« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1365 - Brett Morgen

2022-09-12 | 🔗
Documentary filmmaker Brett Morgen likes to go into the deep end with his films. He never wants to repeat himself, or repeat any other docs for that matter. He wants his films to be an experiential, subjective expression, not a declaration of truth. All of this makes Brett an ideal director to tackle a subject like David Bowie, which he does in his new film Moonage Daydream. Brett and Marc discuss his work on other docs about Robert Evans, Kurt Cobain, Jane Goodall and O.J. Simpson, and Brett details the near-death experience that made him see the Bowie project differently.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck nix what's happening? I mark mare- and this is my podcast welcome to another day. I hope every He got through the dark anniversary of our country yesterday September eleventh. grieving people still from that, and I hope I hope you're. Ok today I'll, be ok in general. To be honest with you got some rain. In los angeles, which is so fuckin rare and so weird and so I'll come like my mind. I was hoping deluge. I was hoping for that rain, where, where homes slide down mountains, where we're row
get washed away a I needed a biblical rain for away. I needed, I needed the soil to be wet for weeks, but that it seems that the guys it's not quite sure how to to to- rain anymore. It's like! Oh, you look at the sky here and it's all it sort of like do those com know what they're doing have they lost? ability to do with their supposed to do with the very strange thing: happening in the atmosphere, but we did get some rain. and it was a it- was amazing got somebody reached out to me because I've been sort of rambling on a politically about water and somebody got got back to me. Somebody would some experience I share that with you in a second, I would like to say that I will be. at largo hearing. Tomorrow night playing some music with the fellows so doing some comedy and I'll have I'm binder they're doing
I'm comedies well and dan tell for will be there and mean that the band Don't do some of my simple three cord covers may be for cords, occasionally a fifth cord comes in, and I also want to announce if you haven't noticed already that I I offer my boom, I oiled my boom. That's not code! I build my boom can hear any squeaking. You can't get a moving around a moving. The my ground, no squeaking went bots w de forty scored opera places, no squeaky peace, yeah you're, welcome those you're on that today, on the show I talked to this guy bread, morgan, Ok, so he's a documentary, film maker here. He made that the kid stays in the picture years ago, Kurt kobe montage of hack he made that is well jane the Jane Goodall documentary he also made doc com
June, seventeen, ninety ninety four, which was part of e S, peons thirty, thirty series, and he just erected a d about David Bowe called moon age, daydream, which I saw, but this guy and I go AK. I couldn't quite remember the exact details after he had directed the kid stays in the picture. I think in the buzz after of that he was signed on to do a chauffeur comedy central. Any is up for me, what it was and what the situation was and I remember you You know that he had a certain swagger to him. He still does but- obviously- I went I've watched many of these things. I think I've seen everything he's made actually and I believe I that the document They did for p espn call june seventeen. Ninety ninety four is one of the great document films, it was kind of a brilliant conceit
in the assignment. I will talk to him about that. I'll talk to him about this David boeing movie, witches challenging and a bit interesting. It's a lie. Piece of work. and it's it's all footage of bowie talking it's all most of it I believe his words there's other thing There's a lot of montages of things. He's done bits and pieces are bits and pieces of things that for him to do things and- trusting the choices is guy made cause. You know me a while to realise and to learn that document refill making is not journalism. It's it's! It's a its directors. John! It's! You know you, the director the point of view and presents whatever what's were sent out of the fact said he you know he's going from there's a broad contacts with it. In its interesting white.
Director will sort of provoke in you, with the way he's put together the facts, or his interpretation of the facts and with challenging a little bit. The the boeing movie was pretty spectacular. That family was on board. The estate was on board so that they got to use music. I think it's going to be some sort of a big I max expire science, which is great but always great, but ultimately it did make me look at both in a different way for better or for worse humanizing? Is it? Is it you know it's a double edged sword you know when somebody is mythic or amazing or or even charismatic, so they become humanised you you have to reckon with that. You have to reckon with the realisation that these people are mortal they're, just people I mean I It happens to me all the time here, but ivy
do you have the opportunity to talk to David Bowie. So it's you who is it quite an undertaking that was good talking to her to brag about it. So here it's happening here. There came created this humidity. Look. I hope for four happy end but they're not real and I've been very pack elliptical above the water situation. I've been apocalypse, take about almost everything it pull politics that the drug when the water situation, I think about it all back in time, but I have to sort of try to understand what exactly I was thinking about like why there it there entitlement to it where, we in this house for a few years, my old house to have much of a law on, but this house came with this view: four landscapes situation, and I mean there's a selfish is too it's sort of like why I don't want to watch his die. I mean I don't want to get depressed and watch it die. I do I don't want to
necessarily rip it all out, but probably gonna, be the right thing to do. But but its night it is somewhere my mind. It's like. Why is the environment fucking us like this right? One thing we're getting ok, for me and the house in this now why world have to end at this inconvenient time. For me, I'm just if you're, ok about myself in my life for the first time so this guy reaches out, sir decline. See a water situation from an expert awry. Great, I mark fan. I also happen to be a civil engineer with twenty years experience working directly for the california department of water resources, metropolitan or district ellie d, w p s bureau of reclamation, the agencies in utilities at oversee, always water supply. This eyes on the inside. He's gonna laid out for me
discussing this topic on your latest episode, I thought I would send this email to you. While I moved to tucson last year after twenty years and angelus were in the same situation with water, and I continue to work on water projects all over the south west. A right we're gonna, get some truth. is there enough water for a yes, but with serious changes needed. Ok, Southern California will have to stop using water to your landscaping, while ok knew that I see no way around that very soon say goodbye to the green grass and lush landscaping of los angeles southern a forty eight will soon look like arizona does not. This is not a craziness. He saying because it was a desert. To begin with, everyone happens in addition to a few other feasible water supply. In concert, in projects there would will be plenty of. Summa water. Well, beyond our lifetimes, will you get it
message from Gavin. Yes, but it will be your stop watering, your lawn and plants, not a message to only water a few days a week, but a message that doing so will have serious consequences. I foresee the next few years, each house, business in southern california, where they water limiter installed based on. The bull space square footage you will get an adequate month. We water allowance exceeding why the result in heavy fines or shut off. That will be the main despite being change. Ok, so. and he says the main thing to worry about. As always the people Don't care about the situation in those that pedal fear instead of solutions? Now I think, that's you speaking to me. I am then take them personally. Sleep a little easier knowing there are plenty of smart people like myself, hopefully that are working on sound science based solutions. Scott Ok, so here it is everything's going fine, you just
have to dig up your yards dig up here, in spring, or situation and get rid of all of that, and just Sort of welcome back the desert, if you been defeated, sir, to saunter utah that we're always going just another desert town with the heat beaten down no more yards no more trees. Yes, maybe the palm trees a barrier, I pray more cacti, and there might be a little inconvenience in that you have some sort of giant. Gauge vow. on your property that way allocate a specific amount of water to you and yours, and if a If you dont honour what it says, you will be fine, and or have to learn to live without water. So that's comforting just to get for the desert and get ready for you, the big guy,
big gauge out in the yard. Thank you, Scott. Sobering, but I appreciate being sorted of educated, so that said the rain came, but not referring to look brett. Morgan. I kind of you know I kind of you know. I went at him a little bit because I thought he could take it and I thought, We would have that kind of conversation. That kind of remember meeting him before moonies daydream is new. Documentary opens in theatres this friday september, sixteenth. including in large format, I'm axes, which is how I would see it if you can- and this me talking the bread morgan Yeah the this has just out that my producer about the
