn't say, is, oh you still Those cause, I'm kind of using them. I'm trying them out I'm trying them out so on Monday. I texted him back. I said I'm back. Let me when someone will come by or stash him somewhere outside of him at home? Thank you and I hope the road is was good. I said yeah put em up size gave the address, put him in a mug. His assistant came and picked him up now. I don't know what exactly I'm copying too, but I kind of
you like to be around when he except his Airpod pros to his phone and they come up as marks air pod pros. I cannot I guess it's a little things. Folks, it's it's the little things. Will he know like me. I did just try them in then. I clean them with alcohol and everything I married but like now I'm telling you about it binding tell him on the tax that and say look man. I I used by clean them, but none of that matters- I could have told him that, but then, like the fun of whatever happened and I'm assuming something. Did I get so stupid. Like? I? I he's going to feel what I can't use uses anymore, like you know that these are no longer mind there. I thought they were my friends, but now another Mark's friends is just a technology, but still still, I wait. You have seen anything but have changed in expression when he sink em up and they said,
March AIR Pod prose yeah. Okay. So that said, all of that I went out I bought some and they're kind of good they're kind of amazing. I think so far so good except everything's got its own little brain. Everything has its own little brain now West side story is now streaming on Disney, plus MAX Hbomax. elbow on Digital and Blu Ray and I was excited to talk to Ariana Debose and I think we did alright. I think we did alright. Here we are would you get all dressed up for,
Where you been doing. I was at the Academy Award Nominees luncheon, oh they haven't. I want him for the nominees aim. Graduation thank ye. Who is at your table the president of the Garden O David Ruwenga, Andrew Garfield's. Your Garfield was right there he was. He was at the table, Kenneth Bran hours at the table. I talk to that guy. That guy's I mean I like him, his jerry. He The british British is very british and he has a lot to say he's also very curious, and I enjoy that like a luxurious artist, charismatic guy and he gets right in your face, he go he'll go right, it's right here. I know tiger you feel like you're, watching a Shakespearean. One man show, oh totally, absolutely it all tracks his body of work, yeah the amount Shakespeare.
re imaginations or interpretations he's done attracts when we were talking about like his family and stuff. I I literally felt like I was watching the one person most intimate theater experience every I've ever had. I love it, and so what happens if the luncheon is? I gave the like we did. It got the one. Well, they do. You know it was kind of nice because they are one hundred percent acknowledge what was going on in the world. You know which is stifling the world. Reserving blog and I have a part of world- is burning, but welcome to our lunch and near here is your begin. It's you do I'm not begin, but they were conscious of of people's damage. I guess we all ate chickpea something something but it was, it was actually really lovely cause it. It took into account all of the things. There are many many problems in the world, but you know that
They emphasise the need for art and good art. There changes hearts and minds and appreciated that, and also when I think of I think about legacy a lot and there is a legacy with the academy in the legacy is changing and shifting and growing, and it was a sort of nice to see that talked about antibiotic looted in oh yeah yeah now wasn't balance of different kinds of people are here now? Well, all different types of art is psych when's. The last time you had you know a film like Coda shown love like terrorism or a film full of death. Actor. We it's very rare that we explore that knee or that type of work. The sound of metal, I believe was the last time was last year was incredible. The it feels
like its becoming more inclusive yeah. I only if we can do is to make the rest of the country go. That direct. While we were trying to leave my example its attempting here now he was doing a great job in integrating everybody into fiction. Now we now he's got away realise how about that. I really maybe it of wheat over less so where'd you see, though you think about legacy, you can do a little bit like worry where you wanna leave behind what he would you people, remember you, for I all their lives to schools of thought like what I think, I'm doing and like what I think I'm putting out in the world and then what's actually happening. You know what I mean yeah and how are you handling all this? This is like sort of one of these things. Where you know do you feel ready for it's happening. Absolutely not. Are you kidding me
There is no version of the world where you're aggravating your way to your like a Broadway musical person, yeah and now you're, like Oscar nominated actress, has stressful man like it's cool. Do not get me wrong like this is an embarrassment of riches from it yeah sure what is it like? Is it what you set out to do? I mean You know what I mean I mean because, like the life of a Broadway person is a much different life, yes them whatever you're doing out here. Yes, he writes correct You are very kind words dug in there. Julie. I was, I mean into a point on still entrenched in What that is, I miss it. I I miss
I have to pay to rehearse for weeks and weeks and then get onstage and do with a new thing, and do it eight times a week and love the thing as opposed to I spent three weeks doing one dance number yeah well and you know as difficult as stamina. I've come to like both schools are both types of work: both genders sure yea Aviano talk by that where I live. I enjoy both I e The comfort in knowing when you're working in the area that there's gonna be a down beat and then, however, many minutes, hours later, yeah, is going to end right. This making movies saying that I'm doing here, work really hard for it. You know four. Month or so and that's it.
