« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1430 - David Mandel

2023-04-27 | 🔗
Both David Mandel and Marc were obsessed with the early years of Saturday Night Live, in large part because of a book they both had. It was the 1977 SNL Script Book and it actually set David on a path to become a writer for that very show. David tells Marc about his “wonderful and awful” time there, followed by genre-defining work on Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Veep and the new limited series White House Plumbers. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Like guy All right. Let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck nics what's happened? How's it going out there seriously how's it going what's happening today I tell you David Mandela he's a writer director and producer. He worked on visas, came the show runner in the final three seasons. He also worked on essential seinfeld, the simpsons carpio enthusiasm. He's the director and producer of the new, be a limited series, whitehouse plumbers, which I enjoyed because you I can add on just right up on a basis I kind of like anything. Woody harrelson does I don't know when that happened or how it happened, but death. He and just in thoreau, quite good But I do you realize it. I thought it was is a comedy to a degree sort shot like that.
Apparently gordon Liddy, gordon Liddy and and e howard hunt were kind of clowns. Real action. I really know that, but I I enjoyed the series and I'll talk to him in a minute, so so trying to say here is that I just I don't, I am always surprised by other people doing things the like. I don't quite have a sense of her. I know my wife is relatively small and coming in, and what's going out is is is, is, is finite, there's a context to it. I dont stay in touch the big picture unless it comes up on my news, feed in terms of peer doing things progress. I hear things but dared Pardon me. That's always surprised when people were doing things, because some part of my brain thinks that, because I don't hear of something going on that, it's just not happening it's sort of like the opposite of a
a foma, whatever the inverse of fear of missing out is. I have that and what would I have after that? A feeling? like: oh I had no idea. Anybody in the world was doing anything. Yeah other. Then you know what my direct experiences and I'm always pleasantly surprised that not everybody every day is just not functioning on some sort of pause mode, and but sadly as soon as I hear somebody doing something or something going on. I'm like gonna go right into foma. I'm just like how'd. I miss everything like apple, that sort of a stretch, but I used are watching, Ramy youssef show because I'm going to talk to him, eventually and also I had the same experience when I was watching dead ringers because I was going to talk to rachel vice- is that to eat you know both of these shows. Grammy shows been on for three seasons
I kind of new about him and I kind of a kind anew. The show was there, but not really so I watch is comedy. Special is pretty good night. I want you shone like this is fucking amazing and I'm overwhelmed with some sort of rule, if in gratitude that grey things are being made by diverse communities by ethnically diverse me like I didn't, I want a season and a half or so a wrong of roma Youssef show- and I, I like I'm a grown man, I'm fifty nine years old and I have no idea what the lives of muslim americans, are like or or, someone brought up by first generation, muslim americans or immigrants or or what being muslim any the casual sense was like yo, yo, sumer, religions or religion, but didn't know anything about the egyptian american experience and on some Why would I? But my first thought is we'll go
I mean: am I just old? Am I out of the loop? I mean how? How did I not know this? Well? Why would I know it? It was the same experience with them. with reservation dogs. You know like why new that show was away, the kind first of its kind of a native and owned and operated and created Joe, but This is a world of of life they is no sense in a different sense, you're dead brings is different in that you know it. It deals specifically with a a sort of spectrum, Women's issues around reproductive rights and treatment in a way so ike I have this weird thing: where am I? I had no idea any this was going on. It must be because I'm all, but also as brendan Forde, not to me it was more because a lot of people their life. Is they go to work and come home. They eat. No, they watch tv for a few hours. Many people watch three or four shows a week. If not more, I barely.
Watch television, I dont know what I'm doing. I guess I'm working. I guess about doing comedy. I guess I'm taking in movies but I dont really watch shows regularly that often- and I certain generally outside of succession yeah, I'm not on the pulse of what the cultures It seems like a lot of people are watching that an that's pretty great but the other shows are hitting me in a different way, where I'm like some It gives me hope. Somehow it's a weird thing and I'll probably talk about this again. You know when I talk to rami air h, assertive like It- gives me hope that these voices are out there in the face of what we are of dealing with as a country politically. I it makes me happy that that it's happening that these voices are being heard, that there's something about the nature of entertainment and their need for content streaming content that a good deal of money is being spent.
on on on content. Or shows or it series that are provocative pro save aggressive new, extreme and away- and I keep seeing them as some sort of poles. go reaction. Maybe they're, not you like everybody's can watch romeo. Everybody's gonna watch ground railroad, which is another example of this, but I think that given nature of the political situation more in that these are voices. I mean not going out into the streets or maybe I'm being maybe I'm just in some weird excitable old man. That's just Learning about something you know, we're in a world where, like them in montana, state house just voted to bar the states, we trends gender lawmaker from now floor. For the remainder of the wedding later season because they spoke out in defence of constituents and in defence of their rights
their status, and they were, down by the state government, being part of the stake, I'm abingdon tennessee. So this is what is happening. a sort of aggressive, shameless geo, pete in fascism. That has no no patients or or desire for democracy, and I have what about this before and I'm going to think about it again out loud. That once you remove tal since the national discourse or political discourse, there's no hope for democracy when you just have assholes doubling down on drawing lines and shutting another party out without debate without respect without tolerance, there's no there's an there. a future for democracy? So when I see shows I think represent. Voices that aren't generally heard or aren't you
You generally integrated into the entertainment, entertainment paradigm. I think some grand political statement? Don't even off its big enough, We there's other things that will guarantee the future d creasy, but in a lot of states, it is coming down. Abortion restrictions and bans in some sort of hope. I guess, on their part, to populate this with. Like minded people, maybe there better shot at enforcing fascism with people were born, unwanted on parent did properly poorly parentage. Angry may, they're just thinking of the long game of harness that anger to. Therefore, nickel means other ing any doesn't believe like them, so that some level, and maybe being to sort of
The man left the issue. I think that these voices, resoundingly political, even though it's just a limited series. This without a sponsored by better help you wanted, but the most consistent thing is what this show every episode, I'm learning something new. I learn about other people's lives. I learn about their jobs, about their cultures, but so learn about me because when you talk with people in depth that leads to self discovery, that's one of the keys to therapy and with better help? You can start on your journey of self discovery, no matter your circumstance, better help connect. With a licence therapist, you can take you on that journey itself. discovery from where ever you are for me, whether I'm seeing the therapist, are or talking with someone in this garage. I know I can stop beating myself up for a little while and just talk things through and from there I can figure out how to go easier on myself and below anxious all the time if you are thinking of, learning therapy give better help a tree it's entirely online, easy to schedule and affordable just fill out a brief
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and james who is an amateur doctor He said you asked me about my trot. My try glitter rides and when I told him that my try glycerin were fifty four years, I always shit. What are you worried about? Your healthy is fuck when I told him about my good cholesterol, seventy two years like oh, my god, but I was only preoccupied with the red one or two and the flag of my test results before doktor input. that I was on the bad path, but apparently according to the doktor everything's normal I guess there's a ratio to all this in that my total cholesterol of one. Eighty five is fine, if not good, because I me I'm still going to reach out to my my cardiologist to make. given my history of arterial plaque that I'm ok, so I guess this is all to say. I will be remaining a vague in
for the the undetermined few. Whatever that word is that you put there for the further determinant added a what the word see how's it going my brain so low, this show the white house plumbers, which, from Monday night may, first at nine p m on hbo and ITALY, streaming on h, b, o max is pretty great. I enjoyed it where new things, what some good and it was very clear, precise about the time period. It's it's a great show and David Lando. He's the director and producer of this of this new show, and I told you about writing comedy and other things. Life stuff, so this is me talking to David Mandela. Tired of dealing with blown out toe stitching on your mach two wedge work boots. It's about time you up rated to a wedge for this generation keen
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and then obviously, you guys crossed over sort of in the air, and I only ireland until two thousand force or not. I am wherein there when costs like ground, because there is that mobile, we're like sera, silverman and david yale were on the show, and I felt like I was a wound up. Some people were coming to the show the area. I don't think I could be wrong. I never went to an after party. Ok had I never went to the show, but I was If only around the milliner will you somewhere you big, ramona lounge started in the midnight? Ok, you never did stand up. No, never the clue Just I ever came lies I gave a I gave em I gave the humor oration at my college, graduation, and that was it for me, always at how many writer Where'd, you go after to city. Seventy of the stand really yeah the whole time holton. thanks to their lincoln towers, really So your new york, it yeah, I mean it's a middle class projects, the area or whatever your folks in my dad to this
day because he's one of the eyes the just he's gonna go to his office yelled the day they carry out he's nineteen thirty satellite elevator borgia exactly and he just office everyday items on saturdays to organise, like what for us and isolate on nothing, oghee calls and pilots are, he saw. I does taxes interests in a state- has clients that are an older than him I'll bet, but you know it's like what he does there is that one of those old offices- it's not because his all his old office, like eventually just sort of shut down, so he found some newer, younger people that, like like he and since then he's like the guy in the hip work. Yes dunno that hip but yeah. He is definitely the old guy that occasionally they come in and go like hey. We had a tax question and your mom was what she she was a teacher. She started as a public school teacher. I remember the old new york- oh yeah, yeah public school teacher in new york. Yeah. I mean we're talking