sanctioned docks, that there are pretty, common in music and and I watched the Zz top one I watched the Leonard Skinner one and I watched the clapped him one that one you know that almost was I mean clapton was the best at all of the sanctions, docks cause sort of owns. Oh shit, but the other ones are just come. It's like it's a it's just a commercial. thing it's a racing of time- revision its marketing to what we have so wouldn't make hired me to do crossfire. Hurricane is two thousand and eleven. and he said he wanted to do something for the fiftieth anniversary, but. What he didn't tell me was they were planning to tour in november of thy utter and so ultimately I was making promotional product I just enough,
I you know, I make sense because they're, you know they're, basically marketing tools, advertisements for the product, the band yeah, I've been very lucky on an montage pack and on We each stay dream. The executors gave me panel cut and You know that a huge risk, because you're putting the whole brand, if you think of it As a right They do certainly duncan does I I did a movie about bowie that he would sign off on it was I had nothing to do with the movie. I just played a in our guy, but- and I've talked it duncan before, but there very protective of that state- they get. You know in my situation with moon age, it was opposite were we. say acquire the rights. The executor said davy. I had approved the film right. It's never gonna be david bowie on David Bowie. It needs
we brought morgan on David belly and you need to embrace that so From the very beginning, it was one artist is interpretation of another and witness he's attached and access to anything in that the archive co. Baines executive David burns gave me the same point. And I remember one david when I had the first I called them up, and I said I'm ready to show you the film and he said, am I going to like it and I was like whoa you're not going to sell any t shirts yeah it also. It depends on what you're you know you're looking for, but I think in both cases they were looking for something authentic. right and they world the dice. You know that that it would work out. we I mean, and also that I mean they're, those too Are they would you both are very different approaches to that type of no, I mean they're their different. I could see the sea of what
realizing the boeing doc became in the Cobain doc, I have tried to make each fellow my career, like a theme park, ride of this subject, shirts other really document he said are coming. Probably more so than the other ones, korea, and ah they're all designed to kind of personify the subject there. Men to be active experiences, a bow. He is not a film about David belly now it's amendments designed to sort of bee bowie ed, It's it's the experience about me, from your point of view, a clearly Oh it's interesting about that. But wait before we get embark on those fulfilled would have been interesting idea from your point of view. Shirk or I mean there is no way. I mean obviously yeah your point of view, but but there's no, you know I had this conversation with a barbara cobol you're about, then the notion of journalism went when it
the documentary and she was like that, doesn't exist and that's not our responsibility yeah but like my misconception that the time we're just cause- I don't know, what's wrong with my old time he hed dead, I had somehow or another, there was some there were some that was the motivating force, but I I know it's not true. Because we're raise in Generation trusted walter com I rise russia. The newspapers and document hearings were extension of that, sir. I then we were coming grown up. Documentarily word journalists, that's all that for the most let me know or exceptions bud. was generally howard's thought and I I've been doing this for twenty five years and its definitely still a part of the. I think it's still There is still an onus you're still unknown is that when people are going to a new fiction found that the its it somehow fact based
information base by even but it sure but like now. Given. you're. Even the work of me it's just an in nature of even went out to talk talk, am producer. About studying for tiger That the eu, in order to establish photography, is an art form that a break in two of thought, which were document terrance and artists. I guess it also with with film I mean you know when you look it using reality or or pieces of it. You do with movies. Like, I would say, a source for some of this stuff we're doing is even like koyaanisqatsi scotty or some of those movies, where you do have a montage with layers of music. That is up to you We have been in pieces of found footage or or footage of this or that to make a point, but I think you know when you get the Cobain doc, that sort of more traditional doing in that doc. Fairly straight up. You know talk to the friends kind of dock yeah, that's true
but before we get into it, like I I saw doug hurts argue that at this screening last night and I asked him because, like we do We do a thing for come within four comedy central weed. the pilot in two thousand. the real yes right or comedy central called confessing right waste on eating. Yes with, right and as well tree sony all I'm using amazing cas thought of general to write bob sham all yom moon units zap. I was on it me you're on it yeah, but our members, a couch. You a cow Chiana, sad that I yeah honour at sony studio in new york, yeah and embodied the pro
it was, you know, tell the story and you are going to do that. The magic animation thing right, yeah! I didn't want to animated. That's why I never got a push forward. I thought the stories were so good that they didn't need to be animated and then they have then they didn't want it now see. I I get that there was this the comedy central wanted it to be your series animated and we drift off an animation, but I couldn't take my eyes off the storyteller, I'm sure I didn't and I didn't see there was any reason to do that. Yeah. I thought it'd be really kind of shitty and gimmicky ceo, so it didn't. so that was it talks. That was it so there so yeah. I remember that I remember I remember stage remember big red couch and I remember seeing kimmel member people around there was no audience so now. There was an audit. We did one day without an audience and then we brought an alien sand and I flipped the script. So I had you on a white cyc and then I flipped it to like to I had another set up that look like canada was design like lenny, like a nightclub, yeah, ok, so, but
was right on the war that that, was you coming out of the success of the kick he says in the picture? Yes yaya, which employed the the sort of like a the the exciting zooming into still photographs and three dimensional ising them via photo animation. Yeah photo animation. That was the that was the big thing and and basically that duck because the weird, almost underground popularity, of the audio book and yet which would be passed around. It was just I've members on tape in the EU we were something that you could buy, but people we're passing it around. Like you know, you can't get this shit and it was like two or three three, maybe three or four cassettes of him. Talking now and it was like it was like the it was like. Dayton he was like aden talking, emu is like listening to you. I just I just said devil that had the time of his life. Pat have you heard
patton's, impersonation yeah. I remember him doing it back in the day he did a bit on it and he did okay, a baba, but that film speaking of what we were talking about, speaking with earlier the first line of that Missouri three sides: every story, your side by side. In truth, known as lying memories serve each differently. That was for me. massive police. Gall bomb. onto the documentary this idea of documentary as truth right right, that was my kind of tea and a like is no objectivity, so the only truth can be subjective so embrace said that rapid yourself around bad and you're at least achieving possibly see you know eight, not an objective but a, I think, a something
more truthful to bob to revealing the character that's being and that that was something he said in his book we are, and that was that The reason that you say like without I made you say, I'm doing this guy, No, I wanted to do bob because I wanted to make a car a documentary comedy it's really hard when you're me in the document? Free unless you're doing it on a comedian too You crave, you know, think about, like in the history of documentary, does like hands on a hard body. American movie, I mean is of real handful of like comedy I'm not even sure american movie. You set out to be that it's really funny greatly great. But, like you know, ultimately, its is rooted in a profound. Agnes and delusions. Smerdyakov adequately met her sad ass being the point of view of the pertinent illusion to think that they can make it as a common, but Ok, so
do you remember you, you did you did use that footage of him playing a lunatic of his neighbors acting career, yeah, yeah, two too pretty good use. He I never saw them and that the photos and man were we so now foam before he made a t, focus features would become I became pugs features year. It was a document that was designed to go into movie the ears, and so we felt we had to do something different. Not just king had and what have you and Bob's and also going back to this objective iii. The idea. Of of creating they d distorted photographs, yet were intended on one level to constantly remind the viewer that this is it this subjective.
