« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 600 - Sam Seder

2015-05-06 | 🔗
For the 600th episode of WTF, Marc goes back to someone who was there at the beginning. Sam Seder and Marc retrace the path of their contentious friendship, which reached its combative apex right before WTF was created. Also, a surprise guest who is staying in the hotel room next to Marc drops by for an impromptu chat.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The guy. I went through this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck's there is, what the fuck indelicate, what the fuck a very thin and what the fuck in high mors. Why not? Why not? And in time do you have any idea? How many of those have been submitted to me? Do you have any idea how many of those names and things that I've gone through by the way higher mark marin welcome to the show? This is deputy. If this is the six hundred episode of deputy f. Isn't that amazing is an amazing. The first episode was september. First, two thousand and nine recorded just blocks away from where I am I'll. Give you a little a little.
it tastes the a little taste of the history of of how far come right now, I'm in a hotel room in new york and Emily, I'm only about five big blocks and maybe a teen little blocks away from where from where w e F was born. The studio it was born in is near by there was an argument to be made that I I just maybe broadcast from that studio, but I dont think its air any more. I don't know what's in that building where the last phase the last incarnation the last a structural representation of air america. Radio once was, I don't know where's what's in there now, but I'm sure that that studio, which was state of the art in built, specifically as a studio for that network, I'm sure now there's nothing. It's just to just memory, just a flash in the pan of the history of a building on sixth avenue. But the point is on the show today for my six hundredth episode. My guest is: is sam seeder,
sam seeder is now the the current host and proprietor and man in charge of the majority report. That's a live, show it's weekdays at noon noon: eastern! It's a it's also available as a podcast. You can go to majority dot, at them to check that out, but salmon. I he was there at the beginning. He was there at the beginning of WMD Ef. He appeared on one of the first deputy acts as the guy stealing cable, I think, from from the air america studio that we were both recently fired from. I will give the backstory on that momentarily. What I'd like to do? How's your sort of a surprise guest. We have a surprise guest. I shall explain to you that did the deal ok, I'm I'm staying at it at a hotel where a lot of people stay. I've seen a lot of people here at the hotel, which is one of those hotels. It's it's kind of fancy, but it's kind of homey. So I was that
hotel hanging out yesterday and who do I see my old pal jack black, who you know jack and kyle have been on. The show tenaciously has been on the show I've known jack for years. It was nice to see him, It's year, two for the premiere of his movie. The d train, which I I know, starts in theaters tomorrow, because I was going to do a plug for it. We had a plug on the docket for the D train in my brain, I think, ah, alright great will Jack's year. Why not go a cost him instead of just being social and go hey man, I got my shit. I got my gear it's up in the room. Do you think? Maybe we could do a little thing about the movie that you're here to promote? Do you think maybe I could get in on that because we're all buddies- and he said I don't know- mark Well, I text to them and it turns out he's like literally next door and and now he's in my room. They ve been upset this hotel before No, but yeah. It is crazy down their deserve. It's a scene. It is
I mean, would you say I saw a lot of people really. I saw the girl that was in the woman, the woman, Who is on the cards? We shall know somebody ass. I was on the elevator with our today I was you were? She was taken, the other listen far she's with its whence it into your right next door. To me I know I was in a movie with her, so we have like a previous relationship in a friendship and an a bond that you don't share know she didn't know me at all at all, nothing, nothing. I said hi and she goes. I said how you doing she goes just getting started. You, and I said, I'm come good. That's pretty familiar out of the gate, though yeah. I guess I mean it's, not your average, not much. But this this hotel feels kind of cosy. Everybody feels like we're special here. Would you see? I saw the woman yeah from house of cards who was killed by the president? Did you say I'm like I'm sorry that that happened to you know, because I know what acting is. Did you
the disease Efron didn't. Is he in the asean millville, I'm like yes to europe what I really want to happen. Yesterday, super shuttle pull down front. I really wanted to major celebrity to get into the super shovel. mad, that would have been the best moment. Foreshadow. You really want to live close to the airport where you get the best deal right. They never once. Where do I go where we stop and this guy first humanity house right here, but the weird thing is: if you're on a super shadow here, you get to meet cool people, Jordan. I animal you know where they lay zactly conakry, beer, a dent, I'm coming over guy drought and eat off his visit. Look at me Neither your house, I'm writing down what What have you been doing? Promo just just just pimping, my where's yeah. I got a new flick and I'm tellin the world about it, but not everybody right were keeping a cool. Just turning
If it, you know very hush hush, I think the premier's in a back room in a bar somewhere, isn't exactly for some movies. You want just you know. Sclusively clients alone. Here, it's not for everybody what is a movie. It's a it's! A little dark comedy about insecurity. and about popularity and unpopularity called deterring here? What's ich about. I solemnly high school reunion. Yeah, ok, see popular guy at high school once things to be different, this time wants to be accepted, wants to be popular.
He organizes the twenty year reunion. No one is our sweeping it's his nightmare come true right. He hatches a plan. If you can get the most popular guy, Oliver lawless to come to the reunion, everyone will come played by James Marston. Oliver lawless incredible is in hollywood now struggling. Actor, but to me he seems like he's the king right he's made it cause. I saw him in a national television commercial banana boat for a this guy. Is this shit yeah? So I go to hollywood to get the to come. I am already telling you too much of the plot better, not a good pitch we're while it's a good pitch, but I'm not pitching only the movie, knowing my noisy thrilling, you a ticket right what they like. which idea cause in my mind with you that was the pitch you've already done. Some writing. Let me tell you something: what buddy this thing writes itself, yeah I'm told the era of their twist. Yes, there, a chance.
push them boundaries for real, really yeah. It's fun That's why I like to be sure it is your action that no not really emotional rollercoaster, yea area, emotion, explosion. It's not good. When you ask the question: is their action and the answer is no: that's immediately selling taken no barrier that sell tickets. Yes, I'm people go good. Finally, no action Some movie, I got an jack. You are action. I am action personify and you shouldn't even have to ask that I asked college eyes but I already I'm already compelled because it was in my mind what has to happen as you realize that guy's, not what you think he is exactly love that exactly it turns into. It may be a sad and challenging story. That's a wary! It's not easy! You know it's it's. It said. Sometimes it's very awkward! yeah and those are the moments I love. That's what I'm drawn to did you have fun making the movie yeah, I mean we made it very fast
may one day is really an and those are the kinds of movies I like to like. I did a movie bernie. We did that, unlike three weeks, people love them movie. It was great, it was a greater. have it your doing later jointly. I know I talk to him about it and I felt sure these are now feeling shitty again, look don't feel shitty to see it. It's not your job to see we're not selling that movie today, yeah we're, ok, everything's was available forever into eternity. You look well man. I feel that think for another, my my wellness yeah, how even in town just a few days, yeah a whipped in just day before yesterday and then whip out tomorrow. Have people seen the film what the response to the railways. Myers, we get. You know we want to sundance film festival in they loved it. That would debt who cares if they loved it. We got in you understand how exclusive
I know how competitive it is. I am not in that business almost impossible. There go make an independent film see how many times yet in the sunday What do you have time to do? My independent film I I've been I've got no pitch I've. Even I haven't even got an idea, but I would like to attach to it. While you can. I attach you doing and untitled on scripted. No idea the right now. Will you commit to a motel room? I e subject to availability. Absolutely So all the way- and I said A availability, good man, that's a vote of confidence. That's all I'm gonna, take it to the I'm, going go right to producers. Subject, you availability, jap, blacks in on an idea that I might have soon sold whereas everything has the family. The boys are great. The wife is great how the boys in eight years old, oh shit. So that's a boy tommy and sammy,
yet it they're they're doing a lot of screen time, which is really good when you mean like face time and suffered creates a lotta like ipad, just in television, so they don't talk to you at all. You just sorta like boys. No, I mean yes, New studies are coming and now that show that that's the good parenting, oh really, the ones that give me much screen time as possible. So is it true? I'm doing really know how such a good idea. They don't have that much screen time yet, but I have to come, come clean with you. They do have some sure, LISA bananas in the elevator and she she judged me pretty harshly found at them. A boys had some screen time. Are you talker shut up quickly, she's on a zero screen time policy. I bet she hasn't with ice or worse now, now that that's hands on mommy or full on organic beholding love, like maybe as feeding well into the kids teens yeah, I dont know. Studies have shown tat s, good taste, good,
something different as time goes on, so today's thursday May seventh yeah that film opens to me arrow friday a in theatres cross country, that's it nine hundred theaters, I believe, does that matter, how many theaters? I think you should. Maybe you should say it's. Nine thousand and theaters nine thousand at most theaters that have ever been shown a we got yeah. The move. Comes out tomorrow here? It is and comfortable little masterpiece, it's not for everyone just for people who, like really sophisticated, interesting, dark tales of intrigue right on the deterring that's a thank you. Ve been a special guest. My six hundred episode body is: is it
does this count as an episode? This was just a little, no there's more there's more. This is just a weird part is you're. Just part of a bigger episode was great, the fun starts and who else? Who am? I am sam, sam seeder. You know sam of course. Well now he's a political man raise a political man, but a very funny guy and a funny guy and he's the guy who came in I go back and we thought it was an approach. Has he always been a political funny guy or did the politics come later as he as he blossomed? I think he, you know he got more political, but when I met him he was a comedic actor. That's when I knew him yeah back in the day when he was doing tv and stuff and he was dating Sarah silverman yeah. He was around and then thing grabbed him. He said fuck tv, yeah. I don't need it anymore unless any money yeah and now I'm going to I'm going to fight the good fight. I see him occasionally on MSNBC yep, yeah yeah he's great guy. His gray is annoying, but great guy
and he's like yeah, but I'll say that I can say that with confidence, having worked with him, a lot that you're say that he's a good guy he's a good guy but difficult because you have to say it I like? I don't have to say it but say it you believe it yeah. I will good luck with the thing that expects better luck to you. You know that our surprise guest six hundredth episode, jack black everything everything worked out today. Somehow, but let's talk about sam seeder, let's talk about me and SAM Sedar. Let's talk about wtf, let's talk about the evolution of of where it came and and to where we are now me and sam, go way back and we're going to talk about that. When I met sam he was a comedic actor. He did some sketch comedy yeah yeah yeah. He had a thing that he was doing. He always very, very ambitious. He was making movies you there's a lot of stuff, that's him.
