I once knew this hour. You at the blogger, is what the fuck buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck snakes, what the fuck a holocaust, what the fuck canadians and what the bucket Alex! That's enough. mark marin. This is doubly t have woken. My show where we are. What day? Is it it's thursday? What is the fifth march? Fifth? A look. It's got stick with some practical step. I can t This a second show has been added in seattle for the marriage nation tour. I know it. I can show, has been added in toronto. Second chose been added in Boston as well. Friday, mainly May eighth, though there wade show at the neptune in seattle now, ok and at the bloom, a pal in toronto. On April nineteen, there is now a second show added there and

wilbur on April, eleventh So I just wanted to let those people now is clearly in those areas ticket. Our cell in good, bye. I'm excited, I think, I'll, be funny. I'm staying in shaping ongoing on weekends, I'm doing the stand up, but boy I am fried today, man, I'm ride, I I did pieces of three different episodes today, and am I told me that's how they shoot porn? and then she's actually in the porn industry. So I I think I I have a right to tell you that my my pussy is a little exhausted. Yet it's been a. It was a long day you guys, but I was thinking about what our talk about on Monday. I think I'm understanding something. Like I taught I talk about not really give. fuck anymore, and I dont know that. That's necessarily the way to phrase it because,

started to realize something that is an outside chance that I may be just growing the fuck up. I know it's surprising, but I might just be growing. The fuck up, maybe things aren't work out exactly how I want them to maybe things I always feel good, as you want them to, and sometimes even when you reward yourself or expect to reward. That may not come all those things, and I know I paid lip service to about two this before you know that mikey interview looking for the world or everybody in your life to pay you were even your job to do care of you and in a way that they ve wanted your. Aaron steers, it's not gonna happen, and I think what finally happening naturally, is truly realises there's a sort of deadening inside as a part of heart that, just with there's because it realises that it is not going to do

at what it wants, but that's all hey. You should add closure on that thing a long time ago, so eventually it just has to to wither. You have to kind of beat it up a bit, though The little party, your heart, that sort of like come just gimme, will give me everything I want. I want in a voice again avatar than we could be angry. in that part of, because I'm not angry anymore, because it is not going to work out the way. I do then events it's right, way, tat mattered, I'm ok doesn't matter, I'm ok! Now I understand I'm. Ok, then is being a grown up. I understand I'm ok yeah. Well, disappointing. I'm ok, yeah knob I'll, be! Ok! That's horrible, but I'm ok I can handle it. Does that that that instinct, that that little That will switch. Oh, my god. This is why

It is, but I'm ok. I suppose you, oh my god. This is generally in may this year by given these tone? I feel had graduated to adulthood in it only took me fifty one, fifty one years and two marriages and no children on earth to us. yet there and it's a little bit, it's a little painful too little cruel to me. What did I mention that rob mackerel hany eyes on the show today, the creator of it's always sunny in philadelphia, which is currently in its tenth season on it's on ethics acts. When nights in the season. Finale is on march eighteenth. It's been a while If we try to talk awhile back and finally got it to happen, so that's exciting. I just feel grown up. Can you feel they are grown up this? I guess guess. What I ve been talking about is is the heartbreak of being a grown up. That

that get. I think I knew it intellectually, but but I think the biggest lesson we can learn its after a certain point is you can have to suck it up a little bit? I'm not talking tough love thing I just mean if you dont want to walk around feeling depressed and injured, and wounded and an like an open wound your entire life, which I believe is possible. You're gonna have to adjust in that part of your heart. That's infantile, just a nest. The size it with the with the rationalization or something quite that fucker down. I I do hope, you're having a good day and let's talk to rob macklewain

When the does anyone ever track you down and that's the guy. No, but very recently I had an incident right outside of our house yeah. There was like five or six five or six cars parked out there with young dudes with cameras right and so and then I'll just kind of staking out yeah, and I got my kids out there, and so I I put my kids inside I walk out and they say hey can I help you yeah and the guy goes yeah you live next door to some famous people. I was I am right so there in general, the operative yet not, therefore make not there for us, but right we have a couple of famous neighbours, are really and so there that it too, to shoot them. You're ready for battle I flew right under the under their radar, which were which we're happy, but even when you're right you their face. Nothing. Nothing. Is that great, it's great that you have that type of fame. We're

if the people than no you know you and everybody else, fuck em, it's kind of perfect yeah, it's kind of her so now I will you wanna talk about this possible move in this concern. Well yes, I'm were building a house built in what my, how big I'd, rather not a good sized house It's a good sized house. I mean it's like you know when your bill. In your own house. You get to choose. You know you get you get to build that everything you whatever want in a house So are you like a but are you? Are you crazy? Are you reasonable? A little bit of both yeah yeah? I mean I yeah it'll, be a baseball field, no baseball film. There will. there will be a jim with with mats right fur grappling sure things like a wrestling hands on esa jujitsu.

Why not? One of your might start teaching guy says we have about fifteen years off, but maybe I'll bring teachers and wool invite kids. When the neighbourhood, let me give yet but you know I always wanted to a movie theater, my house, and so I wanted to build that. That's probably our biggest excess I do that now, who does I just saw? I mean like you do that with them, because you write to your computer, really I mean you don't need to, or you can put a film theater and not a not a film we had a with a projector right, yeah yeah yeah, who is. I was at I was at louie's house and he's got like a setup where it's like hanging from the ceiling yeah, you can do a write up: the apple tv, apple, tv or whatever, through the computer yeah, and the studios have this system. To that you, you have to pay some exorbitant amount of money, but you can get onto this circuit where you can watch the first run movies, the weekends that they come out. Really. You can do that through I

I is it like all the studios movies to one area you have to sign up with each individual studio like Adam some obscene amount of money. That is like a secret service yeah. If you worried about that one, I have connect yeah guess I have connections. So that's what I'm looking forward to probably most but yeah. It's a it's a little scary for me to move into that environment, where you have two kids, two kids, two boys and you grew up a like. in a scrappy, neighborhood yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, really pretty scrappy women mean what I mean. I've been to Philly a few times. You ever go to John's roast, pork, ah sure yeah, yeah yeah. Of course I mean the roast. Pork is the so cheese steaks are what the city unfortunately is most favorite. I I never. neither us pork, another export to the union. I can barely muscle down one of those cheese takes anymore. I think that too Why do you have allegiance to one or the other? You don't give a shit, No, I mean in the neighborhood and I grew up and was very close to gmos and pats, which is like the big right

That is why I am I was always partial to Jim's, which is on south street, yet do out the though I find it so sad that whenever I talk about philadelphia, they are saying that comes up. As my legions to some family stakes was damaged, as opposed to it being you know that the birthplace of our nation, what's the birthplace of a sandwich too, I mean that it. do you know it's hard to figure out? What's more important, sometimes isn't it? Well, we one I'm think of one, and now we have the other to talk about one. Allow other exaggerate yeah to sort of way. we're because you go see the liberty bell Emmi do that I go and I went on my guard, is I don't know if I do, you feel more than a leave out again no not necessary, I mean as an adult. Now when I go back, I I do but but no not necessarily. I don't think I feel any more.

patriotic than the average man I wish. I knew more d. I mean: could you like, walk your kid around and and kind of way out the birth of our nation? I could, but that's only because I got I got really into american history. Like long after I left school, he started reading up as as I could honour, I know every time I go back a alex. Take those historical walks much to the chagrin of my spouse, she's alive. You know no, she driver's license sandwich. You know she's from Oregon. So, like you know she she's like the to me again growing up with didn't, really exist We have one ran away to avoid everything. Yet bank yeah, you too, and I never really thought of california- is a real plants. You know what is in daylight, there's something about the east coast, where it so densely populated, and it feels like all the history is air and there's a type of person that their than is in anywhere else I'd there's something about like philadelphia, boston, york, long island, rhode, island there, just a type of county earth sorted

city mentality, nowhere else, and I can't help it. I feel most home when I go back, even though I never walk right in the end, we are acts and probably changes out, but without a doubt, immediately elm. Almost to me I mean it depends on how much and drinking your humdrum arguing, but like philadelphia, most places. I really know. I never was there when it was right for bad, but it seems like it's. When the city where they did a little bit of that were neural business in the downtown area. It sort of work, it's kind of fun to walk around and shit and yeah like it's a great city. It's a great city. I love gone back in the neighborhood. I grew up and is still a great neighbourhood. It was just I think, in the eightys it was kind of moves. Gonna rough. We worked in what way you know it was just a lower middle class. I mean great people, but I think I wish lack a little but a mixture of everything they were still enclaves of of.

