Let's do this, how are you what the burghers, what the fuck bodies, what the fourteen years, what about you, what the fuck dialects how's it going? It's mart mare- and this is my You'Re- welcome to it you listening to wmd up the podcast. First of all, I'm doing more trip any dates more. How more dates at the trip in the house at this tee, thou and theatre here, in LOS angeles, I am do the october twenty eight november, eleventh number eighteenth, Jeff, tate will opening for me tomorrow scam. If you'd like to come, they ve been fun, shows in its eight hours and benefits the theatre. You don't know what's going to happen, but I'm sure myself uncomfortable initially. Yesterday was football day I didn't Partaken that I have no problem any longer with anybody enjoys pop up, knock yourself out, just don't can judge me, you know,

You know Actually did I say: look I'll be enjoy football. I dont know how to in some guys, like you have still you for five and like football, my whole life never call myself from a grown ass man- and I don't like sports- it's not matter of me. Judging you any longer, but I was just an honest tweet and that guy's a dick you see the thing about. It is it's all very predictable people label people, people put people in a bar, What did I do today? I play guitar ate some food when guy in some records some man shit. Care what you say watching football all day. Why brutal t me one, so your life can have purpose for a few days. I know I've got three new lou, records and a few chief track records. I know that happened very nuthin. there's nothing week about then I build my cats of fuckin fountain. That's!

right back. I got down on my hands and knees and build my cats, a fountain, because I was told these fountains. inspire the cat to drink a bit more. That has not been the case Yet I got a pretty high end. One I'm not saying was thousands of dollars. Obviously it was under dollars. Obviously, but it was a porcelain cat fountain, The idea is the running water makes it very compelling to them. They like to stick their little cat noses into the running water, to feel connected to something that, genetically wired in them, perhaps her by the bank of a river or a creek were out in the wild the wild inside their genetic loop in there coil that's in there resell. That's running water. That means we're out wars and were hunting. I just hunted down that half a can a wet food and killed it now Stick my face in the running water of this creek. That's in this nice ball, that's

into the wall, but so far, this happened under the monkeys. Been nervous about ease, is worked out at a couple of times. Does make sense them? perhaps they know more than we think browser thinking in their deeply wild genetic history- there lineage It all the way back to the first cat sitting by river may be thinking like What is this as a link do in this area, We think this is a river. What a virgin idiot nice ball was found in it, but We now have an enduring drink out of it and I This is a big deal, but it is, you know I guess maybe a football guys. Don't talk about this stuff football guy just during freely and have no shame about sitting on a cow to watch and football with their fat hang over there to type with their team jerseys on I'm not.

I'm just saying. Their lines have been drawn between what a man is to some people and the definitions of it. I I I without tools built a cat fountain yesterday and sunday and again I'm gonna, say I bought the three cheap trick. Albums. and three loop albums and I didn't work a plug. Some things in switched out. Some extension cords did a little that play some very seriously serious guitar honour on again and three thirty: five yeah a gifts in three thirty five: that's a fuckin man's guitar bill Memphis tennessee I laid out some links on a gibson three thirty five slightly distorted power, by you sad and watch two other men play with a ball. I was taking real booze music. Without me,

an instrument plugged into at two vamp of fire. You, I have a cock fight. I would you do add some. epps you bruce yell, television was upset cetera, waited team one I sent this. or did blues lakes ended the ether. My dick was so big. My living room that it annoyed my neighbors now wash my cat. I watch my cat look confused at a fountain knows upset by it, because I want to like it. So today, on the show men in bill chef design, I dont provided but a lot of you to know who he is, but he is a comedian he's a writer for letterman undazed written several books, one of which is out now as well. novel shrink thyself. It came out earlier this year in get that wherever you get books he's out cup of butter books. I believe out there.

Also, I wanted to mention that if you want to your other episodes about what it's like to work on, the David letterman show you can get the app upgrade to that premium. There's episode twins With eddie brill who, as the warm for. Let him in four years did some the com. booking no longer. Does that episode to twenty eight with marrow marco, who was there at the big of letterman gated letterman, an observer to seventy precisely at the amazingly funny chris elliot who was on the earth. First version of the letterman show, as a recurring guest and writer those are all available at the dead, WTF app and get the free app and upgrade. If you want to learn more about letterman, but shaft has been writing for the letterman for like fifteen years or more, I'm not sure I'll talk to him about the but outside of writing for letterman couple of things here one of the first guys I ever really saw do comedy live he added. This position disposition is that cigar and attitude and that you I'll talk to him about that and I'll talk to him about where he got that disposition, but

What he also is known for is years ago and you comic nerds. You comedy some of you that certain type, a comedy nerd know about this year's. Oh bill hicks, The last parents. He did on letterman before he passed away. was cut out bill hicks it'll letterman said, and it was cut from the final broadcast and aired a set that bill shifted, earlier that night different show even now I'd, never third, the true story. I know that David letterman made an apology to bill hexes. Other publicly and, I believe, aired the set in its entirety. If I'm not mistaken, I didn't know what happened. We all assume that he had said something to piss somebody off whether was about abortion or about I care member. I'd heard that it was says censorship because of advertisers, but, but always this bill shock was ere. They used his set that kind of hung on him, he's the guy that

waste hex. The ninety got out of the letterman show now ass bill, shaft about it in we get his angle on it. You guys are going to do with it. What you will he was there and an he is going to tell me what would happen from where he set me- was the guy that replace hicks so severe. comedy nerd or you bill. Expanding a conspiracy theory still got an angle on that now. You'll have another angle, I guess that's what I'm saying is that ok good I went to see bird man's very compelling flick, smarter than I even think it is. There were and after the movie rise like I do not want that. over the top, or was that actually a smart move in any sort of start? Thinking about a deeper you? I always some of those actors how to act in three different ways and three different levels, and it was interesting cause. Some of it seemed a little broad in some of the character, seemed a little lamb. You know heavy handed, but then you sternness think like will. What was the replayed alto places?

Theatre, so, what's a play, what is in a play? What kind of tricks of playing with this in an odd way. The only one that Isn'T- You know heavy handed noise, Michael Keaton new place this this old actor, who was known for this superhero he played in blockbuster movies it's a very sort of claustrophobic clean creatively, shot all within the confines of the theatre, give or take a couple of eggs, terry at a bar and on the street. It dealt with the theatre, verses, celebrity verse in kid, verses old people and dealt with a lot of stuff buddy, I mean edward nortons, always fuckin. Saddam Michael Keaton was brilliant and the yo of a knack, as was in it. He was good. Ever was good. It was interesting movie using using big movie? I don't open the ending you know, but I can tell you what it is, but Keaton was great and I know me- I am somewhat of a loner I've had it the people on the show I've had Michael Keaton on this shown. It was a great conversation, but do I talk

cookie. No do I talk to anybody really has been on the show, an irregular way, not really, except for the ones that are very close to your close friends but, but you know, I I I might took a chance in an old email address for micro keaton, I just texted a man fucking my job in the movie hope you're well mark. I did that I'm not expecting to hear back. I just I just started, but you know I always feel weird that, like there is he going get that guy? That is that, given that podcast, maybe given my email? Did? I'd, never email them before accept the one time organ do the podcast see. This is why this is why don't to why? Don't I don't email? This is why I'm not giving John hammock all right now. This is why me- and I just. So let's start to build shaft here. This is a great conversations, one of my favourite to have as of late. I had a great time talking to this guy bill, shit,

