When Michael Mann talks with Marc about his 1995 crime epic Heat, he has such command of the deep backstory and destinies of all the film’s characters, it seems like he has a whole Heat Universe in his head. Which is one reason he wrote the new expanded story Heat 2: A Novel. But Marc finds out that Michael does this type of extensive research and world-building for all his films, and they talk about everything from Thief to The Last of the Mohicans to The Insider to Ali to Collateral to Miami Vice and so much more.
See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck Adele it's what's happening. A mark mare- and this is my pod- cast w tap- welcome to it if you're new here welcome, if irregulars nice to see you. Thank you. Thank you. No! No! No thanks, nice to see you If you knew just hang out, you'll you'll get the hang of it to sit, listen, that's all sit and listen, Listen wherever you're going to listen, driving, listen, run and listen, walking, listen, cooking! Listen! I don't! whatever you gotta do whatever you gotta do. If you're in the hospital, you feeling all right if you're using me to get to sleep, which I find many people do good night sleep. Well, right, I'm trying, and I don't want to be too heavy if you just a trying to
goes off a little bit here. A sweating lawyer with seem to me it's fine where we had to take me playing whatever you got to do today talk to Michael Mann, Michael Mann, is one of the great directors? And I I don't know every about him, I did go, watch a lot of films, I'd seen of his like and And hunter and every watched heat right before I talk to the guy he's, also the director and writer of movies, like the last of the hence the insider ali miami vice he's here because he's now a novelist he just wrote heat to which you to make into a movie, but right now it's a book, and it comes out couple weeks, but I've been very taken with the work of Michael man lately I this I've watched thief by three or four times I watched it.
When it came out, I watched it again in between when he came out and when I talked to a james caan out, I watched it just before I talked to James Connor was James khan's favorite work that he did R, I p a we lost James caan, and I just I do need to tell you that I recorded this interview with Michael Mann, before James caan died, but ah but James caan loved thief, but it was exciting to talk to the guy enjoyed it hands on all the interviews are hands on I can never through an interview I can't autopilot near view everything's all in so vegas the shows were great, and the area was great and relaxed. I didn't go to didn't go to a casino at all. I read
into a y. He was out there he hit me to being after John John john swab director I talk to about the body brokers. He was out there just burning off some the guy he just he. He had a deal on a room and he just finished shooting a movie, so he's taken a break and we hung out. We did we'll do a scene. What society situation and then we want some breakfast, he gave me this amazing book. He gave me a copy of Larry Clark's tulsa. I did it. It almost made me cry to see he is friends with. I think Larry Clark's guy, the archives of the state matter whatever, but it was it one of the great books of photography, one great photo journalistic a pioneer of the rush it, but it's like a first today. Inside to come with a print came with a print larry clark's tulsa. What a great those two books at Larry clark did teenage lust in tulsa, just game changing photographs and I was so fucking thrilled come believe it
It came out of nowhere. What a guy he came to both shows talk, movies and talk to sobriety in talk like had nice a nice time for a few hours. I went to the club the wise guys club with Keith, opened up a club he's got the club in salt lake city's got another couple in utah. This vegas joint, but the ship we're just the club is great. I don't it's that arts district is it's great. you don't even feel the fuckin weight or the pole A visa strip and force shows, and they were a mean. Those club shows ma, am and there's no distance between me and an audience hundred fifty people. I put it out there in those can shows get lupi and weird and risky, at second show Saturday night was dirty and good been doing this a long time, and I gotta be honest with you, I'm fucking good,
got it and little esther. Esther Povitsky was great great open it for me and I'm just try at your amusing opener is a little more now, so I can get this uh, so I can get the time to where it needs to be accepted, three. Seventy five minutes tight figure out what needs to go doesn't need to go. My father was there friday night first show his wife drove a mouth. She's got family near why so they came and he saw Yet we saw the shit. He saw the new stuff, I'm doing about him, a dna at enough, I was gonna, be able to do it, but I did it and He took it like he usually does in laughed, and it's only now Think that you know he forgot by now, but I don't know I don't know it was good to see him. This stuff is really up and coming along. For massive bits in their I'm excited to do the hour.
months from now for h, b, o, but I'm working on it and always new stuff did, sir, my. Like when I do those rift shows, like second show, saturday night. Why? Just I surprise myself? like? Where did that? Come it's a gift to man, it from where comes from that weird mingling of the ether. And whatever is in your brain those moments where something is just revealed to me. At the same time, it's revealed to the audience in a mic. I never thought about that. Where, that come from great audiences, We need to talk about our sponsor, simply safe because has been more than five years now, since we started using simply say, and you know how much we think about simply save everyday, almost never and that's exactly how it should be, because when we got simply say if it took about a half hour to set it all up, and that was it just put up the sensors activate the base stations set up the account, that's it and since then
we thought about simply safe. Every time they ve immediately called when one of the centres went off. That's when we think about with twenty four seven professional monitoring, simply save agents, take action. The moment a threat is detected, dispatching police are first anderson and emergency, even if you're not home, but that's the great thing about simply safe. You easily set it up and then it does all the work. in turning the system on or off with the key fob is such a natural thing to do it never crosses your mind and once you have it, you get comprehensive protection, not only against in who does in berkeley but against expensive home hazards from flooding to fires. You can customize to perfect system for your home in just a few minutes. It simply safe, dotcom slashed. Ever you too, go today and claim a free indoor, security, camera, plus twenty percent off with india monitoring again that simplisafe dot com wtf mentioned that young comic jack night,
didn't know that well, but I used to see a lot of the comedy store. He's appear in the sense that we work together is east pasties he's dead at twenty eight and it's fuckin horrendous. If just her indicates that the void it leaves in the community when somebody tragically, eyes one way or the other. He was a funny guy, and- and I don't know what happened- I don't know what happened. It's a tragic tragic loss, michael Mann,. is one of directors, no one he you know he's got his own style he's on our tour, and he's he's school in the way of being a guy, it's in charge of his shit. I've talked to add these guys your ridgeway scott, we am freakin,
These are big personality that you're a tone that they- that is uniquely there. Certainly Michael man definitely freed can do better. He's here to talk about. Not only is life in his movies, but this new novel. He too a novel comes out on august ninth, but you can play you're right now, and this is me talking like a man about a lot of stuff and again this was courted before the passing of james caan so. Today's episode is brought to you by ethics. Is reservation? Dogs at the hollywood reporter called the first season of the earth. a comedy, a distinctive, wonderfully cast triumph of rhetoric
annotation and ranked it the number one best tv show of two thousand and twenty one. This season reservation dogs continues to follow our favorite gang of indigenous teens in rural oklahoma, with each of them trying to forge their own path in hopes of one day making it to california, and I This season yeah me mark marin fx, is reservation dogs returns august. Third, only on hulu, the I'll tell you what I did today. I watched heat okay I I and to be honest with you, I don't think I see since it came out, and what do you mean you're to cover ninety five? I I watch, member that those of us who are in the films were excited that dinner. frappuccino
