All right, what do this? How are you what the partner is, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck's yours what's happening, partner marin. This is doubly to have my part gas. Welcome to it is everyone doing what day is this thursday? That's what day this comes out, how's that going for you how's the thursday going today on the show hutch harris from the band the thermals talking about an obsession not with high terrace thoroughly, but I'll explain a second. I did want to mention that death. They told you I swear about the movie idea with crystal in aragon drain a bunch other comics. It's called flock of dude and its now playing in theatres, it's on itunes and now and also rented on demand, go to flock of dude movie dot com, to watch the trailer and for links

I think I was finding and I'll get around the watching it. I've been watching that mike and dave NI, NI, wedding it's your mike and steve or whatever I it's weird not watched a couple of movies it I've been in. I should do that. I should make that time as opposed to watching every episode of the Sopranos again and rock and roll of session records record. Yes, I've had to have the records are still coming. I listened to the records you send me. I can't I can't promote all the records you sent me if that's what you're, backing, if you think it marin's, gonna love this record, maybe marin! Well, I don't know if I don't mac and tell you that, but am also I get a lot of records and an eye, and I guess a shake. I give them all a spin I will tell you that I have been listening to some good records, but that's that sort of what I wanna talk about is the obsessive quality of things. The obsession also go to dvd,

that comes swash tour, carnegie hall, there's a literally, maybe like to undertake its left and on jack, I'm just being right with you. So if you hold now on that, that's how many are left literally to undertake its the vacant chicago. I'm going to be in nashville and yet there's a lot of tourists. I'm not going to plug each one individually right now, but go to wtf pod dot com, slash tour buster, the kitten some people are pestering me for an update. Buster is doing well he's a crazy stinky kitten like he is one of those kittens that gets yes out of nowhere possessed with demonic intent by just that and nowhere home just are ripping your hand apart, written some furniture part running a hundred miles an hour. You o clock

in the back of your neck as he runs over your head. That's what that cat is he's. A black demon he's also a very forty, so I have a demonic forty ass cat. That annoys me, but I love him cause. He does real execution When you have one of those kind of cats you just sort. I tell my god: what's he gonna fuckin, do don't do oh shit? He broke my god, damn it. Why did you fuckin? Hey, don't rip that oh shit? How might where he's running so fast and then he try to wear out with the fuckin laser pointer, the fake mice. Hopefully that dealt though just relax, he's terrorizing monkey, the old man by the monkey, neither one of my through ever knew, how to play and- in they're kind of learning at this weird old age of fourteen fifteen. These cats are learning at play.

I don't know why they didn't, they knew they were wild. When I got him, they were not, they just have any capacity for it. So it's guy interesting to see an old thing, we're not a play in his old, age sourdough like me right, deaf black cat is been gone for two days, but sometimes he does is. I think he has go on a brief hiatus to meet with his mystical advisers on the other plain to give them up, on how I'm doing because deaf black cat is a mythological beast. That debt has entered my life and dumb. I the day that he disappears for everybody usually comes back and will see I'll. Let you know hutch Harris today from the thermals nodded with the thermals is zalm. I saw them it's out by southward. I don't even know how many years ago, but it was one those situations where, like I register things like,

I dont go to a lot of music and I'm not usually festivals, and I remember at the same thing with the hold steady at at south by southwest. I think it was the same show. I think it was the thermals opening for the hold steady and I see so little live music, and when I watch the thermals I was like. Oh my god. These guys are greatest banned there, the best ben I've seen in years, and I believe that I said think they're great ban, but at tat moment it was it's like why have I heard of them? It was just the experience of seeing something new and being fuckin excited about I listened to the whole steady, but I did the thermals than they had. There was a hutch and a woman, and another guy they seemed interesting. They definitely sound. We play guitar like the way they sang. I like the way they looked on stage, now. Just I was all in I was like this is a great band. Then I started to pursue like every. Record the thermals ever did including a peace and including my cathy and hutch records. Before that,

moser alongside that I'll talk to him about that annual what is what are they about? Now became this complete van boy for a few months- and I was I was talking, I was mailing with diamond. I thought they were so cool now thought they were or the me now by having them on the show that thought. cool enough and that I'm I'm fifty at this point when all this is happening, but that's my action? I gotta one wife shown my mind is blown it's fuckin. All over tower. I just I gotta have I've done that? many bands and it's hard with jazz people, but new back, and things I've ever heard of I'll fuckin I'll go islands are buying records. I just bought a disordered record. I was at a restaurant and I heard a song and out on the on the sound just my boy? Who is this and that and they said it zooms, I think it's how you pronounce it. Zouma was sort of ambient. Kind of droning repetitious, but for some reason it was It was moving me. It was

teaching in squeezing my my sad a cynical heart now, MIKE Soames I get get some southward jobs record are probably order. All the zones records that's just away or what me especially after I see it. the empire. I want to talk to her. I want I want to share this discrepancy. My friend, the impassioned from this four came over what a wild and we talked a bit about seeing bans. Why what we get out of it. This didn't make into the conversation we heard the last time. So this is like an outbreak of that talk we had, but it fits in with the show today. So I figured I should share with you and that you should hear it causes about seeing live, music and and how that makes us feel so this. Me and damn pashmina, the two I saw Bruce Springsteen recently really yeah. I was thinking about you before I went to see bruce. I was thinking about your bit about going to this, bones and be unworthy like what, if what, if you can't do it anymore,

and what, if it's not like, when I was fourteen rwanda jeez, firstly, bruce rinsing first time I was years old born in the usa s age, her with your parents, my parents are iron stadium, eighty five, when the passionate yep and louis. They were there good memory there. How is bruce Springsteen evolving is still the authenticity that bruises. Loved is known for his there still the working man's ethic of Springsteen show where you're elevated and you feel like you know that these are guys doing a job and its bring. As a long for three fuckin hours for hours. Look at those guide their like union guys with that get hours I mean he still puts on it. I'm good your fear. My fear was, like you said like what like that here In turn, for a while, I heard he had a rotating cuff surgery. He's sixty is sixty six sixty seven years old and you are concerned about the surgery You're a concerted idea of him needing to have surgery right upset me superman, bruce right

if you forgive them as being invincible, sure you know, and and and and especially like they did, with stones, stones, rock and roll? Is such like? It's such an expression of youth near the like the idea of an one person freinds, iraq out is so sad. I get so pathetic. the idea of it is, but that, but did you have the same experience I did? Is that, like I'd, there was a lot of concerns right and you don't want them to just become a greatest hits machine either, though, do I care, songs and you might not have heard them live in a while, but there's something about professionals doing what they do best that if they can still specially someone I bruce at an even the stones. They're, not gonna, use, backtracks, that's gonna be will live, meet only aware of an earpiece here.

if the monitors that are like age and old school and the fact that when I saw the stones, it took them two songs to sort of. Why get on the same page right here for Keith to realize that he was amplified that you know that when they were just they were just there? It didn't quite click between him and ronnie until like the third song, and then once that happened, you like your most respected him for that it's good broken rock and roll. It's going to be a messy at first and it's a little messy, but that's a star but I was I was so impressed at the atom fashion, and how how good sounded playing weighing straight through liking owned and make was in good form. You know it was a little disconcerting to see him dancing because he is old image, but you do have concerns, for them is people because, as they get older, they become people right. You know where you are did you like the fucking stones, they're like superheroes, but now, as everybody gets all of sort of like nah always have they still got it right right now, totally yeah bruce I mean look. He went out in a a he he's, got a little catwalk out into the crowd.

