« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 621 - Ian McKellen

2015-07-19 | 🔗
Sir Ian McKellen turns the garage into a master class as he tries to help Marc develop a better understanding and appreciation for Shakespeare. Along the way, they talk about what it was like growing up during World War II, why he felt liberated as an actor when he came out, what he likes best about his role in “Mr. Holmes,” and the real reason he keeps agreeing to play Gandalf.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this! How are you what the fuckers, what the bug buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck stirs? That's it! That's all them! How are you this is marked marin. This is deputy up wtf. My podcast welcome aboard. Oh hello, into your head? hello. You there on the treadmill out there on the sidewalk, perhaps run, and what your new running shoes be careful, how's it going in your car everything. Ok on the tube. Are you ok on the tube, How are you on the subway everything all right? Are you? Are you going The tunnel you out of the tunnel how's it going you there on the airplane yeah. Ok, high yeah, you that's right, that's right! You can we listen to me at same time. I'm I'm! Ok with that when he got there, did you go to vegetate an option, hi how's it going use it at home on your computer, taken a break from
washing the thing? How are you doing there near cubicle at work is funny to you? Is this look around look around you're the only you're fucked those people look around fuck all them right right. Am I right yeah, that's right! It is my honour or smile and of cool, because people going to wonder what you're doing I am mark maritime dimension that nice to see you nice did to talk to you. I did a lot of work. I finished, I one thousand of the books that I bought surplus of my books there all sold out. Thank you they're still, plenty of the of different marianne nation tour posters at diabetes, pod, dot, com, swash merged, there's, a a few mugs, go to ryan our jones dot com and you can get the the deputy f mugs the fancy wednesday, and thrown ones. I think there's a few have try it o Brien. Can we make them as quick as he can make him he's a potter? It's got a child varieties, water with a child can spend a lot of time on the wheel when you got it
child in the house. So I maybe there's some there. So sir Ian Mckellen his on and I was excited and nervous about this today. Also on the nervous promoting a mister holmes, and sometimes we get our guests. they're running around doing the promotional thing? They just got a text from Chris, whereas it hey, I just heard his Chris Hardwicke on my phone in a little talky balloon? I love the idea of cross. voting so happy to tell tells folks me, it says, tells in our try to jump over deputy efforts, some sweet double ian macao, podcast action and I will are you the same then cause it's. The weird thing about podcasting is that I think we all have different styles. Maybe you want to take this opportunity today to to enjoy the different styles, that declaration, I haven't also to enjoy a certain Mcmullen in in two different formats, now long enough to list
I'm gonna have to listen to the nervous to see how our how it went over there. I don't do that, got nothing against I just don't have time, I'm too busy listening to stacks and stacks of records. That's my that's my my second job, Oh and I signed one thousand books. Not complaining It was a workday, a lot of the manual or with the sharpest hey? Can I read are too sharply and say how about making a fuckin pen the. dry out. You know if you ve left the cover up for twelve seconds, How about one of those? Do you have one of those? I know you make a retractable times that those are okay, if you retract it no that's on me. But let's talk about the cap thing seriously if, if I got a sharp and amusing it and a cap cub and set it down for fifteen seconds, breaths get another thing that I'm about to write on its it's fucked. It's gone. Am I missing a trick? What's happening strike an aunt, I add for sharply
So yeah I was, I was excited and a bit nervous to talk to us or even Mckellen, because I mean I've seen enough his work to know who he is. But so no he's or even a shakespearian actor. as some of you know, my experience with shakespeare has not been great. Ok, I don't I don't always understand shakespeare. I think that's that's the wrong way. To put it, I don't take the time wrap, my brain around the language in order to understand shakespeare and I'm gonna talk to even maccallum, sir emma callin about shakespeare. I think that's it reasonable and I hope you enjoy that I dont you know I I'm starting to think that one of the reasons cats have a somewhat detached store or mysterious or even nasty despots.
is. Did you ever really consider the amount of times you wake your cat up from a nap? Could you imagine someone did that to you like as soon as you get like on your behalf, our into a good nap and someone just comes over and shirts and you're rubbing your head yeah. I think that I think we underestimate the rage inside a cat just from that, just from the fact that we wake them up from from naps, almost constantly let's talk now- but this is my conversation. with sir ian Mcgowan, his movie missed homes is out now, and that is a sure. Why some of the, although not the exact sherlock john, you know, and in and see how you enjoy my conversation with the with sir even mcgowan and feel free to compare it with christmas. Hardwicke set is this is a big day. This hasn't happened too often in this never happened where we both have the same guests, so I'm gonna go and was in his
Here's a me and certain callin, the president of the united states, was here three weeks ago. That's his cup. He left his ha ha ha ha. He sat right where you are sitting fantastic It was amazing. He came to my house excited that he knew I was coming yeah. I told him. That's the only reason that he he decided to do the show he was. He was on the fence initially, so I How do people ever further, you, sir, in no in him, You want to wear headphones or are now you want just pull them. My closer to your face You know I a voice over perfect beautiful, and what did you talk to him about item? m about. We ended up talking about race about weapons about his life as president, you know how he handles it: his wife, his children, a bit
tight. Our do you got something out of him that other people didn't Y got I have a one on one conversation with him, but as a in this intimate setting, which I think tonally sounded different than anything he did on previous and what was his motive disposed to think it was two year to sort of reintroduce himself on some level too to the american people, I think here in this country young people become detached. They hear the president sort of fades into them. ground eventually, and I think that he was is seen as a lame duck at this point, and I think he thought that by Using this show he could sorted connected people. They may have become a bid, a political agenda. different side of himself, and I think it worked good a sense of whose downloading you this nature, the jubilee getting contact with you? well, you know either my audience tends to be sensitive. Slightly aggravated people here. intelligent of all ages. I dont think I ever.
