It’s been 14 years since Peter Bogdanovich made a movie, but that doesn’t mean he’s slowing down. The man who burst on the scene with The Last Picture Show is busier than ever, and he joins Marc in the garage to reflect on a life in show business, starting with his early foray into theater to his friendship with Orson Wells to his latest movie She’s Funny That Way.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The guy or I'd words. Do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck Toby and what the buckskins? How are you this is marion, did you call? This? Is w e F, the podcast? Is this what you ordered is this? What you're supposed to listening to welcome to the show I'm glad you're here today? Peter Rugg Donovan on the show the film director you ma dead. No him from his many impressive credits star with the last picture show or that's the one than we started with that. I knew a moving through. What's up doc, on in two. Daisy miller, you did mask he did their taxes will later there's a lot of things that he did friend divorce. I was being also a film credit film intellectual also. He was involved these stratton when she was
brutally murdered. I and these he was a paper move. Of course, paper moon had a profound impact on me when I was a kid but It is an interesting guy. He also played the therapist on the sopranos. He sat at a long career. He was there and how he would in the seventies when things were changing, was an honor to talk to him. I probably could talk longer. Sometimes I feel that way with some people, but I think we had a good chat and it was you kind of got to say. This personality cause there's a couple, a junctures in his career, where you can ask yourself what the fuck happened there. I asked him a bit, but it was great great to talk to him I'll, be sharing that with you momentarily so the other thing I want to re plug. Is he d how premium hides the it's? It's a new home for all the deputy F archives. If you haven't switched your count over email, support at how dot fm and they'll get you switched over at no additional cost nuisance
I was now premium you get three ninety nine a month if we go to hell dot, fm and used a promo code, w e F, I did it. I got a good deal on it had scattered on my phone looks good. The app works good also. These dates in australia in a london is coming up in dublin, both of them. sir, are our next week and to doing well, but I'm going to be Australia, october, fifteenth, the state theatre in sydney, australia october sixty, Did the palais theatre in melbourne october, seventeenth, brisbane city on brisbane I need you with euro listening australia and you give a shit you're a phantom. I should go, buy your tickets now, because I need to know that it's worth it be digg. What I'm saying I want to come down there there's been some them behind. Getting me down there, but we need to solve a ticket. because I don't want to walk into a sad situation, not a bad place for me to be times communicative, but that don't I don't need to be thrown in,
I'd rather throw myself into it on my own volition, the sadness that bleakness the darkness, there's just always there just right under the surface. We for me to swim in the hard test. Yes, I had the heart tests today. I cup, I had dumb some eggs have been I'm nervous about my health, because my brain wanders I dont have a child. I am dating some but she's, not always at my house. So after my own devices. Sometimes, when I wake up by like tour to wonder. You know how long that's gonna go on for, but I've been having some may aches and pains in this in that and, as you know, those you ve been with me an event when running a couple weeks ago, and today I went to the doktor today was my stress test day.
And this is where they they inject in isotope. I believe it's called into your vain on an ivy that they were dangling from your arm in than they take pictures of your heart, and then they put you on a treadmill and you put your hard up to a certain rate and check your blood pressure. They monitor e k g and then within fifteen minutes or so of doing that they they do another series of images of your heart or stressed post exercise tomorrow I go in for a sonogram and then I guess I'll, the scoop get the skinny am I take her. and then I'll and then while proceed accordingly what to do then, as opposed to with my anxiety or the source of my fear of panic or inability to be trusted. In an intimate relationship and mine. and desire to to isolate and compulsory. be filled with dread as getting to the source of that trauma and working through it and grieving properly I'll. Just
guess I'm whatever it is next that will take me to a fuckin doctor, but I'll tell you, man just sitting. just sit in equipment and the woman who is in charge of shoot me up and taken. The pictures of my heart was like just Four mind like intense in crazy and like how are you what's going on? This is where we're going to do this. Please your arms up. Please put your arms up. Ok, you know when there's just someone's trying to act who's asked a polite, but at the core is just fury just pure fury and You just your interacting with this weird template that just does not fit I literally like usually I'm a I'm nervous at the doctor, and I was just talent and doing what she said and saying thank you and stuff, but at some point when she was loading up a syringe, I said how you doing Kay today, ok
again swab, but I'm ok just swamped and am I go out, there's no bubbles in that book into bar there, because I'd like to live through the test she levelled off, though, but Jesus Christ, I mean, like you know, if you have a, if you can, be in that sort of in goin. On business, as usual, busier thing, I can't it's just if we are to meet our mean there is. I am I to assume that they give people bad news about their fuckin takers every day and that the at some point, work in a doctor's officer. You are a doctor, you real is that your planned obsolescence, or Lessons in general is just part of. in condition and people going to come and go not just in the office but off the fucking mortal coil- and you know you just have to deal with that. As part of the job that guy yeah he was in europe, was in good, I guess you'd make it, but for god's sakes try not to make it business as usual. Why you're in there try to focus a little bit? I mean they were in about I I was on the treadmill with a you know, all these wires hanging off me looking at the akg and they're like so that what you have to be at
I one thirty right in the woman, the intense woman said to the woman I she's ikea and the doctors not even here yet yeah. I know I I heard he was two minutes away and like now you know, can we not have that conversation? in your guy. I want, and I want to thank those people care and that there is hope, your organised in that you know that shit is yet you ve got my right. Doktor literally came into the room for for a minute, I said: did you get my my test results from The other places like I'll check in currently left because a new doktor came in and go? Where are we did with this. and then the woman who was over there with intensity stuck another. Sir fringe into the dangling ivy off my arm, but I'm here to tell the tale and will see what happens tomorrow. Brian Jones made some new mugs yeah deputy f. I'm not going to treat a montoni first, ok, I'm tellin, you first, you gotta Brian are jones
com for the new w e f mugs. If you please, in this far into the monologue. You'll get a mug If you wanted a mug, you fast forward through the monologue, I don't know what to tell you. I guess it's not your day. who else folks, what else hey very excited about this com, station with Peter bogdanovich if you enjoy it, the nice to see you, MR bogdan of it, shows to see you yeah. I'm excited to talk to you buried. It sometimes is tricky because you ve been around a while. You know and- and I know you have this- this new film come now, but sort of hung up a little bit on the whole history, of your work. What do you think is the prime the difference in the way that people are taken
Now because I know you come from a time where, where film was really a lot of time was spent understanding it reading into it. Thinking about There is a whole culture around that seems to have faded away. Is its disappear? yeah in a tomb culture in america's nonexistent right now it was barely just to begin with? Wasn't it only was a period in the in the fifty late fiftys, the sixties, when it was, it was to call bit of stuff going on because the french new wave influence made his way across over Kay day, cinema writing a cinema and all those guys we're on key, whether it was true for Eric, roamer jonah they are made, I am in writing about films in the fifties and then made films in the late fifth and then sarris andrew sarris picked it up in new york. There was Andy sarris and me, and guided,
our times named eugene archer, who are the secret o tourists to, then there was a magazine enable two movie, which you picked up, the same kind of critical position. but there something exciting about movies and it seemed that the you know some of the movies are a lot of the movies that were being made are being understood. Why they're? You know classic sort of hollywood films sorted, determine the language of sentiment that time right, and then some of the movies at you guys made now determine you know what was great this generation, but it doesn't seem like anybody's, really taking on film that way. no you're right, I mean there are certain people, richard brodie, in the new yorkers ass, very hip, and anthony lane is funny and the new yorker and sometimes three good deed, the whole. thing between Pauline kale, for example, raggedy Andy samurai, though that kind of stuff doesn't exist and no one cares and it's too big a fee
old ammunition and highly write about. At the movies aren't very good, even the smaller movies, while the some of the smaller movies yeah but I guess it is or do find that there is a tremendous difference. I mean I know, there's a lot of garbage, but I mean there was also a lot of garbage when you were young too, so sorting out always allowed a garbage right, but that the proportion of quality has his dropped right He bore the proportion itself has grown so large day. You don't even know where, where things are coming period of decadence in terms of moving it is that the same is decay and Is it because they relate and take its true? but when you were when you, you started out as a film critic. No, no, no. I started out as an actor Really in nineteen fifty five when I real in new york,