He's out there thing that he falls under the crowd and ate a crowd serve back to the staying here, a crowd of where you goin certainty that point burs, rotate or cut back. Where you I got you they know yet searchingly last some crowds or if you should have jumped into the crowd. The cemetery gingerly sat down on the correct here. You got me on me and even the crowd was moving in kind of slowly like everyone. Here there are fifty re exactly sixty years old, it was cool. His mom was in the audience, she's ninety and she's dancing, and he went out and this into the crowd and was dancing with her and then round, which was then pretty sweet. Their own cry right cried when they play moonlight mile for no reason, no reason so you come away the bruce rinsing I'm feeling away didn't happy and will concern for bruising a realisation of your own mortality and brass bruises

and also it made me think of you, because it made me think of your bit about the stones, but also many think when you are talking on the show recently about seeing Jeff tweedy near perform in awe jeff oryx living. and about how like he's just a guy. Who knows how to do the job, and I don't tell this- is a movie you ve been like thinking about I like to show respect for craft beer like someone who has in the years to just get good at the fucking job. Right and you're that you like them rise in two and when I saw you on tour last last summer, fallen army was like it struck me like the level of like just command that you had on. This, right. You were in your element like it, and even though you know falada night, when I saw you five ten years going the level of like I'm ill of me, anxiety the act gone right, but more recently right- and I agree- you have that command and what what I was curious to ask you about is like one of the things that I see in the newer music that someone like Bruce writes now

like. He used to spend years working on an album ten months just to write the song born to run like like it'd, be such a perfectionist and as he gets older, he gets more confident that he that he knows what the fuck he's doing, but then edits. And then you hit the prime fruits, for his private born the usa, internal of love, your time great I'll meet. You hit that private. Then you get to apply where you get overconfidence brain and you start to start putting out songs. The queen of the supermarket was one of the worst songs ever released. Well, here's what you do this, my dear old bar, you ever worried that could happen to you what comics or die a abed as long as your generating new material, I mean you're always going to be a victim of what was He's got his last hour, you again that happens with guys at her. Like, I think, a little bigger than me. You know like either as part of their something happens culturally, where, where weather its genuine or not when somebody is tremendously successful,

I think, with music when there's a string of hits that really, if you think about the people that you have musically many of them defined your entire adolescence. Like there's a group of us of songs that defines you probably through college, where you can put it on and be like. You know like in a baby we were born to or whatever feel comments on that you like and but but the thing is like, are you ever going to be that kid again? Are you ever going to have those emotions connected to a piece of music that guy did? Is he ever going to be able to do that for you again, probably not, but but so is it. Is he going to age out of of what he was great at may, because you talk talk to these guys, like you egoism, thomas become too my Marshall Crenshaw, who believe it they'll doing great work. If not the best work ever did, but they don't have the cultural relevancy, used to or the hit making capacity that they once did or the eu the audience they once did, but they still kind of plough

why, with somebody like bruce what I know about the stones like I'm, not going to listen to a new stone song, what are you nuts you're talking about from the audience perspective? I'm talking about it from like twenty years ago bruce would never have released the song queen of the supermarket, because he would have no or someone would have told him. This is a shitty song, dont, release it and it would have ended up in the dustbin and at what think bruises written any shitty songs back then I think most albums have some shitty song, but I think that, like I think that it is the album in his real prime, the the bad songs are the let every sounds pretty good and the great sounds great None of this all like there are a lot of songs in more recent albums that are, that would never have made an honour those earlier albums and what I'm curious about is like he. He gave this great keynote speech itself by south west a few years.

sort of like his advice to young museum. Any was based. You said, and I think this is for anyone and create a field like a worse for comic. Still later. You know you need to find a sweets whereby between believing that you rock and believing that you suck if that's true, I I think that you know genuinely generally, artists are probably doing the best they can at that moment in their life, and I think that you know more. So what probably happens is I think, you're speaking to this, as that, they they end up appearing like their hacking on themselves, like they're they're, going to sort of go back to the troops it they know and try to do to sort of you know bring them back to life. Somehow, like I imagine, queen the supermarket as some sort of working class anthem about a woman, we saw at the supermarket, trying to feeder kids, and

If you notice that this will be my my blue collar song, for this, that's right, so he's hacking himself right. Where is yo? Is he still a spokesman for that? Was he ever really? Did he capture a poetically? You know very succinctly, for out of people and mean it at another time. Yes dizzy, it now. Yes, our does. Does it see a retread, that you're more likely to get into retried zone, then you are like, I don't think he's he might be like the creativity and the passion he once had for his subject matter, but but I think that the danger is that they do they have a formula and in Is someone going to tell them that you know hey dude? It is a formula song a lot of times. That's all they get from record companies like make another one of those right, but how for you, as someone who has like hit a this a hit as a restaurant,

in your career and reach the level of confidence in command of your craft? Here? How do you guard against overconfidence? Why? Well that's a good question other I I don't know like you. I dont think that bruce would. Even if you talk to him about it, he said like then, we'll cocky I mean you're. He Bernie, even not necessarily cocky, but me up, like part of his whole thing about about what who uses it is an exuberance and Durance and an assertive sort of humble persist. That's right, I think, he's always been pretty confident. You know what I mean I am a he spent three years working on the album iran, and the only reason why that the outcome was ever finished was because the record label booked him on a tour and pulled the vote. I think that's about it after that, the studio and pulled him out of the studio and took him on the road. That's an element of being hungry versus not being hungry. Has your has you know a diet like the one thing.

Said recently, and I think this speaks of that is like when you spend your whole life, trying to two just trying to get somewhere trying to do so. and then all of a sudden, your afforded the opportunity to do it. You know you do it and then yeah. Do you get complacent? Yes, like I would The complacent is the word over. I dont think I ever time, believing that bruges too confident him. He might be complacent in his skill set and not be as hungary or things are not as urgent or perhaps you know, as get older. You know your concerns I'm a little more selfish and less a broadway and pathetic, and sometimes that feels like posturing. You know, does bring seem really care about the queen of the supermarket. I don't know, but I, but for me you may concern is like you, I mean I feel better. My crap, but I still am up against creating new stuff and you know and I said this is the other days like I don't want to I want to sure that I am growing creatively

personally, and that means publicly with with what with- I'm putting out there and my fears, Yeah, repeat my tone, not my jokes! So you know you say, you know what you know, what you're locked into and how you're gonna go, was an artist, but I think that you are you give bruce. In the past, because he has been fairly courageous and doing new things in his career. It takes a real, unique soul to not hack on himself and been boosted it for a long time like he you he went out there and I If you don't like anybody else. Like I often question like, why is even touring these gotta have enough money unless he really fucked up somehow, but the truth of the matter is you you want to see. If you can still do it you still got it would take. Ten couple asked him at once in an area like why you I even doing this you. What else is he going to do? we use by his isa is said what because I'm was my son say an attention whore. Oh there you go,

yeah. Well, that's honest and I think that's the bottom line with all of it or, like you know, I'm I can't stay at home anymore, she's driving me crazy. I really, I really think a lot of these guys. You have got to go baby right now, it's going to be six week right. I know I'm sad I gotta go outside. that was me. Damn passion from the sport for pod gas w and my sees do an especial series right now on race, culture and food called. Who is this restaurant for its provocative stuff? You should check it out, get the sport vote today, wherever you get, your pod casts a right. Can you do that? So now I talked to hatch harris who I can

We had a different idea of when I was like on my thermal bender. I you know, I just thought I I decided he was this way: cool kind of a dark, brooding, intense guy that and that was completely focused on the music and certainly wouldn't want to chat with the with the likes of me. That's what I decide a years ago I got on thermals bender, but then I find I'm totally wrong here we guy smart. great songwriter musician and completely pleasant. We had this conversation and he sings at the end. So hang out for that. This is me and hutch harris of the thermals.

