« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 738 - Laura Albert & Jeff Feuerzeig

2016-09-01 | 🔗
Whether you know the story of JT LeRoy or not, you certainly haven't heard an episode of WTF like this. First, Marc talks with filmmaker Jeff Feuerzeig about documenting the rise and fall of literary phenom JT LeRoy, a celebrated young man who was later revealed to be the creation of Laura Albert. Then Laura joins Marc in the garage to explain what gave birth to her infamous alter ego and to provide some insight into her life.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the flood bodies, what the fuck's yours, what the fuck ass, nader's that thou some vows one, someone semi and just drop into my head how's it going. This is doubly t F mare- and this is my podcast- welcome to it afresh, I info on the show. I wouldn't forward. If you, you know, there's a lot of things go out with me there changes that something need to know trying to hold you here, but you should probably you should probably hang out today on the show very compelling a couple of guys We have a jeff fares, egg and laura Albert now you We don't know those two. Maybe you do maybe do Jeff Jeff, meda doc a while back how the devil and Daniel Johnston that was,
ray documentary about very interesting while the man who made some fairly amazing music and and he's done another doc on the J t awry phenomena and I dont know if you know about that. But I'll explain to you more in a minute He'll Roy had add road, three Two of them were huge, best sellers and it was a astounding literary phenomenon The only problem was that J t I did not exist now. Pseudonym is not unusual in writing books by death, but it this pseudonym sort of manifested into a complete. I don't even know what you would call it a woman. Or albert who wrote these books as J t leroy, then manifested J t roy by casting her with her sister in law and then she became someone else and they move through the literary world through the wood. of celebrity through the worthy fashion internationally
this sum? Can How do I know you want to call it a charade? Was it a performance, our peace, is there a hoax or was it you artists, sort of movement through what ultimately was her work and and her destiny to become a more complete person and complete artist, a it's it's it's it's insane, but is beautiful and they're both here I talked to Jeff first and then he leaves- and I talk the laura, who is: way to a or who J T Roy lives within it was pretty, may very emotional, a conversation with the with laura today, its powerful brace yourself so now Big news is: there's a lot of news. I got a deal with first sad news. Gee wilder is dead three I believe and real one of the most just what beautiful man what an amazing performer,
the great actor and seriously one of the funniest people to ever bless the planet. On film or in person or, however, you encountered Jean wilder what it, what a great great talent and injustice, its etc. He did live a long life and he was ill at the end but tat, but man, man, The producers young frankenstein, the richer prior films, silver streak in blazing saddles. He had this been martin Bonnie and clyde that was beautiful ino. I e just just great what a fucking funny guy, what a beautiful thing- in being what an amazing talent, man. It really was sad, and I assume you may remember that all- this very bizarre, but very true story- that right aids to jean wilder, I talked to MEL brooks about gene wilder. A bid now was pretty amazing by this.
Happened to me when I was younger and I was on drugs and I was hanging out with sam kennison late night at the comedy store or in the house behind the comedy store we would go and added talk in the talk. in the shit down. I out of our minds- and I was in sam's face and I said how you do it: man how'd you figured out: how do you figure out How do you figure out you? you're, no, your style yom annoying when I'm like that and say looked at me and he goes Jean wilder. Jeanne wilder. That's all he gave me. It actually took me years to really put together that if you listen sam's build- In the way he moves you amid a routine which had ever been bad the benefit. that yeah that yeah they got gaga to do that anyway. I'd rather die than gene wilder and then SAM just adds. Oh Ah, ah great, it was to build the
pace the amazing wilder dr shaft just punching fruit. Has it in every movie at least once ages elevates amplifies keeps building and building to hysteria- oh my god, In peace, jean wilder, you are one of the best. So my news, I have to change some tour dates because I was cast in a network series called glow. Gore. Just ladys of wrestling I am the male led opposite the law. We and amazing allison bree? This executive produced by Genji Cohen. And I Tell you man, I you know. I came so came out of nowhere and it's it's gonna be really a blast, so I'm thrilled Obiang with it. It was really
The thing I wanted to do next with my life is the thing I wanted to really try to do is act. I wanted to try to act in a fun show where I didn't have to write it at enough to produce it. I didn't have to play I and and this happen. This amazing opportunity to be in this network. always glow with alison break. So how did it then do you want to know I'll- tell you my agent- corinne and I sent me these side. She said this is out there. I don't love, you ll, be interested, they weren't. Looking for me I was not called in I'm- not a big shot. I read the script and I read the the scenes- and I'm like I can do this guy, this guy buddy I can relate to, and I can I can do this guy, so The deal was you're not really reading people and allay out an award at what point in the casting power Sissy right, but does she said, could put myself on tape with that's old style talking.
good record myself on my phone doing the scene and so saw MIKE okay, so I went out this takes place in the eighties. It's based on the actual, go his ladys of wrestling. and- and I I put on a low cost shirt and I went down to society a spectacle and had dead. The gals down their loan me some frames at were aviator style. They looked eightys to me mid eighties, and I just I decided he needed those kind of frames and I went and I had the woman who's been Trainer who has been I've been working out with the carnero and and he's an actress. So I we read, this would mean that my my our time is system, frank, capello, your whole life and we went over to my office and we shot like three takes of this scene. I said after the agent terrain Andy
How I got it I mean they knew I was, but then I can. I just because I know I am- I got a taped audition, don't hear that too often so, exciting right right now moving into our guests today, fairly complicated, but but it is by nature comp. did the documentary the which is called author, that J t Le Roy story opens in theatres on Friday september? Ninth and the basics. Are I don't know how old you guys are where you were when this happened, but this all went in the early two thousands the books, sarah and the hardest hit deceitful, above all things and the publishing industry in the literary community went wild for joy, Taylor Roy, who is this teenage hussar drug addicted hustler who had no parents whose mother was a a truck, stop hooker and just these books are beautiful. They definitely stand the test of time.