I've got a job. I was studying acting at the american meriden seas. It's called theatre institute called the american academy of dramatic, oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah, the saturday class with teenagers, and I was studying there and the the lady. That was the main teacher. There said. Would you like to prentice the summer in traverse city, Michigan, they're, doing a season of ten shows ten plays, and you would be an apprentice and would be acting in the children's theatre and also for the main company. If there was something for you well, I did that and actually by the seventh week I was playing a lead in one of the place, and that was my friend and I did the next three summers. I also reasons some children easier
no, we were near. Shakespeare has torreon in central park your heart set stratford sixty vessel in connecticut and play the theatre in falmouth. It was ass if it was also notes that first summer yeah. We had some sort of second dairy movie stars though he came in every week for them to make their money a different one, already: gulag Zaza zoo, picea, richard ireland, Veronica lake, really oh yeah, and they would act. We are they did they would they were travelling around the country. Doing this one play whatever the play was it was summer stock and with some mistake it with a star summers right right and would the resident company would rehearse the play without star a half for a week she would come? I knew you would come for a couple of days before we open we'd rehearsal once or twice in an open with Veronica lake Veronica, She was something right and sylvia sidney. Rugby league was very short, really masion,
It was at the first time you realized ica. It's an illusion is an illusion. So my first and then I studied that the acting was still adler for four years: so I've been in show business for sixty years. That's it it's it's It must be rather feel really we I would imagine, but where did you grow up in the city manner right who and what was your were? What kind of family would you father? My father was a painter. I got a painter minority, a painter artist. What type was his style? Well sort of post, impressionist giant, but with an element of the byzantine as well, could agree break
successful, no known artists are very rarely successful. While they are alive. The people who make money are the ideal is after they're dead. Do you have some of your father's paintings? Oh yeah yeah. My sister takes care of that and it's just you and your sister yeah and I have two daughters and and three grandsons- that's exciting. You know how you doing as a grandfather. Well, I don't let them call me grandpa cause, then it would make me go into my brennan across the eu- that we should now grant file gonna, cleopatra, ok, that's decent papa and what your mom do My mother was working she hated for some years and then she finally ended up teaching herself with some help how to make frames and she became a very. Fine frame maker in framing my father standing near worked out, they were came, they were team,
So when did the the interest in movies begin? Well, I loved movies. From the time I was a kid my they took me to them to see movies the time, what you earlier from memory of a movie. Well, I night, I don't remember terribly well, but I was told that I was taken to see dumbo. He always three and then I hated it we're and had to be taken from the theatre screaming and I'm wondering if it wasn't some pre pre combination. The few journey- I was the first thing I remember really seeing when I was five They my parents, should we do the metropolitan opera, while which was in thirty four stated that and am I aw don giovanni Mozart's, don giovanni with, as europeans and income milliner, remember, being scared to death. When the guy went to hell it then
thing opened up anyway. The upper work was good yeah. and movies? I always like movies when my parents, my father, took me to the museum of modern art to see silent films from my father was about twenty older than my mother and he We grew up with sound thumbs sound didn't commit until he was thirty really so yet a respect for it and each communicated that andrews, also sophisticated, and that because he was a painter, art was an important part of his wife sleep. I went to the museum the met oh yeah, headed meet me all the time to visit his favorites? Yes, and he took me to the galleries on fifty seventh street, which used to be the great place were galleries If that you, you come from such an appreciation yes, and they always did everything they could to encourage me testing. My in my artistic does abortive very, very supportive and you're acting yeah.
And danger in what happened. There was I had had a column in my high school newspaper of before you about movies and fear really do you were you mocking where you were you mimicking somebody or I was I was. I don't know why I decided to do that, but I did it was called as we see it who's, the we and I said, as the royal we had an event reappear You are given ice, gory well educated. They called me bugs because did a very good impression of bugs bunny from the time I was in kinda. Do you bring their backwards? Grandkids and yet they like the bugs bunyan, porcupine but I also ended up being called dean and jerry and marlanx. I did all those impressions
Jerry Jia would jerry was one loiseau yeah, oh sure he did the dean He was something one. It was growing gotta you so good. I just called him this morning at birth, and I said I got enough gas to get to pittsburgh Michael. Did you ever read that Natasha book? What a great book was interesting? Yeah he's he's a hell of a writer that guy very good So, ok, so I will ya alone account for four years and highest like a dope, and it was a very good, very rigid, high school collegiate school school in the country, really fourteen something really I was at its very near the mood, but it used to be on seventies. Have seventy seventy seventh street between Broadway less so these were sophisticated. Kids clear loan wealthy right, right, leg. Dope. I didn't realize, was in high school that I could have gotten into movies free riding that calm outright work. The angle
I could have yeah. I didn't realize that until I got out of high school and then I in order to get to the movies and theater for free, because I was broke right. I said, as I continued writing for some cockamamie college magazine called ivy, yeah magazine which was won out went to. I would if I didn't go to come, but it went all the ivy league colleges is the nineteen still studying with stella. I had lied to stolen said I was eighteen when I was sixteen and that's how I got in because it's supposed to be eighteen, but I was tall and they bought it. And when his, but eighteen- oh no end, eighteen and nineteen sitting alone Diner with five actors from from Stella'S- and I said I like to direct you- I dunno why I said this: who are these actors, actors from anybody and nobody famous or just a bunch of actors, vs duty from the from the
dollars, an isolated direct you guys in a scene, seen class required, was usually to actors doing a scene. or one actor doing my right. Well, I got the former five acted. Get em. We found a scene from the play by clifford. Our debts called the big knife which had a very god, love that at great play with yeah a movie, thereby hangs a tale beer so we did the scene which one toward the end tat. Third, I've and arm When it was over established. The class applauded stellar stood up in
I had very good darlings. You are very good, but you've been directed, who directed you and they pointed at me. I was in the back of the studio and they said peter and a turn to me. She says: bravo, darling, brilliant, so I thought shit. Maybe I should just direct the whole play yeah, so I got the rights from clifford odets haha at the age of nineteen. He wrote to him as I wrote to him aroma long to page. typed letter and two weeks later he said. Okay, I hadn't done a fucking yeah and he said I could do it. I didn't took me nine months to raise fifteen grand to put it on off broadway We did and we got really better reviews in the original production, which was strasbourg under an john john garfield, and it ran a respectable, sixty three performances, cheese and then those out of work re, who did that film is hard to find it
Bob already wrote a great. I love that movie man, while the movie wasn't as good as the play. Well yeah, but but it's a good movie stagger was a trip in nightmare, he's very funny yeah they cut some of his best lines like you have pissed away a kingdom today. I love that guy That's not an area, sir you're out of work, so I work so I started, writing about movies and theatre guy and free and I'm a guy named. Talbot whose exhibitor writer opened a theatre two blocks from where I was living with my parents, yeah called the new yorker theater. He changed. The name of it. Yeah it became very influential theatre. The idea of the theater was to run american classic supposed to foreign firms, which most of the art houses in new york were running far
What year, we at sixty, ok, sixty sixty women, so american classical. point would have been summoned musicals, the western slum things like the things like the informer, the grapes of raw things like, that was sixty sixty one and then I was hired to direct to be the artistic director of a season of summer theatre in phoenicia, new york, and we did ten plays, I directed for them where they were. The four I did was tennessee Williams, cameron, oriel kaufman in hearts once in a lifetime or another play by clifford, called them rocket to the moon and a play by Agatha Christie called tell indians and we had good success.
But I agree with all the more successful I supervise. The other six shows quite an interesting some, so cut so coming into theatre, though I get in directing theatre did. Did you did you we thought it was a more intuitive for you. Well, I saw about three hundred and fifty plays a newark on broadway, so I iced up my mother insisted that I go to the theater when you were a kid when I was thirteen, and I raised the ruckus. I said I don't want to go to the theater. I want to see martin and lewis yeah in the movie. They just don't care. I that you're going to the theater. He saw that a three really when all the time she saw everything She sent me that she's made me insisted that I go to this play. It was henry fonda in a play called point of no return. I remember sitting in the last row of the balcony and I loved it. I didn't think I would love it, but I loved. What was it about him? I dunno is, is great, and but did you feel it because I went to see some theatre recently when I tried to define.
