« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 554 - Rhett Miller

2014-11-26 | 🔗
Rhett Miller was tagged with the "alt" label early in his career, as in alt-country. But as Rhett explains to Marc, he was actually emo before emo was a thing, and that brooding, angst-filled teenager in Texas fought through some truly dark times in order to emerge as an accomplished singer-songwriter.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Like guy I will do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies with the pluck and hears, what the forget about its wits focus: woke. Focus how to us how with it difficult day for some people, I'm not I'm not talking everybody right now Some of you may be thrilled to be happy. thanksgiving with family, this be a high point. You might might be an opportune. For you and your kids to see their grandparents are aunts and uncles in their cousins. You and that might be the case and it might be a terrifying and and taxing emotionally taxing experience. But look I'm. not gonna begrudge anybody a wonderful day Their family today
But I would like to speak to the people that are entering this situation with not the best outlook. Or disposition, or with good expectations, yeah right to reach out to them right now, because search for I'm people you know who you are. This is gonna, be a fuckin nightmare. Is gonna, be a nightmare. I will Look let's give thanks will give thanks, but man we some of us. We're just gonna have to get through this shit in my right, not necessarily talking about me. You I've made some peace with the situation. I'm ok, I'm gone. better. It's only taken me about your twenty years too, be ok, but you never know man. You never know entering this situation. Let me do little business here. First but hang out, hang first, I want to say that on the show red miller the the wonderful
alt country rocker. Is that what we call him? The old ninety seven's his his band is also denser so a work nice guy, a phenomenal artist. he's going to hang out and play a song or two I let's get back the task at hand. Team talking the emotionally volatile a Kennedy emotionally sensitive, I'm talking to the emotionally traumatized the scarred to the people with resent it's against mommy and daddy or mom, and pop or or mother and father or or whoever might be a grandparents god forbid there, the troublemakers but a big day. Man we got, we got it, we got suit up emotionally. Am I right now here's a here's. My pep talk, I'm improvising this one. So, okay, so look I dunno where you are right now may be you're already there, maybe you're in a maybe you've you've taken a walk to listen to wtf to get out of the fucking house for a few minutes. Maybe
turkey's in the oven. Maybe shit is already cooking, maybe verde out a fight with your mother, your file, they're your brother, your sister, your cousin, who had a b c d, europe, whatever picket made, god, maybe You'D- you maybe you're the one who just lost their shit and and is now running out of the house taken a breather in the cold air taken in we're Grew up may be taken in where we have something very familiar to you, maybe you're in the car you gonna drive around a little bit. Hey look there's raised by liquor when you're in high school. I wonder that guy still there. Oh hey, I wonder if my friends still alive. I wonder I wonder I couldn't still be working at that place. Could he maybe I'll go by their vow shit, thanksgiving, nothing's, open, nothing's, open who's gonna drive around into life your better and then I'll go back home in every the body be like hey, you feel better and you'll be I'll bet soil ass. My shit, I let's get back get the fantasy. Let's get it
the nuts and bolts of it. How we can have a good day to day right will. First, got open your heart and realise at your grown person right if you are wrong person? Most people with my shore grown people are whatever they gonna, do, whatever buttons are going to push there there? the buttons nurse, no reason that they should work anymore. So I guess what I'm suggesting mrs bold disk active buttons before he going realise where they are, and then you know maybe push him yourself a couple of times to make sure there not registering and just shut up be closed. Just I would go on on manual. I need no buttons, just trust your instincts, trust your hard on this. I just your turn the whole panel walk in and realize first hour I maybe you're pissed off about something that happened a long time ago and just ongoing never going to be let go of. It may be
it just about the cycles of emotional chaos. It happened when you gone. We all know that it's very easy to get around your parents and act like a fuckin child and it's gonna happen a little bit. Just pick pick pick pick pick pick good moments for it. Maybe make it be positive. who take a breath, take a breath if you're cook don't hurt yourself, you know, focused stay focused, don't panic, if you need people at the kitchen get the fuck out of the kitchen if mama intruding on your you know. Maybe your pie say look can a pie. You know you can do your work over there, but just stay out of my fucking pie, mom whatever, cases. If you have it, that enjoy sitting around watching sports and it's not your thing. Let him do it for go in the other room. Talk to the ladys of outside. I don't know what happens, I'm trying to do is tell you to have a nice time and be grateful that
if still around is still around. Even if they drive you fucking crazy. The one thing you're going to notice when you get back, there is everybody's. Getting older you're getting older, kids are growing up, parents are getting older, may be grandma store around whatever it just said. There's no a lot of time, folks not a lot of time with, good families or bad families are to trouble families. This is not a lot of time. And god forbid, your resentment so deeply. You just want em all the die I forbid you in that place and still going on for thanksgiving, but for anybody else remember, finite amount of time not a lot of time. If you can get some clarity, can get some resolve. If you can some shit go this thanksgiving. Do it do it if you can make it right and get some acceptance of use? in your family, is a great opportunity if you're with money, people that are avoiding their families. Well, just now nice time then you may.
choice, I bids the right choice and all I'll beat I long for that shitty dish it so and so makes for those you there. This doesn't resonate with well good for you the great thanksgiving we can get through it, though the people in talking to we're gonna be all right. I guess I'm retell to this stuff. To myself too, because I wasn't gonna go there are some issues and liking I've to cook, and you I was. If the hell do I have to cook for everybody? I just there were some issues, and I was I I was. I haven't been in a couple of years, but. I realize, like you know, let's get an old man no, we don't see each other enough unless you do unless you down the street. That's your choice. I know they help with the kids so we're gonna talk to her. Renault earn a minute. And I just want you to take a breath me.
Take a breath? I know she's annoying, he's annoying their annoying. I know it. I know you're about it, you're on your ear, ear, you're on your last nerve. But you know what you get to go home and Theoretically, everybody loves each other right. So thanks thanksgiving and lead doctor and lower now for you with the old ninety seven yeah We too are in this new record that we do not know whether I have right here most messed up. What are you twelve albums in this? tenth. Ninety seven's album and then I've made five solo rick.