together, let me ask you just gave because I'm curious after watching it, were they in them together a course. Ok, remember there was a rumour around that they now is nonsense. If nonsense, right because year I had a third camera, there were shooting a to shop, but every time we are time we went to it. It out at the you know the What era whether the below you lost the intimacy or other so therefore was just kept going that kept going like that and now I but I had a shot with three cameras simultaneously. So if the one camera shooting ale moved, much you'd see the other camera out. Okay reason for that was because I knew these guys were so you know, damn it it seems the nexus of everything the end we will be protected at sea. I sure, would convey shot a jacket over time. How we prompted- and it was we're tuned to it I knew that there was a stood, but
cards at every level that just be this organic performance yeah take eight would be different than take ninety four, both guys, okay, Of those of ale did a slight a shift of his body, but in his right hand, moved down his sire you a little bit, but where you got my balls, did you could see deniro spot tat is retie knee thing is, is brewing. It anna those which we are we perceived more than we know we perceive right and there no organic unity. So on the whole scene is all take, eleven one take No and you and u, n and deniro did notice when he moved his hand like he in his character. He noticed that lonely there, totally in character, and so all that moment And because mississippi, if you imagine how distant they are from each other as as opposites do and
but she now rose that there's no point to maintaining his blown surveillance of our, not that I know right right, while a more bottom does outrages thing and wants to meet him. The narrow has the same motive. Why, as you gotta have coffee with it as he's going to get something right and also he knows that patina is not going to move on him unless he gets some big not going to move unless it gets too big and I'm going to know something, and I may he's thinking to himself. I may find myself in a jam and rub jackpot it, and I will have a split second to intuitively decide whether zegers egg- and I will get something from this beating this guy who's after me. So both are thinking the same. Actually I go now they start with the dialogue about where were you in prison and also by the end? that they're sharing their dreams remote right at moments, yeah the way they see the world ok same yeah right. Both no time is short. Both know, like good ex nationalists, in a funny way, with very low noise, a that usually
you build into it. That's what that's. What is TAT were. Reality is so they're the only two people in the universe of the film who have perspective on life, obviously obviously, the potential character, Hannah has got a compass or so objective reality. To quality, except for these call group does not. If you get we get in his way of iran's you get wet. That's his attitude about above all, life work, I'm calling us you're sure, but I mean what's interesting, though, in that the he's got a moral compass, patina does, but it seems like even like going back to thief that the sort of bond in the loyalty, in the sense of of if it's friendship that thieves have is, is somewhat of a compass. Know that there's trudeau with it
nuclear family or he's bonded to his crime partners, yeah, absolutely yeah, and- and he that's why he rescue shirtless avail, come a valid, welcome, a character, but both of them see life as transient and and momentary and you know and they're shocked, they're solitary their their their solitude right, but they're. The only characters like that in the film that's okay, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, because it may cause a size, Moore's character is like again, he saved his monies got, it could have a life size, mergers MR family reactors right. That cut the you made out to the cops at the same base. Almost the same party right right, yeah too. That and then, but I what I didn't remember, which is most of the movie, because it's right in my head today, I ate in its rare I think this in a body to erode an entire book to sort of do the. Before and after of of that film, was that when he goes back because of that that, for that flaw of pride to
kill window or where what is now where we will bring growth. It was satisfying. Why get your there's the anti hero, you're rooting for the bad guy lot of times. I wouldn't have minded if, if Deniro They ve got away a kind of wanting to grow, but his did to go shoot that guy, like he shot him and in a very specific way that he shot me. A look at me. Look at what I felt like that character had done. thank you, he needed to do in his way twenty minutes earlier in the film or the guy that gave the movie never ever would have gone away grow and the reason he went for wang grow is because he's lost his navigational instrument altogether. z, go right. This laddie yeah. Now is that he's is that he, as by a rigid code of had nothing in your life, you can walk out on dry seconds, flattened right catchment black eyes in its a rift, verses, reward equation, and so he lives in a universe in which there total causality totally rigid and the conceit of the film
is that the way you think of the world is the way your is going to turn out what's to like show her less as post modernist than he does all kinds of mistakes and he's still vasculitis val kilmer through a comer, not dinero de niro, character. If he deviates from this rigid, almost catechism. How to be everything has to be at everything, and he never would have right. When he and eighty drive through there, the tunnel where the light changes you know he never would have been swayed, but you it's almost like. There's it's like I, I bared my chest to her. I ripped my heart out of my chest that disturbed you know everything I wanted to do and everything I've been doing this for doesn't mean anything if you're not with me and and attaining this and he wins and she's gonna go with them yet so then it's almost like. I guess I can't be spontaneous right. It I'll answer that that opens them up here,
vulnerable to being turned by bye bye. Motions and in full his dad wouldn't have been before to Nate says to him. I know you're, not good. I need to tell you because I'm obligated to I know you're not going to go for it, but here's where wayne growers he goes to that of light and comes over him and he turns off the freeway. Now we had seen the dollar three times employee of the night shooting, and I let the bomb. Then he looked at me and as it went on habit, he said yeah. I know what it a second time, it is only that what's in bob's, head well you're, not on his face that we knew we didn't get it the first and second time. We did it a third time and we know we had it and were telling him that we're both talking when you bob to see it, we didn't, I said, is that it it's okay, but it's not really there. He says yeah, I know at all. They do it again. He is speaking
actor. Do you know to work with? Obviously right and like you saying the reason the character did, that was because he had to do it. He didn't have he had to do it because he lost his navigate. It's like a boat without a rudder. This is an invitation by being vulnerable. Bye, bye, bye, bye, letting her in when he should learn to shoot a letter, and I get it yeah. It really saying is the truth. I mean those these are contradicts, rose, they're, so rich to be and why I think this is kind of a universe, but this is this is the contradictions that are in our life they're, both true, but it's not contradictory, I know it really. Is there nothing he's after mischa a thing of shoes now with them? He said my life's in an boom, I'm a needle starting at zero, going the other way and that's what he decided midway through the movie. I mean like it. You know like he was the guy. That said, you can't don't stick with giving you can't leave rise. A second
very, and he never would have he never. He would, after the meteor accidentally belt in the broadway deli and then of who goes home. They they have sex, they make love. He leaves glass of water falls, pools adapting around the way you do, yeah, yeah, yeah and going to go away and he is going to just the memory of her at that set and he's never going to call her again. Never got happen. Excepting seeing everybody together read it out. I need restaurant chair moment an ad, so he did so. He weakens any calls, or she said I thought I was only the one night not for me was it. He says it's a strange turn. It's a stranger strange turn. So now what have you been kind of ruminating about these characters for what thirty years to do a book, rather they never. They were alive before.