talk about just the other day, the importance of fear. What exactly it is something that you can't get anywhere else. It's like it's a visceral experience and it's moving live near and this exciting and then, After that I went every weekend to the polite. I must have seen three hundred fifty shows between nineteen fifty two and I, and when I moved out to l a in new york, and do you remember like moments where you were like holy shit? Oh yeah yeah, I saw canada hot tin, roof directed my couzin and oh, my god, I saw Benghazi arose. First thing in the end is a man with really brilliant brass offers review. I wrote for Ben was Ben Zahra, and and as a man which was written by calder, Willingham and based on his book about a southern military academy, he would play the kind of sadistic guy. He was very good and very funny That was the beginning for him. That was for desiring to mister hare overnight. So many people got launched a theatre back then I mean and made a big difference. Sure
doesn't happen at all any more because the other way doesn't seem to happen now, because right now. You ve become a movie star tv star than they they drag a broadway. They saw the boy dressing. I didn't realize how much how many people came out. The john garfield dimension, I mean I am pleased with the group here right. Wherever thou strasbourg, people, mistrust reactors growled the group and the group theater was strasbourg, harold clergyman and none stella and then the american method came after that who will around that time, what happened was no death was involved to right, o quivered that he was the kind of the house play right with right group. We were waiting for lefty, which was a big success. That was the golden boiled in blue eyes, revival of that. Not too long goes great. Yes, through so with all that experience in the theater I still broke, and
started, writing for this magazine and this fellow god new yorker two blocks from where I live, and I went to see them and I said I live two blocks away. I liked again free and I wrote: did you run a program note for intolerance and a couple of months ago I said yeah, it wasn't very good. Is that you're right we became friends and I helped him the programming, the theatre a little better. and then a peep book orson Welles is a fellow of film. and I wrote a programme note for a forum in which I called it- the best shakespeare, some ever made, which was absolutely diametrically opposed to what everybody else was saying, which was the alarm, olivia his movies with best shakespeare, was around the hamlet. Well, hamelin and henry fine I didn't like it is becoming ever came at the oceans
I made a movie. So I wrote this not too long programme. Note about two months later I got a call from richard Griffith whose the is the curator of the meeting a museum of modern art life. Your memory and he says we're gonna do a retrospective, the first, the united states of orson welles firms, and we like, You two curated and write all my conning monogram. However, you twenty two, while anyone that's mama column, mama call orson, welles wretched demand for oil and the united states have. What am I doing here? making feature. Is that during the trial in europe, so he's almost done in a way. We know he had still a few more So I said one Are you asking me- at the end of the stick. Why are you asking me there as well I dont designer language, but a lot of our members do, and
our associates in in Europe? Think he's gray mia and we read your programme notin. You obviously are a partisan, so we'd like initiative. you like the guy you're smart. Why don't you do it as write me? Fifty bucks decorate the thing, you're too thing underwrite the minor which was published by double dan enemies. What was the process of curious, you just went film fulfilled. We got the films for them, ok, so all of them. On the other There was a six was of three to six month retrospective and it was very pocket and seen other films are I made if I hadn't, I saw them. I sighed seen most because you don't eat about the relationship with wells way that was laid right seven years, but anyway, I'm so that that was the first I did the museum and around same time, I had gone to come.
If you're on my own, I re saved up enough money and I went. I think it was in early sixty one or sixty two. I can't remember the air went to convince quivered odette too. That may do another play which one night music, which he didn't. Let me why he didn't want to do. He said he didn't want to do any more. One was enough. He he got he he he he got the temperature of the new york theater and it still wasn't on his side totally so he back to what was he doing in hollywood? Your writing squibs. Wait like what Where was summoned, his movie will do the best. One is sweet smell of success. Ok, and he was also directing elected a movie call the story on page one. So he's didn't any weird ethical problem with that because he was sort of like proletaire. a guy. Will he was in love, long story? I think he was one of the guys that was called up in front of us.
An american? Yet, who is here and he gave some names, and I think that question may I think didn't farewell for the rats they impersonally they did. It after all, was said and done that not too many of them could live with it. No, he couldn't at sterling- hey, neither really so anyway I went to california to talk to clifford, but I By this point I was on screening lists all. I knew all the publicity people rise studio right So I got a nice unless it had a friend of mine and harbours magazine. Bob silver is who eventually started the new yorker of your books and he, he said. Ok, you owe me a letter. Saying ok was harbours, he said I will read anything you write about about high right, so I said, when a simon from harbours to do a piece about the state of the art, but how we work. By how I was the lawyer and I to meet everybody here with us
people. Well I mean how much did Bob wise directing my story, and I watched a really. I met hitchcock and I met carry graduate I grant. Actually I met through through clever because they were very good friend. You met her. Koch was at a long meeting. Did you was it was conversational yeah yeah had a conversation with him. He kicks off the way. I wrote an article eventually about this whole trip. Yep and harbours past and honestly. the new yorker passed on it, but I didn't I acted so soon accidentally, introduced to the managing editor of esquire right, Harold haze, hungary, Harold haze and I told about the piece he read it he loved it and they used it as the lead piece in their august. Nineteen sixty two issue, and that was the first thing I did for esquire and I did subsequent. Maybe ten articles reservoir. I got to go, get paid, that's how I lived.
writing for four esquire, and the irony is then, I did up. Another play: interact, unifies another plan which want which we had done in summer theatre called once in a lifetime. Ah many about, I wish we had thirteen sold out. Previews played great, but opening night was not a good night and it will get. We got sort of mixed reviews, but we didn't have enough money to keep running to be closed after one night. very depressing and dumb there, because we were under financed at the whole long story anyway, friend, I'm a friend of eyes who was now At this time. A friend of ours, whom I met when I was doing a profile on jerry lewis for esquire, did you sit down with jerry? Oh yeah was with jerry for three weeks. It is if we it's interesting to me, they're back in the day, people would spend a month with people doing the interviews, so he spent that long with what a lack of work. in a fifty year old, jerry loose, how he was thirty five humbling I am always what was experiencing very interesting yeah.
I wrote. A very long piece was called. They said it was the longest profile ever published by oscar. What did you find complex about him while he was pretty complicated guy? In what way will I just say? I mean he was funny, but he was also in introspective and he was what was the place he was directing producing, writing a story. Then what did you think of his reputation as being an art, tour and and respected in France? What did you think of of his films as a critic? I liked some of them yeah and I met his favorite director frank tashin who is also a common EU cartoon direct anyway Frank came to new york. To see us he's. What do you want to direct theatre movies, acid movies, What are you doing? You are, you sure, come at me common allay within four months polly, and I my whose why moved to us
juliet children already mona the express purpose of getting into the movies. And a year after we arrived at a bike of absolute coincidence, I was at the sight showing of a movie. Wasn't a preview arriving same showing the movie called they of angels. A frenchman. sitting behind me was Roger coreham right who with somebody who knew somebody I was with as introduced to roger You knew him of obviously that time of him of him here and he sat down Did you stuff esquire? Where would you like to write for movies accede? Yet that's what you thought Is this the best mamelukes work it s, amazing. So within a year, not only was I from your job writing movies. He asked me to work with him on film. He was gonna direct he asked me to read the script and gimme his opinion. Give him my opinion and
I said, is terrible he's any. I know its term I'd like you to do arrived. He shall pay a three hundred dollars and no credit. but at the time, so you would obviously read a lot of play worked a lot of ways directed plays you you're, taking apart movies, you are on sort of the cutting edge of film, criticism your involved in that you understood how it all worked, but had you in a scream, at that time for before you, but you knew the form Well, I knew it. I knew it I'd seen enough movies to know the I'd get the idea and I'd read a lot of screen but I forgot to mention that after the wells retrospective at the the in place. I met Harold haze esquire. I saw a film by howard hawks called atari, ah, which was his new film.
And I called my friend at paramount- and I said, look if I can get the museum of modern art to do a hawks retrospective with paramount pay for it, and they certainly got back to me. I said yes, so I called richard Griffith and I said we'll we'll. If, if you'll put on a hawks retrospective panel, I mean yeah paramount will pay for it great. He said I was got. I got paid by paramount for the first money I made from movies two hundred a week to write the monograph interview hawks, went to california interview hawks and find all the films. What was how is, after you out, he was became a lifelong friend. He has did jerry as the jury loath to this day. To this day I call him the other day. Really, oh sure, you dare call them a book about a year ago, air jerry's. In fifty years. We know each other, yours we have enough fiftieth animal
hey sam pages edged with fifty years since we know each other. If that's what you get back, he was very happy about the way. So I didn't the retrospective of our talk, which was the first in the eyes, it's. Also and the following year, I said to the museum: how about hitchcock, as do retrospective said fine. We got universal the palest amid sixties. This is or was sixty one yards, sixty two which seeks to all these guys are still making movie. Oh yeah get some of your each gags retrospective gordon, was coordinated with the opening of the birds MIKE. Met hitchcock again I'd already madame and do and did the my rough for that universal paid and then I left after that I left new york and went to calculate so you so I guess corpsman offers you this writing job Nagano assume you're. Given way. Taken in your life up to that point and given
you were intellectually assessing the styles of all these guys that once you started to get these opportunities that must have ensured a tremendous amount of pressure by these these your ear wrong brain on how you were gonna? Take this stuff on We know that thing I did was roger ass, we do a rewrite on that, while they ask that too is a terror was right. and I wrote about, eighty four percent of right and he loved shouted here, he kept running out of time and if he wasn't gonna go over three weeks, so he kept saying he's. Would I can't do this? Will do the second you who's gonna second unit is, I dunno. Anybody can direct second unit. My secretary going to rangoon directed air as well. I'd like to direct at walmart will see. So I did direct the second year now this is yes, are you coming into? It would know film directing experience and you a camera guy and he some writing guys in a guy you sound, I had the whole crew right, but you, but you
the watching? How corpsman was do? Oh yeah I'd watch John for directing for three weeks in monument? When you interview you, when I did a piece on him for esquire, so what It was what was for directing at that time, a giant autumn ha and I watched hawks directing real, bravo, really eldorado Whitworth dean. Denizen real problem of this was that this was bombed, mitchum and John Mitchell John wayne, so you're hanging out with these guys here for a weekend? And you like this little kid almost when I was a kid, so you were a young now. What was your demeanor around these guys were? Were you? Were you gracious or annoying or really liked me? They liked you yeah ford. Like me, he may picked on me all the time, but and mitch. Jesus Christ by guy is that all you can do is ask questions Have you never even heard of the dead declarative sentence?