It's including the one I made in highschool. How do you looks at the one he made in highschool yeah, which is embarrassing, and it's embarrassing? It's only out and we made a thousand copies of the cd yeah and I signed and numbered every one and and and I you know, I had a british acts and what can I say? Did you really seventh generation texan kid in dallas, but in all the people? I listen to our excellent funny. Man, David Bowe, ways are you there now Intentionally I the music- I like that, that's what you do it's like. When you play, I mean when you play guitar you're gonna Are you gonna? Do somebody else the pop string? like I guy like I am I going to land somewhere between Anderson and peter green nice. If I can, with my limited understanding, so what was first recorded, which is you just well, my his player in the old lady seven's produced it. He was. He was like a few years seven years older than me, and we had girlfriends. It were friends we had introduced and he gave me my
first gig opening for his vampire cowboys, hey ot cowboy is such a great psychedelic band in Dallas yeah, and this is what's his name. What's murray hammond you've been within that long, yeah yeah, since I was fifteen years old and he's a couple of years older? I guess he just he's turning fifty in two days. It's always like one, forty three so he's seven years old, oh wow, so he kind of took me under his wing in a way he DA taught me how to do. Gigs taught me how to smoke. Pot taught me if you need that guy yeah, it's important. What's, okay, so let's go back you're grown up in what suburban, dallas big time suburban ass. I was kind of on the outskirts of the the like a rich section, because my grandfather had a shit on a money like generation? So you you you're one of those sort of like the texas, aristocratic family will, but it's kind of funny, because my grandfather managed to squander the entire fortune before I was even born? Was it oil born or why exile tat dial miller's were textile family and when they make like fabric year, in fact, I think
Most of the money came from colleague profiteering during the wars they would sell. You know uniforms to the government when contracts and may lotta. My big dallas money had the biggest house across from the highland per country club, but then in nineteen, fifty four my grandfather, who is always head of his time, decided he would by professional football team so new york yankees football team. Where is he about a year and they moved to die. And became the dallas texans yeah lasted less than one season and it was the disaster that was it. That's where he lost all his money out in football team. Who did you lose money and frickin Dallas texas, How can you do I mean he made a big jump? They was of. It was a vanity project yeah and in a way I think he shot himself in the foot. He did some stuff that I'm sure he would undo if he can it may Alan I do I know I'm a little. He died when I was like seventeen and would your old man do you hear still a lawyer we're here
We, the catalonia, the did a lot of lawyer like attacks and I like you, exist twinge. I have a lot of it, but I hear it ah and when I get off tour with the guys, it's a little more kind of guitar player can yeah like those What's his name can the m ten in ok, so you damn lawyer, the lawyer in now. He does all this. Like you know, good guy stuff helping out people are debt collectors are harassing them and stuff like that. Evicted, so he's he's he's come full circle. yeah, he made some bread needs and he's given back now. No, he never made any bread. Oh he didn't. He was always a goer yeah he's he used to tell us that every third generation makes the money. That's what you tell us, though, is that on you now then yeah. Actually, I'm gonna have to much pressure. My brothers doing pretty. Well, though, older brother, younger, I'm, the oldest, is a year and a half younger, he is a c o f, o above, like I'm, falling the financial gay kind,
he's the guy that says: why are you spending so much money? Yeah he's gonna pull pulled back a little bit. We should acquire this competitor. Yes, that is that oh really yeah and you don't know what kind of company it is. It's a marketing. It's a marketing company that mostly deals with like churches and greek organizations like fraternity, can kind of stuff. Oh yeah he's a he's, a super sweet guy and super smart. You know, I guess our lifestyles on paper seem very different, but we're not all that different. When you look pretty good genetically, you seem to be holding up pretty well for a fucking rock guy. I mean you know to me you're. Maintaining your healthy good looks your heralds. This is the diet, known? I did it put a couple, a highlights in this year out, as they were you not not shying away from the gray. Well, I haven't had to deal with it. I don't I imagine I might go van- style, and that guy come on man. You country, guys disposed to age. Our do my my base. Players do in it. For me, you know you don't have rightly made here really is not weird man.
It is to think how long you been doing this, but I d really he started so fuckin young. That's why you're younger than most of the guys in the band, then oh yeah, I'm by far the well oh philips, barb drummers of only three years older than me right. So so what happens to your grown up in taxes? You got money, that that's a whole other, while your family does a little bit. That's a whole other thing in texas, texas money is. There is something that it could be obnoxious and contend to be obnoxious. Dude. You kidding me, growing up in highly park and entered the weird thing was that we had soared the trappings. There was the things that fell through and when all the money disappeared, there's a good house, the I turned into a slightly less good. How right I mean I can a trading down, but staying in the highland park school system, which my brother and sister went to russia and its not evil, but I mean you know where it is dick cheney live in. Where does george Bush? They all knew how the union there, the air
through his museum is an island. Marquise museum is a block away from the house that I ended up. Growing came imagine what's in the museum, george bush george w, not just not w w w museum. His prey presidential museum. What's he got in there some baseball, paraphernalia and picture books? I wonder: what's in there Go in there just out of curiosity Maybe I will so they see somebody you see around now I mean I don't dare later. I think anyway, yeah and I haven't lived there for ten years. I dunno god, I haven't lived there for a long time. Ninety seven, I moved to l a so what we do and as a cave, when you start playing the guitar twelve and her my fingers too bad. So I stopped you ever get joint paint. Yeah, and then instant on this tour. I hyper extended my right knee and so I've gotta sprained with stage antics
I do too and I'm such an idiot like forty three years old and I climb up if it's a good gig and I feel bad now for people that saw gigs where I didn't do this, but if it's a good gig, yet at the end of the night we start our final song timebomb. So as the final song, the encore and I'll climb up, the drum riser and then climb up on top of my amp on the drum riser, and then you know when the first big hit the song. it's a jump is high. I can't off the amp, and sometimes because some of these risers are pretty high. My answer was the same level, but right you know, I'm catch him like well through the air and then landing it in. chicago. I landed it with my knees, locked Well me woke up in the middle of the night that night and just felt like what's wrong with me. I just got I just felt pain from the same lot and I just got hit with the pain yeah, but okay, so when you're twelve years old and you play and then you're like in junior high. When did you cut that first record with a with a murray yeah? I I was sixteen that came out when I was seventeen and what was it a country's on
well. That was when I had the british accent. I know, but I thought maybe the whoa it was. It was exactly the same kind of songs. I write now it was really just strong, stroma folky, you know Well, definitely one foot in the pop world, one foot in, like the I grew up, loving like folk music, so my coup, like the kingston trio like surreal square, to get that shit, my parents, my mom, your mom had kingston trio albums. She was a singer. She was always inquires. Her dream was to be a backup singer for Berry man allow or somebody like really your mom's dream- was to be a backup singer near here. She get like good in that document. Twenty feet from stardom. That's, I think it's a what pressure gig, where you could probably really enjoy yourself. I am probably near not even that will pressure him. You gotta have the goods will sheryl crow, did it for years before she went out on her own. She was like Michael Jackson, backup singer a really. I had no idea do you know, share okra. She can voice again to do stuff with her she's super nice yeah. You ve got to do a lot of stuff with a lot of different people cause I
it's weird musicians. I even if I listened to a couple of records I really liked the musician. It doesn't use all of a sudden if you're. If I got to talk to you, then- guy, let's see what they ve been up to mike of I've, missed everything I'd their idea that entire career, this nine hundred records and I know that one will is to see you largo all the time when we were both at the old largo tattled? Hang out, I owe you are part of that Yeah you ve always been sorted. There's a couple you guys had seem to be around the compares like you ted amy manned nikko case. There's some people that seem d kind of run in the same circle, yeah yeah, like the maybe the most inner circle with John Brian's or the and John is largo guy can said Adam think I really know John, like kind of like cause, in new york and come into argo. Occasionally I never locked into the you like pilot, kids and golf and act as in those guys were there all the time and they knew John like I just John. Is this like? Oh he's that gene
sky merryland needs to go out with I just. I know him as a mythic personality, he's a myth to me here. that way, even with people that are friends with them, I mean he's he's so he exists. in some other sphere You know, and now, as far as I know, he's totally on the backward schedule, John brain, what does that mean wakes up at nine o clock at night? It's breakfast goes in Well, he's like a savant like up like a pot music survives on a spectrum yeah of some kind. There that's will always my feeling of it. Wasn't them when he when he produced dumb. He produced one. The Fiona records right, yea worked on one and then produced and and then he produced a couple and then the Conny west record. That was like it. When I heard he did, that is what the fuck do. I went.