a graphic. I think it's more of a disposition that seems to me to arc from, thirteen eighty, but the good people, generally speaking, and I need to. I need to ask you about some things, because you know I'm not dumb, but I have not when these people, I have this conversation, move away away on the sure sure, so I Thus, while the other guy did. We started talking our saviour ag about here, being recorded? Oh sure, what will you have every right? Wasn't I wanted for the record. Do you know that Chris Hardwicke, the other guys, do that for me the formula can touch the president's cup I'll. Let you do that, but I imagine you covered the the hobbit and in lord of the rings, fair weather or other news horrible. I mean the the the the the the same thing. Is that, although I haven't been to middle earth as it were, for
a long time. Those movies are still current because, of course, people watch movies at home owners they will be forever current with a certain part of the population. Is I learned that sir? It's a bewilderment manner? Is it over do a job and that we all made a film, but, oh fifteen years, It is someone comes up. You have just seen your movie what but oh yeah and other you usually called the young person. The I know that's very gratifying. We only acts for two to four gets a reaction from women's rights are when you get. The reaction is so precious at, even if it comes years later this no there's no more late to the party. is ongoing and you can come in whenever you want, as if it started, but question is knowing your your history is? Is that dumb I need to? I need. Somebody to to make me want to understand shakespeare in I don't I don't know you
can do that? Well, that's what I spend a lot of my life trying to do, because shakespeare means a great deal to me and my colleagues, and we know that your life's kind of it. enhanced by being from it, with those amazing stores and amazing language, so I had to show called acting shakespeare. I talked about show there on the shakespeare I was talking about was the acting shakespeare. The six me who Islam gives his characters at some moments of stress in their lives, or they express that with a metaphor which is to do with acting all the world's a stage. right through all the men and women. Men applies near the exits and unjust. I think one of shakespeare's messages is, if you understand that about human beings, that we are all actors It'll eliminate your life
But what does that mean? Well, when you got up in the morning, you decide what costume you go to a yet that night. That's only that occur. Not you got relaxed, as our you land reassure you on this, does the awful cloth but relaxed if you are a night with a hoodie pretty correctly other to ship it. But of course you dress here this part of the world because of the weather, but If you and I were going out to seem to some event, we would change our costume clothes, expresses a part of our nature, animals, I'll. Do that allows overstay the same, showing that they don't need cousin network those it another stunk residents them. presentation of themselves, and what's more, we not only change our costumes. But we change our language to remember. At school I had a different accented.
It was a broader northern lancashire. Actions in the north of innumerable was added that was natural to you that I have ever ever since they lot ass. It was quite broad guy can. When you were a kid you can pick up the difference now shared and warm set, but at home where my past and speak with our strong, and I got. I changed my voice so and I am capable of doing that because I'm a humane because I'm an act. And you adapt we're all actors. when I really love pretence from middle of using our imagination and beloved, just showing us different side of our personality in different situations of dog is always a dog. and that's why dogs are so funny because get into situations where it's not appropriate for dogs we love by a name, they change emotionally, they can be needy or a million or the, and indeed at that level playing one part that's robustly
but there's a slight emotional or in the way they look, and probably they ve got one bulk. What we hear, but a couple different sounds, but would when you were younger, wait you where'd, you grow up exactly not of england and the industrial nothin and accountable lancashire, where the beatles kept from land near livable Did you see the beatles? Did you? I had here. You says, as the greatest review I've ever had as well. I was opening and apply in nottingham in the north of england. The beatles were playing at the local cinema so before they were big guns, critic said I was sorry, taken with the in michelin performance that it reconciles me to missing the beatles whoa. It's not like that. I think that was before they came to america. How I wish the years go by to shake so we are. I just wanted to know you or you kill conducting this. Not me! No! No, but I mean it's interesting to me that you grow up and I and I know shakespeare is sort of ingrained
in in british culture. What is possible, as I did before I went to college aged eighteen, I'd seen half of their citizenship, what what what sparked a desire and you, because as a maybe as an american and as someone who's lazy, I can't get past the languages in I'm an english major and I somehow avoided shakespeare because I can can't follow the emotions. I cannot follow the store supervisor you will hear you perhaps didn't see very good actors doing shakespeare it is. It is difficult to have to learn how to do it, and yet it is different In its own way, a singing from Mozart, ok and you're not going to get moats up by looking at the score on probably not going to get shakespeare just by reading it for yourself, you'll have to hear it out loud and an audience of course audio obviousness before the spectators and and so If you get practised, performs of shakespeare, it's more
For that you won't will be able to understand it because they understand. Why does deb? I will I watched william hurt, I think, butcher richard the second once It was a well developed leg. If you want to do it and if you want to go into notion to shakespeare, has not to ledge. No, no, I know I'm looking forward to our future issues should get the dvd of macbeth one of shakespeare, s best and shorter. most popular plays with earlier nano, be they in the cabin? Allow me write that down. You will be able to spend a jew, do damage or great. British arches was playing lady macbeth and it was to buy the man who, at the time is running the road shapes become, as others with a group of people really cared about faced with I read it is innovative and a small set over a hundred people that adapted varies the two to the television screen where
you didn't have any scenery, it was just the actors and their voices and. my sister who, when she was a teacher, used to play it for her little girls of twelve thirteen and should leave them in the room, should should pull the blinds down as you put it on the screen and should stop, side and wait for the first scream, because it's a very terrify play about magic and riches the danger of murder and blood, and look look at that because it's it's probably I'm not there as I said, is the most convincing screen version of shakespeare that you can get doesn't doesn't doesn't listen spectacle. Does this Marcin red there's? No, whether just the voices, read it, but you can see that the faces, and I would be amazed if you had difficulty under
