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all right! Let's do this! How are you what the fuck is? What the fuck bodies? What the fuck me what's happening, I mean mare- and this is my podcast- welcome to it- how's it going. Are you all right? You, ok. been traveling. I just I left Tulsa, sir. Tuesday morning arrived in Pittsburgh, I'm going be tonight I'll, be just outside Pittsburgh, the Carnegie of Homestead that haunted place than to me, on Friday, I M in Cleveland Ohio at the Mimi Ohio Theatre than on Saturday. in Royal Oak Michigan at the music theatre next week, Washington D C at the Kennedy Center on May Twentieth, Red Bank, New Jersey, at the count Basie Center on May twenty first and Philadelphia at the Keswick Theater on May twenty? Second, I know you got devotee of Pardon calm, Swash tour for, information on these dates? I know that Detroit and Philly are are getting tight.

Let's talk about the world, I'm not work I understand. I've been rambling on an aggravated and trying to stand firm in the face of it. a fascist momentum in this country. I know that eight from This blow has been down to the women of this country with this. Seemingly unavoidable Returning of Roby wait. I get it to degree that I can get it. I think it's fuckin terrible I don't really know what to do, because It is a tremendously shameless and thorough authoritarian move. Eighth, a christian fascist move, that makes it clear what this future will be. It becomes difficult and sad, figuring out how to fight it. There's never been something as definitive Inter

of where we're going as a country in terms of the theocratic. authoritarianism? I mean it's happening on top of that The state I live in has no water and fires are coming. I know what's happening, I'm trying to to handle it. I dont know what to tell oh you, I dont know what my job is right now, other than to you know, comforted dying, patient but tat. But Doobie brothers are here today and the guy who's the director of the of the Bob Dylan said these are nourishing things, don't centre was varying mentally ill and socially nourishing in terms of just standing, NI shadow of one of the greatest sort of literary and songwriting and physical artist of of

all time and trying to relate on some level, because you want to see Like your kind of like Bob Dylan right so getting to work, it does books on my guide carry run no books in scribbling. I'm too, I'm just like Bob Dylan. I go. Oh no books maybe one day all my little notebooks will be open in a museum and know everybody a look at them and go. I haven't even understand when he wrote, they re. Dylan's. Writing I can't read mind so I guess that makes me more expressive in some ways, more challenging them Bob. because I challenge myself to try to reach he'd what I've written on a post it but look it's true, I am talking to Tom Johnston and Pat Simmons? of the dewy brothers Or to the original original members, both on guitar and vocals, and they d want to ban for its entire existence. They have a new memoir out called long train Runnin our story of the dubious brothers, but before

As I said, we I talked to the dubious, an entire to Stephen Jenkins, but before that, I'd like to do is talk a little bit about a reservation dogs. In my experience on that set because I've missed you not cancel My data dynasty typewriter, because I knew that stir and hard YO has asked me to do this shower. Cast me on the show. I would do any to do it, because I do think it is one The best shows ever made. For a lot of reasons, primarily the reason that it is your native owned and operated to a degree, obviously effects as the is the network but this is a native operation and through this Joe. We see and feel the point of view, the way of life, the humor, the spirituality visa, the the cultural sort of influences, an impact that come in and go out of the native community and It's never been seen like this before this is incomplete.

We groundbreaking affair and I was thrilled to be part of it and to be on the set, was great. Because it was totally collaborative completely diverse. and an interesting eight was either I'm in Oklahoma, with aren't you native people you're getting there, Point of view and being part of executing those store. Greece- and I was thrilled and I just want to go- some props to the people that were involved, obvious. We stir when harder by The writer Bobby Wilson of the episode I was on, which was great stuff gold cheesy boy, that's the name. The ever stowed stay goal. Cheese boy that Bobby Wilson, so he was around and he was you know it was fun talk. that guy I'm working with that guy cause we're doing a lot of improvising and the the direct your black horse low?

was also very open to improvising, as was sterling, and the other actors were great as working with a bunch of kids at play, the guy who run sort of a recovery halfway house for these key, it's an cheese played by lane factor has been put in there the guy run in the place and the other, the other kids were great Rinaldo Panella was, played this guy who we are Travis. Thomson Patino he's a wrapper from Seattle, native guy, Cameron. Alexander played the James Age, a vault in point, yet throw in those are the kids. I worked with I always wonder like what. What am I supposed to be doing? What is this character? But then, when I get there, my well he's going to be me and then, when we were just riffing, this guy who's, this kind of quirky You'll get. It was really written for me per se. It was written sort of more as a kind of Marines, drill, sergeant kind of guy, but I just point amazes color

your weirdo who had this life except France's cranky weirdo and am we're just improvising, our balls off you know any they would encourage it, which is rare and fun, and I no matter how how good the episode comes out or want anybody thinks of the episode itself, the experience of making these guy, especially the director especially a black, low. I had him I have had so hard and, like my job is done. I didn't care, how this incomes are? They guys laugh it so hard. It is like in beautiful, that, unlike that, that's enough for me, if they could do whatever they want. With this thing, we got some laughs going man, it was just a great time. Tulsa was really, as I said before, I saw those concerts and stuff and Bob Dylan Center. Oh and the the real surprise for me, which I didn't know if it was going to happen or not, because I am a big fan of his is I got

work with design. Mcclarnon who plays big cop reservation. Dogs is also been in a couple other stolen, harder movies. You know from work The world's mother studies are very definitive person a what if a kind dude- and I do not- I was going to get to work with him, but not only Daggett toward them, but we hung out for quite a bit on the sat and talked about stuff about the you know, sober life, stuff being of a certain age and what not, I hope I can get him into the into the garage- back in grand. I think we're gonna make it happen. We talked about it, but that was just another great. Do your part, of doing reservation dogs again, hang out with that guy and can get in home, so I hope we get it. but he's he's funny and amazing, great actor, but so the Dillon Bob Dylan Centre, all sort of

I want a weird place for me and I I got wind of it through Peter Shore who hooked me up with Jesse Dylan, who hooked me up with Bob Dylan's guy Larry Jenkins, who then hooked me up with his brother? Stephen in who is the who was the director of the place, and I went in and I looked at it and I had a great it's a completely immersive experience, there's a lot of amazing bits of ephemera that would you call it artifacts manuscripts, no books, the original tambourine that visa hey mister temporary man was based on artifacts from his our Johnny cash. His phone number three lit the spiral notebooks Eddie was due to in writing the lyrics to were what on that acts, I mean it's all there, just the recordings of things it never been heard before and look it's Bob Dylan, and Stephen as your here when I talk to said, there's like a hundred thousand things that they have the Woody guts the centre is right next door, it's in the same building taught in

inspiring Tulsa is its own thing and it was pretty great and Bob Dylan Center, I just looked out on being there, so I talked I've just had to job of the opportunity to talk to Stephen Jenkins, the door after the Bob Dylan Centre in Tulsa, just how its grandpa putting on Tuesday and you can go to, Bob Dylan Centre dot com for info. If you want to be MRS me, talking to a Stephen Genk so there's some questions. I have leading up to you talking about the archive like the Kaiser family, I know I can- I think, I'm TIM Blake Nilsen is related to the Kaiser he could be.