It was hilarious and I saw him as a kindred spirit and we were both them. Both the aggravated self involved, funny juice and I related to him immediately. We have sort of a a long's, you know start and stop history. He was in san francisco. I helped them out there in and then we he was there at the beginning of our america. Jeanne, grovel out on the air- and I was in the morning on the earth. We worked together there and but really that what happened before w E F started the year before deputy have started. A sort of painful story for me in a lot of waste. Is I don't know how many you watch break room live, but it was a lie. Streaming. Video showed done done out of the break room at the air. orders over there and six avenue? It was our big idea, but how did it happen? Many of you who have watch at will. She wasn't. Many of you may be a few hundred of you may have seen a break room. Why? But maybe you enjoyed detention and true aggravation
of the marriage cedar dynamic at that time. Let me try to explain what was going on there. Here's how w tat began in this sort of the little bit of an extended version? I had been fired from air america several times. I was the original morning guy. I was part of a crew. We did a great shout sam, always do in the shower Janine waiter. At night I was doing the opposite of SAM owes early in the morning, but we did a great show in the morning. You're in a half in more unnamed danny Goldberg took charge the fireplace because he thought that our america should be more like empires. We tried
tell him that there were already was an npr and we are doing some irreverent funny shit. We worked hard. We made good funny quality, funny top shelf funny and stern adjusts who have terrestrial. We were poised, we're doing good shit and that dummy Goldberg shot us down fired me, but there was still a couple of people within the organization that were like. We like marin. Let's keep him as a let's keep him in the batter's box, which would create a place holder for me. So I went back to l a defeated pissed off and they got me a show on ktrk, so they Got me attendant night in s time swat where they still at an ec out standing contract with a with sports affiliate. So me in general, who is my co house? You sit there waiting for games to end clippers games in some other team. I don't know so we do in our hour and a half showed depending on how much time left after the fucking game ended. It was siberia, folks it was nasty and then air america came
at ground and said new guy in charge. We want you to come back and do mornings. I'm, like you guys, still owe me a lot of money on my contractor, like that ain't happened and I'm like I ain't coming back, so that was add no more air america. For me, I go on with my life and shortly after that, my wife says I'm done with you and she leaves me heartbroken messed up. I was going through a bad divorce. Note kids, just spite money draining anime bankruptcy on the horizon, almost losing my house, I don't know where one of the old boots mare America Carl. He calls me up and says look there's another new guy would new money here at air america. I think we should take some of that money may, but in return give him a video streaming video I will do the daily show on the internet and you're going to host it and I'm like dude, I'm shattered I'm heartbroken, I'm despondent, I'm incapable of being funny. Ah, but if they'll pay to get me out of my divorce I'll, be there
Second, so I negotiated a deal where the new money guy would give me money to pay off my ex wife and stop the hemorrhaging, and I would do this streaming. Video show we put the deal place. I got to air america new people, new money. I could not even think about being annie. I was emaciated and just a fucking mess and I said well, I need my producer brendan mcdonald, he's gotta be part of this new pay him good and I need sam cedar and here because I am not going to talk about politics, I can barely talk about food right now and if we want to make this work, someone's gotta carry that fuckin way. So cedar of said, I'd get me some money. I got his money, but the problem is that sam is, is a pretty righteous duties, Dude is hearts in the right place and he's fighting a good fight, but I was not in defining that fight, so I fought with SAM. So we would fight constantly on the air off the air. But the thing about sam is incredible.
funny enjoyed having them around so that went on for about a year we're just alternating between being at each other's throats and having some tremendous, we great laughs, that's the salmon marked dynamic. So obviously the show doesn't succeed. I actually thought it would. Sam always was defiantly said that it would never succeed and we should just be happy to take the money whatever hilarious, true: we want the funniest people. I know to be honest with you. I do of sam cedar a lot so we get fired, but they don't kick us out of the office. Sam is your best, creating whatever his next thing is. Gonna be he's want sustained game; he wants to put together his and unlike what we gotta do something now brandon and I decide to start w f we're sitting there in the office would SAM, whose work in a bunch angles of his own, but call
where there is no way. I can include salmon deputy act because he was driving me fucking. Crazy now is at the end of my rope, but he was there. He was right there in the office with us talking about that. I think he credits himself with giving me the idea to do a pod cast, but you can hear SAM early on in these in in I think on one of the early episodes, but it's been this juan. It's taken me six hundred episodes to have sam on the show which italy, so that's that's something about our relationship. So is that sort of give you an idea? Are you with me? Do you understand the marin and cedar dynamic? Now, SAM seders put me in his movies. I opened his now famous some one who's, the caboose film. I was a. I think I was a cast. I I think my credit is bitter
guy at bar, maybe, and then he had me play a mandatory on the d, the series of the of whose two caboose, which I quite serious overman's manager. He also add me play a slightly nutty proceed. hasidic to a worker in nam in the bad situation is another classic sam cedar film. Seems like a lotta. You don't know that sam cedar, its confusing, sometimes because he's known in the political world for his pundits tree and his majority report fm them as as a political opinion later. Is that anything at the republican word, but also very funny, guy funny actor creative guy, a filmmaker Dear friend of mine and a his time has come, I had him, I I I put him in an episode of marin on I have c, which is very funny, and it and he's here he's here on the six hundredth episode, because he was there at the beginning and the
the way of marking that I don't think he knew he was going to be. On the six hundred episode recorded the when we record the inner if so there'll be no reference of that he was the butterfly that sent the ripples that changed the weather around the other side of the planet. Before I introduced sam, I I do have to say this that you know whether samurai, whatever our relationship is. I I do want to thank you, the people that
into this show and have supported this show and have been there for me in a way that I could never even imagine. I am a humbled and grateful to the people that listen to the show and it would not be. I would not have done this six hundred episodes if it was not for you people and that's that's the truth. If this had not caught on, I don't know if I would have had the fortitude if I was not doing something that so many people enjoyed. I don't know whether or not I would have had the perseverance. So thank you for listening to this show, and now I'm going to put you through something that you may find, ah, either entertaining or or challenging my conversation with sam seeder, at the cat ranch? The have you ever been to DC and done the whole thing. You know I've been to dc multiple times, and I, when I was a kid,
oh in college I interned in capital hill. We did so. He went into the capital of Europe and I've been into the senate chambers. The ants then, and- and you know, as you do in there just you know- basically ran around with my pants around my ankles just to see. If I could get now, a great writer actual you're allowed to do that. That's one of the few things that they let you do is part of the filibuster, longevity your fellow that's right, yeah yeah, those guys use if the hits indicates that you know it The constitution, if you're doing it with your pants around your ankles you're. Ok sorry, but I little subway they have underneath the capital, I mean I've been there. A few times is pretty amazing. I'm always overwhelmed with the ot and excitement when I'm there. You know when I was there as an intern? I was like I'd never want to come back to the city ever because of what it is involved in or just because of the way it looks. You just found it like to be a crappy city. It is sort of a crappy
but the actual mall itself with the museums, oh yeah, when there is sort of like while feels powerful and monuments. You know you stand there, though income monument like damn. This is big. We I mean this is thirty eight, this was thirty years ago to another hospital stand was not my parents, apparently than latian moment has been there for, like we had a long thousands of years, thousands, the egyptians built it the first elevated pyramids they were working on. Over a long time. I don't know I guess, as egg ignorant or as out of the loop apathetic as I am when I go there, very moved you now and again in a goat. I stand out for the capital. I look at white house to do all that stuff like that moment, warm welcome to be an american. I dont have emotional reactions to things but really cut. So I am I. What do you mean about you, I just don't. I dont know what to anything I'm mean you are along with your daughter. Now, a guy. I can see it. Your heads yes, she's, like this is real
person now and you're very excited about it? Now I've always been. You know, I've always been excited and you know ambivalent. I mean kids are not you know, but now I've, I love my children, that's good enough. I can say that proudly, let's, let's talk about a unique purse, how you sort of change tracks interesting process and people not like you're out there. What it's like an interesting live thing Well, you know because you're still funny- and you know still have your kind moderately now, but I think you're very funny how will taking always I always there was always a hope in my heart that you'd come back to the funny side and then it just never wins out. I know I try like this. get really closeness. Something really close, then am I await a second. You know I mean there. I mean, I think part of it is like there's always
something that is a nagging at me, Emmi, when you're for one year and being funny. There is necessarily a certain part of you: gotta take certain liberties, yeah on some level right and you have to use a lot of times. You gotta get very specific, but there's also some sort of like corners that you have to to cut to may and right eye that that I think it's like a like a like an o c d problem like I it it it just nags at you saying a lot of times, comedy trivializes the real issue: it's not a question of trivializing, it's just not accurate, so it's it's. You know it proves to be funny, rod its broad, its broad oak, and you know, and as you know, and then I'm like my way- wait a second thou. Technically speaking, you know time, recession, you dont, want the deficit to be shrinking, ran and then you know that type of I mean that's it very hard to make those specific things funny except