But the question the real question becomes: do they stand the test of The insanity that went on around it now these books were real. And they are real and their beautiful books, their real fucking masterpieces of literature. These two books and the bottom line was is ajay taylor I was a real voice, a real person, but that person lived within Laura albert. It's very complicated, worried, but she created this call it an altar ego. They was a pseudonym. It was a person that spoke through her, eighteen roy, but now when the books come popular the world wishing world and the world of books and people who want to deep sea to you right and hear him read it out and they they they demanded it in a way and instead of just saying you know it's a pseudonym, not really a purse,
cause she's already establishes person with so many people on the phone. She needed laura needed to sort of make this right. So we're albert sort of enlists, her sister in law, to play j t le Roy and laura. Becomes this other character? Who, j t le rise manager, swash handler, and then lorries It's been becomes another character and moves like that for years. Tour the world? With this, this woman playing this teenage boy, JT leroy the books deal with sexuality deal with them. A lot of stuff around gender? They hadn't been dealt with at the time, but it also just turned the. There are community in the world on just on its head. They this this celebrated genius, writer, made these amazing books, and then it just turns out. through a series of revealing articles, injustice crashing this wave,
that it was revealed to be not real, anything going on a while. So this Is this story and jack fares egg? Who, who did dad did that is with me now and will lay laid out a bit and then I'll come back for a second in between Jeff and laura, who I spoke to alone after Jeff, I your last movie at some point- was a devil in dead and dying of Johnson Johnston. That was a disturbing moving in a good way. I appreciate that, it is not a plug or anything, but it is a simple fact. Ten years ago I made that film and now we're going to have a sony pictures, classics blu ray coming out next month. Oh congratulations! So what compelled you towards this? Obviously
the J t or roy story. I remembered happening, but I was not vat engaged in the literary world, nor that I give a shit. Oddly, though, at some point I read stephen beaches. First novel, the guy who actually wrote the first new york times, peace that started to expose the performance we're hoax or, however, you want to frame it. But I didn't know anything about this story, and I- and I knew it was compelling- and all I remember about it when it happened- was like this woman Man was not a woman man in this book were they were I remember that the argument was that she pulled out this massive hopes on the literary world, but what really be for me and I think, for you and improbably for people in the film itself. The real conflict is high. This diminish the work. Ultimately, we are leaving it doesn't yeah, that's the question one Yes, you may erase as many questions right what compelled you, how how you get into it while I was I was
there with you. I didn't know anything about what a joy de the raven was yet nor had I even heard of the scandal in two thousand and six when the new york times broke, the scant you're? Really, you know really not either. wasn't on your re. Nor had read the bucks right was not oh, my radar right. My whole trip is nonfiction and new journalism nea and I'm always looking for a great story. Right, there's nothing! I love more than a great truth, a stranger than fiction story, a buddy of mine, journals, paul He turned me onto a few years after the story broke pecan. If you like. I know that guy writers, vienna, ellie, weekly cover stories. I like that anyway paul term yoni knows my taste in the hook at the time, for me, was quote unquote the greatest literary hoax of all time. like that guy sounds interesting. How many are their jersey, Kosinski? Where there's a couple
more than a few right buying, but with by its like a question of memoir right, some of it I mean this was bigger because it involves that if people- but I usually a literary house comes down to is real or not real. If it can, if this is being presented as real as real or and not rely on the page. Well, listen, this was. called a literary hoax maritime and it was fiction at went way off the page right. We ve never seen a suitor and a pen name like this in history right because, of course, charity le Roy there was an avatar. There was a body out there. That was not the person so that was unique. Now what happened was I I read I mean got it generate a massive amount of anc and think pieces yeah. I read it all, and I just had this feeling. I said you know there has to be more to the story than we're being told, which was what have you read everything. What was the basic, storing your mind, got all the research I was available on J t, the Roy well
it was unknown, but there was one voice glaringly missing, and that was the voice of the author, laura albert the author of the fiction on off the page, because she pulled out. She had held her story back and therefore her her telling was invisible, didn't exist and I want you hear that voice, so I reached out to her a centre- devil Dale Johnston, you know, and for listeners you perhaps have not seen it it. The the central theme is the intersection of madness and creativity, which is a subject. I find infinitely fascinating yeah anyway. She watched the film and spoke to her, and then she decided that she would share her story with me and that's how we began to go down this road now for people they don't know, which I imagine is most people. Let's get a timeline in place. Jake you were, I write a book and its hugely popular
It's got defenders in the literary community she is reached out. He has J t or roy this young son of a prostitute of a truck, stop prostitute, who s? Who is hiv positive has a drug problems. Gender problems was abused. This is a shattered parson and is written this beautiful at any. It is still a beautiful book very poetic and painful and and the like thing. Anyone is ever seen at that time right well, it's basically what went down it was a a book published was called Sarah yup. He was a novel. Ah, it was definitely of the southern gothic flannery O'Connor harry crews, tradition, ah
widely reviewed and became an international best seller as well as the second book, the collection of short stories. The heart is deceitful, above all, thanks which, as I came to her, was written previous too. The short story is ninety. Ninety nine yeah that both books come out their bout a year poor back to back here right now. what what you reveal in them in the film through laura's eyes and also through the eyes of the people that were her champions, was that this was a character or or a part of her or Somebody speaking through her, however, you want to see it or mental illness whatever he wanted to frame it as, depending on your particular, a mystical or psychological discipline. This character evolved out of a relationship with a phone, a teen counselor. Really, yes, sir. She is
came to learn or I came to learn, the film was addicted, calling telephone hotlines and helpless and she, as it turned out, have been calling hotlines help lines. Since she was a young girl. I found her old nope absorbed when she's a child or albert and their pages and pages of telephone hotline? She would colony hotline, she can get our hands on in the margins of those hotlines, hundreds and hundreds of little boy girl, doodles. Yet I ultimately animated ass. She desperately, though there that was all her are yeah. Oh interesting so this woman that you establish at the beginning of the film as as having a difficult childhood laura that is, being overweight, having absent father, an abusive mother, a little sister jewish brooklyn. But does they're not mentally well, and
aggressively more unstable as a child yeah, as you see in the film she's institutionalized multiple times just effect, and she ends up in a group home for girls where she became a ward of the state and sixteen year, which is odd. That mean that, in a sense that that is really a flagrant disregard of parenting responsibilities at that age, her parents gave up custody put her in this group home, she needed a lotta help and she was still on those hotlines calling as boys. All those years see, I got boxes and box of her phone bill. She would dominate. The phones, end quote her it was her her life in fiction. She never knew where the story was gonna go. She never knew who she who was going to pick up the other end of that phone. She enough history was going to last a day
bureau or a week with a particular operator corrected and with a particular character yeah. So, by the time she calls as terminator Jeremiah terminator leroy yeah in san francisco enter a twenty something years later. She calls a hotline, DR terrance owens, guy picks up that could have been. The seventeenth thousandth call she's ever made it a boy at this point in time right. But this is like this like some interesting thing, interesting since you brought it up it up and obviously, in your mind, you don't see that there's a possible spoiler to this movie now I mean there isn't tourism and we can talk about anything you want? Is it still a fun ride, What now, but yet I mean you made a decision that stood out to me, as as mildly dubious, ok go for it. Which is you know, you decide to reveal the the depth and the nature of the sexual rv abuse, oh at as like a capper almost at the end of the movie,
you must have thought about that. Oh absolutely, first of all, its beyond foreshadowed, for a sec. No, no! I I dunno, I'm not defending I'm going to tell you what I did yeah yeah. So it's foreshadowed. If you can't figure out that that was going on you're, not paying attention right regardless, that's the inciting incident and it's the literary hold back. The film is called author, yann that is where that scene lives and where I wanted to live and where it really resonated, because what I was doing was playing with her her backstory like memento and that it goes in reverse and catches up with itself with the ace story, the saga of j t Louise with all of the deceit and lies at baked into it, and then it comes together at the end, and hopefully we arrive at a whole person. Ok, all right, so that was the intent. Yes, you. I feel that, because you go through waves with laura through the film beyond our and talked to her in a minute you go
waves with her through the film about how you feel about what she did not as an artist myself, and I barely call myself that, but as somebody who respects that that you know what I did might anything that happened whether I want to look at it, is she really she really back in You did a number on the literati community anna celebrity community and of the affected nature of parasitical businesses that revolve around artistic town that that really turn them on their nose by yet. But then you go deeper an inch in its or like, will she deceive these people and any star think always in a genius at these people want to see what they were. They want to see because her british accent was not great. and yet there was enough. Of around the powerful its isn't around everything. I said that if body- was sort of half way going. What the fuck is this, they would have been able this smell. Something there were many tells tells
by lighted, to bring the audience whose listening up to speed once these books became the celebre sure of the literary community and then moved into the artistic commute the the world of the intelligentsia and at certain type of celebrity is just in love. It was a psych ice moment right in publishing history. We don't see it often. It was first of all was transgressive fiction pretty hard core material right. Why, while she loves dead dennis cooper, yahoo is right. you know you read his stuff. I haven't read it in years, but when I did read it, I was like I'm going to have to give this arrest for about a decade. I felt way and he's a great writer. His great try a know. Wow I mean talk about pushing things. Yeah. So it's that tradition and yet with there was like a rat star, like phenomena these book readings. Like you, don't listening a friend, you write books, go worrying way? Only fifteen peeping out there for people now the gatt right. This is as his lines around the block in multiple cities for likes.