In the italian and irish are given my my so might likes great assets and grandmothers and things that they they were prejudice and in a way, but not in the most obvious ways like they they they. They were not, it's about italians, the irish, which you don't really see. You know a lot now the cars who they were. I or they were irish and you know it was like the the blacks they didn't really think about too much of italians that interest right. And because of it, I didn't really learn how to write a bike till I was like thirteen or fourteen out of fear. How you know I don't know. I was just told you or not. You are not running your bike came through in knock it off a block yeah now if the I think we are allowed to to migrate, maybe three blocks in and in any direction. So what? How big of a family is? You come from I wish my immediate family. My my father came from ten and my mother came from nine. Oh, my god massive massive family in your ear, and you got brothers

yeah yeah. I have. I have a younger and older stepsister, younger sister and younger brother and a younger youngest half brother, so that for so that was yeah or so it appears that it depends on what you see, years. I had different siblings cause. There are you have a half brother on your dad's side like your yeah, my father's, a child from his second marriage? How many times he been married he's not he's working on three? Oh, that's good yeah! Is it that this one's happy? Oh yeah, this one this haven't you ever off heat, I think so so huge other outward mainly with my dad yeah yeah yeah, but we were We saw my mom on weaker areas, started, every other weekend. Usually it's the other way it was. My mom had defined herself defined her, so I had to find ourself and how that pan out she turned out really well yeah, but it was rough there for free,

while not drugs. No, no! No! She she's gay yum, but she didn't. I guess you always knew that rise, really difficult and self philadelphia to be. to be gay, and I think, on top of that she wanted a family and she wanted to. She went to catholic school, and it was probably whipped into her that that was sad. That was bad, so tried to stuff it down, get rid of it yep, and so she did that by getting married, having three kids and then actually was pregnant with a fourth and they had a late term miscarriage aha. so you know she was. I think, up to that point in her mind live in the dream, living livin, infilling, raising, kids and then it just can't gonna come crashing down just in in her, I think yeah. I think she was just unhappy. I think she realized that it was that she was living, something though it was a ally, even though she loved us and she loved her family. She certainly loved my dad, but it just wasn't. Working wow

big change, big change, yeah! I remember them sitting us down. I think I was seven or eight and it was not fully explained to us that he was gay no right exactly. It was just that mom's mom needs to leave for awhile. That was at villa have her that, once or twice before, the vague sort of like she's got some things yeah. Well, we were a. I think we were eight six and five or how to even process your brain around that we we couldn't. I mean I dunno yeah. You know you just go, oh, I guess that's the way it's going to be, and, of course it was the adapt and children's journey dad, but it was a. It was a bummer. I mean I can look back on it now and I have such a compassion and respect for her to make that decision and probably the most difficult time of her life. You know, but as a kid I didn't get it, but did she move across town or yeah, I mean I remember, there was a period in the beginning where we didn't see her for a little. While, I think

and in my mind I project that to be years, but I think it was only have a few weeks or maybe a few months, but you know relative to my life experience at that point. It was a really long time and I think she was just sort of figuring out who she was ryan. She found a partner and very quickly and they've been at an hour for over thirty years. Wow! Yes, oh! That's! Like your second, my second mother get out. I am lousy with moms I got guns got so many, so many mothers, that's a scam, a beautiful story. and my and my dad I mean my dad was a really he's, just an amazing guy. He he recognizes you don't want. My mom came back and said you know, let's, let's figure this out, he said I get it, let's figure it out and you know she said I want to have a relationship with my children. He said you absolutely should and they figured it out. They figured it out and and and

we're so close and continue to be so close that when my father went through it, he got remarried. After this he went through a second divorce and there was some financial issues and he was going to lose the house and- and he then with my mother and marry for a for an extended period of time real and they lived together in new jersey, yeah and they all still get along. They do yeah new jersey, yeah, south jersey, that's the other! That's right by philly, right yeah! You have to stay at the other place. That's where my my family's from jersey there's nothing like that area. No, it's the best! I know it really is It's a that's a great story and everybody's good everybody's everyone, everybody, your brothers and sisters, took to it and everything yeah yeah, I I it was it was it wasn't as difficult as looking back on it even at the time I never felt like it was that difficult, and I think that was an extension of how my friends reacted to it.

What are your dad too? I mean I get it. I imagine those things can be difficult if your dad would have been far occur again. remember that night, sunlight and my father's nature here but, like, I think, that's what causes the weirdness as if somebody, if apparent freaks out, but how did that happen? My my my friends were always super supportive. I mean I remember, I remember really coming to terms with it when I was probably maybe in eighth grade you know, or or thirteen or fourteen You know, I probably always knew but didn't want to admit it. They might not always gay yeah and dumb. I remember you know, maybe pulling aside one of my friends on points and hey. I think my mom's gain he's again yeah and it turned out that all of my friends kind of already knew her as she was living with a woman for as long as they had known her for as long as I had known her right and nobody cared right,

nobody, nobody on an item, I dont ever remember having any altercation or issue with it. Amongst my peers, and I was worried that cat what thing really saps your head, I dont know- and it also seems like when things go weird within a cab community that eventually, if they just stay kind of like if people are committed to the whatever they might consider weird within catholicism, eventually just levels of no, he was just a way that is yeah yeah. How catholic were you brought up her super catholic? I mean I went to catholic school, all through my I'm in through grade school kindergarten grades, you had to wear outfit yoga, yeah the whole deal tight suit and tie and your dad your dad was

you turn yeah he's still. He still is. He still is my mother. It was really fascinating cause. We were with my mother on weekends, and you know she would. She lived across the street from a church, and so we had to go. You know every sunday, meanwhile, we're like what the fuck, no one she sending us across saying you have to go, but she's not gone or horse and my dad we're not going to stand believers. She was ashamed or what I don't know. I think it was probably a little bit of a little bit about right. I think it was a little bit about here. but I am, I actually really loved catholic school here I want to a single sex catholic school avoid all boys were ordered, so you right because it was, it would give good competitive spirit, YAP when yeah little better. That yeah, I think there was a tremendous amount of discipline. But

so compassion. You know this was the nineties or the fifty sorry, the I went to a jesuit school and their whole thing is just you know, can continually question authority, which is you know, a really empowering thing to teach a fourteen year old boy you know and dangerous armor from I would think, from a from a scholastic perspective. You know they're trying to corral these horn. That was filled with that, part of the that's the idea, the jesuits it's a it's a huge part of it. Yeah they're they're, constantly challenging you to question everything. Well, that sort of defines the way you've approached your whole life in a way huh. yeah after a certain boy yeah. Well I I I I credit my high scores as as having a a a major major impact them on my life and the way that I see the world was there, a teacher in particular there's a few yeah. There was a few yeah. I had this one this or this none. Yes, sister, sister Kate,

such a kate worry and she you know she was tough, but I remember one time and you know I had some discipline problems when I was a freshman. How did those manifest? I was super obnoxious and I was really small. I didn't hit puberty till like way late in life like sixteen or something, So I was a wrestler my freshman year and I I remember my exact weight class, my exact weight because I was wrestler, so the lowest weight class was one of three year, but as a freshman, I wrestled the one o three in the one or three pounds but I was eighty seven pounds so eighty seven as a third eighteen pounds a thirteen year old boys uniting time tight and all my friends were you know, d being a body hair, and now you relate allowing all laid on everything. Yes, last in the locker room, gower strudel boats goin on man, So you learn. You know you learn how to deal with. You learn how to deal with

his ways and keep your towel. Yet one of them was just to get like as of noxious as possible, right and belligerent and ready to fight and rhino those kinds of things, and so it would manifests right. In that way my grades rose really good, but I was always sir. I was always getting to detention ragueneau suspended from where this the sister teach away on you, but one day I was in a big, a big fight with with one of the teachers, and he called me a painter, ass. An I probably was, but then I kind of jump. I cannot continue that fight and then a kid evolved, and then it got physical and I got pulled away and that the disciplinarian came. hold me pull me and was office, and he gave me a lecture in them. The another teacher.