So when did I like I'm trying to figure out like it's been years like I got the field that when I saw you itself by it was this is coincidental thing. Maybe you are opening for the whole dead right yeah, so I think that would have been two thousand seven, so thousand seven hundred just wandering around I see you and your ah, and yet she soon. Cathy and a drummer right right around when I am yet Lauren was our drummer at that point. What is Cathy play categories base right so So I see you guys and my colleague shit. These guys are really fucking good. They sound interesting, unique and then and then like ours, compelled by the music and then hold steady, came on. They were pretty good bye, oh yeah yeah, but you guys You know made an impression so them like who the fuck. You guys. I would like to like look up your name and then I had home, and then you go by all the records and then I think I reached out to you- and I think you were like who's this guy-

oh no! No, I knew I mean I bet a villa fan for a long time. That's why that's my that's my like weird, dumb, insecure fan, do yeah now it's the authoring. This guy has no not at all, not at all yeah and then we never sorta together so, but you ve been doing this awhile rights I think he looks eighteen years or so the bike I feel like you worked more like your hair was wilder back. Then I think, you're, almost nine years ago, yeah yeah yeah he's right yeah. It is it's almost ten years right, yeah, I saw you yeah. When you were my kids, I know you're caviar, forty now now yeah, so that was there are thirty you're already sort of like is this going to where I was already yell? We we the first If we get sign, we are like twenty six, oh yeah, I was almost is just about to be too late. Where'd you grow up. I grew up in the bay area like what would I have about from likes. As a legally married. No, we do,

did like sixteen years ago or some any don't don't know. Now we have, I won't you date. We dated like ninety eight to two thousand or two thousand one. Really, yes, criminal long time you ve, been working together yet and separated, spend like best friend since then get you never sort of ideologies We are, we are. We gave it another, try like two thousand and five or so, and that was like no. No. That was the last time we tried to get back to you and you can still work together. Yeah yeah, definitely wow yeah, alright. So what part of the bay area san jose a my dad worked for adobe, so we are really in cupertino, first wave tech, kid right, yeah, okay, so I was my parents from the east coast and I was born new york and then we moved when I was eight. We moved to San jose, so my dad could work. My dad worked like at a bunch of different startups for adobe, but yeah. So we lived in my campbell san jose competing, but that was the first tech boom yeah like removed to the two like south bay and nineteen. Eighty.

Oh, my god. Yes, that was when all the their big shot, nerds the superpowers doing the big work yeah, so you dad got in the ground floor yeah finally well yeah I mean he worked for low income by god. He would like debug programmes, security gap kind of now he would buy. You have no that is as much as I can tell you about? Yeah is still around the idea here in these up there, yet there and in jose so yeah retired or working there or there retired my dad's a musician. So he does a lot of music stuff he's a piano player, but yeah he's been retired for awhile because, like cause, he had a piece of adobe. Yeah yeah that did it yeah yeah, exactly yeah. He got out a while ago, because this was you know you, obviously you like adobe's huge now, but yet he like got with them like in there, maybe like second or third year, and he got vested and he did write bugging and took care of him.

life right, I love people that stop working specially at an early age. I want people that, like that they're like I got enough- I'm going to do what I want. Well, he just wanted to you like he started teaching he's someone who, like. I think this is the third time he's retired. Like he keeps retiring, then he'll go back like he way like taught music school and then like quit, that and but yeah. So, like he's always doing something, so you grew up with music. how many chaplains you got a lot just wanna, have a sister who's in san francisco. She had musician she's, not at all she's, a teacher really teacher, yet teachers and your dad taught my mom mom's a nurse It required as well just retired, good, decent people drowning, things hurrying that children and employing things they are important, important among first yeah for the most important things are. Definitely. I talked to a lot of people whose parents were teachers. I yeah very interesting alot of creative people. I guess that you know it's. I guess that kind of environment is supportive. I mean, like you really think about people who have the the

MR commit life to a creative pursuit. It's hard for parents really get behind that, but I guess if parents or like will you now the kitchen do what he wants in the great lakes and happy, and this is bad. We gotta let him do it right the normal reactions I, the unesco may any money and its can be hard. Yeah, yeah, My mom was always trying to get me to go back to school or to try to do something else, then. Eventually, when the ban got to lack of certain, why were they were doing? We were doing ok, I mean my parents, support it, but then they got really support over. Then they stop telling me, you know maybe when you could show em a record. It's funny, though, I write that there's that leap from like look. I made a thing today to the next phase, which is why were they play that thing? yeah right. Where can I hear that thing that year once it was on sub pop, it was like a label that was like normal yeah, yeah elements and stuff like that, you could point to yet I wanted less real.

On the same level of them right here with something they had heard. A yeah. That's a big! That's a big job here and there Then there they still go like, but are you making money yeah but ok? You grown up your dad's, a piano player like what kind like classical jazz. He did yeah it's like he did like big band stuff and show tunes like he did off broadway stuff in new york. Oh so he was a real musician right. Yeah yahoo is professional. He was in, like the air force, and and then yeah, maybe like most of the seventies, he was in new york, doing off broadway stuff a really so like the weird experimental, theatre, stuff, you, environmental, just smaller stuff. What like your last, shows friday shows or, like you know, the torch song for like musicals, and then he would go like during the day. Like singers, would come to our apartment and would be would rehearse with my dad and then he would accompany them to their ideas

since that was another man yeah. That was how he made some bread rights. Is that, like you, its work on this and I'll be your company yeah and then gonna go the audition, and in the long ago my name is so and so and accompany me is whether that Jeremy, heresy, army heresy out the accompanying mc ryan. And even fiber to your right. He put the music on and then he'd look at her and do that exactly and then she'd nervous, we singer song or maybe get the gig they'd say yeah, I'm sorry or do they say right, then I wonder now and I will say what it: what did they say will call you and your parents they together fills. There's the emigrants, gather, although ya that accompanying actresses and no problems, writer him rights already something years. Good job right. Yet so something that's well adjusted. Well, jested, bread, family, We see microbiologist a guy harangue, all fucked up when I saw you, you you're like what this guy seems to be angry about something