irritation. This is a young bob's ache. It's sort of a distorted truth if you will, but it's like that old french new wave trick of you know you're watching a movie yet as losers bracket, I mean it was a bracketing technique to bail you out of it and yet, at the same time it serves to be seductive. In sublime says, its seducing you out of you, drive her now so Why may I had a profound impact but like but already So where do you come out of? I mean what was to be the beginning because you know clearly with this bowie movie, you know you you watch into some other thing that you know in in this, in the sense that you the ultimately my feelings about bogey probably shifted watching it, probably not for the better. Interesting, the an end, but it seems to me, though, in talking about subjectivity what you were doing with this subject,
was moving through ideas about time, art death, your work, love life. You know and an a honesty like there were yogi through I like bogey, who taught the way he did, things and also presented the way you did and evolved and changed way did it was. It was MR an amazing power, for you as somebody to explore these ideas. The minimum possible canvas right ever yeah like to me. It's a transition into something that is, I guess, it still falls within documentary. But this is, you know, a big movie about big ideas in its specifically, an art film really
is that wrong. Well, let me call it that yeah, yes, and no I mean do we consider bowie's music, art, music or pop music, and I think that what bowie did is he created art, music that also has pop music or anything he created in the berlin period. Here is straight up on guard its leader mental music and has construction, how we arrive there and the technique employed we'd be considered if you all It is interesting that as yet right, you ok so use focused on that. It is obvious that this is so a conversation early on forgot the keys to the to the archives, and I fully back to new york, and am I sat down with bells this spot, whose David some executor area, where this matter for years. And I said bill
Bohemian rhapsody had come out and I saw bohemian rhapsody fourteen times the first fifteen days of myopia. Aha, ok, I saw the sound in the movie the esa is. It was fast by buy that mix and am- and I realized and you know like rock a man was commanders like I was. I look we can approach if there's a way to make this found that is incredibly accessible, like a g box musical turn your brain off. You just sing the songs we walk the audience through the aid received by ways to wear, make it very digest. The ball and straightforward and will probably gross, a significant number of her nonfiction fire or the design and pack a like bowie, which his arm, which is no more challenging a little more engagement, but a little more experimental and
oh, let me was I well that's your problem. and what I want. I can imagine that there really concerned about making money right. So what I realise that the sorely thereafter was the way to make the most pop or accessible david Bowie foam. If we believe that david byways music is camp pop are accessible- is to sort of mere boeing and said be bohemian rhapsody version verbally is hopefully moon, age daydream, which is even less trusting the amount, which is a cabo we found cannot be, should not be The result wikipedia that doesn't get or or both played by any body of If you add that if you ago at night I saw that happened right in front of me. It's difficult. You know, and but you know ugly, you know Johnny flynn, not do a bad job. Now
you don't know. I the boeing is ridiculous, and- and certainly at that point his career. It was almost embarrassing Like I didn't really know that you know when I started doing that movie, I thought, like not egg look nothin's gonna know It's going to fall on me he's the guy right, but when I looked at he was drawing from research wise it. It's ridiculous! and even in watching your movie. Like look, I stopped with him, but with he probably scary monsters in that came out in height I might add, when I was in high school and that might at you. I am I a check back in around let's dance and I did see him mad fox borough. You know stadium on the web. and store, but I mean I was so far weight and have an impact, but when I was a kid I was in it. You know, and I and I had to do it from an guard musician in the town. I grew up in europe
in terms of you know what you no matter, what hassle meant what fred fritz meant, what that world men in their residence in this and that, coming into what became that berlin period and understanding some of that. But ultimately, I'm still thinking I just saw the film- I know your movie and in what is doing in my brain around bogey as an artist is- rising to meet people who know things like if you know if you have your own, what you know a little bit about barely a lot about by me when I a private middle metal again you bring out to the found during you fill in the blanks. Ultimately, what happens in the movie for me is that you know, guy you gonna happen, with the Cobain one. To is that whatever you're doing that, you know you're in, way that you humanizes guys what europe against is the myth, verses ye know. This sort of
weird fragile egos that they are, and also that this sort of half baked people that they are like you, you know Cobain, it's very hard, even in the shadow of the music and whatever the fuck. His wife is not to think that I was kind of a dick who did take responsibility for his personal issues and her out of people because of it and with both you know it's hard not to watching going holy shit, this guy, was really a shattered kind of light nebulous person that probably and function, at all if you didn't have music that you know when by the time he leaves I leave for berlin. It seems to me from all the footage- and you can put it together yourself if your fan by watching that stuff is at he must have almost killed himself yet through exhaustion, overwork drugs, whatever the fuck it was by the time he the berlin he he had to have almost died. In my mind, that does that really, I think, is eighty five pounds when he right yeah. So
by the to berlin- he's got no choice but to regroup. Somehow and too protein, honesty and and take that risk of sort of like war. If I'm an artist, we didn't to figure this out, because whatever that clown show I've been doing however, many records year is not is not who I am. I can continue it because it almost killed me. so then, he aligned himself and collaborate and end and read your gets his hand on the pulse of sufi. I think he's a very good, intuitive cipher of of stuff, but It seems to me that seeing him talking in those pieces of footage about berlin was It is as honest as as I I ever imagine him capable of being My take on bowie from the interviews we as how I was able to access him was for them. sport that he was incredibly present and now
showing sometimes deflecting you know not wanting to get, but no matter what in any in any manifestation. He was a pretty present because he liked to be jarring to empty. This was my single greatest takeaway david was that he viewed. Each moment as an opportunity for an exchange for growth yeah and and We're really was illuminated was in the eighties when he started. in other words, a shift between his enemies with rock journalists and the seventy zero who are pretty knowledge of all anew his reference points and then, it's in the mid two ladys and suddenly he's begins. Interview by entertainment tonight and and the I would see the pre were all before the cameras are roy and David is engaging with them, and he we're condescended. He never look down. He heat woods. Talk to about books. He just read in trying to shares to any was like.
I was kind of an ah I was like- why is even talking to this person they haven't and their work. I dont end and that's where I just kind of honed in that it was like every moment he made every moment mattered and they was most illuminated by seeing him with these really dodgy reporters and seeing how there, but he would when you're that when he was, For in berlin, I they character, people like to refer to character, David in the movie, I don't talk about character other than Ziggy Someone asked me today. What might ever character was- and I said what I do- This is an official character, but I, like the professor, the professor, was the carrot if you well, when he was promoting heroes and The mid seventies, who was
a great intellect to love talking about chaos and fragmentation, right and nietzsche, and where I am, the everyone borneo, an einstein in freud breaking down the the fabric of our end like he got off, and this is why he's trying to see he era's gray and he said something their proper. more poignantly than he did later at other points as they put it. talks about being a sort of culture, I apologize and putting a time stamp on a moment for our future s right and why What I started to recognise was that both we and I again It'S- I think people tend to think. Peter s like there's this interview where he talked about the internet that gets fight, put area, sulphur media every three weeks right. He wasn't
the future as he was like a great artist more sensitive to what was happening now. The rest of us just took a little longer to process it. I understand what you're saying- and I guess going back to what I'm saying is that, like it seemed to me the reason I wrote that resume with me, not not in terms of character was at it a felt to me that it was the first time he was fully taking risks, its ability for his ego. For his dry there's an artist and and and being collaborative in a way. That was a lot more conscious, and I also think he knew he was down for the count. I think he knew that whatever he had done was done and either he was going out. You know with the rest of his life plain those fucking. Fifteen songs you have that were hit or he was gonna take a chance. There was a mobility there of a guy who would like emerged from annex mental life and was going to take responsibility over. What he sighs expression after another path forward for that charity. Cause use is suggested here,
display the same songs are or whatever I would say that what most sardus do is can need to write a new songs in the flames. And spirit of the ones that sold because they're trying to hold on desperately sharing onto their excess enough, the army armilla right and what bowie dead and what I've guess so revolutionary about the berlin thing. Is he blew the whole system up and he said I'm gonna I'm not gonna write, songs anymore, and I don't have a parallel for that, it's it's it's is, is it it would be like James, non oda. be crisper nolan, a factor who works with a huge and sombre here, sir, I'm ngos make. This other family am quarter by myself like insists fear. It was so stripped down, and One of the things that show remarkable about it is when we think about pop artists. think about entertains. We think about actors. We think about.