I know, I know he's got Tolson rule he from here a lot. It's a real motley crew of folks who it's interesting because you have like the there was a there is from a jewish family, he's a jewish guy, and there was movement of like EU after I think after the Holocaust, they spread out loud. Jews came from Europe and there are like yet we got it he spread out. Let that happen to strike out like these out or near. We can't you can't get. All of us are very high level, but the Kaiser families or family in there just of their old school. Ok, it's yet very true George Keyser, who I finally have the pleasure of meeting, I haven't been able to do so through the whole months months. Song, interview process, but I let him at our opening night dinner, just the other night you I'd be I've been get to know very well the executive director there as a foundation of just a mention of a guy can love it and all these other folks, but Joe

urge to his you know deserves all credit as what I'm gathering a couple months and he's really sort of the patron saint of the city you I've jumped into a Buber and the driver First thing says he are. You knew too Tulsa hey. Have you heard about George Keyser? I mean yes as it got there, sir much civic pride here and what he's been able to do for the city first investing in early childhood education with an eye on you know, equity across every law, I'm here, and then doing a lot of civic enhancement. So we ve got this beautiful park. Sixty four acres right around the Arkansas River gathering way, that's the gathering place a really really lovely spot bike trade all through the city and its very outdoors ie and then there's rich arts and culture ecosystem here and now he s and will be a part of that, the I was it. The Keynes ballroom three nights in around ninety suit with unbelievable. That's a story, a nice. You can feel the history there. Oh no, you definitely can't so went so he did

also by though the Guthrie Archive it so Keyser require the Guthrie Archives and the Guthrie Centre Open and twenty and thirteen yeah, and has done very well in with a whole range of programming. Looking a country's life and work here really with an eye towards sort sort of the social conscience, social justice aspect of what Guthrie has stood for and if I can make a sort of a contrast, the dual centre, which were just about to open up the public, is, focused more on that kind of unfettered creativity. I like the way there was framed in that thing. I really is a compelling to me the idea of a restless creativity like I never really thought of him like that, but because that sort, if it's a great courage to the kind of label it yeah, it is struck a chord and as we were, who came up with that young digging through the archives in the archival materials themselves were suggesting narratives and suggesting context, and because we,

the Guthrie Centre here and we have established the strong focus on cuts again, the social justice component of what an art it committed with three chords in the true can do yeah Dylan, of course, who does the same to this day, even in a sixty years on from the foe K day, we thought, wouldn't it be fun to really really highlight the crew. eight of instinct and the creative impulse and the process and and we found that we had say forty pages of lyrics for the Song dignity yeah, you know, rewriting revising doodles in the in the margins of the manuscript pages but when you see ten thus versions of different stanzas from Joker Man here that you can now at innocent scroll through using interactive elements. It it tap into this idea that Dylan, who you know we all the royal we tend to think of as this, how low genius who somehow operates-

This lofty realm. these song spring fully formed and perfect here. Well, it's heartening to see that even someone of this caliber who, let's face it stands alone, is, is it cod the grip of the song that he can't get right. Oh yeah, it's like a math equation like it just becomes a you know the poetry of it yet was it's fascinating because of course, of course, these guys that much work, yes, but somehow, despite the boot legs areas where we ve now over the years, heard earlier versions of Soviet, seeing the handwritten lyrics and crossed out, you know axes across a tie. Britain line so many pages, so many pages, so many lines, things that look bad we ain't, but obviously you did DNS didn't pass muster for young area and so through all this these interactive ways. I think visitors are going to be able to push through materials and get a sense of of the application of craft and

getting the word right getting the phrase right, but it is if come here. He has not, so you know peers Here's what we know, Bob Dylan very, very happy for his archives to be acquired yeah by again the Kaiser Foundation and to find their permanent home air and tall sat next to woody. He next woody, so that had to figure in knowing everything that we know about that. But you know the debt. he's paid in a way to Woody, actually in the in the early years of the risk. But if a handing over a mantle from the elder states or into the new coffee House kid and of course, then he went on to explore so many other different musical idioms. But there's there is definitely a through line here. think as well. By all accounts, Dylan responded very positively just to the vibe of the city. He liked the folksy was meeting. He asked acknowledged that he was around he was he was. He came to the Guthrie Centre. At one point he had entered into conversation with the decision makers around all this. He respond.

Very positively, we have a wonderful museum here with a very historically important collection called the Gil crease. And the girl creases strong in documents of Americana the emancipation. proclamation is right here and also who lab here has is a copy of the declaration of independence and very strong, a native american art and culture and, of course, we're on native american Land and Dylan felt. That the city, is a whole- was recognised, seeing that lineage properly and it resonated with him here and so once the deal was done and are doing. did agree to make the towering gate that Greece, visitor, as when I say that he was it an iron work are least he toiled away in his studio on this metal work and its it's fantastic unity specifically for that he did at sight specific. So there

I was just working at it a few minutes ago, yeah, it's pretty fascinating. He said we could go into a whole thing on what that might represent salvage pieces and bits of metal of iron stuff that he welds together. Yes entering into this wonderful abstract form, I happen to think references american industry. Here you can see, may be the dying out of tradition. There yeah canals idea an honouring of of you know of of hand. His childhood. Apparently that that did Minnesota was a big iron mine place yes, but walking through the museum, it very manageable. So like it it's over, warming to a degree, but it still that that that primary space, which I imagine is gonna, stay relatively permanent resume well, but there will be a lot of switching in and out a material, be cut out their authors off and before it on both floors, though the chronology that Sean will Lance Youngblood, the brilliant Dillon scholar, essayist and historian, has put together for us, that separates

Key moments in Dylan's life out into nine Arabs right and you can read it as a chronology, but you can also go backwards to forward. You can jump into the middle that I think, provides a good framework for the air is in the decades and of course, will add to that, because I dont forget there's an archive and a centre devoted to a living artists bright, who will always be outrunning us and we will forever be chasing after her. How much do you have me cause? I mean how much stuff is they're all in between physical objects and pieces that have been digitize, particularly the recordings they have broken out into individual tracks, also known, as stems we're talking, bout give or take a hundred thousand items this crazy, I am obviously that not all that's on the bootleg series, not correct and is much more here. You know it it again. It's the notebook. that he kept out of an open market. A pocket is losing its pan. Little spiral

spiral. No, because now you get these most in books, but back then it was as little spiral absolutely. They had to put our two drugstore now those orders or like three or four of just the year of the tangled up- and we sketches yes I bought on the track stuff? Yes, that's pivotal! This is sort of the holy GRAIL. I think for the heart cause it would knowledge assists. Is it there had been whispered rumors all these years, Dillon kept these small notebooks and he was working on reworking in revising and crossing out. You know: that's we'd of songs that he became blood on the tracks are known as the blood notebooks out. Really yes, well sure enough one. We got the archives, we found the two other note, but was the one who had where would these in, like a house in Minnesota at the farm or a desk drawer or a cardboard box? Dylan? her always espousal of don't look back, did think enough to keep this stuff, which I find an interesting paradox that we're was most of a he. He was keeping it an occasional heat handed over to you know his manager and folks in the office to say I suppose, I'm parent,

using badly? I don't mean to put words into his mouth. We should do something with us at some point in the town, I came in twenty sixteen to find a home for all this material and sure we aren't also spread out over. Like I mean I know he had that farm up in Minnesota and then there's a house in L, a and there's a apartment in New Yorkers just everywhere it was everywhere it was collecting and stacking up, and occasionally you know, shipments of things would would sort of in the New York office lacking and our fates? Like you, harmonica elders, like it's crazy, the tambourine from the term They hit temporary man song. How did laying horns tambourine held together with a band aid? And, of course you know we retain all about. That's the beauty of the switch financial means that is in archive all of this came to us and it was just this really unprecedented trove, I must say for you like when you got the gig, and you know what was that the most exciting thing you know