and I'm not making this up. The first, I think, was her first prince Did she ever way our, and I will promise with this guy eventually thing murdered his wife and went to prison, but he, day one of her getting there. He plain to her that the best method was you back a kid up against a locker basically, and then you flinch at them. but you don't touch them. Then they hit their own heads on the back of the locker yeah and that's how you get away with it. That was day one entitled to school discipline disciplining and how to that was his theory. in education and that guy ended up killing his wife. Yes, I believe so and yeah wow exactly yeah excellent story. Yeah we try, we try and new york to your show and you have siblings. Our younger sister yeah, so what so you just run around the city when you're a kid just run around was like Europe. Is it's amazing when they the time in new york where you grew up there. I parents are just why cause. I got my buddy sam's. A teacher of colombia he's got this new,
kid you knew your kids in there different than any other is so different. When I take my kids back- and I don't think about it out here, but when we go back to visit my folks and as I sat there still there, seventy of the west end like when I was my children, walk on the street, a bolivia Yeah uh, bolivia, jazz. If everyone's gonna move as if the trafficking and there were ever its it. It's a different species and I do without shearer and my wife laughs at me out here. We are
constantly like not that were on the piazza rife, but I'm constantly like it's like seeing something in moving to one side like like way ahead or like all of a sudden, my hands in my pocket, because I'm a little nervous like someone's coming near us or something like that, and she of course thinks it where's. She grew up and mean we're like basically right now, you could drive to her parents house here in the door is open, shows unlock the ngos can advise you just gotta worry about the one guy. Yes exactly, and they all know who he is so and so saw it. You know not be a better, but yeah I mean there's this there's when new york city is your backyard. You have a sensibility, I bodies and I and I was talking with one of them the other day we The girl, like you, know our friday There was always a movie involved or in different places in one way or another we'd end up at, like you know, bleecker bob's or something like that, but one of the things we used to love to do and it was so crazy and we were
what sort of sometimes trying to write stuff? We do know what we were doing. You know we would serve playing around with shit yeah, but we would go to the the high it on forty second crossing, the chrysler building, the one that the grand hyatt air we'd sit in the lobby and we'd sort of shoot the shit and play around with ideas, and then we would kind of mark the prostitutes. The high end prostitutes, basically the guy, would come down the elevator meet her and meet her in the lobby area. Take her up and then come down. Like an hour later, we headed out his jacket, and that was like a friday night in new york city before he could drink. Yes, this is I'm talking like we're. Sixteen were due that sounds accounting, the accounting process. To that, of course, that's what you'd be doing yeah? Why not you gotta be creative when you want to hang out that was the early comedy attempts? Yes, but we're close, I think in age kind of remember as I get older now I kind of remember like there was a menace to the lake
they should go to new jersey to visit. My grandmother from I grew up in new mexico by all my people, jersey, take the bus into what authority at fourteen years old and just the day in the city you anyway. It was more dangerous, then I can what I remember menacing, and I don't know you had this because of This was living there at the time which was as got older. I had my had these borders that that would disappear like when I was a little kid it was like. I was on seventy years like now past seventy second right. When it was eighty six, then ninety? Six jeff in it I honestly knit never went past. Ninety six, like my parents, didn't care what I did below ninety salaried, but it was like. Don't go about ninety six street, I unless you're going to colombia exactly, but if I was not going to colombia so yeah, exactly where I was like literally just do go above, and how is the area that was the as soon as slightly. I really race, yes in our actually of this. Yes, but I mean
it's nice up there now and it was nice up there, then in some place. Well now I have like friends from high school and one day they'll go. We just bought a place and I'm like, oh, where is it and they'll go like you know to one hundred and eighty seventh and my initial instinct. I go like wait. What and then I and then I go there and I go. Oh, my god. This is incredible or wherever they like, but that's what is that called up? They're, like spite and dial or the bronx kind of right in that area or the name of that area? Maybe they get a yeah, but it's nice up there. Yes, it is yeah, but it in, but child me or kiss me. It just seemed like the warriors are so that that's funny, but in the seventies it was it was. It felt the More danger, oh yeah and I was I mean I've been mugged more times than I care to kill. Oh yeah, we got mugged on the subway. You just got mugged our kid. Oh yeah cause. I went to school up in up in the bronx and went to school. I went to private school up in riverdale and
adele. Is that what I'm? Thinking of those out what you were thinking of? Ok, sorry, us over the archie comics, but not the real one, and we would I had a school bus, but if we finished early we could go home. You know we could take the subway The one basically was right right up the area and we, rode home and you know, got mug twice. You know when they took like what little money I had in my pocket. I drove a kid. Yes exactly and one other time had a buddy, and this was you mean like we're, not talking like nike air jordan may I took a sneakers, they took his jacket and just do shit like that and not yet, but we, but by the way that was we sort of normalizing short years. All new york the only place without trauma and right now I feel like I'm right of passage. My crazy father at some point had some kind of a baby gun pulled on him. Yeah like like on, like I think, like seventy eighty. I dislike us school park that was there there's a there's, a playground now,
it's a great, but he used to be like a troublesome spot. The maid pulled a be begun on him and he told us the story. where he just bases went. Get that out of my way, and just pushed it to the side and kept going they just let him be because it wasn't worth it and that that's that's the new york that doesn't exist anymore, but I that's us yeah yeah, it's very funny. There are still like it is interesting. I go back there, but there are still true new yorkers around I dunno. If they live in the city anymore or what, but apparently your folkestone or their generation of people are still around and there are people in that building. You know because it's you know non evict, yeah yeah yes, they are on control and our daily lives. Now it's like it's it's become condo. My folks are still lecture entering and it's like that, so many waiting their value they get every month like the owners and them a letter off. I am more money I leave, but it's like one. Where are they going here then,
there's nowhere else in new york. They could go. I love them, but I don't want coming out here, you're. So it's like you know whatever end, it is what it is they have. They have a three bedroom apart me yet andy parking. yeah for less. then I hundred bucks yeah, I would say it's like crazy yeah, like less than anybody's paying for surfing, yeah, yeah, yeah, so nice that they have those laws to protect. Yes, so Wendy When do you start? Were you aware of esa? Now when it started yeah I mean not only when I, when it started started, I have seen I have those vague memories of like you know, blue she doing the samurai and re off like yeah. What I do remember some very, very weird sideways in my elementary We used to have these like book, fair ia and in
like seventy six or seventy seven, they published the snl script book yeah. I remember that with franco and franco on the cover. I have that and I I bought that book at the book fair and that that was when I started I became I didn't, I'm not even sure I one hundred percent knew what I by when you saw what scripts look like yes saw. What scripts looked like saw, more importantly than that than the head. written notes on the air and the cross algae, and I definitely I wanna be really sorry this sense. So I won't be clear about this. I don't think I was ever thinking like I'm gonna, be a right sure. Nothing like that, but I was fastening by entertain comedy and process. So yeah me. I definitely idea we had the same experience with their book. I mean I've. I still have my I have my copied sitting in my parents, bookshelf in my old room, that by the way, looks like I die,
in a boating accident in ordinary people. It's like a shrine to me yeah, it looks like I died and it's a shrine yeah god forbid. It becomes that but yeah. No, I I that's interesting that they it's a pristine environment, the old room, one hundred Did you shit? I got. Most of the ship it when you open the closets and stuff it's their shared by our stuff on the walls. Yeah bookshelf yet looks like my rhetoric area, it's like when our bergson that movie mother, yes money when he goes you're gets all his stuff out of the closet out the back of it back here. I don't have to put it back. You know that movie on paper was tremendous. I bet there are seen in. The ice through that grocery seen early on where therein loomed keep bumping into the her friends and whatever their there are moments in there, but yeah thought the moment of discovery that she had enough because that's it using moment for for any kid to realise that there
parents had a life before them, how do I may be things and didn't change their paths and studying or disappoint? Yes, I thought that was a kind of part of that movie. I think I am is he is, I think he might have been too old for that part of that's interesting. I never thought about that. she was great. She was always like it at all ease him. Yet I any yet you know was written for him and by him, but I dont know if he wasn't too old for that one. I wonder this is gonna sound strange is obviously he's always him right has always him but like that was one where a little bit of him, the usual stick about his cars in all of re dry right, whatever almost every society. Got in the way of the really interesting premise: yeah. He was supposed to be a sci fi writer yeah right and he it never quite right because he can't get out of his shtick right, but when the stick works and all the other turns imo yeah no, I agree, but nobody wake think of that movie, but
getting back to our own, notably does matter given back to that that book. I'm trying to remember now why I was so fast anyway, because I was a huge fan of the show when I was a kid and there was something any sort of way in well. There's two things: one was the lateness of it and, and my parents were the guy keepers in a widely let the occasional. Let me see it, but not all the time right. So it was a school night. It was ass, it wasn't a school, my moral heavily, fifty eight. No I'm I'm aware on for joy. No, fifty two going on three. I look like how did I have on fifth about it before you were really? Yes, I was really young so's. You knows very forbidden fruit and also very like special account just like, I remember, being at a friend However, the way and of my parents were like you re you're allowed watch it so for those like I, that sort of belushi cast, it was here and there but I is also like, oh my god, what is this year and then my