and what was mitchum like edgy, air, energy and kind of outrageous kind of shock me and my wife if x Y and what your wife do at that time. Was she in the business which she was. I hired her for that season of summer theatre that I was the artistic director in new york. I hired because she's a costume she started as a cop, okay, okay and I tried to push her into designing sets. She was scared too, but then she did when we. Finally, when I started making movies she did really cheap and did the production design now and John wayne. He spent a lot of time with right later. I spent more time with him, but quite a bit on that that one week or we can have, we were there I talked to him quite a bit like one night when I think about where you just a couple of guys. You mention outside the directors or why jerry louis and my John wayne were challenging kind of characters. In a way when they were, but they seem to like me here: did you find that day the creativity like
what am jerry louis, whose becomes sorted this weird caricature of himself? Did you find intelligence, air, that was surprising, is very small, very bright and sensitive the duke, was, was extremely the sting and and and like a kid is like a like a huge ten year old love making movies. You never went to it he would sit around on the set playing with his sick, shooter or playing with the rifle and smoking and talking to the crew. and he talked to me, a lot like to be out in it yeah, he never went to his trailer. Mitcham was always in australia. Haha so? Ok, so you eat, you spend all this time and now you're out new. Did the you wrote the movie doing ok, second unit so you mean I raise a big brag. Yes right and I did second union. Actually I did the fight worked with the first unit because there was an scenes that he had dropped with Peter fonda nancy sonata that I had to get some scenes with bruce turn, so the corpsman tk.
at that time. The people, the actors that we're round, because I don't think any I dont- have a sense of once you gimme a sense of of that operation over there roger. Down in dirty whistler. Do it fast? right, but he was his own thing. Radio! You worry. This picture was made for american international studio, but had the feeling that it with some sort of weird, almost like shadows, studio system over there that you here The crew of actors and crew are shooters that he used all always because he was making how many movies a year when he made quite a few ripe, who produced quite a few indirect, so there it was It's been sort of a lively place was very lively and I went I shot the stuff in. He call me in his office. He added The editor was mighty helm. Him a direction roger it was meant. Is money says you stuff, doesnt cut me doesn't cut near his, it doesn't come.
It's all made me, probably cut it wrong. We will go down and look at it. So I looked at as it's cut around so I said to roger: it's cut wrong to cut it yourself, then I saw cut them. Don't you I use machine the now it will go downstairs guns will show you the received the editor. Was I learn data to start doing that was Roger you throw you in the ocean say swim at he'd students when you drown em? How long did you spend over there? Did you spend a lot of time at gormans operational? I worked on this this movie for twenty two weeks. so was, did everything you could possibly do you look for locations rewrote described direct. So the story- your movie, I have a lot to do and it was most successful movie and writers career really huge hit one of was the title of it. While the angels are actually was the first successful off holly, movie were before binding climate right,
It was a sort of the beginning of the new hollywood away because it was a very counterculture movie. It wasn't, a great right was very counterculture ended. it was. Who else did you meet when you were there during that? Twenty two weeks was coming through was nicholson. Around was the near I most jack, but not then I met him later here. He was. He worked with with rug with roger with. The picture was quite a big success. And then he felt then I had had something to do with that. So he offered me a movie to direct myself with your name on it, yet with my name on it, and that was targets targets that began with him saying boys. Owes me two days work This is like bores carro it. Seventy right. Seventy nine using the two days were Andy says now. Here's what I want you to do. I want to shoot.
To the shoot, a twenty minutes with car off in two days. You can do that. I've shot whole pictures into debt. I he says, then I want you to get a bunch of other actors and shoot twenty minutes with them to now. I've got four. Menace, and then in the movie was about it a psychopathic sniper right? Well, I wasn't it wasn't anything All it was always a script. There wasn't a script. What does ivy basically was telling me how he wanted me to make a movie. Ok should come, should Roger carla for all of us here today. Twenty minutes re shoot use twenty minutes of footage from another picture that he'd made called the terror with with boys, cobb and Jack Nicholson. Another you twenty minutes of footage from that, and I got forty minutes of color and now doing what exactly
and then you shoot with some other actors for ten days. I have forty minutes, not write a new aim and ecology me do it I said sure. So we spent pollyanna eyes. spend some time to figure what the fuck to do with boys carbon two days and mostly like. Oh, I met him, yet He was in london and write his england. Well, when I was in new york just reese recently before that, Harold Hayes. The editor of esquire had said to me. You ought to make a movie buddy about that guy in Texas who shot all those people, Charles whitman, at the college They went up to the university of taxes tower and yet not by thirty people was one of the first of those kind of india. Yes, monsieur preliminary the essence and I sent my making will be met, and then we will work.
with Carl. We trying to figure out what the hell to do with Carla up here. We couldn't imagine him being a heavy. It was to use too old air and that kind of victoria- in I didn't seem to me very horrible anymore and we ran the terror terrible movie and I was shaving one morning trying to figure out what the hell to do with this thing. And I was shaming. I thought to myself. I know what I'll do will begin. The picture with the end of the terror and the lights will come up in the projection. Room or, as we say in their next to roger, in your turn, to ride to say that it is unquestionably one of the worst films ever made after they had to say we're going to shoot report, I made I made a joke yet for myself right and I said, wait a second, that's not a bad idea. If he's an actor yeah in a movie or we don't have to you, we can, we will have will have to justify that mature. So is that right? Okay, so is your way of getting around? Is getting around yeah he's an actor here, and then we saw if he's an actor and he wants to quit, acting because his kind of
Laura isn't horrible anymore right. What is horrible is this guy in texas who shot thirty people? That's modern, modern are right, so we we so that's the script so we wrote a script cost cutting between these two one month on the other, one is on a rampage. Aha, roger reynolds said this is a brilliant script. Best script I ever have had ever had to produce, but you can't possibly shoot all that stuff with call up in two days. So you have to rewrite eyes right. You just said it was the best grip in a Finally, we got caught off for five days, I paid the extra he lighted, the boys loved this and roger liked it and paid the extra few bucks. Ok for five three more days we still had a shoe boys in five days are at risk. In five days and you seventy nine sonia he was Grady, lay like me, you didn't like roger law, but damn
I liked me and we got along very well and he liked the script haha and we shot the whole picture in twenty three days, and that was your first. That was my first film and how that do not well. What happened was I didn't want american international to release it. So I had a friend of mine, actually jerry Louis secretary carol. Sarah senior had she had been very second. She was now working for barbarians. Who was the head of the studio, panama right, I'll write? You know it takes mrs! It is sixty seven six I'll get him in sixty is. Are you just got the job in recent? I said the carol, can you get evans to see my picture and she saw not dry? I get a phone call at least later from barbarians. He says you know you ruined my evening last night, I said what what do you mean, because I wanted to celebrate caroline begging me to look at your movie. I thought I'd look at a real and go to dinner. I couldn't turn the
thing off. We want to buy it and thus worm. I was the beginning. Your relationship above evans, lebanon, sign a seven picture, deal seven picture and they didn't whose me on any of them and you weren't thirty. It allows no, in thirty eight nineteen sixty eight I was twenty eight. But what can we speak to that for a minute about? What you said is that the the the first corman film that you were involved with was really the turning of the tide in terms of the the studio system? their their inability to see what the new market was. I don't know, the corn corner was necessarily on the pulse of that, but certainly knows he what you did we started to their ok, so that was beginning of of their there whipping and you guys find in your way. Is the new hollywood been writing, but been sort of in a weird way that day they had lost track. In writing DE. Was it a natural evolution? Now I was all kind of coincidental was. I think that that Bob Evan,
at that job and Bob barber was re, bright, answered, old fashioned, kind of studio had actually, and things were interesting that period and did you start finding here or meeting these other guys were involved in that like time freakin, who are you going? embrace it? You were close. What none I didn't get along. Why I like to older people are like cary grant we spend time with josiana respect for that for their work. I like what they did you I wasn't friendly with any of those directors actually ring. You started one day when I met them near and how did we get along with where they friends were, or were you an outsider kind of her? I didn't hang around with those guys
why, because they were living it up or you. I just wasn't my thing. I dunno I dunno it's weird yeah, it's weird you didn't like the party know, I wasn't a party or what fact what happened was then targets was my open door to align thing got pretty good review yeah times rebooted you twice in a hundred times and we showed it to a producer name birch snyder, who is added, is there, a company can be bs, which was bob rifles in director who had made. I'm using fire? Yes great, and and
Steve, blount or and and empty and bored snyder- and you go out with rifles and yeah. I did very much- is he still around yeah? He lives in aspen now, and so we showed birch snyder had seen targets and he says to me: if you ever have a picture you want to make bring it to us we'd like to work with you, okay, so I threw a series of odd certain coincidences. I read a book called the last picture show by Larry mcmurtry, and I said I'd like to make this and I sent it, and I called bob birch and I'd like to make the last. Yeah and here's the book I mean I like to use. It will send me the book. I said why don't you buy it here and he bought it and read it and said we'd like to make it right, and so I did and now Ok, so it's not was the birch that would never in its history That's history made me a star, it did make you a star and you know it was at that time- was proof
could have decision issued in black and white and I imagine you have to fight for that. Will that's funny story. yeah sure I swear you hear sign it. As well as my gotten to know. After seven years he called me. Suddenly You don't have to the retrospective. Yes, seven years after the retrospect I now and made targets, and I was married and I had a daughter. We had another one after that, put an orson cause. Nooses peter dies it yes, this is why some miles, I can't tell you how long I wanted to meet. You said that's my line he said I said. Why would you want to meet me because you have written the truest words ever published about me pause in English, a hand and their eyes. It really is, and what are you doing to mine? We will meet me at the pole, lounge and, I said sure, neither are we met, so I got to know him and where was he at them
I mean what was his, he had, he was doing dean Martin Sherwin tonight show and varied, become a sort of a clown. Well, you, kidding around. It was kept him going and he may do. He had made the trial and had made chimes at midnight so fast, tat movie. Just before I met him, which I love. But when you say was keeping I'm going in this guy was a genius had? How are you abandon him. Oh sure he he couldn't get a job for what reason he never had picture. That's basic. When the xylem out anyway, so I'm sitting with orson had breakfast- and I said I'd like to and in this film I'm making I'd like to get that depth of field that you got with talent.