There are so few When you have that success were willing to risk. It and put it all on the line and blow it up in bali. It wasn't a joke and he could very easily written eight more, problems in this and they would have sold grade and low sold great, but he did on his terms and and- and then you know I can not let stands to me one of the revelations when I was going through the suffers, so I, where I think, the same age, who's close to fifty seven fifty eight years I just helped you up the little lady. You I'm fifty three right, sir so scary monsters was my introduction right. I was seventh grade in punk ish enough, to think the. What stance you know was a bit of a sell out the timing out to the one. After that it was like this no uses when I was list. in vienna. We use for the foam and theirs
great enemy, with least robinson graver, music journalists and ah David. Would it was pre, let stanza it's in the family by we talks about how he's tired people perceiving him his icy and that he wants to be part of the mainstream, and that here is to produce warmer accents. Any wants to be more exact, and imagine this mark fifteen years into his career were most artists are, are like retiring or playing that the heritage circuit. He actually says as a social experiment. Now at last to try pop stardom needed in sweden movement like about picasso numinis, like I've tried this I've tried this I've tried this. Let's try this, let's be superstar and then becomes the biggest superstar in the world, and then it becomes out of a greek tragedy in the sense that he does. He stayed to long enough
enjoyed the trappings of success here, because that's where the turn like it's really interesting When he saying like I just have to be an entertainer that was death. That was the death now and it's funny my maya distributor was trying to put. Peace on em tiktok, quick little soundbites. Today they pull that thing where he talks planning for feature. I like yo, dad not suppose via an an inspirational right idea that william moment bowie was dead and in fact in the film I superimpose as saying that a shot of him looking at is self dead on the ground. I think the thing among those. He had a sort of get bankrupt if you well I high like he had. He wouldn't Think he would have arrived at that, station, if he had slipped out of lebanon and quicker europe. He done three
they are and said, o k moving onto the next thing, I think that he had, he wasn't gaining satisfaction through your work, any error I ran. It was from that point that he is actors theirs. thing that I'm missing, I think So I am not apologists- but I will say this so why not when, when I met david in two thousand and seven, we I met with him to talk about a hybrid nonfiction fell, not dare something something different media and we met his offer. Some fifty Three we sit down at the small little spaces for thus in the room there, and you know these things usually go you you ve gone for patch and it's a lot of you know people kissing ass order and am I sit down and david amiss neither launches into a pretty harsh critique of my most
recent fell, which was as movie called chicago. Ten, the animated maria can't, say he was entirely wrong in retrospect, but as you can, but you say We take chances You know you hold this by the way. This is why I was freaking me out is he starts when say he's ripping me. It fell v very much like an assault because just and he wasn't costed and he was saying it in a very polite way. How do I didn't care for that is at an end? He said Have you seen the the weather underground by any chance, and I said the pbs documentary the talking had one and he goes yes. I much prefer that one. and I I was like wow- that's really interesting, because that's very kind of traditional and I I would have thought you would have appreciated some of what some of what I was doing and then his assistant, who is in the room, said: what's your favorite bowie album and I coming off of
Ten minute circuit, I'd like to David, said well to be totally honest david. I can't say I cared for anything you ve done since let stand and David lock enemy. I goes to shame nobody has ever said. I mean, do you ever hear someone say to shay in conversation. It's like you see it in movies. I be one of the things that you really capture pretty thoroughly in this documentary is that he was a kind of a dork and You know that there there is this sub this underneath thing, underneath whatever the hell he's doing, is this ridiculous mime and this ridiculous? You know sort of posturing, damn it's like whoa, I don't know if it's dark what it what I dig about. It is he's not the greatest answer. He's not the greatest singer, he's not the greatest actor. He certainly not the greatest mime there. You go but he's putting himself out there and is putting it himself out there
you do. You know when the stones here this is the price david pays for, take it a shot at you in two thousand and one will not be finished at story of so so it is said that you ve, said see eyes about quietly. Item will appreciate that stance. I hadn't heard anything he had done right. Let's have it has been a bit of a meal a day, and david passes in twenty sixteen year I receive the assignment to work on this file. An assignment I have whatever you want to call a good life, and I did I guy I hired myself to make the vote his time had come. So I start going through the catalogue. Fucking love posts, nine. Bali. I know you I I know your are and I I the tin machine. I played the shit out of the time machine I, like heathens to me, is like a foot
speaks so much to where I am right. Now in my life really yeah, I gotta give it a go. You gotta give a go, listen to heathens the raise your your work the day after and dark story I got into I like darkstar. I liked the the musicians that he he pulled together. He made a inconsistent record for a death note, but you know it was okay, I think happen after mine is we are, after the eighties all of us who are fans pre, let's hands, I think, stop me. A lot of people saw paying attention. She was at a much, better place and he'd ever been Actually, when I was younger with him on well, that's the other thing I was going to tell you is that you know that you doug into that terry stuff, and I think it is important and I think struggle for fur against and with mental illness was a real thing, and I think that you- cause of the name or of who he was and what he came from both
mentally and emotionally that he was really incapable of letting anybody in a genuine way. So by the time I am comes you realize, like all that you know, he's finally figured out there life is beautiful and in the end, I get that you know, and I appreciate it and was touching and the inner any did in a less cynical way kind of sea. The character of votes for me in the film the eu now in it in a genuine way, because I believed it. and you know you you made that the EU could feel that. I, like that, for the issue of him, the twelve string, guitar tar likened clearly the grown up kind of you older a bowie knife playing the hits in a way that he could do you find palatable. What was ever was from its fiftieth birthday party, mouths and scar guard That was something yet was, was really bought. You know it's interesting as I'm sure you notice it. There. this was one of my sort of again, I had never prior to giving myself the job
I had never read a book on David yeah and I'm david tie. in the film about how alien, nation and isolation, our stock in trade, but he never feel ellie needed isolated. and. during the seventies. During the what I call the transit period post, berlin via free, let stance I thought that the now, because we introduced the biographical components with his family that you recognise that he's what sort of what you alluded to that he's down and that he's running away from some of the area, and I never thought of it like and he didn't presented thou himself here, you know presented as I'm on the moon to gain experience right
or a lay it was never sure we all rationalizing right. Where I shall I did. I did find that kind of a looming aiding a bed in end in that because he was show in sight for about his goals and objectives. and I thought that was one area that he was unable to necessarily overtly connect your or maybe not want to discuss sure with the I think there is an element of him. That is like a kind of british year that There is a lack of communication about emotions. Now in all the games you sort of playing out right because the young, you could even emit thick, really they either one bit of of interview where you know kind of miss, characterizes love and then can a correction. self. Later right, separate you. He says He says he gambler network
it's it's contradicts, I suppose it. No, he says he's he loves love, but he cannot invited into his life because he dared to yourself a got. The that's pretty honest, its bout, the most honest, I've ever heard- and I wish was more if we would more There'Ll- be less divorces in this, but that but thought that's also given whether or not you can. You know express her feel love properly. What is the definition of that? You know ye He clearly has some sort of like his the way holds his ground on stage is very interesting, and it's not it's, unlike anybody else that there isn't it and city and almost all of looking far and away kind of thing that that is. that is in and of itself kind of distant here, either he's not needy up there now now. I really especially if he saw the ninety five nine in snails ter we had
is that right was it was that we had a little bit of hellas space by, but that's her words were. He went on stage and he only did three hit song any did them inversions that he can even tell what they are for the most part and was pretty much was. on guitar. He ever used on guitar amp yeah that by the end of those shows there were half empty arenas because people are there to see nine inch, nails who went on before him, yeah and and he wasn't changing it up but she could wish to change the sap less their happily into that sure. By light fuck you ya, gonna, fucking, Sophia, go back now, because I think we ve kind of like export that union. seems like I liked the way that they, like the one thing that keep coming up that that I kept trying to write my brain or because of the nature of how he died in knowing he was going to die
not everyone else. Knowing was gonna die in kind of writing this record in the last resort, you know in the shadow of his own death was kind of white and you want to kind of put it jovial, magical thinking on that, and you wanted Crowley back into it and symbols and everything else there is some sort of through line about about life. I don't know there's a way he was looking at death or moving towards it that debts to make it part of a continuum nuts John, a spiritual level, but but may be that, fine provocative and I'm not putting my finger on her right now. Do you know I'm talking here I mean theme is frenzy, and so the whole thing is trans fund and at the end, his lass, the law. and he says, is something along lines of. Does a man like why? If, if, if we're gonna fry out,
Why should we even invest in this thing? And he says you do it just to do it? You know just to carry on, but I mean given the given that this movie is all about it's your moving towards his death in that becomes sort of this nebulous event that you know what's gonna happen in the theme of trade. Since, in everything I mean, did this, what did you like? learn from the. Why why? Why were it's all about death so in? january, two thousand tv. I was dragging a pilot marvel, and I left this studio a b c and to moderate a spring at the silent film theatre why be tower and animated document raw and I had I did Adam Ass. A heart attack in your car, knowing