true first cast was really like. You know, eddie murphy, where I watched every week right, I mean where I week in week out your higher wags. Actually, so even late little late elementary school. Could he was what eighty two? Yes, I do well yeah I mean I just. I remember that it was that those that original castles total obsession of mine in that book likes in that there was a whole other world behind. It was, I think, that's what it is. If you really realise that when you're a kid, and then when you realise it. Oh, it's like Furthermore, I wasn't thinking about being shredder brass ring and suffering, but I just I have no idea. I was gonna, be a lawyer. Reacting to seamen have yet aggrawatin eggs. I ever less. I guess you know my I'm to this day the great disappointment with my. Sounds like a tyrannical money like they dont understand anything I'll, tell you to face its there. Their sense of status is interfering with the. the reality that you're making a living it but
in the living they don't and, like I remember, being at snl and under contract yeah, and I think my first year went well or second year wilma I dunno whatever it was, and I was my agent was like we're going to renegotiate and I tried to sit him father renegotiate contract, for he was like. I don't understand. You have a contract. And just like I and I know, but up we were shooting in new york on veep or were shooting like basically two weeks and my mom came to the set yeah first time, and It was a scene like a front door. Selina went in with you know, Julia, went in with tony hale. He had ever and we did it like. You know like a normal thing. We did it. No six times and as we did it, you know. As always, I was making changes here. What you know deal I too time her aid. Some changes. We change Timing changed the line you kind of get locked in. It was good whatever, whatever my mother I'll, send down was just like. I had no idea you did that
times and you make changes and by the way this was like six years ago. I had already been doing it for a very long time. Well, how would they now yeah, I'm in here come to like us are now right. My mother was a huge out. Baldwin fans always came whenever he had loved and I guess what I was I was. The key was the good I always had a job. I know that town syria, but I ain't so I never was a comedy writer going. Hey mom and dad I'm working on scripts and they are hoping to move to allay and whatever I graduate from college, with a job that job to esa. Now, as an l led the seinfeld, I was never in those early years unemployed, so even is confused as they were. They never had emanating from money, never ask him for money and never complete, and there was nothing they complain about, because it was just here's another job right, but that they stop and sometimes when they don't know the show you're working on. I mean you
work on big shows, they knew the shows the show that's good yeah I mean MIKE, and I had like a. I had great grandparents at the time who are now like long gone yorkers. Yet new york Gee. I seventy second and I echo park west next to the next to that quota and their hike on John lennon, sassiety babying guenaud shale gas right. Where was Just a lot of noise that was just a very nice just not really so, but you know they wore their sign fell hats with, like a badge of honor, to tell anyone in everyone there there their grandson was working on additives, seinfeld yeah. So how did you like? Where did you go to school? that you ve got a job right at a school. Ok here we go a harvard harvard lampoon. Where are you from? with my let's say I am familiar with your work in a show in whatever so go for it. What now I know you got an, I got nothing I mean you know it, but there is
sort of element of. I don't it's not it's. I they wouldn't be it there is an element of the air stock, receive yes in the nature of the brother. spitzer or fraternal orders of comedy that include women, whereas you know people from harvard move through that system, you'll call people from that's us. When they get out of school and those people, you know say yet, come work here. I don't look. I never called anybody, but obviously there are advantages to it. I don't know what else to say. No, I mean I gotta go. the process for you, the press, for me, which was sort of different was, but again there are certainly advantages. Was here. Look I was by the time I got a call. I didn't know, I didn't know what the harvard lampoon was. But at that point I was very comedy obsess. I knew what the national lampoon was, but hadn't put it
at their idea so why they didn't understand so europe session with comedy, started and junior high exactly so that we can set at essen l that first script book leading to the hill and wine guard backstage history area alive, which I devoured and memorize. Yes, and then my mom's old kommeni albums. You know so I haven't von meter. First family, that's a great one! No, no, not hers, but someone- and you know turn me on and in again getting junior high handed me like a woody allen. Stand accommodate tape is re incredible that yet stay right: the output, mister Allen I wouldn't drink vodka- I wouldn't drink it or whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So I was, you know very upset that, like I said my mom had these comedy items, she was a fan and she loved movies and tv ass if she was the one that would take me to like there was that revival, theatre
sixty eight and broadway near that, unlike just she was one, was taken me too, like hitchcock revival, riled air, and yet so I was just in, Two movies television again that that the the the existence revival, houses, is really gone completely gone, I mean. Obviously we have a couple of theatres here. This is not the same way the same is like you know. Why mean tarantino places doing in a relatively a new double feature every night. Yes, but you, the its curated, threw him so you're gonna get that like yeah sears, where it just u every week, every day we differ movies and there was something fastening in china. This is such an odd thing. It's obviously you won't turn Tito's theatre to have success of it. He keeps it open right, but there was something to be said for the fact that when you went to those new york theatres, there always empty or only
like any able you're right, we do not only data which is not a great business bright, but we re seem like a great because it has, and I went to see the end was the other night at guaranteeing a theater and pack awhile and there's a lot of people. They ve never seen it before so there are. These fresh allows that I love thou its grim. It's such a funny, fuckin movie, oh yeah, now is it now? Can they Do that again, or is it just because I have some deep nostalgia for those particular actors, yeah, I mean you're, a guy that generates all this comedy and generate good comedy. But like you watch falk and and arkin together and it's a riddick was comedy by you know it's deeply honey and there's. Some part me goes like data make em like that, and they don't they don't. What is it that they don't do? I dont think their interests, which are not even interested. I mean they're like two like older guys, like they're, not even interest, I feel like that they like, even if they made a comedy you're, not interested in
guys in their forty always try to do it. Like the re make that kind of room did erode, they ruined it, and it's weird thing, because that movie the original one there are parts of it you just like all the right opportunity. I mean rod like TT flies in the general that here they don't know you're on purpose, but the general is very big yasser that whole thing when it larry yeah in it. That does not cause of libertine yeah, but I mean you angry acts, of course by but that's a testament to that performer but I'm almost saying like I feel like. If you try to put that in a script, they would stop. You like just the the tonal now that it's a full tunnel, but it did all of a sudden. There was some of that in your movie in the dictator we tried it again and I am not sure that I didn't land the way they have that land is the progress. There is something, but it is certainly very specific brought liberties craziness, you know We think there is an overtake kindness to the velvet paintings. I mean come on dude,
and the way archivist forced to constantly be complementing. It is just so therefore chosen lag the new flag. Do craig was very striking guys still very there's another twenty there's another ten million. for whatever reason, I'm always obsessed with Billy being the two pilots, the two chinese possess aid have been huge. If we are to hang junk, I shall ever gotten back to the mainland. Yes, it's like that kind of thing, and even a who wrote that I really don't know it's a halo directed. It is not an early and Bergmann designate. I, why said is yeah yeah but tab. Back to the revival- has so your grandmother's taking you my mom stay a monarch, yes, and so that it's all of that. It's esta now and in the biggie also its letterman I don't have a baby. I don't have a bedtime here, and so I'm watching the twelve thirty show. I'm I'm one Carson and I hate to say often not watching carcere, I'm watching the odd couple and I'm
king, the honeymooners we sometimes mirage instead of carson and then I'm putting on letter right and thus it is early, our great just obsessed with it on a level I ve no right for tickets in all evacuate out. I went twice and I don't remember these- two having you know they do the bumpers, some wait or another, they made these like late night, David letterman, like kind of collegiate, looking jackets like that yeah. I remember that was my like when I was a kid I was like. I want one of those jackets like that. Not I want to work there just sure I just that I was like my obsession was yeah and I get one of the jackets never got it. You never got a jacket, so you're, taking all that shit in oh yeah, seen the old movie, but this is the kind of thing that was available to us. It was there and it wasn't, I mean, look. I guess it's available on the system. If there's something we are being brought or something that I have the experience when when when when when there was only three networks- and you were in on something- you know you
like you know a gun, you know there's neither banana again with letterman. It was a choice to use. Up late. I mean my my school bus peer me up at seven thirty. I am so I'm going to sleep at one thirty, because I'm staying up for letterman yet, but I he got into it in you would run here. You'd know like oh, my god bell, Murray's coming on and he's going to new s, exciting yeah. Exactly and all a lot of those comics that I don't even remember all their names, but those guys that you know letterman love that he wouldn't have like Larry miller, J early on oh yeah, exactly negotiate Luis panel. Then again I always got into stand. I'm gary mule or do stand up, but I got I was into it so, like I saw richard lewis and carnegie hall like I, I was a er. You went down there. Oh yeah, I was a paying customer. How are the hosts? Would you go with your mom? No went with them. I my buddy. When was this when you're in eighty eight eighty seven something like I like yeah so end of high school. How is the incredible it's like a he. I think, because you know
later on yeah. I got to tell him. You know I saw year and I think thinks it is one of his truly. I think he considers it one of his. There is important enough for him to be the lowest carnegie hall. Obviously I also, I think he knows how good he was, that no gerda, because I doubt can blow at a kind of usually and why bomb that news in a tighter gotcha, So it's a year on year, you're obsessed with calm, someone says we're comedy I get to harbour you just take me back. I get to harvard and all I like literally freshmen. Unlike there's this harvard lampoon thing while you knew the history of a little bit, not really no over. You know like what I knew, which is like that