standing at its. It's very, very simple: I'm going to do that, yeah and- and I'm going to do it in the end, what's going to start an entire new period in my life? Well, I hope so. Yes, so as as your ear, how will do do you talk about it? But how will do the seventy six, so you born in england, it just before the second world war noteth as non. So is a rough start Well, it's true. I am the first, the first three years of my life. I didn't sleep in a bad light, slept. it was under a metal table an hour. Stairs room in case a bomb the building building over sir black blackout. Material, The lights didn't real interaction, a german a bomb is becoming ever. Do you remember that? Oh clip, but an not much to aids but sir caught healthy eating. Rationing yeah, but I cos you doubt when you grow up know that
but that's not the norm, and I was well looked out a lot of love him I have here is it, missing emerge respect. You know they like, as as an american person a we never had experienced an aim and in really england was trashed, it was destroyed, ha ha, yeah, although we were living their relatively safe part of the country, so save that when, when What is were evacuated full, but by the government, they were told to leave their homes and endangers present lot. London. Birmingham, a family, came to live with us. Mrs levick than Mr Lovett was left behind fire fighting and the two kids can deliver them. as I said in an interview like this: they can on television in england quite recently I don't know what happened to the living six yap. If you want to get in touch of they happen, they data have that. Like a kid, girl, whose now my age, as virtue
Canada is a sir beautiful isn't that level, but so little excitement in the war of of a good sort up for me, other people, have the houses bombed and died? Of course, war is no fun nl my siblings yeah, I just swan elder sister who's dead. Now, I'm sorry not sorry, and what? What kind of like? What kind of household whether what your old man do, what your father? He was a civil engineer, yeah and pacifists, but he didn't have to just as unavailable for fighting, because his job or sought to be two important because it was running their the water in their energy supplies and street lighting in the building. in the town where we lived so he was able to serve some picked. Some people had to do stay at home and keep it and which he he got a reasonable salary end
remember celebrating the day that he and a thousand pounds a year which should be in those there's, probably three thousand dollars, but yet I still talking about my because the value one is strange across here and there was a big data they want yes with which we think we had tinned oranges that lie at the earth. Sounds good, I'm not sure what it is, but when it's oranges and then navarre and time again, so I can dunno yeah- I picked up this in your driveway- is that an orange is a little fruit. I came to palm tree at some sort of an edible date. I believe hours a day to those and yeah, but I don't think he can eat them. Ok, I would have known take as I like to eat so would have known GonNA! Take it as a souvenir dictated
if you're, the president take a souvenir from him, and I I he I just happy memories and very happy memories. He calls me every day. I know I have a beautiful hand thrown mug, I'm going to give you as well at the end test. If it goes well, good it reduce over great yogurt, so would in your mother, she did she work I know she worked as a running the house and two kids and then these evacuees, who were living with her so she had to sort the whole family, was a mother and tells her in years. Yes, but my mother cooks are are fulfilled jobs that run the house, but the days when the whole women didn't work right or mothers didn't welfare is doing that job. But before that she'd been a secretary and by the time well He died when I was twelve or whether she would have taken up a job after that. I wonder so you're young. Now how dreadful threat in your body
fast way to her Well, he azure sensus, and when did you begin? Do you know know that you wanted to act is very specific type. Acting. You did for a lot of years. well, I think my next job is going to bed to try and write a member that simple question is probably going to take up a couple of each because in the book now we ve got about me. I guess maybe five ten minutes dispersant play my sister. I my poems enjoyed going to the set the lives it, so you want as well as its only took me along an I ll I too am I think I like him of needed and this My own assisted took midterm my best supply we were mentioning when I was about eight or nine, is a hammer to production and another pet. Those are my first to shakespeare member who is in it, oh
I do keys sykes elliot these were amateur production and in the local communities it and I enjoyed it so much that I did you find out how it was done, behind that could ruin in those days and went up. Look that syrian, but what, where they were there when they the stage where do they go? That's the question I wanted to answer and the way to answer was to become an amateur myself, which I did a school and elsewhere, and I got backstage It was the real threat to me out. That's how they do it. they pull that that happens. I should and then there is the tradition of shakespeare companies that everybody is really involved at all. Was right. I mean that. Did you know you doing some stage work you doing. I say yes, as suppose, that's true
Glenn, I didn't become a stage manager, rightly just dealing with the objects, is needed. help tell the story now I did I found out that I have an aptitude for of a light like drawing attention to myself, but not as me, but as the character. I was playing, isn't as the interesting thing, because all world's a stage and all the men and women merely players. I suppose I I was just doing a fairly human activity of pretending, but thing necessarily think you, as a person were at work that to no one I don't think I didn't say I was a very good. I try this, although I did a lot of acting at a school in the later at cambridge university with like minded scholars who intended eventually become professionals. I didn't I I just enjoyed acting and didn't think. I was good enough because I'd seen some that a good actors onstage and I knew that I wasn't it
so who were the guys guy's dead that sort of blow you away at an age that you would watch and be like that is transcendent like Who is the one that delivered the main message of shakespeare to you in in terms of humanizing it and in dramatizing it perfectly peggy. Ashcroft pugwash raft was some, on a level with long live here and John give good and rough richardson orson welles those sort of people whose names, but still remember and she was there. She was leading exercise of her time in her ice. I saw her do a great deal and I was riveted and overwhelmed. I did but I did meter yeah. Oh, yes, we became quite good friends because she was very open, friendly person.