And they gave me a lecture and they're like you're fucked up. What are you doing? You know what is this behavior? Where we're going to suspend you were gonna, expel you and then sister kate comes in and she's like mceleney come with me, so she pulls me into her office and my sister caitlin. She slams the door and she goes. You know most people just remember this. Most people in your life don't know what the fuck they're talking about, get up and now is it and I left and my hair the exploded. What because she did, I think, was she whew subsequently. We had many conversations about it, but but I think she was based we like laying a level of compassion on me that I couldn't quite comprehend, but it was like look. you're gonna be surrounded by people who were telling you what to do how to do it. When I do it all the time they don't really know they're just as long as you are right,

well some of your behavior and again I don't think she was excusing my behavior, but I think she was what you know. Sometimes, when you're, when you're fourteen year old boy, you don't need to be told what to do all the time. You just want somebody to tell you that you're not bad right and I think, that's kind of what she was saying and I took that and wow. So I had a teacher telling me that I was surrounded by people who often times are just as long as I am it, don't what the fuck they're talking about, and that's that's true at every age, yeah, yeah and I took that I took that an end. It could have been really destructive rum, but they also They also had a community that sort of fostered discipline with them so I wasn't just empowering insofar as hey do whatever you want. It was ok now take that attitude, but but refine it with a certain level of of scholastic enterprise or

or just discipline? And empathy too, I mean absolutely in order to to not take that the way of like well fuck everything you just gotta sorta like well. That just means we're all human yeah and there's room for discussion and and and and respect and yeah yeah and so that that kind of molded, my entire experience through through that high school and then and then after that, I I think, there's still aspects of thought that conversation that I remember yeah did you go to college no no, in fact it was a prep school, and I was the only person that didn't go to college, but that was never my intention. I just wanted to take a little time off after I graduated and and I did and then I just started like visiting my friends at various schools to see which one I liked and was just going to apply a little bit that year next semester- and I noticed that all my friends were- ah, they would just get fucked up, so you at which is great it's a lot of fun, but they weren't. They were gone. What kind of going last but kind of not they reckoned up insane amounts of debt and

you're, just hang it already ravages yeah yeah. I did like the full college tour. Because I know a guy nu yok fordham yeah, oh yeah, I lived for right. I lived in the dorms afforded You said that you know you're a sort of around this group but they hang out with an sort of ruin for you just a guy that wasn't enrolled, but would kind of hang out and go to class, sometimes yeah. Well, once I decided to add that I didn't want to go to college cause. I just felt like a lot of respects. I was too immature, like I wasn't really ready for it. I thought I I think there was like a certain level of social conditioning that that's important in college, but also you know I I just didn't, have the you're yearning to sit in a classroom again for for awhile, but I thought eventually that would come back. Yeah, and so I thought well, let me just let me just take a year off and then in that year I just saw I dunno it. Just seemed like a big waste of time to me.

It didn't seem again away saving money here, yeah yeah, I didn't make anybody's learning anything they were. They were just preparing their. In my mind, there were just preparing themselves for a for a lifetime of debt, and maybe I don't owe secondary school after that or if they had universe, specific goals which I didn't find than anybody dead, whether it was like medical or law school with you, barry with with with my particular maria and and so I just thought well, maybe I maybe I won't go so. I moved to new york and that's when I lived, if afforded in the door I got an id and everything you did yeah. How did I wind up getting? I wound up talking and I got a meal plan. I wanted to talk to one of the guys there and he hated the foot. He hated the food, but his parents of bottom this meal plan,

So I made this deal with him, where I would give him whatever the meal plan was a couple of grand or something I would just give him like one hundred bucks cash which can cost him anything his parents were proud. I would take all of his information. I would go to the er, you know to the registrar and they would write me up like a like a a new id application. I would go to the id the security office Would just no questions asked take the picture, so I had this iD that not only got me everywhere on campus, including the dorms and the and the security gates, but got me into a meal plan, so I was, for all intents and purposes, a student at fordham. and I'm gonna class sometime I would offer classes. I wasn't. I was a non matriculating student, but I would go and I would sit in some the causes that interested main like why Well, that's what I'm gonna get got american history, so I started going to some of the history classes aegis like you're, going to college thou pan the end. You got free food and freed roman borgia

yours. We value for. I was yet actually that that there they lived in ailments, sweet, so one of my body from high school. They had it seven men in one sweet and he had an extra bed in his room. So, for eight months I mean entire school year, their entire sophomores school year. I lived a forum as as as and the student resident and they have the brought another that now you know how they found out. They found out because there was a play. and I had the good looking back was a really dumb move by was making lots of them. Of that point has had a good thing going, and it was angels in america right and I audition for the play, because ever father. I was you know student. So addition for the play I get, the part right

and out of our like the husband, yeah, the husband and at Joe area have yet and ass. I get the partner, I'm superb side and to get the first ever rehearsals. In the end, the directors like either the student you know he's he's while he's cool, but then there's like this older. woman and she's a clearly like an administrative roles like that she comes. He can I talk to you for a second us fuck. I knew right away you, so it turned out that the that the kid who was also up the role but didn't get the role rightfully right, rightfully truth as it was a student production, and I should be all students, humanity Let me out there they were like. Who are you? What are you doing here and, as I just said, friend of mine. I was interested in the play in land, luckily they didn't they, they they started to sniff around by that point, the school year it ended, I moved I moved out got out. I got out, they really come over. They they can charge you with anything.

real, maybe know something they definitely take security very seriously up. There cause it's kind of a rough section of the bride, so the fact that a that a person was able to just they probably wanted you to go away yeah. They wanted to just kind of forget about it What happened was that where you first started doing the acting? No, no, I I started in in school, I I just cycle and it actually grew in grade school. I started doing like musicals and plays mostly because I just saw that I was not a good athlete and I want I wanted to be there. I tried to play every sport and nothing really took. I think my size had a lot to do with it heartbreaking, yet devastating, devastating and lose all my all, my friends, you know we're we're able to we're able to compete in in in some athletic endeavor, and I'm I wasn't so, but then I found this, and this was a great way to meet girls. That was there to do musical Did it were not as a grown up we know and you are aware and in an eighth and ninth grade, and so then because

an all boys school there were. We had sister schools are all girl schools and they would do these plays and they would need guys to do the place, so I would just go and do those plays, and that was That was that he had had to go without the hospital every day to rehearse yeah, and I had so much fun. It was. It was just a great way. It was just something that and then I was kind of good at n and it was a great way to meet girls and a great way to to to to have something to do. Do you remember that? Do you remember your first way? Sound music really did. I did the sound of music twice and played both at like once, and I played the younger and then years later by the older kit, and did you do drama and everything all the way through high school? Not all the way through? I started tapered off my senior areas I wanted to get drunk. Hey all my friends, but but then and it never. It never occurred to me that it could be a profession now

while a fournier was so that first ye year when I was some at ford when I was a yet while before that, when I was just kind of coming back and forth, and then I realized Oh wow, like people, I've met, have a professional actor and was like oh yeah, that's an actual who profession. It was just a guy who auditioned new york, marshals and stuff. Yet so he introduced me to an agent I wind up, because I looked so so now, one of like my one of my like greatest sources of of stress in my life was that I'll always look so young mere small. Now it was a it was it was. It was something great because I that I would get hired to play really young. So as actors, you know you only get. I think, six hours with a kid under eighteen or whatever it is, so they are always looking for kids. Eighteen to look to play younger, which is used one in my show, their girl eighteens, you forgetting. So when I was eighteen nineteen, I looked twelve, thirteen and

is I would get roles is like a thirteen year old, and It was somewhat humiliating, but at the same time, was like fuckin, I'm workin here, so you got this agent from this guy. Referred you in there, I call my god. We got one we got like a mantra yeah yeah yeah I got it and then I was so I was living in the in the bra I moved to new york. You know like a couple hundred bucks, but I was lucky cause. I had the meal planning and room and board I'll take care of, and I was working. one of getting a job working at a bar on the upper west side. But then I was just taken the subway down for additions and- and I started doing, commercials really would like a lot of them. I did bunch and I did a lunch yeah I mean as as a nineteen year old. I did it. I did a ton of of commercial you're, making a living yeah yeah I mean at one point. I I made enough that I could quit the bar. I got my own apartment and I thought oh. This is

in new york. I had my first acting job. My first like professional, acting job outside of commercials, was for a movie called the devil's own and it was harrison ford and brad pitt. and I remember that was like the west ease or something or some was sort of yeah. He plays a plays like an irish, an ira hitman our so so so I mean I had only lived in new york city for two months and I had already gotten this job and I was Julia. Stiles was the actress who played her boyfriend and I had a scene with brad pitt and a scene with harrison ford in a scene with julie styles, and I made some money and it was like. Oh wow. This is this: we're gonna end. So a year goes by the movie comes out. I get completely cut out of it as if I'm not even like, not not even an extra like argued, and, of course I told my family, My friends everybody's they're all sitting there watching the movie enable an ongoing, and yes I am, quit. My job I mean to me, it was all gonna, be rose grave,

and then I started to look a little bit older. Now I look nineteen or twenty or to anyone and now is competing against other tool. twenty one year old, rye and nothing that I didn't work. For you know two years I had to go back to the restaurant or the bar and start me a bar back in bartending. Again, oh my you have brought the family out, o everybody. I mean I've ever but again no word on that. You know they don't give you the head. That's happened to me twice actually and the second time I got a letter from the director which was what was the second wonder boys The much was michael diverse, yet Michael Douglas and and kate, homes and again I played somebody's boyfriend, a plague. The love interest of king it's like a minor yeah, the yeah yeah yeah. It was a minor gonna be minor role like four five senior, something like that, but this was after the devils yeah and I'd already learned my lesson. So I was like alright well, we'll see, we'll see what happens, but again it was a big. It was a high profile, kurdish hands directive, I loved from l a confidential, and you know it.