having years around the world. I saw this as other footage nea, and this is not JK rowling. So you know something and where fashion hollywood, the literary community in all converged around this writing in this persona right and who can predict. Why well but the bat- The fascinating thing about the movie that makes it so compelling. Is that laura albert, who is an insecure slightly emotionally shattered person, has run they put this issue on the world at the time that it becomes a great success. She's she's, overweight, she's had a baby with the our player she's living with doesn't seem like ok relationship seems like bay area kind of like we're. Just hang out doing weird shit relationship, and now she's got this sour and she and it's a pseudonym and she can't go out. She can yeah. They want to have readings, she's has
in character because of her own emotional problems, and she has the celebrities. Do these readings. Are they publish your has managed the publisher and she okays them as J t worry. That sounds like a good event, but there's unseen in san francisco, where she has one these readings for first reading. I think you're talkin about and she's there yet making. I mean the dispersal this finding this foot: where you have the author, who, at this point in time, is morbidly obese and its iron house to compare it to accept for attending your own funeral like that Fantasy. Perhaps many of us right tat as local san francisco writers and reading the sections of the book and she sitting there in the bookstore Anonymous sitting there smiling prevailing? Loving the audacious that she had no idea that she wrote a book any we listen, we create, aren't right, throw it out into the world right. It's
pretty rare to have these kind of accolade showered upon you and I think in that way, she's very human has noticed she the validation for her work, but she certainly was not able to be that person herself and there she is in the audience watching her own reading, but no one, no she's there in theirs footage of that. It's pretty mind, boggling its bio going and also the element of like this, isn't just a pseudonym yo, even for the publishing of the book. She has talked to a two dennis cooper she's talk to that. What the other Henderson bruce benders and others, and she has a relationship with this therapists who doesn't know about. So they have all talk to J t Le Roy The other is the young boy right. The young boy who laura Albert is manifesting, who she's literally calling behind the door in her bathroom
her boyfriend for a long time doesn't even know she's making. These calls cause she's ashamed of these. This addiction of calling therapists help absolutely so now. She's created this care. Or who has a relationship with major literary figures, and they'd champion. Her european him in Hampshire, this writing that they receive the effects they had a fax machine. here, the fax machine and how she sent this material to people that she was looking for mentorship. Did you find that, if the therapists that she had built a relationship with that must be the longest relationships yet with a therapist on the phone encouraged heard a right you. Do you think that this would have happened? Well will never know. I didn't ask her. We can ask her All I know is the simple fact that she had been calling the sky, doktor terrorism or, I should say he
I've been calling her you can get. You were unable to get an interview with him post, absolutely not and he's never spoken to anybody publicly, but I do know what tat is that because of patient confidentiality or because he else. I've heard people fear is that at least I know the legal fact of that. I just know that he's never spoken to anybody, and that is how it is. I do know that he had spoken to J t for an hour a day for three years before he suggests that you should write summons down form of therapy and then all the sudden laura had an audience and then balloons, faxed it to him and he passed it along to a friend and next you know it's getting past around is holy shit. This is great riding and then all of a sudden, terminator gut published. It was never the cheese on all this many times yet. But I've came to learn from our research. She never like, say
hey, do you know an editor? Do you know a book agent? Can you get me published? There was none of that going viral phenomenon. It was in an organic journey, filled with a massive amount of deceit, and it's like with it's like go with the billy childish song. You know I live a devious means where there were unknown reasons of why this all transpired, and now I believe in the film- is uncover those reasons There there's a moment in the film where. she knows what she's done there's a moment where she is reluctant to have term in published as memoir, because she knew that it was not correct so because it wasn't memoir, simple thy, but but that some hours, the rules right
action has no rules right. That's right! Absolutely! She was and follow in a book that our body jerry stall is a cruel close to the bone right terminator got in that particular anthology, the big reviews and that's what exploded the whole situation. Then she got a book deal and she walked away from because they wanted memoir right. She didn't even write again for years and then she baby and all the sudden. To quote her. You know the doors of perception or whatever she says opened and the next thing you know she, she wrote a novel, shack, speed, wrote it sent it off to the publisher and the the publisher says you wrote a novel. She knew right. Oh, she wrote a not right next thing. You know it got published as fiction now bizarre and that's the first book. That's the first book that was that came out his J t, the Roy correct fiction. So basically J t lorry existed as just a voice on the phone for many many
year yeah when the book smashed there was there was a problem here. What do I do yeah? So she, as you see in the film stares at her androgynous sister in law, savannah, canoe, yeah and It's interesting who why don't I put a wig, a hat and sunglasses on you and you'll be the body the app she was working at it as a waitress at it as it in a thai restaurant at the right time, and she gives her fifty bucks as a one off and they go off and they film german tv and that seemed to have worked out, and that was like frankenstein come to wife, right and then this went on, for I think, seven years where, where Laura Albert, creates a character for herself the british character, a british characteristic, speedy young manages J t? Yes, the very pushy handler yeah yes answered, Speedy is always air. Speedy is absent.
lee there and you know blocking or running interference for all of the journalists in celebs at yeah laws wanna get close to J to protecting. What's her sister Anne was named sven savannah from fucking up that too, with sharing information, because, regardless of savannas out in public by day laura is still the voice of J t on the phone by night right and they have to download as you here in the film to make sure they get their stories straight right as it gets very complicate rice, spinning plates. You know, like some sort of magician, that we ve never quite expire just before right so stupid. The two of them are out in the world. They're, meeting, bono and and and laura does an interesting sort of her. Her mystical understanding of show business and Portal and in an levels yes, Mano summoned her yeah summoned her in this was this was the portal that J t was going through the portal that that Vano was
ordaining or or org even worse than the magic code share to rise to the next level, yet to concerted somewhere in the arena, and san friend vano invites J t ride surprise waiting. A backstage passes are given to speedy and J t write law. Is the one snapping all those incredible photos by the way, a bonnet and j ten and the edge, and only about the edge? Sorry, rwanda we got the buy, it was funny. that the big advice was watch out for the assholes. Basically yeah I was you know that great problem above all, show visit. You never forget where you came from ripe, what was like. I was what was more compelling. Ultimately was you is road manager speaking to speedy as J t romantic saying to see what my boy did for yours and mentioning rolling stone, mountain J, t alright, well, yet I was surprised at that bono had flipped for the book. The heart is deceitful, above all things
on wanted to say: hey, I'm shouting to the world. I love this writer and then I was the big surprise during what they call the no talk so now throughout all this laura albert, as speedy is short of feeling her out as our new you know, take better care of herself, maybe whenever she did, she got dead the gastro intestinal surgery she's losing weight. I shall of other surgery, she's she's, doing stuff yeah she's gettin he started. Like hey, I'm a thing now and she starts to come out as speedy, but it was lord. You know she had created a self mass, a kiss, sir, no like relationship by savannah and wanting to be near the accolades for her art, but yet still now in, like literally pushed to the side. People did not like speedy right, but she knew that she wanted people not to like Spain right speed is blocking right, but at the same
time everyone wants to hug, you know basically the actor right and she once said hug desperately right. You just I d metamorphosis. Yes, it's very shakespearean what she does to yourself, you starting off with so much obesity and self hatred, and biogas goes through the surgery ultimate it becomes. You know what she really wanted to be, which is the opposite of beautiful. It's very much like that shag, song philosophy of the world yeah, which I've always thought was so simple. Yet brilliant! It's like it's! It's freudian! It's always the opposite. It's like murray The fat girls want to be thin boys, we ride, motorcycles, want to drive cars yeah and that's exactly what happened to laura albert in this journey and she does become more self confident and more beautiful and she's into our own she's, going into her own and simultaneously within a year or two there's a fashion. In the flurry j t to gus vans, anti champions. You re early on, is
collaborating with him on elephant, which The other is a scene, an elephant that remains credited to j t Le Roy. Though the movie was improvised. He she is, he is still on their is consulting producer associations. There's at all, this stuff is happening. All this in the movie the ark the sort of denmark is, is all building up. That judge she needs to get straight. She needs to tell the truth and she decides to do that with Billy corrigan, which seems because Billy corrigan it like her and her husband love this matching pumpkin. She believes that bill he's a portal of some kinder gifted p being who understands her, and she tell everything billy yeah. She had this tingle, because billy had written openly about abuse right, so she felt the diverse kindred spirits in iraq
why? Yes, that not only would understand why this happened. Yes and no She when she met him in a porsche to speedy met him at space right here, allay as juan show she opened up and she, but it was the first person you Now, however, small community of close confidence that she confided in yeah, I like to ask her, if that, if it was, was it bending her conscience, did she like outside of knowing that it was way out of control and that it was bound to fall down yet did she feel bad from his way, people well you're, going to have to ask her that and that's a question to ask her at you didn't ask her: did you I don't remember specifically, did you feel bad? I think she apps
absolutely and, as you seen the third act of the film there was a legitimate mosaic of responses to all that had transpired. Some people, you know, wanted to burn her at the stake. That was very, very real. Other people, as you here you know, thought it was the greatest thing since sliced. These and other photos even better, and then there were people who were very neutral and accepting liked presence in august fans it. So I that remains. I thought you'd have to ask him. I have no idea mosque her and I can assure him yeah you can you can talk to her? Did I get doctor in a minute? Why mean ultimately, once issued hit the fan with this even bt article, and then she gets fined for one male fraud or for forging a signature signing account, act that we who repercussions are guilty of fraud in a court of law for signing the names, eighteen o roy up, obviously percinet does not exist and yet on a contract, a movie option contract for the book, Sarah, but the writers.