The movie into the movie and they're alive after I did it moving I'm after the movie. Well, they never stopping Why? Because they, mention is much greater than that slice of time the movie or the so the movie is. This is a nineteen ninety five sliver, I mean, I know the character, For me, I know what nib was doing when he was eleven when he was institutionalized, but you knew that when you made the movie, oh totally, alright, I have to know everything about the character I have to know where they come from as to why he is the way he is I have to. While he speaks the way he does why he moves. So. Do you do that with all your films in yeah, and and- and I dive is deeply as I can add the author below they you social, that you and get with. I got I do if I'm going to hang with thieves,
it's interesting about that movie, but yeah I mean but like with Ali, I mean now that guy's got a biography but the, but the fictional movies like even You didn't write them, you do you build a backstory, absolutely especially as considerate of you try to do. Mohicans in that and and seventeen fifty seven So how did you get the same kind of like what I aspire to ask is kind of a cultural immersion. Almost like a a british cultural anthropologists, where you really want to know have to be able to imagine. I am this corrupt person. This is my value system. This is how I my a girl. This is why about life and death and operative in big time and in heat. It's a different era.
Different situation. When you were when you're obviously took a period film sure, because you could do that period, physical, world, wardrobe locations, everything else you got for me. I've got to have a period attitude. I gotta know what their values are. I've gotta know what period ecology, as was the psychology of the iroquois of seventeen fifty seven, and how do you find that out oz there is a there was just after harvard historian, they parkman who, in the eight who the eighty seventies version of oral history, where he talked very old people who, when they were very young, talk to their grandparents hulu through the summer of one thousand seven hundred and fifty seven live through august of one thousand seven hundred and fifty seven and related stories there's nothing. We know nothing about the mohicans, but we know all about the the ne a neighboring tribe, the mohawk. She spoke a different language, when the six nations are the iroquois shaw. Most are the most of it.
Cultural taken a psychological take is all iroquois. So now is it. I just talked to Robert Eggers, of it, the guy who did the northmen in which and lighthouse he's, also very meticulous dude. And in the which he he he made them construct the house of the period which was pre colonial america with only tools that were available to the do. You go that deep yeah his cabinet, in front of the mohicans. The crops are the real crops. Okay, we sure he acts crazy, but Is it crazy, though, or is that crazy? It's great Why not do it? If you can hear and we needed to grow the crops about seven weeks, we found it ended with the actual crops that they would have planned. We found some hybrid siege, Where were you actually engineered for mountainous environments. We have very short growing season, so we grew all of our corn and like seven or eight weeks or something so
The whole house he was was resist. A real or cabin with built of what we built a fort for real. The fort was real an end. Not I mean I mean we're gonna lick, work, correct, yellow the camera, but I imagine that that the sort of energy- It, creates french ass thick ass. The rights is there in every gesture, all the actors in the you bringing people who have not read about, and I talked about their heritage, their history, they never better environment where they could stand, and they go look for about two hundred and seventy degrees and there's nothing. That is not a t century. I'm talking about talk about american age church who it'll native americans who are on the show yeah and then fur on in all other life for four daniel of same thing, I'm a he trained for eight months, and so we could do everything that hawk. I would have been a
to deal with a common aim it in one week in a forest? Will the national flag I in georgia, where Daniel, didn't trapper shoot at it neat. And away they went away. I never geisha, I'm all right. You know he oh go deep, yeah, but the boy it'll pay off, and that is the authenticity or it's why? It's why sometimes, if you're lucky these things sustain and memory and they sustain a culture because there's a deep who's telling residents to it. I believe, believe, brilliant and the things they don't even know there's a truth telling resonance. I think that with what he had seen. They stay emotionally hawk dan for they like the movie they like the music like this like that, but as something deeper than at its. Is this a truth to it and that's what you truth that has been transcends whatever is that's why I guess I'm should always happen. Lyra. I add my thoughts.
Girl? I've got four die. I see three of them were with me when we're shooting a cab and, as is daddy, don't do not burn down that cabin six. As far as the story yeah, but you're, the boss, dad you don't have to write it down. If you don't water, we want oliver, you know how they loved it, they loved it, but I mean going back. I mean I is this: how long does it take you to prep, because I know you know you've done a lot of stuff, but you make very specific choices. The film you do, and it must take forever as a great adventure. That's all think right, abba special vat driven by content at creating caught that that set. So I'm not a journeyman director, and yes, I m o Higgins. It was you know we were prepping for probably close to your valley. We pressed for seven. Eight nine months will provide for love and listen at all the same thing yeah there. You could see the boldness of an air of that decision
four will to try and be muhammad ali is or as awesome. Yet it is of no end, You start analyzing footage of ali. When he's he's being so is the arab rhyming couplets observed can you see how complex the language is? Sometimes he has three different identities and he's himself that his uncle vision, uncle remus voice, a different kind of voice, yeah and as really complex stuff, so to to really get that right takes takes quite a he was great as Ali. I thought he was thrown he he what he was ally and he and it. To tell about this by the way he boxed. Every morning, five days a week probably nine to ten months yeah and I had angelo Dundee there. I had everybody, I go liberia, yeah yeah they bring in how about ali.
Ellie was you're all time, oh yeah, during a shooting here it the dead. Like a time trip one of his favorite things in life was his boss. You love driving around his boss. I had a So then I am, I double we're location, scouting in nineteen. Eighty four for the miami vice pilot, the fifth free was still there and we had video taped it in southern reminded me. You know, I think, at our storage we have. video of the actual first reach of which have subsequently been torn down, and we did so It's like a you know. It's like time travel for him and him. I was his brain at that point Brain was always good who I saw the park and effect in his speech aka. So people think that Are you speaking their way? Perhaps you're give alzheimer's warrior: or slightly autistic reopening and then,
the normal human reaction to that is to accept that you is kind of a bad thing back a lot of people, parkinson's sure, because people start regarding them a certain way like they cannot. Ali and Ali's mind was sharp yeah, so a lot of the allies. Movies go back to chicago and you're from Chicago right now inner city chicago but you're not from a crime family enough of a crime? does it? How did you grow up? How do I yeah like what was the fao action, what your main low and middle class working class family, inner city, india, directors from Chicago, who lives in a proper suburbs make comedies. I grew up in a city like Billy, freakin or myself. We do not make comedies it's an interesting thing about you and friedkin, because I was thinking about live and die in l a and I'm like it looks like he was watching some of your movies. Yeah. So
grew up in the near north side, and then we moved further north went to as what business for your family and my father had a small independent like supermarket thing that eventually went out of business when they opened up. you'll see when I get home my grandfather had a small walker company, while at one cab to care, I drove a cab. Pretty much half work my way through the air yeah, and you got brothers and sisters one have one brother. My parents were my dad was terrific. He died when he died too young and fifty sucks. When I was three here and also it was jewish yeah, yeah, conservative, No, no. Father was. My father was progressive, My grandmother was very progression: oh lived through the russia, lucian's Why do my father
I volunteered to world war, two saw a lot of combat and bail the balls. She was thirty three when he went in and thirty three didn't have to go in. but he kept his car. He was ten and felt the patriotic duty to fight it ever talk to him about that. I am here he would about a year? He when, where we went where the fifties what the movies we go to the movies at ten in the morning on Sunday yeah because couldn't be in crowds. They didn't have terms like pity as yet reaches the eta. but he had at her. okay yeah. He had a lot of love, a lot of issues that came from combat that Saudi was wounded and then went back and back on the front line and then became an mp while so was that your first movie to experiences with your own the movement of those are my first expert, but I hadn't zero entrusted in cinema alone,
did all that. I wanted to perfect director right, but were movies landing with you were you I would have made big party of life or bless them weakens landed with me when I was three or four didn't realize it. It's all ninety. Ninety one cannot figure out what the hell do. Internet access. Wait a minute. I've had two things rattling around in my brain, since I was three one. Is this one It's tragedy of this girl falling off a cliff vital comes from, and the thing is this notion of these spectacular looking native americans with british show redcoat uniforms- and I know where they came. Remember you've been thinking about what you are. black and whites last mohicans. Why thirty section you were saying it probably and nineteen, forty six on the basis of a church near there where we live humble park and tracked it you figured it out there Well, I'm then I went to jail Joe roth and roger bird bombing.