national anthem, but the guys were their most. I know I'm sure. I fully knew that. I think I almost learned that when I got there are two and two together I knew there was national ample and then I went. Oh I see. There's this guy Doug canyon arrived the doug canny near then I put it together and so instantly. I'm kinda guy, not a high gotta, get yeah exactly so I gotta get into. I want to be in that thing, building or not we're not talking about. I want to be a comedy writer because I'm going to be a doctor was a club, it's no part club part magazine. I was definitely as they say more on the magazine. Side. Yeah, the clubs here you know it's a strange building, that's filled with sort of you know but like me, that are somewhat on the spectrum radiometer and then there are people there that are therefore the club party. I mean I gave me a honorary whatever hookah by like I don't drink right and adjust these kids euro. I got you now. I'm gonna go through these rituals and it felt like I felt because I
I played along, but I don't know that I was like what kids do like they, like all of a sudden. The age difference becomes a big thing. It's like, oh, my god. If you have children, so I see your writing so I go there. I get in I'm I'm in it by the way it takes me a little to get in. I don't get in, but it's not like. I did it. Would you have to you submit like basically that pieces of writing, and then you get to the second round and another three pieces and inert me a couple, I used figuring, should be honest right and I can. I still have all my stuff. I can. I know my bad stuff and I know my good see I got better I got in and that's in then that became my. college, like I didn't, go to court a stop going to class. Yes, as I was just there. I was writing much as I can see. More between my junior and senior year, the lamp wounded, a project with comedy central called mtv. Give me back my life. He had a fake tenth anniversary doc
memory and a bunch of mtv of mtv on comedy central. They promised us mtv gonna cooperate with and they did not yet nothing zero sort of in the same family by building viacom, Emily synergy. Just zero, now really nothing yeah. So we wrote it and then I went down to new york with it and kind of shepherds thea production with two other guys Jeff jfk frenetic burg later on became my writing partners and we, I went down and we were beyond hooked. I mean it was like This is what I want to do with your life and then I go back for senior year, which was really weird is I was already got? U ash obey were done, they were seniors, they had graduate, they basically can't they moved to allay, and I had to go back to call you met all these guys at you work with now I mean I don't
don't currently work together, but we work killed for many years. But, yes, we met a lot of guys. We met at the limits, wait out whether your shepherded in by right, older members, are you just meet each other S and also You know you gotta be fairly bright to get into harvard, so I mean they're a band, but I think that Having my criticism wasn't eventually outside of the kind of connectivity of of the people who went there with the people who were in there is they there's an ambition that is taught at that I don't know if it was as much. I think back your day, it was assumed that if you we're in harvard that you would do it you needed to do, but I it seems now It definitely is fusing people with a type ambition. I'll go one step further and again I mean I start to somebody. I man, like my dear look when I was there, I think you know look. I think
the magazine itself talk about the actual thing that I was supposed to be do or you just enter as conan with the he's before me. So and at that point he's like, I don't even think he's it up. When he's it s, analysis, simpsons, hasn't started right, but when the simpsons does start that became everyone's gul simpsons was like that algeria during yeah. but I must say, was like two things. One was, I look at the magazine. Now they put out still put the magazine out and its when I look edit. I see lots of I always laughing. I teach them about. I could can talk to the kids real time and I say to them: it's all share dialogue pieces, because they're they're trying to rights Perhaps even in the magazine we say, stop doing that a magazine, parity things books. You know I mean I know this is sound silly, but My when I
into the lamp and yeah my pieces. I did a tom clancy parity again right, I'm not I'm not sitting you're going. It was incredible to simply think I did it already of a book at the time as he owes to like. Basically trying rights guidelines because I wasn't thinking about. I wasn't there now, I'm going to get in there and get a job. I definitely think yeah. They do think like that yeah yeah, what I will say if I may, in defense of the organization for one second yeah, it is being in a writer's room before you're ever in a writer's room, coming out of that place. Having had the shady ideas beaten out of you and encouraging you sometimes in a bad way, is a definite brings out the owl, commodore in you, but the encouraging you too and again a bit of a cliche too that the idea that thinking out
the idea that someone else isn't going to think about dear when you, then you get into the real world here. You are steps ahead and that's the difference. It's not a collaborative and getting used to collaborate, but also them go ones to fire. Getting to having people like jumper, your staff and learning to take criticism where I I've been on. So many shows where young writers have never been criticized because they were the funny the kid they were, the funniest this and now you're hired and no one ever told them. This is garbage and what happens when you do that? Well, some of them shatter and never work again, and some of them learn yeah. But it's a it's a weird combination, yeah, two of them buckle delete they buckle and leave yeah. On the first show, when I worked at seinfeld yeah, I got hired along with two other guys and one guy. It was his first gear. It was his first job and it not because
The the criticism thing it just. It was his first job and it didn't go well and he was let go and then he figured it all out and he's gone onto an incredibly great career. He is hilarious, but problem was in his writing. The problem at the time was just sort of like he'd know been around, like other comedy people, and started with the exact it was like. I was a life experience and the like. I said that with that. When I look back now. That is what I think of as what the lampoons actual advantage childcare is like having a job here. Even though I wasn't technically it's it's like you know one another college ball, yet another area not make sense, so you get it school and you got ass snl. I get school. I go back to carmody central that summer. We do our franklin
posts indecision. Ninety two here which is common to the democratic and I had met him the summer before on the he was- and he was a what's the word. He was a consultant, and so I had met him during the mtv video and then hired me on hand. Billy Kimball hire me on four indecision, nine rio. I now is again all those coming central people, mary salter, and I know you be a new some of those yokes and he sophronia hilarious that's. Where is that, where you enter politics, yeah I mean the get your kid you know, but you know we had one. We are one and marty I may not, where I start to get into the nitty gritty of of writing political hue of writing political humor and also by the way, sometimes is simple, is just by. actually reading through. You know like, for example, like what people are saying in and actually finding the humour in what they actually said. We cannot even
not even really nicely crafting a joke unto itself but you're. Actually, you start reading. yeah yeah yeah accurate data at sniffing out. The simple thing: yes, like: isn't that? Don't those too fight each other, I mean that's. It was funny when he was shining like when he was on the judiciary can vary as always laughing. Videos like this is like his old sort of scared up. Yet if it wasn't, but so funny always funny yeah, he basically took me to esa and you know I I look. I was writer, but I learned to write with and from, the island. We wrote some stuff that I've indecision yes on indecision, but it was when I really got tests, and that was the second go. It s an hour, he had been there. He again, I don't know what I'm you know. He'd been there to like nineteen eighty, when you just lorn left the fierce romania and then he'd come back and eighty five ok- and this was now ninety two and he there that oh yeah, he was the second time around. He was there forever, but not the head writer. You know
was no head writer that point Jim downy was sort of thee. I guess producer head ryanair and I was there for three years. Ninety two too narrowly that cast when I got ere the main casio still Dana Phil, oh kevin, neil in those guy and then one by one they started leaving. At that point it was sort of the rise of sandler, Farley, sprite and schneider right, so I was sort of there and that the lex tire yeah so early on in ninety to fill doing, like Clinton, yeah Dana was doing ros perot and yeah and by the end those guys laughed and are we had treated in our member. We had trouble, we didn't like. We didn't, have a Clinton we do. I didn't have arrow of the earl doing knows before darrow. Oh, we, you know like that. We at some point I am a key and ended up doing clint out right when that, during that one year he was there- and this was when the the
ass ballooned up till I twenty video and he added like men, lithuania lorn still there here, like Mckenna, marquis in Geneva. Chris elliot hop of everybody. Was there we sort of a nightmare had for me so He gave a towel g more media big norm. It was a huge yeah, like twenty twenty people make ass an end. So what was experience like wonderful, an awful near I mean has anyone ever is anything different. I mean it's the like and the worst fucking job and I don't think most people cop to it being the worst. Ok we're most because you're on camera be were very diplomatic about the the family loved every second of it, but first year I walked around in fear. I am, I know. I've said this year. To him. I would like to learn to learn it's like the first year. I was there my initial deal. You know you're there, like on a thirteen week deal yeah. He did not speak to me
during admit. He spoke to me one during those first thirteen weeks where he said something to me like. Are you having at the time he said it in a weird way, like I did say everything a weird guess a little bit, but he said it to me like I felt like. Oh am I, I like, I just felt like I'm, I'm I'm fucking up there. It is awful and I don't know where I lean years. You know and I ve got you know he was your age in his tone any through a wrench into the jewish brain yeah a jet, and it's all I think about It- has kept me up. I got up and down and at the end that season. At the end that the final party he said so next year and I went- and I like unclenched- may I I felt like I was there yeah, but you know it was. It was miserable. It was long. The hours were crazy. We were being there through you nights a week, and there was a
the politics. I know you'd kill yourself, Yemen wouldn't be there, but they were working on a movie forlorn and they would pop in india, and I get a lot of scott work and I was happy to do or gonna work like this scott work like like, like you know, the crap, like I didn't stuff. No one wants to duty. I was writing model. Jerry after week after week. One wants to do that. Why cause you're you're up there with people that often I'm not talking about like. I was writing it for stand up saying. I know it's. Like short, no coal, kidman, india, freaked out about doing comedy and convincing her she's. come running in and do the rest, business tom cruise opening out? I mean like shit like that. Where there's no- there's, not a great upside to assure very there's, like four monologues does not count stand up. Let's not count lighter chapelle going on in doing one that I can tell you right now. That was that was rare. When I was but I'm cities in the history of monologue here, logs there's like tour.