The studio when they were working on that him and tom biller his engineer at the time, who's super great and they were like come on down Connie's out here, it's super fun, so I went in and they were. It was real we're kind. He is not here. He has finally yeah, it was real. Weird was all quiet and dark and they're like being super serious. and I hung out for a wild, is watching and work and finally to what you they come down. He said it was fun with one. Unlike will actually it is here now, but he's in the balkans, taking a nap with a lady, standing on the street shake lodged by you? Wanna come in here, my don't be so. Every wind up in the vocal with five feet away from us, go going down the air as like? That's that's why I got it. As does yeah. It's rock and roll right there or hear popper. What just it is, what it is yet will wait because You always had that of a real pop sensibility, obviously from when you're in high school. I guess it's in there seems to be. I know there is obviously cross over. We did you know you
of the old ninety seven, your band, but there's a tone there. That you honor, that's a traditional. Almost I've pushed them. There were a couple of records, where I I really wanted us to try out. weber and ninety nine. I was listening to a bunch of balanced sebastian, which is I dunno. If you know them, they're scottish we had a fey, the guy called fail out, think people when they say that they usually making your table. They are they right, but they would have strings and they have all. I can write up real love yeah, but I like it because it was fucking pretty merely clever words and cool maladies. What a into it! So I pushed the band on fight songs to try and be just a little as it is, we were coming from a world the meal. We made a record for bloodshot records, which is, I know, there's were they they were pushing the term honky scrawny at the time When I was there, I don't want to be involved in anything that could be described as honky strong. It's. What an old country Italy became the tag that people awaiting about about what? What country really was. Is that I don't think any of you
necessarily realize what you were really up against in the sense that even likes the euro and in those guys at you, I think, early on CD rom in by my mind, what he was doing as old country earlier, then probably what you guys we're doing. become mainstream country, but yet still outside use off the grid and if you're off the fucking grid, in that nashville sidney of power, political, waging. Where do you land, I mean? How do you build an audience. Well. For a while Nashville country was kind of likes. What steve rural was doing back on guitar town yet, and but I don't know, you are, if you, my fingers, defiling not on the pulse of this, but I've mediately been hip to what's happening there a country that is its becoming like hip, hop like real white red kind, a hip, hop where these, oh, my god and the product placement in the end, there's like just a checklist of things. You gotta talk about your your truck. Your boots, your gun,
You mean there's like even broken heart, you you had a name: what brand of beer you drink, what brand of truck you drive, but it's in, but the songs will be like driving down the will mean that their like straight up hip hop songs were in it with death, leopard guitars on them induced him come raising diego colored bro country. But if you go out and check it out, what's happening, it's it's nightmarish. It's like post, apocalyptic, really bad, but like when you guys were starting out I'd, never stood what the fuck the problem was with mainstream? I guess it was a mainstream country, but it always seems to be that there were some real kind attention between established order, Nashville in what was being called all country, which is actually more country than natural, is producing at that time. Yes, you feel that yeah and it's funny now you look beggar nashville is producing at the time with in it seems really kind of sweden tame and comparison between Israel poppy. We, we ve had a hard time in nashville as attend to play in
Nobody ever thought. We'd get air play on country, radio in re I was never even accounting, but that's all politics is gonna, be, as did the songs or fuckin there sure there too much. There's the thing a member on electoral was trying to push to rock radio and or you know even aaa, which is kind of a sweeter milder format right, but you know they would. L, I'd have and bigwigs had electric come to me and say why the assist of have to be so sophisticated, but what does it mean minor cords exactly a bridge? I don't know why you guys go off the chart with that sweet soundings sad cord yeah. You know we gave just keep the one four five region there, where we the sand the turn around and I think they are dying at the lyrics, tell you. I think I was all too tricky for them out too clever. What am I
I do man. Well, no, you gotta be a poet you can you can't just all be you know flat out. I mean there's a lot of great turns of phrases in country, music and old country, but I mean you know if you get a little elaborate or yellow sophisticated, like they're people they're just I've in their trucks. Anal wanna thank yeah. I know the country was never won. I even thought of her. Second, I can crack. I did wish you played country music. Really I I know that's true. but then from Dallas, but like the old country thing is something I've thought about a lot, because it's been my world for a long time if the beatles their very first kind of records that skiffle stuff. If that came out in our world today, they beheld country, if Tom patties first stuff came out, they beheld hell, yeah mystery men, yeah great, and I got now god there is some great country songs in their first couple, petty records early yet elm. Amazing in the funny thing is now there it's sort of the print everywhere. I go like all the bands I see playing are bands that are basically doing kind of just alt country, some version of roots, americana rock right, and it's awesome like for when we were doing it
then ninety three, when we started it was the grungy era in oh- and I remember a big part of why we started was marine. I would do in these rock bands save so fuckin fail in oh and you in yeah yeah. I was fronting rats exploding and buzz, and these terrible terrible. But what were you? I was the lead singer, guitar it wasn't what exactly? What was he and play the electric tarn murray was in and out of him because he he was frustrated by it and my problem was out what was the music like? There was It was a lot like what I do now, but instead of swinging was real straight in india. There there was some mid tempo swing step. It was alive like sludge, mid tempo rockers rail, with kind of clever word right whatever yet, but idea was out where they were because you pretty good at a pop hook. You media, I thought I thought there are some great proxies. Yeah yeah. I didn't have enough experience to you like a pop hook. Dude, I love a tune minute, pop song with a couple, a really juicy hooks, the best
and that's why? That's! That's really the model that has fuelled no radio heads forever. There did you buy these big. Do you feel like you were you ve been looked over. That's funny, who s there, I did a thing with Paul of tompkinsville that we do a wits taping. The idea of John, yet such a great show an right before walked on stage? I guess he had just come from a radio visit in which he and I am a visit array of physics up. You know a promo aviation area which one I think a lot about how comic like you, do a lot of road worker in Paul. Does too your lives are a lot like my life, but I'm not always onto it. The ninety seven's really most. The way I make my money is to go out with one guitar in with two guitars by myself, yet play a gig. So it's a lot like what you do and so I'm sure that you get sent. You know you gotta go to the station and early beginner and you do it, it's fine, the areas but support
just done one of those and we're standing side stage in St Paul, and he looks over to me- and he goes to this radio guy just asked me the question that that like every other radio and asks me do they ask you this. He does. A lot of the people that you came up with a really successful now. How does that make you feel and I get that all the time only well, you know I don't know if I would. I don't think I framed it that one! No, you didn't you didn't yours was, but no because you I get that a lot. You feel overlooked well yeah overlooked, is, is sorted different because it's one, those weird things, because no one can deny the power of the music and, helen and end. There's plenty of songs that you've done on your own and with the old ninety. and centre right. Well, how welcome that's, not huge get, and it's it's it's overlooked in the sense that sometimes just fuckin time aiming where the fuck knows? Who makes it decision, or why happens if someone had the equation of how to solve that. You know we'd all be making a million dollars. I know
to a major, my dog. He has this theory. It is at all with that. If you you're on tv. You should get a million dollars for it if your faces on even matter anyway. I know it's impossible to know. What's gonna make up the most in number of people go at what the fuck is that what you're? What you're torment? theory. Oh my god, you that's it view. If you apparent tv should get a million dollars right, that's that's what I'd work. I sadly unable think they do things that in four years I was on tv a lot and areas that wasn't. That was the only one who was making real you you go on. Letterman is a band. What are you guys you? Maybe you get enough device of dinner when the oily already good payday, those those because the bands- because it and after I like they- have to pay you a certain amount of right by but as a bay and they pay everybody a certain amount. Everybody gets the ethnic minimum, a minimum, it's weird like it. The lead singer gets the most drummer gets. These did such of the holy