Actually I probably got a crazy idea. There hasn't been a period movie in ten years. Let's make last of the mohicans this a great idea. Let's do it. It was very difficult. So when did when did you start taking interest in movies, probably I took a, I was tortured about trying to what to do with my life, who shall I be at his world? What we wrapped her mind for in an eye twenties- and I know what we are considering everything I was now Let major bright took a lot of history course. A lot of philosophy courses it took geology course here want to be psychologist for about eleven minutes here and what dragon or white they're going novelist you know and that I took a soon film history taught by the first call. In film history at university wisconsin, and I remember the exact moment. I walking down Bascom hill? It is in january.
Cold, but dry and beautiful ever you see every star in the sky about light and just just hit me make movies this? What you going to do and about maybe joy. The street. Or shops a year, and this is what you gotta do is what is what just hit me like a bolt of lightning and maybe something else I was also you know credit of Dr Caligari yeah, it's fantastic the extent of our and the nicest stain who still relevant today is over and on what like potemkin patapsco. Yet but I'd read film, foreman film sense sure nobody there felt there when you say sought MIKE he's relevant today to this day, what parts of of It's what we're talking about heat dialect, okay, okay, right of dialectic, the collusion of ideas, the language of film, the language;
the film or the language of film narrative of the whole of the narrative and of the experience on every different level and cause that's exactly what what he Is he is all of these? in seville crash together into the end and when you're with any one character, not only Are you emotionally even what he wants a mostly connected to him. To see the world, the way he sees the world, and on top of that I made happen. I made fate war. For him as a function of his view of the way life is right here and were characters is sure herlews who doesn't have a view right and is postmodernism, just he just but also a romance by kind of israel. I think he's screwed up in his eyes at exeter. Yes, lies in air. She does that black jack dealer wave with her hand, which you really should
it'll be captured because her life in her kids life is in jeopardy. If he doesn't and he's got a smile, he smiles, then she just Well, you know so well when you decide to do that. You're, an undergrad, I was young. I was it you. I was made junior year in them right. I started looking for how ok I don't know how sound it's on film. I know nothing about this visa. What do you do? film school, what film school and there is no internet, a corsair, the library and look at the syllabus for your lay at any rate, I go to u c l a didn't want to go to. As I didn't know, I didn't know anything I probably would have been if I would have been a good place Yeah also are you even yeah. If you read the syllabus, it felt very dry and technical knockout. Now Coppola also has said that two went to: u s c. The air was dry and technical here and on so I couldn't do that. There was
you're only like three or four film schools in america back then and edward go london feel Fiscal, as I was also staying out of vietnam, so wasn wasn't was it you trying to stay out of it? Now I was sick of it now be. I saw my brother. Am I dead toy supported their if anybody anybody who is a world war, two veteran wandered kid to go to vietnam had been a quarter master core. They had not seen copy it. How did they must have felt there at me at what point wait? What year we talk, nay, he must have thought sixty five We really didn't know politically what was happening. His new car and sixty three shire to it started to feel like this is a gigantic mistake, and yet it's a it's is the wrong. So how did you stay out just by staying in college, I stayed in college for two years and then I had a.
I started writing posts there. There was a draft board in chicago beer and there was a job and I get these form letters and I'm a university student staying out. I was very activity: anti war movement, europe and them when you were in london and politically active those years, sixty six sixty seven and I every three months he gets up for driftwood and it was a lady's name on the bottom said her a postcard every five or six months saying you know something profound, like it rains a lot in london selling nothing governor dares right too, years. One day I got a letter back saying. I read your good you're fired that you have asthma. If you If the doctor say that you still have asthma, you know you will go, ask your one! Why yeah? No, and so I did- and there was zero, says yeah. That was an air show in london like a once, you decide because of a couple movies. You saw that this was your calling
you know, how do you set about modeling a vision for yourself. You make mistakes. Is you? Do well yeah film school and you make it and you should. I believe that people should go to film school with a great liberal arts, education, which I was fortunate enough to have, and you going to make films their income totally embarrassing, in a normal awful. Like short films, you mean? Yes, absolutely. You know it's symbolic, any big, all those mistakes. Early on you take all those shots. When you left with a liberal arts education, I mean what were the stories that that moved, you the most that were kind of template for your way of thinking in terms of story how to do well. First of all, I became very interested in the national liberation front movements. They were going on there gala mozambique, now hop in my in film school in london, a third of the. students were americans who were not going to go to vietnam. Then there were south africans who, if they got sent back to south africa, were going directly to jail. Yeah were
portuguese because it sixty five. The war in Angola was bigger than the war in vietnam until Salazar died. Seventy four! So did I did I did some film work? during the end of the may june, sixty eight in paris, those were the this. So thinking about yeah doing that, and she it film back kind of thing. I learned about change whilst making girl this is this. Flamed everybody yoga. This part of the report I had with Ali is that what made him crazy on the six o clock news and I keep having violently crazy. while the news in sixty seven on a tuesday it made me crazy? At the same time, he was one year older than me, yeah, and so there was another and he had a very sophisticated understanding of global struggle, because our muhammad
Explanation of islam newspaper, the central part of that was all about third world struggles, yeah back backers. At least four sixty five sixty six, so you saw your films at jc. Were you thinking about a career in movies? Were you thinking about doing poorly Nicole move. I was thinking about a career in movies. The subject matter I was taken with was political given given the time right. Poor relation, which was radical. What were some of the movies are examples of that that you enjoyed wild bunch, was massively impressive, saw seven I just watch at again. so good. It's so good and take a look. Take a walk. Take a look at what films were nominated. Nineteen sixty seven, it's like a hit list of about ten films and yet unbelievably, no rich prolific. You know: what's amazing, that it is that that
we stands out with me when I watch a movie which have done several times. Guy like Peckham bar, is those kids with that scorpion in those answered the begin right day the whole movie if the holdings in the home on our way, it's right just blows me away every time so working with over there in london, I've talked to some guys Ridley scott- I know really here, but a really briefly and who else is coming up with the anybody? go. Lay a lot of guys who I went to film school with were worth want, went to work and world an action which was a vessel It of journalists. I tv which weighed sixty manage look like thing dogs. These guys were like we open. Shooting end interview, this kind of stuff as conniston shit did you do any without any know a lot of, but when I was doing some early research on untried,
as in hong kong, why my closest friends, game gavin MC who set up the front nightclub in in in london later years. And then I did all that together and we were able to really penetrate into a deep into try Is it also some aspects of the drug trade in the golden triangle? Moshe researching something around nineteen, eighteen, seventy, nine and eighty and his? because of his investigative charlotte. Techniques. That was the real inroads What do Michael apted came out of that world and action to bunch I did do some of that international crime come into this one into the novel, the new absolutely so so it's all in there at your head and you cut it's all in there, yeah, yeah and and then it gonna keep so it keeps on keeping on.