it's weird, because when you know I got the opportunity to take a look at the book in they. They said bill shaft in the EU wanted. Do the show Andy you hold day. There's a! U have there's a part of my brain, you have a sound place in my brain. Do you know why I think I do really will become Well, I think I was one of the first people you saw do stand. That is right is there any way that you were involved there MC that that event, that h b o did catch a rising star live on campus, no campus common ampas comedy at tufts university? That was where the show was. Where were they taped right? I didn't m c. While I will. I did a lot of them before they got the show they head off

these talent shows it all. These call right. I addition ok and where, where did you audition did you did in the basement somewhere? Did you did? I know I addition first in in area in a college classroom there That's right. Then we did a showcase at the comedy connection in Boston. Ok, but I bet believe you didn't m c the night yo the warrant on camera gas, but you didn't know I Did the warm up fur joe pisca po, and there were two takings it at tops and there's too things that I remember about that night. Is that my parents were there and it was a huge, a hosting hosted and there were two tables. So I was warming up and right before I went on. I overheard my father say to a complete stranger. If I gotta go to honour the fuckin stand up. Next, and now I gotta go on, and I did it

and I did really well in the world, and I did so well that the producers came up to me and said Joe is gonna. Do his own for the next two really because I had no idea that he didn't have an act right. I had. You know why had the characters. Relatives are so that's what I want, but I probably yeah, but I emceed a lot of those auditions. and I remember the one in the classroom and dumb. I didn't remember there being. Maybe I was it you maybe I do remember and doesn't allow Larry really cause. met leary at the auditions at emerson, and he was like a graduate teacher and that's when I met him for the first time because because the thing I remember was that you know you were you had this I'll stick terms of like you are already in a manner something he added cigar about. Where I added a suit like you know, you seem to be very put together any sort of cut an impression

like I admire you, you like email on three, so I was all of twenty six, the avian they had the whole thing, a very competent and he had just cigar and rise. I waggery around that's yeah yeah. You got me the year. I was confident me you ve got me and And- and I would year because I've been a sportswriter and then I became a comic and I still went with the same kind of outfit with the tie down in the cigar and when, jerry seinfeld would see me catch arising story would say still trying to do that? Five. Forty five to greenwich thing I share with your thing right, I was my thing but where'd you come from. I was your father that show a tough did. You combine annoying austin, I will be lost and I grew up and yeah given in a Newton newton beverly and my father, my father was is this man and my mother was a stay at home. Narcissist and you know that's what happened. Yeah, yeah, that my father was a doctor and narcissism. My mother was a stay at home, narcissus yeah, that's very funny!

Now we all you gotta get ocean for that show all that's that's why before I even did stand up. I was in college and I talked to my buddy on the five hundredth episode, my buddy Steve brill. We put an act together cause we saw the signs around the school we went in and put this act together was mostly sketches. Wasn't really stand if there was no real team dynamic. We didn't have any structure around like the way we interacted, but we did it right and- and you know I had to stand up bug early on and I wanted to stand up and I went down to catch the I seen you- I saw you a couple of other times and you're always like that that guy the guy with the cigar from the thing, the guy that much older than he actually is yeah, but you would just be like yeah the whole yeah. That was, I guess that was my shtick. I guess it was it just was I mean that was my sort of outfit since birth. You know the coat and tie in the tie down- and I like day with values classic it- you know ye- there is their people that I guess they would call it branding now. But you know who was on camp to two things about campus comedy one of the people it was on a show was Jeff,

the actually made it into when he only had one puppet when he only had one public, that's right and alien and an it's. The only show in the history of hbo that they never repeated I don't think they ever showed it more than once or twice what it was. Bad, it was just. It was kind of nothing. It was. It wasn't like the young comedian. Special is a big idea. I think I think they made they thought. Maybe they could franchise it like this, it never ending, yet we go audition, kids, all day long right near in it it at the end of the day- and I that one of the year you know in one If the people on the campus comedy show was a woman that was in my class at harvard says she was at least twenty seven or twenty eight wait. Wait! Wait! Let me train, I, the better you, Andrea Michaels is right. How hilarious is that? Is that gray, how the fuck can I remember the ad? Oh, no wow, that's unbelievable! Let's go for a thousand now that is unveiled yet and why

because she was attractive and she had this odd act and she did slightly provocative stuff right. She was yet one joked, I'm trying to remember now, because I remember there was one joke she that I thought was really funny was kind of sad. I remember one joke that of hers, where she that her breasts are different. Eyes in so when she wears her unit the minnesota teacher it looks like minnesota. The arena that was right but so wait till you grew up in newton right and you went to harvard yes, I did, but what what was your wife? I would you dad do my dad was my dad was in the shoe business shrews yet for a while, and then he was in the health and beauty aids business through What he had was it not a salesman but wow? He was, you know a guy. It was one of those things which are dead. What are we supposed to put down where it says occupy just put executive

those two arduous blaine yeah out exert and- and like I said, you know my mom, you know a brilliant woman was a great golfer stay at home, nor since they had six kids six that I was a fit of six, a large jewish. Have enough guilt to go around? How is that no know and end in my my parents were were more much more interested in have the children rather than ratings. So but six, that's crazy. It is crazy. Do not orthodox now it does it and it makes it makes no sense, and you know what a liberal jew they do line and my act that we know we believed in the ten commandments. We believed you could pick five. although I am a guy, but I notice it like I'm your wiki page or even in a maybe it's on you're on your your website, yet chef that come eat only comic. I was a comic for third,

yeah. Well, I think what I do on in the bio. I say I was a comic for thirteen years and and and I'm a I'm very proud that I was a comic. I still feel like I'm a a comic and many in many ways- and I was lucky enough to be a comic at the best time- to be a comic when the boom app and you can really make a living, I mean- and you know me I favour and tell him you were out on the road. Thirty weeks a year and yes right when actually doing she's doing great, thank you. She was said she at last year was a tough ear, but she's great now she's a how good yeah she's gray. I remember her hair will then, so are you the only show business kid new family? Yes, what they all the owl and are doing. Well, my my oldest brother is a professor, my what is he a have a have a journalism and literature down at north carolina, central university and my oldest sister's, an occupational therapist and other sister's a teacher. My other sister is a a doctor she's a clinical.

while I trust in my grandmother went to harvard after me and he's he's he's the guy, you're a police officer in massachusetts. If you want to pass the sergeants exam, you take his class he cops and funny or than I am and he's got the cause he's got the stick. I just had the words my brother always had the stick, but damn a funny family, It sounds like that real liberal juice went into reasonable, helpful in absolutely and I'd let this man in the bonobo and it might cause. My mother was believed that you you did so and now I don't know how telling jokes in a chinese restaurant doing surveys, but so you you're you're a sports fan, which I am not yeah. I was a sports writer for awhile and that's where I started so whenever so you go so your parents are supportive. You got into harvard. Did you dad go to harvard know? My dad went to yale right, my mom went to harvard