that's her off the hook in the sense that it is too soon they wrote rode dynamic. Is brief, right bending over the fine. No doubt at all. That was just a way for the authors, gill, who felt that debt trap oh, and that verdict was unfair. They wanted to jennifer all writers to use a pseudonym for any reason they choose super a political sexual, whatever they want your thing. That seems, like all other movie. Well, it was just an interesting fact dug the fact it is that you did the broader discussion that has to be had around this. Is that you have. whatever reason, if, indeed laura albert was really seeking to to collect the pieces of herself. you're whether she knew that during it or not, that you have the ultimate goal was to arrive a full parson, hopefully because you are or the end, when all this shit when it starts hit the fan she's now working with milk what is it my claim? It mandated milch on deadwood cause she's. Another vast issues
that is another porto of some kind that deadwood she's destined to be there and she confided in milk and milk in a very practical way says looked ass, though the work stands on Sonya. How this other stuff is bullshit, you milton it's a great supporter, and once again you couldn't write this, but what how shakespearean, where she's? Now coming into around she's. Actually, perhaps gonna your own name? During deadwood, but all of the deceit all she lied and catch up for the cut catch up with her and then her little world crashes right on her season on deadwood training, yeah, but she doesn't right, is herself on deadwood. Well because it came to and before that you know she was writing his Emily. She will she. Yes, he was Emily frazier was yet another character who was singing in the band that you refer to fissile that eyes and speedy, Emily frazier and speedy. To me, I saw these acts aim. Personnel, mostly Beatty was a nickname. Emily Frazier became the real name here. That's how I entirely right, but Mary
It still interesting to have yet another character in this universe. She created so she's on the set of dead. Well, yes, and in the shit, hits the fan yeah and then her life literally, she gets excommunicated by the literary community, she's she's labelled a pariah. You know basically on her forehead is F for fraud, yup, she's, financially ruined im dumb and that becomes really the end she's curled up in a ball for a number of years. Until I come along when it won't really well, why does meal chain does melt hanging out to dry? No, no, I'm not the other hung up to dry him. So now I'm saying that, like even when the shit hit the fan, though he stood, buyer medium, one hundred percent and still sends buyer yeah and so does Billy corgan. Let's get her in here. sounds good I got- was Jeff fears, egg, the director and I think that lays out the story, but now we're gonna talk the laura the master mind, the the the brilliant, fragmented,
mastermind, who, behind this whole thing who I love you. I definitely connected with almost immediately. We have some similar issues, but I dont know why she was very moving and compelling conversation to me. I think It's important that I tell you now that that I mentioned if you have the David milch, the director and writer and creator of of deadwood is involved in this while milch is a by his own admission and reputation, another genius madman, whose I definitely had his own struggles and and the way he factors indicate not unlike Billy corrigan, hoo hoo, laura saw as porto and as a confidant, she saw she was dead and and knew that she had to be part of it, and she approached david milch and David. told David Milch, the entire story of the j t Le Roy arc event
the actual operate whatever you want to call it, and he he heard it. He understood it he supported laura and and became sort of a personal savior to her and and and sorted. Brain did for her in a way that it was. You know, correct and under annabelle that the art is what is important and now I have a conversation with laura halbert and its its powerful, and there are issues discussed sadder, that the I guess I should prefer you for some people say, should do this sometimes, but we do talk about sexual abuse. And it is an emotional conversation. That's what I'm telling you it's it's moving stuff right. This is me and laura Albert laura Albert. I prefer that french has a front and back it doesn't matter guy laura albert willing to do that. I didn't like
mark mare, and I will take the french mark moral, I like room that kind of macomb at home. Behold how many episodes it did. What did you write? I didn't write any of them and nobody wrote any of them. It's all, MR melchett. A lie agreed upon that every genius work yeah every word yeah that it's all out, yes, completely well, workers. I know that towards the end of the documentary and the end of the year before things got bad, your onset and it seems like you and do some work on their value. You write in opposition and then he write all ok. He had got certain rights it he takes in essence and then there's a reason, my theirs. genius continuity, because he doesn't need the money or well with very graceful, about passing on the credit it's almost like everyone should have their fifteen minutes of gaiety. Everyone should have their fifteen minutes of being david milk
right, so I watch all moving. I was talking to to Jeff there, the director that at the time of It's happening like I'd heard about it, but I was not in the world's where it added direct bearing on my life, you not you. I just knew the name jake you Roy. I knew that that something happened it was a great performance, our peace or tremendous fraud of some kind, but I didn't with the details until I watched this film. It's like halley's comment. We know we didn't get smashed to bits right. Well, some one did by the time we hear about it, it's gonna be a while telecoms again right, unlike a phone succession right by, but in watching it in watching you tell your story of it. I found it to be. at like there were moments where I was watching you and I might not know about her and then there are moms right now. I like her in there So I got this is great. Like you know you sort of grow with the relation
we've been watching you in the movie it sort of. Has it's own arc as well? I didn't you know. The funny same thing happens to me when I'm watching it- I'm like- oh my god, yeah how the fuck is she going to get out of this? What the fuck, as pitched. Ah, this is mass. Stop. She writes really in a pickle edge like one of those cliffhanger easy. My words like like right now like when you the thing I guess like at the videos that this writing came out of you and the writing stands on its own. It's great writing. These are beautiful books and they they didn't, deserve to be read and continued to be read so after the sudden and and whatever you went through, you know what your feelings about the actual work love for small thing. I mean that's it. hasn't been that long since I have actually been sitting here,
a physically and hearing people say that to my face, so it's all. There have been more yeah yeah, it's funny because the other day I doing allay times review of grass- and I signed a book- and I sat down to them- I signed a genteel roy and I'm like oh shit, I was wondering how you would sign it keeps happening. I had to sign a whole box of books for a promotional forgot reads: ere, I sign them he'll ryan. I realized oh shit and then I had to go back into my signatures. So bad you real signature. Gaga, J d long ago oh yeah, my son, has damages our. It have hidden sign books, Valentino he's eighteen has echo and that its he's wonderful, he so coils guts degrade sense of humor mean you gotta. You know, he's he's great. What do you think of the movie? His first thing he said was mama who's, a woman at the opening, I'm like, and that's the monona rider he's like
who's that already gaining ground with a slow he's not into slabs into artist. You know it's like artisans, like yeah he's real and houses working relationship with his death needs good. You know how the oars, my good yeah, it's good. We both love our kid and we have moments of connecting which is really beautiful. We were together for eighteen years. So when watch the movie and in how much in in retrospect, because I am not going to if- and I also know a little bit about this from my own journey in life- that if you are fragmented to whatever degree- and you suffer from from trauma of any kind that that disrupted your ability to have a full sense of self correct, yeah. So after this whole arc of obviously it it got to an extreme that you know
when you really think about you, know your compulsion towards calling help lines. It lasted a lifetime and and speaking through these male characters and in seeking help in and love through these care, is that your when you, when you went through the tunnel of of this, massive charade in a way and then it all came crumbling down in your left. With with you, do Do you feel now like you, because you are talking like speedy out there and it came very clean and I imagine that J t Roy could come very quickly, but I, but you have distance from those things now. I soon. In a war was always there we're it's not like civil rights I think we're says you're right. I think that was just a hollywood version anyway, garden gore