I once you should have seen is done. You don't get a chance to fix it. I hope you are really right and also like it seems to me, like I always projectoscope. I've done some work and in your movies and television, but you're one if you leave the set know you have a great time and you can say bye to your friends, but that's it man yeah like it. Presumably you may never work with these people again or even adding or even hang out, but it's very intense when you're doing it. Yes, but I feel like with with Broadway everybody there's a a community there that actually socializes we do we go hard. Are you kidding? Some of the greatest parties are broadway playwright, but It's also part of lifestyles like I. U, we're playing Donna Summer and it That was a ninety minute show really, but then I walked my happy little ass over to bomb forty,
I therefore and I add my located wind down and others, while others will come from other shows that's a figure about mishaps, as all other shows their people, and you ok I'll, come over and doing it's in New York or like I'd on Broadway in York City for eradicating the thing in each. Each show host every once in awhile while so like, we what big Data Summer Party and then like the Dear Evan Hansen crew, would host at their theatre. I dunno it's the we we you're able to do commune
the building. I really think so important and cool. It doesn't really happen with or without like this out here. You know it's a different thing and there's definitely like a class strata out here. You know people go to their house on the hill and then some of us go to our house in Glendale and I think it's not poverty here, but you know what I mean yeah, it's a it's a different thing all around, as what I can say is like observing that and also being in a different position. Now it's like I, I am b inning to understand why why people in certain positions live in? There are yeah, oh for sure, you know, but it was dancing right yeah. I our desert, ass three but like for real dancing whenever you're wild as born in Wilmington North Carolina North Carolina yeah, and my grandmother, my mom put me in dance.
When I was three he really took to it and like I knew even then I loved it and I also realized ooh you're competitive cause. We ain't watching dance or did you just like it now, It was just something about it. Like I loved doing it and then once they discovered I loved doing it, they started to show me like a movie musicals yeah but like as my now she would, like God. I watched beauty and the beast more times than I care to count or
in my view, I was really into the animated sure maternal glancing too much are now, but I will tell you say: if you look at how those animated films are crafted here, they are they if their full blown musical, sure and coreham of those characters Duke death. Yet you don't realize that yeah yeah yeah, I remember you, are you normally. I remember jungle book that was a good one. Looked father by rises, answers gonna, shuffle Chauvelin around, as so it was gray. I love you that film, but, like I really started dancing like taking its you persistently, when I we moved to Rhino Carolina, Raleigh yeah, that's that's a good town endeavour as our town dress of the area, peekaboo city ideas I'd progressives cycling, ran around midnight exactly a very different way of life, but it was for that I moved when I did because rally was incredibly simple,
for sure the more blogger, but how old, when you move there, starting Ella an elementary school. That is a boldfaced lie. I starting middle school, so I was going to sixth grade which I'm assuming makes me twelve or thirteen, and what the? What's your? What's your background, what your folks do where? Where do they grow up with my dad I grew up. He was not a part of my life by ever ever now, every nope, hmm never sought him out. No, no just no. I never felt the need and as people make their choices assured, I mean I've. I've talked to people. That goes either way. You know like that. Do you know that if he's come out as to find you know, you know, you don't know? Okay, but I'm? Okay with that year, childhood really was wonderful. My mom is this. Incredibly, strong willed.
If she is a public schoolteacher that takes it, as you have strong will yeah, it does yeah and she teaches eighth grade which really strong enrolling. She does she. She teaches at Wakefield Middle still, yeah wow yeah she's great like cheese and she's, one of the greatest educators. I've ever seen in action sure, but when I went black we moved to Raleigh she took we. I went to the school that she taught at so that was an interesting experience zero? Ever teachers carry out? There is no getting away with anything there and then do what about other kids are just sort of like you did they reside here SL, no in yes or maybe just yes and yes, I mean, I was. I actually don't know how to describe myself in those early years, because I I therefore you or I wasn't like. I think I was that art see kid. Soil acetate greatest share a radiation, Ike idle
and I loved the arts, I wanted to go to dance class. I liked The iron vat here I was probably fairly moody, cart, nerd, yeah, sergeant, youth start doing theatre them now. The theatre in high school, ok, but no Grey your dance about the dancing I was in. The concert ban played the heck out of a clarinet I'd tell you. I was pretty good can you do now. Nope gone, It's really sad, but I do remember some of my theory a little bit of my music area, which has come in handy. Has it being yeah being a vote First, an artist I can, you know, make my way through Sheet muse. and in an odd oddly enough, I've been in rooms where people what I do can't yeah, like. Oh that's interesting to me. So what was that theater experience wagon in high school? I was it's being a great dancer here and I'd been high school in high school and I've been to ones that look like. Are you doing competition? Yes, that sounds good.
to occur. Yeah I was a studio. Debts are competitive. Pseudo dancer till I get you watch dance moms. I was doin that my mom was not dance mom, not at all right. But we traveled up and down the east coast going to like she would take yeah is it's me and my mom driving car, sometimes we'd carpool, with other, like single parent families here, which was great because we created a sense of ourselves, but we went to and competitions that were really cool cuz you could take class all day and lots of different styles of dance and at night doing the route. is that you would works, only weaken thing. Paul weekend with money, if which a bunch of from all over my although the country, by your, like really the EAST coast, and so oh a lot of my friends that I really connected with were from different states, and but it was, it was great cause. That's it sort of was like a precursor to my adulthood. I have friends all over the world. Now
oh yeah, I have friends all over the world and its lovely, but that was a really formative time, because I was meeting so many people, especially choreographers that I would come to work with later. and so I who are doing like you know like so you think for kids, yeah clinic for kids or or alive of them work are queer grafting on saving canyon nance for ok, Fox. Tell him right in that. How do you needed that is eighty? So what is going on the personal I've? U runnin around from town to town. Are you just dancing all they are you like you? I am he himself crazy. Well, I didn't do it that way we are, you know I shall do or dedicated rights or wages working. However, everything gets well. Yes, I was, I mean I took all my academic clauses in high school, but I was in every arts class known to man. I would you like. I was vice president.