movie theater- oh my god, and fortunately we were three minutes from cedars. I flat lined in the e r am was then- put in a coma per week. It was my son's birthday and my daughter's born on David's but they saw was in a coma, birth a year to the day David died and I did I was forty seven and I did have a heart attack by. I had a heart attack is my life was totally out of control. Every I smoked I eat like shed ident exercise. I was work a holler working days a week, Tully stress out no balance my life here. and arm and when
when I started to recover, I began the research in bali, and so I have and when you have an incident like this ray, I had three young three preteen kids and you ask others over die what what's the massive? What did I why? What is the purpose of my life? What else? What's- and I was like- oh, at my kid- you see me these fathers, a cardiac, say dad thanks to show me the great work ethic. ignore iron- and I was like, what's the message in my life, that you work Harding, you die forty seven yeah. from the vantage point that I started ingesting bo yeah started? Even while we research show the idea of it being the film that it is the tap I'm just setting out to make this kind of entertaining sort of
David Bowie, immersive, experienced by You need an answer. I know, but suddenly realized I e through bowie. There would be this opportunity- to provide a road map for my children. I sort of blue. and for how to live. You know a balanced and if a pale life and an that's the message in the film bowie wasn't gaining knowledge for nirvana for some differences, some something that he was trying to drive towards. It was just improving the day to day right, and that's the let you know that to me is really wonderful. Job of the lesson that we don't really you you're going back to other music talks. I you go to a music doc forward. Jane, are far too prove your own
no I I yeah that's true, but uh yeah you go with. Sadly, I think he most people go for nostalgia. They go to have a a a a illustrated wikipedia of utter of our language is not a bad thing but, like ultimately it's good. Even if it's it's more can avert sordid and unhappy you. You know you do see something you didn't see before our eyes. While I was working in bali, which was, as I guess seven year odyssey I saw the bees fell, the aid will be jeez doc. I tear it out and I was what this is really good and not in, like art, show god you're. It's really in entertaining. It's really easy I kind of why am I making it so difficult for myself? What did the boy
jeez film is the bohemian rap see when I sat down with the estate and said we can do one of two ways like anything, but the reason that you have you do it the way you do it is because you have a formidable creative ego and the only way that its golf, and the only way that you know You can really way these guys. It is Your move through it with your own toning. Creating a b you not eat you, whatever you're serving the bowery thing is that you have feelings about bowie and Andy mesh we europeans in some of them are gutters? Some of them are bad, but view, honest. We honour your own voice in this. In your own point of view in this, you are, as you are equal to both in the presentation of bowie well in this instance on the film you were there: yes, where it's a collaboration if you're making choices about how to depict this guy's life or apps. but none of it
I dont know why this is, and I dont know why this is gonna sound, controversial, but all non fiction is autobiographical I mean this sounds it so try. It's gonna be controversial to nine people the then that can be allowed a quick of aid on that one. but I will say, as someone who creates biographies here, The moment I was able to kind of recognising knowledge was a mamma where I was able to get a lot more out of the work personally and be more direct about what I'm exploring with their wet weight. That must have started like I mean cause. The o j doc is, you know, is a big piece of work, yeah, it's a that's an important, our whatever in terms of ye know what you are able to do it, but also like look, maybe just what I'm saying When you look at the other thirty,
or, however many were done during that series about sports. You know you his query to eat up the fuck. All you guys, the guy we're going to real this we're bringing it all in. I can do what all you guys did it just like at fifteen minutes of mine and I'm going to layer it all the way up to the fucking end of it, but just a question of if you ve seen it before why in the world, are you doing it right that so shown that over thirty foot up the failure of for thirty and is that it was, I thought you were going to have a totally different films that each round would look nothing like the rest outside.
What happened out respectively. The sba they got my show they set is cut june. Seventeen nineteen, eighty four ia- and what did I would add- I received the same thing I received on the kid season. The picture, the same thing I receive on every foam. I gotta know from this from the network saying you need to get put talking had any reason and I was like well I'm not going to do that. You guys can take the film back, but if I put talking in it and vs and it's cookie cutter yeah and the The art. Is that it's not that it allows the audience to kind of bring their own interpretation fortune. We backed off and let me do the film. But what I realize then, is that when you're getting network noughts it homogenize is everything You know, they're giving the same. It's all I've been netflix documentaries. I think there's so unbelievably entertaining and discipline make sure I'd never work in netflix again, but
I was very, it's ok, there's there's a few other places here, but I wasn't doing a talk about. the construction of moon age mia in summer and this men who I later found. I was topics I cannot it was in the odd area and she said now it sounds like you don't like to collaborate and you, fellow collaborative medium, and I see what you I'm really have the opportunity clever out in the budget, and I had to make this fund by myself elaborating with the entire history of motion, pictures and television that, because of the way you do it will, I think, what I took here, was that there is this knowing that it was coming from an network executive who will never grand final cut to a filmmaker. yet your view not collaborating with the people that no nothing and our operating out of fear in terms of making notes on ura your little art project pete, so that it
looks like everything else understood their network as we like, but this is equally, why these artists? become. Not hacks is like they, they, the the the mode the the delivery system is hackneyed. You know like like we were talking about before. Maybe it's a stretch that you have the other the other, factory of an artist right, but we could have been, did didn't commit more records. It sounded like his eight records. Is that, like once they anybody thinks they get a system that make some bread. You know they're gonna, lock everybody into it. That's why where my deep neo going back. berlin, where I just don't know what the I dont have. Parallel. I mean I don't You think I am maybe that we probably do with actors who are actor, who. yeah, I guess you take chances away, but but the chance of an actor just sort of like well, you might, you might not get cast as this again, you ready for me to blow you away yet here's here's the actor who, I think has most emulated belly, yet nick cage for sure nick would three romantic comedy arrow.
and you are always romantic comedy. I may then do the most depraved non box office. I like is from where you are no one's, going to see this and you're kind of totally. Character so depraved and vulgar anger coming off of these frank cap. romance here. What are you doing and then going and then going I'm an afflict the script, and those were to me very conscious, deliberate decisions to both interesting when they see the new one. The unbearable idea scrape dead the software. I and I loved pig You know where your pigs, pigs, pig, is a second matter. Yes, but let's go. Let me just go back to I built this oven. Also, I can you know why didn't know you not enough. We re characterized moon. I daydream. You know in in terms of how visually spectacular it is, but you know you're drawing from it, not just for the djibouti and the music. But you know these are your quick cuts to all kinds of your sign films documentary pieces, like you know, it's really kind of an
school kind of pencroft. Film. In some parts, where you know you're just you know, you ve got this incredible catalogue of thing at you know, just go bang and you know you don't you're not asking why as a viewer but you're sort of like okay, you know this is all part of it. You know what I mean so you're kind of bringing that all in. I can't even imagine what you got. If we were still doing things on film, you would have been just in a room with thousands of strips of thelma hanging by god, or even though, what your desktop look like in terms of what you were pulling from you know the interesting thing about that is when bowie was like a cultural passport, While I was introduced to boroughs when I was a teenager through both here and I was introduced to german expression as a mere you at an end would be or he would make a reference to. I
some artificers satin like one word and I would trigger something so that so I wanted to incorporate some of that sort of my vote I belong to the family, you don't have to know the reference he added, you get it in our own. If you don't you down in its suburban or not or two, it is that's interesting, started rooted in decisions that you may therefore re image that is not david's in the film, with something that he was inspired or influence by throughout his life and that he referenced at some point very eager, but let's back in terms of like you know what drives you. We talked about the kid stays in the picture and I think that, like ie noted your that that line resonating with you about subjective by but and then the the Cobain doc
what was the kernel like- and I know there's other ones that I really look. I I dunno, if you listen to me, talk to Jane Goodall but yeah yeah. That was great yeah, where she sort of like well. He manipulated yeah. I very much so but june seventeenth to me you as a dock, that you know fully subjective and new control over him was all you know, based in It only use existing footage of the day and some stuff from oj passed, but you know- You did by that by matching those things together, just what was happening on that day and sports in the world and then you all in the shadow of that bronco. Ultimately, was really kind of an interesting document that that represents the end of of me. Culture as we know it yeah I mean in set out that way, he had just set it out to make a brief comment. Documentary visa