as you connected through vietnam, through the through their hanna character. I connected to vietnam. Why? Because we tried to do away ninety sixty eight yeah, the mark, Bowden, the fabulous mark, bowden book and we came very very close to doing it at a fax were, was fantastic executive, their john lang graph behind other guy? working with him now no good I mean I do I just, Well he's a great guy, smart guy, really smart. and we were we were coming to Why the decision, just at the time that disney was the Take over and it became impossible to go forward will carry okay, alright, but in the book, like no like a hat pettiness character. Hannah is a vet right, yeah and put them in sixty put a blow to the battle of way of night. Yes, it's right here right there arrived so went what was your first job in the films my first job that I got.
worked in london for awhile had a small perak, tiny production company. We made some commercials. He started a business in london, start yeah. Well, I'm five guineas year of five pounds: five shillings yeah! It's like it's like the millbrook thing, you put your head on a rock look up in the sky and say I am a production company great and that's always stuck yeah and then the commercials it may be commercial yeah short and try to get a screenplay written on something that happened in sri lanka, marshals, helpful technique, wizen yeah, but it wasn't. Yesterday. I bet it's la three hundred and forty three for converse. Okay, one of them on it. Our brand th, with energy to forty, which a lot of my dad died in sixty nine went back to chicago and set up production company. There did the same thing and then moved out to the coast at seventy seventy one, while so, films, kind of happened in an independent film in a way are independent thinkers
the guy just in time for all the youth movies writer easy rider, yet all the bad youth movies flop I picked them. what a time to arrive the corpsman rip offs. You know the ones all about oh yeah hurting out after easy ride, but then there was a couple of good movies, a couple of good ones. All the bad ones came out. I showed up to eighteen, what did you do and then, meanwhile, I'd worked for a year at twentieth, century fox and in london in a in a production job in physical production, which was great and I work with somebody traffic people at so then, basically, nothing. I try to write. And anna movies, Is your television trying, white movies and and I'll, be that guy in bob Lewin who was a story editor on a series. beginning cornstarch, starsky and hutch read some of it yeah and I
I love getting a gig writing an episode, which then became the first episode that I wrote about three or four, the early ones. Ahah do this It was created by bill blinn here and and then I got became a kind of a saudi. Your television writer very quickly, ok, ok, The plan was to this is whoa our city chicago, I guess was pure extortion valuable, and I won't write it if I can't also directed K so that the way got in there. That became the jerk mile was a movie the week that very well at one. I want to teach you a warden and emmy that year the theatrically in europe. Well, did really well yeah. So that was your first feature, Does the project was a movie, the weakened states? There is a feature, and in so imagine The tv writing must have helped. You know kind of february rusher totally
at your death is a very great for some great care since the very valuable insight I learned structure bob luanda label, Brian Brian ran I again in its waters, ran police story. What Show one box, oh yeah. I remember that in up a soul was based on is relates to heat, the big wake up ass. I was based on a real event and you weren't. You spend time with the police officer. who's. Telling you what happen when he was trying to The freeway sniper correct. I checked, girl in the head and she was brain dead, but the three in the morning. He was so tortured by his imminent divorced that he going he talked to her and then she couldn't hear him and You got the human stories they were so deep. Did he do that Anfield was that I just watched
We ve it's got some of that can feel that an ill somebody these worse, but these were stored there to be related to me by a couple yeah throw it ran, you'd have to probe. at some of this album they lewin who read survey dialogue set your dial or he will get a greater for dialogue, and you would not know what a story was of it. Ran you over right. So I'm gonna tell you a story to tell you. I could teach you what a story is, and I still use the same kind of structure stand. What is and what do we have any laid out? No one minor blade. I want a piece of paper. What was his pitch? How do you wear? How do you explain story the hard to explain story if you wanted from here to seattle. You know you're going to seattle, which the exciting way to get to seattle, called story and why, in a round at at two thirds of the way there you make us
did you read over the whole point? Is figure it out when they saw one piece of getting so so you did it that he be working in and thief was the first one that you Our committee was the first to managing director again and then, and then by the airport I had written safe and southern safe was my first the problem and I gotta tell you ya. I talked to James gone. I did interview with him. Okay, I kind person We have a real bob buster, but like watch all his shit, because I want to be loaded up and of his whole life? That's the movie, that's his movie! That's it He loves array of yes, great, that's the one worries like the one. The best one I did is that movie he's pretty good sonny I re, What are they gonna got adamant about sunny that I never knew. He said that when he shot the first being that they did for that
advisory with him as sunny was that scene in the office where he speaks out of turn with salaat. So remember with the meeting yeah and he gay is he something is daggett pissed off at him, he said we shot that the date first day. That was the first thing we did and I didn't know who sunny was and then he said but I was hanging around with don rickles. For some reason he was or I would die rickles in his eye. The ball busted. That's? Who sunny is where it so they so that that the gear backs. The drive shaft of sunny was down recalls that makes tolson. Does writing a crazy so now what was the role? internship that you had. You know in researching cars thief I watched again. It was hard to find a for a while, but then showed up on criterion for awhile there, something you have around. You made some decisions because I watched the first episode of to Tokyo vice as well. Yesterday, you know, in my recollection, there's a tone you create through light through music through close ups, but there's lighting it specifically yours and immediately,
and you know that. So how do you evolve that what what decisions were you making? What were you going up against you with the films you ve seen to create this thing? That is your vision I don't think of it from an external point of view. Okay, at all, I'm not we focused on what I want to do in debt. objective is different for, for fear of, for every film shot, certain things are short term. Why objective is to is too to immerse you so deeply in it that you are or something I experience when I'm sitting there- and I don't want the movie dad. I'm worried that I'm halfway through his gun answer, donut movie, don't out movie, dec they're kind of immersion. That's by ambition, regardless of what the story is so then that means a number that that then generates a lot of different
ever knows of of endeavour want, is to use all then all s excellent media may use a varied it. What to the last thing I'd ever want to do would be to film theater as of zero interest in that, and how do I make this more of a priority? And what do you mean film theatre? Well, where they agree to our weather reactors or they're? Talking, dialogue or a camera just happens to be recording an okay guy to say you are okay, so you're going to use site. I want to be experimenting on a big, experiential and and and and to be more was fluid as I could be, and and have all the formal elements serve that purpose as radically as possible and do you know show that starts with knowing everything you can possibly know and having real people around as much as you can solve, thief, is very much based on
and a guy named Johnson and Tucci, who plays are oh plays a cop in the unsafe year and do it as a tall blonde cop, whose name is charlie, Adam shear who's in the planet who beat sub hey. They interrogate him. Charlie, killed the real neil mccauley from heat from here nike sixty three and that coffee up seeing kind to happen at the belgian deleon account or clark street. So these are the key. In a way to cause any chance to choose a thief, is exposed to us. If we didn't have any props, we had all johns bribery gear and then crime story and I may have a series gunnar and he brought his whole world into a lot of the movie where the cops oh yeah. So there are a lot of these playing cops, are cops playing these all all through all through oh yeah, thief, yeah yeah, we have heard about farina, he played one of the bad guys Dennis was