but maybe that was just the nature of the music yeah. It's I mean, don't we all get angry that he has angry that day, that day is that it was out by such a fucking mess south by I know I I complain about it. Every probably done it like four or five times, but I do think it's good. I do feel like young bands should have to go. Do it because the way like how it prepares you to do you know the cars you make. Bands get up, no soundcheck, no, nothing! You gotta throw your gear on the stage in like five or ten minutes right and and play, and you know a million degrees and everyone's wasted and yeah? So, but I do think it's good. I you know when I see like young bands doing, I feel like yeah you should. This is good for you. Well the thing that was interesting about a day for me was that you know I like craig and I like the whole steady and their sort of specific in my mind, but their specifically kind of of a tradition of a kind of american story, yeah you know, and but like buddy, I can get

be thoughtful and in a very deep guy in a lot of ways craig is yeah. I love his lyric. Yet, unlike out just surprising, guess it's not unusual, because you know Nirvana wrote a song about it that the odds was primarily male. Seemingly bro wish in in their behaviour. and like him when you guys came on, you did well with them. They're definitely rock people, but I it struck me that the both of you guys are or have a sensitivity, and I would say, not an aversion to that type of dude. You are at at odds with them on some level. First sure, and we had done like a couple, the wholesalers,

fans were like their first two are they opened for us and then, like a year and a half later, we were opening for them because they took off, they started doing really well, but they were like old guys, yeah right. They had already gone through. You know he did lifter puller for years and like yeah, and I mean now those okay with us like them, yeah like as people very much let their band but yeah we their audience. You know it look like sports game. Vienna lie, you know, because it had that one bigs them. Big song was very much like wrong. Seen in in a lot of this idea. I remember we played like a show on Saint Patrick, say, opening them in colombia. I, oh yeah. Why and it was it looked like a rat party right so did. Did that cause you any trouble. No put. There is just a lot. You know you can't choose your audience and the thing

like Mccain! If your specific enough to alienate the guy alienate, don't audio right yea, I really small, you get exactly the people you are having their lot of audiences that you don't I mean that was like that competitive on a he in a trick coming hated alot of his audience cause. He just saw them as the jocks picked on him in high school year. For you, I I but that's the worst thing about music in general and yes, sort of coming back around to what we are talking about a little bit in india. In the living room. Is that in you know, if you're are they hearing you, you know like. Are they processing? You know your feelings about power eggs or religion or about you. You know the dark poetry of of of any of music, or are they just sort of like rocking out, and is it it? It doesn't matter on some will. It should be? Ok, they're just rocking out it's not a minimal. Think there there's like an obligation for the fair,

and you have you not understand it if they are not lay out a test. After we now know. If you want to them, I mean you really need them to get every lyric, maybe turned the lyrics up yeah, you know that would think that's more on the music. And while a weird like that anyway, because I don't dumb like I'm- not a huge lyric guy, immature you mean. I am with my own right when I'm writing right, but sometimes I think, like our man, I'll alike, list, like so my favorite songs, and then I don't really know what they're out of what their singled out. I think I'll go back to you, know nirvana or like like the pixies, where a lot of songs, I love? That's all. I have no idea what he or the cure even laugh, there's a lot of things. I just don't know what you're talking about it and that's it hey, knowing allowed it's about a feeling sure, but I guess that's great yeah, but you hear it like. I guess I just hear the vocals as another instrument like I'm not trying to be like You know like really relish the poetry of the thing right right now, that's a good way to put it

and I feel like I'm doing a disservice alike. Even today, when I was listening to the to the new, to your new record, I put it on and I'm like man. Maybe I should just see what he's saying you know. I guess I should do I gotta get going above the talked to hurting. I should see what you say so like I I. What was the what's the song on their code? No, into the car into the couch reich. Jimmy, like I read that my oh I get, this is about everything becoming digital cause. That's Close enough right or that's not what I mean Well, even if, like you read all the lyrics to a lot of the songs that they don't spell it out, for you I mean that's. Why, of course, that's why they're that's why they're poachers? Why it's a song? That's like a luxury of writing posts. Problems are lyrics because it doesn't have to make that gdp is an evil vague. As you want to sound cool, the vague re, better, sometimes yeah yeah I mean, if you will get some of wagner vanished up. Is it just right were what the railways from the voice of his generation and you like what

What are we doing about yeah? But then it's just like the feeling you know like I love bagasse and I know there are thinking about important stuff, but a lot, and I don't know what it sounds very important, ok, and they mean business right approaching this seriously right and I'm also like such a night, I'm nodded at a dumb old guy sorry, but I really don't know what I was doing musically for a couple of decades, so I ever things new to me. Like you, I swear to god I might have known one forgot pisan in a high two years ago and then, like I started, I bought the real issues of the vinyl so I gather and amazing band. They did a lot of stuff, but I didn't know nothing about it, but isn't that so exciting? Yes, then, like you, I would think it would be way worse to think I've heard it all, but I do that with a lot of stuff now, so you you grown up in in cooper team well, yeah, and then what do you end up in san francisco? Where, where do you start the music like? What did you do? Did you go to college

I didn't go to college so that must have free your parents yeah. That was the worst possible thing cause my dad had gone too far. Cumbia and will like yeah? It was very what was engineer or what yeah yeah yeah yeah. So my parents were not happy about that yeah. I just started playing in bands and just started touring. So when I was probably like eighteen or nineteen, when you start playing guitar, I was fifteen. I wrote that kinda of late. Now I dunno what I dunno I I guess I was given one at eleven and I reluctantly played I had. Why was like my dad, tried to teach me piano when I was a kid hated it and then got me a saxophone. It was the eighties in practice, yeah yeah and then so then finally guitar at fifteen. What kind of an epiphone yeah yeah Is it not? I was electric with electric copier gibson and before now, if I was just it would just really cheap india,

That was and then you know never mind. Nirvana came out the next year, so that was perfect from because I was like intellects of like guns and roses unless zepplin south south, that was learned. We are right and this is not so easy. These so have abandoned or via came out, and then that was I really ino everyone. I knew you could hear they got our right of a right and it was just cords. It wasn't the we It is our answer broken up. They were new, delaying it wasn't overproduced bright right. You can just here like I can hear him playing. I should be able to play that yeah. I mean that's whole my generation of guitar player and I feel like his that record. Oh, I could do that. You know yeah yeah yeah, the the the the sort of you know, noodling nerds yeah, the people that could do a by then Helen. That was the last generation yet

it wasn't cool at all. Just let me know that wasn't cool anymore after the whoever here yeah I used it. There's a timer were guitar geeks would sit there and just watch a guide new there's still there there still out there yeah, but then it became yo tone thing and at you know just to yell loud thing and have like I dunno simplicity. I guess I guess that came after, like punk rock sorted did that be ever listened to like old, were you know, punk rock, like not not punk rock the generation after the sex pistols like that congress is becoming a sort of umbrella phrase for anything different awry. If he was in his ex pistols, is not that menacing Actually, not even that fast know. If it's like the same way go back to those early, Alice, cooper, record yeah. Those were like so scary at the time, and they are not there really cool thou but yeah yeah that sex pistols record. It doesn't seem like it's illegal. his eyes were tough yeah yeah. It's like a rock and roll, exactly it's

like I don't know when the the drumming started to happen. then he can remain at some point in hot rod. Yeah began to be defined by these ma. monster drama right? Will everything gets more muscle? You, like, I guess you know, like new highly. Where do you go from irruption vanilla until eight people are Joe Satriani, always your top there's that are just taken too far and fallen asleep here in their names right? Yes, just like to recall that concentrate only on like that. ex, I ask that we get it to some extent that so then same with punk. You know hard core in the eight years. You know those closest starts getting just about being tough and then like. I mean a lot of that crazy drumming think come from actually. So how could you have the right answer on fat records like getting all these basic, really tightening yea yang, it's kind of its kind of jockey. in that way. It is weird if there is an alpha element to it. That is true, and I really thought about when you really think about rawlins when he took when he's became the front guy for for black flag.