I am still discovering the treasures and- and I hope to be surprised daily, as I think our visitors will be as they come in, but you know seeing a letter hand written from Johnny Cash Bob with all this wordplay and puns, and you get a sense of the friendship that they had the mutual respect. Yeah and there's reverence there, and there are aspects of the archive that show a kind of weather they're from Dylan himself from his compatriots and friends. Here you know this. This is a guy who we you take seriously and and and we treat with the utmost respect, but there's a out of a reverence and wit in there, and I sometimes we forget that. But you know this: is shape shifter. This is the joke stir. He is he the Joker Man of which he speaks a that's a whole other conversation other even this stuff, that phone numbers in his wallet, Otis Writings Business, Carthage, crazy that that stuff is still around it's here. It was in his wallet in his back paw letter. He wrote to Hendricks about watch out beautiful. He said you know it's hard enough to see into one's own soul. I feel that way

your version of all on the watch tower you ve actually seen into mine. This is I didn't one long paragraph on a kind of onions. In piece of paper, it's so great to see. Just don't like why. Where was this stuff I to eight It is somebody I don't know, it's very interesting will either Dylan himself was keeping things there. You know he was in receipt of, for example, get well cards after his motorcycle acts, and I you know we we might keep our own get well cards, but they're, probably not from the Harrison family in the Mccartney family. So we that stuff, you know, fan mail by the volume by the bag of incredibly moving letter that a soldier wrote when he was in Vietnam telling Bob if I can use a first name in this context, Bob urge your songs on the radio I'm out here in Hell in Vietnam. I just want to get back home and touch my family, and you know you're you're helping because I'm hearing these songs on the radio there are so many of those sorts of,

reminders of the very personal connection that you all of us have to one degree or another to this. This body of work, but the man behind the to react to what we know, but what what's also just rights striking me now that, through all these different phases, even These were yeah, he kind of fell out of, like you know, what's going on with Bob D Ass, the boy again years well, but those are good records, but mainly, but there were periods were, YO has relevance, was sort of diminishing and away, but the through. I no matter what he is presenting on, say: where there is worrying this white face make up the rolling thunderous Christian. Whatever is it's just that writing? It's always. This Yes, you. I could when you watch the sum of the cancer footage of what was clearly a christian performance. Yes, you do, you know he's not doing anything other than being Bob Dylan, but it's just a context changes, but he there's something that remains Constance, when people are always asking like who he saw Lucifer. Who is this guy if it's all right there

it really is yet we yet we keep asking for more. You know and that's the guy gives it gives the as yet there's something about again. There's this elusive nature at the court and and this enter. Is you know? Our intention is not to say, look. We finally got a hold of the stuff we have in the one thousand items here we just look hard to Nadia. Yes, but we have it but we're not trying to say hey Bob. We got you figured out. We got your number first of all, what's the fun in that who wants to reduce the man who contains multitudes too. Easy, simple answer and also something he's really put a boundary up to being easy. That's the one thing that has been able to do is not be reduced. Truly, I mean people make fun of his voice or they can parity is song all surface issues because it doesn't even stick when now that's a great thing, but the interactive element, which you did very effectively with the little I

aids or whatever, yes, audio right it, but they're they're audio guides with the really just most of its songs, yet, you know, there's some interviews but they're just songs and they kind of pushing the place of it. That's that's the intention and counter to. If we can such you in Greenwich Village in nineteen sixty three for a moment bia, if you feel like you're, a little closer to being on stage during the rowing thunder review, tore it. If you can, you oh step into his shoes, if you will were looking at the uniform, the cost, that he wore in the film masked and anonymous, which is a great little hidden Jem that not a lot of people have seen. You know we we have this stuff but it's more than memorabilia. It has to be otherwise where the Hard Rock CAFE and no knock on that that's a fun experience. I won't see little Stevie guitar later, that's great, but you kind of inviting you go, get your french fries here, it's it's! It's storytelling its narrative, its context and it's what you as a visitor

bring to the experience. You know your emotional connection, absolutely if we're doing our job well, we're presenting the information and the cereals in a way that both rigorous so we re urged as any archive and centre must be, but also exe possible and open, ended and in why? How did you like I'd, read something about that? There might be controversy about the Thee, what six songs that were selected as as these songs of these errors that that there's gonna be push back like inaccurate picturing, this sort of weird community of Dylan nerds that are good Has there been? I love those still in Meryton. I am one. Thank you very much. Listen bring it on good, natured debate. You know why the man in me, you know what. Why not lay lady Lake. We were talking about the sick songs that we go very deep into at the centre of the Columbia merits gallery. Where you have these quadrants. You can walk around and you get

all this information immaterial around the writing of the song than the the recording and producing of it, the performances of the song. The way Dylan changes in rearrange, as so often on states throughout the years, and then what fun to is you'd, look at and can consider how the songs have. Second, third, fourthly I yeah. Let's talk about the man in me for a moment, you know what would have maybe been thought of as a deep cut from new morning there's still a lovely kind of Sunday morning afternoon as well as the album title suggests. with the man in me an team, Burnett then chop plucked that out and put it on the soundtrack to the big basket right and it's sort of took on a whole different life. It found a different audience Congo, so we have a film clip from the Big Labelle Ski and there's the dude he's abiding sail the great Jeff bridges any and you can sort of about how does a song change in that context, and maybe, if you, if you skipped new morning in the early somebody's you'll go back to that one. So, yes, we are. you sick songs. If you don't

like those six first. Well, something is wrong with you, but you know come back in a few months and will have new exhibition displays for six different saw the how you can do absolutely so. There's such an embarrassment of riches. Here we can come up with another six and upstairs he had the painting some painting we got. We got our villains. Oldest known oil painting from nineteen sixty eight yeah, you know, and in the ensuing years he's become a really. He plays himself quite seriously to painting these wonderful landscapes. We have a suite stills of that, is done in twenty twelve that I think, will really take people by surprise. There's a cinema in which Oh yeah, starting with a forty five minute Programme of Dylan Videos and films? So now you have appointments on the books of scholars. It want to come absolute, and even before the centre proper opened innocence. We ve had the materials in Tulsa. They ve been in an archival space over near the skill crease Museum, which I mentioned earlier.

We ve already seen a couple books and dissertations and studies and as he has come out of the materials and yes, the academics and scholars are lining up for the opportunity to come in. You need to the accredited we have vetting process. But of course we want to make this is accessible to folks, possible. We don't keep precious, objects in you know in locked box. Yes, the idea, is to make this material available. That happens in fifteen thousand square feet of public exhibition space in alone, happen in a quieter library like setting free scholars. Ok, well, thank you. Talkin was great and gets my pleasure and also like what what do you think that is going to happen in this city? How do you like it because it seems like, as you have the west, Miss Burns and runs out of water that a lot of these sort of like cities within these states are going.