Of the chorus club I was helping to like you know. Oh my the dance, the dance department I was in the concert band. At one point I was in the marching band and then I became a choreographer for the color guard. really yeah who I spent rifle. I was actually really good and the color guard I loved it. I loved that. I don't know that culture, color regimens, are the regulates fire. You can't tell me anything when that drum, like a is every it makes such a big difference in a football stadium. I'm telling you guys yourself, a marching me. I I saw like David Byrne did something with the class, and I saw guy interviewed him around that and it was- and I was watching that stuff, it's crazy, crazy. It's a whole culture, it's a whole
culture as Erika does discipline reject, is almost military and away all that, but I mean: is it a culture that goes into adulthood? I don't know it seems like a view of it, you a job, you do a job is no forty or overcome still doing colored. There might be teaching the other work so well. What do you? What kind of dance are you focusing on? What is it like see? I have a hard time like in toy. I kind of think about you Why can't you in terms of like what is future of a dancer when you're, when you're a kid and you're going to be a dancer. How does one make a living? It seems like there's two ways right I'll give you dancing in one kind of show where you you'd answer. Another kind of show yeah. Well, I mean that it's. What my mother was sort of looking at with me cause she was like. Are you sure you want to be a dancer? Yes is the only thing I wanna do and at the time it was like you'd go to L A and like dance and
Los Angeles Hollywood community dance, the gigs. For that really I mean like somebody goes on. I guess he's on road, if you with you gallery or who one of their dancers and then now we well the how many years different Artists are now having Vegas show so silly Indian had her Vegas show you could get a job as a dancer National go marker year a year juniors, depending on how long they keep their residency and how long they want to contract you for excitement rid of it. The life you go gig to gig the gig. You could do music videos, that's it later that must be competitive as Hell L. Incredibly, incredibly, I mean I won't I it's already dog eat dog year. At this point it still is I've brought to a it always has been, but you could It was that path or you could go to New York City and become,
The answer in a Broadway shall rise. Actually, that's really. What's available to you there. Unless there's dance work available, wanna to television show or for making available, but it seems like a good sign it it unless you want to be condemned. It answer in a company or a ballot answer again in a company but its round I can be limited, that's a different way of life when I know nothing about to be honest with me because, like it seems like when you're you're supporting a show, like you know, a dad, he has a background dancer. It's like you've got a guy, that's like oh we're all going to do and you've got a thing going, but I got imagined if you're working with Twyla, Tharp or or or the Alvin Ailey bunch they're going to like near twist you and do like you, don't even know, what's going to happen, you're going to push your personal limits in a different way. You do. I would agree with that statement. What they do is I mean especially wouldn't want think about anyone who is for Aly and Twyla yeah, it's own counter cold.
Why and its mall it run all because not not everyone can do that when you have you had so specific and specialised, and it takes a different kind of deflect and discipline a different kind of maintenance on your body people, don't we lies that as dancers like. Yes, it's very magical. What you get to see us do on stage but ignored Would you be able to do that for you as an audience, it takes a lot of maintenance on our body and self care, and when injury happens, if it happens to a certain degree, it is crushing it is career, killing the end. It's the end, and so you after I always shows how young people, if you love this, you are old warrior. They love it here, because one thing could happen. It could take to take it. from using very awkward there. You are you're, naturally be an again out of the, industry, acknowledges that and they don't compensate dancers for in that way, in fact, typically relegated to the background and asked to be asked.
Volunteer. Our services that up frequently like what you mean free, yeah free, they want why answers to work for free for me the videos milking artist, their artist today, still doing still doing that or saying I will pay you x, but then it takes five months to receive said payment like I kid you not, but the biggest thing I've noticed from you know. working on Broadway to now doing what I'm doing here from injects. the position. What my colleagues in the dance work-
to argue India as a member of a union, I am guaranteed payment for certain m. After a certain amount of time. I don't have to wait. There's some dancers, who are doing gig sue like a year later, still way Nano Jack Toy courage and there's no accountability, bad actors in all their partner with White club owners. It's the same kind of thing! That's why don't you ever run in the thing and they always have an excuse like what we didn't get the moving from the guy. You know it. There's always do here is got a problem or even just down the like safety if you're not a nobody, that's an arrogant and with what the odd thing is like you, I start to realize it. When I was talk, I'm talking you now, but thinking about its eye, the eight its. of all the disciplines of art its it's a smaller community. It is. since the jobs are what they are. You know, and I imagine these people that aren't getting paid, there's gotta, be this whole other world of you know. bi be level
actions that people working there asked for they don't really get seen, except maybe a community level or regional aid or level and all that stuff nights. It's it's interesting because it's like, there's great regional work to be had for as an actor of course, but it's beaten at our beat it out a wall and gosh one said it to me recently and they were famous, but they were like now about like the big favor, It's jobs that you get like being here in this industry is about outlasting everyone. Yeah, I mean I was like. Oh, I get that on a visceral level that lasting in one way or the other in one way or the other right. So so you do the the Fox show yep in that the big break. I don't if I call it a big break, but it definitely. It redirected me to New York, and that was the it was my first big brush with
rejection? I was on season six. If so, you think you can dance and is there first and only at fallacies and ever and I made the top twenty and then I was sent home the first week of competition and my God, what a brute is to the baby baby ego out to age in years old, and I was voted often from six million people but mind you. The ratings on ABC, like Charlie Brown, in the great pumpkin, where Meyer than that the declaration nights viewers or maybe not six million. No, it was every six million or that legs ten million people were watching drive around the gray pumpkin morning. When I mean real, but it was still tough because I was eighteen and I didn't fully understand what I got myself into. If I'm honest, I thought it was just really about the deaths and the craft for you in it still how did show