Very like while this guy's punk rock, but I'm nervous right now neck. I love rawlins, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, great character, he's very earnest, mother, fucker, yeah, yeah I heard you in her view, Amy eyes. Very these very syria he'll talk right now you get. You know you eventually, you know the trick. The interviewing rawlins is getting him to stop at times. Gain represents around yeah yeah. I know you've got the. I know you know where you're going to say, but I just want to be like a viral governor it's all a monologue, we're good. yeah yeah. I mean I used to listen to his spoken word records in highschool. I worked with him for a couple of weeks me him and grandpa did some dates, and initially it was like. Let's just pull straws and he's going to go last and I might want It's where Henry go out and write. You don't want to follow two hours and talk yeah. He care they're a really long days or twelve right. So so, when you get to, where do you start playing in bands

around san francisco yeah in San jose, but before we get there because, like I listened to you guys and like you know, for some reason, like bands like some of the the austin bands really kind of mine from when I was in college, which are what what for some reason: night there were zalm, there's a feeling too That was more punk rock. In this kind of like you're, like a fire hose or yet more apparently right, more experimental bands right, like growing muses for some reason for an under our yeah yeah, because bans that we're like I mean what is that. I think that, as we like college rock, that's really labelling and always was are wary wave of independent music when run still relatively small. I think market share for selling records by the eight defined a type of radio. I mean, I think, I'd like pavement and the breeders exactly yeah that era right there. Clearly, I'm not like a punk, because we were never. You know. I never have like a leather jacket with studs, but it was.

It was that way it was. It was not, but it wasn't my college rock in the sense where you you know, it seems to me that define that error I was r e, so there was it of rock music. That was not really pawnbroker necessarily hard, but not mainstream into became mainstream right, that a while for area but an paradise edited. When I was in college, it was like the pixies were common on yeah, going muses. I love because they were local and belly. Yeah. The writers ya, like that there is a bunch of bans around Boston, I'm trying to think of some of the other, wise or junior sure yeah yeah, so that was harder. You know we feel like that first

we wave I dunno when rpm happened, but they were like the alt music, but then there was all these other band. Sonic youth was a little older too, though yeah yeah, so that stuff was poor in india first year, because that's like the last you know all these bands were mentioning all played like those early lollapalooza tours, which for me is like sophomore and junior senior year of highschool, really seeing, like all seemed like dinosaur, jr breeders, sonic, youth, hole, smashing pumpkins, that's all one lollapalooza right, yeah, hull and smashing pumpkin right. So when do you start? What's the first band, I started a band called bunch of losers that had it been called Zephaniah. This is when I'm fifteen and sixteen these are like bands that mostly just played like at our high school, like there'll, be shows like in the quad and like in who are your heroes? Where do you point the point originals or covers that covers we did a ministry cover yeah, that's! So what then we're just it's funny, because we were like like nirvana

pearl jam and, like all the big grunge bans or the bands, were listening to right then, but then, like really in. Like there were a lot of bands like if funk thrash was what was huge. I can san jose and oakland and we go to shows in oakland berkeley and, like those has been called nuclear rabbit and like no one. You know right, we would cover like like other, like local band songs, we played the song was yeah. What world is that? Give me a leg, primus or chili, pepper, yeah, yeah. Definitely, chili peppers are in there too yeah. We love the fish bone yeah for sure we loved fishbone fishbone all the time that first fishbone was huh, yeah yeah, that's great and the truth and soul. That's another yeah. We actually got to play. We played this festival in france a couple of years ago. The expos played and got to meet them, and oh really yeah. That was, I think there. Those guys are like really he's back at it,

I mean like it's like two, it's like Angelo and nor what I think of the original members, but the other with different rates. Angela, oh yeah or yeah yeah yeah generally get documentary about them and about him and he's like in l a like living at us I'm south its fascinating though it is the air he ok. I think so. I guess it's ok. You can be yeah, but ok, so that is so. That was compelling is you're doing some of that drive the o java drummer, sir. Those guys over. The nose first do bans in high school or you are any of those by responded there to cover their birthday MIKE Mike Stewart. I haven't heard from him in awhile might butler who played a much illiteracy. He just moved to portland alot of of people. I've kept like really close touch with an you know. The whole portland thing is everyone from California. Moves are so well you kind of people. I grew

with live in portland. Now I want to. I want to hear that evolution. So you do the high school bands and when do you put together when do you meet? Ah yeah. Can I start playing together in like ninety six that we toward around for a couple years, and then we move to portland and ninety eight, and so we had a ban called hail. we have to meet and your romantically involved not for a couple years. We met, we play it whether for a couple of years dated for a couple of years and then broke up and then just kept playing because everyone or most people I had met most musicians, I knew were so flaky was so hard to sure keep a band together. That's why I did the first thermals record alone, because it was just easier to just learn how to play everything and just do it as opposed to trying to keep a band together. Did you move to san francisco, though? Before did you live in San fran,

Good, all known, I've never lived there, so you're just up and cooper tina right playing music and then, when you may at the how'd, you me cathy and cooper ton. Ok, I met caveat shoreline. Amphitheatre shoreline was where all like all the concert and to impose our time patty they are yardsticks. Tom parry Helen guns roses by We met and saw them on their first tour like guns, or it wasn't the first one. It was like one of the last one before it all like philip, with all the original guys right yeah, except for the drummer. Oh yeah, it was great. I mean guns. Roses were like one of my favorite bands like in high school yeah. It was great I saw a top heavy on the wild flowers sewer there, and that was that our great so so he so good ass, so god but yield grateful dead replay there at least

you're so, and we would ideally I won T. I went to one dead so there, but we just go to the parking lot right to get drugs and that's how I met cathy clause can be used in the parking lot than her friend was selling like gone to goo balls yeah, and it was just like before. That was before edibles like the weird sorted out early, edible, yet homemade edibles right yeah, it's just like the chocolate ball nose like raisins, maybe there's some chop lay. I like you shoot the ball. Yeah yeah. It wasn't like fun to eat the fact that you know go get like a nitrous balloon. Guy just has a volkswagon clearance, just selling balloons ever so. Yes, a lot of times. You know you just go and hang out in the parking lot, where your deadpan not really My sister was a vague Denzil. Eventually I did. I went to a show with her, and that was like right, that's probably just like half a year or so before, jerry garcia died. So one of the last shows there you're pretty fun. It was interesting.