is hierarchy, a really of how it works and what about them? The music away about music licensing like if they replied? How does outwork aids that thing where every time it airs ascap goes out and beat somebody up and gets blue they mom. Yet let's say I thank god for ascap. Ask s great: it's fucking great man. I mean they have one now for a satellite play for comics called sound, exchanging eye on that yeah of course yet day, and that's where I get it and it's like, while free money. How do I make more money, one, I'm sleeping yeah, exactly what that's? What tom waits had the great line that I still think about all the time he was speaking it set by southwestern camp in between science and its pianos I got into this business, so I can right a song and then say fly away and go make daddy some money, yeah! Alright! So wait! Let's go back to ninety four ninety three, so you and you and murray you're kicking her. Round in and out of rock band, so dude and we were living so wheels off and so shitty we were eating. Ramen noodles like there was I dropped. I had a full scholarship to Sarah lawrence college,
to be a creative writer where'd, you go you and your fancy icicle right. Well, that's what that's what it was! I was going to this the skipping back to my Aids clears as a highly park with all the rich kids. Here I got beat up because we did never made an is that by rich kids, so yeah I got beat up by rich kids in basically one I had a reading is fun, pin on it when it was a fourth grader and a fifth grader came up to me and said the principal told me to punch in It was worrying the pen and push me in the face of like you fuck this up literally getting beat up for being like not a dummy for being creative and a guy that wants to write and do things cool. So I researched you're already kid yeah, so I researched other schools. I said fuck this I'm gonna go to a private school and I found bard college has simons rock of bards. Is smart kids go up? I live now, the hudson valley and then in Dallas there's a school called saint marks and it was all boys private school and it was, it was it's a fucking great school the amazing you know so I win I just set it up myself. As I asked my parents, I said I'm I'm going to do this and if I can get into one of the schools, can we
I had to pay for it, and I I went to sir to saint marks and I'm arose afore greater when they interviewed by summer after my fourth grade year, I was applying for sixth grade and I they said so what books? If you read lately I said you know a book. I just read that I really love was catcher in the rye and then why are you reading? That is a fourth greater oak as its because it was supposed to be yeah, but I talk to he's related europe earning more your great wars, yeah he got into say, marks in, and you know even dad. It's their supper, players everywhere, you go. You know like the kid wikipedia, even if they're not playing football, it's it's a character type and I learned pretty quick that I shouldn't necessarily they play football. It was a moment where they lined up in those drills where you're, all like you care While you tackle embryo the big mean kid. did I knew hated my guts like counted people in lined up across for me and then, when he tackled me, he'd whisper through the ear hole in my home. It quit the team faggot our now and it after like the fifth time, is like
You know what, for an idiot he's, giving me pretty good advice that I'm out and about, but I actually go back and banking exec where wherever he works, but I had fun at that school. You know it was that happened at the fancy school yeah. That was the fancy school. There is a there was a line drawn here, so I hung out with the weirdos there and then I started doing music. You know at fifteen, I was doing gigs at primary writing. Were you involved? Were we writing? Poetry? Where you know it's funny, you ask I was. I was the editor. We started a literary magazine called the rag that was so the on the rag and erode alot of poetry, and then I realized it. Writing. Poetry is not cool like it's it. I mean. I think that was it like the one. I was him, probably neither tenth grade. You know I had an english teacher and we were assigned poems and I wrote poems. Everyone wrote poems and we were going to read them out loud in class and mine were just like gut wrenching,
hank, and they never will they never looked at me the same. There is a very sensitive and talking about how everything's I mean, bacon, yeah, well, yeah, that and just sexual frustration in there and yeah. I never got looked at the same yeah yeah. It's got that power. We can alienate as well as enlighten but a few some cords under it and see a melody and it's the same exact thing I mean the normally I love it. So I get to see we'd, be a poet now and nobody makes fun of me. Ammo though my face may throw you. You did the rag and indeed the rag did all that stuff and then gigs. But when did you dead, writing songs. Thirteen so play guitar twelve quit actual because I wasn't gonna fucking right, songs, it's driving me crazy and- and I was I was pretty tortured. You know my parents were going through. There's a line and a robin hitchhike song in arraigned like a slow divorce. Is such a my parents divorced.
in years and years can see it as a lawyer, well known or no it just because they didn't want to break up and they end they. They should have an eventually they did. But you know they were thirteen. I was. I was seven when it's too in seventeen when it and oh my god blaming them for my I was. I was just fucked up kid. You know, I don't know how the world made no sense to me like. Why is it that the assholes, when. Why is it that you know I get beat up reading books, you know like they allow coming opera singer and then instead my face into a locker and I'm like opera singer, cool. We know it just none of it seemed fares. Are you felt alienated, but you didn't you you didn't like it. Will you weren't driving around breaking things? You went in word or did you dry? We re, I went in word and fourteen. I had a suicide attempts that was pretty gnarly. That really should have worked in. Oh, I, it oh yeah. Yes, I did, and I ve made up when not to talk about a much so so at fourteen. Yet that point you right in the rag you're you're playing guitar
I was the pointless of it like you or I do you so you you grow up each get a job about give money by a bunch of shit. Fill your house with the shit. Look at it dusted die It just seems to us: are the emptiness yeah you there you went nick drake existential, the ages went like it. You just we played out. I saw was goin. I saw the end game, but you didn't see that you know that, even though you are making these observations and that day you sort of you enjoyed things in most other people to enjoy. There was no hope there, because there was no winning were fourteen. There wasn't then very, very quickly there. After that, I discovered sex with girls will how'd you try Though the suicide rate middlesex tobacco The hang of it eventually took awhile
Well, let's see I, I basically decided I was going to drink anything with a skull and crossbones on it. So I went under the sink in the guest bathroom and I found all these lamp oil fluid idea, which actually was the thing that ended up saving my life because their oil based in the another poison they come the lining of my stomach and then, when I went up to my mom's medicine cabinet. And down every pill and everybody all my guide. We dislike it. Do you like turkey, had no room to room the so move, suicide attempts the girl, I go. What else is there like an ingest? It was, easy and then a lot and a lot of volume which slowed my system down, so that the toxins couldn't pump through the whole fur we're trying really hard to take all the the wrong shit, I took kind of all the right shit to not die and did you go down? Did someone find you? I did I When I realized I went,
imagine the living room and I was like okay now now what what? How long is this going to take and then all of a sudden I realized? Oh, this is really happening. My legs are numb and something about my legs being numb made me want to run so I ran out back door and to the railroad tracks a block away, and I ran down the railroad tracks to the knox, Henderson little shopping center, it was near our house and when I got across the street I'm on the border, there's a seven eleven parking lot and I just went face down in this women parking lot and theirs is really beautiful. Girl named bury who into the arts magnet high school and bury you knew her. No, I didn't know I ended up being friends with her cause. I my life for sheep. She saw me Go down. She's like this is not right, so she went over and rolled me over and found a number in my wallet. That was my girlfriend's new phone number You had a girlfriend yeah yeah yeah, aided theirs