then variety dissociation so I really do think that's a whole area that really needs to be looked at. I think I'm not unique. I think there are many women and men, go through how many people go to abuse, and they talk about this. Associating seeing yourself from the sea right. I do that. I run do that right. I was always there. It's not like there some laura. That was never there right. I think what I do. Call hotlines anymore. That happened that need just kind of lifted probably somewhere around the time before billy it? An even calling before corrigan yeah before a court, and I assume most people live in my head, so yeah sure before we got DC right, eggs are literally got and milk should be d, Research is like a robot, tells him commercial
the so so you know you know how like conjoint, who I can say the word congealed and dns yeah, so one is often stronger than the other and they share along. Let's say so. I would say that terminator, which later became jt, separate beings actually morphing, was the stronger one and it was like I was the appendage right and but slowly without paying attention almost through this whole process. I. came stronger and I was reading on my own with my our laws crack yeah. and you see that in the film it was somewhere towards the right before right. Round billy right yeah. I was very again again so soon hey that you'd, I didn't notice it hiring and it it needed to be cut
cord connecting right. I never would have done it right. If you hadn't they have done for me. It had its I'd. Go. I've got arguing for you what you can do for yourself sure it's a lot like drugs in a way right, but well, but though, giving up addiction, you know you're doing for you what you can do for yourself I'll, tell you a story, ok, his gun and jumping ahead, but at the beginning of deadwood of the year mere milch comes to me and he says: how do you want your name to appear in the credits and I say, J t Illinois without missing beat and he gives this kind of sad your you know your dirty told him the whole. I told him they re day after I Madame here he I met him at the after party for wrapping on season two is there were still shooting, while their showing near, and resting at carry fishers. Housing carried out along great with gaiety, not with me, didn't, know speedy, which isn't me, but
in getting this gary no now shedding. So she just knew you a speedy right yet and she didn't like speedy bet waiting there, though, that there are people who day their people down with his speed stir. I don't don't come after my speeds dark, so so he we I gave him. The box, and then he read none that night and he called and invited us out for dinner, and I told right away- and I knew I would I just knew I would- There is no way everything and made me ready to help him, and I knew there's no way. I was not comment on and he got it instantly. There was no like what the fuck michigan unravelling of that. He got what
we ve the entire arc of who you are and why you did what you did it in a heap. He understood what he did. The you know the rest is details. He got the essence nea and the essence is what to you. He said to me: your work is of service may I touched by god, I non touched and an them when everything came down. He said I I got your back so going back to the story If this is my problem, I it's the way I write in paisley. I talk and paisley may be forty percent of the time I landed back to the original point. I'm gonna bring it on back. Okay. So what I do the beginning of the year. How do you want your name to peer? Gives me sad, your look of ok. Whatever he- wants you to use more towards the in the year? This is after the accord been caught? I was going back and forth cause. I had a young son says coming, you know, Jeff was taking care of trevor trevor was in school and it's difficult not having his mom. There says going back and forth,
and meanwhile, all housebreaking loose, because I'm being out did I back to deadwood, mrs after everything's done its cord caught. I'm revealed fully outed comes to me again and he says: how do you want your name to appear in the creditor its own? It is how like biblical look monsieur yeah and I say yeah I mumble and as a sport or albert, I can't even say my name. I didn't even have the french and he said to me: oh man, he said to me: that's what I had hoped and I
well, he gave me his. He gave me the you know, there's this robert Penn Warren poem that he always quoted, and it's this is the process whereby pain in it's passengers is converted to the future tense of joy, and I I always come back to that and and the other one that he always quotes, which I should have tattooed on my face. The secret subject of any story telling is time, but you can never say its name which to me is a fancy way of saying it's a goddamn, not your fuckin time, bitch right. So what that's like is power, You know I'm happy for you and yet in watching the thing like as somebody who is a creative person myself and certainly likes to see things turned inside out an upside down. two: if not, you buy TAT way
ben it's been there and by but the when it when it all started when you, you'd. I imagine the longest relationship you had as J t with anybody with that therapist on the phone when, when I would pick up to make a car I mean taking it back. I always when I would go to sleep at night. I would watch stories of boys. It was it was like And I thought everyone had this remember my sister was may be, for so I was three and a half years older than her, and she couldn't sleep. We shared room and said to her well Let me just what about the boys? How should I can't thing? I can't sleep and here she like, where do you want
out and, unlike what do you think about before you go to sleep gazettes, always how leaped put me out, I would just watch the movie and it was always in a different boy and they were going through some horrible thing and bright, and I just watch that need to be rescued or they would die rome. I never which way I mean our criers like true turning to your own soap opera via an emerald ladys would watch ass, the world turns and there was a girl are you love me anything and I had boys that were being raped and beaten, and that was my soap opera. There I watched every night in your head, yeah yeah, but I could also go into it in the day, but at night time that's how I went to sleep and sometimes they would just keep me up, and I couldn't sleep because it was just so sad. if they died, and I will try to change the ending and make them rescued, but I couldn't they did some got rescued in some died and the. What do you think this sort of involuntary exercise
Of imagination was for you. I don't know you don't know. I don't know why I mean you did suffer your physical and sexual abuse is very young person and did so do you think you were were acting that stuff out until to he threw the boys. I think it was a release its like india squeeze a balloon. It's gotta go somewhere right, yeah yeah, so I think I played gnp, J and talks about the kids playing- and I played it out in my barbie- does nobody wanted to play barbie dolls with me, because my shit was scary to me I was just plain real: they got raped. You know they had sexual abuse, they got physical abuse. You know they're like oh, which wire and sleek, and I can play like that now when cause, it seems again? You know in terms of parenting that obviously are, there was absent and your mother was salvation. So now. You know you know that my mother, you know its understanding where they came from or another
first generation american. I everyone escaped juice from the horror that they survive. Okay and her father was abuses I mean what what did he survive right and I mean these were people who were gaping and there was no like. Let me call how a hotline get help. I mean they're dealing with. Oh here comes here's another program and hearing the stories of they kept money too, because when the cossacks came you to go and bail out and pay off the guards at your husband out and everything's burned the escape. So my mom was graduated college. When she was seventeen, was highly highly intelligent and she raised her siblings and ever got there, basing their highest winner on jeopardy they there. They found some footage of her on sale, the century jeopardy. She was on ten thousand dollar pyramid. She was very creative and shoe
was not able to be an artist. She wrote under a male pseudonym and as a journalist, well yeah. She I I met marvin hamlisch, sami khan. She would take me with our imagined rodgers back staging and I got to see you go artist to artist okay. She she debunked this whole fan. Worship thing. She told me how it worked with frank sinatra where they pay girls to faint she's, like that's fuckin, bull. you never give your power away, worshipping with being a fan, and I was great about the poem world because, as I understand people into like lead, zap land and what I'm going to go pay money to see a spot on the stage baby. I love you. I mean fuck that shit right with punk. I was like calling in mackay from minors I had all their numbers mike nightmares, suicidal tendencies, and I was a journalist fire, you ominous dan toto and my mom will shoot did not have therapy and she was she.