We had some pedigree their low bed, yet I'll bet I well, I did the whole deal. I went to dear feel academy, which is in all boys. School or is that one in an empty airfield, matthews managerial like by spring for those not exited? It's not the other one saint. Whatever saint aubert Paul's my brother, what to say pulse my older brother went to, and over and over my older brother was is an exit or one exit. The tube, the the the the big three are andover, exeter and and deer from those are the those are the big three and then you got the other places right. Like the ones that are sort of the right of preparing you for your place in the aristocracy now might went when when George bush was was not elected, the first time in two thousand, the set the right- and the second was the first thing that I said to my older brother How about your old stick ball, commissioner, is now president united states. He said what are you talking about? I said George george bush. He was the stick ball, commissioner, to over, when you were freshmen, he was a senior he said now. He said you're wrong. He said this

dick ball. Commissioner, when I was a freshman, was this asshole from texas? Oh yeah right. I send you never know. What's weirder about their story, they eat him. Remember that there's a stick by commissioner. We will that Iraq is a stick more chemicals. They had a stick ball league and for all that. You know all that we all want. The elite is doing indirect school at then in the sixties, aching a game that is notorious for coming from the streets at of lack of a field right and appropriating it for their now was need right. It's yet it's this sort of irony! Look at us scanning hole. We die, they equipment derive. What did they not play them when the two fields at the school did I laid in the parking lot? I think you know we played it in. You would play it sort of wit. We played it and we use sorted this transformer for

backstop it. You know you would play it on some weird configuration or in saga, so you go to harvard you would weigh in in the english know I majored in latin cause. I thought the church was going to come back and cover it, and I You are just drawing the pass. No, I swear. I could, because I you know I majored in classics. I thought that you know I was going to be. I dunno a latin teacher or pharmacist or whatever you're going to be with a degree and end and then do to help you and all did you read all about. It- exceeds all absolutely everything in its the best training for a writer. I teach you the value of a word you're. Reading. You know I believe, the greatest literature in the earliest form. I learn so much the latins like the route of most language correct and I a major however- and I am in no way is one thing you can do- is be a teacher and I came from a family- teaches that. Well, maybe I'll do that you money was it

no? No, my mother, my mother, my mother did a lot of volunteer work in politics and you know worked in the jack kennedy congressional campaign and I said well what was what was that, like? He had the filthiest apartment, I've ever seen a really will eventually get yea, but but there's lot of maya, my mom in this book and also miserable she jet she's. She ninety one, but I have taken the liberty of ring writing her eulogy. in the boy shrink, thysel, yeah end and there's a lot of stuff about about her she's, a tremendous character. She once I once said to her mom how about a little on condition. love and she said to me I'll, show you unconditional love when you ve earned it, which is, phenomena. Have you really care about the net and another? I don't have that. The other one I haven't the book was, might my younger brother came

one night and he said: listen. I've decided, I'm gonna run for office. One day nea and my mother said why you gonna do that, so you can win and one in employment agency, and that was it he never. That was the end of it too. Gotten that cynical about politics at some. Yes, yes, that their dub yeah, I think so I mean she was still interested in active, but she was very that there are no hang on yeah neo once you work within it, so yeah I majored so imagine lamp lampard. I also wrote for the for the paper at harvard the harvard criminals, a sports writer and always loved sports. My uncle was very famous sportswriter. My uncles was herbert war and wind the dean of can go writers. He coined the phrase, amen corner at the masters you over the new yorker for years and he was a big influence. I know him. Oh my. idea. We were but mean he was he's. The most flew, ensure man in my life,

it does he's the reason, I'm a writer as much as anything else. So I wanted to become a sports writer and so at a college. I worked in albany new york for two years and I dunno if you've been albany, but it's not some of god's best work, and here was a sports writer. two years and then I quit the job, and I came to new york ostensibly to become a freelance sports writer, but I couldn't make any money and I had done stand up between the ages of eighteen and twenty. Two I'd done stand up like twice You can always one of those guys, whereas eighteen we stole a family members, car dear feel, they went out to a boar Northampton data and I thought. It was kind of something I could do as a hobby and then I realized tat I could make it was making a money, and so I guess I should sort of pursue this and I auditioned catch rising store in december of nineteen. Eighty and I and the woman that was running audition. She thought I was funny, but she thought lair again. She was wrong and she wouldn't pass me to me six months to pass audition. It had better. That's that's

still a small amount of time, but I will do everything. being arrogant, was very long and you think you are right, but meanwhile I got even with her cause. I married her and that was able as area. Yes, she was she used to run audition night, that's her! before louis right before before loose before I mean yeah back then the m sees ran the shoulder. Put people on was bouser gone already. Bells are had just left by, let's go back from the second, I you know about sports writing you know, and in in relative to to stand up in some in some way. In my mind you know, and when you tell me at not being a sports guy and certainly not being a golf guy, that your uncle was This well respected golf writer yeah and I I'm thinking to myself. What does it take to make gothic citing what do? What are you learn? Is a sports mean? I know, obviously, if you're into sports it. You know you live it, you breathe, it I learnt from a friend of mine, it's how you feel alive. It is something that gets you out of yourself and but what it

some of the tenets. Ok. Well, that's easy to answer would golf, because gulf is something that people are passion. about whether they are good at it or not, because it's something you can play your whole life you play, I play don't play. I don't play very much and I look like a guy who doesn't play very much use to play a lot more and you know my mother was a wonderful golfer. My father was good golfer, my brother's a gulf. I just don't play and don tell me the joy of golfing bill tell me why I knew the yoke? As I know, people love gulf, like re, Romano loves gov, there's people John Mendoza, loves ya'll Kirk, my friend kirk, it's a sort of what thou is it. I know you you're outside you walk outside its the well it's the of the pursuit of poor, the fact that you know it it play.

To your most grandiose expectations about what you are as an athlete and on on on a given day. You know you and tiger woods could be in a twosome together at a par three, and a tiger could hit his drive way over the green and you could hockey it up to about twenty feet short of the green and get down into, and it might take tiger three to get down, and in that moment you're better than him, so I think that's the thing that people go that that they play. You can be better than the best on a good day. In a moment and Larry David loves. I mean let I mean I saw Larry David have the round of his life. He shot thirty eight on them. excited riviera and it was like a scene, you know, would Larry you know know how, when people are out a dinner, you know straight people or non comics are at something. Silly will happen in people's lives

like an episode of seinfeld, the differences when you're with Larry things happen, You know you never know when, like a little plot line in curbing enthusiasm may break out, and I was with Larry that day and he started and all of a sudden, this sort of gallery forms behind him of these goals nurse and these caddies on and any noses. You know, there's a radio. They got going crazy because he's doing so well, they were doings an end. You know. Maybe they thought you just just IRAN yet run, and he never I mean he'll. Take he never played better than that afternoon, but people on people love it big. I think people love it because it's it's one of those things it's so if such a simple gay and it's so aggravating and you're. Just constantly pursuing being is good issue, as you think war and then also you can

we have all year round. You can play it everywhere. Every courses are different. You can travel to play it wisely, because because a tennis court is a tennis court is it scrite either it then. I ask a small coins. Is a basketball court in a basement out but put at every golf courses different? So that's the thing! That's that's! When you get to scotland yeah right and that's that right and that's what I think that, and so writing involved in the equipment and they get involved in the history to get involved in golf course. Art and my uncle was incredibly generous because he would share his knowledge, every peace that he wrote and he would write these ten. Thirty, word essays for the new yorker and every piece that he wrote and he's. Also. My uncle is a character in my first novel, the wringer and every piece that he wrote was a history. Lesson was an architectural lesson. It was a golf lesson cause he was. He was not a lot of writers who kept their rights old knowledge to themselves so that so what

then, and what makes him greatest elevated it did to an ultra. Almost almost cultural criticism correct. So, like anything, the great essay or cultural critic yeah some some sports writers, have elevated it to that too. Where becomes about morality, mortality, crew, history, right and an end, my uncle, he covered every masters from from my nineteen forty three to eighteen, eighty eight and then he was sick and nineteen. Eighty eight he so he couldn't covered nineteen, eighty nine masters, so he gets out hospital and I say you want to come over and watch it with a and this is like This is like having Virgil, read you the unique. So here, and he knows every blade of grass at augusta and it's one of those things were a guy hits and he says: that's gonna come up to a little oak on the left and there it is in these two things that he did he hated about the masters he hated the seventeenth hole and he hates burn long quist. He hated the old