with citizen kane and to be who was that was at toa was greg, Tarik, Cohen yeah and he said you'll never get it in color, I said: well, I I think the film has gotten faster now, maybe you'll never get it in the car. So what do I do? Then? You shoot in black and white. Do what I love to shoot in black and white, but I don't think they'll. Let me have you asked No, I haven't, but why don't you ask you know what I say about black and white? Don't you know what it's the actors friend Why do you say that it was because every performance looks better in black and white, namely a greater performance in color? Are you so the birch night, and I said I'd like to shoot in black and white. Is why I said well
I recently told me. I almost said that I said that I think we can get the period flavor quicker and I think the performances look better and he said oh and he kept got back to me. We glad he's ok go ahead a couple of years later I asked him: how come you? Let me do it so easily. He said I thought it would be a novelty. He was right. Was it cheaper marginally right in making sure there was a novelty area, be demanded attention here, so that was big hit men, and that was the first movie for what bridges, maybe a member for some economic aid from us and in what timothy bottoms the atom bombs and civil shepherd course likeness rulers region and what an end There is one the asker Ben johns bench since we got nominations are, you are not if a and swift, and not even thirty
I was I thirty that was nineteen. Seventy. While I was there, I was thirty one, thirty two, so this is This is my boy. This is like this is a huge deal huge deal unbelievable did also got great reviews. Anyway, we got great movie thumb. You know that newsweek, It was the best film by young american directors and citizen kane. Now, oh my, the doors in korea here he sent me a telegram. winning reading your mayor reading your notices is like opening presents for christmas? Ah shit, that's no reason. Yeah did he see it yeah? He saw he said, that's not the script. I read and liked the script and he said: that's not the script. I read as As you know, it is new transformed it did, you ever think about using it as an actor, no yeah, we almost nickelodeon together he didn't what happened? I don't know their interest in working out the students and want to pay him his money and he got pissed off
so after last picture showing what was the pressure on you? Now that you are the day, the new kid in town and know what happened was mark? Was it wasn't like that? What happened was? I was Did you make money? Oh yeah. Ok belong to joint customs union three and it made, I think thirty million so did my. Will. The picture was barely four nine finished. It would not. I quite completely finished year and I get a call from my agent and he says, Steve mcqueen is looking for a director to do this new movie, the getaway and em we'd like like steve, to see the last picture, show steve in runs. The last picture show it comes out of, and he comes over to me, says: you're, a filmmaker man, I'm just an actor you're a filmmaker. I want to work with you.
I mean we start and they hired me a good guy. He was very nice me. We started to work on the getaway with walter hill was going to write it. point. I started work in the script walter and am I get another cough An agent my agencies is barbarous. Dry sand wants to see the picture. She Mcqueen last picture wants to see last picture. She supposed to do picture wonders and they'd. Like you to directive, but she wants to see the picture for us, and so she sees the picture she loves it. and she says I want to do a picture with you and I said: well I don't like that script that they've sent me, which one was it was called a glimpse of tiger, never was made I said I just don't like it much and she said well, I'd want to do a drama with you, I said. Well, I just did a drama went to a comedy or comedy. I said: well, the getaway wasn't a comedy no, but she wasn't going to be in that separate right, but I wasn't. I was just working on the script.
ok, I never did make who she was packing pack and ok The reason why some last anyway, so I go John John Kelly was the head of wine, or very nice guy had met him before and he calls me news offers any says Peter fiber really wants to make a picture with you right as John I dont like that script he's will. Let me put it this way. If you had to do a picture with barbara stress and what would you do. I feel I do a kind of a screwball comedy. You know daffy dame square professor. You know like bringing a baby. Do it really said yeah? Who would you get to ride it? I simply worked at esquire with Benton newman and he said fine use them. They just did something for us. Can I produce it yeah, so I walked out of the office with this. I here producing interacting by MR sends next picture. We were.
in the middle of shooting. When picked, you shall opened, they want open to new york. Film festival with the last picture show india I couldn't get there friday night, so they The second night, because I was shooting a movie, the second shooting, why we're gonna die That's the way you have streisand soon and I said, move the premier they move screening the account at the new york from personal data, but now it with them. interesting decision rights a year like you, you know their westport. Your show was something that sort of honour in hand even opened right. When I was in the midst of directing. What's up does in fact. When what's of dark opened in march eighteen, seventy two last picture shows still pay you first run so I had to pictures in the top ten variety for about six months. It's interesting though, to me that, like that, what's up doc is almost a throwback will, as its screwball common right
so I gave cause like you know when I think about the last picture, Charlie, it's almost an artful. Well, it was kind of an- but you just wanted to do is give our company dishonor. I thought I've done that were made Do something different? there was great rain. He made a lot of money to head for above them mr right, Lorraine, the story right in the biggest from what was he a star lifestyle? last year how it was watchdog story so then alright It became dry since most successful from in her career, except for ah Yeah- was successful in front and now we're how's your personal life. At this point it s starting to come. Unglued! Oh well, that's cool! You came on. During the last pics to show, because I fell in love with civil air.