I was like: oh, we can do. The car chase sure played great and he had bbq, but you made a choice at rowing to use footage of the day. Yes, but we the choice only is footage of the day and made a choice to make a found that would invite the audience to arm to be able to reflect on their own experiences, bring whatever it my films there's no force narration trying to invite the audience participate through. I think like bye, bye, bye, bringing all those things together by bringing in a sort of you now are farmers in alaska world, though in an open and then the other rangers women, the elderly we die, my second time in history and then the at the NBA play off like all this was happening simultaneously. Then you know like this on this: her rent, stories unfolding. You know with oj and then, by the end of the day, no one gives a shit about any of that stuff, And in the world changes forever and in just all that stuff, with the no people off mikey no cost us, and yet it was-
it's the era's back in a time where some of these broadcasters had some humility around things anymore, we're sort of embarrassed in moments where they didn't know how to report something or whether they should or eat you know, but they were being pushed to to to follow the blood. And now it's all like that, but also this sort of strange you have these victories in sports and then you just even dealing with rangers hands. It's this way, and I like that about the boeing movie to justify this sort of dust, you're being lingering on on teenage fans, who were were just so it was only disturbing and in in devonshire billowy of it and how much they put in him. But it's like anybody else, but it shifts when you get to the eighties and suddenly they become these like they do. Yours, David said at one point in the eighties he looked out and was like. Are they here to see me or phil Collins will yeah? that we have that his fuck involve fits because, like you,
there would be no reason that at that time, where he wouldn't have been on stage with philco yeah to you get away like ITALY? ample pull that shit that you are filled out so true, but I like I do. I do. I see the in india even all the stuff around the adjacent, but I just thought that that was. yeah how they're all sort of different, because I've seen you know, I don't watch a shit, doctor I watch Adam Curtis. I watch his stuff because I think that we have. There is something that you guys taking chances in in different ways, but your ear out there in it. You The chaos yoga, out there on the edge of think we are making decisions that are, are your own and provocative in a way that dazzled been seen in the medium before I die. I think again I'll meet someone filmmaker. And when I did on montage about him at this, directorate said. Oh, you must have seen my film who is it
I don't! I don't want to cosette and I said why. Why would I have senior your film and they said well considered one of the great rock docks of all time a and I was I walk. That's where? Why would if I see something this may sound, really pinkish. Yet, if I've seen someone do something, then I can't do it sure so I rather not see her. So I because that to me being in joy and excitement frying took trying. The opinion. Fine you're find a different way and you know the wind can't it when we were cutting montage mac. I walked into the room, and and my editor was not I always think when someone says I always think of when Mick jagger got punch by early watts for calling him my drummer and
I walked any at his hands overs. He had a book in front of him any at his hands over on his head and I so what's wrong man, and he said, ah, he said man I'm reading about this chapter. Where Kurt You know I heard nirvana appear on the radio for the first time. I'm just show bum, we don't have the footage and I was like why and he was like, because just like the first time as a but we're we're not making that film like that, is the most cliched scene in nyc rock and roll history like. If we had that footage, I won't even use it. It's like whatsapp to do with the story, we're telling and then and then I said you know cabin that which we when we don't have, when we have footage for something it's slake depend sing, because we just yet others, not it is free to decide. This is what happened near, which The exciting is when you don't have the footage and you have to wait
figure out how to create that momentum that that experience in that to me as work and yeah- that's words its exciting. So I think that David were David became it. For me, the perfect subject was: I have been trying to go into the deep end gap with all my film yeah this one more so than any one I've done which really pushed me into into an area that, where I'm not comfortable, which is non, it's not a it's, not progress, narrative right, right, yeah, because you do do a lot of time travel but, but also you know you can sort of justify that. It's like you know to cut up turkmen. You know what, down that in again from a restarted, yes, is intending to wreak and struck the bow experience which is it near the enigma, the mystery thee into
the sublime and create an experience that presents that right and in the film is cut up and their influence there. There are references flying left and right and it's all performance you it doesn't strip away. the persona me out of it generated a bonfire valued. Why we labelling, I write by about you, but the thing that's beautiful about yoke as he permissions chaos. All the time had their this idea that, yes, we know that that its there and that too to deny it is crazy and also he mentions this idea about you all these different things that are happening in every moment around you, you just using you whatever your little reality is at that moment by these others have other stuff coming up, but ultimately you know why The bed or the this sort of through I'm whatever intellectual through I just virtual through lines there are, is that you the music And that you know you well, you know you run you
loops at times so there's never a quiet moment. There is always some piece of boeing Musica kind of moving through all of this, so no matter what the fuck happened or what the timeframe is It is the magic which is the fuckin music. It's a jew ox musical with rich sub tax, moldova, like a significant way put music, is fuckin magic and in india there is very few artists in. I was talking mothers, my producer, that, like as I get older, you know I will go. There are and said I will go back to the stones are one of them in the year that beetles doc and I'm not even that old, but that could not watching, those died and it didn't like you make the course. It made me cry freak out now making. Oh my god, this is crazy. They're, just dumb banned the who and you can explain the magic who the fuck and explain now, but that that is what that is what makes these guys you, no bigger than That makes them forever is, I don't feel this way, bob bob Seeger. You know
you're gonna like take a bunch of but we saw, as you know, you got pretty guaranteed magic. While that was so, the boeing numb started off the eyes. A series of fifteen films that was a project are critically I'm acts. Music, experience and the idea was that there would be the fifteen big heritage and contemporary artists of all time, and I would cry space and an eye max theatre for just that? just go, listen ye, see, experience and not learn I well. This can be an imax thing right. He had to it's a match, sir exclusive for the first week. Yeah, that's great, but but giving back to ikea other people's work, I mean I only bring a banker Adam Curtis, because you I watch his daughter yeah I've seen a lot of it, but there the other hyper normalization and end the century. A self and stuff is that you know He's barking up a different tree, but the risky
taking by your matching together stuff to have the audience you go. These journeys of thought that are much more disturbing this does not a celebration of life. you don't believe in adam Kurdistan with anything at an early hour so far that fucking over but you know there is yet the I just by just bring em up as another document. The artist you whose do you know exciting stuff. You ve never watched it out, I just know I have, I think, he's brown and his summer a far more intelligent than I am you're doing different things we're doing everything. I think I work more emotion. I think I am more kind of more member, I'm glad you! You know you've got to figure it out for yourself how you're different, because yeah that must have been a tough day for that I must say that that day must start with fuck god damn it,
you're back but I like it, you ve done great work in and you know, but I but I do on combating liking and in terms of people watching the other stuff too I could go find that you know. At the o, J one june seventeen. Ninety ninety four it because you can do is just right there on hulu and her cobain ones on on HBO may acts it's easy to watch, but, like you, You can definitely like. I can see you striving in that that kirk obeying one with some of that, the sure you do stuff out. I'd of the narrative, you know the visual stuff the music right water, here's what Montage was for me. I was about our generation. It was about the latch key kid generation. It was very specific, too
and- and hopefully this is my entry point and hopefully transcends beyond that kid- parents were married between sixty one and seventy, it's a rarity macro maya, the aids aber them the parent she got married because he wanted to fuck my parents you're my parents. They they want, it's actually had to get married when you're and then the sixties happened and suddenly they're seeing everyone else having fun and flying right and then they're like well. I want to do this too. It's like when Kurt's mom said. Is this it yeah? Is this all there is there's gotta be something more for me. I'm like lady. You got a fucking kid like that. The time to have arrived there has passed like when you The kid you eat you, you, you kind of have to move beyond that were there, but here but that's not unheard was generated was generation, sir, it was international, but is so that was my entry point and kurtz is he's with shame a word. I had a,
really serious speech impediment. I can speak into his father. when I was in terror beat. I was sixteen and my childhood really until it was probably my my teens, our kids, coming up to me on the skull ground going. Are you retarded? Maybe that was I I you have that was done to my face the egg and standing like looking for an act like not Malta is like it is it is hard to stay strong here it was while ye do what you need to do but arm. But there is some sense to you. I have some sure, no said what we all do and I think everyone will ya it bright and- and you know I like, I remembered seeing it the first time, but I didn't remember the whole movie until I watched it again, but I do remember the animated story of him. You're needing to get his first. your experience at the way in returning to the house of the mentally ill person, now d
you. Do you remember, did you see a recently? I just watch it most of it a monster we watch most of what would you do? What did you think that that was A store, a short fictional, store, a piece of art the cur created, or did you feel that he was telling not as a light to an inner? We were like. It was a true story. Oh I thought Like I didn't sense it. There was an interview or at the end of it, but I sense he was. You know telling a story about himself as there are details of it that are not fictional, that can't be really manufacture. what was interesting? That story become really controversial and it was it was there as a pilot. Bazaars barn on the melvin via melvins came out and blasted the film because of it and said all that story's bullshit. If it had happened, I would have known- and I was like. I remember being really confused because outside thought it was really obvious that that was a short fictional story.