However, this influx, I think we're about to have a boom. I really do. I would love to think that the different centre will play a role in that sure I have to think, as will help put Tulsa on the map in a different way and folks will come here, and I really hope they stick around, because there's a lot else going on here: Peters and artists, fellowship programme, that's bringing in a really cutting edge folks from all around the country, others a program called. Also remote, where, if you are a digital, no mad and can work from anywhere out here. Guess what you get a ten thousand dollars, he meant rise a calm and essentially bring your intellectual capital to the city. We we gotta go in. come Natasha very go big promotion for Tulsa thanks! Oh, that's where I thank you all very goes back eyes on it, while he's just like rolling that do Stephen Jenkins

Bob Dylan Centre, dot com is worrying. Go for information. I think that's the low down. He did make it clear to me after the interview, because I didn't seem to ask him, but it must have stuck in his head that he didn't get the job through knowing his brother, who, working for Bob Dylan for thirty years. It was You got it on the level you want me to know that. I believe, seems like a very on top of it, fella that guy so now an opportunity to talk to the daily brothers. I thought everything Do we buy the sun's? I remember singing black water in the miniature school bus. That is to take two fifth grade months. day school and we would just sit there with the radio on another kid: singing black water. I remember that choice they Grove come, and Jesus is just alright by many there's a lot of hits and I thought like sure man I'll talk to the dubious,

Oh, what a fool believes listened to the music law, train runnin taken into the street. It keeps you running. You know the songs, don't you! You know you It man, you get it. Do we rather, so I thought I could talk to Patent Tom Pats him and Tom Johnson The memoirs called long train running our story. The Doobie brothers. it's available wherever you get books and I got two texts with third com- a baby. If you have to Harley Jean Jacket is Harley Davidson, Jean Jacket of my house, so we're gonna texting bodies now and he he had great things to say about that sort of trust. He loves the movie the when shown film that I am the last one shot from the I I acted in his big fan of that, but here they are the Doobie brothers.

And half the time, your time, your pack, it's weird because, like I know you guys, I know your faces have known you. I feel like I've known him, my whole life. I do. I was trying to figure out when, when did black water come out what year seventy five, seventy five somewhat Because I because I remember like being in a little school bus singing it with a bunch of kids and now ass- I do because I grew up in New Mexico, but I guess anywhere, you grow up. The do be brothers. Dogs were just everywhere China, Grove everywhere black water was everywhere squeeze crazy because, like one Ask me, like you, wanted you weren't, you aren't. Are these guys, like, I guess, I'd better safety. Grant refer the guy. I mean they're, like

I can name like everyone, their heads I can sing most of them, which is good. Is it because they're just in there, man they're in there, but so what major. What made you finally do the book who talked into that? a guy named Chris yeah taxes, doing that what was the deal? they just said to you guys. You gave a story I met. Britain has a much better than I did when I met Chris, he was and still does, write for the Huffington Post yeah. I do these occasionally Motorcycle events, antique motorcycle, it ass where we ride crust. Country on early motorcycles. In that year was nineteen sixteen in an earlier motorcycles, and is it your hobby right now Are you saying you know kind of the the old motorcycles have been a hobby and then writing has been since the writing has been. You know something more recent: oh yeah pests,

in ten years. That's something you want to pick up when you're older yeah Allah, the bike. When it goes down. They don't go that fast and really it's it's it's you know it's like it on a carnival ride hours an hour you're not doing motocross. No, no yeah, but you know it's a it's a competition, but anyhow, so he came out to to do a little bit in her interview about that. and then we were and after that we were doing a gig in San Diego YAP for five years go. Maybe yeah, and then he came to gig. He lives in San Diego, so he came to a gig and I was sitting around talking with him. He says: have you guys ever done? by our biology ass. Any is anybody ever written a book. I go. Think so, but I think there s something years ago the idea as junkie right and so now I said, will you you know you guys should do something right, and so

oh he kind of camp. This idea don't want you and Tommy write a book together because you guys started band and it would be interesting to have it from your perspective, because you been there all these years and started it here, you are still doing it. It's crazy. So he said I can help ease the eastern. you're, just gonna book, with a definite with John John Oats sure and so what happened to Hall he wasn't eating will be part of it. I don't know that he became hall of friends with John, and so it was from it was John's, It's always interesting limited to the like in I've? Never talk to anybody and abandon there weren't fuckin problems. it's that's part of the diy. You know what I mean like. Sometimes I can't understand it because sometimes, like you hear about guys who they break up right after they do their big record and it's like the fuck happened, but I mean look man, I guess

there are knowing their annoying. It's I don't know you guys. Ok, he our fire, You know it. Human relationships are complicated. They are it's kind of like a big family. I mean sometimes you go at it sometimes you down sense, as in most beyond the stage everything just work. So yes, that's about the married we, I guess it is this point, like I, don't know how many guys were like what Did it start originally? How many guys we're in the original been every album cover, always member that Germany or are there? There were twelve nine things happen, though I am, I know, but like it, that we see eye to eye with the region- Before I mean the actual dairy brothers band really yeah, there was a band that fed into that powers in a different band, and where was this isn't San Jose? The whole thing started in San Jose. Now is that where you grew up hey! I didn't really. I didn't. I grew up in the volume by sir. You were here the North Bakersfield Array

So it's like a great place to be from yeah. It sounds like your neck, as I get some everyone says what I just said, where I don't mind that but Bakersfield is a music going on in Bakersfield right they used to be country. I guess I dunno what's going on in the valley these days that are like who was so like when you guys, so you moved to the Bay area. I did What college observed? They said so how do you guys mean? Well, we were in that music saying that was around the area, which was actually play active way. We ve got a boy and a club with different. He was in a band. I wasn t playing with my ear, was even sinners, this is like it. It's all we're, not thirty. I know that

but I mean this is like you know, but that's like the peak of it right. It's crazy right wing militia up and it was, it was very active who were the people that were around when you were there in San Jose, where there are people that we would know now that daily now in San Jose's, most most of them were in San Francisco, as you said, when you guys put the band together as one who, how did you find the other guests while John Hartman and I started a band together and Saturday, he came out from from Washington DC Bass, player and his and he wondered meets, gives pants lot of. They got to revolve around the whole moving our agreements and I may escape at the time you did and yeah came around skills introduced us really, so you guys knew them be great gas. The area because skip like that that album or has been ring issued in I have. I have it and it's like it's almost disturbing

well, he was he was a little out there and what was the story with that? Guy because you listen to that record and it's got it's own time zone it's like, and I thought initially is like. Is he strung out, but I think like they're easiest, he was just a little mental right. He was diagnosed schizophrenic, but they didn't get around to diagnosing it until much later. We all had fun and did whatever, and then they decided to diagnose. I think, european? I wasn't a good time, for his condition in Europe too? And so Cynthia who serve on and I think that really triggered him into a worse state than he might have normal, What happened with a few guys, like you, Peter Green, was like air from loud MAC like, but I know you know you fucking with acid happen any of us. You know so. Ok, sir skipping, you out at that time, Moby grip pretty big there. Big act when he started already happened, actually be isolated. We talk and sixty they were big like you talk