I fell in love with me and have married and had two kids and she was something her. She was something. Are you guys, friends, yeah, really yeah? We talk all the time. That's amazing feat! Well, yeah, but she's, a good girl. I love her and then what happens when we many due weight? Will then I was gonna what I was going to do with western air with Larry. With mercury. I said to learn, is due west yeah, he said who's gonna be. John wayne Jimmy steward henry fonder of a guy, the shepherd, the clan, you brother member, then then Johns
in Cloris leachman Ellen receives Jesus Christ. What kind of western you on a race track? They start somewhere, they go, some will Larry Larry roe, I knew was had western stuff in him. He hadn't written a western yet and he wrote a three hundred and fifty pages of three hundred fifty pages of screenplay and I rewrote them and cut it down to about one hundred and fifty pages offered it we gave it to. The act is fond of said. Okay, you do in a second Jimmy said now I'll do it, but why Let the horses go. Would ensure that I make that clear, Jimmy and then duke turned down, so well paid it's kind of an end to the west western and I'm not ready to hang up the spurs, but
if you don't die in the picture. Duke is no, but everybody else does so. He turned it down. So I said I'm not going to make this without John wayne, so I said to Larry grant you write it as a novel. Thirteen years later he wrote lonesome dove and won the pulitzer prize, based on my script. He also bought bought the script from warner brothers for eighty five thousand. What was it called the streets of laredo, which was the sequel that he wrote to lonesome dove. He called it ST louis anyway, great story yeah, so he didn't do that. He did. The last picture show what's up doc in the third movie was what happened was I I turned that paramount came to me and said: would you do this book called addie pray yeah, and I read the screenplay that I'm assignment. I said it's it's good, but I'm doing a western, though in the western fell apart. They still with their want me to do this addy pray, which
but a con man in his little girl? but westerns word dying at that point, Martha them. They were doing too. We can do on the way right. The way was still doing less true. That was successful, so Mr Kok learn it was. Here was a year. He offered me that so I read patty, pray- and I said, ok I'll, do it but needs rewrite and I worked with diamonds the media, a rewrite, and I I've looking through songs of the period is- was nineteen thirty five always look at what was the hit songs of that period and I come across on called it's only a paper move here and I thought paper moonless good title here so I It depends on us. I like to call a paper moon. I do what the hell you talking about. Yeah I said: well, I don't like addy pray sounds snake ass. It was best selling book ere. I said many copy
it sold in hardcover and they said one hundred that one hundred thousand refugees. If we get one hundred thousand people to see the movie, we're really going to have a big hit, all right you look, we don't have an argument with you. We are guaranteeing the time right now make the picture. so I called orson. He was in england. He was in rome, putting a picture ray, and I called, method orson. We didn't talk him in it. He says no, I'm busy. What do you want? I said what How did they get this title paper? moon, a short pause says that title is so good. You don't even need to make the picture just released. The title We are the e r, the selling in your voice. He does he liked it. It was a good to a good time. I called turned out to be a good title. I call my sergeant, the writer and, I said, remember those we've got. Heresy, au revoir? I am a carnival scene in the picture, ready. Member. Those
cardboard moons that people used to sit in and take pictures yeah. I said, let's put a scene like that in the picture with tatum wants to go sit in the moon and he doesn't want to go or whatever he said. Why are we doing it? Societies, as is so. We call the fucking thing paper, moon and nobody will say why, and that was that there was a big hit. Two oscar where She won't. He asked at the ammonia here age of ten I seen that movie when I was a kid and I was like Jesus Christ is the greatest movie. She was amazing. She was amazing, though you still friends with her yeah rarely she's in mind. Good you and the one that's coming out now she lay money that what did I ask? Those does a buddhist cameo just for the less nice. It's a nice! loyalty like civil did, that to she's gonna come into briefly in which had louisen Michael shannon. They added did so. Did ok. So they did those three movies, which were huge. Yeah and then the tides turned a little Well, then I made a three that weren't successful happens.
for various reasons I made daisy miller with civil with me up. The new yorkers wrote a piece about recently in which they said. It is very rare for a great book to be made into a great movie, but bogdanovich did it with daisy miller, which was very nice of the new york. It got good reviews, but it was way ahead of the curve on those kind of films, merchant, ivory, hadn't done any yet so it does it fair Well, let me know if it got mixed reviews, but I mean in in in retrospect whether we won the best year. I won best director at brussels. I'm not sure I should have made it. It's a good. I liked the pictures, a good picture, symbols very good. It's it's! It's! It's very authentic! Very! I thought of the book. So, as a director, there seems to be some level of like it. It's a unique position to be a director and an in. Do you think that your experience and in spending time Orson welles in watching howard hawks and watching John forward
and in having these experiences with our debts and everything at gave you a certain amount of confidence. Oh yeah, because, like you, did the fact that you were detached from the rest of the crew apple on those guys who your contemporaries and obvious. We were all competing on some level on someone so by It seems to me that you you, you sort of take it the way you talk about a picture, elinor or not. Failing. Is that something you you come about in the moment or, as is something that you are able to do now, able to do now. We made a musical that was completely screwed up. Can at long last lava holborn, amusing oasis screwed up and am I would you choose to do that? Nineteen? Seventy five I felt like musical set in the thirties, and I thought before her, and it was pretty good. It wasn't good enough and we had a couple of bad.
reviews and then I recall the picture and then didn't up didn't pre, when we were being rushed to open the music at the rynason musical and the worst possible cut opened. bear a terrible reviews and picture died, and I recorded and thought it was somewhat better. But I do said forget Do you ever think in retrospect that your your your nostalgia might have fucked you a little? Maybe I dunno. I think it was just I didn't get it right. we are going hard to make. Were you about it? By that point they were done. Well yeah, but I didn't notice is like, You want to do. I want to do it and we did it live too, like they didn't lane miserable her anyway is a funny story to them
which is years later. Thirty years later, mere twenty five years, not about three for four somebody me says you know at long last lovers. dreaming on netflix as it really so I go to netflix, elevated and watching and also raising. This is not my cut really that scene, I cut that seem wise it here, but it's good. Why did I cut and then another scene comes up and, as always, I like, I cut that scene through and they put it back who the fuck made this guy found out that the head of fox editorial a guy named Jim Blakely who had died. Two years before this event, air had recut the picture himself haha, and it was quite close to my original preview cut as it was different. He kept scenes that I'd cut. He cut scenes that I ne did a brilliant job and so good that we showed it down into macular gaming award, people loved and fight.
I started screaming and now they put it on blu ray. That was so. That was that guy. That was, that girl that Jim Blakely did. I owe them a great favor. He got it right, Then I did nickelodeon, which I had a lot of problems with the studio, because I wanted to do it in black and white and they wouldn't. Let me do it in black and white. Even though I'd had two hits in black and white and the head of the studio, you would think movie with that held. It makes more sense to do why I know right, so I didn't think you do. Or I bear. I was happy man- and I took three years often when around the world twice with simple, Finally, we have a good time. We had a good time. We had a great time in them I need to do something different, and I did a movie called saint jack, which won the critics prize at venice and Ben, is our one, but actor and so on, and it was a modest success. I particularly made it for roger corpsman because I didn't wanna
I wanted you ve been design, they wanted to use. This studio said now we'll do with it We want Paul, newman or warren beatty or something I said long run do with getting Ben bizarre, so I made it for roger for a million dollars till he produced it. He put his name, Ok, up the money, and I like that picture server called picture, and then I made they all laughed, which was my very personal film to me, with with audrey hepburn in Benghazi era, that was, I fell in love with dorothy stratton and she was murdered and that fuck me up for quite a few years here. I can't I can't even imagine how many years, like thirty eight I didn't make a movie for- never movie released for five years. I was writing. I wrote a book about her called the killing of the unicorn dorothy strategy.
Nineteen, sixteen nineteen! Eighty! How long were you in love with her before that happened? How long did the relationship go on, for he actually knew each other for about a year, but we had a thing going sort of for about ten months and then it happened. So you knew the guy never met him. No
No, he didn't the murderer, wasn't mainly because of the because he was estranged from her because of me yeah. It was much more complicated than that a lot to do with playboy and I don't want to go into it now, but it was not a cut and dry thing where he is jealous cause retina. Wasn't that at all, wasn't that so how'd you feel about the film star. Eddie was a piece of shit, just completely inaccurate on every level and Bob Flossie. I had helped by Flossie when he made Lenny cause. I helped him with the black and white and he bought the rights to a two, a three part of our three part article.
About the the murder which was published in the village voice. I think, and it won the pulitzer prize or something. How was that article? Not right? Nobody knew what dorothy was like. They all wrote about. I some blonde bimbo and had no idea what she was like. She was extremely smart and and very very sensitive and and fuzzy blocked the rights, and I call them- and I said bob, why you making a picture, and he said well, we think it's a good store as well. You don't know the story, I don't know the story so how the fuck can you know the story where we think we do know the story I said bob whatever you want to do is up to you, of course, but while I can say as if I was if it happened to you, I wouldn't make a picture about he made. The picture was a complete flop and it was his
the picture killed him, it wasn't good picture, it wasn't anything like what she was like. I never knew him did, that phone call and with fuck you know just goodbye. I never spoke to him again. I had to see star eighty because the family was thinking of suing him suing the the studio and we did, but we released we sued and they paid off one hundred thousand dollars and they cut some scene. The notion that were just bullshit and then you got involved with her sister yeah, some years later, when we, but because diet introduced me to her when she was a kid eleven and a half or something and then of course, the murder abroad are found, he's very close and the reason I got to be lovers, but when she was about eighteen, in this movie that you have now. You wrote with her that's something we were married
in fifteen years, and then she wanted to get divorce. She wanted to do some stuff, yeah and I loved her suggest, whatever she wanted and were very cool, was still obviously he wrote the film together a closer look at the film together and we we wrote the film to get back in it in the round two was. I was wondering about that, but but we're very close. We see each other all the time and in fact I used to when I was living out here recently. I stayed with her apartment it's. I can even imagine how devastating that almost have been. How chaotic my came! Imagine at the terrible, more and terrible and you in how the hell did you work right! Well, I didn't wanna work yeah. I thought I would never make another picture really too heartbroken yeah. It was just tragic who gives a shit for pictures and then that whole thing with, like just the nature of of the scene, yeah that that side of hollywood, the you know like when you talk
won't you're going back to the big knife and then you sort of living gazette. That seems to me that that story was an intimate story to you, but for the for the vultures you know is a big story. It was a. It was a. It was when I got a show business tabloid harsher and And and and you're the the guy in whose use has no voice in it, not really as fucking devastating yeah who's was pretty bad, was worst part of my life what what did you come back with one? Did you finally start working well, I was broke because I bought back the rights to their laugh, the picture than dorothy in hungary have never been cast right. Those audrey hepburn john router then desire dorothy, and that was s screwball comedy it was a kind of a bitter sweet. Romantic,
whose funny and also serves either is the best whom I made up to that point, as I still think, if my best man really was my favorite, anyway. I gotta go back and watch it again. I remember seeing it, but I wasn't goes- is young was that, like eighty one eighty two eighty one area I mean I was just in just gradually- maybe high school, it's a good picture listen Anderson and no abound bark and Clinton. Tarantino love that movie- oh yeah, Clinton, put it on his ten best list of all time to those. but sparing any work on the eu to have a voice over right. He didn't kill built what's best. only because he knew that you did that that I did I was always the discharge in my pictures. He knew So he asked me to come. Do thing. what happened was. universal offered me a picture after I'd finished riding the book about dorothy with took me about three years.