CBS sports enough who still working verne lunch was so the first saturday were watching and they announced the guys is my favorite story about him and in were watching tv and where it there, Seeing ok, let's go down and see the course it you know, I mean, am Ben right it fifteen. I am gary mccord at sixteen and I am verne Lundquist at seventeen and my uncle says: that's a good spot for you, Verne screams at the tv, but I miss him he's a tremendous guy, just crazy, smart. So writing about golf. and yet they it has this long history. You know, and it has a lot of a it's it's an old game, and so you can really sort of open it up to a lot of stuff, a writing about basketball baseball for years. Yet, as a sports writer, you've gotta write about everything right correct, what about everything? A rosa grid wrote great pieces about hockey and tennis in the tennis hall of fame he's in the gulf of it was a brilliant sport. Try, but Gough was his gaze, so those are big shoes

to fill that you decided awhile ever was no. I was never going to be him, but I know, but you Ebay, he he's the one who inspired absolutely absolutely. He was very. He was very incur But nobody was happier when I got the job on the letterman show than he was because he always wanted for me to be able to write jokes for somebody else. He always love that ideas. It would be good if you could, you know if bob hope was still alive and he was then So the boat was still alive. It would be great if you can write from involve up with is gonna lit twenty. You gotta written feedback right, but I think that since because he sighed from an occupational point of view, the even necessarily think that being a comic was a smart journey, but to be around here you are to be the guided works, but he understood that being comic, that it had that it had a lot to do with writing that it had a lot to do.

with editing in your head. That had a lot to do with word play, but also to be successful. Had a lot to do with luck right and well, there always fraid four year for your security right, but the thing is is now with some critical distance. I now figured out the thing that the comics that make it that, of course, how did I never made it clear how a thing here it is, if we judge Adrian, I just figure this, oh my god, it is as this is an ear of study. Ok, there's this one thing: a lot of them have balls. Yet! Ok, that's balls! You gotta balls, but you have to have complete and utter commitment in the material. It's the commitment. You know, that's the thing about hicks when they talk about hicks. You know his stuff was great, but the commitment to the material yeah that's thing. You know. Morton short, you know he comes out and there's no to me, there's no better letterman, guess than morton short and rate.

I'll and he does those silly songs and they're just nonsense, but the commitment he acts like this is the greatest song ever written and I'm the guy. a singer ever in breaking. Don't you, but but these you don't he's a song and dance man were right, but but but it is, but they are they For you know they are behind many songwriter, but it's that, but he brine mats hilarious. You have, but also like. I want we in standing up. He has to be commitment behind a point of view absolutely because you just a joke, teller, you're, gonna struggle, a little bit, no matter how committed you are well. That was my will to me. That was now we're talking twenty years or twenty five years later, my problem was always hey. You know, I wrote it. I think it's well written here. It is That's not good enough. That is not only more amazing that you're gonna perform right, but it becomes. Who is this guy get he's gotta jack and a cigar right right? But you know what you know what's his angle, because if you really think about even that generation, your nineteen eighty

You louis has already gone, but you know like larry and jerry and bill mar, even as it as a managua. Just there was some point of view. Absolutely a thousand. sent- you have even had a young man. We, I remember you no more once said about jerry, that he said thrown away in a act. Jerry used to do, and the only did this but a couple of times he used to do a bit about which were getting bar mitzvah in an thirteen and its. Today I am a man. He said you know when I was thirteen. I had terrible scourge and my voice was cracking none of my clothes fit. I was awkward. I was ganglia if somebody if somebody car bro, down- and they saw me standing on the side of the thirteen- they wouldn't say anything- that man to help us and it was such a always gonna. Laugh but jerry tossed it out because I think he didn't want be associated with being a jew, yet air to me no standing on this Y y. You know what I mean. I think that he marks that mean

as an observer. Maybe you could, but you could validate, is there it marks the transition added jewishness in a way absolutely thousand percent and a house because, like the seventies, it was all neurotic juice right give or take a few or you know latinos other ethnicities, you know, but but the the like the new york sort of cultural tone defined. comedy for the country in a way it was all jewish and I am for you before that? jerry with the name. You know that he just eat just gutted the jew out of it right with interesting, yeah- and I remember you know when I was starting in and in every once in a while. I would get a note back from agents. Are people in the business ina ye lean on that word, jew too much- and you know what signal I think it's funny and I wouldn't Listen to it and then, like five years after me, John Stewart

comes along and it's jew, jew, jew, jew, jew brought it back, he's a genius. You know at but again again the difference between me. He had, I think, great commitment to the way he was deliver. In the stuff mighty admitted that he liked him as a stand up when he before he became he had a couple of jokes that would that were very smart like he and he was a politically bo. always, but not of heavy handed right- and I I you know, I like him as much as I I'm jealous you out of your sight you get, there are nineteen. Eighty, you become a house mc one wanted three right. Yet you you for your part of a long legacy of of william belgium bells the fine, that job absolutely end and he was out of ETA control. It allows light was out of control, and the thing is: is that an end and bill Maher did this, and I never did this bill more, would do a lot of time between

next. If there was some risk that used up, then he was the embassy, the comics waiting hated right and he and he was if, if, if someone was and to see someone else. You know bill did a good nice, but at times so they could see- and you know that smart to cnn him and yet and I I never I had that in me. This is why I ended up in albany after I got out of harvard and not at the times the washington post, because I was the one guy at harvard that didn't think to call the times or the washington, and they there any harvard guys there. I just sit well I'll, send out my clips in the best you some of you, you are humbler and secure one of the other, let's go within six, arriving at all, as you like you know, I mean harvard now, is a tremendous cachet, the brotherhood of the lamp whom brotherhood and I also derive rival because of a decision. I made it a teen it right for the crimson rather lampoon. It took me so much longer to break into television whom I had no connections harbour was all about connections. It was about protecting connection. That's correct,

diane, and you chose not to do that because you like nah, I dunno, maybe I'm you know just send my stuff out yeah right right. This is a meritocracy you're going to get, but then years later, when my first book came out, the rain I was talking to a woman that was an editor at newsweek was a year ahead of me at harvard, and I explained to her what I had done as a senior and just sending my clips out. Let's see what happens and she looked at me and said: isn't that you don't like it, you didn't understand what harboured was I work at all. I had no, I no idea or two okay. So for your your Some see, and I remember seeing you they're occasionally I never you not to be quite honest with you. I never pass at the original catch and I could not stand louis veranda, I deny even to this day I have I have. I still have resentment the unresolved present you're in you're into that we're talking the nineties now on. I will need a wee adrian. I left a crisp.