maybe one or two like you and you know right. That's exactly that's my business model you in a week what's his first, whom both Margaret ass, yet you Marcos could chuckle about that. There is I mean it is, I think, that anyone David's rota could have a right exactly yuck it up, but the possibilities that workin yeah I mean a pretty narrow. I do think that you know you're. That stuff martin joke. I think I can't remember what alma was, but I mean this was you know from like the seventies, whatever it was. Where he's got that joke? I think about going to the plumbers. I think it's the mors convention yeah, that's not a ratchet right and that sort of I feel like what mercury fits. that you know everybody me no everywhere mean that, like your, I know, my entire area is right and the other people by every night will understand that's right, but it didn't start out that way. You
What we're which I find hard to fathom, because my experience with MR as it when I started when I was in Boston, doing comedy and in college you drive to whisper to go the central or something and just look like to meet him. brain. I didn't member. I working at a parking lot, probably really at the center. We think You do know. The thing about was ready to three referendums. They get the central america's people were afraid of the outside element. So so have you a sense of like how shall provincial without yet all it yet parochial her ok yeah really so Worcester was. I gave them out. We wanted the at the other element here, yeah, really young, you That was, mr. When you were a kid, was it like to me: it was it it died, you have it it. It was dead, one was, he was, I know, is very big area aerials or that's just because That's my girl downward are really going to usher, harbours and move to worcester day like the start of I've got not people don't do that
now is a nice are now coming back right now. I actually think it's I mean it's fascinating. Worcester has just been made again like now The first thing that occurs to me we are hacked by this is that there were industrialists right and I've had arguments with people who have argued they could have gone back into the to the records to debate as to whether or not there's the validity of the story. So I should just say that, right, that there are people. They argue this that that nigh anymore, not outboard, right with the what you're about to say. Yes, ok, but my understanding is that if you look at the mass chooses turnpike as it comes from boston divorced, it should cut right through western. They rings around goes awry. I remember doing it and worcester at the time that this was built had some of the biggest industrialists in the country like wine and gordon and Norton. The biggest rates of company in the world, the company that dividing the m one garland rival the space you and they want me
and the ah the the sort of inexpensive ness of their labor force and by adding twenty minutes to ride to Boston, you do that. I e bay and- and they also, I would argue, kept just about every idea. Out of there, like you know, like the sting is just opening in worcester right, but how does it add twenty minutes so like they wanted their way reforms? I love your by no, in other words like the commute to boston near as the crop. as she fortify less yeah forty minutes yeah, but it really takes like an hour now. Because you gotta go down south and then get the mass pike and then come back up right and so you know by adding an extra twenty minutes onto that commute twenty five minutes. It means that the labour force is not able to move as quickly and in which there not a suburb of Boston, in which case the labour force would be more expensive right. They wanted to keep achieved by by keeping it worcester by keeping it.
Yeah, somewhat isolated, so, but second biggest city annoying. Is this something you realize what, when you were like, five or six or no, I think, probably closer to twelve, I mean I did. I was always heavily involved in was relocate part. It's not as a child I work for you and I was always sort of dual tracking and I was doing the vienna dirty variety oh and also student government. Then there was a charter commission, how do I get it? You were you it's doing, government guy yeah. Of course by would so your dad your parents your dad was his lawyer that is correct and he was they had a law practice in worcester. That's right and your mom was a a teacher teacher model, security and- and he had this one sister to scenario- two sisters you've hit on both of niger or just maybe, maybe that's the problem. You've. Probably I, furthermore, you grew up with John benjamin to John Benjamin, yet we talk Grano John benjamin attract and you guys reference yes
and what's the story, his mom, who they talk to- He was a ballet turned. She taught my sister right yeah. He cried out all the kids yeah you guys were it was zero. Our jewish community was just you and the benjamins. It was just us and the benjamins we will get together for a million, and does mean I not a huge jewish me, but a decent size one. But and your grant shrunk considerably apparently be back in the day, there is very, like a nice area, yeah I mean the wet there's the west side of western ryan. Then there's the you know the sort of the south in the north and east guy. I dislike me- was always like hey how I like that it was just well there's a lot of that accident in my family and you know a couple of beers. It comes out with me, but it's not there. it's a bad thing. I'm just saying I don't get you blew it, it's sort of like a liquor oak, our new england, yeah yeah.
Like I'm, not as bad law, your grandfather own, like a business. He was an attorney, an attorney to how ya know. That's the thing I went to law school for a year and when I dropped out the name of firm, was cedar cedar cedar behind. There were my grandfather's name with samuel cedar right and he had four brothers returnees returnees here on cedar cedar and then in my father generation it was like or other guys, but by the time I dropped out of school. My dad was the last cedar and the firm and I specifically remember when I left law school to do comedy, got walking into my dad's law firm and like the junior partners, were just like fall. You dream for you to give it I'll, just just moved out
really? Does your dad disappointed with you? Well my grandfather, passed away before I was born where oh really yeah where'd, you go to college undergrad, connecticut college with John Benjamin. Did you guys do comedy in college? we can indeed Did a radio show you and Johnny yes it was an you guys were best friends like when you were ten. No, no. We were arch enemies. When you were ten, ah probably closer to junior high yeah. Did you get bar mitzvah Why would beat up his friends at the bar mitzvah circuit right? You did the beating up on the bar mitzvah circuit, you thinking oh me were kind of about. Well, that's the thing is the you know I I did hear part of that the exchange and john sort of like a pathway- Why is he I mean he's a little bit reform but he's in a lot of what he talks about that stuff as it sort of is imaginary, but but but it seems like you're you're saying that
true that your europe now hazewrapped? Well, now I wasn't beating people up, I was getting it be. His friends were you know we're also boys, those just like. I was more like a like idle boeing murmuring again so, you guys were enemies, we wear it enemies, but then I think through high school, like I didn't, really deal with him at all and then not really what we do and we smoking cigarettes with the cooler kids. Now I was at a different high school and and- and I found out that use Where can I call gigantic the day before our eyes, and then I am an early hour to hour. Our doors are dorms almost the distance, apart from where you- and I are now just by coincidence by coincidence- and it didn't mesh with his roommate I'd, imagined mine. Then we went out and got drunk and the next thing I think I know there then John had like a one point. Eight two in that first semester, regroup? For you, I got. Thank god. You hear fine,
either we used into it at a gallop, all help that the drinking age was eighteen at that time and kinetic was there, but was there a moment where you I got fuck this guy I think I was. I think that was the night before. But you know I had got some from my roommate was that I thought was I he had sent me a letter, your roommate, before he got there. That said something to the effect of like we should get a refrigerator cause. I hear it's really good for coca cola's year and for a minute was a very awkward letter and at one point I'm like. Oh, my god, this guy's brilliant yeah this is Larry's yeah he's trying to scare the shit out of me and there's nothing. I do is not going to end and I got there. I realize I know that's not the case. He was just that we're. He was just control, we got yeah, he was a. He was a weird. control a guy and was what happened to that guy. I dunno know what happened to ever my first Ruby. There was not a good thing. None was in great
alright, so you and you and John you hang out you get drunk he's failing out of school you're, doing alright, I'm doing alright yeah and you're doing a radio show. Yeah I mean we did a radio show briefly sam, as John I will we will go on as a duo and he wouldn't say anything and that didn't go. We just did a couple of those in the on so you'd say something and there'd be just dead. Air more or less and I m thinking- is that only the rice nodded, but I think we used to like just who around with was stuff and but we Didn'T- they do comedy. I went in into a theater major and left very quickly and got more morons student garment. I was heavily involved, the sooner you stopping a theatre major, yet adduced Annie, I was a government. I ended up being government in religious studies. What scared you about the theatre so quickly it wasn't so much. I got scared as I was you know I was I was in the bird the programme. It was a pretty good, could do
socio eugene, o neill theatre in new london, and am I had two. There was campaign night to run firm, now, whatever was rise running for and I had it, bon midsummer night's dream on the production to literally like pull the rope to bring the whatever was the princess up? You know on the elevator, and went to the director and, I said: look I gotta come late tomorrow, night cause. I gotta, give a speech and the like. Well, if you're not committed to theatre than you're fired, as are you fuck and serious what I'm gonna? Do you one better? I quit everything so I showed that yeah overdo it would you name comes up, he probably gamut cedar. How did I let him slip through so that was that those that was the moment see it seems like that was
cathartic moment. That was the decision. I I'm turning my back on the arts. yes and then, and then of course I I you know, I have isolated, dynamic vision has continued throughout my entirely but wait, but in high school you're, a student government guy to student, our man I can get in there ah, I was, I think at one point, the vice president says: couldn't you couldn't really seal? It can conceal the deal with the president. Could you know, I never I didn't on another I attempted, but I buy still actually am in contact with the president. Are you are and we are waiting to return lesson recurrent is actually a pastor. Is yeah and I'm a baptist church down. I think I can turn off using land really, that's interesting and we're waiting waiting for the right time to vegan to have moved back in control again of of the high school high school student government, so all right. So so what
you get what you run for college there when you, when you turn your back on shakespeare, I were to go to to student. Omnipresent was presently classier, your present, the glass and present those students them both they just? Why not what I'm ok it's a different time. I thought known ran you like we, you do the other thing I was. I was very bobbin The girl, you soon garment, ok, cause! It's pretty. You know vigorous and we had divestment was a big issue. client- and I remember giving a big speech the boar atrocities in it was. It was actually a little bit tricky cause. There was pfizer rise in now. London adviser had a lot of work in south africa right it with the board of trustees, was meeting on florida good, though spring fling, that you know anybody, and I was a little bit you know, tipsy went in, gave a speech