I did did work with her little bit. Events. There can be a moloch, pacing, but not not not not in a play ever done on platform performances readings in that sort of thing I hardly ever shit but there's a whole. it wasn't. One ituri was right, one production, literally just a whole city going Experience that I'm I wanted to get by being on the stage rather than in the audience and in what? How do you do when you went to cambridge yeah right You are I majored in english, but didn't do enough work. I was in twenty one undergraduate. actions. There wasn't a drama faculty that we just did this not better gray and Wendy. Do me a formal training, for I didn't really never have done, which is why I am still learning I think our judge each job still, but am I going to learn anything from again about? the end of this I'm to be better. Ah, I hope to give the order to good time, but
a famous I'm a craftsman, I'm still trying to make that perfect table they had. There's no such thing so on we are so it's a constant. My is a constant interest to me, because some I know, there's no end in sight. I haven't I haven't found out yet how to do. Are we really really feel that and if need be I like more than anyone ever and I've never had an night in in here. Have you don't know the first one at? But you know you used bent more time spent tonight in here now. I never got that bad in the house you think you were several troubled relationships are never so back almost rebecca, but
But if you spend more time on stage than you have you know on tv or in movies? Really I mean this day. Well, I made an average of a film on the tv the cinema one here so that will add up to sixty foams. You haven't seen or heard of any them, because that they weren't was it but tat. Every swell luck, strikes and underline something. That's the catches, the public's imagination, but It's still as opposed, if I want to define myself think of myself as being a theater actor, that's what I am most at home is difficult to beat. Home and in the studio so much going on there. So many people, although you ve, got a part play. It is only a part and what really is happening? It is a bit bewildering, but in the theater
when it comes to delivering the story to the audience? Who is there and you go from the beginning through to them the directors nowhere to be seen the lighting guy? Isn't it the box, you can't seem the designer as undoing another production and it's just the actor. and the audience and that's when my happiest? It's all media feel the life of it. It is now, as it is said that human level of direct communication, which is At times I ran against the technology that may not even communicates sir Reginald. These days. But we need a thing for for our house. Secondly, to confirm our humanity, we need actually to look people in the eye right as well as here I'm in here we are having a perfectly sociable,
Imagine it but you're wearing earphones. I mean why well and I've got an earphone on what. Why don't we just take them off and talk? We can do on it No, but it's ok, I've got used to the idea but now. I know why you're microphones in the city absolute death, to want. when I go there live out, I will not use a microfinance. It but what it needs and problems with the hearing impaired to having amplification deacon. Oh, I host. I must, of course they must have yet no, but I am the points about audience I go back to that audio- is the when yeah, you're, emotion, oh yeah, start deep down under that big muscles. Gotta die from its under your bit below your lungs. unless you fuselage down there, it affects the way that you speak because its pushing their up in a particular way, and this
comes up through the body and then of the sort, into the master, all those most intimate parts of your body, lovemaking prices, places, tongues and and cheeks and lips through that it goes. Can we measure. Does it travels across the and lands on your eardrum on your jam vibrate and your on my might die from connect yeah, but microphone in the way here, not the same here? I am not a human exchange. It isn't. I think that's true, and I think you know when you talk about the iranian when, like his go to interfere theater and, that I've done plays and I enjoy seeing plays, but over time there, what have you you know if you're, not a theater lover or a regular theatre goer, you stop the like. Why was it a good play? You know Show you how? How is that thing? But the time of their. Even if it's an experimental performance, you cannot its undeniable. The the ring of human engagement, which I think mightily why people dont go is
They should because theatre at you. for generations has been thought of this sort a community lifeblood of inaction and green dividends, but acting or in the most primitive of society. As though the story tellers roaring people would gather around to listen. and the it before, you can read or write. The great stories were passed down, orderly helmer, homer, began at homer wasn't a person, but what we know is that whoever wrote them or first spoke them. They were repeated by people who had the words not having read them. pass them on under, but all it was all that a very human love. It's it's been it's bizarre because I do stand up and I doubt do yeah yeah- and I recently did you use mike for that but bright by, like what I did recently I was opera house. If they meet the bam in brooklyn, I was performing a very conscious