months. I was that, after only confidential, this was our after Alec was like right after right right and he was so called to me. We were staying in pittsburgh yeah. I had dinner with him just me and him, and he was talking about l, a confidential and and then like a month before the movie comes out. I get a letter in a letter. You can talk to him. I know yeah and he said: hey look man. It's it's got nothing to do with you and of course, of course it has something to do with me, but either way you know it, it didn't make it to the movie, and so I was just happy and glad that I adds up the edit yeah. That's nice sites are now you're back after big movie breaks you your bar, tending in bar backing, yet in in what we live in brooklyn I thought I moved from the bronx to Brooklyn. We, were you getting discouraged? How agree twenty one? yeah. What happens? I want one twenty two then I was just like I was depressed. I wasn't work it all, and so they complain, but not discouraged now depressed. Why was discouraged, but I I wasn't ready to like

Racket. Writing never any of my mind. and then I was complaining, and so my my my manager was like sick of me complaining about all the things I was your manager nick frankel who's, one of the producers of my show now yeah. He he said. Look if you wanna, if you, if you want to read something that you like, why don't you write something? so you're at twenty, I think, was twenty or twenty one. May I maybe twenty twenty one until ah, I wrote something: but was super dark. I mean I was never. I never consider myself some funny and I never going out for a comedic roles. First, ever there first preppy was the first girls, I wrote yeah yeah yeah and I I dunno. I thought it was pretty good, but you know he he need to get other opinions, and so I am I gave it to nick and he thought it was pretty good and we we wound up sending it out, not a comedy, not a comedy, don't know like,

dark gum? People dinah yeah yeah, like yeah, was like like a like a you rip off and dumb. We want up, I want to option it to accompany and then then not pulse, raider thee. the director directorate and ran on to direct why I saw have been dark. There was- and I was wondering if that was the place of my that. That's where I wasn't my life it there I mean just the life I was living and working to working at the bar. It till four five five clock in the morning we're gonna have actually been all day. You know worst cat yeah it was both the worst. It would oscillate between the worst and like the greatest shoes. I was still twenty years all living in new york city, I'm right for them, there's something about that sunrise. That kind of like, sometimes as I got the worst another tanzania yeah yeah yeah it will. It depends like. If I was on you know drugs, it would be the

worse. But if I was coming out of the out of that club, having worked an entire night and I had a sock full of cash, I'd keep my money in my sock. As I took the the returning the d train back to what corporate worker I worked at a bunch. I worked at a a bar called bourbon street on the upper west side. Your club called venue here and, and then a couple of res It's up there, but you would get out. You would get out for forty thirty, they would close at four and then you wouldn't get out after cleaning up till four thirty or five right. So I love that when I would have a sock full of money and I would see people up and like going to do their day, it felt like I accomplished. Writing it. Isn't one word that they didn't understand: yeah,

yeah yeah, all right, so schrader signs on straight assigns on and it was it so I and when I got that call that Paul schrader was going to direct this movie that I wrote, and it was the first script that I that I had written. I I I I was hoax, so excited you know. I mean this is going to be like such amazing experience, to learn from him and to and to figure out what my places in in the industry because at that point I was really confused like will. Maybe this is what I want to do right and then I proceeded to have the the worst, the worst experience fer a little over a year with him, Yeah, but it wasn't necessarily because of him, although he says he's a strange guy, but is also a really interesting idea: brilliant guy, then I learn quite a bit from him, but you know he wasn't looking at it like hey. Let me take on this. This young apprentice, which are gonna hoping for your outright. It was more like look. Do this and do not do this?

then I'll. Just take it over a fixed description. Yeah. I got it yeah and, and meanwhile the op, I learned the difference between an option on a sale which is when the option it means that they're just buying the rights to it and they're not going to give the very much money. So really I want of opting for very little money and the company was kind of shady and it didn't they. They was likely. They were supposed to pay you. I certainly it didn't common and weeks would go by and meanwhile you know I'm I'm I'm working at a fuckin bar like I want to quit and be a professional something writer and so I wasn't able I wasn't able to do that for for almost the entire run of that year and then paul to go in a different direction. That can I was doing it because it was Paul and I was I guess well yeah said. Tell me what to write now, write it and I would write it wasn't good and it wasn't good and it wasn't good, but he was seemed happy with it and but it was taking it note, a direction that I didn't like and by the end of it, so that the options up and and Paul had just signed on to do auto focus,

which was that great, but yeah that that bizarre movie, I loved, I loved it fucking great yeah, I loved it. I love pretty much everything that pulled off my guy that scene, where they're, just both sitting there on the couch jerking off, not looking at just talking a remember that one so that's kind of like now. You understand my experience for the better part of a year with him. It's like he wants me to write things like that, would you gonna, which was challenging but fun, I wonder at the end of the year with this movie that was not mine or not. You know just what didn't feel right. to me, but I thought oh well. I did my job right. You know Paul you'll go maris movie and that will be a great you. No great thing for me in and they ll buy them and so I get this colonies. They say woke up paul, just sign on out of focus. It's going to be at least another two years, and- don't know we're gonna buy this eventually, so maybe we'll just hold off so they have your fuckin year of yes, with no really no money and not a great cry experience teaches. Had you put your script yap

and I wonder what nothing, except a great learning experience and no resentment towards false rigour. No, no. I mean it because I didn't have that great of a person. I also I realise that I did. I did it. I had every point. I have the decision. I didn't have to do it. I could have said no, also wanted to learn in the way that sort of like well, maybe it'll, make me seize of the different way and then, after a certain point, you're right and that's just not a cause he's not now and by the way it's not doing it for him, either roar the studio who eventually passed on it. So at the end, He was likewise latona will say, and that was it for you. that did you ever have you met him since I have not seen him since now, sir. Yes, oh that's a year. I doubt he would remember me at el right through. Okay, so you do a year that and then what happened yeah and then I was like well fuck that I don't want to do on I'll, just go back to being an actor and just auditioning cause that just seemed like a miserable miserable. When did you make the move that I moved in two thousand to two hours That was so this I'm really gonna do do it. That's your you that your decision like and I was me getting away from an ex girlfriend,

I really I was like miserable and tat. I was just in a really bad place and I was just doing a ton of drugs and drinking an iron in new york. and stay up all night, and I had a little bit of money. So I will do in the blow talking a latin, out dalia here. While I was so interesting by conversations the oh so interesting, I bet man It is cocaine in here and I'm the most interesting man. You got all the answers yeah, I figured it out. What am I gonna make so many plans tonight, yeah yeah, and you know when that sun comes up we'll be on that boat to staten island. You know cause that's the plan that we're going to go to the we're going to go, the statue of liberty. You know we're not going to let this right we're, not gonna. Let that code, hammer hit us over the head now tomorrow, right working day, we gotta deeply with, it all figured out. We got it up, I remember having real problems when, like the dealer, prison manhattan was so great uneasy discover dealer will come to you.

so the dealer would come when with the dealer would come to the house in the one day he came to the house and we realized that always, ladies late, what what's going on, and we look at the time and it's nine thirty in the morning right we fucking called it like an ecstasy dealer or something come at nine thirty in the morning, and that's when I realized like this is this ignite is not good and you've been up all night and you're like what the fuck man, where the fuck yeah my third ecstasy billows and we're. Finally, wearing often only I need him to get here, and I know it's light out, but I'm hoping it's like no six I had still justify putting that last year of the worst in the past, and I know that's the worst thousand. That's that's the do you get to that point of exertion where you your you become so removed from anything that looks like a life You have any so insulated with the three people that you hang out with it.