and we divested and then the the chairman of pfizer resigned from the board of directors because of it cause. You know I dunno was me, but but the college divest it yeah wow at something that so to give any tasted the power there was a couple of of. Actually there was. I gave a search for dina student miami. There was a lot. You know I always contended that the the the dynamics more or less stay the same yeah, the stakes change, but the dynamic stay, the same, which is actually sort of disturbing when you think about which dynamics the dynamics of polytechnic. Ah it because when you start to realize- and you know I think over the years that that I've been doing it much now- I guess ten years been talking about politics and you know sort of like getting involved that world. You start to realize. Like hey, you know what a lot of major policy decisions are made. Just because
the guys of jackass liquid crystal buttons, a douche bag, and he doesn't like bill. Stephens is a real asshole, so I'm going to fuck twenty million people out of a fair wage, or something like that. I mean like literally yeah. That's what happened here and that's a really, I think, hard thing to wrap your head around because you really have to. I think that they've detached themselves from the the physical reality of what effect it has on people, but that ITALY, they ve detached themselves and it just becomes, is in house that I will ever attached to them detached them, and I think there is a certain amount of light. That is the sort of us right. Well, it's a sort of sad thing that we have somebody who gets involved in being a career politician with, really the the incentive of of working out for the decent anchises the underdog you gotta question there there their intentions.
Yeah, I guess, but I mean I think, there's a certain inevitability like these are the type of people who gravitate to these type of things and on both sides. I dunno, I guess I'm thinking of like Joe Lieberman and we could have like a medicare buy in at age. Fifty five yeah, you know, which would be great particularly for someone like yourself yourself, myself, nobody but that up our, but what's a, why didn't you? Why don't you get into politics? In terms of running I was. I was contemplating that, but you know I think I had my experience in college. I just felt like I don't want to have to live that type of lime of what for that, that you saw that. I have just like where you have to always constantly been putting up a projection. Oughta be diplomatic. Yeah two to be charming, thea yeah. I mean I don't know some measure of that and yet much fight in you. I think at one point I thought I was gonna go do that and then I got my congress yeah. I think, probably said
I would say you know it's ezra to three. I dunno it's. I just remember saying to myself like when I was working in like I'm gonna come back here until, but unless I'm like a senator, but that- and I I you know- I I at one point had the idea that maybe I would do that and and but I dunno something something snapped inside me, and I think you know I went to law school for a year and then I decide and when I had travelled for a year and then went to law school none travelled yeah. I went to australia for about a year. I hitched around australia and work there before I went to law school right when you after you graduate college yeah I had I I had in some fellowship to do some leadership thing that would have put me, I think, in like ST louis, where the per year yeah doing like a bunch of different like local stuff, and I just I dunno
I just I didn't want to do as I thought. Maybe I want to go into comedy what which struck that nerve? What's the comedy nerve, I had been performing like we should have this dual track throughout my through college through college. Do high school through performing comedy well. I was doing like that. variety shall arise, a comedy show catches. You are, and I was like doing magician thousand magician when I was a little kid. Well, yes, where would make money like shovelling, snow, undoing, magic shows for parties and stuff? What big stuff like escaping Tanks are just like seven six year old. It was basically like baby sitting, but you know how to top ads you that was basically eight or kid does magic here to get the three tricks yeah exactly so so that was, did the variety shows and then ok. So do you think, though, that of the reason why they want to get into politics is because, like even when you talk about policy, you understand the nuances of policy, but you also understand the the the fucking huh
break and never ending struggle to chisel away in deliberate policy takes years in its very and big. I would think it's like it. most like on gratifying and in its it's, you, you have to just quietly chip way there's not a I d ego in it. Some I didn't like the the the the sort of the public persona part of it. I felt like I didn't want to have to maintain some fake per cent Will they yet? They have to some tries to the point where you like. What's in their rights in very weird thing, man, I had that think. That's why I I sort of never went in direction, and- and- and so I want sky like my buddy jim- who work for Clinton, he got me into a photo. They might get Clinton, was doing a thing where at a at a rich people, fry a fundraiser and then everybody like they take pictures with him right and Jim was gonna sneak me and to take a picture with the president, and I it was almost like someone had,
turned him off like like. There was a switch right. I stood beside the president of the united states and its division. Now in there it was just he was just he had gotten. He had figured out this way too. Exist in this moment and what people right and then move ask him, but I never had that feeling white words. So detached was a bizarre literally hundreds of thousands of people that you ve got. It take their hands and that's what that's all they do. So that's their biggest challenge is to figure out a frequency at which to engage with the public yeah and then the rest is just a bunch of guys telling them different things. A guy. Okay, that's a good idea right! Oh yeah! Let's do that I think there are some substance. You know the euro, depending on the politician. There's a there's, a lot of substance that area in some more than others. You know put on that persona have to, but you know to me it is felt like I don't wanna. I don't want to do
I mean I think it for me. It was like tat. I What did I deny myself by not being able to be drunk and the student union in you know to reduce it down to its four lowest, but but comedies ike. Weekly different. What was compelling towards that? Just the like you liked making people laugh you like me now in our countries, accurate and so were yeah. We ve talked about our right now here, not today. Our I worry. I know I was fat. I was the full on husky thing. Yeah I mean that's. Why I think, like I still I'm very big, virulently anti label because as a kid I realize, like I'm, not walking around with a fuck. The pair pants says fat. Kid, that's ridiculous, like. Why do I gotta do that? So I got in the habit of taking you know, labels off of and then maintain that the husky labels, yeah yeah and
and I also you know I I I was not you know, I'm not a girl didn't necessarily fit in socially. For the most part, none of that come default, yeah a little difficult. I was much more difficult as a child, I think, and so how is that possible? I think you'd be. Be amazed what the white was was. There's some big prank, the? U n benjamin did well, there was all sorts of stuff. Like you know, John, like I, I was sort of heat god himself in trouble because he had done something with that amount on wanna talk about it, but it was with china, his parents right that was, it tells us. How is your algeria? I'm talking about even now, forty years later right. Well, on years, eight of years later There there's always been a serious pranks emulated when we were in boston John and I had I had our time, will you I just can't take the genre, I will go to parties and be like you're, a defence contractor your dentist and then just
Injures oh yeah know we will you know each other jobs yeah, because in No, I we were short decks at that time. I think it was a little dish here. We struck me as it now has a deck. I, understand you like, and I understood you kind of an innate leah mediately, but he was like that wildcard I was. I was used to get me out of here and it's May you that's really caused me. I mean like for John under the bus. What are ya, like you know, just like everything from like working at a restaurant cambridge when we were there doing like gonna, like I love cross of the three working at nine restaurant or what you have no chinese restaurant work could be chinese restaurant. I remember that those crazy cafe china, before that I was working in casablanca right and I wonder if I could,
is the type a guy who you know here's the thing is like Benjamin will just mercilessly make five people and they'll just they'll love it. and I know that's one thing: I've always admired about him, so he can sort of like express sort of frustration with people and they just sort of like, but I can't like let that sit right. Like like if I'm like, make a joke with someone you now and it's brilliant sort of like there is some behind it, it's not for me to have just like setting joke and contacts, I like, like yeah, you're, a jerk yeah, and then I got to go like no. No, I'm serious. I really don't like you like. That's my problem that I can't you known benjamin could sit there and go like douche bag. This guy area, where you do raggedly, no, I'm not joking,
I actually really do think you're you're doing, but I want to make that clear. I position it's very important to me that we, I understand that I don't like you, and so there was one time like a you know. I got fired a casablanca, I got him the job, we were both working there yeah, but I got him the job there fired and even tell me he actually accept me back in. And the marriage was like what are you doing here? I'm a women's. My ship, John, didn't tell you. Why would I was living with John yeah? We were a room. Why was it his job to tell you you were fired? The manager said tell you your roommate. Why were you fired cause? You know I was like that, like a I'll go to murder. I have a different india about how shut up is I mean it's like. I always thought that is not efficient. What you're doing yeah. and the thing is that I will concede that. That's really, your manager. I also say my defence. I was right
the guy was allow she wasn't doing its job right, and so I dont like to do thing. We clearly was a good job. We can even fire, you told you re exactly notion exactly it's so John didn't tell you now and he went to work and I am not convinced they didn't stoke the fires to four hours. I've got you fired so, but this is also again. This is the really the difference between you and show business in you in politics, in both arenas that particular You don't know that I dont think in in. Surely in comedy I dont think I ever gonna sell fired and now I know No, but I mean, but just a personality issue. I dont think that in show business that ever hurt me, I don't think so I mean maybe it did, but I will I wasn't. Words go through the show business because I met you. What was it like? I know exactly the mom we met was an hundred square, yes and, it was I had done and open MIKE right. I was with a couple of friends. I had the handwriting not enough. Was there guys were both we're both out there I was walking was why ass you