for me, I had a friend that area into at the show, and she was just like a closet dead. How to actually known and I'll have you would know she was very very into them, and she was one of these people whose, on having any fun at the show there just like she would catalogues you just like keeping track. If every song that was taking note right right, the whole show archive is one of the many dead, so many yeah. So it seemed like work for who's. Interesting. We took mushrooms, it wasn't. You know it's not like one of those people that hates the dead, but I never like that in yeah, so you meet her in the parking lot. Getting gonzo balls going to goo balls conjugal biology. Ass, though that's how we met and then you had a land she's, a drummer and Cathy's actually play drums on a couple. Thermals records, she's great grammar, We, like the first man I play in with coffee, was called hail and she played drums and up and that's that

third band, her forefinger yeah yeah, probably like the third or fourth. I think I have a hutches Cathy record. Oh right, ass! Oh yes, oh that's from two thousand to that's like right. Before we do the thermals we did that record. It was like I just the two as yet I was just something we can adjust pieced together. We both have like a track real machines at our houses. We do some mind, summit, hers and then just kind of- yeah? That was already you together, then we worked now. Lotta it is about us breaking up and like about you have already been broken up, so they did. It start musically, because romantic and then you break up right. He remained friends right, yeah guy, can't like that raising that you there was no sort of distance in that like. If I'm friends would acts like years later, and it's more like hey, do. Ok, yeah I'm friends with all my access or most of em and allow We have relatively nice guy, I'm all right, we are. Obviously they weren't, like I gotta, get away from now and now and with kathy,

it wasn't, even that much of a break between us break the zero gobble. Well, we got a practice tomorrow, so is the one that's gets was built on some sort of other type of bond all year. cause that we like working together on music, and I have never like really had that with anyone else like this person. You know you both understand each other and trust each other yeah, that's sweet yeah, so you're playing will tell me about the move to portland because, like that's early on, really am right, and so is what what drove that. okay, so we, this is like we were like we gotta get out of san jose, there's no scene that was kind of a punk scene, but it was, you know it kind of died and we would love to live in San francisco, but san francisco was already so expensive. We couldn't just couldn't afford to live there and Cathy had gone to fashion design school in san francisco and we really wanted to, but yeah just couldn't afford it. I'm sure like listening to the east coast, so we had a

We're gonna move to fully. We did like this to her. We ended up like outside of philly the guy we're, gonna live with, is terrible, it all fell apart. We ended up in maine in portland, maim for like seven or eight months, because we had guy really horrible there. I will end with the others We were gonna live with we're like this in fairly just not going to work here. Billy of our place, riots fairly analogy idea. It's really couldn't I do know, is known for its music. Seen punk seen it's funny because I'd like the scene there right now, Is really cool but yeah I'll know what was going. You know a lot of just like the psychedelic stuff was going on right anyway, not that we would fit in with that either we are so we end up. We had good friends in in portland main we ended up just living, does one kind of like stone, enter in portland main and then yeah and then like spring and ninety seven. We move We got it. You know what I want to go back to california, but portland. We knew p, oh yeah, portland, Oregon. We knew people that live there and catherine. I had been there

like entourage or just like to visit and when you, those really cheap, but music scene was already kind of cool. It just seemed like like who is that idea in the music? So that's like elliott, smith is still living there. Sleet or kenny had just kind of like moved there after being split between like olympia and portland, and there was a you know. There was just like a lot of like small punk bands, and that was just like a lot of er, like a few like just small like all ages like hole in the wall, type venues right and just a lot of good like how shows you know we were like twenty one. We moved there, so there was just like it. Hadn't blown up or hadn't become what it is right or not at all, not at all beaten city. In a way it was just kind of weird and dark yeah right yeah. It was kind of creepy score and so you did there in that point. You move there and when do you do the first record? So were there

for a while before you know, we do haleigh for a couple of years kathy and I record the hutch and kathy record, and then I like in two thousand and two just at my house. I recorded that first, moles record without how come without her. I was just like set up when it wasn't a banned. It wasn't like any things. It was the project I was doing at my house yeah. I would just I come home from work and just like write these songs, so it was like it was just like I'm going to do this yeah. You know just because yeah cause I like to record right. And and then you play for her and he go, we got a tour this giant. It was something where, like immediate, like any one, have played a foregone really excited about it. It was just you know: it's the recording is legal. Our than low fire, you know it's like just a really kind of crazy crappy recording, but sounds cool like the energy was really call anyone. I played it for I really liked it and

like when capping. I were on the hudson cathy tour like you, only when we have already made to just. We would just the two of us like a corolla. It was like just playing just tiny shows to almost no one, which is wicked, tat? A lot of our two hours had van like up until that point is addressed, what we knew as tour. We looked at ourselves and and right, but you just accept that are. Is that heartbreaking unaware, no you just that we have the feeling, like things, we're gonna get better here if we just keep doing right cause. This is this is the way wait out this. Everyone has to do that. Right. Yeah and I know Well, you know we were still yet. We were like twenty three or twenty four. We were doing that so yeah, so we didn't feel you know. We just felt like we're. Moving in the right, direct so so, how do you like the the first record, is on a smaller label? Your ear the one hundred and kathy record yeah yeah. It was more parts per million. That's on sub pop. It is yeah yeah. So how does that happen? Okay, so so we

little band together of just like friends of ours, like catherine, our friends at the sky, Jordan, who is living with us and he was playing. he played drums and then our friend Ben Barnett and played guitar, and then I just sang Ben Barnett introduced us to Ben gibberish who's from death cab for cutie year and was doing the postal service record with sub pop and so We gave it to you to give it to ban gibbered and then Ben gibbered gave it to support the record that you made your sat right, you're right, and so when captain our on too

Just we got an email from sub pop that it all happened really quickly so quickly that I didn't really like. I thought someone was pranking us at first. I thought I don't think rise like actually someone from sub pop yeah yeah that wants to put out the record but yeah. So they were like hey. Do you wanna come yeah kathy and I were on tour and thermals hadn't. Even we aren't even practice. There was no band. That was just that, recording that you want to come play in seattle, and so we're like sure we gotta you know, give us a couple months, cause we're on tour and Now we can tell him, but we really would like there's no band and let us just make the ban that you want to sign first, but that was you know yeah, and I was after so many years. If sending cds to sub pop all these labels, who wanted to be on and never hearing anything back and then here was this thing that we had made that we had like given to a couple people but hadn't like sent to

labels, but thou art works. It's an inside job right to they just round the things you send on a pile of YAP, and maybe I like, I get records all the time from people and its very odd that like why? Why do I like lock into one like all, usually give them all listen, but it's so rare, you put one on any go like what with what's going there. Some yeah there's something here yet has happened the other day with some weird record, from think maple leafs record. Aha, there. I remember I'll, show you the record but like all like that so that Gaia, nathan from rivulets. You think these people semi wreck I'll put it out, and maybe the other wreckers resonate with other people by each. Is it such a crapshoot, Oh yeah, definite like it has to be a guy looking at a box, a shit that you know that that's come in to sub pop and just be like, maybe of growth.