Yeah. You know you, you know enough and you ve read enough when you see enough to recognise that it's all careening towards something I hope it doesn't end and it doesn't end with like I got it. I figured it out, I'm the guy that figured it out. That's not the way that story you know, so you ran away yeah. I gotta I gotta. I gotta I got outta, there was, did you get out dramatically like just? I gotta go tomorrow, Well, there was war. There was one: almost there was one night where might but this, but we were halls hopped up on something and we decided this is the night we're going to move and me and my roommate packed by had a minivan. I had a I had a fucking minivan was my first card buy in brooklyn and we packed all of our shit into this minivan. I have a oh yeah I got coped fuelled haze frenzy and we're ready to rock we're ready to go. We then an and he drove, and we got through the town,

well and we're on our way. You know like an l and and to l a yeah and he just pulled over and he's like man. We wanted. What he's like. I gotta go to sleep. I'm like! Let's, let's find a mate when we wake up. Where are we keep going west? We don't go east. Keep going, we don't go. Is right! Yup, okay, great! We wake up he's sitting on the edge of his bed. I get up, I'm mike, in east? He goes yeah, we gotta go. He turned right back around and go back and it was so humiliating because we had like we had friends the building and we like wrote, written them letters. You know like goodbye goodbye letters, and you know like sitting our selves like content tat. You know, like treasure, right yeah, you know you're gonna go yet yet so we're right in these like these, these these fuckin when you're our gas lamp poems in our language, at what we're gonna go, we're gonna go west young men, and then we came back into like they wake up. They see is there of course, were sleeping at four o clock in the evening? I would not only be here and there and they look at me.

letters and they're like what. Like all the more belongings are a garbage bags in our apartment that we had fact. packed up, ready, ready to go this pathetic yeah. I did you explain it to him. Idea and Luckily they were all you know they. They were at the same point in their lives. So like we get it yeah yeah yeah, they got it so, okay, so how long after that did you? Finally, Then it was another year. I think that was like around two thousand and one I wanna coming out. Two thousand too. Jesse had no replanting and audition may adapt. Vienna got a job. Bum waiting

tables where you go on an audition, and I was working a little bit here and there. You know bit parts tv shows things like that, but you know nothing, nothing really major and then, and then that's when I just had this idea that I wanted to write something else. But I didn't want to go through the same process that I went through before I want to make it. So what was the? What was the hold? b you'll beat it out for me. Just like I'm going to write this thing yeah I was living in this garage or in west hollywood and garage. I was living in the garage yeah. Much like this one would be

someone's hair. Besides the white house yeah beside an added kitchen and yeah yeah, yeah and- and I just had this idea for a for a short film about two incredibly self centered and socio almost like sociopaths, and I and I wrote this scene where one of them comes over to the other one's house for sugar, for this coffee that he had made and when he gets there, it's a guy kind of knows, but not doesn't really know that well and the guys like upset and and the and while he's there, he says some, you know I I just found out. I have cancer and the other guys all he's trying to do is just get the sugar and get the

out of the room he felt. The last thing he wants to hear is that this guy's got cancer and I thought that's really fuckin dark and, like that's a really dramatic scene, but I wonder if, if I told it from the guy's point of view who's just trying to get out of the room, could we make it really funny yeah and- and so I I just wrote, I just wrote it and then I thought it was kind of funny. So I wrote it like a script for it that night and then I just worked all night until I wrote the script and I thought there would be funny if there was a third character when this guy comes out of that scene with the sugar yeah when he gets home to his roommate. He says hey by the way. Did you know that charlie has cancer and the third roommate of his the guy's roommate realized that charlie didn't tell him, and why would he confide in him when he confided in you,

it becomes obsessed with the fact that that he year must be better friends with charlie, and I thought well that's an interesting dynamic something I hadn't seen before. Nothing about the cancer just that I would. Why would he tell you and not mean it that I thought we were friends, I'd even know you knew him that, like it'd, be sort of becoming obsessed with that I dunno. I thought that that that level of neurosis I hadn't seen in in a in a comedy before it executed quite like that, where the characters were just dumb were just you know, total assholes, like completely the antithesis of what a network note would be, which is to try to make them more likeable right, right, yeah yeah. I wanted to make something where you were were as writers almost like, actively trying to get people to root against them yeah, and so I brought it to Glenn and charlie and they thought it was. They were my friends and they thought it was really funny so how'd, you know them. Ah, I,

charlie, doing a really bad movie. Yeah are like a horror movie in new york, yeah, and so I've known trail him cause. He was like they're, a real actor guy. Well, both of them actually, both of you and Glenn, went to juilliard right. So he sort of the higher end If the guy in charlie wood did did like a williamstown right right right yeah, they were real actors, and I was just sort of like a scumbag waiter, yeah and so so how's it goin. Then glenn through our manager nick frank when I was the first moving out. I didn't know anybody and I came out with a buddy and it just it was just me and him, and so who was that guy, his name's chris Backus who's, also an actor yeah, although within I think, six months of us moving out here together, we lived in this apartment in the valley and we had a fucking blast. He's like this really tall.

Some. I charismatic I'd fucking great guy, so one one night we go to a up a party, a hollywood party. He meets mere savena. We are at the party area. They headed off within two weeks he's moving out. move in with mere within the year they're married and they still nurse still, ah their foreheads a while the good stories, great store and does he work or what he was my fault. I use my roommate. Am I friend that was doing and he moved up malibu without me. And so now I was all alone, and so so so Glen came round and year and and we and we hit it off so so that when when I brought the the script to them near and they they got it and we just started make it I'd. I'd sent the script to a couple of people just to see what they thought. Nobody really understood why it was funny, but I knew Glenn and charlie would and that's what we did. And then we got a couple of cameras together and learn final cut and figure it out from there and you shot

if our piece yeah it was like a short film. We never thought of it as a tv shows, rush or filming. It was mostly because I didn't want to. I wanted to see it all the way through to the end right, one, I'm somebody to fuck it up. Yet once short film right, you know I just wanted to. I just wanted to be done. I have it had it be a d, de in my hand, at the inn and like a and I fully realise, and where was it set alight? That's where we left but was set if the bar was just no no, no, it was just and it was actually a actors that the the characters were actors that make sense yet because it was, it was the easiest we were just looking for the for the easiest way to shoot it so to have us be actors living in los angeles. It was just really easy to show it. So now you have this thing. This is the cancer piece yeah charlie has cancer was the name of it and you didn't.

With that tooting yeah yeah, so that so so anyway, we wish we shot that we have that and then we thought this is pretty funny. But let's do another one, because we think this could may be a tv series and we know the first thing that people are going to ask is walker. This is episode, one. What's episode two and more importantly, see that you executed this, but we could prove not only to everybody else, but also to ourselves that we could execute this again. So we did a second episode Moselle whenever that was about me, falling in love with it, a beautiful transgender woman here and what is the problem while the problem was, was that I I couldn't get over the fact that she would she was. She was pre up, trust, transgender, sorry, she was this beautiful woman, but she still at a penis I considered myself straight, but I was falling in love with right, or that was in episode two and yes yeah yeah. That would want to once once of being an episode,

yes, so anyway, we had both of them and in that's what we went out with a sigh I showed at the neck, our manager. Yes, ever this could be a tv show em and then what happens when we shopped it we had. You know we had an agent set up and two days of of pitching here and, and we went to all the all the networks that we had, we didn't go to. You know places like cvs or a b c, where we knew quite well where point, but we went to fox yeah. Ah, we went to a fx comedy central h, b, o showtime v H. One was doing original content, then mtv here and we had offers from from almost all of them. Really they loved it. Yeah everybody except for fox. I think the fox just sat there stone faced. Then I think they were just. There was just run by morons at the time and not not that this was so funny. It was just they were looking for young there. They were looking for this exact gonna show like they told me. This is the right we're looking for and then they just didn't get it at all, but date where ends up on effects

so we had to. We had offers from a couple of different places, but fx was the was the place that you know cause they most of the places where we have conditions. We We want to buy it, but we have some conditions here and we will. I quote what one of the conditions and while we want to bring in a director- and we want to bring in a show runner, we re their and our feeling was what we, if do you like it yeah. Well, then, why do you want to do what he want to change it? Well, it's not that we won't change it. We want to make sure that you can continue. It might, but we we just did two of them. If you liked it and we did two of them. Why would you not believe that we could do a third and a fourth and the you know the fx was the only one that said you know you do whatever you want. because we are on conditions, whereas we're not gonna do it. Unless you know The show runner and charlie and glenn are executive producers and we write the show and we act in the show and then then fx commissioned a pilot right. So we shot that was right, but I had learned my lesson. I I I didn't quit my job at the restaurant, so I was, I was waiting tables after you shot her with during while I was shooting. When did you

cve of the the bar and everything else had oh yeah, so fx said hey. We. We really love this. The only thing that we would we would suggest his entourage was coming. It had just come out right and the show joey, which was the spin off of friends, and there was a a lisa kudrow, show that we're all taking. Asked kirby enthusiasm there all taking place in a way they were all the around the entertainment industry in rice said. Look to us the core of this. The tone of this has nothing to do with the entertainment industry, and I was like that yeah, that's right. It's just it's about abhorrent people who have time on their hands, so actors near could find a career, and so could people who just run a particular business, maybe at night, so they have their days free. So they said. Ok, could you come up with another another place? To put and so I thought what I know philadelphia- maybe I'll go with that and a bar in a bar, because it was a job that you didn't have to account, for we can, they could all kind of own it