That may be a die. Hard fan, like remembers as sure, he's our great right most of the time. It's just nuff, you know I mean, and it's not you just lying at work and you want to give them in human eyes them right, make them comfortable and ways. It is as much for the host to get them. You till your audience and let them make the connection as it is for the audience dry, the other way and alive of vat yes and get them into it and excited, but its very rare one thinks the monologue was so where a chair by tat, so You are therefore three year three years, which I owe you know it's like s, an old dog years. I'm unites where I went start going gray, basically and by the end of it going to those after party ass. I was going to the after afterpart yeah. I was very aware that I was drinking? I mean I'm, not not. We weren't we're not talking about like like a problem right, but it felt, like I remember being aware like why,
I'm going to a party and drinking as someone who didn't even drink wondering in high school I got to college was never a big drinker area and yet all of a sudden now I'm like this is not good. is there no to me like you, you are aware of the euro zone. We hang out some real. Play some wonderful degenerated. You know we were playing like black jack at some weird after after hours, blackjack club near blooming day ass with nor mcdonald, but like was fun yeah, but you know I mean sure you realize like this. This might shorten my life and let me go one and then would go home, get home like five in the morning, but you know I get no no merit, and actually this is very embarrassing. I actually still living. I was living in the homestead living of my phone, so I get home at five, a m. It was like
it was like a weird like Billy wilder comedy where we shared an apartment and never saw each other. You know what I mean because, like I'd come home at five, am I'd go to sleep by the time I woke up, they were gone and then I would let get up a day going and leave before they ever would get hurt. Wages like I have, but I had to know that borders because it was I get home it. Like five am I put of I taped show every saturday and I would before I went to Add the other five in the morning. I would watch the apis and unforced. We, especially in that last season, they stay. They weren't great. weren't good. I dunno what to say they just weren't good, and that was depressing especially was depressing when we, it leaves the show thinking it was good, be adds deceptive. With you live out here, you're, my out, you know yeah, there wasn't good and I knew it wasn't great and it was tat. It was that socked feeling tat, fucking, sonya and I know it was making me crazy. I don't know what else to say and at the time they were, you know, beginning to
me things. You know I was getting like I produced special. You know little things that they like what I did like you got. I gotta be the producer, I'm like a mother's day special, so My my what's the word I'm looking for my role was being recognized, but I was not happy I, then I learned a tremendous amount. I mean I got to learn from AL and from Jim down yet, and I mean ten also for writing for people. Yes, absolutely and go. The other thing This and other people talk about you are like. The many producer director show runner of your sketch when I want to call her so coming out of us now, I'm going to allay the work on sick homes I knew how to talk you director. I need to talk to an actor. I knew how to edit. I learned all these things it s now that the average where they call em like baby right awry. Staff. Writer right has no idea right away. You might work on a show for five years, and never go in the edit room right, but I was
I was doing my own added to the area in the mornin right. You know soldier yeah. It was just like so I would change a goddamn thing about it, but I was deaf. Not happy by the end of the year that's interesting, that you know that coming out a stand up and then- and I ve talked about this before they- that your experience you'll gave you this full spectrum of work experience. And also like people who come at a sketch. Weren't had a right and collaborate indirect. You that's another thing as you almost can't not pick it up here, yeah so what you just come now I did the first time you eat your parents. House is after three years it s an it is, but you know I'll. But again you know why my parents never had an airbus breakdown. Basically, I was putting together our backing. Little bit? I was coming out l a on the brakes. You know the snl would be delayed to shows and have two weeks off yet so I was coming out to l a yeah and I was hanging out at the seinfeld offices because,
you knew, who schaefer burg, who I had mentioned earlier: there now writers at society and for the seas. In six out of nine. Okay, so Larry still there yeah, so I'm going I'm staying at their place and I'm basically going to work with them every morning because by the way to hang around while so I don't drive here, I'm a real new yorker, I'm the new I drive natural drive, now a drive. Now I saw that I really do drive, but I did not get my driver's license till now define around me yeah yeah yeah. I used to have a non drivers idea in yorkshire, Nogueira reside or in a passport which was really really impressive, so ice just come out. I go to work with them and I would have bread. To launch with all the seinfeld folks, and I was like the special guess: nobody, there had worked it s an hour. I've been around us at some point, so I would tell him you
stories about foreigners dove around do their impressions slab oliver, the club or not another, not olympian, clara different club brown cloth. And lampoon a couple of, but it was funny Larry had no idea, which is a funny thing about he had gambling. ass were there and he had no idea that they were the lamp and and share from bergamo would get no idea about that eyes. Yeah area and we hired me He knew I knew them, but he didn't so. You know that it was like the other what was the wire hire? You well, honestly. I think I was a yankee fan from new york and seemed like pretty like You seem like a lot. He liked me because the honest answer, I think this is Keeping to tell a so I was putting idea together, because there was this moment actually were. Larry was not even and come back to the sharia. There was a moment where he was renegotiate size king on ideas and then final show of that. Ninety five season. He came to new york and he
said to me send me some ideas. I reese in I resign. I'm gonna go back to the show, send me some ideas and he was going off to europe and then about two weeks later. He came back from Europe and he called and he goes. I want to hire you and I I send you any ideas, yet he goes it's ok and then I mean now tell ay, and I got out here and I was putting together my pitch for you. first, whatever whatever. I can't remember what I pitched the story. I pitched him something that was all and I said, blah blah blah and he goes was that on your list and I went yeah and he goes. I would hardly any after it yeah I had already been workin for about a month or so, but you gotta bunch historic credit, script credits, oh yeah! No, I mean what I was there. I was here as they are and I was what you are doing the same. Yea. I when I, but you know it's fun when did very leave after here they are for my first full year. Ok,
after several ok and then we did eight and nine without larrea, which I think eight really good year. Nine is a little more hit and miss yeah yeah. It was time it was time to end and then and then now your relationship with last year and in that kind of take you to the next place it? Doesn't it doesn't mean it certainly doesn't this because he know, let's put you know what like frank and down you're here, I like early right right. Larry teach me how to write a sick no other waiting of saying me how to outline the ideology and I am outlining to this day the same way. He taught me to do it, which is how well the first thing that, and which I have never forgotten, whereas I had an act one on the order, so you get four stories approved to get your. You know you, you jerry, you get for individual story once you have them approved for approved you. U, I put my act one and he came in and he took my act one and you just
and it turned it into two scenes like just step them. garbage can and shoved all day, and it was there, but just me down india, whose yes, sir now imagine, if you think about what, when my all of a sudden, what I thought my act break as is basically the end of scene, two and whatever I thought I was heading towards as an end of a show, is barely even the end of act, one which just did two things. One every scene advances the if the scenes or if the show the scenes are not advancing the plot. It's not a scene. You have to move stuff in so plot is always advance it number one won in the number to buy forcing what I thought the ending. Why into like? The middle you're, just forced to x, law, these other area that you perhaps would not have initially thought to explore
especially when you look at a regular sitcom right where you know their arguing about. I don't know that taken out the trash for, like you, know, thirty men, nobody ever area so that was wary style, those Larry those Larry and in and how he ran. The show, which is very much because he'd never worked to sit had ever been in a year. I ever There was no writers room Individual writers got credit for the script that they wrote and pitch the ideas for none of that you pay the idea, but it's his turn right it, oh yeah. None of that non studied still group think on the flashing out on the board, not even that much of the house will usually if they were issues wearing jerry, would call us in and say hey. This is working. We will get a split some scenes up, every one right, a scene or whatever today, some of that year, what there was none of that sitting in a room we would have conversations about. I'd always bear. I ever that that
writer's assistant, writing b, know that none of that group outlier. Whatever another changed when Larry laugh, there was definitely it became a who came in nobody. We basically we all sort of just rose up a little here, and so what would happen was jerry. We kind of have like two or three and the rider almost doing like many room right, sir, I do not the crazy giant like sit com, shitty room here, which I, to this day I dont care, frightened, look rooms, regret four punching stuff up. You can make something fire with a big group of really fry ip bright, but the notion of writing from scratch in a group room, which is how a lot of securing a written yeah I just find. I cannot stand in the offing, its exhausting, but also its fake. You get these like Joe clay.