things going on the air was complicated. Rights are very what she debate. She called a girlfriend whose dad was a doctor and they came. It picked me up a took me to the emergency room, not an ambulance, their young. I wouldn't you or you couldn't have colleagues, but I think she thought maybe I was just fucked up and I didn't want me to get in more try right right right, so he s eye when they didn't pump my stomach because it would kill me so they induced vomiting. So I again I thought I was unconscious, but I vomited for hours and then woke up the next morning and now. Weird thing of surprise to be alive. Like oh shit, didn't work, then org wow, so they then became friends, will bury yeah I wanted to go out on data is very bad. Meanwhile, our older she said she was successfully like it came like some sort of unwanted angel. She was so hot really what was going on with the girlfriend that you know drove you over the edge. How would you how much of it to do with that. Well,
I know over the years that she has been sensitive to because when happened. It was all our friends noon have by new, and you know she- and I might have had a fight that day, but there was just one piece of whom you know my mom and I had a fight that day. You know right the universe and I had a fight that day it's sucked but but I figured out was, and this is actually one of us since I I knew coming in here today that I'd probably wind up saying this- was I've been working with the suicide prevention lifeline and now now, just recently and- and I think it's it's something- nobody fucking talks about because it's oh dirty and embarrassing, and at sea it so vilified. You like, oh the selfish thing you could do well. People that are doing it, art are thinking about it, are trying it are. Thinking trying it because they think fuck you did, they think fuck me, I'm fucked. My world is for the world would be better without me, yeah and that's a that's a horrible thing to think in its
and it's something that you cannot live it. I'm not gonna, go Pierre, say style on you, but it s something. I lived it in within a year, I was writing. Lungs, and I had my first gig within a year of dead and played in front of people and next mixing. You knew I had all sorts of reasons to live. You know right. Why think also that, if it's not necessarily depressed driven, but it is driven by. By the hopelessness that comes from you, the problem was at home or like trauma of some kind that were you just hear, the discomfort is so intense or the hopelessness is so intense. You don't see any point, it's it's definitely a different thing. You can grow out of that, but people that battle with that listlessness of depression. Well, I'd I'd like I have a hard time, even picturing it. You know what that decision, because when you're in it the brains, tricky you honest, we
you think of a whole list of reasons why it makes sense, may a perfect sense, because you can't see it ever being any different net moment, yeah that its worst that's a tough thing. Will you, but that's also like it's one of whether things where you as a sober guy. You know that when you want a drink, young people are like what gonna go away, it's gonna pass. You know you yeah, just waited or go to sleep tomorrow, probably going to be better, but if you're into something I thought tat. Every day the same you have no ability to see forward or behind you didn't make any rational decision yeah but where you, when came out of that I mean you know, being that type of poet with the the one suicide attempt under your belt. That's that's some cred. In a way, yeah instead I catch that card in I got dates, got eggs. I got bands your emo before emo here, your troubled boy. Why have thought about that? Actually, I remember when emo started happening like doing what I do if I didn't have a little less tang. You know there's a lot of those three four.
elsie kind of songs. Like oh shit, the world is, Well, the shed kind of. Why think that? What what you're talking about really in relation to the the hierarchy of of what is mainstream high school at that time? It's just that those kind of kind of kids. You were, it's gonna, be a rough road, no matter what the and we just happened to be in a period now, where you know people sort of find their own way in that turns out to be a fairly profound and popular niche niece of that type of trouble teenager it's always been there, but it was just set. The paradigm was so set. You know you're either a jock or you're a pussy, oh especially in Dallas texas. Oh absolutely, I'm going to share albuquerque new mexico we had of late years? A lot of latino influence on data base. Is there yeah? There was a pretty pretty big at community and I went to a public school so yet was there, but it was happily more diverse here, because I think that taxes can pretty white pretty weird it's down class lines and
and ethnic lines. Oh, it's a real, segregated town yeah, it's it's tough, I'm so glad that I live now in nothing is else does has got a lot better. I've still got family there in and of tons of friends, but you know where I live in new york, and you know my theirs is black kids and makes can kiss my kids baseball team there all friends, nobody even talks about, and it's funny you know my my you're old daughter shall ye ll say like who's. Your favorite person should well, it's rosa parks- or you know it's just rosa parks is a fucking bad ass. That's why I think it's sort of fascinating that that the tide has turned a little bit for for kids, who are who are sensitive and and creative. really there. There was the jocks. Then there was the pussies. There was that the math nerds or people that no one knew how to talk to you. They were just the end point under the dragons and who I was to you are that there really
I was not a math nerd, but I, but I did play dungeons and dragons it like, I would be one night I was opening for lords of the new church, a club clearview. You know Steve better, yet kick ass, punk rock bentley or whatever goth protocol. However, this this sixteen really and then the next night I would be enormous the agreements house in the garage, plain dungeons and dragons. That makes sense. I guess, but sixteen so you were, you were playing in a band that was good on a solo. I was a teen folkie and in debt and dallas I got kind of embrace. I would open for red cross when they came through lords. The new church open for Chris Isaac right before we I disagree with my lips ovation, guitar by twelve string, ovation round back areas get her in the world and you're just their songs. They say in my little seashell girl keeps fire inside my god, so, it was worth. It was kind of like nick draconian away, yeah yeah, and an boy. It's funny, I think now,
I think back on it in some of the lyrics. On that record I made in highschool. I would never write lyrics like this any more, not because they're bad, but because they are so shocking, like there is there's once I'll ryan miller from gusto has become a friend of mine, but apparently when he young, he had mythologies the record I made in high school and played some of the song the first ever. Two gig. Apparently they played the songs on four trimmer capacity and there's a line in their while the the There was on the floor. His wife was on her knees. He was piss non christ and she was praying for peace. I would never right, pissing on Christ, in a song anymore, I don't know how I the high school, is like great idea and people love that song, but now now, if feel bad because like like, I don't want to do a disservice to you, because I know that you have very passionate and loyal fans. So they all know mythologies me mythos they don't it's. It's the there's a holy grail of my catalogue. It's that is not is not on spotify, it's not on itunes. A thousand copies exists when they go.
They come up on Ebay. They, sulphur, like three hundred and fifty bucks I mean it's. I've tried to keep it out. Cause for two reasons: it's a little embarrassing because of all the the british accent, yeah and- and I kind think it's fun it's so pre. no twenty first century to have something: that's not available. It's cool like how many things are not available anymore. That's! Ok! So that's eighty nine over sixteen I guess it came out when I was eighteen, ok, yeah, but still it was on man, those days because my parents were going through so much that it was. I have a different era. Like kids, you know It would. You were when we were kids. You'd, be you'd ride away from the house on your bike in the morning and come back at night. Nobody fucking asked where you went right, yeah yeah, so they were hit and they had their own things going on. So as a teenager, my life was a lot like that, like I'm a mom, I got a gig tonight, I'm gonna crash at so and so's house and there's there's this Just commune warehouse where people edges arts,
here's a music store. I ever this won't yet as a core yeah, and so I used to sleep on the floor of this gallery so really that generates easy. I lived the same life in a way that you know you're. This kid as these interests, but you're not gonna, find other people that can really guy through any of that are show you that it is a lifestyle until you sort of locking with those older cats yeah who were gonna live in it and then, when he first meet them like, oh, you can do. You can be a grown up and fuckin do this year, so you had them yeah. I had. I have a great deal murray. The errand since our base player was was really great out, desires you he added girlfriend jennifer and I had a girlfriend jennifer and they were friends with each other in and they says he was named each other's there he's Dana younger girl she's a little but younger than because he seven years I was eighty, an older girl. How can I certain ok? So I, hung out with older people a year.