They offered me a picture com mask and it was about a hundred page screenplay and covered the last ten years. This boy's life and I agreed to do It- I needed the money, but there was another reason. Also it I'll tell you what I'll get it. When we were living in new york with mean they all laughed and I was basically living with dorothy staying at my suite at the plaza, although she had a sweet elsewhere. Another other. She stayed must ve reliving the life we were living together Gripe I mean like having a suite of the plaza you are. You know you were living a hollywood life. I had a mansion in bel air yeah. We use go to double days, bookshop at which goes to close at midnight or, if fifth have not gone, we're all gonna leave to go down there around ten thirty or some eleven o clock at night and getting boxing and one of the only play
first play the dorothy you've ever seen and run broadband. Only when she did see was the elephant man and she was bowie. before bowing okay and I saw with boy, but I, but that was later and she loved it. very interesting, and I didn't I didn't presidency, but we were to double days and there was a book about the the real elephant man, whose name I can't John Merrick Merrick met america, IRAN and she had this book that you looking through about John Merrick and looked over her shoulder louis and photographs? I can look at Jesus Christ. She was riveted air, and her, then she wanted by the book situation whereby then she said yes, definite, and so we bought the book and she read it covered a cover. I never figured out what that was about and then after she was killed.
I went to see the isle of man in new york with, but with boeing has now and then a certain started to make sense. What? What with the thing as dorothy, namely walking down the street near and everybody would stop and look at her dog stop the unloading and exaggerating they don't ask, from that date. The shoe stunning and she'd also done the playboys to ear, but it wasn't the people who, just because she was stunned and tall in just a knockout movies, never captured how she really looked. She was better looking and I said, everybody's looking at you d r, what is going on here. She said no they're. Looking at you, they're, not looking at me. The only reason they're looking at me is to see who you're with and she I said. What does it bother you she says yeah. I said why. Well I dunno I feel weird. It's like I've got ice cream on my shirt or something I thought didn't matter why they were looking and they were just looking at her freakish freakish to her
and so I realise that if an outsider, whether you're, beautiful or ugly, whatever sets you apart from everybody else, still makes you feel like an outsider, and so I so I understood mask, and I said: ok I'll, do that for dorothy- and we made it's good movie it was a good movie. It was a better movie when I finished with it than what they released. I had a big fight with them. I sued universal over what never was more hated in hollywood. Rarely yeah, because what happened was you'll appreciate. This bruce Springsteen had never let anybody use any of his music animal, but I know a little bit and he liked and rock the boy in mass, the real kid he had loved. Italy and rude whisperings rise. I said: can we
some of your music in the picture. This was at the time when One of the usa was the most popular album in history and I got to use anything I wanted of bruce's in the movie accept born to run, and I had promised- and bad larrea thunder rodya and they were on the picture. I went to Europe and they took him out of the picture and replace him with bob seger because they said they couldn't make a deal. They could make a deal, but they didn't want to make a deal. It's a long story There was a guy at Universal who had it in for me anyway, yeah yeah. He didn't want the picture to be a hit where's that guy now he's he's not in pictures anymore, but he's still alive. Unfortunately,
anyway, the evidence for for you what the two reasons here, one he didn't green light, the picture he came into the studio after it was already greenland's wasn't his, It's right so he's like fuck that let's take that off the docket yeah and what he wanted was the picture he brought to the studio called out of africa to be considered the great film which it won't won best picture. Was it wasn't that good, a picture So he diminished my picture as much as he could and I was pissed off and I see the studio which was about his dumber thing. Is you can do as a director? You don't do the studio, but I I the studio to you over Springsteen over Springsteen and the cutting of a three through a two big sequences. when, in the picture that I thought should have been anyway, it was a disaster and I didn't win coursing through
twenty years later, I I got Springsteen to let I I said to bruce can't we get your music in the picture. Somehow he said Peter look if it if it has to be for nothing but for nothing. So there was a new guy at universal ron Meyer, and I said I can get Springsteen in the movie for nothing. He said write me a letter and we got it in the picture and I recut the picture put in the two sequence, there were missing and they they call it. The directive, cotonou. It's my movies movie I made which wasn't released but is available now so that's out there. People should know it's there and it's there directed. You feel better about it. Yeah, because it's the picture, I made a very good picture, proud of it yeah. I wasn't proud of them. fucked up version right, but it was a very and it was very awkward moment. Market. Even imagine, you'll be safe. I love this picture mask I'm saying, but it's not my picked out. The major I mean look at this egotistical bastards you've got a better picture this. This is great. Nobody
what I made was pretty damn good right. This is not as good that they're fucking, thereby in the ass, oh yeah. Of course everything is, but you I fear I am here. These are and work. I'm still work what compelled you I know you do to the movies, obviously and in in and some television. What compels you to the Tom petty documentary, because people love that thing, the I loved it too. I love doing it yeah, Well, what happened was this again in georgia, coolies, whose record producers an friend of mine, whom I got friendly with through wes anderson, who became friendly with me to view of his movies yeah. I, like his movies, a lot you like now his movies. He ever imagine you. I point is my friends of mine here. There are vizier guys, the young guy here, the young guy who alchemy pop who earth and I call them my son. Ah there other ones now those are the two women doesn't call me
right, but those three you like your movie, I like we do. We started by talking about movies and independent movies and in new, like those yeah. I do anybody else. Oh these people around here I don't know. I'm like David o Russell yeah, makes her movies like him personally, to hear good, so tat at your service, was due to coolies calling any says with Tom: petty is once you do, a documentary about the thirty years anniversary, which is coming up of the heartbreak, whose must not like the great american band yeah exactly like to know if you'd like to direct it. Really Tom looked that he was when I said why me and joy said I mention he city, wonder
major director and I mentioned you and he said: can we get him and I'm asking you if you do it so I said yeah, I'm interested. Let me think about hung up the phone and call Louise stratton, my my ex weiner at the time she's already been asked by a caller. I said: tommy, the top part of Tom petty's you folks in your office. She says: no he's not a folk singer, he's one of the premier rock and roll artists in the country great when the best and I oh really well, did george call me in them and now she's a do it do it. Do it do it. So I went away Why you sat down with tom for four hours. I said tell me the story of the high pray. Tell me the whole thing and I say: ok I'll, do it and high and dry them. Have you tell him, and it took us two years and you know you're gonna, wanna grammy, you not exciting about that. To me is that you coming into that had a certain listen to those first, five or six records for the first time, those
free rein to all, and they were grain, he's great these and you know he's definitely appreciated. I love him he's good at it. Yeah he's not appreciated enough, and I think that's true, because you talk about seem a fuckin patties right up there, man, oh yeah, he is, he is unique he's very unusual and his songs music, as unusual he's varies very smart guy, I loved him and night. You acted because I can the sopranos. I was surprised to see because I only knew you is this. Does the intelligent film maker- and I mean I'm watching the surprise of my colleague- dispute about energy, no effect an active. But now I know you acted alot originally now mary. But do you carry anything over from your experience with stella adler into when you do that sure always her patchy like what was right? I basically the still I learned the technique of acting. I've had enough
it is an act and I had a town as an actor, but but when you, when you, when you don't when you, when you're, not inspired you'll, have a technique to claw back one are and that's what I learned and what was of technique of acting of acting in this complicated. I know it and one can ever explain it to me. No, because someone's going to learn how to imagine things you start out by pretending to on through a jar, something really see it, those who, as a beginning, renewed work up to seeing classes and so of work forth. but the sopranos with great fun and miss it there's some day too. I miss it to just working yeah. It was great to do. I directed one episode which one, it was in the fifth season. It was the one where I m that prove to teach as a thing with with camilla
oh yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and then he kind of blows her off right and the same episode where Steve Buscemi beat the shit out of that korean guy. Who was trying to help him ray? That was an episode wow there's a good episode, great fucking shot. It was a great show and you know how I got ah well in nineteen. Ninety three air, I get a call out of the blue from a guy named David chase yeah and he says genius a genius and he says he was. He was at that time. Supervising us a show called northern exposure, and he said: look kurds is orson welles who had died about seven years before and but my book of interviews orson had come out the year before
and he said: look we're going to do an episode about orson, Welles animal tribute to us and wells, and we like to know. If you come up here to seattle and play yourself and talk about voicing, we will write a scene or write us. A script minds playing yourself. Northern exposure noise- and I said sure, I'd be like to do that, so they wrote a script that was very good. I went up to did it took me a week. That was it. Seven years later, I got a call from David chase again, as as I'm doing a second season of a series called the sopranos. I said yeah I heard about. I haven't seen it, but I hear it's great. He said well, he said the therapy the psychiatrist in the in the show played by lorraine brok always having such difficulty with her client, her patient tony soprano that she needs to go to a shrink would you be interested in playing the shrink that she goes to? I said yeah welcomed me with
right so I met with the riders we talk for about an hour and I went home and they commies. You got the part and I have tried to say when we second day of shooting northern exposure. David caused me up pieces. Have you acted before gear I said he. I started as an actor us fifteen cases will, as it were, My I terrible. No, no you good! Is you got a lot of presence? You should act more He calls me seven years later and gives me a great part as great so great part, I love doing and everybody suddenly said, always an actor right, a fuse peer by. out of its yeah yeah lot of parts after so those guys that you you'll get a sort of associated with in the seventies. guys you are necessary. Friends with. Network, you were out sort of shopping at at the and and how, at the same time, in making great movies like eel freakin, calculus, corsage, spielberg, Lucas ashby deep.