New year's eve and eighty seven right, so I get to know I get there in eighty nine and I'm young, I'm already. You know working yeah, I'm up in Boston and the I audition at all the clubs in in you know I did say yeah I got to sydney, sydney, sydney, maybe I'll get jan. I was that guy hang out at the bar yeah. Maybe I get ya and I just could not deal with. It but I got into the improv right before it ended in and that's where we met, we met at the improv, so you you're not going out for thirteen, years as a comic Was there a moment way way? You know I mean I get it. I get. I know that life and I know that you know like because I never I always with that. I've never thought to be a writer. I never never even crossed my mind and I you know I spent a while longer than that, you know beat my head against the wall. Was there a moment where you I got? You know I. I got a shift. Well, I know a well. It was if the thirteen years, the first six I I loved it at the end, like the second seven unbeknownst to

I was kind of traffickers. It was what I was how I made a living. I didn't know how to do anything else right. We are more than a horrible manoa, the skills beacon right words and yeah. What I mean? Well you know, I had a couple of shots at that in, but that's those are destroyed in an the letterman show came on and eighty two and I submitted as a writer for them. I try to get on as a comic I came close can close. The tonight show. You know I have the heartbreak stories, like all of us do about the tonight shown literature and I submitted the let him show in eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, eighty seven, eighty eight pit manuel joke sketch the whole thing- and you know in show business when when they want, should they'll get until you told you how to do that and we how'd you know, was your idea of Bob Morton who is to come and see the cox who was the producer and stephen star? Who was my agent at way more in and they would say, they're looking for somebody and an never even came close, so

I took nineteen, eighty, nine and nineteen ninety off from yeah from submit and be sad. There were no just that all guess. You know you know how you feel, how I guess the business has made its decision about me. You know that more n and I was on the road and- and I could I could sense, the shift in the row near the clubs were closing via an dumb. Then in ninety one I got a couple of small jobs. I got a job on Dennis leary show on the on the han network. We work, I'm innocent right, but with that it was a show called after drive with billy kimball he and Billy Kimball hosted, and then I got another small job and then Adrian I were having breakfast at the friars and Morton was there and I I walked up to them and I said, are you looking for rice? He says we're not looking for anybody. He says you know, but he said you know just write some jokes. As his day

we're always looking for jokes, so I've you know I had. I didn't, have any work that week. So I started writing jokes and he only used to do three at NBC and the thursday nine ensuring general under fear, show too real. Has there was only because there was one rule at late night? Do not be the tonight shall write so the mai, log was opening remarks in it was kind of tossed off, so the third that thursday night, he does one of my jokes and then friday night he does one of my jokes and then Morton calls me back and if you were a comic back, then Morton never called anybody back. He called me back, he says, turns out we're looking for a monologue writer and I got hired the next week- and that was a ninety one- had been there ever since you still there yeah assembly via the eye. Shortly, I guess my question specifically is you as the m c a catch at that time I mean I can imagine what you know. Bill Maher was doing, and you know, and and and

jerry and- and I can imagine that bite near these mythical stories about Larry David as a comic- I do- I you know I I've only got some yet you hear half things, but you saw it. I saw it and here's the deal so I pass it catch in in june of eighty one so now- and I working late, not I'm gonna two in the morning to become a late night m c. So now it comes around and its december of nineteen eighty it's the holidays wall, the comics, the new york comics, live out. Now lay they come back so the shows which are normally great. Now you got these guys that have come back for the nowadays. So Larry is is interview maritime? It's your names on fridays, so I mean not buying it out in the bar.

me and run Zimmermann runs Zimmermann how's. He doing these great is a producer, any shares best friend. What else could be put long? You talk to every once in a while. He algeria and am so we're in in the bar and Larry, is pacing back and forth up and down the boar and Zimmermann says hey. with the pacing and allow davidson? Do you know that woody allen used to throw up before I went on every time? And I think I gotta go in and see this year? hope it can be done in a while. So he you know he was always so now I go inside our egos and this is the holidays. It's ten at night, it's nineteen, eighty one, it's pact catch is the center of the comedy universe, ia and lays german from fridays Larry David, and they go re easy and he gets on stage in the

to wines kill. The first line is a notice about attractive people were not well liked, in the you know, is it okay? If I use the familiar to form with you, people cause you stead as much to form a pet, so the two lines killed and he doesn't line that doesn't work that well and he says, is it or is it hot? In here Then he does two lines to kill me has done. Why doesn't do that? While this is right does one line that kills and one lay it doesn't do. Well, you know you. These kind of prices in the air conditioner is faulty. Then two lines in a row that don't do well really very hot in here and at that moment some guy in the audience has the nerve to say. Hey

what's your problem, my problem, my problem is: is you people that were in the air conditioning screaming and storms off and that's the first time I ever saw and that incident was repeated thousands of tub one way or another and in it would always be and weak. We got to be friends, and it was one does things where I would be on the phone with him and I would say so, how's it going for you. Have you been getting in any confrontations with people Absolutely not, but wait a minute the dry cleaner today and he would tell some crazy story and still a you know with Larry, and you know it's funny about this book, which is the shrink. This was about a guy that leaves therapy. You know, Larry David was one of those. Guy is one of us because it thinks that therapy is nonsense. He its absolute nonsense and he thinks you know they're just so bored all day. Everyone here is, I want,

sex with my aunt. He says, if you don't have that you might as well not go to therapy, you don't know yet. I don't believe that I do believe that there are many many therapists out there like. There are many stockbrokers and there are probably seven good stockbrokers and there are probably you know, seven really. You know big. There doubt there is my father used to say about stockbrokers. You know if they knew anything, they wouldn't be brokers and dumb, but Larry and the thing about Larry and- and I want to give him a lot of credit about he's, the only guy that I can think of that has gotten more regular, as he's got more famous. It never happens very pleasant guy off stage it. It never happens that we'd, because you never hear them interview A neighbour and say

No, I I grew up with many was real ass Albertini became famous. Now is a pussy cat, you know never it's always what I think you exercise a certain amount of your demons and once you become relevant, invalidated absolutely but Larry has is much more accessible and now in his fame, as as he ever was now. That said, No any time you're with him, you never know when a scene from curb is gonna break out in the store that I tell you a few years ago, is in town and we're having dinner and we get to it. Time for dessert and I say about desert now, no dessert for me dense in and I have a bet, no desire for a year and up the king was Mary David. It's ten dance, tat, both billionaires here, what the bits gotta be like fifty thousand two hundred that maybe that's like a million dollars a and I see how much is the bet for two hundred as I said, have a piece of fuckin kid,

it is still you know. He's still. Is that guy? That's right now, little thing and that's the way he has to be right or you get the gig, at letterman right and are you there almost twenty five years right and you have not written your first book yet? No, I don't write my first book till till I write my first book, which is everybody's first novel, which is one hundred and ten thousand words, eighty thousand, which are I that doesn't get published. I write my second book, the ringer that gets published in two thousand and two okay, my second book time. Won't. Let me about a band to that five. My third book everything hurts two thousand nine in this book shrink thyself and you have an audience for your book yeah. I mean it's, it's not as it's not as big EL, as I would like, like you're getting better. Absolutely a thousand percent night

This is my best. This is in the first person, and I think that this is the most accessible to use that word again of all my novels, because you know the first one was about a guy that makes a living as a softball ringer in new york and dumb. You know that's kind of talk, that's the kind of us. all audience in there's some prescription drugs abuse in there and you would think that would advance of the second book how can we accept at the right time right? They are there all thereof, material in their own way. I mean their deadly serious to me. You and other people, them satirizes yeah. I guess you're right. The second book is about based on was inspired by store. That happened. My older brother, about his band in prep school. They cut an album and, and ten years later, the animals were five thousand dollars for a collectors say I recreate that story, but you know that with historical two cute and meet in my story? It's thirty years later the hours were ten thousand dollars and the