The epa than that try this year should be looked so lucky just to get oh, yes, right, yeah, it's when it's not anyone's fault. We because I think, when you have hopes dreams and you're the guy sitting at home in your living room with your eight track and put this witnessing together. It's all about you, but I don't you really don't want to think that it is going to go down equally from your hands into a box of other things. It looking we like you right, you want to think there's some process where the guy how this one year earlier? That's up to you. I mean you know. The rule is supposed to be, like you put the greatest put the best song first, because most people aren't going to make My ass, the right aren't yea. Did you do that now? If you you know, you are and that's what a lot of bands are. You send them the whole record and I'm going to put the the debate. You know there's the ro song. Then does it. You know- and you know the best almost like the fourth or fifth sarama yan. They don't care,

there's during their drowning yeah. Now let me that you like, right there to be a ages and it's weird how these things work, as are like. Occasionally there If the story were like, I you know, a friend of mine got a lot of unsolicited stuff and he was you know he was really just working for the manager of the cure. Now in the empty building in in new york? But. was getting your unsolicited stuff and he throw it on occasion when you just found this one thing that you became this huge, where he just felt that it was a hit- and he made this thing a hit from this demo that somebody sent it was a one hit thing, but it sort of established him as a guy who can find music right yeah. The initial hope that that guy gets it yeah here, but the musical my like that, but you you're not at that time. There was still a sort of your time.

Tile music that yeah yeah. No, I always say that, because we, you know the first couple of records we did. There were still like eight by ten glossies yeah. You would actually send out a cd with a paper press release and then by the third record, it's all digital. You know the when we got and the labels were still trying to figure out like how do we not you know? How do we not get this leaked or get this stolen? Unlike pearl jam's label, I think it was epic or columbia was doing. They were sending cd like disc mans out to with we're glued shut, yeah yeah and then we like well anyone that wants did they just run a cable to whatever yeah yeah. Well, we'll still be able to figure it out, but yeah, but all that

if you like? It all happened so quick right for you all your records are on vinyl in there. Then you put out you put thought into the artwork. I was like oh cool, thanks yeah. I do that or I do that or we we collaborate on that, but most of those yeah yeah. It's like these montage cause like cutting thing, yeah, yeah yeahs. You want them to all. I like, when you lay out all the records together and they all kind of an archer or this guy's got a style on the cover too yeah and you kinda want it to match the music too. It's kind of this scrappy, yeah yeah imperfect it does it. Definitely it does match it, so all right so giver gets And then you put together the boy you put a couple of months ago to teach you how to play the songs exact made yet again, and then what happens you play for some time after supper? They, like it a lot one is that we should do that. It was a thing we're like there was this,

yahoo in the main room, and we just it was just like a little cafe attached and we just played on the floor in the cafe and for a small audience of yeah yeah, for mostly just people that worked at sub pop and then went active pressure thing yeah right, because this was like I mean there was we're always trying you know, sending our stuff out to all these labels but sub. op was like the one yeah for us, yet for sure meant something right, yeah well, just like so many of our favorite bands like fluency nirvana, the first like the grunge ones like nirvana and mud honey, but then, like bands, like Eric's trip and just you know, just kind of the weirder cf sabotage. Oh yeah yeah, just like yes, so many different yeah, so indifferent bans are you weighing the. U, I support the idea of lies and by allowing ultimate like there was no way for employees. I knew about barghouti, I really wanted and that you know through into the office next day, and they and also you know they had just the shins recorded, come out. Support was kind of having like

rewrites yeah and either you know Jonathan parliament, he attributed to the gens the additions, content record, Oh yeah, that's great regiment was into one of the song. Yesterday, I've lost my apple yeah yeah yeah rock man drive to fund the other it's one of those bands at like they were like a little weird and then I feel like a lot of bans that become a kind of became with the new sub pops out yet was he's bound to Iraq, but it was a little soft and been pretty but different. What sub pop had been doing right up until then yeah yeah, they kind of reinvented the dsl you've played the show and they're like okay, great yeah, but they didn't record they. They just released the record. You may right and they did want us to re recorded a we didn't want to. You know they wanted to put his back in the studio. and like make. It sounds that re by living room record right to me, it sounded like you know, like Eric stripper elevator to Hallo is like a lot You know the lyrics

The the records that have inspired the s record are sub records and eight ino, the recordings garbage, and I want mine- you know yet yazzi either it think the special yeah I crap irregular and supper, and they let you yeah. They did. They were yea in every label. We ve been honest and really good about letting go. That's whatever right, but that's it same thing to me that you know what what happened? z, E. You know what I mean like, like so you're on your you're on sub pop, your first album that you actually record with them you're produced by a big producer for them. Yeah yeah chris Walla, and you know he didn't like you- know all the death cab for cutie rights, and so that's it that's that's. That's a will. Juice right did. I definitely do not at all. You have to be received right and so then, like someone like death camps has helped us out. So much has been helped us get signed than chris mix that first

and produce a second one, and then they took the remit who were accord yeah yeah, so it at me didn't make it it did make it sound any better. Original met. Unum is always so far. Learn so much you can do what I guess for this generation crises oh yeah yeah, and he said like December s and Tegan and sara yeah this stuff that chris yeah Chris always has interesting stories. He said like steely dan called them up and it wasn't even to produce a record. They just wanted him to like come out and hang he just went and like. out with steely, damn sure sure let give it a relevant right, yeah right need a guy that could make us hip for the kids right. So he does that this fuckin a record right, yeah and that's all you did. That is which is that considered a full record, yeah yeah, it's I mean all our records short, it's you know it's like twenty five minutes. That's not all our world we live in. Aren't you supposed to dump everything you ve ever done?

into each of you, I dunno you could do that. I mean you're, a punk bands that all the songs are really sure yeah I mean I never complain. If I'm listening to a record, sure you need a lot of europe. We need these last four years, and why is the last song always like eight minutes in a jam or it's just because they could yeah. I mean it's like. I guess it's more bang for the buck. I guess on some level, if someone looks at a cd or digital download or a though I share on here right and then they realize right, there's a lot of shit on there yeah you don't want someone to like love the first half of your record and by you know it's good to keep it, keep them watered more right or the one white and do more than just start the record over again. If you gonna having a yearly list That's what it is. We majority it doesn't do time to do it twice, just where to go and you're like. Is it that we hear this again? It is due here this already yeah, so the first time you listen to it, and so you sort of define your sarkozy sound of more parts familiar,

and then moving into you. Definitely I think if you like, you got like bigger and productions. Right Your fuller and unity it sounded like a band that can its own tone yacht in its own style, and so you stay on sub path through why diario energy? I am so that's the third record and now what what happens- and that makes you switch labels to tat is it like is sub pop, I guess it and take off your like. Maybe we're no and summarize it really well and they they offered us another contract for, like a fourth and fifth record that I I wish you would have taken so that the gene, your your political, angry record, yeah that, unlike did the best year us that one still does like because now is that we have like the tenth anniversary of the universal reissued with us. Those like cell way, better, who see. Do you have a good foul, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure

The thing was we decided like after the record that we wanted to own all the masters for our record business yeah, and so that just wasn't an option at sub pop to do that so, and we knew there were a lot of other labels where that was an option so that, but that sort of adapting to you, the the pay model that sort it evolved. Ass. You guys evolved is adequately now. If you got your publishing and you ve got your masters, you know that means you have access to make as much money is. possible for as long as you're alive if real right and even after you're dead. If it's really good. Well, that's funny! You say that because that's how I started thinking about it, I was like one day: everyone at sub pop was going to be dead and I'm going to be dead too, and it's either going to be their kids owning my record or my kids

neither of which exist, but, unlike owl you know, I would. I want my kids to own the records as opposed to someone, but you had a publishing right right and it's such a weird thing cause now. You know now. We own all our masters for the labels event on since apart, but then we still just keep re. We can we keep licensing them. ina, realizing them to the label europe. So I kind of go. You know it's one of those things that maybe like it makes us feel good. Aye, but yellow embers area, not a huge, is not as big as I thought. It was back there so when they leave sub pap yo too, oh two into care. Rock stars are that's a big that's about I agree and they had just move to portland from olympia via their great. They do who were there big acts, so big

when he kill smith they did the early december's records, while the gossip- and you know they do comedy records now he did Karen Esposito in Carmel. There's a bird in here, oh cool, not really does that. I just want him to find his way out. Is that happened before? No? Oh, don't hurt other ellard, oh boy, shit. We were seated by the window. There has never happened before he's, trying to get out that way. You're not going to get some awesome as you go coco. That gave me a in a rush. Hours was exciting. We don't want fucking break their wing on the window, where I you know bugs, do it to the dead birds come for the cat food. Now and apparently they you're, the one

shared it with the entire bird can be right and one boa cathode out their salvo killers stars in carmel Portland zone. So that makes sense. So now do you feel there is a difference. I imagine in promotion urging the main difference is that at sub pop everyone is in house, everything you know they how someone doing lines ain't right. All you know press everything, whereas, like a label like Iraq's larger saddle, creek that we're on now you just higher out for all that stuff. So in a lot of ways, it's not that different! It's come out your pocket either it is yea. It is with the wit. You know you can make decisions like. spend a lot of money on a publicist rights so that that was a difference in moving to co rock stars and doing like you know you on the masters in its and even

Let us put the profits and yes, so you are. I mean it's kind of more work in that way. Can yak as europe and choose a publicist and choosing how much money to spend an The two records with them. We did two with comes back to produce christie, personal life yeah. We I don't know if you know John congleton and he's produced a lot of heat he's produced like St Vincent, an ally, gray, ready they wanted. Now we can see hide of kurds ray. I rock stars, yeah, we'll brendan candy from for Gaza. He produced the body that led the machine that was right, you that was like major reactor. That's a big record! That's your big rock yeah yeah yeah like that's, where I got the other. When I got desperate ground from ignacio rights, who we just

yeah, I'm already having I interviewed the as yet. Some pastor me to interview acknowledge a really guy yeah he's right. Yes done! A oh yeah! Yeah he's done a lot! I mean he did those hold steady records that got them bag and right. Yeah, he's yeah, he's ton of great. Did you like this? did I one oh yeah like I and he had worked on that apps record the kim deal dead. Yeah he's done all those dinosaur junior record yeah. He was some one who I like heard about for so long, and I just found him on facebook. I saw he was like friends with JANET weiss from cedar kenny on facebook Nels. I asked her as a haiti think like he would prove our records. I should just ask

I just wrote to him on facebook and say: oh yeah, I'd love to yeah. He great. What do you bring to it? Here's! What's your! What's your collaboration with these guys, do you give them just you trust them implicitly? Or do you sit there in the booth and we don't there's never like a ton of like you know we demo, but there's like not a lot. You know you just talked to someone and kind of just feel him out and John. I mean a lot of times. It's just like. Do you like what done in the past. I think they could do that for you, like John, we want someone who's going to just kind of be open to whatever we want to do, and the thing with John, as we wanted to make a record that sounded kind of like scratchy and hello, five, do it in a studio rang it properly, but still have it kind of bee.

you know. Raw writers have a kind of be messy, and so he was really you know. I. I brought that crappy microphone in for track their recorded. The first record with I wanted to bring those to the studio and just do that same set up and have like distorted vocals and have it through kind of this cheap setup, but go to like an expensive machine right, which is what and he was totally down with that, and he did it right yeah. That's that, so that's what we did for their record, sir. Now, okay hold on Like because, like I know like you get like, it seems to me that the last ray records. I mean they're, not their different, but their debt. You ve doubling our signature, sound now right, right and you're not trying to break away from that. I mean I always light. I like think of a cd seal out. You know

Every ac dc record sounds the same. Like being all it's all like you. If you get a good sound, you know it's hard because like if you makes a record it's kind of different people, will they don't like the new people will fault you for either in the same or for change so you're happy that you found your sound yo yeah and be like this is one of the most important things you can do is just like buying something that makes you recognizable yeah and yeah, and I like to be consistent year too. So there I was there, so I got the new record. I guess you guys sent it to him. Somebody sent it to me right what labels at now, it's on saddle creek, so that had in the past couple of racks like this in the last desperate ground, yes, was on, saddle creek and is widely believed, kill rock stars. that was just a big up, a kill rock stars and most of the people we worked with, had been fired or had left and, and it just seemed I mean we're on good terms of them. It just seemed like time.

And who saddle creek where this outbreak create? Their number has the bright eighty bright, bright eyes. Oh, you know yahoo conor in here, so we had just known them. We knew carter and bright eyes like a lot of their bans for a long time and just, and we knew the guys that, on the way now in my god, magellan gather awesome their great and their out here. You know the labels basin omaha, but rob who owns the label he's base in l a and the new record, which is good, Now, when you see it a difference between light the last the evelyn sure of what's evolving if it's not necessarily the sound. What evolves the song writing is evolved. I feel like I work like you know. It has been a couple of years since we made a record, so I feel, like I worked hardest, on yeah, just doesn't really matter having I noriega and just yet and now

I feel you know a lot of times. You know you're, making a record you're writing a bunch of songs all at once. He kind of set a deadline, whereas this record we just kind of wrote. I just kind of wrote for a couple of years it was no. There was no pressure to make a record yeah totally well. Well, great, I'm glad it's a good read! Thank you! I'm a fan! Thank you! Do you want to. song? Yes I'll make interests. Do that I'm always impressive. You guys just sort of like you know one, little nervous, I'm a little nervous, how bout me, but you sing, you do you're, just do it, but you know you can't let being nervous stapi outlets. That's true! Do this, you know. Hopefully it just doesn't become your thing. That's a nervous guy. You know that you know

far run your voice damage drain, me. So my love a man of bone. Many more powerful voice.

the differences between us Voting time

when I needed the nice bagshot awesome thanks my great time. You're right go, get some form of music go get Burma's vinyl whatever you want. Also don't forget, we ve now here this festival with my producer, Brenda mcdonald, that's october, twenty eight through If an anaheim will be doing a special w e f show on Saturday october, twenty nine

but there are more than thirty of your favorite pie guests all weekend go to now here this best I've got to get tickets and see the full line up. and use the africa deputy up when you buy tickets to save twenty percent general admission. That's now here this best dot com offer code, w p s right our I have a good week s homer yeah,