walking with soon to be your first ex wife yeah, and I think I said I dunno. If bedroom was there, I dunno what ha and I and I said, and ah that's MARC Marin ago- did it before never end you turned around you're, like fifteen yards ahead of us, had on a high. You heard. Oh, you sort of like sense that there were people in utero you their problem and The moment I remember, really well, because it really to me expresses because it at at the time as a guy he's really cantankerous, but what I came to realize that that was you sing like? Can you ask me? My autograph I was basically what you're saying. Is there a problem like We do not work harvard square we're walking around like a budgetary, you know we're gonna, do I'm wearing a, but you know what what what possible problems there it was really using like take
you come over here and ask me for my autograph place? That's what that's! What thou art like that dynamic is really. I think what I've I've come to understand about, like what I'm doing that I just need attention that was like guinea, just like like it here, shouldn't you guys becoming to ask for my autograph now that was an exit, and now was the that we should act. Right was a subject, the subjective, fuck. You is come on. Let's hang out right. We're at europe it's not hang out they carry me me. You can take care of me to celebrate me yeah slightly different than your particular problem. Right. Not my problems were slightly different than that, so wait so I'd say you were doing the sketches. Doing sketches and everyone stand up. I remember and benjamin that fuck I left the law school and benjamin you know was in like a holocaust master's program at northwestern. I was like so I said, come back, let's do
comedy. He told him to drop out too yeah and I didn't have to convince him. I don't think the costco master. I think he was like in history and I think he was like a holocaust studies was, I don't think he's like wrote something on Eichmann or something, and we at one point. I guess you know like I I can't exactly how it happened, but ended up in cross comedy and. Do. We want to become MR show. I was involved in the very first cross comedy and then there s an end. That is, I am now you round Adam in that's how I marry like every lorry. I know now when John and his warned and browse ski chuck scar carry proves research, jonathan graph, raw and driscoll was around. here. There are three blushing here, because people would do well. Sometimes they do stand up on the show and then sometimes you would write a sketch. But that's how like met Louis ryan, janine and laura kite linger and right it was that catch rising. Starting right
random and you know it was that was it ray timing? Benjamin was really doing stand up at that time. He was just doing the sketch what I was doing stand up, so I would do like a little bit like would go, and I remember some road stuff, but not that but you didn't you go with me want somewhere. What was that those bad doors Now look on the north south shore. I feel like a needed like five minutes and you have to get off. Wasn't horrible, there's just anywhere on a usually what happened. I mean the stuff I did that time was real, because I'm like come on. You've got the time right and I would do stuff that was really sort of you know. My whole thing was to annoy the audience at that. Will you cross her kind of like the here. There was parts of that sort of Andy Kaufman. I write big Andy kaufman right hand, and I was always trying to deconstruct stuff and so funny funny in my mind, you don't have to try to do that. Well, I know I mean I came very naturally to me himself so
it happened. So all right, so we're all doing catch a rising star, and I know that those guys this is like the late eighties, guys early nineties early nineties at this point, but I cry, comedy they all moved a must mean after after ninety two, I guess that's right around the time that I came out to san Francisco cross comedy was to sort of like this, gray right and I was just like- I wanna go check out another seen, and I dont know what I was doing frankly now you're, because when you Jane bar mitzvah is in town vista assistant, DJ by mrs ek, yeah, I do remember why really uncomfortable. I shall tell the story to do you really want me to a member? It is saying: oh, you cut it out if it doesn't yeah, it's not appropriate, but I do remember one time when you sang to me like. Is it to cheating to have phone sex or, like I dunno, have you done this before
your mega. Well, no, but it was also before, like the internet and everything alright yeah cheating to have phone sex, but I dunno, I'm in sorta seems like it. Unless you're talking about now and you're like okay, I'm a see that guy funds excellent does every day now, once it s m phone sex with his girl for his girlfriend, and And I was, it seems like something I didn't want to now and Then you know you're, not I would obviously you know we would go, have dinner at your place in your home. Have the cameras come over for dinner tomorrow night, so I show up at dinner and it's you Kim may I and the girl, you have phone sex with our today. The will go mike why the fuck do I know right. I really was that I found it very upsetting. Frankly,
I was just a little bit of drama yeah, but it was like. I didn't everything after that guy yeah. Well, no yeah, I mean I'm sure everybody's happy. Now yeah, you didn't appreciate, I'm the only one who was scarred from the whole thing like that is I dragged you into I just don't like. I don't feel comfortable knowing stuff like that. Really! No, I don't like to know. I don't like I don't like gossip I like to know, do you really not like us? And I really don't I mean I, you know if it has anything to do with like personal relationships. I don't like to know, side by the idea I mean to bring in an unknown. I feel bad donnie five years. I still feel like the athlete out it was. Gave a feeling of the up in the position to be somebody's like a confidant yet well confidence. That's neither did you know confidants different, though I feel about it. The whole thing. Maybe I should apologise. I wonder what happened to her. I wouldn't. I would now like leaving early legislators and there's definitely no value is no reason to it at all it was. It was different time from it wasn't different sure
but none of those really well. Yes, I am alone now my lonely, I agree things have gone. Did you went the other way you go? Why do children right? I got what have I got welcome panic to get to yes but way so what happened in san francisco them made. You go why like you, when they had a kind of they hack your career in show business, my wife, Dear, I wear a bar mitzvah. I, when I went I do kind of remember that cause because I remember saturdays I was around. That was the one time I come doing it on my own today, like I remember, there was like a time where you, the guy, who gave me his stuff yeah and I I would do it myself right yeah. I had no idea. I was only out there for like six eight months. I don't know how I I just. I just don't know who that guy is so funny that I have no idea who that you remember him. Can you picture him vaguely vaguely
I don't have the time to seem so distant, but but I remember you are lost because I was like do you want to do comedy? Do you want me to help you out now cause? I remember we went to the league. I had a problem with the idea, like I gotta get a head shot like no fucking way, I'm not going to market myself. I wouldn't do anything like this. I see, and so I was going through a very difficult time and I went back to boston. My girlfriend was back in cambridge and I actually it's funny. I hadn't thought about this awhile, but I didn't know what to do and I went to go. My mother's boyfriend lived like two blocks away from my my girlfriend at the time and cambridge. I went over to my mother's boyfriend's house and I was like I dunno. What to do. I don't know if I should go back out to san francisco cause of him. They're just going to be out there for like three or four months and come back in the spring and or I should just stay here now and just you know, decide like I'm gonna try and do something productive. get ahead shot and like actually engage in the business of this. I dont know what to do
My most wavering just he's this guy. Who was you know He was at and why you film school and I was to scorsese, said, come up with me up to a upstate there's going to be a big festival, we're gonna shoot it needs What I do that, what's that I gotta be, he was like incredibly well read and is like a maven right or I note, and he just like this- some italian. It goes in grabs a book and gives it to make me and its john births and of the road, and you know that book. and I got in my pocket and I'm walking back to my girlfriend swing like I don't know what to do. I am like I like this, this ambivalence was like with me for years and I'm walking add down mass ab in cambridge, and am I I don't know what to do. I don't I should go back and our oceans stay. I should go tried, do something and I walked by the video arcade that was there and I'm like. Call Benjamin will go play video games and I
That was my only solution right cause. around the corner and I walked towards the phone booth. And I suddenly remembered benjamin was out of town and I froze. In mid stride in stock froze a massive like just shorter, like this- would like one arm up like almost reach into the phone book, and I couldn't move and I wasn't like I think some tab panic attack or what it was, but I was therefore at least many five till it. Forty five minutes, yes- and only thing I can remember thinking- is like this is really fucked up, but it The problem is long as none of these people walk and by me, we're going to launch combat
if I can get out of this position before anybody returns from launch I'll, be ok. Otherwise it's going to start to seem awkward notice. It wasn't like a place where you do street are right and We can see what people thought that mothers slowly come out of it. I walk to my girlfriends apartment, which is like a block away. and I mean starting this book and in the second chapter, it's about this guy having a frozen episode like being frozen just like that, and this concept of I think they can the myth of therapy, where you're sitting in two chairs, in its all about being paralysed by the potential amount of options. I know that I get that it home deeper. Yes, check the ideas that any given choice that you may is necessarily na. As far as audible as the aggregate of all the other choices, and you know what it was
for that in a lot of therapy that I decided I gotta headshot. Now starting that's like anxiety, it was an anxiety, but it was like an intense ambivalence right because, ah I I I didn't you know I didn't want to go into. Politics didn't want to put a projection out there. Yeah- and you know I was trying to realize- like You'Ve- got a market yourself in some fashion, going to do a headshot, you got to actually do the business of right and you know for me, I mean I think I think at one point. That's right why I think I left column. on some levels, I got lost the sort of sense of like there's too much of the business part of it, and you know I had done by time. I laughed I had done like a lot of slip away? Ok, so he had the frozen mommy read the barth book, and then he got the headshot. Then how do you get in detail of it? I just like stumbled into shit. I stumbled into shit like you know, I moved on to new york in october of ninety four here. I had
in doing voice overs in Boston, an agent in Boston. Like a booking age right, remember Tie me a kind of she had been a voice, over agent in new york, are you know, casting ada york. She set me up with a cup, of meetings with like I see em and william morris erhard. I I I made them all in the first two days that I was there in the work in york? I see I'm just coincidentally was setting up their scale department. They sent me out on audition voice, audition, the first audition I had new york. I booked it by time. After the meeting at I see em. They had heard that I had booked right, which was like. We are. The guy was like an. I remember him. He was standing in front of his desk removes the full. Full, like l, a it, was in new york, but he was standing in the front deck talking into an earpiece and at that time people didn't have cell phones and earpieces and big deal.