He wrote a number courted because of his cadence na, not talking to someone he's using voice areas. He's reading, a story right and it's a piece of short fiction. So it's based on things. I have an idea of what it was based on. It's no different than a cobain song, it's you know so you're saying it's not a real story, I animated in part to make it very clear that it's not factual. In fact, there is a a little. I mean it's very subtle, but there's a part at the end of that story, where Kurt said I lay down on the railroad tracks, put two bricks: amin waited for the train to come right, as he saying that you don't see that you see Kurt sitting on the up the on the thing watching the trained by very deliberately here, too distance vibration. Why do you think it's a fictional story? I think like any coat, I dont think of it s
different than Cobain music. I think thou catalina it had truths. That's why it's it's fantastic in its filled with truths. Are they historical firstly, these things really happened. Did he sleep with that as he called retarded girls at a metaphor for something else right like it's, not it's not. I believe its it? You know, and I will do that story. What was really forcing was, he wrote it in his journal and any recorded yet and it recorded on a tape? He did with a lot of other poems india stories. Ok, thou wine! had a lot of what appeared to be biographical component, thea but there is some stop mix then there as well that weren't, naturally equally biographical shaw. at the beginning of montage pack, I said this film is, can be told using kurtz art out of his music, short stories bubble, also to me It was not enough
to be like anything, factual, it's it's better than factual its dude like a direct shot into his brain. One way its art. Ok that that the story montage was working a biography through a person autobiography and allow the artists art, to tell the story where I got trapped him at is I needed conch, and I didn't have them prospective through Kurt owner I needed to do in our views to help contractual eyes, Kurt space within the foam, we're ok, I get it I mean I wonder, though I mean what would have I give you didn't, do the interviews whoever has ever been and has rack you get to like you know. Where do you fit this this? The sweeter can to
Jane Goodall doc into added that become partisan. Ira did he say sad and guidance oh no said in a sense it like ie, no having talked to her you're. Having seeing now that this sort of youth in the end, this sort of earnestness in the excitement in an and then to talk to her in nation to it about what's happening now, the created step setting up. naturally o saw montage of hack. and someone hair fed. They called me up. And so I naturally nash, I'm sorry, national geographic, natural yoga got it. This is a sure of that so supposedly murdoch's when they still on national national geographic area, one Did you a rebranding at that? That pointed twenty fourteen? It did it become a pretty dodgy reality on scripted seriously I kind of lost their identity, a bet
and now the idea. So there is this sort of directive to go back and forth every brand this sort of adventure It's mars place, jaynes there're out through their iconic. Sorry, I think I might have asked him since then, but I got a call from agents and ass now sundered. Everyone is talking about jane, Goodall, yet eyes alike. I said I I don't know anything about science, I, haven't. I seen my film a million times. I have no interest here. I condemn the further and I was like this is fucking weird. Why would they call the guided montage hack here today? So I do a call with them and Ah, I will make just one person is that, like movie we did this trail. I did a very quick call and my agent calls me back. She doesn't wanna do another call. I said I don't wanna do another call unless he agreed to final cut and I don't wanna waste. Yeah and they agree to final cut How is she
hopefully insane if they're gonna brand their hall. If they want to use this to brand the network you're going to give me final cut, I just a montage of heck, like I said we weren't selling any t, shirts and but anyway they did, and what I was interested in and Jane was again. I all these things become very self reflective. I I spent most of my life trying to figure out how to create a balance between. work and bingham, but between my passion for what can my family the up? That's for jane was. Daddy? How do you? How do you find that balance and life- and you know particularly freshwater. She had no several families. To her family and then the monkeys, shit, yet yeah and while also women in tat time where was expected, that He would be the ones to stay home with canada and hugo would be the one go awry adventures we did it
I remember I was at a screening at the arclight for that film, and down and the moderator made a cow and about how much he hated jane when she dropped off am her son to go to school in england, and all these women in the audience were going to say and he didn't get it and he was like what what she's fucking that was fucked up laughter kid obvious sex here and I am like it like. Do you not say that about the dad? right right, yea, air, his like ya, gotta learn is a learning curve on this leah, the writ respecting and empathizing for women learning curve it. It's a steep one for deeds by june and was Jane was also like. That was an opportunity to real life. Very to me like footage we so yeah. It's all there, how my god it was so incredible, beautiful and and
yeah. That was that. So I almost said. No, I basically said now and then I finally cave and the davy sent me the hundred in whatever hours a raw footage I put it on. I walked out of my office. I left my system was. I can you believe by almost turned this down, as is like the greatest film, I have ever seen, we will never have an archive this pristine and died. I mean you're watching son is never gonna happen again. We can play chimps in wild. That's never happen. He had always like it's fucked up as wise and there's the obvious you're watching a light. We no better, now honey way. What you're giving them bananas like what he you yeah, but I mean it like Adam and eve in the genre, I mean it's it's insane, but great yeah, so that was exciting. That was really exciting. What's the next thing, you're gone, yes elvis movie, I never this that did you mean like best selling it like reality idea for this.
I don't know I dunno real yeah, take a break. No, no just serve I just finished another one recently, so I I get oh yeah and that or you read books will you do oh for fun yeah, I I I I I my favorite thing is just like looking at clouds do just that house outside we have, we have a house on the island and why area which one big island area, why peel valley our salaries friend there, much as humanly possible, so I cut bowie there and for for big chunk of it. I cut a lot of jane there MIA and- and I honestly that's where I I I unplug yeah, and It's where the trade wins mean we're on the north coast here, so that there is no greater spectacle, then watching the clouds kind of form above her head.
yeah I go. I used to go more. I can afford quiets armand a in the big. I am on how own You know, but I dont I'm, I can't live there. I mean, like you know, if I eleven days. Is it that's? What and told me that I was gonna get bored and I ve been a seven or eight ears, and but I think, on the big island, there's more to do like yo koi. Is it the I'd say you got a farmers market, you got two restaurants and then you hike here. we don't even have that I mean we're thirty minutes from a restaurant, so I just hope I stay here put yeah, but you like it. I love him. Alright, and you need bring that you have big family rights. I have a wife who is a huge fan of yours are no yeah yeah. She wanted to be on the I wanted to come see what she wanted to be outside. She would be a year via she's, very excited she filmmaker Rajiv, the filmmaker Deborah eisenstadt yeah yum, and we have three kids here.