You know, because I knew the venue could handle it, that it was design properly. So I There were portions right step aside from the mike and an get right up to deliver this drug failure like back but the differences insane. I mean it's it's like to do prince of how people listen to me that there are not allowed the distance anymore. That should occur tony bennett does not to great effect to the end of his sat. He always puts the mike aside and things and that's the magic moment, it's That's what you remember. That's what you really want all the time but different because that's a big city you're talking about there myself, but yes, you, It's not that long ago the people didn't use microsoft. Zambian event at opera singer stood out years. Microphone, that's right. They asked us through a thrill of opera. Going on understand, other languages now tricky, Well, I I go and see approach here. Opera spoke. the south, because right now
which one they are. They literally have subtitles for their second, but then that's distracting. But what do you think, like you know, as somebody who who lives on the stage and when you do like what let's say, shakespeare and you're doing shakespeare, his place, you ve done many times and maybe your with a different cason you ve been previous day is: is it always a different experts? it's emotionally. Is there are moments where, where something resonates differently, every night or or is or is there a consistency to what is bound to be different? Isn't it because you're twenty four hours older than you were right, your lasted it and right, but do you find new things? shakespeare, all the time yeah you never get to the end of shakespeare. You then if sir, and is it different yeah as of course is doomed because the the the the audience is different, it is is a lot of it. The same miracles, discussion honour this script area
more than half of our activities it is awareness of of what's going on and the technician in you, but the the room for the unexpected the surprise- and you can only do that across if you're working over the other actors and you have to do it together. Tell me about an amazing surprise, either for better or for worse in the middle of a play I gave you like. I have there been times where do you know where something goes right that you dead? Forgive me I'll, never forget, Well, once for the direct call mike outfits, very influential on me, because he at and rehearsal play with his active so that anything can happen, joined the performs and ended in a myth,
that everything is genuinely improvised answer. His rehearsal has preparation is all about discovering everything possible. You know about the characters that when you enter the stage does, matter where you stand on the stage and you can will work out, walk and be wherever you want on this as nothing is set is fixed. You speaking the words you you, you come onto the stage at the point of which the texts as you should and you leave it the same but in between times, though, that the level of intensity of the of the emotions oh well depend on how things are going to my earlier on and though they may be. It is his instructions. You must reach a level of reality. It doesn't matter how low and insignificant it seems to be. If it's real,
Work up from that don't come on when it drew up what the voting you did last night with gentleness thrilled about alone. I don't do that because they were not bistro because it will be a genuine. Then the moment he saw me about exciting that happened. It wasn't to me, except that I was in the oddest, wanted high his. He was doing a production of them, by anton check off the russian, whose my second favorite playwright. Without way going to see you yeah a classic, let's all about acting out she's. All of us here are a boy it should and he was reading a book. Importantly. He had to do that in the script, but he dropped. The actor dropped the book yeah and he did what anyone would do. He picked up the book, but somebody else got the
but first and pick it up for him there and, of course they got it in the hand and they opened the boat to see what had been reading and they re don't play was going on, but there was this book it suddenly an important character in the play, and the book went down on the desk. The boy didn't have the book Annabelle. Somebody else wanted ever thought that have a look at the book of the dead and, after I said tonight, that's business with the poor housing that problem. that take to reassess its never had before impulsive, it's impossible in his production to do anything wrong if something goes wrong? It's right here sooner and aids jet at the spontaneity is the point right, but you can only do that if you know the thing about the characters and of not limit said John knowledge to just what you decide to present to the orders. Are everything is available?
For you, sir, that's almost an ideal for me difficult to accomplish. And and everyone's got to be on the same side, very much give it to live in that moment, all those of you who are you every day, you're. What what will your favorite shakespearian characterised play by? What are you like doing over and over again Oh I see my best. ask me by now, but I was in a wonderful the action and pups is not much point in China, indian enter I'm too old right, so a lot of parts of gum past. You just end up with lear at the end that held out I've done liz levels of prosperity in the ten percent, but though I have plenty of old men left, but they're, not necessarily the leading parts which I may be grateful to in and out each other on the responsibility of carrying the play lear. That was that exhausting and exciting. I played that at bottom, where you were.