To hear, but why, wouldn't you know you're not you're. At least you wanna be understood, even if not even if it's a little bit condescending like. Even if there's like all look at the little already kid zack, I didn't wide annette, like I'm from you. Fuckers yeah and went so what were you learning outside of music? What was the art scene like? There was a photographer's performance art I mean there's all sorts of weird shit yeah. I I learned that music was the only way that I could see to make make a life out of it because the rest of it, like I'm, not gifted in any kind of visual arts and life- but I just think that's tough, because you make a painting that painting doesn't do shit, it just sits there. Yeah one person buys at one time yeah, you know. If I do sigh, I can play it every night. Yeah put it on a record. I can sell it so that it mike easier commodity to try and nino shirt negotiate. So you knew that so I knew that and but I did like all the weirdos and the artists in the stray cats that lived around mib they used to follow me around. I would just walk around it's great. It's great. To know that there is an alternate
reality to through them. stream idea. Yeah. You know In in its much more interesting, I just went back and spoke to the kids They mark school, my alma mater and I've done. Before over the years, a twentieth in whatever reunion those fucked up but um I've done it over the years, where I'll go back and try and pick the five or six songs. That are the least inappropriate for me to sing for these. You know the middle school in the upper but I went back this time and I decided I want to give him a speech, a menacing couple, songs and then give him a speech, because since I left us, become a way more sort of business oriented in its driving kid specifically into your hedge funds and that kind of stuff, random which is fine? I get it. You know I gotta make money but I saw I gave a speech about. There is possibility of a life in the arts. You probably have to give the idea of being really wealthy but
can make enough of a living to have a family and a house ryan. And what you're doing- and you have to ask yourself- is giving up the money is sacrifice of that worth. Getting two fuckin make something beautiful and give it to the world. Is your making the world a better place? I don't know you do is making the world a better place. The idea, I think, there's two out of every really thought about that. hard to know because I was assume I got. I have said before that I getting music is sort of magic and in that it sort of replenishes itself. It doesn't that doesnt lose its magic. It really just doesn't like one something as laid down once a sign this in the world. We can go back to it at a different parts. It points in your life and the either get something new out of it or get exactly what you got out of it, the first time that it will connect with something fundamental to your or to your heart and it will always be there. I mean in it. If it wears out, you don't listen to it for a while and then eventually legality only hear that song now fog is still works like that's it.
that's an amazing thing to me an empty. About in. It is as a gift. It definitely is definitely to something that makes the world a better place, and you can't deny that about art. I don't know why. I'm just thinking about that now, because, if you like, even I think about artists, it they don't resonate, or don't get as big as as other artists or whatever there is that moment in your life, where you experience that, and it does something to your brain that is going to shift you in the direction of of of of rita men and a better place than than the other way, the dates, its art, verses, an empty existence actually. That's now is. That was why It came out. The other side with a suicide thing was. I think this is. This is what it's all about: filling up the world with beauty near you know, and rain, Wilson from a friend over the years, a he's bubba by high, yet guy and numb and which are
Canada is cool like I'm, not as a rule is guided by the kind of mixed up yet, but by one thing that he said that I really really liked was on the creation of art creed. The act of creation is prayer like that is the holiest thing you because you know your acknowledging something bigger like because the most nicole thing you can do- is just sit on a catching. Do nothing and just be a vessel filled up, with you know whatever or just would work are just one, yeah exactly work for for the empty pay off of I don't think security and an essential, Well being, is necessarily empty and certainly there's a lot of people that struggle to even have that yeah, but but to sort of you do not have any. Definition that nourishes your spirit. Yet in this process of working eyes. It is a disaster, and I just I don't like this sort of like why haven't job. So I can, my retire with and are weakened. go on the boat. I'm not begrudging that, and I
in there's part of me that envies people that, except that is like an ok life, you know in that you in a white what it, but it's not for everybody, that the art thing I know just isn't yeah people something people meant to do it, but in their own but that's what I was saying to the kids. Obviously Most of you guys are going to do. The costs are prepared to make a lot of money and in that'd be great, but there are Kids in here that our may be meant to do art. Or music or whatever and like you know who you are exactly it, but it s ear, sheila's, because it's fuckin scary, and yet their parents or like a lot of guys parents who argue don't want you to do that, it's only out of fear of their future yeah. It's there's very few parents are like art stocks. Don't be a fool They exist and I'm sure that the other day, I you're be your parents. When I got there were they know but they exist, but that's a different problem by up to the people. I've talked to her creative people. If
parents resisted? It was usually because they were afraid for their future course and yet, when I dropped out of college, my parents you know, said whatever little money we have. You don't get it, because you did that you gave up of a hundred thousand dollars scholarship to a great collar. And now you ve got no fallback plan. No, I think that a point. I dont want a degree that I can fall back on because then I'll do it, because it's way easier, as for ten years Can it Rahman noodles, Through that? Did you go to the real squalor lectures the drought my parents are relatively supportive, but we once I start doing comedy. I was very stubborn about taking money if, unless I really was in trouble so yeah lived on the worry side, but I really tried to earn my own money, but I was not. ever completely cut off there, so it was square or of a different kind squalor in the sense that I didn't know how I was gonna make it, but I never really thought about it. That's a good thing right areas,
made you have two fucking get out there and what happened? I never. I met her and I never thought of doing anything. I like never practically thought of any doing anything else after certain points to eat on either you're you're compelled and possessed by it, but like there was never really a functional plan b and then go back to school for something vague. Do you know what I mean yeah exactly like. That was always a thing like I could go back to school like you barely were there the first time you did okay, but what do you think's going to happen? Yeah, I dunno so you say, drop out you? What were what were you studying? What was this? It was creative writing. That was therefore, why would they cut you off? If that was your, I mean there was no big payoff, in writing. While a college degree with elicited still held that a certain amount of the esteem, then I know raved again nanny more so you drop out after what year after one semester once MR near I was but I had a great depressed again or no. No, I had a great semester right. I had two girlfriend
who were incredibly awesome that I mean no one of whom are still really great friends with. I was all my friends were seniors was the funny thing again. I was only hanging out with the older kids and you see my kind of a girls guy. You seem like a guy that girls are going to come here. I'm gonna take care of you. I guess I've never suffered in that regard. for you and your harmony, pussy, why I find it not you I noticed at about about the almighty seven's, even in primarily, I think you is that you you somehow a mass, this borrowing of of sorting groovy, you'll, all t checks and they stayed with you. I imagine at this point you have like four five year old women that have been watching you, since they were twenty three. Fortunately, the the fan, it does sort of regenerate. You know in the weirdest way that it does is those forty five year old women that you mentioned, bring their three hundred twenty two year old daughter that that's when it gets a little weird yeah, but but yeah yeah, it's
sweet? It's! Alright, I had some one: a manager for intimates had once donors as rapporteur for the dude, your solar records or for the chicks is that true, I am not all here today. It is yeah yeah yeah, it kind of rock and roll in general. That's the whole point of Rock'N'Roll! That's why there's that, on the new record, there's a song called, let's get drunk and get it on, and I brought it around. A bunch of people were like. Are you serious? You can't just say that, unlike are you fucking kidding, that's what every single song of ever written base please said in so many right right, yeah, yeah, yeah fuck me, I'm here, that's all born a rock and roll but you know you got between you and me. I think a lot here where speak through a vulnerability, that that is not that maybe that's what they were concerned about. Yet definitely don't show it. What are you some drunk monster over? The song is really wait. It is a total love. Song just happens to put it all