substances that you get these weak room laughs at our your lab and then they all go into the show here and nothing. Nothing is nothing's real right and obviously seinfeld is heightened, but yet there is reality sure you have that I have outlined character, yes, that dare shallow yeah right. So you you have to honour that these are just puppets me most sitcoms or puppet very puppet people, he just say whatever their saying because of whatever is now going on with the garbage or I get to the rice exactly so by like giving up a movies. What happens is so coming over seinfeld here we all sign these big development deal is we're all like airline landfill as I've. We also means developing ales and they don't make. Any of our show zia basin and actually want what we were yeah. You know they respond to hold on yeah. They would tell us what sign out like that and so the, but what happened at the time was it was funny.
All the sudden struggling calls of four movie people who were initially looking for punch up here when further, where they were looking It takes some of their companies and they wanted them. We're looking for someone to you'll make it funny like sign, thorough, yeah, exactly yeah, so Jeff Alec and I started doing punch up together like sort of part time work. we were trying to do our credit stuff revision creditor early on and then eventually I mean not cool it is, but eventually credit like you know, but like no paid real were writers, aerial real true were yes and then eventually we start getting an opportunity to pitch. things you know and that's all kind of whatever, and it was this weird thing where we wanted to do. Television almost couldn't do hell of a young and I of doing I was like I think I came in like second. I managed to do I didn't. I didn't clerks animated cards, with Kevin smith, of which two
episodes, aired on a b c and I'm the second most successful of the I felt writer development deals that got stuff on a area: yeah, ok and then but eventually what what with euro trip europe is a teen comedy from a two thousand for with nudity in areas like a real old school already amity, where We were doing all this pawnshop, we were doing a lot the off and we were also getting into the sir situation, which was interesting where they were in times bringing us in early on and then bringing us in in the editing. Can you fix this in the edit room like and I'm not even talking about? We want to re shoot, I'm talking about. Can you just look at what we have put together will be in your situation. I'd be like yeah sure, where what what's your coverage? Well, decide to do it in a water. Well, then, you eat
thinking about you can fix. It wants an aluminum like wait, a second there's another seen in that set of their cutaway there. Oh my god. Ok, let's steel, those cutaway and we would fix stuff here but somewhere in there. We were like where these key we directors are awful. Lady idle dig like the that the com Director seemed like a very low bar. What would it were they when, when you really, get down there weren't funny it vienna, they just they didn't seem. Well, I didn't matter it. We just they weren't they were not funny people. They did not seem to understand the joke. Therefore, they had trouble capture the joke on on camera. early? Sometimes you just go. This doesn't work. in like retirement cutaway. This doesn't work if you can't pace it up with a cutaway, or this doesn't work. If I can see that guy's face because it what's funny, isn't what he's saying what's funny
Is him rehab centers have no sense of what comedy was no sense of how it worked here and also sometimes just totally wrong so that they were oh man, Did you get another performance? Where he's not so big sweaty and like that? They just thought you know comedy was, for them bleak, doubt lighting and everyone yelling, and there was a lot of that kind of stuff or ireland guys, decisive. We were just like we wanna. Do you want to direct the air we realize was no one is going to lead us directly. I guess we ve never direct unless we basically rightist scrapped as yet scrap dsl it and basically for them to let us so it was sort of we wrote a speck scrapped. There was
yeah people wanted it. There was a bidding war here and we met more or less said. We don't care about the money yeah. We want to direct and we want a. What do we call you directly at me schaefer and Berg. The same the same three directed all three are drunk did, although only Jeff got the credit that around wouldn't give us. This hired credit picked out of a failure is a learning thing. Yes, it was fantastic and it's awful and fantastic. I change almost every frame of it and I love it at the same time, can I tell you, I definitely learned yeah, but you know it was things like. I remember I kid you not. We, the three of us, not front of the crew. Anything amongst ourselves. We had a giant argument about a suit case that one of the characters like now donna door with visa and all I can tell you in final, hut is you don't even see the suitcase or above it? But you know what I mean. It was just shit like that. You know what I mean, but the fix yeah yeah. You work it out, but you know what it was, but we learn and came back from europe trip when when europe was released- and you know it was- over seven seconds. You know that morning.
They just told us, like your coming in fourth you're, coming in behind the third. We Adam sandler and drew erie more welcome to moose ports beating you and this other thing too. It was over yeah and we literally could not get arrested like like, like all of a sudden like no one wanted like they'd. Let us right, but certainly no one was thinking like you can, directing none of that yeah and the honest answer was Larry was like hey. I've got this office space overt curb and we're like hey. We could really use the office yeah he's like. Do you mind if I come in from now and then and runs, it by you, which we were occasionally doing like having lunch with him, and he was doing that once in a blue moon, three, the three of us and we were like yeah, sure that sounds great, and so I care what season there was. It was the seas in I think we're larry and giving his kidney to richard louis, where I am see I've used out and survive. That sounds right and
silly. We hung out in his offices. We worked on our stuff, we rely on, we were weak. People were letting us right movie here and we trying to rights things that we are hoping we might get a chance to direct yeah and Larry would knock on the door, and we would you know, help stuff in whatever. So what was by with with and then with any hired you while we were It was funny we were just doing, we were literally just doing, and it was just for you are getting credit will know. The time now and the end of the year at some point, hbo reached out and they were like hey, the real realize what you do we want to do. You know We want to make this a fish here really touched like this. Is this is nature and they like? Ok, here you go and they paid us. I want did ten opposite. Yes, they gave us, one thousand dollars one hundred in the episode and no credit. It was just they wanted to make sure they illegally owned. What we had come up, but you know what we were fine with it and Larry finished Larry finished
I came in one day, is only Larry can and was just like. We had nine episode news like so we can start production, we need the offices, It's got to get out like okay, bye, Larry and we went off and we did some. You know we, we got our own offices and we were doing stuff and then about a year later. Whenever was two years here. Forgive me he was the next season and charles who had been an ocean if a guy who had been directing and work with him on courier was going off to do your writing. I've ever charles. No, he left the year before me, but we'd. He would show up to two hundred time yeah, so he was going off to do bore at a yank and so Larry then said: hey do you guys want to come back and be Larry charles and we see Can we direct and he said, absolutely and came back sort of more with the word Officially, the three the three of us and we started directing and
Writing the show with him. Now what is the process of that another? Don't ever talk about it with anybody specifically, so was it most. We stories in the in the foreign before you ever get to the vienna whenever all its pitching stories. You we all use too, and this was a sign for turning. You know. I'm sure you're did to me. During that little pad a paper here and weird little scraps, we just right things: yale, sad or oh, my god. a guy yelled at me at the best buy good guys at the time core of good guys, yeah exactly curb seinfeld esque. Can I've still got that shit? It's on my phone. You know what I mean like: I saw one yesterday, sorry I'll this idea. Why? But I like wrote it down. I was like I wish I could call Larry, but yeah they're done yeah. It was a guy cut a license plate here and he guess he was trying he was retired it was like r e t, like I r
de, do all I can think of was boy if they didn't put that other I there and they look like it was retarded. That would be the greatest licence way in the world, and I just you write that down a picture of it. I wrote a data and it just the got: that's what it will they sing on around yeah. That's the nature of that specific style, I, the in writing or Larry David writing is like you could run episode of licence absolutely here, and it's also and the great curve and seinfeld up. Yet they all start with real, it's all stuff, but my my best seinfeld episode, episode called the bizarre jerry and in it there's man hands. Jerry dates is and with the man hands here. That's my wife. If she doesn't have man hands, she has foreign me hands. She called them and I changed it to manage, grew up on a farm yeah. She had like always had like hair. We
I turned them into giant man. Hands played by. Like a you know, a key grip. You know like see. You saw this beautiful woman and the hands were a crew guy yeah, but it but every all the great ones are real, and that includes the Larry stuff. You know like the contest, which was him here, that you know all the stuff from his life, but all our stuff, the great stuff, arduous yeah real, nine yazzi. I moments stories, people I can go ass season of curb was all founded in in some pretty sordid stuff yeah. That really happened. Yet but that's what's insane and increase the area so early on you just talking about idea, yellow and he's gonna going through his pad and yet off, and you are also trying to figure out the feed, The overarching live work and africa. Ten effigy what's gonna happen right and some of them were very natural, so they're like win when Larry had the blacks on we introduced. The blacks and this idea that sheriff was gonna leave him. We at the time was this answer to this
huge question, because you know people who don't like curb, or even people like it or just always like addison stay with him and it was sort of like well, let's, let's lean into that and We went down that path and that led to him going woman out what if he wants to get her back in, and that was the seinfeld reunion. So someone stories ill will lead to another, and then sometimes they were just. You know these bigger ideas like the prince but again the producers predate smear, but that sort of was a stand alone idea. You know right, so you working about you you're talking to him about these things and sometimes look. I am the first to admit this, sometimes we're just the we're just there. The wall yeah we're just the war, he yazzi I get to be a. He gets to bounce the ball off of asia and that's cool on line being the wall, and sometimes we get. As you know, we throw stuff in an area as you going and you start working on the island is against all outline alan out, yeah, you're, trying figure out what could happen. You're looking for these connections and its
us sitting with him and we're just talking through talking through talking through, and it's just fine, in that outline that is, you know again You know what you want that perfect everything colliding at the bed. Ultimately you got, it also has to be. You know, you're dealing with improvising actors that were not even up to that. So right now this is just in the off years and so We have this outline that Larry, basically, basically, it eventually just eat through his hands. Does it often times the outline? Is the outline but we ve all got stuff that we remember joking about higher, but we didn't put in the hour because we want the hour the actors to have yet to have a sort of that blank canvas yeah, so this, and this is what is the incredible part special go about direct here, because you with no offense to other directors who have directed on the show that are not the writers. Of the show me, and we were the writer directors. It is the closest thing that I can. I can explain to you.