big deal and he's talking into his looking out to the view and he waves me in and he's doing the whole show, and at that point I was just like you know like when you in Boston doing this stuff. It's like it's very like I just got to do a bunch of different jobs. And so he's like SAM we want to. Were I see him as bubba bubba and I didn't know, I see him as religious symlin or whatever, and I was like. Well, You know it's a girl, you already, but the thing- and I wanna keep doing this as a wide love to, but I've gotta meet with william morris paradigm tomorrow and then I went to william Morris. I said mobilise Yom yesterday and they already sent me on audition, which I booked, and so and so then, for the next couple of months. I had three agencies agencies, sending me to the catholic agents, and so the thing: agents were like who the fuck and cedar got three agencies setting in and so when one day
Pay pay attention you all of a sudden, like you sound better to them here in the top ten and you start booking and so the whole thing steamer old. You know it's always like creating some type of pause, and at that point my girlfriend time moved out our asia to do policies in, and so I went out there that just like madrigal from us. with Sarah here, and silver viruses, mia and went out there we lived together in that apartment. That's monitoring whose montessori school I'm sorry school, Jeremy, lin ryzhkov as little. You re getting adds greater caskey and we ve been up in austin doing the comedy lab would mean waterman and benjamin rightly and doing all this sort of what ultimately became at that time. Alternative comedy and some people from comedy- opening up- a room rebates in new york here and I can
on, and everything that we have been doing up in boston with perfect, for that right was perfect. For it and you were shooting stuff I'll shoot and a lot of video and I wish I were you went to new york before I went your guy shoddy yeah? I remember that a thirty minute here, yeah comedy lad. That was a fake sort industrial like I was real for the comedy lab that kept falling. Ok, we're self, starting before you got this age, adding any had that because you guys are sort of branched off to see like this is important because, like there was this, like you know, you were kind of like a leader in in this idea, where, like once crossed comedy one way and he knew he didn't want to be a stand up really renew. You wanted to keep working so you're sort of doing this. You know satire of allotted different stuff, different stuff, shooting your own. She had. I remember that because a lot of video involved, so I tat way and I'd die with Sarah for pilot for pilot season. I was you out there. I figure dubois overdrive, my manager like you, should go out there doing well in new york and where I did whatever outside
a date in some ways they haven't and it's not like. I'm going to. U know Nebraska me I'm going to alight rise from industry and and so I got on all american girl, which was a revamped pilot, Marbre chosen and they were revamping the pilot on air right. So all of a sudden, her entire family died and, whose living with like three hipsters right, and in that one week I had made more money than I had the year before the entire year, and I went back to me think, like I think, sir. I was started. I break up around here time whenever in or the fact that was the first time we broke up, so I went back to new york first short period of time but then we got back together. So I tried audition for another show and that's when I did that fox show that That Larry Wilmore was a producer of an
the shy regulating the share and bowman and that which worry or the white writer for a black varieties. and part of humanity, was in the pilot. But didn't you do I ten of those yeah yeah? I did and I got a lotta big presto I'd, be they thought tat This is where I really started to understand like I, I had totally stepped in shit. Like I mean, like I auditioned, for five things in book two of them I mean it was completely. It was total luck and I think part of it was just like the swimmer whole, yeah. Well, that's the key was for me at that time was Wednesday night. Thursday night was the biggest, was mussy tv was the biggest knighted television has most successful here and it was signed old silverman, schwimmer, you now, maybe some other jus, the other, the single guy ye. while silverman we're living in and so
I was you know: becca yeah. It was totally like that it was just total flavor, the area and and and I'll tell you like. I really thought I mean it was a real lesson. The show is going to be so big like I will walk. I remember just like feeling like I would walk down like in warner brothers in the studio and just like. Oh my god, like executives were like, like Glick literally in golf cart, coming towards me, like hey sam how's, it going like I thought, like. Oh, my god, there's there's like three or four executives, I'm convinced they're married, but I'm convinced I'm going to sleep with home like I've. Never had this type of like interested in at all about anything. You know my family from friends. Nothing and it was aware tat was like the first here after a good friends just become ahead, and we ve been line behind like jennifer afghanistan in schwimmer area.
and the show was all was, was that you know bowman was the director was the creator of martin, and so it was trying to meld these two things that that was what I think was supposed to be the next all in the family type of thing and for an episode or two it probably They need, they lost their nerve, but it was. It was fascinating. First of all, I learned so much from that, both in terms of hollywood, but also in terms of like how segregated thy the black and white expert hardwood wide right and what do you mean because I work as it was, sporting. That's your saying for two episodes. It had some balls because who is a brilliant guy year, n, n, n wilmore is a brilliant got yeah and obviously they can see was based on reality. Here I mean it,
what was interesting. I mean there was a couple of things that there were interesting. I mean both within the context of tv, but also outside a tv and one. I have one experiences telling you tell the story like utter a lot on my I my show, which were going back to Chris Spencer's house one time Chris spencer, with it goes on and he went on. I think, to a host like a vibe show and some other stuff. He does. He does a podcast where magical, okay, yeah he's good, so insert that we went back to his house spencer was always upset about the way I dress like he actually at one point like balmy clothes he's like you're, embarrassing all of us by the way you dress, but we went back to his house and we pull into his garage. This is during launch and he lived in hollywood at the time. Yeah
in a party his pulls in right after us driving a range rover and at that time you know that was the big red car that everybody drove if they were successful right. The guy companies are thank god, you're here, because I was being followed by another cop and he comes out he's like I've been pulled over four times this month. In my car ray- and I called he said He- I called the lapd last week and I was like I in I keep getting pulled over. Is there any way? I like a stick, he's walk. I knew where he's gonna pull work as black drawing this this raindrop is there a stick or I can get or something that you says like? I'm supposed to be His car and the guy says in the cotton and and and the cop on the other line says you know, are you black and he says Yannis is really nothing I can do, and I just really like cheating,
fucking Christ. I mean if I was getting pulled over once a week and you imagined I could pick someone with our personality get pulled over once a week. That would be it there's! No just no, I'm not gonna do or not right. Am I right jokes about going to stand up to a pious I'm going to focus on this. One in georgia is twenty four seven with everyone I meet every way I talk to it's like you realize, like that's an experience that you gotta go, that's a huge shadow luggage, you can occur through your life tomorrow with that, but I mean so that was serving experience outside of that, but the other experience was like the night before the table reed I read the script and there's his character. Big fruity was part of the policy of the the lead of the show the show I played a head right, leader of a surly living our year here and they have a posse and it's like they gonna drop their guns.