Yes, is one the most tiring jobs you could possibly get because for the first two thirds of the play he pretty well never stop talking and he's going to dreadful, dreadful physical and mental decline and is behaving out of catch on bait it's horrible to his daughter and yeah you're you're at a constant level of high emotion, anger and and regret and bewilderment, and as far as going mad in front of the audiences as an and do that phone I am a half and when none shakespeare verdict and gives you arrest and anti does rhythm? Most of the big catches have a good time off stage. Oh yeah, we were in Brooklyn am I come to the fore. As for me, in the play which around an intermission, so I heard about
nearly an hour of stage, although eyes, planking, never swim and I did what I always did John. The show I lay down on the sofa and try to get some sleep knowing that my dress would wake me up in in time to get onto the stage. have a strange data, a new dress and local person who didn't quite know this, but the play and when he realized it was time for me to get ready. He popped into the dressing we'll see me because I was. I was on a sofa covenant with blankets, the cushions. He asked the sound of an in the theater and I was also sleeping quietly. They couldn't find king lear, he was Eventually someone more familiar in more ways than this dresser shook me to life and another round the onto the site
I just made to render bewildered actors who have been living shakespeare, the last three or four minutes, which is no easy task. Now I did apologize to them an awful lot now, when you do we're at the age europe, does it as day? Do you dare? How does? How does that that a fact you have you now, I'm weak, as I imagine it seems to me that, like the story about in one story that I know about the difference to anyone experian, actor and say an actor of another sort, a method, actor or somebody who comes from the inside first over. You know, you know the outside yep, I do do you do become risky, for you is at your age to do something like that. Does it inform date is a frightening. It's right now, to the extent that. These old boys
old and under you think of them ass far distant from yourself and until a new- does your plan. In his early eighties who, as some going mad ah well, it's a bit close to home. Right now same with MR holmes that the new movie, the movie, I'm doing the mood I'm playing him when he's ninety three years old and the and the conceit of this movie is he's the real homes real homes, yes and and he's a he's. Basically tired homes as a real person and His friend dont watson wrote these fictional accounts of his life and that lit they went necessarily accurate and he didn't work. Stop it. I much prefer the cigar to a pipe ha, but that only matters to homes in that in his retirement and he's not work for thirty years and not watson's as long married along on dead. I think.
He has a puzzle about the last case that he failed to solve the case that sentiment to retirement said it before and ass. He is declining physic. I made elections. May he? U? We seem just coming back from a long, janitor japan to stop to the last war, where he's been looking for some alex of life to given the energy to bring back the member so that it can solve this last possible? Because he knows it's important and he can't dined at is done unclosed? aid from thirty years ago, to watch had written down. As as such, with all his customary flat as a fiction as as a fiction, but that holmes knew that the shooter's other and what that other is, is what the film is trying to uncover, and it turns out that The very nearly fell in love? Have he had done? He would have been a different homes and it would have been different.
And and and and discovering this year he opens up his heart size is a wonderfully sentimental, happy ending, no good, a happy ending, because the homes that you're left with at the end is a homes reconcile to himself. stands himself and his life. That's river everybody around him because of it My father see this movie, ro I was rather. Nice is the other old people like you, because reflex they have em. What do you do when you bought is going and and and undermined and you have unresolved yet absolutely but it also fails to younger people who perhaps think pops up to attend. Things now, while they are happening iran, Libya, to lights, it's interesting how hard there can be no less life, isn't it well yeah? You know you get old in your eyes. I can't believe for so many years I was such a you know, obstinate or or stubborn or a
what you used to be angry about. You came and understand anymore, but how I have been angry backing for soldiers. Life is very, very difficult, which is probably one of the reasons iman axel, because acting is really very easier for personal life and you can process big things. Yes, and then it's all written down for you. You know how it's going to end and you know it. You know what happens next and unless you're in one of your friends why is Russia could go any other way? Anything could have been a threat well, but I think that in terms of your life that you, you n really yourself of the burden of being closeted at a fairly young age, which I think was. found decision right, it didn't seem a young age to me. I was forty, nine or forty. Nine Eric, but yeah there are gradations of coming out, is a journey that people go on and have the, but the people who are cost you new raleigh
did o absolutely right people. I worked with people who are employed me now that the two hours of my life. Well, I was close it in crucial. When my close, family, my stepmother, my sister and other my answer. and then a little bit of coming out journey, which most people don't have to worry about, which richest talking about it publicly on first cousins on this and I had never done that- So when, when I, when the government was passing a particularly nasty anti gay law, which I took personally lay? I got angry. I kick the door open, and sat on the radio bbc radio. program that I was guy in debating this particular lama. Was it typically, what was it restricting them all
we'll do let section twenty eight of the local government act and it said that, because gay people have pretended family relationships. No, my god! Therefore it would be illegal to talk positively about homosexuality and and his school. I this bizarre On the grounds that you, if you were to do that, you would be promoting homosexuals, are, you would be encouraging kids to become gay rights as if such a thing is possible animal than it's possible. to encourage guy kids to become strides, enters a
Adorable law, the incidentally, it is the law which has just become the law of russia throughout russia at you, you may not, on the grounds that you may not promote himself, that you can't talk positively positively about gases to anyone under the age of eighteen, as the law in russia, It's insane it just inside a crew, I'm her ridiculous and antisocial every possible way to it in debating that with someone who approved this new law representatives of him, it decided to stop talking about them. You talk about me at the shut him because I had a moment it was I who set up episodes of and so was hugely important to me, because
it was a great relief. I didn't understand that I've been censoring myself. My life had been put to the east been getting along all right when it didn't understand. It was just the way it was you- might assume that that's the way it was. You believe, you'd behave, a certain way. You you, you you're gay. You may not show your factors in public. You may not hold hands with the person you're sleeping with, yet you can't put your arms you can't wisdom yeah. We can't do any of the normal things like that. You can't talk about it, you're different and, of course, when I started out being sexually active, it was actually against the law and yeah hurts to have sex. Yet I have friends who put imprison where they s labour discovered you had sex, you can't believe it can do so for, like a long time are no factory out few months, but our scarlet scars you for life,
knowing that that's a possibility that then then you you restrict yourself and you see. people doing the same thing and his mother said this is the way that life is an buy into the lie that homosexuality is unnatural and natural, shame, courageous, o, absolute shame and that's that's no way to so one? No one answered he as living in a closet, its living in the place where the stock no stable. Is it not any anyone. You know like yourself, you probably know you're, certainly eliza no do much like society than that makes you Lana. Once you stop all that half the religion. How can a joy near proud big guy, none and I'm proud to say I'm gay here- glad to bigger yeah, yeah. Wonderful, word gay yeah. Before that it was queer. You know, yeah some clever,
We said: that's not working this calling ourselves queer les! Let's choose our own word! Hmm! What about blue now, let's color, yellow gold again yeah k. I swear I well there so and then everything everything in your life becomes better. I bet border relationships are improved. No, there is no backlash. It ought not to the few death threats from weeks for be. We have from people who, if they were intending to kill me, were didn't, have god I was living in the country where guns were not available: yeah yeah, yeah yeah so, better actor, I would say a different actor Acting became no longer, a release for emotion, that I wasn't allowed to have?