Uh yeah, yeah, yeah! Well, all right! So, let's get back to this country, india so eat. You know you eve college and you are a folk singer to some degree or at least to a solo pop song writer. I mean what was the thing that brought you guys. to deciding that. That was your mode, because I mean the old ninety seven's. It's a country band rita. Well murray can't Mary was living in dc when I was going to Sarah lawrence and he would come up on weekends, and we would play Go down to the city and plate c b: Jimmy's was open at the time and I used to play the canteen the can't canteen place next to the next year, I do every like Friday night at beyond their bill at the canteen and go back up today, but I was really just don't think. As I'd I was used to doing music. I was doing for gigs a week before after college yeddo to be just one little thirty minutes had a week was freaking me out yet and more. Would come up and play with aunt play, and so he was, You got a drop out. You gotta dropout vs, so it has come on drugs
was to go back to the house was started band together. So when bacteria, started a sleepy heroes year, which was really fine, but it was no I've never been a great marketer, like the word old, for instance, is apparently anathema our marketing right, so so, Well, you know we we started. This band was a three piece. I played a twelve string, rick and backer Murray played bass, which wound up being sort of the only lead instrument. It was it just wasn't going to happen. I remember there was a band around that time. Called material issue that came out of them there are great carrying the waitress. I love them so that I can kill them sunday to himself. but they they were a three piece with. I think he played a bunch of twelve string and so it possible that that format could have worked at that time fright for a minute, but we weren't securing the world what I'm ready for that in general I mean, I don't think it really worked for them. I mean it was pretty limited, still area so on sudan,
ban broke up the day that the box of records came back, the manufacture of cities and numb, for whatever reason our drum whatever where they are once again here. What do we do them again, just self bear. No defeat so here we broke up. Then, and then I went through a series of bans got it got it got complicated like marine. I had a falling out briefly why where we had entered a battle of the bands of the hardware cafe, we won the first round. go to the final and between the first round of the finals, Murray and I had a fight and remember what ha ha. I was upset because he was sing. He wasn't because I would again so much offers in his by who, by murray because he because his might technique was bombing me out, like you wouldn't sing into the microphone enough, and then he couldn't hear himself enough and then his harmony would be off key and I
I sort of tried to do an intervention to get him to a he's, canopy so mad. Why, along over there was literally overt eurozone area, exactly still, I could get anything had allowed to get mad you guys, are gonna, be beyond love, you murray The word it was stupid who just don't fight, I know, and so he the band, and then I brought him like a feelin base player to do that Because there's like five thousand dollars were the gear: if you one we are, we did and morocco and sat in the balcony and got drunk and why? it is and was all mad. It is either there's a couple, a crazy years between sleepy heroes in the old ninety seven, where I was trying to from bands. I had this one being called buzz. That was just a piece of shit. being called rats exploding. Why Is that a good man who who think that's a good man? I mean? I don't know year of early I think Murray thought it had been a bit. So so these bans, were we like before sludgy miss temple russia and they were kind of trying to be one.
nevada, ended up being, which is distorted, guitar with real pop hooky, Pierre things happening and one night, marina were roommates in this shithole apartment, marquis de courts in dallas. It was the night nirvana did esa now and we watch and I remember we looked at each other when we got a fucking stop. We We're, never guess we're, never gonna be as good as their and they're doing it. This is already happening and we are right to do something. That's not becoming naturally to us, and so we took a six months. and we didn't do shit and we'll wireless in both listing kind of obsessively to Hank Williams and I'm just a field just a yeah sure, because it was so pure yeldo sciences, just that their their critics crystallize. What I love about music, the hooks in the sentiment in the the honest, roy emotion and simplicity of it. So so we came together, there was a deal. Let's do plus two this. Let's do it we said no drummer. Let us do something that coffee shop, based where we can place
like the can we really like with a dozen- and a chance of cause with those the rock bins we were doing. The whole point was to trying to fuckin side, because this was a different era. They did the eight hour, guys think you out after mythologies or not they they would come around every once in a while, but they comical what can you do a band with no lead guitar band, yeah and then, and then, when we would it just never working, I clicked, and then you know why, because it was fucking, disingenuous rise. We were key. Killing me, The world wanted and then try to give that to them. We end it was bullshit. Is people smell that year? So when we old eighty seven, the whole idea was: let's do abandoned, has no fucking chance of ever be popular, getting signed, it'll make us happy and of course, ironically, because It was what we were near us. We're gonna go at rio and people started like in it. Yeah and a lot of people like you built a pretty good audience. You know you you, they sustain you, don't they come around. Then there then still it's it's a kind of music that doesn't really date itself without
that was cap. That was calculated like. If we do this, it's just real and we can do this for fucking ever and you know, look at www, nelson and earth really, honestly, that's only ever been my goal to be the next willie nelson or the next christophersen. Maybe you know right, but you don't seem to be living that life. I mean you seem like you're in pretty good shape here. Oh really is our right. Willie so gets out on her, but I mean, like you, know, it's a notorious. We hard life and increasing they all kind of beet themselves up at one time yet, but I think that maybe was more product of that time and act in everybody's doing tonnes. Rogue everybody drank, although that was a really early on a decision that I made I did not. I saw the people and blow and are merely twenties. I tried it. Sunk was working a restaurant year there between the three dry blow at a restaurant, those crazy shafts, yeah yeah, the guy you hang around. That has it, though thou somebody, they add it and then, but I just I would look at the guy that had it and I d like do I wanna, be back I when I forty fuck, no man,
so that was an early decision in the band of they were not nobody. Nobody to blow the smoke, however much we want new sweltering just end, no smack nobler good. oh no longer strung out nobody. God? Not? No nice evans and that's why you that's why people bring their daughters as he will have twenty years later, when it's It's you say, that's so it sustains me it not only does it sustain me, but, like this record, we just put out is the biggest record we ve ever put out crazy. You know we had our highest char position, were cell I've been used that we'd never sold out before we twenty years in twain only to twenty fucking years. That's all right! There is still a good as her your knee you'll get over the neat, but because there were the record it rocks, it feels good, and the first thing is a nice long song
taken on the life and rock and roll yeah there in that qatar set you up front on that thing. The acoustic is me how whose on that- and I am now that's kin- kids, the ets, a filthy, sound, a guitar like it yeah he's like the defining sound of our band amid as much as murray's, whose, in my whatever yeah kins, weird, surf his key man, guitar yeah, yeah yeah, I mean So I get any teams real autobiographical. It seems like you, and I think what you what's happening is that your this wisdom to it now yeah, How do you guys it yeah? You still seem to get along. He still put out good music. You can do your soul, albums and people of those by them You guys are coming together your prose and end. You can speak from a place. fucking earned wisdom and it takes in it took twenty years for me too, because I always I don't I don't. Maybe I know which is from my interactions with you and what I've heard of your stuff- the? U battle with that like self, Fourthly, do I belong here, my good enough for their anxiety right, I always suffered from that. Like you know, like I'd meet somebody famous,
oh god, they don't want to talk to me. Why would they want to fucking? Tell you I'm not in their league and yeah yeah yeah yeah, the I saw that episode ray romano episode of that so fucking funny, but it's I've always kind of felt that oh thanks for inviting me. You know yeah yeah! No one saw stop. It read you sound like an idiot here, but if you don't like the weird thing about that disposition is what the change. What kind of empty you gonna get they're? Not! people really love you get there they're going to be feeling the same thing like this can be cool threat, Mr Miller, and am naga whose yet you know, but like a lot of people like get your fucking great, and you never believe and when they say that bulgaria will willie now said said right above years after I thank forbidden, so you know it's it's, it's all its internal dialogue. But it took this and now I dont really have the minutes. It's just something I all year always battles, but I don't have that, like I belong here I suck under added enough, and it took me fuck it for ever to get over there and that's this record yeah, that's a record there. You go
you give a fuck anymore, yet, finally graduations so when you who John brine that oil, because, like I'm, still sort fascinated with the idea why cause likely look it. I guess a good comparison would be that the the make up of uncle tupolev here in a sense that no. What happened between J and Jeff ye. You know, Jeff had a zero after your pop. aspirations and j was you know a country rocca here and date, I survive it so as a band. So what that you able to do as you have you know the old ninety seconds, which does your songs and you guys do have pop elements after obviously, you're, grounded and rooted in in that sound traditional, sound. And even go? Do your pop records and there's no big tension near it?