do. Do you like your movies. I met a big question with a lot of guys we're out of any of them. Do due respect their work, somalia, but you I freakin Oh right connection, a fridge nation one over the last picture. Rest pictures and he one best director and did the oscars. He came over to me at the ball and he had the austrian his hand and he said Peter when a hundred of these- and he put his arms around me- hit me in the head with the ice like that. Occasionally findings it'll me again
but as if some craig do you, I couplers worked our legal, I'm good pictures, tints growth, asia. They want and gay disturbed. I tend to like the older films mine. I go back to those than I do too, but you know freed freakin and copeland. I had accompanied together for about thirty seconds. Oh yeah called the direct his company and I put paper moon into that deal as it could. I found a general fairmount through pam jump start to come. It was. It was parliament's idea to have the company, it happened at all and we did it because we were promised that we would go public right, make a lot of money never happen, but, well. At least you got along with those two I get along with them: yeah yeah, but, like you go back to the searchers, you know and watch at some time I find that like they're out of a lot of the movies- and I don't come to it in the same way you do but like that movie I'd go back to our oh, it's a great film
Rio. Bravo, I go back, we do there and which ones You got it, chimes at midnight and I like touch of evil. I, like all his pictures, but I remember I said when I first met him. I said you know, there's only one picture of yours. I don't really like which one yeah the trial. I don't either, and I thought well we're really close it. months later. I made some kind of disparaging remark about the twice and we should stop saying that. I said I thought you didn't like it no, and I just said that to please you. I have great respect for your opinion, but when you, when you denigrate that you diminish my small treasure, ah no shadows, sorry, I thought I'd reconsider and from then on. He always referred the trotters that picture you ate Hated, would hate it so funny that he
as he got older. He was just strangely needy man. While he was like he, he really, it seems like he sounds like he really needed a friend. Well, we we we, we were there, but we we. I was there for him for for awhile, that's great so. The new picture IL has been awhile huh since you well. I had people say to me: you haven't made a pizzeria made a picture for what have you doing. I said we've been working. I have a very had had a very long year. Twelve, years I did six years of the sopranos published two six hundred page book on actors called the housing. Did to specials for television one about Natalie. Would one about PETE rose directed a fire for our documentary on Tom, petty, which won a grammy, and I hope to document, John John, for that I read did and was booting so I've I've been.
busy, I did it wasn't like I was trying to make picture. No six would like it to write and direct and cast and do like to really get in a chair. Again. It's been a while we're here. Well man to another it'll scream radically and how was the experience was great yeah yeah you liked the movie yeah. I think it's a funny picture. What is a pitcher to me? It's a screwball comedy, okay back. This group welcome. We basically here it's a little darker than what's up quite a bit, because it's about The basic idea was what would and if a guy gave an escort whom he added Night, with ya gave her a lot of money to stopping being an escort yeah, which I've done. Work. I did that in singapore, when making a picture about pimps and hookers You got involved with one and you decide involved with a couple and they were cast in the picture.
And I sat and they wanted to go home. They were had terrible back story. What had happened to them? A guide girl, and fooled by a guy and quran street and so on and so forth and I said, look at, give you some extra money. They worked on the picture. I said well I'll, give you some extra money. If you promise you'll quit this racket and go home, they both did mary limb. She went back to my malaysia and the other girl, whose name I have difficulty remembering now. I went back to bank they did this data, the racket. Yeah, that's a good story. That informed. I was that we were the idea behind this picture. and Owen Wilson plays a stiff fewer directive. New york feared broadway. Aha, That's interesting! They have no knowledge of that. Right. Well, no, I don't know how you view does something, as you can see, the surrogate yeah And
he's married unease about direct to play on broadway with his wife near whose star and so on and the night before they arrive. He gets to new york first and he has an escort and he gives her thirty thousand dollars if she promises to stop being an escort, she's young played by image inputs. bring it act great and then you his auditions with his play that he is doing as she comes into audition, not knowing that he's the director, because he gave a fake name yeah and that's the beginning of all hell breaks loose while in this eliza be cast well, we got the six principles. Where our own work? the eyes the directors I've has played by catherine hon, oh she's, great she's, just great love, her ready and the escort is played by imaging, puts his brilliant luton And the movie star hook isn't play a play by receive funds,
You know I dunno his welsh air is brilliant. Aware think I do know him. I've seen him yeah you've seen them here and then the the therapist, the therapist of the escort here, is played by jennifer anniston. Oh great and it's a it's a pisar, because jennifer has never played anything like this. Ah she plays that. Yes, she plays with the therapist from Hell. Then she wanted to play it. I asked her to play the wife she's. No one and the third, oh, that's great, and she did a great job and will four days in to his great good cast. He. I love that guy he's a great guy. He really is. He plays the playwright, That's great! I will that's exciting man me as it is it's fun and in our expectations, will you never know if you're excited I've. Let me put it this way. I said: are the first screening of the picture ever in fact the first time I saw it all the way through put together, was in venice at the film festival last year and this year we asked you
and it was we had ten minutes. Standing ovation are tremendously just loved it happy here, then we showed palm springs festival they loved it. Every audience we ve seen it will lapse. Banks must be Fuck fucking exciting, for you, nice really means for its funding He play a pretty cool character here in the you know as a person, but I got to assume that that re entering that particular world of writing and directing and and having that that experience with these great young actors and then having that response must have a fucking from yes, it's been great and near your relationship with your kids is good year, Oh yeah, my daughter, my elder daughter, just last year, directed her first movie really want, did put work quite well. the other one in show business too, if she's in brooklyn with two kids and that's plenty ah, but she shibh she's gonna. Do some writing. I know when she, when her kids get a little older one is ten and one is four and two
pretty much all the time and where you live in a good girl. I'm living and allay. Ok, I'm staying a friend of mine right now I have an apartment in new york, but it's sublet, so I can't use it okay right now, but I sang with a friend of mine will greatly. I tell you. Peter has been great fucking. Well, it's been great. I knew mark you're, a good talker, you a good interview. Thank you very much. I I really it was an honor and I'm glad I'm glad we covered so much ground. We cover a lot of ground. We did great and I appreciate it thank you mark I enjoy talking to MR bardon image. I get the feeling that it is not always the easiest guy to work with. Did you get the feeling that there is a lot of wisdom there and a lot of them exciting history, and I am glad I got to talk to him. Go to deputy ipod dot com and deputy all needs just copy that copycat co op. get on the mailing was checked. My schedule for gigs get hooked up
knew. How do the thing man do that thing? I'm gonna play some guitar, some guy actually doesn't like it at all, but he liked the other day because there was a story behind it. But my friend day, homeland as I think
Transcript generated on 2022-09-13.