off before they come in and its big fruit. Is the guy thinking to myself to myself man. This is this seems a little bit like myra? Contrary right, I don't know how comfortable I feel it and so we go in for the reading the table red and at the beginning, the table read, I think bowman says and you'll notice, everybody that we had to change names, some of the characters? Big fruity is no longer big fruity and all the black eyes round the table are nodding, their heads and I'm like. Well, I guess they figured this out of ngos and and and I'm like, and at one point it became clear why? Because the real big fruity Got wind of it and was basically being a little menacing about it. Apparently there was a real big fruity in a way was like you know, one of us
big fruity, because you, my shoot actors and I realize, like mine, so divorce that I'm imposing my sort of like why. I guess you know sort of and I remember all sort of produce action of what is appropriate impact guilty conscience and and but there was two things like we would do actually like a prayer circle. or the shower, which was awkward cause. You don't you, on white shows and I've. Don't you know prayed to Christ like the right well, I would hold hands. Just now is like looking around. You know- and you know please Jesus Let us be ronnie tonight, like now I just feel like in the event that Jesus is really up there. I put a couple of things above that you know in terms of import, but so, but it was this aim, and you know that ended in what happened with echo
I went aid episodes that people like it. No got very well reviewed, and then it just didn't go anywhere because it was, I think there was so much hyper, rounded in and they got afraid they got really afraid. I think I dont pushing he I mean, I think they just don't really know em, you don't really know as an actor in those situations you just sort of get us a sense of what's going on, but that, That was basically it after that I did about eight other pilots and I had you know. I had very big deals and I was like you not cause. I was reluctant That's like. If your signal give a fuck, em gazettes sometimes has it like we're, we just like our right. Oh no. No, I was like actively like. I don't want to go out to allay my guide there situation a guy island was, I mean started doing pilots that I thought wouldn't go and a lot of money that, but you really did
because they wouldn't they you get offer these things in your like this is, is easy. Money he has a minor way are going to go and you know I was caught up at that time of. Like you know the school of came from a little bit was like its immoral to do something. That's not, You know what I mean here and I don't like garbage very ambivalent about that too. Here and I think, after after the show I put that money into I spent a lot of money on making who's the caboose you came back, Nor can we are based on. It was storm. Basically, what has just happened to me over the past year, a funny too, but you also like you know they at that time are no one that started, but you are getting involved in the work of that. What's his name would not? Casimir economies. We miss caswell gas about incarnation, scholar, cordiality, scholar, yeah and you really work sort of after you did the comedy lab you, your interest in independent film became. You know. Yes, anything and I think, like cassavetes became sort of,
model for me, and that he would like make his money in hollywood like he did. A tv show I dunno. If he ever saw that like there was, he did a tv show that was like a jazz piece, I and when it was clearly something that you know he may have enjoyed it not, but he was making his money. And spending money on his movies and, unlike others them all. four may How may move you did you make him? It is a compromise which is great. I do like a boost and then the next thing I did was beat cops, but that based upon whose the caboose You know, I can't you shot a pilot for four comments. Company was able jobs, we did becomes twice. I am the first time it was for studios, usa and then cones company basically bought it right. We did it again for
which movie did I play the the hasidic? That was a bad situation, the bad situationist yeah. So that was the second feature. That was the second feature and that one didn't work out so well didn't know. Are you being facetious? Well? No. I disagree were that seamless, bunny yeah yeah. That scene was really funny if you're not seen the moving. I have seen it well, it was based on. I was pissed about the election right and I had had a character that I've been doing liebermann, sunrise, yeah, leading up to the election year. Jellybean son, who was a pro unless palm beach again that you may data yeah I think I found out later. He had a son who did crew or some right arisen and in, like Joe leave men at all at the tire your obsessed with I was obsessed with whom I was pissed about the supreme court decision,
janine and I that night were stayed up all night to watch that I think Alex Levin was there and I started taking photos of by television obsessively for the next like month and a half of Joe Lieberman know of the recount oh yeah, and I was pissed about the supreme court and that's when I think a you know things sort of like turned for me, and I wrote that, we shot it. It ended where they would show lemons exxon on the roof of his building after being inculcated by some of our through some religious zealots to commit a terrorist attack right, which is what your scene was right. And I use on his roof where they are bazooka, aiming at a building in new york city. And I was eight weeks into editing when the planes in the tower, ran suddenly the idea of religious zealots, promoting terrorist attacks in new york city-
it's buildings against buildings and blowing up the post office and taking over theater with shelves which should happened in russia like days after that I didn't. He turned out to be not that funny. So it took me about six to eight years to finish the movie, but and I dunno that movie is sort of a mess, and it's I've got a lot of dvds sitting in my basement right now, climate treaties, that movie sitting in my bracelet but like b, but so like all so after. I will need to tell the story guyliner island, but you did all these different. You know pilots, he made a lot of money and then you made the first movie but then like we both get sort of corralled and air america and then, while I was doing I I directed busy, that's right, the abuse on comedy central yeah. I directed episodes of that digi to thirteen, and that was difficult. I mean that was
I felt he was a difficult guy to work with, I would say so. Yeah I mean they were the name of the show, I'm with busy. Yes, you are still you're pretty inch in doing something funny that was the original and unique now, and then I didn't pilot season after that. The tv show yeah, which I played a manager yes, and that was the sequel to whose the caboose trio had bought it, which was awesome about that was, it was asleep well to a movie that no one literally no one had ever seen. It was funny because you know they. I remember they put all those episodes up. It was good and he shot it like you're really hung up on. You were doing like that guerilla shooting technique. You know before you like you can. that with any camera. Now, but not then the who's, the caboose was the first fictional non multi, media, digital video to film and everybody was like? Why are you doing it on video that stupid and then Are you two years later? That's the only thing that anyone exploded. We had the first camera from sony right and then Pilot season was shot like with like the office.
before. I often right. Remember me because for me like albert brooks. Real life was the and sure means march by russia, Colleagues, you know that may ensure its great in the opening of whose the caboose is almost I, called the sherman large. He goes. New york, they're gonna do a dime, manchuria on one thing and then all of a sudden it goes a different riot right and dumb and so was the shooting style in part of it, was because I knew he's comedians, who were very far and I was shooting. With video at the time- and you know this was around the time of dogma. Ninety five, you yonder that was meant to burgundy, those guys- and I was just thinking like you know. I I'm not creating a scene You know and then in some would argue. This is not cinema, but I am capturing a reality and so the scene would happen and the cameras
work around the scene rather than this so there was no marks right I mean we would do it the rehearsal in it in the end. The camera was really important for this, and I had a really good dp. Who, so shoot who? Who, who I liked, because understood the rhythms of what was going on in front of right and- and I wanted to be. You know I was carnet fo verity at the time here to nobody, because nobody gave a shit about what I was talking about and it was really just about creating a reality and then having the cameras captured her. And you know using jump, cuts and stuff like that. I did. That would be cops a little bit too because it was sort of I guess when, like homicide was happening and what we can do sort of egg comedy homicide thing. And you are also doing acting independent films right if you will, but I was at last up next up wonderland wonderland and he did ass
animated, stuff, you're you're on bob's burgers still right yeah. He did how movies with what's his name learn: oh yeah, yeah yeah he's great yards gray. That's a lot of fun. so interesting because you know you did a lot of shit. Well, you know janine call me and said you know I in in in two thousand three sharpening as before America, let me do two hours on on the best showed fm you do. The majority of workers have really pissed about the fucking war and janine was going on tv and she was the only person you know she was. The only person was allowed to go on tv to talk about this shit like this. Is you know I was mad. I was really mad. She called me and said, like the starting a liberal network. I mean I remember, calling you after the first meeting I have with the people and and at the time I thought, like I'm, already spending a couple of hours a day, reading blogs and this I'll do this to the elect
and what I was doing it. You know I was writing pilots to during this time. Right you know, fervour for network and I was making some money off about two and I just finished pilot season, and I remember we start, I guess in two thousand foreign policies- and I think you know, came on and and sipped. of two thousand for Austria and then of course like as soon as we made the deal with them. Here they basically announced like we're, not exist mine hunts, managua sort of there at one point, somebody in the globe wrote a piece about me. Writer My book was going to come out and entitled. The failure is an option. To a certain extent like that theme has been there. Ah, you know where it's. I am incredibly lucky we. I am This is not quite you know, it's like I mean a there you know, because I am incredibly lucky
and then there are other times where I don't have luck and there's other times like I. You know I walked away from a lot of shit that by probably in retrospect some of those you may not have been the best I have, but I Maybe it's just sort of interesting ideas. Timing is one thing but like so civility, impulse to dig Thoroughly involve politics was just pure outrage at at at administration in the war just administration, the war. I was mad about the two thousand election I mean I was mad that the media was not talking about what a because you know I had been raised by a pack of lawyers, unlike the supreme court, like the legal institutions, you know as far as I was concerned when I was a kid like there's there's only two ways to make money: yeah, it's either your lawyer or you do something: that's not right.