a ban, but other big album right, but they work has, I believe, went out another hour after that, and I liked it. But then after a laugh and- and if you read about them anywhere, you can take one yeah. I think that first album came out somewhere around sixty six, sixty seven good record and then there's the two covers the one with him flipping people off and the one with them not reflect that was all done in Santa fell right down to fourth street. Was that crazy. So our it. So you guys the base where he comes out from DC withdraw drought, our programmer John Harmon. He came out with a friend of his, has put her and ended up living in the house on twelfth street, which is where everything kind of happened happened, but He and I started a band which was not the three of us Give me a banner was alternately metal. Well, not mental caviar ox given here an hour and be with horns action there. The next night might have chick singers and will be we gotta go

in Amerika where all of the map and we're just play? Where were you find a place to put them down its nuclear sure and there We played a gig with the skip yeah the couple either he was gonna play gig with care. I remember what are here and he got John and I to coming to take their place and we played at a place called asked. Gaslight theatres, I guess I do if it was actually the old Campbell movie, Theater Campbell, really just that was on the suburb and that's, and so and you just quit your band. No, we just kind of got to be friends and how nice to govern Jim, with the guys. how old? Are you guys that very few? twenty one, twenty two Amazon and well. When did you When does it start to work to jail like when you because I mean you're so much competition did you think of it. That way, Like anybody know now areas we were

I didn't find doing it. It was a great thing to be doing, but honestly covers right. Not really, we wrote a lot of songs yet early early on, we started writing songs, yeah we just just seemed to like many things in this band, it just happens to rhyme or reason it's just whatever it was going to happen did and we did some covers, but a lot of our material was self Panda, then we just stem the songs. Yeah failed at the time that we defend here sure and want to solar jamming yeah yeah and did you were? we're coming around they take it after a while having the right off the bat we were planned represent. The arrest is places we play like golf courses, you're getting around here. We ended up at the chateau and that's when things start to power and we placed by the menus where it was a music venue that people came to your music ten. We then it was always a very good response, but you know we play with stuff where we were just. You know.

sure pizza, parlour gigs, yeah yeah in a wedding card does desire does say I don't remember anything about it. I just know it was just that it has to make noise to peep to make people but get the beginning like crazy, evolved and sort of it has, as you guys sound like to do brothers, but in the beginning, with Digital, like how much the air. What with it? What was the sound when he first started where you harder Wes? What is that I get them. Why me like, I would say you know who it was I was kind of who we are now. You will have your, whereas obviously go background that real diverse, but it s sort of divers year. Pat, does a lot of things picking and was with a scratch and scratch, and they were really really good country folk and place it was just an oddball. You know the athletic thing: a bass player, drummer, violin player, okay, that I came from like rmb and rock and roll and alright. So it starts to mix up. He said all that together and yes, what you get where you guys gonna shows back then urea whose ray

I used to our still learning about our drive out for the weekend and crash of my sister's pad and said Claire I have to all day long yeah. I saw it Albert King was there for cream incident, prevented me from seeing that, but was that that sounds like a good story or it was the acid incident. What was it now that I got kicked out, but it was at the Fillmore. I saw Butterfield there a lot I saw you know Jefferson airplane I play the devil play went through all that stuff's going on. I can't like every time I talk to you do do with you that I I would think that those kind of things stick in your head forever. Some of those shows- They were, they were pretty amazing, specify that aid I mean I was eighteen again. Yeah and very impressionable yeah cat is, if you are in the hate at that time, and it was another universe man, it was crazy. What was it like did it feel fun,

well, yeah cause, I mean it did kind of go bad at some point about a year later it only lasted for your mean. As far as the summer I love yeah, yeah and then and then speed hit and ruined. Everything is that the story was the store at an elegant, around a watch that they, as what I heard, did you know any those Grey there goes. I don't really know the. Why are you so? Oddly enough, I just met and spoke with Bob, where low bed at last year, a really first, I let arose spoken to Jerry, had run into a couple. A tiny played with another friend of mine. Saunders with organ player and stuff, but I didn't really know any of em really well because they were over in the Bay area to write, Palo Alto Area way back. Why Jerry? What have you startled me is how you ask yourself from that same area, I'd sir? What happens? How do you get the record deal I We can sort is sort of thanksgiving, events, got us into a studio in Samara Tail and we just went up at some demos, absolute written now, where are they?

unless we get sign on the strength of the moon was work. in the end, our department. He had got no gig as alive snare. During various odd jobs around that was his first position, the idea he wrote the little biography recently. That's really a good read of it about an hour later. and so he was work and there he had been in a band called Harpers Are, they had done a wreck of couple records. I guess for mourners and then he kind of went to work for Lenny Moore Incur Leah. Leni was producer there and had heard that name he's like a big producer right for year. He ended up as active. He is at this point place still around oh yeah, Lenny Wawrinka. He produced a gun, James Taylor. You proposed all the Gordon Lightfoot sure enough. All the big big heads, it's weird

Gordon Rivers thinking about him. The other day I give I could read your mind like if that was the only song he wrote, it'd be enough, great. I really think I haven't you prudent and publisher, very so Oh Teddy was you know, just look kind of they would People would send in demo and he had a big pile. They put him on his. You know him. in his box. He would go pick him up and go into the office and sit there unless and the tapes- and he heard our tape according to his. scripture. He listened to hundreds of tape CN very little was in yeah addressed him and he liked what he heard. So to the the big eyes, and they said the yeah we live. get too and so Lenny an teddy was. Come in one of his very first productions. It may in his first production. are our record. Oh yeah, and he did it

in conjunction with without Lenny and they There's that first and how bad things out not very topical now looking at the cover right now, I don't think I've ever seen that record in my life, but they got to the commission that it great test but actually ten thousand clean, all the other ones alive it didn't see that very isn't it, and so it was that like like Ok, you guys, man need bigger, and a friend of little dancing. I know a little John looked, like least back there. Do you still run? Give parents, alas, there sir you guys I'll stay. Touch all ninety of your over the years a little, but it can only try to possible. Eta saw ok, so the first I'm goes and it does but it does and then you still get another shot. I guess that was the time he had. Someone who believed in Chad was yeah. That was a Warner's. I guess you because we started working on another album at Wally Hydrogen San Francisco with

some of the people that we were involved even pre, he has to getting involved on the first one. I am we cannot work headed in the right direction and I think we probably knew it, but what had mean, though, what that means the waters heard the step that we were into doing at that point and on into, but we re aid and they were, that excited, and so they said TAT back up that's when we really started working with TED, because the first one really was produced by Lenny like when you when, when, when that happens, they're like is it your sound? Is that what are they looking for? Why cause? I can hear hear that's it, though I may they did. They stood behind bad more than a lot of labels. Did they weren't integrated with yet, I think initially in all as you say, with Lenny, being more of a roots kind of the arrow key oriented guy, like they were saw us that way, and that really wasn't who we were. We were we, to be- you know aspired, be a rock'n'roll band right, and so