it's like live rewriting. If you told me that it was just, we were rewriting and they were broadcasting. That is what it felt like the biggest you, directing you are trying to move the camera to capture these moments and at the same time, you are whispering thing the actors you are to try. This will remembering from the discussion. Hey Larry. Do you remember that yeah and then sometimes it's just shit that happens like we're shooting somewhere we were shit. Malibu marries a dolphin pianee gives, oh, my god, a dolphin in the middle of the sea and there's you know, there's no. You know there's that we were shooting once in a restaurant, I kid united and while we were shooting in the restaurant, the guy behind the guy who were there changed the the letter, the cleanliness letter from a to b and while we're sitting there shooting and he just kind of go like yeah. How does this? How do you not know what I mean one time he and garland drank from each other like Larry drank both waters and in the entire scene? I couldn't tell you what the scene was originally out, but
tire seen came about became about the information that needed to be delivered here and that will now we need more water and that's the show, but he s like a live rewrite riots, it's it's organic thing in it. It grows as your do ass. It grows and you're just as the director you're running initially we had two cameras he ate or on three, sometimes even free organic gotta. You got one on lariat, malta, robbing that's how I learned to direct, really like an iron sensibility around directing improvisation, as you kind of have to add in your head. Editing in your head. You sort of thinking about it out, especially on curb you are thinking and we're talking with a load of affair with the bad directors, not curb directorate bad commie directors, sometimes so much of the comedy is someone saying something and either drift over to someone's reaction or the reaction itself. They like, why
king Susie react. Larry is funnier than whatever it is, Larry is saying journey, and so trying to figure that out in my Larry Charles, you know we can talk about what people taught me later I laid it out really quickly like this- is how you direct curb, keep one camera on Larry, all the time and figure out what the other camera does. You know what I mean it's like. Thank you, L c. I get it edit here, There were moments that we're just I remember one time were shooting in new york. We did a new year season or have a season in new york, and I was on a truck with Larry Charles we're, towing, a car and basically the whole story line was there was something wrong with the front seat of Larry's car. When the guide did the mechanic, Robert smuggle didn't fix it. Because he was mad at Larry, because Larry had fucked up in the soft boggy. I was on all these things so bibbs, basically the fur see. The passengers is vibrating, so much that women are or ass, a from the front seat and he ends
with susie in his car who and heat I used to get her to sit in the back seat, but she won't because they got to get somewhere and she gets in the front seat and you know and Well, she's, just starting to whatever and he it's getting she's kind of coming, but he's and he's getting horrified and upset. And you know we did. You know regular kind of the coverage thing. We started doing ones, and I remember just doing with Larry, charles, where we were and we were told that we talk about. We have the camera guy, it wasn't even like Oh go go. It was just just just move between the two of them as fast as you human. We can't just and it's one of my like favorite things, but no plan to the german I mean it. You said it is an organic growth, but it but it's organic writing. Performance and directing just all motion together right. That's why and if you re ass, and if that happens, it's great yes, so, let's
yet two way I mean, did you wrote it up? movie, the dictator, was didn't, get wasn't received, but it was good in concept it's ok. I think, there's a good stuff period, which is a funny thing we worked with saw. Should we actually had pitched on winds up coming in and helping large, charles and sasha fear with the ending to the original bora? We actually pitched why I came the boar out, and so then he was like hey. I want you to pitch me some ideas and we really like the dictator idea. I don't know it got it gets sillier places in which they were higher bigger democracy, ideas that I think we shied away from in the editing remain like. I think there was we was a little bit more of an indictment and its inner a bit that that a fall. In dictatorship and in the eric endemic democratic system, were perhaps not as different as we like to fill our interest and also the fact that america
and in this I think our movie we had like russian gas or something or luxurious promised us were also supporting this crazy guy right rain. That sort of you know after are kind of well he's an asshole, but he's our asshole. You know what I mean you think you're going to hit that hard. I think we could have hit some of that harder yeah, especially given you know in what happened in retrospect, yes and then like on on veep, you, you did the last two I did last reason so when Armando decided to go what now, why? What did he say to you? It was interesting, You know our monos in of all the end. It was we cool Hee he genuinely seemed happy that was continuing and that they had gone out and recruited me for it, as opposed to, I guess some schmuck yes and the nice thing in the world, and I we spoke the your. I went
to london met him metal out of his team. We ended up going up to like the monk comedy festival and sort of doing like it try to get them. This was before like I like. I we haven't even for you, you get taken over yoda, I had the gig, but you're, like you know. No, we haven't made a show and he was just so know what to say that there are so many versions of this where he could have been such an azure, and he was so not just. not just that he was nothing. He has so wonderful, uncomplimentary, complementary there, his baby. I was always aware of it and I, cannot tell you how many times I in interviews, I always had to stop and just go. I didn't the show, created by our mandatory energy, I'm just the I'm, the I get to bring it on home where you know, and it just you know that when that was important to me not in important me in general, but also how good he was to me about it. So
now established characters done by great committee gasters now and that was it totally scripted show yes or no here we have The scripts and you know obviously same thing a little bit like curb in the sense of the planning of the entire zones and the really lockdown whatever I had scripts. I think when Armando did it, there were scripts, but they were definitely they were. There is more improv, yes they're just and there were times when I think for and again I don't want to tell stories have school where I think they are things were they weren't quite sure, and they just tried stuff yea improve rehearsals and took scripts out of those proper hearse. Yes, very me. I mean I did a lot of that on unclear, but I like to have an. Let me just go to curb for three seconds. If you one of those curb outlines that I was telling you about like a twelve page document. You could turn them script in under twenty four hours. Yet, how rocks the royal ok. Where are so? They are not people.