This is what happened this week when we don't treat trauma. This is what fucking her, and I am sure if I do not have the benefit of the group home and the therapy such that I as an able to allow in mother I'd, be I'm sure that I would have. and an abusive mother, I've never touched my son. I never hit him I, but I find things that do I'm out of my mouth, and unlike oh, my god, I know where that's right and I ve. I feel that that vote in front of me I know what that is. My mother did not do to me what was done to her, but she did some of it and if my son chooses to have children, I hope that he can further stop that
I go and that's all we can do not the importance of giving voice to all of this stuff right. So I love my mom sure, and I I deal with this. She. was. I have no doubt that she loved me and would kill for me and also call me at the same time she did she died. She to set fire to me in my room and she fell deeply wounded wit when, when she would get angry, she was so hurt herself that she would snap she would literally snap and her capacity to control herself to stop was not there, and that was because of the damage that she went through right, and this is something you grown to understand. I understood it then you did but where I couldn't really articulated, but I always had that compassion and understanding, and I also knew that I didn't have that capacity to battle like that right,
and and also that, because of the you know, her sort of do you feel like she was threatened by you know. I know I you know it's things. I think I did so complex and we are exploring at all in the coming year. I think that she recognized that I was very my mother's kind of like color blind with emotions, run okay, so, where I am in absorbing sponge and I catch everything everything right, she's, nothing, our age chicken insult you and have no idea that she just like to put a dagger in your heart right and as an interesting combination to have germ with each other, but she also right, was able to recognise that I had this sense Seventy. So she would often use
my ability to scope out a situation and people because she recognized that she had no fucking clue. Is she still around? No, she after the trial, I killed her. I killed her. I killed her. She was in a coma week after the trial fucker trial yup the sued They suit everyone around me. So I think that some of the questions I have him in watching the movie in it in you no kind of your coming out on on your side. Thankfully, that's, because I think the these great, I think, their important books- and you know even what you're talking about now and even white year. Will you do what milch mansion was that if you are of service it? Obviously you know, J t were. I spoke to something. It spoke to an injury. It spoke to trauma its two perseverance of spirit tat spoke to surviving right. yet in and it was actually you're your vehicle first rival and always look to me. It's the way. An oyster creates a pearl oliver taken is not like. I want to sell those attacks, you know right. So, as
the whole, the the everything starts to snowball, once you, and why Savannah your sister in law to play J t and now you ve, got your character, speedy and I'm doing the world and it becomes is you're, theatrical event that only you're really aware of in an jeff and end savannah, really right, that's it until you coptic again. No, no there were there were there were people who knew who it was, but it was like a well kept secret, but do you worried- it. I wish I was very tight with very time than it slowly like a pair of like underwear. It did sure like everything else right right, oh, but where the, In the beginning of that you, where you eat caesar. What is footage of you at one of the first readings in there you were the land. I would have fucking died. If anyone and so the initial intent of all this was really to protect you because you couldn't handle it. It JT was as fast as gloves to handle material I otherwise couldn't
but what's it became public, though I knew you at you enrolled in enlisted people to play along too to ski, protecting that person. That was not some sort of grand artistic eventual restructuring. It was still to ensue a laura albert from from the public, but but only then he wanted his own body. I write a all. The boys that came through the didn't die wanted their own body so you felt that you have that relationship with these boys. In your mind, yeah I mean there was an I moved to san francisco because I had called a hotline and there is a woman named beverly mash worked at a hotline and she spoke to- I don't remember- hitting initial boy was, but he had a multiple. He had multiple personalities and she wanted them to move out to california, so she could help them and they ended up outing me to her right, which I was like you understand that ends, it cause, that's usually very often when I mean I would have therapists
people who were talking, usually the relationship would peter out ones that went on for longer than just a night whatever you know, that's the thing. You wouldn't believe how many dysfunctional people I would call hotlines, and I would find like an alcoholic that works in a bar. There were so many times. I would call a hot in a crisis hotline and they wanted sex with my boy, and I would do it on the phone. Oh, my god, you would not believe it and I did it. I totally accommodated all the time because that's why I was running the mafia's phone sex lines in new york. My mom put in a phone sex line for me, so I can contribute to the family and I loved it. I was training women, other women to do phone sex because I believe We have a real crisis in this country there as they are not properly trained phone sex workers. What what what happens when they're not properly trained, but they fucking when I'd cause. You should be able to see mostly accommodate his fantasy with our having ask him what he fuckin once it shouldn't start off with you like so
it'd be umami, just lucky, falken guy tell me what you want. He and I you often they tell the person who books that called the basics. You know like Larry one, wear pennies or you know they want sick one off, but I can I make it feel like I'm psychic and I take your little clues and I have to teach them had a cat, those clues. So your training provoked such people great yeah. So again, that was something that I realised from working with people you it's something you can't train someone? You need that when people tell me all what you do with g g, that so brilliant I'm gonna? Do the whole thing: it's like we'll take a healthy dose of monsieur gonna radio. yeah, it's like how does the universe farm it's like a rat, an accident and a little bit of oxygen right. What do you think that
why think? You're you're you're an m path to a degree of you. You have an innate empathy too, to sort of lock into somebody's needs in some bizarre way yeah. I guess my question is in a more sort of solid sense of the narrative of what everyone knew is it? You know what happened? that you'd developed. These relationships are very brilliant artists, and you know archived all this stuff and a lot of people were hurt and felt betrayed, and an there were angry. Your property are probably rio irredeemably. So I imagine but light of the relationships that you built with, say: gus fans, aunt, organic cooper or end the other writers are there he that you know after all, was said and done and after the you know, the thing collapsed that you still are friends with one thing that made it really hard. Is
when the media was coming. I it was very kind, intuitive everyone else who wrote Take my morning on these books were publishes section. They would call the press conference in sight you got me, I'm not really and I'll buy no rhinoceros from antarctica. You know right, I didn't do that. It I the opposite, worried people testifying because to me it is fighting for my life. It's like tinker bell. You know we have to see, we believe we believe and and live in it main people angry guesses like why? Are you just fuckin give it up already just give it up give water that the fact that we know you're busted right and it was no sorry, no rights deauville. Wait no you're totally busted dope stilwell, it's like the kid who has cookies all over their face and the cookie jars knocked over and you're. Like I'm sorry, he can't prove it where's the footage and you wouldn't come out no
is again it's like you know like Meltzer. That's what I had hoped at my keys, don't hope it ain't happening and then, when the new york times when Warren St John would call people he told them, I was being charged with mail fraud and broke it. Leading the patriot act. So imagine you a call, and you find out that the person that you have close connection too is not who they say: they are, which is pretty fuckin devastating a my employing and then there's probably, and that their possible criminal charges, which I was like what the fuck is. It is like mailing penis bones across state lines. Is that, like a barboza charge, there was none. There was nothing that's. Why has as like guess, mailing from venus bunch of prostate lines. Is that it in. I have no idea under the the patriot act. They said it in a tree,
They accuse me of violating the patriot act, but we always flew under our own passport. So that was you know not here, so it in maine people really terrified, and there were people who came in asked me and that was really powerful to be able to step back, and it was hard because I didn't quite understand. That's why I couldn't Take any of those opportunities. People were saying to me nobody's going to care about you in seven months and I'm like well, nobody cared about me seven months ago. So what do I lose? I if, if other people, tell your story. I will well that's painful, but if that's how it has to be because I don't understand it and when I would sit in the room and the writers' room, so many the character they were a mystery unto themselves? And I I said to David: you know I I relate and he's like. I hope you I hoped you were paying attention cause. I got it,