Charlie Anderson and tall blond dennis was partner. Okay Dennis was rough. Is he was and after thief he said you know- I really cuz- I want to take a back thing. Yesterday- went to the goodman theatre that eight hundred and thirty hook Steppenwolf they hooked up with peter, and remain theater. All that in a great beheld, golden age of chicago in the 80s. died in two thousand and fourteen. We were sorry not as hard. He still he still alive, but we were we didn't together and as a great guy, I'm sorry Jesus had, it will happen
He had a. I think I think it a blood clot clots arm D just ran into his heart. They fell down and that was called nine one one and he died. He was in scottsdale. Tat. We were shooting, I know in central in hong kong on black, had an half my crew, my crews most likely with me for twenty years, so that everyone knew and everybody would just stop. I just write an embolus shoe. I just wish stop pull the plug. You know Jesus so anyway, so so thief. So this was like because in all these things are talking about the sensory experience, immersive experience, you are using tailoring dream. Music landed there like, but there the light in IL. I mean the attention you paid to everything, even clothing. It became part of the fabric of the film. You know there. There are some scenes that I can man hunter as well. Similar like there are certain movies. I see as more. You know future, where I can immediately identify the style
seems like some movies, but I'm thinking like thief, manhunter You're, probably miami vice collateral, where You know you immediately are in like within a frame it's like needed in Michael Mann, movie now like when you something like like, mohicans did you have to If you have to make you just apply to the store, I'm not self conscious but any of it it's half. So to me, it's like what kind of light, so I want to show looking at paintings for the period of bitter How do I visualize Well, first of all of the things with by candle or if we're doing, public enemies, you know what kind of light sources do they have then have a very dim bulb. So if you walk down the street, there's a pull a light year and his doctor, the bullet and so it's it has to be different.
I just about all wait a minute. This is it my signature in our own. I get it. I get. Each has its own. It's like anybody was dug into their per. Do you have a year I am not accusing you of hacking yourself, but your vision is, is deep enough to wear it sort of manifest, and no one else really does it. You know whipping the flags in thethe? What you want look back at that movie. What what do you think we're your biggest successes in in in putting that thing together What was your first film like that? Really stuck with you? We were like shit. This is this. Is it I got the work out with this one dialogue scene between James kind of tuesday, weld and diner ten minutes, as we all real lack whenever reels, yeah and and that that could work that there was a I found myself wow, I'm going to tell what, if I told this whole story, he all his life.
I get all these things about his life into this. What if he just sits down and tells her how to make had happened in right and as a writer. I was thinking this thing and that was the eight. He had the little vision board to write it up. So I knew the way you guys thought I knew. The power of the human intellect in captivity. With people have strong ego. She Vienne, the confinement, makes them more, intellectually aggressive, so the cause of questions. I was ass. Shooting the jericho show that europe, a mile and falsehood year, were or were wild. I wish I had COD two guy. Why should I want you? I was casting. That is what god wants to be in the film. Body bodybuilder
watch it? No one has parts of man. I can't be your film my so why not said, because if I was in the film. I would allow the allow you to appropriate the surplus value of my beard karma and he just kidding, he had read Marx and engels and has also understood that yeah, so you yeah, really, okay, so it made sense as poetry to it, write, poetry to their their stereo, fantastic poet, a poet whistle still alive? His name is spoon jackson who wrote a poem, that's one of my favorite poems. While times have you know, realness each raw meat. It does not waver mean it's like this really tough. despite the optical perspective that you get you start to have. I think, if your car charade at what is why am I still here, while I just endless in our what is existing? What's time was life these guys
ask themselves, is profound questions and you use those guys in I'm in a lot of movies, I mean that you use your ex con character. That's guy! a you know that their core that yeah yeah yeah, I mean at the core I mean probably there too and heat as the same question. I ask myself how alloy, how ought I I would like to live. What is It always the same question we're all asking ourselves. I know I I I wrote on a post it today, because they're like of where I'm at in my life- and I just talked to a tony hawk- skateboarder who's still skateboarding at fifty three. I know I said I saw the document talked to him today, yeah and I'm I'm talking to you and what I wrote down from. He was sizemore saying. For me, the action is the juice. That's it right now he's gotta be more than that produce. True, that's that's the guy. You ve got as the family man mister. Our values right yet, but his history your family. He would hold as a hostage sure sure
but the actual? Let you see the guy that, could it there is the one guy that white took care of everything, so he could leave, but he didn't get ready to leave, but also that it also is appointed that he picks up his body either a little kid right. yeah, yeah yeah, that's right, that is through the divergence of views. Quite young shall so so I'll go wherever you go to the narrow but I'll. Take that kid mice, it's got nothing to do with this family. This exactly half So when you do like I, I I watch man hunter too. Now these waiting guys, you guys, you seem to get right at their peak likely to con me. In Petersen? Was amazing, an interesting, interesting actor right? Will you, while I mean that is a bar tendering and see whether, by the way, okay, where it would seem. You can't tuesday weld out of the restaurant yeah yeah is there a frozen a car he's the phila fusion
bar tethering pushes away yet so these are the kind of guy, so you knew him sit down from back. Some do theatre, probably I didn't like it. I asked him and cast a man in and safe and now, when you, something like the insider, you just eat you all you're thinking about. Is that story totally and and how lethal Forces are truly lethal and andrew and how do you represent? It was people talking in rooms for two hours and forty five minutes grey area. and do you know, say no law globe. Gonna was it was it was a girl was a friend when this is happening we were developing something else. It was his developing a something on an arms merchant name, navy, saki sarkisian, and while this was
going on to lol, and I was one of a half dozen people he talked to. You know what I knew all about the tobacco thing. He'd say: you'd, never guess what happened to me today. Don Hewitt walked by like I didn't, exist, an event you know and and when he was being a a ostracised society at sixty manager, and then and then I saw the the the expurgated version of the show of of his up, about Jeffrey wigand call lowell afterwards and wish. I said you enough: forget starkey circus. What you're living through sending a guy that you don't particularly like who's doing what for all the wrong reasons, which makes it a more pure act in this context? In
sense of that? It's your actions that count not your intention right and so was the purest form of the act, because, if not motivated for any good reason, it s not very pleasant thea and you don't like a maniac, putting everything on the line to defend a semi. There was that's a settled and new vessels story and that their and also revealing that that that that kind of that corporate soulless corporate power right right, the explanation of of of torture the spirits and MIKE wallace says you mean the true it is. The worship gets she's, absolutely the true. It is the worst but also like adventure interesting as there is sort of the through line you here to you know where you were politically. When you were young, I mean that's an important movie. That's an important struggle. it is with the winters with a real old bergman to you know what do you? How do you choose these movies that you do like I mean like how does
collateral. What was that? What we were that come from clara came from four did. Do choose a they choose me that okay, okay, clara came from having done last of the mohicans and the rational last against cider reality, and they're all massive pictures, fish, way, which I love that in a but that huge stories with a lots of moving march, they're, very symphonic, and sure you really have to get all right and saw the notion of doing a movie that took place in one night that was like a gem, is others all about the refractions where he had these two characters and each the agent of the others, realization of jamie Fox Character gets liberated from his J. Alfred Prufrock story he's telling of the self where I what you know this