So now wishing you are really thinking in terms of the business know, why would you could try to ten years old when I dont know like I like? Some people are surprisingly, do gather and ambitious happy land. I didn't. I wasn't one of those you don't want to be. A dancer are correct. I was my native day was really showing due on that one by, but it with them. Its natural though I mean, maybe your purist- I mean it sort of paid off me. I imagine that down. but I imagine a lot of people that do that. That's the last thing they do in dance of some. like you how they did what they did in its like? Ok in their parents. Right, sir, well. You got that out of your system. Great now, what's your real job, yeah yeah? What's your real job and you didn't have to deal with that, Well, no, no, but I always had a really a really strong sense of self! My mother, when I really wanted to Hamley voice yeah always I know I think I'm an alien or something, but it's
Lisbon. There was good parent. Yes, yes, it is near. I told you, we are jailed woes harass, but she said what I moved to New York. Yours like well, I don't have any money to give you here. You have what you have rightly. You can always come home and I was like I love you so much. I will not be doing not hands her home and I didn't and we want you New York after you lost on the show. Well, I ve way of color we North Carolina. I attended Western Carolina University for about a month and a half not for you it was not what happened I just I had already had that like semi, professional taste of work- and I was like I can do it. I should talk to your personal life at this point. What personally nothing, nothing else, just dance, dance, I'll, totally devastated, yes, competition now. You know it's funny. You bring up that. The word ambition I used. This is I'm going to go there. I remember watching devil wears Prada in the theater,
my watch. A movie somebody's see it's like a good rewind totally, but I remember being a and I left the theatre crying out. So am I to ambitious and it was like, I felt so checked by that film cause. I was like of your watching Miranda, priestly you're, watching Andy's acts to women in different positions in an industry, but they both have ambition and it's like is not. It wasn't a move that the perils of ambition, but it was just like What are you going to stand for? What are you going to write exactly I I recently I I I wrote it down. I said because I know people I said ambitions, not a point of view. No, it isn't that is very profound, sir. Thank you. Yeah, because a lot of people have and in the end it is, you know, rewarded, and it is taught almost that's. I mean that's what your motivational speakers do. Yeah but You can have that and be very annoying. Yes, yeah, that's all you're working with I I think so
and so you have to check yourself, though, like what did you have to like your question yourself? What what, in terms of your offense intensity or what well I mean, I was young. I was still in high when I saw that movie be, but it was very am that was around the time that I had realized. I really achieved a certain amount of success. I wear dancing, and feeling there were anymore challenges to be had said that when I really dug in the theatre of I checked my son off by pudding, putting myself in a circumstance with I actually was not the best person in the room I was not very good. Remember was regarded. This was in North Carolina, occur guards every school. Ok and I ended up following the path of environment where I was not the best in the room. I've been all the better for it and that then you'd, even when I left so you think you can and it took me to quality. I went as us,
it had in their musical theater program at the time again, great dancer, not good at the other disciplines. I really had to work hard, but I still was like knowing I'm going to go and I'm going to dance I'm going to go to New York, so I did and I are different for everything, but it took me a minute it. I was not an overnight since success. What happened? What facility who you sort of well. I don't know who I was just like I miserable I gotta go right, yes, but what what happened? Well, day I got there here. I landed in New York and I actually had a. I had a sprained ankle and I wrapped that foot up it yeah for a stint in one life to live star, cross lovers, Syria and amuse glazed episodes, and I looked up- I don't reckon.
The re doing that cause like safety first sure, but I got the job, but I had to wait for like a month and a half for the job to start was good cause. Your ankle got better correct right, so I was sleeping on my friend's couch and, like you know, rationing, my food and getting up at five am to go stand in the non equity law. Equity of China. Addition beer, and it was a lot of that over and over and over again, and I my mentors Tarion Charlotte Charlotte Dump was who is an incredible well bred in her own right you would know her Roxie Hart in Chicago one of the greatest use measure bigger Agua, driveway people, Terence Man, you would you may know him right now from foundation on Apple TV plus, so, where me with them. How, then I went to does that? but the when was it. When did you? I was in high school whilst I have and when I was in high school theatre,
Gator camp that's where I met then, and they re like it here becoming York. Last. No! Ok! So like all this is in high school, you you'd start exploring theatre, because you know just dancing might just be a life of competitions and disappointment, and you want to broaden yourself. You broaden IRAN. I arose right your higher Verizon's and then you kind of crap out a car I just didn't like it didn't like it, and then you decide just go to New York and you're like I'm going to call Terry and Terry and Charlie, and they said I could check in the kitchen and honestly I didn't check into like a month or two after I got there yeah just cause. I was like. Let me try to sleep, but you got the gig with the broken ankle before you called them. I did I have something to show for sure it I know it all worked out pretty well eventually on musical which, like
opportunity to learn how to make the musical Keziah it wasn't immediately going to Broadway, we were developing sores work shopping, it was workshop being and then we did an out of town. Try it try out in Atlanta Georgia, business work was really quite extraordinary because I was there going to college to learn how to do it. I just I booked a job and they taught me in real time. The I agree honestly, It was a great opportunity with Andy Blinkem, Mueller Lindeman, while Miranda Tom Kate Jeff. but he s and a green and many of those folks. I've gone on to continue to work with a vigorous Hamilton. When I saw you let what year really, I think so away. I can't- when I saw it, but then was still in it yeah. I was in it if Lin was there yeah yeah and it was great because he he He was a fan of my show and he gave me the good seats.