TED came in and he recognized you know the what we were looking for a re. He felt it same way that we had more than just you know folk right. You're a great lawyer- and so will you know, then then we really kind of blossom. We ended up our base parent player left and we after the first record after the first record here and it is says when he saw and so we had a friend if I had been playing with prior to working with him. The first base players. I went to high school with him really and so I quit Guy Quint area and then so time ran. Porter was the the guy who came in and Tyrion was a killer bass player and he was the wiki for how many records a lot yeah yeah it's wild, eight ten record, so second record boom you got hits yes

and we brought her another drummer. Also second drummer knew he was that we had known from other band, who are kind of got up to jam with us one night at the club we planet and we heard to be a second drummer wow, that's a big but like with their we inspired by the arm and brothers ass ever I wonder you know, I don't think we thought about it that way. So much as is that a good guy means always seems odd did, but I guess it, sir: it's cool. They have to farmers, yet it was very our me. It was, I loved the omen brothers, so yeah. I saw that and, unlike in the desert to write, I can't think of too many other ones. Can you know, as a matter of fact, I can't think of any It doesn't mean there is now an early and with the big here with which one on Jesus, just all right with you, listened Emilio. Neither the air tat kind of

when the door and then hearing that on at that time, a knife and fork wagon, driving down around in here and on the radio's like holy shit, run I fucking radio gray, that's great right yeah, it was a big deal. Emily was and then that got followed up with, I think the song you mentioned and maybe rock and then the highway, I'm not really sure what came out after that, oh yeah, rocking down the highway. That's right, yeah! I it's it's crazy! There's a big record a funny, because I won't talk to feel guilty. I asked him about production in the I'm in there a little before you guys right, yeah, it's funny cause, I said. Well, how do you? Because those are those korean songs, Will that be known a weird way if you listen to the records it gave very simple.

but they hold up they're, catchy they're, catchy but the product, and so what are you thinking of when you produce a record? He goes, I think, about and am speaker in a dashboard of a car yeah I've seen people mix airways and I totally believe like when you saying you put that up front when you play guitar, you put that up front makes sense right, yeah it does, but that was post what you guys. I mean you guys did a prettier kind of a bigger picture,

actually, the bigger as these are not huge, but I mean it. It got added to sound year to say no was the advent of FM radio sure that's right and suddenly a stereo stereo sound relevant. You know people that had stereophonic systems they listen to and and prior to that it had been just basically mono. Oh, he had an oral, the FM radio trip and now you're driving in your car and you'd you'd be listening to that area. They can respond all that. Basically, oh, that's right, yeah and whatever is lead Donahue and dusty streets and all those people mean well. It was the difference between Hey these guys in what's going on, he guy have an am radio, was very still, certainly a prevalent format but yeah. FM and and albums. In other words, a right when you your argument, they put the whole album on the radio and people buy.

more albums than they did singles after awhile edit it if it had been the other way. You know people were buying the singles and not so much albums and then suddenly people are buying albums and less less singles yet Did you guys think in terms of albums, when he recorded, I mean, was that we had hunters solve yeah? That's it I think we were thinking in terms of it. We one in every song to be in good as it could be as good as it could be. Sir did you start adding guys? Were this one? What's this album the captain- and me as another big record. The third record sitting same line up, they might have guys or guys I'm line invited. I've I'm here, I'm Gabrielle

We tried some sent Stephen over there. We kind of grew you know and that also the touring thing had kind of started to blow up and China Grove. That was, that was the one. That's the song that, like I just remember, pounding it was ubiquitous when I was like what year was at seventy five. Seventy three seventy three started eleven. it was like everywhere. Are you trying to make us feel better and yellow bit yeah because still going but China Grove that like when you came up with that, so give us like fuck yeah cause that guitar thing. You know Some people may hear that and say that the only saw I ever wrote that I thought this is a single Listen you where China rabbits Iraq to the clarinet, but I didn't think it was good. You know a single long train ride. I think that was the same, because the weather with a gym and when When those are you getting out Don Lando give credit for payment echo on May I add, out at the guy, one might need thing values. The producer

in January and add Teddy, was great help and all of us on all sides focal was drums harmonies. And ass for the turing starts in that Wendy become like a huge act. When do you know like holy shit, It started in seventy two, but I'd say: seventy three is when we really started really hadn't, yet we never saw home yeah. Now you are out all the time. If you aren't out, you are in L a doing another earlier and did you like it, yeah I ain't gonna blow, but it was really do they end up managing they have a family. And what not? Now, at least I see them here. It's really crazy for Heaven a I guess. I mean you guys, do it knowing the item I heard of it, how they, how they turn out but death, but yet So when does when discussing,

start to sort of shift like a wind. How come like on stampede? That's when do you add Baxter or why? What happened? You know it's- been just dinner- an ever evolving thing it we, we have added the other drummer and then the guy that we added left us decided after one I swear it would have been one but the day he laughed yeah. We added another drummer, okay, so because he was around and we like them what habits was the next record? I think after the captain and me, and then we went as Blackwater that's what around it was that the biggest one great Drummer, yandah singer, which was really in an additional thing so that whisky, canoes and air, and he came and took them Michael Hossack, place right and now we continued on and then

went on to do stampede what we do but were once vices or no habits was next week. I think after the captain and me And then we went on its black water. That's what I said was that the biggest one at that time were for you that up to that point, Sundays, tangle area. They were all they were all pretty much. You know I was there to stay a lot about the reckoning is about reverse number one then Jeff was, not really a part of the band for a long time. He just would he was a friend of our air by virtue of just coming around we had done a lot of touring with steely dandy early on in our career, like caution nineteenth, Seventy one yeah we're out in a road with that, here's, the lineup, the dubious Lissy who opened Marshall, Tucker, very open the shows yet and we then Steely Dan played we're after them. Then the dubious

brothers and then said Boy Brown, and that was that that the bill and we traveled around doing minnow? entertaining shows with that with that crew. With that thing and we go, we were driving on when a beggar, Winnebago women this tomorrow its fanned whether on winning an eight hour you're. All I dont know how the other guy sola some the guy smell the guys. We are that's all you want Savary Brown with the headlines. Were they headliner wow, eight to ten, yeah, that goes by pretty fast yeah. They had a I would like to tell Mama hotel Mama either. What are they have some good there's? Some do that would have a kind of a hit for their British Hornaday yeah yeah, there's silence and they were great. They're probably get a record yeah, but that was a great show. That's where he met all those answer. We met STI guys stay there and then in a right after that they started Heaven in our differences of opinion. What was it back