At their own early in the elderly people over the years all tried to do curb. You know they. All language can be curbed. The music industry currer here curb there and they are all gone. because it was like they had no stories and they had no ally. I was just more like will, will show in the studio, improv note and fucking work like so with with leap, a hard core. Ten episode plan, you know of the season arc arc that all I always like knowing what my first seen as I like, knowing what my last seen as of the season and there or because I know what my last seen in my season is. I know what the first sees surfer scene of the next season, which you know, and so I'm always trying to think like that, and there were our course scripts. Now that being said, hard core scripts a killer just group of writers and on the sat basically any moment. That's not seeming like anything. What else do we have here any moment
like there's air. Can we fill it yet o o get sam to say something he sanding right behind her. I just throw that in. Let's not worry about what people here or don't here, let us fucking janet loaded, I loaded up unbelievably arrow and then absolutely sometimes in a scene. they always like one for fun here, but sometimes at the end, like we get into the coverage- and I would just stand behind the camera. Yell new lies out, throw stuff out out would would say, say what you want you want and then they would say. No, so they will. We kept improv lie right, but it was deftly more script. The I s and you had to adjust to the trump presidency. Well, tromp presence. He basically hits in season two hind of general of europe. Of my right. Sorry, I run I'm sorry s season was it so it's five six and seven five, six and seven so seasons sit here and
in an hour show she had lost the presidency and was now former president I'd stay at which I thought was as those very added that I love the idea that you're doing a show about called veep about a former president, so yeah I just did yeah but I was going with. It is the fact that she was in office. We dodged a bullet because technically She was dealing even though she was plotting. Come air we were dealing with presidential library and fun regime's. Might get invited in beer supreme court in all these kinds of media, which, thank god, didn't mess and didn't bump up hence tromp glad as much sure when we came for then the front. What would we at that point? We didn't. We eventually knew was going gonna be the final seizure and I, of you can remember this moment when you think, this for years of try as bad as year, one why yet when he
to that state of the union in here to hear it's like he felt comfortable here, and it really got a lot, scarce yeah and that kind of hit- and this is like a bad joke, but what Lee Julia got cancer and we shut down and a rewrote based the final season and really what I realized was what we had been planning was irrelevant in the world of tromp. Yeah and that final sees in is just is very true. influenced influence. What's his name running well of you, it it just if you think about it, it him running, but also her behaviour as present, where wish how she is willing to use power the office yeah. You know in the sort of yoga nick sony at present utter it's, not illegal right and you have to do and when you think about what reap was, if you were a fan of it, so much
it was she it says the wrong thing and pays the price will all of a sudden there's a guy in the white house that doesn't seem like he's ever paying the price still and a guy in the show with you still exactly, and there was a show about somebody who talks one way in public, but privately is mouth and whatever that's gone to that that weird chinese wall that mere bahrwan that's gone. He says what he wants. So all of the I hate to say the first, you know five succeeds in seville. If you actually look at it, they seem like there from the eighty hundred times. I now don't. It seems that from a different tongue and so that far We'll season the behaviour, the We got the chinese involve foreign powers right. What are you, what a big what it really became about is what how much are you prepared to sell your soul to be present? Rustling. I've always believe
If you decide to infer present, there's something wrong with you to begin, there's something wrong with almost all politicians that yeah it's there's something weird. I can't figure it out whatever that drives you to be. Where guys I'm looking at this woman yeah the one from arizona area where like yeah? What is that and by the way- and she also mean just look transformation. She went from like newswoman yeah these people that have gone heartily ass, like that sort of power of positive thinking gone wrong in some was like that. That sort of that, these new wage, a kind of anthony robin yet will that of algeria smile it? If I think it, and I say- and armenia will happen, russia, like the promise that right at the right but its it it's like it, but it is like pod people, it's like william pod, peel and look, I think the problem is fox on me, one of your original fine, but it's that thing of there's, no one that you do it, but no longer is anyone. These are a system where anyone calls it on a because, even if, obviously, the new
At times my father was always like people, reading the op and times no, no, not no, no yeah, and that its like. It's that desire of like, theme and importance, but also some weird, like almost Jesus, like belief that you are that important arrive and now ok, I think it's not even power when you start to really look at what these well, I think they think it's power nine but like when you look at the the short term griffiths that some of the trunk being cabinet was doing like you know they're bending all these rules for eight thousand dollars. It's like what the fuck is that. Well, it's when stupid people are criminals. Yeah I mean that's, you know, and by the way I mean now, they were looking for. I mean when, whenever you want to talk about it, but like Watergate mean when stupid people are criminals yeah. I think, because I watch the new series I watched all of them as former oh, and no one told me that I watched all of them fantasy and it was great. It was very interesting approach because I said to my producer I said yo
really portraying these two as clouds and my british, because they weren't class, that's exactly it there. I tried to explain this because, as you know, I was here put it up from the pursuit of our j, gordon Liddy, and how high howard yeah They always are like you from whatever from the people from from, and what our and I've tried to make it clear. We didn't write jokes here now: just two. They story. Yes, that is fuckin stew, in your hearts it's kind of yet very well. I love those guys. I think Harrelson india and and throw did a great job. Everybody sporting ass. It was a resolve funny and and I'll based on true yeah and any. But there's a started the under the under the under lying story outside of Watergate. Was there you know, hunt was in with a J, f k, assassinate its base. It look was the cia operated area. Was there for bay of pay? I was involved here. You know
We say you know at the end. He me on his data that he may or may not have confess is, after that I believe I believe in role stone magazine, a printed that his son said. He confessed. I believe I will whatever that mean exactly? Does that mean yes? But I just really like the depiction of you because you didn't involve Nixon, that much on purpose and I'll. Tell you something interesting idea of your care about this. ITALY. We had I'd shot this thing where you were going to sort of get a weird, almost like tape, mike phone view of Nixon lay under the das yegg like I, I to see the tape recordings in the basement of the white house and an almost like, come up and then, like you, never see a face, but you'd see the microphones whatever and what I realized was. We only know these these tapes. Now nobody knew about them, then yeah and Nixon they didn't
Nixon was thinking. Why should the I know the sensibly, but it was very much about this- is The white house story: these are the guys there be given this weird mission and they really know what to do and soon a weird way: nixon Hu there working for, but think I forgot to meet, They never had interactions. So why should remove yeah? So why should the audience anyway? It was just an interesting little thing yeah, but I get that and that's the way sort of power works and that's what these guys protect them say. It's the way, powers where the mafia works, show business work yeah that you get into the executive structure. Things are just deflecting right blow him to tell him tell him I I'm ignited, do it right, but but like I just dynamic the comedy came of libyan hunt in that year jack, gordon Liddy, you know- was this. like ideological here. He was a go nationalist guy yeah and in a team player and a guy who wanted nixon's approval and how it was like this is. This is the way this goes. It was a fast
the biggest liddy at the time was desperate, desperate to be like part of it part of but also like on some level wanted to be James bond. Wants he wants and hunt is the guy that been through the ring there may or may not have killed kennedy. What exactly or knew something about asia and at the same time has been put out to pasture, and he knows it's bullshit and some level, but it yet he's also desperate and his wife's, an exit africa exactly but he's desperate to get back to it here and all that desperation is also, I think, what fuels their relationship, but also their boats. What makes it funny yet are also both believe what s a thing. It is very much. This is the story of the birth of the modern republican party. I do believe here where you do worry about what it is doing to you or your family or anything in the name of a president. That will basically,
cut back on you and you know you to the side. I mean it's me, it's the Michael cone story, but it's not michael cone. I mean I was in also there's something about the work of the things very good, the details, very good, and also this sort of reality of technology at the time is very good, and these guys what you just what I had to do, this sort of cover your ass. I was limited to the technology, but I like that if the through line of conspiracy, yet even at the time, then you never answered but certainly racing it right, yeah yeah! No, I thought it was great. It was very efficient and I and I and was I'm glad we got to have the conversation yeah now. This was fantastic thanks, buddy Ok, so that was there was good I've, no foresight occasionally have moments of for foreshadowing for not much foresight and I never to write from always happy to hear about how people do come about it. That life
You show whitehouse farmers. Premiers Monday night may, first at nine p m on HBO streaming beyond that, hang around second way: people in one of the reasons I don't go to a lot of live events is because it's stressful, even before you're dealing with the stress of getting there and parking and dealing with the crowds you gotta deal stress of getting tickets? Are you getting I'd seats. Are you being overcharged? Will you get ripped off? Get rid of that state with game time the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all the sports, music, comedy and theatre near you, this guy time app is perfect for people like me, because it takes all the guesswork out of getting tickets, you can photos of the seats and make sure you getting the best price and time is the place for last minute. Ticket deals forget planning, thanks in advance, gain time, as deals on tickets right up to the day, the event snagged the tickets, without the stress with game time, load the game time app, creating account and use.
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as a forty year and now he's living. It's like god, came down and said everything you want me to give you and he goes on tour now. He plays out theatres and all over the world. Cells them out. I just talk. about food clip about the show she lips, there's a q and a and somebody moderated and I've I did a guest appearance. I wanted more. I went there and I can The crowd was into me. Ok, but I said to Phil, I gotta go to question how this should happen here. I've been doing stand for thirty five years. You gotta to poland and eat meat loaf, and you sell out theatres anyway stayed for the coup and area, and I I learned my lesson. I rode
If I ever do that again, leave before the cutie, they didn't ask me one question: they didn't care, it's a wholesale and I love it. I'd be good for him. You know yeah, it's all there at the full marin, sign up for the full marin click on the link in the episode Description and you'll get all the weekly bonus content plus ad free access to all w g have episodes you can also go to w t have pop. I'd com and click on w e f plus next week we have Titus burgess on Monday. That's it we won and comedian chain mosses back on thursday to talk about his journey. With bottoming out on psychedelics and and his support of science in the face of missy, which I thought was a good good in relation to have data be thursday, and now I'm going to play. You know your Can I say if you recognize it.
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Transcript generated on 2023-05-18.