leaving and I do not at the end of every park ass, I say: Boomer lives, you know it's mild cat better, but it was funny because he knew Jaguar cities or at the curtain call. He looks right out make us. I I saw him earlier today. I love him for that how's. He doing he's good nice guy. He is a nice guy. He is very generous with his and his spirit and his energy, and if he he doesn't say things he doesn't mean, and I do enjoy that about him. So you're working with all these people and workshopping this musical learning the game and that and that how? How does that musical? Do I'm not? I dunno about Broadway musicals at much how to do the bring it on it did pretty. It did pretty. Well, I mean honestly, if you know anything about the Broadway industry. If you run for six months due respect, it's a bonafide hit, have you ever run nine months? Yeah wow, you really got something on your hands and if you run for a year while, then I'm going to throw statues at you, so this was your life. It was my life your like, and I did it here. I am
Broadway person. Yet you do all these shows Motown, the musical, very different from bringing on, and then I went into Pippins and then I went into Hamilton and TAT that was so each time are you learning new thing gangs? Yes, every area shall I do the singing coming, and when did you start and that's a good question I mean I I New York and realized. I needed to be a better vocalist, sir. I've, and the entire time yeah yeah I mean. in bring it on. I had some I would also like to address the lovely and then I had to you're out how to sing Diana Ross tunes If you work with a coach, I did work with. I've worked with a couple of different coaches over the years. Yeah yeah, I know Fines worthy as my current my current. go to and how's that work. You call and you hope that they'll take you what he do in the coach section
I've gotta one vocal training who just taught me how to make a brief and find my home. I own thing: you're learning the away. I left my singing Wake Amory hand to me: you know he ever. I guess I don't I don't it's like a mite gum, a closeted musical person, in this sense. It like I always like them? I don't see mountain I like to sing, but it scares me cause. It makes me very emotional, so I kind of I don't embrace. It which is I use. Are you afraid of your emotions? Not but you're frayed them, I'm afraid of failing is a singer. Sorry, I was too. I got over it, but I told I like watching people saying I didn't you What's a you on journey, mostly, I am music. So then I got better agreeing a singer area by gonna bunch of clubs late at night and get up and try trying to things
and you know what a karaoke or just one hour leg like now. I've got a mirror covering hooker. I got different areas and, quite frankly, is lot of really bad you to visit videos of meadows IST, of me getting up and trying and sometimes failing I guess you just gotta. Do that you do. I do. I think you should, if you want to do something, just go up there and try it. I've been singing in public what, with the like cover, songs and stuff and like I did it at this place, where you know where I was comfortable with the audience, and just you know I couldn't, hit this one note and I knew it yeah, but I stay and I said I'm going to do it again. Yes no. What did they clap generally horrid things eat action of vulnerability to the one on it is often and honestly on. My favorite vocalists are the one, and that your leg are, they gonna make it. yeah. You like this is why under present respectful but Edina Men's l, incredible vote.
Close, but there are some performers, I've washed her and I'm so in it with her and then I'm like go hit. The note she got hit the no and she hits the note and you're like yeah. I know there's an anticipation to it. Yeah, that's a yeah, that's it! It's like it's like! So how does the opportunity to do this West side story come in how familiar were you with the musical I what was it but before we before we do that like what was that Donna Summer thing like that was a big deal huge damn. I booked a break still the musical and the summer musical kind of at the same time and it was around the weekend for Hamilton. Ok, that's kind of unheard of to book like two in one year. So those two musicals, produced by the same people here and I don't know why they decided. This was a good idea, but I saw me and Hamilton and said: let's bring her in and see what she can do right and I
ended up getting to play Jane in a Bronx tale directed by Jerry Jackson Robert in Euro and then the same breath there really grain also liked blade disco down a summer life there. Many Donna summers there are three differ, Donna for different time periods of her life. Here I play Donna at the height of her musical powers, She was intimidating, so I had to go out there and confidently sing, Macarthur Park and hot stuff and baby. Yeah he's worried all day. You'll know from me. I am yours, for I have a that. One Heaven knows that's what it is, but it way the real challenge for me, because that that show forced me to come went to my own as evoke labour rights and I'd never tried to em like I was not trying to
personal data summer pariahs. Why would you do that? That's a terrible idea! In my opinion. I think I think that sort of the going thing to that's the the going wisdom on that day. I e all because then it just sort of you can mimic Ryan. I just didn't see the point I get the via the via Baltica for the essence and soap that that's what I tried to do in shore. I found some like she made very specific vowels when she was singing you know all have this Tambor. Nobody sings like that, any more, the honest laser. I dunno. Maybe they can question work. I was just gonna coming back. I guess it just integrated a it's all under there yeah. I think it's I think, it's time to start well, I mean kind of like silk sonic. They kind of they're getting closer, getting okay right. I actually don't know who you're talking about it's an Anderson Pack and Bruno Mars did a thing called: silk Sonic and it's like it! It's great. sort of like waiter, Motown kind by like seventies.