I was talking about and then towards the end of it a go Jamie Foxx character becomes the agent of actually landing something on Tom cruise. That does some stairs parts of human beings, sing it you and really get out and so anyway. So then, like a gem like yeah, to me so that I didn't, I decided not to do aviator Was yet another big when scorsese I to if one of two directors will do it. You know all I'll produce it and they'll do it otherwise I'll just hold on with so into marty. Interesting, so you like what was it about aviator, the same story,
to me is the same story is ali. Yes, it is a story about a man strode the whole, if you. So. What is this? What is the central conflict and you twenty five words or less and you're only allowed to say one thing you know and and I'll lie. If it is a man struggling with himself beyond with you what john Logan respect ass, a writer and I invented for Tell it story. Was that some long when you buy a pig, but that is how, the Jews fighting his all mental illness death The villa, that's the antagonist is, is almost entirely on mental illness ones, at an early is. Who shall I be? Who make myself into this world? I represent so much to plaque. goods and I are that it comes through. It also represents so much to everybody rising up from below. That's why it? with a rumble in the jungle right and and
no? And so it is the function of representative representing, sing think a big motivational. That's something I'll lie was always conscious of them wanted to design it and he was out of which discovery and brilliant, brilliant guy. So what with the aviator. What if you chose not to do it, because you felt like you I made a similar thing. I couldn't figure out why it fell to me like a like. It was just some telling the same story: okay and on? How do you think's quite aids I owned and controlled briskly controlled it adopted? I would leave controlled it, and I remember we have we're having a christmas eve, party at my house as sorry leonardo and you dumb- and I was you Why don't go do it now? You know there's something was holding me back and how you Scorsese did with it,
The group is that were that relationship began with him and we'll, or was that after gangs in new york, I can't remember what was a b is that, where the relationship with him and we in order started Zack, I remember one gangs in new york was made. I just know he's done in several movies with Leonardo is done several moment now. I think their relationship, precision presented yeah so like with collateral you working with was that the way we're shooting the most movies one that executive same time, okay, okay, and what, with with collateral that I thought it was interesting like insensitive how you captured los angeles in heat. How you can, then, how captured it in collateral and also like how you made the chicago a character in in in thief that you know these. You must think these through pretty we thoroughly in terms of how you going to represent the city. We did three months of research and development on camera systems to be able to see into the night
four collateral, so collateral of the first photo real shall I deaf mocha with with care, yet today or like the primitive like stuff, each cameras might like you're on like like this? only a vague hungrier and arm and We were able to cause. You know how it is in l, a in the year when we are marine layer comes in and the sodium vapor lights near bounces off those low hanging. Clouds and illuminates show that you can't see that on film motion picture from he writes it and he can't take it and you're not going to have any depth of field The other way you could do that I started using, some high shooting so high death. pieces in all lie- and I was stunned by one scene in particular that we shot during the right after martin luther king gets assassinated and riots break out in Chicago yep and it was a flat
telling style at the scene had that makes this a kind of ultra real or real so you invited that you, like the definition you got dead, and that I, but I wanted to use the technology to to be able to see into the night of show it isn't fair. I get a late afternoon and northern europe or something where you, but it's nice all right, then she ended up. So we we developed a whole bunch of techniques for being able to shoot it, but then the first three weeks, I'm shooting collateral. There was no. While we did tests You said a seeing the lab. We get a film out and is, magenta same piece of film and x day. It's all cyan he had so. I used to have these nightmares, that this is all conceptual art and only exists in my memory, nothing's real. I have no. I have no movie here yeah, figured it out you dollars, it was. It was okay, big, a word because it's a date
if only a different l, a you know like the things that have changed in the city? between heat and now or between heaton collateral were sort of like a lot because I was in l, a white downtown starting to turn around. Wasn't it I dont tell starting to turn around, but but in in it well in heated and also in collateral. You know what you mean dance of heat, I was out there. Lee one eye: are we on the weekend with a guy? Who is it commander really was in plain clothes, and we would just answer radio calls to la two three in the morning for six, and that's how I really learned the city and so that brings you in. Caribbean section of south central. That brings you into the samoan areas of san Pedro. You know into the eye of things bars and discos that are that are every everybody's from Sinaloa I mean it's, so you really know side. This self imposed entertain ministry ghetto right
real ella is very fragmented and spread out is very fragile. Spread out is right, is virtually have to travel to these play bryce. What compels you to do public enemies the world a night in the world, a nineteen, thirty thirty three. Therefore, you always just one to do it, and why not, about it because I used to live lockable blocks and apply a graph were worked in russia, and so much or chicago is. Is the same. The here and down If the world was in more ending de the the non fiction bore public enemies are realised, this was a bear. Cuba was an evil genius. This was such a turning point in history. That became very, very dramatic. The first air state, true interest. Lincoln highway, one thousand nine hundred and twenty six or one thousand nine hundred and twenty seven or one thousand nine hundred and thirty. Three,
reliable. The aid engine, which means you can travel all these highways endlessly. The will is the flag ford flooded, the eight this nineteen, thirty three nineteen, thirty four and here guy gets out of prison after bring isolated for eleven years is not like he's got tv or the internet emily amply we. I shall waited within three four weeks. He is living in the most current neighborhood in chicago. He knows worst thing about everything and there's just some specs any keeps no delay glove on them. his grabbing more headlines that a president of the united states nationally and there's no end game here. What are you doing in here? and I'm so much of it was, was tactile for us. We were able to get so close to it. We are, I said, lobo. He mia with big shootout happens. There can still be around to call up and sure enough. It still around will have very little at no. They haven't remodelled it
about his room totally unchanged, and I left the ball holes in the wall notion. Let's go shoot. There can be very expensive to rent this, how all by all, maybe two thousand dollars a week. Look but then I just they had what his suitcase they still had. Does your with his claws, who did that little bohemia lodge crazy and we bonded it and sent it, and so Johnny was able to put on his underwear on his pants fuck. It really really and you don't know if you want to know something about another guy the character. What kind of Does it by what? What what does it by some of the little pattern? Sallow socks, argyle desperate, tells you about somebody got our guide of another guy got all the answers. What answers about that's crazy
in the miami vice movie. Now you like, I guess I was missing for now what you didn't have any did the tv show was was that it was created by your creator. The creator is the guy who wrote it yeah, tony york, of which created my own advice. He was called gold coast yeah and I we're tony. We change the title to miami vice and you are just a producer on it. I was executive, those executive producer becoming kind of like the executive director, sure cuz. We do twenty two hours, a season and do and tony, was out of about the four sixty nine percent. Ok and then laugh so I was you know they get tying the directors and you, gonna, music and pick an occasion briskly, bringing my fisher film crew into tv and tv was a very moribund medium at that moment in time very conventional
and it had a inferiority complex, and why should it hey? Why should it not just be one hour of cinematic? the same ways I'd shoot a brought the immersive element more than that we're gonna make we're going to make, a one hour movie to say would make a two hour movie and keep doing it. That way, until somebody makes a stop- and did not dead and also, but I will first stereo showin beata breaking new music and before I found some cash her and I in there and saw the movie what sort of an o mine too tell them reminder the movie was was with movie was, was you know extend project What miami vice would be now, if you're doing good, of right around six ryan and not an oh much.