There really are going. There are thirteen age. So it's like those present isolation. yeah? Well, there are other edo sort of they're on their phones like it. It doesn't really make sense for anyone that has a has that play for you, like you know what I mean, how do you adjust to that? I guess we all are but like when actually team, Just like I when I just I can't it's still a weird shit for me to just watch everybody just looking at that thing in their hand in its gotta remember: died, that's their language. Yes, there are norm and all where doing is being like our pair and looking at us going like what these crazy fucking kids. So I sadly most of us are going to tell me how to do it. I saw I went from fighting it. Thinking like this is just in a word out sink, you know. You're animals beautiful place on earlier and found like didn t the completely fucked up to just kind of That's how I see it
and you know the way my dad used to want to listen to the old term. Now I did like listening to the old time. Radio shows with my dad, but it was totally anachronistic at the time he was doing. He was like. Oh, let's sit in the living room and listen to the loan ranger and it was like decked, we watch television sure, but it it also not eight. I mean like easy, how the takes over your brain different than our guy, you know like What, if you sit in a living with your dad, was a music you not like, there's a million other things you could be doing in your head in the room, but once you fuckin lock into this thing, it's all of you all, I'm saying imagine I get is generations whom be saying to their kids because a whole, not only going to say sorry but dead the world is ending and authority. There's nothing anymore, sorry for all the the stranger smoking ruins everywhere, and yet we people used to be able to live western
utah. There can be great, maybe I'm being too cynical oh yeah. You had said earlier in a way that you had that did that the from had chain. Challenger understanding our impression about while he challenged in the sense that you know whatever my understanding was- and I remember this when he died as well. You know that, my experience of both we and its impact on me. What was if you know, were mythic and it was, it was shallow and away you're lucky. You know the fact that I I did. Woozy with him. in a post, let's dance, I didn't know a lot of that stuff. I've never been rio scene and the footage at you see, I didn't care anymore, but the how I held him in my heart. My mind was specific and and- and you know in awe and and and and whom he was part of me in a very specific way, so the change like I actually leaned into my girlfriend. I said that some
during the movie I said is, can make me hate him. If I keep watching. This can make me because of what you talk because of your ignore, urging that almost everything they presented there was painful vulnerability to an end and the risks that he took. Much the time exposed a an uncomfortable vulnerability there. I don't know that I noticed in the bow is that I had in my mind. Why would that make you hate him, not hate him ages? It wouldn't be. I was being facetious, but it would just humanize him to the point where I would have a hard time. You know keeping him more. I kept him but that happens with everybody. I talk to people, but there is. There is a point where you you know if it happened. When I made the movie about bowie when I had to go, do the research to say if they like he couldn't look. This ridiculous, not david abide, but was a time where he really he had mine for everybody and it was four click. The the
but the way you frame it is that, like there's an incredible vulnerability net, I'm like ok it's embarrassing, so I think what my thing is, might have a tremendous fear of embarrassment. As for my shame, is media, my at an embarrassing mother- and I- You know- and I do not have the way I overcome. It- is Putting myself became a comedian as Harry here says you do you do comedy to try to control why people laugh at you, so yet there there there's a vulnerability which makes me uncomfortable in uniting seeing that in bowie and seeing that he really was not. an ill defined personality as himself. In a way, all he was was a sort of risk. Taking artist you? May I think you just made me uncomfortable so I can appreciate it, I think what to do was made me realize that, like oh, If the vote but like when you, when you show those segments of him in the off. Madam, I call my god. I was always under the belief that this with some amazing,
effort enacting? If you look at those gruesome like this ridiculous, I would feel terrible. You have like I have a home and I'm like my gun. Okay, this is how much a drink, the cool it Deborah my wife and and see who is address on Broadway, I had them add shisha she saw this scene from the elephant. Maria and she goes. You gotta cut this and I- and I was so deep in. I was like what are you talking about his years? His act, the yadda yadda yadda, you gotta, cut the air, and I was I had no idea. I was like the vulnerability like what he is saying: it's it's lay its it's, not John Merrick had tat men it as it sees fit. And again this what we said earlier, not about being a virtuoso, so even if you think I don't think David's the greatest nice guy, just here's what if is why that moment, so on sparing again he's the biggest star in the world, doing
viewing village going on to do the elephant man, which is not really trying to do here and he's with no prosthetic and he has naked onstage and like and one things that I never got about bow entice. Are can this film is the how deliberate his choice in character worn in relation to his own sort of export. Like christmas, mister lawrence I'll? Never, what's up, I'm nothing of his brother. It so obvious yeah, I just didn't, know the really the story, the brother. Now I see the film I'm like. Oh it's about a that's, the the the the the character whose embarrassed by his brother and his like a united stand. Where I may show any, then we can see bowie act on a now. It's like do you, like you, got in very deep and you're willing to you know too, to see it in a very happy that way, and also in a very sort of like respectful way in terms of an artist taking chances
yo even failing, but thing is. Is that, like, ultimately, outside of the arc of his career, I don't know that anyone caesar things is failure, so they were always sorted presented as liking. This guy's doing it. So I thing for me to get back to the shift in, in my understanding of him as a boot. Just that little bit, it beat like. I always thought, like your volume, nail the isle of man anyway, you know you had this light to like one basing them I did not know it affects good talking. You, man, thanks mark as there you go, I was engaged. I didn't I've been engaging lately again. The movie moon, hd adrian, which is totally worth seeing, opens in theatres this friday September. Sixteen people and I am actually and, Continue this in a second. Can you hang out? Can you hang out hang out
this special story is presented by amazon and a cask creative folks. I want to talk to you about gift, giving like a man I someone a shirt, by some one pants by some one. You know a set of spoons. that would be an interesting give. That would be a memorable gift, but but ultimately, like. I don't use spoons marin, semi spoons. It was weird, but those are the marin spoons. They show people but they wouldn't use them. That's the point is I never know what to do people and the holidays only make it harder. It's a great season to spend time with family and friends. But if you like me, the anxiety of getting the wrong gift can be overwhelming. The ones gift give experiences stands out my mind as just being terrible. with my first serious girlfriend. I was in college and they must Sarah and shoes. pankey but kind of him, but came like a westchester jean grow up like that. No one grows up like that. So far,
Whatever reason I bought her a ralph lauren sweater, it was not a cheap sweater. It had to be a four hundred dollars, whatever it was just a a cable sweater, a heavy sweater like a irish sweater, didn't it didn't reek of being ralph Lauren. It was like a nice sweater. I liked it and I gave it to her and it was like she'd might as well have opened the box and there was like a dead rabbit in there. And it was one of those moments where she's like why, Would you get this for me? Do you No me at all. there's a lesson in all of this. Why you might not be able to find the absolute perfect gift? You can take a lot of stress out in the process of getting them, which is why using amazon makes sense for the holidays. The grating right away ordering things on amazon as gifts as well. You could just do it and then it goes there that you don't have to leave your house or wonder about packaging or anything else, and you can write a note with amazon news other than you. There are things you can do like when I order stuff off amazon. I don't. I don't write a note to myself ok man happy day by, but it's
is exciting. When I get boxes could actually never know. What's coming, that's me, so try, not distress out too much with the holidays. Coming up you ve got give shopping at your fingertips with amazon thank you for listening to this story, brought to you in partnership with amazon and a cask creative sh The legendary deals at amazon now back to the show. Okay, so look on thursday, We ve got bradley whitford back on the show you in episode nine one, nine back in twenty eighteen. After all, the success of get out, and you can go back and listen to that one before thursday, if you want ever then he's in saying he would love to come back on, so he did for nothing in particular, just a hash and it was it was we hashed it free? We definitely we definitely got into some shit.
And also here's a little heads up there will be new cap mugs available from Brian Jones. On thursday mention again at the beginning. There is they show, with those mugs, tend to sell out very quick. So if you want to get a head start, you can bookmarks age, Brian R, jones, dot com, so I shop and go there at noon, eastern thursday. In remember away you just you just it's gonna, be desert. Again, that's all just dm dig up everything that uses water- and you're out where you want year on year. state gauge to be in the future, just com, it's just work were gone back to the desert. It's it's gone, back to the way used to be we're going primitive people, so work, as I said to morrow night at Luna, lounge now, oh, my god, while at largo law go at the coronet here, no way with some music and comedy Hannah ein binder, will join us means
the veto in the brain, in short solo in ned, brower next week I mean tucson arizona at the rio theatre on september, sixteenth ex arizona at stand up live on September. Seventy bolder colorado at the ball the theatre on september- twenty second fort collins, colorado at the can centre on September. Twenty third enter I ontario at the queen Elizabeth II, on september, thirtieth and october. First then, I'm liver, more california at the bank had theatre on october, sixth, carmel by the sea, California, at the sun, it's an october. Some of that will be an intimate show just me, and therefore people that tat bought tickets, that I'll be in london, england at the booms, very theatre, saturday and Sunday october. Twenty second, twenty third, I believe if those shows are sold out- we may add a show. I may be doing alive, w e f there and I'll be dublin, ireland vicar street Wednesday october, twenty sixth, have gates in november and december in Oklahoma, city dallas, Antonio Houston,
eugene oregon, bend, oregon asheville, north carolina and natural tennessee, and my hbo taping Town hall in new york city is, on thursday december, a go to deputy pod dotcom swash tour for all your dates and ticket info. Now it's Play out.
Monkey and fond gettings everywhere,
Transcript generated on 2022-11-15.