It's so funny. It's a great meeting place right. It's it's just funny, because it is sort of like the characters float above the business yeah it does it. Doesn't you know you, you never worried about how the bars, Yet the business is irrelevant until it's not until we're figure. Well, let's do an episode about it. Right is right. We grow hundred fourteen of these that we get things up it out. Yet we gotta we got a story in the bar yeah. That's amazing, so but okay as you do the pile like that you don't quit your job and then oh, no. I was there because I I had just seen so many so many things had fallen apart. When did you quit your job after we got picked up to the m for the first season? Ah, okay yeah, once we got picked up for the first season, I I I was able I felt more comfortable there right all them this it did. You hire a stab yet has not not in the first he's in, but in the second season we start we hired a few writers, and now with and now we ve got a pretty good staff, yeah yeah, we got a pretty good,

it's sort of like one of those ones where I imagine it's got such a specific and loyal. Following that, the people that you would find his riders gotta love the show and they're like. I want to write these guys, yeah that that's helped Also we we went on a mission this year to find people us the younger people, just that that that grew up watching the show, which is kind of sad, but how many years has been on ten is that's insane is our tenth season you? How many have you made one hundred and forty, so that was the real number yeah, that's a real number yeah and that allows us to I, you know most shows if they're in their ten season, they've done two hundred and forty because they're doing twenty two to twenty four episode season, so we're only doing ten. So that makes it a lot. It makes a lot easier for us, but also was that. Does that mean this was that you were just able to sell it indus indication binding on you know. I think we saw that three years ago. Our scientists indication yeah because they had they had already commissioned two more years, so we got you should get picked up in it.

Blocks of two or three now so you're able to sell it under a hundred because he knew you were going to do one hundred yeah and they could start running yeah. So now it runs on comedy central and effects and and and on network late night, it's great man yeah. It's the bits that it's the greatest job. I dream. So what? What was the issue, though, like what was the story with was the show in trouble after the first season yeah when nobody watched it without the trouble, I would venture for know. Very very few and in what was going to have one person watched it that we know of which was very important. That was danny danny to be he okay, so So after the first season, the John lang graph, you know called me and said: look we love the shadow effects at effects here. He runs it. We love the show, nobody's wife, we don't have a ton of money for marketing right, but we feel like if we bring in somebody of stature that we could generate a certain of pr and and and and maybe it will find it so

we were like whoa. I wouldn't know who that is. Even so. Well, I know that danny to beat a watches, the show would you be interested in, and you know it we fought long and hard about it and we would like- and I dont we don't want to do that. If my fuck with the chemistry he might be a maniac right where you are well, yeah, of course, meet the area. Of course. Yes, yes, but but we had our the thing and we didn't want. We didn't know you just never know how or like if he was going to swallow it yeah right at or that it would it would it would. You know, mess with the chemistry or that you know. One of the things it's really important to us is that we create a really fun working experience. I had done enough, in the password godaddy sets and people are Leon each other and in areas fuckin pissed off, and I just thought with ivory run. The show will never do that. Will just no yelling on the sat river, but here to have fun, will work hard, but it's it's a comedies rest figure

especially environmental laugh, but if you, you know you bring in some some nut job and the next thing you know it's, it can crumble, so they could just become a cancer in the retina, and you know the right eye. I know a lot of successful shows that people hate going to work everyday cause. It's fucking miserable that sad, sad, got it like yeah? I gotta pay attention to that. My own life just like. Well, you remember that it it it it it it that it stinks from the head down. Right, you know so, whatever, whatever mood you come in to work every day with that's gonna, that's gonna permeate through the entire crew right right. So I think about that a lot I think about our. You know our grips and our caterers and are you know people with us for ten years and their like our family, and I know that if I come to work in a bad mood, it has an effect on their lives too, and so we try to. We try to keep that shit in check good, that's a good policy yeah and when we don't always achievable, we try,

Yeah sorry are devito, you you, you think long and hard about it and then what what's every meeting where we? What would he said? Firstly, said John, nothing against any. We love danny, but I don't think we want to do it and he said well, I don't think you have a show well. You know what I think we want to do I saw a great big work, so I but it s house- and he was certainly the most famous person. You know that I had ever. I had ever Since that time I've been to his house and it was a surreal experience, cause he's exactly he's the greatest guy like he has exactly what you you expect him to be right and the guy you see on screen is pretty much danny and so we hung out for an hour and I kind of pitch him a character that I just made up. We then really discuss too much about it and on the way home he called and said I want we'll do it so that we know we had a sharp wow made the seconds

and and nobody watched him with dairy with their wisdom. but was it fun, working well yeah, because he's so funny he's funny. Yeah he's the best and now he's you know a part of the family, and you know I mean that's that that it he's just been a great role model to have around. He he's got great kids yeah, who are raised. You know he here in l a and it's great to ask him questions and talk to them about how he did it, and you know certainly with such, points and in training and raising caveat, throw concerning When you may hanging over ovary major, because you don't wanna, have like a shitty kids yeah much. What were how you gonna solve that, what it said to me, like the common denominator, I'm lucky that their asshole fuck ups, that that that that cross, through all socio economic erect barriers

I I think the one common denominator amongst some really good people is that their parents paid attention to them and love them unconditionally and gave them boundaries and and just gave a shit showed up every day and and and and made sure that that their lives were important to them right, didn't let them get too far away. Yeah yeah three, our feet. yeah and so, and so I I I'm going to. Certainly my wife is and I'm going to make a concerted effort then to to do my best and then right- and I guess the other trick is not spoiling them too much. Well, yeah! That's that's! That's the tricky one! I think yeah, that's the that's the truth! Well, that's where the discipline comes in right and drawing a line on the boundaries are what we I always had, the I think my parents in some way they were never look at it this way, but my dad had the luxury of saying you can't have that because we can't afford a weekend so Islam I'll, put you on the same team right right, were in this together right?

now it's either. One of us can have it yeah exactly yeah. You can't you don't get to do that, but we don't get to do. That therefore brings us closer together, right, yeah and so, and so now, when, if I you know at my oldest son's axle, it's like, if he, if he wants some and I say know what I'm saying to him as you can't have it cause. I said so and you'll learn later why it's important isn't hopefully, hopefully but he doesn't understand that and it doesn't bring us any closer together right right right, you know, that's that's the! the ngos, and I am just as holding guy you I mean I could have yeah, I'm holding the key to your. You know in whatever you want gratification, yeah, your instant gratification, I'm not giving it to you and you, be when you're twenty five look back and understand why it happened, but you can't right now and if not drawing closer together, yeah I mean I grew up. I you know I always worked, but my you know my dad. He was a doctor. He had money like I did it yeah. It's weird. I didn't turn out great, so yeah

I don't think you do not bring. No, I honestly and have said this before. I dont think that I was ever taught. I get seems like whatever happened and catholic school, for you is important. I mean to be taught you to have, the sense of competition and that liking a winning and losing is not life, threatening, there's something about sports and about you're standing. You know your limitations in some ways around certain things when you younger with it, which would be boundaries and also about healthy competition. I think that is really helps you throughout your entire life, because in our view, if you're not carefully go through life emotionally, like a child, you know with entitlement and in not really having a sense of winging losing or taking the head in a dignified way? That's important yet learning how to lose whether certain mounted dignity, yeah is. That's, that's paramount, I think of it paramount to my high school experience, which cause I was constantly getting my ass work in physically. You know in sport and also like

you know I'm emotionally, like anybody is of fifteen or sixteen years old in and what they were. Teaching you had to do was to get your ass wept and then just keep getting up and learning. And and moving on, but recognising that, like their job, is to teach you how to win rather job is to teach you how to lose with dignity and grace and tend to continue on right now really import. That's you know the whole thing the decimal they arrive at your whole life is gonna, be a lot a series of of defeats and strong and now in victories but like, but just the fact that you know if you're not ocean. We fortified that you, your how you're gonna buckle under the first series of losses gap can really define your life. You can make some big mistakes. It yes, yeah, yellow yeah. I think we see you see that. Allow me one. I know it's like young people that we hire now you. They come out being told that the afghan under the gray, and And- and I understand that from a parents perspective, you wanna, encourage your child and tell them that their the greatest overnight.