I was a mystery onto myself and I could not go. Do a celebrity. Tell all cause that's nice what it was about and if that men dying misunderstood, I had enough people that I trusted new, who I was it's fine. If the world wants to say that I'm the anti christ and about those relationships, you know a lot of people had those converse nations with me and they got it when I connected the knights monet allowed me to give them my road map to crazy, because you had like white men of privilege, I'll say, which were saying there the way they were putting their mode of she wanted to meet celebrities. She did it too, who me for what I four cocked reason you know and it's like again parted This is why I wanted to work with Jeff. Was he understood my paradigm he's he's jewish. She comes from the east coast that mean thing also is that he comes from the punk seen right. So if your paradigm, it it turns it up,
down when they were saying my motives, it's actually upside down and you need someone who can get that. So when they spoke to me they were either most. they were available to that. Because, again, if you came with the work, all the stuff in the work is already all that Are there there's a scene in the movie, I'm telling gus, and I remember this: I'm writing the scene where the cherry vanilla. The kid boy is revealed to be what is not theyve. He said he was something, for an, and they may worshipped him. Ok, they turn to into laura. the king heavier and they found out that he's not who he said he was, and their hunting him with torches and they're going.
Kill him and he's hiding in the woods and he's naked and pu comes and says, finds him and says what were you thinking? And he said I didn't mean for any of this to happen. I you know I get chills because when I wrote that and I saved the keyboard- I I I was I was crying because I knew I was writing the future mark that there was no jt. There was terminator. There was no data, yet no savannah. I just given birth to a son and I'm watching this unfold and I'm writing a future, and I know there's fucking nothing. I can do to stop it. Okay and how's. Your relationship with savannah a you know. She'll always be family
yeah. You know it again. It depends what people were. Therefore, and let me just say this: there were a lot of people like I said. I know how to make a trade, and there were people that were very happy, that they had an under age boy that had no parents, that was a professional prostitute and was available and a lot of phone sex sexual relation, Hips were entered into again. If we were to catch a predator guess what would happen? I could be a seventeen year old woman with tits down to my knees and guess who's going to jail. Not me. Ok, I have those recordings. Perhaps maybe yes occur so in other words, trades were made, and so their reaction might be informed by the fact that thereby- orgasm was had with a forty year old middle aged woman.
A nice little twelve year old boy, your blood, professional prostitutes nearly did. Not barons so way Talking about motives what what You see your motive as now, when you talk like everyone else's motives. When you look at the story and where you land, and now you're doing the work as yourself. What what do you feel in retrospect? You were moving towards. You know what was really difficult was when we would go do a reading and people were lined up around the block, and I would go, is speedy and ask people why they were there and they'd be like why the fuck should I talk to her and but when they would, they would talk about what it meant to them and they would go to savannah and she didn't have those experiences and she couldn't be. There
with them. Ok, you known in twelve step. You get to keep it by giving it away right, I'm what was feeding me. This was standing there. those people on how may not commune write them talking about the work and when I heard that like legs, like I said in the beginning, I haven't had that much experience. The books have been out for how long and to have someone look at me and say what they thought it If this is new for me signing the books under my name, this is new. For me, this is the process whereby the pain in it's path, nus, is converted to the future tenth of July right. So I get to stand there with people and hold them right, and everything in the past has made me ready. I have been there with people and you know I feel them coming. I see it and they're there.
Shaking and there's a way that that holding themselves- and I know- and it's like all. Ah all the shit of like like do I look. Ok. Is this right and my mind? That's that's away and it's another person coming therein, my party and we talk about how you just show up and you the next indicated fuckin thing because it being in the world is really hard, and that's what it's fucking about. How do you make it different? How do you let people know am, and what I found out is that the secret to that mark is craft. I've listened to you raid and there's something that you are able to do where you break stuff down and make it digestible, so
people, it's something that people almost on the edge of a new articulated. So it's like that, aha and it it it just it's almost like a laxative for your browser. Constipated right now and all the girls were only talking about. I think shitting is the number one literature metaphor: how do you move that shit out? It breaks it down it's. How do you take problems of the soul and spirit and transform them into issues of craft and technique, so it lodges in somebody, so they care about something they didn't before. City can move out of the illusion of that isolation of self right cassettes. You only we get out of our suffering at an end and showing up and being honest him I was I was, and I was in Brazil. Brazil was the first country that recognise
and no problem. They put the books out under my name and invited me down with Alice walker and I'm signing books, and this girl comes up to me and I and I recognize, and she shaking she tells me: she's lost her english. She apologizes she takes a picture and I I get really. You know Maria Bromwich. I think my epitaph should be the artist is present, because that's what really love it's like to be super fuckin present with someone. None of that, like you state in a warship shit, I I I went inside with her and I'm like here's, my email, you write to me. Okay, it's okay. I loved Brazil and I felt a connection to all the people there as they did a play about me. It was a punk rock martyr. This you'll love.
in a play at the trial scene because, due to their christian, they have me with my hair, pulled back and I'm wearing a cross yeah. So in Brazil I get to be the the the the smarter joy is the sixth. So I felt I'd go back to brazil. I sure enough. I get invited to a film festival to be a judge and I'm like yes, the day I'm leaving, I get an email, it's from de lisa becquerel. She sent me a photo and she said I dunno. If you remember, and then she tells me that a family member sexually molesting her and that she knew she
and to tell me- and I said to her- this is worth this- is god I said I'm coming there today. If I didn't have all this document, it any more like, like everything you just see, this kind of shit happens all the fuckin time with me, like all the time, so no one's, no one surprised anymore. When coincidences coincidence is god's waves, dang anonymous baby, that's just it and I said to her: I'm coming down there to day her city brasilia. Ok of all the city's I've been to. That was the one and I asked her permits, into contact people that I already knew that that we're gonna be there to get services. It lets that's meeting your mom, I did, I know how to do stuff here and Did I went down there? We got the abuse to stop. We met with her mom. She got therapy services, she's, a beautiful young lady. She went to school she's a singer, I'm in touch with her. I can't
How many experiences like that- and you know none of that other shit matters dad? Is it and that's that's why you deadwood. That's why I knew Corgan. It's it's a commune of spirits. It's you! How do you keep showing up to the? How do you keep showing up in faith to this fucking process of life? That is it every day you have to choose. Fear or faith. Sometimes every moment, and how do you break it down to do the next indicated thing? So you know you know that saying it gets better. It gets better, fuckin, shit, oh some times and doesn't get better. I really love that there are all these people that are fame is and have like such rad lives and its gets better maybe for you, mother fucker bonus in a group home eating state peanut butter. If you tell me it gets better, I'm like yeah like when and and what it's like you know. Sometimes you just have to buy yourself another fucking day and when I would tell people it's just
man when they see a fat girl and they want to roll their eyes or fat boy right and it's just like ceilings discuss of you, ve, no self control that that's. What was the importance of that movie? Precious? Ok, you know precious. It has a lot of problems like the dark doctors are bad and the lighter skinner good. You know it's got issues, but this is what was so important about that movie. It played sundance and I was reading about this.