I can't get out of their own way to reunite, but that was a very specific sixties garage. You know garage rock yeah. That was a very specific. The third book everything hurts was about a guy trying to get rid of a psychosomatic limp. You know, again. You know these are sort of high minded thing. You know an end, but this one, You know everybody is either been to therapy know somebody that's in therapy has had a bad experience, has had a good experience, and this is about a guy that tries to leave therapy and tries to live the unexamined life, a half and the second. He makes that decision. Things happen to him. That would send any other anybody else screaming back into therapy. so in so. In that sense, I think that on reaching people, little band. There's a lot of you in their less than the other books the other books I usually run about sixty true forty percent you're, the best advice ever gonna buy fiction was,

make your characters lives complicated. You know, write what you know make your characters lives complicated. So you take what's true and- and you say well, what can I do to make this complicated this this book many interesting there's- you know there's a lot of elements from my life but I never what happens in this book. I know head sessions. With my shrink in a mental hospital walter. Frank was in the met loss, but I never did that. In all my young, I never told my shrink about a a fantasy affair that I tried to carry out. And then the shrink went in does the same woman and had an affair with her. I thought gerda, so that was yeah. So so these things you make it a little as it was dark, yeah absolutely dog, it's absolutely because it's it's not interesting the other way. It's not! You know. This is a lot of people that you can read and

No, I always try to be trying to be funny, and and and in fact I try to be humble what I mean who your guys in terms of writers well philip wrong best richard yeats year, richard gates, I know history, you gotta, you gotta, I mean you, you need to read richard it's because that is what it or whether it is worthwhile revolutionary role which was made into not a good movie. That's his most famous novel easter parade, check it out a good school. But he is some anyone, here here's another connection. The character of a lane in seinfeld was not based on carefully liefer she is don't tell her that right, don't tell her that it was based on my a yeats richard yeats, his daughter who Larry went out with real area and droughts whose based on

Why and ranking news and richard yeats is the king of nineteen fifties and Sixtys broken suburban night alcohol lex. You know his eye. He picked up the the chief or torture were, but but but better than me. I because, while the bed and better than updike, I feel because, as I say, richard yeats, his books are meant to be read by the light of your oven, I mean they're, so depressing it and I don't know when I read the depressing stuff it it really. It lifts it so much richer values it gives it gives jews. A warm feeling and he has now he's guy, if you know yeats and were a full guy and but philip roth is my hero.

It's it's amazing that you find the time to do this, and this was obviously at some point, your dream, unrealized, and then you realized it to be a novelist it. Well put. I always thought that I didn't have the gene in me to write a long form, because I was writing jokes as writing scripts. I was, Stand up, I you sports rider to me. It was all in installments, Does that insecurity that, unlike the unlike harvard insecurity, that are only the right to an end, what happened was I just didn't think I, had it I wanted it badly. But I never had it and then, when I was a picked up a book when I was thirty, eight that called the artist way, which is a tremendous vietnam handbook in a working up yet, and that you really that changed my real amended on the millionth person whose life it change because it you know you these morning pages, which I still do, eighteen and a half years later in it.

Kind of blows off it's like blowing off the foam on the top of a beer. You just get all that wrap out in the morning and your mind- is a little more open house, you jug, writing absolutely a thousand percent really a thousand percent we just sit down for a period of time. You do. Three pages takes: twenty minutes have been doing it years in its very journalistic. It's like you know that cleaning, didn't come back. You know it's like that, but you just get that's too you get to see the other thing. It's very valuable because you get to see your hand, move you get to be a writer first thing when you wake up you dear by hand, yeah absolute- that we have to do that as you, the computer. You know people do, but I don't think it's the same thing. People do. Will do I didn't I journal during my divorce. Everyday could add. I had no choice, it seems right and had it ended that did that help you did that help you it helped, but reading it now very painful. Well really. I mean I read my stuff after the fact, so I

I'll just so. Here's the deal so I start doing the morning pages in august of ninety. Ninety five right and I'm doing them every day in october of ninety. Ninety five: I stop gambling as degenerate gambler. really in november of ninety ninety five I stopped drinking and in december of ninety ninety five. I start working on my first novel and I and that's that was I mean if directly, coral correlation, absolutely a thousand percent degenerate gambler, degenerate gambler. I say that and you can end up so I were on the radio, but you can see me smile. When I say that, because it's yeah I mean it was good yeah. Absolutely. That was your thing was my thing well, everything was my thing, but that was my. That was my daily thing. Did ever tell how what was the edge you reached? How much did you lose? Oh. I came that. Well, I remember I remember well, you know I used to have to settle up every week in an airy booking when my book and I'm remember, I hooked bookie. Oh my

he thirty nine ninety five iota. You know three thousand nine or not, and I said to him sit said you just make sure you bring the five right. Now get your point we had to borrow money here came I mean I came this close as you can I get well I mean I was under the so and I was one of those guys I mean I was when I was fifty thousand dollars and debt. Before I get the letterman job, this was my fantasy fit out. Would we were fifty thousand thousand debt, just again, but other stuff you know being caught You know you're right, and this was my plan my plan, fifty thousand dollars debt was to get hit by a cab to sue the cab company, the sickness player, not not for a minute you're supposed to do for a million and settle for sixty. No, it was sixty and a figure

you know, give the lawyer taste and then I would be. I would be straight worthy of you, your reasonable man, you're a memorial guy. That's right! The way you were you standing on the street, trying to figure out how to do it or didn't get it wasn't until years. It will it wasn't until about a year after I stop gambling that I actually got hit by a cab, and I mean it was entirely might have, and it was one of those things where I stepped off. The curb- and I felt it and as I am in the air, I'm thinking this is what must, be like to get hit by a cab, and then I landed on the the the hood and I was okay and the guy was shaken. either the cab driver goose beside, and I said, I'm ok and it was my fault and of course he'd never had anybody say that too yeah- and I was okay amazing this this. This insecurity street makes you a moral man. While I was good at well, whom I disagree with you yet, but are so wild outcome,

actuations on the new book, but I do want to get into your relationship- will letterman and because he so yeah he's a hero. Mine! Ok, You know you are that we are there when I did the panel last absolutely first time everyday panel. I know an irish there will you know we must have been very significant for you, because you don't remember me coming up in an and saying good job nor do I really the of course yeah and it was like cause. I'd done the show a few times. I never really thought he a registered me and but to sit there with him. Was a big deal, Look at him alone. Have that opportunity, and and and I get it and and I get it and he doesn't. You can tell him, as I have tell as I have told, many many times. You have no idea what it means to comics to come and sit with you. You have no idea what it means to them is uh, that's nonsense. It at all, and I said what a why what do I do

to do to convince you- it was mind blowing to me. It was like he was like. There is a high point in doing the charity. You know I was in. I don't want to brag about my acting career, but as in beer league and played the umpire and Artie Lange came on the show after a beer league, and he was He told the stories and he said to me biggest thrill of my career yeah yeah. Did you their cross from him cause you're fighting with this single of like dave, letterman's right air routes. he's right there and as an having been a guest on the show to promote my books and working him every day and then all of a sudden sitting in the chair. I get it because it's for me because the thing and I dunno you know if I don't off this, this heat you, but the when I'm sitting in the chair and I'm a guest on the show- and I look at him- I he is so comfortable and I am so not comfortable

and I thought how am I am not even going to compete as as in a in conversation with this, because this is completely is it so heightened too because, like you know, you are just talking by, but there it's almost out of body variants in the moment- because you wanted just talk, but then he realized like it's like this is his world here. This is dave, universe here and there a year on television is just so like his comfort in in the face of all that is, it is astounding right and in its become much more so in the last ten years, because its heart surgery, a thousand percent because now he doesn't- he doesn't care if the? If this, oh, runs over and has to be edited down. I'm he cares, but he cares more about finishing on that he started. He cares more about the connection, oh good, knew. Why I mean it was always it was. I think it was all.