and because the law was like, like a priesthood, likewise part of the fabric of society, where what happened that supreme court was was just like, I think, The entire legal establishment was in a state of shock for the year and with the two thousand election yeah and in fact there was newsweek the first the second week of sept summer of two thousand and one the cover was going to be about this huge fracture on the supreme court and of course they never ran that that cover story, because nine eleven happened but ah- and I was still like it was- I just couldn't believe what was going on the fucking country, and I used to call into talk radio out here when I was doing like policies and abuse the show and just you know, fuck, Those guys are varieties, yeah, yeah, because they're idiots, I mean you know nobody would ever question him and I would just come on and I had been reading quite a bit of time online and I thought that maybe
would leave in and I would start can. I still had both freedom and I was like a cup like, I think, of one or two movies that I said no, I can't do right. Has I can't walk away from this in the middle of the election run and then you know, writing shows and whatnot at the you know I was at air america and the last one I wrote was for amc like one and two years ago it was about air america ride death ray. I think what happened was like once I got used the idea of I used to spend months. I'm thirty minutes a program like you know, shooting it writing it. Getting it right and now I'm spending hours prepping for three hours, a programme and its immediate and its immediate in it was a hard thing to adjust to, but its relentless in its exhausting in some
his, but I feel, like you know, gets my mind engaged mia. I mean I, you know it's not the same thing as it was in our ten years ago and there's different things that interest me about it, but I can't, but you do a podcast every day, three as a day nah it's about, and it's about a it's. You know the the free one is about forty five minutes and then I do a little more for another me out of another hour for for the premier yeah, and you find that like do you feel satisfied. I mean? You know it's hard to go from, like you know, we're doing radio you ve got like literally hundreds of thousands not billions from you and your name or great. Yet in there is a freedom to it. There was a excitement to in part of our marriage. Even though was such a train, recommend me on the morning show I was sort of detached from what was going on during the day as we work out right, I mean and we were sixty nine by ten o clock. We could barely talk so
we're just exhausted but like, you know. Initially, it was pretty exciting. There was incredibly exciting. I mean at me. I remember in some time in that, if all honey is saying that fucking night there was a large idas. That was the funny thing he ever did to me. What was right here was the big. What was launch part of asia and europe. Who are you and they re introducing each of the shows. We all got to say something and you Up there and you got your boat and it was all there was like a podcast and they got a lot of press. I mean owl was one of the biggest political voices on the left they're here and, Michael, more sure, sure You got that their vote did. What did you say that you get up there? They introduce measures like I am very excited to share my voice by tomorrow. There was something about like we're going to a word that we're going to show them. The liberals have a voice as his buddy but, is very exciting and, and the
I remember being in a hotel out here when trio went well. season launched. They had like press event and they were big like in pictures of the show and they were running it on the hotel able now you- and I remember- up in the hotel room and it was very I think you need to have a shoulder. You, you know you ve, read, you're directed and acted in b Tv and a small island, but it was very angry and then a trio's does blog. get on this guy duncan blair uses morocco and I had read him so much easier. he mentioned me in a post and it was like. Oh, my god. This is like I am watching my show on tv I looking at my can. I think I have a computer, a picture. I took up my computer and I ours like this- is it this is the pinnacle for me Patria. I wonder if I can keep this
balancing act and the answer was now not off help but put like it. seems to me that, like you know, we we just did a episode of my show. We had a good time and it was funny and really fun yeah. It was fun. And you know you have all this- you got a head full of ideas about. You know how to shoot things and do things. How much of your you know, active engagement in it real we in earnest it just sort of fear, fear of you know like I mean, do you really not have time I mean are do do you really just sort of don't feel like you can express yourself in that way or it's not necessary, there's something more urgent heart. It's really hard to go from something that is so literal. That is so literal, and so you know the idea like I'm like when I know I mean like this, I very immediate about it. We did bullshit, but but to make the have you preying on those two different, rightly on one hand like you know who is talking about the? King be Burwell scotus case which has not amusing to anybody right,
and, but I wanna know like specifically like I I need to know like how how are the subsidies paid when the irish calculated? How are they pay? What percentages? You know? What point do you get? What are the implications you know how many people are gonna, be disenfranchised and not to be able to buy insurance, and if do? How is it going to create like a desk viral with the insurance industry, because you you have a risk pool, that's going to change in all this stuff and then to sort of like. Ok, I'm done with that. Now. I'm gonna write a story about like what happens if these two guys get up the crazy hijacks, it's not like have a problem with eyes. Just like my mind, you know when you're comedians, like you need to immerse yourself in and when you're done. In like a like, a show or whatever you're, creating a whole new set of physics that are that exist only in that world right and not in this other world they have to. They have to be logical within the physics
of that universe. I get radio yet into cross those two universe, exhaustive. Just it's hard and you know I got a two year old right away. do you like it will go. I'm not here to talk you out of the you know, fighting the good fight here, because I'm a coward. If this is an honor to do a regular part of your job, we can negotiate know. But like do you like the frustrate, jeanne of of the message falling on deaf ears? Did this sort of like a lack of any really cohesive, left in this country? Lack of that dialogue? I mean not only you hammering up against you know your own frustration and and and taking it upon yourself in men, maybe not making the kind of a livelihood you want, but you have the the frustration of of the dialogue not being there in this country has got it like just make even worse: yes, is it worth it? only thing that mitigates that level frustration is that you know that, like
not getting anywhere. The left has sort of fallen apart in many respects. The only thing gates is that I feel like we're all fucked, because a climate change, anyways you don't believe in god, but you believe that I bet there's a faith in that. I mean that and that's I mean that is frustrating it's very hard. Like you know, and and and to a certain extent it takes a certain amount of rationalization right for it was like when you're on, like a big plan, or you can say like I can. We can actually move the dialogue in a well one point: we shut download the foam banks, it does new york times in washington. I was past about something you can mobilise gravel. What I do now is like I have a different part in the key ugh we're on the machine and it's like the audience. I taught who are you know some of em like run
important organization and and and some work on on other shows, you know like unbelievable. The lot of the daily show people, I know, yeah, listen to the show cause. I get a call occasion like hey this thing you were talking on about today. Do you want to you know, and I'm like wait, what waning, something to somebody who's gonna write it fur the daily show, and it's gonna get or given ideas to like. You know what they should focus awry, something Then I'm doing something you're part of it, the converse: asian and your may. I have import wiped out the thing we did the brake room thing, despite the fact that I was yoke in bad shape. We did a lot of money should on their. That was pretty important light integration in. If you listen to me, we would have been very successful. Wait a minute. That's probably another thing that oh definitely I mean I
isn't he what I was saying that we should have made and we should have tried to do a successful internet show rather than three hundred pilots for a tv show. That was never going to happen. That was my argument at the time we don't have to get into how you or I were refused to listen. I don't know if I refused. I just hope, my god. He refused very, very good. I think so thanks are they fab. Did you feel if you feel the love intention at ST peter and I are known for we're going to do things together again. I feel it I dunno, maybe not, I don't know we'll see, go to wtf pod dot com check, the new tour dates, wtf, pod dot, com, slash calendar and added dates in minneapolis, chicago port.
And new york area, cleveland gulf, deputy ipod, dotcom slashed counter, do whatever you guys do want to say. Thank you both for vision and I need I do you changed my life. I wake up in the middle of the night air an auto is it's like what scariest things up near the wake up in the moonlight and see too little white keys. Then it is your bid, isn't creepy shit status correctly because another moment where I went, like you, wouldn't want to follow my may. What did I do your guy? Why look out a horrible, because this is what is this oh shit, my kids mark and bird items, big fight, scene,
the offices. You know look good you've been up for two days. You been doing plough everything else. He says I haven't been up for two days and bert said: Nevertheless, you look look good and I'm not gonna shoot you this way, and so every time say. Nevertheless, I kept noticing that something happened over ricky's face. I said: what's gonna answer, I can I'm almost gonna like a guy who I'm suppressing laughter when it is nevertheless an ice. Why, and he told me his great story of being at a football game where this woman is being introduced to sing the national anthem and her name is Helen. Helen, Helen forest heritage and It's a now to sing the national anthem, Helen forests and somebody in the stands schemes.
Helen for sucks, cock, yeah and the announcer says. Nevertheless, I went outside and I went into the courtyard it back to the center and then getting emotional okay. I called my parents and I said, I'm gonna be on Saturday night liven really exciting. I never cry when I I just you know what it is a beautiful story, and sometimes I forget that dog crying because it is like cool to achieve something that you've always wanted and to do it kind of on your turn to call my parents like they were just so stunned, like we were all so stunned. Just I came from like this fucking haunted house, but these few are
with the woods on fire and just like, had this one dream and went to college and didn't become an asshole and to just call them and make that phone call. It honestly, I I forget about yeah. I wrote a song with mick Jagger. There was a sketch for the song and I was helping him write lyrics and it was just me and him sitting in his dressing room and he said alright. What rhymes with drink, there's a long pause, and I said bring now it is another thing. Like you ve, got a vulgar. Is this how you right click on it as if it was great allow make I mark? How are you, sir, I'm great? How are you
The last time I saw you lie was in nineteen. Eighty one in madison square garden. Longer view must come more than once. Every thirty years I die no make em. gonna, why you know tee thy new nor to say this is conversation. My changed. My life another girl bobo.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-17.