A one like some audience appreciation or whatever the ward you know and the market is. There was an article about this is like Washington, post or some some newspaper and they are seeing the marketers. Don't know what to do with this film. Of course they don't, because you ever protagonist, that's morbidly obese she's, tall, she's, dark she ain't cute. Can we be trusted to give a flock? Of course, we Can'T- and you know it was beautiful and if I had that growing up, maybe I would have had to go and like like will be well what be goldberg in her kommeni routine. She puts a yellow t shirt on her head and Look at my long blonde hair and my blue blue eyes, and that was her being as a child ass. She would play because she knew who had the power, because when I was a kid, ok, you we're like the same age so in seventy four
it was illegal to run away until nineteen seventy four, because they weren't even calling breast cancer. You can even say breast- and I know this because my mother's cousin is Betty rollin, who wrote first to cry mary Tyler Moore played her before there was chest cavity, so we're not even fucking talking about breast cancer. We sure as shit we're not talking about sexual abuse, physical abuse, any of that chick couldn't run away so when they started finally doing the after school specials. What do you think it was? It was a blonde hair, blue eyed, little boy that was on those tv shows very cute, all this shows the clock and you know when they would do hucks and and and tom story there always acute and boys could be. Miss genius were girls well you better, be like there's taxi driver pretty baby, you could be a pretty sure. Your choice was that right and I got if I'm going to be heard agency, sat chubby jewish girls. Never I would talk about. was going on there. There was no trans
the scary thing, there was sweet transvestite from a rocky harder at your show. Trial was like fucking. Thou is like art, thou iraq. There was a horror show. That was what it was called right right. I had no articulation and also the fag, I had no choice about my sexuality and how what I felt for me, you know I'm violence and sex are connected. Ok, I do not I from from for me to feel tat. I have to have an orgasm. Do I need to think about being hurt and that that's true right and I would never say that. Okay, that's that's it. I have no choice. I don't know how you disconnect those wires and I do- and I know I've experimented doing that and I feel maybe if it was my choice, that would be
something bad. You know anybody like flying, you know, go two thousand street fair and if you know you can't beat him so it has been drawn up by My choice. I have issues with doing I want it does connected, but I don't fucking know how- and so I ever since I can remember, was always liked, and that's it that's shameful to me it I I I understand it and being able to talk about it. It's like you know, you're only such as your secrets, and it's very it is liberating targeting madden- and I know where creates a space where other people to do it. Part of wired he d j t. Yes, it's to protect myself, because I had no words for this and that's directly connected the abuse. When you, three of them said you are bad girl for feeling joy had it because he's spanked me and touched me at the same time and the wires guy across it and an thou
that was a- and I knew I remember my mother when she was dating. She got this. She would do like law There's you know you didn't have internet, so she ran an ad and she got a letter and she's reading me the letter from a guy who is into Esam and she's, like oh, this guy's, so fucking sick. This is sick. This is sick and that's how that was seen- and I was like. Oh my god, that's what I'm into and I'm really fucking sick. I am so fucking sick and why? I think that will how he got here that what is beautiful about all of this house. I to the fact that you're working on I'm you're, putting this stuff together in a real memoir, is that people are appreciating the work, despite all the shit that distracted. You know the focus from what
the work and that you know you're you're sort of like survivalist. Almost you know whatever the if his pathologic or of its god, given that you're perseverance passed all this stuff, that happened. Young, obviously not m, not talking about child abuse, but the media circus that revolved around your, how you public we've resolved you know in in in the literature for the writing and for what it represents for what David Milch cause you're being of service as being the pinnacle of what art should do is happening in that's beautiful thing. In till talking to me that you know an audience for the literature, for the writing and for what it represents for what David Milch cause you're being of service as being the pinnacle of what art should do. Is this happening in that's beautiful thing, and you know I really had an inner sense that the right person would come
I need to be rescued, cause I, after the trial, I felt the gay go down. I said I'm done, I'm done I could they were they were people were coming and I really wanted to be rescued. Cosette I, after the trial, I felt the gay go down. I said I'm done, I'm done I couldn't I couldn't write. Cause. They were, they were. People were coming and I really wanted to be rescued, because I I, after the trial, I felt the gate go down. I said I'm done, I'm done I couldn't. I couldn't write any more so when when Jeff came and I saw far, as I know, unless I really am split, and they just having found the body the erika, I he tried to kill people, and yet you really care- and you understand right, as far as I know, unless I really am split and they just having found the body the erika ok, because I I have no filters our aid to the people, you got J, tease, truth and theirs.
and there's mine allowed to rest transparently on the grace that gave him rise and lack of moral asean ray and I dislike. Ok, because I I have no filters are due to be bold. You got J, tease, truth and there's mine, I didn't make em stake, telling J t story savannah all the time human said that J T was from south virginia and what a realized is it didn't matter? It's like Peter sellers. She could say anything and they were paying attention as the felt authenticity of the work care. in them through, so we were on the cloud and the cloud was built by like its icon, warts, okay, so it ah make believe your walk. You are finding the portal to hug words in the train station and it doesn't matter what the fuck she's out here so and when he came, and I recognise that he someone completely, given everything away, because I didn't have anything added in the tapes were made for me too. I would take because
my mother was unchristian, like I said, and she had one and eighty eight not mean a real real to real. track and she would sit me in front of it and I would let I always did accents and voices, and things like that- and let me say this about the speedy bad accent I was very good ear and I will absorb whenever I hear, but it's a short life. Ok, it's like it's like. I was like I battery from one year to to get whatever africa so anyway. So so it slides all the time? So what I did to cover it was speedy was not just british. She was from south and she was from now: africa, new zealand, Australia, slide lived and just to fuck things up. Israel sloshy over the place there was sloshy will look yeah hobbes, we'll talk forever. I, like you a great deal and I like the books- and I am just happy that you know you came out of the
I, like you a great deal and I like the books- and I am just happy that you know you came out of the hole and he gave the year you let you trusted Jeff, he's doing It is a minor scrape and just like I I you know. I want the books to have another life from your lips to god's ears, as they say, thanks for talking. Thank you for what the fuck that what I would definitely see the dark author, the jetty lorry story, but also get these books. He especially the heart, is deceitful, above all things and Sarah I would definitely see the dock author, the jetty lorry story. also get these books. Especially the heart, is deceitful, above all things and Sarah. by J t leroy, who spoke through Laura albert and wrote through her,
and lower. I can, I hope she I hope she writes that memoir man don't forget, you can still get. I comedy special more later on wtf so good good, on the homepage and merge section hey so good, good, alright I'll play a guitar for a minute hm hm hm I boomer lives
Transcript generated on 2022-09-05.