Jack. Do do it again. There was a first hit then, really in the years, but anyway, we became. and with all those guys and Jeff just kind of statement. And I had amended play on steel guitar on the captain and the idea that album and so then he, would show up, you know, we'd be playing around town and, and he would show up and come in. We say we want to sit and uncertain so he'd come in any play, and then amazing guitar per yes, you are incredible gaffer here, and it was the Brenner. It was neat because you know Moby grape fans

so we and thirty surprised that the legions of Moby grape and play- and I just suddenly had three guitar players like Moby grape, okay, we didn't know whether we were the Allman brothers and Moby grape, because we had three in the movie. Great fans came around because they they're just I dunno about that. I'm just saying everybody, even Michael Mcdonald, was a fan Grady. I didn't mean it that way. It sounds better means is diverse kinds of me. the profound people out, and they all know about mobile gray, wiping work, because I think that movie grape was waiting for for most mortals who near most people who aren't severely most civilians who are musicians like I think they really define that fuckin sound of that time. If waking up and get put on the dead in a couple of people in they kind of get lost, but you isn't that that big Moby great balance, I called he has it. Now that I have I everybody I knew play the groove of it yet, and I myself included in the air was great is a great record, so

so anyway. That was kind of as Jeff was that third guitar player that wins great and he was around for a few records, huh yeah yeah we are he would go on the road where this is again. He wasn't really a member of the band for a while, and then we went in to do they impede and then weeks sort of. Brought him in better veiled and he participated and make the making of that record, and then that was kind of his advent in default. As for both steely air, do we rather now you guys are managing. No one got all fucked up on drugs, injured everybody something from people that more than how's that didn't seem like it wasn't a tragic band: it seems. You know, I mean I gotta member dark stories about the dewy brothers, it's a bit

yup divine dark. I guess I don't know, I I think any band. I don't care who it is here that goes down the road in a lot of different pit I personally am not even sure play, but when you are on the road all the time, yeah there's a release that you need to seek someplace man to get The work of after a while you dont have a home. In essence, you have had some place but yeah right. That's, That's your home again area gives little mats now did Was there any major point where the man was about to fall apart, Why in seventy five, I left the bear not because I want to do I let the Baghdad a bleeding all sir, and I get shipped out I've been on our living together over the net they're called the big. Which I remember TAT, I was a baby. the first two or four stampede, I'm gonna, say so yeah. With you, I like you, I was out. to for sure and hear that

can I know a year. I guess there they brought MIKE in two. I will admit that not they actually Jeff called my if they had been in Steely Dan Baxter Ear MIKE Mcdonald yeah and brought him in to play keys, back rather turns out. He had this treasure trove isoude led him tell you there's our traded, songs and that's when they ended up. but that, with the other matters to the streets, begging, natural, the whole sounding awaiting it did, and you guys still house He then aboard to arrive with him. How democratic is it? When did you come back on? Which record did you come back on? I came back an toured on taking to the streets. Tour yeah in the spring to and seventy six and we had a ball. We had. We had the Memphis horns out and oh yeah and everybody was just a great tour- is sort of a wake when when somebody like, might comes in a changes than did the dynamic. The Bamba is there? Is it a democracy, There are two is leading the thing:

everywhere. You know really, never really in some sense, It really never has been structured. That way, it's, moreover, just unnatural involvement of how I think, go here. You know any other marine Homewards customer yeah yeah and you just ever like you have good road managers, and you know you guys you do like you do. We adds a romantic effect back. We burn out another man like yeah yeah, that's the worst position, for it is why just there the hot seat, all the time in on area, you've deal with all these different personalities. It's really hard air gig here and Then, like you did like which record like minute by minute, was that what I remember that record being everywhere, it was a big record the biggest one I don't know yet, probably soul. I don't know what it's all about. I think you're probably sold more than previous albums visa.

most of our albums. There were successful. Arms of soul probably equally give or take more or less. You know like alive, my good double platinum, What what happens is you know you, you get a certain record it gets played on the radio a lot and then boom. You sell a lot of records and then over time you know, people revisit they end and they they go. While I love that record but I dont have this one and thereby that record. So suddenly, you know you're Toulouse Street manages arguably our first, you no success. We. It was our first successful record it sells yeah quite a bit more of it is funny how thing you do when you get in a new hit record, it kind of livens up the catalog. Are we just put out? I never heard an album, let when last lady at over here and suddenly

a couple of other albums were back on the church really yeah. Just it's. You know how that feeds set. And you get your things are very different. Now as far as hell things go with. No, that's all that so I think people. hey. You know. I know people in the music industry put pay as much attention to the apple chert or the the Amazon chart as they do to billboard these days at here. Certainly we ask any streaming, we arms and what you like, but after like minute. By minute. Did you feel I I was there like a period where I mean you could always go out and play. I imagined, because you had such a great catalogue, but was there a period there where you didn't feel like the records were doing as well or that we were we're worried about their. You know I mean, if there's a place you can play and people are going to come and see so most of the players. Five hundred thousand cares, you know yeah and you could always sell tickets.

Where did the band always salty? I left the ban and seventy seven and took off there. Couple of solo albums they do firstly ok, they're gonna model, not a body but not as it wasn't good. They said I think that is what I got told. Anyone as too much like to do Do we really at any rate, then we all got back together for a benefit Keith canoes. Toward organised us all and thou. for the Vietnam bats and we did at the Hollywood bowl and everybody. ever play in the band that was still breathing was onstage. No kidding just about yeah what year was it that was eighty and how many were how many people was afford. Rammers you have guitar players, you got to the world players only one based where there were waiting drifting, inner sixteen people and their way

took out on the road for about ten shows something, and then we went to sum up I went to Russia and played at that glass. Another thing oh yeah and another couple of guys went off and did a a country album thing and either time? Eighty nine role around we made another album which was cycles emitted, started everything up again. We have good sense, who is Who is the members and cycles as to the same ban that was onto loose street essentially pad myself. John Harmon in my closet, sages come full circle every time, every sort of like a spiral he just end up how many peas or something something fun you know to can revisit the end when you make records now, like I mean how what's the process of of riding and everything is the same as it ever was. Or do you just do it because you cannot do you like snow right like I was the most recent we did the pair referred to, which is called liberated?

irritate you is probably the most different, way of going about writing that we ve ever done in essence, every solid current. Ok, It used to be that everybody wrote their own songs. Anybody come in and come up with pirates and stuff, but this was also written with with John Shanks and produced it. and we, and it was done really rapidly, I hadn't met in a bad way and I don't mean in a bad way. It's just a whole new way of doing things. Do you like the record? I do I thought it was. A thought came over again. nowadays records- are key who'd, who told me that they like posters for tours unless a measure blown up really you drive a gigantic when, but I mean it's like it used to be tour was too you know. the record and get everybody out Biden said now. The record is to pump the tours right right hundred and eighty degree change very interesting, so the tour you'd make money, but it was primarily to sell the record when the old idea, who were like

your opening acts as a kind of evolved. I've got only they're all over the man. Oh yeah, you Louis, I am correct, really when I have to rack seventy two really. How is that it was interesting talk about. So there were different from each other, but we learned some from what you learn from them. Well, different style of music? As you have glam I actually granted, we were more about you get more clamors neighbour, the starting a little wild and do our hair fellows no neglect or anaphase. But if our their good guy is set back, I die so so so restarted say who I who grew to yeah, get really big that open for us. Huey, Le Sherwin, Leonard Skinner, open. That's usually the time you do like those guys destiny.

I am open for sure tat more than camera fury. I am you president here my dear flickerbaugh opening for us. I doubt it I recount the albums all by himself just went out to r and we were playing with him at the US and thing, but God he was like so good, yeah yeah. This is Skye. I don't think he had a record yet in last, did you did you allow those stadium things with nine bands, ten be like those huh, oh yeah, sure those I went to one- I think you were on it. I went to one up in my stadium, nothing was like the cars TED Nugent UFO the Rockets at heart so I've, been a very welcome by that's that of temper being now not ordered by the card and, as you are cars open for us, it is hard to follow some of the ban to be honest with they did what is there a little here,

For that very little feet with Nigeria are tired, out of anything that have hit algae hours or one of those guys. However, this ban said had hits that were pretty monumental, even at that time, the I as a foreigner, sure yeah we get a whole here. We all desire sooner when that first came, they were openly there you on their first tour of Anna and heart yeah. You know big songs there, opening for us and we did really Maybe we had some kids at that time inaugurated, but you know there were big band, so you know you're, what but like what you guys backstage gonna fuck, oh yeah! How did he get worried about the the riot house right? You know all about that was at that house. Yeah yeah! It's right that on the road yeah! That's it in those days yeah, that's the way it was yeah. What about?