that's a job. It's like, I think, so, that work on what I did just like, there's a groove to it that almost approaching disk you got yet the rock I well, I well! You will fall in the eyes, em an I'd millennial and I dont actually understand many pop culture. References for you I don't I don't know when I am an old man, I'm just saying that. Did it just a project, the two of them are doing together, love that and they're both kind of like weirdly. You know that their interesting, Allen SR, so you doing down the summer yeah and everyone has to reckon with you as a vocalist you've arrived. This was woman, can sing something like that. Will I'll go with your version of the world on that one, but yet it I become im a tony nominee, I'm a tony nominated actress for that performance and I'm really proud of it, because I you know, with the help of
Sergio Trujillo. Who was our criteria, for I will turn this version of character and the one that actually was a triple that role. Well, you know someone a character who uses dance to express, how she's Trimble, Throat, Moose Dance ACT and sand sing the same time, the area and, to that end, Was it really is a rare opportunity because on Broadway, even to this day, they're, not real making roles like that, though it was cool to interesting. What are they doing there like? What do you mean either dancing or you're talking or you're singing no bears I mean everything is cyclical at one right, people were really writing for, quote, unquote, triple threat right and then it sort of shifted and it began to favor. What Call the park and bark the stand and sing it'll, come out to your you do your scenes and then you sing really really well press everyone and no you don't move your car. You walk off the stage you take your bow and you are, the singer: doesn't do any of the dando, not a single, kick ball change, and but that was a choice. It
the trend trend. I think I win my professional, show the politics so the evolution, then you know just in in the short time you've been alive. You know once you sort of all of a sudden learn the mechanics of how musicals are built, and then you earned you know sort of like what are the positions one has in musicals and then you know you get these. The goal seems to me to be: was at point you be a triple threat. Confidently, all he's been. It's always been the goal. Once I came to the got to New York and realized. Oh there's a space. is here yeah and that I actually have. I the capability, I'm capable of doing this. That did become my go. I wanted to be someone an artist who did all three disciplines really well at the same time, and so Donna Summer just happened. It happened to bring it together
what's mom doing out during all this time, moms teaching, but does she like opening night parties like she's, always my date for things, yeah, yeah, yeah and she's, very much like cool? How that goes. Yeah how'd you meet will be careful. What you say like remember, you have to like say it and whether you could be her but also be firm, because we don't let people walk all over. I was like yes, mom you're, correct yeah, so he's goin on your Tony nominated. Now, how does how does this thing happen? How does it happen that you get this up? turning to do you have a Nita, Cindy Tolan are incredible passenger open mind queen that she is yeah. She seen me and on a summer neurons had apparently I just figured itself had been asked take me to come in for a side story and I
I had told my agent at the time that I needed to focus on keeping my show going. I needed to show up and lead my shows, an audition Donna summer. so I was like no. I need to be Donna Summer again, you're, like on Broadway person, doing Broadway real interesting, the movie thing, but we're you know what we do. They're really doing. I'm doing this Broadway thing right out, yes and and then finally, they called and were like. Can you come to Brooklyn Ex day and I was like well fine. I guess I'll go and now can't believe. Then that was my like approach. Demand tangier cards, you take the trans. Only not. I took a train. I lived in Harlem at the time to go to Brooklyn and if you know anything about geography here, that's quite a train ride. It's a slap here, but I got there and I went and down narrative Steven Spielberg, wasn't there thou yeah but I didn't know that and I had to
sending the night before it and no go an amber. You know and you got there when I got there and walked into the room and his is lovely, charming Steven Spielberg face was there was a there huh? Yes, My hero here they were both in the room, so that must have been like you just been like. Oh, if anyone has learned anything about me is that I am a show. accordingly anxious artist and so are you said Paul Rear, What are you going to do here? I told Cindy that I wasn't going to read for tomorrow. That day I was like oh monastic dance me, I'm not going to do the sides because I'm not prepared, I couldn't possibly be ready in time now for music always there like, I guess it would be on the first audition, but there's no sort of like five six, seven, eight and oh of course there is oh, yes, I walked right in and they said Craig come into this room and learn the choreography. Just impact is going to do you and Pikachu
of choreography, and thank God I, on the further yeah I speak desperate. I speak English though I had that power then the singing I knew because it's it's Sound Sondheim's, lyrics, Bernstein scorers. You know well aware. I got my stuff, it was the sides that got me cause Tony said: I'm goin to adapt the hell out of this script, who definitely do any day the besides, which actually are not in our film, but what we were auditioning with credibly, wordy lot of substance, and I like this, something that you walk in and you paraphrase or younger make it up or you thought into this sure sure we intimidated by I was material, have not done that kind, acting before not really no- and I also was like this- is not for nothing it is a great opportunity to be seen for something different. No, it's a musical here! Are you
do you have real acting jobs and show that you have the capacity to do this. So how did you pull that together? Well, We got to the moment where he was a crate. Can you stay and read for us and I said no, sir Berger always face and I'm pretty sure he looked at me like I had killed a puppy or something and then the Cindy tolling rushed it was like remember. We spoke about our Yonah. She starts in IRAN. We show here we got ter last night she's just asking for a few more days to be prepared, at the end, thank God he was able to hear me and he looked at me and said: you're not going to read today and I said nope and he was like, but you'll come back like I really would be on it. That's kind of like a big risk. Car, oh,