first, it was weird we adjust and satellite rides, which was our last record for electric and it was ninety, in two thousand in the whole business was changing. It was when you know it can imploded electra records was about to fold. Electra picked up the option, for me to do a solo record, but not for the next ninety seven record and right that fact, along Weird created a lot of tension, then I went off and did a record the habit I mean. Do you remember back then the the record budgets where that was like a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar record? Who He needs to and fifty thousand dollars to make me john bright, and I spent every penny of where we live. The student energy studios for four months. brought in Jim Keller and josh freeze and like the greatest musicians in the world, and we would spit whole days trying to find a guitar tone for, like one solo shows that did you like that, He had never known anything like that before it only made records with the ninety seven, which tended to be much quicker, more live kind of affair,
It was really farm in watching John Brian work in you know getting paid to watch him work, that's its awesome. It was a great experience. It must. I've never been in his studio like some the while this especially having the shades, I'm friends with those guys yeah they. They asked me to play on a song and what's his name was producing it, the the guy you random bits and he's great he's great, but I never experienced any of that. You know the the the type of kind of like finessing at you. do down to a note you why I was like home fact, is a real job. You have been here all day. You I'd die I thought I knock this all out war yo an hour had about a nail that rhythm. That's all areas yeah I mean it's. It's it's a whole other world that she had just plain your friends. No but now there was a time back. When that record got made. We had a guy on staff whose job to go home every night and comp things which you your wishes
to compile different performances into the perfect frankenstein monster performance area, which is now so par for the course and accepted that I feel like it. kind of sucked a lot of the fun and inhumanity out of music? Has everything so perfectly come back then you had to have like a full time guy to do that now, people can just come so quickly. Right, you know it's: it's allowed. The technologies made it so much easier, which is good and bad. Well, what take away from that yo in terms your music of working with a guy who is sort of a genius lodge? Brian I mean in that experience that affect the future of what you do Well, I learned to play diminished courts for one thing the guitar study yeah yeah, I he's a really inspiring guy, because it's it's always about just following instinct like for him his ears thanks, involve seeing, I think, really see the architecture of the music as its unfolding in front of like the next five
seconds in five minutes are all unfolded in his mind and he knows where he's going, what he's doing, but its is wrong. About trust in your instincts and not settling for without does good enough. I guess right you know in, John would never do that. He would never be like that's good enough right. That's the same with what's his name, pretty bad, so yeah same same thing like they're possessed yeah and and they both can pull it off. And they have a vision, obviously emanate they. There that's right, trusting your instincts, which is not something you and I do naturally no It's ironic cause you and I both do jobs where you have to do that. You have to make immediate decisions right, but you fake it away now why those things are reactive, so you're, not really thinking it. That's true, that's true I've heard you say stuff where your father like I'll go to this routine If so, what was happening? Remember David cross, for me, a million years ago at the fares cafe in america such a great room. Yes, my old favour room, and it was. It was just too it was like. I was like hey: do you want to do a set opening and he's like yeah fine forget I just got off this college tour and so he tried out a bunch of monsieur
There was not even material. yeah like you just, walked up there and was like ram the a and it was an audience that didn't really understand who he was. I don't think, and he was kind of bombing and I saw it and he knows that obama and I saw it his face were whose like fuck, you people, went into like his most killer, a yeah and and yeah he slayed as he walked off stage to just people going ape shit, but I could see it in his face. Like fuck this I'm going to do the yeah yeah right there. I like bridget, yeah yeah. Well, I talked to like those guys like guys in their imbues traveller it was interesting as they come at that'll jammed m world here and it was like they knew like The one thing that I got out of that was that, like don't don't shoot your load too early yeah, save the big songs to the end, yeah yeah, yeah, or even the build of a song or even like you know like even if you're going to play some lead, like you know, make sure he you know you saved the big. the big step for the n. That's funny, I I wrote a song that the one co write right on the new record is with this guy in nashville this funny one.
Songwriter, namely on Mcelroy that I got put together randomly within. I saw him in nashville will play the other night, we'd written assigned get and he's really proud. It turns out that of the song he plays it for people who are Helen came over to my house. This is the song I play him. We had fun right, yeah, fuck and wasted ten in the morning and his house full of ferrets and weird animals in and out, but he when I walk in his house, he said I ve been in europe on youtube, and I think your audience would appreciate if you walk up to the markets, have fuck and so he had this idea for a course than the course was who died. A blow to get in. This fuckin show its dark in there. I know when I got nowhere else to go, and so together we came up with story about in I married caroline boots. This whole story, but these guys just fucked up his world prices, makes mistakes at stake and so first verse of the version that we recorded, so am, I caroline back in may and ninety nine. It was fucked up at the time, but I figured we keep trying and so you know the one thing I wish we had changed his. I wish we had.
Because in the second verse its wake up from his mother fucker. Dreams is a big mother fucking that happened, and then he goes into the course with who'd. I got a player so he's like the ones, we had dies saved the fuck till this Until when the mother fucking happens, cause like you, shoot your wife too early with a fucking the first verse yet, but I did I I sorta disagree because I'm feeling fucked This is a song I give fuck they every chance. I buck erika right. That's interesting, though it's a songwriter instinct, their nets, you it's a retainer instinct, yeah yeah we want to place on. I would love to, I guess I'll play nashville, since we
it's america, the married caroline back in and ninety nine was fucked up at the time, but I figured we'd keep trying brother and dad they were spitting mad. When I packed up what I had to run and it was bad, it was mean I didn't care me nowhere. So I tried to be a better man. The letters in the right, sunshine and denied got my ass kicked every fight. No, I couldn't get it right. I built castles out of sand. I couldn't understand why everything up then ran like whiskey off my pants in my hands, the mother fucking drain dude, I got the one I got nowhere else do I need a place to hide. The universe is floating out in space and I look up there and I kept my face and I'm seeing my reflection the next day the riding down the same old words on the same old page dude. I got the one I got nowhere else, the food I got the one I got nowhere else, the cause of the
yeah damn that guitar sound, so full nice, gibson J, two hundred it's a boy I play as well J. Forty five of that thing. Just for that's great will thanks man, great talking to you so great beyond you know, you've always been so nice and kind of me when we've run into each other and I'm honored, and they know what I'm really proud of all your kick ass success. Wow! Thank you. You too man, I'm glad the fear is gone woo. Yet that. Was upon you, I wasn't it tat goes guy good song, gotta deputy after our common values, deputy have needs we get to the merchant there. That's stratocaster, that's drat, sound man. Am I right
and yeah, I I will. and at the
the loose lilies, really right, happy thanksgiving and like this better Rumour lives
Transcript generated on 2022-11-16.