I would like. Other people may have been more satisfied with a ding omage. I wouldn't have been interested in doing it. If I wanted you, I was spy was taken with by then I knew much more about the pathology of under undercover serious. general. I a lot of guys. You do unbelievable stuff in particular d, a special operations division, which has narco terrorism and and pulling off wild stuff, like victor boot, in each other, people get apprehended why those operations are unbelievably complex and the undercover work they do. I convince a module, casare victor boot, yet they really are buying that they really are are the farc and they really will buy arms and victor boot, Access to the whole of us be data
We want to run you wanna buy something for me I'll, find out thus to get you here and demanded a pull off this unbelievable operations, and but what does a pathologies too get way go so deep under cover the fabric, Identity becomes the more Their own identity have that they shouldn't scary, they start to become looser, which way's up Donnie Brasco was kind of daddy brass does pretty good with what I've talked to a lot of guys who we've lived through there for real? I knew one guy in particular, who did not and will more so so that was well guess, that's what's happening to cooperate in a right and then it was supplied supposed to end The whole ending was a big difference both to happen and should, at last day, in the three boys, this trouble frontier work way, bull,
paraguay, brazil and argentina made severely trade joan via with, syrian taiwanese in is south american. very, very sophisticated, transnational organized criminal yeah operations operate basically free riley and that's where you to end it try this or whatever. We want them, surely there about three days, but that place plays a major role in in the book. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah fascinate with their place us fascinated work. It's is crazy, I mean it's. I had an assistant to was taiwanese. She was getting her masters business, versatile love. School of economics spoke five languages. It was coming back to go join the family business, which was counterfeiting software. and that's what they did here and here operation, and so so that's it it's a big part of the new novel vets
A part of it and also moves into was south east asia so Crusher hurlers evolves. The novel begins. One day after the end of the movie, okay The crusher is wounded, is last survivor, Delirious YA drugs, the knights, try Nate john voids trying to get him out. and he gave come leave, comes aware that charlie trade em and at was dead, he's gotta get out of l, and then it jumps back. one nineteen eighty eight deals of by alive, obviously in the val kilmer you're in that whole crew, a broader rise of bank faulted night Hannah happens to be a key it quite a corrupt chicago police department, facing a home invader at all. Stories begin and eighty eight, it moves back in there. It takes some things are happening, mexicali,
almost like that this was you you Do it the same way in a movie? This is a book also to be very large movie. It's going to be a lawyer. Is that dirty underway? Yes, that's exciting! I can't talk about it, but yes, okay, I was wondering if it was. It was in in place of no I always want. I always wanted to do this book. I always wanted to to for the early life, of these guys yeah and then and then also worked into the project, to find a way to bring the past into the into the present and the present being about two thousand and two seven years after the events of four. one of the of heat, the movie. So how do you like it or how do you catch that if you're going to do a film very, very large ways, yeah yeah, cause you're very good?
lasting, like out, get Tom cruise to play against type like that. You just want to work or he loved the idea of love. The idea for a fantastic, great, his dialogue in the back of a cab square is just still correct me up here, and also Like you've got Russell Crowe right at the peak of Russell cronus yeah, I I think world ross is working in an insider's, really amazing. Alright, man was great. The book is exciting everything like it and you and your your busy, mostly the book to her. Now he already just to improve. Now, I'm just I'm off on what you can do for our him of robbery yeah, so I'm leaving tomorrow later tuesday night in florida, for I too didn't you do that. Might we have? I didn't? I didn't really work. I I I developed a script back when you got fascination with cars is chez I do, but that doesn't mean you make a movie about it via. What's driving this one, The whole movie is three months and three months of the summer of nineteen, fifty seven and ferraris life, and it's it's an opera melodramatic, okay,
never think he's been collides was what he might be common accomplish gone boston. His wife eyes out about the other woman and other is its is spectacularly operatic melodrama in real life. I why fun grades I plan to say? Thank you, that guy's, a guy man that guy is a director guy. To a novel comes out august nine. What amazed targeted michaelmas you can priority now, where ever you get your books, so you're, one of the first ones to have it, and Just hang out a minute. Can you hang out hang out a minute oh Nikki Glaser! Is back on the show on thursday Why we're starting to do that, a little more, especially with people. I know, especially with people who it's been a long time since I talked to you sense especially
people. I want to talk to about other may be iniquity. You know he's got some things going on scott, especially out there now sky and show a funny fucking it some you know fuckboi show, I don't know, but Nikki laser and it got filthy very quickly and it got got pretty raw. I pretty real pretty quickly so and I like her so. We hung out. I'll be just for laughs in montreal for my gala or gala on Saturday July. Thirtieth also be doing solos up there on July, twenty eighth and twenty ninth in I'll, be in Columbus, ohio at the southern theater on august. Fourth, indianapolis indiana am at the old national centre on august fifth louisville kentucky at the bomb hard theater august. Sixth, then I'm back at Dinesh typewriter in l, a on august, fourteenth lincoln nebraska at the rococo
Theater on august 18th. Des moines iowa at the hoyt sherman place on august nineteenth and the city, I work at the english theatre on august twentieth. Then, in september, I'm into some arizona, phoenix arizona, bolder colorado in toronto, ontario canada knocked over em in london, england in dublin, ireland go to deputy of pod dotcom, slash to her for all dates and ticket info. man for a club, shows in vegas brain the real work exhausted after that, sweaty hundred and six eighteen degrees out there definitely fuck you, whether hussein, the fuck you, I adena pick your god we say, offers comprehensive protection not only against intruders and burglary, but against expensive home hazards from flooding to fires.
Monitoring plans are afforded we price at a dollar a day with no long term contract or hidden fees, because feeling save at home didn't break the bank. You can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at simplisafe, dot com, slash wtf go today day and a free indoor security camera was twenty percent off with interactive? monitoring again that simply safe dot com slashed w ts- let's get out there on this, let's get out there on this desert guitar, let's get out there a little bit. Let's find it find it with a what
Bounce a little echo
the I I the
boomer lives monkey in the fonda cat angels everywhere. I.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-29.