Paul's cohort as like I'm just singer. I get if I was an actor you'd, be like sure I'll I'll, give it a try and I'll give it go. Yeah, let's eat him, but you just didn't want to fuck it up. Now I didn't, I really didn't and it's on every and it had enough confidence in your dance. seeing and everything else knew that yeah well, interesting someone Kenneth Branagh, said to me today and I'll. Never forget I loved watching your performance because it you, you doesn't feel arrogant, felt like you just you had a confidence and you know I really appreciate that because, as in some like. I know that I know what it is that I know, but I also know that there is a lot of stuff. I dont know here. You can stay here, yeah, and I was like. I appreciate that when you call you can do show up with who you are yeah. I was like, I know dance, so I have that to offer you hear the other stuff, thus collaborate
wait cause. I don't know what I dunno right. So what did you do when you left with that with those sites I went home and studied you didn't? Actually I went to do my show that I study, but you can study with anybody. You didn't have somebody read him with eat and, like you know, get like somebody do. My best friend he asked my best friend is named. Jonathan Huberdeau is a better actor than I and we went to theater camp together. Okay, outside the theatre cap, no coaching, no training, acting everyone's I took an acting had taken my camera I took crocodiles, allows ones I didn't last very long, but he he does give very good advice, so you just got Newton. I took Matt Newton's acting class. He was great the seasons leaned into it. Read it over with a friend, got it in your memory. Yeah and you just do. Do you speak spanish? No, I'm not fluent I grow up with it, no idea
you know your new year s horse, I am not mean I'm out of electing a mighty, others is put her again. Ok and again didn't grow up with him sure I get, but that doesn't make me less of what I am it will. I walked down the street, I'm a black woman to half the world and if you know our border Reagan, row reacts yeah I can see you know you have as yet, but I mean like, so How did you learn spanish? I took lessons and in fact. That was one of the reasons why I was nervous about accepting the job does. I am very aware that there is not enough for presentation and the industry in my in my opinion, and, quite frankly, just pact I didn't want to take this job and then not, do it well or if I, was: if this character was going to speak Spanish, she needed to do wait really! Well, you did it really. Well, I mean he seemed like a you know, you're from that part of town, I'm guy. That means I did my job and I'm no.
thrilled big armed me with light all the different coach, how giant I'm so workin on. I dont speak spanish public because of the honest with me when I get really nervous and then I started to study and I get the words wrong cause I still have maybe as part of my own baggage Your trauma like I carry it in the language like I get my tongue, Starts to feel really Mary, and I can't speak so. Your guy, coach language, coach, yeah and english coach, and you do those takes. Were you like they're, like you know that one word? Yes, exactly that I know there was constant. It was constant and that's how I wanted it and Victor Cruz. I have done without this man named Victor Cruz and- and Tom Jones. For that matter they were coaches on the phone. So and when you go back what happens? well they put me in full hair and makeup which that never happened to before
so they made me and twenty da- and I did a chemistry test with two different Bernardo is one of them was David Alvarez and I did read the scenes and I thought I think I did a pretty good job with them. Yet it seems you did and then you can click and then the next day, and you got the parlor near the next day. He called me from an airplane, save his bill for called me from an airplane and asked me if I would be the Anita and it was the all this moment as in a nail salon, a crying silently it we'd like Temple, allow my nails and it was, it was one of those New York moments that I was like. You can't make this shit up now, why does Xavier is cool and then he start work now before we start work yet did run the show He offered me the part in late.
early October. They didn't announce the casting until January, so I would keep it a secret for three months yay and then we started freeproduct in in March and we started shooting in May at so wait. How familiar were you with the original Ray familiar. I mean I did you I should again no you didn't, not at all, they do in addition and net. What what would be the plant trying to do a tighter now, of course, number I'm just curious idea. Now, even thinking about debris recycle because I mean the Euro cushions the challenge of taking what was already a good musical and making a version of it. That was both on that one did not. You know right, so is everybody was sorted in that position like how you going to make that better? just make, a different version is what you're doing right, but I if you're watching the old one as a dancer you'd pick up the dance getting like a sea position.
There is a different style them absolutely word. Jerome Robins, like that choreography. He had a very specific language here and I'm very while versed in it. To be frank, Geronium do I do. I know the legacy of drone revenue that comes from my mentor. As you know, I was trained by some of the best in the industry in regard to my dance training, beer, and so I didn't need a refresher, because it's part of what makes me you me so weren't you start from scratch with everything yeah. When do you, when do you meet Rita? Who did the original? Can we get you to It met, Rita Moreno. She came to. Our big were her so is he and we were we had sort of like community, show and tell days so well, producers brought an folks were living in San Juan Hill and nineteen. Fifty seven
we'll come and talk to us and talked like what was going on on the blog actually was going on with viewings yeah. Really we are an irish gang member com. We, old people yeah, yes, like brought in our elders to talk to us about their lived experience came we had Virgin yeah were keen yeah. Sorry, I got her all we're. Who is an expert in border regions? Daddy's came to talk to her and caution There are just so many different examples of that. That's interesting. It's helpful like we're, telling new generation. She came on day? with them and to talk but her experience making was, I'd story down and then, in the middle of one of her story, she stood up as she goes. Weight
Where is the girl who's playing Anita? Where is Ariana, and all my colleagues I just oh, my god, I wanted to die, turned around and stared at me and pointed thank God. They were, they were copying supportive, but I immediately turned red and I stood up and I was like hi and she goes you and me got some talking to do we met then what was that talking? Oh eventually, I came out of hiding and I took me to lunch and she was like what do you? What do you want to know? anything you want to know, and I just said I want to know anything you want to tell me: did you want to know things? I wanted to know things about her right here, her issue. Where did you what she wouldn't ask before I did get she would first only latina to win and ask, and you like, if you want it would be while, if you want to ask for the same part it he say, what do we be it? The amazing but also sort of a kind of us. It be a great thing but it be kind of telling about the industry.