thousand were mala. Do you think there may be some of your desire to act? Was around that dream? I do not really, I think, that's true of a lot of other lot of actors are gay mia so their hiding that they're finding a sort of fulfilment that their indulging, pretend emotions, but all of the amounts two ears very big degrees front, but but you out Have them in real life you can and onstage, and I can their crime stage. I can live a credible, really had I was just you just pretended. It was very yet my acting was fake. My team was disguise now might is about revelation truth here, everything's batch. So for you, I can't stop talking and telling people come out. Join the human rights right literally like an open. Your heart s, of course, allow. I have to be seen ass.
Didn't you are unable to cry for real onstage until you were elder than forty nine. Forty nine is vast So now I was doing uncle vonny another check of play and the the it's a reaches an emotional states and tears are appropriate and one day that it happens, tat was a degree, ten of us regret bewildering but cry a great relief, and in now When, were you didn't I I don't? I don't do as much researchers. I should probably, but these these different things that are you were you you were given in england. They, the commander of the order of the british empire, though, as being knighted, can explain those a little because we don't have those here. You do your mo My most most countries have civil metals night, and thus they are the.
A quite a lot of medals are given out each year on the advice of the government and the queen has had a state's hands the mount yeah. She she doesn't drop the list, but she shows up for the night- and I imagine, oh Yeah yeah, I'm an does that a grades of metals knighthood surprising, is not at the top. The really There are others beyond that. What are those? Are they secret? No, no! No! No I've got one of them. I'm I'm a I'm, a companion of honour, wow, that's bigger than Nightwing. We are concerned sixty eight of us. You have to wait for someone to die before you, your money, given the company. And beyond that there's another one which is the order of marriage and the renewed twenty five of those. what what what is extremely distinguished So among the night, like not a big deal anymore, like nag at night
Well, nitro draws attention to itself because it comes with the title yeah and, and I find that a bit of a bind them and I don't want to be separated us from everybody else. But if, if the nation says to you, thank you yeah, here's a metal, yeah language on the christmas tree, which is what I do. I wear it on Sunday best occasion Why? Should you resist now, of course, but when it comes to the title, there good reason to resist and unpeopled resistance and, sir distinguished I have said no, I don't want a night of David name, my good friend, the painter who lives close by here. He refused knighthood and others have done the same when it comes to that when it came to the companion of honor me, I didn't mind because it's just too initials at the end of his nose, but she could use or not- and nobody really do you write what does?
pressure to having a sir, I is insulting somehow. Why would you resist it well, because some people think- and I am one of them- that by accepting an honour in the queen's name, I a pi implying and allegiance to a hereditary heads of states you're buying into that system. Monarchy a monica and on the whole monica has its uses, it doesn't, does it get in the way, but Perhaps it does because it is suggested as a heroic hierarchy in society which is fixed at birth. Yes, in the end, is not an elected moment right! That's right! That's what you have right, sir! That's the state, maggie
then I think we ought to have really. And if you accept a knighthood, oh dear, serve the same well the abboud of the queen's noon. She tapped, the showed. How is that day? yo yo yo yo arousing the jujitsu to reveal that the best bits in my upcoming members, but was it today, the days as very exciting, Take your going inside a building that you don't want to get inside and going into parliament, while the public doesn't go accept on these occasions you, stand in line, and eventually a name is called out a new step forward, and that is this familiar person yeah, you know so well under uniform.