over again, but once you when you're night, you know when you're twenty three years old and you're out looking for a job and you've been told you're the greatest of all the weapon. To this point- and someone says: hey, you know you're, not the greatest yeah and you watch people fucking crumble, yeah. You say that to him in auditions no auditions as the harass It's horrifying. I never know, but I think you're right and it's in it's sort of interesting to like, certainly in in certain fields like I would you would you tell your kid to like I dunno a danny, it's due, but I think he must have been a role model on a lot of a lot of levels in you know just in sort of you're surviving in show business period. You know I mean he is like this. Is nobody like him? the media media. I looked him all the time I mean he's got he's got a career that spend thirty five year. He it even fucking cuckoos scrape yeah any survived it nurtured it. You know any handled it like it. He kept getting opportunities, yeah

Is really nobody like him? No, you know I'm in each. He certainly transcends generations which, which I think dramatically is, is easier to do than chemically in oak. Ask com It's a hard thing to to disdain, yeah decided to stay relevant and he's able he's been able to do that, and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he seeks out younger people. I mean he says that taught to us all the time like what's funny. What do you think is funny cause I'll do that, because his his sense of humor, while while it lines up with ours, Very often you know he still recognizes that he's a seventy year old man, but he's also like he's an archetype almost like he's, specifically danny devito, so you're like if you just fill em up with something he's going to give you that thing yeah, like you know whether he's he knows where the the comedy is not easy, naturally gonna be hilarious, yeah well, yeah, and that a yes

learn that over and over again, when you see people like charlie or danny, who are just in naturally funny yet in you can't, that and you can learn how to do it. You know he doesn't matter how hard you work like some people can be clever funny, but their people that I just can't help but be like. I just work with Andy dick on my show he ain't there. Do you can't stop it in you know it may be annoying after it, times, but you're not going to yeah that that's why? What was so fascinating to me to hear dynamic? As I heard the podcast for danny Mcbride cause to me denim I may be the other way with a young person on on earth craze and the fact that he didn't really know that, for so long is confusing. But he wasn't that he wasn't a powerful. He never thumbs up with the performance zone in which you get in front, and people in I know you but he's in front of people's entire life. I know, but there's it there's a jump between like being the funny guy among people and then being funny guy for job yeah different, but

I should be so funny he so fucking funny. Have you work with him? No, we ought to be sure, I have yeah sure you know what I would go home. Sometimes I still go home to fully why my uncle? But you know like hey, hey, hey Robert, come here: yeah yeah, yeah yeah. You know who she work with tom cruise, that guy's good man guys really good mix. Okay! Thank you. They think that the some sort of like entertainment syndicate. Let my hands like that: do you call bill ma If you see me doing all right, he says that to me means you get bill. Marco no one ever recognise years except here, because it doesn't match up with the type of success. In in movies star land that they really. I get a lot of that. I wish to move star. Here's a movie star numbing, while I'm on television right right, but that at the summit that we must seek your rockstar philly, yeah goes really well unfairly. Fillies been fillies been fantastic.

I love you a lot. Those can, because it's one, those overwork cities in terms of justice, recognition, pirie yeah, so just by virtue of the title alone, there must be like a fillies a city with it, with a chip on his shoulder and and one that their proud of And- and I think the show has a bit of a chip on children. I think that they respect the love it. So you go back Do you get free food? Everyone Pretty great I mean this way. I got the key to the city, one yeah, it's pretty great yeah, it's it's been pretty great. I guess what I was going to ask you, though, would like. Would you stifle how old your kids form two? Oh, so you got, you don't have to make this decision. but they're like you, know, I'd well, I'm being actor. Would you say I would I would never allow them to be professional actor until their old enough to to make till their eighteen derived.

but I wouldn't discouraged that I would. I would encourage them to you, don't it to get involved in place and to learn, you know and ensuring to express themselves creatively button, but not as a not as a profession. Right I dont visitors necessarily anything inherently wrong without either I just not it wouldn't it well. I never thought it was. I never knew why. And when I like, I just I didn't know. Comedian was really a job the ethnic winterbourne was that moment. Why knew that? You know you paid a comedy clubs stuff, but I never saw it is like this thing. You have to focus on and, like you know, when I was younger about like it I never knew I never really understood, show business, what were you always? Were you funny you I mean I was. I was funny. I was quick eye with united clever, but I think that with comedy I really saw it as a way to say what I wanted to say whether it was funny or not and give a shit like I mean I just wanted to space to do it and I

we had a tremendous respect for comedy and I yeah and there I spent a lot of years doing stuff. That was aggravated and angry not funny, and arguably I dunno how many people like me as a comic oh, but but there was definitely a lot of years where I realized like I'm just trying to you know one myself appear: I'm not an entertainer, I'm just going to put you through some shit, cause I gotta go through it yeah cause, I'm going to put it out and drag you guys through it. Then you know what I'm getting paid to do. When I was a kid, my my there. We didn't have h b, o at my, but my dad came home with, like three vh ss, a full of george carlin's, h, b, o specials, and that that bullet blew my mind. Oh yeah, it was the first time I'd ever. I was probably like twelve years or younger. That was the first time I'd ever really, in a stand up comic. I write write, and here was this guy. Like it I mean talk about authentic and and bo yeah. You know and tight end

yeah, no fucking around man and yeah, and what he was saying. I was like what why my laughing at this like this is mine's well yeah and as a catholic too, I mean someone. I get up like you. If you listen class clown Jesus, you as a catholic first them again, awesome dear. But your work and the bill burner yeah distracted, a pilot with with dilber star, though we are, we created he's a great comic. We again his eye, actually the these two brothers who work for me dave and John chernin. They they love bill burr and they they write for sunny and they were like hey there's this comedian, you gotta see and I'd always heard of her but I didn't, I know very well. They they took me out to a shelf. Isn't your eyes like that one of the best of it so funny and we met him afterwards, worthy such a nice guy, and we thought what this could be some interesting alchemy, so we not want a couple of different ideas for the better part of a year until we finally landed on something we really liked and the guys went and executed a script, and it was really

Annie bill thought it was funny and we made it out, come out really good and it's for effect. It's for effects we just delivered on friday. We'll see you never you never know, but it's a great cast and bills. You know bill's great. What is this other thing you got going, the movie yeah yeah, I'm done movie that, but that just happened right just happened: yeah yeah! I just- and I just sold it a few months ago- but like that ale different, the way you sold it is similar to wake. You know you just take things in your own hands. How did that go you? What what was were added that government yeah. The the movie is very different from sunny right. It's not a comedy its family action movie safety. and dumb. I knew that I wrote it and I knew the writer but a year ago, what why would it be a difficult sell? It would be a difficult so

be difficult cell to have me direct it right just because there is alive, it's just a big big in scope, very expensive movie and I'm known more for small in scope, comedy dark, comedy the dark matter. What's the the pitch with the one line, I don't think I'm really glad to talk about it since I are rarely since I sold it yeah I mean before I could talk about it a lot, but now I'm like signing n D, a's and all sorts of genre, but it's it, but it's a big family and it's just like a big scary family. She called you a couple months ago, yeah. I know what I've been avoiding you for. I know years I know and understand yeah if I had to happen eventually so so how did you

salad. I ah I took a a scene from it and I went out and shot it and I called in a bunch of favors. I mean one of the great things about employing people. For you know the better part of a decade is that there and also treating them well and fairly they're willing to pitch in when you have a project that won't pay them in the in the present. But you know hopefully will will become worked out down the road and so a lot of people jumped in and and and helped me out so over a weekend I shot a scene from the movie. I hired a kid actor and I had this company up in northern california that did all the cg and there because there were big sunny fans and they also liked the script.