the only way of lieutenant. You asked like these oscars for the same. It's cut his reign. While I had a could be interesting, it's not often that happens. In fact, I believe Anita would only be the third character for that to happen to have let you has one Oscars since not for act. Well, is that wild, so it would be. I think it would be incriminating in a way to, but to do it when you guys, though this is it to a need, is where, in a hundred years his hundred year, look quite early that having sixteenth interesting, but it is interesting, but I can tell you that the Irish I choose to look at it this way because everything's choice here, if I'm the fur first of anything we're? That means. I will not be the last sure, so it's like if, if these things happen, if the doors can open great call analysis. more people build a longer telling them. That will that's? U amazing thing about even watching the first one
the original, because you know it's accepted as the mayor as one of the best movie musicals ever but because of the time it was all brown face. There was not a right and that's just a reality correct. So you know the difference between then and now is profound. It is and honestly what you just said. It was like. That's the reason you you read Adam was I'd story so that you can allow Latinos to play latina through like kind of period. blank or weaken Revere the sixty one film for four craft but that still doesn't mean they got everything right. You know so I don't know I just think gum. I think, there's a lot of work to do, but I'm excited I'm excited that people are seeing West side and embracing it. They are included in a very, very buddy real life, yes connected, so many built real, tangible, dynamic characters that it's a privilege to play in their characters. Though The victims of actors would like give their I teeth, for there is sure, is
amazing, arguably, is one of the greatest written characters of all time, but what Tony Krishna gave me was like the connected doc. The end. She is a well written and it does not come along every day yet and what was your relationship with him to during the shooting that? How did that work when you guys are doing it he's on set? And he, oh, my God, script is king for him. He and I I do love that about him, but we're just very open I was like come tell me what you're thinking I drafted line. I know a doctor line. Do we need a like? We always out of dialogue and inspire work was like what lies the three? No I ever saw It's it's very collaborative, and there wasn't a moment where they couldn't walk up to me. or I could go to them be like this doesn't feel right. Why doesn't feel right and we look at it on the page or watch it back on. You lay back and work it out.
I think we all understood we could not get to the finished product without each other, you're, not even so that they really cool today may reside in this industry. This facet of the industry, there's no headliner inside there. No one below there's, no one, above all, on the same play in those like four Steven Spielberg to feel that way in a musical is no longer any major environment industry and how we celebrate each other's work and how we view Egypt serves no there's, no headliner, there's no above the limit. well below the line. There's just the line. I was like that's cool That's how he treated us onset. That was his process. There was no above or below the line. There was just the line, it's an interesting project for him to just decide to do it. He I think it took him. You know so
go along time for him to get the courage to finally do it engine. I e to you said the other day he almost back down of it. His wife, Kate, had to be like you're going to make this movie here. So now, you're an actress. Yes yeah. I I I know it's like you're in the middle of this, a whirlwind had it: when are the Oscars, when I was twenty seventh, but soon it is, So what has come? What has happened since like what are you getting offers? I am actually and it's now
ace. I've never really gotten offered anything before. Are the musical dream? No they're not, and it's so great it's a hurry. I should read feedback or not. I was actually really worried that your vote because, like I did the prominent shrink of dune and now a side story, and I was like that's a lot of musicals and I want to try something new or challenge myself here. So it's been really heartening that things I'm being offered a great thing to do. Google's do you have it is a part of you that wants to do. Do you want to have a a recording career? Maybe I'm just waiting for the right, epic I'm not trying to be? Lady gaga! I just want to sing like singing I am I am. I do I by no means consider myself a pop star right, but I do love making music and I like, when I do my cabaret shows and cars. Have them and I enjoy them so much. I treat my audience They are in my living room. Do so
I'll get my mainly down. Could we find waving seem like a show? That's a cabaret show real May I help you like I'm, going especial shot as Cabaret show like yeah well or something I felt like. I guess that mid word did some stuff like that lies Manila, like that, I mean the variety showed the Sunday and share with all their yeah That's a little different. why? Why wish you? You know all the breaking legs? Thank you appreciate that and there was great talking to you- you did a great job. You are awesome. Well, that's very nice and by the way, you're really beloved, like I can't tell you how many people were like wait until my show
Shall you be, gentlemen, I am sure you're making me not all. I really. You are not a Bluffed. Well, that's nice to know. I need to hear that occasionally. Thank you. You are welcome. ass. Ok, that's me an area on a debate. As I said earlier, Westside stories now streaming on Disney Pleasant, HBO Max. Also bail, bond, digital Blu Ray and don't forget, simply save home security. You can put your mind at ease. Protector home with the system named best home security of twenty twenty one by PC magazine popular science and best home security of twenty twenty to buy news and world report. You can customize system for your home in just a few minutes at simplisafe dot com wtf go today. I a free indoor security. Camera was twenty percent off, with directive monitoring. Go to Simply save dot com, slash, WTF
and now I'm going to attempt to play some slide guitar, because I had Bonnie Raitt rate near the other day, and she too, one of my detours through an open tuning the strings are too light and the she's too low, but I got off on and this is me just fucking around with a slide because Bonnie great tune by guitar. For me. The
the.
Boomer lives, monkey in the Fonda CAT angels everywhere, where the.
Transcript generated on 2022-03-30.