Why did you ever like? Do you ever do his shows like with Zeppelin or anything I dunno not while I was going to play with the stones now, yeah? Would it add, like a big thing? They know that when you wasn't your big names like that generally, if a large vineyards- Yes, I see a huge, but also its away the idea that I can't imagine what it'd be like to be at backstage waiting to go on and just see. Somebody like just blow the place up your eye, well, she's give it in our wishes. Take arrests, green the palate, nor let on way up the changes that list every decade to to sort of our people we have another two hours to evident from the better of Africa. China, Grove right, if you are going to the other words that you do it without you and those clothes use up, TAT didn't work generally at help. Help

the police. There was a big drop off when you got out in those days. You didn't want to have a guy. So what now who's in touring now who is in the band now accused who's the gang microwave, might like to that. You guys the Mcphee figure out, where the only original result, John was with us from work, so well that when it came a gene, is seventy eight the eye and then played with us until we kind of women hiatus around eighty two, eighty three and then when we got back gather in eighty nine we went on for a couple of years and I think John came in around the early nineties yeah. He only three and he's been with us ever since what are the so, how are the audience is what kind of rooms you plan with work plan? I'm afraid you are shared by the gauchos like twenty five thousand people, twenty five thousand, that's all

as well that day, not every night. I mean some and we also play playing arenas, and I would say ten thousand, some are fifteen twenty five thousand yeah, not that not ever night with our garden called a shed. That's the name. Well, what what is necessary and in view of their amphitheatres into her out or am I be ok, so that you, I guess some of them were oh yeah. Ok, I get it so that is part of covered nagging openly. I that's a lie and in how about leave, bringing whose open for you now know no. I will reply in two and a half hours really and what's crowds like having very clear you ve got the whole spectrum of this ban, God from almost have Maybe now there's once thought of efforts down after that that's gone, but the like every album is kind of represented from that period. but wait Michael's period and Michael's plan

on everything thing about everything or play online, everything that he did it's like and it works yeah I guess, so I get you seen multigenerational audience like we. Definitely here you see some kids, you see some grandparents egotism, grandparents, you have three generations is an unusual. The ever take time off have fun. We're not touring like we did back in the seventies. Let's put it that way: you're sick, as we did do a bit off her five miles right now that that was this issued orders out a pretty intensive touring schedule the at this time round. Simply because we intervene We had to postpone a lotta chauffeur, an azure pen, because it oh mister things that were back to work. revisiting those values and in

yeah and how sia you have a nicer Winnebago now or a matter of fact now that you mention it yeah it's even longer, if the big big verse is that you do it the bus, every bus and look hang it guitars you plan. I got kind of these. put together, strata casters mostly near that plan yeah from power from chapter on our heart of hearts, arts, guitar, you gotta, guided, does every yet well! I've been playing these guitars. that actually, my old tech back in the seventieth built Threeg cars for me and I'm still platinum really and my present tech also the guitar builder and playing a couple of his guitars ice cool. So they're all you know really hand handmade guitars like strats an a, but I like the strats, and you know what about you, what are you playing?

how is a Gibson guy for the longest time any model, you know every shape and size and played Les Pauls and is Did you have a triple pick up westbound now, no one here, for some reason. I associated that with a platters and somehow and much as I thought they were gracing group. I group I just didn't want at the check- is to play a triple pick up one s view Hampton played one. He does a driven. next year, the weights Will you just a while a pr S kind of a pretty much alike were area would do that you give since gotta menace Some of them are still around. I still got the one I can listen to music with, and I played that thing for years on. The road is still with me. What about China Grove, whose ad at the beginning of that scene, that was on an sg and you liked those peanuts is Eric P nineties. I like really dirty nineties around that Les Paul yeah eh eh, but I also like fire birds, and that was another great guitar. I know

when really great you look around if you let your pictures of people, even you see John ass a grammars, I'm you'll find a lot of people playing their back with the many hamburgers. some are ya. Gotta turn onto him by January was like all about them. And now, actually had one. They got from Johnny Winter's, oh yeah. Unfortunately, it got stolen. It was a great guitar. I had it for years. Was it one of the wood ones that really made some white ones that are kind of cool? Was it wanted? Justice was a woodturning yeah cause a small pick, ups dimension, so he went into a giant. is ended up guy doing a lot of acoustic boys like that, still guitarist, afraid I'd go broke, it later and he might have I kind of missed out on the oh yeah yeah- he's he's he's a good player, he's a killer plus wild the way. it was why how tf and even though it was a wild killer of layer yeah. So this so the book goes all through the stuff and all through the the whole career ends up where we were. We ended up today pretty much yeah yeah. Are you happy with it

I am yet we have fun doing it. It was hit it off We didn't anticipate having the right quite as much. Are you gonna have under going to rewrite idea. Homework Well, just not only last week, I would really read things. You know we cannot tell the story to Chris Annie. I would every other book here I would read don't go, that's not exactly the story. I want and that's not the way I would have said so. Then I would go in and Well you're, on top of it, yeah, just rewrite pretty much everything and that he ascended to him and he go that's that works, and then there are the little filter that it went through and yeah, but at more than enough filter more than anything he he was a great Cattle assured for remembering thing near and they'll find you know, get just get them or move a and he did right. You know help us right. Some of the story.

Stuff with the high point. Do you think when, when you look at this book when he was the Well, you gotten the rock and Roll Hall of Fame that must have been amazing. That was it was. It would have been amazing if we could have been there to play live like everybody else. We didn't get you luck as a covert. Nobody could do it all. It was just this last twenty years when all they got they got bringing back. I agree what would you play something good yeah, then that gets a reaction. You gotta open, strong there yeah, even if our whole history of rock and roll, we did a virtual version. We did it all. We didn't zoom in or anything, but we did take not take, but you know yeah sure recorded, stay arouses, and yet I will. Love to go out and buy. Maybe she, I wonder how many people can get to play. They should have back. Everybody It was now have for two years are just when you just want just barely started up again the next year I thought

I swear. I hope the book shelves and have fun on the road is good. Talking well ran that things at the time There you go What a show, what music show one train run in our story. The dewy brothers is now available wherever you get books, it it's you run, keeps you gave me he bore the Wednesday morning. Ghana bout go the barrel, brooding Rona bowed down the bow voodoo evade rowdy buried there, man, I'm back in town,

What will I go to keep our mood and is it the moods keep on shining on me? by the hand and dig by the hand, go dead, but the bat is now not alone by the main map bump. I think and Bam Bam Boobie the Bap Boop with people around and ample good Abdalla period, Bomer lives Monkey LE fond her, Gary angels everywhere burn out down. Now bout. Go the brown