And now we're going to use them to to do all the cg in the movie. So you did a big monster movie, so a big cg trail yeah yeah yeah like how much that costs not very much because of the france yeah, because up because of the friends and because because of the amount of work that was put in- and you know from from all from everybody, he asked the board ram. You know it, it didn't really cost very much at all. So that's exciting yeah! For now you can, erect a big move here, is that where you see your career going as that's what you'd like to do, yeah yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is sort of what we were talking about earlier about how you know. People just have this thing, like some people just have this thing and I think we even with dramatic actors. The same thing like you know, sean penn is just a great actor. He was born that way, we ain't just has that presidency has that that charisma- and they are often tom, hanks charlie day, danny ainge gland,

kate, when all the people on my short. They just have this thing, and I just don't think that I have that and that's not even being self deprecating or or even practical is being practical, knowing your limit in asia, its roots, recognising my limitations, absolutely, which I think is a big thing when, as you grow up that you have to recognise that you know you can't do everything in that's. Ok, I need to stop comparing myself to people. You know that do this thing, because I can't do that thing that setting we're dark matter. Oh yeah, that's right! That's! I hope you think the wording to be able to accept that stuff and really sit yourself down and go like. I can't miss the acid suede is yeah and you finding. I find myself doing it still doing it all the time where you compare yourself to certain people. You know it's like I mean you look, you look at tom, Brady and you're like why the fuck this guy so fucking handsome or any such a good foot like. Why can't I be more, I can be a good football player like cannon have one thing, and then I'm looking at the tv and unlike what can I have one fuckin thing you know, and my wife's, like what

what? What more could you like? Is this what you this? What you wanted to do, give it he's playing foot by look at his chin. I could shy. Oh yeah, oh yeah, like a like, like a child using someone else's success that you you're not even in your wheelhouse at all, just beat yourself up and it's so so that doesn't mean that I can't have a really great career, but I'm never going to have the you know, I'm never going to be, but your specific type I mean you've defined the sink for yourself. You are, who you are people know like your. Your your sense of comedy is very specific yeah as an actor and as and as a writer and you know new director because I mean do other stuff, I mean I dunno. Why do you do mindy show why just for fun yeah well sheet. She we became friends just through the like this, those show runner circuits and dumb we said hey, I have something for you and I said on. I don't really know I love to act and or aren't like to do this kind of stuff and guest starring in there and she sent me the script and

funny- and I know some of those people over there like ike baron holes is so funny and rightly so funny and they have some directors at over the greatest Yet every some sign is great and they just they. They create a great fun environment should fund and at what about with lost a loss but that came about because Damon lindelof and a couple of the other writers, Eddy and Adam were really good. They were fans of sunny and became friends, and one day they called me and said: hey we, we wrote this thing for you. Would you want to do it and that's a free first class trip? hawaii right to be on the biggest show on television. So why would I do that? That's no brainer, and so how long you been married now five years and you met her on the show just I heard you hired or net yeah how hard at work you know, your fallen in love with her season to ya yeah. We didn't. We didn't really. She had a boyfriend of time and yeah, but but but I just

for as a friend and and and employee yeah and then they broke up and then I dunno something just started to click I mean to me, you know I I I got the grit, I mean I close the circle. It's like the greatest woman. I could ever to me she's the funniest woman working in show business. I mean I, I it it's nice that you respecter. Oh yeah, I respect her. I love I mean a as a as a as a comedic actress, I think she's like brilliant, maybe the funniest person on tv, but as a as mom she's, like the gore, the greatest mother I could ever met. Everybody should have a mother like Caitlin. Ah that's so fuckin sweet yeah man, you live in it, I'm living it a relief.

to me like he early on you were you know, kind of a given a fairly good framework to yeah kind of move through and and yeah. He knew you know you, you didn't. Let yourself get to you. You pulled yourself back from getting too fucking lost yeah. I had a lot of help, but yeah yeah I'd help. While I mean my parents in my school and my friends and by mean it didn't seem like he ever got near drifted into too far into drugs to not be able to get yourself out. No, I think my. I think my ambition was what now that happen, I think, if becomes weird and hard, I mean that seems like directing is the right way to go and if you can get into that world and the appeal, if you pull off this big one and be great, seems like you'd, be a maid guy with that thing, but

Acting is hard with the movies making the jump from tv with established characters in the films yeah. We also find that, like you hit a certain point, you go well. When does it start to just happen for me and you realize that it never does you just have to keep me very few. People just get offers for things and sit around and read scripts and just get offers, and then, and even I do that last for three or four years and then it's over. Never I go. Everybody's struggling everybody's got to be proactive, everybody. You know the the the the people you see that are working for twenty years that they're out there hustling you know but could like. Theoretically, you could probably retire right now. If you weren't, building, awesome, brentwood right, ah yeah, yeah yeahs are those guys, so you guys are comfortable, but you want to keep young ah yeah yeah. I mean come come comfortable is a is a is great I like being comfortable, but it's like just a very thin line to complacent and that that frightens me. So when I'm comfortable I've I've

You know that that's a positive thing, but, but I feel like it so close to being complacent, and I feel like that level of stasis is the end not only creatively but yeah yeah, but by the medically, I mean you could just you know, take a decade off and just hang out with your kids yeah. Of course. Of course, I have, but I want to do yeah and- and I I just want to do different things. So I did the tv show on ray nagin. I want to move yeah. I just keep doing something different. Do you ever think you're going, Get back to a movie like the one you wrote for schrader, yeah yeah yeah I like to do I like to just do different things. I mean like when you look at somebody like Paul Thomas anderson, and he had he defined that guy. You can't my god. I talked to him for two hours ago here. If that was really one of the most frustrating interviews out ever heard. Only because you want to believe that there is some.

said that he's going to drop on you that that's going to make it all click in your head or you're going to go. How does he do? Does he do it and he seems such like a dude yeah, I've known. You need to be. Morally, this, the guy that makes those boys needs to be more or less and he knew right have certain to hate ada. He just like a guy make a noise and you realize like it, so it's so inherit like his instincts. Are you just? You can't teach that he's not like? It's not a locomotive amidst do his vision and any don't have an answer for now. what are the Coen brothers, the same way, you ever tried to read anything about like their opinions of the movies they make they're just like. No, no, we just we just shot it this way, because we we like it and there's no meeting which is kind of, is it is, and what did you choose? You know particular angle because that's where we are with the cameron, we d shouted that way, so I don't know like purposely deflecting or if they really their instincts, R, r, r, that specific and an honed that they just do it it just

Have it just happens? If I get parties when its we're, because that's your vision, a moon, you got guys, you will work at that level and you ve got people like me and you and film critics or reading out all these other stuff into it. Yeah back. yeah projecting our own bullshit, like I am so hung up on like there was this like. I went to some class about you know semi semiotics class or something or I don't remember what it was, but it was years ago and it was in the godfather the first godfather so in the scene where so also is meeting with the don so, let's do it right, yeah, so they're, shooting, though also in in the frame you see, a green potted plant is wearing new clothes. He's clean, he's fresh he's young and then he cut over here too

where to you know to brando and he's like wearing a kind of drab suit. He looks older, there's old pictures behind him, like who's responsible for loading up. The frame like that did cop was say, like ninety more picture was the set director. Was it a group think like who the hell knows how that happens, but it is a commitment to the vision yeah like they can't answer all those questions would would you respect a guy? That said, the reason we did that is. We thought that if we saw up angle that it wouldn't I hear an entire history of bullshit about delay on you, well that there is the there's, the the professional and me that that yearns for him to say that so I can kind of get some insight ass to how he does it. But then there is the the person in me. That's like I fucked up guy right. You know right.

If you wanted to know what is there's nothing worse than hearing an actor talk about his or her process, it's like it's, so it's just irritating and I think it's irritating the general public, and yet you love and respect those performances. You know what I mean yeah, and yet you also want to feel like it's effortless. What why I think it is for some people. I think that's the weird thing about acting after talking, so many actors is like you can you explain it is really the best ways like some papers born there just could attack yeah. You got home if you can get better at her about. I it's like it's not just about creating a believable moment, because you lots of people can do that is how are you piling on a moment to moment basis. Yet you know yet washington is compelling on a moment to moment basis. I dunno why gene hackman, gene, Hackman wow, Actually I dunno why he always comes to sterling Hayden. I mean you know like you, just take lagging hey you just you. You can go back for the last hundred and fifty years and for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily need to be the best looking people. It doesn't need to be even the greatest actor they're just compelling to.

Compelling to watch well yeah, it's right, you're! Also getting back to the director thing it's like. Did you ever see that documentary about the the kubrick fanatics that the the the people that into the no, the shining or like it's amazing these- that these people that have all these white, basically conspiracy theories and in a way about their interpretations of the shining yeah and like they're, also kind of like well thought out and a little crazy, but like he will you start to realize. I could kubrick have managed to have all that in his head. Yes, but the the the trick is What are the I think? What we have to accept is that he might not have known it. Everything just comes together because they are honoring their vision, yeah, you know, whatever their whole life is brought to them to that moment, just like an actor and that that's what they're loading it up with yeah that mean they can explain it yeah, it's just that it's it's it's intrinsically a part of them. It's

their instinct and they're just doing it, so you can be able to do that. I don't fucking know how I'm going to try. Alright man was good talking to you great talking to you. Thank you for having me, it's alright, that's it that's our show. That was a. I thought it was a great conversation he's a good guy, sharp guy dude. Again: it's always sunny in philadelphia, curly and its tenth season. It's on the exact Wednesday night in the seas of analyses, are marching. T go to deputy up, dot com for all your wtf pod related business. The imagination. Tour dates. Are there. mercosur It can be a lot more merger got to after the tours from a lot of posters in there. Think I gotta work on the The two short designs: I will do that just copy dot com,

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