ways there, but I think that I he got warmer a thousand. I agree absolutely and I think that he yeah I just now he realized the job wasn't wasn't going away and this is what he loved to do an dumb. You know a future a regular conversation with He asked the questions it just in a regular conversation that nobody else and there's a lot of times. Just during the day were you know he will be talking about something that I feel pretty knowledgeable about and he'll. Ask me question and I'll go. Excuse me for a second and then I gotta to go to the computer to get an answer form at one. Second, and now, if you like it, I find it to be mysterious and that you know you hear things here and there that you know he's he's insulated doesn't like to talk to people he. You know ye, no easy. easy, not accessible so he's a well cookie

and by you do you consider you consider my friend guy socialize. No, we don't. We will very, I mean maybe a couple times a year. You know go with him somewhere where he wants to go, but we don't we we should, squash for why we I mean, but we don't dumb. I think that we get it so intense. You know I work form and we have the friendship at the show that amounts to it's one of those things but I'll take it in and gotta be the guy. It's been a long answer, one other guy now well under on a well steve. Young has been their start a year before I did so he's the right of the spinelli the longest. and we have a lot of people being barbara, Gaines and jude Brennan have been this is the morning show. Do you know that we did a thing when, when he was thirty years in late night, which was two thousand and twelve, we did top ten and it was the top ten longest serving staffers. I didn't come close to making that

and I spent one guy that had been there forever. The comedy writer go jerry mulligan, no, he retired in two thousand, for he had been there a long time and he had I've been on the morning show, but I was thinking pursuant to this to my book about well, am I gonna die in dave with my book, so I was seeing a shrink years ago and- and it was one of those things no wait. Wait when you see a shrink you're a you're, not supposed to know anything about them and they're not supposed to talk about themselves, so at the time was about ninety ninety five. Ninety ninety six in CBS had been sold to westinghouse and the guy who was in charge of westinghouse was a guy named Michael, be jordan yet and Dave was upset that the guy had not called him so for a week or maybe to every night behind the desk. He would say: listen I've decided

the fight, the sky, and he would said so so. One time I come into my to my shrink appointment and, and sometimes we were talking about the shown but most size. We had to talk about the stuff that you gotta talk about in therapy. That's way much earlier than letterman year and I sit down and my shrink says: listen bill before we begin and I just uh now you know I I don't watch the show, but the other night, and I was- late and I happen to have well- was dave, challenging his boss to a fight and then in the night, that situation? If you ever been in it were all the son you're the therapy right and then, You have two cities: airbus, ok, go well? What do you mean fighting, let's talk about

and that was you know, and and that's the that's, the effect that that's the effect that this guy has on everybody and at first after when he announced his retirement, and you know every day people were coming up to me and saying: what are you going to do it s like an and their worry was, did not seem very real and I was like look. We got two hundred shows left a worry about that after the two hundred shows it might have been thinking about that. But then it took another person. A point out to me. Look this isn't just happening to Dave, and this isn't just happening to all of us that work there. This is happening to Everybody! That's watched him for thirty three years, so when people say to me, what are you gonna do they're, just saying what am I gonna? Do? So now why I'll have any conversation with people that do you think he

you think they're like in my mind a mic like he did in my mind, it's like he he waited till jail at first. I I think that absolutely had to we I mean it was you know it's the tea? Ok, oh, it's the guy that can answer the bell. Say what I said to him one day this is a few months ago. This is before the announcement, and this is after so, let's say, let's say it's April, sir J had left in February and it's during a break, and I look at him and I said is it me or does the air just smell sweeter with J, not on it? Any gis Little corner of his mouth, a came off a man he's done some amazing stuff. You know- and I watched him at the beginning when I was in college and I the waking handled that blackmail attempt was one the most. easing things I've ever seen in my life.

Well, I mean just to come clean and just fuckin. Just got that guy, I thought it was great. Well, you know, I think that dumb it was it was. I remember it was sort of an it was just an odd day, and you know you wonder, how we would handle it any handled it. You know he got out in front of it and then, of course, in this we did to shows that day. So we did it in the first show. The second show Larry David is the lead yes, and he had been there early and heard. The first is that one of our work into euros Why this day yeah that's hilarious, it is like, but so you eat, he has always treated you well and he treats his staff well and he's. Actually it, but but, but think of,

Well, I mean you know a lot of people that are famous that have had jobs a long time it some you think about that job then saying it's insane job and think about lets. You I'll just choose this new. Think about having to interview jasmine guy twice a year for thirty years and I'm thick and I I used jasmine guy because she probably use the publicity just as an example of somebody that the people that you have to talk to and he makes it seem like he is interested and if he may it makes us see and if he is not interested, he turns it so that it's compelling to watch right yeah. the purse, so its owner is sometimes is great. When he's like a little irritated, how will you let me to be more self, but well I've often set about him that he's the only he's only guy and I challenge any but a challenge.

So another name he's the only guy in the history of television whose mood has been chronicled on television now Roseanne nobody crazier than roseanne. You know she's been a guest of the state a few times, but you never watch on old episode of roseanne and thick oh yeah yeah. This is when she was having a fight with a network no because she's doing her show and she's locked in that's the thing about Dave? Is that, as a you know, maybe as a as a guy not accessible but as like as a human being public but presently accessibility, I go see lives. There he's upset yeah, that's right, he lives there and that's. What's it some it It's amazing the watch and end the longer the longer, I'm there, but the more. I understand how difficult the job is. His job is rooted it because you know what you know.

I consider myself a car, you know you're a comic in you think I could go go out and tell a moment. I got some stuff here and then I could talk to people measure yeah. You could do it for a night or to night you or or away ever what about thirty three. I mean what about that here and an dumb and just where an end he's always been. You know the first one in the last one out. He people ask me a guy asked me about you notice. He still like to do it. Well, I can tell you: is I get down to the dressing room at two to forty five and then he comes up and we go to the model and there's a there's two two flights of stairs you they had managua had run right may and Steve young there.

and so I am waiting for him and he he sixty seven and he runs up those two flights of stairs every day he's to run him all. The initiatives are made the first time I did. I actually saw him and you like mid run. It was we already when he runs yet he runs the whole hallway and then he runs the two flights of stairs at the end. So forget that he sixty seven and can do that. Forget that, but that's he's running up those stairs cause he wants to start is day and when I see him stop running up those stairs, then I'll say Well, maybe you don't want to do this. You know yeah. Well, let's go over this one other thing, which is: if I'm not mistaken the night that they pulled hicks is set. You did it right. You did this alright, I am that foot out and I absolutely and indicted set up for people who don't know bill. Hicks Dennis annually is very controversial and you know he was censored and

has been allowed at you. I think this stored. The true story is probably out there, but by dead they pulled. This said he react do it in lars com in new york magazine end, but you were the guy that that they played your set right. So here's so it! Let me, let's just back up for some adrian. My wife adrian tolls is working, in in in in Houston, where she's to work all the time. She sees hicks and she says to him. Listen if you come to new york, I will get you seen by the letterman people and you'll get on and she had set only. Is that the one with the person who is emo philips and it happened for him so hicks says okay, so she calls Morton and Morton again returns her which never happen and says you member, would with emo I got another guy and so Morton comes it now. J, of course, has spent the last twenty.