And she's I'd lose money. It is extra odin, but I'd like it, because at that moment, when the andes shape you're shaking hands with the nation. That's what she's that's her job she's, representing all the pin who'd, you know all your neighbors, all the people, you don't know century unsay, both in four centres and we belong. Where, together this person is there and she's looking right into your eyes? What she's, like a person, that's irrelevant whether you would like who knows, you doesn't matter appoint. So as this a bit of high sea going on and on, and you are at the moment playing a principle on your play, offers area the queen
as she doesn't have a name, the quick and it's, it's quite delivering but as somebody who, in that we talked about earlier that this human connection, this this auditory. This there's this visceral experience through did, did you feel? I mean, was there way he even with all the pomp and circumstance and yes, but I would like it to be even more special than it was because, unfortunately, the conversation can't be candid, particularly at us, right now, the last time I went to get a metal from her. She said: durham, you ve been doing this for an awfully long time habitue. I wonder she knew what this was. and I had to do so, not as long as you do get mom
and the nation smiled and even had a little chuckle, that's beautiful then she shook my hand, reduces the formality and a handshake, I'm afraid with the queen is not a shake up and down, but a push away. Ah, you may feel africa Well, because she's got more people to do she got to get through it, but you gotta, laugh. I made the nation laugh. Yes, that's a beautiful thing, a very exciting moment. So ok, we ve. Now we have a few minutes left because you have to have to get back to hollywood. these. These amazing new turns of events in your career, where you play these recurring, awful roles in these fantasy pictures. As a as an actor- and I know we briefly talked about at the beginning in terms of it's just another job- but it's a it's a it's a good job right like he was doing well
Do you know when you asked me when you're as to play, gand algorithm, magneto again you're, like it yeah with course. Well, I'm a lot. Have you been to new zealand now you like living where you do surrounded sky and whether go to new zealand warehouse, they have more of its beautiful, overwhelming limit. As you drive down some of those empty roads, surrounded surrounded by rapidly changing scenery, mountains and places volcanoes yeah, hey so saying, I believe in god, because this couldn't just haven't. Ah, yes,
or so I've had I'd had three films worth of that and then there's a comeback into three more and apart from the lure of new zealand, it I couldn't, have anybody else playing gandalf know anybody could play a cheesy sure put on the beard. If we're drawn the bush, they were but I wasn't gonna- have actually hop kids, they not the cannibal. but if are coming to the end of of I'm, going to give you a bit of shakespeare. Okay, I got you a little present, thank you and This helped. The publicist doesn't knock on the door in the middle of it. So it's do it. What that would be improvisational get with iran, but it's over. this speech reply
the distant in the shakespeare cannon because he and others wrote together. Parliament they didn't. Those desert wrote rather like a group Will the writer tv says today, the leading out school, Thomas moore, and thomas more as a lawyer, and he sent out by the authorities?
put down the riot that is happening in the middle of london and the riot is all about the strangers and amidst all the immigrants via people with the food smells different, they looked different, wear different clothes, different language and that better send them back wherever they came from, and it's a special speech not just for what it says, but because it's the only speech that exists in shakespeare's handwriting, that is in the british museum here
Or so you think, oh, this must have meant a lot shakespeare, oh yeah, and this is how it goes. They are so summoned in the crowd. Shouts at the strangest should be removed and thomas moore says, grant them removed.
And grant that this your noise had shut down all the majesty of england. Imagine that you see the wretched strangers that babysit their backs, that their poor luggage plodding to the ports and coasts for transportation than that you sit as kings in your desires authority, quite silenced by your brawl and you in ruff of your opinions, clothed buttered. You got a tattoo, you had taught how insolence and strong hand should prevail. How order should be quelled by this patent? Not one of you should live an aged man
for other refuse, as their fancies wrought with self same hand, self reason than self bright would shock on you and men like ravenous, fishes feed on one another dough, desperate as you I'll wash your foul minds with tears and those same hands that you like rebels, lift against the peace lift up for me. And your on reverent make them your feet to kneel to be forgiven. You put down strangers, kill them cut their throats led the majesty of law and lime to slip in, like a hand, said the king s, clement. If the offender morn should so much come too short of your great trespass as but to banish year. Whether would you go but come,
by the nature of your era, should give you harbour, go you to France or flanders to an in the province, Spain or Portugal, or anywhere that not adheres to england, why you must needs be strangers? Would you be pleased to find a nation of such barbarous temper that breaking out and hitting, violence would not afford you on a boat on us wet that detested knives against your throat spur new, like dogs, unlike as, if that god owned not nor made not. You know that the elements were not all appropriate to your comfort but chartered unto them. What would you think, too, thus used this, since the strangest case
this your mum to unleash in humanity. Amazing thanks for talker me, sir, by is that astounding to hear shakes How amazing was that to be spoken to in in a shakespeare monarch. He was looking right at me. I was looking right at him ass. He spoke those words and it was moving let myself open to feel it, and it did do exactly What I needed to happen, which was, I understood, every word that and I felt it and I felt what he was saying. He taught me a lesson in shakespeare. Among other things, I found that to be a wonderful conversation not use that word often asia.
What's it like, it is not that I feel that often but wonderful. I find it to be an awkward but I enjoy talking now and I need to get into shakespeare big time full on full on shakespeare. Go to dvd ipod back, come there, no books left, but there's other things if you're looking for mugs, you can go to Brian our jones dotcom. He might have a few, please potter, as a child friendly. So much you can do he'll make another batch eventually, but do you can check that out? They say deputy. That can't get on the mailing list? Get the gets killed them, pages a lotta new posters, cool shit. Alright enough selling not selling a name. This is real monster. Now, sorry, as I said, it's been a great day here right when a great days when it doesn't grady. And the little monster is a nineteen sixty five bender champ amp. Ok, so a buzz
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Transcript generated on 2022-09-13.