He's telling everybody we give idea. You know like everything in show business days idea, but my wife got hicks the letterman show and he did it. I think eight or nine times it NBC and he was one of the there were about five comics that work, the shore lot him and jake and dumb often lie now. I cant remember the other guys, but Wang cod are used to do this and am at Margaret smith, the peg smith and done so. Now we go to CBS and it's our twenty fifth show it's our fifth weak stephen right was the first comic. How to be on the new shock to be on the new show and hickses booked and- and I urge friends I you know- I open form- I did dumb when he tapped his first album. I open Form- and you know I know for lie- was very fond of him.

During the audience guy, you either new york for a couple years, member that we gotta get out of here. They all that was the aid and we would down a carolines, and yet he was great and any would work the improper and again the commitment to the material so before the show and on the other did to shake down, shows where they tests the equipment and audience in all things, and I was on the second shakedown show doing stand up, and I was still

show you I was still a stand up then near was was probably one of the last sets I ever did and you know went great and, and that was it so now, here's hicks and I go backstage before the show and he's got and ll never forget his he's wearing a yellow button down shirt and a yellow tweed like a herring bone jacket completely, and I said what what is this. He said this is the new friendlier bill. Hicks and I said all care. I say now he comes out and the set is thirty. Nine notices. Ninety three, this is october. First, nineteen irene securing right and nobody knows ok, nobody knows he dies in december, so he comes on and he gets some laughs. Some big laughs up front.

anne, but the set is it's not like I hicks set on it just odd, and some of the choices are r r odd and it's not it's, not the ball out produced right, I mean, I know it was what well it was yet did this that the step that was selected probably should not have been selected. That's the problem is that that that the set was not built to his adventure was a segment producer. I don't know, I don't remember who was back then and it, but you know he does he does well, but there were a couple of odd moments and knowing him as I do and not of him, but I don't think anything of it and then he goes and dave was laughing at a couple of stuff, a couple of things up front and in the sits down with David as a little panel with Dave, and then Dave says: hey

Luck with your mail, that's the last thing Dave says to him because of the because of the abortion joke. Where, because of that, the the gay it was a, I think there were a couple of. I bought edwards a couple of things, so that's it and, and I go over to him backstage and he he said well. How do you think that when, and I say it went Dave was laughing and he was a caroline set weak and I said, almah come see a caroline cause, we're friends and I love Colleen and yelled, and then he was going down a west point near so now I come upstairs. Jeff stillman was a writer on the shown. You know, Jeff and Jeff. Very strong, comic and Jeff is waiting for me and he says what was in their they're old friends him and hicks. He says what was that I said: oh jeez, so it's not just me because I thought it was odd and there was a the the for the very first line

It was very happy for him that lets huntin, kill, billy re cyrus right very happy, not not of not like him here to do something like that and done so Oh great, I'm not the only one that thought it was a little beneath him at men. I'm up in my office and I do whatever I do and then I come down and an ice in its dave and Bob Morton and some cbs people- and I say goodbye cause Friday night, and Dave says: hey you watch the show tonight and you'll be infer. Surprise and I say shit was. I caught on camera which is to happen as a warm up guy needed. You didn't want to be caught on camera here and he says yes, some like that.

What I didn't know was that they were discussing that they were gonna cut, my shakedown show performance in and they did not make that decision. Really late, as a matter of fact would people don't know, is that the open announce that the ship was rolled in live at eleven thirty and dave did bill Wendell open announce day. staying there eleven thirty, so they cut in my arm and an end that's what happened and nay they went to hicks. I mean you know em, you know people were wrong. I don't think that he was told the truth takes, but I think they also were very anxious to get him back on the show soon was the reason I think the reason was. I think the reason was that

we were only on the air for five weeks and we just did not. The show just did not want all this controversy so from aggressions. Well, I think it was. I think there were a couple yeah, the mayor. Whatever whatever was they just thought. We just didn't they just didn't want to take that on the christian right might have put. I made yeah random. They just did not did not want that, but they told him they said listen. This is our fault, because the set should have been or produced in there's other staff in this in that and andor and work we're going to have you on real soon, but nobody knew he was sick. Nobody knew he was dying and so, of course that's what happened and- and I think that bill

I think bill kinder ran with it. I don't think, did you know she? No, I don't think that he was. You know. I think that he was really hurt, done by because he knew it might have been one of his last set on that ship, a thousand absolutely and so that that happened, and then you know it was some you know became a mystery over all of these and and back then we used to get. We had these huge monster ratings and, of course, Nobody ever knew that it was me that went on and then I dunno how many years later dave had his mother. I know I was asking about that that that was. we something that went Dave's decision? Was it eating at him? Yes, it must have been. It was at an end and that how many years waiters is more than a decade o. Absolutely it was an and bill hickses mom said: do

am I knew once you had a son that you would come said this to him Did she there on the air? Yes, I came and, and he you know, and he righted the right now I didn't. I dont know that's going on. I never do I just work on my. Let him run the set though it would be an interesting, though, I did that run a day that night, oh good dave, says I'm embarrassed, because this stuff is is funny now, as it was then, and for me to think that was controversial. and I'm about no, they ran it. They ran the whole set now it now just because you know why,

here. I'll just tell you about me. I had no idea that hicks his mother was going to be until the day before and I didn't think anything of it and then, of course I relived all this and I felt awful that I was cut in because I was friends with him, but Colleen said he was thrilled. It was you I felt very guilty, but even though it was not my decision and I went up to hicks his mother, like I came up to you after she finished, and I said hi, my name is bill chefs she said, I know who you are and she said bill's very fond of you and of course it was every

I could do not to break down and cry because a you know it, but I was I I like to think that maybe with some closure for everybody on that, but that's what happened. That's what happened, and I am sorry that I got that it went sideways and, and he became this sort of sense, a queue of this censored persecuted a martyr and it was it was it to me as a comic. It was a set that was just not well produced and it was not well if thought out, and it was not. He didn't close with his strongest right bit. It was a, it was a it was. A conf of you know is a bunch of events. It was, it was unusual, they didn't want controversy, ryan, wasn't strongest, set rind of the fact that he passed on so far. We after yes sort of your amplify well as they did it. I find

things interesting they did this documentary many many years ago in day was on and he said well, bills We use a favourite of asia and his last appearance on our show was made more awed by the circumstances of his de facto got back on, and the thing that I found amazing has there been many books written about hex many books in many books written about this night and of all those books? I was only interviewed once and because I didn't give play to the narrative yeah. It was really never run in that book. What in Kevin's or or cynthia's, I think cynthia yeah she didn't interview she. No, she interviewed right. She interviewed me, but Kevin didn't and because I You know I wasn't yeah man, he was you know it was. You know

the ball and he was you know. Did you know the set should been demand shut him day, and so that was, but that was it, but I'm glad I got the chance to two to tell back story. You know, there's a guy he's a newspaper writer and any musician in north carolina, John dawson. so you know what I like about bill hicks. Is there there's this guy s? Is he saying these brilliant things and these deep things in these hilarious and he sounds like me- yeah yeah yeah night- was a thing about higgs did great Chinese that use a good guy. He was a great guy air. Will thanks bill good luck with the book was a great talk while they are, I mean I, I loved it an end. You know, god bless you for for having me out here and it's always. I love talking about stand up because you know did stand up if you get two guys at an airport that have never met to comics

a three hour lay over and they find out there both comics that three hours- why I never saw a scumbag disguised screwed me to see that one guy what he did, the fact that there is greater thanks so much Ass cool as good conversation alike? Are gonna get what else go to them? He, your father can get the app you want upload. The app for free then upgrade to premium get all of us possessed get all those bargain episodes leader. Advice emerge. Christmas is coming up. I got no plan for this

The the the it is

the rest in peace, Hubert someone, and now it's been awhile but yeah, bomer lives